Re: [Re: [Re: [[Repeater-Builder] Ever so slightly off topic ...Channel Elementinfo ...]]]

2003-12-20 Thread Neil McKie

  Hello John and others too ... 

JOHN MACKEY wrote:
 
 Neil McKie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I still have one here - is a T1411A  Mark XII which is a 12 Freq
   carrier squelch, duplex radio.
 SNIP
 Expected receiver sensitivity is 0.7 uv
 SNIP  

  That's what the manual says ...  ;) 

 
 I sold my last Mark XII/T44MSN/T1411/etc at the Rickreal ham swap 
 meet several years ago.  I had a lot of trouble getting the receivers 
 to meet spec,  usually had to settle for about 1.0 uV.  That was 
 typical of receivers in mobile telephone service, which usually were 
 listening to very strong (possibly simulcast) transmitters.  In 
 typical land mobile, such receiver sensitivity was usually 
 unacceptable in a quality system. 

  True ... 

 
 I think, in that era of equipment, a person who wanted to be duplex 
 would have been FAR better off to use a Motrac or Mastr Pro  modify 
 it for full duplex operation with seperate antennas.  (Which is what 
 you did, Neil - I saw both your radios!)  

  Although those radios are now out of service, I still have them.  One 
 is a GE Mastr Pro with four freq and duplexed ... the other is a UHF 
 Motrac U64MHT - also four freq and duplexed. 

 
 The other problem with those radios, was the transmit PA.  It was a 
 MSN 45 watt 150 MHz transmitter 

  Actually a 30 watt tranmsmitter - I used to service them ... 


 with a varacter tripler on the final output. 

  Yup.  Sometimes a real squirrel to tune ... but that was part of the 
 fun. 


 Not very efficient  slightly tricky to tune!! Also, the tuning of 
 the varactor was (of course) a capacitor  a metalic tuning tool 
 was basically needed for the necessary strength required to turn 
 that capacitor.  If you happen to accidentially short across the 
 capacitor plates with your tuning tool, you would blow the varactor 
 diode. 

  Sounds like you had the wrong Motorola tuning tool ... :( 


 Last time I checked probably 10 years ago, the cost of that diode was 
 about $145 dollars using my discounted pricing at Motorola 
 
 Rather than buy a new diode, I waited until the next Dayton Hamvention 
 where I bought a whole identical radio for about $10 or $20.  That 
 night K7LJ  I pulled out the varactor stage  trashed the rest of the 
 radio.  

  Trashed the rest of the radio - that's too bad ... 

 
 The only other thing good in those readios was that they had a tunable
 harmonic filter which worked well for using as a front end filter on 
 frequency agile radios.  Example: a 440 MHz remote base to cover a 10 
 MHz operating range but filter out signals on other bands or more than 
 20 Mhz away.  

  Yup ... 

  Neil - WA6KLA 


 
 
 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] TS-64

2003-12-20 Thread Virden Clark Beckman
This is defeatable, I have described this several times - instead of
turning off the tone generator thereby activating the reverse burst just
use a hold low in between 2 15K resistors to pinch the pl output of the
ts64 module going towards the modulator. To use this you will have to
hold the orange wire low full time, and you will find the switching time
is faster than the reverse burst.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Hi Guys,
 
 We've discovered something interesting about the TS-64 CTCSS module.
 
 The encoder portion has a built-in reverse burst feature which is not
 defeatable. Problem is, the reverse burst lasts about 150 mS, which is
 long enough for the decoder on the other end to start decoding again.
 This caused some interesting problems for one of our customers with a
 linking system.
 
 Apparently, the reed decoders do real well with reverse burst times of
 150-160 mS, but that's too long for solid-state decoders.
 
 Anyone have similar experiences?
 
 73,
 Bob, WA9FBO
 EE, S-COM, LLC
 
 ---
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] TS-64

2003-12-20 Thread Chuck Kelsey
Why don't you write it up in some detail and submit to Kevin for posting on
the Repeater-Builder web site?

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: Virden Clark Beckman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2003 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] TS-64


 This is defeatable, I have described this several times - instead of
 turning off the tone generator thereby activating the reverse burst just
 use a hold low in between 2 15K resistors to pinch the pl output of the
 ts64 module going towards the modulator. To use this you will have to
 hold the orange wire low full time, and you will find the switching time
 is faster than the reverse burst.







 

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Re: [Re: [Re: [Re: [[Repeater-Builder] Ever so slightly off topic ...Channel Elementinfo ...]]]]

2003-12-20 Thread JOHN MACKEY
Neil McKie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  that capacitor.  If you happen to accidentially short across the 
  capacitor plates with your tuning tool, you would blow the varactor 
  diode. 
 
   Sounds like you had the wrong Motorola tuning tool ... :( 

The problem was that what motorola directed as the correct tuning tool was
usually not strong enough to do the job.  So then you had to use a metal
tipped tool  be very careful.


http://www.siouxcityjournal.com/articles/2003/12/20/obituaries/local/6e63a3a2ea23577286256e02001eeb51.txt





 

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Re: [Re: [Re: [Re: [Re: [[Repeater-Builder] Ever so slightly off topic ...Channel Elementinfo ...]]]]]

2003-12-20 Thread JOHN MACKEY
Sorry everyone, I intended to send this as a private e-mail to Neil.

JOHN MACKEY [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Neil McKie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   that capacitor.  If you happen to accidentially short across the 
   capacitor plates with your tuning tool, you would blow the varactor 
   diode. 
  
Sounds like you had the wrong Motorola tuning tool ... :( 
 
 The problem was that what motorola directed as the correct tuning tool was
 usually not strong enough to do the job.  So then you had to use a metal
 tipped tool  be very careful.
 
 

http://www.siouxcityjournal.com/articles/2003/12/20/obituaries/local/6e63a3a2ea23577286256e02001eeb51.txt
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
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Re: [Re: [Repeater-Builder] TS-64]

2003-12-20 Thread JOHN MACKEY
Yes, that would be very good for a write up!

Chuck Kelsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Why don't you write it up in some detail and submit to Kevin for posting on
 the Repeater-Builder web site?
 
 Chuck
 WB2EDV
 
 
 - Original Message - 
 From: Virden Clark Beckman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2003 8:19 AM
 Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] TS-64
 
 
  This is defeatable, I have described this several times - instead of
  turning off the tone generator thereby activating the reverse burst just
  use a hold low in between 2 15K resistors to pinch the pl output of the
  ts64 module going towards the modulator. To use this you will have to
  hold the orange wire low full time, and you will find the switching time
  is faster than the reverse burst.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
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[Repeater-Builder] Motorola PAC/RT

2003-12-20 Thread Patrick
I am looking for a manual for a VHF PAC/RT. Anyone have one (or a 
copy) they would like to part with? 

Patrick
W9PAT
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




 

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RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: IRLP TYPE BOARD LOOKING

2003-12-20 Thread Pat England
Vega also makes a box that will do two links at the same time. Dealer
cost is about $875 per unit.

KB5MBK

-Original Message-
From: dep_ru_kidding [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2003 1:34 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: IRLP TYPE BOARD LOOKING

Maybe I didn't express the idea very well. If your not familiar with 
the JPS NXU-2's they are a stand-alone black box that requires 
nothing but power, Ethernet 10base=T connection and of course 
programming on an IP address to locate the other end.

SEE http://www.jps.com/index.asp?node=89

The NXU-2's will find each other and maintain an open channel 
providing all the signaling for repeaters or remote base operations. 
An example of the two I have we had one end with a Motorola Spectra 
and the other end was a DC remote and it didn't matter where the two 
were as long as they found each other they worked. The issue here is 
the JPS NXU-2 box's cost $1,500.00 each and I can't imagine no one 
makes a similar device for a lot less.

The end result I'm looking for is to use 802.11b modems as the ISP 
and have the two units locate each other through my network. I figure 
with dish antennas and good feedline I should see a 35-mile path no 
problem.

I hope this clarifies what I'm looking for, and YES I know there's 
lots of old computers out there that could be thrown at this but when 
you install stuff in solar powered sites, or sites with lots of RF a 
computer running 50, 100, 200 MHz processors might not be a good idea 
let alone the need for rebooting these babies ever so often.

But please keep the cards and letters coming, with all that HAM radio 
is someone out there must have something similar all ready operating.







--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Adi Linden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  can pass it reliably enough.  I have a couple of off brand boxes 
like the
  multitechs that were $150 each.  Net2Phone has a 2 port unit that 
would 
  require an account with them but, it would not cost to call from 
unit to 
  unit.  It is $200 ea. here. 
 
 Pretty similar to a Cisco ata186. Our club is trying to link a 
couple of 
 repeaters using Cisco ata186's. Not sure how progess is going with 
it. The 
 difficulty I see is passing PTT/COS over a plain voice connection 
and 
 having the VoIP hardware automatically connect and reconnect 
without user 
 intervention.
 
 Adi
 -- 
Adi Linden  |  va3adi  |  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  |  http://adis.ca
 +-+
 IRLP Node 2590 in Sioux Lookout, Ontario





 

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[Repeater-Builder] Reverse Burst

2003-12-20 Thread skipp025
Comm Spec or Selectone used to make a simple 
(and cheap) reverse burst board that worked 
well. PC board about the size of a postage 
stamp square. 
My last conversation with with the factory 
said they didn't make enough money on them
to keep production going, but they were able 
to supply me with diagram for the RB-1 I 
obtained second hand. Might be time to dig 
that diagram out and make it available. 

cheers

skipp025 at yahoo.com 




 

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Re: [[Repeater-Builder] Reverse Burst]

2003-12-20 Thread JOHN MACKEY
skipp025 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
SNIP
 to supply me with diagram for the RB-1 I 
 obtained second hand. Might be time to dig 
 that diagram out and make it available. 

Be aware, about 10 years ago I did some modifications
to the RB-1 board (to meet some special needs I had
for the timing  reverse encode) and I discovered that
there were a few components on that board which were not
in the factory supplied schematic.  I called engineering at 
Commspec  they confirmed there were parts missing in the
printed schematic.





 

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Re: [Re: [Repeater-Builder] TS-64]

2003-12-20 Thread Mike Morris WA6ILQ




It's not that hard...
Unfortunately I don't have a working test bench right now to do any 

engineering. If somebody wants to run with the idea below and do

the breadboarding and write up the article I'd be glad to edit it, 
HTML-it, and post it.
Basically you leave the encoder running all the time (Virden, it that

what the orange wire you were referring to does?), and have two 
resistors in series between the encoder output and the TX modulator 

input. A FET goes from the center point to ground. You
control the 
FET with the RX COR so that the encoder audio is pinched off when 
the RX squelch is closed.
You can also use an ordinary NPN transistor in a pinch.

You'll need Courier font for the diagram below.
encoder 
output --\/\/\/--+---\/\/\/\/ to TX modulator (usually

!
the top of the dev pot (may

!
need a DC blocking capacitor)

!

+--!

!---\/\/\/---to controller output

+--!
or COR output

!

gnd

Personally, I'd not use the raw COR output - I'd add a little
delay 
somewhere in the system so that a fluttery signal didn't flutter the

PL encoder on and off Maybe use and RC network, or set up a

logic output on the repeater controller with a 1/3 to 1/2 second delay

and control the FET with it, and have a 2 to 3 second carrier delay 

(hang-in) timer on the repeater.
End of problem.
By the way, this trick has been around for 30 or so years - I first did
it on 
WA6EWS's Mocom 35 to allow the PL encoder to be enabled or disabled -
Moto 
had a T-filter using two resistors like the diagram above with a
capacitor to 
ground... I used the front panel extender switch to short out
the cap and disable 
the tone.
Mike WA6ILQ

At 01:16 PM 12/20/03 -0600, JOHN MACKEY [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Yes, that would be very good for a
write up!
Chuck Kelsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Why don't you write it up in some detail and submit to Kevin for

 posting on the Repeater-Builder web site?
 
 Chuck
 WB2EDV
 
 
 - Original Message - 
 From: Virden Clark Beckman 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2003 8:19 AM
 Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] TS-64
 
  This is defeatable, I have described this several times -
instead of
  turning off the tone generator thereby activating the reverse
burst just
  use a hold low in between 2 15K resistors to pinch the pl
output of the
  ts64 module going towards the modulator. To use this you will
have to
  hold the orange wire low full time, and you will find the
switching time
  is faster than the reverse burst.










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RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: IRLP TYPE BOARD LOOKING

2003-12-20 Thread Mike Morris WA6ILQ
Model number?

Is there a web site with more info?

Mike WA6ILQ

At 02:27 PM 12/20/03 -0600, you wrote:

Vega also makes a box that will do two links at the same time. Dealer
cost is about $875 per unit.

KB5MBK

-Original Message-
From: dep_ru_kidding [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2003 1:34 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: IRLP TYPE BOARD LOOKING

Maybe I didn't express the idea very well. If your not familiar with
the JPS NXU-2's they are a stand-alone black box that requires
nothing but power, Ethernet 10base=T connection and of course
programming on an IP address to locate the other end.

SEE http://www.jps.com/index.asp?node=89

The NXU-2's will find each other and maintain an open channel
providing all the signaling for repeaters or remote base operations.
An example of the two I have we had one end with a Motorola Spectra
and the other end was a DC remote and it didn't matter where the two
were as long as they found each other they worked. The issue here is
the JPS NXU-2 box's cost $1,500.00 each and I can't imagine no one
makes a similar device for a lot less.

The end result I'm looking for is to use 802.11b modems as the ISP
and have the two units locate each other through my network. I figure
with dish antennas and good feedline I should see a 35-mile path no
problem.

I hope this clarifies what I'm looking for, and YES I know there's
lots of old computers out there that could be thrown at this but when
you install stuff in solar powered sites, or sites with lots of RF a
computer running 50, 100, 200 MHz processors might not be a good idea
let alone the need for rebooting these babies ever so often.

But please keep the cards and letters coming, with all that HAM radio
is someone out there must have something similar all ready operating.







--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Adi Linden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   can pass it reliably enough.  I have a couple of off brand boxes
like the
   multitechs that were $150 each.  Net2Phone has a 2 port unit that
would
   require an account with them but, it would not cost to call from
unit to
   unit.  It is $200 ea. here.
 
  Pretty similar to a Cisco ata186. Our club is trying to link a
couple of
  repeaters using Cisco ata186's. Not sure how progess is going with
it. The
  difficulty I see is passing PTT/COS over a plain voice connection
and
  having the VoIP hardware automatically connect and reconnect
without user
  intervention.
 
  Adi
  --
 Adi Linden  |  va3adi  |  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  |  http://adis.ca
  +-+
  IRLP Node 2590 in Sioux Lookout, Ontario







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Re: [[Repeater-Builder] Reverse Burst]

2003-12-20 Thread Mike Morris WA6ILQ
If somebody will email me a good scan of the RB-1 paperwork,
and if John can send me the reverse-engineered schematic I'll
combine them and make a web page and add it to the Com-Spec
page on www.repeater-builder.com

Mike WA6ILQ


At 02:47 PM 12/20/03 -0600, you wrote:

skipp025 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
SNIP
  to supply me with diagram for the RB-1 I
  obtained second hand. Might be time to dig
  that diagram out and make it available.

Be aware, about 10 years ago I did some modifications
to the RB-1 board (to meet some special needs I had
for the timing  reverse encode) and I discovered that
there were a few components on that board which were not
in the factory supplied schematic.  I called engineering at
Commspec  they confirmed there were parts missing in the
printed schematic.







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RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: IRLP TYPE BOARD LOOKING

2003-12-20 Thread Dave Maciorowski
Hi Mike,

Model number?

 IP-223

Is there a web site with more info?

 http://www.vega-signaling.com/

 There's an interesting white paper on the topic.

 73,

 Dave



At 02:27 PM 12/20/03 -0600, you wrote:

 Vega also makes a box that will do two links at the same time. Dealer
 cost is about $875 per unit.
 
 KB5MBK
 
 -Original Message-
 From: dep_ru_kidding [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2003 1:34 AM
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: IRLP TYPE BOARD LOOKING
 
 Maybe I didn't express the idea very well. If your not familiar with
 the JPS NXU-2's they are a stand-alone black box that requires
 nothing but power, Ethernet 10base=T connection and of course
 programming on an IP address to locate the other end.
 
 SEE http://www.jps.com/index.asp?node=89
 
 The NXU-2's will find each other and maintain an open channel
 providing all the signaling for repeaters or remote base operations.
 An example of the two I have we had one end with a Motorola Spectra
 and the other end was a DC remote and it didn't matter where the two
 were as long as they found each other they worked. The issue here is
 the JPS NXU-2 box's cost $1,500.00 each and I can't imagine no one
 makes a similar device for a lot less.
 
 The end result I'm looking for is to use 802.11b modems as the ISP
 and have the two units locate each other through my network. I figure
 with dish antennas and good feedline I should see a 35-mile path no
 problem.
 
 I hope this clarifies what I'm looking for, and YES I know there's
 lots of old computers out there that could be thrown at this but when
 you install stuff in solar powered sites, or sites with lots of RF a
 computer running 50, 100, 200 MHz processors might not be a good idea
 let alone the need for rebooting these babies ever so often.
 
 But please keep the cards and letters coming, with all that HAM radio
 is someone out there must have something similar all ready operating.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Adi Linden [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
can pass it reliably enough.  I have a couple of off brand boxes
 like the
multitechs that were $150 each.  Net2Phone has a 2 port unit that
 would
require an account with them but, it would not cost to call from
 unit to
unit.  It is $200 ea. here.
  
   Pretty similar to a Cisco ata186. Our club is trying to link a
 couple of
   repeaters using Cisco ata186's. Not sure how progess is going with
 it. The
   difficulty I see is passing PTT/COS over a plain voice connection
 and
   having the VoIP hardware automatically connect and reconnect
 without user
   intervention.
  
   Adi
   --
  Adi Linden  |  va3adi  |  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  |  http://adis.ca
   +-+
   IRLP Node 2590 in Sioux Lookout, Ontario
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [[Repeater-Builder] Icom V8000 as a repeater transmitter]

2003-12-20 Thread JOHN MACKEY
The best thing you can do it use real repeater equipment like a Motorola Micor
or GE Mastr II.  Trying to make that Icom equipment work is going to be a
pain.  Use it for a mobile like it was intended to be.

jay_kruckenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I am having trouble finding any VHF radios to be used as a 
 transmitter for my repeater. I have a 2-meter repeater made from two 
 GM300 Motorola radios. My problem is is that the radio that is used 
 for transmit burned up the pa and is no longer usable. I have been 
 looking for a replacement but have not found one. Used VHF equipment 
 in my part of the country is getting next to impossible to find. My 
 question is. Would it be possible to use an ICOM V8000 2-meter mobile 
 radio as my transmitter? Coming from my controller I need PTT and TX 
 audio going into my transmitter. Can this be done with this radio? If 
 so, how? I have been told that this is a very rugged radio. My 
 repeater is not in continous use. Any help or ideas would be 
 appreciated.





 

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[Repeater-Builder] Re:use of Bp/Br duplexer as 2 channel combiner

2003-12-20 Thread kc7gf
Yes, it can be done as long as the frequencies are far enough apart. We used 
some TX/RX duplexers to put two 2 watt security transmitters on the two 
frequencies of a repeater pair into the same 450 antenna. This was done to send 
local alarms from a store and forward repeater site where the second frequency 
wasn't used so we didn't have to install a second antenna.

Art - KC7GF  



 

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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola PAC/RT

2003-12-20 Thread Neil McKie

  Would you have the model number of what you have there? 

  Thank you, 

  Neil - WA6KLA 


Patrick wrote:
 
 I am looking for a manual for a VHF PAC/RT. Anyone have one (or a
 copy) they would like to part with?
 
 Patrick
 W9PAT
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 
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