Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Duplexer tuning with an Oscilloscope
One can tune cavities with incorrect interconnecting cables and make work. The performance will be reduced, about 5% in many cases. Tuning cavities seperatly can result in they not tuned as one wants when they are connected due to the cavity impedance and other parameters are not perfect. Tuning together will correct this for one is now tuning each to meet what it is connected to. I do recommend having the correct cables, but with the high cost of duplexers it is often the way of obtaining from a defunked commercial system at a much reduced cost. New cables can often be obtained from the manufacture for the desired freq. They may cost upwards of $100/set. Also improvements in performance can be had with proper lengths between cavities and TX and RX. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Nate Duehr [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/25 Wed AM 12:25:51 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Duplexer tuning with an Oscilloscope w6nct wrote: The other (not-so-intuitive) part to this is that it is often difficult to do the tuning of a duplexer piece-meal; not impossible, just difficult. What I mean by this is trying to tune one stage (cavity), then another, then another; and combining it all together into the overall duplexer system. The problem is that the interconnecting pieces of coax become part of the tuned circuit. Once combined together, one cavity's tuning can impact the adjacent cavities. When I pre-cut the interconnecting cables to the specific resonant lengths, I could get much closer to having the combined system pretty close; but I've always had to adjust things just a little after it was all connected together as a duplexer system. Your observation is correct, and... your method started off accurate. Tune each cavity separately and when you hook them up together, if you're seeing double peaks and other odd things... think about what's wrong. The LENGTHS of the interconnect cables are incorrect. (Technically including the loop lengths inside the cavities.) Why? The duplexer's cables were factory-cut for a frequency too far away from your desired frequencies. At the point where you hook everything up after individually tuning cavities and things don't look right -- you need to adjust the lengths of the cables to make the duplexer behave. NOT the tuning rods. Retuning the cavities is NOT the right way to fix it if the cavities when hooked together. (The key here is to remember that is is NOT possible for the frequency of a quarter wave stub to change. It doesn't. But it's possible that the cable lengths are wrong, thus the filters can't work properly together to combine and make a better filter for the frequency in question.) If the duplexer as a full-set isn't producing a proper pattern on the test gear after tuning each can individually with a proper dummy load on the other side... the cable lengths are not right to couple everything together properly. I am also told that a service monitor or spectrum analyzer with a tracking generator built-in is also a preferred method; but I have never been able to afford either. They make it real easy to see the above effects and fix them properly. After having used them, I'd beg, borrow or steal to never have to tune a duplexer any other way, ever again. Nate WY0X Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] 3x - Duplexers Sinclair SD-220,,,,2x Zetron 36B
Gervais, Obviously the problem with the duplexers is they will not do 600 kHz split. A UHF versions will do the 5 MHz split for Ham use. MARS, CAP and other normally gov related services that use wider splits can often use your VHF duplexers. They can be fitted inside many smaller repeaters making them very portable and compact. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: gervais [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/24 Tue PM 07:26:54 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] 3x - Duplexers Sinclair SD-2202x Zetron 36B Hi all, i have 3 little duplexers here Sinclair SD-220 tuned at a:F1 152.660 F2 157.950 b:F1 tx 152.195,RX 157.465 c:F1 152.660,F2 157.950 theses are little duplexers , and i also have 2 Zetron 36B with a manual @Phone link@ make me an offer with something like an Portable or a mobile radio 73/s Gervais ve2ckn 73/s Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
[Repeater-Builder] tuning a Cellwave 6 cavity duplexer with out sight
Hey guys, I have something I'd like to throw out too you and see if there is a way to do this. For my repeater I'll have a Cellwave 6 cavity duplexer and I would like to learn how to tune it myself. I am totally blind and they don't make a talking service monitor that I am aware of. How would one with out sight tune a duplexer. There must be some way it could be done. Even if it means I have to make my own monitor other wise it'll cost me and I don't get the satisfaction of learning. Scott N7ZIB
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Reasonably low wind load antenna
ACE hardware stores stocks 10' aluminum poles Chris - Original Message From: n3dab [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 2:14:33 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Reasonably low wind load antenna For anyone looking for a DB mast to mount their dipoles and harness on, check out all you commercial radio shops for damaged or pulled DB antennas. Don't worry about what band they are on - all you wan't is the mast anyway. DB's are sleeved internally at the center joint with exposed ends of the upper and lower mast sections being cut at a 45 degree angle. The sleeve is secured in the top mast section and slides into the bottom section about a foot. the top and bottom are secured together with 2 SS hose clamps. The base is also sleeved internally for clamp reinforcement. Another source would be a metal fabricator or aluminum supplier and purchase a 20' section of 1 3/4 0r 2 heavywall aluminum tube and mount your dipoles on it. Wall thickness should be 1/8 thick minimum top to bottom. If you can also pick up a 24 long section of tube to slip up into the bottom to reinforce the clamping area all the better. Doug N3DAB --- In Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com, Jim Cicirello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ron, Thanks for the mounting information. I also lack the DB224 Mast that the four dipoles mount on. From my research the original is two pieces about twelve feet long that I believe bolt together, the diameter I have not been able to find. From the ones I have seen the mounting pole is quite robust. Do you have any pole stock that you could recommend that would hold the DB224 on a side mount configuration? As I recall although the mast was very rigid, it was quite lightweight. Thanks JIM KA2AJH _ From: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:Repeater- [EMAIL PROTECTED] .com] On Behalf Of Ron Wright Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 12:23 PM To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Reasonably low wind load antenna Jim, The DB224 is usually supplied with 2 clamps where each clamp attaches to the DB224 mast and the other side clamps to the tower/mounting pipe. I believe these are made for 2-1/2 pipe. At www.tessco.com you can see pictures of these clamps and also purchase them although they are not cheap. They are very rugged galvanized clamps with 3/8-1/2 bolts 8 or so long and nuts. I would recommend looking on e-bay or someone here that might have them. Another mount is side mounts. For DB224 18 off the tower is typical. These have V shaped pieces one at each end of 2 pipes. The V is clamped to the tower and the other end the DB224 is clamped. You really need 2 mounts for this, one at the bottom and one near the top. Usually the top mount is a single pipe with C/U clamps to keep the antenna from swaying and the bottom holds the antenna weight. The DB 224 can be top mounted without the fear of the swaying in the wind damaging it unlike fiberglass antennas. I like putting top and bottom mounts when one can, but if top mounted not done for obvious reasons (there is no top, hi). 73,ron, n9ee/r From: Jim Cicirello [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:ka2ajh% 40gmail.com com Date: 2008/06/24 Tue AM 11:11:02 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater- Builder%40yahoog roups.com yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Reasonably low wind load antenna Hi Ron Another Question Please: I was fortunate enough to buy a good DB224 without the support mast. After following the opinions on wind loading, etc. I am wondering what can be used for a support mast and where the masting might be purchased? Any ideas? Thanks JIM KA2AJH - Original Message - From: Ron Wright To: Repeater- Builder@ mailto:Repeater- Builder%40yahoog roups.com yahoogroups. com Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 7:47 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Reasonably low wind load antenna Tony, First the Ringo-Ranger does not have the 7 dbi gain. To think a smaller 12 ft antenna would have about the same gain as one the size of a 4 bay dipole is not realistic. One note of info...antenna manufactures, especially from Japan, lie all the time. I would not use such harsh words except after years of this junk something needs to be said. I is said here on this board all the time for many know antenna performance here, hi. Your wind loading limits will require a smaller, lower gain antenna. If ice is a problem the Ringo-Ranger will probably not last that long. I would recommend going to www.tessco.com, a distributor of 2-way gear, and check thru their antenna section. They have a number of finnne manufactures with their specs. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Tony VE6MVP [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:tony% 40ve6mvp. com com Date: 2008/06/23 Mon PM 10:28:11 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater- Builder%40yahoog roups.com yahoogroups. com Subject:
Re: [Repeater-Builder] tuning a Cellwave 6 cavity duplexer with out sight
Scott, There are normally, not for all, 2 things that are tuned on a duplexer; notch and pass. Notch removes signal (min sig) and pass lets as much as it will thru (max). As with tuning rigs one tunes for SINAD or in FM quieting...that is tunes to get more quieting of the received signal. If you had a cavity/duplexer between a signal gen and a receiver on the output you could tune the notch adjustments for most noise, starting with quieting signal and tune the pass for least noise or quieting all the time adjusting the sig gen output as you go. Having a meter, talking meter I guess, with S-meter connection would also help. I think you get the idea; tune the notch to remove as much signal as you can and tune pass to get the most signal as you can using the speaker noise as the meter. I am sure others have better ways. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Scott Berry N7ZIB [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/25 Wed AM 08:33:56 EDT To: Repeater Builder Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] tuning a Cellwave 6 cavity duplexer with out sight Hey guys, I have something I’d like to throw out too you and seeif there is a way to do this. For my repeater I’ll have a Cellwave 6 cavityduplexer and I would like to learn how to tune it myself. I am totally blind andthey don’t make a talking service monitor that I am aware of. How would onewith out sight tune a duplexer. There must be some way it could be done. Evenif it means I have to make my own monitor other wise it’ll cost me and I don’tget the satisfaction of learning. Scott N7ZIB Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
[Repeater-Builder] Looking for manual for Moto B91RCB station
330w low-band station in the tall cabinet: B91RCB6405A. Looking for the proper manual number(s) for this station, then I'll probably be looking for the actual manuals themselves. I am presuming that one manual would cover the RF portions and another would cover the control section. Both would be useful for repair, tuning, and interfacing. I have a two-manual set for a 75w UHF Micor station. This is for a friend in northern CT. Let me know what to ask for, then whom, and I'll pass it along. Thanks. Bob M.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Looking for manual for Moto B91RCB station
Bob, I'm at my office until 4pm but I do have that manual at my house. I'm running two of those stations, one on 10 meters and one on 6 meters. I'll either email you tonight what I find or contact you on your repeater if I find a high spot in town. Adam N2ACF At 10:14 AM 6/25/2008, you wrote: 330w low-band station in the tall cabinet: B91RCB6405A. Looking for the proper manual number(s) for this station, then I'll probably be looking for the actual manuals themselves. I am presuming that one manual would cover the RF portions and another would cover the control section. Both would be useful for repair, tuning, and interfacing. I have a two-manual set for a 75w UHF Micor station. This is for a friend in northern CT. Let me know what to ask for, then whom, and I'll pass it along. Thanks. Bob M. Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Reasonably low wind load antenna
I have mounted the elements of a DB-224 directly to one leg of a tower with great results. All elements were mounted in-line vertically, and it provided a 3 dB offset in the pattern, but the pattern was circular, with the 3 dB offset toward the direction the elements were pointed. 73 - Jim W5ZIT --- On Tue, 6/24/08, Jim Cicirello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Jim Cicirello [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Reasonably low wind load antenna To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, June 24, 2008, 10:11 AM Hi Ron Another Question Please: I was fortunate enough to buy a good DB224 without the support mast. After following the opinions on wind loading, etc. I am wondering what can be used for a support mast and where the masting might be purchased? Any ideas? Thanks JIM KA2AJH - Original Message - From: Ron Wright To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 7:47 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Reasonably low wind load antenna Tony, First the Ringo-Ranger does not have the 7 dbi gain. To think a smaller 12 ft antenna would have about the same gain as one the size of a 4 bay dipole is not realistic. One note of info...antenna manufactures, especially from Japan, lie all the time. I would not use such harsh words except after years of this junk something needs to be said. I is said here on this board all the time for many know antenna performance here, hi. Your wind loading limits will require a smaller, lower gain antenna. If ice is a problem the Ringo-Ranger will probably not last that long. I would recommend going to www.tessco.com, a distributor of 2-way gear, and check thru their antenna section. They have a number of finnne manufactures with their specs. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Tony VE6MVP [EMAIL PROTECTED] com Date: 2008/06/23 Mon PM 10:28:11 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Reasonably low wind load antenna Folks We're moving a VHF amateur repeater to a 96' Trylon self supportingtower. The overwhelming opinion is that our current 210C4 four bayfolded dipole would be too much of a weight and wind load for thattower. One comment has been the Ringo Ranger. The wind load of theCushcraft Ringo Ranger II ARX2Bhttp:// cushcraft. com/comm/ support/pdf/ RINGOS%20AR2% 206%2010% 20ARX450% 20220B%202B. pdfis 0.5 square feet. The windload of the Sinclar SD214 http://www.sinclair technologies. com/catalog/ resources/ pdf/SD214- HF2P3LDF(D00S-LSABK) -DI.pdf (newer model to 210C4) is 5.57 square feet. Although the ice area is 17.04 sq ft. The SD214 has a dbd gain of 7.2, dbi of 9.3. The Ringo Ranger has dbi gain of 7.0. However the coverage plot in rural slightly hilly Alberta isn't all that much different. What would be suggestions for an alternative? Comments? Thanks, Tony (rapidly learning lots about towers and repeaters) Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Reasonably low wind load antenna
Back in the '70s I was forced to use a Ringo Ranger atop a 100 ft tower for a repeater. The antenna provided about 15 mile coverage in our flat terrain. The performance increased to about 20 miles when I added a makeshift ground plane to the bottom of the antenna. When we replaced the Ranger with a DB-224 the coverage increased to around 25 miles, all with the same 60 watt GE Prog Line. Just some recollections of the Ranger performance. On the other hand, a ham in McKinney over 30 miles away could work all the mobiles in Greenville with no problem from his Ranger, so the installation appeared to be highly variable. I think the later addition of the feedline section and ground plane to the Ranger design provided some compensation to the shortcomings of the Ranger. 73 - Jim W5ZIT --- On Tue, 6/24/08, Ernest Kapphahn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Ernest Kapphahn [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Reasonably low wind load antenna To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, June 24, 2008, 10:27 AM You could replace a commercial VHF folded dipole array with a Ringo Ranger, but you would experience reduced performance, higher lightning risk, and will likely have a broken antenna in the first year of use. Re-examine the engineering data on that tower and you will probably find the dipole array will not exceed it's capability. When dealing with repeater antennas, be leary of advice from amateurs whose only experience is with their base stations. Ernie W6KAP --- In Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 6/23/2008 19:28, you wrote: Folks We're moving a VHF amateur repeater to a 96' Trylon self supporting tower. The overwhelming opinion is that our current 210C4 four bay folded dipole would be too much of a weight and wind load for that tower. One comment has been the Ringo Ranger. In a word, yuk! _
RE: [Repeater-Builder] tuning a Cellwave 6 cavity duplexer with out sight
Scott, As Ron has mentioned you could use a talking meter or adjust for max noise on the pass circuits and min on the reject. But the human ear will not be near as accurate as you want and need. (especially after the years of loud music on marshall amplifiers, and the thousands of rounds discharged- hihi) I know you may just want to learn how (like me) but you need to get some help on this one. Send it to me and I would be glad to tune it. 73 Don Kirchner W5DK From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Wright Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 7:47 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] tuning a Cellwave 6 cavity duplexer with out sight Scott, There are normally, not for all, 2 things that are tuned on a duplexer; notch and pass. Notch removes signal (min sig) and pass lets as much as it will thru (max). As with tuning rigs one tunes for SINAD or in FM quieting...that is tunes to get more quieting of the received signal. If you had a cavity/duplexer between a signal gen and a receiver on the output you could tune the notch adjustments for most noise, starting with quieting signal and tune the pass for least noise or quieting all the time adjusting the sig gen output as you go. Having a meter, talking meter I guess, with S-meter connection would also help. I think you get the idea; tune the notch to remove as much signal as you can and tune pass to get the most signal as you can using the speaker noise as the meter. I am sure others have better ways. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Scott Berry N7ZIB [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:sberry%40northlc.com Date: 2008/06/25 Wed AM 08:33:56 EDT To: Repeater Builder Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] tuning a Cellwave 6 cavity duplexer with out sight Hey guys, I have something I’d like to throw out too you and seeif there is a way to do this. For my repeater I’ll have a Cellwave 6 cavityduplexer and I would like to learn how to tune it myself. I am totally blind andthey don’t make a talking service monitor that I am aware of. How would onewith out sight tune a duplexer. There must be some way it could be done. Evenif it means I have to make my own monitor other wise it’ll cost me and I don’tget the satisfaction of learning. Scott N7ZIB Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Reasonably low wind load antenna
A couple of years ago I stopped by Texas Towers trying to buy replacement tubing for a DB-224. After pricing the tubing he had available, I wound up buying a used DB 8 dipole 440 antenna and removing the 440 dipoles and replacing with the 2 meter dipoles. All worked just fine. But the tubing he had in stock would not match the DB mast specs close enough to trust. 73 - Jim W5ZIT --- On Tue, 6/24/08, n9wys [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: n9wys [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Reasonably low wind load antenna To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, June 24, 2008, 5:11 PM Doesn't Texas Towers and other such vendors sell heavy-duty aluminum mast tubing? Why not try there? Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com On Behalf Of n3dab For anyone looking for a DB mast to mount their dipoles and harness on, check out all you commercial radio shops for damaged or pulled DB antennas. Don't worry about what band they are on - all you wan't is the mast anyway. DB's are sleeved internally at the center joint with exposed ends of the upper and lower mast sections being cut at a 45 degree angle. The sleeve is secured in the top mast section and slides into the bottom section about a foot. the top and bottom are secured together with 2 SS hose clamps. The base is also sleeved internally for clamp reinforcement. Another source would be a metal fabricator or aluminum supplier and purchase a 20' section of 1 3/4 0r 2 heavywall aluminum tube and mount your dipoles on it. Wall thickness should be 1/8 thick minimum top to bottom. If you can also pick up a 24 long section of tube to slip up into the bottom to reinforce the clamping area all the better. Doug N3DAB --- In Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com, Jim Cicirello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ron, Thanks for the mounting information. I also lack the DB224 Mast that the four dipoles mount on. From my research the original is two pieces about twelve feet long that I believe bolt together, the diameter I have not been able to find. From the ones I have seen the mounting pole is quite robust. Do you have any pole stock that you could recommend that would hold the DB224 on a side mount configuration? As I recall although the mast was very rigid, it was quite lightweight. Thanks JIM KA2AJH __._,
RE: [Repeater-Builder] tuning a Cellwave 6 cavity duplexer with out sight
Ron, Good ideas there. I'll definitely try it. Roger has some good ideas also so maybe between the two of you I can get er right where I want it. Scott N7ZIB _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Wright Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 7:47 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] tuning a Cellwave 6 cavity duplexer with out sight Scott, There are normally, not for all, 2 things that are tuned on a duplexer; notch and pass. Notch removes signal (min sig) and pass lets as much as it will thru (max). As with tuning rigs one tunes for SINAD or in FM quieting...that is tunes to get more quieting of the received signal. If you had a cavity/duplexer between a signal gen and a receiver on the output you could tune the notch adjustments for most noise, starting with quieting signal and tune the pass for least noise or quieting all the time adjusting the sig gen output as you go. Having a meter, talking meter I guess, with S-meter connection would also help. I think you get the idea; tune the notch to remove as much signal as you can and tune pass to get the most signal as you can using the speaker noise as the meter. I am sure others have better ways. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Scott Berry N7ZIB [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:sberry%40northlc.com com Date: 2008/06/25 Wed AM 08:33:56 EDT To: Repeater Builder Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] tuning a Cellwave 6 cavity duplexer with out sight Hey guys, I have something I'd like to throw out too you and seeif there is a way to do this. For my repeater I'll have a Cellwave 6 cavityduplexer and I would like to learn how to tune it myself. I am totally blind andthey don't make a talking service monitor that I am aware of. How would onewith out sight tune a duplexer. There must be some way it could be done. Evenif it means I have to make my own monitor other wise it'll cost me and I don'tget the satisfaction of learning. Scott N7ZIB Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1518 - Release Date: 6/25/2008 9:46 AM
RE: [Repeater-Builder] tuning a Cellwave 6 cavity duplexer with out sight
Don, Can you write me off list at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and I'll get your mailing addie. It'll be in August but I am setting up the Echo Station software right now to get everything going. Scott N7ZIB _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of de W5DK Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 10:17 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] tuning a Cellwave 6 cavity duplexer with out sight Scott, As Ron has mentioned you could use a talking meter or adjust for max noise on the pass circuits and min on the reject. But the human ear will not be near as accurate as you want and need. (especially after the years of loud music on marshall amplifiers, and the thousands of rounds discharged- hihi) I know you may just want to learn how (like me) but you need to get some help on this one. Send it to me and I would be glad to tune it. 73 Don Kirchner W5DK From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Wright Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 7:47 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] tuning a Cellwave 6 cavity duplexer with out sight Scott, There are normally, not for all, 2 things that are tuned on a duplexer; notch and pass. Notch removes signal (min sig) and pass lets as much as it will thru (max). As with tuning rigs one tunes for SINAD or in FM quieting...that is tunes to get more quieting of the received signal. If you had a cavity/duplexer between a signal gen and a receiver on the output you could tune the notch adjustments for most noise, starting with quieting signal and tune the pass for least noise or quieting all the time adjusting the sig gen output as you go. Having a meter, talking meter I guess, with S-meter connection would also help. I think you get the idea; tune the notch to remove as much signal as you can and tune pass to get the most signal as you can using the speaker noise as the meter. I am sure others have better ways. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Scott Berry N7ZIB [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:sberry%40northlc.com com Date: 2008/06/25 Wed AM 08:33:56 EDT To: Repeater Builder Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] tuning a Cellwave 6 cavity duplexer with out sight Hey guys, I have something I'd like to throw out too you and seeif there is a way to do this. For my repeater I'll have a Cellwave 6 cavityduplexer and I would like to learn how to tune it myself. I am totally blind andthey don't make a talking service monitor that I am aware of. How would onewith out sight tune a duplexer. There must be some way it could be done. Evenif it means I have to make my own monitor other wise it'll cost me and I don'tget the satisfaction of learning. Scott N7ZIB Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1518 - Release Date: 6/25/2008 9:46 AM
Re: [Repeater-Builder] tuning a Cellwave 6 cavity duplexer with out sight
At 05:33 AM 06/25/08, you wrote: Hey guys, I have something I'd like to throw out too you and see if there is a way to do this. For my repeater I'll have a Cellwave 6 cavity duplexer and I would like to learn how to tune it myself. I am totally blind and they don't make a talking service monitor that I am aware of. How would one with out sight tune a duplexer. There must be some way it could be done. Even if it means I have to make my own monitor other wise it'll cost me and I don't get the satisfaction of learning. Scott N7ZIB A talking service monitor would have a hard time describing a graphical frequency-vs-amplitude scope trace with a canned speech vocabulary. Scott, I'm not up-to-date on assistive technology for the blind, but do you have access to an Optacon, or something similar? If so, and you have access to a sighted person who knows how to run a service monitor with a tracking generator (or better yes, a return loss bridge) and you two could get together then you could use the Optacon to see the oscilloscope traces. Note to the other list members the Optacon I got to look at 20 years ago was a two-piece device, one is a hand-held scanner head with a number of close-spaced light sensors (9, if my memory is accurate) in a vertical row a little taller than the height of one line of newspaper printing. The scanner head is coupled to the rest of the hardware by a cable. The other half of the Optacon was about the size of a stack of a half-dozen National Geographic magazines, and contained a gell-cell, some electronics, and a finger cup that the user put his index finger into. Inside the cup was a set of wires (one per optical sensor) driven by solenoids (the wires were spaced so all were in a 3/8 inch row). The idea was that as the user moved the scanner head across a printed page he/she could feel the shape of the printed letters. No, it wasn't a Braille converter, but just a optical-to-tactile shape reader/translator. Anyway, I've seen a blind person use an Optacon to read a newspaper almost as fast as I could. He also used it to read a computer screen. In fact, the screen was one of the early Zenith totally-flat screens and it was sunk into a desktop right where a mouse pad would be, and the user had their left index finger in the tactile readout and the right hand used the Optacon scanner head as if it was a mouse and swept it across the screen to find the text of interest, and then to read it.. There is no reason that a Optacon-style system couldn't be used to let Scott see the screen on a service monitor or a return loss bridge, and I have no doubt that the technology used in the 1980s Optacon has advanced since then. A sighted helper could, in one teaching session, show Scott how the shape of a pass cavity response changes as the cavity comes into resonance, then two cavities in series, then swap it for a pass-notch cavity, then two or three, then the effects of a wrong-length cable, and more. He could sweep the scanner head across the scope trace, and as the cavity reached resonance he could see the center part of the trace dip lower and lower. Mike WA6ILQ
RE: [Repeater-Builder] tuning a Cellwave 6 cavity duplexer with out sight
Mike, I do not know how to read nor have an optacon. That's one thing I don't know. Grin! So that's out of the question. Scott N7ZIB - Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Morris WA6ILQ Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 2:20 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] tuning a Cellwave 6 cavity duplexer with out sight At 05:33 AM 06/25/08, you wrote: Hey guys, I have something I'd like to throw out too you and see if there is a way to do this. For my repeater I'll have a Cellwave 6 cavity duplexer and I would like to learn how to tune it myself. I am totally blind and they don't make a talking service monitor that I am aware of. How would one with out sight tune a duplexer. There must be some way it could be done. Even if it means I have to make my own monitor other wise it'll cost me and I don't get the satisfaction of learning. Scott N7ZIB A talking service monitor would have a hard time describing a graphical frequency-vs-amplitude scope trace with a canned speech vocabulary. Scott, I'm not up-to-date on assistive technology for the blind, but do you have access to an Optacon, or something similar? If so, and you have access to a sighted person who knows how to run a service monitor with a tracking generator (or better yes, a return loss bridge) and you two could get together then you could use the Optacon to see the oscilloscope traces. Note to the other list members the Optacon I got to look at 20 years ago was a two-piece device, one is a hand-held scanner head with a number of close-spaced light sensors (9, if my memory is accurate) in a vertical row a little taller than the height of one line of newspaper printing. The scanner head is coupled to the rest of the hardware by a cable. The other half of the Optacon was about the size of a stack of a half-dozen National Geographic magazines, and contained a gell-cell, some electronics, and a finger cup that the user put his index finger into. Inside the cup was a set of wires (one per optical sensor) driven by solenoids (the wires were spaced so all were in a 3/8 inch row). The idea was that as the user moved the scanner head across a printed page he/she could feel the shape of the printed letters. No, it wasn't a Braille converter, but just a optical-to-tactile shape reader/translator. Anyway, I've seen a blind person use an Optacon to read a newspaper almost as fast as I could. He also used it to read a computer screen. In fact, the screen was one of the early Zenith totally-flat screens and it was sunk into a desktop right where a mouse pad would be, and the user had their left index finger in the tactile readout and the right hand used the Optacon scanner head as if it was a mouse and swept it across the screen to find the text of interest, and then to read it.. There is no reason that a Optacon-style system couldn't be used to let Scott see the screen on a service monitor or a return loss bridge, and I have no doubt that the technology used in the 1980s Optacon has advanced since then. A sighted helper could, in one teaching session, show Scott how the shape of a pass cavity response changes as the cavity comes into resonance, then two cavities in series, then swap it for a pass-notch cavity, then two or three, then the effects of a wrong-length cable, and more. He could sweep the scanner head across the scope trace, and as the cavity reached resonance he could see the center part of the trace dip lower and lower. Mike WA6ILQ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1518 - Release Date: 6/25/2008 9:46 AM
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: anyone know backdoor to csi tone panels
skipp025 wrote: Mike, Check out my free web page on the subject... and after reading it I can answer questions as I am/was a Service Station for CSI Tone Panels. The back door code information is available on the page below. http://www.radiowrench.com/sonic/so02010.html and check out the Super 32 and CSI Plus information on the same sonic page section. http://www.radiowrench.com/sonic cheers, skipp Speaking of that, I have 7 CSI-32's I want to sell off. An 8th is up at a site and will be replaced soon. All were removed from service at the end of last year working. I have cables for the 7, although I don't think they are factory cables. I'd like to get $50 a piece for them. Send me an email off list! Jim WD8CHL
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Looking for manual for Moto B91RCB station
Bob, The service manual for the B91RCB upright 330 watt station is 6881022E95, but it is no longer available from Motorola Parts. The other manual you need is 6881025E60, which is the Micor Control and Applications Manual, but it also is NLA. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob M. Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 7:15 AM To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Looking for manual for Moto B91RCB station 330w low-band station in the tall cabinet: B91RCB6405A. Looking for the proper manual number(s) for this station, then I'll probably be looking for the actual manuals themselves. I am presuming that one manual would cover the RF portions and another would cover the control section. Both would be useful for repair, tuning, and interfacing. I have a two-manual set for a 75w UHF Micor station. This is for a friend in northern CT. Let me know what to ask for, then whom, and I'll pass it along. Thanks. Bob M.
[Repeater-Builder] New file uploaded to Repeater-Builder
Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the Repeater-Builder group. File: /DIGITAL/D-STAR Digital Voice versus Analog FM Sensitivity.pdf Uploaded by : wb9qzb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Description : D-STAR Digital Voice Sensitivity versus Analog FM Sensitivity - TAPR PSR Spring 2008 You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/files/DIGITAL/D-STAR%20Digital%20Voice%20versus%20Analog%20FM%20Sensitivity.pdf To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.htmlfiles Regards, wb9qzb [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Repeater-Builder] Bird Thruline Remote Power Sensor 4E100
Anybody have any info on this UHF power sensor? It is no longer in the Bird catalog and isn't even listed in their obsolete files. I picked up a couple off of fleaBay a while back and was hoping to use one for repeater remote power monitoring. Each has an N-connector input and output, and solder lugs for ground and what I assume are outputs for forward and reflected from which to measure voltage. What is mystifying me is that what I believe to be the forward port presents about 0.5VDC for about 80 watts input, while the reflected side presents a very similar 0.45V, all while transmitting to a dummy load. Measurement with a Bird 43 shows NO reflected power. Thoughts? Tnx in advance, Bob K5IQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Bird Thruline Remote Power Sensor 4E100
They might have been on FleaBay because someone blew the internal diodes? 73, Paul, AE4KR - Original Message - From: Bob To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 7:53 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Bird Thruline Remote Power Sensor 4E100 Anybody have any info on this UHF power sensor? It is no longer in the Bird catalog and isn't even listed in their obsolete files. I picked up a couple off of fleaBay a while back and was hoping to use one for repeater remote power monitoring. Each has an N-connector input and output, and solder lugs for ground and what I assume are outputs for forward and reflected from which to measure voltage. What is mystifying me is that what I believe to be the forward port presents about 0.5VDC for about 80 watts input, while the reflected side presents a very similar 0.45V, all while transmitting to a dummy load. Measurement with a Bird 43 shows NO reflected power. Thoughts? Tnx in advance, Bob K5IQ
[Repeater-Builder] CAT-1000: CW Character for Courtesy Tone
Is there a way to send a CW character from the vocabulary list as a courtesy tone? I've been doing it by 'creating' cw characters manually in the courtesy tone editor, but that will only work if the character is 3 elements or less. I'd like to send a 'W' for one of my systems and a 'C' for the other. I can build a 'W', but not a 'C'. Am I out of luck? Mike WM4B
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Reasonably low wind load antenna
At 05:11 PM 6/24/2008, you wrote: Doesn't Texas Towers and other such vendors sell heavy-duty aluminum mast tubing? Why not try there? The only thing is, Mark, that I for one will never do any business with Texas Towers. We recently had a project to purchase radio equipment for area hospitals and the people at Texas Towers did their dead-level best to make it impossible to deal with them. They got their wish - I will never do business with them - and I urge all others to use the same policy. Larry N5WLW
[Repeater-Builder] Feedline Connector Sealant Tape
Hi Guys, A cell phone Tower Tech. gave me some Cell-Tape (C-Tape) for weather proofing connectors. I used some tonight on a connector and compared to Coax Seal or #33 Tape and 3M Sealant this stuff was a pleasure to use. The removal also impressed me, it was also quick and clean. I am mentioning this product in case you don't know it exists. I would also be interested in comments from those who have used it. I don't know how long it has been on the market, so I am also interested in longevity. Here is the information from the TESSCO Web Site. The TESSCO number is 360590. 73 JIM KA2AJH Transmission Line Accessories Weatherproofing [436-65] RFS C-Tape An innovative alternative to traditional butyl rubber sealant tapes. CELL-Tape (C-Tape) weather sealant and marking tape is made of clean, self-adhesive silicone that fuses firmly to produce UV-protected air- and water-tight bonds, all via an easy-on/easy-off mess-free application. Multiple color options for easy tower-top cable identification are available. CELL-Tape can elongate by three hundred percent, stretching tight budgets as well as delivering tight protection. * Self-adhesive silicone fuses for an air water-tight seal. * 1 kits contain two 15' rolls. * 2 kits contain one 15' roll. Product Details for 360590
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Feedline Connector Sealant Tape
A cell phone Tower Tech. gave me some Cell-Tape (C-Tape) for weather proofing connectors. I used some tonight on a connector and compared to Coax Seal or #33 Tape and 3M Sealant this stuff was a pleasure to use. The removal also impressed me, it was also quick and clean. I am mentioning this product in case you don't know it exists. I would also be interested in comments from those who have used it. I don't know how long it has been on the market, so I am also interested in longevity. Here is the information from the TESSCO Web Site. The TESSCO number is 360590. The silicone tape is available from Times Microwave, Andrew and a few others. I've been a very tried and true 3M rubber tape, 3M scotchkote and 3M #33 tape guy for many years. However, I've started using this silicone tape recently and am likewise very impressed. I usually make two complete layers, each one covering half of the previous wrap. One slice with a razor knife and it comes off, at that point I defy anyone to separate those pieces of tape, they have 'melted' into one solid, tight silicone seal. Just for safety I put some 33 over it to make sure it is protected and doesn't come loose. Excellent stuff thus far...but then again, it's summer :) 73
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Feedline Connector Sealant Tape
I use quite a lot of Nitto brand tape , it works well here in Queensland Australia through 42 C deg and the odd cyclone year after year To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 22:00:58 -0700 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Feedline Connector Sealant Tape A cell phone Tower Tech. gave me some Cell-Tape (C-Tape) for weather proofing connectors. I used some tonight on a connector and compared to Coax Seal or #33 Tape and 3M Sealant this stuff was a pleasure to use. The removal also impressed me, it was also quick and clean. I am mentioning this product in case you don't know it exists. I would also be interested in comments from those who have used it. I don't know how long it has been on the market, so I am also interested in longevity. Here is the information from the TESSCO Web Site. The TESSCO number is 360590. The silicone tape is available from Times Microwave, Andrew and a few others. I've been a very tried and true 3M rubber tape, 3M scotchkote and 3M #33 tape guy for many years. However, I've started using this silicone tape recently and am likewise very impressed. I usually make two complete layers, each one covering half of the previous wrap. One slice with a razor knife and it comes off, at that point I defy anyone to separate those pieces of tape, they have 'melted' into one solid, tight silicone seal. Just for safety I put some 33 over it to make sure it is protected and doesn't come loose. Excellent stuff thus far...but then again, it's summer :) 73 _ Search for local singles online @ Lavalife - Click here http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Flavalife9%2Eninemsn%2Ecom%2Eau%2Fclickthru%2Fclickthru%2Eact%3Fid%3Dninemsn%26context%3Dan99%26locale%3Den%5FAU%26a%3D30290_t=764581033_r=email_taglines_Search_OCT07_m=EXT
