[Repeater-Builder] Triplett 630 Multimeter
Triplett 630 Multimeter I came across the manual for the Triplett 630 Analogue Multimeter on the Internet in PDF format, and if anyone needs it I can send it to them. It's about 30 pages if you print it. John VE3AMZ
[Repeater-Builder] Zetron controller info needed
Happy new year to all on the group! Recently my organisation inherited a large amount of model 49 LTR controllers and the associated Model 2540 FASTnet Switch. I am hoping that some kind individual has a copy of any relevant technical information/manuals or software that they could supply me as the original documentation was lost ages ago when the original operator ceased trading. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Best Regards and thanks for reading. Gareth Bennett (Technical Services) Signals NZ Ltd 8 Manor Place P.O. Box 1439 Dunedin 9015 New Zealand Phone : 03 425-0895(64 3 425-0895) Fax : 03 474-5251(64 3 474-5251) Mobile : 027 458-8377 (64 27 458-8377) Email : gare...@signals.net.nz Web: www.signals.net.nz Note: This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and any copies of it from your system, and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. LFT Group Ltd reserves the right to monitor ALL e-mail communications through its networks. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorised
[Repeater-Builder] Need used 2M duplexer
I am in a need 4 unit used/refurbish 2M bpbr duplexer of any brands ship to Malaysia. contact me 9w2www [a] gmail dot com
[Repeater-Builder] Transmitter fingerprinting?
I searched the archives, and did not see this issue addressed. Please forgive me if this has been covered before. Is there anyone here utilizing any form of transmitter fingerprinting software and/or hardware to identify sources of interference, either intentional or otherwise? Can you please provide me with an explanation of just how you are accomplishing this? Your experience and expertise would be greatly appreciated! Thank you! 73 William J. (Jim) Wickstrom, W1IK/NNN0AHC Technical Director, Utica/Shelby Emergency Communication Association (USECA) w1ikatarrldotnet mailto:w...@arrl.net www.usecaarc.com http://www.usecaarc.com/
[Repeater-Builder] motorola repeater cable problem
I have two Motorola sm50 mobiles using a repeater cable that goes between the two at the option plug in the back. I have tried every configuration two get this to work with no results. Before I condem the cable I got off ebay does anyone know of any mods or settings that need to be done to get this simplex repeater up and running. I have confirmed the radio operation itself and they are good to go.
[Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
Having issues converting over to digital TV. My father volunteered my services to a few of his friends, all serious seniors, Detroit market, As an elecronic wizard (my dad's words) I should be able to make anything with wires work well. Most converter boxes I tried took forever to scan, channels missing, analog TV worked great. Most of the seniors already had their free box, obtained with the converter box coupon. Only boxes I have found so far that seem to work very well are the DigitalStream Zenith pass thru boxes, scan quickly, best picture on rabbit ears. Cost more, but worth the price. Below is a message from another user group, also detailing the frustration in switching over to digital. CJD --- In l...@yahoogroups.com, BB beazer...@... wrote: I went out to the home of an elderly couple having problem hooking up their converter boxes. When I arrived, the man had set up the boxes correctly. His problem - he was missing half of the stations he had before! I ran the scan about 10 times. Each time it found different stations. But very few of the UHF channels from Phx. According to www.antennaweb.org - he should be able to get them all - plus some of the Tucson stations. He's getting the Tucson ones that are 70 miles away, but not the Phoenix ones that are 30 miles away. He's using an indoor set top antenna, the kind with the built in amplifier. We tried different settings without much change. Weather conditions at the time - rain. I've noticed at my house when it rains, some channels have severe pixelation. With the converter turned off, he gets all the Phoenix stations analog signals just fine on that indoor antenna. But going through the converter, he's missing a few of the incidental ones...ABC, UPN...ION. Needless to say, he isn't too happy. It looks like unless we can come up with a better option - he needs to call DISH. If Congress wants to talk to an average consumer about what they think of digital television - he'd give them an earful! Any ideas? Bea Lueck
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
I've got a different problem - 1) the folks that had this mobile home before me burned this address as far as the coupon database is concerned (I can't get coupons at this address). 2) They won't send them to a PO box. 3) The post office forwards my old address, but I can't use it - the envelopes have a DO NOT FORWARD stamp on them. 4) I can't use my work address, as the address database knows that it's a business. 5) All of my friends are getting boxes using their addresses - they want the extra box for hacking purposes (nobody has a spare coupon). 6) According to the NAB SmartBrief newsletter for January 6, 2009 the coupon folks have run out of DTV coupons and have started a waiting list. As of Sunday, the U.S. government had run out of the $40 coupons that can be used to buy converter boxes for the DTV transition. A huge spike in requests in December -- when the government anticipated about 4 million requests but received 7.2 million -- now means new coupon-seekers have to be put on a waiting list. According to a report in National Journal's CongressDaily, the coupon shortfall stems from NTIA's reliance on estimates from the Consumer Electronics Association and Nielsen Media Research, as opposed to the higher estimate made by NAB. For info on the National Association of Broadcasters SmartBrief see http://www.smartbrief.com/nab Anybody else have suggestions / recommendations / warnings about what brand of box to buy or to avoid ? Mike WA6ILQ At 12:21 PM 01/05/09, you wrote: Having issues converting over to digital TV. My father volunteered my services to a few of his friends, all serious seniors, Detroit market, As an elecronic wizard (my dad's words) I should be able to make anything with wires work well. Most converter boxes I tried took forever to scan, channels missing, analog TV worked great. Most of the seniors already had their free box, obtained with the converter box coupon. Only boxes I have found so far that seem to work very well are the DigitalStream Zenith pass thru boxes, scan quickly, best picture on rabbit ears. Cost more, but worth the price. Below is a message from another user group, also detailing the frustration in switching over to digital. CJD --- In mailto:lptv%40yahoogroups.coml...@yahoogroups.com, BB beazer...@... wrote: I went out to the home of an elderly couple having problem hooking up their converter boxes. When I arrived, the man had set up the boxes correctly. His problem - he was missing half of the stations he had before! I ran the scan about 10 times. Each time it found different stations. But very few of the UHF channels from Phx. According to www.antennaweb.org - he should be able to get them all - plus some of the Tucson stations. He's getting the Tucson ones that are 70 miles away, but not the Phoenix ones that are 30 miles away. He's using an indoor set top antenna, the kind with the built in amplifier. We tried different settings without much change. Weather conditions at the time - rain. I've noticed at my house when it rains, some channels have severe pixelation. With the converter turned off, he gets all the Phoenix stations analog signals just fine on that indoor antenna. But going through the converter, he's missing a few of the incidental ones...ABC, UPN...ION. Needless to say, he isn't too happy. It looks like unless we can come up with a better option - he needs to call DISH. If Congress wants to talk to an average consumer about what they think of digital television - he'd give them an earful! Any ideas? Bea Lueck
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola repeater cable problem
At 06:30 AM 01/06/09, you wrote: I have two Motorola sm50 mobiles using a repeater cable that goes between the two at the option plug in the back. I have tried every configuration two get this to work with no results. Before I condem the cable I got off ebay does anyone know of any mods or settings that need to be done to get this simplex repeater up and running. I have confirmed the radio operation itself and they are good to go. Ask the seller what pinout the cable expects, ESPECIALLY for COR ! Then make sure the radio is programmed to match. I've been in contact with a half-dozen folks via private email over the last few months and EVERY single one has been because COR was on the wrong pin. COR can be on any one pin of these: 4, 8, 12 or 14. See the tables on this web page: http://www.repeater-builder.com/maxtrac/maxtrac-option-plug.html Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Site Generator - First 09 War Story
I was waiting for you to mention the inevitable phone message waiting for you 23 hours later that tells you about the repeat/disable switch you forgot to throw as you walked out the door... What brand genset chewed up its gear? Bob M. == --- On Wed, 1/7/09, skipp025 skipp...@yahoo.com wrote: From: skipp025 skipp...@yahoo.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Site Generator - First 09 War Story To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 7:05 PM Jan. 2009 Site Generator - War Story Well... the first train wreck of 09 hit early in the calendar year. A critical care customer reports a serious problem... off we go to the super remote solar propane radio site. We arrive to find everything looking just peachy... but since it's a 5 hour drive we figure to check every detail and do regular maintenance anyway. Move around some cable to find a one repeater cuts in and out... oh my god, the feed line is *^#$%@ LMR-400 from the original site owner. Out it goes and everything quiets down, life is good once again. Or so we thought... Packed up ready to leave... let's do one last generator test. Switch on to hear a really bad sounding metal on metal grinding noise... quick switched off. Let me give the short version... Genset (generator engine) starter removed to see the most of the flywheel ring gear missing. The grinding noise was the starter chipping teeth off the flywheel ring gear. Bad, very, very bad... Dark clouds form in my head while I/we try to figure out how to fix this remote mountain site cluster #...@%. We resign ourselves to at least get the major pull-down part of the repair started, then think about how to allocate resources and dive into pulling the genset apart. Much to our surprise... we properly unbolted 10,000 items to end up with the flywheel in our hands 3 hours later. Down the mountain to the nearest, largest nearby town where we quickly relearn how nothing happens or moves fast in Hooterville. So I ask and find a local full-service machine shop and off we go. The appended version is the machine shop did a fix to the ring gear and repressed it on the flywheel while we ate a late lunch. I had a RB sandwich with fries... and Ice Tea of course. Picked up the beast (repaired flywheel) and off we went back to the site... Another 2 hours or so to reinstall the flywheel and restore the unit. Big smile as I hit the switch to hear the engine cleanly roar to life every time. Down the mountain we go... dirty, mangy and might unclean but no longer wanted men (sorry to those of you who get the AC/DC reference). Forget the decafe coffee, stocked up with 20oz French Roast (light cream), snacks, a recently renewed XM-Radio subscription and start the long drive home. Walked back in the shop door some 23 hours after we left... So, how was your day? cheers, skipp skipp025 at yahoo.com www.radiowrench.com
Re: [Repeater-Builder] motorola repeater cable problem
Dan, From your message I am guessing that you are trying to set up a crossband repeater from VHF to UHF. Otherwise you will need to explain 2 mobiles and a simplex repeater. The rear 16 pin connectors have some pins that are fixed in function (mic audio, PTT, Gnd) and some that are assigned via software (type of audio output, indication of valid PL/DPL/carrier detection). The switching functions must be configured to be active atthe proper level (High or Low). Both radios will need to be properly configured. The configuration of the cable must be bi-directional; it must pass the COS, PTT, and audio signals in both directions, GND is comman between both units. Without the proper equipment and software to program the radios and documentation of the radio and the cable it's going to be rather hard to get things properly set up. Milt N3LTQ - Original Message - From: dan d dwd71...@yahoo.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 9:30 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] motorola repeater cable problem I have two Motorola sm50 mobiles using a repeater cable that goes between the two at the option plug in the back. I have tried every configuration two get this to work with no results. Before I condem the cable I got off ebay does anyone know of any mods or settings that need to be done to get this simplex repeater up and running. I have confirmed the radio operation itself and they are good to go. Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Triplett 630 Multimeter
John, Is it possible to post the link to the group? That way anyone can go and find the site. If not my address is below. Milt N3LTQ n3...@yahoo.com - Original Message - From: John J. Riddell To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 4:56 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Triplett 630 Multimeter Triplett 630 Multimeter I came across the manual for the Triplett 630 Analogue Multimeter on the Internet in PDF format, and if anyone needs it I can send it to them. It's about 30 pages if you print it. John VE3AMZ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
On Thu, 8 Jan 2009, Mike Morris WA6ILQ wrote: 3) The post office forwards my old address, but I can't use it - the envelopes have a DO NOT FORWARD stamp on them. Call your congresscritter, or better yet -- arrange a visit to his office. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR k...@catonic.us But remember, with no superpowers comes no responsibility. --rly
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
I have the same problem here outside of the Chicago area... for reference, I'm about 60 mi SW of Chicago. I have three converters installed in my home to prepare for the transition - they are on TVs in non-critical areas, i.e., bedrooms, kids rooms, etc. I have DirecTV for the primary TV sets (basement and family room). Anyway, the picture I receive via antenna is acceptable - there is some snow, but the picture is perfectly viewable. However, the converter boxes seem to have less RX sensitivity, or something. I can only get a fraction of channels available, and sometimes more channels than other times - for example, the local NBC affiliate worked fine Tuesday night (we watched Leno) but last night there was a LOT of digital artifacts and the audio was terrible... Picture had artifacts also. For what it's worth, there is an overlay available that works with Google Earth that will graphically show you the available coverage of any TV station. For the Chicago market, I find I'm on the fringe (unfortunately, I live in a river valley, which also affects my reception) so I need to do something with my antenna. For years, I've had it in the attic with no problem, but now it looks like it's going to have to go out - either on the roof, or on the tower. I have not checked to see if the newer digital TV transmitters are operating at lower power levels than their analog counterparts, but I wonder if this could be one reason for my experiences. And of course, we're going to transition in February - not the best time of the year to be climbing towers. (Hey FCC - why not transition in June when the weather is much more conducive to tower activities? Ah-h-h, government at work... Gotta love it.) Good luck! Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of TRACOMM Having issues converting over to digital TV. My father volunteered my services to a few of his friends, all serious seniors, Detroit market, As an elecronic wizard (my dad's words) I should be able to make anything with wires work well. Most converter boxes I tried took forever to scan, channels missing, analog TV worked great. Most of the seniors already had their free box, obtained with the converter box coupon. Only boxes I have found so far that seem to work very well are the DigitalStream Zenith pass thru boxes, scan quickly, best picture on rabbit ears. Cost more, but worth the price. Below is a message from another user group, also detailing the frustration in switching over to digital. CJD --- In l...@yahoogroups.com, BB beazer...@... wrote: I went out to the home of an elderly couple having problem hooking up their converter boxes. When I arrived, the man had set up the boxes correctly. His problem - he was missing half of the stations he had before! I ran the scan about 10 times. Each time it found different stations. But very few of the UHF channels from Phx. According to www.antennaweb.org - he should be able to get them all - plus some of the Tucson stations. He's getting the Tucson ones that are 70 miles away, but not the Phoenix ones that are 30 miles away. He's using an indoor set top antenna, the kind with the built in amplifier. We tried different settings without much change. Weather conditions at the time - rain. I've noticed at my house when it rains, some channels have severe pixelation. With the converter turned off, he gets all the Phoenix stations analog signals just fine on that indoor antenna. But going through the converter, he's missing a few of the incidental ones...ABC, UPN...ION. Needless to say, he isn't too happy. It looks like unless we can come up with a better option - he needs to call DISH. If Congress wants to talk to an average consumer about what they think of digital television - he'd give them an earful! Any ideas? Bea Lueck
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
Mike, I know of a couple of people who were able to get around the address issue by adding Apartment 2 to the address, and using a different name (like a daughter, son, etc.). Now it looks like a multiple occupancy rather than a single-family home. But since the government is either out of, or running WAY behind on distributing coupons, this may be a moot point. I only have one brand here (Magnavox) and it doesn't work well, IMHO. I bought the Magnavox because it allows signal pass-through - most of the boxes for sale do NOT. Of course, that won't be an issue after February, since there will be no analog signal that you'd want to pass through anyway, but in the meantime. It was mainly so I could test, and the results I've seen are not impressive. Like I stated in an earlier message, I feel the receiver leaves a lot to be desired, sensitivity-wise. (Unless the transmitters are operating at a lower power.) The boxes seem to need a LOT of signal in order to decode properly. Mark - N9WYS From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Morris WA6ILQ I've got a different problem - 1) the folks that had this mobile home before me burned this address as far as the coupon database is concerned (I can't get coupons at this address). 2) They won't send them to a PO box. 3) The post office forwards my old address, but I can't use it - the envelopes have a DO NOT FORWARD stamp on them. 4) I can't use my work address, as the address database knows that it's a business. 5) All of my friends are getting boxes using their addresses - they want the extra box for hacking purposes (nobody has a spare coupon). 6) According to the NAB SmartBrief newsletter for January 6, 2009 the coupon folks have run out of DTV coupons and have started a waiting list. As of Sunday, the U.S. government had run out of the $40 coupons that can be used to buy converter boxes for the DTV transition. A huge spike in requests in December -- when the government anticipated about 4 million requests but received 7.2 million -- now means new coupon-seekers have to be put on a waiting list. According to a report in National Journal's CongressDaily, the coupon shortfall stems from NTIA's reliance on estimates from the Consumer Electronics Association and Nielsen Media Research, as opposed to the higher estimate made by NAB. For info on the National Association of Broadcasters SmartBrief see http://www.smartbrief.com/nab http://www.smartbrief.com/nab Anybody else have suggestions / recommendations / warnings about what brand of box to buy or to avoid ? Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
I'm using the Magnavox converter. Compared to my HDTV, I'd say that reception is the same, only that the converter changes channels a lot faster than the tuner in the TV. Actually the converter has a longer run of coax than the TV. Chuck - Original Message - From: Mark To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 9:55 AM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues Mike, I know of a couple of people who were able to get around the address issue by adding Apartment 2 to the address, and using a different name (like a daughter, son, etc.). Now it looks like a multiple occupancy rather than a single-family home. But since the government is either out of, or running WAY behind on distributing coupons, this may be a moot point. I only have one brand here (Magnavox) and it doesn't work well, IMHO. I bought the Magnavox because it allows signal pass-through - most of the boxes for sale do NOT. Of course, that won't be an issue after February, since there will be no analog signal that you'd want to pass through anyway, but in the meantime. It was mainly so I could test, and the results I've seen are not impressive. Like I stated in an earlier message, I feel the receiver leaves a lot to be desired, sensitivity-wise. (Unless the transmitters are operating at a lower power.) The boxes seem to need a LOT of signal in order to decode properly. Mark - N9WYS
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
Try this site. It's not perfect, but will give you an idea. I find cased where it says I'm well within range and I can't get the channels and some where it says I shouldn't and do. http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/ Keep in mind than a lot of stations have gone from VHF to UHF in the process. Chuck - Original Message - From: Mark n9...@ameritech.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 9:45 AM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues I have the same problem here outside of the Chicago area... for reference, I'm about 60 mi SW of Chicago. I have three converters installed in my home to prepare for the transition - they are on TVs in non-critical areas, i.e., bedrooms, kids rooms, etc. I have DirecTV for the primary TV sets (basement and family room). Anyway, the picture I receive via antenna is acceptable - there is some snow, but the picture is perfectly viewable. However, the converter boxes seem to have less RX sensitivity, or something. I can only get a fraction of channels available, and sometimes more channels than other times - for example, the local NBC affiliate worked fine Tuesday night (we watched Leno) but last night there was a LOT of digital artifacts and the audio was terrible... Picture had artifacts also. For what it's worth, there is an overlay available that works with Google Earth that will graphically show you the available coverage of any TV station. For the Chicago market, I find I'm on the fringe (unfortunately, I live in a river valley, which also affects my reception) so I need to do something with my antenna. For years, I've had it in the attic with no problem, but now it looks like it's going to have to go out - either on the roof, or on the tower. I have not checked to see if the newer digital TV transmitters are operating at lower power levels than their analog counterparts, but I wonder if this could be one reason for my experiences. And of course, we're going to transition in February - not the best time of the year to be climbing towers. (Hey FCC - why not transition in June when the weather is much more conducive to tower activities? Ah-h-h, government at work... Gotta love it.) Good luck! Mark - N9WYS
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
Mike, The Echostar PAL unit has a good electronic program guide. A friend of mine has a problem with the unit locking up sometimes. (Could just be his) The best unit as far as sensitivity goes, seems to be the Channel Master CM-7000. It also has an S-Video output that the others lack. The cheapest place I have found to get a CM-7000 is Stark Electronics. Nice people to deal with. http://www.starkelectronic.com/cm7000.htm There have been many discussions about the converter boxes at www.avsforums.com Good Luck John At 06:49 AM 1/8/2009, you wrote: I've got a different problem - 1) the folks that had this mobile home before me burned this address as far as the coupon database is concerned (I can't get coupons at this address). 2) They won't send them to a PO box. 3) The post office forwards my old address, but I can't use it - the envelopes have a DO NOT FORWARD stamp on them. 4) I can't use my work address, as the address database knows that it's a business. 5) All of my friends are getting boxes using their addresses - they want the extra box for hacking purposes (nobody has a spare coupon). 6) According to the NAB SmartBrief newsletter for January 6, 2009 the coupon folks have run out of DTV coupons and have started a waiting list. As of Sunday, the U.S. government had run out of the $40 coupons that can be used to buy converter boxes for the DTV transition. A huge spike in requests in December -- when the government anticipated about 4 million requests but received 7.2 million -- now means new coupon-seekers have to be put on a waiting list. According to a report in National Journal's CongressDaily, the coupon shortfall stems from NTIA's reliance on estimates from the Consumer Electronics Association and Nielsen Media Research, as opposed to the higher estimate made by NAB. For info on the National Association of Broadcasters SmartBrief see http://www.smartbrief.com/nab Anybody else have suggestions / recommendations / warnings about what brand of box to buy or to avoid ? Mike WA6ILQ At 12:21 PM 01/05/09, you wrote: Having issues converting over to digital TV. My father volunteered my services to a few of his friends, all serious seniors, Detroit market, As an elecronic wizard (my dad's words) I should be able to make anything with wires work well. Most converter boxes I tried took forever to scan, channels missing, analog TV worked great. Most of the seniors already had their free box, obtained with the converter box coupon. Only boxes I have found so far that seem to work very well are the DigitalStream Zenith pass thru boxes, scan quickly, best picture on rabbit ears. Cost more, but worth the price. Below is a message from another user group, also detailing the frustration in switching over to digital. CJD --- In mailto:lptv%40yahoogroups.coml...@yahoogroups.com, BB beazer...@... wrote: I went out to the home of an elderly couple having problem hooking up their converter boxes. When I arrived, the man had set up the boxes correctly. His problem - he was missing half of the stations he had before! I ran the scan about 10 times. Each time it found different stations. But very few of the UHF channels from Phx. According to www.antennaweb.org - he should be able to get them all - plus some of the Tucson stations. He's getting the Tucson ones that are 70 miles away, but not the Phoenix ones that are 30 miles away. He's using an indoor set top antenna, the kind with the built in amplifier. We tried different settings without much change. Weather conditions at the time - rain. I've noticed at my house when it rains, some channels have severe pixelation. With the converter turned off, he gets all the Phoenix stations analog signals just fine on that indoor antenna. But going through the converter, he's missing a few of the incidental ones...ABC, UPN...ION. Needless to say, he isn't too happy. It looks like unless we can come up with a better option - he needs to call DISH. If Congress wants to talk to an average consumer about what they think of digital television - he'd give them an earful! Any ideas? Bea Lueck
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
The bain of my existance the last few weeks.DTV. Several Points of order: DTV Myths, Comments, QA: I hear once a day: DTV doesn't work as good as analog. My Response (based on experience): Does not work as good is from a point of view. The fact is DTV is more effiecnt, the stations are typically running a fraction of the output power and achieving the same footprint of coverage. It takes far less signal to noise to pull out a clear, high quality picture than it does with analog. Can you make out an analog station with a ton of snow, lines, sparkles, etc when you might not pull in a DTV Station? Sure! Do you enjoy watching a crappy picture? Do you like to listen to the guy on his flea power portable noisy into the repeater or the guy on a good mobile who is full quieting? I hear once a day: The antenna in my attic/ my old antenna system does not get the DTV stations that I get in analog. My Response: Well, this is a technical group with a high level of RF knowledge. How well does your 440 antenna (or any band) work in the attic compared to on your roof or tower? There is some implied responsibility on the part of the end user to ensure that their equipment is optimized for the best performance. That being said, I have many many clients with antennas in the attic that work just fine. What I do find to be the typical problem is that most people with antennas in their attics have an amplifier installed to make up for being in the attic. I'm sorry to say that the $15-20 amplifier you pick up at the hardware store sucks, to prove that just bench test it on your specturm analyzer look at a DTV signal. They typically distort the waveform badly and that is more common a problem why you can't tune the DTV station. I have pulled those from an antenna system that were receiving analog but not digital. Once out of the system, while the analog was virtually unwatchable now (which the amp had boosted enough to tolerate), the DTV signal suddenly came thru with flying colors! Would you put a crappy preamp on your repeater receiver? I hear once a day: My converter box does not seem as sensitive as my new DTV set in the other room. My Response: Let's use some common sense here. The government mandated that the LOWEST COST possible converter boxes be made available for people to convert their OLD analog TV's. The bottom line: You get what you pay for. Was not that long ago a wise jedi master here on RB posted findings on PL circuits in radios with his test equipment and found that the cheaper radios did a poorer job. Your $50 converter box is not going to have as good of DTV tuner in it as your new $5000 Sony HDTV. This difference existed in analog tuners as well. Nuff said. *A side note: We have found that there are huge differences in converter boxes. For what it is worth the Zenith model seems to be one of the best, in case your shopping. I would stay away from brands you have never heard of at the big box stores. I hear every day now: The government screwed up is running out of money for the program. My Response: We knew 3 years ago they only had so much money set aside for this. What did everyone think would happen? There are a ton of unclaimed cards out there right now, and as they expire they will put that money back in the pot. However, it was always first come, first serve, and the government should not be there forever to make sure you can still use your dads 40 year RCA TV. And, it's $50-70 for a typical converter box. Holy cow. If the $40 coupon makes the difference for you of eating or not that week, I think TV should be less of a priority for you. (Sorry for the social commentary) I hear every day now (This one is yours Mark;) ): Leave it to the government to make the change in Feb instead of June. My response: If I remember correctly the orignal cutoff date was in a June, but the lawyers fought fought and got extension after extension. DTV has been around for 3-4 years now in most markets, and we have known this date was coming for roughly the same time. It's like high school: we knew for 2 weeks our paper was due, but still blamed the teacher when we were really tired on the due date because we stayed up really late the night before doing the paper. ;) Finally- I cannot speak for all the markets out there, but here in Chicago the DTV stations for the most part are at their full licensed power now, only changes left to come are some channel re-assignments when the switch happens. So go to work on your antenna that has been up for 30 years and get it in shape again! Tom W9SRV
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
Tom, Did we all hit a nerve?? Hehehehe Regarding the February changeover date - the FCC could still have set another date in June 2009 (or April for that matter - anytime when the weather in 2/3 of the country was a bit more tolerable) but *chose* not to do so. I deal with government on a daily basis in my primary job, so I know that a LOT of times there is no rhyme or reason as to what dates are set for anything - other than there was a blank spot on a calendar somewhere... Also, DTV may have been around for 2 -3 years, but until late last year, I was unable to find converter boxes that I wanted (with pass-through) locally - so I ended up going online to get the ones I own. Availability also needs to be figured into the equation - and I'll accept *some* responsibility for not beginning to prepare early enough - but the supply side also needs to be considered. I understand that you're in the business, and as you stated - it has been the Bain of your existence lately. Maybe a little less caffeine, or a little more Jack Daniels will help you cope. (All in jest!!) I do like the suggestion about the pre-amp - I may give that a try this afternoon (if it isn't too cold in my attic!) and I'll report my results. (BTW - mine is not a hardware store variety, it's a Winegard that I spent probably $70 on about three years ago.) Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of TGundo 2003 The bain of my existance the last few weeks.DTV. Several Points of order: DTV Myths, Comments, QA: I hear once a day: DTV doesn't work as good as analog. My Response (based on experience): Does not work as good is from a point of view. The fact is DTV is more effiecnt, the stations are typically running a fraction of the output power and achieving the same footprint of coverage. It takes far less signal to noise to pull out a clear, high quality picture than it does with analog. Can you make out an analog station with a ton of snow, lines, sparkles, etc when you might not pull in a DTV Station? Sure! Do you enjoy watching a crappy picture? Do you like to listen to the guy on his flea power portable noisy into the repeater or the guy on a good mobile who is full quieting? I hear once a day: The antenna in my attic/ my old antenna system does not get the DTV stations that I get in analog. My Response: Well, this is a technical group with a high level of RF knowledge. How well does your 440 antenna (or any band) work in the attic compared to on your roof or tower? There is some implied responsibility on the part of the end user to ensure that their equipment is optimized for the best performance. That being said, I have many many clients with antennas in the attic that work just fine. What I do find to be the typical problem is that most people with antennas in their attics have an amplifier installed to make up for being in the attic. I'm sorry to say that the $15-20 amplifier you pick up at the hardware store sucks, to prove that just bench test it on your specturm analyzer look at a DTV signal. They typically distort the waveform badly and that is more common a problem why you can't tune the DTV station. I have pulled those from an antenna system that were receiving analog but not digital. Once out of the system, while the analog was virtually unwatchable now (which the amp had boosted enough to tolerate), the DTV signal suddenly came thru with flying colors! Would you put a crappy preamp on your repeater receiver? I hear once a day: My converter box does not seem as sensitive as my new DTV set in the other room. My Response: Let's use some common sense here. The government mandated that the LOWEST COST possible converter boxes be made available for people to convert their OLD analog TV's. The bottom line: You get what you pay for. Was not that long ago a wise jedi master here on RB posted findings on PL circuits in radios with his test equipment and found that the cheaper radios did a poorer job. Your $50 converter box is not going to have as good of DTV tuner in it as your new $5000 Sony HDTV. This difference existed in analog tuners as well. Nuff said. *A side note: We have found that there are huge differences in converter boxes. For what it is worth the Zenith model seems to be one of the best, in case your shopping. I would stay away from brands you have never heard of at the big box stores. I hear every day now: The government screwed up is running out of money for the program. My Response: We knew 3 years ago they only had so much money set aside for this. What did everyone think would happen? There are a ton of unclaimed cards out there right now, and as they expire they will put that money back in the pot. However, it was always first come, first serve, and the government should not be there forever to make sure you can still use your dads 40 year RCA TV. And, it's $50-70 for a typical converter box. Holy
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
The preamplifier I have improves the DTV reception despite the fact that it's a Radio Shack model (I'd had it kicking around for several years, new in the package). For what it's worth, every time the picture or sound breaks up, my wife says I hate this new TV. She could watch an analog picture way down in the snow and be perfectly happy. I hate a snowy picture, but must admit the digital artifacts are annoying too. Chuck - Original Message - From: Mark n9...@ameritech.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 11:02 AM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues I do like the suggestion about the pre-amp - I may give that a try this afternoon (if it isn't too cold in my attic!) and I'll report my results. (BTW - mine is not a hardware store variety, it's a Winegard that I spent probably $70 on about three years ago.)
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
My application for a converter box coupon was rejected saying that there were no more coupons available. 73 - Jim W5ZIT --- On Mon, 1/5/09, TRACOMM trac...@yahoo.com wrote: From: TRACOMM trac...@yahoo.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, January 5, 2009, 2:21 PM Having issues converting over to digital TV. My father volunteered my services to a few of his friends, all serious seniors, Detroit market, As an elecronic wizard (my dad's words) I should be able to make anything with wires work well. Most converter boxes I tried took forever to scan, channels missing, analog TV worked great. Most of the seniors already had their free box, obtained with the converter box coupon. Only boxes I have found so far that seem to work very well are the DigitalStream Zenith pass thru boxes, scan quickly, best picture on rabbit ears. Cost more, but worth the price. Below is a message from another user group, also detailing the frustration in switching over to digital. CJD --- In l...@yahoogroups. com, BB beazer...@. .. wrote: I went out to the home of an elderly couple having problem hooking up their converter boxes. When I arrived, the man had set up the boxes correctly. His problem - he was missing half of the stations he had before! I ran the scan about 10 times. Each time it found different stations. But very few of the UHF channels from Phx. According to www.antennaweb. org - he should be able to get them all - plus some of the Tucson stations. He's getting the Tucson ones that are 70 miles away, but not the Phoenix ones that are 30 miles away. He's using an indoor set top antenna, the kind with the built in amplifier. We tried different settings without much change. Weather conditions at the time - rain. I've noticed at my house when it rains, some channels have severe pixelation. With the converter turned off, he gets all the Phoenix stations analog signals just fine on that indoor antenna. But going through the converter, he's missing a few of the incidental ones...ABC, UPN...ION. Needless to say, he isn't too happy. It looks like unless we can come up with a better option - he needs to call DISH. If Congress wants to talk to an average consumer about what they think of digital television - he'd give them an earful! Any ideas? Bea Lueck
Re: [Repeater-Builder] motorola repeater cable problem
I hooked a pair of GM-300s together for a friend who bought a cable off the internet, and it worked just fine. All I had to do was set the level for deviation with the pot mounted on the board that also mounts the radio connector. The cable he got would cross-band repeat, meaning that it would transmit and receive on both radios, taking audio and key from one radio to key the other. All I had to do was have one radio programmed for the repeater input frequency and leave off the transmit frequency. The other radio was programmed for both transmit and receive. The receive frequency for the second radio was programmed to an unused frequency. The first radio gives a couple of beeps when you turn it on indicating an error in the programming (probably since the transmit frequency is not properly programmed). The repeater functions just fine this way. The cable does not provide for any squelch tail delay, but other than that - it sounds like a normal repeater. 73 - Jim W5ZIT --- On Tue, 1/6/09, dan d dwd71...@yahoo.com wrote: From: dan d dwd71...@yahoo.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] motorola repeater cable problem To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 8:30 AM I have two Motorola sm50 mobiles using a repeater cable that goes between the two at the option plug in the back. I have tried every configuration two get this to work with no results. Before I condem the cable I got off ebay does anyone know of any mods or settings that need to be done to get this simplex repeater up and running. I have confirmed the radio operation itself and they are good to go.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Transmitter fingerprinting?
K3RFI - the ARRL power line noise guru - visited my shack three different times and showed me how he fingerprints power line noise sources. When you have arcs from metal parts not directly in contact, the arc starts and quenches several times for each positive and negative peak on the power line. Counting the number of pulses for each source on a scope hooked to an AM detector at the frequency of interest will give the fingerprint for that noise source. Taking this fingerprint to a suspect pole and tuning a receiver to the 150 mHz area to a quiet channel will allow pinpointing the exact location of the hardware arc. The noise can then be investigated using an ultra-sound detector mounted to the end of a hollow fiberglass pole with the detector on the top end and a speaker coupled to the hollow pole. The audio down converter will take a 50 kHz noise source down to the audio frequencies. The 50 kHz detector is sensitive enough for you to rub your fingers together with the input pointed at your fingers from across a room and hear the swish-swish of your fingers rubbing. I have seen this detector used to find numerous bad insulators and when replaced you would find carbon trails down the sides of the insulators where arcs had been supported. In my HF noise case, it was determined that I had in excess of 30 noise sources and the advice I got from K3RFI and the ARRL was to just move to a different location. This was after the FCC had notified the power company to eliminate the noise generated by the power line. 73 - Jim W5ZIT --- On Wed, 1/7/09, w1ik w...@arrl.net wrote: From: w1ik w...@arrl.net Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Transmitter fingerprinting? To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 3:57 PM I searched the archives, and did not see this issue addressed. Please forgive me if this has been covered before. Is there anyone here utilizing any form of transmitter fingerprinting software and/or hardware to identify sources of interference, either intentional or otherwise? Can you please provide me with an explanation of just how you are accomplishing this? Your experience and expertise would be greatly appreciated! Thank you! 73 William J. (Jim) Wickstrom, W1IK/NNN0AHC Technical Director, Utica/Shelby Emergency Communication Association (USECA) w1ikatarrldotnet www.usecaarc. com
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Site Generator - First 09 War Story
I'll see your genset woes and raise you 2 breaks in a sites power line. This is at KZKE-FM. In 1975 some idiot buried at least 4640 feet (measured with a GPS) of 00 gage aluminum. I should also mention that this is spliced together power pole drop line and was not meant to be buried. When the ground gets wet the weight shifts and rocks skin insulation off the line. The result is what can only be considered an electrical leak. Electricity conducts literally to ground. The result is the aluminum wire reverts back to alumina, a fine white powder based on bauxite that is a ceramic. The current conditions are text book classic for frozen tundra, But things have improved. Last week it was ankle deep snow in most places and knee deep in some. Now it is just mud. Mud, mud, sticky mud, mud in the water, do you understand that? I even found mud in sealed containers there was so much of it. We spent all day yesterday digging holes and still didn't find the break, and there are 2 different breaks by my reckoning. Station has been without power since Christmas. Pretty much my weekend is going to be shot. Planning on renting a Bobcat with a hoe and tracks. The ground is still too wet to efficiently dig with a shovel.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
I TRY not to respond to OT posts, but boy am I fed up with DTV! I could get all the high power analog stations in my market snow-free with a small rooftop antenna. No go with DTV so I've been incrementally upgrading. I now have a very large antenna residing at 70 feet on one of my towers. Now I can get SOME of the digital signals. I'm going to try a mast mounted amplifier as soon as I'm able to climb again (currently recovering from surgery). I've already tried several TVs with ATSC tuners and converter boxes. There is some variation, but none of them can get all the digital signals that theoretically should be available to me. According to the FCC and other resources, I should be getting all of the high power DTV stations. I have talked to engineers at two of the stations I'm having trouble getting. They both said more than likely I'm getting a too high bit error rate due to signal multipath with all the hills around here. They said it is proving to be an issue for some viewers, and suggested I try VERY large directional antennas and experiment with antenna bearings, but admitted I'd probably need several antennas, one for each DTV station I'm not yet getting. Aarrgh! But of course many DTV's and converter boxes can only add channels by auto search; there's no provision for adding channels manually. That pretty much rules out switching between multiple antennas, unless I got the timing just right while the TV was performing its channel search. I could combine several antennas, but then I'd probably have the high BER due to signal reflections again. Grrr! Oh, and some of the stations that were/are broadcasting analog on VHF now have temporary UHF DTV assignments (higher power than their analog VHF). Next month they will be switching digital broadcasts to their old VHF channel assignments. This will probably change what I'm able to get and not get yet again... this time in the middle of a Maine winter. Grrr! Thanks FCC, or whoever is to blame for this bit of idiocy. I will admit when it works, picture and sound quality is fantastic with DTV. Being able to get free OTA HDTV is nice too. Paul
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Site Generator - First 09 War Story
I have a buddy who lives in Maine and moved into a new house a couple of years ago. He lost power to the house back in the middle of the summer last year and determined that the problem was somewhere between his house and the power pole. He started digging up the line and got all the way to the middle of the street where he found the dirt he was digging up was still warm. (power had been off several hours by that time) The power junction in the middle of the street was where the fault was found. In his case he found that he was responsible for all the circuit all the way back to the distribution pole and had to bite the bullet and pay for a new line installation. I know that in my case in North Texas, the power company is responsible for the line all the way to my meter box, but in his case, this was not so. 73 - Jim W5ZIT --- On Thu, 1/8/09, DCFluX dcf...@gmail.com wrote: From: DCFluX dcf...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Site Generator - First 09 War Story To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 11:08 AM I'll see your genset woes and raise you 2 breaks in a sites power line. This is at KZKE-FM. In 1975 some idiot buried at least 4640 feet (measured with a GPS) of 00 gage aluminum. I should also mention that this is spliced together power pole drop line and was not meant to be buried. When the ground gets wet the weight shifts and rocks skin insulation off the line. The result is what can only be considered an electrical leak. Electricity conducts literally to ground. The result is the aluminum wire reverts back to alumina, a fine white powder based on bauxite that is a ceramic. The current conditions are text book classic for frozen tundra, But things have improved. Last week it was ankle deep snow in most places and knee deep in some. Now it is just mud. Mud, mud, sticky mud, mud in the water, do you understand that? I even found mud in sealed containers there was so much of it. We spent all day yesterday digging holes and still didn't find the break, and there are 2 different breaks by my reckoning. Station has been without power since Christmas. Pretty much my weekend is going to be shot. Planning on renting a Bobcat with a hoe and tracks. The ground is still too wet to efficiently dig with a shovel. __,___
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Site Generator - First 09 War Story
A lot of places customer is responsible for underground the entire way. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Jim Brown To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 12:35 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Site Generator - First 09 War Story I have a buddy who lives in Maine and moved into a new house a couple of years ago. He lost power to the house back in the middle of the summer last year and determined that the problem was somewhere between his house and the power pole. He started digging up the line and got all the way to the middle of the street where he found the dirt he was digging up was still warm. (power had been off several hours by that time) The power junction in the middle of the street was where the fault was found. In his case he found that he was responsible for all the circuit all the way back to the distribution pole and had to bite the bullet and pay for a new line installation. I know that in my case in North Texas, the power company is responsible for the line all the way to my meter box, but in his case, this was not so. 73 - Jim W5ZIT
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Triplett 630 Multimeter
I'd like a copy-- Many thanks-- Scott, N6NXI sc...@becklawfirm.com - Original Message - From: John J. Riddell To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 1:56 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Triplett 630 Multimeter Triplett 630 Multimeter I came across the manual for the Triplett 630 Analogue Multimeter on the Internet in PDF format, and if anyone needs it I can send it to them. It's about 30 pages if you print it. John VE3AMZ
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
Our company has a Radio show on Sundays now On WLS AM- which draws in a considerable audience, and I get forwarded all the OTA reception problems. Guess I don't like repeating myself. Sorry. What gets me riled up is all the mis-information. I am going to a potiential client this afternoon, a 6-building condo complex. People are not getting the DTV stations on the old in-house antenna system. Another company told these nice folks it was because they didn't have Digital capable amplifier in the system. Lots of stuff like that out there. Here is what I know- I have never been shut out of getting a DTV station we should be recieving. When there was a problem of any type one trip to the site with a spectrum analyzer let me determine the problem and fix it. Really easy to fix when you can see it. Most fixes are basic antenna system PROBLEMS. A handful were due to multipath, but we fixed them too. I'm sorry to hear if others are having such problems. If your on the fringe your on the fringe. Again, were all RF guys here so there should be some understanding about that. Mark- we all know about the RF black hole your near (some call it Joliet). On the fringe in a river valley. Tough nut to crack. On the flip side, I'm 45 miles from the city at home. My neighbor has a modest TV antenna on a 15 ft tower, pointed right into an evergreen tree. He does not get the analog stations well at all, but he pulls in all the digitals 100%. And your right about the equipment availibility not coming until late in the process, there were a bunch of people who got cards before the equipment was available and the cards expired. oops! In response to other posts since: Yes- break up due to momentary signal loss is probably more annoying than snow on analog. Guess there is a trade off for everything. I will live with occasional break-ups (which should be occasional) in trade for the better DTV picture. Cassette Tapes didn't skip either, I'll take a CD thank you. Not getting a Card- First I heard of a flat out rejection. The Govt. told us agents that they were going to put people on a waiting list. One more thing- sometimes break-ups or interruptions in broadcasts are on the TV stations end, in their equipment or their downlinks. Harder to tell these days where the problem lies with Digital. One overlooked item- I get many comments from clients about DTV on the fact that there is MORE TO WATCH! More efficent use of specturm again, More channels to watch in the same space. This is a good thing. Here in Chicago (as it probably is other places) I can change to two or three live weather radars on TV on the secondary channels. I'll take that and deal with the occasional break-ups. Finally, Free is the word. You get what you pay for. Then again- you pay for satellite cable can have break-up problems too in the digital world.;) My guess is that over time the tuners will get better, have better error correction (Less drop out issues) and we will all in a short order of time wonder why we ever liked analog.(Except in 2-way radio- down with digital! I'll keep my micor!) hi Hi;) I will stop posting on this topic now as the moderaterors are probably tired of it! Tom W9SRV PS Mark- had the Jack in my highly caffinated Coke last night! It does help. --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Mark n9...@ameritech.net wrote: From: Mark n9...@ameritech.net Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 10:02 AM Tom, Did we all hit a nerve?? Hehehehe Regarding the February changeover date - the FCC could still have set another date in June 2009 (or April for that matter - anytime when the weather in 2/3 of the country was a bit more tolerable) but *chose* not to do so. I deal with government on a daily basis in my primary job, so I know that a LOT of times there is no rhyme or reason as to what dates are set for anything - other than there was a blank spot on a calendar somewhere... Also, DTV may have been around for 2 -3 years, but until late last year, I was unable to find converter boxes that I wanted (with pass-through) locally - so I ended up going online to get the ones I own. Availability also needs to be figured into the equation - and I'll accept *some* responsibility for not beginning to prepare early enough - but the supply side also needs to be considered. I understand that you're in the business, and as you stated - it has been the Bain of your existence lately. Maybe a little less caffeine, or a little more Jack Daniels will help you cope. (All in jest!!) I do like the suggestion about the pre-amp - I may give that a try this afternoon (if it isn't too cold in my attic!) and I'll report my results. (BTW - mine is not a hardware store variety, it's a Winegard that I spent probably $70 on about three years ago.) Mark - N9WYS -Original Message-
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
My experience was exactly the opposite, Mark I'm about 25 miles due west of the Sears Tower, and although I have DirecTV on the main TV, I have a tuner card in the PC that I often use to record OTA shows while the satellite DVR is busy with other programs. With analog, channel 2 was very snowy, 5 was acceptable, 7, 9, 11 and all the UHF stations were fine. With the converter box on the same roof-mounted antenna, everything is beautiful, plus I picked up about 7 or 8 stations I didn't get at all with analog. I just have one of the Apex units from Best Buy... George, KA3HSW / WQGJ413 From: Mark n9...@ameritech.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 8, 2009 8:45:16 AM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues I have the same problem here outside of the Chicago area... for reference, I'm about 60 mi SW of Chicago. I have three converters installed in my home to prepare for the transition - they are on TVs in non-critical areas, i.e., bedrooms, kids rooms, etc. I have DirecTV for the primary TV sets (basement and family room). Anyway, the picture I receive via antenna is acceptable - there is some snow, but the picture is perfectly viewable. However, the converter boxes seem to have less RX sensitivity, or something. I can only get a fraction of channels available, and sometimes more channels than other times - for example, the local NBC affiliate worked fine Tuesday night (we watched Leno) but last night there was a LOT of digital artifacts and the audio was terrible... Picture had artifacts also. For what it's worth, there is an overlay available that works with Google Earth that will graphically show you the available coverage of any TV station. For the Chicago market, I find I'm on the fringe (unfortunately, I live in a river valley, which also affects my reception) so I need to do something with my antenna. For years, I've had it in the attic with no problem, but now it looks like it's going to have to go out - either on the roof, or on the tower. I have not checked to see if the newer digital TV transmitters are operating at lower power levels than their analog counterparts, but I wonder if this could be one reason for my experiences. And of course, we're going to transition in February - not the best time of the year to be climbing towers. (Hey FCC - why not transition in June when the weather is much more conducive to tower activities? Ah-h-h, government at work... Gotta love it.) Good luck! Mark - N9WYS
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Transmitter fingerprinting?
I passed your question to a friend who used to do this kind of thing for the Coast Guard. Here's what he had to say: I am using the Motron TXID transmitter Fingerprinter; Motron shows it has been discontinued. I am not aware of any similar products on the market. A phone call to them might uncover a used unit. The software that I have works in DOS and requires a discriminator connection to the receiver. I am using the IC7000. I found some discussion at: http://kb9mwr.blogspot.com/2008_04_01_archive.html Hope this helps. Bob M. == --- On Wed, 1/7/09, w1ik w...@arrl.net wrote: From: w1ik w...@arrl.net Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Transmitter fingerprinting? To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 4:57 PM I searched the archives, and did not see this issue addressed. Please forgive me if this has been covered before. Is there anyone here utilizing any form of transmitter fingerprinting software and/or hardware to identify sources of interference, either intentional or otherwise? Can you please provide me with an explanation of just how you are accomplishing this? Your experience and expertise would be greatly appreciated! Thank you! 73 William J. (Jim) Wickstrom, W1IK/NNN0AHC Technical Director, Utica/Shelby Emergency Communication Association (USECA) w1ikatarrldotnet www.usecaarc.com
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Transmitter fingerprinting?
Look here at one option http://homepage.eircom.net/~ei4jr/Xmit_ID.htm Thank you 73 Kenny ARS KG5KS Currently DEC B, EC Jackson County, OBS, ORS, ARRL VE Courses completed Nims 700, ICS 100, 200, 300, 400, 702, 317, 394, 240, 242, 139, 245, 275, 230, 235, 800, ARECC 1, Certified Skywarn Continuously, Past Public Safety Officer for State, CERT Certified. From: Bob M. msf5kg...@yahoo.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 8, 2009 12:19:44 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Transmitter fingerprinting? I passed your question to a friend who used to do this kind of thing for the Coast Guard. Here's what he had to say: I am using the Motron TXID transmitter Fingerprinter; Motron shows it has been discontinued. I am not aware of any similar products on the market. A phone call to them might uncover a used unit. The software that I have works in DOS and requires a discriminator connection to the receiver. I am using the IC7000. I found some discussion at: http://kb9mwr. blogspot. com/2008_ 04_01_archive. html Hope this helps. Bob M. == --- On Wed, 1/7/09, w1ik w...@arrl.net wrote: From: w1ik w...@arrl.net Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Transmitter fingerprinting? To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 4:57 PM I searched the archives, and did not see this issue addressed. Please forgive me if this has been covered before. Is there anyone here utilizing any form of transmitter fingerprinting software and/or hardware to identify sources of interference, either intentional or otherwise? Can you please provide me with an explanation of just how you are accomplishing this? Your experience and expertise would be greatly appreciated! Thank you! 73 William J. (Jim) Wickstrom, W1IK/NNN0AHC Technical Director, Utica/Shelby Emergency Communication Association (USECA) w1ikatarrl dotnet www.usecaarc. com
[Repeater-Builder] Re: OT- Digital TV converter box issues
My 2 cents worth. First I agree that antennas are going to be the big problem. Rabbit ears are going to be a joke unless you are right under the transmitter. Here in Northern California, my father in-law is 2 miles south of the PAVE PAWS radar site. He had an old beat up VHF/UHF antenna up 25' on a Rohn 25 tower. (beat up is an understatement, destroyed by wild peacocks perching on the antenna). Then throw in long cable line and 2 splitters and he wonders why his new convert box didn't work. The answer, new UHF antenna (small enough that the peacocks don't like it), a mast mounted preamp from (sic) Rat Shack, eliminated one splitter. This antenna is point North at the Radar to a Chico 40 miles, skirting the edge of a hill, the Sacramento stations are to the back of the antenna 70 + miles. I'll be darn, he now gets both markets. Work on the outside will save grief on the inside. Chris N6ICW
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
I have the Zenith box, paid a little more for it, and it works pretty well here in Salt Lake City. I'm surrounded by high mountaintop transmitter sites, so I didn't need much of an antenna. I just stuck a 12 piece of wire in the center of the coax jack on my two boxes, and I get all the locals. When I have had dropouts, I've wondered if it might not be out-of-band overload from nearby transmitters. It has that pattern...the signal indicator I can call up on-screen will be strong, but suddenly drop. I'll bet these things have no front ends at all. Apartment buildings are going to create Part 15 Wars that may never be won. My sister-in-law has barely-watchable analog TV in her apartment now, but it's not for lack of signal strength. There's a constant herringbone on the screen on some channels, from some device somewhere. I'm taking one of my converters over to try there this weekend before she orders cable. Even in my single-family home, I get breakup on my digital reception anytime I use the microwave oven. I'm not going to mess with antennas until summer, when the channel reassignments are over and I know what frequencies I'm cutting for. BTW, I ordered coupons at www.dtv2009.gov for my in-laws Saturday, January 3rd, and all indications are we're getting them. Must have been the last day. 73, Paul, AE4KR - Original Message - From: TRACOMM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 1:21 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues Only boxes I have found so far that seem to work very well are the DigitalStream Zenith pass thru boxes, scan quickly, best picture on rabbit ears. Cost more, but worth the price... Recent Activity a.. 18New Members Visit Your Group Biz Resources Y! Small Business Articles, tools, forms, and more. Yahoo! Groups Everyday Wellness Zone Check out featured healthy living groups. Yahoo! Groups Dogs Owners Group Join Do More For Dogs pet community .
[Repeater-Builder] Wanted: Connect Systems Inc CD-2
Anybody have a CSI CD-2 they would like to sell? http://www.connectsystems.com/products/specs/CD2_LT2.pdf If so, please drop me a line at n...@qx.net Thanks - Bill
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: OT- Digital TV converter box issues
Is a UHF antenna the way to go here? Does a small standard TV antenna basically do little or no good, whereas a good UHF antenna will now be required for decent reception? - Mike From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Huber Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 1:35 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: OT- Digital TV converter box issues My 2 cents worth. First I agree that antennas are going to be the big problem. Rabbit ears are going to be a joke unless you are right under the transmitter. Here in Northern California, my father in-law is 2 miles south of the PAVE PAWS radar site. He had an old beat up VHF/UHF antenna up 25' on a Rohn 25 tower. (beat up is an understatement, destroyed by wild peacocks perching on the antenna). Then throw in long cable line and 2 splitters and he wonders why his new convert box didn't work. The answer, new UHF antenna (small enough that the peacocks don't like it), a mast mounted preamp from (sic) Rat Shack, eliminated one splitter. This antenna is point North at the Radar to a Chico 40 miles, skirting the edge of a hill, the Sacramento stations are to the back of the antenna 70 + miles. I'll be darn, he now gets both markets. Work on the outside will save grief on the inside. Chris N6ICW __ NOD32 3749 (20090107) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: OT- Digital TV converter box issues
Depends on the area. Some places will be all UHF, other will still have some VHF. You can tell here: http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/ Chuck - Original Message - From: Michael Ryan To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 2:09 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: OT- Digital TV converter box issues Is a UHF antenna the way to go here? Does a small standard TV antenna basically do little or no good, whereas a good UHF antenna will now be required for decent reception? - Mike From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Huber Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 1:35 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: OT- Digital TV converter box issues My 2 cents worth. First I agree that antennas are going to be the big problem. Rabbit ears are going to be a joke unless you are right under the transmitter. Here in Northern California, my father in-law is 2 miles south of the PAVE PAWS radar site. He had an old beat up VHF/UHF antenna up 25' on a Rohn 25 tower. (beat up is an understatement, destroyed by wild peacocks perching on the antenna). Then throw in long cable line and 2 splitters and he wonders why his new convert box didn't work. The answer, new UHF antenna (small enough that the peacocks don't like it), a mast mounted preamp from (sic) Rat Shack, eliminated one splitter. This antenna is point North at the Radar to a Chico 40 miles, skirting the edge of a hill, the Sacramento stations are to the back of the antenna 70 + miles. I'll be darn, he now gets both markets. Work on the outside will save grief on the inside. Chris N6ICW __ NOD32 3749 (20090107) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: OT- Digital TV converter box issues
While the subject matter is off topic it does deal with propagation issues. I'm some 70 miles S. from the Mt. Bigalow Tucson TV tower that is shared by most of the Tucson DTV stations. A neighbor with a simple looking Ebay antenna gets all the stations reliably. On the other hand, I've put up an 8-bay UHF with a low noise preamp and receive all the stations with the exception of ABC which pops in and out. Like anything else, it's Location - Location - Location! Jack - Original Message - From: Chuck Kelsey To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 12:12 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: OT- Digital TV converter box issues Depends on the area. Some places will be all UHF, other will still have some VHF. You can tell here: http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/ Chuck - Original Message - From: Michael Ryan To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 2:09 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: OT- Digital TV converter box issues Is a UHF antenna the way to go here? Does a small standard TV antenna basically do little or no good, whereas a good UHF antenna will now be required for decent reception? - Mike From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Huber Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 1:35 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: OT- Digital TV converter box issues My 2 cents worth. First I agree that antennas are going to be the big problem. Rabbit ears are going to be a joke unless you are right under the transmitter. Here in Northern California, my father in-law is 2 miles south of the PAVE PAWS radar site. He had an old beat up VHF/UHF antenna up 25' on a Rohn 25 tower. (beat up is an understatement, destroyed by wild peacocks perching on the antenna). Then throw in long cable line and 2 splitters and he wonders why his new convert box didn't work. The answer, new UHF antenna (small enough that the peacocks don't like it), a mast mounted preamp from (sic) Rat Shack, eliminated one splitter. This antenna is point North at the Radar to a Chico 40 miles, skirting the edge of a hill, the Sacramento stations are to the back of the antenna 70 + miles. I'll be darn, he now gets both markets. Work on the outside will save grief on the inside. Chris N6ICW __ NOD32 3749 (20090107) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.5/1881 - Release Date: 1/7/2009 5:59 PM
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Site Generator - First 09 War Story
skipp025 wrote: Jan. 2009 Site Generator - War Story Well... the first train wreck of 09 hit early in the calendar year. Peak gust winds were over 89 MPH at one site yesterday, and over 100 MPH at another, with sustained winds very close to the gust speeds... but no problems reported so far other than power bumps. :-) Winter in the Rockies... Nate WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
Paul N1BUG wrote: I TRY not to respond to OT posts, but boy am I fed up with DTV! I could get all the high power analog stations in my market snow-free with a small rooftop antenna. No go with DTV so I've been incrementally upgrading. I now have a very large antenna residing at 70 feet on one of my towers. For those in covenant-controlled areas, you can now just slap up a giant log-periodic on a tower with a nice beefy rotor for VHF+ work, and call it your new HDTV antenna when someone asks what you're doing! (GRIN!) :-) Nate WY0X
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: OT- Digital TV converter box issues
I know we have really got off topic Somewhat and I hate to add to It But I do agree Location Location , A lot of Great information has been give by some Professionals in the Field and on this group , Here is A Nice Site I might have posted it Before Some Might not Even know what is available from their location , I did not put in any Personal info just My Zip and it worked find and found some Good info relating to DTV If You wish to customize it for Your Location or A friend just put in that info too. , I just don't like doing that Not knowing where it will end up , It is like Not wanting People to know Who or where We live then We get a Ham Plate . Look around on the Site for other Communications info Maps Etc 73 De Don KA9QJG Check it out http://www.tvfool. http://www.tvfool.com/ com/ Have you ever wondered what television signals are being broadcast in your area? Perhaps you've recently purchased a new HDTV and you're looking for some High Definition content. Or maybe you're just looking for some additional sources to compliment your existing cable and/or satellite services. Well, here's a tool that can analyze your location to help determine what FREE broadcasts might be available in your neighborhood. This tool can help answer questions like - Which broadcasters are transmitting locally? - How far are the transmitters from me? - Which direction should I point my antenna? - How strong are the signals in my area? - What analog and digital channels are available? - (NEW) How will things look after the analog shutoff in Feb-200
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Site Generator - First 09 War Story
Always a smart guy in the crowd... :-) Years ago in my Motorola days we learned to put a post-it check list on the dash of all vehicles. And the repeater disable, ctcss enable on a community box and all local speakers off/down was on that list. Later in life some of those things came back to bite me... even another war story. The Genset is a Magnum MGL-12... one of their older units. http://www.m-p-llc.com/products/generators/ cheers, s. Bob M. msf5kg...@... wrote: I was waiting for you to mention the inevitable phone message waiting for you 23 hours later that tells you about the repeat/disable switch you forgot to throw as you walked out the door... What brand genset chewed up its gear? Bob M. == --- On Wed, 1/7/09, skipp025 skipp...@... wrote: From: skipp025 skipp...@... Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Site Generator - First 09 War Story To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 7:05 PM Jan. 2009 Site Generator - War Story Well... the first train wreck of 09 hit early in the calendar year. A critical care customer reports a serious problem... off we go to the super remote solar propane radio site. We arrive to find everything looking just peachy... but since it's a 5 hour drive we figure to check every detail and do regular maintenance anyway. Move around some cable to find a one repeater cuts in and out... oh my god, the feed line is *^#$%@ LMR-400 from the original site owner. Out it goes and everything quiets down, life is good once again. Or so we thought... Packed up ready to leave... let's do one last generator test. Switch on to hear a really bad sounding metal on metal grinding noise... quick switched off. Let me give the short version... Genset (generator engine) starter removed to see the most of the flywheel ring gear missing. The grinding noise was the starter chipping teeth off the flywheel ring gear. Bad, very, very bad... Dark clouds form in my head while I/we try to figure out how to fix this remote mountain site cluster #...@%. We resign ourselves to at least get the major pull-down part of the repair started, then think about how to allocate resources and dive into pulling the genset apart. Much to our surprise... we properly unbolted 10,000 items to end up with the flywheel in our hands 3 hours later. Down the mountain to the nearest, largest nearby town where we quickly relearn how nothing happens or moves fast in Hooterville. So I ask and find a local full-service machine shop and off we go. The appended version is the machine shop did a fix to the ring gear and repressed it on the flywheel while we ate a late lunch. I had a RB sandwich with fries... and Ice Tea of course. Picked up the beast (repaired flywheel) and off we went back to the site... Another 2 hours or so to reinstall the flywheel and restore the unit. Big smile as I hit the switch to hear the engine cleanly roar to life every time. Down the mountain we go... dirty, mangy and might unclean but no longer wanted men (sorry to those of you who get the AC/DC reference). Forget the decafe coffee, stocked up with 20oz French Roast (light cream), snacks, a recently renewed XM-Radio subscription and start the long drive home. Walked back in the shop door some 23 hours after we left... So, how was your day? cheers, skipp skipp025 at yahoo.com www.radiowrench.com
[Repeater-Builder] DB4062 in non-standard application
The local CAP group has a DB4062 duplexer. (6- 8 cans) Somehow they are able to operate a VHF repeater and a packet node all on one antenna using this set of BPBR's. Does anyone have an idea as to how they would have plumbed the duplexer to make this happen? I don't know the CAP frequencies in question, sorry. I would like to do a 2M machine - 147.075+ and APRS - 144.39. I realize I *could* just go to the site and look, but it's at about 3000' and it's snowing like crazy right now. This is not to mention the ICE we had the past two days. Scott Scott Zimmerman Amateur Radio Call N3XCC 474 Barnett Rd Boswell, PA 15531
[Repeater-Builder] Rg174 as duplexer patch cables
Hey guys, I had this question thrown at me. Will rg174 work for connecting the duplexer to a repeater? Any ideas? Thanks, Jed
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Rg174 as duplexer patch cables
At 01:22 PM 1/8/2009, Jed Barton wrote: Hey guys, I had this question thrown at me. Will rg174 work for connecting the duplexer to a repeater? ---Don't do it, you'll kill yourself Seriously Jed, the first question that pops into my head is WHY? RG174 is VERY lossy for all but the shortest runs, can't handle much power and isn't double shielded. Seriously Jed, it is a VERY bad idea Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
At 09:30 AM 01/08/09, you wrote: Hello Mike, Are you saying your address shows as invalid?. I ordered some for my sister (on line) and it allowed you to enter an actual street address and then it allowed shipping to a different address like her P.O. Box. My old adders is forwarded by the postal office. I had coupons sent there, but I never got them and according to the post office folks they can't forward them. Of course there may be a different reason that I didn't get them, and the PO guy is mistaken. The DTV web site back in August would not take a PO box. My new address was used by the former owners and the system won't send a second set of coupons to a different name. However if your address is non existent you might ask a friend to use theirs if they haven't ordered any Like I said, all of my friends are getting boxes using their addresses - they want the extra box for hacking purposes (nobody has a spare coupon). and have them sent to your P. O. Box. As long as you have a physical street address for your location it should work. At least it did here. Adding a extra letter (like changing apartment 12 to 12A results in The address you provided could not be found. The unit, suite, or apartment number for the address you provided is missing or invalid. Please supply a valid unit, suite, or apartment number and submit your application again. Physical locations have to be in their data base, and it's pretty accurate. However an email I received gave me a couple of additional options that I didn't know were available. I'm still looking for an unused address - someone local who not going to apply for any coupons - maybe he has purchased replacement TVs, or uses cable, etc.. Larry - N7FM Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Rg174 as duplexer patch cables
I am so glad that Ken let you know all about that one!! Asking about RG58 is enough to start a flame war RG174 could lead to something more! ;) If I used any form of small cable like RG174, it would be it's double shielded/teflon cousin (to which I forget its number) at about 5 watts or less on a mobile repeater/duplexer that I could care less if I had no power by the time I got to the antenna :) (This comes from the guy who has a couple sites that have 1/2 superflex jumpers ) James WJ1D Ken Arck wrote: At 01:22 PM 1/8/2009, Jed Barton wrote: Hey guys, I had this question thrown at me. Will rg174 work for connecting the duplexer to a repeater? ---Don't do it, you'll kill yourself Seriously Jed, the first question that pops into my head is WHY? RG174 is VERY lossy for all but the shortest runs, can't handle much power and isn't double shielded. Seriously Jed, it is a VERY bad idea Ken
[Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV/ New War Story
Ok, I promised not to post anymore on this, but you'll like this one. I said in a previous post I was going to a potential client to look at a job today where they have tennants who are plugging their DTV converter boxes into the house antenna system and not receiving the channels, and another company recommended a digital amplifier to solve the problem. Well, I went. Here is a photo of the head end of one of the 88 unit buildings: http://www.waldofar.net/88_unit_head_end_web.jpg I believe the appropriate caption is Well, there's your problem! Fun Fun. Notes on this- 1. Its a VHF only in house antenna system with 2 UHF channels re-modulated on to channels 4 8. Wonder why DTV didn't work? 2. See the tan box on the wall with the red/black sticker- an amplifier-? You are tempted to think this is hanging by one mount. I will tell you the reality is it is mounted securely at that angle. My guess is our proposal will be too much.. Enjoy! Tom W9SRV
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Rg174 as duplexer patch cables
Hey i was just asked the question by someone else so thought i would throw it out there. Thanks, Jed _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ken Arck Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 4:25 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Rg174 as duplexer patch cables At 01:22 PM 1/8/2009, Jed Barton wrote: Hey guys, I had this question thrown at me. Will rg174 work for connecting the duplexer to a repeater? ---Don't do it, you'll kill yourself Seriously Jed, the first question that pops into my head is WHY? RG174 is VERY lossy for all but the shortest runs, can't handle much power and isn't double shielded. Seriously Jed, it is a VERY bad idea Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcon http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ trollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp. http://www.irlp.net net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
Here's something interesting I noticed. If the consumer (we're not people you know, we're consumers now...) had any type of Standard Def recording device that had its own tuner... It could ostensibly be set permanently to channel 3 (or whatever the RF output of the DTV converter box is) to handle making recordings... But, I haven't seen any DTV tuner boxes with clocks and/or scheduling capabilities to tune the correct channel prior to the recording device starting up. Has anyone else seen one of those? (Other than building a home-brew DVR with MythBox or buying a similar commercial product...) Nate WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
There is a Sony DVD Recorder/VCR with a built in ATSC tuner that can record DTV onto either DVD or VCR, but that model has been discontinued and what's in stock at Sony it whats left. I have not seen any DTV converters that can do what you ask for. Remember- Made to be the least cost to the publicThat would have added $5 Tom W9SRV --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Nate Duehr n...@natetech.com wrote: From: Nate Duehr n...@natetech.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 4:07 PM Here's something interesting I noticed. If the consumer (we're not people you know, we're consumers now...) had any type of Standard Def recording device that had its own tuner... It could ostensibly be set permanently to channel 3 (or whatever the RF output of the DTV converter box is) to handle making recordings... But, I haven't seen any DTV tuner boxes with clocks and/or scheduling capabilities to tune the correct channel prior to the recording device starting up. Has anyone else seen one of those? (Other than building a home-brew DVR with MythBox or buying a similar commercial product...) Nate WY0X Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
OK I promised that I'd reply back if I tried removal of the preamplifier. Well, I did and it resulted in degraded reception. Before removing the pre-amp, I could receive DTV channels 5 (with artifacts), 7, 9, 11, 32, 35, 38, 44, and 50. After removal, I received only 9, 32, and 50. So I guess the pre-amp is not introducing any noise into the system affecting the DTV tuner. I get all the analog channels: 2, 5, 7, 9, 11, 20, 23, 26, 32, 35, 38, 44, 50, 56, 60, 62, and 66... which leads me to believe my antenna isn't too bad off yet. As an aside, I did notice that the DTV tuner itself results in a MUCH less viewable *analog* signal (remember, my boxes are pass-through). There seems to be a LOT of insertion loss attributable to the tuner. Again, my box brand is Magnavox - not what I would consider a fly-by-night or no-name manufacturer. I don't know how to resolve this - or if it is even a resolvable situation - but analog channels that were perfectly viewable before placing the box inline became terrible afterward. (I hate to use an arbitrary reference for this, but it was as if a 20dB attenuator or similar had been placed inline.) And I understand that many channels have moved from VHF to UHF... Well, it certainly looks as if I'll need to install a new antenna outside again... but I can't climb the tower now - I just had surgery. Plus, it's plain too cold to do it now. So we'll see when Spring breaks. But until then I won't be able to support/patronize those who advertise on the channels I can't see. grin Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Mark snip I do like the suggestion about the pre-amp - I may give that a try this afternoon (if it isn't too cold in my attic!) and I'll report my results. (BTW - mine is not a hardware store variety, it's a Winegard that I spent probably $70 on about three years ago.) Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of TGundo 2003 more snippage I hear once a day: The antenna in my attic/ my old antenna system does not get the DTV stations that I get in analog. My Response: Well, this is a technical group with a high level of RF knowledge. How well does your 440 antenna (or any band) work in the attic compared to on your roof or tower? There is some implied responsibility on the part of the end user to ensure that their equipment is optimized for the best performance. That being said, I have many many clients with antennas in the attic that work just fine. What I do find to be the typical problem is that most people with antennas in their attics have an amplifier installed to make up for being in the attic. I'm sorry to say that the $15-20 amplifier you pick up at the hardware store sucks, to prove that just bench test it on your specturm analyzer look at a DTV signal. They typically distort the waveform badly and that is more common a problem why you can't tune the DTV station. I have pulled those from an antenna system that were receiving analog but not digital. Once out of the system, while the analog was virtually unwatchable now (which the amp had boosted enough to tolerate), the DTV signal suddenly came thru with flying colors! Would you put a crappy preamp on your repeater receiver? I hear once a day: My converter box does not seem as sensitive as my new DTV set in the other room. My Response: Let's use some common sense here. The government mandated that the LOWEST COST possible converter boxes be made available for people to convert their OLD analog TV's. The bottom line: You get what you pay for. Was not that long ago a wise jedi master here on RB posted findings on PL circuits in radios with his test equipment and found that the cheaper radios did a poorer job. Your $50 converter box is not going to have as good of DTV tuner in it as your new $5000 Sony HDTV. This difference existed in analog tuners as well. Nuff said. *A side note: We have found that there are huge differences in converter boxes. For what it is worth the Zenith model seems to be one of the best, in case your shopping. I would stay away from brands you have never heard of at the big box stores.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Triplett 630 Multimeter - downloadable manual
John sent me a copy, it's now on the Other Manufacturers page at www.repeater-builder Mike WA6ILQ At 09:47 AM 01/08/09, you wrote: I'd like a copy-- Many thanks-- Scott, N6NXI mailto:sc...@becklawfirm.comsc...@becklawfirm.com - Original Message - From: mailto:ve3...@earthlink.netJohn J. Riddell To: mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 1:56 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Triplett 630 Multimeter Triplett 630 Multimeter I came across the manual for the Triplett 630 Analogue Multimeter on the Internet in PDF format, and if anyone needs it I can send it to them. It's about 30 pages if you print it. John VE3AMZ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
Try a new jumper between the converter and the TV. Maybe it's questionable and introducing your pass-through loss. Can't hurt to try. Chuck - Original Message - From: Mark n9...@ameritech.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 5:44 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues As an aside, I did notice that the DTV tuner itself results in a MUCH less viewable *analog* signal (remember, my boxes are pass-through). There seems to be a LOT of insertion loss attributable to the tuner.
[Repeater-Builder] Announcement of 8th Annual VoIP Topical Conference Saturday April 18, 2009 at Circus-Circus Hotel in Las Vegas
Sent bcc to dist list Nevada Amateur Radio Repeaters, Inc. has sponsored a VoIP meeting over the last eight years in the Spring, usually near the time of the NAB convention. Last year's VoIP meeting was a great success. We have had numerous inquiries about 2009. We are happy to announce the 8th Annual Las Vegas VoIP Topical Conference Saturday April 18, 2009 at the Circus-Circus Hotel in Las Vegas. This is the Saturday at the beginning of the NAB conference. The venue is a review of latest developments in all the popular VoIP systems used by hams for linking via the internet including IRLP, Echo link , Apt-rpt All Star and D-Star. Related topics such as operating experience, Wi-Fi, miniaturization of nodes, mobile broadband, use of systems to support public service and others areas of interest may be presented. Those with an interest in suggesting a topic or being on the program should let me know in advance the presentation topic (ASAP). A quick review of www.circuscircus.com shows room rates in the range of $85 to $109 per night plus taxes. The address is 2880 Las Vegas Blvd S, Las Vegas, NV 89109. Attendees are responsible for making their own room reservations so call (702) 734-0410 or 1-877-434-9175. The cost for admittance to the topical conference will be less than $100 including breakfast and lunch. Please e-mail if you have an interest in attending. I will build a topical meeting information e-mail list. Kent W7AOR w7...@narri.org 702-452-4412
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Triplett 630 Multimeter
http://www.electro-meters.com/Triplett/T_M/AMMs/Analog_VOMs.htm Enrique Esteban POINSOT LU6VID Grid Locator FE89ME 40º 49' 16 S 62º 59' 24 W Guemes 831 - Viedma Río Negro Patagonia Argentina - Original Message - From: John J. Riddell To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 6:56 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Triplett 630 Multimeter Triplett 630 Multimeter I came across the manual for the Triplett 630 Analogue Multimeter on the Internet in PDF format, and if anyone needs it I can send it to them. It's about 30 pages if you print it. John VE3AMZ __ Información de ESET NOD32 Antivirus, versión de la base de firmas de virus 3749 (20090107) __ ESET NOD32 Antivirus ha comprobado este mensaje. http://www.eset.com
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
Just bought a Phillips DVDR3576H, has an ATSC, NTSC, QAM tuner, records to hard drive or DVD and has built-in timers. Also has modulator for output to ch 3 as well as composite video, component video and HDMI.Also upconverts to 720i or 1080i. May be more than you are looking for, but it is reasonably priced and current production. Henry, K4HAL Nate Duehr wrote: Here's something interesting I noticed. If the consumer (we're not people you know, we're consumers now...) had any type of Standard Def recording device that had its own tuner... It could ostensibly be set permanently to channel 3 (or whatever the RF output of the DTV converter box is) to handle making recordings... But, I haven't seen any DTV tuner boxes with clocks and/or scheduling capabilities to tune the correct channel prior to the recording device starting up. Has anyone else seen one of those? (Other than building a home-brew DVR with MythBox or buying a similar commercial product...) Nate WY0X Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.2/1876 - Release Date: 1/5/2009 9:44 AM
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
Already tried that with several lengths - in case the first one I tried was bad. And I did find a bad length, but it wasn't inline. Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Chuck Kelsey Try a new jumper between the converter and the TV. Maybe it's questionable and introducing your pass-through loss. Can't hurt to try. Chuck - Original Message - From: Mark n9...@ameritech.net As an aside, I did notice that the DTV tuner itself results in a MUCH less viewable *analog* signal (remember, my boxes are pass-through). There seems to be a LOT of insertion loss attributable to the tuner.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
I just looked at my TV converter coupon program letter and verified that they sent the card to my post office box. I got the card, no problem. Joe Larry wrote: Hello Mike, Are you saying your address shows as invalid?. I ordered some for my sister (on line) and it allowed you to enter an actual street address and then it allowed shipping to a different address like her P.O. Box.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
NBC Nightly News just had a teaser about the Obama Transition team wanting to push back the DTV switch-over date.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
The coupon site makes it clear that the coupons will come by standard mail, not first class. The postal service calls this Presort Standard. The more common dexriptor is junk mail. They're paying a reduced postal rate which frees the US Postal Service from the responsibility to forward. I believe PO boxes, nursing homes and some other previously disallowed addresstypes were OK'd late in the game. 73, Paul, AE4KR - Original Message - From: Mike Morris WA6ILQ To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 2:51 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues At 09:30 AM 01/08/09, you wrote: Hello Mike, Are you saying your address shows as invalid?. I ordered some for my sister (on line) and it allowed you to enter an actual street address and then it allowed shipping to a different address like her P.O. Box. My old adders is forwarded by the postal office. I had coupons sent there, but I never got them and according to the post office folks they can't forward them. Of course there may be a different reason that I didn't get them, and the PO guy is mistaken. The DTV web site back in August would not take a PO box. My new address was used by the former owners and the system won't send a second set of coupons to a different name. However if your address is non existent you might ask a friend to use theirs if they haven't ordered any Like I said, all of my friends are getting boxes using their addresses - they want the extra box for hacking purposes (nobody has a spare coupon). and have them sent to your P. O. Box. As long as you have a physical street address for your location it should work. At least it did here. Adding a extra letter (like changing apartment 12 to 12A results in The address you provided could not be found. The unit, suite, or apartment number for the address you provided is missing or invalid. Please supply a valid unit, suite, or apartment number and submit your application again. Physical locations have to be in their data base, and it's pretty accurate. However an email I received gave me a couple of additional options that I didn't know were available. I'm still looking for an unused address - someone local who not going to apply for any coupons - maybe he has purchased replacement TVs, or uses cable, etc.. Larry - N7FM Mike WA6ILQ
[Repeater-Builder] updating my uhf repeater Receiver
ok guys looking to update my uhf repeater Receiver. i want to hear a nat fart 10miles away.. what should i get ??? must be a motorola !! Thanks...N8RTN 442.875+ 100.0 pl
Re: [Repeater-Builder] updating my uhf repeater Receiver
At 04:13 PM 1/8/2009, n8rtn wrote: ok guys looking to update my uhf repeater Receiver. i want to hear a nat fart 10miles away.. what should i get ??? must be a motorola !! Thanks...N8RTN 442.875+ 100.0 pl _ Whatcha got now for a receiver? Ever considered a good quality preamp?\ Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
At 14:39 1/8/2009, TGundo 2003 wrote: There is a Sony DVD Recorder/VCR with a built in ATSC tuner that can record DTV onto either DVD or VCR, Maybe you are thinking of the Sony DHG-HDD250 and 500? If so, I have one, they won't record a DVD but otherwise they are great Too bad they are gone but that model has been discontinued and what's in stock at Sony it whats left. I have not seen any DTV converters that can do what you ask for. Remember- Made to be the least cost to the publicThat would have added $5 Tom W9SRV --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Nate Duehr n...@natetech.com wrote: From: Nate Duehr n...@natetech.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 4:07 PM Here's something interesting I noticed. If the consumer (we're not people you know, we're consumers now...) had any type of Standard Def recording device that had its own tuner... It could ostensibly be set permanently to channel 3 (or whatever the RF output of the DTV converter box is) to handle making recordings... But, I haven't seen any DTV tuner boxes with clocks and/or scheduling capabilities to tune the correct channel prior to the recording device starting up. Has anyone else seen one of those? (Other than building a home-brew DVR with MythBox or buying a similar commercial product...) Nate WY0X Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.2/1876 - Release Date: 1/5/2009 9:44 AM -- Dave Gomberg, San Francisco NE5EE gomberg1 at wcf dot com All addresses, phones, etc. at http://www.wcf.com/ham/info.html -
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV/ New War Story
I will tell you the reality is it is mounted securely at that angle. It's mounted at that angle so the rat crap falls off!! HIHI Scott Scott Zimmerman Amateur Radio Call N3XCC 474 Barnett Rd Boswell, PA 15531 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.5/1883 - Release Date: 1/8/2009 6:05 PM
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
Mark wrote: NBC Nightly News just had a teaser about the Obama Transition team wanting to push back the DTV switch-over date… Maybe they should just do some more wealth redistribution to pay for a few more $40 coupons instead. Then they can feel the warm glow of accomplishment -- after hitting a real goal -- instead of moving the target and calling the move a successful outcome. Oh wait, they're politicians, I forgot. Sorry. My bad. What was I thinking!? Oops. Nate WY0X Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:repeater-builder-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:repeater-builder-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: repeater-builder-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
Model Number: RDR-VXD655 Still available on sony style, as a dealer were having a hard time getting them. This model does not have a hard drive, I know the one you have and it was great... Tom --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Dave Gomberg da...@wcf.com wrote: From: Dave Gomberg da...@wcf.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 6:32 PM At 14:39 1/8/2009, TGundo 2003 wrote: There is a Sony DVD Recorder/VCR with a built in ATSC tuner that can record DTV onto either DVD or VCR, Maybe you are thinking of the Sony DHG-HDD250 and 500? If so, I have one, they won't record a DVD but otherwise they are great Too bad they are gone but that model has been discontinued and what's in stock at Sony it whats left. I have not seen any DTV converters that can do what you ask for. Remember- Made to be the least cost to the publicThat would have added $5 Tom W9SRV --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Nate Duehr n...@natetech.com wrote: From: Nate Duehr n...@natetech.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 4:07 PM Here's something interesting I noticed. If the consumer (we're not people you know, we're consumers now...) had any type of Standard Def recording device that had its own tuner... It could ostensibly be set permanently to channel 3 (or whatever the RF output of the DTV converter box is) to handle making recordings... But, I haven't seen any DTV tuner boxes with clocks and/or scheduling capabilities to tune the correct channel prior to the recording device starting up. Has anyone else seen one of those? (Other than building a home-brew DVR with MythBox or buying a similar commercial product...) Nate WY0X Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.2/1876 - Release Date: 1/5/2009 9:44 AM -- Dave Gomberg, San Francisco NE5EE gomberg1 at wcf dot com All addresses, phones, etc. at http://www.wcf.com/ham/info.html - Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
Chuck Kelsey wrote: I'm using the Magnavox converter. Compared to my HDTV, I'd say that reception is the same, only that the converter changes channels a lot faster than the tuner in the TV. Actually the converter has a longer run of coax than the TV. We are doing several digital to analog conversions for the small catv systems I take care of. We also like the Magnavox unit over the RCA; both available at our local Wal-Mart. The Magnavox will resolve with lower signal level without tiling or saying the signal is too low. Kevin Custer
RE: [Repeater-Builder] updating my uhf repeater Receiver
If it must be Motorola, then it must be MICOR unit of any type. Bulletproof is the only way to describe them. I use SpectraTAC units with MICOR receivers in them and absolutely LOVE them. They are on 449.550 PL 114.8. Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of n8rtn ok guys looking to update my uhf repeater Receiver. i want to hear a nat fart 10miles away.. what should i get ??? must be a motorola !! Thanks...N8RTN 442.875+ 100.0 pl
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DTV et al
Can we have one of your converter coupons? See sig for addr. At 17:17 1/8/2009, Larry Wagoner wrote: I guess this would be a bad time to say that I have two convertor coupons that I don't intend to use at this point ... Larry Wagoner - N5WLW VP - PRCARC PIC - MS SECT ARRL -- Dave Gomberg, San Francisco NE5EE gomberg1 at wcf dot com All addresses, phones, etc. at http://www.wcf.com/ham/info.html -
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DTV et al
I also have two TV converter coupons that I won't be using either, if anybody wants 'em. Richard http://www.n7tgb.net/ www.n7tgb.net _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Wagoner Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 5:17 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DTV et al I guess this would be a bad time to say that I have two convertor coupons that I don't intend to use at this point ... Larry Wagoner - N5WLW VP - PRCARC PIC - MS SECT ARRL
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
At 1/8/2009 07:02, you wrote: Try this site. It's not perfect, but will give you an idea. I find cased where it says I'm well within range and I can't get the channels and some where it says I shouldn't and do. http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/ Keep in mind than a lot of stations have gone from VHF to UHF in the process. Chuck ...and after the analog shutdown many of the UHF TXs will backfill into the VHF HB channels. I know some people around here are buying UHF-only antennas, thinking they have DTV in this area all figured out. They're in for an unpleasant surprise come Feb. 17 when chs. 7, 9, 11 13 all move back to those actual channels from their current, temporary UHF DTV assignments. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
From the for what it's worth can: I had a talk with my son (RF engineer for several TV stations in the Florida panhandle) about this DTV stuff. Condensed version: Most stations are not running full power on there DTV yet. Preamps used now will have to be removed after full power due to front end overload of converters. Many stations will be going back to there original VHF freq's after the analog is down, so UHF transmitters are just temporary. LG developed the system used for DTV, conveters made by them tend to work better (includes Zenith boxes). There has been 5 revisions to system, early boxes don't work as well as newer ones. I also talked to a couple of DTV DXer's, the Zenith DTT900 seems to be the box of choice of these guys. Gerald Pelnar WD0FYF McPherson, Ks - Original Message - From: TRACOMM trac...@yahoo.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 2:21 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues Having issues converting over to digital TV. My father volunteered my services to a few of his friends, all serious seniors, Detroit market, As an elecronic wizard (my dad's words) I should be able to make anything with wires work well. Most converter boxes I tried took forever to scan, channels missing, analog TV worked great. Most of the seniors already had their free box, obtained with the converter box coupon. Only boxes I have found so far that seem to work very well are the DigitalStream Zenith pass thru boxes, scan quickly, best picture on rabbit ears. Cost more, but worth the price. Below is a message from another user group, also detailing the frustration in switching over to digital. CJD
Re: [Repeater-Builder] DB4062 in non-standard application
Scott, IIRC the split on a CAP repeater is very wide; one side is below the 2 meter band and the other is above...148.15 as an output comes to mind with a 143 input. That being the case I would suspect that they probably reconfigured the duplexer to use 1 or more cans for the packet freq and the rest for the repeater since the wider split would not require all 6 cans for proper isolation. Sounds like a trip to the site would make for an interesting snowmobile run. Milt N3LTQ - Original Message - From: Scott Zimmerman n3...@repeater-builder.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 4:19 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] DB4062 in non-standard application The local CAP group has a DB4062 duplexer. (6- 8 cans) Somehow they are able to operate a VHF repeater and a packet node all on one antenna using this set of BPBR's. Does anyone have an idea as to how they would have plumbed the duplexer to make this happen? I don't know the CAP frequencies in question, sorry. I would like to do a 2M machine - 147.075+ and APRS - 144.39. I realize I *could* just go to the site and look, but it's at about 3000' and it's snowing like crazy right now. This is not to mention the ICE we had the past two days. Scott Scott Zimmerman Amateur Radio Call N3XCC 474 Barnett Rd Boswell, PA 15531 Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DTV et al
If they are unexpired, I would like one please. At 19:17 1/8/2009, Richard wrote: I also have two TV converter coupons that I won't be using either, if anybody wants 'em. Richard http://www.n7tgb.net/www.n7tgb.net -- Dave Gomberg, San Francisco NE5EE gomberg1 at wcf dot com All addresses, phones, etc. at http://www.wcf.com/ham/info.html -
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
Almost all of the stations will be UHF in my area when all is said and done. Check your region on this map to be sure. It shows what channel the stations will use after cutover. http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/ Chuck - Original Message - From: Gerald Pelnar wd0...@cox.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 10:29 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues Many stations will be going back to there original VHF freq's after the analog is down, so UHF transmitters are just temporary.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DTV et al
doggone it... I just looked at them and they expire Monday, so there isn't any way to send them to anybody that they'll get there in time. I thought they expired in February, but there I go, thinking again. Sorry... Richard http://www.n7tgb.net/ www.n7tgb.net _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 7:18 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DTV et al I also have two TV converter coupons that I won't be using either, if anybody wants 'em. Richard http://www.n7tgb.net/ www.n7tgb.net _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Wagoner Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 5:17 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DTV et al I guess this would be a bad time to say that I have two convertor coupons that I don't intend to use at this point ... Larry Wagoner - N5WLW VP - PRCARC PIC - MS SECT ARRL
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
At 1/8/2009 08:02, you wrote: Tom, I do like the suggestion about the pre-amp - I may give that a try this afternoon (if it isn't too cold in my attic!) and I'll report my results. (BTW - mine is not a hardware store variety, it's a Winegard that I spent probably $70 on about three years ago.) Preamps aren't going to help if the problem is multipath distortion. From what I've been told, the 8VSB format that our DTV uses has poor multipath tolerance. Notice how there are no DTV Watchmans available. When Feb. 17 arrives I won't be able to watch TV during my weekend walks anymore. I think DTV is like D-Star: on paper, in good broadband path conditions, digital will outperform analog. However, in many real-world scenarios digital falls apart due to its intolerance of phase distortion. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
As someone that works in the CATV industry... I'm truly looking forward to the analog-shutoff in February... No more ghosting trouble calls due to ingress... Granted, those T/Cs will be less frequent but the problem of ingress/egress will still be present... Oh well :) I can tell you that our install volume for homes that have never ever had cable has jumper 400% since the coupon program ran out of money... 73s, AJ, K6LOR Boise, Idaho market On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 9:38 PM, n...@no6b.com wrote: At 1/8/2009 08:02, you wrote: Tom, I do like the suggestion about the pre-amp - I may give that a try this afternoon (if it isn't too cold in my attic!) and I'll report my results. (BTW - mine is not a hardware store variety, it's a Winegard that I spent probably $70 on about three years ago.) Preamps aren't going to help if the problem is multipath distortion. From what I've been told, the 8VSB format that our DTV uses has poor multipath tolerance. Notice how there are no DTV Watchmans available. When Feb. 17 arrives I won't be able to watch TV during my weekend walks anymore. I think DTV is like D-Star: on paper, in good broadband path conditions, digital will outperform analog. However, in many real-world scenarios digital falls apart due to its intolerance of phase distortion. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] DB4062 in non-standard application
At 1/8/2009 13:19, you wrote: The local CAP group has a DB4062 duplexer. (6- 8 cans) Somehow they are able to operate a VHF repeater and a packet node all on one antenna using this set of BPBR's. Does anyone have an idea as to how they would have plumbed the duplexer to make this happen? Configuring a duplexer for 2 RX 1 TX isn't too hard at all. But 2 in-band TXs are a problem, as you need to keep the 2nd TX out of BOTH the other TX the RX. 2 RXs don't need much isolation between each other. My guess is that if all they're using is the duplexer, they may not have enough isolation between the TXs to prevent generating IMD when both TXs are up. It may work for them, but it might still be dirty. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
At 1/8/2009 14:39, you wrote: But, I haven't seen any DTV tuner boxes with clocks and/or scheduling capabilities to tune the correct channel prior to the recording device starting up. Has anyone else seen one of those? (Other than building a home-brew DVR with MythBox or buying a similar commercial product...) I forget its name, but there is a product out there that sends IR signals from a scheduler to control IR-controllable equipment such as VCRs, TVs, etc. I think it runs on a PC. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
Only some are made low cost (and coupon 'eligible'). There are a lot of models that are not eligible for the coupon that have more features than the basic models - such as 1080p support. I have not seen any with any scheduling features, either, however. Joe M. TGundo 2003 wrote: There is a Sony DVD Recorder/VCR with a built in ATSC tuner that can record DTV onto either DVD or VCR, but that model has been discontinued and what's in stock at Sony it whats left. I have not seen any DTV converters that can do what you ask for. Remember- Made to be the least cost to the publicThat would have added $5 Tom W9SRV --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Nate Duehr n...@natetech.com wrote: From: Nate Duehr n...@natetech.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 4:07 PM Here's something interesting I noticed. If the consumer (we're not people you know, we're consumers now...) had any type of Standard Def recording device that had its own tuner... It could ostensibly be set permanently to channel 3 (or whatever the RF output of the DTV converter box is) to handle making recordings... But, I haven't seen any DTV tuner boxes with clocks and/or scheduling capabilities to tune the correct channel prior to the recording device starting up. Has anyone else seen one of those? (Other than building a home-brew DVR with MythBox or buying a similar commercial product...) Nate WY0X Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
That will be a loss for all RF users because where there is INGRESS, there is usually EGRESS, too (and often to the point it's not legal). Cable is supposed to be a closed system. As you said, the problem will still be present - just not dealt with as swiftly - if at all. The only ones who should be offended by the above statement are those who promote running illegal systems, so please consider that before you reply. Joe M. AJ wrote: As someone that works in the CATV industry... I'm truly looking forward to the analog-shutoff in February... No more ghosting trouble calls due to ingress... Granted, those T/Cs will be less frequent but the problem of ingress/egress will still be present... Oh well :) I can tell you that our install volume for homes that have never ever had cable has jumper 400% since the coupon program ran out of money... 73s, AJ, K6LOR Boise, Idaho market On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 9:38 PM, n...@no6b.com mailto:n...@no6b.com wrote: At 1/8/2009 08:02, you wrote: Tom, I do like the suggestion about the pre-amp - I may give that a try this afternoon (if it isn't too cold in my attic!) and I'll report my results. (BTW - mine is not a hardware store variety, it's a Winegard that I spent probably $70 on about three years ago.) Preamps aren't going to help if the problem is multipath distortion. From what I've been told, the 8VSB format that our DTV uses has poor multipath tolerance. Notice how there are no DTV Watchmans available. When Feb. 17 arrives I won't be able to watch TV during my weekend walks anymore. I think DTV is like D-Star: on paper, in good broadband path conditions, digital will outperform analog. However, in many real-world scenarios digital falls apart due to its intolerance of phase distortion. Bob NO6B
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
This will be My last comment on this, The Topic sure has run its course and Generated a lot of Valuable info that some may of not been aware of , It is one thing to talk about something New but another thing When people like on Here have actually already tried it and Experienced the Problems , Everything New has problems look at some of the Repeaters We put together . Anyway I was watching CNN Before I went to bed and saw President Elect Obama recommends a delay to the DTV Switch in Feb, I will not post the info because of Copy write but Anyone can do a Goggle search on it . Thanks for the Bandwidth, No pun intended Don KA9QJG ___
