[Repeater-Builder] remote head ?
Hi Everyone, i have a remote head fm828/25 A/R MK2 radio with a remote head that i hope to use as a repeater there are two sockets on the back of the radio one has a red strip around it what socket do i plug the remote head into to see if the radio work's ??...Rgs David VK4DJC.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] remote head ?
Hello David On the remote head there are usually 2 cables, 1 red and 1 black. The Black is the remote mike, volume, mute, on/off, the Red is the channel change. Plug the Red 10 pin WIST plug into the Red socket and the Black into the Black socket. Set the channel switch on the remote to the channel that you have the TX and RX crystals installed in. The circuit is usually in the rear of the FM-828 handbook. Regards Don vk2zcz - Original Message - From: David To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 5:14 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] remote head ? Hi Everyone, i have a remote head fm828/25 A/R MK2 radio with a remote head that i hope to use as a repeater there are two sockets on the back of the radio one has a red strip around it what socket do i plug the remote head into to see if the radio work's ??...Rgs David VK4DJC.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Tait UHF Standby Repeater D-Band
Hi Marcus, How many do you require, and what model Tait? I have either T300 or T800 Series rackmount duplexers available Cheers Gareth Bennett (- Original Message - From: Marcus To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 1:30 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Tait UHF Standby Repeater D-Band is there anyone on this list that resides in NZ and if so/not does anyone have any Cavity filters, if so how much i have a Tait Repeater running D-BAND it was a backup system would like to get it running, forgive the contradiction, the system is fully operational, i would like to put it to some use must be loads of points i have not mentioned, so if need be fire away, i shall answer all my old almost had it brain can conjur up Marcus
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Tait UHF Standby Repeater D-Band
i have added your email addy to my address book in case i need any more duplexors what i need is a price first for a cavity filter or two not a duplexor, nor a diplexor, nor a arieal, nor anything else am just after a price and availibility of Cavity filters Marcus Gareth Bennett wrote: Hi Marcus, How many do you require, and what model Tait? I have either T300 or T800 Series rackmount duplexers available Cheers Gareth Bennett (- Original Message - *From:* Marcus mailto:arkwrights-st...@xtra.co.nz *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Monday, October 26, 2009 1:30 PM *Subject:* [Repeater-Builder] Tait UHF Standby Repeater D-Band is there anyone on this list that resides in NZ and if so/not does anyone have any Cavity filters, if so how much i have a Tait Repeater running D-BAND it was a backup system would like to get it running, forgive the contradiction, the system is fully operational, i would like to put it to some use must be loads of points i have not mentioned, so if need be fire away, i shall answer all my old almost had it brain can conjur up Marcus
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Double Shielded Cable
we get all of ours from Tessco. - Original Message - From: DCFluX To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 11:30 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Double Shielded Cable I just did that as well, nice cables, but it looks like they use lead free solder. Pasternack makes cables, but they have $100 minimum order, which isn't that hard to meet as they are typically 3-6dB more than their competitors. On Sun, Oct 25, 2009 at 8:20 PM, Pointman shield1...@yahoo.com wrote: AI just bought several pre-made connectors from Advanced Receiver Research...but I'm sure you can buy the raw cable and make up your own, as well. de KM3W --- On Sun, 10/25/09, kc8fwd kc8...@hotmail.com wrote: From: kc8fwd kc8...@hotmail.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Double Shielded Cable To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, October 25, 2009, 11:17 PM Hello, What is a good source to get Double Shielded Cable with N connectors to go from the duplexer to receiver and duplexer to transmitter? What kind of coax etc.All info is appreciated Thanke Mike KC8FWD
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Mitrek/MSR200 preamp needed
Joe, I have looked at his product and I am shure it's top quality but a little pricy for our budget. I have one MSR2000 with the factory preamp and it works well. I am hoping someone will see my post that has some spare that we could purchase. I am sure someone out there has a pile of old Mitrek moble units with the preamps just sitting around collecting dust they could turn into a little cash before putting them in a dumpster. Thanks for the post. 73 Wayne --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, burkleoj joeburk...@... wrote: Wayne, I have had much better luck with Angle Linear preamps than the Mitrek/MSR2000 units. Chip does offer a Amateur Discount also. If you absolutely have to have a factory preamp, I will look through my MSR2000/Mitrek VHF units and see if I have one. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Wayne wa5luy@ wrote: I am in need of a HLD4051A or HLD4052A receiver preamp out of a Mitrek or MSR2000. This is the plug in preamp that goes in the helical resonator. This is for vhf 146.xx. If anyone has one or two let me know how much you want. Thanks Wayne
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Double Shielded Cable
Another good source is the RF Connection, www.therfc.com. You can get the RG-400 or RG-142 cables with N-male/female or Mini UHF connectors. They are really high quality. On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 7:19 AM, Maire-Radios maire-rad...@verizon.netwrote: *we get all of ours from Tessco.* ** - Original Message - *From:* DCFluX dcf...@gmail.com *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Sunday, October 25, 2009 11:30 PM *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] Double Shielded Cable I just did that as well, nice cables, but it looks like they use lead free solder. Pasternack makes cables, but they have $100 minimum order, which isn't that hard to meet as they are typically 3-6dB more than their competitors. On Sun, Oct 25, 2009 at 8:20 PM, Pointman shield1...@yahoo.com wrote: AI just bought several pre-made connectors from Advanced Receiver Research...but I'm sure you can buy the raw cable and make up your own, as well. de KM3W --- On *Sun, 10/25/09, kc8fwd kc8...@hotmail.com* wrote: From: kc8fwd kc8...@hotmail.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Double Shielded Cable To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, October 25, 2009, 11:17 PM Hello, What is a good source to get Double Shielded Cable with N connectors to go from the duplexer to receiver and duplexer to transmitter? What kind of coax etc.All info is appreciated Thanke Mike KC8FWD -- James Adkins, KB0NHX Vice-President -- Nixa Amateur Radio Club, Inc. (KC0LUN) Southern Missouri Frequency Coordinator - Missouri Repeater Council www.nixahams.net The Nixa Amateur Radio Club - There is no charge for awesomeness! (Well, only $1.00 per month)
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Double Shielded Cable
Pretty much 1/4 Superflex heliax or Teflon RG-400 coax will be the top choices. Avoid any cable using a foil shield as part of its construction. I always make my own, but Tessco, Hutton, eBay, etc. are typical sources of pre-made cables. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: kc8fwd kc8...@hotmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 11:17 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Double Shielded Cable Hello, What is a good source to get Double Shielded Cable with N connectors to go from the duplexer to receiver and duplexer to transmitter? What kind of coax etc.All info is appreciated Thanke Mike KC8FWD Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Double Shielded Cable
Ok now my next question is which is better the RG 142 or the Super flex? This will be used between the Duplexer and tx rx? Thanks KC8FWD
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Double Shielded Cable
kc8fwd wrote: Ok now my next question is which is better the RG 142 or the Super flex? This will be used between the Duplexer and tx rx? Mike: What length of cables do you need? Tedd Doda, VE3TJD Lazer Audio and Electronics http://www.ve3tjd.com My idea of a symphony: 8 pistons playing the tune my right foot tells them to.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Double Shielded Cable
RG-400 is a better choice than RG-142. RG-400 has a stranded center conductor and will take repeated bending better than the RG-142 with its solid center conductor. Best choice between RG-400 and Superflex will be mostly length (loss) related. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: kc8fwd kc8...@hotmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 9:02 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Double Shielded Cable Ok now my next question is which is better the RG 142 or the Super flex? This will be used between the Duplexer and tx rx? Thanks KC8FWD Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] Re: RLC 3 fs
Would Wayne WA5LUY please send me a note .. the Email address you have given me keeps bouncing back Thank you On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 9:28 AM, Rick Szajkowski va3r...@gmail.com wrote: RLC3 FS comes with 5 radio cards (302.50 X 5 = 1512.50) 1 I/O 1 phone patch (165) asking price $1300 USD + shipping Project fell through so we are sticking with what we have now so you are getting the whole controller for less then the radio cards and phone patch Thanks for looking Rick VA3 RZS
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Double Shielded Cable
RG400 would be a better choice than RG142 as someone else pointed out. If you are going to make your own cables, you then have to decide what cable you are going to be more comfortable putting connectors on. My opinion is that the cable loss for a short jumper of RG400 vs Superflex is negligible, but a poorly installed connector will cause a big difference. 73, Joe, K1ike kc8fwd wrote: Ok now my next question is which is better the RG 142 or the Super flex? This will be used between the Duplexer and tx rx? Thanks KC8FWD
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Mitrek/MSR200 preamp needed
Hi Joe, I'm looking for one as well, if your junk box is that deep! (VHF MSR2000) Thanks, Tim W5FN --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, burkleoj joeburk...@... wrote: Wayne, I have had much better luck with Angle Linear preamps than the Mitrek/MSR2000 units. Chip does offer a Amateur Discount also. If you absolutely have to have a factory preamp, I will look through my MSR2000/Mitrek VHF units and see if I have one. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Wayne wa5luy@ wrote: I am in need of a HLD4051A or HLD4052A receiver preamp out of a Mitrek or MSR2000. This is the plug in preamp that goes in the helical resonator. This is for vhf 146.xx. If anyone has one or two let me know how much you want. Thanks Wayne
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Double Shielded Cable
At 10/26/2009 06:46, you wrote: RG400 would be a better choice than RG142 as someone else pointed out. If you are going to make your own cables, you then have to decide what cable you are going to be more comfortable putting connectors on. My opinion is that the cable loss for a short jumper of RG400 vs Superflex is negligible, but a poorly installed connector will cause a big difference. I use RG223 for my TX RX jumpers unless I need more than 2-3 ft. it's for UHF, then I go to RG214. RG223 is a bit more flexible than RG400. Bob NO6B
[Repeater-Builder] Antenna spacing
This post does not nessicarily relate to repeaters but some of the same calculations can be applied. I am interested in installing another two meter radio in my shack and was wondering what kind of spacing is needed as to not over load either of the radio's receiver. I currently have an icom set up on a j-pole, and I have a 45 watt GM300 that I want to add. What would be the best placement of antennas to reduce desense. or otherwise damage the receivers.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Antenna spacing
Are you planning to install horizontal or vertical seperation? If horizontil it is going to take several hundred feet to not get interferrence from the other. If you can reduce power to lowest and still make the desired contact you can possibly bring them fairly close. I would suggest to use a duplexer and a single antenna. this would protect the other rig from issues quite a bit. On 10/26/09, Jeremy (KB1REQ) kb1...@arrl.net wrote: This post does not nessicarily relate to repeaters but some of the same calculations can be applied. I am interested in installing another two meter radio in my shack and was wondering what kind of spacing is needed as to not over load either of the radio's receiver. I currently have an icom set up on a j-pole, and I have a 45 watt GM300 that I want to add. What would be the best placement of antennas to reduce desense. or otherwise damage the receivers.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Antenna spacing
Jeremy, You did not provide enough information to give you a good answer. How far apart are the frequencies involved? How powerful is the other radio? What I can tell you right away is that vertical separation is far, far, more effective than horizontal separation. If both radios are going to be frequency-agile, that is, there may not always be a fixed separation in frequency, then the simple answer is: Separate the two antennas vertically as much as you can, one over the other, and hope for the best. Use double-shielded cable for feedlines on both antennas. Damage to the receivers is not likely, since most good radios have diode protection on the front ends. After all, look at almost any mobile command post vehicle, and you'll probably see a dozen antennas on the roof- usually no more than a foot or so apart. Although major desense is almost guaranteed when any one of the radios transmits, judicious use of preselectors (such as those made by DCI) can minimize it. -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy (KB1REQ) Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 6:24 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Antenna spacing This post does not necessarily relate to repeaters, but some of the same calculations can be applied. I am interested in installing another two meter radio in my shack and was wondering what kind of spacing is needed as to not over load either of the radio's receivers. I currently have an icom set up on a j-pole, and I have a 45 watt GM300 that I want to add. What would be the best placement of antennas to reduce desense. or otherwise damage the receivers?
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Double Shielded Cable
I'll second that. Joel is a great guy to do business with, and he'll make any cable/connector combination you need. Mark - N9WYS From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Michael Ryan Call Joel at the RF Connection in Gaithersburg, MD . He can make up whatever you want with whatever connectors you want. He is on the web. - Mike -- On Sun, 10/25/09, kc8fwd wrote: Hello, What is a good source to get Double Shielded Cable with N connectors to go from the duplexer to receiver and duplexer to transmitter? What kind of coax etc.All info is appreciated Thanke Mike KC8FWD
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna spacing
The icom runs a max of about 65 watts but almost always less, more like 5 or 10. The antenna I hope to set up is a mobile 5/8 waxe over a ground-plane. My purpose is for skywarn activations, as an NCO it would help to be active one two frequencies nearly simultainously. Any further help is appriceated. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Eric Lemmon wb6...@... wrote: Jeremy, You did not provide enough information to give you a good answer. How far apart are the frequencies involved? How powerful is the other radio? What I can tell you right away is that vertical separation is far, far, more effective than horizontal separation. If both radios are going to be frequency-agile, that is, there may not always be a fixed separation in frequency, then the simple answer is: Separate the two antennas vertically as much as you can, one over the other, and hope for the best. Use double-shielded cable for feedlines on both antennas. Damage to the receivers is not likely, since most good radios have diode protection on the front ends. After all, look at almost any mobile command post vehicle, and you'll probably see a dozen antennas on the roof- usually no more than a foot or so apart. Although major desense is almost guaranteed when any one of the radios transmits, judicious use of preselectors (such as those made by DCI) can minimize it. -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy (KB1REQ) Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 6:24 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Antenna spacing This post does not necessarily relate to repeaters, but some of the same calculations can be applied. I am interested in installing another two meter radio in my shack and was wondering what kind of spacing is needed as to not over load either of the radio's receivers. I currently have an icom set up on a j-pole, and I have a 45 watt GM300 that I want to add. What would be the best placement of antennas to reduce desense. or otherwise damage the receivers?
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Double Shielded Cable
And usually RF Connection will cost less than others, I have requested several bids for custom made doubly shielded cable from RF Connection and others and usually RF Connection has the lowest quote and best delivery terms, plus they don't flinch at a small order like only two cables. Good quality cable and well made connections. 73 Dave WB2FTX - Original Message - From: Mark To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 10:22 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Double Shielded Cable I'll second that. Joel is a great guy to do business with, and he'll make any cable/connector combination you need. Mark - N9WYS From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Michael Ryan Call Joel at the RF Connection in Gaithersburg, MD . He can make up whatever you want with whatever connectors you want. He is on the web. - Mike -- On Sun, 10/25/09, kc8fwd wrote: Hello, What is a good source to get Double Shielded Cable with N connectors to go from the duplexer to receiver and duplexer to transmitter? What kind of coax etc.All info is appreciated Thanke Mike KC8FWD -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.698 / Virus Database: 270.14.33/2461 - Release Date: 10/26/09 16:22:00
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna spacing
Where are your antennas going to be placed ?? On a tower , on pole mast, on the roof, other ??? If i were going to mount 2 mobile antennas on a tower or pole i would try to fabricate an aluminum plate groung plane and mount one antenna on the top side and one one the bottom side then jury rig a aluminum support structure to mount it to the tower. Home Depot or lowes is a good source for aluminum angle,tube and sheet, but there are other sources as well. A little injunuity and imagination will get the job down. I'll send a photo of one of the mounts i built for antennas on my roof that i use for digi-peaters. along with some other suggestions. Doug N3DAB --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Jeremy (KB1REQ) kb1...@... wrote: The icom runs a max of about 65 watts but almost always less, more like 5 or 10. The antenna I hope to set up is a mobile 5/8 waxe over a ground-plane. My purpose is for skywarn activations, as an NCO it would help to be active one two frequencies nearly simultainously. Any further help is appriceated. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Eric Lemmon wb6fly@ wrote: Jeremy, You did not provide enough information to give you a good answer. How far apart are the frequencies involved? How powerful is the other radio? What I can tell you right away is that vertical separation is far, far, more effective than horizontal separation. If both radios are going to be frequency-agile, that is, there may not always be a fixed separation in frequency, then the simple answer is: Separate the two antennas vertically as much as you can, one over the other, and hope for the best. Use double-shielded cable for feedlines on both antennas. Damage to the receivers is not likely, since most good radios have diode protection on the front ends. After all, look at almost any mobile command post vehicle, and you'll probably see a dozen antennas on the roof- usually no more than a foot or so apart. Although major desense is almost guaranteed when any one of the radios transmits, judicious use of preselectors (such as those made by DCI) can minimize it. -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy (KB1REQ) Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 6:24 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Antenna spacing This post does not necessarily relate to repeaters, but some of the same calculations can be applied. I am interested in installing another two meter radio in my shack and was wondering what kind of spacing is needed as to not over load either of the radio's receivers. I currently have an icom set up on a j-pole, and I have a 45 watt GM300 that I want to add. What would be the best placement of antennas to reduce desense. or otherwise damage the receivers?
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna spacing
Very difficult to guess with out some specific information so two answers 42 or as far apart in differing vertical and horizontal planes as practicable To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: kb1...@arrl.net Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 02:48:42 + Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna spacing The icom runs a max of about 65 watts but almost always less, more like 5 or 10. The antenna I hope to set up is a mobile 5/8 waxe over a ground-plane. My purpose is for skywarn activations, as an NCO it would help to be active one two frequencies nearly simultainously. Any further help is appriceated. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Eric Lemmon wb6...@... wrote: Jeremy, You did not provide enough information to give you a good answer. How far apart are the frequencies involved? How powerful is the other radio? What I can tell you right away is that vertical separation is far, far, more effective than horizontal separation. If both radios are going to be frequency-agile, that is, there may not always be a fixed separation in frequency, then the simple answer is: Separate the two antennas vertically as much as you can, one over the other, and hope for the best. Use double-shielded cable for feedlines on both antennas. Damage to the receivers is not likely, since most good radios have diode protection on the front ends. After all, look at almost any mobile command post vehicle, and you'll probably see a dozen antennas on the roof- usually no more than a foot or so apart. Although major desense is almost guaranteed when any one of the radios transmits, judicious use of preselectors (such as those made by DCI) can minimize it. -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy (KB1REQ) Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 6:24 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Antenna spacing This post does not necessarily relate to repeaters, but some of the same calculations can be applied. I am interested in installing another two meter radio in my shack and was wondering what kind of spacing is needed as to not over load either of the radio's receivers. I currently have an icom set up on a j-pole, and I have a 45 watt GM300 that I want to add. What would be the best placement of antennas to reduce desense. or otherwise damage the receivers? _ View photos of singles in your area Click Here http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/150855801/direct/01/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna spacing
under the description you give you can put them on top of each other separated by a 1/2 wave or better without any real problems. if you are only going to transmit on one at a time then you wont have any reall issues. You will be able to run up to about 25 W without any problems that I can think of. I run a couple radios here at home and have the antennas relative close and only have problems when i kick up over 25W and then it is just some noise but nothing strong enough to kill the receive on the other rig. You can still use a duplexer and run two rigs to same antenna without any problems as well. then you would only have the one coax to worry about really. tends to make things cleaner looking on the install too! On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 9:48 PM, Jeremy (KB1REQ) kb1...@arrl.net wrote: The icom runs a max of about 65 watts but almost always less, more like 5 or 10. The antenna I hope to set up is a mobile 5/8 waxe over a ground-plane. My purpose is for skywarn activations, as an NCO it would help to be active one two frequencies nearly simultainously. Any further help is appriceated. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com, Eric Lemmon wb6...@... wrote: Jeremy, You did not provide enough information to give you a good answer. How far apart are the frequencies involved? How powerful is the other radio? What I can tell you right away is that vertical separation is far, far, more effective than horizontal separation. If both radios are going to be frequency-agile, that is, there may not always be a fixed separation in frequency, then the simple answer is: Separate the two antennas vertically as much as you can, one over the other, and hope for the best. Use double-shielded cable for feedlines on both antennas. Damage to the receivers is not likely, since most good radios have diode protection on the front ends. After all, look at almost any mobile command post vehicle, and you'll probably see a dozen antennas on the roof- usually no more than a foot or so apart. Although major desense is almost guaranteed when any one of the radios transmits, judicious use of preselectors (such as those made by DCI) can minimize it. -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy (KB1REQ) Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 6:24 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Antenna spacing This post does not necessarily relate to repeaters, but some of the same calculations can be applied. I am interested in installing another two meter radio in my shack and was wondering what kind of spacing is needed as to not over load either of the radio's receivers. I currently have an icom set up on a j-pole, and I have a 45 watt GM300 that I want to add. What would be the best placement of antennas to reduce desense. or otherwise damage the receivers?
