Re: [silk] rant - Re: Wanted: Exceptional parents
On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 8:12 AM, Udhay Shankar N [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kiran Jonnalagadda wrote, [on 4/10/2008 7:35 AM]: Aren't there a number of studies that say the peer group matters more than the parenting? Citations? Well, would it REALLY help to have them? This seems like the kind of question that can keep a great number of career researchers busy for any number of years arguing both sides of the position. Cheeni
Re: [silk] rant - Re: Wanted: Exceptional parents
On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 10:06 AM, Deepa Mohan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: H I enjoyed that very,very much. (Udhay will probably kill me for not adding a debatable opinion but only appreciating what someone else has written..but so what!)...I suppose the only form of life you DID regularly bring home were viruses and germs! :) that wild-eyed enthusiasm gets cured in the face of landlords unwilling to rent spaces to assorted stray cats/dogs accompanied by humans. Have landlords changed much over time?
Re: [silk] rant - Re: Wanted: Exceptional parents
On 10/04/2008, Udhay Shankar N [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kiran Jonnalagadda wrote, [on 4/10/2008 7:35 AM]: Aren't there a number of studies that say the peer group matters more than the parenting? Citations? Udhay -- ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com)) Steven Pinker's The Blank Slate for one.
[silk] Google Apps email spam filter
I am on a mailing list that runs on a server hosted in Kenya, about 50% of the email originating from the list gets consistently flagged as spam by GMail... (Note: this does not happen to the many other mailing lists that i am on ). What could be the problem ? (The list admin has tried various things like subsituting the FROM: header address...but to no avail. Also note the problem began recently, nothing significant was changed on the server ) Any ideas, suggestions what the problem could be ? Google blacklisting gone awry ? ashok
Re: [silk] rant - Re: Wanted: Exceptional parents
Aren't there a number of studies that say the peer group matters more than the parenting? I too have vague memories of reading something along the lines of how, *beyond a certain age*, the child's peer group has more of an influence on the child than the parents. Even if true, given that the parents have a lock on the child's mind for quite a few years, and have great influence in controlling the peer group (which school, etc) for quite a long time after that..I think they are still the key factor. Badri
Re: [silk] rant - Re: Wanted: Exceptional parents
On Thursday 10 Apr 2008 2:57:33 pm Badri Natarajan wrote: Aren't there a number of studies that say the peer group matters more than the parenting? I too have vague memories of reading something along the lines of how, *beyond a certain age*, the child's peer group has more of an influence on the child than the parents. Even if true, given that the parents have a lock on the child's mind for quite a few years, and have great influence in controlling the peer group (which school, etc) for quite a long time after that..I think they are still the key factor. Badri Personally speaking (as a parent and as an advisor to parents who have come with complaints about children wrongly suspected to have surgical illness) I have found that the peer group trouble starts only after age 7 or 8. Parental influences can be seen before then but tend to be harmless because the child has not had time and freedom to really use her pathetic upbringing by ignorant and/or uncaring parents (and grandparents in th Indian context). But after age 8 there is an interesting feedback loop that involves the parents too. Child X has a friend (child Y) in her peer group whose parents themselves are unable to cope with child Y's behavior and either use bribery and total acquiescence (on the one hand) or threats and punishment (on the other hand) to control their child. Child Y's moods spill over on to Child X, who goes to her parents and makes the very unreasonable demands that child Y made, expecting to get the kind of response that Child Y got. The parents of Child X end up having to correct their own child and somehow compensate for errors made by Child Y's parents which may be deemed right or wrong depending on what they did. And this complex process involves several different individuals. Ever single parent among this peer group of children will be found to have concerns and difficulty in coping - setting off a chain that hits some other parent. All in all it can be trying for parents, good or bad. So I believe that it could be wrong to say that one or the other have greater influence. Both parents and peer group are inextricably involved with any given child and the influence of one cannot be completely isolated. shiv
[silk] Mexican Food in India
I've been wondering why there is an acute lack of *any* restaurant, in Bangalore, that serves Mexican food. I'm not sure if this is true of the rest of India too... A friend contrasted this to the proliferation of Chinese and Italian (or rather, Indian versions) restaurants because, in his opinion, the base cuisine, Mexican, is far too similar to Indian food as against Chinese and Italian cuisines and consequently, the latter offer a greater degree of conversion and assimilation to Indian tastes and that this process of conversion and assimilation, Indian-isation if you will, is important to local adaptability and acceptance. What does the list think? And are there any decent Mexican joints in and outside of Bangalore? Does anyone else bemoan the lack of enchiladas and things of that ilk? Cheers! Gautam -- Please read our new blog at: http://blog.prathambooks.org/ Join our Facebook Page too: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Pratham-Books/9307274926
Re: [silk] rant - Re: Wanted: Exceptional parents
On 10-Apr-08, at 4:14 PM, ss wrote: So I believe that it could be wrong to say that one or the other have greater influence. Both parents and peer group are inextricably involved with any given child and the influence of one cannot be completely isolated. The material I was reading tended to: Bad parenting + good peers = some hope Good parenting + bad peers = disaster And hence the greater emphasis on the peer group.
Re: [silk] Mexican Food in India
Gautam John [10/04/08 16:30 +0530]: I've been wondering why there is an acute lack of *any* restaurant, in Bangalore, that serves Mexican food. I'm not sure if this is true of the rest of India too... Madras has one - not that it is very authentic http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/mp/2003/10/14/stories/2003101400290100.htm Don Pepe on Cathedral Road srs
Re: [silk] Mexican Food in India
On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 4:53 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gautam John [10/04/08 16:30 +0530]: I've been wondering why there is an acute lack of *any* restaurant, in Bangalore, that serves Mexican food. I'm not sure if this is true of the rest of India too... Madras has one - not that it is very authentic http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/mp/2003/10/14/stories/2003101400290100.htm Don Pepe on Cathedral Road srs HUH.It ain't good. I haven't responded because I have only had American Mexican food and that may probably not be authentic. Head Kook, what do you say? Deepa.
Re: [silk] Mexican Food in India
On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Gautam John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been wondering why there is an acute lack of *any* restaurant, in Bangalore, that serves Mexican food. I'm not sure if this is true of the rest of India too... There used to be one - a not very good one - in the hotel formerly known as Central Park in Manipal Centre. I am told that the hotel has changed names now. This was about eight years ago. I can't remember the name of the place. The food was not really Mexican or even Tex-Mex (think chappatis with rajma), but what made it worse was the live 'music' - this really bad singer with a guitar and a harmonica mounted on a stand around his neck who used to assault unsuspecting diners with requests for requests. We stopped going there only because of him. Ram
Re: [silk] All done with mirrors
The visual neurons are still intact, and they're firing off, telling the brain one thing, Tsao said. The propriaceptive neurons are firing off, telling the brain something else. ...My thinking is that there is some sort of center in the brain that coordinates these signals. ... Somehow, this mismatched feedback is what's generating the sensation that the limb is frozen or in pain. The Exploratorium in SF used to have an exhibit consisting of two tightly interwoven coils, about the right size to grasp. Push one button, and tepid water would flow through one coil. Push the other button, and very cold water would flow through the other. The amazing thing was that putting one hand on the coils while pushing both buttons with the other wouldn't result in a cool sensation, midway between the two, but instead a very hot, burning sensation. Apparently the brain gets one set of signals encoding (heat,mild) but another set that encodes (cold,extreme) and resolves them by generating a (heat,extreme) sensation. One might argue that we're only set up to pass the evolutionarily-run unit tests; neither steep temperature gradients nor limb loss are common enough to warrant implementing accurate responses. -Dave
Re: [silk] rant - Re: Wanted: Exceptional parents
On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 5:29 PM, Ingrid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Except that in choosing both residential neighbourhoods and schools, parents (usually) determine peer group as well. Which brings us back to square one -- my worry about the peer group at most non-traditional schools and Ramjee's contention that it was irrelevant. -- b
Re: [silk] Mexican Food in India
On 4/10/08, Gautam John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been wondering why there is an acute lack of *any* restaurant, in Bangalore, that serves Mexican food. I'm not sure if this is true of the rest of India too... Way back when, in the late 80s, there was a Mexican restaurant in Bangalore, on Church Street or thereabouts I believe. It was a Mexican fast food place. A bunch of us from high school (Bishop Cottons) went there once, and most of us thought it was horrible -- although most of us had nothing to compare it to. I wonder if anyone else remembers this place and remembers it as being as bad as I thought it was. I certainly can't think of any Mexican restaurants anywhere in India, although I've never been too big a fan of Mexican food so I never looked during any of my visits/stays. DK
Re: [silk] rant - Re: Wanted: Exceptional parents
On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 6:30 PM, Biju Chacko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 5:29 PM, Ingrid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Except that in choosing both residential neighbourhoods and schools, parents (usually) determine peer group as well. Which brings us back to square one -- my worry about the peer group at most non-traditional schools and Ramjee's contention that it was irrelevant. -- b I would tend to agree with Kiran/Jace about the influence of the peer group. I was, I think, lucky to have a solid middle-class peer group for our daughter throughout her school life (though probably ours was the smallest bank balance of all of the classmates' parents)we belong to a generation where simplicity was not equated to cheap. But I do know some friends' children who went to more elitist schools after their Class Ten, and then to Ivy League colleges, who still have shaped up pretty well; they are strong individuals on whom the others can lean, not vice versa, and their heads are firmly on their shoulders and their feet are firmly on the ground...so then, maybe, the parents' values got inculcated by then Oh well, Ramjee and Kiran can battle it out, we can watch. Deepa.
Re: [silk] Mexican Food in India
On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 6:24 PM, Ramakrishnan Sundaram [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Gautam John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been wondering why there is an acute lack of *any* restaurant, in Bangalore, that serves Mexican food. I'm not sure if this is true of the rest of India too... There used to be one - a not very good one - in the hotel formerly known as Central Park in Manipal Centre. I am told that the hotel has changed names now. This was about eight years ago. I can't remember the name of the place. The food was not really Mexican or even Tex-Mex (think chappatis with rajma), but what made it worse was the live 'music' - this really bad singer with a guitar and a harmonica mounted on a stand around his neck who used to assault unsuspecting diners with requests for requests. We stopped going there only because of him. Ram oh YES RamI think it was called Orange County (before the resort in Coorg came up) and what an accurate description of that ...er...musician (I was told that he died, and I strongly suspected it was either by eating the food or at the hands of one of the cornered diners). We stopped going there for several reasons, but he and the food were two of them. Strange nostalgia...to remember bad food and bad music and smile. Deepa. O
Re: [silk] Mexican Food in India
I have had Mexican food in what is now Le Meridien in Bangalore. I got diarrhea after eating the stuff. In fact another restaurant in the premises serves Sushi - which was OK. shiv On Thursday 10 Apr 2008 4:30:05 pm Gautam John wrote: I've been wondering why there is an acute lack of *any* restaurant, in Bangalore, that serves Mexican food. I'm not sure if this is true of the rest of India too... A friend contrasted this to the proliferation of Chinese and Italian (or rather, Indian versions) restaurants because, in his opinion, the base cuisine, Mexican, is far too similar to Indian food as against Chinese and Italian cuisines and consequently, the latter offer a greater degree of conversion and assimilation to Indian tastes and that this process of conversion and assimilation, Indian-isation if you will, is important to local adaptability and acceptance. What does the list think? And are there any decent Mexican joints in and outside of Bangalore? Does anyone else bemoan the lack of enchiladas and things of that ilk? Cheers! Gautam
Re: [silk] rant - Re: Wanted: Exceptional parents
On Thursday 10 Apr 2008 4:39:43 pm Kiran Jonnalagadda wrote: Bad parenting + good peers = some hope Good parenting + bad peers = disaster Interesting but it sounds like an escape route for parents - a clause that can always be quoted as an excuse. The peer group cannot really be checked - so the burden falls on the parents to bend or modify the influences. Not all parents can cope. They may be good parents but if they can't cope it translates to the same as bad parenting There is no easy route. shiv
Re: [silk] Mexican Food in India
On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 7:00 AM, Gautam John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been wondering why there is an acute lack of *any* restaurant, in Bangalore, that serves Mexican food. I'm not sure if this is true of the rest of India too... A friend contrasted this to the proliferation of Chinese and Italian (or rather, Indian versions) restaurants because, in his opinion, the base cuisine, Mexican, is far too similar to Indian food as against Chinese and Italian cuisines and consequently, the latter offer a greater degree of conversion and assimilation to Indian tastes and that this process of conversion and assimilation, Indian-isation if you will, is important to local adaptability and acceptance. What does the list think? And are there any decent Mexican joints in and outside of Bangalore? Does anyone else bemoan the lack of enchiladas and things of that ilk? My explanation would be economic and sociological rather than culinary. My experience is that the only place there are Mexican restaurants anywhere in the world are places where there are Mexican (and South American) immigrants. For the most part that only happens in countries where 1) there is a demand for relatively cheap labor (relative to what locals charge) and 2) there is relatively easy access for the immigrants. Which ends up being, for all practical purposes, the USA, and to a lesser extent other rich western countries. Without that you're missing large enough demand for the food, and large enough supply of people who can cook it. Granted there is demand from people who have travelled to Mexico, or to other places where Mexican food is made. Unlike Italian though, there is almost no tradition of high-end cusine in Mexican cooking, outside of Mexico. (Inside Mexico is another story, Mexican regional cuisines are many and varied, but rarely seen outside of Mexico - the occasional Red Snapper Vera Cruz or Cochinita Pibil notwithstanding.) Without being able to command premium prices, it would be hard to succeed selling Mexican food into a market with limited demand. Cooking Mexican food is not that hard to do at home, it's one of the cuisines I considered while I was living in Bangalore. I remember asking Gautam if it might be possible to get a local miller to grind me some masa harina (ground maize flour with lime, used as the basis for making tortillas and tamales.) I recommend any of Diana Kennedy's books if you want to try, I think local substitutes for most of the ingredients should be easily available. The culinary theory is interesting though. I'm not sure I completely buy it, Mexican food does use a fair amount of cumin, garlic, and onion, and the basic flavor palette is pretty similar IMO. However Mexican cooking I think the flavors are generally more distinct, and there are fewer of them in any one dish. There's also more brightness in the heavier use of acidifiers, citrus and vinegar in particular - and of course the prominent use of ground dried chilies in different varieties than I see in India. I haven't really seen anything that would substitute for a dried poblano, though I admit I didn't look too hard. Enchiladas would be dead simple though. I'll be visiting in a few weeks, maybe we can get together and make enchiladas. -- Charles
Re: [silk] rant - Re: Wanted: Exceptional parents
On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 10:08 AM, ss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thursday 10 Apr 2008 4:39:43 pm Kiran Jonnalagadda wrote: Bad parenting + good peers = some hope Good parenting + bad peers = disaster Interesting but it sounds like an escape route for parents - a clause that can always be quoted as an excuse. The peer group cannot really be checked - so the burden falls on the parents to bend or modify the influences. Not all parents can cope. They may be good parents but if they can't cope it translates to the same as bad parenting There is no easy route. We home schooled our children. Not a popular option in India I think, and one can argue whether that puts our kids in the good peers or bad peers equation, but I'm pretty happy with the results. -- Charles
Re: [silk] rant - Re: Wanted: Exceptional parents
We home schooled our children. Not a popular option in India I think, and one can argue whether that puts our kids in the good peers or bad peers equation, but I'm pretty happy with the results. -- Charles NOT an option in India... Deepa.
Re: [silk] Mexican Food in India
On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 7:31 PM, Deepa Mohan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: oh YES RamI think it was called Orange County (before the resort in Coorg came up) and what an accurate description of that ...er...musician (I was told that he died, and I strongly suspected it was either by eating the food or at the hands of one of the cornered diners). We stopped going there for several reasons, but he and the food were two of them. Strange nostalgia...to remember bad food and bad music and smile. Who's smiling? Bad food is inexcusable. Bad music should be punishable by enforced listening to Britney Spears. Yes, it was Orange County. Ram
Re: [silk] Mexican Food in India
Dave Kumar wrote, [on 4/10/2008 7:05 PM]: Way back when, in the late 80s, there was a Mexican restaurant in Bangalore, on Church Street or thereabouts I believe. It was a Mexican fast food place. Maybe you're thinking of Pecos, in its first avatar? IIRC, it started off as a Mexican food place. There was also one on Lady Curzon Road near Bowring Hospital that wasn't bad. I forget the name now. Udhay -- ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))
Re: [silk] rant - Re: Wanted: Exceptional parents
On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 7:46 PM, Charles Haynes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We home schooled our children. Not a popular option in India I think, It's an option only if you are confident you have the ability to home school your children. I have doubts about my teaching skills. Ram
Re: [silk] Mexican Food in India
On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 8:28 PM, Udhay Shankar N [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There was also one on Lady Curzon Road near Bowring Hospital that wasn't bad. I forget the name now. Latino's. It was, IIRC, terrible. Cheesy potato skins. -- Please read our new blog at: http://blog.prathambooks.org/ Join our Facebook Page too: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Pratham-Books/9307274926
Re: [silk] Mexican Food in India
On 4/10/08, Udhay Shankar N [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dave Kumar wrote, [on 4/10/2008 7:05 PM]: Way back when, in the late 80s, there was a Mexican restaurant in Bangalore, on Church Street or thereabouts I believe. It was a Mexican fast food place. Maybe you're thinking of Pecos, in its first avatar? IIRC, it started off as a Mexican food place. Wow, you know what, that is entirely possible. My memory is fading, but the place I'm thinking of certainly was around where Pecos is today. Hard to imagine that that bad Mexican restaurant we went to while in high school is now the most popular bar among my former national law school students
Re: [silk] Mexican Food in India
Charles Haynes wrote, [on 4/10/2008 7:43 PM]: Enchiladas would be dead simple though. I'll be visiting in a few weeks, maybe we can get together and make enchiladas. So we have the next silkmeet all set then. Bring some Tequila. :) Udhay -- ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))
Re: [silk] Mexican Food in India
Gautam John wrote, [on 4/10/2008 8:32 PM]: There was also one on Lady Curzon Road near Bowring Hospital that wasn't bad. I forget the name now. Latino's. It was, IIRC, terrible. Cheesy potato skins. Right. I remember it for its sizzlers (not Mexican, but tasty nonetheless.) Udhay -- ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))
Re: [silk] Mexican Food in India
Udhay Shankar N [10/04/08 20:32 +0530]: Charles Haynes wrote, [on 4/10/2008 7:43 PM]: Enchiladas would be dead simple though. I'll be visiting in a few weeks, maybe we can get together and make enchiladas. So we have the next silkmeet all set then. Bring some Tequila. :) Bring lots. Stream of consciousness posts to silk, remember?
Re: [silk] rant - Re: Wanted: Exceptional parents
On 4/10/08, Deepa Mohan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We home schooled our children. Not a popular option in India I think, and one can argue whether that puts our kids in the good peers or bad peers equation, but I'm pretty happy with the results. -- Charles NOT an option in India... Deepa. Um, I would agree with Charles - it is not a popular option in India, AFAIK. But there are quite a few homeschoolers in India that I know of, in spite of the fact that unlike US, India did not have any political/belief background/reaction and groundswell. There are also a few mailing-lists (surprise, surprise!) for these folks and there are regular eat-togethers and more eatings; however the snr in the lists is not very high unfortunately, as a few guys hog the ip traffic. Actually Deepa, it is definitely an option(and tonnes of work/discipline), if one does not hedge and believes in futures, ha. __r. -- http://www.qsl.net/vu2sro/ The lyfe so short, the Craft so long to lerne. -- Geoffrey Chaucer (The Assembly of Fowles)
Re: [silk] Google Apps email spam filter
Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: ashok _ [10/04/08 11:24 +0300]: I am on a mailing list that runs on a server hosted in Kenya, about 50% of the email originating from the list gets consistently flagged as spam by GMail... (Note: this does not happen to the many other mailing lists that i am on ). What could be the problem ? You on a shared server or is it dedicated? Sorry didnt get your reply (is there a list delivery problem on silk-list ?)... picked this up from the yahoo group archive The server we are running is a dedicated server that also runs an IRC server. The problem appears to have started from the middle of March. Funny thing, we just did a restart of everything (including the server), and the number of list emails going into gmail spam has dropped substantially (it seemed to affect only gmail not spamassasin). ashok
Re: [silk] Mexican Food in India
On 10 Apr 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't remember the name of the place. Pinch of Jazz ? On the 5th floor ? The food was not really Mexican or even Tex-Mex (think chappatis with rajma), I remember the cuisine being billed as Cajun. I agree with the not very good part though. but what made it worse was the live 'music' - this really bad singer with a guitar and a harmonica mounted on a stand around his neck who used to assault unsuspecting diners with requests for requests. An old teacher of mine used to perform there with his band. I don't think that he ever wore a harmonica like that though. -- Alok The absence of labels [in ECL] is probably a good thing. -- T. Cheatham
[silk] p2p? nah! - was Re: Wanted: Exceptional parents
On 4/10/08, Biju Chacko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 5:29 PM, Ingrid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Except that in choosing both residential neighbourhoods and schools, parents (usually) determine peer group as well. Which brings us back to square one -- my worry about the peer group at most non-traditional schools and Ramjee's contention that it was irrelevant. Nonnono, I am not saying that peer group is irrelevant. I am merely hinting at the possibility that it's effect is minimal and that the damage/goodwork done to the child (direclty and indirectly) is already done by the time peers enter the picture. IMO, it is the teen stage in which peer group becomes important enough to relate to - but then, kids from reasonably peaceful homes (to be honest, it is increasingly difficult to find nice examples, but the fact is that there ARE quite a few canonical and functional ones) when they get to this stage are so self assured and full of self esteem that they KNOW what would work who how to relate to etc, irrespective of being in the midst of kids from 'other' backgrounds. This is because, these kids would have enjoyed the joy of 'centered' households, loving (not spoiling) kind of parents, nurturing etc. These are all big words, but there is no big magic here, the simple fundas work. IMO, the state of the parents is so important and happens early enough to the child that, rest of the life of the poor/rich child is like a palimpsest. One can actually peel a person layer by layer and trace it down to (mainly) the sad state of parentage, in many cases. Obviously, some gadenken experiments are in chaos here. The important thing that a parent can pass on to the child (apart from self esteem / persistence / honest work) is that there are choices and more choices in life and that one does not have to be like *this* or *that* (and get bogged down conveniently blaming the 'circumstances'). And, the kids from the centered houseolds have well formed thoughts and opinions, and as that illustrious essay on self reliance (emerson?) says, they have not one chance, but a thousand chances. On the verge of sounding mumbo-jumboish, if one sincerely wants the kids to be happy and be endowed with sound 'values,' I would say that synchronicity will start kicking in, and so all jung men and woemen, listen. Offline, I can give you references of a few folks that I know, who are doing this kind of job (IMO, this is ONE important job that any parent HAS to do); however, I have to ask them first, which please note. And, sorry Udhay, I cant give any 'citations' and you very well know that I am only capable of incitations. hic Okay, I am YET to find any examples of kids who turn out to be rudderless / dysfunctional / sad citizens, from these kinds of households. To be honest, there are ALSO kids who have learnt to be centered etc, when they blossom into adulthood, even from sorry homes (I have one such example), but then these are rare exceptions and they have had other nurturing adults around them in their childhood. All said and done, I feel that parents have to be the change they have to see, if they don't want to feel shortchanged in the parenting process, that is. It is a bloody big mindnumbing responsibility and one will have nagging self doubts for company till he/she starts fertilizing the daffodils, so we can conveniently say that parents are only responsible to bring forth the sad child and the rest will be taken care of by peers. P2P (parent to peer, sorry) transfer of responsibility considered definitely harmful. Should stop the torrent, sorry. Typically, many of the non traditional schools are small in size, have only a few 'dedicated' folks behind the show, they subscribe to some didactic philosophy (Montessori/Steiner/Horseburgh/Krishnamurthy/Neill/MK Gandhi/...) - so folks who are comfy with that philosophy or an admix of various streams of them would send their kids to these schools; also by and large these schools tend to have a good 'arts' exposure and generally the kids are happy. Small is beautiful may be, but it has all kinds of real costs associated with it, in spite of the fact that the 'teachers' there actually get only a pittance as salary. Anyway, the fees have to be high (circa 1 lac indian rupees per annum) to support the school (no body, IMO has become rich running an 'alternative' school) and to cover the costs of providing education for 'free' to deserving scholars (who are anywhere between 15-20% in these kinds of schools, I have some data). Hence the kids that go to these schools have to afford this and they would obviously from monied parentage. Fact. But in the schools that I know, they are very clear about the dilemmas (probably more like nlemmas with n-10) that they have to address and the positive effect they have to create in the minds of kids. Hence, as long as a given kid has had a good mooring at the homefront, there should not be any peer issue, I
Re: [silk] Mexican Food in India
On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Gautam John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been wondering why there is an acute lack of *any* restaurant, in Bangalore, that serves Mexican food. I'm not sure if this is true of the rest of India too... Indi Joes is a chain found at least in Bangalore and Hyderabad that serves tex-mex cuisine. I don't need to tell you that it's a pale comparison to any palate that's used to the real stuff. However the ambiance is nice, and at least in the one I've been to in Bangalore their happy hours are really long, and really happy. Hyderabad apparently doesn't need booze to remain happy, so ... Cheeni
Re: [silk] p2p? nah! - was Re: Wanted: Exceptional parents
On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 9:29 AM, Ramjee Swaminathan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Typically, many of the non traditional schools are small in size, have only a few 'dedicated' folks behind the show, they subscribe to some didactic philosophy (Montessori/Steiner/Horseburgh/Krishnamurthy/Neill/MK Gandhi/...) - so folks who are comfy with that philosophy or an admix of various streams of them would send their kids to these schools; also by and large these schools tend to have a good 'arts' exposure and generally the kids are happy. When I was growing up, my parents lacked the money or connections or even knowledge to be able to send me to schools like Rishi Valley. They did send me to pretty good mainstream disciplinarian, 100% success rate (Most of our students get into IIT) schools by their standards. However, I thoroughly detested most of these schools. There were a handful of friends and teachers (mostly Geography and English teachers. Hmmm. Wonder why Geo and English teachers are usually the most helpful) who made the experience bearable. For a long time after I left school I believed my education (not learning) could have fared better at a school like Rishi Valley. However, I have started having second thoughts about this. It is true that mainstream schools work on a cookie cutter model churning out IIT and AIIMS students at a steady clip. These schools also force adolescents to learn the System in which the school operates and game it to succeed in it. I am beginning to wonder whether this ability to learn about how a System operates and to hack it is as important as creative, pressure-less nurturing for the long term success of an individual. Thaths -- Bart: We were just planning the father-son river rafting trip. Homer: Hehe. You don't have a son. Sudhakar Chandra Slacker Without Borders
Re: [silk] p2p? nah! - was Re: Wanted: Exceptional parents
On 4/10/08, Thaths [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I was growing up, my parents lacked the money or connections or even knowledge to be able to send me to schools like Rishi Valley. They did send me to pretty good mainstream disciplinarian, 100% success rate (Most of our students get into IIT) schools by their standards. However, I thoroughly detested most of these schools. There were a handful of friends and teachers (mostly Geography and English teachers. Hmmm. Wonder why Geo and English teachers are usually the most helpful) who made the experience bearable. For a long time after I left school I believed my education (not learning) could have fared better at a school like Rishi Valley. Same boat, but I was a rat. :-) However, I have started having second thoughts about this. It is true that mainstream schools work on a cookie cutter model churning out IIT and AIIMS students at a steady clip. These schools also force adolescents to learn the System in which the school operates and game it to succeed in it. I am beginning to wonder whether this ability to learn about how a System operates and to hack it is as important as creative, pressure-less nurturing for the long term success of an individual. Thaths, I agree with your take. In many of the 'alternative' schools (but not in all schools) 'skills' such as in math or other sciences is looked down upon as opposed to the virtues of painting or pottery or pottering around which are supposed to be elevating and all that The problem is that many folks artificially create this schism either because of their own fears about math or because of the inadequacy of the system to support regular teachers (who could also be phenomenal). On the contrary the 'regular' school folks talk ill of these arty-farty schools which churn out 'misfits' whether or not their contention is supported by facts. Actually IMO fine/performing arts don't have to be seen in opposition to math kinda stuff, They are NOT mutually exclusive streams. In the school that we are associated with, we have a reasonably happy Midway - math is not frowned upon, art is not considered snooty etc etc - though our kids cannot SAT thru exams and fly to Chicago, not yet. o har har... (sorry) Pressureless nurturing: Actually, when a kid's imagination is kindled and captured, the kid bloody slogs, day in and day out, in her/his pursuit of what the kid wants to know/systhesize/digest - whether it is about planets or differential equations of butterflies. To see the kids who create their own deadlines (stretch ones at that) and take help when they want is, truly amazing. I have been fortunate to see these kinds of 'magic' - how else one could describe the wonderful thing? Actually in a few 'alt' schools there IS pressure, but it is not a mindnumbing one at all. :-) System hacking: I hope what you mean by this is not system beating :-) - the latter, the exclusive reserve of so many smart scoundrels that I know, many of them from IITs The point that I am trying to grapple with / articlulate (may be mathiculate also) is that - If a 'normalized' child whose developmental stages are adequately addressed at appropriate times, sets his heart at a task, it bloody well accomplishes that. This would be true of any school. Rules of the game: What we need to do is to help/assist the kid, giving it a nurturing environment. This does NOT mean that the kids from 'alt' schools are NOT primed to face the competitive world. IMO, in a canonical schooling system, the kid is trained to understand the rules of game/social_system, understand one's place in it, be clear about what one wants to do and pursue it with single minded devotion. Since you brought up the rishivalley topic, I would say that many of my batchmates were actually from rishivalley and I studied in one of these offending 'elite' engg schools; mea culpa. These folks had interesting ingmarbergmanish sensibilities coupled with the killer instinct of toshiro mifune.A nice combo, I think. Anyway, the point is that regular or irregular schools, the onus is actually on the parents. What we need to do is to make the child blossom on its own, giving it a good environment, choices, and feedback as parents and as folks not interested in Dgeneration . As the Godfather2 dialogue goes - it is difficult, but not impossible. ;-) What I need to do is to just shut up and start sleeping, __r. -- http://www.qsl.net/vu2sro/ The lyfe so short, the Craft so long to lerne. -- Geoffrey Chaucer (The Assembly of Fowles)
Re: [silk] p2p? nah! - was Re: Wanted: Exceptional parents
On Thursday 10 Apr 2008 9:59:14 pm Ramjee Swaminathan wrote: I am merely hinting at the possibility that it's effect is minimal and that the damage/goodwork done to the child (direclty and indirectly) is already done by the time peers enter the picture. True IMO. The peer group become really important when trust has not already been built up between parent and child. If the peer group becomes more important than the parent - it's too late. shiv
Re: [silk] Google Apps email spam filter
ashok _ [10/04/08 18:58 +0300]: Sorry didnt get your reply (is there a list delivery problem on silk-list ?)... picked this up from the yahoo group archive none here. I run the server myself so .. The server we are running is a dedicated server that also runs an IRC server. The problem appears to have started from the middle of March. Did you have an irc kiddy playing games, or did you get a hacked php / cgi script sending spam etc around that time?
Re: [silk] Copying is Good: Different is not better
On 4/10/08, ashok _ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Different is not better At Intel's advanced-chip plants, normal consistency doesn't cut it: The company even copies the air in the room http://www.oregonlive.com/business/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/business/1194591355141180.xmlcoll=7 Isnt this what McDonalds does to every franchise that opens up around the world for their staple recipes?
Re: [silk] Copying is Good: Different is not better
On Thursday 10 Apr 2008 9:12:16 pm ashok _ wrote: Imagine a friend serves you an especially delicious cake and offers to share the recipe. Seems like something you could make, until you get a look at the ingredients: The eggs must come from the same farm where your friend got hers. Flour, ground from the same crop of wheat. Water from the same tap. That's how Intel makes its computer chips: It takes recipes cooked up by its Hillsboro engineers, then copies them exactly at factories in such far-flung locales as Arizona, New Mexico and Israel. Actually this sounds like typical corporate propaganda via an advertorial, of which one sees a lot in unexpected places and ways. The only proven concrete example I have of this was the myth that the BBC (TV) always started its programs dead on time. That myth was built up by the use of an analog clock showing a few seconds before six o'clock in which the second hand ticked its way up to EXACTLY six PM when the six o'clock news would start, always, invariably and precisely at 6PM. However timed recordings of other programs showed that no other program ever started exactly on the dot. Don't know about computer chips but there is a lot of variation in lots of products that use the myth of quality and reliability. Buy a Mars bar in the UK and compare it with a Mars bar bought in the Gulf states or Thailand, or even a box of Dansk Butter (shudder) cookies bought in the Europe versus what is imported from Malaysia. shiv
Re: [silk] Copying is Good: Different is not better
On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 11:12 PM, ss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually this sounds like typical corporate propaganda via an advertorial, of which one sees a lot in unexpected places and ways. ... Don't know about computer chips but there is a lot of variation in lots of products that use the myth of quality and reliability. Buy a Mars bar in the UK and compare it with a Mars bar bought in the Gulf states or Thailand, or even a box of Dansk Butter (shudder) cookies bought in the Europe versus what is imported from Malaysia. While I agree with you in general, in this specific case I find Intel's claim plausible. 1) I've seen (a small part of) what Intel does to get consistency in manufacturing 2) I have a small understanding of what's required to make chips. So you're right to be cynical and suspicious in general, but *I* think this case is legit. -- Charles
Re: [silk] Copying is Good: Different is not better
divya manian wrote, [on 4/11/2008 7:42 AM]: At Intel's advanced-chip plants, normal consistency doesn't cut it: The company even copies the air in the room http://www.oregonlive.com/business/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/business/1194591355141180.xmlcoll=7 Isnt this what McDonalds does to every franchise that opens up around the world for their staple recipes? Um, no. One immediate counterexample I can think of: You can't get very much more staple in the McD context than the Big Mac (i.e, one big hunk of industrially harvested beef in a roll). You don't get that in India, for example. As for why this is unique, see below. ss wrote, [on 4/11/2008 8:42 AM]: Actually this sounds like typical corporate propaganda via an advertorial, of which one sees a lot in unexpected places and ways. Yes and no. Copy exactly is primarily a means of *transferring technology*. Setting up a fab is so expensive (the new one in Oregon cost $3B to set up) and the opportunity costs of delay or improper technology transfer are so high, that one tends to go to great lengths to find a system that works well. Here [1] is a good overview of the process and the thinking behind it. From the link: Copy EXACTLY! Philosophy Stated in its simplest form, “everything which might affect the process, or how it is run” is to be copied down to the finest detail, unless it is either physically impossible to do so, or there is an overwhelming competitive benefit to intro- ducing a change. I recommend reading the document in its entirety. Disclosure: I work for Intel, but these are my personal views. Udhay [1] ftp://download.intel.com/technology/itj/q41998/pdf/copyexactly.pdf -- ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))
Re: [silk] p2p? nah! - was Re: Wanted: Exceptional parents
On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 11:11 PM, Ramjee Swaminathan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyway, the point is that regular or irregular schools, the onus is actually on the parents. That, in fact, is the crux of the matter. Personally, the responsibility of making sure my kid turns out normal (let alone an achiever) is kinda scary. Hence the hand wringing tension over the choice of school. It's one of the few things that parents think they have some control over. -- b
Re: [silk] Mexican Food in India
Bombay has Cream Center (Chowpatty and Bandra) which serves edible Mexican stuff. i tried Mexican at TGIF in Connaught Place in Delhi (where I am now based) and it was OK, though I had to specifically ask them to get me guacamole (I love that stuff). I miss a place like Picante in Boston's Central Square (lived there in 98-99) where you could help yourselves to varieties of salsa! Mmmm.. this thread has got my tatebuds working overtime now :-) Venky On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 9:44 PM, Srini Ramakrishnan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Gautam John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been wondering why there is an acute lack of *any* restaurant, in Bangalore, that serves Mexican food. I'm not sure if this is true of the rest of India too... Indi Joes is a chain found at least in Bangalore and Hyderabad that serves tex-mex cuisine. I don't need to tell you that it's a pale comparison to any palate that's used to the real stuff. However the ambiance is nice, and at least in the one I've been to in Bangalore their happy hours are really long, and really happy. Hyderabad apparently doesn't need booze to remain happy, so ... Cheeni
Re: [silk] Mexican Food in India
At 2008-04-11 11:01:56 +0530, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i tried Mexican at TGIF in Connaught Place in Delhi (where I am now based) and it was OK Ten, at the YWCA on Parliament Street in Delhi, serves Mexican food (Quesadillas, especially) that I enjoyed eating; but I have never had an opportunity to sample authentic Mexican food. -- ams
Re: [silk] Mexican Food in India
Late to this thread due to all the running around trying to relocate my restaurant, but here's my 2 paisa: Abhijit Menon-Sen wrote: Ten, at the YWCA on Parliament Street in Delhi, serves Mexican food (Quesadillas, especially) that I enjoyed eating; but I have never had an opportunity to sample authentic Mexican food. I think that is indeed the crux of the problem. Most people don't have a point of reference for authentic Mexican food (yours truly included.) The only thing that they are familiar with is the Tex-Mex stuff - dishes you can find at places like IndiJoe's, Ruby Tuesday, TGIF, etc. When the impression so many people have of the cuisine is that it's meat in a tortilla with cheese and some stuff on the side, it's an uphill task to elevate it to any kind of fine dining concept. It's far less risky to sneak in a couple of dishes as part of some fusion or coffee shop menu. Madhu -- * Madhu Menon Shiok Far-eastern Cuisine Indiranagar, Bangalore Visit us @ http://www.shiokfood.com Book your table online: http://www.shiokfood.com/reserve.html
