Re: Autodesk acquires Solid Angle

[Jim Yeh]

yeah, before AD purchased Softimage, SI users out numbered Maya and Max,
but after their purchase, SI users become so few that they are forced to
abandon it.

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 5:18 PM, Perry Harovas 
wrote:

> Steven Caron m wrote:
>
> "I am not trying to convince anyone to 'trust' Autodesk to do what is
> right for you, I was just trying to convince people of the possibility that
> Autodesk's best interest (in regard to the future of Arnold) is actually to
> play nicely with others."
>
> I totally agree with this. Really.
>
> Unfortunately (and not maniacally) Autodesk has in its best interest to
> give Maya the best version of Arnold first. It's sort of like saving the
> best slice of pizza for your girlfriend. It works better for her, and
> therefore makes you happy as well. It isn't to do anything to hurt others
> interested in the pizza, it's just that you care more about what your
> girlfriend thinks and therefore it is in your own interests to take care of
> her first.
>
> Am I seriously comparing Autodesk's interest in Arnold to pizza? Not
> really , but I am trying to simplify the relationship down to wants/needs
> and point out it is only natural to want to take care of your own. Nothing
> evil about it. Then you add money and business to the mix and it still
> isn't evil, but it does become harder to resist for some corporate types.
>
> You can't blame them, you can only make decisions you feel comfortable
> with.
>
> For me, Arnold is a truly great product, and if it ever ships with Maya,
> it might make my time spent using Maya better than it currently is. But
> it's definitely ruins my desire to seek it out from now on in C4D or
> Houdini. That is really a personal decision, because I don't like buying
> into large corporations that I don't have a baseline trust for. With Arnold
> now being owned by a corporation I don't really trust anymore, I feel like
> the best decision for ME is to seek out other smaller independent renderers
> like Octane or Vray.
>
> In the end, oddly, picking a renderer can be a really personal choice
> (once your basic production needs are met of course). This is not the case
> in midrange studios and larger ones because the decision of which renderer
> to use is riding on a lot more than "feelings", of course.
>
> But will it play a role in freelancer decisions?
> It already has for me, and time will tell if that is the case for others.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Apr 19, 2016, at 3:54 PM, Steven Caron  wrote:
> >
> > I am not trying to convince anyone to 'trust' Autodesk to do what is
> right for you, I was just trying to convince people of the possibility that
> Autodesk's best interest (in regard to the future of Arnold) is actually to
> play nicely with others.
>
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Re: New render layers in maya

[Francois Lord]

Ok I just watched the video and I must admit this is pretty cool!
Expressions for collection members, relative overrides with multiplier
and offset, overrides that can be deactivated...

It looks like Autodesk got some hints from studios that were using
Softimage.

We'll see how it behaves in production, but I say it's promising.

F

On 2016-04-19 02:58 PM, Francois Lord wrote:
> This is the key to success. It made it very simple to work with
> overrides in XSI but it didn't deal well (at all) with references that
> change all the time. Using expressions is the way forward. Houdini is
> using expressions in its stylesheets, Katana is using the equivalent
> with nodes, we are using expressions in our in-house tool at Framestore.
>
> I remember we had to use very precise workflow rules in XSI to keep
> scenes clean (back objects partitions always being hidden, foreground
> partitions always being visible, object matte partitions being called
> MATTE, etc.)
>
> When you deal with expressions, you need even more rigid rules.
> Otherwise it quickly become an unusable mess. Also, all objects must
> respect the naming conventions. And artists who don't follow them must
> be executed.
>
> F
>
> On 2016-04-18 17:47, Luc-Eric Rousseau wrote:
>
> >  Overrides are procedural in XSI (i.e. string-based) but in this
> > everything else is expression-based and late-bound, which means it can
> > deal with references and changing scenes.
>  

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Re: Autodesk acquires Solid Angle

[Perry Harovas]

Steven Caron m wrote:

"I am not trying to convince anyone to 'trust' Autodesk to do what is right for 
you, I was just trying to convince people of the possibility that Autodesk's 
best interest (in regard to the future of Arnold) is actually to play nicely 
with others."

I totally agree with this. Really. 

Unfortunately (and not maniacally) Autodesk has in its best interest to give 
Maya the best version of Arnold first. It's sort of like saving the best slice 
of pizza for your girlfriend. It works better for her, and therefore makes you 
happy as well. It isn't to do anything to hurt others interested in the pizza, 
it's just that you care more about what your girlfriend thinks and therefore it 
is in your own interests to take care of her first. 

Am I seriously comparing Autodesk's interest in Arnold to pizza? Not really , 
but I am trying to simplify the relationship down to wants/needs and point out 
it is only natural to want to take care of your own. Nothing evil about it. 
Then you add money and business to the mix and it still isn't evil, but it does 
become harder to resist for some corporate types. 

You can't blame them, you can only make decisions you feel comfortable with. 

For me, Arnold is a truly great product, and if it ever ships with Maya, it 
might make my time spent using Maya better than it currently is. But it's 
definitely ruins my desire to seek it out from now on in C4D or Houdini. That 
is really a personal decision, because I don't like buying into large 
corporations that I don't have a baseline trust for. With Arnold now being 
owned by a corporation I don't really trust anymore, I feel like the best 
decision for ME is to seek out other smaller independent renderers like Octane 
or Vray. 

In the end, oddly, picking a renderer can be a really personal choice (once 
your basic production needs are met of course). This is not the case in 
midrange studios and larger ones because the decision of which renderer to use 
is riding on a lot more than "feelings", of course. 

But will it play a role in freelancer decisions?
It already has for me, and time will tell if that is the case for others. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 19, 2016, at 3:54 PM, Steven Caron  wrote:
> 
> I am not trying to convince anyone to 'trust' Autodesk to do what is right 
> for you, I was just trying to convince people of the possibility that 
> Autodesk's best interest (in regard to the future of Arnold) is actually to 
> play nicely with others.

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Re: Autodesk acquires Solid Angle

[Jason S]

  
  

  

  

  On 04/18/16 18:55,
  Steven Caron wrote:
  Their decision axe Softimage seemed irrational to us
  because we are emotional but if you reduce it to
  numbers, it made sense.
  

  

(right...)


  

  It is a truth I
  don't like to admit but it is a fact that Maya and Max
  user numbers are just higher, 
  so of course you axe Softimage and consolidate the dev
  teams. 

  

Of course!

  Soft userbase wasn't humongous (entirely relatively speaking
  which is I think is my point) 
  in it's rather niche segment perhaps like Houdini proportions
  relative to Maya, or even Maya is relative to 3DS. 
  
  But you can't purge something like Houdini (or Softimage) from
  existance, on the premise that it's market was smaller, and
  not leave a huuge gaping hole, in what a main package (in it's
  niche segment) may have provided in terms of advantages, which
  despite "softimagization" of other products including tweak
  tools, shader trees, ... to this day remains not just  a bit
  unique in it's main qualities. (not just concerning ICE)
  
  

  

  Others have touched on it,
  here and on the Arnold mailing lists... This case
  is different because they don't have 3 competing
  renderers now, they have at most two (ART in Max).
  Softimage wasn't a plugin for 7 different
  softwares, it wasn't 'agnostic' in the same way
  Arnold is. Since the Softimage purchase and axing,
  AD has bought Shotgun. 
  
  This is an example of AD staying out of way and
  more value being brought to the product
  (additional access to RV). These are reasons why I
  think this case is going to be different.
  
  
  

  
  
  I am cautiously optimistic
  though, in 2 years or so we will see for certain.

  

  
  

Indeed shotgun is one (of quite few out of -many-) packages that
wasn't seriously compromised post acquisition, which is probably
why shotgun is pasted all over Arnold press release, and I too
wouldnt be surprised if it was one of those few, yet many would
argue that shotgun barely (significantly) changed since it was
purchased, and moslty relies on the fact that it's quite
complete as it is (perhaps not unlike SI). 

But there remains a good chance (if not a probability) that
efforts on Arnold would be mostly be around what the parent
company is after, or what the buzzword of the day may be at a
given time, in this case "cloud", and for the rest to be slowly
moved to the back simply by not touching it, and thus becoming
like the next MentalRay.

In either case it could then be considered as "just" another
casualty.


  
  On 04/18/16 18:55, Steven Caron wrote:


  I tried to touch on this with the last sentence in
my reply. Their decision axe Softimage seemed irrational to us
because we are emotional but if you reduce it to numbers, it
made sense. It is a truth I don't like to admit but it is a fact
that Maya and Max user numbers are just higher, so of course you
axe Softimage and consolidate the dev teams.


Others have touched on it, here and on the Arnold mailing
  lists... This case is different because they don't have 3
  competing renderers now, they have at most two (ART in Max).
  Softimage wasn't a plugin for 7 different softwares, it wasn't
  'agnostic' in the same way Arnold is. Since the Softimage
  purchase and axing, AD has bought Shotgun. This is an example
  of AD staying out of way and more value being brought to the
  product (additional access to RV). These are reasons why I
  think this case is going to be different.


I am cautiously optimistic though, in 2 years or so we will
  see for certain.

  
On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 3:29 PM,
  Artur W 
  wrote:
  

Re: Autodesk acquires Solid Angle

[Steven Caron]

It certainly could happen. Again, I am cautiously optimistic that it won't.
You can choose not to be so optimistic and stop using Arnold ASAP, so no
decision Autodesk makes in the future will impact you.

But just so it is clear... I was addressing the idea that Autodesk's first
order of business would be to some how damage Arnold for C4D or Houdini
users. Then doing so force them to switch to Maya or Max?

I am not trying to convince anyone to 'trust' Autodesk to do what is right
for you, I was just trying to convince people of the possibility that
Autodesk's best interest (in regard to the future of Arnold) is actually to
play nicely with others.

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 12:30 PM, Phil Harbath 
wrote:

> I am definitely not sure what their motivation was but instead of
> investing in it they gave up on it.
>
>
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RE: Autodesk acquires Solid Angle

[Phil Harbath]

I am definitely not sure what their motivation was but instead of investing in 
it they gave up on it.

-Original Message-
From: "Steven Caron" 
Sent: ‎4/‎19/‎2016 3:21 PM
To: "softimage@listproc.autodesk.com" 
Subject: Re: Autodesk acquires Solid Angle

Not sure I follow... AD bought Mudbox to lure Softimage users over to Maya
or Max?

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 12:12 PM, Phil Harbath 
wrote:

> Well, they kind of did that with mudbox,  sure you could use it with any
> program, however they made it more convenient with max and Maya.
> --
> From: Steven Caron 
> Sent: ‎4/‎19/‎2016 3:07 PM
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> Subject: Re: Autodesk acquires Solid Angle
>
> I see what you are pointing out but again this is apples and oranges and
> that quote misses context :)
>
> Softimage != Arnold, full animation package with an API vs a rendering
> engine that IS an API... In Softimage's case AD is/was trying to convince
> us to switch to a competing product, in this case they are trying to sell a
> C4D user Maya through restricting their access to a rendering engine?
>
>
>
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Re: Autodesk acquires Solid Angle

[Steven Caron]

Not sure I follow... AD bought Mudbox to lure Softimage users over to Maya
or Max?

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 12:12 PM, Phil Harbath 
wrote:

> Well, they kind of did that with mudbox,  sure you could use it with any
> program, however they made it more convenient with max and Maya.
> --
> From: Steven Caron 
> Sent: ‎4/‎19/‎2016 3:07 PM
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> Subject: Re: Autodesk acquires Solid Angle
>
> I see what you are pointing out but again this is apples and oranges and
> that quote misses context :)
>
> Softimage != Arnold, full animation package with an API vs a rendering
> engine that IS an API... In Softimage's case AD is/was trying to convince
> us to switch to a competing product, in this case they are trying to sell a
> C4D user Maya through restricting their access to a rendering engine?
>
>
>
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RE: Autodesk acquires Solid Angle

[Scott Lange]

Oops…lol

 

--

“If we reduce AD's behaviors to 'corporate greed' like this forum tends to do, 
then alienating thousands of users is illogical.”

 

Didn’t they do that already? ;)

This is the Softimage list, isn’t it?

 


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  with "unsubscribe" in the 
subject, and reply to confirm.

 

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RE: Autodesk acquires Solid Angle

[Phil Harbath]

Well, they kind of did that with mudbox,  sure you could use it with any 
program, however they made it more convenient with max and Maya.

-Original Message-
From: "Steven Caron" 
Sent: ‎4/‎19/‎2016 3:07 PM
To: "softimage@listproc.autodesk.com" 
Subject: Re: Autodesk acquires Solid Angle

I see what you are pointing out but again this is apples and oranges and
that quote misses context :)

Softimage != Arnold, full animation package with an API vs a rendering
engine that IS an API... In Softimage's case AD is/was trying to convince
us to switch to a competing product, in this case they are trying to sell a
C4D user Maya through restricting their access to a rendering engine?

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 5:50 PM, Ed Harriss  wrote:

> “If we reduce AD's behaviors to 'corporate greed' like this forum tends to
> do, then alienating thousands of users is illogical.”
>
>
>
> Didn’t they do that already? ;)
>
> This is the Softimage list, isn’t it?
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: Autodesk acquires Solid Angle

[Steven Caron]

I see what you are pointing out but again this is apples and oranges and
that quote misses context :)

Softimage != Arnold, full animation package with an API vs a rendering
engine that IS an API... In Softimage's case AD is/was trying to convince
us to switch to a competing product, in this case they are trying to sell a
C4D user Maya through restricting their access to a rendering engine?

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 5:50 PM, Ed Harriss  wrote:

> “If we reduce AD's behaviors to 'corporate greed' like this forum tends to
> do, then alienating thousands of users is illogical.”
>
>
>
> Didn’t they do that already? ;)
>
> This is the Softimage list, isn’t it?
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: Autodesk acquires Solid Angle

[Tony Bexley]

With Redshift, XSI is still alive and kickin' and will be for the next
couple years..

<3 Redshift

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 8:50 PM, Ed Harriss  wrote:

> “If we reduce AD's behaviors to 'corporate greed' like this forum tends to
> do, then alienating thousands of users is illogical.”
>
>
>
> Didn’t they do that already? ;)
>
> This is the Softimage list, isn’t it?
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Artur W
> *Sent:* Monday, April 18, 2016 3:30 PM
> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> *Subject:* Re: Autodesk acquires Solid Angle
>
>
>
> Many AD corporate decisions seem irrational and strange to us.
>
> Why should this case be any different?
>
>
>
> I truly wish everything would go as we wanted. Constant progress and
> development of Arnold.
>
>
>
> 2016-04-19 0:20 GMT+02:00 Steven Caron :
>
> Yes, some aren't excited about paying AD money but that is what I am
> saying... AD will need to keep these people happy or they will ditch
> Arnold. Breaking Arnold in C4D or Houdini is a lose lose scenario. They
> don't sell a Maya license and they don't sell an Arnold license. If we
> reduce AD's behaviors to 'corporate greed' like this forum tends to do,
> then alienating thousands of users is illogical.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 3:00 PM, Artur W  wrote:
>
> Yes, but as we know a lot of people pay them not very willingly. Matter of
> choice.
>
> So, conspiracy theory, all they need to do after they plant arnold within
> Maya and/or Max is to just mess SDK a bit. Not as if they haven't already
> on purpose or by accident.
>
> Vray suddenly having glitches and bugs, the promises of fixes prolong.
>
>
>
> Just imagining things, but who knows.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>
>
>
> --
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Re: New render layers in maya

[Francois Lord]

 

This is the key to success. It made it very simple to work with
overrides in XSI but it didn't deal well (at all) with references that
change all the time. Using expressions is the way forward. Houdini is
using expressions in its stylesheets, Katana is using the equivalent
with nodes, we are using expressions in our in-house tool at Framestore.


I remember we had to use very precise workflow rules in XSI to keep
scenes clean (back objects partitions always being hidden, foreground
partitions always being visible, object matte partitions being called
MATTE, etc.) 

When you deal with expressions, you need even more rigid
rules. Otherwise it quickly become an unusable mess. Also, all objects
must respect the naming conventions. And artists who don't follow them
must be executed. 

F 

On 2016-04-18 17:47, Luc-Eric Rousseau wrote:


> Overrides are procedural in XSI (i.e. string-based) but in this
everything else is expression-based and late-bound, which means it can
deal with references and changing scenes.

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RE: Autodesk acquires Solid Angle

[Ed Harriss]

“If we reduce AD's behaviors to 'corporate greed' like this forum tends to do, 
then alienating thousands of users is illogical.”

Didn’t they do that already? ;)
This is the Softimage list, isn’t it?


From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Artur W
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 3:30 PM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Autodesk acquires Solid Angle

Many AD corporate decisions seem irrational and strange to us.
Why should this case be any different?

I truly wish everything would go as we wanted. Constant progress and 
development of Arnold.

2016-04-19 0:20 GMT+02:00 Steven Caron 
>:
Yes, some aren't excited about paying AD money but that is what I am saying... 
AD will need to keep these people happy or they will ditch Arnold. Breaking 
Arnold in C4D or Houdini is a lose lose scenario. They don't sell a Maya 
license and they don't sell an Arnold license. If we reduce AD's behaviors to 
'corporate greed' like this forum tends to do, then alienating thousands of 
users is illogical.

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 3:00 PM, Artur W 
> wrote:
Yes, but as we know a lot of people pay them not very willingly. Matter of 
choice.
So, conspiracy theory, all they need to do after they plant arnold within Maya 
and/or Max is to just mess SDK a bit. Not as if they haven't already on purpose 
or by accident.
Vray suddenly having glitches and bugs, the promises of fixes prolong.

Just imagining things, but who knows.



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 with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.

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Re: Autodesk acquires Solid Angle

[Martin]

If Arnold is included with Maya, replacing MR, then great! That would be good 
news for people like me that don't render that often and when we do we have to 
use MR, and have to keep using and paying Maya's subscription for a very long 
time.

But Autodesk will probably sell it separated.

Martin
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Re: Autodesk acquires Solid Angle

[Sebastien Sterling]

AD wants to get the equation as close as they can to people feeding them a
steady stream of income for minimal updates and maintenance. They are not
driven by any passion or creative fervour.

On 19 April 2016 at 00:55, Steven Caron  wrote:

> I tried to touch on this with the last sentence in my reply. Their
> decision axe Softimage seemed irrational to us because we are emotional but
> if you reduce it to numbers, it made sense. It is a truth I don't like to
> admit but it is a fact that Maya and Max user numbers are just higher, so
> of course you axe Softimage and consolidate the dev teams.
>
> Others have touched on it, here and on the Arnold mailing lists... This
> case is different because they don't have 3 competing renderers now, they
> have at most two (ART in Max). Softimage wasn't a plugin for 7 different
> softwares, it wasn't 'agnostic' in the same way Arnold is. Since the
> Softimage purchase and axing, AD has bought Shotgun. This is an example of
> AD staying out of way and more value being brought to the product
> (additional access to RV). These are reasons why I think this case is going
> to be different.
>
> I am cautiously optimistic though, in 2 years or so we will see for
> certain.
>
> On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 3:29 PM, Artur W  wrote:
>
>> Many AD corporate decisions seem irrational and strange to us.
>> Why should this case be any different?
>>
>> I truly wish everything would go as we wanted. Constant progress and
>> development of Arnold.
>>
>>
>>
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> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
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Re: Autodesk acquires Solid Angle

[Steven Caron]

I tried to touch on this with the last sentence in my reply. Their decision
axe Softimage seemed irrational to us because we are emotional but if you
reduce it to numbers, it made sense. It is a truth I don't like to admit
but it is a fact that Maya and Max user numbers are just higher, so of
course you axe Softimage and consolidate the dev teams.

Others have touched on it, here and on the Arnold mailing lists... This
case is different because they don't have 3 competing renderers now, they
have at most two (ART in Max). Softimage wasn't a plugin for 7 different
softwares, it wasn't 'agnostic' in the same way Arnold is. Since the
Softimage purchase and axing, AD has bought Shotgun. This is an example of
AD staying out of way and more value being brought to the product
(additional access to RV). These are reasons why I think this case is going
to be different.

I am cautiously optimistic though, in 2 years or so we will see for certain.

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 3:29 PM, Artur W  wrote:

> Many AD corporate decisions seem irrational and strange to us.
> Why should this case be any different?
>
> I truly wish everything would go as we wanted. Constant progress and
> development of Arnold.
>
>
>
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RE: Autodesk acquires Solid Angle

[Angus Davidson]

Ugg sorry , best said way.

From: Angus Davidson [mailto:angus.david...@wits.ac.za]
Sent: Tuesday, 19 April 2016 2:52 PM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: RE: Autodesk acquires Solid Angle

Probably the said way of putting things into perspective. I am hopeful that 
this could be a win for EDU institutions and students whom may have previously 
not been able to go the Arnold route (We had to drop it after a year because of 
cutbacks , and it was painful to go back to mental ray at that stage)

Perry has also nailed it on the control issue. Have seen it happen many times 
before. Even someone with the best of intentions. Luckily for us we have 
switched to Octane and are very happy. If anything this might accelerate the 
switch to GPU renders like Octane and Redshift.



From: Perry Harovas [mailto:perryharo...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 19 April 2016 2:30 PM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Autodesk acquires Solid Angle

Marcos has a very level head on his shoulders.
He and his team have created stunningly simple and powerful software rendering
and done it in almost a ninja-like careful fashion.

I believe him when he says he feels it will be good for the company and users.

The one indisputable fact, though, is he now has no more real control.
He sold 100% of that control. He is now an employee in his own company.
History has shown that rarely works well. It isn't unique to Autodesk, and I am 
not
even talking about Softimage.

It is just, simply and starkly, business.

Only time will tell if this proves to be the right decision.

Everything we speculate is literally just that. Speculation.
Even what Marcos says from now on is just speculation.

Father time knows, but he only tells us one day at a time.
It will take years for him to tell his story.


On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 6:28 PM, Steven Caron 
> wrote:
I am not excited on this acquisition either but it is easy to see that this 
isn't the same deal as the Softimage one. So don't confuse my statements for 
full support but rather a level headed look at what is really happening.

I don't see how having Arnold stop working in C4D and Houdini means those 
houses are forced to switch to AD products?

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 3:19 PM, Sven Constable 
> wrote:
Well, a softimage costumer who didn't pay AD had to pay AD after the 
aquisition. Doesn’t stop them from killing it and they got basically ALL the 
former softimage costumers. Remember, not all C4D/Houdini companies are using 
arnold.  So AD could sell a few arnold lics to a maybe 50% of the C4D/Houdini 
houses or force ALL of them to switch to Max and Maya in the long run. 
Especially since max/maya are somehow comparable to C4D/H in the mind of AD.


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Perry Harovas
Animation and Visual Effects

http://www.TheAfterImage.com

-26 Years Experience
-Member of the Visual Effects Society (VES)
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RE: Autodesk acquires Solid Angle

[Angus Davidson]

Probably the said way of putting things into perspective. I am hopeful that 
this could be a win for EDU institutions and students whom may have previously 
not been able to go the Arnold route (We had to drop it after a year because of 
cutbacks , and it was painful to go back to mental ray at that stage)

Perry has also nailed it on the control issue. Have seen it happen many times 
before. Even someone with the best of intentions. Luckily for us we have 
switched to Octane and are very happy. If anything this might accelerate the 
switch to GPU renders like Octane and Redshift.



From: Perry Harovas [mailto:perryharo...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 19 April 2016 2:30 PM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Autodesk acquires Solid Angle

Marcos has a very level head on his shoulders.
He and his team have created stunningly simple and powerful software rendering
and done it in almost a ninja-like careful fashion.

I believe him when he says he feels it will be good for the company and users.

The one indisputable fact, though, is he now has no more real control.
He sold 100% of that control. He is now an employee in his own company.
History has shown that rarely works well. It isn't unique to Autodesk, and I am 
not
even talking about Softimage.

It is just, simply and starkly, business.

Only time will tell if this proves to be the right decision.

Everything we speculate is literally just that. Speculation.
Even what Marcos says from now on is just speculation.

Father time knows, but he only tells us one day at a time.
It will take years for him to tell his story.


On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 6:28 PM, Steven Caron 
> wrote:
I am not excited on this acquisition either but it is easy to see that this 
isn't the same deal as the Softimage one. So don't confuse my statements for 
full support but rather a level headed look at what is really happening.

I don't see how having Arnold stop working in C4D and Houdini means those 
houses are forced to switch to AD products?

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 3:19 PM, Sven Constable 
> wrote:
Well, a softimage costumer who didn't pay AD had to pay AD after the 
aquisition. Doesn’t stop them from killing it and they got basically ALL the 
former softimage costumers. Remember, not all C4D/Houdini companies are using 
arnold.  So AD could sell a few arnold lics to a maybe 50% of the C4D/Houdini 
houses or force ALL of them to switch to Max and Maya in the long run. 
Especially since max/maya are somehow comparable to C4D/H in the mind of AD.


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Perry Harovas
Animation and Visual Effects

http://www.TheAfterImage.com

-26 Years Experience
-Member of the Visual Effects Society (VES)

 

This communication is 
intended for the addressee only. It is confidential. If you have received this 
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message. You may not copy or disseminate this communication without the 
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enter into agreements on behalf of the University and recipients are thus 
advised that the content of this message may not be legally binding on the 
University and may contain the personal views and opinions of the author, which 
are not necessarily the views and opinions of The University of the 
Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All agreements between the University and 
outsiders are subject to South African Law unless the University agrees in 
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Re: New render layers in maya

[Graham Bell]

I never said it was a good track record. :-)

But yes I would agree, though some things have worked out ok, others
perhaps not.

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 9:59 PM, Jordi Bares  wrote:

>
>  Historically, AD have a track record of implementing a new
> feature/toolset, and then building it up in subsequent versions. So is it
> finished, probably not by a long chalk, but at least it’s a start. I guess
> we’ll see though.
>
>
> I disagree, AD has had a good track record of bringing some very good
> ideas on their first implementation and then abandoning them and let them
> rot. Which is surely the reason such a missed opportunity is so regrettable.
>
>
>
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Re: Autodesk acquires Solid Angle

[Perry Harovas]

Marcos has a very level head on his shoulders.
He and his team have created stunningly simple and powerful software
rendering
and done it in almost a ninja-like careful fashion.

I believe him when he says he feels it will be good for the company and
users.

The one indisputable fact, though, is he now has no more real control.
He sold 100% of that control. He is now an employee in his own company.
History has shown that rarely works well. It isn't unique to Autodesk, and
I am not
even talking about Softimage.

It is just, simply and starkly, business.

Only time will tell if this proves to be the right decision.

Everything we speculate is literally just that. Speculation.
Even what Marcos says from now on is just speculation.

Father time knows, but he only tells us one day at a time.
It will take years for him to tell his story.


On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 6:28 PM, Steven Caron  wrote:

> I am not excited on this acquisition either but it is easy to see that
> this isn't the same deal as the Softimage one. So don't confuse my
> statements for full support but rather a level headed look at what is
> really happening.
>
> I don't see how having Arnold stop working in C4D and Houdini means those
> houses are forced to switch to AD products?
>
> On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 3:19 PM, Sven Constable 
> wrote:
>
>> Well, a softimage costumer who didn't pay AD had to pay AD after the
>> aquisition. Doesn’t stop them from killing it and they got basically ALL
>> the former softimage costumers. Remember, not all C4D/Houdini companies are
>> using arnold.  So AD could sell a few arnold lics to a maybe 50% of the
>> C4D/Houdini houses or force ALL of them to switch to Max and Maya in the
>> long run. Especially since max/maya are somehow comparable to C4D/H in the
>> mind of AD.
>>
>>
>>
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> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>



-- 





Perry Harovas
Animation and Visual Effects

http://www.TheAfterImage.com 

-26 Years Experience
-Member of the Visual Effects Society (VES)
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Re: Autodesk acquires Solid Angle

[Mirko Jankovic]

"I don't see how having Arnold stop working in C4D and Houdini means those
houses are forced to switch to AD products?"

Softimage bneing EOL didn;t force peopl egoing other AD route as well..
agree they killed it for other reasons as well but still...

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 12:28 AM, Steven Caron  wrote:

> I am not excited on this acquisition either but it is easy to see that
> this isn't the same deal as the Softimage one. So don't confuse my
> statements for full support but rather a level headed look at what is
> really happening.
>
> I don't see how having Arnold stop working in C4D and Houdini means those
> houses are forced to switch to AD products?
>
> On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 3:19 PM, Sven Constable 
> wrote:
>
>> Well, a softimage costumer who didn't pay AD had to pay AD after the
>> aquisition. Doesn’t stop them from killing it and they got basically ALL
>> the former softimage costumers. Remember, not all C4D/Houdini companies are
>> using arnold.  So AD could sell a few arnold lics to a maybe 50% of the
>> C4D/Houdini houses or force ALL of them to switch to Max and Maya in the
>> long run. Especially since max/maya are somehow comparable to C4D/H in the
>> mind of AD.
>>
>>
>>
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*

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Re: Autodesk acquires Solid Angle

[Steven Caron]

I am not excited on this acquisition either but it is easy to see that this
isn't the same deal as the Softimage one. So don't confuse my statements
for full support but rather a level headed look at what is really happening.

I don't see how having Arnold stop working in C4D and Houdini means those
houses are forced to switch to AD products?

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 3:19 PM, Sven Constable 
wrote:

> Well, a softimage costumer who didn't pay AD had to pay AD after the
> aquisition. Doesn’t stop them from killing it and they got basically ALL
> the former softimage costumers. Remember, not all C4D/Houdini companies are
> using arnold.  So AD could sell a few arnold lics to a maybe 50% of the
> C4D/Houdini houses or force ALL of them to switch to Max and Maya in the
> long run. Especially since max/maya are somehow comparable to C4D/H in the
> mind of AD.
>
>
>
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RE: Autodesk acquires Solid Angle

[Sven Constable]

Well, a softimage costumer who didn't pay AD had to pay AD after the 
aquisition. Doesn’t stop them from killing it and they got basically ALL the 
former softimage costumers. Remember, not all C4D/Houdini companies are using 
arnold.  So AD could sell a few arnold lics to a maybe 50% of the C4D/Houdini 
houses or force ALL of them to switch to Max and Maya in the long run. 
Especially since max/maya are somehow comparable to C4D/H in the mind of AD.


sven

 

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Steven Caron
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 11:51 PM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Autodesk acquires Solid Angle

 

I doubt this, they want people paying them. A SolidAngle customer who didn't 
pay AD before (C4D or Houdini users) now has to pay AD!

 

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 2:44 PM, Jim Yeh  wrote:

The first thing that AD will do is to make Arnold stop working with competing 
app...

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Re: Autodesk acquires Solid Angle

[Frederic Servant]

Stay classy Olivier :)

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 9:21 AM, Olivier Jeannel 
wrote:

> As seen on FB
> Le 19 avr. 2016 02:06, "Sebastien Sterling" 
> a écrit :
>
>> AD wants to get the equation as close as they can to people feeding them
>> a steady stream of income for minimal updates and maintenance. They are not
>> driven by any passion or creative fervour.
>>
>> On 19 April 2016 at 00:55, Steven Caron  wrote:
>>
>>> I tried to touch on this with the last sentence in my reply. Their
>>> decision axe Softimage seemed irrational to us because we are emotional but
>>> if you reduce it to numbers, it made sense. It is a truth I don't like to
>>> admit but it is a fact that Maya and Max user numbers are just higher, so
>>> of course you axe Softimage and consolidate the dev teams.
>>>
>>> Others have touched on it, here and on the Arnold mailing lists... This
>>> case is different because they don't have 3 competing renderers now, they
>>> have at most two (ART in Max). Softimage wasn't a plugin for 7 different
>>> softwares, it wasn't 'agnostic' in the same way Arnold is. Since the
>>> Softimage purchase and axing, AD has bought Shotgun. This is an example of
>>> AD staying out of way and more value being brought to the product
>>> (additional access to RV). These are reasons why I think this case is going
>>> to be different.
>>>
>>> I am cautiously optimistic though, in 2 years or so we will see for
>>> certain.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 3:29 PM, Artur W  wrote:
>>>
 Many AD corporate decisions seem irrational and strange to us.
 Why should this case be any different?

 I truly wish everything would go as we wanted. Constant progress and
 development of Arnold.



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>>> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
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Re: New render layers in maya

[Jordi Bares]

> On 18 Apr 2016, at 21:47, Graham Bell  wrote:
> 
> To be fair here, considering what system Maya had, it’s certainly a big 
> improvement.

Is it? …. not that sure…  lots of activity, not much movement forward.

>  Historically, AD have a track record of implementing a new feature/toolset, 
> and then building it up in subsequent versions. So is it finished, probably 
> not by a long chalk, but at least it’s a start. I guess we’ll see though.

I disagree, AD has had a good track record of bringing some very good ideas on 
their first implementation and then abandoning them and let them rot. Which is 
surely the reason such a missed opportunity is so regrettable.

> It would be nice to have literally taken the system from Soft, but as always 
> I don’t think it’s that’s simple.  Soft and Maya work in different ways, and 
> Soft benefited greatly from the amount of work that Halfdan did to that 
> system. (I think recall Luc-Eric even saying how many lines of code it was.) 

I am sure the technical challenges on both approaches are pretty similar.

> Even in this state, I’d still take the new Maya system over what I have to 
> use in Max, and that’s saying something. L

I won’t touch either with a barge pole.

my 2 cents.
jb

> G
>  
>  
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
>  
> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
> ] On Behalf Of Perry Harovas
> Sent: 18 April 2016 20:00
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com 
> Subject: Re: New render layers in maya
>  
> The VAST majority of us will hate it because it is from AD, even if it is 
> great.
>  
> Which it isn't.
>  
> I watched the whole video and it overcomplicated something that isn't that 
> complicated, frankly.
> AD owns the IP for Softimage Layers/Passes. Just use THAT!
>  
> Why does it have to feel like it is taking a step backwards?
>  
> Why does Maya always have to complicate things which are not all that 
> complicated?
>  
> I have been using Maya for about as long as possible (years-wise, not time 
> wise).
> This has always been the way with Maya. 
>  
> Make it complicated. Always. That seems to be the #1 design goal (if there is 
> a design).
>  
> Here's a thought: Just because it is complicated doesn't mean it is good.
>  
> Here is another thought: Just because it doesn't appear complicated, doesn't 
> mean it isn't deep.
>  
>  
>  
> On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 2:17 PM, Sebastien Sterling 
> > wrote:
>> Nice ergonomics YOU MASSIVE WANKERS !
>>  
>> On 18 April 2016 at 19:12, Adam Seeley > > wrote:
>>> But don't make it round like the one over there.
>>>  
>>> A.
>>>  
>>> On 18 April 2016 at 16:43, Jordi Bares >> > wrote:
 Let’s reinvent the wheel!!
  
  
  
> On 18 Apr 2016, at 15:57, Daniel Kim  > wrote:
>  
> Strange thing is, I feel like AD make something with their own way, not 
> based on human interface theory of stuff. Whenever I see their new 
> release, I feel like 'that's freaking fxxked up interface... 
>  
> On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 12:50 PM Ivan Vasiljevic  > wrote:
>> S many new windows in Maya.
>> Now we have property editor and render passes window. :)
>> Guess it just has to go that way, or not?
>>  
>> Cheers.
>> Ivan
>>  
>> On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 12:36 PM, Mikael Pettersén 
>> > wrote:
>>> Well, that goes without saying. If you only could hear the amount of 
>>> cursing I do at work every day... ;)
>>>  
>>> From: Mirko Jankovic 
>>> Sent: 18 April 2016 11:29
>>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Subject: Re: New render layers in maya
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Compared to old one yes.. compared to Softimage's.. not so ;)
>>>  
>>> On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 12:19 PM, Mikael Pettersén 
>>> > wrote:
 I’m hardly a Maya fan, but I have to say that this looks like a big 
 improvement to me. 
  
 Cheers
 Mikael
  
 From: Mirko Jankovic 
 Sent: 18 April 2016 10:30
 To: Rob Wuijster ; 
 softimage@listproc.autodesk.com 
 
 Subject: Re: New render layers in maya
  
 Seems just like another attempt to push something 

PickSession not working

[David Saber]

hello, I have a strange problem using a script: PickSession is not 
working, and returns "O" as the pressed mouse button, even if I use the 
right mouse button. And "0" is like right clicking to exit.
I tried with 2 mouses on an Asus ROG G752VTand same problem. Any idea?
Thanks
David
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Re: Autodesk acquires Solid Angle

[Olivier Jeannel]

As seen on FB
Le 19 avr. 2016 02:06, "Sebastien Sterling" 
a écrit :

> AD wants to get the equation as close as they can to people feeding them a
> steady stream of income for minimal updates and maintenance. They are not
> driven by any passion or creative fervour.
>
> On 19 April 2016 at 00:55, Steven Caron  wrote:
>
>> I tried to touch on this with the last sentence in my reply. Their
>> decision axe Softimage seemed irrational to us because we are emotional but
>> if you reduce it to numbers, it made sense. It is a truth I don't like to
>> admit but it is a fact that Maya and Max user numbers are just higher, so
>> of course you axe Softimage and consolidate the dev teams.
>>
>> Others have touched on it, here and on the Arnold mailing lists... This
>> case is different because they don't have 3 competing renderers now, they
>> have at most two (ART in Max). Softimage wasn't a plugin for 7 different
>> softwares, it wasn't 'agnostic' in the same way Arnold is. Since the
>> Softimage purchase and axing, AD has bought Shotgun. This is an example of
>> AD staying out of way and more value being brought to the product
>> (additional access to RV). These are reasons why I think this case is going
>> to be different.
>>
>> I am cautiously optimistic though, in 2 years or so we will see for
>> certain.
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 3:29 PM, Artur W  wrote:
>>
>>> Many AD corporate decisions seem irrational and strange to us.
>>> Why should this case be any different?
>>>
>>> I truly wish everything would go as we wanted. Constant progress and
>>> development of Arnold.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Softimage Mailing List.
>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
>> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>>
>
>
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