Re: OT: Houdini cluster materials
What I suggest you do is a ingest process workflow. 1 - Ingest - Use the object load to spit your objects onto the parts you want, make sure you put some nicely name nulls (these will be your hooks) and if you are very tidy add a red material in your object level. Also this is the point in which you repair broken models, add normals at vertex level instead of point level, remove things you don’t point wise, etc… but don’t add just yet the attributes that are specific to the task at hand, simply the basics. 2 - Process - Then create in object level as many OBJ as you need and read the hooks you created from inside, adding the materials at object level here!!! this should override the red color and thus you have a visual clue of what has been updated or is left to do (if you see a red object chances are you forgot to add a material ;-) Here is where you add your own attributes and given Bgeo can store them it is the perfect conduit to have you master version of the model (on steroids) If you are preparing an asset (let’s say a car) you may want to optimise this workflow and simply cache out (freeze your data) onto the disk for rigging and what not with all the atrributes cleaned and ready for final usage. hope it helps jb On 23 Mar 2015, at 01:07, Nono nnois...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, what i don't clearly understand is how material assignment at object level is useful if object merge don't keep them... ? am i missing something ? Noël On Tue, 10 Mar 2015 at 20:08 Jordi Bares Dominguez jordiba...@gmail.com mailto:jordiba...@gmail.com wrote: ... My take is to try to do things at object level due to easiness with for example transformations, material assignment, scene optimisation and LOD.
Re: OT: Houdini cluster materials
I guess it depends on one’s choice of workflow. It’s much more convenient to use takes for overrides when materials are at the object level. If you’ve set up bundles, it’s basically just a select objects from bundles, set the take and assign new materials, done. It’s much more involved to do this at the SOP level. As far as object merge goes, it’s similar to a live extract polygons from Soft, which also does not inherit materials, partitions, etc. Andy On Mar 23, 2015, at 02:07, Nono nnois...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, what i don't clearly understand is how material assignment at object level is useful if object merge don't keep them... ? am i missing something ? Noël On Tue, 10 Mar 2015 at 20:08 Jordi Bares Dominguez jordiba...@gmail.com mailto:jordiba...@gmail.com wrote: ... My take is to try to do things at object level due to easiness with for example transformations, material assignment, scene optimisation and LOD.
Re: OT: Houdini cluster materials
Hi, what i don't clearly understand is how material assignment at object level is useful if object merge don't keep them... ? am i missing something ? Noël On Tue, 10 Mar 2015 at 20:08 Jordi Bares Dominguez jordiba...@gmail.com wrote: ... My take is to try to do things at object level due to easiness with for example transformations, material assignment, scene optimisation and LOD.
Re: OT: Houdini cluster materials
I've got no idea what the `Merge` node internally does memory-wise but I don't really care as an user because it is not made to be an optimization method as you think. In proper data-flow graphs like the one exposed in Houdini, certain nodes can generate new data streams while others can manipulate the data from the stream they're being connected to. A `Merge` node simply takes two—or more—data streams and put them into a single one. This is a core concept when you have to deal with such graphs—it is so essential that the `Merge` node is probably one of the most used nodes in Houdini. Groups in Houdini share roughly the same purpose than clusters from Softimage. They are a core concept in Houdini as every node understand them. What you can do with clusters, you can do with groups, and much more out of the box. On 10 March 2015 at 22:27, Jason S jasonsta...@gmail.com wrote: Does it internally reinterpret duplicates (or hold in memory and scene description) the entire object as many times as there are local sub-object attibutes? (like Maya?) Which defeats the purpose of using merged objects as optimization method (despite Maya having a --not that much of an-- easier time dealing with large object counts) Because apart how soft can handle many-many polys at a time, (especially so today comparatively) you can very easily treat sub-objects (clusters) as just regular objects assinging properties like materials, visibility, ... selecting, transforming and sorting them in groups, therefore quite a bit further amplifying that maximum reach in scene complexity while remaining humanly manage-ably workable. (benefit also very much applicable for non-insanely-complex scenes) On 03/10/15 5:50, Gerbrand Nel wrote: Thanks man.. it really is that simple!! On 10/03/2015 06:16, Christopher Crouzet wrote: There's a `Material` node in the SOP context to apply different materials on a same object. You can insert it before you merge your objects or apply it to different groups. On 10 March 2015 at 11:09, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com wrote: Hey guys Quick houdini question. In soft I can make cluster for materials. In houdini I always end up with some merged thing with multiple objects in there. As far as I can tell, we assign materials at the object level, but what do I do if I want different materials for the different things that makes up my object? I know this is a RTFM question, but the FM is thick, and I'm lazy Thanks G -- Christopher Crouzet *http://christophercrouzet.com* http://christophercrouzet.com -- Christopher Crouzet *http://christophercrouzet.com* http://christophercrouzet.com
Re: OT: Houdini cluster materials
Another thing to note, if you apply materials inside the objects subnets then the material applied on the object level has no effect. I am really just getting started with rendering but this was quite surprising coming from xsi ;) C On 11 March 2015 at 09:50, Cristobal Infante cgc...@gmail.com wrote: Materials in houdini are essentially applied per polygon (primitives in houdini). Check the details view of a geometry that has a material, and the select the primitive icon. You will see each individual poly has got the material applied to it. By the way, the Details View panel is your best friend. If you are not using it, you are not using houdini very well ;) C On 10 March 2015 at 19:08, Jordi Bares Dominguez jordiba...@gmail.com wrote: You will certainly use them a lot as you will have surely many streams of data (a bit like if you had in one single object multiple parallel operator stacks that you can blend/merge/dispose/etc… My take is to try to do things at object level due to easiness with for example transformations, material assignment, scene optimisation and LOD. For example, every component of a wheel of a car I separate and make objects and have a hierarchy, this allows me to do very quick low resolution objects out of big ones. Transformations are much faster and ultimately I can do clever camera based hiding and what not. Also given I use bundles a lot having objects is very convenient as I can do text searches that bring the objects to the bundles so it is a major win after a bit of a slow prep time of course. So I would say my best friend is “object merge” operator rather than merge. ;-) hope it helps jb On 10 Mar 2015, at 17:47, Jason S jasonsta...@gmail.com wrote: (see addendums in bold) On 03/10/15 13:32, Jason S wrote: On 03/10/15 12:15, Christopher Crouzet wrote: This is a core concept when you have to deal with such graphs—it is so essential that the `Merge` node is probably one of the most used nodes in Houdini. I can understand why, whether for optimization, *[or]* manageability purposes. Groups in Houdini share roughly the same purpose than clusters from Softimage. They are a core concept in Houdini as every node understand them. What you can do with clusters, you can do with groups, and much more out of the box. I can imagine, as core *[or as basic of a concept]* as in Soft I would assume. *[or so it would seem]* And thanks for the, I think important clarification.
Re: OT: Houdini cluster materials
Materials in houdini are essentially applied per polygon (primitives in houdini). Check the details view of a geometry that has a material, and the select the primitive icon. You will see each individual poly has got the material applied to it. By the way, the Details View panel is your best friend. If you are not using it, you are not using houdini very well ;) C On 10 March 2015 at 19:08, Jordi Bares Dominguez jordiba...@gmail.com wrote: You will certainly use them a lot as you will have surely many streams of data (a bit like if you had in one single object multiple parallel operator stacks that you can blend/merge/dispose/etc… My take is to try to do things at object level due to easiness with for example transformations, material assignment, scene optimisation and LOD. For example, every component of a wheel of a car I separate and make objects and have a hierarchy, this allows me to do very quick low resolution objects out of big ones. Transformations are much faster and ultimately I can do clever camera based hiding and what not. Also given I use bundles a lot having objects is very convenient as I can do text searches that bring the objects to the bundles so it is a major win after a bit of a slow prep time of course. So I would say my best friend is “object merge” operator rather than merge. ;-) hope it helps jb On 10 Mar 2015, at 17:47, Jason S jasonsta...@gmail.com wrote: (see addendums in bold) On 03/10/15 13:32, Jason S wrote: On 03/10/15 12:15, Christopher Crouzet wrote: This is a core concept when you have to deal with such graphs—it is so essential that the `Merge` node is probably one of the most used nodes in Houdini. I can understand why, whether for optimization, *[or]* manageability purposes. Groups in Houdini share roughly the same purpose than clusters from Softimage. They are a core concept in Houdini as every node understand them. What you can do with clusters, you can do with groups, and much more out of the box. I can imagine, as core *[or as basic of a concept]* as in Soft I would assume. *[or so it would seem]* And thanks for the, I think important clarification.
Re: OT: Houdini cluster materials
The material SOP sets the ‘shop_materialpath’ attribute on primitives. This attribute has a higher priority than object level material assignment. Same with Softimage actually, a material assigned to a cluster is not overridden by it’s object material. Andy On Mar 11, 2015, at 12:33, Cristobal Infante cgc...@gmail.com wrote: Another thing to note, if you apply materials inside the objects subnets then the material applied on the object level has no effect. I am really just getting started with rendering but this was quite surprising coming from xsi ;) C On 11 March 2015 at 09:50, Cristobal Infante cgc...@gmail.com mailto:cgc...@gmail.com wrote: Materials in houdini are essentially applied per polygon (primitives in houdini). Check the details view of a geometry that has a material, and the select the primitive icon. You will see each individual poly has got the material applied to it. By the way, the Details View panel is your best friend. If you are not using it, you are not using houdini very well ;) C On 10 March 2015 at 19:08, Jordi Bares Dominguez jordiba...@gmail.com mailto:jordiba...@gmail.com wrote: You will certainly use them a lot as you will have surely many streams of data (a bit like if you had in one single object multiple parallel operator stacks that you can blend/merge/dispose/etc… My take is to try to do things at object level due to easiness with for example transformations, material assignment, scene optimisation and LOD. For example, every component of a wheel of a car I separate and make objects and have a hierarchy, this allows me to do very quick low resolution objects out of big ones. Transformations are much faster and ultimately I can do clever camera based hiding and what not. Also given I use bundles a lot having objects is very convenient as I can do text searches that bring the objects to the bundles so it is a major win after a bit of a slow prep time of course. So I would say my best friend is “object merge” operator rather than merge. ;-) hope it helps jb On 10 Mar 2015, at 17:47, Jason S jasonsta...@gmail.com mailto:jasonsta...@gmail.com wrote: (see addendums in bold) On 03/10/15 13:32, Jason S wrote: On 03/10/15 12:15, Christopher Crouzet wrote: This is a core concept when you have to deal with such graphs—it is so essential that the `Merge` node is probably one of the most used nodes in Houdini. I can understand why, whether for optimization, [or] manageability purposes. Groups in Houdini share roughly the same purpose than clusters from Softimage. They are a core concept in Houdini as every node understand them. What you can do with clusters, you can do with groups, and much more out of the box. I can imagine, as core [or as basic of a concept] as in Soft I would assume. [or so it would seem] And thanks for the, I think important clarification.
Re: OT: Houdini cluster materials
And the drag and drop mechanism works on the OBJ level, therefore I try to minimise the amount of “cluster like” approaches and operate at Object level as much as I can. hope it helps jb On 11 Mar 2015, at 11:47, Andy Goehler lists.andy.goeh...@gmail.com wrote: The material SOP sets the ‘shop_materialpath’ attribute on primitives. This attribute has a higher priority than object level material assignment. Same with Softimage actually, a material assigned to a cluster is not overridden by it’s object material. Andy On Mar 11, 2015, at 12:33, Cristobal Infante cgc...@gmail.com mailto:cgc...@gmail.com wrote: Another thing to note, if you apply materials inside the objects subnets then the material applied on the object level has no effect. I am really just getting started with rendering but this was quite surprising coming from xsi ;) C On 11 March 2015 at 09:50, Cristobal Infante cgc...@gmail.com mailto:cgc...@gmail.com wrote: Materials in houdini are essentially applied per polygon (primitives in houdini). Check the details view of a geometry that has a material, and the select the primitive icon. You will see each individual poly has got the material applied to it. By the way, the Details View panel is your best friend. If you are not using it, you are not using houdini very well ;) C On 10 March 2015 at 19:08, Jordi Bares Dominguez jordiba...@gmail.com mailto:jordiba...@gmail.com wrote: You will certainly use them a lot as you will have surely many streams of data (a bit like if you had in one single object multiple parallel operator stacks that you can blend/merge/dispose/etc… My take is to try to do things at object level due to easiness with for example transformations, material assignment, scene optimisation and LOD. For example, every component of a wheel of a car I separate and make objects and have a hierarchy, this allows me to do very quick low resolution objects out of big ones. Transformations are much faster and ultimately I can do clever camera based hiding and what not. Also given I use bundles a lot having objects is very convenient as I can do text searches that bring the objects to the bundles so it is a major win after a bit of a slow prep time of course. So I would say my best friend is “object merge” operator rather than merge. ;-) hope it helps jb On 10 Mar 2015, at 17:47, Jason S jasonsta...@gmail.com mailto:jasonsta...@gmail.com wrote: (see addendums in bold) On 03/10/15 13:32, Jason S wrote: On 03/10/15 12:15, Christopher Crouzet wrote: This is a core concept when you have to deal with such graphs—it is so essential that the `Merge` node is probably one of the most used nodes in Houdini. I can understand why, whether for optimization, [or] manageability purposes. Groups in Houdini share roughly the same purpose than clusters from Softimage. They are a core concept in Houdini as every node understand them. What you can do with clusters, you can do with groups, and much more out of the box. I can imagine, as core [or as basic of a concept] as in Soft I would assume. [or so it would seem] And thanks for the, I think important clarification.
Re: OT: Houdini cluster materials
Thanks man.. it really is that simple!! On 10/03/2015 06:16, Christopher Crouzet wrote: There's a `Material` node in the SOP context to apply different materials on a same object. You can insert it before you merge your objects or apply it to different groups. On 10 March 2015 at 11:09, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com mailto:nagv...@gmail.com wrote: Hey guys Quick houdini question. In soft I can make cluster for materials. In houdini I always end up with some merged thing with multiple objects in there. As far as I can tell, we assign materials at the object level, but what do I do if I want different materials for the different things that makes up my object? I know this is a RTFM question, but the FM is thick, and I'm lazy Thanks G -- Christopher Crouzet /http://christophercrouzet.com/
Re: OT: Houdini cluster materials
On 03/10/15 12:15, Christopher Crouzet wrote: This is a core concept when you have to deal with such graphs—it is so essential that the `Merge` node is probably one of the most used nodes in Houdini. I can understand why, whether for optimization, manageability purposes. Groups in Houdini share roughly the same purpose than clusters from Softimage. They are a core concept in Houdini as every node understand them. What you can do with clusters, you can do with groups, and much more out of the box. I can imagine, as core as in Soft I would assume.
Re: OT: Houdini cluster materials
(see addendums in bold) On 03/10/15 13:32, Jason S wrote: On 03/10/15 12:15, Christopher Crouzet wrote: This is a core concept when you have to deal with such graphs—it is so essential that the `Merge` node is probably one of the most used nodes in Houdini. I can understand why, whether for optimization, [or] manageability purposes. Groups in Houdini share roughly the same purpose than clusters from Softimage. They are a core concept in Houdini as every node understand them. What you can do with clusters, you can do with groups, and much more out of the box. I can imagine, as core [or as basic of a concept] as in Soft I would assume. [or so it would seem] And thanks for the, I think important clarification.
Re: OT: Houdini cluster materials
Does it internally reinterpret duplicates (or hold in memory and scene description) the entire object as many times as there are local "sub-object" attibutes? (like Maya?) Which defeats the purpose of using merged objects as optimization method (despite Maya having a --not that much of an-- easier time dealing with large object counts) Because apart how soft can handle many-many polys at a time, (especially so today comparatively) you can very easily treat sub-objects (clusters) as just regular objects assinging properties like materials, visibility, ... selecting, transforming and sorting them in groups, therefore quite a bit further amplifying that maximum reach in scene complexity while remaining humanly manage-ably workable. (benefit also very much applicable for non-insanely-complex scenes) On 03/10/15 5:50, Gerbrand Nel wrote: Thanks man.. it really is that simple!! On 10/03/2015 06:16, Christopher Crouzet wrote: There's a `Material` node in the SOP context to apply different materials on a same object. You can insert it before you merge your objects or apply it to different groups. On 10 March 2015 at 11:09, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com wrote: Hey guys Quick houdini question. In soft I can make cluster for materials. In houdini I always end up with some merged thing with multiple objects in there. As far as I can tell, we assign materials at the object level, but what do I do if I want different materials for the different things that makes up my object? I know this is a RTFM question, but the FM is thick, and I'm lazy Thanks G -- Christopher Crouzet http://christophercrouzet.com
Re: OT: Houdini cluster materials
You will certainly use them a lot as you will have surely many streams of data (a bit like if you had in one single object multiple parallel operator stacks that you can blend/merge/dispose/etc… My take is to try to do things at object level due to easiness with for example transformations, material assignment, scene optimisation and LOD. For example, every component of a wheel of a car I separate and make objects and have a hierarchy, this allows me to do very quick low resolution objects out of big ones. Transformations are much faster and ultimately I can do clever camera based hiding and what not. Also given I use bundles a lot having objects is very convenient as I can do text searches that bring the objects to the bundles so it is a major win after a bit of a slow prep time of course. So I would say my best friend is “object merge” operator rather than merge. ;-) hope it helps jb On 10 Mar 2015, at 17:47, Jason S jasonsta...@gmail.com wrote: (see addendums in bold) On 03/10/15 13:32, Jason S wrote: On 03/10/15 12:15, Christopher Crouzet wrote: This is a core concept when you have to deal with such graphs—it is so essential that the `Merge` node is probably one of the most used nodes in Houdini. I can understand why, whether for optimization, [or] manageability purposes. Groups in Houdini share roughly the same purpose than clusters from Softimage. They are a core concept in Houdini as every node understand them. What you can do with clusters, you can do with groups, and much more out of the box. I can imagine, as core [or as basic of a concept] as in Soft I would assume. [or so it would seem] And thanks for the, I think important clarification.
OT: Houdini cluster materials
Hey guys Quick houdini question. In soft I can make cluster for materials. In houdini I always end up with some merged thing with multiple objects in there. As far as I can tell, we assign materials at the object level, but what do I do if I want different materials for the different things that makes up my object? I know this is a RTFM question, but the FM is thick, and I'm lazy Thanks G
Re: OT: Houdini cluster materials
There's a `Material` node in the SOP context to apply different materials on a same object. You can insert it before you merge your objects or apply it to different groups. On 10 March 2015 at 11:09, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com wrote: Hey guys Quick houdini question. In soft I can make cluster for materials. In houdini I always end up with some merged thing with multiple objects in there. As far as I can tell, we assign materials at the object level, but what do I do if I want different materials for the different things that makes up my object? I know this is a RTFM question, but the FM is thick, and I'm lazy Thanks G -- Christopher Crouzet *http://christophercrouzet.com* http://christophercrouzet.com
