Re: Flow Chart of Solr
Seconded. Single-stepping really is the best way to follow the logic chains and see how the data mutates. On 04/05/2013 06:36 AM, Erick Erickson wrote: Then there's my lazy method. Fire up the IDE and find a test case that looks close to something you want to understand further. Step through it all in the debugger. I admit there'll be some fumbling at the start to _find_ the test case, but they're pretty well named. In IntelliJ, all you have to do is right-click on the test case and the context menu says debug blahbalbhabl You can chart the class relationships you actually wind up in as you go. This seems tedious, but it saves me getting lost in the class hierarchy. Also, there are some convenient tools in the IDE that will show you class hierarchies as you need. Or attach your debugger to a running Solr, which is actually very easy. In IntelliJ (and Eclipse has something very similar), create a remote project. That'll specify some parameters you start up with, e.g.: java -Xdebug -Xrunjdwp:transport=dt_socket,server=y,suspend=y,address=5900 -jar start.jar Now start up the remote debugging session you just created in the IDE and you are attached to a live solr instance and able to step through any code you want. Either way, you can make the IDE work for you! FWIW, Erick On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 12:03 PM, Jack Krupansky j...@basetechnology.com wrote: We're using the 4.x branch code as the basis for our writing. So, effectively it will be for at least 4.3 when the book comes out in the summer. Early access will be in about a month or so. O'Reilly will be showing a galley proof for 200 pages of the book next week at Big Data TechCon next week in Boston. -- Jack Krupansky -Original Message- From: Jack Park Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 12:56 PM To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org Subject: Re: Flow Chart of Solr Jack, Is that new book up to the 4.+ series? Thanks The other Jack On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 9:19 AM, Jack Krupansky j...@basetechnology.com wrote: And another one on the way: http://www.amazon.com/Lucene-Solr-Definitive-comprehensive-realtime/dp/1449359957 Hopefully that help a lot as well. Plenty of diagrams. Lots of examples. -- Jack Krupansky -Original Message- From: Jack Park Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 11:25 AM To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org Subject: Re: Flow Chart of Solr There are three books on Solr, two with that in the title, and one, Taming Text, each of which have been very valuable in understanding Solr. Jack On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 5:25 AM, Jack Krupansky j...@basetechnology.com wrote: Sure, yes. But... it comes down to what level of detail you want and need for a specific task. In other words, there are probably a dozen or more levels of detail. The reality is that if you are going to work at the Solr code level, that is very, very different than being a user of Solr, and at that point your first step is to become familiar with the code itself. When you talk about parsing and stemming, you are really talking about the user-level, not the Solr code level. Maybe what you really need is a cheat sheet that maps a user-visible feature to the main Solr code component for that implements that user feature. There are a number of different forms of parsing in Solr - parsing of what? Queries? Requests? Solr documents? Function queries? Stemming? Well, in truth, Solr doesn't even do stemming - Lucene does that. Lucene does all of the token filtering. Are you asking for details on how Lucene works? Maybe you meant to ask how term analysis works, which is split between Solr and Lucene. Or maybe you simply wanted to know when and where term analysis is done. Tell us your specific problem or specific question and we can probably quickly give you an answer. In truth, NOBODY uses flow charts anymore. Sure, there are some user-level diagrams, but not down to the code level. If you could focus on specific questions, we could give you specific answers. Main steps? That depends on what level you are working at. Tell us what problem you are trying to solve and we can point you to the relevant areas. In truth, if you become generally familiar with Solr at the user level (study the wikis), you will already know what the main steps are. So, it is not main steps of Solr, but main steps of some specific request of Solr, and for a specified level of detail, and for a specified area of Solr if greater detail is needed. Be more specific, and then we can be more specific. For now, the general advice for people who need or want to go far beyond the user level is to get familiar with the code - just LOOK at it - a lot of the package and class names are OBVIOUS, really, and follow the class hierarchy and code flow using the standard features of any modern Java IDE. If you are wondering where to start for some specific user-level feature, please ask specifically about that feature. But... make a diligent effort to discover and learn on your own before asking open
Re: Flow Chart of Solr
Then there's my lazy method. Fire up the IDE and find a test case that looks close to something you want to understand further. Step through it all in the debugger. I admit there'll be some fumbling at the start to _find_ the test case, but they're pretty well named. In IntelliJ, all you have to do is right-click on the test case and the context menu says debug blahbalbhabl You can chart the class relationships you actually wind up in as you go. This seems tedious, but it saves me getting lost in the class hierarchy. Also, there are some convenient tools in the IDE that will show you class hierarchies as you need. Or attach your debugger to a running Solr, which is actually very easy. In IntelliJ (and Eclipse has something very similar), create a remote project. That'll specify some parameters you start up with, e.g.: java -Xdebug -Xrunjdwp:transport=dt_socket,server=y,suspend=y,address=5900 -jar start.jar Now start up the remote debugging session you just created in the IDE and you are attached to a live solr instance and able to step through any code you want. Either way, you can make the IDE work for you! FWIW, Erick On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 12:03 PM, Jack Krupansky j...@basetechnology.com wrote: We're using the 4.x branch code as the basis for our writing. So, effectively it will be for at least 4.3 when the book comes out in the summer. Early access will be in about a month or so. O'Reilly will be showing a galley proof for 200 pages of the book next week at Big Data TechCon next week in Boston. -- Jack Krupansky -Original Message- From: Jack Park Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 12:56 PM To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org Subject: Re: Flow Chart of Solr Jack, Is that new book up to the 4.+ series? Thanks The other Jack On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 9:19 AM, Jack Krupansky j...@basetechnology.com wrote: And another one on the way: http://www.amazon.com/Lucene-Solr-Definitive-comprehensive-realtime/dp/1449359957 Hopefully that help a lot as well. Plenty of diagrams. Lots of examples. -- Jack Krupansky -Original Message- From: Jack Park Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 11:25 AM To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org Subject: Re: Flow Chart of Solr There are three books on Solr, two with that in the title, and one, Taming Text, each of which have been very valuable in understanding Solr. Jack On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 5:25 AM, Jack Krupansky j...@basetechnology.com wrote: Sure, yes. But... it comes down to what level of detail you want and need for a specific task. In other words, there are probably a dozen or more levels of detail. The reality is that if you are going to work at the Solr code level, that is very, very different than being a user of Solr, and at that point your first step is to become familiar with the code itself. When you talk about parsing and stemming, you are really talking about the user-level, not the Solr code level. Maybe what you really need is a cheat sheet that maps a user-visible feature to the main Solr code component for that implements that user feature. There are a number of different forms of parsing in Solr - parsing of what? Queries? Requests? Solr documents? Function queries? Stemming? Well, in truth, Solr doesn't even do stemming - Lucene does that. Lucene does all of the token filtering. Are you asking for details on how Lucene works? Maybe you meant to ask how term analysis works, which is split between Solr and Lucene. Or maybe you simply wanted to know when and where term analysis is done. Tell us your specific problem or specific question and we can probably quickly give you an answer. In truth, NOBODY uses flow charts anymore. Sure, there are some user-level diagrams, but not down to the code level. If you could focus on specific questions, we could give you specific answers. Main steps? That depends on what level you are working at. Tell us what problem you are trying to solve and we can point you to the relevant areas. In truth, if you become generally familiar with Solr at the user level (study the wikis), you will already know what the main steps are. So, it is not main steps of Solr, but main steps of some specific request of Solr, and for a specified level of detail, and for a specified area of Solr if greater detail is needed. Be more specific, and then we can be more specific. For now, the general advice for people who need or want to go far beyond the user level is to get familiar with the code - just LOOK at it - a lot of the package and class names are OBVIOUS, really, and follow the class hierarchy and code flow using the standard features of any modern Java IDE. If you are wondering where to start for some specific user-level feature, please ask specifically about that feature. But... make a diligent effort to discover and learn on your own before asking open-ended questions. Sure, there are lots of things in Lucene and Solr
Re: Flow Chart of Solr
I have read books and wikis of Solr and Lucene and I had to debug the code to find which parts comes from other. I will tidy up my notes and share the pig picture flow and the detailed one. After that I will ask you for your opinions, thanks. 2013/4/5 Erick Erickson erickerick...@gmail.com Then there's my lazy method. Fire up the IDE and find a test case that looks close to something you want to understand further. Step through it all in the debugger. I admit there'll be some fumbling at the start to _find_ the test case, but they're pretty well named. In IntelliJ, all you have to do is right-click on the test case and the context menu says debug blahbalbhabl You can chart the class relationships you actually wind up in as you go. This seems tedious, but it saves me getting lost in the class hierarchy. Also, there are some convenient tools in the IDE that will show you class hierarchies as you need. Or attach your debugger to a running Solr, which is actually very easy. In IntelliJ (and Eclipse has something very similar), create a remote project. That'll specify some parameters you start up with, e.g.: java -Xdebug -Xrunjdwp:transport=dt_socket,server=y,suspend=y,address=5900 -jar start.jar Now start up the remote debugging session you just created in the IDE and you are attached to a live solr instance and able to step through any code you want. Either way, you can make the IDE work for you! FWIW, Erick On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 12:03 PM, Jack Krupansky j...@basetechnology.com wrote: We're using the 4.x branch code as the basis for our writing. So, effectively it will be for at least 4.3 when the book comes out in the summer. Early access will be in about a month or so. O'Reilly will be showing a galley proof for 200 pages of the book next week at Big Data TechCon next week in Boston. -- Jack Krupansky -Original Message- From: Jack Park Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 12:56 PM To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org Subject: Re: Flow Chart of Solr Jack, Is that new book up to the 4.+ series? Thanks The other Jack On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 9:19 AM, Jack Krupansky j...@basetechnology.com wrote: And another one on the way: http://www.amazon.com/Lucene-Solr-Definitive-comprehensive-realtime/dp/1449359957 Hopefully that help a lot as well. Plenty of diagrams. Lots of examples. -- Jack Krupansky -Original Message- From: Jack Park Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 11:25 AM To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org Subject: Re: Flow Chart of Solr There are three books on Solr, two with that in the title, and one, Taming Text, each of which have been very valuable in understanding Solr. Jack On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 5:25 AM, Jack Krupansky j...@basetechnology.com wrote: Sure, yes. But... it comes down to what level of detail you want and need for a specific task. In other words, there are probably a dozen or more levels of detail. The reality is that if you are going to work at the Solr code level, that is very, very different than being a user of Solr, and at that point your first step is to become familiar with the code itself. When you talk about parsing and stemming, you are really talking about the user-level, not the Solr code level. Maybe what you really need is a cheat sheet that maps a user-visible feature to the main Solr code component for that implements that user feature. There are a number of different forms of parsing in Solr - parsing of what? Queries? Requests? Solr documents? Function queries? Stemming? Well, in truth, Solr doesn't even do stemming - Lucene does that. Lucene does all of the token filtering. Are you asking for details on how Lucene works? Maybe you meant to ask how term analysis works, which is split between Solr and Lucene. Or maybe you simply wanted to know when and where term analysis is done. Tell us your specific problem or specific question and we can probably quickly give you an answer. In truth, NOBODY uses flow charts anymore. Sure, there are some user-level diagrams, but not down to the code level. If you could focus on specific questions, we could give you specific answers. Main steps? That depends on what level you are working at. Tell us what problem you are trying to solve and we can point you to the relevant areas. In truth, if you become generally familiar with Solr at the user level (study the wikis), you will already know what the main steps are. So, it is not main steps of Solr, but main steps of some specific request of Solr, and for a specified level of detail, and for a specified area of Solr if greater detail is needed. Be more specific, and then we can be more specific. For now, the general advice for people who need or want to go far beyond the user level is to get familiar with the code - just LOOK at it - a lot
Re: Flow Chart of Solr
So, all in all, is there anybody who can write down just main steps of Solr(including parsing, stemming etc.)? 2013/4/2 Furkan KAMACI furkankam...@gmail.com I think about myself as an example. I have started to make research about Solr just for some weeks. I have learned Solr and its related projects. My next step writing down the main steps Solr. We have separated learning curve of Solr into two main categories. First one is who are using it as out of the box components. Second one is developer side. Actually developer side branches into two way. First one is general steps of it. i.e. document comes into Solr (i.e. crawled data of Nutch). which analyzing processes are going to done (stamming, hamming etc.), what will be doing after parsing step by step. When a search query happens what happens step by step, at which step scores are calculated so on so forth. Second one is more code specific i.e. which handlers takes into account data that will going to be indexed(no need the explain every handler at this step) . Which are the analyzer, tokenizer classes and what are the flow between them. How response handlers works and what are they. Also explaining about cloud side is other work. Some of explanations are currently presents at wiki (but some of them are at very deep places at wiki and it is not easy to find the parent topic of it, maybe starting wiki from a top age and branching all other topics as possible as from it could be better) If we could show the big picture, and beside of it the smaller pictures within it, it would be great (if you know the main parts it will be easy to go deep into the code i.e. you don't need to explain every handler, if you show the way to the developer he/she could debug and find the needs) When I think about myself as an example, I have to write down the steps of Solr a bit detail even I read many pages at wiki and a book about it, I see that it is not easy even writing down the big picture of developer side. 2013/4/2 Alexandre Rafalovitch arafa...@gmail.com Yago, My point - perhaps lost in too much text - was that Solr is presented - and can function - as a black-box. Which makes it different from more traditional open-source project. So, the stage-2 happens exactly when the non-programmers have to cross the boundary from the black-box into code-first approach and the hand-off is not particularly smooth. Or even when - say - php or .Net programmer tries to get beyond the basic operations their client library and has the understand the server-side aspects of Solr. Regards, Alex. On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Yago Riveiro yago.rive...@gmail.com wrote: Alexandre, You describe the normal path when a beginner try to use a source of code that doesn't understand, black-box, reading code, hacking, ok now I know 10% of the project, with lucky :p. Personal blog: http://blog.outerthoughts.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/alexandrerafalovitch - Time is the quality of nature that keeps events from happening all at once. Lately, it doesn't seem to be working. (Anonymous - via GTD book)
Re: Flow Chart of Solr
Sure, yes. But... it comes down to what level of detail you want and need for a specific task. In other words, there are probably a dozen or more levels of detail. The reality is that if you are going to work at the Solr code level, that is very, very different than being a user of Solr, and at that point your first step is to become familiar with the code itself. When you talk about parsing and stemming, you are really talking about the user-level, not the Solr code level. Maybe what you really need is a cheat sheet that maps a user-visible feature to the main Solr code component for that implements that user feature. There are a number of different forms of parsing in Solr - parsing of what? Queries? Requests? Solr documents? Function queries? Stemming? Well, in truth, Solr doesn't even do stemming - Lucene does that. Lucene does all of the token filtering. Are you asking for details on how Lucene works? Maybe you meant to ask how term analysis works, which is split between Solr and Lucene. Or maybe you simply wanted to know when and where term analysis is done. Tell us your specific problem or specific question and we can probably quickly give you an answer. In truth, NOBODY uses flow charts anymore. Sure, there are some user-level diagrams, but not down to the code level. If you could focus on specific questions, we could give you specific answers. Main steps? That depends on what level you are working at. Tell us what problem you are trying to solve and we can point you to the relevant areas. In truth, if you become generally familiar with Solr at the user level (study the wikis), you will already know what the main steps are. So, it is not main steps of Solr, but main steps of some specific request of Solr, and for a specified level of detail, and for a specified area of Solr if greater detail is needed. Be more specific, and then we can be more specific. For now, the general advice for people who need or want to go far beyond the user level is to get familiar with the code - just LOOK at it - a lot of the package and class names are OBVIOUS, really, and follow the class hierarchy and code flow using the standard features of any modern Java IDE. If you are wondering where to start for some specific user-level feature, please ask specifically about that feature. But... make a diligent effort to discover and learn on your own before asking open-ended questions. Sure, there are lots of things in Lucene and Solr that are rather complex and seemingly convoluted, and not obvious, but people are more than willing to help you out if you simply ask a specific question. I mean, not everybody needs to know the fine detail of query parsing, analysis, building a Lucene-level stemmer, etc. If we tried to put all of that in a diagram, most people would be more confused than enlightened. At which step are scores calculated? That's more of a Lucene question. Or, are you really asking what code in Solr invokes Lucene search methods that calculate basic scores? In short, you need to be more specific. Don't force us to guess what problem you are trying to solve. -- Jack Krupansky -Original Message- From: Furkan KAMACI Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 6:52 AM To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org Subject: Re: Flow Chart of Solr So, all in all, is there anybody who can write down just main steps of Solr(including parsing, stemming etc.)? 2013/4/2 Furkan KAMACI furkankam...@gmail.com I think about myself as an example. I have started to make research about Solr just for some weeks. I have learned Solr and its related projects. My next step writing down the main steps Solr. We have separated learning curve of Solr into two main categories. First one is who are using it as out of the box components. Second one is developer side. Actually developer side branches into two way. First one is general steps of it. i.e. document comes into Solr (i.e. crawled data of Nutch). which analyzing processes are going to done (stamming, hamming etc.), what will be doing after parsing step by step. When a search query happens what happens step by step, at which step scores are calculated so on so forth. Second one is more code specific i.e. which handlers takes into account data that will going to be indexed(no need the explain every handler at this step) . Which are the analyzer, tokenizer classes and what are the flow between them. How response handlers works and what are they. Also explaining about cloud side is other work. Some of explanations are currently presents at wiki (but some of them are at very deep places at wiki and it is not easy to find the parent topic of it, maybe starting wiki from a top age and branching all other topics as possible as from it could be better) If we could show the big picture, and beside of it the smaller pictures within it, it would be great (if you know the main parts it will be easy to go deep into the code i.e. you don't
Re: Flow Chart of Solr
There are three books on Solr, two with that in the title, and one, Taming Text, each of which have been very valuable in understanding Solr. Jack On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 5:25 AM, Jack Krupansky j...@basetechnology.com wrote: Sure, yes. But... it comes down to what level of detail you want and need for a specific task. In other words, there are probably a dozen or more levels of detail. The reality is that if you are going to work at the Solr code level, that is very, very different than being a user of Solr, and at that point your first step is to become familiar with the code itself. When you talk about parsing and stemming, you are really talking about the user-level, not the Solr code level. Maybe what you really need is a cheat sheet that maps a user-visible feature to the main Solr code component for that implements that user feature. There are a number of different forms of parsing in Solr - parsing of what? Queries? Requests? Solr documents? Function queries? Stemming? Well, in truth, Solr doesn't even do stemming - Lucene does that. Lucene does all of the token filtering. Are you asking for details on how Lucene works? Maybe you meant to ask how term analysis works, which is split between Solr and Lucene. Or maybe you simply wanted to know when and where term analysis is done. Tell us your specific problem or specific question and we can probably quickly give you an answer. In truth, NOBODY uses flow charts anymore. Sure, there are some user-level diagrams, but not down to the code level. If you could focus on specific questions, we could give you specific answers. Main steps? That depends on what level you are working at. Tell us what problem you are trying to solve and we can point you to the relevant areas. In truth, if you become generally familiar with Solr at the user level (study the wikis), you will already know what the main steps are. So, it is not main steps of Solr, but main steps of some specific request of Solr, and for a specified level of detail, and for a specified area of Solr if greater detail is needed. Be more specific, and then we can be more specific. For now, the general advice for people who need or want to go far beyond the user level is to get familiar with the code - just LOOK at it - a lot of the package and class names are OBVIOUS, really, and follow the class hierarchy and code flow using the standard features of any modern Java IDE. If you are wondering where to start for some specific user-level feature, please ask specifically about that feature. But... make a diligent effort to discover and learn on your own before asking open-ended questions. Sure, there are lots of things in Lucene and Solr that are rather complex and seemingly convoluted, and not obvious, but people are more than willing to help you out if you simply ask a specific question. I mean, not everybody needs to know the fine detail of query parsing, analysis, building a Lucene-level stemmer, etc. If we tried to put all of that in a diagram, most people would be more confused than enlightened. At which step are scores calculated? That's more of a Lucene question. Or, are you really asking what code in Solr invokes Lucene search methods that calculate basic scores? In short, you need to be more specific. Don't force us to guess what problem you are trying to solve. -- Jack Krupansky -Original Message- From: Furkan KAMACI Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 6:52 AM To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org Subject: Re: Flow Chart of Solr So, all in all, is there anybody who can write down just main steps of Solr(including parsing, stemming etc.)? 2013/4/2 Furkan KAMACI furkankam...@gmail.com I think about myself as an example. I have started to make research about Solr just for some weeks. I have learned Solr and its related projects. My next step writing down the main steps Solr. We have separated learning curve of Solr into two main categories. First one is who are using it as out of the box components. Second one is developer side. Actually developer side branches into two way. First one is general steps of it. i.e. document comes into Solr (i.e. crawled data of Nutch). which analyzing processes are going to done (stamming, hamming etc.), what will be doing after parsing step by step. When a search query happens what happens step by step, at which step scores are calculated so on so forth. Second one is more code specific i.e. which handlers takes into account data that will going to be indexed(no need the explain every handler at this step) . Which are the analyzer, tokenizer classes and what are the flow between them. How response handlers works and what are they. Also explaining about cloud side is other work. Some of explanations are currently presents at wiki (but some of them are at very deep places at wiki and it is not easy to find the parent topic of it, maybe starting wiki from a top age
Re: Flow Chart of Solr
And another one on the way: http://www.amazon.com/Lucene-Solr-Definitive-comprehensive-realtime/dp/1449359957 Hopefully that help a lot as well. Plenty of diagrams. Lots of examples. -- Jack Krupansky -Original Message- From: Jack Park Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 11:25 AM To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org Subject: Re: Flow Chart of Solr There are three books on Solr, two with that in the title, and one, Taming Text, each of which have been very valuable in understanding Solr. Jack On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 5:25 AM, Jack Krupansky j...@basetechnology.com wrote: Sure, yes. But... it comes down to what level of detail you want and need for a specific task. In other words, there are probably a dozen or more levels of detail. The reality is that if you are going to work at the Solr code level, that is very, very different than being a user of Solr, and at that point your first step is to become familiar with the code itself. When you talk about parsing and stemming, you are really talking about the user-level, not the Solr code level. Maybe what you really need is a cheat sheet that maps a user-visible feature to the main Solr code component for that implements that user feature. There are a number of different forms of parsing in Solr - parsing of what? Queries? Requests? Solr documents? Function queries? Stemming? Well, in truth, Solr doesn't even do stemming - Lucene does that. Lucene does all of the token filtering. Are you asking for details on how Lucene works? Maybe you meant to ask how term analysis works, which is split between Solr and Lucene. Or maybe you simply wanted to know when and where term analysis is done. Tell us your specific problem or specific question and we can probably quickly give you an answer. In truth, NOBODY uses flow charts anymore. Sure, there are some user-level diagrams, but not down to the code level. If you could focus on specific questions, we could give you specific answers. Main steps? That depends on what level you are working at. Tell us what problem you are trying to solve and we can point you to the relevant areas. In truth, if you become generally familiar with Solr at the user level (study the wikis), you will already know what the main steps are. So, it is not main steps of Solr, but main steps of some specific request of Solr, and for a specified level of detail, and for a specified area of Solr if greater detail is needed. Be more specific, and then we can be more specific. For now, the general advice for people who need or want to go far beyond the user level is to get familiar with the code - just LOOK at it - a lot of the package and class names are OBVIOUS, really, and follow the class hierarchy and code flow using the standard features of any modern Java IDE. If you are wondering where to start for some specific user-level feature, please ask specifically about that feature. But... make a diligent effort to discover and learn on your own before asking open-ended questions. Sure, there are lots of things in Lucene and Solr that are rather complex and seemingly convoluted, and not obvious, but people are more than willing to help you out if you simply ask a specific question. I mean, not everybody needs to know the fine detail of query parsing, analysis, building a Lucene-level stemmer, etc. If we tried to put all of that in a diagram, most people would be more confused than enlightened. At which step are scores calculated? That's more of a Lucene question. Or, are you really asking what code in Solr invokes Lucene search methods that calculate basic scores? In short, you need to be more specific. Don't force us to guess what problem you are trying to solve. -- Jack Krupansky -Original Message- From: Furkan KAMACI Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 6:52 AM To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org Subject: Re: Flow Chart of Solr So, all in all, is there anybody who can write down just main steps of Solr(including parsing, stemming etc.)? 2013/4/2 Furkan KAMACI furkankam...@gmail.com I think about myself as an example. I have started to make research about Solr just for some weeks. I have learned Solr and its related projects. My next step writing down the main steps Solr. We have separated learning curve of Solr into two main categories. First one is who are using it as out of the box components. Second one is developer side. Actually developer side branches into two way. First one is general steps of it. i.e. document comes into Solr (i.e. crawled data of Nutch). which analyzing processes are going to done (stamming, hamming etc.), what will be doing after parsing step by step. When a search query happens what happens step by step, at which step scores are calculated so on so forth. Second one is more code specific i.e. which handlers takes into account data that will going to be indexed(no need the explain every handler at this step) . Which are the analyzer, tokenizer classes and what
Re: Flow Chart of Solr
Jack, Is that new book up to the 4.+ series? Thanks The other Jack On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 9:19 AM, Jack Krupansky j...@basetechnology.com wrote: And another one on the way: http://www.amazon.com/Lucene-Solr-Definitive-comprehensive-realtime/dp/1449359957 Hopefully that help a lot as well. Plenty of diagrams. Lots of examples. -- Jack Krupansky -Original Message- From: Jack Park Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 11:25 AM To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org Subject: Re: Flow Chart of Solr There are three books on Solr, two with that in the title, and one, Taming Text, each of which have been very valuable in understanding Solr. Jack On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 5:25 AM, Jack Krupansky j...@basetechnology.com wrote: Sure, yes. But... it comes down to what level of detail you want and need for a specific task. In other words, there are probably a dozen or more levels of detail. The reality is that if you are going to work at the Solr code level, that is very, very different than being a user of Solr, and at that point your first step is to become familiar with the code itself. When you talk about parsing and stemming, you are really talking about the user-level, not the Solr code level. Maybe what you really need is a cheat sheet that maps a user-visible feature to the main Solr code component for that implements that user feature. There are a number of different forms of parsing in Solr - parsing of what? Queries? Requests? Solr documents? Function queries? Stemming? Well, in truth, Solr doesn't even do stemming - Lucene does that. Lucene does all of the token filtering. Are you asking for details on how Lucene works? Maybe you meant to ask how term analysis works, which is split between Solr and Lucene. Or maybe you simply wanted to know when and where term analysis is done. Tell us your specific problem or specific question and we can probably quickly give you an answer. In truth, NOBODY uses flow charts anymore. Sure, there are some user-level diagrams, but not down to the code level. If you could focus on specific questions, we could give you specific answers. Main steps? That depends on what level you are working at. Tell us what problem you are trying to solve and we can point you to the relevant areas. In truth, if you become generally familiar with Solr at the user level (study the wikis), you will already know what the main steps are. So, it is not main steps of Solr, but main steps of some specific request of Solr, and for a specified level of detail, and for a specified area of Solr if greater detail is needed. Be more specific, and then we can be more specific. For now, the general advice for people who need or want to go far beyond the user level is to get familiar with the code - just LOOK at it - a lot of the package and class names are OBVIOUS, really, and follow the class hierarchy and code flow using the standard features of any modern Java IDE. If you are wondering where to start for some specific user-level feature, please ask specifically about that feature. But... make a diligent effort to discover and learn on your own before asking open-ended questions. Sure, there are lots of things in Lucene and Solr that are rather complex and seemingly convoluted, and not obvious, but people are more than willing to help you out if you simply ask a specific question. I mean, not everybody needs to know the fine detail of query parsing, analysis, building a Lucene-level stemmer, etc. If we tried to put all of that in a diagram, most people would be more confused than enlightened. At which step are scores calculated? That's more of a Lucene question. Or, are you really asking what code in Solr invokes Lucene search methods that calculate basic scores? In short, you need to be more specific. Don't force us to guess what problem you are trying to solve. -- Jack Krupansky -Original Message- From: Furkan KAMACI Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 6:52 AM To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org Subject: Re: Flow Chart of Solr So, all in all, is there anybody who can write down just main steps of Solr(including parsing, stemming etc.)? 2013/4/2 Furkan KAMACI furkankam...@gmail.com I think about myself as an example. I have started to make research about Solr just for some weeks. I have learned Solr and its related projects. My next step writing down the main steps Solr. We have separated learning curve of Solr into two main categories. First one is who are using it as out of the box components. Second one is developer side. Actually developer side branches into two way. First one is general steps of it. i.e. document comes into Solr (i.e. crawled data of Nutch). which analyzing processes are going to done (stamming, hamming etc.), what will be doing after parsing step by step. When a search query happens what happens step by step, at which step scores are calculated so on so forth
Re: Flow Chart of Solr
We're using the 4.x branch code as the basis for our writing. So, effectively it will be for at least 4.3 when the book comes out in the summer. Early access will be in about a month or so. O'Reilly will be showing a galley proof for 200 pages of the book next week at Big Data TechCon next week in Boston. -- Jack Krupansky -Original Message- From: Jack Park Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 12:56 PM To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org Subject: Re: Flow Chart of Solr Jack, Is that new book up to the 4.+ series? Thanks The other Jack On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 9:19 AM, Jack Krupansky j...@basetechnology.com wrote: And another one on the way: http://www.amazon.com/Lucene-Solr-Definitive-comprehensive-realtime/dp/1449359957 Hopefully that help a lot as well. Plenty of diagrams. Lots of examples. -- Jack Krupansky -Original Message- From: Jack Park Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 11:25 AM To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org Subject: Re: Flow Chart of Solr There are three books on Solr, two with that in the title, and one, Taming Text, each of which have been very valuable in understanding Solr. Jack On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 5:25 AM, Jack Krupansky j...@basetechnology.com wrote: Sure, yes. But... it comes down to what level of detail you want and need for a specific task. In other words, there are probably a dozen or more levels of detail. The reality is that if you are going to work at the Solr code level, that is very, very different than being a user of Solr, and at that point your first step is to become familiar with the code itself. When you talk about parsing and stemming, you are really talking about the user-level, not the Solr code level. Maybe what you really need is a cheat sheet that maps a user-visible feature to the main Solr code component for that implements that user feature. There are a number of different forms of parsing in Solr - parsing of what? Queries? Requests? Solr documents? Function queries? Stemming? Well, in truth, Solr doesn't even do stemming - Lucene does that. Lucene does all of the token filtering. Are you asking for details on how Lucene works? Maybe you meant to ask how term analysis works, which is split between Solr and Lucene. Or maybe you simply wanted to know when and where term analysis is done. Tell us your specific problem or specific question and we can probably quickly give you an answer. In truth, NOBODY uses flow charts anymore. Sure, there are some user-level diagrams, but not down to the code level. If you could focus on specific questions, we could give you specific answers. Main steps? That depends on what level you are working at. Tell us what problem you are trying to solve and we can point you to the relevant areas. In truth, if you become generally familiar with Solr at the user level (study the wikis), you will already know what the main steps are. So, it is not main steps of Solr, but main steps of some specific request of Solr, and for a specified level of detail, and for a specified area of Solr if greater detail is needed. Be more specific, and then we can be more specific. For now, the general advice for people who need or want to go far beyond the user level is to get familiar with the code - just LOOK at it - a lot of the package and class names are OBVIOUS, really, and follow the class hierarchy and code flow using the standard features of any modern Java IDE. If you are wondering where to start for some specific user-level feature, please ask specifically about that feature. But... make a diligent effort to discover and learn on your own before asking open-ended questions. Sure, there are lots of things in Lucene and Solr that are rather complex and seemingly convoluted, and not obvious, but people are more than willing to help you out if you simply ask a specific question. I mean, not everybody needs to know the fine detail of query parsing, analysis, building a Lucene-level stemmer, etc. If we tried to put all of that in a diagram, most people would be more confused than enlightened. At which step are scores calculated? That's more of a Lucene question. Or, are you really asking what code in Solr invokes Lucene search methods that calculate basic scores? In short, you need to be more specific. Don't force us to guess what problem you are trying to solve. -- Jack Krupansky -Original Message- From: Furkan KAMACI Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 6:52 AM To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org Subject: Re: Flow Chart of Solr So, all in all, is there anybody who can write down just main steps of Solr(including parsing, stemming etc.)? 2013/4/2 Furkan KAMACI furkankam...@gmail.com I think about myself as an example. I have started to make research about Solr just for some weeks. I have learned Solr and its related projects. My next step writing down the main steps Solr. We have separated learning curve of Solr into two main categories. First one is who are using it as out of the box
Re: Flow Chart of Solr
(13/04/02 21:45), Furkan KAMACI wrote: Is there any documentation something like flow chart of Solr. i.e. Documents comes into Solr(maybe indicating which classes get documents) and goes to parsing process (i.e. stemming processes etc.) and then reverse indexes are get so on so forth? There is an interesting ticket: Architecture Diagrams needed for Lucene, Solr and Nutch https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LUCENE-2412 koji -- http://soleami.com/blog/lucene-4-is-super-convenient-for-developing-nlp-tools.html
Re: Flow Chart of Solr
On 04/02/2013 04:20 PM, Koji Sekiguchi wrote: (13/04/02 21:45), Furkan KAMACI wrote: Is there any documentation something like flow chart of Solr. i.e. Documents comes into Solr(maybe indicating which classes get documents) and goes to parsing process (i.e. stemming processes etc.) and then reverse indexes are get so on so forth? There is an interesting ticket: Architecture Diagrams needed for Lucene, Solr and Nutch https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LUCENE-2412 koji I like this one, it is a bit more detailed : http://www.cominvent.com/2011/04/04/solr-architecture-diagram/ -- André Bois-Crettez Search technology, Kelkoo http://www.kelkoo.com/ Kelkoo SAS Société par Actions Simplifiée Au capital de € 4.168.964,30 Siège social : 8, rue du Sentier 75002 Paris 425 093 069 RCS Paris Ce message et les pièces jointes sont confidentiels et établis à l'attention exclusive de leurs destinataires. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire de ce message, merci de le détruire et d'en avertir l'expéditeur.
Re: Flow Chart of Solr
Actually maybe one the most important core thing is that Analysis part at last diagram but there is nothing about it i.e. stamming, lemmitazing etc. at any of them. 2013/4/2 Andre Bois-Crettez andre.b...@kelkoo.com On 04/02/2013 04:20 PM, Koji Sekiguchi wrote: (13/04/02 21:45), Furkan KAMACI wrote: Is there any documentation something like flow chart of Solr. i.e. Documents comes into Solr(maybe indicating which classes get documents) and goes to parsing process (i.e. stemming processes etc.) and then reverse indexes are get so on so forth? There is an interesting ticket: Architecture Diagrams needed for Lucene, Solr and Nutch https://issues.apache.org/**jira/browse/LUCENE-2412https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LUCENE-2412 koji I like this one, it is a bit more detailed : http://www.cominvent.com/2011/**04/04/solr-architecture-**diagram/http://www.cominvent.com/2011/04/04/solr-architecture-diagram/ -- André Bois-Crettez Search technology, Kelkoo http://www.kelkoo.com/ Kelkoo SAS Société par Actions Simplifiée Au capital de € 4.168.964,30 Siège social : 8, rue du Sentier 75002 Paris 425 093 069 RCS Paris Ce message et les pièces jointes sont confidentiels et établis à l'attention exclusive de leurs destinataires. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire de ce message, merci de le détruire et d'en avertir l'expéditeur.
Re: Flow Chart of Solr
For beginners is complicate understand the complexity of solr / lucene, I'm trying devel a custom search component and it's too hard keep in mind the flow, inheritance and iteration between classes. I think that there is a gap between software doc and user doc, or maybe I don't search enough T_T. Java doc not always is clear always. The fact that I'm beginner in solr world don't help. Either way, this thread was very helpful, I found some very good resources here :) Cumprimentos -- Yago Riveiro Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig) On Tuesday, April 2, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Furkan KAMACI wrote: Actually maybe one the most important core thing is that Analysis part at last diagram but there is nothing about it i.e. stamming, lemmitazing etc. at any of them. 2013/4/2 Andre Bois-Crettez andre.b...@kelkoo.com (mailto:andre.b...@kelkoo.com) On 04/02/2013 04:20 PM, Koji Sekiguchi wrote: (13/04/02 21:45), Furkan KAMACI wrote: Is there any documentation something like flow chart of Solr. i.e. Documents comes into Solr(maybe indicating which classes get documents) and goes to parsing process (i.e. stemming processes etc.) and then reverse indexes are get so on so forth? There is an interesting ticket: Architecture Diagrams needed for Lucene, Solr and Nutch https://issues.apache.org/**jira/browse/LUCENE-2412https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LUCENE-2412 koji I like this one, it is a bit more detailed : http://www.cominvent.com/2011/**04/04/solr-architecture-**diagram/http://www.cominvent.com/2011/04/04/solr-architecture-diagram/ -- André Bois-Crettez Search technology, Kelkoo http://www.kelkoo.com/ Kelkoo SAS Société par Actions Simplifiée Au capital de € 4.168.964,30 Siège social : 8, rue du Sentier 75002 Paris 425 093 069 RCS Paris Ce message et les pièces jointes sont confidentiels et établis à l'attention exclusive de leurs destinataires. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire de ce message, merci de le détruire et d'en avertir l'expéditeur.
Re: Flow Chart of Solr
You are right about mentioning developer doc and user doc. Users separate about it. Some of them uses Solr for indexing and monitoring via admin face and that is quietly enough for them however some people wants to modify it so it would be nice if there had been some documentation for developer side too. 2013/4/2 Yago Riveiro yago.rive...@gmail.com For beginners is complicate understand the complexity of solr / lucene, I'm trying devel a custom search component and it's too hard keep in mind the flow, inheritance and iteration between classes. I think that there is a gap between software doc and user doc, or maybe I don't search enough T_T. Java doc not always is clear always. The fact that I'm beginner in solr world don't help. Either way, this thread was very helpful, I found some very good resources here :) Cumprimentos -- Yago Riveiro Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig) On Tuesday, April 2, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Furkan KAMACI wrote: Actually maybe one the most important core thing is that Analysis part at last diagram but there is nothing about it i.e. stamming, lemmitazing etc. at any of them. 2013/4/2 Andre Bois-Crettez andre.b...@kelkoo.com (mailto: andre.b...@kelkoo.com) On 04/02/2013 04:20 PM, Koji Sekiguchi wrote: (13/04/02 21:45), Furkan KAMACI wrote: Is there any documentation something like flow chart of Solr. i.e. Documents comes into Solr(maybe indicating which classes get documents) and goes to parsing process (i.e. stemming processes etc.) and then reverse indexes are get so on so forth? There is an interesting ticket: Architecture Diagrams needed for Lucene, Solr and Nutch https://issues.apache.org/**jira/browse/LUCENE-2412 https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LUCENE-2412 koji I like this one, it is a bit more detailed : http://www.cominvent.com/2011/**04/04/solr-architecture-**diagram/ http://www.cominvent.com/2011/04/04/solr-architecture-diagram/ -- André Bois-Crettez Search technology, Kelkoo http://www.kelkoo.com/ Kelkoo SAS Société par Actions Simplifiée Au capital de € 4.168.964,30 Siège social : 8, rue du Sentier 75002 Paris 425 093 069 RCS Paris Ce message et les pièces jointes sont confidentiels et établis à l'attention exclusive de leurs destinataires. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire de ce message, merci de le détruire et d'en avertir l'expéditeur.
Re: Flow Chart of Solr
important core thing is that Analysis part at last diagram but there is nothing about it i.e. stamming, lemmitazing etc. at any of them. 2013/4/2 Andre Bois-Crettez andre.b...@kelkoo.com (mailto: andre.b...@kelkoo.com) On 04/02/2013 04:20 PM, Koji Sekiguchi wrote: (13/04/02 21:45), Furkan KAMACI wrote: Is there any documentation something like flow chart of Solr. i.e. Documents comes into Solr(maybe indicating which classes get documents) and goes to parsing process (i.e. stemming processes etc.) and then reverse indexes are get so on so forth? There is an interesting ticket: Architecture Diagrams needed for Lucene, Solr and Nutch https://issues.apache.org/**jira/browse/LUCENE-2412 https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LUCENE-2412 koji I like this one, it is a bit more detailed : http://www.cominvent.com/2011/**04/04/solr-architecture-**diagram/ http://www.cominvent.com/2011/04/04/solr-architecture-diagram/ -- André Bois-Crettez Search technology, Kelkoo http://www.kelkoo.com/ Kelkoo SAS Société par Actions Simplifiée Au capital de € 4.168.964,30 Siège social : 8, rue du Sentier 75002 Paris 425 093 069 RCS Paris Ce message et les pièces jointes sont confidentiels et établis à l'attention exclusive de leurs destinataires. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire de ce message, merci de le détruire et d'en avertir l'expéditeur.
Re: Flow Chart of Solr
Alexandre, You describe the normal path when a beginner try to use a source of code that doesn't understand, black-box, reading code, hacking, ok now I know 10% of the project, with lucky :p. First at all, the Solr community is fantastic and always helps when I need it. IMHO the devel documentation is dispersed in a lot of sources, blogs, wiki, lucidWorks wiki (I know that this wiki was donated to apache and it's in progress to present to the world as part of the project). The curve for do funny thing with Solr at source level is hard, I see a lot of webinars teaching how deploy and use solr, but not how developing a ResponseWriter or a SearchComponent. Unfortunately I don't have the knowledge to contribute right, in the future … will see. -- Yago Riveiro Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig) On Tuesday, April 2, 2013 at 5:24 PM, Alexandre Rafalovitch wrote: ommunity. I am trying to do my share throu
Re: Flow Chart of Solr
Yago, My point - perhaps lost in too much text - was that Solr is presented - and can function - as a black-box. Which makes it different from more traditional open-source project. So, the stage-2 happens exactly when the non-programmers have to cross the boundary from the black-box into code-first approach and the hand-off is not particularly smooth. Or even when - say - php or .Net programmer tries to get beyond the basic operations their client library and has the understand the server-side aspects of Solr. Regards, Alex. On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Yago Riveiro yago.rive...@gmail.com wrote: Alexandre, You describe the normal path when a beginner try to use a source of code that doesn't understand, black-box, reading code, hacking, ok now I know 10% of the project, with lucky :p. Personal blog: http://blog.outerthoughts.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/alexandrerafalovitch - Time is the quality of nature that keeps events from happening all at once. Lately, it doesn't seem to be working. (Anonymous - via GTD book)
Re: Flow Chart of Solr
I think about myself as an example. I have started to make research about Solr just for some weeks. I have learned Solr and its related projects. My next step writing down the main steps Solr. We have separated learning curve of Solr into two main categories. First one is who are using it as out of the box components. Second one is developer side. Actually developer side branches into two way. First one is general steps of it. i.e. document comes into Solr (i.e. crawled data of Nutch). which analyzing processes are going to done (stamming, hamming etc.), what will be doing after parsing step by step. When a search query happens what happens step by step, at which step scores are calculated so on so forth. Second one is more code specific i.e. which handlers takes into account data that will going to be indexed(no need the explain every handler at this step) . Which are the analyzer, tokenizer classes and what are the flow between them. How response handlers works and what are they. Also explaining about cloud side is other work. Some of explanations are currently presents at wiki (but some of them are at very deep places at wiki and it is not easy to find the parent topic of it, maybe starting wiki from a top age and branching all other topics as possible as from it could be better) If we could show the big picture, and beside of it the smaller pictures within it, it would be great (if you know the main parts it will be easy to go deep into the code i.e. you don't need to explain every handler, if you show the way to the developer he/she could debug and find the needs) When I think about myself as an example, I have to write down the steps of Solr a bit detail even I read many pages at wiki and a book about it, I see that it is not easy even writing down the big picture of developer side. 2013/4/2 Alexandre Rafalovitch arafa...@gmail.com Yago, My point - perhaps lost in too much text - was that Solr is presented - and can function - as a black-box. Which makes it different from more traditional open-source project. So, the stage-2 happens exactly when the non-programmers have to cross the boundary from the black-box into code-first approach and the hand-off is not particularly smooth. Or even when - say - php or .Net programmer tries to get beyond the basic operations their client library and has the understand the server-side aspects of Solr. Regards, Alex. On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Yago Riveiro yago.rive...@gmail.com wrote: Alexandre, You describe the normal path when a beginner try to use a source of code that doesn't understand, black-box, reading code, hacking, ok now I know 10% of the project, with lucky :p. Personal blog: http://blog.outerthoughts.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/alexandrerafalovitch - Time is the quality of nature that keeps events from happening all at once. Lately, it doesn't seem to be working. (Anonymous - via GTD book)
