RE: Building Heights Requiring Standpipes
If you are using electric flow switches most of them have a built in retard feature (or time delay) witch allow the flow switch to absorb a pressure surge with out activating the alarms. This was meant to replace the old fashioned Retard Chamber used in conjunction with Alarm Valves. Regards, G. Tim Stone G. Tim Stone Consulting, LLC NICET Level III Engineering Technician Fire Protection Sprinkler Design and Consulting Services 117 Old Stage Rd. - Essex Jct., VT. 05452 CELL: (802) 373-0638 TEL: (802) 434-2968 tston...@comcast.net -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum On Behalf Of Cesar Lira Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2018 1:53 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Building Heights Requiring Standpipes Hi. I have a doubt. NFPA13 request that all sprinklers system shall have a Retarding device. But in our sprinkler systems installed we are not using it. Because we have a water flow sensor above check alarm instead of an alarm pressure switch or water motor alarm. Is it correct as I have it?. What would be the purpose of installing the retarding device if the alarm pressure switch or water motor alarm are not installed. My client demands to me this devices and I am looking for how can defend that I not having installed it I need to know if a water flow alarm and the pressure switch alarm are both necessary? Or just one of this options. ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
RE: Building Heights Requiring Standpipes
Cesar, I believe that this is only required for alarm check valves. Does your system have one? If not the retard device should not be required. Thank you, Bob Knight, CET III 208-318-3057 -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Cesar Lira Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 11:53 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Building Heights Requiring Standpipes Hi. I have a doubt. NFPA13 request that all sprinklers system shall have a Retarding device. But in our sprinkler systems installed we are not using it. Because we have a water flow sensor above check alarm instead of an alarm pressure switch or water motor alarm. Is it correct as I have it?. What would be the purpose of installing the retarding device if the alarm pressure switch or water motor alarm are not installed. My client demands to me this devices and I am looking for how can defend that I not having installed it I need to know if a water flow alarm and the pressure switch alarm are both necessary? Or just one of this options. ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
RE: Building Heights Requiring Standpipes
Hi. I have a doubt. NFPA13 request that all sprinklers system shall have a Retarding device. But in our sprinkler systems installed we are not using it. Because we have a water flow sensor above check alarm instead of an alarm pressure switch or water motor alarm. Is it correct as I have it?. What would be the purpose of installing the retarding device if the alarm pressure switch or water motor alarm are not installed. My client demands to me this devices and I am looking for how can defend that I not having installed it I need to know if a water flow alarm and the pressure switch alarm are both necessary? Or just one of this options. ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
RE: Building Heights Requiring Standpipes
2015 IBC [F] 905.3 Required installations. Standpipe systems shall be installed where required by Sections 905.3.1 through 905.3.8.Standpipe systems are allowed to be combined with automatic sprinkler systems. Exception: Standpipe systems are not required in Group R-3 occupancies. [F] 905.3.1 Height. Class III standpipe systems shall be installed throughout buildings where the floor level of the highest story is located more than 30 feet (9144 mm) above the lowest level of fire department vehicle access, or where the floor level of the lowest story is located more than 30 feet (9144 mm) below the highest level of fire department vehicle access. Exceptions: 1. Class I standpipes are allowed in buildings equipped throughout with an automatic sprinkler system in accordance with Section 903.3.1.1 or 903.3.1.2. 2. Class I manual standpipes are allowed in open parking garages where the highest floor is located not more than 150 feet (45 720 mm) above the lowest level of fire department vehicle access. 3. Class I manual dry standpipes are allowed in open parking garages that are subject to freezing temperatures, provided that the hose connections are located as required for Class II standpipes in accordance with Section 905.5. 4. Class I standpipes are allowed in basements equipped throughout with an automatic sprinkler system. 5. In determining the lowest level of fire department vehicle access, it shall not be required to consider either of the following: 5.1. Recessed loading docks for four vehicles or less. 5.2. Conditions where topography makes access from the fire department vehicle to the building impractical or impossible John Drucker, CET Fire and Electrical Subcode Official Building Inspector Building Department Borough of Red Bank, NJ Cell/Text 732-904-6823 From: Sprinklerforum [sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] on behalf of Taylor Schumacher [tay...@sfsprinkler.com] Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 8:39 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Building Heights Requiring Standpipes We had already walked through the IBC and all the pictures but he wants more solid info. I’ve reached out to the State Fire Marshal and they had agreed to write up an explanation. Like Steve explained, the access to the building and stairwells is at grade plane, which is first floor in this case, and is where the fire fighting appurtenances are located. Thanks, Taylor Schumacher From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Steele, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2018 5:45 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Building Heights Requiring Standpipes Good example diagrams are in the ICC Fire /Bldg Code Commentary books. On Aug 8, 2018 18:01, Jim Davidson wrote: Go to the Building Code for the definition of height above lowest level of FD Access, if ICC’s IBC then call for a code interpretation and if needed ask for a written response. The ICC has been through this problem a few times. Some jurisdictions specifically define the height above the lowest level of FD access. Have a fire safe day! Jim Davidson From: Sprinklerforum On Behalf Of Taylor Schumacher Sent: Wednesday, August 8, 2018 5:55 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Building Heights Requiring Standpipes I have an AHJ that is adamant that a 3-story 13R project I have requires Class I standpipes because the underground parking level will exceed the 30’ height requirement. I have always viewed these heights as from the parking lot closest to main entry or where the FDC is located rather than the fire truck driving into the garage. Have I been looking at this wrong? Taylor Schumacher ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
RE: Building Heights Requiring Standpipes
We had already walked through the IBC and all the pictures but he wants more solid info. I've reached out to the State Fire Marshal and they had agreed to write up an explanation. Like Steve explained, the access to the building and stairwells is at grade plane, which is first floor in this case, and is where the fire fighting appurtenances are located. Thanks, Taylor Schumacher From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Steele, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2018 5:45 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Building Heights Requiring Standpipes Good example diagrams are in the ICC Fire /Bldg Code Commentary books. On Aug 8, 2018 18:01, Jim Davidson mailto:jdavid...@davidsonassociates.net>> wrote: Go to the Building Code for the definition of height above lowest level of FD Access, if ICC's IBC then call for a code interpretation and if needed ask for a written response. The ICC has been through this problem a few times. Some jurisdictions specifically define the height above the lowest level of FD access. Have a fire safe day! Jim Davidson From: Sprinklerforum mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>> On Behalf Of Taylor Schumacher Sent: Wednesday, August 8, 2018 5:55 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Subject: Building Heights Requiring Standpipes I have an AHJ that is adamant that a 3-story 13R project I have requires Class I standpipes because the underground parking level will exceed the 30' height requirement. I have always viewed these heights as from the parking lot closest to main entry or where the FDC is located rather than the fire truck driving into the garage. Have I been looking at this wrong? Taylor Schumacher ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
RE: Building Heights Requiring Standpipes
Good example diagrams are in the ICC Fire /Bldg Code Commentary books. On Aug 8, 2018 18:01, Jim Davidson wrote: Go to the Building Code for the definition of height above lowest level of FD Access, if ICC's IBC then call for a code interpretation and if needed ask for a written response. The ICC has been through this problem a few times. Some jurisdictions specifically define the height above the lowest level of FD access. Have a fire safe day! Jim Davidson From: Sprinklerforum On Behalf Of Taylor Schumacher Sent: Wednesday, August 8, 2018 5:55 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Building Heights Requiring Standpipes I have an AHJ that is adamant that a 3-story 13R project I have requires Class I standpipes because the underground parking level will exceed the 30' height requirement. I have always viewed these heights as from the parking lot closest to main entry or where the FDC is located rather than the fire truck driving into the garage. Have I been looking at this wrong? Taylor Schumacher ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
Re: Building Heights Requiring Standpipes
I think the code says if the highest floor elevation exceeds 30' above the lowest level of fire department access, stand pipes are required. Not quoting just remembering off the top of my head. On Wed, Aug 8, 2018, 5:55 PM Taylor Schumacher wrote: > I have an AHJ that is adamant that a 3-story 13R project I have requires > Class I standpipes because the underground parking level will exceed the > 30’ height requirement. I have always viewed these heights as from the > parking lot closest to main entry or where the FDC is located rather than > the fire truck driving into the garage. Have I been looking at this wrong? > > > > > > *Taylor Schumacher* > ___ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
RE: Building Heights Requiring Standpipes
What Jim said. The measurement is from grade plane, so if there is a fire apparatus access at the lowest (basement) level, then standpipes in fact might be required. But if the ground (first of three) floor is the access grade plane, then the metrics are from that surface to the finished third floor in this case and if it's below 30' I would agree that standpipes aren't required. The AHJ doesn't have to take anyone's word for it because these terms and requirements are clearly defined in the building code. Steve L. From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Taylor Schumacher Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2018 2:55 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Building Heights Requiring Standpipes I have an AHJ that is adamant that a 3-story 13R project I have requires Class I standpipes because the underground parking level will exceed the 30' height requirement. I have always viewed these heights as from the parking lot closest to main entry or where the FDC is located rather than the fire truck driving into the garage. Have I been looking at this wrong? Taylor Schumacher ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
RE: Building Heights Requiring Standpipes
Go to the Building Code for the definition of height above lowest level of FD Access, if ICC's IBC then call for a code interpretation and if needed ask for a written response. The ICC has been through this problem a few times. Some jurisdictions specifically define the height above the lowest level of FD access. Have a fire safe day! Jim Davidson From: Sprinklerforum On Behalf Of Taylor Schumacher Sent: Wednesday, August 8, 2018 5:55 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Building Heights Requiring Standpipes I have an AHJ that is adamant that a 3-story 13R project I have requires Class I standpipes because the underground parking level will exceed the 30' height requirement. I have always viewed these heights as from the parking lot closest to main entry or where the FDC is located rather than the fire truck driving into the garage. Have I been looking at this wrong? Taylor Schumacher ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
Building Heights Requiring Standpipes
I have an AHJ that is adamant that a 3-story 13R project I have requires Class I standpipes because the underground parking level will exceed the 30' height requirement. I have always viewed these heights as from the parking lot closest to main entry or where the FDC is located rather than the fire truck driving into the garage. Have I been looking at this wrong? Taylor Schumacher ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
