Re: [sqlite] Encrypted database

2014-12-16 Thread Ulrich Telle

Am 16.12.2014 17:44, schrieb Keith Medcalf:



Most freely available encryption extensions use a hard coded encryption
method. This is true for System.Data.SQLite (128 bit RSA), SQLCipher
(256 bit AES), and wxSQLite3 (128 or 256 bit AES, decided at compile
time) to name a few. The official commercial SQLite Encryption Extension
(SEE) allows to select an encryption method at runtime, this is done by
using a method prefix in the encryption key passed to function
sqlite3_key.


RSA?  As in Rivest-Shamir-Adleman?  I have seen this on the list multiple times 
now and I doubt very much that RSA is used.  It must be slower than molasses 
running uphill in Siberia in January ... which is why RSA is never used for 
data encryption.  Encryption of the symmetric key maybe, but of the data?  And 
128-bit RSA has a security lifetime of about 38 seconds, so it is little better 
than XOR obfuscation.

Are you sure you do not mean RC4 or RC5?


You are right: the encryption algorithm used by System.Data.SQLite is RC4.

I mixed it up with the PROV_RSA_FULL provider type used in acquiring the 
crypting context. Sorry for any confusion this caused.


Regards,

Ulrich


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Re: [sqlite] Encrypted database

2014-12-16 Thread Keith Medcalf

>Most freely available encryption extensions use a hard coded encryption
>method. This is true for System.Data.SQLite (128 bit RSA), SQLCipher
>(256 bit AES), and wxSQLite3 (128 or 256 bit AES, decided at compile
>time) to name a few. The official commercial SQLite Encryption Extension
>(SEE) allows to select an encryption method at runtime, this is done by
>using a method prefix in the encryption key passed to function
>sqlite3_key.

RSA?  As in Rivest-Shamir-Adleman?  I have seen this on the list multiple times 
now and I doubt very much that RSA is used.  It must be slower than molasses 
running uphill in Siberia in January ... which is why RSA is never used for 
data encryption.  Encryption of the symmetric key maybe, but of the data?  And 
128-bit RSA has a security lifetime of about 38 seconds, so it is little better 
than XOR obfuscation.

Are you sure you do not mean RC4 or RC5?

---
Theory is when you know everything but nothing works.  Practice is when 
everything works but no one knows why.  Sometimes theory and practice are 
combined:  nothing works and no one knows why.




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Re: [sqlite] Encrypted database

2014-12-16 Thread Ulrich Telle

Am 16.12.2014 14:03, schrieb jus...@postgresql.org:

On 2014-12-16 11:42, Harmen de Jong - CoachR Group B.V. wrote:

We use Navicat for SQLite and simply replaced the sqlite.dll file
with our own compiled SQLite dll version that has the proper
encryption included. Maybe this will work for you too and allows you
to use a management tool that is quite feature rich. Maybe this
approach will work for other management tools too.


H... trying to visualise how that works... :)

How do you specify encryption options (eg password, key size, etc),
if the application itself doesn't know to pop open a dialog asking
for them?

Guessing you hard coded the options into the SQLite dll file you
compiled?


The official SQLite version contains stubs for encryption support, 
namely functions sqlite3_key & sqlite3_rekey resp. sqlite3_key_v2 & 
sqlite3_rekey_v2. These functions are used to establish encryption for a 
database (sqlite3_key) or to change the encryption key for a database 
(sqlite3_rekey).


Most management tools supporting encryption use this "official" 
encryption API. If the management tool uses this API and a SQLite DLL to 
connect to an encrypted SQLite database, then the DLL could be exchanged 
for one supporting the required encryption method.


Most freely available encryption extensions use a hard coded encryption 
method. This is true for System.Data.SQLite (128 bit RSA), SQLCipher 
(256 bit AES), and wxSQLite3 (128 or 256 bit AES, decided at compile 
time) to name a few. The official commercial SQLite Encryption Extension 
(SEE) allows to select an encryption method at runtime, this is done by 
using a method prefix in the encryption key passed to function sqlite3_key.


Regards,

Ulrich


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Re: [sqlite] Encrypted database

2014-12-16 Thread justin

On 2014-12-16 11:42, Harmen de Jong - CoachR Group B.V. wrote:

We use Navicat for SQLite and simply replaced the sqlite.dll file
with our own compiled SQLite dll version that has the proper
encryption included. Maybe this will work for you too and allows you
to use a management tool that is quite feature rich. Maybe this
approach will work for other management tools too.


H... trying to visualise how that works... :)

How do you specify encryption options (eg password, key size, etc),
if the application itself doesn't know to pop open a dialog asking
for them?

Guessing you hard coded the options into the SQLite dll file you
compiled?

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift
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Re: [sqlite] Encrypted database

2014-12-16 Thread Harmen de Jong - CoachR Group B . V .
We use Navicat for SQLite and simply replaced the sqlite.dll file with our own 
compiled SQLite dll version that has the proper encryption included. Maybe this 
will work for you too and allows you to use a management tool that is quite 
feature rich. Maybe this approach will work for other management tools too.

Best regards,

Harmen de Jong
CoachR Group B.V.


-Original Message-
From: sqlite-users-boun...@sqlite.org [mailto:sqlite-users-boun...@sqlite.org] 
On Behalf Of Brown, Matthew
Sent: maandag 15 december 2014 17:05
To: sqlite-users@sqlite.org
Subject: Re: [sqlite] Encrypted database

Of the various SQLite management tools available, I have encountered only one 
that supports the SQLite.Net encryption: SQLite2009 Pro 
(http://sqlite2009pro.azurewebsites.net/).
It's linked from the now obsolete CVSTrac tools page 
(https://www.sqlite.org/cvstrac/wiki?p=ManagementTools).

It's a bit light on useful features, and I ended up spending a couple of days 
building a Dev/QA tool specific to my project's needs and schema.

The following suggestion may or may not be appropriate to your situation - it 
works for mine in the development environment:
Make debug builds of your project produce and consume unprotected files. Then, 
outside of a production environment, you can use any tool you wish.
Matt Brown, Principal Software Engineer
Nuance Communications
1 Wayside Road, Burlington, MA  01803
Email: matthew.br...@nuance.com<mailto:matthew.br...@nuance.com>
Office: +1 (781) 565-5219

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Re: [sqlite] Encrypted database

2014-12-15 Thread justin

On 2014-12-15 13:17, Ulrich Telle wrote:

No, at least the *original* component System.Data.SQLite, available 
from


https://system.data.sqlite.org

uses its own encryption implementation based on a 128-bit RSA cipher
(using the Windows Crypto API), while SQLCipher uses a 256-bit AES
cipher (using the OpenSSL library). SQLCipher provides a .Net
interface (SQLCipher for ADO.NET), which is *based on
System.Data.SQLite*, that is, the SQLCipher guys used the .Net 
wrapper

part of System.Data.SQLite, but replaced the internal implementation
of the encryption algorithm by their own implementation.

The page

https://www.zetetic.net/sqlcipher/sqlcipher-ado/

explains how to use SQLCipherfor ADO.Net together with Visual Studio.

Unfortunately the various encryption extensions for SQLite are not
compatible, so the developer has to take care that the development
environment and the database management tools intended to be used
support the same encryption extension.


Ahhh, thanks Ulrich, that's really good info. :)

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift
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Re: [sqlite] Encrypted database

2014-12-15 Thread Brown, Matthew
Of the various SQLite management tools available, I have encountered only one 
that supports the SQLite.Net encryption: SQLite2009 Pro 
(http://sqlite2009pro.azurewebsites.net/).
It's linked from the now obsolete CVSTrac tools page 
(https://www.sqlite.org/cvstrac/wiki?p=ManagementTools).

It's a bit light on useful features, and I ended up spending a couple of days 
building a Dev/QA tool specific to my project's needs and schema.

The following suggestion may or may not be appropriate to your situation - it 
works for mine in the development environment:
Make debug builds of your project produce and consume unprotected files. Then, 
outside of a production environment, you can use any tool you wish.
Matt Brown, Principal Software Engineer
Nuance Communications
1 Wayside Road, Burlington, MA  01803
Email: matthew.br...@nuance.com
Office: +1 (781) 565-5219

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Re: [sqlite] Encrypted database

2014-12-15 Thread Ulrich Telle

Am 15.12.2014 11:37, schrieb jus...@postgresql.org:

On 2014-12-13 19:29, Mujtaba Ali Panjwani wrote:

I have created an encrypted database using visual studio plugin of
system.data.sqlite. Now whichever other database management software than
VS, I try to open that database is failing. Can any of you please help me
with issue. I suspect this is some sort of encryption algorithm support
problem but I don't know how to resolve the issue.


We have a similar open issue with DB Browser for SQLite:

   https://github.com/sqlitebrowser/sqlitebrowser/issues/155

Apparently (from that issue), the encryption algorithm used by
System.Data.SQLite is SQLCipher:

   https://www.zetetic.net/sqlcipher/


No, at least the *original* component System.Data.SQLite, available from

https://system.data.sqlite.org

uses its own encryption implementation based on a 128-bit RSA cipher 
(using the Windows Crypto API), while SQLCipher uses a 256-bit AES 
cipher (using the OpenSSL library). SQLCipher provides a .Net interface 
(SQLCipher for ADO.NET), which is *based on System.Data.SQLite*, that 
is, the SQLCipher guys used the .Net wrapper part of System.Data.SQLite, 
but replaced the internal implementation of the encryption algorithm by 
their own implementation.


The page

https://www.zetetic.net/sqlcipher/sqlcipher-ado/

explains how to use SQLCipherfor ADO.Net together with Visual Studio.

Unfortunately the various encryption extensions for SQLite are not 
compatible, so the developer has to take care that the development 
environment and the database management tools intended to be used 
support the same encryption extension.


Regards,

Ulrich


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Re: [sqlite] Encrypted database

2014-12-15 Thread Mujtaba Ali Panjwani
Thanks for the reply. Yes, I have access to those systems but I am not much
acquainted with those systems so I wont have any use for it. Anyways thanks.

Regards,

Mujtaba Panjwani

-Original Message-
From: sqlite-users-boun...@sqlite.org
[mailto:sqlite-users-boun...@sqlite.org] On Behalf Of jus...@postgresql.org
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 3:37 PM
To: sqlite-users@sqlite.org
Subject: Re: [sqlite] Encrypted database

On 2014-12-13 19:29, Mujtaba Ali Panjwani wrote:
> I have created an encrypted database using visual studio plugin of 
> system.data.sqlite. Now whichever other database management software 
> than VS, I try to open that database is failing. Can any of you please 
> help me with issue. I suspect this is some sort of encryption 
> algorithm support problem but I don't know how to resolve the issue.

We have a similar open issue with DB Browser for SQLite:

   https://github.com/sqlitebrowser/sqlitebrowser/issues/155

Apparently (from that issue), the encryption algorithm used by
System.Data.SQLite is SQLCipher:

   https://www.zetetic.net/sqlcipher/

Our nightly builds for MacOS X support that, as does compiling DB Browser
for SQLite yourself on *nix using our latest development code.  But, we
don't support SQLCipher encryption in our Windows builds (yet).

Do you have access to a MacOS X, Linux, or BSD desktop you could try with?

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift
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Re: [sqlite] Encrypted database

2014-12-15 Thread justin

On 2014-12-13 19:29, Mujtaba Ali Panjwani wrote:

I have created an encrypted database using visual studio plugin of
system.data.sqlite. Now whichever other database management software 
than
VS, I try to open that database is failing. Can any of you please 
help me
with issue. I suspect this is some sort of encryption algorithm 
support

problem but I don't know how to resolve the issue.


We have a similar open issue with DB Browser for SQLite:

  https://github.com/sqlitebrowser/sqlitebrowser/issues/155

Apparently (from that issue), the encryption algorithm used by
System.Data.SQLite is SQLCipher:

  https://www.zetetic.net/sqlcipher/

Our nightly builds for MacOS X support that, as does compiling DB 
Browser

for SQLite yourself on *nix using our latest development code.  But, we
don't support SQLCipher encryption in our Windows builds (yet).

Do you have access to a MacOS X, Linux, or BSD desktop you could try
with?

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift
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Re: [sqlite] Encrypted database

2014-12-14 Thread Mujtaba Ali Panjwani
Thanks for the reply. It seems that for now I will have to change the password 
of the database to nothing and then use it with any other application and then 
re-encrypt it later when I am finished with it.

Thanks to all of you for helping me out.

Regards,

Mujtaba Panjwani

-Original Message-
From: sqlite-users-boun...@sqlite.org [mailto:sqlite-users-boun...@sqlite.org] 
On Behalf Of Scott Robison
Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2014 4:56 PM
To: General Discussion of SQLite Database
Subject: Re: [sqlite] Encrypted database

Apologies for the noise from the empty reply. They shouldn't put "send" & 
"expand quote" buttons so close together.

On Sun, Dec 14, 2014 at 4:40 AM, Mujtaba Ali Panjwani <mapanjw...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Well, I have tried various applications like Navicat premium, SQlite 
> sorcerer, sqlite manager and a lot others whose names I don’t remember 
> right now. Currently only sqlite sorcerer seems to be getting to some 
> point but when I provide incorrect password, it says that it is wrong 
> password but when correct password is supplied then it just does 
> nothing and stays still.
>

I've read on the list before that the encryption functionality built into the 
system.data.sqlite library is specific to system.data.sqlite. While that 
library is supported via this mailing list, most tools that can read SQLite 
databases are not written using system.data.sqlite, so they do not have access 
to that specific encryption functionality. While it certainly would be possible 
for someone to port it to C (or to write a database browsing tool with C# or 
other .NET language), it has not been done as far as I know.

There are multiple incompatible encryption extensions that have been written 
for SQLite by third parties (including the one in system.data.sqlite, which I 
believe predates its inclusion as a subproject of SQLite). There is also one 
that is offered by the project lead as an extra add-on (not public domain). 
Details are available at http://www.hwaci.com/sw/sqlite/cerod.html though I 
doubt it would help you in this specific case.

SDR
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Re: [sqlite] Encrypted database

2014-12-14 Thread Scott Robison
Apologies for the noise from the empty reply. They shouldn't put "send" &
"expand quote" buttons so close together.

On Sun, Dec 14, 2014 at 4:40 AM, Mujtaba Ali Panjwani 
wrote:

> Well, I have tried various applications like Navicat premium, SQlite
> sorcerer, sqlite manager and a lot others whose names I don’t remember
> right now. Currently only sqlite sorcerer seems to be getting to some point
> but when I provide incorrect password, it says that it is wrong password
> but when correct password is supplied then it just does nothing and stays
> still.
>

I've read on the list before that the encryption functionality built into
the system.data.sqlite library is specific to system.data.sqlite. While
that library is supported via this mailing list, most tools that can read
SQLite databases are not written using system.data.sqlite, so they do not
have access to that specific encryption functionality. While it certainly
would be possible for someone to port it to C (or to write a database
browsing tool with C# or other .NET language), it has not been done as far
as I know.

There are multiple incompatible encryption extensions that have been
written for SQLite by third parties (including the one in
system.data.sqlite, which I believe predates its inclusion as a subproject
of SQLite). There is also one that is offered by the project lead as an
extra add-on (not public domain). Details are available at
http://www.hwaci.com/sw/sqlite/cerod.html though I doubt it would help you
in this specific case.

SDR
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Re: [sqlite] Encrypted database

2014-12-14 Thread Scott Robison
On Sun, Dec 14, 2014 at 4:40 AM, Mujtaba Ali Panjwani <mapanjw...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Well, I have tried various applications like Navicat premium, SQlite
> sorcerer, sqlite manager and a lot others whose names I don’t remember
> right now. Currently only sqlite sorcerer seems to be getting to some point
> but when I provide incorrect password, it says that it is wrong password
> but when correct password is supplied then it just does nothing and stays
> still.
>
> Regards,
>
> Mujtaba Panjwani
>
> -Original Message-
> From: sqlite-users-boun...@sqlite.org [mailto:
> sqlite-users-boun...@sqlite.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Benson
> Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2014 8:24 AM
> To: General Discussion of SQLite Database
> Subject: Re: [sqlite] Encrypted database
>
> On Sat, Dec 13, 2014 at 9:08 PM, Igor Tandetnik <i...@tandetnik.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > On 12/13/2014 2:29 PM, Mujtaba Ali Panjwani wrote:
> >
> >> I have created an encrypted database using visual studio plugin of
> >> system.data.sqlite. Now whichever other database management software
> >> than VS, I try to open that database is failing.
> >>
> >
> > Isn't that the whole point? You've encrypted the database precisely so
> > that it can't be opened by other tools, only by your application,
> > haven't you? If not, what was the goal of the exercise?
> >
> > If you want the database to be accessible via any SQLite database
> > management tool, don't encrypt it.
> > --
> > Igor Tandetnik
> >
>
> -> OR ...seek tools that are compatible with the encryption used:
>
> On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Joe Mistachkin <sql...@mistachkin.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Krenn Christoph wrote:
> > >
> > > However I would like to know which encryption algorithm is used by
> > > System.Data.SQLite, v1.0.94.0?
> > >
> >
> > The legacy encryption support in System.Data.SQLite uses the CryptoAPI
> > with the constants PROV_RSA_FULL and MS_ENHANCED_PROV, as described
> > here:
> >
> >
> >
> > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa386986%28v=v
> > s.85%2
> > 9.aspx
> >
> > The exact algorithm and key strength selected probably depends on the
> > version of Windows being used.
> >
> > --
> > Joe Mistachkin
> >
>
> --
>--
>   --
>  --Ô¿Ô--
> K e V i N
> ___
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-- 
Scott Robison
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Re: [sqlite] Encrypted database

2014-12-14 Thread Mujtaba Ali Panjwani
Well, I have tried various applications like Navicat premium, SQlite sorcerer, 
sqlite manager and a lot others whose names I don’t remember right now. 
Currently only sqlite sorcerer seems to be getting to some point but when I 
provide incorrect password, it says that it is wrong password but when correct 
password is supplied then it just does nothing and stays still.

Regards,

Mujtaba Panjwani

-Original Message-
From: sqlite-users-boun...@sqlite.org [mailto:sqlite-users-boun...@sqlite.org] 
On Behalf Of Kevin Benson
Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2014 8:24 AM
To: General Discussion of SQLite Database
Subject: Re: [sqlite] Encrypted database

On Sat, Dec 13, 2014 at 9:08 PM, Igor Tandetnik <i...@tandetnik.org> wrote:
>
> On 12/13/2014 2:29 PM, Mujtaba Ali Panjwani wrote:
>
>> I have created an encrypted database using visual studio plugin of 
>> system.data.sqlite. Now whichever other database management software 
>> than VS, I try to open that database is failing.
>>
>
> Isn't that the whole point? You've encrypted the database precisely so 
> that it can't be opened by other tools, only by your application, 
> haven't you? If not, what was the goal of the exercise?
>
> If you want the database to be accessible via any SQLite database 
> management tool, don't encrypt it.
> --
> Igor Tandetnik
>

-> OR ...seek tools that are compatible with the encryption used:

On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Joe Mistachkin <sql...@mistachkin.com>
wrote:
>
>
> Krenn Christoph wrote:
> >
> > However I would like to know which encryption algorithm is used by 
> > System.Data.SQLite, v1.0.94.0?
> >
>
> The legacy encryption support in System.Data.SQLite uses the CryptoAPI 
> with the constants PROV_RSA_FULL and MS_ENHANCED_PROV, as described
> here:
>
>
>
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa386986%28v=v
> s.85%2
> 9.aspx
>
> The exact algorithm and key strength selected probably depends on the 
> version of Windows being used.
>
> --
> Joe Mistachkin
>

--
   --
  --
 --Ô¿Ô--
K e V i N
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Re: [sqlite] Encrypted database

2014-12-14 Thread Mujtaba Ali Panjwani
Thanks for the reply.

Well, the goal was to password protect it so that whoever wants to view the
contents should have the password. However the apps which supports
encryption are not able to open the database even if I am providing the
correct password. Any help will be appreciated.

Regards,

Mujtaba Panjwani

-Original Message-
From: sqlite-users-boun...@sqlite.org
[mailto:sqlite-users-boun...@sqlite.org] On Behalf Of Igor Tandetnik
Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2014 7:09 AM
To: sqlite-users@sqlite.org
Subject: Re: [sqlite] Encrypted database

On 12/13/2014 2:29 PM, Mujtaba Ali Panjwani wrote:
> I have created an encrypted database using visual studio plugin of 
> system.data.sqlite. Now whichever other database management software 
> than VS, I try to open that database is failing.

Isn't that the whole point? You've encrypted the database precisely so that
it can't be opened by other tools, only by your application, haven't you? If
not, what was the goal of the exercise?

If you want the database to be accessible via any SQLite database management
tool, don't encrypt it.
--
Igor Tandetnik

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Re: [sqlite] Encrypted database

2014-12-13 Thread Kevin Benson
On Sat, Dec 13, 2014 at 9:08 PM, Igor Tandetnik  wrote:
>
> On 12/13/2014 2:29 PM, Mujtaba Ali Panjwani wrote:
>
>> I have created an encrypted database using visual studio plugin of
>> system.data.sqlite. Now whichever other database management software than
>> VS, I try to open that database is failing.
>>
>
> Isn't that the whole point? You've encrypted the database precisely so
> that it can't be opened by other tools, only by your application, haven't
> you? If not, what was the goal of the exercise?
>
> If you want the database to be accessible via any SQLite database
> management tool, don't encrypt it.
> --
> Igor Tandetnik
>

-> OR ...seek tools that are compatible with the encryption used:

On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Joe Mistachkin 
wrote:
>
>
> Krenn Christoph wrote:
> >
> > However I would like to know which encryption algorithm is used by
> > System.Data.SQLite, v1.0.94.0?
> >
>
> The legacy encryption support in System.Data.SQLite uses the CryptoAPI
> with the constants PROV_RSA_FULL and MS_ENHANCED_PROV, as described
> here:
>
>
>
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa386986%28v=vs.85%2
> 9.aspx
>
> The exact algorithm and key strength selected probably depends on the
> version of Windows being used.
>
> --
> Joe Mistachkin
>

--
   --
  --
 --Ô¿Ô--
K e V i N
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Re: [sqlite] Encrypted database

2014-12-13 Thread Igor Tandetnik

On 12/13/2014 2:29 PM, Mujtaba Ali Panjwani wrote:

I have created an encrypted database using visual studio plugin of
system.data.sqlite. Now whichever other database management software than
VS, I try to open that database is failing.


Isn't that the whole point? You've encrypted the database precisely so 
that it can't be opened by other tools, only by your application, 
haven't you? If not, what was the goal of the exercise?


If you want the database to be accessible via any SQLite database 
management tool, don't encrypt it.

--
Igor Tandetnik

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