Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] Assign a player to a specific server

2018-12-19 Thread d6jg


DJanGo wrote: 
> @d6jg; dont mix Multicast with udp !
> since all stupid AllinoneIPdevices aka "router" uses native vlan [vlan
> 1] that "udp cut off" would never be possible even with seperate
> "routers"...
> And that is not the case.

I am not. 
AFAIK UDP packets are not sent outside of the local network as they are
blocked at the WAN port. Hence the 2 routers if connected correctly
would work.
Multicast is whole different question.



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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] Assign a player to a specific server

2018-12-19 Thread DJanGo


@d6jg; dont mix Multicast with udp !
since all stupid AllinoneIPdevices aka "router" uses native vlan [vlan
1] that "udp cut off" would never be possible even with seperate
"routers"...
And that is not the case.



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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] Assign a player to a specific server

2018-12-19 Thread d6jg

DJanGo wrote: 
> Vlans means you need a single switch (or more) where all cables are
> plugged into ths device but this device does "virtual" seperate some of
> these into one or another (or more) LANs.
> Thats one more step
> But if you use two different Networks like 10.0.0.0/25 (subnetmask
> 255.255.255.128) Broadcast: 10.0.0.127  and 10.0.0.128/25 (subnetmask
> 255.255.255.128) Broadcast: 10.0.0.255 its the same.
> Except with VLANS you really divide these networks there is no way to
> simply change Netmask and IP to get into the other Network.
> Thats all.

It’s LAN port based. Meaning if you plug in to a LAN port that is
allocated to VLAN1 then you are on that network. 
Hence the cable attached to that port has to be dedicated to that
network. 
Having different subnets without a VLAN will definitely leak UDP packets
across the 2 subnets.
Having a VLAN may stop the leakage but it equally it may not. It depends
upon the hardware vendor of the managed switch.
Without further knowledge of the network, the cabling structure and the
hardware in use it’s impossible to suggest any further options.



VB2.4[/B] STORAGE *QNAP TS419P (NFS)
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-> Onkyo CRN755 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
*Dining Room* -> SB Boom 
*Kitchen* -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] Assign a player to a specific server

2018-12-19 Thread bpa


baggins wrote: 
> Sorry to confuse you, I may have a wrong idea about VLANS...
> I thought that VLANS were something that could be implemented on managed
> switches regardless of the physical wiring.
AFAIK That is what VLANS should do but actual functionality can depend
on the router and network configuration (e.g. switches, extenders etc). 
I think the crucial area will be the servers and players interaction
with your ISP/WAN.



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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] Assign a player to a specific server

2018-12-19 Thread d6jg

I have to say I am confused

@baggins
You suggested you might use VLAN which requires segregated cabling yet
you then say that your cabling won’t support the 2 x Router idea?



VB2.4[/B] STORAGE *QNAP TS419P (NFS)
[B]Living Room* - Joggler & SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 -> Celestion F20s
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*Dining Room* -> SB Boom 
*Kitchen* -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] Assign a player to a specific server

2018-12-19 Thread bpa


baggins wrote: 
> Upon rebooting the lot, clearing all caches, disabling both UPnP
> plugins, now only client-B is visible in both the Default and Material
> skin!
no idea what this means.

> Unfortunately now there is a problem with Philippe's UPnP Plugin as it
> cannot generate a configuration file...
Philippe's plugins are based on squeezelite player code - so they may
need the broadcast UDP packet to work unless there is a command line
option/config file to indicate which server to use - a question for
Philippe.

I suspect the UDP blocking may not fully work for you and any other
solution seems to be too complex.



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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] Assign a player to a specific server

2018-12-19 Thread baggins


Hm, I was unaware that there were in fact two UPnP plugins of which one
is enabled by default.

Now, the machine on which run both virtual machines that I use, crashed.

Upon rebooting the lot, clearing all caches, disabling both UPnP
plugins, now only client-B is visible in both the Default and Material
skin!

Unfortunately now there is a problem with Philippe's UPnP Plugin as it
cannot generate a configuration file...



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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] Assign a player to a specific server

2018-12-19 Thread d6jg


bpa wrote: 
> Which UPNP plugin ?
> There are two plugin which deal with UPNP - Logitech's and Philppe's -
> are both disabled ?  After disable LMS will need to be restarted to take
> effect.

The Logitech one is actually listed as being Andy Grussman's



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*Kitchen* -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] Assign a player to a specific server

2018-12-19 Thread bpa


baggins wrote: 
> I'm running this on Fedora 28.
> 
> I cleared the cache and disabled the function of one LMS looking for
> others. Unfortunately no change in behaviour.
> The only thing that may be positive is the fact that with the Material
> skin, only the client that is setup to connect to LMS-B is indeed the
> only one visible...
> 
> There is probably still something else going on as well since I have
> just come to realise that two UPnP/DLNA clients on the network are also
> visible in the Default interface, even though I had not yet installed
> the UPnP plugin...
> 
> After noticing that, I did try to install the UPnP plugin but it cannot
> create it's configuration file!

Which UPNP plugin ?
There are two plugin which deal with UPNP - Logitech's and Philppe's -
are both disabled ?  After disable LMS will need to be restarted to take
effect.



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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] Assign a player to a specific server

2018-12-19 Thread d6jg


This is what I am suggesting

26297

It requires the cabling to LMS2 and Clients to be entirely separate from
network 1


+---+
|Filename: 2routerconfig.jpg|
|Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26297|
+---+


VB2.4[/B] STORAGE *QNAP TS419P (NFS)
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-> Onkyo CRN755 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
*Dining Room* -> SB Boom 
*Kitchen* -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
*Bedroom (Bedside)* - Pi2+DAC ->ToppingTP21 ->AKG Headphones
*Bedroom (TV)* - SB Touch ->Sherwood AVR ->Mordaunt Short M10s
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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] Assign a player to a specific server

2018-12-19 Thread bpa


baggins wrote: 
> Sorry for the silly question, but how do I clear the LMS cache? I looked
> at all tabs in Settings but could not find that...:o

Not sure what OS your LMS use.

If running Linux or OSX - then it is case of stopping LMS and deleting
the cache.* files in the LMS Cache directory (LMS WebUI
Settings/Information  shows cache directory)



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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] Assign a player to a specific server

2018-12-19 Thread baggins


bpa wrote: 
> Clearing LMS cache is probably more effective then browser cache as LMS
> knows what is happening on the net not the browser.  LMS probably caches
> knowledge of players.
> I expect for UDP block to be effective it has to be on both LMS as LMS
> can share info.
> 
> I can't answer all the question without running tests but clients (as
> opposed to players) can do special thing and make inquiries of LMS. 
> Different client can take a different approach to suit the style - I
> think Material initially started on phones/tablets so I believe Material
> does some special info gathering (e.g. to list albums) - it is not a
> simple reskin of WebUI.
> 
> There is a LMS function that clients can call which lets LMS list all
> the connected player. I don't know how how one LMS finds out about
> another LMS but there is a function to allow players transfer between
> LMSs.  If blocking UDP 3483 broadcast on LMS (and LMS caches have been
> cleared) for both LMS doesn't work - then the solution to your original
> request will probably be complicated.

Sorry for the silly question, but how do I clear the LMS cache? I looked
at all tabs in Settings but could not find that...:o



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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] Assign a player to a specific server

2018-12-19 Thread d6jg


baggins wrote: 
> I'm afraid having two routers with double NAT is not an option due to
> constraints from my ISP...
> 
> In the mean time I did the following test which leaves me somewhat
> confused:
> 
> I disabled port 3483 both tcp and udp on the second server that runs
> LMS-B and restarted LMS-B.
> 
> All but one of the clients have the -s option set to connect to server
> LMS-A. One client (client-B) has the -s option set to connect to LMS-B.
> 
> When accessing LMS-B from another machine using the Default web
> interface, all clients but the one client-B are visible.
> When accessing LMS-B from that same machine using the new Material skin,
> it hangs on "Looking for players".
> 
> Enabling port 3483 udp has no effect.
> Only after enabling 3483 tcp is client-B found on the 'Material'
> interface and client-B also shows up on the Default interface...

What constraints from your ISP stop you installing a second router
downstream from the first. They wouldn't even know ??



VB2.4[/B] STORAGE *QNAP TS419P (NFS)
[B]Living Room* - Joggler & SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 -> Celestion F20s
*Office* - Pi3+Sreen -> Sony TAFE320 -> Celestion F10s / Pi2+DAC & SB3
-> Onkyo CRN755 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
*Dining Room* -> SB Boom 
*Kitchen* -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
*Bedroom (Bedside)* - Pi2+DAC ->ToppingTP21 ->AKG Headphones
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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] Assign a player to a specific server

2018-12-19 Thread bpa


baggins wrote: 
> Thanks for the clarification.
> 
> I did another test as follows: 
> Disabled 3483 UDP on LMS-B, restarted LMS-B.
> Cleared browser cache.
> Accessed LMS-B with the Default interface: all players visible.
> Accessed LMS-B with the Material interface: only client-B visible.
> 
> How can it be that all clients that have been setup to connect to LMS-A
> still show up with the Default interface in LMS-B?
> Also: why is it that there is a different result with the Default or
> Material interface. I would have thought that a skin would make no
> difference on how clients connect to the server?
> :confused:
Clearing LMS cache is probably more effective then browser cache as LMS
knows what is happening on the net not the browser.  LMS probably caches
knowledge of players.
I expect for UDP block to be effective is has to be on both LMS as LMS
can share info.

I can't answer all the question without running tests but clients (as
opposed to players) can do special thing and make inquiries of LMS. 
Different client can take a different approach to suit the style - I
think Material initially started on phones/tablets so I believe Material
does some special info gathering (e.g. to list albums) - it is not a
simple reskin of WebUI.

There is a LMS function that clients can call which lets LMS list all
the connected player. I don't know how how one LMS finds out about
another LMS but there is a function to allow players transfer between
LMSs.  If blocking UDP 3483 broadcast on LMS (and LMS caches have been
cleared) for both LMS doesn't work - then the solution to your original
request will probably be complicated.



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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] Assign a player to a specific server

2018-12-19 Thread baggins


bpa wrote: 
> 3483 UDP is ONLY used for the broadcast packet at the start. So when it
> is blocked at LMS end - Players will not find LMS and LMS will not find
> players.
> 3483 TCP is essential for the communication it is used for slimproto
> between player and LMS.

Thanks for the clarification.

I did another test as follows: 
Disabled 3483 UDP on LMS-B, restarted LMS-B.
Cleared browser cache.
Accessed LMS-B with the Default interface: all players visible.
Accessed LMS-B with the Material interface: only client-B visible.

How can it be that all clients that have been setup to connect to LMS-A
still show up with the Default interface in LMS-B?
Also: why is it that there is a different result with the Default or
Material interface. I would have thought that a skin would make no
difference on how clients connect to the server?
:confused:



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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] Assign a player to a specific server

2018-12-19 Thread bpa


baggins wrote: 
> Enabling port 3483 udp has no effect.
> Only after enabling 3483 tcp is client-B found on the 'Material'
> interface and client-B also shows up on the Default interface...

3483 UDP is ONLY used for the broadcast packet at the start. So when it
is blocked at LMS end - Players will not find LMS and LMS will not find
players.
3483 TCP is essential for the communication it is used for slimproto
between player and LMS.



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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] Assign a player to a specific server

2018-12-19 Thread baggins


d6jg wrote: 
> VLANs may work but there are reports of UDP traffic jumping across them
> - I think it is hardware vendor specific as to whether it blocks or
> not.
> 
> However what should work would be segregated routers i.e. 
> 
> 1. Router 1 that connects to Internet and serves one part of your
> network topology on one subnet (network 1)
> 2. Router 2 that connects from its WAN side to Router 1 on a LAN port
> and serves the other portion of your network on an entirely different
> subnet (network 2)
> 
> Router 2 should automatically block UDP traffic leaving network 2 on its
> WAN side.
> 
> network 2 is then double NATd but for internet traffic there will be no
> issue.
> 
> Obviously whether or not you can do this depends a little on your
> cabling structure.

I'm afraid having two routers with double NAT is not an option due to
constraints from my ISP...

In the mean time I did the following test which leaves me somewhat
confused:

I disabled port 3483 both tcp and udp on the second server that runs
LMS-B and restarted LMS-B.

All but one of the clients have the -s option set to connect to server
LMS-A. One client (client-B) has the -s option set to connect to LMS-B.

When accessing LMS-B from another machine using the Default web
interface, all clients but the one client-B are visible.
When accessing LMS-B from that same machine using the new Material skin,
it hangs on "Looking for players".

Enabling port 3483 udp has no effect.
Only after enabling 3483 tcp is client-B found on the 'Material'
interface and client-B also shows up on the Default interface...



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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] Assign a player to a specific server

2018-12-19 Thread d6jg


baggins wrote: 
> Will give that a try tomorrow.

VLANs may work but there are reports of UDP traffic jumping across them
- I think it is hardware vendor specific as to whether it blocks or
not.

However what should work would be segregated routers i.e. 

1. Router 1 that connects to Internet and serves one part of your
network topology on one subnet (network 1)
2. Router 2 that connects from its WAN side to Router 1 on a LAN port
and serves the other portion of your network on an entirely different
subnet (network 2)

Router 2 should automatically block UDP traffic leaving network 2 on its
WAN side.

network 2 is then double NATd but for internet traffic there will be no
issue.

Obviously whether or not you can do this depends a little on your
cabling structure.



VB2.4[/B] STORAGE *QNAP TS419P (NFS)
[B]Living Room* - Joggler & SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 -> Celestion F20s
*Office* - Pi3+Sreen -> Sony TAFE320 -> Celestion F10s / Pi2+DAC & SB3
-> Onkyo CRN755 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
*Dining Room* -> SB Boom 
*Kitchen* -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
*Bedroom (Bedside)* - Pi2+DAC ->ToppingTP21 ->AKG Headphones
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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] Assign a player to a specific server

2018-12-18 Thread baggins


bpa wrote: 
> Does this still happen if you block UDP broadcast as that the broadcast
> is what informs the server what players exist on the LAN ?

Will give that a try tomorrow.



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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] Assign a player to a specific server

2018-12-18 Thread bpa


baggins wrote: 
> That is actually what I see on the second server: when I choose a player
> that is connected to the other one, there is a popup asking if I want to
> switch the player to the current one.
Does this still happen if you block UDP broadcast as that the broadcast
is what informs the server what players exist on the LAN ?



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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] Assign a player to a specific server

2018-12-18 Thread baggins


bpa wrote: 
> You could block servers receiving UDP Broadcast on port 3483.  It will
> stop the inital discovery and not affect playback once player know the
> IP address of the desired server.  However I think there may be
> additional message which enable transfer of players between servers so
> it may not be complete solution..

That is actually what I see on the second server: when I choose a player
that is connected to the other one, there is a popup asking if I want to
switch the player to the current one.

The reason why I am considering doing this is quite simple: my house is
divided in two "apartments". I live in one and one of my children lives
in the other. At this moment I can control their players and vice
versa.

I'm no network expert, but could I use VLANs to do this?



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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] Assign a player to a specific server

2018-12-18 Thread bpa


baggins wrote: 
> How can I make this work?
You could block servers receiving UDP Broadcast on port 3483.  It will
stop the inital discovery and not affect playback once player know the
IP address of the desired server.  However I think there may be
additional message which enable transfer of players between servers so
it may not be complete solution..



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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] Assign a player to a specific server

2018-12-18 Thread d6jg

DJanGo wrote: 
> i dont know the reason why you want to do this
> but if your using /25 subnet instead of /24 you only lost two ip
> Adresses and you end up in two networks with two seperate broadcast
> adresses.
I don’t think that will completely block the players from being visible.
I have another LMS at a remote location on a different subnet but there
is a site to site vpn. Although a player on subnet1 can’t see the LMS
and players on subnet2 iPeng can see everything. It depends on you
definition of “completely block” I suppose.



VB2.4[/B] STORAGE *QNAP TS419P (NFS)
[B]Living Room* - Joggler & SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 -> Celestion F20s
*Office* - Pi3+Sreen -> Sony TAFE320 -> Celestion F10s / Pi2+DAC & SB3
-> Onkyo CRN755 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
*Dining Room* -> SB Boom 
*Kitchen* -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
*Bedroom (Bedside)* - Pi2+DAC ->ToppingTP21 ->AKG Headphones
*Bedroom (TV)* - SB Touch ->Sherwood AVR ->Mordaunt Short M10s
Everything controlled by iPeng

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Re: [SlimDevices: SqueezeCenter] Assign a player to a specific server

2018-12-18 Thread DJanGo


i dont know the reason why you want to do this
but if your using /25 subnet instead of /24 you only lost two ip
Adresses and you end up in two networks with two seperate broadcast
adresses.



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