Re: Seamonkey release?

2016-10-24 Thread bwitzed 
On Thursday, September 8, 2016 at 7:31:32 PM UTC-7, Edmund Wong wrote:
> Stephan Thiele wrote:
> > Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I don't really understand why
> > there still is no Seamonkey update after the 2.40 release in March,
> > almost half a year ago.
> 
> No.  Not a stupid question at all.  In fact, it's a very good question.
> 
> > I am quite confused that there a nightlies with version numbers
> > increasing to 2.48 while there is not even a beta.
> 
> I wish there was an easy way of explaining this.  But, as Paul
> stated, we're just a bunch of volunteers trying hard to maintain
> our sanity with changes coming from Gecko's codebase and the
> infra that needs a lot more love.  So all in all, a pretty much
> mountain climb.
> 
> Excuses/reasons aside... I am really sorry for the lack of releases.
> 
> > Seamonkey is my default browser and mail and news program, so I don't
> 
> Ditto here.
> 
> 
> > like to take any risk of losing my data and mails by using a buggy
> > nightly. On the other hand, I see a lot of security updates of Firefox
> > and Thunderbird which have been published in the meantime and therefore
> > I'm concerned about unfixed vulnerabilities in Seamonkey.
> > 
> > Any hope?
> 
> Sure.  I'm (my opinion here.. doesn't reflect the opinion of the
> group) not sure if it will be 2.45  or even 2.46.   But we'll see.
> 
> "We shall see We shall see.."
> 
> Edmund

Hi.  I have installed 2.46 as I was told that it most stable.  The only problem 
is that the only language choice is German and I cannot understand the menus.  
Would someone please provide me with an exact link to an actual downloading 
file (and not just confusing list)to an english version of 2.46 or other stable 
version for Windows 10 x64?  

I am mostly happy with the performance of this version but would like be able 
to use the menus.
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Re: Seamonkey release?

2016-10-14 Thread sean . nathan 

WaltS48 wrote:

On 10/12/2016 01:38 AM, sean.nat...@invalid.knights.nee wrote:

Stephan Thiele wrote:

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I don't really understand why
there still is no Seamonkey update after the 2.40 release in March,
almost half a year ago.
I am quite confused that there a nightlies with version numbers
increasing to 2.48 while there is not even a beta.
Seamonkey is my default browser and mail and news program, so I don't
like to take any risk of losing my data and mails by using a buggy
nightly. On the other hand, I see a lot of security updates of Firefox
and Thunderbird which have been published in the meantime and therefore
I'm concerned about unfixed vulnerabilities in Seamonkey.

Any hope?


I'm a dedicated PeppermintOS Linux user... Anyone else find a newer
than 2.40 that works well on Linux Mint based distributions?

sean



There isn't any newer official release.



unofficial or nightlies are fine... i see folks mentioning newer build 
numbers...


just checking in...

sean
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Re: Seamonkey release?

2016-10-12 Thread WaltS48 

On 10/12/2016 01:38 AM, sean.nat...@invalid.knights.nee wrote:

Stephan Thiele wrote:

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I don't really understand why
there still is no Seamonkey update after the 2.40 release in March,
almost half a year ago.
I am quite confused that there a nightlies with version numbers
increasing to 2.48 while there is not even a beta.
Seamonkey is my default browser and mail and news program, so I don't
like to take any risk of losing my data and mails by using a buggy
nightly. On the other hand, I see a lot of security updates of Firefox
and Thunderbird which have been published in the meantime and therefore
I'm concerned about unfixed vulnerabilities in Seamonkey.

Any hope?


I'm a dedicated PeppermintOS Linux user... Anyone else find a newer than 
2.40 that works well on Linux Mint based distributions?


sean



There isn't any newer official release.

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Re: Seamonkey release?

2016-10-11 Thread sean . nathan 

Stephan Thiele wrote:

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I don't really understand why
there still is no Seamonkey update after the 2.40 release in March,
almost half a year ago.
I am quite confused that there a nightlies with version numbers
increasing to 2.48 while there is not even a beta.
Seamonkey is my default browser and mail and news program, so I don't
like to take any risk of losing my data and mails by using a buggy
nightly. On the other hand, I see a lot of security updates of Firefox
and Thunderbird which have been published in the meantime and therefore
I'm concerned about unfixed vulnerabilities in Seamonkey.

Any hope?


I'm a dedicated PeppermintOS Linux user... Anyone else find a newer than 
2.40 that works well on Linux Mint based distributions?


sean
--
tagzilla... such memories...



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Re: Seamonkey release?

2016-09-13 Thread TCW 
On Thu, 8 Sep 2016 20:18:59 +0200, Stephan Thiele
<100.59...@germanynet.de> wrote:

>Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I don't really understand why there 
>still is no Seamonkey update after the 2.40 release in March, almost half a 
>year ago.
>I am quite confused that there a nightlies with version numbers increasing 
>to 2.48 while there is not even a beta.
>Seamonkey is my default browser and mail and news program, so I don't like 
>to take any risk of losing my data and mails by using a buggy nightly. On 
>the other hand, I see a lot of security updates of Firefox and Thunderbird 
>which have been published in the meantime and therefore I'm concerned about 
>unfixed vulnerabilities in Seamonkey.
>
>Any hope?

The problem that caused them to stop being built on the main servers
is nearly fixed but stable builds are being hand-built by a Adrian
Kalla here: http://goo.gl/9R2c0i
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Re: Seamonkey release?

2016-09-12 Thread Stephan Thiele 

Hi, Edmund,

thanks a lot for your explanations. I think I understood it’s pretty much 
to do and it’s difficult enough to merely adapt the changes in basic 
codebase and infrastructure.
Thank you for all the work that you as volunteers put into the project, and 
hope on ..


Stephan


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Re: Seamonkey release?

2016-09-11 Thread NoOp 
On 9/9/2016 7:23 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
> Frank-Rainer Grahl composed on 2016-09-10 00:03 (UTC+0200):
> 
>> In the mean time if you need a new release grab 2.45 from Adrian if you
>> are on Windows or Linux. His releases are build from the original
>> sources and bug reports against them are accepted:
> 
> Last I tried a version newer than 2.42 I found it unusable due to several 
> GTK3-related bugs, the worst of which 1269145 is WONTFIX, while the others 
> remain open:
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1269274
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1269145
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1269149
> 
> :-(
> 

Seems we're still stuck with this issue that I posted about on the dev
list a year ago today:

Subject: 2.40a1 missing scrollbar indicator arrow buttons
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 17:59:39 -0700

If I want to make out which tabs I'm using etc., in 2.45/47 linux I end
up having to use clearlooks-phenix, which works, but definitely is not
my theme of choice. Pretty bad when you have to change an entire desktop
theme in order to be able to see/use scrollbars & tabs.


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Re: Seamonkey release?

2016-09-11 Thread Stanimir Stamenkov 

Sun, 11 Sep 2016 07:42:22 -0700 (PDT), 2beesquare:

On Thursday, September 8, 2016 at 11:19:07 AM UTC-7, Stephan Thiele wrote:

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I don't really understand why 
there still is no Seamonkey update after the 2.40 release in March, 
almost half a year ago.

[...]


I have the same concern I am using Seamonkey on osx


On Mac I'm using latest 2.45 builds from:

http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/seamonkey/tinderbox-builds/comm-release-macosx64/

and I'm pretty satisfied.

--
Stanimir
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Re: Seamonkey release?

2016-09-11 Thread 2beesquare 
On Thursday, September 8, 2016 at 11:19:07 AM UTC-7, Stephan Thiele wrote:
> Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I don't really understand why there 
> still is no Seamonkey update after the 2.40 release in March, almost half a 
> year ago.
> I am quite confused that there a nightlies with version numbers increasing 
> to 2.48 while there is not even a beta.
> Seamonkey is my default browser and mail and news program, so I don't like 
> to take any risk of losing my data and mails by using a buggy nightly. On 
> the other hand, I see a lot of security updates of Firefox and Thunderbird 
> which have been published in the meantime and therefore I'm concerned about 
> unfixed vulnerabilities in Seamonkey.
> 
> Any hope?

I have the same concern I am using Seamonkey on osx
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Re: Seamonkey release?

2016-09-11 Thread Frank-Rainer Grahl 
Jupp at best gtk2 is a short time solution but I would still base the next 1-2 
releases on it. I didn't follow gtk bugs but 3.21 als was a can of worms a few 
months ago. 3.22 is supposed to be out soon so this would need to work.


On Sat, 10 Sep 2016 23:45:14 +0200, Adrian Kalla wrote:

>>W dniu 09/10/2016 o 05:46 PM,  »Q « pisze:
 Agreed but gtk3 itself is a pile of and at some point sticking to
 gtk2 will no longer work ... I use Linux only occasionally but I am
 quite sure this is/will become a problem for Firefox too. 2.45 was
 supposed to use gtk2. I will ask in the next status meeting if we
 should switch at least aurora, beta and release to gtk2 until the
 problems are solved.
>>> 
>>> It definitely is a problem for Firefox.  AIUI, Mozilla have deprecated
>>> building Firefox using gtk2, but haven't said anything about the time
>>> frame for fully dropping support for building that way.  If you find
>>> out anything from them about this, please post back.
>>> 
>>
>>It will likely be as always: GTK2-bugs won't be fixed anymore and with
>>time GTK2-Firefox/Thunderbird/SeaMonkey will not work properly or even
>>not build. It will just happen. And some time after that, the build
>>switch for GTK2 will be removed.
>>
>>GTK2 is a dead horse. GTK2 with Gecko is even more dead. I wouldn't
>>waste any time to let it keep breathing. Just choose a decent GTK3-theme
>>and all your problems will vanish.


 Regards
 Frank-Rainer Grahl


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Re: Seamonkey release?

2016-09-10 Thread Felix Miata 

Adrian Kalla composed on 2016-09-10 23:45 (UTC+0200):


GTK2 is a dead horse. GTK2 with Gecko is even more dead. I wouldn't
waste any time to let it keep breathing. Just choose a decent GTK3-theme
and all your problems will vanish.


I never needed any theme but Modern with GTK1 or GTK2. Why should GTK3 stop 
Modern from working as well as it has with those?


https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=757142 being wontfixed is 
downright rude, anti-A11Y/U7Y, illegitimately conceived.

--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

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Re: Seamonkey release?

2016-09-10 Thread Adrian Kalla 
W dniu 09/10/2016 o 05:46 PM, »Q« pisze:
>> Agreed but gtk3 itself is a pile of and at some point sticking to
>> gtk2 will no longer work ... I use Linux only occasionally but I am
>> quite sure this is/will become a problem for Firefox too. 2.45 was
>> supposed to use gtk2. I will ask in the next status meeting if we
>> should switch at least aurora, beta and release to gtk2 until the
>> problems are solved.
> 
> It definitely is a problem for Firefox.  AIUI, Mozilla have deprecated
> building Firefox using gtk2, but haven't said anything about the time
> frame for fully dropping support for building that way.  If you find
> out anything from them about this, please post back.
> 

It will likely be as always: GTK2-bugs won't be fixed anymore and with
time GTK2-Firefox/Thunderbird/SeaMonkey will not work properly or even
not build. It will just happen. And some time after that, the build
switch for GTK2 will be removed.

GTK2 is a dead horse. GTK2 with Gecko is even more dead. I wouldn't
waste any time to let it keep breathing. Just choose a decent GTK3-theme
and all your problems will vanish.
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Re: Seamonkey release?

2016-09-10 Thread »Q« 
In ,
Frank-Rainer Grahl  wrote:

> Felix Miata wrote:
> > Frank-Rainer Grahl composed on 2016-09-10 00:03 (UTC+0200):
> >  
> >> In the mean time if you need a new release grab 2.45 from Adrian
> >> if you are on Windows or Linux. His releases are build from the
> >> original sources and bug reports against them are accepted:  
> >
> > Last I tried a version newer than 2.42 I found it unusable due to
> > several GTK3-related bugs, the worst of which 1269145 is WONTFIX,
> > while the others remain open:
> > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1269274
> > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1269145
> > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1269149
> >
> > :-(  
> 
> Agreed but gtk3 itself is a pile of and at some point sticking to
> gtk2 will no longer work ... I use Linux only occasionally but I am
> quite sure this is/will become a problem for Firefox too. 2.45 was
> supposed to use gtk2. I will ask in the next status meeting if we
> should switch at least aurora, beta and release to gtk2 until the
> problems are solved.

It definitely is a problem for Firefox.  AIUI, Mozilla have deprecated
building Firefox using gtk2, but haven't said anything about the time
frame for fully dropping support for building that way.  If you find
out anything from them about this, please post back.
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Re: Seamonkey release?

2016-09-10 Thread Frank-Rainer Grahl 

WaltS48 wrote:


Agreed but gtk3 itself is a pile of and at some point sticking to gtk2
will no longer work ... I use Linux only occasionally but I am quite
sure this is/will become a problem for Firefox too. 2.45 was supposed
to use gtk2. I will ask in the next status meeting if we should switch
at least aurora, beta and release to gtk2 until the problems are solved.



It is a problem for Firefox and Thunderbird on Linux.




Yes but we had/have similar reports and I had trouble myself with gtk3 
on CentOS 7.2 using KDE and oxygen-gtk3: 
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1268185


The bug is marked fixed but even after using yum update no new 
oxygen-gtk3 got installed. Firefox and Seamonkey did just crash when 
started with this theme.


FRG
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Re: Seamonkey release?

2016-09-10 Thread WaltS48 

On 09/10/2016 04:16 AM, Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:

Felix Miata wrote:

Frank-Rainer Grahl composed on 2016-09-10 00:03 (UTC+0200):


In the mean time if you need a new release grab 2.45 from Adrian if you
are on Windows or Linux. His releases are build from the original
sources and bug reports against them are accepted:


Last I tried a version newer than 2.42 I found it unusable due to
several GTK3-related bugs, the worst of which 1269145 is WONTFIX, while
the others remain open:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1269274
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1269145
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1269149

:-(


Agreed but gtk3 itself is a pile of and at some point sticking to gtk2 
will no longer work ... I use Linux only occasionally but I am quite 
sure this is/will become a problem for Firefox too. 2.45 was supposed 
to use gtk2. I will ask in the next status meeting if we should switch 
at least aurora, beta and release to gtk2 until the problems are solved.



It is a problem for Firefox and Thunderbird on Linux.


--
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Ubuntu 16.04.1 LTS

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Re: Seamonkey release?

2016-09-10 Thread Frank-Rainer Grahl 

Felix Miata wrote:

Frank-Rainer Grahl composed on 2016-09-10 00:03 (UTC+0200):


In the mean time if you need a new release grab 2.45 from Adrian if you
are on Windows or Linux. His releases are build from the original
sources and bug reports against them are accepted:


Last I tried a version newer than 2.42 I found it unusable due to
several GTK3-related bugs, the worst of which 1269145 is WONTFIX, while
the others remain open:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1269274
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1269145
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1269149

:-(


Agreed but gtk3 itself is a pile of and at some point sticking to gtk2 
will no longer work ... I use Linux only occasionally but I am quite 
sure this is/will become a problem for Firefox too. 2.45 was supposed to 
use gtk2. I will ask in the next status meeting if we should switch at 
least aurora, beta and release to gtk2 until the problems are solved.

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Re: Seamonkey release?

2016-09-10 Thread Frank-Rainer Grahl 

Ray_Net wrote:

Therefore the guy who say that WebMasters should sniff Gecko instead of
other part of the Use Agent string are WRONG ! :-)


No it just means that building Seamonkey is not possible for a time 
until the incompatibility is fixed. This is usually the case when you 
don't see any Nightly builds for a few days.


FRG
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Re: Seamonkey release?

2016-09-09 Thread Felix Miata 

Frank-Rainer Grahl composed on 2016-09-10 00:03 (UTC+0200):


In the mean time if you need a new release grab 2.45 from Adrian if you
are on Windows or Linux. His releases are build from the original
sources and bug reports against them are accepted:


Last I tried a version newer than 2.42 I found it unusable due to several 
GTK3-related bugs, the worst of which 1269145 is WONTFIX, while the others 
remain open:

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1269274
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1269145
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1269149

:-(
--
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Re: Seamonkey release?

2016-09-09 Thread Ed 
On 09/09/16 6:03 PM, Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:
> Felix Miata wrote:
>> WaltS48 composed on 2016-09-09 09:22 (UTC-0400):
>>
>>> I think the SeaMonkey developers should base the next version on Gecko
>>> 45 ESR (which would have been SM 2.42), call it SM 2.45 and bring it up
>>> to date with the Firefox ESR security and stability releases. I think
>>> that would make it currently SM 2.45.3.0.
>>
>> Notwithstanding SM's limited resource pool, I don't get why a similar
>> proposal wasn't taken to heart long long ago.
>
> Because its no good. The codebase currently isn't the problem. There are a few
> minor problems in the tree caused by Mozilla changes like unable to set a
> default search provider. But these all have workarounds. The real problem is
> with building and distributing an update thru official mozilla servers. If
> this would work for ESR it would also work for 2.45 or 2.46 next week. Ewong
> is on it but it might be some time till we see a release.
>
> In the mean time if you need a new release grab 2.45 from Adrian if you are on
> Windows or Linux. His releases are build from the original sources and bug
> reports against them are accepted:
>
> https://l10n.mozilla-community.org/~akalla/unofficial/seamonkey/nightly/
>
> 2.47a2 is also stable at the moment but I would recommend 2.45 or 2.46. Make
> sure you use a build after 09/02 because I goofed and earlier ones didn't
> always show the favicon correctly (ok minor problem you might not even
> notice...).
>
> FRG
I've been using 2.47a2 for about a week and have, so far, not noticed any
problems in my usage. ☺

-- 
Ed,

"People that hate cats will come back as mice in the next life."   -Faith 
Resnick
  


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Re: Seamonkey release?

2016-09-09 Thread Ray_Net 

Paul Bergsagel wrote on 09/09/2016 02:43:
 Some of the changes to Gecko are not compatible with Seamonkey. Our 
Seamonkey programmers do amazing work adapting/reverting Gecko changes 
made by FireFox programmers so that Seamonky and NOT some offshoot 
clone of Firefox.I praise the SeaMonkey programmers for their tireless 
work maintaining and keeping SeaMonkey as Seamonkey and not some 
offshoot or clone of FireFox.



Therefore the guy who say that WebMasters should sniff Gecko instead of 
other part of the Use Agent string are WRONG ! :-)

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Re: Seamonkey release?

2016-09-09 Thread Frank-Rainer Grahl 

Felix Miata wrote:

WaltS48 composed on 2016-09-09 09:22 (UTC-0400):


I think the SeaMonkey developers should base the next version on Gecko
45 ESR (which would have been SM 2.42), call it SM 2.45 and bring it up
to date with the Firefox ESR security and stability releases. I think
that would make it currently SM 2.45.3.0.


Notwithstanding SM's limited resource pool, I don't get why a similar
proposal wasn't taken to heart long long ago.


Because its no good. The codebase currently isn't the problem. There are 
a few minor problems in the tree caused by Mozilla changes like unable 
to set a default search provider. But these all have workarounds. The 
real problem is with building and distributing an update thru official 
mozilla servers. If this would work for ESR it would also work for 2.45 
or 2.46 next week. Ewong is on it but it might be some time till we see 
a release.


In the mean time if you need a new release grab 2.45 from Adrian if you 
are on Windows or Linux. His releases are build from the original 
sources and bug reports against them are accepted:


https://l10n.mozilla-community.org/~akalla/unofficial/seamonkey/nightly/

2.47a2 is also stable at the moment but I would recommend 2.45 or 2.46. 
Make sure you use a build after 09/02 because I goofed and earlier ones 
didn't always show the favicon correctly (ok minor problem you might not 
even notice...).


FRG
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Re: Seamonkey release?

2016-09-09 Thread EE 

Edmund Wong wrote:

Stephan Thiele wrote:

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I don't really understand why
there still is no Seamonkey update after the 2.40 release in March,
almost half a year ago.


No.  Not a stupid question at all.  In fact, it's a very good question.


I am quite confused that there a nightlies with version numbers
increasing to 2.48 while there is not even a beta.


I wish there was an easy way of explaining this.  But, as Paul
stated, we're just a bunch of volunteers trying hard to maintain
our sanity with changes coming from Gecko's codebase and the
infra that needs a lot more love.  So all in all, a pretty much
mountain climb.

Excuses/reasons aside... I am really sorry for the lack of releases.


Seamonkey is my default browser and mail and news program, so I don't


Ditto here.



like to take any risk of losing my data and mails by using a buggy
nightly. On the other hand, I see a lot of security updates of Firefox
and Thunderbird which have been published in the meantime and therefore
I'm concerned about unfixed vulnerabilities in Seamonkey.

Any hope?


Sure.  I'm (my opinion here.. doesn't reflect the opinion of the
group) not sure if it will be 2.45  or even 2.46.   But we'll see.

"We shall see We shall see.."

Edmund

I am using 2.45 now.  It works better than 2.40.  There have been some 
bug fixes.  I got the Tinderbox build.


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Re: Seamonkey release?

2016-09-09 Thread Felix Miata 

WaltS48 composed on 2016-09-09 09:22 (UTC-0400):


I think the SeaMonkey developers should base the next version on Gecko
45 ESR (which would have been SM 2.42), call it SM 2.45 and bring it up
to date with the Firefox ESR security and stability releases. I think
that would make it currently SM 2.45.3.0.


Notwithstanding SM's limited resource pool, I don't get why a similar 
proposal wasn't taken to heart long long ago.

--
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words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

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Re: Seamonkey release?

2016-09-09 Thread WaltS48 

On 09/09/2016 03:01 AM, Edmund Wong wrote:

Edmund,

A good explanation.

So, here's my question: Are there any Gecko alternatives out there that
aren't changing at a such a furious rate? Something to give us a
reasonable (and safe) SM but perhaps with a more consistent internal
interface that would be simpler to integrate with past versions?

There are a few Gecko alternatives out there (Blink, Webkit, just to
name two that I've heard of..  then we come to the murky-i-don't-know
territory that is Trident et. al).  However, changing our interfaces
from Gecko to use anything else is just as difficult to do (and dare
I say, impossible given our resources (or lack thereof)).

And anyway, in this day and age,  we live in an ever-changing
environment and thusly the backend would tend to change accordingly.
(There is a reason for it being called 'rapid release').



Because I don't like the impression I'm getting that the slope is rising
and that the trend is not in our favor!

The slope has ALWAYS been rising and until we find more resources to
flatten this slope by brute force *grin*, it's gonna be that way.

"not as much as a slope..  it's more close to a cliff than a slope."
:) (not really funny considering our predicament, but life's short..
gotta laugh at the steep/vertical slopes.. :D)  [kinda taken
from "Bottoms" quote : "Steep?  It's Effing Vertical!"]



Edmund



I think the SeaMonkey developers should base the next version on Gecko 
45 ESR (which would have been SM 2.42), call it SM 2.45 and bring it up 
to date with the Firefox ESR security and stability releases. I think 
that would make it currently SM 2.45.3.0.


This appears to work for Thunderbird, currently version 45.3.0, which 
was recently released 28 days after Firefox 45.3.0.


There are still five more updates for the Firefox ESR until the next one 
(52.0) is due, which becomes Nightly in two weeks now that Firefox 49.0 
is delayed a week.



--
Visit Pittsburgh 
Ubuntu 16.04.1 LTS

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Re: Seamonkey release?

2016-09-09 Thread cmcadams 

Edmund Wong wrote:


Edmund,

A good explanation.

So, here's my question: Are there any Gecko alternatives out there that
aren't changing at a such a furious rate? Something to give us a
reasonable (and safe) SM but perhaps with a more consistent internal
interface that would be simpler to integrate with past versions?


There are a few Gecko alternatives out there (Blink, Webkit, just to
name two that I've heard of..  then we come to the murky-i-don't-know
territory that is Trident et. al).  However, changing our interfaces
from Gecko to use anything else is just as difficult to do (and dare
I say, impossible given our resources (or lack thereof)).

And anyway, in this day and age,  we live in an ever-changing
environment and thusly the backend would tend to change accordingly.
(There is a reason for it being called 'rapid release').



Because I don't like the impression I'm getting that the slope is rising
and that the trend is not in our favor!


The slope has ALWAYS been rising and until we find more resources to
flatten this slope by brute force *grin*, it's gonna be that way.

"not as much as a slope..  it's more close to a cliff than a slope."
:) (not really funny considering our predicament, but life's short..
gotta laugh at the steep/vertical slopes.. :D)  [kinda taken
from "Bottoms" quote : "Steep?  It's Effing Vertical!"]



Edmund



Okay, understood. Significant changes would likely mean a new project, with for-real 
funding. Easy enough if you're a Google, I suppose, so it's really too bad I don't 
care much for what they do. :P


Your work really is appreciated (speaketh the voice of frustration :).

Craig
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Re: Seamonkey release?

2016-09-09 Thread Edmund Wong 
> 
> Edmund,
> 
> A good explanation.
> 
> So, here's my question: Are there any Gecko alternatives out there that
> aren't changing at a such a furious rate? Something to give us a
> reasonable (and safe) SM but perhaps with a more consistent internal
> interface that would be simpler to integrate with past versions?

There are a few Gecko alternatives out there (Blink, Webkit, just to
name two that I've heard of..  then we come to the murky-i-don't-know
territory that is Trident et. al).  However, changing our interfaces
from Gecko to use anything else is just as difficult to do (and dare
I say, impossible given our resources (or lack thereof)).

And anyway, in this day and age,  we live in an ever-changing
environment and thusly the backend would tend to change accordingly.
(There is a reason for it being called 'rapid release').


> Because I don't like the impression I'm getting that the slope is rising
> and that the trend is not in our favor!

The slope has ALWAYS been rising and until we find more resources to
flatten this slope by brute force *grin*, it's gonna be that way.

"not as much as a slope..  it's more close to a cliff than a slope."
:) (not really funny considering our predicament, but life's short..
gotta laugh at the steep/vertical slopes.. :D)  [kinda taken
from "Bottoms" quote : "Steep?  It's Effing Vertical!"]



Edmund

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Re: Seamonkey release?

2016-09-09 Thread cmcadams 

Edmund Wong wrote:

Stephan Thiele wrote:

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I don't really understand why
there still is no Seamonkey update after the 2.40 release in March,
almost half a year ago.


No.  Not a stupid question at all.  In fact, it's a very good question.


I am quite confused that there a nightlies with version numbers
increasing to 2.48 while there is not even a beta.


I wish there was an easy way of explaining this.  But, as Paul
stated, we're just a bunch of volunteers trying hard to maintain
our sanity with changes coming from Gecko's codebase and the
infra that needs a lot more love.  So all in all, a pretty much
mountain climb.

Excuses/reasons aside... I am really sorry for the lack of releases.


Seamonkey is my default browser and mail and news program, so I don't


Ditto here.



like to take any risk of losing my data and mails by using a buggy
nightly. On the other hand, I see a lot of security updates of Firefox
and Thunderbird which have been published in the meantime and therefore
I'm concerned about unfixed vulnerabilities in Seamonkey.

Any hope?


Sure.  I'm (my opinion here.. doesn't reflect the opinion of the
group) not sure if it will be 2.45  or even 2.46.   But we'll see.

"We shall see We shall see.."

Edmund



Edmund,

A good explanation.

So, here's my question: Are there any Gecko alternatives out there that aren't 
changing at a such a furious rate? Something to give us a reasonable (and safe) SM 
but perhaps with a more consistent internal interface that would be simpler to 
integrate with past versions?


Because I don't like the impression I'm getting that the slope is rising and that the 
trend is not in our favor!


Craig
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Re: Seamonkey release?

2016-09-08 Thread Edmund Wong 
Stephan Thiele wrote:
> Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I don't really understand why
> there still is no Seamonkey update after the 2.40 release in March,
> almost half a year ago.

No.  Not a stupid question at all.  In fact, it's a very good question.

> I am quite confused that there a nightlies with version numbers
> increasing to 2.48 while there is not even a beta.

I wish there was an easy way of explaining this.  But, as Paul
stated, we're just a bunch of volunteers trying hard to maintain
our sanity with changes coming from Gecko's codebase and the
infra that needs a lot more love.  So all in all, a pretty much
mountain climb.

Excuses/reasons aside... I am really sorry for the lack of releases.

> Seamonkey is my default browser and mail and news program, so I don't

Ditto here.


> like to take any risk of losing my data and mails by using a buggy
> nightly. On the other hand, I see a lot of security updates of Firefox
> and Thunderbird which have been published in the meantime and therefore
> I'm concerned about unfixed vulnerabilities in Seamonkey.
> 
> Any hope?

Sure.  I'm (my opinion here.. doesn't reflect the opinion of the
group) not sure if it will be 2.45  or even 2.46.   But we'll see.

"We shall see We shall see.."

Edmund
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Re: Seamonkey release?

2016-09-08 Thread Paul Bergsagel 

Stephan Thiele wrote:

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I don't really understand why
there still is no Seamonkey update after the 2.40 release in March,
almost half a year ago.
I am quite confused that there a nightlies with version numbers
increasing to 2.48 while there is not even a beta.
Seamonkey is my default browser and mail and news program, so I don't
like to take any risk of losing my data and mails by using a buggy
nightly. On the other hand, I see a lot of security updates of Firefox
and Thunderbird which have been published in the meantime and therefore
I'm concerned about unfixed vulnerabilities in Seamonkey.

Any hope?
Yes, There is a lot of work to be done between releases. Our Seamonkey 
programmers are volunteers,and should be praised for all the wonderful 
work they put in to maintain Seamonkey. They can only do so much as 
volunteers and can not work on Seamonkey full time.


I love SeaMonkey and thank all our programmers.I can wait a bit longer, 
if it means that SeaMonkey will continue to be updated and usable.


Give the SeaMonkey developers a break since the Firefox developers keep 
adding changes to the underlying Gecko technology that both Firefox, 
Thunderbird and Seamonkey uses. Some of the changes to Gecko are not 
compatible with Seamonkey. Our Seamonkey programmers do amazing work 
adapting/reverting Gecko changes made by FireFox programmers so that 
Seamonky and NOT some offshoot clone of Firefox.I praise the SeaMonkey 
programmers for their tireless work maintaining and keeping SeaMonkey as 
Seamonkey and not some offshoot or clone of FireFox.



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Re: SeaMonkey Release Delay(s)

2014-08-05 Thread EE 

hawker wrote:

On 7/16/2014 9:07 PM, Justin Wood (Callek) wrote:

Hey Everyone,

Again I'm sorry for delays on beta's, and sorry for delays which caused
us to technically skip a gecko release last cycle.

But I wanted to give you all a followup, I'm getting much closer to
getting a beta out there now, and correcting dev versions from our
system, however it looks likely we won't have a release within a day or
two of Firefox this cycle.

I'm going to concentrate our effort on getting a new beta out the door
within a week of Firefox's final release, if for some reason I can't,
I'm planning on backing out my effort temporarily to ship another
sec/stability release based on teh last full seamonkey release.

That sec/stability work would delay our other work here by about a week,
but I don't want to leave everyone stranded with regards to security/etc
any longer than necessary.

If all goes well, I'm expecting to have a final release, based on the
current Firefox release out no later than 2-weeks after Firefox is
shipped.

And if everything does go well, we can have yet another new beta after
that.

~Justin Wood (Callek)


Thank you for all you do for Seamonkey.
FWIW I could care less how often Seamonkey gets updated. Every 6 months
or even more would be fine. The security updates don't bother me either
since I think I have most of it dealt with in other ways.

What is important to me is that the limited volunteer resources get as
much done for the project as possible in the limited time they have. I
want to see bug fixes and features that keep SM the best browser out
there. If frequent releases distract from that then who cares.
It seems to me if you had half as many releases we would see more
accomplished in the end over time since your not worrying about build
schedules, release dates, beta testing etc.

Why does SM have to stay on such a fast release schedule? What was wrong
with the slower schedule of yesteryear? Just because FF and TB do it
does SM need to as well?


SeaMonkey has to keep updating the browsing capabilities as well as the 
security.  The interface does not have to keep changing, thank goodness.


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Re: SeaMonkey Release Delay(s)

2014-08-01 Thread Ant 

Cool and thanks. :)


On 7/30/2014 9:10 PM PT, Justin Wood (Callek) typed:


Just an update everyone,

The physical machines are in place and good I'm working on getting the
buildbot (automation) up to snuff with :ewong's help to make use of this.

~Justin Wood (Callek)

On 7/16/2014 9:07 PM, Justin Wood (Callek) wrote:

Hey Everyone,

Again I'm sorry for delays on beta's, and sorry for delays which caused
us to technically skip a gecko release last cycle.

But I wanted to give you all a followup, I'm getting much closer to
getting a beta out there now, and correcting dev versions from our
system, however it looks likely we won't have a release within a day or
two of Firefox this cycle.

I'm going to concentrate our effort on getting a new beta out the door
within a week of Firefox's final release, if for some reason I can't,
I'm planning on backing out my effort temporarily to ship another
sec/stability release based on teh last full seamonkey release.

That sec/stability work would delay our other work here by about a week,
but I don't want to leave everyone stranded with regards to security/etc
any longer than necessary.

If all goes well, I'm expecting to have a final release, based on the
current Firefox release out no later than 2-weeks after Firefox is
shipped.

And if everything does go well, we can have yet another new beta after
that.

~Justin Wood (Callek)





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Re: SeaMonkey Release Delay(s)

2014-07-30 Thread Justin Wood (Callek) 

Just an update everyone,

The physical machines are in place and good I'm working on getting the 
buildbot (automation) up to snuff with :ewong's help to make use of this.


~Justin Wood (Callek)

On 7/16/2014 9:07 PM, Justin Wood (Callek) wrote:

Hey Everyone,

Again I'm sorry for delays on beta's, and sorry for delays which caused
us to technically skip a gecko release last cycle.

But I wanted to give you all a followup, I'm getting much closer to
getting a beta out there now, and correcting dev versions from our
system, however it looks likely we won't have a release within a day or
two of Firefox this cycle.

I'm going to concentrate our effort on getting a new beta out the door
within a week of Firefox's final release, if for some reason I can't,
I'm planning on backing out my effort temporarily to ship another
sec/stability release based on teh last full seamonkey release.

That sec/stability work would delay our other work here by about a week,
but I don't want to leave everyone stranded with regards to security/etc
any longer than necessary.

If all goes well, I'm expecting to have a final release, based on the
current Firefox release out no later than 2-weeks after Firefox is shipped.

And if everything does go well, we can have yet another new beta after
that.

~Justin Wood (Callek)


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Re: SeaMonkey Release Delay(s)

2014-07-29 Thread Ant 

Any status update on SM's delay? ;)
--
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some day see his folly. --African

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Re: SeaMonkey Release Delay(s)

2014-07-22 Thread MCBastos 
Interviewed by CNN on 21/07/2014 01:28, Justin Wood (Callek) told the
world:
 For the record, I couldn't have said this better myself.
 
 (I probably have attempted to many times in the past though)
 
 Thank you MCBastos.

I'm happy to give what little help I'm able to contribute. Feel free to
quote, cut, paste, adapt, modify and reuse my previous message if it
saves you time when communicating with the userbase, Callek. In fact, if
there is any list of wanted FAQ topics in need to be tackled, just
point me to the relevant places to contribute. I'm not much of a coder,
but I'm told that I'm a reasonably good writer.


-- 
MCBastos

This message has been protected with the 2ROT13 algorithm. Unauthorized
use will be prosecuted under the DMCA.

-=-=-
... Sent from my corner mailbox.
* Added by TagZilla 0.7a1 running on Seamonkey *
Get it at http://xsidebar.mozdev.org/modifiedmailnews.html#tagzilla
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Re: SeaMonkey Release Delay(s)

2014-07-21 Thread bdelmee 

Cheers Justin (and all devs) for a continued, albeit mostly thankless
job. And thanks MCBastos for a clear explanation of why sticking to
ESR releases is not the panacea it might appear to be. If I am not
mistaken,the debian devs tried just that for their squeeze package of
seamonkey (aka iceape), then it disappeared altogether for wheezy,
perhaps because of the problem explained, namely that too many changes
had affected the gecko engine in between... I was annoyed at first,
then realised the mozilla binaries work just fine, and their incremental
updates are lighter than a full build packaged as a deb package.

Bernard


Justin Wood (Callek) wrote, On 2014-07-21 06:28:

For the record, I couldn't have said this better myself.

(I probably have attempted to many times in the past though)

Thank you MCBastos.

~Justin Wood (Callek)
SeaMonkey Council Member
SeaMonkey Release Engineer

On 7/18/2014 1:39 AM, MCBastos wrote:

Interviewed by CNN on 17/07/2014 16:18, hawker told the world:


Why does SM have to stay on such a fast release schedule? What was wrong
with the slower schedule of yesteryear? Just because FF and TB do it
does SM need to as well?


Sorta. The Firefox people are the ones responsible for Gecko, which is
the engine that powers Seamonkey as well. Every six weeks a new Gecko
version is released with bug fixes, security fixes and small feature
increments.

The important thing to keep in mind is that the previous version is
immediately _dropped_. No support at all. No bug fixes. No security
fixes.

Well, there is an exception to that: they keep supporting _one_ older
version, for roughly _one_ year. That's for the Firefox Extended Support
Release (ESR). Right now that would be Firefox 24 ESR. This Gecko
version receives mostly security and stability fixes, and few if any
other sorts of fixes.

One might think: OK, the why don't they use the ESR version of Gecko
and update at a more leisurely pace? That's what the Thunderbird guys
are doing, after all.

Here's the thing: by doing that, the SM team would have to deal all at
once with whatever issues that could have been spread over eight upgrade
cycles or so and dealt with piecemeal. Which means a far larger chance
for disastrous issues. (This is not as much of a problem for Thunderbird
because, well, T-bird only deals with plaintext and HTML e-mail, which
evolves far slower than Web HTML. It doesn't even attempt to process
Javascript, for instance -- it just ignores it.)

Also, let's say for the sake of argument that some new code in Gecko 25
caused problems in SM but the issue went unreported and ignored because
SM stuck with Gecko 24 for one year. By the time the issue surfaces
(around Gecko 32 or thereabouts), the fix can become much harder,
because by then the Firefox team has added four our five more things
that can be broken because they depend on how the Gecko-25 code behaves.
So now instead of one bug to fix, you have maybe half a dozen.

Simply stated, the dev team _has_ to keep up. They have to keep testing
the Seamonkey code with each new release, identify issues and either fix
them in SM code or report the issue to the Gecko team. Going to the
trouble of making sure that SM works with Gecko, say, 31 (to be released
next week) and not giving the users the benefits of the security fixes
in Gecko 31 would be sorta irresponsible.






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Re: SeaMonkey Release Delay(s)

2014-07-20 Thread Justin Wood (Callek) 

For the record, I couldn't have said this better myself.

(I probably have attempted to many times in the past though)

Thank you MCBastos.

~Justin Wood (Callek)
SeaMonkey Council Member
SeaMonkey Release Engineer

On 7/18/2014 1:39 AM, MCBastos wrote:

Interviewed by CNN on 17/07/2014 16:18, hawker told the world:


Why does SM have to stay on such a fast release schedule? What was wrong
with the slower schedule of yesteryear? Just because FF and TB do it
does SM need to as well?


Sorta. The Firefox people are the ones responsible for Gecko, which is
the engine that powers Seamonkey as well. Every six weeks a new Gecko
version is released with bug fixes, security fixes and small feature
increments.

The important thing to keep in mind is that the previous version is
immediately _dropped_. No support at all. No bug fixes. No security fixes.

Well, there is an exception to that: they keep supporting _one_ older
version, for roughly _one_ year. That's for the Firefox Extended Support
Release (ESR). Right now that would be Firefox 24 ESR. This Gecko
version receives mostly security and stability fixes, and few if any
other sorts of fixes.

One might think: OK, the why don't they use the ESR version of Gecko
and update at a more leisurely pace? That's what the Thunderbird guys
are doing, after all.

Here's the thing: by doing that, the SM team would have to deal all at
once with whatever issues that could have been spread over eight upgrade
cycles or so and dealt with piecemeal. Which means a far larger chance
for disastrous issues. (This is not as much of a problem for Thunderbird
because, well, T-bird only deals with plaintext and HTML e-mail, which
evolves far slower than Web HTML. It doesn't even attempt to process
Javascript, for instance -- it just ignores it.)

Also, let's say for the sake of argument that some new code in Gecko 25
caused problems in SM but the issue went unreported and ignored because
SM stuck with Gecko 24 for one year. By the time the issue surfaces
(around Gecko 32 or thereabouts), the fix can become much harder,
because by then the Firefox team has added four our five more things
that can be broken because they depend on how the Gecko-25 code behaves.
So now instead of one bug to fix, you have maybe half a dozen.

Simply stated, the dev team _has_ to keep up. They have to keep testing
the Seamonkey code with each new release, identify issues and either fix
them in SM code or report the issue to the Gecko team. Going to the
trouble of making sure that SM works with Gecko, say, 31 (to be released
next week) and not giving the users the benefits of the security fixes
in Gecko 31 would be sorta irresponsible.




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Re: SeaMonkey Release Delay(s)

2014-07-19 Thread arnelnd1 
Den torsdagen den 17:e juli 2014 kl. 17:25:32 UTC+2 skrev David E. Ross:
 On 7/16/2014 6:07 PM, Justin Wood (Callek) wrote:
 
  Hey Everyone,
 
  
 
  Again I'm sorry for delays on beta's, and sorry for delays which caused 
 
  us to technically skip a gecko release last cycle.
 
  
 
  But I wanted to give you all a followup, I'm getting much closer to 
 
  getting a beta out there now, and correcting dev versions from our 
 
  system, however it looks likely we won't have a release within a day or 
 
  two of Firefox this cycle.
 
  
 
  I'm going to concentrate our effort on getting a new beta out the door 
 
  within a week of Firefox's final release, if for some reason I can't, 
 
  I'm planning on backing out my effort temporarily to ship another 
 
  sec/stability release based on teh last full seamonkey release.
 
  
 
  That sec/stability work would delay our other work here by about a week, 
 
  but I don't want to leave everyone stranded with regards to security/etc 
 
  any longer than necessary.
 
  
 
  If all goes well, I'm expecting to have a final release, based on the 
 
  current Firefox release out no later than 2-weeks after Firefox is shipped.
 
  
 
  And if everything does go well, we can have yet another new beta after that.
 
  
 
  ~Justin Wood (Callek)
 
  
 
 
 
 For a free application that has a much better user interface than
 
 Firefox, I refuse to complain that my current version is a month old.
 
 
 

Ditto to that! Don't worry Justin, take the time you need to release next 
version.
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Re: SeaMonkey Release Delay(s)

2014-07-19 Thread Ant 

On 7/19/2014 5:35 AM PT, arnel...@gmail.com typed:

 For a free application that has a much better user interface than


Firefox, I refuse to complain that my current version is a month old.


Ditto to that! Don't worry Justin, take the time you need to release next 
version.


Yeah, we don't want a buggy release too! :D
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Re: SeaMonkey Release Delay(s)

2014-07-17 Thread Ant 

On 7/16/2014 10:30 PM PT, Daniel typed:
...

~Justin Wood (Callek)


Thanks for your efforts with this update, Calleck.

Any news on a Linux x64 Beta build, or is this somewhere further down
the line??


Ditto. We still 3 SM even if they are a little old. :)
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Re: SeaMonkey Release Delay(s)

2014-07-17 Thread David E. Ross 
On 7/16/2014 6:07 PM, Justin Wood (Callek) wrote:
 Hey Everyone,
 
 Again I'm sorry for delays on beta's, and sorry for delays which caused 
 us to technically skip a gecko release last cycle.
 
 But I wanted to give you all a followup, I'm getting much closer to 
 getting a beta out there now, and correcting dev versions from our 
 system, however it looks likely we won't have a release within a day or 
 two of Firefox this cycle.
 
 I'm going to concentrate our effort on getting a new beta out the door 
 within a week of Firefox's final release, if for some reason I can't, 
 I'm planning on backing out my effort temporarily to ship another 
 sec/stability release based on teh last full seamonkey release.
 
 That sec/stability work would delay our other work here by about a week, 
 but I don't want to leave everyone stranded with regards to security/etc 
 any longer than necessary.
 
 If all goes well, I'm expecting to have a final release, based on the 
 current Firefox release out no later than 2-weeks after Firefox is shipped.
 
 And if everything does go well, we can have yet another new beta after that.
 
 ~Justin Wood (Callek)
 

For a free application that has a much better user interface than
Firefox, I refuse to complain that my current version is a month old.

-- 

David E. Ross
http://www.rossde.com/

On occasion, I filter and ignore all newsgroup messages
posted through GoogleGroups via Google's G2/1.0 user agent
because of spam, flames, and trolling from that source.
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Re: SeaMonkey Release Delay(s)

2014-07-17 Thread Ed Mullen 

Justin Wood (Callek) pounded out :

Hey Everyone,

Again I'm sorry for delays on beta's, and sorry for delays which caused
us to technically skip a gecko release last cycle.

But I wanted to give you all a followup, I'm getting much closer to
getting a beta out there now, and correcting dev versions from our
system, however it looks likely we won't have a release within a day or
two of Firefox this cycle.

I'm going to concentrate our effort on getting a new beta out the door
within a week of Firefox's final release, if for some reason I can't,
I'm planning on backing out my effort temporarily to ship another
sec/stability release based on teh last full seamonkey release.

That sec/stability work would delay our other work here by about a week,
but I don't want to leave everyone stranded with regards to security/etc
any longer than necessary.

If all goes well, I'm expecting to have a final release, based on the
current Firefox release out no later than 2-weeks after Firefox is shipped.

And if everything does go well, we can have yet another new beta after
that.

~Justin Wood (Callek)


Thanks, Justin.  The efforts are much appreciated.

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
Some people never see the light till it shines thru bullet holes. - 
Bruce Cockburn

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Re: SeaMonkey Release Delay(s)

2014-07-17 Thread hawker 

On 7/16/2014 9:07 PM, Justin Wood (Callek) wrote:

Hey Everyone,

Again I'm sorry for delays on beta's, and sorry for delays which caused
us to technically skip a gecko release last cycle.

But I wanted to give you all a followup, I'm getting much closer to
getting a beta out there now, and correcting dev versions from our
system, however it looks likely we won't have a release within a day or
two of Firefox this cycle.

I'm going to concentrate our effort on getting a new beta out the door
within a week of Firefox's final release, if for some reason I can't,
I'm planning on backing out my effort temporarily to ship another
sec/stability release based on teh last full seamonkey release.

That sec/stability work would delay our other work here by about a week,
but I don't want to leave everyone stranded with regards to security/etc
any longer than necessary.

If all goes well, I'm expecting to have a final release, based on the
current Firefox release out no later than 2-weeks after Firefox is shipped.

And if everything does go well, we can have yet another new beta after
that.

~Justin Wood (Callek)


Thank you for all you do for Seamonkey.
FWIW I could care less how often Seamonkey gets updated. Every 6 months 
or even more would be fine. The security updates don't bother me either 
since I think I have most of it dealt with in other ways.


What is important to me is that the limited volunteer resources get as 
much done for the project as possible in the limited time they have. I 
want to see bug fixes and features that keep SM the best browser out 
there. If frequent releases distract from that then who cares.
It seems to me if you had half as many releases we would see more 
accomplished in the end over time since your not worrying about build 
schedules, release dates, beta testing etc.


Why does SM have to stay on such a fast release schedule? What was wrong 
with the slower schedule of yesteryear? Just because FF and TB do it 
does SM need to as well?

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Re: SeaMonkey Release Delay(s)

2014-07-17 Thread Ray_Net 

hawker wrote, On 17/07/2014 21:18:

On 7/16/2014 9:07 PM, Justin Wood (Callek) wrote:

Hey Everyone,

Again I'm sorry for delays on beta's, and sorry for delays which caused
us to technically skip a gecko release last cycle.

But I wanted to give you all a followup, I'm getting much closer to
getting a beta out there now, and correcting dev versions from our
system, however it looks likely we won't have a release within a day or
two of Firefox this cycle.

I'm going to concentrate our effort on getting a new beta out the door
within a week of Firefox's final release, if for some reason I can't,
I'm planning on backing out my effort temporarily to ship another
sec/stability release based on teh last full seamonkey release.

That sec/stability work would delay our other work here by about a week,
but I don't want to leave everyone stranded with regards to security/etc
any longer than necessary.

If all goes well, I'm expecting to have a final release, based on the
current Firefox release out no later than 2-weeks after Firefox is 
shipped.


And if everything does go well, we can have yet another new beta after
that.

~Justin Wood (Callek)


Thank you for all you do for Seamonkey.
FWIW I could care less how often Seamonkey gets updated. Every 6 
months or even more would be fine. The security updates don't bother 
me either since I think I have most of it dealt with in other ways.


What is important to me is that the limited volunteer resources get as 
much done for the project as possible in the limited time they have. I 
want to see bug fixes and features that keep SM the best browser out 
there. If frequent releases distract from that then who cares.
It seems to me if you had half as many releases we would see more 
accomplished in the end over time since your not worrying about build 
schedules, release dates, beta testing etc.


Why does SM have to stay on such a fast release schedule? What was 
wrong with the slower schedule of yesteryear? Just because FF and TB 
do it does SM need to as well?
I agree with your last sentence, because i upgrade my SM not more than 
once or twice a year.

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Re: SeaMonkey Release Delay(s)

2014-07-17 Thread Trane Francks 

On 7/18/14 4:18 AM, hawker wrote:


Why does SM have to stay on such a fast release schedule? What was wrong
with the slower schedule of yesteryear? Just because FF and TB do it
does SM need to as well?


The most important element there is to stay on top of security fixes. As
vulnerabilities are discovered, they need to be patched and new versions
deployed to ensure the safest possible browsing experience. What
SeaMonkey has always done right, in my opinion, is to maintain a stable
user interface while addressing stability and security concerns.

trane
--
/
// Trane Francks   tr...@tranefrancks.com   Tokyo, Japan
// Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.
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Re: SeaMonkey Release Delay(s)

2014-07-17 Thread Danny Kile 

hawker wrote:

On 7/16/2014 9:07 PM, Justin Wood (Callek) wrote:

Hey Everyone,

Again I'm sorry for delays on beta's, and sorry for delays which caused
us to technically skip a gecko release last cycle.

But I wanted to give you all a followup, I'm getting much closer to
getting a beta out there now, and correcting dev versions from our
system, however it looks likely we won't have a release within a day or
two of Firefox this cycle.

I'm going to concentrate our effort on getting a new beta out the door
within a week of Firefox's final release, if for some reason I can't,
I'm planning on backing out my effort temporarily to ship another
sec/stability release based on teh last full seamonkey release.

That sec/stability work would delay our other work here by about a week,
but I don't want to leave everyone stranded with regards to security/etc
any longer than necessary.

If all goes well, I'm expecting to have a final release, based on the
current Firefox release out no later than 2-weeks after Firefox is
shipped.

And if everything does go well, we can have yet another new beta after
that.

~Justin Wood (Callek)


Thank you for all you do for Seamonkey.
FWIW I could care less how often Seamonkey gets updated. Every 6 months
or even more would be fine. The security updates don't bother me either
since I think I have most of it dealt with in other ways.

What is important to me is that the limited volunteer resources get as
much done for the project as possible in the limited time they have. I
want to see bug fixes and features that keep SM the best browser out
there. If frequent releases distract from that then who cares.
It seems to me if you had half as many releases we would see more
accomplished in the end over time since your not worrying about build
schedules, release dates, beta testing etc.

Why does SM have to stay on such a fast release schedule? What was wrong
with the slower schedule of yesteryear? Just because FF and TB do it
does SM need to as well?


I agree with you whole-heartedly!

Danny,
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Re: SeaMonkey Release Delay(s)

2014-07-17 Thread MCBastos 
Interviewed by CNN on 17/07/2014 16:18, hawker told the world:

 Why does SM have to stay on such a fast release schedule? What was wrong 
 with the slower schedule of yesteryear? Just because FF and TB do it 
 does SM need to as well?

Sorta. The Firefox people are the ones responsible for Gecko, which is
the engine that powers Seamonkey as well. Every six weeks a new Gecko
version is released with bug fixes, security fixes and small feature
increments.

The important thing to keep in mind is that the previous version is
immediately _dropped_. No support at all. No bug fixes. No security fixes.

Well, there is an exception to that: they keep supporting _one_ older
version, for roughly _one_ year. That's for the Firefox Extended Support
Release (ESR). Right now that would be Firefox 24 ESR. This Gecko
version receives mostly security and stability fixes, and few if any
other sorts of fixes.

One might think: OK, the why don't they use the ESR version of Gecko
and update at a more leisurely pace? That's what the Thunderbird guys
are doing, after all.

Here's the thing: by doing that, the SM team would have to deal all at
once with whatever issues that could have been spread over eight upgrade
cycles or so and dealt with piecemeal. Which means a far larger chance
for disastrous issues. (This is not as much of a problem for Thunderbird
because, well, T-bird only deals with plaintext and HTML e-mail, which
evolves far slower than Web HTML. It doesn't even attempt to process
Javascript, for instance -- it just ignores it.)

Also, let's say for the sake of argument that some new code in Gecko 25
caused problems in SM but the issue went unreported and ignored because
SM stuck with Gecko 24 for one year. By the time the issue surfaces
(around Gecko 32 or thereabouts), the fix can become much harder,
because by then the Firefox team has added four our five more things
that can be broken because they depend on how the Gecko-25 code behaves.
So now instead of one bug to fix, you have maybe half a dozen.

Simply stated, the dev team _has_ to keep up. They have to keep testing
the Seamonkey code with each new release, identify issues and either fix
them in SM code or report the issue to the Gecko team. Going to the
trouble of making sure that SM works with Gecko, say, 31 (to be released
next week) and not giving the users the benefits of the security fixes
in Gecko 31 would be sorta irresponsible.


-- 
MCBastos

This message has been protected with the 2ROT13 algorithm. Unauthorized
use will be prosecuted under the DMCA.

-=-=-
... Sent from my Franklin Translator.
* Added by TagZilla 0.7a1 running on Seamonkey *
Get it at http://xsidebar.mozdev.org/modifiedmailnews.html#tagzilla
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Re: SeaMonkey Release Delay(s)

2014-07-16 Thread Daniel 

On 17/07/14 11:07, Justin Wood (Callek) wrote:

Hey Everyone,

Again I'm sorry for delays on beta's, and sorry for delays which caused
us to technically skip a gecko release last cycle.

But I wanted to give you all a followup, I'm getting much closer to
getting a beta out there now, and correcting dev versions from our
system, however it looks likely we won't have a release within a day or
two of Firefox this cycle.

I'm going to concentrate our effort on getting a new beta out the door
within a week of Firefox's final release, if for some reason I can't,
I'm planning on backing out my effort temporarily to ship another
sec/stability release based on teh last full seamonkey release.

That sec/stability work would delay our other work here by about a week,
but I don't want to leave everyone stranded with regards to security/etc
any longer than necessary.

If all goes well, I'm expecting to have a final release, based on the
current Firefox release out no later than 2-weeks after Firefox is shipped.

And if everything does go well, we can have yet another new beta after
that.

~Justin Wood (Callek)


Thanks for your efforts with this update, Calleck.

Any news on a Linux x64 Beta build, or is this somewhere further down 
the line??


--
Daniel

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:29.0) Gecko/20100101 
Firefox/29.0 SeaMonkey/2.26 Build identifier: 20140415200419

or
User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:29.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.26 Build identifier: 20140408191805

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