[biofuels-biz] Coconut Crazy
This message is for Michael Allen: I am looking for specifics regarding coconut oil as an energy feedstock. Specifically, what is the ratio of nuts (per ton) to barrel yield of fuel? What is the btu content of coconut oil? I am researching the fesibility of replacement of diesel fuel in isolated economies with bio-diesel as a means of electric generation. Previously I was an Alternative Energy Administrator for a major west coast utility and have always been interested in ways to replace fossil fuels with alternatives. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Inkjet cartridges up to 80% off. HP, Epson, Lexmark--we have your brand. Free shipping on every order to the U.S. and Canada! Excellent service. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/QWB0QC/.eUGAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] Researchers find new metal combination for cheaper production of hydrogen as fuel
Catalysts made of nickel and aluminum produce hydrogen but also produce methane, an unwanted pollutant. By adding more tin to the combination, the production of methane was halted, while the production of hydrogen was increased, Dumesic said. This is a big deal, to me. I wonder if or how something like it could work with biodiesel or ethanol, allowing them to be reformed onboard and used in an H2 fuel cell? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save on Coral Calcium. Get Better Health and Stronger Bones. Seen on TV http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid-2805lp=calcium2.asp http://us.click.yahoo.com/9gf46B/EfUGAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Wood-To-Electricity
http://www.covantaenergy.com/energy/biomass.php4 I was just in Oroville, one of the four sites listed, and a resident told me that in the past, waste wood that had been cleared or cut down but not used was piled up in the forests, making them hard to pass through, and then burned in the winter if possible. Now the wood could be used in the generator, and tree trimmers tended to park their trucks in the generator's yard, as that's where they would bring their waste at the end of the day anyway. This person told me that in the past they'd have to pay to dispose of such waste, but now they'd get paid for it. Don't know how accurate this was. One example we discussed was a type of pine that wasn't much good for building or burning (BTU too low). Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save on Coral Calcium. Get Better Health and Stronger Bones. Seen on TV http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid-2805lp=calcium2.asp http://us.click.yahoo.com/9gf46B/EfUGAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: [renewable-energy] Wood-To-Electricity
I did not research how old some of the plants were. What I did do, within the last week, was talk to a retired engineer who lived in the area. He reported to me what I have already written. He also said that emissions didn't seem to be an issue, that scrubbing was excellent (in his view). This also was something that I ran across at the same time as the nation faces that dastardly waste dead wood and brush fuel in our forest that has all the pesky energy in it and, gosh, we can't figure out what to do with it. But we do know that, (apparently, judging from what Ive seen), we're going to continue building houses from combustibles and then wringing our hands when fire approaches or destroys those houses. While we're at it, we're going to see to it that insurance carriers are less than communicative about offering any discount for building in an unconventional fire-preventive way. So, you're welcome for the reference. The plants may be old, but the relevance is still in the here-and-now. If California has lots of wood, and other combustible waste and plenty of need for electricity, then let's look at the two issues as connected. On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 06:56:41 -0700, you wrote: Hey, THANKS for the old news! LOL Those four plants have been there for over 10 years now! But the link is a handy reference. http://www.covantaenergy.com/energy/biomass.php4 I was just in Oroville, one of the four sites listed, and a resident told me that in the past, waste wood that had been cleared or cut down but not used was piled up in the forests, making them hard to pass through, and then burned in the winter if possible. Now the wood could be used in the generator, and tree trimmers tended to park their trucks in the generator's yard, as that's where they would bring their waste at the end of the day anyway. This person told me that in the past they'd have to pay to dispose of such waste, but now they'd get paid for it. Don't know how accurate this was. One example we discussed was a type of pine that wasn't much good for building or burning (BTU too low). Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save up to 80% on top-quality inkjet cartridges and get your order fast! FREE shipping on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. Shop at Myinks.com! http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/v2G7ND/KfUGAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] The Hydrogen hype, the scam artists at work.
robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robert Mills wrote: The electrolysis of water cannot be called a renewable resource simply because it is a process used to change a renewable resource called water and not within itself a renewable resource. Oh brother, here we go! Let's take some electric energy generated by concentrated photovoltaics (made by man and yes, it will wear out and not be renewed by mother nature) and use the current to electolyze water. ( a process, not a renewable resource) When we burn the hydrogen produced, it combines with oxygen in the air to produce water vapor. Water vapor rises into the atmosphere, cools and condenses on dust forming clouds. When these clouds become heavy enough, the water falls back to earth as rain. The entire cycle is powered by the sun. Can you please explain what is NOT renewable about this? The renewable resource is water and it cannot be returned to hydrogen without intervention by man. Mother nature will return the water but it is up to man and a process requiring external energy to make the hydrogen again. www.genesisworldenergy.com is some designed technology devices wherein water is changed to hydrogen and oxygen and used accordingly to make electricity or provide gas for gas appliances. It specifically states that it requires the constant input of water. It also does not say that the water claimed as the exhaust if you will from the process can in itself be reused or must be discarded. If it must be discarded, what is wrong with it that it cannot be reused again and what environmental problems will occur here? It's a scam. Hold on to your wallet! You could well be right on this one!!! To further complicate things, I cannot find anywhere whereby the molecule O lives in nature without it's electron attached to form O2. This worrys me that we may have a uniting of H2 and O2 as an exhaust process which is HYDROGEN PEROXIDE or in other terms more acid rain as a result. I also don't know if there are any answers out there as to the environmental pollution like photochemical smog that will result when the sun hits this product in mass. Oxygen would much rather combine with two hydrogen atoms than another oxygen atom. The attraction is irresistible. Burning hydrogen will not produce hydrogen peroxide. True as far as it goes; I guess we could wait and see if we all have burning sinuses, watery eyes and blonde hair before we know for sure. The use of hydrogen in an ICE engine creates another problem in as much as the 122 cu. ft. standard hydrogen cylinder available from your local welding supplier contains the heat value of the hydrogen as 67,000 btu's of heat energy. This means that the hydrogen bottle will move the vehicle the same distance as 2/3 of one gallon of today's gasoline will take it down the road. This is why nobody should use such a ridiculous means of hydrogen storage to power a vehicle! A standard, automotive natural gas tank is the MINIMUM threshold for range and safety. One such tank would power my four cylinder Ranger for a little less than 100 kilometers at highway speed. Most natural gas conversions involve at least two storage tanks. Is hydrogen and natural gas, methane, really that far apart? If you are using the standard 1000 btu cu.ft. natural gas, you are using the same storage pressure, 2,200 psig,.The safety hazards would be pretty much the same assuming your intention was problems involving accidents, etc. The energy difference, 122,000 btu per tank full for natural gas vs 67,000 btu's for hydrogen are not really that far apart. Your 100 kilometers, (55 miles), would stretch about 40% more per tank full of energy. There would be an energy advantage in as much as fueling the tank would take the same energy to pump it up but would deliver more energy output for the same energy input because of the btu difference of the fuel. Cost of the fuel itself could make quite a difference here as well. The only time I ever drive more than 100 kilometers in a single day is when I'm visiting my in-laws (once or twice every 90 days), or taking a trip. The vast majority of my driving involves distances well within the range of a single tank. This is why EVs are more practical than most people think. We have a mentality that insists we MUST have 500 kilometers of range before an alternative fuel becomes viable. For most of us, this simply isn't true. Besides, a hydrogen conversion would most likely be dual fuel, so the range issue isn't really an issue. On the brighter side, I see news out there that someone has perfected a solar cell that will take advantage of more of the light spectrum in the conversion of sunlight to electricity. Don't hold your breath for this! This holds promise that we may well get solar cells all over our car that will supply sufficient electricity to keep our vehicle
RE: [biofuel] No need for conservation?
Many of the other emissions have much higher greenhouse gas impact than CO2. Methane, a common exhaust emission - particularly from diesels, has 20 times the greenhouse gas impact than CO2. As always a holistic view is required. I think it would be really useful if this forum could help with ways of bringing biofuels into a more mainstream environment. I am a chemical engineer working in the wastewater industry (predominantly) and there is huge potential worldwide to convert waste of all types into biofuel. However, the initially cost will be higher. This is a necessary step in all developing fields as it takes time for technologies to improve the economics to be developed. This development can not happen until there is a revenue stream to fund it. My preferred option at the moment is to use the short chain fatty acids readily available by anaerobic digestion of many waste streams to convert them to esters with either ethanol (preferred due to biofuel source) or methanol (more convenient) to add to the gasoline fuel pool in a similar manner to ethanol. This has been demonstrated as possible in Europe. The advantages are that the esters have a higher fuel density than ethanol while still being from a biological source, hence CO2 neutral. Any assistance that the forum can provide in helping find ways to get this method into utilisation would be appreciated. Garry. -Original Message- From: Ken Provost [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 4 July 2003 6:05 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] No need for conservation? On Thursday, July 3, 2003, at 10:40 AM, James Slayden wrote: I seriously don't think that even a diesel truck (or SUV) running on B100 getting 20 (or less) mpg could do better in consumption or emissions, only the TDI running B100 besting this. Now when diesel hybrids and high milage diesels come out int the US, that will be a different story. My main concern has always been CO2 rather than emissions, in keeping with the view that humans get what's coming to them if they choose to live in cities, whereas CO2 (yes,yes, I know about acid rain :-)) affects the whole planet. In that sense, crappy biodiesel mileage can still be better than good petro mileage -K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save on Coral Calcium. Get Better Health and Stronger Bones. Seen on TV http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid-2805lp=calcium2.asp http://us.click.yahoo.com/9gf46B/EfUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Ethanol fuel engine alterations
The other really important thing to check is the corrosion potential of the other components in the fuel system and the engine itself. In particular check the compatibility of the seals and pipes. You should also make sure that the injectors are up to the task. Ethanol is very corrosive, mostly due to its affinity to water, but also in its own right. If you do not ensure that the material are suitable it can result in some catastrophic engine failures = very expensive. Suitable material components are usually available though. Good luck. Garry. -Original Message- From: robert luis rabello [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 4 July 2003 11:24 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Ethanol fuel engine alterations Chicago Medi-Transit wrote: I am looking for information that can provide me with difficulty or simplicity of converting a 2002 Ford E250 v6 engine to run on ethanol fuel. Information that I have discovered on the major auto makers websites are indirectly discouraging conversions expressing the difficulty. So I am seeking thoughts and suggestions from the group. Journey to Forever site briefly explains in one paragraph some minor changes. So if there is anyone that can assist me, it would be greatly appreciated. Check out this link: http://www.sdsefi.com/specific.html You should be able to run an EFI system using a high pressure fuel pump and this kind of adjustable, computerized injection control. Look into the 30# fuel injectors the guys running turbo and supercharged Mustangs are installing, and while you're at it, consider abnormal aspiration to enable maximum efficiency from the higher octane ethanol. Fuel injection should enable you to run lower proof ethanol. There is not a lot of information available for those of us with fuel injected engines, but from what I understand, high pressure fuel injection essentially eliminates the cold starting problems that plague carbureted engines. Other than that, you can look into the E 85 flexi fuel engines available from Ford. (You may even own one already!) You would need to mix pure ethanol (no water) with 15% gasoline, but this would require NO engine modifications whatsoever--the onboard computer will sense the specific gravity of the fuel and do its magic on your behalf. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save on Coral Calcium. Get Better Health and Stronger Bones. Seen on TV http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid-2805lp=calcium2.asp http://us.click.yahoo.com/9gf46B/EfUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] The Hydrogen hype, the scam artists at work.
Absolutely correct Robert Mills. I should also point out that wind generators could also be used. This combination usually overcomes difficulties of when sufficient sunshine is not available! Garry. -Original Message- From: Robert Mills [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 4 July 2003 4:59 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [biofuel] The Hydrogen hype, the scam artists at work. robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robert Mills wrote: The electrolysis of water cannot be called a renewable resource simply because it is a process used to change a renewable resource called water and not within itself a renewable resource. Oh brother, here we go! Let's take some electric energy generated by concentrated photovoltaics (made by man and yes, it will wear out and not be renewed by mother nature) and use the current to electolyze water. ( a process, not a renewable resource) When we burn the hydrogen produced, it combines with oxygen in the air to produce water vapor. Water vapor rises into the atmosphere, cools and condenses on dust forming clouds. When these clouds become heavy enough, the water falls back to earth as rain. The entire cycle is powered by the sun. Can you please explain what is NOT renewable about this? The renewable resource is water and it cannot be returned to hydrogen without intervention by man. Mother nature will return the water but it is up to man and a process requiring external energy to make the hydrogen again. www.genesisworldenergy.com is some designed technology devices wherein water is changed to hydrogen and oxygen and used accordingly to make electricity or provide gas for gas appliances. It specifically states that it requires the constant input of water. It also does not say that the water claimed as the exhaust if you will from the process can in itself be reused or must be discarded. If it must be discarded, what is wrong with it that it cannot be reused again and what environmental problems will occur here? It's a scam. Hold on to your wallet! You could well be right on this one!!! To further complicate things, I cannot find anywhere whereby the molecule O lives in nature without it's electron attached to form O2. This worrys me that we may have a uniting of H2 and O2 as an exhaust process which is HYDROGEN PEROXIDE or in other terms more acid rain as a result. I also don't know if there are any answers out there as to the environmental pollution like photochemical smog that will result when the sun hits this product in mass. Oxygen would much rather combine with two hydrogen atoms than another oxygen atom. The attraction is irresistible. Burning hydrogen will not produce hydrogen peroxide. True as far as it goes; I guess we could wait and see if we all have burning sinuses, watery eyes and blonde hair before we know for sure. The use of hydrogen in an ICE engine creates another problem in as much as the 122 cu. ft. standard hydrogen cylinder available from your local welding supplier contains the heat value of the hydrogen as 67,000 btu's of heat energy. This means that the hydrogen bottle will move the vehicle the same distance as 2/3 of one gallon of today's gasoline will take it down the road. This is why nobody should use such a ridiculous means of hydrogen storage to power a vehicle! A standard, automotive natural gas tank is the MINIMUM threshold for range and safety. One such tank would power my four cylinder Ranger for a little less than 100 kilometers at highway speed. Most natural gas conversions involve at least two storage tanks. Is hydrogen and natural gas, methane, really that far apart? If you are using the standard 1000 btu cu.ft. natural gas, you are using the same storage pressure, 2,200 psig,.The safety hazards would be pretty much the same assuming your intention was problems involving accidents, etc. The energy difference, 122,000 btu per tank full for natural gas vs 67,000 btu's for hydrogen are not really that far apart. Your 100 kilometers, (55 miles), would stretch about 40% more per tank full of energy. There would be an energy advantage in as much as fueling the tank would take the same energy to pump it up but would deliver more energy output for the same energy input because of the btu difference of the fuel. Cost of the fuel itself could make quite a difference here as well. The only time I ever drive more than 100 kilometers in a single day is when I'm visiting my in-laws (once or twice every 90 days), or taking a trip. The vast majority of my driving involves distances well within the range of a single tank. This is why EVs are more practical than most people think. We have a mentality that insists we MUST have 500 kilometers of range before an alternative fuel becomes viable. For most of us, this simply isn't true. Besides, a hydrogen conversion would most likely be dual fuel, so the
Re: [biofuel] FW: [h2view] Need a place to store your h2? -- crosspost
A Texaco rep told me a couple of years ago, that the reason they took a stake in ECD was, firstly, Hydrogen storage. That said, there are criticisms to be made of ECD's method, and for some reason Texaco appeared to pull back recently from one of their ECD joint ventures, I'm not sure why. Hi, Texaco wants to sell you an h2 storage system http://www.txohydrogen.com/home/home.htm MJ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save on Coral Calcium. Get Better Health and Stronger Bones. Seen on TV http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid-2805lp=calcium2.asp http://us.click.yahoo.com/9gf46B/EfUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Researchers find new metal combination for cheaper production of hydrogen as fuel
Catalysts made of nickel and aluminum produce hydrogen but also produce methane, an unwanted pollutant. By adding more tin to the combination, the production of methane was halted, while the production of hydrogen was increased, Dumesic said. This is a big deal, to me. I wonder if or how something like it could work with biodiesel or ethanol, allowing them to be reformed onboard and used in an H2 fuel cell? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save on Coral Calcium. Get Better Health and Stronger Bones. Seen on TV http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid-2805lp=calcium2.asp http://us.click.yahoo.com/9gf46B/EfUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Bring them on!
Wednesday it was We didn't ask for this war, even though he did everything but beg for it. Thursday it was Bring them on. Brave words when it's not his life in the gun sights. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/07/03/national1535EDT0647.DTL Democrats assail Bush's 'bring them on' comment ALEX ORTOLANI, Associated Press Writer (07-03) 15:04 PDT CONCORD, N.H. (AP) -- Is anyone familiar with President Bush's military service record ?? ~~~ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save on Coral Calcium. Get Better Health and Stronger Bones. Seen on TV http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid-2805lp=calcium2.asp http://us.click.yahoo.com/9gf46B/EfUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] The Hydrogen hype, the scam artists at work.
Bob, One thing is to close your mind to development, and completely other is to (mis)use a technology for political and corporate reasons. Hydrogen have been researched and used for around 100 years. We know a lot about hydrogen and therefore we can do quite good assessment of its suitability for the suggested new general application. It is very many problems that must be solved for this use and it is not ready for use yet. As well as you have to have an open mind, you must also react on the current presentation of Hydrogen as a silver bullet for our energy problems. It is not ready to assume that role and by doing this promotion, the effect is that the minds get closed on other viable and maybe better ready for use solutions. Hakan At 11:58 AM 7/3/2003 -0700, you wrote: snip To all; Do not hold back on your opinions in these discussions. Just think back to some past date when someone told you something that you didn't know and you were so surprised that you commented; Boy, I would never have thought of that, what an idea!! Off we go with another path that may well lead to a new idea, process, or outright discovery. The big boys call them a THINK TANKWe can do it too... Bob Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Inkjet cartridges up to 80% off. HP, Epson, Lexmark--we have your brand. Free shipping on every order to the U.S. and Canada! Excellent service. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/QWB0QC/.eUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel reaction / reactor type
Reading the reasoning behind the two stage process approach it seems to me that the benefit lies in the two different equilibrium points (first stage mass conversion to biodiesel and second stage the -more or less - 100% completion of that conversion). Am I right so far? If this is correct then I do remember my university time that there were two different types of reactors to be used: The batch stirred vessel type that is usually described here and the pipe-type where the reactants flow through a pipe, ususally in different directions. If I remember right the vessel is not good for beeing used in equilibrium state reactions (like assumed here) - it should be preferred for quick reactions that easily reach the 100% end. Taking this into account the better reactor type for our biodiesel rection would be the pipe. Does anyone have any experience in using a pipe-type reactor for producing biodiesel? I think it could easily be built using plastic waste water pipes filles with glas or other inert media and mixed with pulse-pumps (membrane type for example). It would also have the advantage of continuous production Any thoughts about this approach? Andreas Ohnsorge Hello Andreas I think this is the wrong way round: ... (first stage mass conversion to biodiesel and second stage the -more or less - 100% completion of that conversion). It's in the second stage that there's mass conversion to biodiesel. Of course 100% completion is not ever achieved. The goal is to arrive within the limitations set by the various international standards, and the processes available to us now are proven to be more than capable of achieving that. I think your conclusions about different types of reactors might apply in laboratory conditions where accurate research results are important, or in industry at large scale perhaps, but for homebrewers and small-scale local producers at least, and probably well beyond that, there isn't any need: the batch-type stirred and heated processors now in wide use are cheap, simple and effective. FYI, there's a continuous reactor design here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor.html#continuous Some people we know are working successfully with small-scale continuous designs but they're not ready to talk about it yet. Judging by their track record I'd be confident that they'll deliver the goods in good order in due course. I know there's also been much ado about continuous reactors at another forum, FWIW, but I haven't taken any notice, not very interested. Best wishes Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Inkjet cartridges up to 80% off. HP, Epson, Lexmark--we have your brand. Free shipping on every order to the U.S. and Canada! Excellent service. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/QWB0QC/.eUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] The Hydrogen hype, the scam artists at work.
Robert Mills wrote: To all; Do not hold back on your opinions in these discussions. Just think back to some past date when someone told you something that you didn't know and you were so surprised that you commented; Boy, I would never have thought of that, what an idea!! Off we go with another path that may well lead to a new idea, process, or outright discovery. The big boys call them a THINK TANKWe can do it too... Bob Bob, you've talked before about learning curves and so on, well and good, but you're preaching to the choir somewhat. No harm to remind people of it, especially newcomers, but you might like to spend a bit of time in the archives learning something of the history of this group. A great deal of development of all kinds has taken place here and started from here, from technical development to advocacy and campaigning efforts and much besides, and it's been most successful. One list-member said this, one of many such comments both on- and off-list: I just want to say how important what you all are doing here is. Closed-system fuel production, on a local or small regional scale, tied to local resources, using accessible technologies, and dependent on entrepreneurial innovation combined with open-source information exchange - it's AWESOME. Keep up the good work everyone, before the planet fries. Never underestimate the power of a small group of individuals to change the world. In fact, it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead Biofuel archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Best wishes Keith Addison List owner Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save up to 80% on top-quality inkjet cartridges and get your order fast! FREE shipping on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. Shop at Myinks.com! http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/v2G7ND/KfUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: VS: [biofuel] Re: Reusing washing water
Hi Tomas I'll keep you informed of water recycling protocols - namely yahoo search RedBox. Mark Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save on Coral Calcium. Get Better Health and Stronger Bones. Seen on TV http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid-2805lp=calcium2.asp http://us.click.yahoo.com/9gf46B/EfUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Methanol Dehydration CaO
Nope, as far as I have read methanol also forms an azeotrope. Mark Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save on Coral Calcium. Get Better Health and Stronger Bones. Seen on TV http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid-2805lp=calcium2.asp http://us.click.yahoo.com/9gf46B/EfUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Riello burner non-information
Whats the name of this company offering vegetable oil burners? Mark, UK --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: biofuel@yahoogroups.com wrote: Many thanks Hakan, The old oil fired range may have new green lease life I live near Waterford Ireland, where company manufacture these units, veggie oil unit sounds great, upto 85% eff. using water heating as well as cooking dD Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save on Coral Calcium. Get Better Health and Stronger Bones. Seen on TV http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid-2805lp=calcium2.asp http://us.click.yahoo.com/9gf46B/EfUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] The Hydrogen hype, the scam artists at work.
Bob, I was very tempted to touch this before, but refrained from sending that part. Since Keith started it, I will do it now. The biofuel list is a real Think Tank, it is hard to get closer to this definition. The boys and girls that are participating are big in their thought and minds. If you want the version of Think Tank, often created for the purpose of promoting special interests, you came to the wrong place. If you wanted Big Boys, who are big because of corporate obesity, you will not find them here. Welcome to the real thing. Hakan At 08:17 PM 7/4/2003 +0900, you wrote: Robert Mills wrote: To all; Do not hold back on your opinions in these discussions. Just think back to some past date when someone told you something that you didn't know and you were so surprised that you commented; Boy, I would never have thought of that, what an idea!! Off we go with another path that may well lead to a new idea, process, or outright discovery. The big boys call them a THINK TANKWe can do it too... Bob Bob, you've talked before about learning curves and so on, well and good, but you're preaching to the choir somewhat. No harm to remind people of it, especially newcomers, but you might like to spend a bit of time in the archives learning something of the history of this group. A great deal of development of all kinds has taken place here and started from here, from technical development to advocacy and campaigning efforts and much besides, and it's been most successful. One list-member said this, one of many such comments both on- and off-list: I just want to say how important what you all are doing here is. Closed-system fuel production, on a local or small regional scale, tied to local resources, using accessible technologies, and dependent on entrepreneurial innovation combined with open-source information exchange - it's AWESOME. Keep up the good work everyone, before the planet fries. Never underestimate the power of a small group of individuals to change the world. In fact, it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead Biofuel archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Best wishes Keith Addison List owner Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save on Coral Calcium. Get Better Health and Stronger Bones. Seen on TV http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid-2805lp=calcium2.asp http://us.click.yahoo.com/9gf46B/EfUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Researchers find new metal combination forcheaperproduction of hydrogen as fuel
I abandoned the project because fermentation into ethanol produces a fuel that is much easier to handle. There's a bit less energy involved in hydrogen production, but the need for gas compression narrows that gap considerably. This is why I've been saying that it is not a foregone conclusion that H2 is the fuel of the future (as the POTUS and his advisers have apparently presumed to decide for us). Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save on Coral Calcium. Get Better Health and Stronger Bones. Seen on TV http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid-2805lp=calcium2.asp http://us.click.yahoo.com/9gf46B/EfUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Researchers find new metal combination forcheaperproduction of hydrogen as fuel
Thanks for the explanations. Wouldn't ethanol be a good end-goal if not a good feedstock? On Thu, 3 Jul 2003 13:06:43 -0600, you wrote: True, but, this method also gives of CO2 as well as the H2. These two together, are precursors for Methanol which is a basic feedstock for many of the common chemicals made / used today, in the petrochemical industry. With the right catalyst, H2 and CO2 can be made into a multitude of different products ( including gasoline ). I know, I said the bad G word, but, let's face it, this world is not going to get of it's habit over night. One thing about this method, is that by altering the metal catalyst a bit, you produce CH4 -- methane, which is another petrochemical feedstock, as well as the H2 and CO2. I think that in the future, that if any petrochemical wants to truly be green, this might be one of the way they will do it, for their raw feedstock. Ethanol has a few things that detract from it as a feedstock, namely a higher carbon to hydrogen ratio, not much, but, enough to cause an increase in cost, of manufacture, because of the need to do something with it, be it getting rid of it or collecting it for other purposes. Another problem with ethanol, is it's affinity for water, the added cost of denaturing, and the denaturing materials themselves, all of which may be unsuitable for feedstock purposes. On the other hand, the CO2 and H2 or the CO2, H2, and CH4 ( depending on the catalyst and what the final product is to be ) would be a good starting feedstock. Greg H. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save on Coral Calcium. Get Better Health and Stronger Bones. Seen on TV http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid-2805lp=calcium2.asp http://us.click.yahoo.com/9gf46B/EfUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] started out in western australia
l've just started in bio-diesel brewing, l'm wanting help in setting up a home brew kit,can anyone recommend systems? best mixing options [mixed pump or the old drill with a prop method?] system designs welcome plus photos and tips would be most welcome. also how would l find suppliers in my part of the world for methonal and other chemicals needed. regards out there steve perks - Yahoo! Mobile - Check compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save on Coral Calcium. Get Better Health and Stronger Bones. Seen on TV http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid-2805lp=calcium2.asp http://us.click.yahoo.com/9gf46B/EfUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Brain fart. Any comments
Hello, first of all this is just a brain fart. I was toying with the idea of community supplied power from a diesel generator running on WVO. I have located several large generators. The one I was toying with was a 650Kw that uses 174 L/h at 100% load. @ $.20 a litre for WVO the electricity price would have to be .08 Kw/h with a 20.00 month service fee like we have now. This is unlikely to work since Ontario has capped the electricity at .043 Kw/h. But now for the brain fart. With an exhaust temperature of 932 deg Fahrenheit and an engine heat rejection of 556 kw (31614 Btu/mn) and an Alternator heat rejection of 27.7 Kw would it be possible to utilize this heat to generate power in a turbine? This would make the overall efficiency of the generator much higher and the whole idea a lot more feasible. I realize that some of the heat would have to be used to heat the WVO, but I am sure there would still be a lot of heat left over. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Here is the .pdf page with the generator specs. http://www.gensetcentral.com/XS650U.PDF Aidan Wilkins Co-Owner MotorKote of Canada (519)-768-0948 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Inkjet cartridges up to 80% off. HP, Epson, Lexmark--we have your brand. Free shipping on every order to the U.S. and Canada! Excellent service. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/QWB0QC/.eUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Researchers find new metal combination forcheaperproduction of hydrogen as fuel
I really like the idea of producing H2 and Meth that this method proposes. It would be a great source of Bio-Methanol for other processes as well as supplying H2 for various applications (think stationary fuel cells for backup power generation). James Slayden On Thu, 3 Jul 2003, Greg and April wrote: True, but, this method also gives of CO2 as well as the H2. These two together, are precursors for Methanol which is a basic feedstock for many of the common chemicals made / used today, in the petrochemical industry. With the right catalyst, H2 and CO2 can be made into a multitude of different products ( including gasoline ). I know, I said the bad G word, but, let's face it, this world is not going to get of it's habit over night. One thing about this method, is that by altering the metal catalyst a bit, you produce CH4 -- methane, which is another petrochemical feedstock, as well as the H2 and CO2. I think that in the future, that if any petrochemical wants to truly be green, this might be one of the way they will do it, for their raw feedstock. Ethanol has a few things that detract from it as a feedstock, namely a higher carbon to hydrogen ratio, not much, but, enough to cause an increase in cost, of manufacture, because of the need to do something with it, be it getting rid of it or collecting it for other purposes. Another problem with ethanol, is it's affinity for water, the added cost of denaturing, and the denaturing materials themselves, all of which may be unsuitable for feedstock purposes. On the other hand, the CO2 and H2 or the CO2, H2, and CH4 ( depending on the catalyst and what the final product is to be ) would be a good starting feedstock. Greg H. - Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 23:24 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Researchers find new metal combination forcheaperproduction of hydrogen as fuel Greg and April wrote: True, but, this speeds the process, way up from what I understand. Greg H. I ran an experiment with anaerobic hydrogen production from a sugar solution many years ago. It works just like methanogenesis. If you want more hydrogen, or want it in a hurry, build a larger digester. . . I abandoned the project because fermentation into ethanol produces a fuel that is much easier to handle. There's a bit less energy involved in hydrogen production, but the need for gas compression narrows that gap considerably. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] No need for conservation?
I agree that B100 in any application is a great idea, but most people are just not there yet, nor are there the clean high milage diesels in any great numbers in the US (but we can hope on the Lupo!!). Personally I am waiting for the diesel Jeep Liberty this fall. James Slayden On Thu, 3 Jul 2003, Ken Provost wrote: On Thursday, July 3, 2003, at 10:40 AM, James Slayden wrote: I seriously don't think that even a diesel truck (or SUV) running on B100 getting 20 (or less) mpg could do better in consumption or emissions, only the TDI running B100 besting this. Now when diesel hybrids and high milage diesels come out int the US, that will be a different story. My main concern has always been CO2 rather than emissions, in keeping with the view that humans get what's coming to them if they choose to live in cities, whereas CO2 (yes,yes, I know about acid rain :-)) affects the whole planet. In that sense, crappy biodiesel mileage can still be better than good petro mileage -K Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Click Here! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Brain fart. Any comments
I've never understood why cogeneration can't be used in car engines, but in community power plants, I had thought is was not uncommon. It is also an assumption that some fuel cell dreamers make (that they will use cogeneration) to come up with some of their better efficiency numbers. On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 11:49:40 -0400, you wrote: Hello, first of all this is just a brain fart. I was toying with the idea of community supplied power from a diesel generator running on WVO. I have located several large generators. The one I was toying with was a 650Kw that uses 174 L/h at 100% load. @ $.20 a litre for WVO the electricity price would have to be .08 Kw/h with a 20.00 month service fee like we have now. This is unlikely to work since Ontario has capped the electricity at .043 Kw/h. But now for the brain fart. With an exhaust temperature of 932 deg Fahrenheit and an engine heat rejection of 556 kw (31614 Btu/mn) and an Alternator heat rejection of 27.7 Kw would it be possible to utilize this heat to generate power in a turbine? This would make the overall efficiency of the generator much higher and the whole idea a lot more feasible. I realize that some of the heat would have to be used to heat the WVO, but I am sure there would still be a lot of heat left over. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Here is the .pdf page with the generator specs. http://www.gensetcentral.com/XS650U.PDF Aidan Wilkins Co-Owner MotorKote of Canada (519)-768-0948 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save on Coral Calcium. Get Better Health and Stronger Bones. Seen on TV http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid-2805lp=calcium2.asp http://us.click.yahoo.com/9gf46B/EfUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Researchers find new metal combination forcheaperproduction of hydrogen as fuel
Whatever happened to the talk of Hythane that I kept hearing? This deliberate mixture of Hydrogen and natural gas was mentioned to me by several people as one of the fuels of the near-future. http://www.hydrogencomponents.com/hythane.html On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 09:10:39 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: I really like the idea of producing H2 and Meth that this method proposes. It would be a great source of Bio-Methanol for other processes as well as supplying H2 for various applications (think stationary fuel cells for backup power generation). James Slayden Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save on Coral Calcium. Get Better Health and Stronger Bones. Seen on TV http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid-2805lp=calcium2.asp http://us.click.yahoo.com/9gf46B/EfUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: [renewable-energy] Wood-To-Electricity
I did not research how old some of the plants were. What I did do, within the last week, was talk to a retired engineer who lived in the area. He reported to me what I have already written. He also said that emissions didn't seem to be an issue, that scrubbing was excellent (in his view). This also was something that I ran across at the same time as the nation faces that dastardly waste dead wood and brush fuel in our forest that has all the pesky energy in it and, gosh, we can't figure out what to do with it. But we do know that, (apparently, judging from what Ive seen), we're going to continue building houses from combustibles and then wringing our hands when fire approaches or destroys those houses. While we're at it, we're going to see to it that insurance carriers are less than communicative about offering any discount for building in an unconventional fire-preventive way. So, you're welcome for the reference. The plants may be old, but the relevance is still in the here-and-now. If California has lots of wood, and other combustible waste and plenty of need for electricity, then let's look at the two issues as connected. On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 06:56:41 -0700, you wrote: Hey, THANKS for the old news! LOL Those four plants have been there for over 10 years now! But the link is a handy reference. http://www.covantaenergy.com/energy/biomass.php4 I was just in Oroville, one of the four sites listed, and a resident told me that in the past, waste wood that had been cleared or cut down but not used was piled up in the forests, making them hard to pass through, and then burned in the winter if possible. Now the wood could be used in the generator, and tree trimmers tended to park their trucks in the generator's yard, as that's where they would bring their waste at the end of the day anyway. This person told me that in the past they'd have to pay to dispose of such waste, but now they'd get paid for it. Don't know how accurate this was. One example we discussed was a type of pine that wasn't much good for building or burning (BTU too low). Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save up to 80% on top-quality inkjet cartridges and get your order fast! FREE shipping on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. Shop at Myinks.com! http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/v2G7ND/KfUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] started out in western australia
l've just started in bio-diesel brewing, l'm wanting help in setting up a home brew kit,can anyone recommend systems? best mixing options [mixed pump or the old drill with a prop method?] system designs welcome plus photos and tips would be most welcome. also how would l find suppliers in my part of the world for methonal and other chemicals needed. regards out there steve perks Welcome Steve. If you haven't been there already: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor.html Biodiesel processors Mike Pelly's new processor Foolproof method processors The touchless processor Continuous reactors Biodiesel technology Simon's guide to building a biodiesel mixer Ian's vacuum biodiesel processor Chuck Ranum's biodiesel processor How to make a cone-bottomed processor Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save up to 80% on top-quality inkjet cartridges and get your order fast! FREE shipping on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. Shop at Myinks.com! http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/v2G7ND/KfUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Seems kinda fishy that Bushy missed that physical exam: wasBring them on!
Is anyone familiar with President Bush's military service record ?? http://www.motherjones.com/news/outfront/2003/02/ma_217_01.html --- MH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wednesday it was We didn't ask for this war, even though he did everything but beg for it. Thursday it was Bring them on. Brave words when it's not his life in the gun sights. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/07/03/national1535EDT0647.DTL Democrats assail Bush's 'bring them on' comment ALEX ORTOLANI, Associated Press Writer (07-03) 15:04 PDT CONCORD, N.H. (AP) -- Is anyone familiar with President Bush's military service record ?? ~~~ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save up to 80% on top-quality inkjet cartridges and get your order fast! FREE shipping on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. Shop at Myinks.com! http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/v2G7ND/KfUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Researchers find new metal combination for cheaper production of hydrogen as fuel
A reformer is what many fuel cells use, so that they can use a heavier fuel than H2, but it generally comes at a cost of decreased efficiency. On the other hand, fuel cells that run 'hot' like Solid Oxide Fuel cells, are hot enough that they don't need a separate reformer, and can even use methane, and NG. They are experimenting with some that will even use ultra-low sulfur diesel -- I am personally interested to see how bio-diesel would work in these. Greg H. - Original Message - From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 01:52 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Researchers find new metal combination for cheaper production of hydrogen as fuel Catalysts made of nickel and aluminum produce hydrogen but also produce methane, an unwanted pollutant. By adding more tin to the combination, the production of methane was halted, while the production of hydrogen was increased, Dumesic said. This is a big deal, to me. I wonder if or how something like it could work with biodiesel or ethanol, allowing them to be reformed onboard and used in an H2 fuel cell? Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save up to 80% on top-quality inkjet cartridges and get your order fast! FREE shipping on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. Shop at Myinks.com! http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/v2G7ND/KfUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Researchers find new metal combination forcheaperproduction of hydrogen as fuel
- Original Message - From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 09:19 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Researchers find new metal combination forcheaperproduction of hydrogen as fuel Thanks for the explanations. Wouldn't ethanol be a good end-goal if not a good feedstock? Keep this part of my explanation in mind; Ethanol has a few things that detract from it as a feedstock, namely a higher carbon to hydrogen ratio, not much, but, enough to cause an increase in cost, of manufacture, because of the need to do something with it, be it getting rid of it or collecting it for other purposes. And; Another problem with ethanol, is it's affinity for water, the added cost of denaturing, and the denaturing materials themselves, all of which may be unsuitable for feedstock purposes. While ethanol would be good for something's, like as a basic fuel, the taxation and denaturing are problems that would make it a poor feedstock - you basically have two choices, you denature it with something that may not be compatible with your chemical processes, or pay a drinkable ethanol tax which raises you overhead / lowers your profit margin -- there are ways around this, but, they amount to paying for a BATF agent to be on duty in your facility, not to mention a tremendous amount of paperwork ( personally I would just as soon avoid that, not that I have anything to hide, but, I just don't like the idea of having the Govt. looking over my shoulder any more than it already does ). This is one of the reasons I would rather work with methanol than with ethanol, despite the toxicity issue. Another issue is Why processes something when you are going to turn around and reprocess it? Ethanol is a larger molecule, if you don't need to make it in the first place then why do it? Go strait from basic feedstock of H2, CO2, and maybe CH4 and with the proper temps and catalysts, to a useable form, without any stopping along the way, you save time and money. In the end, it all depends on what you want the end product to be, if you want ethanol for is own properties, make ethanol. Greg H. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save on Coral Calcium. Get Better Health and Stronger Bones. Seen on TV http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid-2805lp=calcium2.asp http://us.click.yahoo.com/9gf46B/EfUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Brain fart. Any comments
If the 556 kw is the exhaust rejection you're forgetting and equal amount from the cooling system. Rule of thumb for internal combustion engine is that only about 1/3 of the power generated from the combustion goes to the driven load. Maybe 10% to friction and the rest disappears as heat. Ethan -Original Message- From: A Wilkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 11:50 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Brain fart. Any comments Hello, first of all this is just a brain fart. I was toying with the idea of community supplied power from a diesel generator running on WVO. I have located several large generators. The one I was toying with was a 650Kw that uses 174 L/h at 100% load. @ $.20 a litre for WVO the electricity price would have to be .08 Kw/h with a 20.00 month service fee like we have now. This is unlikely to work since Ontario has capped the electricity at .043 Kw/h. But now for the brain fart. With an exhaust temperature of 932 deg Fahrenheit and an engine heat rejection of 556 kw (31614 Btu/mn) and an Alternator heat rejection of 27.7 Kw would it be possible to utilize this heat to generate power in a turbine? This would make the overall efficiency of the generator much higher and the whole idea a lot more feasible. I realize that some of the heat would have to be used to heat the WVO, but I am sure there would still be a lot of heat left over. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Here is the .pdf page with the generator specs. http://www.gensetcentral.com/XS650U.PDF Aidan Wilkins Co-Owner MotorKote of Canada (519)-768-0948 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Ammonia as Fuel
Very interesting article, thx! I'm going to pass it on to the other groups where we were also getting feedback on the pros and cons of Ammonia as Fuel. I knew that the military was working on urine-as-fuel, and I always thought this was good. After all, their logic could be that men in the field sometimes don't have access to all the fuel and batteries they need, and they need reliable sustained electric power for various pieces of equipment. The military has been a driver of development of some advanced battery technologies, for this reason. In the meantime, if human waste has useable power, and if we need to process it anyway, why not use it for power? Well, I don't know if this article is trying to imply sourcing Ammonia from Urine, but the tie-in is not hard to make, whether or not they intended it, and they do mention Army needs. Albuquerque seems to be the location for more than one company doing this type of research. MM On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 18:34:50 -, you wrote: I hope this helps http://www.asc2002.com/oral_summaries/F/FO-01.PDF Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save up to 80% on top-quality inkjet cartridges and get your order fast! FREE shipping on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. Shop at Myinks.com! http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/v2G7ND/KfUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Researchers find new metal combinationforcheaperproduction of hydrogen as fuel
murdoch wrote: I abandoned the project because fermentation into ethanol produces a fuel that is much easier to handle. There's a bit less energy involved in hydrogen production, but the need for gas compression narrows that gap considerably. This is why I've been saying that it is not a foregone conclusion that H2 is the fuel of the future (as the POTUS and his advisers have apparently presumed to decide for us). I think POTUS has too many ties to the oil and gas industry to be objective in this case--hence the push for hydrogen, which will most likely be reformed from conventional fossil fuels. (The reforming technology will most likely be installed in present service stations.) In my view, we need diversity and locally controlled supplies. We need conservation, efficiency and a different mental paradigm. We need to think about the rest of humanity, who long for a Western standard of living, and we should align our plans with them in mind as well. I've been a hydrogen enthusiast for a very long time, but I just don't see the practicality of hydrogen as an energy carrier for most of the world. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Bring them on!
I had asked -- Is anyone familiar with President Bush's military service record ?? Thanks Kris for the link. I came across another but first a quote from former U.S. President Theodore Roosevelt -- To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public... Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else. -- Teddy Roosevelt, Kansas City Star, May 7, 1918 Has ABC covered this? NBC? CBS? (We won't even ask about Fox.) Why did Bill Clinton's draft dodging merit 13,641 major news stories, while GW Bush's desertion merit only 49? http://www.awolbush.com ~~ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Inkjet cartridges up to 80% off. HP, Epson, Lexmark--we have your brand. Free shipping on every order to the U.S. and Canada! Excellent service. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/QWB0QC/.eUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] started out in western australia
First go around? Start out on the cheap. You can put something together every bit as well as anyone else (even if you've never screwed a nut and bolt together before.) You'll learn a great deal, probably feel a bit self-accomplished and save yourself a couple of g's besides. If you've got the extra cash, there are a few home-brewers who could build one for you that accomodates everything from waste water treatment to alcohol recovery. But before anyone goes in depth on either side of that equation, you need to decide how much you have to spend. If you're too poor or just don't see the sense in giving your cash away when you may be capable of accomplishing the same thing for a fraction (large fraction) of the price, then you need to prepare yourself for the sweat equity part of the program (not much sweat compared to the monetary savings). It's possible to take the time and blueprint a poor man's system, calculate the rough costs and ask Keith to publish it at JTF. Such a design could be offered in a free blueprint form for the do it yourselfer or the costly pre-fabbed form. Again, it just depends on how liquid you are. Up to this date, it's almost a secure bet that any kits offered at present don't address a number of areas and are going for an exhorbidant price. (See paragraph #1 again.) Just depends if you're a salaried engineer or a fixed income retiree I suppose. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: steve perks [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 10:40 AM Subject: [biofuel] started out in western australia l've just started in bio-diesel brewing, l'm wanting help in setting up a home brew kit,can anyone recommend systems? best mixing options [mixed pump or the old drill with a prop method?] system designs welcome plus photos and tips would be most welcome. also how would l find suppliers in my part of the world for methonal and other chemicals needed. regards out there steve perks - Yahoo! Mobile - Check compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Bring them on!
Why did Bill Clinton's draft dodging merit 13,641 major news stories, while GW Bush's desertion merit only 49? http://www.awolbush.com There are several working theories on that. The first is that Bill Clinton wasn't exactly prone to playing by the established rules and left a long list of malcontents along the wayside. The other is that generically speaking (perhaps genetically?) persons prone to democratic tendencies are less prone towards antagonistic behaviors. As a general rule they have an awareness as to the frailties and foibles of humans, themselves included. On the other hand, those of less than democratic persuasion are more prone to ride roughshod on anything or anyone, being largly more sympathetic to their own condition (or state/status) and less empathetic to the conditions of others. Analysis at any level, macro- or micro-, will yield these differentials. That's why there are two parties in the US - two separate belief systems. One works on the principle that everyone does better when everyone does better. The other works on the principle that if I do well I can help (or choose not to help) others do better. Couple the individualistic driven mindset with every fear and paranoia that the human mind can muster and you end up with a radical, right-wing, conservative, cut throat, no-holds-barred political fraction (not mis-spelled). Democrats, no different than environmentalists, are going to have to take the gloves off and essentially become just as cut throat as the rabid right, albeit perhaps a good bit more savvy. The idea of continually compromising' one half of whatever fraction of pie remains eventually leaves all the benefits derived from the pie in one group's possesion and the other group starving. Unfortunately, too many want to sup at the manor house and are willing to compromise away anything in order to obtain such a seat (media, politicians, you name it) rather than retaining their integrity and supping with the field help. Their bellies could be equally as full, but there's no gold or notoriety at that level. Did I mention having been solicited by Tom Delay's office last month? Three hundred bucks would have earned me the opportunity to sit in focus groups discussing public policy and a possible meeting with the vice-president? For $300 I could help effect public policy. For those who truly understand how this (US) government was designed to work, tell me how such pandering hits you? Of course, I was told, a contribution is not mandatory to participate. (Just that my voice won't be heard unless I grease the greasy palms of Delay or Cheney.) No thanks. I'll sit here with the rest of the ants (putting my 300 bucks to better use) and keep working to topple the elephants. Feast aplenty once the bastards are down. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: MH [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 6:59 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Bring them on! I had asked -- Is anyone familiar with President Bush's military service record ?? Thanks Kris for the link. I came across another but first a quote from former U.S. President Theodore Roosevelt -- To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public... Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else. -- Teddy Roosevelt, Kansas City Star, May 7, 1918 Has ABC covered this? NBC? CBS? (We won't even ask about Fox.) Why did Bill Clinton's draft dodging merit 13,641 major news stories, while GW Bush's desertion merit only 49? http://www.awolbush.com ~~ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Inkjet cartridges up to 80% off. HP, Epson, Lexmark--we have your brand. Free shipping on every order to the U.S. and Canada! Excellent service. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/QWB0QC/.eUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] OT: metalistservs
I'll try to be brief :-) I've noticed that on most of the listservs I've been involved with, mention of topics from the other listservs was considered OT. It just got me thinkin, are there metalistservs that just add the contents of some number of other listservs, to create something where you talk about what Links em all? I did a Google search on metalistserv and got ZERO hits -- always an ominous sign. Anyway, if they exist, I want in otherwise, you first heard it here :-) -K Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Inkjet cartridges up to 80% off. HP, Epson, Lexmark--we have your brand. Free shipping on every order to the U.S. and Canada! Excellent service. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/QWB0QC/.eUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] OT: metalistservs
On Saturday 05 July 2003 11:55 am, Ken Provost wrote: I'll try to be brief :-) I've noticed that on most of the listservs I've been involved with, mention of topics from the other listservs was considered OT. It just got me thinkin, are there metalistservs that just add the contents of some number of other listservs, to create something where you talk about what Links em all? I did a Google search on metalistserv and got ZERO hits -- always an ominous sign. Anyway, if they exist, I want in otherwise, you first heard it here :-) -K Good idea, but I would not want to wade thru even more to get the gems! The idea I think that has relevance to us is setting up a Wiki for Biodiesel: this is a user-editable site, is starting to become more common. (Google it for more info) Doug Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save on Coral Calcium. Get Better Health and Stronger Bones. Seen on TV http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid-2805lp=calcium2.asp http://us.click.yahoo.com/9gf46B/EfUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Riello burner non-information
Damian Mark, This addy might be a bit more navigable. http://www.rielloburners.com/cgi-bin/burners/riello/init.do I couldn't find a front or back door into any product descriptions at the other url. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 3:54 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Riello burner non-information Hi Mark, the company that sells the burners is Riello website www.riellogroup.com dD biofuel@yahoogroups.com wrote: Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save on Coral Calcium. Get Better Health and Stronger Bones. Seen on TV http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid-2805lp=calcium2.asp http://us.click.yahoo.com/9gf46B/EfUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Bulletin - July 2, 2003
On Thu, 3 Jul 2003 13:45:29 +0900, you wrote: FYI, FWIW: I love this Berkeley story, and the others about incentives for some states. I like these stories for several reasons, but since we discuss so much of the American political system here, let me point out that among other issues here is that, when municipalities and states can take some action on these matters, never mind the Federal goverment, it's a good thing. Not that it's a States' Rights issue exactly, as some sustainable energy issues might be, but it's still a great thing. I wish San Diego would take some more initiative. It's like we're sort of standing here half-waiting for the future to roll over us, on some of these issues. Berkeley Becomes Largest City in Country to Use B100 The City of Berkeley celebrated a milestone in June as officials announced the city has transitioned to 100 percent biodiesel (B100) in its diesel vehicles. Berkeley is the first city of its size in the US to switch to pure biodiesel. The City held a ceremony and exhibit to celebrate the occasion. The exhibit featured a variety of diesel vehicles from the Departments of Public Works, Parks, Fire, Police and Health and Human Services. ãThe City of Berkeley has a long history of innovation and as a leader in public policy,ä said City Manager Weldon Rucker. ãThe use of biodiesel fuel is yet another example.ä Berkley now uses B100 in more than 180 of the Cityâs diesel vehicles, representing 90 percent of its fleet of 200 diesel vehicles. The remaining 10 percent are fire department vehicles that will run on B100 when accommodations are made for delivering the fuel to the more remote fire stations throughout the city. ãLargely due to our towering success with B100 in the recycling trucks, the Berkeley City Council and six citizen advisory commissions strongly supported the cityâs switch,ä said Dave Williamson, operations manager for the Ecology Center in Berkeley. ãWith biodiesel Iâm able to switch to something that is not only an alternative fuel but is completely sustainable. For the first time in my 13 year career in recycling, Iâve had people leave their homes to thank me for using biodiesel. It has resonated loudly with Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save on Coral Calcium. Get Better Health and Stronger Bones. Seen on TV http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid-2805lp=calcium2.asp http://us.click.yahoo.com/9gf46B/EfUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] (fwd) DOE Awards $89M to Low-Income Weatherizing
Attn: Presidential Candidate Hakan Falk. Thought your team might need this info for your campaign: On Wed, 2 Jul 2003 15:48:51 -0700 (PDT), Green Bean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Energy Department Awards $89.4 Million to 19 States to Weatherize Homes of Low-Income Families Tue Jul 1, 3:17 PM ET To: National Desk, Energy Reporter Contact: Chris Kielich of the Department of Energy (news - web sites), 202-586-5806 WASHINGTON, July 1 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Secretary of Energy Spencer Abraham (news - web sites) announced today that the Department of Energy (DOE) will award $89.4 million to 19 states to improve the energy efficiency of the homes of low-income families under the department's Weatherization Assistance Program. The weatherization assistance grants being awarded to 19 states will save energy, lower energy costs and increase the comfort of the homes of thousands of families this year, Secretary Abraham said. Increased funding for the Weatherization Assistance Program is a priority for President Bush (news - web sites). The President's National Energy Plan recommends a $1.4 billion increase in funding for Weatherization over 10 years. Low-income families spend an average of 14 percent of their income on energy, compared with 3.5 percent for the average American. Weatherization reduces an average home's energy costs by $215 a year. The program gives a priority to low-income households with elderly members, people with disabilities and children. The Weatherization Assistance Program is administered through the states and 970 local agencies. Every state, the District of Columbia, the Navajo Nation and Inter Tribal Council of Arizona will receive weatherization grants this year. The awards announced today are for the 19 states that begin their weatherization year on July 1. The Congressional appropriation for the Weatherization Assistance Program is $223.5 million in FY 2003 which is expected to cover approximately 93,750 homes. The President has requested $288.2 million for FY 2004. The program performs energy audits to identify the most cost-effective measures for each home which typically include adding insulation, reducing air infiltration, servicing the heating and cooling systems and providing health and safety diagnostic services. For every dollar spent, weatherization returns $1.30 in energy savings over the life of the weatherized home. Other benefits include increased housing affordability, increased property values, job creation, lower owner and renter turnover and reduced fire risks. The Department of Energy's weatherization assistance funds provide training and technical assistance for additional weatherization investments from the Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Program of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (news - web sites), from utility public benefit funds and from other state and local sources. The grants being awarded today, and the President's weatherization request for FY 2004, are: -- State, FY 2003 Weatherization Grants, FY 2004 Presidential Request to Congress -- Arizona, $1,335,832, $2,019,324 -- Colorado, $5,384,059, $6,278,452 -- Georgia, $2,877,362, $4,108,421 -- Illinois, $13,605,888, $16,675,308 -- Kentucky, $4,441,020, $5,667,403 -- Maryland, $2,606,578, $3,653,632 -- Minnesota, $9,682,194, $11,183,475 -- Missouri, $5,898,363, $7,632,716 -- Nebraska, $2,450,834, $2,933,325 -- New Mexico, $1,876,873, $2,365,740 -- Nevada, $821,553, $1,174,134 -- North Carolina, $4,086,054, $5,833,152 -- North Dakota, $2,453,738, $2,855,037 -- Pennsylvania, $14,448,499, $18,125,148 -- South Dakota, $1,883,806, $2,227,235 -- Utah, $2,041,346, $2,406,242 -- Virginia, $3,946,656, $5,325,542 -- Wisconsin, $8,418,423, $9,841,518 -- Wyoming, $1,154,664, $1,325,189 More information on DOE's programs to improve the energy efficiency of buildings is available on DOE's Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy Network website at http://www.eren.energy.gov/buildings or by calling 1-800/DOE-3732. = Û¼¡`¡¼Û¿,üü,¿Û¼¡`¡¼Û¿Û¼¡`¡¼Û¿,üü,¿Û¼¡`¡¼Û¿ All-Energy News and Discussion http://groups.yahoo.com/group/All-Energy Û¼¡`¡¼Û¿,üü,¿Û¼¡`¡¼Û¿Û¼¡`¡¼Û¿,üü,¿Û¼¡`¡¼Û¿ __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com == THANK YOU FOR PARTICIPATING IN THE RENEWABLE ENERGY LIST. -- . Please feel free to send your input to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Join the list by sending a blank e-mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] . To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] . To view previous messages from the list, subscribe to a daily digest of the list, or stop receiving the list by e-mail (and read it on the Web), go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/list/renewable-energy . . This e-mail discussion list is managed by the American Wind Energy Association:
RE: [biofuel] Brain fart. Any comments
If you are going to build that large a system you should explore Brayton cycle with recovery. The textbooks claim 72% theoretical vs about 40 for the best diesel. ALso I would site my generation where I had a use for the heat. Heat a lot of space or water with the waste heat. Kirk -Original Message- From: Ethan Vos [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 2:20 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Brain fart. Any comments If the 556 kw is the exhaust rejection you're forgetting and equal amount from the cooling system. Rule of thumb for internal combustion engine is that only about 1/3 of the power generated from the combustion goes to the driven load. Maybe 10% to friction and the rest disappears as heat. Ethan -Original Message- From: A Wilkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 11:50 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Brain fart. Any comments Hello, first of all this is just a brain fart. I was toying with the idea of community supplied power from a diesel generator running on WVO. I have located several large generators. The one I was toying with was a 650Kw that uses 174 L/h at 100% load. @ $.20 a litre for WVO the electricity price would have to be .08 Kw/h with a 20.00 month service fee like we have now. This is unlikely to work since Ontario has capped the electricity at .043 Kw/h. But now for the brain fart. With an exhaust temperature of 932 deg Fahrenheit and an engine heat rejection of 556 kw (31614 Btu/mn) and an Alternator heat rejection of 27.7 Kw would it be possible to utilize this heat to generate power in a turbine? This would make the overall efficiency of the generator much higher and the whole idea a lot more feasible. I realize that some of the heat would have to be used to heat the WVO, but I am sure there would still be a lot of heat left over. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Here is the .pdf page with the generator specs. http://www.gensetcentral.com/XS650U.PDF Aidan Wilkins Co-Owner MotorKote of Canada (519)-768-0948 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.495 / Virus Database: 294 - Release Date: 6/30/2003 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Inkjet cartridges up to 80% off. HP, Epson, Lexmark--we have your brand. Free shipping on every order to the U.S. and Canada! Excellent service. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/QWB0QC/.eUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] OT: metalistservs
I'll try to be brief :-) I've noticed that on most of the listservs I've been involved with, mention of topics from the other listservs was considered OT. That's not the case here Ken, cross-posts are welcome. MM has discussed this quite a lot, among others. There are some problems, one being that blindly hitting auto-reply might not have the expected results - the reply will only reach the originator if you're a member of that group too. So cross-posters find themselves doing a lot of to-ing and fro-ing. Cross-posting between just two lists (say Biofuel and Biofuels-biz) can quickly become too complicated. Quite easy to make a simple metalist, but it would be mostly read-only - again, responses might not go where intended. If you tried to make it read-and-write the component lists would become redundant, and you'd replicate the same problem with cross-posting between metalists. It just got me thinkin, are there metalistservs that just add the contents of some number of other listservs, to create something where you talk about what Links em all? I did a Google search on metalistserv and got ZERO hits -- always an ominous sign. Anyway, if they exist, I want in otherwise, you first heard it here :-) -K Doug wrote: Good idea, but I would not want to wade thru even more to get the gems! The idea I think that has relevance to us is setting up a Wiki for Biodiesel: this is a user-editable site, is starting to become more common. (Google it for more info) Doug But no email function. So if you're interested in building up your own resources, or even in keeping copies of what you write yourself, it takes at least one extra step, which few people will take the trouble over. Same problem with all web-based discussions, bulletin boards, etc - no continuity, no memory. On-line search doesn't really address that problem. I'm not sure whether a biodiesel wiki would add much, other than just to scatter biodiesel discussion content over even more (unlinked) resources than at present. Apart from the above-mentioned minor difficulties with cross-posting I don't see any problems with multiple mailing lists, it's still by far the best option IMO. See Deleting: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=21700list=BIOFUEL Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save up to 80% on top-quality inkjet cartridges and get your order fast! FREE shipping on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. Shop at Myinks.com! http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/v2G7ND/KfUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] OT: metalistservs
on 7/4/03 7:15 PM, doug foskey at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The idea I think that has relevance to us is setting up a Wiki for Biodiesel: this is a user-editable site, is starting to become more common. (Google it for more info) Doug I must be missing something -- I COULDNT figure out how the thang works! WikiWiki sandbox, but I wasn't able to make any of my rantings appear. Anyway, it seems much more anarchistic than a listserv -- kinda like graffiti on a wall -K Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save up to 80% on top-quality inkjet cartridges and get your order fast! FREE shipping on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. Shop at Myinks.com! http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/v2G7ND/KfUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
