Re: [biofuels-biz] Malaysian palm diesel
Hi Ong Its Idul Fitri (Muslim feat after the fast) vacation time in Indonesia and the reason for the delay in getting back to you. Our office reopens next Monday December 8. Im curious why you are using the most expensive palm oil derivative to make biodiesel! Maybe CPO or getting WVO from local food processors would make more sense. Are there rejects, tailings etc available that you can process. I dont believe importing other oils would be a good idea at all. You have transportation and tax costs as well as palm oil traditionally costing 30% or so less than soy. Best regards, Ken --- gumpon prateepchaikul [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Ken In Malaysia they are making biodiesel from olein palm oil and the final product is clear as beta carotene is removed during the process of making olein from crude palm oil as we did here in Thailand. But if biodiesel is produced from crude palm oil the colour is off course quite red because of beta carotene in it and we can remove by the method as you mentioned. Right here in our department we can make mehtyl ester from both crude palm oil and mixed crude palm oil with the percentage of methyl ester up to 98 % (in small batch). Regards Gumpon SNIP __ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Australia: Government fails ethanol, again
Fwd from Mike Jureidini, Australian Farmers Fuel Senator Lyn Allison Australian Democrats Energy and Resources Spokesperson MEDIA RELEASE 03/857 Government fails ethanol, again Ethanol labelling will go ahead under the Fuel Quality Standards Amendment Bill, passed in the Senate despite being misleading, unfair and anti-competitive, the Australian Democrats said today. Democrats' Energy and Resources spokesperson, Senator Lyn Allison, said, By singling out ethanol blended petrol for labelling and ignoring harmful alternative additives such as toluene, benzene and xylene, the Government is just feeding the paranoia that's been created by the Labor Party. Labor's campaign against ethanol has had a hugely damaging effect on the industry and consumer confidence and the Government has failed to defend its many benefits or show any leadership on this issue. Ethanol acts as an oxygenate that makes fuel burn cleaner and more efficiently; it reduces carbon monoxide and harmful greenhouse gases; it is a renewable source of fuel; and it provides rural and regional communities with job and wealth creation prospects. Senator Allison said, Democrat amendments to the bill would have introduced a 'star rating' scheme for all automotive fuels sold in Australia, similar to the efficiency rating on new cars. The Government had an opportunity to get a very important message across about the relative effects of fuel emissions on public health and the environment and the relevant fuel efficiency, giving consumers the information they need to make informed decisions. The risk of car damage from ethanol blended petrol has not been demonstrated and to go ahead with ethanol warning labels will further contribute to this negative campaign. The Democrats also reiterated their call for ethanol blended petrol to be mandated, phased in over a realistic time frame and a re-thinking of the wrong-headed push by Treasury to impose excise on alternative fuels from 2008. It is time to show leadership; it is time to show the way, Senator Allison concluded. Contact: Vara Szajkowski 0408 056 167 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] ARGENTINA: The catastrophe of GM soya
See also: Round-up Ready Sudden Death Syndrome Prof. Joe Cummins finds evidence that Roundup Ready causes sudden death and other diseases by boosting fusarium in the soil. 30/11/03 http://www.i-sis.org.uk/RRSD.php Ten reasons to NOT use Roundup http://metalab.unc.edu/london/pesticide-education/NCAMP.RoundUp.information Greenpeace Report - Not Ready for Roundup: Glyphosate Fact Sheet http://archive.greenpeace.org/geneng/reports/gmo/gmo009.htm New Study Links Monsanto's Roundup to Cancer http://www.organicconsumers.org/Monsanto/glyphocancer.cfm http://www.greenleft.org.au/current/561p20.htm ARGENTINA: The catastrophe of GM soya BY ANN SCHOLL FACUNDO ARRIZABALAGA Argentina was once the world's granary. Now starving children haunt the villas miseria - shanty towns - and cartoneros (unemployed) families roam the streets looking for leftovers to eke a living from. Over half the population live below the poverty line. Ever since Christopher Columbus arrived on the coast of the Bahamas in 1492, Latin America's wealth has been drained for the benefit of Europe and the United States. Bolivia's silver mines were ransacked leaving behind poverty and destitution. Gold from Mexico, Peru and Brazil filled the banks in Europe. Venezuela was turned into a coca plantation for export and the West Indies were transformed into sugar islands of slavery. More than 500 years later, the colonisers have changed, but the colonisation and plunder continue in the name of globalisation. Argentina, once boasting a diverse agricultural sector, is being transformed into a land of soya-bean monoculture. In the last 10 years, the amount of soya grown has nearly tripled, according to World Bank's figures, and it is almost 100% genetically modified (GM). It was the International Monetary Fund's (IMF) prize pupil, Argentina's President Carlos Menem, who signed the contracts with the agribusiness giants Monsanto and Cargill to go the soya way at the beginning of the 1990s. The contracts were entered into without the participation of Congress and without a public debate. Since then, Argentina has become the second largest GM soya producer in the world, after the United States. The countryside is being left empty as the farm workers' role in nurturing the land and crops is displaced by aeroplanes and agribusiness infrastructure. Migration to the cities has risen at an alarming rate: 300,000 farmers have deserted the countryside and more than 500 villages have been abandoned, or are on the road to disappearance. Agribusiness GM soya farming requires agriculture without culture or people. As a consequence, the villas miseria on the outskirts of the cities are mushrooming with the arriving unemployed agricultural workers. Dusty ashes are left as the earth is intoxicated with agrochemicals to harvest Monsanto's patented seeds, which are genetically modified to be resistant to the company's herbicide, Round Up. Previously unknown illnesses are appearing as people are exposed to highly toxic herbicides, which include Agent Orange, the defoliant used by the US military to devastate Vietnam during the 1960s and '70s, and others that contain paraquat, which can corrode metal, and glyphosate. Floods without precedence are taking place as forests are cut down to make way for soya crops. In the high-mountain provinces of Salta and Juyuy, on the border of Bolivia, the subtropical Yungas region is being deforested to make space for soya plantations. Greenpeace has warned that in five years, the ancient cloud forest will be extinct. In April, the city of Santa Fe was flooded: 140,000 people were evacuated, sections of the city were submerged and several people died. Thousands lost their homes and possessions as they fled for their lives. Alongside this destruction, Monsanto's profits in Argentina almost doubled, from US$326 million in 1998 to $584 million in 2001. Because Monsanto holds the patent to Round Up Ready soya seeds, farmers are dependent on the corporation to provide them. They cannot legally develop their own varieties of the patented seed. Never missing an opportunity to expand its profits, Monsanto subsidiary Cargill Seeds and the ChevronTexaco oil company have teamed up with the Argentine Association of Direct Seed Producers to promote soya as the solution to the malnutrition problem in the country. Their aim is to integrate the bean into the Argentine diet and change people's eating habits to suit their business interests. The Soja Solidaria (Solidarity Soya) project is ruthlessly promoting GM soya as a viable alternative to traditional forms of nutrition among the poorest communities, which is creating a nutritional apartheid. Soja Solidaria encourages soya producers to donate 1% of their soya production to comedores - eating halls for the unemployed, and in public schools, hospitals, neighbourhood centres and old people's homes. The organisation uses community
[biofuels-biz] Expert Pans Ethanol
Patzek's quite right about the large amounts of fossil-fuels used in the production of maize and wheat - industrialized monocrops of maize and wheat, that is. But it says long-term sustainability is one of his research interests, so he ought to know that industrialized monocrops aren't the only option. Maize and wheat can be and are sustainably and efficiently produced with little or no fossil-fuel inputs. Anyway, maize and wheat are not the ideal crops for ethanol production. But industrialized monocrops of maize and wheat are the ideal crops for ethanol production if you happen to be Archer Daniels Midland, Monsanto, or Cargill. What's this got to do with farm-scale or small-scale community-level ethanol production from whatever range of feedstocks is locally available? - or more likely general biofuels production, not just ethanol? Nothing at all. So much for Big Ethanol. Big Soy - er, sorry, Big Biodiesel won't be too different. What puzzles me about all this is that it depends on high and probably increasing use of the very resource it's supposed to be replacing, a resource that's running out, which is the rationale for the biofuels in the first place. Am I missing something here? :-/ Keith http://www.nfu.ca/Releases/Patzek_ethanol_release.rel.pdf CANADIAN NATIONAL FARMERS UNION National Office 2717 Wentz Ave. Saskatoon, Sask. S7K 4B6 Tel (306) 652-9465 Fax (306) 664-6226 Expert Pans Ethanol SASKATOON, Sask.-Ethanol production from corn is a fossil-energy-losing proposition is the conclusion of Professor Tad Patzek who is a petroleum and chemical engineer at University of California, Berkeley. Patzek was speaking as part of a four-person panel on ethanol at the NFU National Convention in Saskatoon this past weekend. Patzek outlined his extensive research designed to look under the hood of the complex ethanol production system in North America. In most facilities, ethanol is distilled from grain. That grain is produced using large amounts of fossil fuels. With detailed data and references to numerous comparable studies, Patzek demonstrated that the actual energy used to produce a corn feedstock-energy contained in fuels, fertilizers, transport, machinery construction, etc.-exceeds that amount of energy available when the ethanol is burned. Further, all speakers on the panel agreed that the energy balance for wheat-based ethanol would be even less favorable than the energy balance for corn-based ethanol. Patzek's analysis shows that the quantity of fossil fuels needed to produce a wheat or corn feedstock would exceed the amount of fossil fuels replaced by the resulting ethanol. A 'negative energy balance' means that burning ethanol increases, not decreases, total fossil fuel consumption. Patzek also outlined the high water use of ethanol production plants and their harmful environmental emissions. He summed up by saying that in our push to produce ethanol: We have: - Burned more fossil fuels than the energy content of the ethanol from corn; - Degraded and eroded soil on millions of acres; - Polluted surface and groundwater with nitrates, herbicides, pesticides, and ethanol waste; - Polluted air with CO, NOx , SO2 , VOC, etc. [Carbon-monoxide, Nitrous Oxide, Sulphur Dioxide, Volatile Organic Compounds, etc.] ; - Continued to waste billions [of dollars] of taxpayers' money; and - Devised a terrible solution of air quality problems. Tad Patzek is Professor of Geo-Engineering at the Department of Civil and Environmental Planning, University of California, Berkeley. He holds a Masters of Science and a Doctorate in Chemical Engineering from the Silesian Technical University, Gliwice, Poland. His research combines analytical and numerical modeling of petroleum flows. His other research interests involve long-term sustainability, the production of ethanol from corn, and the use of hydrogen as an energy carrier. He is co-author of over 100 research papers and reports. The NFU's National Convention focused on climate change, energy, and agriculture. Delegates from across Canada learned and debated about the effects of climate change, energy alternatives and conservation, and the use of energy in our food production and transportation systems. For More information, please contact: Stewart Wells, NFU President: (306) 773-6852 Darrin Qualman, NFU Executive Secretary: (306) 652-9465 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe
Re: [biofuel] Re: Ethanol, Alcohol, Veg Oil
I really do not understand this story when you say changing from petrol to something else. Are we talking about diesel engines or petrol / gasoline engines ? Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: shawstafari [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 2:01 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Ethanol, Alcohol, Veg Oil How can a diesel engine run on ethanol ? When the book comes out it will be much more eloquent, but for now all I can say is that the diesel engine run on 90%+ ethanol by modifying the injection pump, injection nozzles, pistons, gaskets, and other standard modifications (like compression and filters) when going from petrol to an alternative. We will be addressing this issue in our book Alcohol Can Be a Gas!. It goes to publishing in March. Dave Shaw Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Ethanol, Alcohol, Veg Oil
Thanks a lot Keith. I have the advantage to have a small test - diesel engine ( 13 Hp Kubota ). A few years ago, I bought this thing for other purposes, but now I use it for testing, so if there are new developments to try out, I can do it for you and the others, without risking my car engine. Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 2:47 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Ethanol, Alcohol, Veg Oil Oops, sorry, forgot these two: Alcohol in diesel engines -- Have technology, will travel -- policy permitting ... India too can gradually implement alcohol fuel technology for automobiles -- first, as a blend in petrol cars, and subsequently as a sole fuel for both petrol and diesel vehicles. See: Alcohol-diesel technology: Recent advances http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/businessline/2001/07/11/stories/04 1167mu.htm http://www.nf-2000.org/secure/Other/F447.htm Ethanol as Transport Fuel in Sweden In 1996, there will be approx. 300 heavy duty buses and trucks on the Swedish roads running on ethanol. Most of them are inner city buses using neat ethanol with additive for improved ignition. Some run on a diesel/ethanol mixture in fleet tests at five locations. Total consumption of ethanol to the buses will be about 12 000 m3 95 % ethanol/year. Best Keith Hi all, How can a diesel engine run on ethanol ? Hi Pieter The Manual for the Home and Farm Production of Alcohol Fuel, Mathewson, 1980, Chapter 3, DIESEL ENGINES: Contrary to the opinion of most experts, diesel engines can be run on pure alcohol. The main problem is in the lubrication of the injectors. This is solved by the addition of 5-20% vegetable oil (or other suitable lubricant) to the alcohol. It is also possible to make a diesel gasohol with up to 80% alcohol. Since alcohol and oil will not mix when water is present, both the alcohol and the oil must be anhydrous. Different engines may also require adjustment of the metering pump for optimum performance. Diesel engines, especially turbocharged diesels, may also be run with an alcohol/water injection system as described later. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_manual/manual3.html Buses running on pure ethanol Heavy vehicles with converted diesel engines are being run on pure ethanol, with a spark-improving additive. Major environmental benefits are less greenhouse gases and a reduction in exhaust fumes. There are about 400 ethanol-powered buses in Sweden, 250 of which operate in central Stockholm. Successful trials have also been conducted using ethanol-powered heavy trucks and refuse disposal vehicles. http://www.miljobilar.stockholm.se/english/branslen_etanol.asp Ethanol-Diesel Blends: A Step Towards A Bio-based Fuel For Diesel Engines, Hansen, Lyne, Qin, 2001 - includes some information ethanol corrosion, flash points, separation, etc. http://www.age.uiuc.edu/oree/e-diesel/Publications/infopub.pdf Fuel-Cycle Energy and Emission Impacts of Ethanol-Diesel Blends in Urban Buses and Farming Tractors, Wang, Saricks, Lee, 2003 http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/TA/280.pdf http://www.afdc.doe.gov/altfuel/ediesel_general.html AFDC - E-diesel General Information Ventura Bus Lines On 1 December 2000, Ventura Bus Lines introduced the first two totally renewable fuelled buses into Australia. These buses operate from 100% ethanol, made from molasses, a by-product of sugar milling by CSR Distilleries. The ethanol is produced in the sugar belt of Queensland, Sarina, and shipped to Yarraville for refining, then delivered to our South Oakleigh Depot in the same fashion as diesel. Why Ventura Introduced Ethanol Powered Buses 1. To safeguard our air quality - up to 50% of the Greenhouse gases, CO2 are eliminated. 2. Reducing use of fossil fuels - sugar cane is renewable unlike Diesel, CNG and LPG. 3. Adding value to waste product - ethanol is fermenting material that is otherwise dumped. 4. Creating rural employment - through the growing of sugar cane. 5. Replacing imported fuel - purchasing an Australian made fuel. The ethanol buses are providing fantastic publicity for public transport. The launch was publicised on TV channels 2,7,10 and SBS news, as well as ABC, 3AW and all major FM radio stations.
[biofuel] Battery EV - correction!
Thank Another Member ToMaSjKn who had corrected me in his mail The charging time is NOT limited by the power available for the charger but by battery chemistry. there is no escape from that He is right, due to the chemistry of the battery. The fastest they can be fully charged will be at least one hour. And no need to have multiple chargers because the wiring circuitry, but need bigger amps to charge the battery faster. And some EV did put their chargers in the front of the EVs. One charger is enough! The current Avcon standard EV charger has following comments from EV yahoo groups The evi ics-200B conductive AVCON (above) is expensive to buy and repair, gives errors too easily that denies power to the EV driver. Air Quality Management Districts choose this overly complicated and expensive AVCON charging head because they use tax payer money and do not drive Electric Had located the new China EV factory for a 4 door EV ZhongQiang Power-tech Co.,Ltd http://www.zqpt.com You could not find the picture or information of this EV from their website yet. Interested parties can contact them for more details! Powered by Li-Polymer Battery. Hailed in Chinese media as the solution for a cleaner future! Range: 316 KM = 189.6miles Max Speed: 120KM = 74.4 Miles Charging time: 1- 4 hours depends on what types of chargers e.g.They have 80 Li-Polymer batteries, @3.7V/100amps, weight 3 kgs=6.6 lbs 10 batteries in a string(battery pack), 8 strands in total. 420V/240 kgs = 529 lbs (All connected in series) From 110VAC or 220VAC outlets to inverter, output 42VDC. If we had a powerful charger to get a 100amps output, then it will take one hour to charge Small portable battery charger will take like 4 hours, because of the low amps! (FYI: Most of the batteries charge fast in the beginning, one hour will reach 90% capacity. But the last leg of charging is really slow and hard, only negative in circuit. And needs lower voltage which a regular charger will not fluctuate to meet this slow down requirement. So the last 5-10% is not 100% necessary to just wait there for another hour to fully charge. 90% is what the factory normally considers Full!) My rosy projection for 24 minutes based on powerful chargers was incorrect! The powerful amps has it's limitation, given up to the Chemistry of the made of the battery! And the factory is hoping to improve the batteries to get it smaller and lighter, to free the energy consumption of the EV. Li-Polymer batteries has no memory, so the factory suggested to charge the batteries whenever you reach a chargers. 30 minutes can give you back over 50% of capacity if you really could not wait for one hour. Go have a meal or go shopping, 30-60 minutes to let the EV charged up. Maybe a portable battery charger do not have greater amps, but we can have one with the EV. Then you can charge EV whenever you could find a AC outlet! So we are back to the original EV stage, waiting to improve batteries and hope the Organic solar chargers will be added to EV soon. So EV can be self-charged under the sun, and hope we have more charging stations available. And maybe EV makers can make the battery split into smaller portable battery packs. So in emergency, we can remove the used battery packs and replace with fully charged one real fast! The option to have a Diesel/Electric car will be a good one! EV's is still a very good solution, electricity is the cheapest energy! Available almost everywhere! I will stick to EV's and waiting for the next generation PV to come to market! But where I can find a EV that can be recharged in one hour like this Chinese EV? The factory is too far away! So the wait is on again, to find a car that is workable! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Methanol Ethanol
Keith Addison said: Not with the current processes, particularly not with WVO. There is work being done on this but nothing so far. Come on Dan, not so! Nothing so far? Mark just said this, as you know (in reply to you in fact): Keith, Name me one person who regularly uses ethanol and WVO to make biodiesel. Name me one person who regularly uses ehtanol and virgin oil to make BD. And I do mean person, not corporation. An individual, with a backyard setup, or a small co-op. 100 gal. batch or 100 gal/day continuous process. I guess you'll be hearing from Ken, I should think Mark can provide backup for what she said, as usual, and there should be others on this list and other lists. Did you really imagine I'd be quoting you a corporation? :-) Perhaps I should have qualified my statement with a Practically before the nothing so far. If nobody with a home brew set up is able to do it reliably, and consistently, then it's not a practical solution, yet. Tell me Keith, have you ever made BD with Ethanol, either virgin oil or WVO? I haven't. Have you ever made BD at all Dan? To answer you, in a word, no. Ah-ha! you say, I knew it! But I don't know what that's supposed to prove - nothing, I'd say, it certainly doesn't gainsay my Not so! What difference does it make if I've made it or not? And what difference would it make if you've never made BD at all? It wouldn't mean you can't, or won't, nor that it can't be done, nor that you're not allowed to discuss it until you have made it, nor anything other than that you haven't made it yet. Anyway, when we started all this four and a half years ago, like many others we wanted to use ethanol instead of methanol, and we've been pushing towards that ever since, doing whatever we could to encourage it. It was here on this list that the Idaho method first emerged, after Aleks Kac unearthed it. Main reason for us is that you can make ethanol yourself, but not methanol, or not easily anyway - not something a 3rd World villager can do. But on the other hand there's usually a still of some kind not too far away, and if not there easily could be. Without ethanol, biodiesel makes that much less sense for 3rd World rural energy projects, and that's been our main focus all along. As Mark said, there's been a lot of progress since then, very largely thanks to Ken. A couple of weeks back Ken was talking about using wet ethanol, I believe you took part in that exchange. So did Todd, and so did I. This is what I said: We've also been working towards this, among other things, using acid-base, though in a bit of a different sort of way. The different bits of the different sort of way are done now and we'll be doing the ethanol bit soon. Got some anhydrous ethanol for initial tests, and I'll get a still going for further needs. The among other things is the crucial bit - among MANY other things, 16/24-7/7 for both of us but still there's always a lot that has to wait. But it'll be any time now, it'll get dumped on the front burner soon enough. I don't have a lot of anhydrous ethanol and I don't want to buy any more if I can help it, it's expensive, so for anything more than a few test batches I'll have to get the still properly set up and running. I've never run a still before. Have you? Haven't built the boiler yet either. Whole new ballgame. Then there's the matter of drying it. I can get hold of some 3A, but as Ken said there should be better solutions, and I have some ideas. It'll all take time. Everything does. That's okay, we do tend to get there in the end. Meanwhile, yes, you can make ethyl esters biodiesel as long as the oil is less than about 1ml titration, and if it's not you can deacidify it. That's all been well reported here. Keith Dan Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Brazil Ethanol
Thankyou Dave. Very interesting. Good for you! Schumacher didn't particularly write Small is Beautiful (Economics as if People Mattered) for the 3rd World. He developed the Appropriate Technology approach as an adjunct to appropriate economics (technology as if people mattered), also not particularly for the 3rd World, but that's about the only place you ever find either of them. The rich countries (industrialized nations or whatever, but I refuse to call them developed nations) are much too well defended. You're right, that's just what's going to happen with hydrogen. Unless people who fiddle with stuff in their backyards and back-40s do something about it. So how is it that in a democracy people don't have any effective say over how their tax dollars are used? Then it's not a democracy. I think H.D. Thoreau had the answer to that, didn't he? http://eserver.org/thoreau/civil.html Best Keith (I went to a Biocycle conference in MN last week and am not impressed). Why not? Please tell us more. The conference itself was quite astonishing. Put on by Biocycle magazine, a reliable source of news and technical information related to renewable energy from organics waste recycling, I was introduced to countless businessmen in the field, and to the latest in technology. Indeed I was impressed by many things including the incorporation of methane digesters into the cultural landscape of midwest dairy farmers and their environments. I was not impressed, however, by the feasibilty of bio-hydrogen production. I'm sure you are all aware of the debate over the upcoming trojan horse that is hydrogen (it appears friendly but when you look inside you'll find coal, natural gas and nuclear interests--currently 90% of commercial H2 is produced from natural gas). I was hoping that at this conference I wold learn about ways that hydrogen could be produced and managed by using local technology and local tools. This was not the case though my questions were well recieved by the speakers and even more by the audience (I made many friends). Being the only one under 30, and certainly the only one with dreadlocks, it would have been easy for them to toss out my questions as idealistic if they were not so well founded. I mentioned the appropriate technology approach, how we must solve the problems of rural societies before the problems of urban societies will be managed--they will be amplified under urban conditions (ideas borrowed from Small is Beautiful). With that in mind, I asked, how may I, as a farmer, use this technology? Will I have to rely on buying your materials and subcontracting construction? And once constructed will I have any additional outside entities on which I must rely? Their answers were short and to the point. Hydrogen from lingocellulosic feedstock, photosynthesizing paints, or algea is only (economically) feasibile at the large scale. I bit my tounge. It only appears feasible at a large scale because costs are hidden and shifted onto the public. If you don't already know this, open your eyes people, we are funding the coming age of hydrogen by the way our tax dollars are being spent. That statement is not meant to be an attack, perhaps a call to action (what political action besides biofuels I do not know). It is nothing new. The conference was great and I intend no slander to any of the researchers or organizers. They laid out the case as clear as day. Hydrogen is happening and it will not be sustainable though it may appear so on the surface. Indeed a trojan horse. Dave Shaw Alcohol Can Be a Gas! (and you *can* make H2 out of it, but CH4 would make more sense!) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Ethanol, Alcohol, Veg Oil
Thanks a lot Keith. You're more than welcome Pieter. I have the advantage to have a small test - diesel engine ( 13 Hp Kubota ). A few years ago, I bought this thing for other purposes, but now I use it for testing, so if there are new developments to try out, I can do it for you and the others, without risking my car engine. That's good to know, thankyou. Actually I have one too, but I don't know if it works or not. Probably it does, or can be made to without too much trouble. It's also a Kubota, a two-wheeled tractor, at least 30 years old. It's buried under and behind piles of old stuff behind the house beneath an extended eaves, so at least it's kept dry. I've been trying to get round to getting it out of there for more than six months now. No crank-handle, which was discouraging, but then I found a crank-handle. Heavy thing, and of course the tyres are flat. I'll do it soon, there's a job waiting for it. If it turns out to be dead we can probably get another one - there are a few of them around, not being used, probably to be had for the asking. It's probably not too choosy about fuel quality, low-tech old thumper. If I get it running maybe I'll try feeding it on booze, make it drunk. Best wishes Keith Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 2:47 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Ethanol, Alcohol, Veg Oil Oops, sorry, forgot these two: Alcohol in diesel engines -- Have technology, will travel -- policy permitting ... India too can gradually implement alcohol fuel technology for automobiles -- first, as a blend in petrol cars, and subsequently as a sole fuel for both petrol and diesel vehicles. See: Alcohol-diesel technology: Recent advances http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/businessline/2001/07/11/stories/04 1167mu.htm http://www.nf-2000.org/secure/Other/F447.htm Ethanol as Transport Fuel in Sweden In 1996, there will be approx. 300 heavy duty buses and trucks on the Swedish roads running on ethanol. Most of them are inner city buses using neat ethanol with additive for improved ignition. Some run on a diesel/ethanol mixture in fleet tests at five locations. Total consumption of ethanol to the buses will be about 12 000 m3 95 % ethanol/year. Best Keith Hi all, How can a diesel engine run on ethanol ? Hi Pieter The Manual for the Home and Farm Production of Alcohol Fuel, Mathewson, 1980, Chapter 3, DIESEL ENGINES: Contrary to the opinion of most experts, diesel engines can be run on pure alcohol. The main problem is in the lubrication of the injectors. This is solved by the addition of 5-20% vegetable oil (or other suitable lubricant) to the alcohol. It is also possible to make a diesel gasohol with up to 80% alcohol. Since alcohol and oil will not mix when water is present, both the alcohol and the oil must be anhydrous. Different engines may also require adjustment of the metering pump for optimum performance. Diesel engines, especially turbocharged diesels, may also be run with an alcohol/water injection system as described later. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_manual/manual3.html Buses running on pure ethanol Heavy vehicles with converted diesel engines are being run on pure ethanol, with a spark-improving additive. Major environmental benefits are less greenhouse gases and a reduction in exhaust fumes. There are about 400 ethanol-powered buses in Sweden, 250 of which operate in central Stockholm. Successful trials have also been conducted using ethanol-powered heavy trucks and refuse disposal vehicles. http://www.miljobilar.stockholm.se/english/branslen_etanol.asp Ethanol-Diesel Blends: A Step Towards A Bio-based Fuel For Diesel Engines, Hansen, Lyne, Qin, 2001 - includes some information ethanol corrosion, flash points, separation, etc. http://www.age.uiuc.edu/oree/e-diesel/Publications/infopub.pdf Fuel-Cycle Energy and Emission Impacts of Ethanol-Diesel Blends in Urban Buses and Farming Tractors, Wang, Saricks, Lee, 2003 http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/TA/280.pdf http://www.afdc.doe.gov/altfuel/ediesel_general.html AFDC - E-diesel General Information Ventura Bus Lines On 1 December 2000, Ventura Bus Lines introduced the first
Re: [biofuel] Re: Methanol Ethanol
girl_mark_fire said: Randy Davis in Sonoma County CA who is a very visible SVO/biodiesel guy in their SVO coop. (virgin oil, regularly) Ken Provost on this board (WVO) Any regularity on this Ken? From reading your notes, it sounded like you ended up with more soap than BD... Laurie from the Veggieavenger forum who is also a SOnoma person. (virgin oil) those are just people I know of. Mark, Thank you! I stand corrected. Dan -- Jack of all trades, master of none. Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Australia: Government fails ethanol, again
Fwd from Mike Jureidini, Australian Farmers Fuel Senator Lyn Allison Australian Democrats Energy and Resources Spokesperson MEDIA RELEASE 03/857 Government fails ethanol, again Ethanol labelling will go ahead under the Fuel Quality Standards Amendment Bill, passed in the Senate despite being misleading, unfair and anti-competitive, the Australian Democrats said today. Democrats' Energy and Resources spokesperson, Senator Lyn Allison, said, By singling out ethanol blended petrol for labelling and ignoring harmful alternative additives such as toluene, benzene and xylene, the Government is just feeding the paranoia that's been created by the Labor Party. Labor's campaign against ethanol has had a hugely damaging effect on the industry and consumer confidence and the Government has failed to defend its many benefits or show any leadership on this issue. Ethanol acts as an oxygenate that makes fuel burn cleaner and more efficiently; it reduces carbon monoxide and harmful greenhouse gases; it is a renewable source of fuel; and it provides rural and regional communities with job and wealth creation prospects. Senator Allison said, Democrat amendments to the bill would have introduced a 'star rating' scheme for all automotive fuels sold in Australia, similar to the efficiency rating on new cars. The Government had an opportunity to get a very important message across about the relative effects of fuel emissions on public health and the environment and the relevant fuel efficiency, giving consumers the information they need to make informed decisions. The risk of car damage from ethanol blended petrol has not been demonstrated and to go ahead with ethanol warning labels will further contribute to this negative campaign. The Democrats also reiterated their call for ethanol blended petrol to be mandated, phased in over a realistic time frame and a re-thinking of the wrong-headed push by Treasury to impose excise on alternative fuels from 2008. It is time to show leadership; it is time to show the way, Senator Allison concluded. Contact: Vara Szajkowski 0408 056 167 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] ARGENTINA: The catastrophe of GM soya
See also: Round-up Ready Sudden Death Syndrome Prof. Joe Cummins finds evidence that Roundup Ready causes sudden death and other diseases by boosting fusarium in the soil. 30/11/03 http://www.i-sis.org.uk/RRSD.php Ten reasons to NOT use Roundup http://metalab.unc.edu/london/pesticide-education/NCAMP.RoundUp.information Greenpeace Report - Not Ready for Roundup: Glyphosate Fact Sheet http://archive.greenpeace.org/geneng/reports/gmo/gmo009.htm New Study Links Monsanto's Roundup to Cancer http://www.organicconsumers.org/Monsanto/glyphocancer.cfm http://www.greenleft.org.au/current/561p20.htm ARGENTINA: The catastrophe of GM soya BY ANN SCHOLL FACUNDO ARRIZABALAGA Argentina was once the world's granary. Now starving children haunt the villas miseria - shanty towns - and cartoneros (unemployed) families roam the streets looking for leftovers to eke a living from. Over half the population live below the poverty line. Ever since Christopher Columbus arrived on the coast of the Bahamas in 1492, Latin America's wealth has been drained for the benefit of Europe and the United States. Bolivia's silver mines were ransacked leaving behind poverty and destitution. Gold from Mexico, Peru and Brazil filled the banks in Europe. Venezuela was turned into a coca plantation for export and the West Indies were transformed into sugar islands of slavery. More than 500 years later, the colonisers have changed, but the colonisation and plunder continue in the name of globalisation. Argentina, once boasting a diverse agricultural sector, is being transformed into a land of soya-bean monoculture. In the last 10 years, the amount of soya grown has nearly tripled, according to World Bank's figures, and it is almost 100% genetically modified (GM). It was the International Monetary Fund's (IMF) prize pupil, Argentina's President Carlos Menem, who signed the contracts with the agribusiness giants Monsanto and Cargill to go the soya way at the beginning of the 1990s. The contracts were entered into without the participation of Congress and without a public debate. Since then, Argentina has become the second largest GM soya producer in the world, after the United States. The countryside is being left empty as the farm workers' role in nurturing the land and crops is displaced by aeroplanes and agribusiness infrastructure. Migration to the cities has risen at an alarming rate: 300,000 farmers have deserted the countryside and more than 500 villages have been abandoned, or are on the road to disappearance. Agribusiness GM soya farming requires agriculture without culture or people. As a consequence, the villas miseria on the outskirts of the cities are mushrooming with the arriving unemployed agricultural workers. Dusty ashes are left as the earth is intoxicated with agrochemicals to harvest Monsanto's patented seeds, which are genetically modified to be resistant to the company's herbicide, Round Up. Previously unknown illnesses are appearing as people are exposed to highly toxic herbicides, which include Agent Orange, the defoliant used by the US military to devastate Vietnam during the 1960s and '70s, and others that contain paraquat, which can corrode metal, and glyphosate. Floods without precedence are taking place as forests are cut down to make way for soya crops. In the high-mountain provinces of Salta and Juyuy, on the border of Bolivia, the subtropical Yungas region is being deforested to make space for soya plantations. Greenpeace has warned that in five years, the ancient cloud forest will be extinct. In April, the city of Santa Fe was flooded: 140,000 people were evacuated, sections of the city were submerged and several people died. Thousands lost their homes and possessions as they fled for their lives. Alongside this destruction, Monsanto's profits in Argentina almost doubled, from US$326 million in 1998 to $584 million in 2001. Because Monsanto holds the patent to Round Up Ready soya seeds, farmers are dependent on the corporation to provide them. They cannot legally develop their own varieties of the patented seed. Never missing an opportunity to expand its profits, Monsanto subsidiary Cargill Seeds and the ChevronTexaco oil company have teamed up with the Argentine Association of Direct Seed Producers to promote soya as the solution to the malnutrition problem in the country. Their aim is to integrate the bean into the Argentine diet and change people's eating habits to suit their business interests. The Soja Solidaria (Solidarity Soya) project is ruthlessly promoting GM soya as a viable alternative to traditional forms of nutrition among the poorest communities, which is creating a nutritional apartheid. Soja Solidaria encourages soya producers to donate 1% of their soya production to comedores - eating halls for the unemployed, and in public schools, hospitals, neighbourhood centres and old people's homes. The organisation uses community
Re: [biofuel] Methanol Ethanol
Keith Addison said: Have you ever made BD at all Dan? No, I haven't. To answer you, in a word, no. Ah-ha! you say, I knew it! But I don't know what that's supposed to prove - nothing, I'd say, it certainly doesn't gainsay my Not so! What difference does it make if I've made it or not? And what difference would it make if you've never made BD at all? It wouldn't mean you can't, or won't, nor that it can't be done, nor that you're not allowed to discuss it until you have made it, nor anything other than that you haven't made it yet. Point made. As Mark said, there's been a lot of progress since then, very largely thanks to Ken. A couple of weeks back Ken was talking about using wet ethanol, I believe you took part in that exchange. So did Todd, and so did I. This is what I said: Yes, I did. You objected to the information I posted, satating that it was making the potential dangers sound far worse than they realy were, so I took it down. You also said that the acid base method _MUST_ be done with sulfuric acid, and that there were other problems with the theory my friend and I had been discussing. Unfortunantly, when I asked you to elaborate on why it had to be sulfuric acid, and what the other problems are, you did not answer. properly set up and running. I've never run a still before. Have you? Yes, a pot still, not adequate for ethanol production for BD, but a good starter experience. Dan -- Jack of all trades, master of none. Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Methanol Ethanol
on 12/1/03 6:34 AM, Dan Maker at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any regularity on this Ken? From reading your notes, it sounded like you ended up with more soap than BD... OK, Dan -- I'm gonna tell you my story once (even tho it's well documented in scores of messages in the archives), and then I want to hear yours, including why someone who's never made methyl esters is so persistent and argumentative on the subject of ethyl esters. I use a mix of about half and half WVO from local restaurants, and flush oil from the sources you've been hearing about. It runs right around 1ml titr. with 0.1% NaOH soln. While I had a 55-gal drum of fuel-grade ethanol (anhyd. EtOH with 2% gasoline denat- urant, Parallel Products), I used it for over a year in a 5:1 mix with methanol, making most of the fuel for my '99 TDI Beetle. I wash the fuel well and gently to remove the soap, but there's PLENTY of good biodiesel left over. Pure ethanol will only work with scrupulously clean and dry oil, and I've found it easier to include some methanol than to refine the oil. Now that my drum is empty, I'm back to methanol for my biodiesel. I've contacted the alcoholis- agas fokes to see if I can get a closer source of EtOH. Meanwhile I'm using ethanol in a series of experiments trying to find less rigorous approaches to dehydrating it -- so far no luck. Unless methanol is included at around 10% minimum, it appears the ethanol must be 198 proof. Now your turn -- what is Dan Maker's interest in biodiesel, and what are his future plans regarding its manufacture and use? Are you ever planning on actually MAKING some, or are you more the armchair theoretical type? Or maybe just trolling? -K Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Expert Pans Ethanol
Patzek's quite right about the large amounts of fossil-fuels used in the production of maize and wheat - industrialized monocrops of maize and wheat, that is. But it says long-term sustainability is one of his research interests, so he ought to know that industrialized monocrops aren't the only option. Maize and wheat can be and are sustainably and efficiently produced with little or no fossil-fuel inputs. Anyway, maize and wheat are not the ideal crops for ethanol production. But industrialized monocrops of maize and wheat are the ideal crops for ethanol production if you happen to be Archer Daniels Midland, Monsanto, or Cargill. What's this got to do with farm-scale or small-scale community-level ethanol production from whatever range of feedstocks is locally available? - or more likely general biofuels production, not just ethanol? Nothing at all. So much for Big Ethanol. Big Soy - er, sorry, Big Biodiesel won't be too different. What puzzles me about all this is that it depends on high and probably increasing use of the very resource it's supposed to be replacing, a resource that's running out, which is the rationale for the biofuels in the first place. Am I missing something here? :-/ Keith http://www.nfu.ca/Releases/Patzek_ethanol_release.rel.pdf CANADIAN NATIONAL FARMERS UNION National Office 2717 Wentz Ave. Saskatoon, Sask. S7K 4B6 Tel (306) 652-9465 Fax (306) 664-6226 Expert Pans Ethanol SASKATOON, Sask.-Ethanol production from corn is a fossil-energy-losing proposition is the conclusion of Professor Tad Patzek who is a petroleum and chemical engineer at University of California, Berkeley. Patzek was speaking as part of a four-person panel on ethanol at the NFU National Convention in Saskatoon this past weekend. Patzek outlined his extensive research designed to look under the hood of the complex ethanol production system in North America. In most facilities, ethanol is distilled from grain. That grain is produced using large amounts of fossil fuels. With detailed data and references to numerous comparable studies, Patzek demonstrated that the actual energy used to produce a corn feedstock-energy contained in fuels, fertilizers, transport, machinery construction, etc.-exceeds that amount of energy available when the ethanol is burned. Further, all speakers on the panel agreed that the energy balance for wheat-based ethanol would be even less favorable than the energy balance for corn-based ethanol. Patzek's analysis shows that the quantity of fossil fuels needed to produce a wheat or corn feedstock would exceed the amount of fossil fuels replaced by the resulting ethanol. A 'negative energy balance' means that burning ethanol increases, not decreases, total fossil fuel consumption. Patzek also outlined the high water use of ethanol production plants and their harmful environmental emissions. He summed up by saying that in our push to produce ethanol: We have: - Burned more fossil fuels than the energy content of the ethanol from corn; - Degraded and eroded soil on millions of acres; - Polluted surface and groundwater with nitrates, herbicides, pesticides, and ethanol waste; - Polluted air with CO, NOx , SO2 , VOC, etc. [Carbon-monoxide, Nitrous Oxide, Sulphur Dioxide, Volatile Organic Compounds, etc.] ; - Continued to waste billions [of dollars] of taxpayers' money; and - Devised a terrible solution of air quality problems. Tad Patzek is Professor of Geo-Engineering at the Department of Civil and Environmental Planning, University of California, Berkeley. He holds a Masters of Science and a Doctorate in Chemical Engineering from the Silesian Technical University, Gliwice, Poland. His research combines analytical and numerical modeling of petroleum flows. His other research interests involve long-term sustainability, the production of ethanol from corn, and the use of hydrogen as an energy carrier. He is co-author of over 100 research papers and reports. The NFU's National Convention focused on climate change, energy, and agriculture. Delegates from across Canada learned and debated about the effects of climate change, energy alternatives and conservation, and the use of energy in our food production and transportation systems. For More information, please contact: Stewart Wells, NFU President: (306) 773-6852 Darrin Qualman, NFU Executive Secretary: (306) 652-9465 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages
[biofuel] China to Put Corn Into Gas Tanks
China to Put Corn Into Gas Tanks By Nao Nakanishi Jilin province, home to China's first car factory and also its biggest corn producer, is putting corn and cars together in a project to ease the country's exploding pollution ahead of the 2008 Beijing Olympic Games. Like many other agriculture giants such as Brazil, the United States, and India, the northeast province is using its huge farm surplus to make organic fuel that cuts pollution, and reduces dependency on petroleum imports at the same time. Industry sources say, China, which is the world's fastest growing car and energy market, could extend the use of ethanol gasoline throughout the country by 2005 if initial exploratory steps are successful. An Olympics shrouded in smog is not a scene China wants to show the world, but that is what it will look like, unless the traffic pollution in major cities is brought under control. Turning grains into fuel also happens to allow the government to continue to subsidize agriculture outside its obligations under the World Trade Organization (WTO), avoiding more social unrest from farmers who are now exposed to global competition. In Jilin, not far from the provincial capital Changchun, one of the world's largest fuel ethanol plants is currently gearing up for full operation. From October 18, all car, truck and bus drivers in the province must blend into their gasoline 10 percent of the biofuel distilled from corn. A similar policy nationwide would make a significant dent in regular gasoline consumption, which totaled more than 37 million tonnes last year. Fuel ethanol cuts greenhouse gas emissions that are held responsible for global warming. It can be produced also from wheat, sugar, rapeseed, palm oil, cassava or even recycled food oil, such as old frying oil collected from fast food restaurants. Jilin Fuel plant is one of four Chinese ethanol plants under construction, including one in neighboring Heilongjiang, one in the eastern province Anhui, and another in wheat-producing Henan. Such projects are viable only in grain-producing areas, Liu Yi, technical department manager told Reuters at the plant in the outskirts of Jilin city, from where the hills of the province's vast corn fields roll off far away and out of sight. Jilin, which is three times the size of Austria, accounts for more than 10 percent of China's annual corn output of about 120 million tonnes, the second biggest after the United States. It takes about three tonnes of corn to produce one ton of ethanol. Jilin Fuel will purchase corn from farmers and store it in silos at the sprawling complex. The air here is filled with a sweet smell, similar to a brewery, as it conducts test runs. The plant cost 1.94 billion yuan (about $235 million) and is equipped with its own power generators as well as water treatment facilities, still a rarity for China. Along with Beijing, the local government has provided favorable taxes and low-interest loans to the company. It has also promised subsidies to make up for the difference between gasoline and ethanol prices. Liu calculated ethanol to cost about 4,000 yuan ($484) per tonne, compared with gasoline at 2,700 yuan ($327) a tonne. With car sales doubling this year to over two million, the International Energy Agency forecast that China would overtake Japan next year as the second largest oil consumer after the United States. Jilin Fuel Ethanol, a joint venture between the China National Petroleum Corp (CNPC), China Resources Enterprises Ltd and Jilin Grain Group (JGG), is to convert 900,000 tonnes of corn into 300,000 tonnes of fuel ethanol each year. It plans to double its capacity to 600,000 tonnes after that. China has recently been trying to pull back from grain export markets because it cannot continue to pay out the export subsidies it used to under WTO trade rules. To help the fuel ethanol company is to help improve farmers income, restructure the old ariculture system and help maintain social stability, Hong Hu, governor of Jilin province, said. It's a top government agenda item. Over the past decade, China accumulated massive grains stocks as results of its policy of food security but these are now costing a fortune in storage fees, and are depressing prices of new crop, which hurts farmers. Jilin alone is estimated to have over 20 million tonnes of corn in stock. Maybe they are willing to say 'Okay this is in the name of fuel security and environmental protection ... we'll do this', said one source in Beijing, who declined to be named. And if the prices of grains go too high, that's good for the farmers. Source: http://www.planetark.org/avantgo/dailynewsstory.cfm?newsid=22580 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at
[biofuel] working on the methanol part
At 06:24 PM 12/1/03 +0900, Keith wrote: Main reason for us is that you can make ethanol yourself, but not methanol, or not easily anyway - not something a 3rd World villager can do. Just a quick note to say that we're committed to working on that part of the puzzle. Over the past decade, there have been some remarkable advances in methanol synthesis, and we're committed to creating micro models of those reactors that will enable folks to covert wood and paper waste directly into methanol for use as an automotive fuel. One such advance is the liquid process in which the zinc oxide catalyst is ground into a powder and then made into a slurry with mineral oil. Syngas (a mix of H2 and CO) is then bubbled up through the slurry, enjoying a conversion rate of around 20% per pass, which is way up from the standard 5%. The moment I got really excited about this was when I was reading the details on the pilot reactor was used to generate the engineering data used to build the first operating facility, and came across the detail that the test reactor they used to get those numbers was a six foot length of one inch diameter stainless steel pipe. Bingo - a micro-methanol reactor! Since that work was done, Dr. Mahajan ( of Brookhaven National Laboratory working on a DOE grant) has come up with what appears to be an even better route that uses two catalysts and methanol itself as the working solvent. This method not only works at room temperature (on up to about 150C) but at a mere 100 psi instead of between 750 and 1,000 psi required by the liquid process system. And even better, the reactor offers a 96% conversion rate, which means that you don't have to recycle the syngas through the reactor, and is vastly more tolerant of CO2 in the syngas. Another nifty patent to come down the pike involves using a 36 volt arc to decompose a solution of some organic in water producing syngas. Because of the presence of a carbon material, the plasma from the arc generates not a mix of H2 and O2, but rather H2 and CO. Whereas the former is explosive, the latter is not and can be stored for later conversion to methanol, which in turn can be used as an automotive fuel. We're looking at trying to make this work with a slurry of saw dust instead of the sugar solution mentioned in the patent. Anyway, that's what we're up to here in the Washington woods. Walt http://www.windward.org/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Methanol Ethanol
Ken Provost said: I used it for over a year in a 5:1 mix with methanol As I understand the chemistry, the methanol was creating the methoxide (K or Na) which was providing the catylist for your reaction, while the ethanol was doing the esterfication. This is something that the chemist and I talked about doing. An excelent solution. Now your turn -- what is Dan Maker's interest in biodiesel, and what are his future plans regarding its manufacture and use? Are you ever planning on actually MAKING some, or are you more the armchair theoretical type? Or maybe just trolling? -K Trolling, no. Armchair theoretical type, somewhat. At this point I'm doing research. Both in the production of BD and in uses of BD. When my current vehicle finaly wears out, I'll be replacing it with a diesel powered vehicle and produce my own BD. When the furnace in my home dies, same thing, replace with an oil burner and ditto the hot water heater. I don't see any point in replacing a functioning vehicle, and adding to the landfill problem any sooner than necessary, same goes for the furnace and water heater. I'll be making some small batches well before I get a diesel vehicle, but I dont' see much point in producing galons of BD when I don't yet have anything to use it in. A small amount would be handy as a lubricant/ solvent. I'm stiring things up wrt ethanol and ethylesters because from what I've read it seems that the application of good scientific research should be able to crack the problem. However the one theory I've put forward was shot down. Fine, I'll sit on it untill I'm ready to test it myself as I had originally intended. I only put the theory forward because there seemed to be interest in it. Good luck in your efforts, making BD with wet ethanol and WVO seems to be the current holy grail so to speak of the home brew BD world. Thanks, Dan -- Jack of all trades, master of none. Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Methanol Ethanol
Dan said: Tell me Keith, have you ever made BD with Ethanol, either virgin oil or WVO? I haven't. Keith Addison said: Have you ever made BD at all Dan? No, I haven't. To answer you, in a word, no. Ah-ha! you say, I knew it! But I don't know what that's supposed to prove - nothing, I'd say, it certainly doesn't gainsay my Not so! What difference does it make if I've made it or not? And what difference would it make if you've never made BD at all? It wouldn't mean you can't, or won't, nor that it can't be done, nor that you're not allowed to discuss it until you have made it, nor anything other than that you haven't made it yet. Point made. As Mark said, there's been a lot of progress since then, very largely thanks to Ken. A couple of weeks back Ken was talking about using wet ethanol, I believe you took part in that exchange. So did Todd, and so did I. This is what I said: Yes, I did. You objected to the information I posted, satating that it was making the potential dangers sound far worse than they realy were, so I took it down. That was a later thread I think. Anyway, regarding that, it did exaggerate the danger, if any, but you got this from me offlist: Re the IRC transcript, by the way, I was a bit critical yes, but I certainly didn't expect you to withdraw it. It's up to you of course. You also said that the acid base method _MUST_ be done with sulfuric acid, That's what it says, quite specifically, and other work I've seen on acid esterification also specifies that. I think it's been explained, but that was probably beyond me. I'll accept clear instructions on which different sources agree. IIRC there have been some reports of people trying hydrochloric and not getting anywhere. Perhaps a chemist could manage to make a different acid work, but even if it turned out to be possible you'd probably have to work the whole thing out from scratch, develop a new technique rather than just replace the sulphuric and proceed as before from Step 2. What for? If the existing acid-base method didn't work very well maybe, but it does work very well, it's the best method we have. If it's ethyl esters you're aiming at, you'd want to base it on a good, reliable method, not an untried newbie with potential for hidden variables, just for the sake of avoiding a much-exaggerated risk. Anyway, if you do decide to go ahead with it, do please have another look at the method and check for acids it specifically warns against. and that there were other problems with the theory my friend and I had been discussing. Unfortunantly, when I asked you to elaborate on why it had to be sulfuric acid, and what the other problems are, you did not answer. No, I didn't. I think your friend might have done better if you'd given him time to study the Foolproof Method first, rather than apparently commenting on the fly on first encounter during an IRC session. Maybe he's had time to think about it now? properly set up and running. I've never run a still before. Have you? Yes, a pot still, not adequate for ethanol production for BD, but a good starter experience. Good for you! I'm sure that's a good start. Best Keith Dan Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Bubble Wash Assembly
I have read about sewage plants that use thick rubber bladders with slits in them. when compressed air is put in the slitss open up and bubble, but when the air quits the slits close so there is no back flow - sort of a check valve. maybe you could use the bicycle valve of the sort that they use in Japan, which is a rubber tube over a balll needle type tube. It might also work to try using a rubber ball with a lot of holes or slits in it. I would recommend a ball with no filament winding. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Tan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dan, Thanks for the offer but I think I will try out my idea just to see if it will work. Chris =-Original Message- =From: Dan Maker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] =Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 9:50 PM =To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com =Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Bubble Wash Assembly = = =Tan said: = = Thanks for the numerous response but I have to ask again. = Could a basketball pin(used for inflating balls) be used to =deliver a jet of = air/bubbles to a wash tank if powered by a strong enough pump, let's say = portable tire air pumps? = =It could work, I'd think. But it would not work as well as the other =methods that have been discused. = = You see where I live its hard to find the parts you described. = =If you are in the US I'm sure McMaster-Carr will ship to you. I don't =know what their international shipping policy is, but I'd be glad to act =as an intermediary if that's a problem. Have it shipped to me, then I =could re-ship it to you. I've dealt with shipping small items =internationally and it's not that difficult. = =Dan =-- =Jack of all trades, master of none. =Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker =http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard = = =Biofuel at Journey to Forever: =http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html = =Biofuels list archives: =http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel = =Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. =To unsubscribe, send an email to: =[EMAIL PROTECTED] = =Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ = = Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Another reason to get off petrol!
Pulled this from a geography list serve I'm on. Standard reading for us but nice to know other groups are getting the word out. http://www.eurekalert.org/pub%5Freleases/2003%2D10/uou%2Dbm9102603.php Bad Mileage: 98 tons of plants per gallon Study shows vast amounts of 'buried sunshine' needed to fuel society Oct. 27, 2003 A staggering 98 tons of prehistoric, buried plant material that's 196,000 pounds is required to produce each gallon of gasoline we burn in our cars, SUVs, trucks and other vehicles, according to a study conducted at the University of Utah. Can you imagine loading 40 acres worth of wheat stalks, roots and all into the tank of your car or SUV every 20 miles? asks ecologist Jeff Dukes, whose study will be published in the November issue of the journal Climatic Change. But that's how much ancient plant matter had to be buried millions of years ago and converted by pressure, heat and time into oil to produce one gallon of gas, Dukes concluded. Dukes also calculated that the amount of fossil fuel burned in a single year 1997 was used in the study totals 97 million billion pounds of carbon, which is equivalent to more than 400 times all the plant matter that grows in the world in a year, including vast amounts of microscopic plant life in the oceans. Every day, people are using the fossil fuel equivalent of all the plant matter that grows on land and in the oceans over the course of a whole year, he adds. In another calcultation, Dukes determined that the amount of plants that went into the fossil fuels we burned since the Industrial Revolution began [in 1751] is equal to all the plants grown on Earth over 13,300 years. Explaining why he conducted the study, Dukes wrote: Fossil fuel consumption is widely recognized as unsustainable. However, there has been no attempt to calculate the amount of energy that was required to generate fossil fuels, (one way to quantify the 'unsustainability' of societal energy use). The study is titled Burning Buried Sunshine: Human Consumption of Ancient Solar Energy. In it, Dukes conducted numerous calculations to determine how much plant matter buried millions of years ago was required to produce the oil, natural gas and coal consumed by modern society, which obtains 83 percent of its energy needs from fossil fuels. Fossil fuels developed from ancient deposits of organic material, and thus can be thought of as a vast store of solar energy that was converted into plant matter by photosynthesis, he explains. Using published biological, geochemical and industrial data, I estimated the amount of photosynthetically fixed and stored [by ancient plants] carbon that was required to form the coal, oil and gas that we are burning today. Dukes conducted the study while working as a postdoctoral fellow in biology at the University of Utah. He now works for the Carnegie Institution of Washington's Department of Global Ecology on the campus of Stanford University in California. How the calculations were done To determine how much ancient plant matter it took to eventually produce modern fossil fuels, Dukes calculated how much of the carbon in the original vegetation was lost during each stage of the multiple-step processes that create oil, gas and coal. He looked at the proportion of fossil fuel reserves derived from different ancient environments: coal that formed when ancient plants rotted in peat swamps; oil from tiny floating plants called phytoplankton that were deposited on ancient seafloors, river deltas and lakebeds; and natural gas from those and other prehistoric environments. Then he examined the efficiency at which prehistoric plants were converted by heat, pressure and time into peat or other carbon-rich sediments. Next, Dukes analyzed the efficiency with which carbon-rich sediments were converted to coal, oil and natural gas. Then he studied the efficiency of extracting such deposits. During each of the above steps, he based his calculations on previously published studies. The calculations showed that roughly one-eleventh of the carbon in the plants deposited in peat bogs ends up as coal, and that only one-10,750th of the carbon in plants deposited on ancient seafloors, deltas and lakebeds ends up as oil and natural gas. Dukes then used these recovery factors to estimate how much ancient plant matter was needed to produce a given amount of fossil fuel. Dukes considers his calculations good estimates based on available data, but says that because fossil fuels were formed under a wide range of environmental conditions, each estimate is subject to a wide range of uncertainty. Plants in your tank? Dukes calculated ancient plant matter needed for a gallon of gasoline in metric units: * One gallon of oil weighs 3.26 kilograms. A gallon of oil produces up to 0.67 gallons of gasoline. So 3.26 kilograms for a gallon of oil divided by 0.67 gallons means that at least 4.87 kilograms of
Re: [biofuel] Ethanol Process BioD
xmission.com does not acknowledge that that URL exists. Fred On Wednesday, Nov 26, 2003, at 14:02 US/Eastern, Dan Maker wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Is anyone making progress on the reliability of this process, or defining the source oils that are easiest to crack with ethanol? Will the standard processor setup work? (ie - one that makes good bioD with methanol) Randal, I had a conversation with a chemist friend about this issue, here is a link to an html-ized transcript of that IRC conversation. It wanders a bit but has a lot of information you may find useful. I have not yet had a chance to try what we discuss there, and I don't think my friend has yet either. So what I'm sharing is theory, not practice based. http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard/notes-on-two-step-bio-diesel.html Dan -- Jack of all trades, master of none. Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM - ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Our pentagrams are lovingly handwoven by magical people during the waxing moon Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Apology
Keith, Ken, Mark, List Members, I've realy botched this. Done a poor job comunicating and said some things I realy didn't know enough about to open my mouth. I am sorry. Dan -- Jack of all trades, master of none. Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Ethanol Process BioD
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: xmission.com does not acknowledge that that URL exists. Fred Fred, No, I moved it to a different name after there were some conserns about the content. I'll email off list with a good URL. Dan -- Jack of all trades, master of none. Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Apology
Apology accepted. Now high thee hence to your local racing shop, get some methanol, and start brewin' !! -K Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Apology
Ken Provost said: Apology accepted. Thanks Now high thee hence to your local racing shop, get some methanol, and start brewin' !! -K Planing to do some virgin oil this weekend. Dan -- Jack of all trades, master of none. Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] test batch questions
Hello. I'm a newbie, so go easy. We gathered our materials (WVO, Red Devil, methanol, old blender, fish tank heater, measuring gear, etc.) and have mixed several test batches, but it doesn't look right. One liter WVO, 200 ml CH3OH, and varied the amount of lye (3.0 g, 4.0 g, 4.5 g, 5.5 g). Mixed lye into CH3OH for 5 minutes, while WVO preheated to ~110F, then added and ran heater/mixer at ~120F for 1 hour. Poured into clear plastic jugs and allowed to settle overnight. The batches range from 10% to 5% to none, of clear golden oil on top of light brown jellied glob (90% to 99%)in the bottom. Some have white crusty island on top of the glob. Where do we go from here? I was thinking next test batch I'd try way more lye... say 8.0 g. Thanks, Bill Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Another reason to get off petrol!
I have seen this many times and I thought I should voice my skepticism. Think about it. 98 *tons* of material per *gallon*. Someone either forgot several decimal places, or is making a really bad comparison. How many pounds of organic material can we use in an acid hydrolysis method to produce a gallon of ethanol? I'm guessing it's less than 100 pounds. Does anyone have any better details for this? Paul B.Schmidt wrote: Pulled this from a geography list serve I'm on. Standard reading for us but nice to know other groups are getting the word out. http://www.eurekalert.org/pub%5Freleases/2003%2D10/uou%2Dbm9102603.php Bad Mileage: 98 tons of plants per gallon Study shows vast amounts of 'buried sunshine' needed to fuel society Oct. 27, 2003 A staggering 98 tons of prehistoric, buried plant material that's 196,000 pounds is required to produce each gallon of gasoline we burn in our cars, SUVs, trucks and other vehicles, according to a study conducted at the University of Utah. Can you imagine loading 40 acres worth of wheat stalks, roots and all into the tank of your car or SUV every 20 miles? asks ecologist Jeff Dukes, whose study will be published in the November issue of the journal Climatic Change. But that's how much ancient plant matter had to be buried millions of years ago and converted by pressure, heat and time into oil to produce one gallon of gas, Dukes concluded. Dukes also calculated that the amount of fossil fuel burned in a single year 1997 was used in the study totals 97 million billion pounds of carbon, which is equivalent to more than 400 times all the plant matter that grows in the world in a year, including vast amounts of microscopic plant life in the oceans. Every day, people are using the fossil fuel equivalent of all the plant matter that grows on land and in the oceans over the course of a whole ... -- -- Martin Klingensmith http://infoarchive.net/ http://nnytech.net/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] HEET for methanol for first test run
MH wrote: HEET Gas-Line Antifreeze http://www.goldeagle.com/heet/ A Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) says it contains -- 99% Methyl Alcohol - Methanol 0.2% Xylenes an unknown (secret) quantity for inhibiting corrosion. That's 99% methanol, ~0.2% xylenes, and ~0.8% secret ingredients. I used it for my first test batches. It works. I still have several bottles of it. AP Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Another reason to get off petrol!
Paul, this last part caught my attention: On Monday, December 1, 2003, at 04:03 PM, Paul B.Schmidt wrote: We would have to choose between our rain forests and our vehicles and appliances. Biomass burning can be part of the solution if we use agricultural wastes, but other technologies have to be a major part of the solution as well things like wind and solar power. 1) It would not be such a bad thing to be forced to make some hard decisions, but I think it could be less defined - we need to make choices in terms of efficiency, and we need much greater efficiency, but that does not mean, necessarily, outright abandonment of vehicles and appliances. We certainly do need much more efficient machines, and we need to learn to use them more conservatively when possible. 2) the second point is a good one, one that must always be emphasizedit takes a whole basket of various renewables to do what we do with our single-source barrel of oil. Edward Beggs Neoteric Biofuels Inc. http://www.biofuels.ca Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Another reason to get off petrol!
Martin: Does this help? Dukes calculated ancient plant matter needed for a gallon of gasoline in metric units: * One gallon of oil weighs 3.26 kilograms. A gallon of oil produces up to 0.67 gallons of gasoline. So 3.26 kilograms for a gallon of oil divided by 0.67 gallons means that at least 4.87 kilograms of oil are needed to make a gallon of gasoline. * Oil is 85 percent carbon, so 0.85 times 4.87 kilograms equals 4.14 kilograms of carbon in the oil used to make a gallon of gasoline. * Since only about one-10,750th of the original carbon in ancient plant material actually ends up as oil, multiply 4.14 kilograms by 10,750 to get roughly 44,500 kilograms of carbon in ancient plant matter to make a gallon of gas. * About half of plant matter is carbon, so double the 44,500 kilograms to get 89,000 kilograms or 89 metric tons of ancient plant matter to make a gallon of gas. In U.S. units, that is equal to a bit more than 196,000 pounds or 98 tons. ...I think that is his point, that many of our modern methods are really very efficient in comparisonbiomass burning, acid hydrolysis to ethanol.oilseeds Edward Beggs Neoteric Biofuels Inc. http://www.biofuels.ca On Monday, December 1, 2003, at 09:12 PM, Martin Klingensmith wrote: I have seen this many times and I thought I should voice my skepticism. Think about it. 98 *tons* of material per *gallon*. Someone either forgot several decimal places, or is making a really bad comparison. How many pounds of organic material can we use in an acid hydrolysis method to produce a gallon of ethanol? I'm guessing it's less than 100 pounds. Does anyone have any better details for this? Paul B.Schmidt wrote: Pulled this from a geography list serve I'm on. Standard reading for us but nice to know other groups are getting the word out. http://www.eurekalert.org/pub%5Freleases/2003%2D10/uou%2Dbm9102603.php Bad Mileage: 98 tons of plants per gallon Study shows vast amounts of 'buried sunshine' needed to fuel society Oct. 27, 2003 A staggering 98 tons of prehistoric, buried plant material that's 196,000 pounds is required to produce each gallon of gasoline we burn in our cars, SUVs, trucks and other vehicles, according to a study conducted at the University of Utah. Can you imagine loading 40 acres worth of wheat stalks, roots and all into the tank of your car or SUV every 20 miles? asks ecologist Jeff Dukes, whose study will be published in the November issue of the journal Climatic Change. But that's how much ancient plant matter had to be buried millions of years ago and converted by pressure, heat and time into oil to produce one gallon of gas, Dukes concluded. Dukes also calculated that the amount of fossil fuel burned in a single year 1997 was used in the study totals 97 million billion pounds of carbon, which is equivalent to more than 400 times all the plant matter that grows in the world in a year, including vast amounts of microscopic plant life in the oceans. Every day, people are using the fossil fuel equivalent of all the plant matter that grows on land and in the oceans over the course of a whole ... -- -- Martin Klingensmith http://infoarchive.net/ http://nnytech.net/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM - ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Methanol Ethanol
I'm sorry, Dan, but in the real world, biodiesel doesn't lend itself well to theory. You should just get into making small liter batches, lots of people started this way and you;d get a lot further this way then just trying to apply scientific theory on the internet without making the stuff. I noticed you posting about how you're designing a continuous process as well- this also does not lend itself well to theory alone. Get yourself a Whisperlite International camp stove, or a PEtromax or something to be able to use the liter batches you make, or compost them if you don' have a use for them. Everything you are talking about could be tested out in a liter-sized scale without you needing a vehicle to use up big batches with. mark Now your turn -- what is Dan Maker's interest in biodiesel, and what are his future plans regarding its manufacture and use? Are you ever planning on actually MAKING some, or are you more the armchair theoretical type? Or maybe just trolling? -K Trolling, no. Armchair theoretical type, somewhat. At this point I'm doing research. Both in the production of BD and in uses of BD. When my current vehicle finaly wears out, I'll be replacing it with a diesel powered vehicle and produce my own BD. When the furnace in my home dies, same thing, replace with an oil burner and ditto the hot water heater. I don't see any point in replacing a functioning vehicle, and adding to the landfill problem any sooner than necessary, same goes for the furnace and water heater. I'll be making some small batches well before I get a diesel vehicle, but I dont' see much point in producing galons of BD when I don't yet have anything to use it in. A small amount would be handy as a lubricant/ solvent. I'm stiring things up wrt ethanol and ethylesters because from what I've read it seems that the application of good scientific research should be able to crack the problem. However the one theory I've put forward was shot down. Fine, I'll sit on it untill I'm ready to test it myself as I had originally intended. I only put the theory forward because there seemed to be interest in it. Good luck in your efforts, making BD with wet ethanol and WVO seems to be the current holy grail so to speak of the home brew BD world. Thanks, Dan -- Jack of all trades, master of none. Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] acid-base methods Re: Methanol Ethanol
Phosphoric acid allegedly works for acid esterification. It's a whole lot more expensive than sulfuric. mark --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You also said that the acid base method _MUST_ be done with sulfuric acid, That's what it says, quite specifically, and other work I've seen on acid esterification also specifies that. I think it's been explained, but that was probably beyond me. I'll accept clear instructions on which different sources agree. IIRC there have been some reports of people trying hydrochloric and not getting anywhere. Perhaps a chemist could manage to make a different acid work, but even if it turned out to be possible you'd probably have to work the whole thing out from scratch, develop a new technique rather than just replace the sulphuric and proceed as before from Step 2. What for? If the existing acid-base method didn't work very well maybe, but it does work very well, it's the best method we have. If it's ethyl esters you're aiming at, you'd want to base it on a good, reliable method, not an untried newbie with potential for hidden variables, just for the sake of avoiding a much-exaggerated risk. Anyway, if you do decide to go ahead with it, do please have another look at the method and check for acids it specifically warns against. and that there were other problems with the theory my friend and I had been discussing. Unfortunantly, when I asked you to elaborate on why it had to be sulfuric acid, and what the other problems are, you did not answer. No, I didn't. I think your friend might have done better if you'd given him time to study the Foolproof Method first, rather than apparently commenting on the fly on first encounter during an IRC session. Maybe he's had time to think about it now? properly set up and running. I've never run a still before. Have you? Yes, a pot still, not adequate for ethanol production for BD, but a good starter experience. Good for you! I'm sure that's a good start. Best Keith Dan Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Thinning vegoil
This is a dumb question, but I'll ask it anyway. I haven't yet had the time to put in the full conversion on my S-10D, but I'd like to get some vegoil into my fuel stream. Just call me impatient. If I thin the vegoil, say 50/50 with kerosene, and let the engine warm up before I drive it, could I get away with running it with just a fuel heater until I can finish planning my conversion? Would doing this put my injection pump at too much risk? I should probably just be patient and finish planning and installing my 2 tank conversion, but I really want to start burning WVO. I know this is probably a bad idea, but just how bad an idea is it? Yes, I know people have ruined their injection pumps with experiments like this, and that's just what I want to avoid. Replacing a $1700 injection pump is not my idea of a good time. That's why I'm asking this question, and hoping to learn from someone else's experience. AP Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Bubble Wash Assembly
You can poke holes in a plastic tube with a pin to make a bubbler. with the ball inflator pin you're likely to get too much agitation and make emulsion. mark --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, the_maniacal_engineer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have read about sewage plants that use thick rubber bladders with slits in them. when compressed air is put in the slitss open up and bubble, but when the air quits the slits close so there is no back flow - sort of a check valve. maybe you could use the bicycle valve of the sort that they use in Japan, which is a rubber tube over a balll needle type tube. It might also work to try using a rubber ball with a lot of holes or slits in it. I would recommend a ball with no filament winding. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Tan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dan, Thanks for the offer but I think I will try out my idea just to see if it will work. Chris =-Original Message- =From: Dan Maker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] =Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 9:50 PM =To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com =Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Bubble Wash Assembly = = =Tan said: = = Thanks for the numerous response but I have to ask again. = Could a basketball pin(used for inflating balls) be used to =deliver a jet of = air/bubbles to a wash tank if powered by a strong enough pump, let's say = portable tire air pumps? = =It could work, I'd think. But it would not work as well as the other =methods that have been discused. = = You see where I live its hard to find the parts you described. = =If you are in the US I'm sure McMaster-Carr will ship to you. I don't =know what their international shipping policy is, but I'd be glad to act =as an intermediary if that's a problem. Have it shipped to me, then I =could re-ship it to you. I've dealt with shipping small items =internationally and it's not that difficult. = =Dan =-- =Jack of all trades, master of none. =Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker =http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard = = =Biofuel at Journey to Forever: =http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html = =Biofuels list archives: =http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel = =Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. =To unsubscribe, send an email to: =[EMAIL PROTECTED] = =Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ = = Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] The Versatile Engine
Can this engine be designed? Can an engine be designed so that it can run on gasoline, diesel, ethanol, biodiesel, or veggie oil ? The Brazilian government is now giving tax breaks on cars that can run on either ethanol or gasoline. But in the next thirty to fifty years we will inevitably be forced away from fossil fuels. Therefore, engines that are designed with the versatility to run on any renewable resource fuels will become crucial. Will the engine need some minor, manual adjustments with removable parts as needed? Or can the versatile engine be designed from blueprints, at the engineering stage, to run on any fuel without tinkering afterwards? Thank you, Edward Mendoza [EMAIL PROTECTED] 707.537.7392 211 Hayman Court Santa Rosa, CA 95409 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] purification of glycerol
I am L.Vidhya from India.I have completed M.Sc in Environmental sciences In PSG college India, and completed my M.E environmental engineering in Griffith university Australia.and MBA in Huam Resource Management in Alagappa University India(final yr) And I would like to continue my further research work in the same field . I have published a paper on international Elsevier mutation research journal,may 2002 and I have also got best project award(2nd) from Tamilnadu state council for science and technology and also I have got excellent perfomance award from Griffith university Australia for yr 2002 ,i am doing research on biodiesel with different oils,i want to know about the purification of glycerol formed after transesterification , can any one help me Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
