[biofuel] Request for listers
I know I am new, but given the amount of email and persons on this list, I choose to subscribe digest mode so that I am not bombarded with emails. If possible I would like to request that people kindly trim off any unneccessary email from their emails. Over 70% of the last digest was people quoting each other. I am aware of the filters for this too but do not want to have to use them... Thanks, Andre Shoumatoff Park City, Utah, USA Utah Biodiesel Cooperative www.utahbiodiesel.org Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] KOH in the USA
Hi Derek, You may or may not be able to get chemicals from Fisher. Unless they have changed policies, if you are an individual not a business, you could only buy non-chemical items from them if you open an account. Red Devil brand lye is good enough. Gregg - Original Message - From: Derek Sceats To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 12:12 PM Subject: [biofuel] KOH in the USA What is a good source for purchasing KOH in the States? Do you have to go through chemical suppliers like Fisher Scientific? What level of purity is required? Any recommendations? I am at the point of starting some lab testing with NaOH and KOH. Thanks for the help. Derek Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] info on our upcoming seminars
Hello evryone, go to living off the grid 2 for information on our upcoming seminars. Marc Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] KOH in the USA
The old timers here may have better info than me. You should look for a local source, shipping will be the major cost if you shop well. Try this site: www.chemistrystore.com In the trade, the commodity you want is called caustic potash. The 85% material should be very good for your use. /Ernie Rogers In a message dated 6/16/2004 3:21:39 PM Mountain Standard Time, biofuel@yahoogroups.com writes: What is a good source for purchasing KOH in the States? Do you have to go through chemical suppliers like Fisher Scientific? What level of purity is required? Any recommendations? I am at the point of starting some lab testing with NaOH and KOH. Thanks for the help. Derek [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Re[2]: [biofuel] wondering about this comment
I don't agree with alot of the people here. Thats why I like it here. You can't learn much from people who think the same as you.But I have to agree with Keith on this.The only thing I would add is a couple of plays from the Hitler play book.Number one,when running an oppressive regime,give the people a common enemy to hate. this takes the focus off your own shortcomings.Number two,be ruthless in all opposition to what you want no matter how reasonable. The one that I would add is one my dad gave me;when in doubt of the motives,follow the money. Rico Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John Woolsey wrote... a load of total nonsense. A bunch of fact-free opinions only to be found among a particular sector of thoroughly-spun Americans. Whatever would you do without FoxTV John? Learn something maybe? What's always amusing about this stuff is how they they espouse a balanced approach and advise against being an easy mark for the rhetoric, LOL! At least it's amusing if you try, damn' annoying if you don't. I have no intention of defending Isreal. he said, defending Israel. However the tone of these articles are scary at best. Talking about motive as being irrelevant, etc, etc. Of course motive is important. If there is no logical reason for someone to do something most likely the basic assumptions are flawed. When a war goes on bad things happen. A lot. Ships sink. People die, etc, etc. If you dig deeply enough you can find something grey and then proceed to build a case for whatever you want. There is no black and white in the world. Get used to it and understand it or you are an easy mark. The fact remains that Isreal was attacked and whatever happened after that and since was not their doing directly. Yes they could have acted better and they still can. But then so can the people on the other sides. They probably have a right to act more paranoid than anyone else since they are surrounded and no one else is. Remember everything points to the fact that if they had not been attacked none of this would have ever happened. Trying to build a case for hate is stupid. Yes it is, you shouldn't do it. Take a balanced approach. Umm... Remember all of the dictators in that area of the world need you to hate someone. Isreal, the US, Britain, someone. Because if you don't then you will start asking too many questions. You should try a few questions rather than all these cosy assumptions. Saddam killed a hundred thousand of his own people in a very short time. How is he defended by people who support him? You mean by Reagan and Bush Snr? Rather well. Bush Jnr's numbers are getting quite impressive too, he'll be equalling that achievement soon. Of course the intentionally brutal and murderous sanctions the US insisted on, despite worldwide protests, killed maybe eight times as many, half of them children, an achievement not to be belittled. By fomenting hate. True, if you mean Reagan and Bush Snr, and if you don't you should. It is not relevant to who. If you buy into the rhetoric then you where helping him to kill thousands. He is not unique. Nope, indeed not, the US has supported a long and as-yet unending line of brutal and murderous dictators like Saddam. Now you're going to say I hate America or something. Wrong - as with everything else. I don't like dissembly and obfuscation, whether intentional or unwitting. Aarghhh! - it's no use! We've seen this smug and circular line of blather (one of their favourite words) going round and round so often, its internal logic hermetically sealed against any hint of that dreadful stuff reality. I'm not going to argue with you and I hope nobody else bothers to either, your views do not merit sensible discussion, especially not on an international list with worldwide membership such as this one. It's all in the archives already, long since, go and search out what's been said previously before you preach this crap at people here. I know you won't bother to do that, but unless you do (and do it without simply dismissing or not even seeing anything that might disagree with you) please be aware that the solid ground you're standing on is about as solid as a bog, and so is your credibility here. Keith Addison Most of the dictators in the region use this technique and kill many people. In fact I would go as far as to say most modern dictators do this. Just start looking for them throughout Africa and Asia. They all do the same thing. North Korea for example is collapsing because it is the only communist economy that isn't growing. So they start building nukes to pick a fight with the world. Remember it was a north korean diplomat who bragged that caused all of their 'problems'. Also remember that North Korea could easily flatten Sol in less then half an hour with standard artilary making nukes totally unessessary for self
Re: [biofuel] Dream Processor
Don't feel like your being ignored.Sometimes we get off on a tangent and forget
our manners,Hello and welcome.From what I understand Keith,who is the board
moderator was in the process of moving to a new house when you first signed on.
Its kind of a self serve place with lots of help when needed.There are many
knowledgeable people here,but not always at the same time.I would recommend the
link journey to forever at the bottom of the replies.There is a wealth of info
there and it may save you from going the wrong way in your construction.
Rico
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Sorry if my first post here was long winded and boring but I am
disappointed in the lack of responses (zero) to it. I was hoping to
generate some response to the making of my processor project using
stainless steal for the main material. If you had a sheet of metal ( you
tell me what kind of metal ) that was 5' x 10' ( I hope this is enough to
work with ) what size would you make the tanks, What kind of bottoms
would you have ( funnel or flat or just slanted to one point ). how many
tanks. Where would you place the heaters and how many. and where would
you put the hoses ( keep your dirty comments in your dirty minds please).
I give you a blank piece of paper to plan your dream processor. Show me
what you want! I know for a lot of you making it your self is half the
fun and from what I have read for some it is not. I plan on making my own
from your dreams but if this is not practical then from parts of the
dreams. When I am done with the estimating I will tell you what it would
cost me to make and if any are interested in one just let me know. I am
looking at making 20 to 50 Gal. at a time and if any of you are
interested in this I will go with the majority on the out put. Please
help me with this project. Thanks in advance {:-) Brian K. Ok another
long winded letter.--- So I like to ramble }:-) B.K.
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Re: [biofuel] wondering about this comment
Hi Keith/John et al, Thanks for putting me right on the scope of this group, Keith. Us newbies tend to errrors of ignorance. H'sever, I'm pleased. It gives me carte blanche to address John's very pertinent point regarding democracies as the most progressive form of government. Despite Churchill's view of democracy (The worst possible form of government except for all the others) it is still the only way forward in a less than perfect world. On that basis Israel as a functioning democracy has the built-in capacity for the will of its people to find a way out of this mess whereas Palestine, while it operates under the Al Fatah regime, has little such ability. That possibly goes for all Arab theocracies. Their people can never aspire to change their condition under an autocratic form of government. Karl Popper's The Open Society and its Enemies lays out the conditions for a functioning democracy. His intellectual heir is Ernest Gellner who posited that totalitarian states had to jump the Big Ditch between tribally based thinking to an open society. Look 'em up on the web. In the western world the Greek city state of Athens was the first to make the jump. Greek ideas helped leaven Roman imperalism. But the process lost its way. After the fall of the Roman Empire it took Europe more than 700 years to drag itself out of the Dark Ages and then another millenium to reach it its present imperfect approach to democratric government. That said, numerous cultures have managed it over the past few hundred years. As one source has it even the Wild Welsh, the woolly highland clans of Scotland and the pig-ignoratnt bog Irish have achieved it. Who knows, post-Bush perhaps even the Americans may return to it. Which is getting a bit off the point re the Arab/Israeli conflict. To get a bit more insight take a look at David Pryce-Jones's book The Closed Circle. He spent a lifetime studying Arab society. His conclusions are blunt, shocking and leave little hope for immediate change in the region. Perhaps if Bush had read Pryce-Jones before 9/11 he would not have gone into Iraq. The corrollary of course is that if he'd ready anything before 9/11 it would have helped.. What was that again about biofuels? Salaams, Bob. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Producing Hydrogen
John Woolsey wrote: I am interested in looking into the current techniques for producing hydrogen. The technology is, for the most part, old, well understood and expensive! What is considered most efficient. Electrolysis is endothermic at voltages below 1.3 per cell, so it's possible to be more than 100% efficient if you're only counting electrons. However, at voltages that low, output is very small. As is the case with so much technology, compromises on cost and efficiency determine what is affordable and practical. I have built a few electrolyzers in my day. None of these has cost a lot of money, but neither were any of them better than about 25% efficient overall. I haven't wasted any more time with electrolysis as a result. Is it more efficient at higher pressures? Yes. High temperatures make electrolysis more efficient, too. But high temperatures and pressures quickly increase the cost of component materials. Is the best way reversing a fuel cell? Fuel cells are a pipe dream right now. Electrolyzing water? Are there any good web sites on this? Here are some places to start: http://www.clean-air.org/ This is Roy McAlister's organization. Once upon a time I was an AHA member, I've met and interacted with Mr. McAlister and will vouch for his integrity. That's not much of a complement in a field full of liars, but he IS an honest man. http://www.ush2.com/ The U.S. Hydrogen people get a lot of their info from AHA. http://www.stuartenergy.com/ A commercial site. I've been on their waiting list for a home refueling appliance for many years. I'm STILL waiting! http://www.ergenics.com/ This is a hydride site. I think the company is legit, but you'll need Prozak once you uncover the cost of activated hydride. . . http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/hydrogengeneration.html Read everything on this site with a BIG grain of salt. The company address is simply a postal box in a Lancaster, California strip mall. The 'net is full of info like this. Beware! Are there filters for hydrogen gas like there are for helium where you can pump enough air through and extract hydrogen gas? I don't think so. You can ferment hydrogen in an airless tank if you feed sugar to methanogenic bacteria. I've done this, and if you have a free heat source and access to incredibly cheap sugar it might be worth pursuing. (But why, when ethanol is so easily fermented from the same feed stock?) Algae is supposed to be another biological hydrogen source, but I don't think your neighbors will appreciate a swimming pool full of slime across their backyard fence. . . Biomass gasification is another option worth considering. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Two Stage process -- design to add methoxide
Do you know of anyone besides the inventor that has one in operation? Soon, very soon. I pick up the Processor tomorow AM and then I just need to plumb it all together. It's been an ongoing and progressive project :) The system G-Mark has put together hit home with me and then by scouring through the posts here I even got some nifty ideas on how to make a couple of mods to better suit my needs. That's the nice thing about homebrewing, you can tailor it to your particular circumstance. Luc PS:anybody know anywhere I can get my hands on Tilapia fish eggs or fingerlings ? It's for an organic farmer I deal with :) (sorry, off topic, thanks for the indulgeance) --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, linden duncan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark, I looked at the appleseed reactor. I was impressed. The fact that it is fumeless is an attractive safety factor. Do you know of anyone besides the inventor that has one in operation? Linden girl_mark_fire [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Look at the processor plans at: http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor.html . The APpleseed reactor and many others have the type of pump-mixed system you're describing. The way methoxide is added, is that a second tank (a 5-gallon jerrican in my case) is used, which the methoxide is mixed up in. Then it's plumbed inline with the intake of the pump. When y0u add methoxide, you just open a valve, and hopefully the pump will draw in the methoxide into the oil stream. The other devices for this sort of thing include venturis (which would make this work a little better than the current APpleseed arrangement does) and various agricultural sprayer equipment 'injectors' for adding pesticides to a stream of liquid. I don't have direct experience with these. Venturis and other inline chemcal injection devices are found at the Northern Tool, tractor Supply Company, various local agricultural/ranch/farm supply places, www. surpluscenter.com, and McMaster-Carr (McMaster.com I think). Let us know what you find and how it works for you. Mark --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Angus Scown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have just started construction of my processer. I have started pretty simply by building a cone bottomed 44 gallon (200 litre) drum. I was thinking of using a pump to do the mixing as it seems very simple to design/install and with clear pipes in sections to monitor the colour. My construction helper (he who welds) and I got talking about the addition of the Methanol , Acid, Methoxide. He got me thinking about some sort of inline 'adder' so I could drip my chosen substance in to the pump mixing lines. This would help me get a good mix. Has anyone else got experience with this type of design. Not knowing too much about pumps etc what sort of device could I look for/make for adding the substance 'mid flow'. Many thanks. Angus -- __ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://maroochypermaculture.org.au Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Biodiesel on Radio
For anyone interested...Skip Goebel will be on the Jeff Rense show Wednesday night (6-16) discussing biodiesel. http://www.rense.com/ If you miss it, it will be in his archives. Richard U ^..^ ^..^ ^..^ ^..^ ^..^ ^..^ ^..^ Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. -Thomas Jefferson Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Australia - home brewers have to pay excise
Thought I would let other counties know how the Australian Government is about to make it illegal to produce biodiesel at home without a license. They are bringing in a fuel excise of Aus$ 0.39 for biodiesel for commercial and home manufacturers. You can read about it more if interested at http://www.biodiesel.org.au/ How they police it will be another matter entirely but it is such a shame to effectively create so many illegal brewers. When alcohol excise was brought in in Australia home brewers were given an exemption. This is another case of Australian laws being non consistent. To make it worse, Natural Gas was given a 20 year excise free period for reasons I don't recall right now. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Glycerin Conversion
This is the response I got from my coworker who is a chemist. Anybody tried this? I think I tried the acetic acid once in college under somebodies door, but I don't remember any french fry smelling bio-diesel as a result... ;-) steven mesibov [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/16/04 10:45am John, Wondering if the glycerin byproduct of waste veggie oil (WVO) conversion to biodiesel can be converted to something more useful. What do you think of what they say below? Steve Mesibov In the first proposition, I believe you would simply end up with a partially hydrogenated veggie oil. Congratulations, you just made margarine. The sodium methoxide route you currently know about is pretty darn direct as it is, even though glycerin is a by-product. I'd stick with it. In the second proposition, absolutely nothing will result. In fact, alcohols are frequently used as solvents in hydrogenation reactions. However, you could react the glycerin with dry formic acid or glacial acetic acid. This will transform the glycerin into a methyl ester that should blend nicely with the biodiesel. This methyl ester may be easy to separate from the unreacted glycerin and acid since it should not be very water soluble. In other words, adding water to the mixture after the reaction is finished should cause it to separate into 2 distinct layers. This is just an idea mind you. You will have to try it and see how it goes. Nothing particularly dangerous about the reaction..pretty commonplace and boring, actually. You will want to use a fairly large excess of glycerin on a mole basis since the reaction is equilibrium driven. (The disappearance of the strong smell of the acid should signal the completion of the reaction). Hope this helps. John - -- Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 08:42:34 -0700 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Direct oil conversion? on 6/15/04 7:35 AM, tomasjkn at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems to me, that there should be a direct chemical conversion route from oil to fatty acid methyl esters. (R-COO)-CH2-(R-COO-)CH-CH2-(-COO-R) +3H2 == 3 R-COO-CH3 Unfortunately, the ester linkage will always be much easier to break than the C-C bonds in the glycerol. I don't believe what you're suggesting would be possible. Or, perhaps a less radical idea, but achieving the same economy: Maybe there is a route to convert your waste glycerol into methanol? CH2OH-CHOH-CH2OH + 3H2 == 3 CH3OH This one is much more likely -- there are probly bacteria or yeasts that could break down a simple sugar like glycerol directly to methanol. If not, they could certainly be bioengineered :-)-K --- tomasjkn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello dear fellow biofuelers, I have one theorethical question for chemists among you :). It seams to me, that there should be a direct chemical conversion route from oil to fatty acid methyl esters. (R-COO)-CH2-(R-COO-)CH-CH2-(-COO-R) + 3H2 == 3 R-COO-CH3 Has anyone of you studied this conversion path? This path seams to have greater potential for beeing cheaper, because there is no need to add methanol into the process and there is no waste glycerol; the only _realy_ hard thing is to find an appropriate catalyst. But this way you completely eliminate the tedious process of first splitting the oil into the glycerol and FFA and then combining FFAs with methanol, to get the final product - fatty acid methyl esters. Or, perhaps a less radical idea, but achieving the same economy :) Maybe there is a route to convert your waste glycerol into methanol? CH2OH-CHOH-CH2OH + 3H2 == 3 CH3OH The hydrogen sorce for both reactions need not to be pure hydrogen, this might be some other chemical, which gives off hydrogen athoms in reaction... So, any ideas on this?? __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] US political humor
Operation: Iraqi Liberation (OIL) REMINDER Shoot first and ask for international help later. ÷IronicTimes.com According to the New York Times, last year White House lawyers concluded that President Bush could legally order interrogators to torture and even kill people in the interest of national security ÷ so if that's legal, what the hell are we charging Saddam Hussein with? ÷Jay Leno Prosecutors are having a difficult time building a case against Saddam Hussein. I'll tell you something, the guy is smart. See, when he tortured people, he didn't take snapshots. ÷David Letterman Former President Bush, to celebrate his 80th birthday, jumped out of an airplane. And if you've seen the polls, you know he's not the only Bush in freefall. ÷David Letterman Ashcroft's Terror Warning Surprised Dept. of Homeland Security Agency was not aware of the President's falling poll numbers. ÷IronicTimes.com This week in Baghdad, four people were arrested for pretending to be journalists. I'll tell you, this has got all the people over at Fox News nervous. ÷Jay Leno Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] wondering about this comment
Bob, Democracy (=people rule) means that the decisions are taken directly by the people. The only democracy that is coming close to this, is the democracy in Switzerland. The most common democracy is the indirect democracy, the people elects trusted representatives that make the decisions for them. Both Israel and The Palestinians have trusted and elected leaders and will therefore in general terms be classified as indirect democracies. If you by democracy mean that the people chose people that are approved (indirectly chosen and liked) by the US, then it is very few democracies in the world. Those democracies that meet the US specification, must be classified as American democracies. (LOL) Israel have a very big and several small question marks about their democracy, since it in its constitution have religious discriminating elements in it. The Palestinian people are by a true definition Israeli refugees. It is a massive and systematic discrimination case, since they do not have the right to return to their home land. They have been forced to flee from their homes and then their refuge have been occupied by those who made them flee in the first place, but they are forced to stay and be controlled in their refugee camps. Israel cannot let them return home and get democratic voting rights, because it would endanger the constituted Jewish democracy of Israel. It is a case of apartheid and I am surprised at all, by what Keith told us about the links between the old South African regime and Israel. We have changed a nearly 2,000 years old refuge problem to a larger refugee problem that developed during the last 5 decades. This is the base line and everything must be judged from that perspective. It is a dirty and ugly religious discrimination problem, little to do with democracy or respect for human rights. Hakan At 02:26 17/06/2004, you wrote: Hi Keith/John et al, Thanks for putting me right on the scope of this group, Keith. Us newbies tend to errrors of ignorance. H'sever, I'm pleased. It gives me carte blanche to address John's very pertinent point regarding democracies as the most progressive form of government. Despite Churchill's view of democracy (The worst possible form of government except for all the others) it is still the only way forward in a less than perfect world. On that basis Israel as a functioning democracy has the built-in capacity for the will of its people to find a way out of this mess whereas Palestine, while it operates under the Al Fatah regime, has little such ability. That possibly goes for all Arab theocracies. Their people can never aspire to change their condition under an autocratic form of government. Karl Popper's The Open Society and its Enemies lays out the conditions for a functioning democracy. His intellectual heir is Ernest Gellner who posited that totalitarian states had to jump the Big Ditch between tribally based thinking to an open society. Look 'em up on the web. In the western world the Greek city state of Athens was the first to make the jump. Greek ideas helped leaven Roman imperalism. But the process lost its way. After the fall of the Roman Empire it took Europe more than 700 years to drag itself out of the Dark Ages and then another millenium to reach it its present imperfect approach to democratric government. That said, numerous cultures have managed it over the past few hundred years. As one source has it even the Wild Welsh, the woolly highland clans of Scotland and the pig-ignoratnt bog Irish have achieved it. Who knows, post-Bush perhaps even the Americans may return to it. Which is getting a bit off the point re the Arab/Israeli conflict. To get a bit more insight take a look at David Pryce-Jones's book The Closed Circle. He spent a lifetime studying Arab society. His conclusions are blunt, shocking and leave little hope for immediate change in the region. Perhaps if Bush had read Pryce-Jones before 9/11 he would not have gone into Iraq. The corrollary of course is that if he'd ready anything before 9/11 it would have helped.. What was that again about biofuels? Salaams, Bob. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Australia - home brewers have to pay excise
Hi, Yep our all wise and all knowing forward seeing government making the right decisions again, just like the ethanol debate last year. Angus, are you making biofuel, where are you located, im in Sydney, soon to be in Brisbane and as soon as I get there will be starting the learning curve to making biodiesel and ethanol. Regards Nick Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] KOH in the USA
What is a good source for purchasing KOH in the States? Do you have to go through chemical suppliers like Fisher Scientific? What level of purity is required? KOH is not as strong as NaOH -- use 1.4 times as much KOH (actually 1.4025 times). Titration is the same, just use a 0.1% KOH solution instead of NaOH solution, and use 1 gm of KOH for every milliliter of 0.1% solution used in the titration. But instead of the basic 3.5 grams of NaOH lye per liter of oil, use 3.5 x 1.4 = 4.9 grams of KOH. So, if your titration was 5 ml, use 5 + 4.9 = 9.9 gm KOH per liter of oil. One more complication -- check the purity of your KOH, it's generally not as pure as NaOH. Anhydrous grade KOH flake is usually about 92%, sometimes less -- check the label. We use half-pearls assayed at 85%. Adjust the basic quantity accordingly: the basic 4.9 grams would be 5.8 (5.775) grams for 85% KOH, or 5.3 (5.33) grams for 92% KOH. KOH dissolves in methanol much more easily than NaOH does, and doesn't clump together as NaOH can do. -- From: Make your own biodiesel More about lye http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html It also produces a more liquid glycerine by-product cocktail than NaOH does, much less likely to gel. We've never had it gel using KOH. Like many others, we use KOH as standard, we seldom use NaOH these days. It's the same price as NaOH here in Japan but you use more, but we think the advantages are well worth the extra cost. Best Keith Any recommendations? I am at the point of starting some lab testing with NaOH and KOH. Thanks for the help. Derek Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Cheney, Bush and Iraq 9/11 links
This is not the first time that an authoritative source has declared there was no proven link between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda. Bush and Cheney continue to assert Iraq had links to al-Qaeda Perhaps they assert these links so strongly because they know who arranged them? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3814111.stm Best Stuart Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Supplies in Australia
Can anyone point me in the right direction on obtaining biodiesel supplies in australia, I found a source of methanol, minimum quantity 12 44(55 US)gallon drums delivered for roughly $1.00 per litre (I cant store that at home) so looking at getting smaller ammounts. Where can I get potasium or sodium hydroxide. Thanks Nick Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Australia - home brewers have to pay excise
The situation is similar here in the UK. Basically you have to pay duty on vehicle fuel, even if it's home brewed (can't remember the exact amount off the top of my head), and although the licence is supposed to be easy to obtain it's a definite disincentive to starting up. I'm currently using commercially produced, duty-paid biodiesel but would like to try home production. I'm told that even if you use commercially produced, duty paid biodiesel you are likely to be questioned by the police if they smell 'fish and chips' behind your vehicle, and asked to prove that the duty is paid. So a licence could be a useful document to carry around in your vehicle, as they generally don't ask further questions if you produce it. Easier than remembering to keep all your receipts etc.. --- Angus Scown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thought I would let other counties know how the Australian Government is about to make it illegal to produce biodiesel at home without a license. They are bringing in a fuel excise of Aus$ 0.39 for biodiesel for commercial and home manufacturers. You can read about it more if interested at http://www.biodiesel.org.au/ How they police it will be another matter entirely but it is such a shame to effectively create so many illegal brewers. When alcohol excise was brought in in Australia home brewers were given an exemption. This is another case of Australian laws being non consistent. To make it worse, Natural Gas was given a 20 year excise free period for reasons I don't recall right now. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links = -- 43 - more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - so many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Australia - home brewers have to pay excise
First off, I wouldn't disclose which part of the country I was in. Secondly it should be no surprise that a government headed by John Howard the coward would be in bed with oil interests; after all that IS what the Iraq invasion was all about, no? And Johnnie the coward Howard doesn't have the withall to even test the Aussie troops for uranium poisoning (from all that DU the Pentagon says is harmless)as some have requested in fear of it being found out that he sent young men over there to be silently poisoned and killed for Israel's oil war. As one poster said, follow the money, and I will add a quote from Meyer Rothschild,I care not who makes the laws in a country as long as I control the money. Biodiesel making is very versatile and can be done quite discreetly in a fairly small physical area if need be, and then would be a question of letting them catch you if they can ? I am enclosing my processor and wash tank in a closed cabinet on casters that will appear to be nothing more than a work station. I no longer need the discreetness as I did when putting this plan together but it is there and can be expanded upon as the need arises. What they don't know can't hurt you :) It is not so much that they have it in for biodiesel producers as it is a protection racket for the oil interests. Talk about heavy handedness ! Leave it to Johnnie to do the right thing... Luc --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Angus Scown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thought I would let other counties know how the Australian Government is about to make it illegal to produce biodiesel at home without a license. They are bringing in a fuel excise of Aus$ 0.39 for biodiesel for commercial and home manufacturers. You can read about it more if interested at http://www.biodiesel.org.au/ How they police it will be another matter entirely but it is such a shame to effectively create so many illegal brewers. When alcohol excise was brought in in Australia home brewers were given an exemption. This is another case of Australian laws being non consistent. To make it worse, Natural Gas was given a 20 year excise free period for reasons I don't recall right now. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: wondering about this comment
Actually Lybia's system of revolutionary councils is very much similar to that of Switzerland's county councils in that many decisions are made at the local level as is accountability. Of course we don't hear too much about Lybia in a positive light since they nationalized oil and threw the multinational US companies out :) although now Shell is weezling it's way back into some contracts since Ghaddafi has seen the light, thanks in part to Tony Blair (about the only thing he has done of any value whatsoever) and much to the chagrin of the Zionists who still need the big Arab booga booga man, like Samuel Goldstein in Orwell's 1984, the hate focus icon.(they actually call it the 'two minutes hate'). So, there are a few places where even so-called dictatorships are benign. American style democracy isn't all it's pictured to be in any case. It is nothing more than elitist control through the APPEARANCE of representation, but this has been and continues to be exposed as a fraud every day. When the check and balance system (congress) is bought and paid for by a foreign country for it's own interests, and the executive branch is completely corrupt, the entire process has ceased to operate, as it has now in the US. Elections can be rigged, as we have seen in many parts of the world and in the US as well, so true representation by the people is a fairly rare occurance. The latest in the wind is for a military coup in the US to take back the country from those who have stolen it and restore it's constitutional representation that has been erroded and buried with this lot of democratically elected leaders. There are more tyrants at the head of the US government at present (and for the foreseeable future)than there are in many so-called dictatorships, and the populations of these so-called dictatorships are better cared for within the parameters allowed by uneven trade relations than citizens of what is termed the world's greatest democracy, the USA. Perhaps this is why W has been quoted as saying,it would be a lot simpler if this were a dictatorship, as long as I were the dictator, and so the goal was in sight. Luc --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bob, Democracy (=people rule) means that the decisions are taken directly by the people. The only democracy that is coming close to this, is the democracy in Switzerland. The most common democracy is the indirect democracy, the people elects trusted representatives that make the decisions for them. Both Israel and The Palestinians have trusted and elected leaders and will therefore in general terms be classified as indirect democracies. If you by democracy mean that the people chose people that are approved (indirectly chosen and liked) by the US, then it is very few democracies in the world. Those democracies that meet the US specification, must be classified as American democracies. (LOL) Israel have a very big and several small question marks about their democracy, since it in its constitution have religious discriminating elements in it. The Palestinian people are by a true definition Israeli refugees. It is a massive and systematic discrimination case, since they do not have the right to return to their home land. They have been forced to flee from their homes and then their refuge have been occupied by those who made them flee in the first place, but they are forced to stay and be controlled in their refugee camps. Israel cannot let them return home and get democratic voting rights, because it would endanger the constituted Jewish democracy of Israel. It is a case of apartheid and I am surprised at all, by what Keith told us about the links between the old South African regime and Israel. We have changed a nearly 2,000 years old refuge problem to a larger refugee problem that developed during the last 5 decades. This is the base line and everything must be judged from that perspective. It is a dirty and ugly religious discrimination problem, little to do with democracy or respect for human rights. Hakan At 02:26 17/06/2004, you wrote: Hi Keith/John et al, Thanks for putting me right on the scope of this group, Keith. Us newbies tend to errrors of ignorance. H'sever, I'm pleased. It gives me carte blanche to address John's very pertinent point regarding democracies as the most progressive form of government. Despite Churchill's view of democracy (The worst possible form of government except for all the others) it is still the only way forward in a less than perfect world. On that basis Israel as a functioning democracy has the built-in capacity for the will of its people to find a way out of this mess whereas Palestine, while it operates under the Al Fatah regime, has little such ability. That possibly goes for all Arab theocracies. Their people can never aspire
Re: [biofuel] Request for listers
with ya there pal.. am sick of a lot of useless e mail regarding bio diesel, how do i choose digest mode? thanks chris mid england new to vegi oil using [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] KOH in the USA
What is a good source for purchasing KOH in the States? Do you have to go through chemical suppliers like Fisher Scientific? What level of purity is required? Any recommendations? I am at the point of starting some lab testing with NaOH and KOH. Thanks for the help. Derek You can find KOH flake at almost any in-depth soapmaking supply house. Google for soapmaking supplies on the web. Probably cost about $3.00 US per pound. You can get KOH flake in 100# lots and more from suppliers of industrial chemicals for around $1.00 per pound US. Flake runs around 90-92% purity. Adjust for the molar mass difference between NaOH and KOH and then adjust for purity level. Todd Swearingen Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Request for listers
how do i choose digest mode? First, you take a powder to recover from your sick[ness] over what you self-centeredly declare to be useless biodiesel info. Second, go to Yahoo Groups, then My Groups and then edit preferences for Digest Mode. Third, wipe your nose and wake up to the reality that the world and its needs are much bigger than the isolated veg-oil bubble that you would like to live in. Chances are that you're going to fall back on a lot of that useless information at some point in time. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 6:25 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Request for listers with ya there pal.. am sick of a lot of useless e mail regarding bio diesel, how do i choose digest mode? thanks chris mid england new to vegi oil using [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Request for listers
I know what your saying todd, but I keep getting middle east anti western groups popping to my e mail through the bio sites, with no contribution to waste / green managment issues, anyway sickness gone , nose wiped, learnings to be learnt, cheers freebird, [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Request for listers
Although I do think that the original poster is a bit off his rocker it would be nice in my opinion to spilt this list up. Maybe three lists, biodiesel-production, biodiesel-use and biodiesel-political. Just a thought. --adam -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 6:49 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Request for listers how do i choose digest mode? First, you take a powder to recover from your sick[ness] over what you self-centeredly declare to be useless biodiesel info. Second, go to Yahoo Groups, then My Groups and then edit preferences for Digest Mode. Third, wipe your nose and wake up to the reality that the world and its needs are much bigger than the isolated veg-oil bubble that you would like to live in. Chances are that you're going to fall back on a lot of that useless information at some point in time. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 6:25 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Request for listers with ya there pal.. am sick of a lot of useless e mail regarding bio diesel, how do i choose digest mode? thanks chris mid england new to vegi oil using [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] wondering about this comment
Remember all of the dictators in that area of the world need you to hate someone. Isreal, the US, Britain, someone. Because if you don't then you will start asking too many questions. If you substitute Saddam, Al-Qaeda, Taliban, Arabs, Israelis... for your list, you have exactly what is going on in the US. It's the same psychology, just a different person acting like a dictator. That's what the Constitution was designed to protect us from, but that document has been thrown out the window long ago, and is now being systmatically trampled from all quarters. If you're not awake to what is going on in your own country, how can you comment on what is going on elsewhere? Brian Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Dream Processor
Brian,
As one of those that read your post and didn't respond, at least to
say welcome, I apologize. I am still in the process of making test
batches to learn what I am doing and gathering parts to build my
first processor, fairly heavily based on the fumeless processor of
Mark's design. I am far too new to this to contribute to designing
a dream processor. However, if you are able to make conical bottom
stainless tanks with holes designed to accomodate immersion heaters,
lines, etc., and start marketing same in the future, I will likely
be one of your customers. I got a quote from one company for such a
monster but with a flat bottoms. Can't afford their prices right
now, so I'm using a steel barrel with an anti-rust coating inside
instead. Once I find how this works, I may have some input to your
question. I just don't know yet if it will be what to try or what
not to try.
Brian
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Sorry if my first post here was long winded and boring but I am
disappointed in the lack of responses (zero) to it. I was hoping to
generate some response to the making of my processor project using
stainless steal for the main material. If you had a sheet of metal
( you
tell me what kind of metal ) that was 5' x 10' ( I hope this is
enough to
work with ) what size would you make the tanks, What kind of
bottoms
would you have ( funnel or flat or just slanted to one point ).
how many
tanks. Where would you place the heaters and how many. and where
would
you put the hoses ( keep your dirty comments in your dirty minds
please).
I give you a blank piece of paper to plan your dream processor.
Show me
what you want! I know for a lot of you making it your self is half
the
fun and from what I have read for some it is not. I plan on making
my own
from your dreams but if this is not practical then from parts of
the
dreams. When I am done with the estimating I will tell you what it
would
cost me to make and if any are interested in one just let me know.
I am
looking at making 20 to 50 Gal. at a time and if any of you are
interested in this I will go with the majority on the out put.
Please
help me with this project. Thanks in advance {:-) Brian K. Ok
another
long winded letter.--- So I like to ramble }:-) B.K.
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Re: [biofuel] Cheney, Bush and Iraq 9/11 links
canros_uk wrote: This is not the first time that an authoritative source has declared there was no proven link between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda. Bush and Cheney continue to assert Iraq had links to al-Qaeda Perhaps they assert these links so strongly because they know who arranged them? Wednesday, 16 June, 2004, 23:32 GMT 00:32 UK http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3814111.stm Best Stuart Published on Wednesday, June 16, 2004 by the Associated Press 9/11 Commission: No Link Between Al-Qaida and Saddam by Hope Yen WASHINGTON - Bluntly contradicting the Bush administration, the commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks reported Wednesday there was no credible evidence that Saddam Hussein helped al-Qaida target the United States... http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0616-01.htm Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: wondering about this comment
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Gregg Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Keith, may I ask a fool question? Is this a newsgroup that is mainly about alternative fuels, or is it a political outlet for folks that wouldn't be happy no matter what? I just wanted to say that I enjoy the political discussion here. I have learned a great deal that I otherwise would never have known. As for people that wouldn't be happy no matter what, I am glad that I don't fall into that category. I seem to be a fairly happy person, even at times like the current in which my little world is not tilted in my direction. The others on this group seem to be about the same, at least to me. Reminds me of a quote I heard for the first time yesterday. I don't remember who said it, but is was along the lines of I find that happy people are constantly evaluating themselves, while unhappy people are constantly evaluating others. Has always applied in my life, and I'm hoping that remembering it helps keep me in the happy people lot. Brian Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Major Victory for Biodiesel in Delaware
I was watching CNN last night (suprize no one has posted on it yet) and Delaware passed a bill yesterday saying that all diesel fuel will be converted to a biodiesel blend by 2006. I believe at B20... Prety cool I thought http://www.delawareonline.com/newsjournal/local/2004/06/16legislativebrie.html Andre Shoumatoff Park City, UT, USA Utah Biodiesel Cooperative www.utahbiodiesel.org Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Australia - home brewers have to pay excise
biobenz wrote: First off, I wouldn't disclose which part of the country I was in. Secondly it should be no surprise that a government headed by John Howard the coward would be in bed with oil interests; after all [snip] Another thing to bear in mind about the Australian Government is that Little Johnnie released an energy whitepaper, Securing Australia's Energy Future, a few days ago which is big on the subject of geosequestration of CO2 but little on Solar/Wind/Wave/Bio energy. In other words it is pro-coal. A big problem with this whitepaper is that the governments Chief Scientific Officer, can't remember his name, the person who supposedly provides impartial scientific guidence to the government is also the chief scientist for Rio Tinto, the biggest mining company in the world and a huge miner of coal. Basically Howard has sold out to the coal industry, Australia apparently has 150 years of black coal and 500 years of brown coal, to suit his own ends. Andrew -- www.theage.com.au A piece of pork wrapped in green June 17, 2004 The Prime Minister is not helping the environment. He's helping himself, says Kenneth Davidson. The Howard Government is repeating its oldest trick: buying the rural vote on the never-never with a piece of pork wrapped in green paper. Remember the 1996 election, in which Howard promised to spend $1 billion from the sale of one-third of Telstra on setting up the National Heritage Trust over five years? The trust became a National Party pork barrel. More than half the trust's expenditures were directed towards programs such as Landcare, feral animal and weed control, property management planning, farm forestry and special tax credits for farmer spending on land conservation, which added to the capital value of farms and pastoral leases. And the money for this exercise came, not from the proceeds of the sale of Telstra shares, but from savings on other environmentally related spending, notably the winding up of the National Energy Efficiency Program and the Energy Research and Development Corporation (whose activities were designed to reduce greenhouse gas emissions), the withdrawal of Commonwealth involvement in urban and regional development, and a one-third cut in expenditure on the national estate and parks. Advertisement Advertisement The overall effect, in terms of the environment, was probably negative. And farmers have still been cheated because the directors of the partially privatised Telstra are obsessed with getting the share price up by running down maintenance and declining to invest in upgrading the network, particularly in rural and remote areas. This time round the Howard Government is offering a fuel excise reform program that will, according to the Securing Australia's Energy Future white paper released by the Prime Minister on Tuesday, remove about $1.5 billion in excise liability during the period to 2012-13, benefiting many thousands of businesses and households. Farmers may have more to worry about than the direct impact of climate change on the viability of their farms. An accompanying press release from the leader of the National Party, John Anderson, which focused on the promised fuel excise cuts and their benefit to 90,000 households in remote areas, has probably made the headlines in the rural press. Yet the excise cuts are pure pork. They have nothing to do with energy security or the environment. The green wrapping is the $500 million low-emission technology fund. It is theoretically open to renewable energies, but is in effect a gift to the big coal miners (BHP Billiton, Rio Tinto and Xstrata) which, according to yesterday's Australian Financial Review, are due to report 50 per cent increases in profits this year, thanks to Chinese demand. The money will be spent to develop geosequestration technology (that is, to pump greenhouse gas underground), which even the white paper recognises is a chancy technology that is unlikely to be shown as an economical method of reducing greenhouse gases from coal-fired electricity power stations for at least a decade. And even if sequestration was shown to be successful, it cannot be grafted on to the existing power stations. The high-risk strategy reflects the advice of the Prime Minister's chief scientist, Robin Batterham, who is also employed by Rio Tinto. If the Government was as interested in energy security and the environment as it is in holding the votes of farmers and the support of the mining industry, it would have saved the $2.2 billion expenditure foreshadowed in the white paper, increased the mandatory renewable energy target from 2 per cent to 5 per cent and signed the Kyoto accord. It should have also announced that it was commissioning a discussion paper to look at ecological tax reform to shift the tax burden from investment and employment activities (which have a positive
[biofuel] Re: Cheney, Bush and Iraq 9/11 links
Ok, and now just WHOM is Al Queda REALLY ? We know who we are SUPPOSED to believe it/they are, but what have we got other than Bush,Rumsfeld, Rice and Cheney's word on it, not to mention other highly honourable people like Perle, Wolfowitz and Fleicher who we know would NEVER tell a lie (except for the mountains told about Iraq of course)? Well, here are a couple of hints; ***The Phony Al Queda*** http://www.americanfreepress.net/09_26_01/U_S__Army_Officers_Say___Mo ssa/u_s__army_officers_say___mossa.html http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fakealqaeda.html http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2550513.stm http://www.americanfreepress.net/09_26_01/U_S__Army_Officers_Say___Mo ssa/u_s__army_officers_say___mossa.html http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/02/1572495.php http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml? itemNo=241042contrassID=2subContrassID=5sbSubContrassID=0listSrc= YitemNo=241042 http://cbc.ca/stories/2004/03/04/khadr_reax040304 http://www.rense.com/general50/mossad.htm http://www.federalobserver.com/archive.php?aid=5156 http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,9074883% 255E401,00.html http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/02/1572495.php Mossad and 9-11 http://www.world-crisis.com/more/D163_0_1_0_M/ Suspects in contact with MI5 http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2004/040104terrorsuspects.h tml Israel in Leadership of Hamas http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite? pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFullcid=1082793078162 AlQueda Boss has INteresting Background http://rense.com/general53/dldon.htm And when Israel's own Haaretz comes out and flatly states that the Iraq invasion was Israel inspired: http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=280279 and that they are still at it: http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=263941 One cannot help, no matter how far into denial one might be,to wonder that maybe, just maybe EVERYTHING we have been told was a croc right from the get go; from 9-11, the war against Afghanistan and this latest atrocity in Iraq. Who benefits the most ? Who has evrything to gain and little to lose? THAT is who done it.Who has their greedy little paws on the oil? According to Robert Muller, (http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/speeches/speech041902.htm) the then head of the FBI, the only physical evidence found that linked Arabs to the WTC bombings was passports, in pristene shape found on the streets of New York after having survived the massive explosions of the WTC and he even admitted that these were cleverly made forgeries (fakes). Now WHO has the reputation for using fake passports when out doing their dirty work to be sure that the evidence is pointed in the right direction ? Let's have a look at a couple more hints: http://www.odt.co.nz/cgi-bin/getitem? date=23Apr2004object=0422678906type=html http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/lavon.html http://www.allaboutpalestine.com/The_Lavon_Affair.html http://home.att.net/~professorboris/SPECTRE/FalseFlag.htm Was all of this done in a corner ? NO, in fact it was broadcast some time ago in a paper prepared by Wolfowitz et co called A Clean Break-A New Strategy for Securing the Realm which can be found here: http://www.israeleconomy.org/strat1.htm. Mind you this is the same lot who theorised that a full nuclear exchange is winable by the US as if anybody wins in that sort of exchange, but then we are not dealing with the well ajusted here. As far as links between Saddam and Al Queda, even Wolfowitz,who seems to not be able to help from gloating, admitted that there was no connection, but that was well after the fact that they had slaughtered thousands of innocent children in their oil grab. http://www.counterpunch.org/leopold08072003.html and that the WMD's were only a common raly point to get everyone on board the effort; http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/002/757 wzfan.asp and not really the main reason at all.(what could pssibly have been the REAL reason then? oil maybe) and the list just goes on and on and on and on and then we find that Israeli involvement in 9-11 has been classified by the Bush admin as if we needed that cherry on the cake. Evidence linking these Israelis to 9/11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It's classified information.-- US official quoted in Carl Cameron's Fox News report on the Israeli spy ring and its connections to 9-11. http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/spyring.html Note Amdocs, an interesting company, and ask yourself now I have seen that name very recently, now where was it? Well, in case you all missed it, it was at the end of Mr. Dan Fitzpatrick's first email as it seems Mr.Fitzpatrick works for them. I could be wrong and Mr Fitzpatrick could be totally in the dark about all this and there could be ANOTHER Amdocs in operation that is not HQ'd in Israel although his defense of Israel in these threads leads me to believe otherwise, so what,
Re: [biofuel] Re: Australia - home brewers have to pay excise
Let's hope the algea sink in the Ocean keeps working in fighting CO2 because apparently our politicians aren't going to help us for another ten years or so... Either that or the oil runs out which would probably solve a lot of other problems. The good news is I believe the Gen-Xers politicians will have a better hope of filling the gap. At least hope is coming in the future. I still think there are ways to protect our future without projecting the ultimate doom of the planet. I look around at the recycling programs today and they astound me considering our lifestyle of 20 years ago. We need to find ways to change things for the better that are easily acceptable by all of the public like recycling. That is the battle for the here and now. Don't stop working the world is getting better. - bfn - JAW -- Original Message -- From: Andrew Lowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 02:12:42 +1000 biobenz wrote: First off, I wouldn't disclose which part of the country I was in. Secondly it should be no surprise that a government headed by John Howard the coward would be in bed with oil interests; after all [snip] Another thing to bear in mind about the Australian Government is that Little Johnnie released an energy whitepaper, Securing Australia's Energy Future, a few days ago which is big on the subject of geosequestration of CO2 but little on Solar/Wind/Wave/Bio energy. In other words it is pro-coal. A big problem with this whitepaper is that the governments Chief Scientific Officer, can't remember his name, the person who supposedly provides impartial scientific guidence to the government is also the chief scientist for Rio Tinto, the biggest mining company in the world and a huge miner of coal. Basically Howard has sold out to the coal industry, Australia apparently has 150 years of black coal and 500 years of brown coal, to suit his own ends. Andrew -- www.theage.com.au A piece of pork wrapped in green June 17, 2004 The Prime Minister is not helping the environment. He's helping himself, says Kenneth Davidson. The Howard Government is repeating its oldest trick: buying the rural vote on the never-never with a piece of pork wrapped in green paper. Remember the 1996 election, in which Howard promised to spend $1 billion from the sale of one-third of Telstra on setting up the National Heritage Trust over five years? The trust became a National Party pork barrel. More than half the trust's expenditures were directed towards programs such as Landcare, feral animal and weed control, property management planning, farm forestry and special tax credits for farmer spending on land conservation, which added to the capital value of farms and pastoral leases. And the money for this exercise came, not from the proceeds of the sale of Telstra shares, but from savings on other environmentally related spending, notably the winding up of the National Energy Efficiency Program and the Energy Research and Development Corporation (whose activities were designed to reduce greenhouse gas emissions), the withdrawal of Commonwealth involvement in urban and regional development, and a one-third cut in expenditure on the national estate and parks. Advertisement Advertisement The overall effect, in terms of the environment, was probably negative. And farmers have still been cheated because the directors of the partially privatised Telstra are obsessed with getting the share price up by running down maintenance and declining to invest in upgrading the network, particularly in rural and remote areas. This time round the Howard Government is offering a fuel excise reform program that will, according to the Securing Australia's Energy Future white paper released by the Prime Minister on Tuesday, remove about $1.5 billion in excise liability during the period to 2012-13, benefiting many thousands of businesses and households. Farmers may have more to worry about than the direct impact of climate change on the viability of their farms. An accompanying press release from the leader of the National Party, John Anderson, which focused on the promised fuel excise cuts and their benefit to 90,000 households in remote areas, has probably made the headlines in the rural press. Yet the excise cuts are pure pork. They have nothing to do with energy security or the environment. The green wrapping is the $500 million low-emission technology fund. It is theoretically open to renewable energies, but is in effect a gift to the big coal miners (BHP Billiton, Rio Tinto and Xstrata) which, according to yesterday's Australian Financial Review, are due to report 50 per cent increases in profits this year, thanks to Chinese demand. The money will be spent to develop geosequestration technology (that is, to pump
[biofuel] shop vac pump conversion
Someone once mentioned that for a few buck a shop vac could be converted into a pump, how is this done. My only guess is that one could put a coffee can over the filter/vacuum and run a hose out the other end and then out of the vacuum, but it seems maybe a bit difficult to keep a good vacuum seal on a deal like that. Someone know how to do this. Jeremy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Cheney, Bush and Iraq 9/11 links
Hi Stuart, Hoagy and all canros_uk wrote: This is not the first time that an authoritative source has declared there was no proven link between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda. Bush and Cheney continue to assert Iraq had links to al-Qaeda Perhaps they assert these links so strongly because they know who arranged them? How could you even THINK such a thing??? LOL! Wednesday, 16 June, 2004, 23:32 GMT 00:32 UK http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3814111.stm Best Stuart Published on Wednesday, June 16, 2004 by the Associated Press 9/11 Commission: No Link Between Al-Qaida and Saddam by Hope Yen WASHINGTON - Bluntly contradicting the Bush administration, the commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks reported Wednesday there was no credible evidence that Saddam Hussein helped al-Qaida target the United States... http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0616-01.htm Well, we three know it, and quite a few others round here know it too, and the list archives has known it for about two years, and a few billion other folks have known it too for up to that long, but at the last count a majority of Americans (57%) continue to believe that before the war Iraq was providing substantial support to al Qaeda, including 20% who believe that Iraq was directly involved in the September 11 attacks. Forty-five percent believe that evidence that Iraq was supporting al Qaeda has been found. Sixty percent believe that just before the war Iraq either had weapons of mass destruction (38%) or a major program for developing them (22%). And so on. Check it out, it's kind of interesting, in a sad sort of way, especially the correlations. http://americanassembler.com/issues/media/index.html Corporate Media: TV News is bad for your brain Best wishes Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Cheney, Bush and Iraq 9/11 links
Try this test: Sit down and try to find something positive about US foreign policy. I am not going to mention anything specific at the moment I can think of a few things. Things that generally turned out well. Don't search the net find them in your head. Can't think of any can you? Now that we have proven your bais let's talk about it. You have also not defined anything as grey. According to your view the US was not only always wrong but they where completely wrong. You have defined every policy that a nation has undergone in the last hundred years as evil. Wow that is pretty impressive. I have a hard time doing that for even the worst tyrants. Try to take a balanced view of things and see both the good and the evil in governments but more importantly try to understand why they do what they do and you will have a much better chance of effecting their policy by an appropriate response. Learn to hate and you will be willing to support terrible things simply to fuel your hate. Is that the world you really want? - bfn - JAW Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] KOH in the USA
Todd, I just spent a half hour going through over a dozen soap making sites and the best I could find for catalyst was soap making kits with 4 ounce packets of lye. Could you point me in the right direction for finding the larger quantities of KOH flake? And while you are thinking about it, how bout sulphuric acid? I have been warned that the readily available acid drain openers are often quite diluted with water. Thanks! Steve --- Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What is a good source for purchasing KOH in the States? Do you have to go through chemical suppliers like Fisher Scientific? What level of purity is required? Any recommendations? I am at the point of starting some lab testing with NaOH and KOH. Thanks for the help. Derek You can find KOH flake at almost any in-depth soapmaking supply house. Google for soapmaking supplies on the web. Probably cost about $3.00 US per pound. You can get KOH flake in 100# lots and more from suppliers of industrial chemicals for around $1.00 per pound US. Flake runs around 90-92% purity. Adjust for the molar mass difference between NaOH and KOH and then adjust for purity level. Todd Swearingen __ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Request for listers
Although I do think that the original poster is a bit off his rocker it would be nice in my opinion to spilt this list up. Maybe three lists, biodiesel-production, biodiesel-use and biodiesel-political. Just a thought. --adam Hello Adam Do you really think it would divide itself up so neatly? Anyway, three wouldn't do - it's not just a biodiesel list, it's a biofuels list, somewhat different, a much vaster subject, and it comes with an essential context - all energy issues and information would have to be allowed for (as they are here), and more besides, especially with a world-wide list membership that sees energy issues and biofuels issues in many different contexts. So account for all that, then for SVO-WVO (ask Chris!), ethanol, methanol, woodgas, biogas, quite a few more... How many sub-divisions would that give you? And how many of the posts would end up having to be cross-posted to one (or more than one or all) of the other lists because it was relevant to both (all)? Also who's going to administer all this? You? Certainly not me. Nor am I about to wreck what has proved to be a most successful list that's achieved a great deal in many different areas, very much including the three you mention, that will no doubt continue to do so, and into which a great many people have put a large amount of effort... for any better reason than that perhaps you don't know how to use email filters? If people have problems with clogged email inboxes, they should learn how to use filters - essential to using any email list, not just this one. For more info see: http://archive.nnytech.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/21700/ Anyway, messages have subject lines, nobody's forcing you to read anything you don't want to read. Divide it up? No way! Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/ List owner -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 6:49 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Request for listers how do i choose digest mode? First, you take a powder to recover from your sick[ness] over what you self-centeredly declare to be useless biodiesel info. Second, go to Yahoo Groups, then My Groups and then edit preferences for Digest Mode. Third, wipe your nose and wake up to the reality that the world and its needs are much bigger than the isolated veg-oil bubble that you would like to live in. Chances are that you're going to fall back on a lot of that useless information at some point in time. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 6:25 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Request for listers with ya there pal.. am sick of a lot of useless e mail regarding bio diesel, how do i choose digest mode? thanks chris mid england new to vegi oil using Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Cheney, Bush and Iraq 9/11 links
Who are you talking to, Mr Woolsey? Are you talking to me? Or to Luc? Or who? Why don't you put in at least enough of the previous messages for people to have some idea what you're talking about? Are you perhaps taking Andre Shoumatoff's rather too sweeping request a bit too literally, or do you just not know how to deal with email? Anyway, regardless of who this is addressed at, you keep seeing hatred in other people here where in many cases I know there is none, I think many here can see that. Is all they have to do to be accused of hating and being unbalanced to express a view you disagree with? It sure seems that way. If so, you should either reconsider your position or go somewhere else, this is a VERY diverse list and always will be so. You should definitely take considerable pause before you accuse anyone else here of hatred, and the balanced view bit is wearing very thin too. Take heed. Keith Addison List owner Try this test: Sit down and try to find something positive about US foreign policy. I am not going to mention anything specific at the moment I can think of a few things. Things that generally turned out well. Don't search the net find them in your head. Can't think of any can you? Now that we have proven your bais let's talk about it. You have also not defined anything as grey. According to your view the US was not only always wrong but they where completely wrong. You have defined every policy that a nation has undergone in the last hundred years as evil. Wow that is pretty impressive. I have a hard time doing that for even the worst tyrants. Try to take a balanced view of things and see both the good and the evil in governments but more importantly try to understand why they do what they do and you will have a much better chance of effecting their policy by an appropriate response. Learn to hate and you will be willing to support terrible things simply to fuel your hate. Is that the world you really want? - bfn - JAW Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Australia - home brewers have to pay excise
I still think there are ways to protect our future without projecting the ultimate doom of the planet. I look around at the recycling programs today and they astound me considering our lifestyle of 20 years ago. We need to find ways to change things for the better that are easily acceptable by all of the public like recycling. That is the battle for the here and now. Don't stop working the world is getting better. - bfn - JAW
Re: [biofuel] Re: Cheney, Bush and Iraq 9/11 links
John, I think that your thought line in this is a little bit confused. It does not work this way. If you save somebody from drowning, you do not get any license to get out and kill somebody else. You are not likely to be facing a court if you save somebody, but hopefully will do so if you kill somebody. It is good that US actions and policies comes under scrutiny, it should do so and it is even more important if you think about the impact US policies have. The good things, does not give US any right to break international law and moral consensus. . US policy and help is not outstanding, compared with what other nations contribute. When most European countries give around 0.8% of GDP to development assistance, US give 0.2% and in this is some military support. When most European countries give it without purchase rules attached, US demands to be preferred supplier. If you the look at the returns from this and related business, it can really be questioned if US actually give anything and it can even be claimed that it is a net revenue/profit earner for US. So now, give me your list of things that turned out well, as a direct result of US official foreign policy. It has always supported US business interests to a very large degree and it is many success stories there. Only look at the dominant position of US multinationals, that always follow any US intervention, even WWII. With preferred treatment of the US multinationals, US have in many cases been given a free ride to pollute and risk foreign workers, in a way that is completely unacceptable on US soil. I can think about many US NGOs and non government initiatives, who do a lot of good things. This is however on initiative of good Americans, not a part of US foreign policies. I supposed that you did not include this in your question, since you asked for US policies. I can also think about resistance to Soviet style of communism, but even this has been used to cover up support too many quite ugly dictatorships and other things. So let us hear you perception of the good things. Hakan At 20:12 17/06/2004, you wrote: Try this test: Sit down and try to find something positive about US foreign policy. I am not going to mention anything specific at the moment I can think of a few things. Things that generally turned out well. Don't search the net find them in your head. Can't think of any can you? Now that we have proven your bais let's talk about it. You have also not defined anything as grey. According to your view the US was not only always wrong but they where completely wrong. You have defined every policy that a nation has undergone in the last hundred years as evil. Wow that is pretty impressive. I have a hard time doing that for even the worst tyrants. Try to take a balanced view of things and see both the good and the evil in governments but more importantly try to understand why they do what they do and you will have a much better chance of effecting their policy by an appropriate response. Learn to hate and you will be willing to support terrible things simply to fuel your hate. Is that the world you really want? - bfn - JAW Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
