Actually Lybia's system of "revolutionary councils" is very much
similar to that of Switzerland's county councils in that many
decisions are made at the local level as is accountability. Of
course we don't hear too much about Lybia in a positive light since
they nationalized oil and threw the multinational US companies out :)
although now Shell is weezling it's way back into some contracts
since Ghaddafi "has seen the light", thanks in part to Tony Blair
(about the only thing he has done of any value whatsoever) and much
to the chagrin of the Zionists who still need the big Arab booga
booga man, like Samuel Goldstein in Orwell's 1984, the hate focus
icon.(they actually call it the 'two minutes hate'). So, there are a
few places where even so-called dictatorships are benign. American
style "democracy" isn't all it's pictured to be in any case. It is
nothing more than elitist control through the APPEARANCE of
representation, but this has been and continues to be exposed as a
fraud every day. When the check and balance system (congress) is
bought and paid for by a foreign country for it's own interests, and
the executive branch is completely corrupt, the entire process has
ceased to operate, as it has now in the US. Elections can be rigged,
as we have seen in many parts of the world and in the US as well, so
true representation by the people is a fairly rare occurance.
The latest in the wind is for a military coup in the US to take back
the country from those who have stolen it and restore it's
constitutional representation that has been erroded and buried with
this lot of "democratically" elected leaders. There are more tyrants
at the head of the US government at present (and for the foreseeable
future)than there are in many so-called dictatorships, and the
populations of these so-called dictatorships are better cared for
within the parameters allowed by uneven trade relations than
citizens of what is termed "the world's greatest democracy", the USA.
Perhaps this is why "W" has been quoted as saying,"it would be a lot
simpler if this were a dictatorship, as long as I were the
dictator", and so the goal was in sight.
Luc
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Hakan Falk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Bob,
>
> Democracy (=people rule) means that the decisions are taken
directly by the
> people. The only democracy that is coming close to this, is the
democracy
> in Switzerland. The most common democracy is the indirect
democracy, the
> people elects trusted representatives that make the decisions for
them.
> Both Israel and The Palestinians have trusted and elected leaders
and will
> therefore in general terms be classified as indirect democracies.
If you by
> democracy mean that the people chose people that are approved
(indirectly
> chosen and liked) by the US, then it is very few democracies in
the world.
> Those democracies that meet the US specification, must be
classified as
> American democracies. (LOL) Israel have a very big and several
small
> question marks about their democracy, since it in its constitution
have
> religious discriminating elements in it.
>
> The Palestinian people are by a true definition Israeli refugees.
It is a
> massive and systematic discrimination case, since they do not have
the
> right to return to their home land. They have been forced to flee
from
> their homes and then their refuge have been occupied by those who
made them
> flee in the first place, but they are forced to stay and be
controlled in
> their refugee camps. Israel cannot let them return home and get
democratic
> voting rights, because it would endanger the constituted Jewish
democracy
> of Israel. It is a case of apartheid and I am surprised at all, by
what
> Keith told us about the links between the old South African regime
and
> Israel. We have changed a nearly 2,000 years old refuge problem to
a larger
> refugee problem that developed during the last 5 decades.
>
> This is the base line and everything must be judged from that
perspective.
> It is a dirty and ugly religious discrimination problem, little to
do with
> democracy or respect for human rights.
>
> Hakan
>
>
> At 02:26 17/06/2004, you wrote:
> >Hi Keith/John et al,
> > Thanks for putting me right on the
scope of
> >this group, Keith. Us newbies tend to errrors of ignorance.
H'sever, I'm
> >pleased. It gives me carte blanche to address John's very
pertinent point
> >regarding democracies as the most progressive form of government.
> >Despite Churchill's view of democracy ("The worst possible form of
> >government except for all the others") it is still the only way
forward in a
> >less than perfect world. On that basis Israel as a functioning
democracy has
> >the built-in capacity for the will of its people to find a way
out of this
> >mess whereas Palestine, while it operates under the Al Fatah
regime, has
> >little such ability.
> >That possibly goes for all Arab theocracies. Their people can
never aspire
> >to change their condition under an autocratic form of government.
Karl
> >Popper's "The Open Society and its Enemies" lays out the
conditions for a
> >functioning democracy. His intellectual heir is Ernest Gellner
who posited
> >that totalitarian states had to jump the "Big Ditch" between
tribally based
> >thinking to an open society. Look 'em up on the web.
> >In the western world the Greek city state of Athens was the first
to make
> >the jump. Greek ideas helped leaven Roman imperalism. But the
process lost
> >its way. After the fall of the Roman Empire it took Europe more
than 700
> >years to drag itself out of the Dark Ages and then another
millenium to
> >reach it its present imperfect approach to democratric government.
> >That said, numerous cultures have managed it over the past few
hundred
> >years. As one source has it "even the Wild Welsh, the woolly
highland clans
> >of Scotland and the pig-ignoratnt bog Irish have achieved it."
Who knows,
> >post-Bush perhaps even the Americans may return to it.
> >Which is getting a bit off the point re the Arab/Israeli
conflict. To get a
> >bit more insight take a look at David Pryce-Jones's book "The
Closed
> >Circle". He spent a lifetime studying Arab society. His
conclusions are
> >blunt, shocking and leave little hope for immediate change in the
region.
> >Perhaps if Bush had read Pryce-Jones before 9/11 he would not
have gone into
> >Iraq. The corrollary of course is that if he'd ready anything
before 9/11 it
> >would have helped. .
> >What was that again about biofuels?
> >
> >Salaams,
> >Bob.
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