Re: [Biofuel] Any other lister in Malaysia?
It would be good if anybody either in Brazil or Malyasia, or wherever place in the world could share some information about doing biodiesel form palm oil. I have been looking in the web for some documents becuase I intend to write a plan for biodiesel production from palm oil in large scale. Most of what I have found is from soybean, and I know that palm oil has differenet characteristics than the one you can obtain from soybean. All information is welcome, I find very interesting how this list works and the best part is that all its members can discuss the different issues that today's energy environment is facing. The change is starting to happen and I am very excited of being able to be part of the process.Best regards, Luis. Ivan Salustino [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:Keith,You have a point in keeping the discussionglobalas some of the hurdles to bring biodiesel mainstream are common in many countries: lack of economy of scale, difficulty to procure and high price of ingredients, lack of standards, lack of adapted technologies at each locationand even lack of freedom to commercialize biodiesel. At the same time, without calling people's attention to local issues there is less interest and engagement in the struggle to bring biodiesel mainstream. In the case of Brazil, we have a lot of talk by Government and industry to start with a mandatory nationwide B02 next year and Petrobras plans to monopolize de industry with the construction this year of several regional production plants designed for different vegetable oils. At the same time, Ethanol production is on full capacity and later this year there will not be enough to keep up with national consumption and export commitments. Unfortunately civil societyis ignoring this discussion and we may end up in the same emergency situation we were a few years ago in respect to electricity demand surpassing generation. Regards, Ivan Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 01:36:57 +0900 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Any other lister in Malaysia? Hello Ivan Keith,Since you mentioned it, I would like to exchange information with active list members in Brazil.Thanks,Ivan Go right ahead, if you've something useful to discuss (as in my reply to Allan in Scotland). There's room for local discussions, but it's essentially a global list and it definitely has to stay that way. Ideal would be local discussions that were also generally informative or gave a different perspective. That shouldn't be too difficult with a country like Brazil, and welcome. I'm sure you can see what I'm saying. "Think globally act locally" should be a good guideline, as ever. Local issues is what it all comes down to in the end, but nobody else wants to read a series of me-too's and nothing else happens. Best Keith Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 18:26:30 +0900 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Any other lister in Malaysia? Hello all, wherever and elsewhere. There are at least 30 Biofuel list members in Malaysia, and at least 15 in Scotland. There are list members in just about every country and from almost every culture. I don't see much point in checking who's here from where unless there's a specific reason for contacting other local people. Is there, in either of these cases? All best Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN Messenger ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/__Correo Yahoo!Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis! Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Birth of an Industry
Hi Zeke, Yeah, diy is pretty exempt from most regulations, I guess. But I still get my methoxide and lye from the local hardware and car supply stores, and on a couple of recent visits I've been accused of making crystal meth! (this has to do with 'meth-watch', a public interest group advocating shop managers keep their eyes on purchasers of the main ingredients of meth-making) I prefer biodiesel off the radar, is all. Now that official p[olicy is being set, I wouldn't be surprised if actual restrictive laws were enacted specifically prohibiting biodiesel production in the home. Kenji Fuse On Tue, 21 Feb 2006, Zeke Yewdall wrote: If you don't sell your fuel, aren't there exemptions? For example, you have to have all kinds of business licenses to do just about anything for hire, but do it for yourself, and no one cares. On 2/21/06, Kenji James Fuse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So here's the latest I've found for Canada. The push is on for the government of Canada to establish a Federal registration and certification program for all biodiesel producers, importers to guarantee all biodiesel into the Canadian petroleum fuel distribution system meets the accepted North American quality standard ASTM D6751. Quality = Good Registration and Certification at the Government Level = BAD Here's the full report: http://www.www.canadianbioenergy.com/Resources/ DEVELOPING_A_CANADIAN_BIODIESEL_INDUSTRY.pdf My worry is the micro- and small-scale producer (ie backyard brewer) is going to be penalized if not criminalized, very shortly in Canada. Let's have our own accreditation system so I can talk to my elected offical and make sure we aren't screwed over in favour of big tax dollar lobbyists! Kenji Fuse ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Let's accredit ourselves
I wasn't talking aboout the ASTM test, although one of these days I'm going to talk to politicians and bureaucrats about getting the 'distillate curve' off the Canadian specs. All I meant is that we write up a 'biodiesel safe' thingy, like those silly foodsafe courses waiters and grocery store clerks have to take (after wiping your bum, wash your hands). Why let ignorant and liability-conscious politicos do it in a year or so, when we could do it easily, better and beat them to it? KF On Wed, 22 Feb 2006, Nigel Kelly wrote: As funny as that is - I see merit in it. I'm new here, so some comments may be of ignorance - excuse them if they are ... but... Is there a standard we can specify that meets and exceeds the various aspects of current certification testing? Take the most stringent of each apsect to be tested - viscosity, pH etc - and have a single, HIGHER standard which would mean anything meeting that standard automatically meets all the others. This gives the biodieselers the high ground. We can demonstrate we're happy to step up to the mark - in fact we're interested in exceeding it (we are... right?) Striving for perfection is an admirable thing - I also realise it's not a real worl thing... but as a guiding principle it's good. Nigel - Original Message - From: Kenji James Fuse [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 7:04 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Let's accredit ourselves Would any of you be willing to dub me a lord of biodiesel' or something? Seriously, I think it would be a good idea if this list put together a dumb-ass 'certification' test so we could hang it on our walls and point to it should some regulatory agent come snooping around our setups threatening to shut us down. Because we are from all over the world, it would have the kind of untouchability of Amnesty, and good luck to a regulator trying to actually find out about the 'certificate'! I can feel you all already getting your feathers ruffled at this proposal. I think I'm going to try to put something together for the local co-op, so I would greatly appreciate all your critical feedback (but go easy on the insults). Kenji Fuse ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Let's accredit ourselves
There is a lot of power in self-certification from trade groups (which the biofuels list essentially is for biodiesel, even if we don't think of ourselves that way).A relevant example from the PV industry. Colorado has had an active trade group that has an examination, continuing ed, and training process in order to maintain certification for designing and installing PV systems.When the utility was required to install a couple of MW of PV after losing a public vote last year, the entity they eventually started negotiating with was our trade group. And guess whose web page they refer people to to find an installer. Compare this to Oregon, where there was no grass routes certification process. There, the state legislature I believe, decided, after some shoddy systems going in, that only licensed electricians could touch PV modules. Technically, anyone else is not even allowed to take them out of the box. However, these licensed electricians have no requirement to know a thing about PV, and if they go by traditional high voltage wiring practices, could actually made a pretty dangerous system too. Sounds sort of like the biodiesel industry, where homebrewers produce high quality product (and some don't...), and some commercial firms produce crap. But you know who the government is going to put quality control to if they end of legislating something before we show that we are policing ourselves. On 2/22/06, Kenji James Fuse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wasn't talking aboout the ASTM test, although one of these days I'm going to talk to politicians and bureaucrats about getting the 'distillate curve' off the Canadian specs. All I meant is that we write up a 'biodiesel safe' thingy, like those silly foodsafe courses waiters and grocery store clerks have to take (after wiping your bum, wash your hands). Why let ignorant and liability-conscious politicos do it in a year or so, when we could do it easily, better and beat them to it? KF On Wed, 22 Feb 2006, Nigel Kelly wrote: As funny as that is - I see merit in it. I'm new here, so some comments may be of ignorance - excuse them if they are ... but... Is there a standard we can specify that meets and exceeds the various aspects of current certification testing? Take the most stringent of each apsect to be tested - viscosity, pH etc - and have a single, HIGHER standard which would mean anything meeting that standard automatically meets all the others. This gives the biodieselers the high ground. We can demonstrate we're happy to step up to the mark - in fact we're interested in exceeding it (we are... right?) Striving for perfection is an admirable thing - I also realise it's not a real worl thing... but as a guiding principle it's good. Nigel - Original Message - From: Kenji James Fuse [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 7:04 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Let's accredit ourselves Would any of you be willing to dub me a lord of biodiesel' or something? Seriously, I think it would be a good idea if this list put together a dumb-ass 'certification' test so we could hang it on our walls and point to it should some regulatory agent come snooping around our setups threatening to shut us down. Because we are from all over the world, it would have the kind of untouchability of Amnesty, and good luck to a regulator trying to actually find out about the 'certificate'! I can feel you all already getting your feathers ruffled at this proposal. I think I'm going to try to put something together for the local co-op, so I would greatly appreciate all your critical feedback (but go easy on the insults). Kenji Fuse ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
Re: [Biofuel] Liberty BD Issues?
Kurt I heard from the owner of an '06 Jeep Liberty. He said he's run B20 regularly, and B100 occasionally (since it's still cold here), and hasn't had any problems. Do you have any more details on what sort of problems they are reputed to have? Unless you've heard more specific details like David gave, to me it just sounds suspiciously like someone trying to badmouth biodiesel by starting rumors -- introduce an element of risk by stating that you heard thirdhand of a problem and give enough information that it seems plausible, but not enough that anyone can check you out... wouldn't be the first time I've heard something like that from a mechanic. My boss's nephew ran that biodiesel stuff in his old volkswagen and blew up his engine type talk. On 2/19/06, R Heron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: computer is sensitive to BD percentages computers can be tricked into believing any thing we tell them It might take a few heads to work it out but I wouldn't let it stop me without a fight. + - Original Message - From: Kurt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 4:32 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Liberty BD Issues? I've been lurking about here for a while, just watching, reading, and boosting my skill level quietly in the background; I'm making small 2-liter batches regularly now and just adding them to the F250 tank as a System Cleaner additive. ;) When I have more money, I shall work on scaling up. Anyway, reacquaintances aside, I was wondering if anyone on the list has had experience with the Jeep Liberty CRD engine. I've been reading up on it, it seems like a not-too-shabby little diesel, perky enough for the job and so forth, but I've also seen people suggest that the computer is sensitive to BD percentages and starts to throw problems after you go over the B20 line; anyone else heard this? I'm hoping someone here will debunk these rumours, as there's the possible chance of one of these engines making its way into a wagon I'm looking at acquiring with the intention of doing a diesel conversion. And I'd really rather not still be reliant on Petro, you know? Peace all -Kurt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.11/264 - Release Date: 2/17/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Let's accredit ourselves
This was what I was getting at, Zeke, but you've put it much more eloquently and succinctly. I agree that this biofuels list would make a great self-certification group, especially as Canadians tend to have this built-in inferiority complex; and since this list is so international, it would have clout up here. Kenji On Wed, 22 Feb 2006, Zeke Yewdall wrote: There is a lot of power in self-certification from trade groups (which the biofuels list essentially is for biodiesel, even if we don't think of ourselves that way).A relevant example from the PV industry. Colorado has had an active trade group that has an examination, continuing ed, and training process in order to maintain certification for designing and installing PV systems.When the utility was required to install a couple of MW of PV after losing a public vote last year, the entity they eventually started negotiating with was our trade group. And guess whose web page they refer people to to find an installer. Compare this to Oregon, where there was no grass routes certification process. There, the state legislature I believe, decided, after some shoddy systems going in, that only licensed electricians could touch PV modules. Technically, anyone else is not even allowed to take them out of the box. However, these licensed electricians have no requirement to know a thing about PV, and if they go by traditional high voltage wiring practices, could actually made a pretty dangerous system too. Sounds sort of like the biodiesel industry, where homebrewers produce high quality product (and some don't...), and some commercial firms produce crap. But you know who the government is going to put quality control to if they end of legislating something before we show that we are policing ourselves. On 2/22/06, Kenji James Fuse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wasn't talking aboout the ASTM test, although one of these days I'm going to talk to politicians and bureaucrats about getting the 'distillate curve' off the Canadian specs. All I meant is that we write up a 'biodiesel safe' thingy, like those silly foodsafe courses waiters and grocery store clerks have to take (after wiping your bum, wash your hands). Why let ignorant and liability-conscious politicos do it in a year or so, when we could do it easily, better and beat them to it? KF On Wed, 22 Feb 2006, Nigel Kelly wrote: As funny as that is - I see merit in it. I'm new here, so some comments may be of ignorance - excuse them if they are ... but... Is there a standard we can specify that meets and exceeds the various aspects of current certification testing? Take the most stringent of each apsect to be tested - viscosity, pH etc - and have a single, HIGHER standard which would mean anything meeting that standard automatically meets all the others. This gives the biodieselers the high ground. We can demonstrate we're happy to step up to the mark - in fact we're interested in exceeding it (we are... right?) Striving for perfection is an admirable thing - I also realise it's not a real worl thing... but as a guiding principle it's good. Nigel - Original Message - From: Kenji James Fuse [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 7:04 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Let's accredit ourselves Would any of you be willing to dub me a lord of biodiesel' or something? Seriously, I think it would be a good idea if this list put together a dumb-ass 'certification' test so we could hang it on our walls and point to it should some regulatory agent come snooping around our setups threatening to shut us down. Because we are from all over the world, it would have the kind of untouchability of Amnesty, and good luck to a regulator trying to actually find out about the 'certificate'! I can feel you all already getting your feathers ruffled at this proposal. I think I'm going to try to put something together for the local co-op, so I would greatly appreciate all your critical feedback (but go easy on the insults). Kenji Fuse ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the
Re: [Biofuel] Let's accredit ourselves
Well said Kenji and Zeke;
I agree and I think the majority of what you are after Kenji is already
written up on the J2F page. All that is needed is a parent document
that references the various quality test documents or includes them.
Correct me if I am wrong but can anyone confirm that if the methanol
test passes, then the reprocess test becomes redundant? I haven't
verified this. Currently I'm struggling with such poor feed stock that
I can't get really complete reactions with the base only process. I
should start doing acid base soon. Virgin oil works great of course
but I don't want to spend the money to buy 30 liters of virgin oil just
to see if anything will drop out after passing the methanol test. List
experience would be a boon here folks...Also has anyone tried blending
bad oils with better oils to get a mixture that titrates better? Is
this a foolish notion? I need chemistry propeller heads to answer that
one I suppose.
Definitely as long as we continue using waste oils that vary in quality
we need a really solid benchmark for quality testing but I believe we
already have it!
Another issue besides unreacted components in fue which is related to
fuel quality is water content (dissolved water that is -ppm levels)
and temperature effects. I have started documenting trials with a
series of sample vials that contain various mixtures of BD and
petroleum diesel (winter diesel recently obtained from the industry)
ranging from 2% BD up to 80%. I have them out on my window sill and
take pics at various outdoor temperatures. The overall quality
document should speak to this issue of cold temperature use I think. I
will share my findings with you if you want to include it.
Joe
Kenji James Fuse wrote:
This was what I was getting at, Zeke, but you've put it much more
eloquently and succinctly.
I agree that this biofuels list would make a great self-certification
group, especially as Canadians tend to have this built-in inferiority
complex; and since this list is so international, it would have clout
up here.
Kenji
On Wed, 22 Feb 2006, Zeke Yewdall wrote:
There is a lot of power in self-certification from trade groups (which
the biofuels list essentially is for biodiesel, even if we don't think
of ourselves that way).A relevant example from the PV industry.
Colorado has had an active trade group that has an examination,
continuing ed, and training process in order to maintain certification
for designing and installing PV systems.When the utility was
required to install a couple of MW of PV after losing a public vote
last year, the entity they eventually started negotiating with was our
trade group. And guess whose web page they refer people to to find an
installer.
Compare this to Oregon, where there was no grass routes certification
process. There, the state legislature I believe, decided, after some
shoddy systems going in, that only licensed electricians could touch
PV modules. Technically, anyone else is not even allowed to take them
out of the box. However, these licensed electricians have no
requirement to know a thing about PV, and if they go by traditional
high voltage wiring practices, could actually made a pretty dangerous
system too.
Sounds sort of like the biodiesel industry, where homebrewers produce
high quality product (and some don't...), and some commercial firms
produce crap. But you know who the government is going to put quality
control to if they end of legislating something before we show that we
are policing ourselves.
On 2/22/06, Kenji James Fuse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I wasn't talking aboout the ASTM test, although one of these days I'm
going to talk to politicians and bureaucrats about getting the 'distillate
curve' off the Canadian specs.
All I meant is that we write up a 'biodiesel safe' thingy, like those
silly foodsafe courses waiters and grocery store clerks have to take
("after wiping your bum, wash your hands"). Why let ignorant and
liability-conscious politicos do it in a year or so, when we could do it
easily, better and beat them to it?
KF
On Wed, 22 Feb 2006, Nigel Kelly wrote:
As funny as that is - I see merit in it.
I'm new here, so some comments may be of "ignorance" - excuse them if they
are ... but...
Is there a standard we can specify that meets and exceeds the various
aspects of current certification testing? Take the most stringent of each
apsect to be tested - viscosity, pH etc - and have a single, HIGHER standard
which would mean anything meeting that standard automatically meets all the
others.
This gives the biodieselers the "high ground". We can demonstrate we're
happy to step up to the mark - in fact we're interested in exceeding it (we
are... right?) Striving for perfection is an admirable thing - I also
realise it's not a real worl thing... but as a guiding principle it's good.
Nigel
- Original Message -
From: "Kenji James Fuse" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To:
Re: [Biofuel] Let's accredit ourselves
Joe, You wrote: "can anyone confirm that if the methanol test passes, then the reprocess test becomes redundant?" From my experience, when the methanol test fails, glycerine does drop out on reprocessing several trials. When the methanol test passes, no glycerine drops out upon reprocessing. I now only do the methanol test as it is simple and quick. I dump the methanol used into my next methoxide. "Also has anyone tried blending bad oils with better oils to get a mixture that titrates better?" I mix oil from 4 different sources (roughly equal amounts)in a 55 gal settling drum. The titration on the mix is roughly an average of the individual titrations. I've had good resultson batches in which I blend15 gal (57L) very good oil with5 gal (19L)"nasty stuff". Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you could customize your blend to a desired titration. Ex. Suppose you had very good oil: Titrates 1.0g lye/L Very bad oil: Titrated 5g lye/L Mixing 3 parts very good w.1 part bad would produce a mix titration of 2g lye/L. (3/4 of the total oil@ 1g/L + 1/4 of total oil @ 5g/L). In other words, you can dilute the free fatty acids content in bad oil w. good oil. Best to you, Tom Message - From: Joe Street To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 12:58 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Let's accredit ourselves Well said Kenji and Zeke;I agree and I think the majority of what you are after Kenji is already written up on the J2F page. All that is needed is a parent document that references the various quality test documents or includes them. Correct me if I am wrong but can anyone confirm that if the methanol test passes, then the reprocess test becomes redundant? I haven't verified this. Currently I'm struggling with such poor feed stock that I can't get really complete reactions with the base only process. I should start doing acid base soon. Virgin oil works great of course but I don't want to spend the money to buy 30 liters of virgin oil just to see if anything will drop out after passing the methanol test. List experience would be a boon here folks...Also has anyone tried blending bad oils with better oils to get a mixture that titrates better? Is this a foolish notion? I need chemistry propeller heads to answer that one I suppose.Definitely as long as we continue using waste oils that vary in quality we need a really solid benchmark for quality testing but I believe we already have it!Another issue besides unreacted components in fue which is related to fuel quality is water content (dissolved water that is -ppm levels) and temperature effects. I have started documenting trials with a series of sample vials that contain various mixtures of BD and petroleum diesel (winter diesel recently obtained from the industry) ranging from 2% BD up to 80%. I have them out on my window sill and take pics at various outdoor temperatures. The overall quality document should speak to this issue of cold temperature use I think. I will share my findings with you if you want to include it.JoeKenji James Fuse wrote: This was what I was getting at, Zeke, but you've put it much more eloquently and succinctly. I agree that this biofuels list would make a great self-certification group, especially as Canadians tend to have this built-in inferiority complex; and since this list is so international, it would have clout up here. Kenji On Wed, 22 Feb 2006, Zeke Yewdall wrote: There is a lot of power in self-certification from trade groups (which the biofuels list essentially is for biodiesel, even if we don't think of ourselves that way).A relevant example from the PV industry. Colorado has had an active trade group that has an examination, continuing ed, and training process in order to maintain certification for designing and installing PV systems.When the utility was required to install a couple of MW of PV after losing a public vote last year, the entity they eventually started negotiating with was our trade group. And guess whose web page they refer people to to find an installer. Compare this to Oregon, where there was no grass routes certification process. There, the state legislature I believe, decided, after some shoddy systems going in, that only licensed electricians could touch PV modules. Technically, anyone else is not even allowed to take them out of the box. However, these licensed electricians have no requirement to know a thing about PV, and if they go by traditional high voltage wiring practices, could actually made a pretty dangerous system too. Sounds sort of like the biodiesel industry, where homebrewers produce high quality product (and some don't...), and some commercial firms produce crap. But you know who the government is going to put quality control to if they end of legislating something before we show that we are policing
Re: [Biofuel] Let's accredit ourselves
While I still have concerns that we will simply self-identifying ourselves, I also understand the impetus for the initiative here in Canada, the land of what we don't understand, we regulate. I'm not clear how the accreditation gets any credibility without an identifiable, credible organization backing it up, and that takes resources. I am going through a couple of similar deals with solar PV installation and solar water pre-heaters here. In both cases we have the national organization, but in Ontario, we have already lost the fight. There is a training regime for PV installers; I'm taking it. However, it has no value as of last month - PV must be installed by an electrician, whether they understand PV or not. No requirement to have PV training. Similarly with the solar water heaters. Must be installed by a plumber, whether they are familiar with dual loop systems or not. So, before we start developing a curriculum, is there any real expectation that the accreditation will have any value with any authoritative body (e.g., municipal safety officials, fire department inspectors)? Do we have any qualified people in those areas who can provide us with relevant materials for guidance and get the accepted language? No point re-inventing the wheel if it can be avoided. Would WHMIS course material be instructive? Copies of MSDS sheets? Are we looking at a package we could put up on a website, or mail out for a nominal fee? Going back to the food-handling example, don't the workers have to attend a session and answer questions to get their accreditation? Would we have to have a similar means of testing would-be practitioners? Or are we talking a code of practice that a safety official could examine with the practitioner indicating how they fulfill the requirements? Do we have any reason to believe an existing body like Canadian Renewable Fuels Association might be supportive of small scale producers? Anyone else? (e.g., waste management body, agricultural group for oilseed producers) Government body (e.g., Natural Resources Canada, Environment Canada, Climate Change Secretariat, Agriculture Canada)? NGOs (Federation of Canadian Municipalities, Sustainable Development Technology Canada)? Are we better off trying to co-opt a larger body as a champion than going it alone? How much opposition will we get from existing players, e.g., renderers like St. Lawrence-Rothesay or Biox? Which body actually mandates that biodiesel sold in Canada has to meet the ASTM standard (if any actually does)? If such a body exists, perhaps we can provide them with the materials we feel are appropriate, and then let them own and maintain them. Local rumour mill says there should be a Canadian book out on small-scale biodiesel production late spring this year. I understand it will cover some of these issues (safety, quality, handling of by-product). I'm willing to put in some time on this if there is general agreement to proceed. It looks like we have several local groups across the country trying to get organized at approximately the same time, so it might be worth while getting some agreement on the subject and provide a unified front if we choose to proceed. Darryl McMahon Kenji James Fuse wrote: I wasn't talking aboout the ASTM test, although one of these days I'm going to talk to politicians and bureaucrats about getting the 'distillate curve' off the Canadian specs. All I meant is that we write up a 'biodiesel safe' thingy, like those silly foodsafe courses waiters and grocery store clerks have to take (after wiping your bum, wash your hands). Why let ignorant and liability-conscious politicos do it in a year or so, when we could do it easily, better and beat them to it? KF On Wed, 22 Feb 2006, Nigel Kelly wrote: As funny as that is - I see merit in it. I'm new here, so some comments may be of ignorance - excuse them if they are ... but... Is there a standard we can specify that meets and exceeds the various aspects of current certification testing? Take the most stringent of each apsect to be tested - viscosity, pH etc - and have a single, HIGHER standard which would mean anything meeting that standard automatically meets all the others. This gives the biodieselers the high ground. We can demonstrate we're happy to step up to the mark - in fact we're interested in exceeding it (we are... right?) Striving for perfection is an admirable thing - I also realise it's not a real worl thing... but as a guiding principle it's good. Nigel - Original Message - From: Kenji James Fuse [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 7:04 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Let's accredit ourselves Would any of you be willing to dub me a lord of biodiesel' or something? Seriously, I think it would be a good idea if this list put together a dumb-ass 'certification' test so we could hang it on our walls and point to
Re: [Biofuel] Kiwi Biofuellers? Hi I am raj.
Dear Nigel, It gives me immense pleasure to let u know that i am also on the same track as u r, plz be in touch and let me know if u happen come across any good idea. I have been working on it for past 8 months but i am not with the stuff i have collected so far. still we care share things and really look forward to make it come out big , Regards Raj - India. --- Nigel Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi - newbie here, absolutely smitten with the ideas of Biofuel, and taking baby steps towards actually making some (lots of reading... and slow gathering of cheap parts for first biodiesel rig) I'm in Auckland and would love to meet anyone doing this already, compare notes and thoughts etc. Thanks Nigel ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Let's accredit ourselves
All the more reason, perhaps, to consider organizing on a national level. Not only will we have more clout and respect when it comes to biodiesel production self-accrediation, but when we eventually get into ethanol (a biofuel that is useable by a much larger portion of the general population that biodiesel is) we may have an easier time getting the Canadian government to grant us the ability to make our own legally. In either case, this calls for grassroots action, and sooner than later. Andrew Netherton On 2/22/06, Kenji James Fuse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This was what I was getting at, Zeke, but you've put it much more eloquently and succinctly. I agree that this biofuels list would make a great self-certification group, especially as Canadians tend to have this built-in inferiority complex; and since this list is so international, it would have clout up here. Kenji On Wed, 22 Feb 2006, Zeke Yewdall wrote: There is a lot of power in self-certification from trade groups (which the biofuels list essentially is for biodiesel, even if we don't think of ourselves that way).A relevant example from the PV industry. Colorado has had an active trade group that has an examination, continuing ed, and training process in order to maintain certification for designing and installing PV systems.When the utility was required to install a couple of MW of PV after losing a public vote last year, the entity they eventually started negotiating with was our trade group. And guess whose web page they refer people to to find an installer. Compare this to Oregon, where there was no grass routes certification process. There, the state legislature I believe, decided, after some shoddy systems going in, that only licensed electricians could touch PV modules. Technically, anyone else is not even allowed to take them out of the box. However, these licensed electricians have no requirement to know a thing about PV, and if they go by traditional high voltage wiring practices, could actually made a pretty dangerous system too. Sounds sort of like the biodiesel industry, where homebrewers produce high quality product (and some don't...), and some commercial firms produce crap. But you know who the government is going to put quality control to if they end of legislating something before we show that we are policing ourselves. On 2/22/06, Kenji James Fuse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wasn't talking aboout the ASTM test, although one of these days I'm going to talk to politicians and bureaucrats about getting the 'distillate curve' off the Canadian specs. All I meant is that we write up a 'biodiesel safe' thingy, like those silly foodsafe courses waiters and grocery store clerks have to take (after wiping your bum, wash your hands). Why let ignorant and liability-conscious politicos do it in a year or so, when we could do it easily, better and beat them to it? KF On Wed, 22 Feb 2006, Nigel Kelly wrote: As funny as that is - I see merit in it. I'm new here, so some comments may be of ignorance - excuse them if they are ... but... Is there a standard we can specify that meets and exceeds the various aspects of current certification testing? Take the most stringent of each apsect to be tested - viscosity, pH etc - and have a single, HIGHER standard which would mean anything meeting that standard automatically meets all the others. This gives the biodieselers the high ground. We can demonstrate we're happy to step up to the mark - in fact we're interested in exceeding it (we are... right?) Striving for perfection is an admirable thing - I also realise it's not a real worl thing... but as a guiding principle it's good. Nigel - Original Message - From: Kenji James Fuse [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 7:04 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Let's accredit ourselves Would any of you be willing to dub me a lord of biodiesel' or something? Seriously, I think it would be a good idea if this list put together a dumb-ass 'certification' test so we could hang it on our walls and point to it should some regulatory agent come snooping around our setups threatening to shut us down. Because we are from all over the world, it would have the kind of untouchability of Amnesty, and good luck to a regulator trying to actually find out about the 'certificate'! I can feel you all already getting your feathers ruffled at this proposal. I think I'm going to try to put something together for the local co-op, so I would greatly appreciate all your critical feedback (but go easy on the insults). Kenji Fuse
Re: [Biofuel] Let's accredit ourselves
Original Message - Kenji James Fuse Wrote I wasn't talking aboout the ASTM test, although one of these days I'm going to talk to politicians and bureaucrats about getting the 'distillate curve' off the Canadian specs. All I meant is that we write up a 'biodiesel safe' thingy, like those silly foodsafe courses waiters and grocery store clerks have to take (after wiping your bum, wash your hands). Why let ignorant and liability-conscious politicos do it in a year or so, when we could do it easily, better and beat them to it? KF Kenji, I'm willing to put in time and effort. The polititions will eventually form a board and write rules and regulations on produceing biofuels for personal and businesses. They will either say you can't do it personally or they'll make the requirements so strict that you won't be able to do it LEAGLY. To acredit ourselves and do it in a weak manner won't do any good in a few years. It would take detailed process documents, safety regulations, requirements, restrictions of materials to be used and various other things. Then the documents would have to be transulated into the major languages of the world. Without this type of work it would be pointless because the EPA, or various other orginizations would not reconize any authority you have created. There would not be a requirement to actually inspect and police the people doing it. They would be takeing legal responsability and negating their membership if they did not follow the rules and regulations. If we work and do it right we could form an associatoin that would be respected and reconized worldwide while makeing it possiable for people to produce biodiesel on a personal scale. Keith, How many members are there for the biofuel list? Logan Vilas Bio-Fuel Enterpriese, Inc. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Birth of an Industry
Hi Kenji, I've read some of the report you quoted. I guess it must be kept in mind that this is a submission from a private enterprise to the government on recommendations for expanding the industry in Canada, both from a producer perspective and from a consumer perspective. It is certainly not legislation. A further point is that they recommended registration and certification for biofuel/producers that enters the fuel distribution system. This would take home-brew systems pretty much off the radar screen from this kind of scrutiny. Of course if this were to turn into legislation, it would still leave out a whole class of producer - that operated like a the equivalent of the beer micro-brewery ie: a small commercial producer selling direct to the public. Surely we would expect some type of standards to be adhered to if fuel was being sold to the public. I agree with you, however, that if certifications and registration were made universal, that could be to the detriment of the home producer (depending on how costly this becomes) and that would not be desirable. The solutions to world energy requirements post cheap oil (ie: today) has to involve lots of different solutions at the local level with local people who care about their local environment( and therefore the global environment). We can't leave it to big business to solve this one because we already know where their values are and what results that leads to. Steve On Wednesday 22 February 2006 02:04 pm, Kenji James Fuse wrote: So here's the latest I've found for Canada. The push is on for the government of Canada to establish a Federal registration and certification program for all biodiesel producers, importers to guarantee all biodiesel into the Canadian petroleum fuel distribution system meets the accepted North American quality standard ASTM D6751. Quality = Good Registration and Certification at the Government Level = BAD Here's the full report: http://www.www.canadianbioenergy.com/Resources/ DEVELOPING_A_CANADIAN_BIODIESEL_INDUSTRY.pdf My worry is the micro- and small-scale producer (ie backyard brewer) is going to be penalized if not criminalized, very shortly in Canada. Let's have our own accreditation system so I can talk to my elected offical and make sure we aren't screwed over in favour of big tax dollar lobbyists! Kenji Fuse ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Steve Racz (03) 383 8167 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Liberty BD Issues?
Zeke Yewdall wrote: I heard from the owner of an '06 Jeep Liberty. He said he's run B20 regularly, and B100 occasionally (since it's still cold here), and hasn't had any problems. Do you have any more details on what sort of problems they are reputed to have? Most of what I'm getting comes from the Liberty section on an auto site, I believe it was Edmunds? There's a long, long thread in there devoted entirely to the Liberty, and while scanning through the 400+ pages of comments made to it I started seeing things about running biodiesel in the CRD version. Granted, only a few admitted to even trying it (Some element of fear? OMG my engine's going to explode!? I dunno.). Of those few, two spoke of having problems when they ran B20+. Made mention of rough idle, limp home mode and so on. Personally, I just think they got some crappy fuel in there (Put a tank of Dino back in it, it ran fine), but I just wanted to see if anyone here had any personal experiences with it is all. I trust the people on this list more than I trust some unknown Liberty owner who's probably on their first diesel. Unless you've heard more specific details like David gave, to me it just sounds suspiciously like someone trying to badmouth biodiesel by starting rumors -- introduce an element of risk by stating that you heard thirdhand of a problem and give enough information that it seems plausible, but not enough that anyone can check you out... wouldn't be the first time I've heard something like that from a mechanic. My boss's nephew ran that biodiesel stuff in his old volkswagen and blew up his engine type talk. I have a strong suspicion it's mostly people blowing bad smoke BD's way. Maybe they'd heard a lot about it, finally decided to try it, and bam, they get a bad batch of commercial B20? On a tangent, I think my most recent batch is a bad one; small sample shake-test has appropriate separation, but the water portion is all frothy and white. Methinks it didn't quite push all the way through to completion, oh well. Reprocess and try again, add ten minutes stirring time! Only two liters, after all. ;) Peace all! -Kurt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Liberty BD Issues?
Could have got a bad batch of BD, yes... There is a place that sells BD in 5 gallon jugs here that's UNWASHED and INCOMPLETE reaction (I tested it, per JTF instructions, and there is no way it's been washed). The unwashed stuff works okay in my truck (don't know that I'd try it in the wintertime though), but not in the newer vehicals. Another place sells good commercial ASTM biodiesel at the credit card pump. But to a newby, how do you know that all biodiesel isn't the same On 2/22/06, Kurt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Zeke Yewdall wrote: I heard from the owner of an '06 Jeep Liberty. He said he's run B20 regularly, and B100 occasionally (since it's still cold here), and hasn't had any problems. Do you have any more details on what sort of problems they are reputed to have? Most of what I'm getting comes from the Liberty section on an auto site, I believe it was Edmunds? There's a long, long thread in there devoted entirely to the Liberty, and while scanning through the 400+ pages of comments made to it I started seeing things about running biodiesel in the CRD version. Granted, only a few admitted to even trying it (Some element of fear? OMG my engine's going to explode!? I dunno.). Of those few, two spoke of having problems when they ran B20+. Made mention of rough idle, limp home mode and so on. Personally, I just think they got some crappy fuel in there (Put a tank of Dino back in it, it ran fine), but I just wanted to see if anyone here had any personal experiences with it is all. I trust the people on this list more than I trust some unknown Liberty owner who's probably on their first diesel. Unless you've heard more specific details like David gave, to me it just sounds suspiciously like someone trying to badmouth biodiesel by starting rumors -- introduce an element of risk by stating that you heard thirdhand of a problem and give enough information that it seems plausible, but not enough that anyone can check you out... wouldn't be the first time I've heard something like that from a mechanic. My boss's nephew ran that biodiesel stuff in his old volkswagen and blew up his engine type talk. I have a strong suspicion it's mostly people blowing bad smoke BD's way. Maybe they'd heard a lot about it, finally decided to try it, and bam, they get a bad batch of commercial B20? On a tangent, I think my most recent batch is a bad one; small sample shake-test has appropriate separation, but the water portion is all frothy and white. Methinks it didn't quite push all the way through to completion, oh well. Reprocess and try again, add ten minutes stirring time! Only two liters, after all. ;) Peace all! -Kurt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Compressed air wash
Hello all, A friend of mine had been bubble washing his BD using a large ring w holes in it at the bottom of his wash tank. He used an aquarium pump to bubble air through the ring for 6 - 8 hours /wash. He saw how fast and effective my stir washing wasand decided to speed up his process. He compressed air into a tank (150 psi and set the regulator at 80). The aircoming out ofthe ring causes a very turbulent mix in the wash tank. It only takes a minute or two to get a homogeneous mix of water with his 70L batch of BD. He lets it run for about 15 minutes. Is anyone else washing their BD this way? Does anyone see any problems with his compressed air wash? Any reason to run it more than the time it takes to get a homogeneous mix? Thanks, Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Let's accredit ourselves
Joe, You wrote: "can anyone confirm that if the methanol test passes, then the reprocess test becomes redundant?" From my experience, when the methanol test fails, glycerine does drop out on reprocessing several trials. When the methanol test passes, no glycerine drops out upon reprocessing. I now only do the methanol test as it is simple and quick. I dump the methanol used into my next methoxide. "Also has anyone tried blending bad oils with better oils to get a mixture that titrates better?" I mix oil from 4 different sources (roughly equal amounts)in a 55 gal settling drum. The titration on the mix is roughly an average of the individual titrations. I've had good resultson batches in which I blend15 gal (57L) very good oil with5 gal (19L)"nasty stuff". Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you could customize your blend to a desired titration. Ex. Suppose you had very good oil: Titrates 1.0g lye/L Very bad oil: Titrated 5g lye/L Mixing 3 parts very good w.1 part bad would produce a mix titration of 2g lye/L. (3/4 of the total oil@ 1g/L + 1/4 of total oil @ 5g/L). In other words, you can dilute the free fatty acids content in bad oil w. good oil. Best to you, Tom Message - From: Joe Street To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 12:58 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Let's accredit ourselves Well said Kenji and Zeke;I agree and I think the majority of what you are after Kenji is already written up on the J2F page. All that is needed is a parent document that references the various quality test documents or includes them. Correct me if I am wrong but can anyone confirm that if the methanol test passes, then the reprocess test becomes redundant? I haven't verified this. Currently I'm struggling with such poor feed stock that I can't get really complete reactions with the base only process. I should start doing acid base soon. Virgin oil works great of course but I don't want to spend the money to buy 30 liters of virgin oil just to see if anything will drop out after passing the methanol test. List experience would be a boon here folks...Also has anyone tried blending bad oils with better oils to get a mixture that titrates better? Is this a foolish notion? I need chemistry propeller heads to answer that one I suppose.Definitely as long as we continue using waste oils that vary in quality we need a really solid benchmark for quality testing but I believe we already have it!Another issue besides unreacted components in fue which is related to fuel quality is water content (dissolved water that is -ppm levels) and temperature effects. I have started documenting trials with a series of sample vials that contain various mixtures of BD and petroleum diesel (winter diesel recently obtained from the industry) ranging from 2% BD up to 80%. I have them out on my window sill and take pics at various outdoor temperatures. The overall quality document should speak to this issue of cold temperature use I think. I will share my findings with you if you want to include it.Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Compressed air wash
Does anyone see any problems with his compressed air wash? Fuel oxidation. Todd Swearingen Thomas Kelly wrote: Hello all, A friend of mine had been bubble washing his BD using a large ring w holes in it at the bottom of his wash tank. He used an aquarium pump to bubble air through the ring for 6 - 8 hours /wash. He saw how fast and effective my stir washing was and decided to speed up his process. He compressed air into a tank (150 psi and set the regulator at 80). The air coming out of the ring causes a very turbulent mix in the wash tank. It only takes a minute or two to get a homogeneous mix of water with his 70L batch of BD. He lets it run for about 15 minutes. Is anyone else washing their BD this way? Does anyone see any problems with his compressed air wash? Any reason to run it more than the time it takes to get a homogeneous mix? Thanks, Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
