Re: [Biofuel] Sweet catalyst continuous processes
- Original Message - From: Chris Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 8:29 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Sweet catalyst continuous processes Hi Chris, Have you tried the sugar catalyst for yourself yet? Looking forward to reading your results. Who is making this catalyst in the UK? or alternatively do you have a make it at home recipe? I would love to give it a go. I am also working on a continuous processor down here in Northants, although it seems I am a few steps behind you. I would be happy to compare notes if you want. Right now on ebay uk there are a couple of very useful looking peristaltic pumps that could be used for metered feeding of methoxide and wvo into a continuous processor. Please keep me posted on your progress Regards Bob I have just got a small sample of the catalyst. I plan to make 2x 0.5 litre batches on my hotplate stirrer. 1 with lye as normal 1 with sugar. I will boil off the excess methanol and measure the quantities of byproduct produced to compare the lack of soap claims. I will do some wash tests to see how clean the diesel is. looks like instant coffee granules, it would be quite easy to enclose a quantity in a mesh cylinder and place inside one of the reactor pipes after the pump. Or even have a short length of pipe with a strainer at the downstream end filled with the stuff, just pump the mix over it repeatedly. Just unscrew the length of pipe and 'top up' when required. Maybe a piece of translucent hose could be incorporated to give a visual indication of you catalyst levels. As long as it could be removed to top it up, or have an access point upstream of the strainer to pour more in it should work fine. Chris.. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst
Looking in Prof Lin's publications, you can see a few references that appear to be about the catalyst. If you are like me and were wondering about the chemistry behind it, then perhaps check out this one: http://snipurl.com/q4no from Journal of Catalysis, 2003. (If you don't have a subscription, you may not be able to view) There are others. The list of publications can be found here: http://www.chem.iastate.edu/faculty/Victor_Lin/publication.html -John On May 6, 2006, at 11:35 PM, JJJN wrote: My mother in law sent me an article by Anne Fitzgerald writing for the (Des Moines?) Register. The article states that Victor Lin and two fellow University of Iowa Chemists have created a new catalyst that is reusable (20 times) and can be filtered. The catalyst will be quite a bit more expensive than what we are using now but will pay out over time because of the reuse. West Central cooperative is going to test the catalyst on a commercial scale. Anne Fitzgerald can be reached at 515 284 8122 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] This sounds very much like the glucose/carbon/sulfur carbon compound. BUT I do not know if it is or something new. Well lets hope this becomes available to us all very soon. My best Jim. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] NAIS - a possible plan??
Hi Mary Lynn A couple of weeks ago, I was requested to join a list no2nais4horses although I am not a horse person .. animals in general, yes .. mostly companion animals .. but not specifically horse. Well, they're quite nice but they can be a bit dumb. But Did you ever see a dead donkey? LOL! I'm put off by the horsy set, but I like the big horses, the shires and percherons and so on, for the lack of which sustainable forestry often doesn't happen, for instance. What a difference they'd make here in Japan! I like giants, they're usually wise and gentle even if they're a bit thick at times, so you can always work something out, they're big-hearted. (I've met giants who were quite the opposite too, fearsome ogres.) Donkeys are cool though, and there's lots to be said for mules. They're both smarter than horses (so are cows and sheep). Sorry, I digress. The problem with using the big horses in the forests is that it needs the kind of local community and local economy that go with big horses and forests. By about WW1 up to WW2 European forestry reached a high stage, following hundreds of years of development. It's a wonderfully useful and productive system, infinitely adaptable and flexible, and sustainable. It's as highly developed as the extraordinary range of European working dogs. I'm not just saying that because that's your topic, I do think of it that way, partly. A dog for every purpose, it just does it for you, end of problem. Different job, different dog. It's crazy not to be re-examining the traditional European forest system now, when we're entering an era where sustainable biofuels and biomass energy production are so critical, let alone sustainable economies. But traditional European forestry was designed for big horses, and smaller ones too, not for industrial extraction and the consumer society. IMHO this offers the solution to the festering forestry problems in the US with all its misuse, abuse and waste, often discussed here before, usually a heated debate. But it's not an accessible solution because the whole thing is locked up in a deadly mess of politics, corruption, corporateering and Wise Use spin and greenwashing from which it would have to be freed first. In other words it's under siege by the same kind of corporate control that NAIS threatens. The completely disgusting bird flu fiasco presents disgusting opportunities for furthering corporate-sector control of some of the essential elements of the kind of local community and local economy that go with big horses and forests. It's the same kind of local community and local economy that go with food and small farms with their poultry and grazing animals. It wipes out a lot of city farmers too. Biofuelers will find themselves in the same situation because the backbone of sustainable biofuels implementation is again the same kind of of local community and local economy that favours small farms and rational forestry, with their dispersed livestock. There are many vital links between smallscale local biofuels operations and smallscale livestock production and small farms and forests. At the top of these disgusting opportunities seems to be NAIS. It's only in the US, but it's the US that sneezes first and us later (unless it's the other way round, they do it to us first and then it backfires on them). Bird flu and the future of poultry production is certainly a global issue. I agree that NAIS is too. It's all a nasty progression of this, with Big Pharma thrown in: 'From the 1930's to the 1960's the free-range system was the popular way to raise poultry in the United states. It produced meaty, tender birds at a reasonable cost, using a reasonable amount of labor and providing valuable fertility to the land. Many farmers raised 10,000-20,000 birds per year on short-grass pasture (range), both chickens and turkeys. With the rise of industrial agriculture and the development of the confinement broiler barn, this sustainable and profitable system was discontinued by means of withdrawing growers contracts. Left with no market or processing facilities the practice was abandoned within two or three years. However, even though the system was phased out here in the U.S., it has continuing popularity in Europe, even to the point of having legislated standards. In France, in 2000, over 20% of all poultry (90 million birds!) was raised using the free-range system. Now, Herman Beck-Chenoweth has updated and modernized the techniques and named his system The Modern American Free-Range System.' http://www.free-rangepoultry.com/ Bullies. Not gentle giants. But We'd never use it for that, how could you think such a thing, you're just being paranoid and seeing conspiracy theories everywhere, trust us. That's what they just said about the big corps trying to take over the Internet too. Governments and corporations will use whatever powers we're dumb enough to give them or asleep enough
Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst
Searching the Des Moines Register website, I found this article: http://snipurl.com/q4m4 Searching the Iowa State University website, I found this article: http://snipurl.com/q4mj It says on the second article that the catalyst is made of calcium and sand, not sugar and sulfuric acid. -John On May 6, 2006, at 11:35 PM, JJJN wrote: My mother in law sent me an article by Anne Fitzgerald writing for the (Des Moines?) Register. The article states that Victor Lin and two fellow University of Iowa Chemists have created a new catalyst that is reusable (20 times) and can be filtered. The catalyst will be quite a bit more expensive than what we are using now but will pay out over time because of the reuse. West Central cooperative is going to test the catalyst on a commercial scale. Anne Fitzgerald can be reached at 515 284 8122 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] This sounds very much like the glucose/carbon/sulfur carbon compound. BUT I do not know if it is or something new. Well lets hope this becomes available to us all very soon. My best Jim. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Sweet catalyst continuous processes
Thanks for that again, are there alot of people makeing biodiesel in the UK? It is something that I have only heard on the news abit. How far are you from completeing your system has it took along time to put together, has your mate got the same system as yours. I know it sounds very nosey of me but I have not until now met anyone who can do it, its one the best things I have ever heard of.!! I am hoping to start soon and put a system together myself . I suppose it wounld make it alot easier to go and see a system or two working first? Is that what you have done? Cheers again Chris Mark From: Chris Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Sweet catalyst continuous processes Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 19:08:32 +0100 Mark` Cookson wrote: Chris Thanks for getting back to me that is great I would love to come down to sunny wigan and have a look. Thanks again for the methanol link too !!! Will contact you again soon. Cheers mate speak soon. Mark My mate got 3 drums from him today, he has put his prices up to £93 a drum. Not sure if he will just sell to anyone but if you get stuck let me know and I can always get a drum for you. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] PLEASE READ - Re: Sweet catalyst continuous processes
Keith, I just had occasion to visit the JTF site to refresh my memory re: reprocessing. (Why? see Water in Recovered Methanol Post) And was flattered to find this quote: For anyone starting out or still in the RD phase of scaling up and tweaking the process to improve quality, disregard anything other than the tried and tested directions at Journey to Forever. Read them and then re-read them. Follow the instructions, don't add or subtract anything and you will be making quality biodiesel. -- Tom Kelly, 5 Nov 2005 At the time I wrote this I had just made my first 76L batch of quality BD. It passed the wash test, the methanol solubility test and look Ma, no glycerine fell out upon reprocessing. It came on the heels of reading and re-reading the instructions at JTF and advice you gave in response to one of my pleas for help. You told me to tweak the process as I scaled up. Although I was following JTF directions roughly, I was comfortable with what seemed to be hard and fast rules re: temp, and time for the reaction, as well as assurance that my 1 clearwater pump could handle 120 -125L batches This part of the process I got from other sources. I hope you will take the quote, above, as much as an apology as a testimonial. I thought I could take a bit from here and a bit from there and make good fuel. The moral: If you can't make quality biodiesel from the instructions at JTF and with the help of list members, you probably shouldn't be making it at all! I have received off list contacts by some of the funny-named individuals you mention in your post. Their criticism of you was malicious .. the type that says more about the critic than the one criticized. They suggested that I go to the very places that had lead me astray. I hope you don't mind, I didn't bother to respond and instructed my computer to treat the source as spam. Thanks for all of your help. Tom - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2006 4:05 PM Subject: [Biofuel] PLEASE READ - Re: Sweet catalyst continuous processes Please note the bit at the end: No further discussion please. As I said, we keep it away unless it needs saying, now it's said, so leave it, or it will only cause confusion and distraction, as intended. -- Hello Jason they are discussing the sugar catalyst in detail at http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/419605551/m/9771067631/p/1 Sure they are, but if a person wanders in there the first thing that hits them is this: Saint Tilly, DD; KE; Sewer Rat (by appointment) I didn't have to fiddle with it, it worked just fine, but I fiddled with it anyway and now it works even finer Keith Addison explaining his cosmic theory of the Foolproof Disaster With ne'er a link to the original: http://snipurl.com/q2lz Re: [Biofuel] acid/base method for conversion of wvo to FAMEs Nor to this, for instance: http://snipurl.com/q210 [Biofuel] Water from Acid process And nobody says er...: http://snipurl.com/pie8 [Biofuel] Biodiesel test results 99.09% completion says the GC, way better than standard spec. So what's the disaster? This: It doesn't work. Uh-huh. But I'll come back to that. This is the barest tip of an iceberg, scratch it a bit and see what happens. Like what's with the Sewer Rat (by appointment) bit? A couple of days ago some mud got slung at the Biofuel list in a discussion at wastewatts, the yahoo group moderated by Steve Spence, Dir., Green Trust. Stuff like this: It can have a certain view and the some long time members like everyone to march to a similar tune or your read the riot act. The list owner ( Keith ), can not handle the truth, because it hurts to much. ... plenty of people have been banned because they disagreed with certain people on the list, and couldn't back up their disagreement with the proper sources. I would not parrot the bush is the antichrist partyline, and I wouldn't shut up, so I was banned. But keith will swear that it was done in the name of promoting open discussion - how Orwellian. And so on. A person named Chris Stratford started ranting that Keith is a racist and an anti-Semite and a Nazi and got quite violent: ... if I meet them in a dark alley only one of us will walk out... There are a bunch of other biodiesel groups, that actually have open debate... Keith has a great website, but if it was a choice between saving him or the rat from drowning, I will save the rat, and then throw it at him. So this clown at Infopop appoints himself the rat. Well I guess he should know, and he's in the right place too. I'm sure the wastewatts discussion is all over Infopop with the usual huge glee but I didn't bother to check, I never go there unless someone posts a url here. I received the wastewatts posts as a subscriber but I don't read anything there
[Biofuel] Sweet catalyst continuous processes
Hello Mark Thanks for that again, are there alot of people makeing biodiesel in the UK? There are lots of people making biodiesel in the UK and there have been for years. From Terry de Winne: http://www.biofuels.fsnet.co.uk/bandwagon.htm Allied Biodiesel Industries (UK) The Trade Organisation for the Smaller Producer Bandwagon, here we come! Since the tax break for biodiesel was granted in 2002, there have been hundreds (five, to be exact) of registrations with HM Customs Excise as biodiesel producers. More recent figures show that 200 have dropped out, a hundred or so are making for themselves as a hobby and the same number again are being re-classified as substitute fuels producers, not entitled to the tax break. This leaves around a hundred supplying others as a commercial enterprise, including some whose output is in the tens of thousands of tonnes a year. The production capacity in the UK, as at January 2006, was around 50,000 tonnes per annum, requiring the supply of over 50,000 tonnes of used cooking oil - no other feedstock is currently economically viable. The problem is, the amount of UCO available in the UK is estimated (by the DTI) at only 80,000 tonnes per annum. With expansion plans and new plant already being constructed taken into account, this capacity will be reached by mid-summer of 2006. It is therefore not advisable to start planning a new construction without first establishing a 100% guaranteed supply of feedstock. Failure to do so will result in either market distortion - the UCO price will go up and therefore profitability will go down - or business failures. Lack of production experience and therefore expertise, though, is the most common reason for failures - it is not as easy as the process may appear, as the web chat room pages verify! If the fuel does not meet the EN14214 standard, it could prove a liability in claims for damaged engines. In addition, legislation means that new starts will require a Prevention of Pollution and Control (PPC) Permit for all those intending to make outside of their own home or for commercial supply, costing a great deal of time and money to apply for. The Environment Agency is charged with enforcement, and they are taking their responsibilities seriously. You may even have to sink boreholes to prove that your land is not contaminated before you start! In the meantime, there have been offers of equipment by various companies - in the main, strongly criticised as being over-priced and under-resourced. For the record, you can make up your own hobby kit for under £500, but the temptation is there to do it the easy, one-stop way. Caveat emptor. Useful amateur sites - run by very experienced biodieselers - are www.mauigreenenergy.org and www.journeytoforever.org The introduction of the Renewable Transport Fuels Obligation planned for 2008 will make it economically possible to produce biodiesel from virgin oils, for bulk distribution to obligated road fuel suppliers. See also: http://www.biofuels.fsnet.co.uk/biobiz.htm UK BIODIESEL SUPPLIERS http://www.biofuels.fsnet.co.uk/ Biofuels and Sustainable Transport Energy You can find these sites via the resources listed here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_link.html Biodiesel resources on the Web There are many UK members here, many of them have been here a long time, many of them make biodiesel. There's a lot of information in the list archives about where to get things like methanol and chemicals in the UK. There are more than 60,000 messages in the list archives over the last six years, and it has a search engine. Also at the Journey to Forever website is a whole section of different processor designs you can easily build yourself, all much better than the hobby kits for under £500 that Terry mentions in his caveat, or the other hobby kits for $3,500, also sold now in the UK: You could make an excellent processor plus more than 8,000 gallons of high-quality biodiesel for that price. When you joined the list you were pointed at the list resources, and at the List rules. You're required to use the list resources please. The links are at the end of each message you receive. Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner It is something that I have only heard on the news abit. How far are you from completeing your system has it took along time to put together, has your mate got the same system as yours. I know it sounds very nosey of me but I have not until now met anyone who can do it, its one the best things I have ever heard of.!! I am hoping to start soon and put a system together myself . I suppose it wounld make it alot easier to go and see a system or two working first? Is that what you have done? Cheers again Chris Mark From: Chris Bennett chris at cbjet.clara.co.uk Reply-To: biofuel at sustainablelists.org To: biofuel at
Re: [Biofuel] Sweet catalyst continuous processes
For chemical feed, have a look at some of the Medical Infusion Pumps: they will feed up to about 1L/min. The Gemini pumps are now becoming superceeded, so may be worth looking for (These are the ubiquitous Blue box pump that were seen in Hospital scenes on TV). These could be good for injecting measured liquid chemicals. regards Doug On Sunday 07 May 2006 5:59, Bob Carr wrote: - Original Message - From: Chris Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 8:29 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Sweet catalyst continuous processes Hi Chris, Have you tried the sugar catalyst for yourself yet? Looking forward to reading your results. Who is making this catalyst in the UK? or alternatively do you have a make it at home recipe? I would love to give it a go. I am also working on a continuous processor down here in Northants, although it seems I am a few steps behind you. I would be happy to compare notes if you want. Right now on ebay uk there are a couple of very useful looking peristaltic pumps that could be used for metered feeding of methoxide and wvo into a continuous processor. Please keep me posted on your progress Regards Bob I have just got a small sample of the catalyst. I plan to make 2x 0.5 litre batches on my hotplate stirrer. 1 with lye as normal 1 with sugar. I will boil off the excess methanol and measure the quantities of byproduct produced to compare the lack of soap claims. I will do some wash tests to see how clean the diesel is. looks like instant coffee granules, it would be quite easy to enclose a quantity in a mesh cylinder and place inside one of the reactor pipes after the pump. Or even have a short length of pipe with a strainer at the downstream end filled with the stuff, just pump the mix over it repeatedly. Just unscrew the length of pipe and 'top up' when required. Maybe a piece of translucent hose could be incorporated to give a visual indication of you catalyst levels. As long as it could be removed to top it up, or have an access point upstream of the strainer to pour more in it should work fine. Chris.. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] PLEASE READ - Re: Sweet catalyst continuous processes
Hallo Keith, Just in case people weren't around during the time the list suffered from the denial of service and mail flooding time let me tell that when we changed servers it was me, Gustl Steiner-Zehender, who called for donations to defray costs not you. I handled the money and saw that it was all accounted for and properly distributed. I also was responsible for receipts for donations and due to computer problems and lost information I think that may have been mishandled although not intentionally. I believe I still owe a fellow living in Saudi Arabia a receipt for his very generous donation although it has taken me a lot of remembering to come up with that. Whoever it was please drop me an email and I will get that receipt out to you and please forgive me for the oversight. It was definitely not intentional. Again, just to be clear. Keith had absolutely NOTHING to do with the request for donations at all. It was all done by another sick old man by the name of Gustl Steiner-Zehender. Happy Happy, Gustl Saturday, 06 May, 2006, 16:05:51, you wrote: ...snip... KA The official sewer rat at Infopop and some other folks from there KA lurk around here at the Biofuel list archives like, well, like KA sewer rats, sniffing about and telling the same sort of stuff KA offlist to new members and inviting them to Infopop. List members KA complain about it. Here's one, we have quite a few, not only from KA this one, similar stuff from the Appleseed Queen and so on, whose KA biodiesel book Joe Street didn't seem to like much: Please be aware that the vast majority of the biodiesel world holds Keith Addison and his Journey to Forever site in total contempt. Keith Addison is a sick old man who begs for money on his Journey to Forever site, supposedly to help the poor and needy but he actually uses the money donated to him for his day to day expenses. The Journey to Forever site is Keith's Retirement income, is vastly out of date, and contains inaccurate and phony biodiesel information. If you are more interested in making biodiesel that listening to a Psychotic old man rant about the evils of the world, I suggest you join the Infopop biodiesel website at (I have snipped the url here. I won't advertise for that lot.) Tell them a Kindly Elf sent you. Squire Tilly KE ...snip... -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. We can't change the winds but we can adjust our sails. The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen, daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. George Carlin The best portion of a good man's life - His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love. William Wordsworth ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] jelly and jellybiofuel question
My (future) brother-in-law and I were cleaning his garage and came a cross A LOT of warped dry wall.To my knowledge, dry wall is composed mostly of gypsum, a very soft mineral composed of calcium sulfate dihydrate, with the chemical formula CaSO4·2H2O (thank you Wikipedia). We already discussed calcium acetate (egg shells) mixed with vinegar to create a kind of jelly to whichethanol can be added.http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg53392.htmlSohow about ground-up dry wall and vinegar?Mike___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] jelly and jellybiofuel question
Very good project , surely this can work too, as gypsym is better on rather than lime But need experimentar workThanking yousdPannirselvamMichael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My (future) brother-in-law and I were cleaning his garage and came a cross A LOT of warped dry wall.To my knowledge, dry wall is composed mostly of gypsum, a very soft mineral composed of calcium sulfate dihydrate, with the chemical formula CaSO4�2H2O (thank you Wikipedia). We already discussed calcium acetate (egg shells) mixed with vinegar to create a kind of jelly to whichethanol can be added.http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg53392.htmlSohow about ground-up dry wall and vinegar?Mike___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Get amazing travel prices for air and hotel in one click on Yahoo! FareChase ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] PLEASE READ - Re: Sweet catalyst continuous processes
Gustl, You are absolutely right, I remember that you were not alone and you had strong support from me among several other members on the list. I have never heard Keith request or ask for donations, on the contrary, he have always supported the biodiesel community, without asking anything in return. Maybe he sometimes, with reasons, been quite tough with some list members that was totally out of line. Gustl and Keith, between us I am probably the oldest and as it happens a little bit sick now. Nothing serious, being sick will pass, contrary to being an idiot, as the one who calls Keith a sick old man. Hakan At 16:38 07/05/2006, you wrote: Hallo Keith, Just in case people weren't around during the time the list suffered from the denial of service and mail flooding time let me tell that when we changed servers it was me, Gustl Steiner-Zehender, who called for donations to defray costs not you. I handled the money and saw that it was all accounted for and properly distributed. I also was responsible for receipts for donations and due to computer problems and lost information I think that may have been mishandled although not intentionally. I believe I still owe a fellow living in Saudi Arabia a receipt for his very generous donation although it has taken me a lot of remembering to come up with that. Whoever it was please drop me an email and I will get that receipt out to you and please forgive me for the oversight. It was definitely not intentional. Again, just to be clear. Keith had absolutely NOTHING to do with the request for donations at all. It was all done by another sick old man by the name of Gustl Steiner-Zehender. Happy Happy, Gustl Saturday, 06 May, 2006, 16:05:51, you wrote: ...snip... KA The official sewer rat at Infopop and some other folks from there KA lurk around here at the Biofuel list archives like, well, like KA sewer rats, sniffing about and telling the same sort of stuff KA offlist to new members and inviting them to Infopop. List members KA complain about it. Here's one, we have quite a few, not only from KA this one, similar stuff from the Appleseed Queen and so on, whose KA biodiesel book Joe Street didn't seem to like much: Please be aware that the vast majority of the biodiesel world holds Keith Addison and his Journey to Forever site in total contempt. Keith Addison is a sick old man who begs for money on his Journey to Forever site, supposedly to help the poor and needy but he actually uses the money donated to him for his day to day expenses. The Journey to Forever site is Keith's Retirement income, is vastly out of date, and contains inaccurate and phony biodiesel information. If you are more interested in making biodiesel that listening to a Psychotic old man rant about the evils of the world, I suggest you join the Infopop biodiesel website at (I have snipped the url here. I won't advertise for that lot.) Tell them a Kindly Elf sent you. Squire Tilly KE ...snip... -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. We can't change the winds but we can adjust our sails. The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen, daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. George Carlin The best portion of a good man's life - His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love. William Wordsworth ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst
Thank you for the information John it is helpfull now to get reading. Best Jim John Beale wrote: Looking in Prof Lin's publications, you can see a few references that appear to be about the catalyst. If you are like me and were wondering about the chemistry behind it, then perhaps check out this one: http://snipurl.com/q4no from Journal of Catalysis, 2003. (If you don't have a subscription, you may not be able to view) There are others. The list of publications can be found here: http://www.chem.iastate.edu/faculty/Victor_Lin/publication.html -John On May 6, 2006, at 11:35 PM, JJJN wrote: My mother in law sent me an article by Anne Fitzgerald writing for the (Des Moines?) Register. The article states that Victor Lin and two fellow University of Iowa Chemists have created a new catalyst that is reusable (20 times) and can be filtered. The catalyst will be quite a bit more expensive than what we are using now but will pay out over time because of the reuse. West Central cooperative is going to test the catalyst on a commercial scale. Anne Fitzgerald can be reached at 515 284 8122 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] This sounds very much like the glucose/carbon/sulfur carbon compound. BUT I do not know if it is or something new. Well lets hope this becomes available to us all very soon. My best Jim. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] PLEASE READ - Re: Sweet catalyst continuous processes
Hakan, Gustl, Keith, and all, As in a marriage, there's a shaking of the rugs occasionally on a list, where there may even be tears. It's shocking to see good people find such frustration, but it does, and I hope the fresh air is flowing in now. Dear members. How can it be that we are so rough on each other sometimes? Perhaps it's unavoidable: smart people, heartfelt issues, all of us groping toward an uncertain... whatever. This exchange has had my head in a knot. We know we must not waste our energy on negative feelings, though it happens. My two cents. Jesse From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 17:08:49 +0200 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] PLEASE READ - Re: Sweet catalyst continuous processes Gustl, You are absolutely right, I remember that you were not alone and you had strong support from me among several other members on the list. I have never heard Keith request or ask for donations, on the contrary, he have always supported the biodiesel community, without asking anything in return. Maybe he sometimes, with reasons, been quite tough with some list members that was totally out of line. Gustl and Keith, between us I am probably the oldest and as it happens a little bit sick now. Nothing serious, being sick will pass, contrary to being an idiot, as the one who calls Keith a sick old man. Hakan At 16:38 07/05/2006, you wrote: Hallo Keith, Just in case people weren't around during the time the list suffered from the denial of service and mail flooding time let me tell that when we changed servers it was me, Gustl Steiner-Zehender, who called for donations to defray costs not you. I handled the money and saw that it was all accounted for and properly distributed. I also was responsible for receipts for donations and due to computer problems and lost information I think that may have been mishandled although not intentionally. I believe I still owe a fellow living in Saudi Arabia a receipt for his very generous donation although it has taken me a lot of remembering to come up with that. Whoever it was please drop me an email and I will get that receipt out to you and please forgive me for the oversight. It was definitely not intentional. Again, just to be clear. Keith had absolutely NOTHING to do with the request for donations at all. It was all done by another sick old man by the name of Gustl Steiner-Zehender. Happy Happy, Gustl Saturday, 06 May, 2006, 16:05:51, you wrote: ...snip... KA The official sewer rat at Infopop and some other folks from there KA lurk around here at the Biofuel list archives like, well, like KA sewer rats, sniffing about and telling the same sort of stuff KA offlist to new members and inviting them to Infopop. List members KA complain about it. Here's one, we have quite a few, not only from KA this one, similar stuff from the Appleseed Queen and so on, whose KA biodiesel book Joe Street didn't seem to like much: Please be aware that the vast majority of the biodiesel world holds Keith Addison and his Journey to Forever site in total contempt. Keith Addison is a sick old man who begs for money on his Journey to Forever site, supposedly to help the poor and needy but he actually uses the money donated to him for his day to day expenses. The Journey to Forever site is Keith's Retirement income, is vastly out of date, and contains inaccurate and phony biodiesel information. If you are more interested in making biodiesel that listening to a Psychotic old man rant about the evils of the world, I suggest you join the Infopop biodiesel website at (I have snipped the url here. I won't advertise for that lot.) Tell them a Kindly Elf sent you. Squire Tilly KE ...snip... -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. We can't change the winds but we can adjust our sails. The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen, daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. George Carlin The best portion of a good man's life - His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love. William Wordsworth ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
Re: [Biofuel] jelly and jellybiofuel question
a good question from Mike, ( and indeed drywall gypsum is Calcium Sulfate dihydrate ), but not a useful answer from Pani-Very-good-project -surely-this-can-work-too-Ruti, who seams to be not hindered by any knowledge. It I'll not work, it is not because something contains calcium that the properties will be the same. ( (char)coal and diamonds are both +- pure carbon, witch one your wife likes to wear around here neck? ;-) Eggshells is mainly Calcium Carbonate ( like marble ) and that will react dissolve in many acids, also slowly in weak acids like vinegar. ... resulting in a Calcium Acetate solution. Ca(COOH)2 is very soluble in water, up to 35% at room temp. ( so may dissolve to, in other polar solvents like ethanol ) Calcium-sulfate dihydrate ( gypsum) is almost insoluble in water. And even insoluble in many acids; weak acids will do nothing (vinegar, acetic acid ...) and even cold but strong acids like Sulfuric acid (battery acid) wont do it . You need at least boiling hydrochloric acid to start dissolving it. So I can't see how gypsum from dry wallboard can help making jelly fuel. grts Bruno M. chemist ~~ At 17:03 07/05/2006, Pan Ruti wrote: Very good project , surely this can work too, as gypsym is better on rather than lime But need experimentar work Thanking you sd Pannirselvam Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My (future) brother-in-law and I were cleaning his garage and came a cross A LOT of warped dry wall. To my knowledge, dry wall is composed mostly of gypsum, a very soft mineral composed of calcium sulfate dihydrate, with the chemical formula CaSO4(2H2O) (thank you Wikipedia). We already discussed calcium acetate; (egg shells mixed with vinegar) to create a kind of jelly to which ethanol can be added. www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg53392.html Sohow about ground-up dry wall and vinegar? Mike -- ~°\^/°~~ -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst
Here is the article online (using snipurl!) http://snipurl.com/q4st If the catalyst is reusable, but only 20 times, what happens then? Can the catalyst be recycled? The details are vague but it seems that this is intentional as it seems Mr. Lin and his colleagues and especially the University of Iowa are trying to cash in on their research, not share it. Sorry if I sound like a cynic, but the article sounds more like a free informercial touting the benefits of university and industry collaboration (read - how to raise $$$ for the University) with the work with renewable fuels being only the buzzword to bind it together. Not that I don't think that there shouldn't be collaboration, it's that this is blatantly using biodiesel research as a headliner and not much else. I'm actually saddened that with all the blah, blah about being addicted to oil, that begging is still required by universities for funding of research that seems so basic and that people like Mr.Lin are forced into the commercial world when clearly it's not ready for commercialization. It does state : Grants from the U.S. Department of Agriculture, the U.S. Department of Energy and the state's Iowa Values Fund have helped support the ISU researchers' work. but that doesn't stop them from saying this: If the work with West Central shows the catalysts will work on a commercial scale, Lin may form a company to produce the catalysts. But that, as well as continuing research on campus, will take significant funding, he and others said. If we could get support from the state and from these local companies, there is no reason why it would not stay here, Lin said. I see opportunity in Iowa. Steve On Sunday 07 May 2006 03:35 pm, JJJN wrote: My mother in law sent me an article by Anne Fitzgerald writing for the (Des Moines?) Register. The article states that Victor Lin and two fellow University of Iowa Chemists have created a new catalyst that is reusable (20 times) and can be filtered. The catalyst will be quite a bit more expensive than what we are using now but will pay out over time because of the reuse. West Central cooperative is going to test the catalyst on a commercial scale. Anne Fitzgerald can be reached at 515 284 8122 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] This sounds very much like the glucose/carbon/sulfur carbon compound. BUT I do not know if it is or something new. Well lets hope this becomes available to us all very soon. My best Jim. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Steve Racz (03) 383 8167 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Sweet catalyst continuous processes
Bob Carr wrote: - Original Message - From: Chris Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 8:29 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Sweet catalyst continuous processes Hi Chris, Have you tried the sugar catalyst for yourself yet? Looking forward to reading your results. Who is making this catalyst in the UK? or alternatively do you have a make it at home recipe? I would love to give it a go. I am also working on a continuous processor down here in Northants, although it seems I am a few steps behind you. I would be happy to compare notes if you want. Right now on ebay uk there are a couple of very useful looking peristaltic pumps that could be used for metered feeding of methoxide and wvo into a continuous processor. Please keep me posted on your progress Regards Bob I have just got a small sample of the catalyst. I plan to make 2x 0.5 litre batches on my hotplate stirrer. 1 with lye as normal 1 with sugar. I will boil off the excess methanol and measure the quantities of byproduct produced to compare the lack of soap claims. I will do some wash tests to see how clean the diesel is. looks like instant coffee granules, it would be quite easy to enclose a quantity in a mesh cylinder and place inside one of the reactor pipes after the pump. Or even have a short length of pipe with a strainer at the downstream end filled with the stuff, just pump the mix over it repeatedly. Just unscrew the length of pipe and 'top up' when required. Maybe a piece of translucent hose could be incorporated to give a visual indication of you catalyst levels. As long as it could be removed to top it up, or have an access point upstream of the strainer to pour more in it should work fine. Chris.. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Tha catalyst is apparently made as follows: Place sugar into a sealed container and purge the air with notrogen, alternatively feed a small amount of nitrogen into the container during cooking to keep the air out. Heat to 350 degrees C and hold for about 15 hours (I think, not 100% on time) Then remove the burnt sugar and place in concentrated sulphuric acid at 150 degrees C for several hours. Wash repeatedly with deinonised water and then its ready for use. Have got a 2nd hand oven last week to try (dont fancy using the one in the kitchen as its going to need to go 100 degrees over the maximum!) will wire in a temperature controller next week and see if it can cope with the extra temperature. My processor is not continuous, but more like semi-continuous. I have designed it on the assumptions that: the more vigarous the mixing the quicker the reaction. the higher the temperature the greater the energy available to make the reaction happen the pressure needed because of the high temperature operation will also increase the energy available. I read a paper about some studies using 'supercritical' methanol and claims were made of reaction times on small samples being quoted in seconds! The processor consists of 3 stages each stage has a mixer and contains 6 litres. A pair of stainless pnumatic cylinders will push measured quantities of oil and methoxide in every x minuites (x to be determined my trial and error) the fresh mix will consist of 3 litres and will displace 3 litres from reactor 1 into reactor 2 where it will recieve another x minuites of mixing, the next charge will displace it into reactor 3 and so on until it gets spat out into an evaporator tower at a temperature where the methanol should start to flash off immediately. After leaving the heated evaporator it will enter a seperating tower sized so that seperation only has to occur over about 2.3cm of depth. The products will be injected into the seperating tower at the point of seperation and this will allow a good several hours of seperating time before it overflows from the top. Glycerine will be drained automatically using an optical sensor at the bottom of the tower. I need to experiment with the results of Magnesol washing to see if the wash stage can also be included into the processor. I currently produce only about 4-500 litres a month and I collect my oil monthly. The legislation in the UK means I have to
Re: [Biofuel] Please read
Hi Keith, indeed your story is very enligthening,a little footnot i like to add: The South African government when seeking to establish the "black cantons"came to Canada to learn about Canada's First Nation's reservationsystem... Since it was such a huge "success" in the eyes of Westerngovernments. They didn't go to the US for that. Nope... Canada Notsomething to be too proud of! Fritz ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Poll in favor of Nukes on Iran
just received Fritz Poll: Strong U.S. Support for Bombing Iran An Internet poll sponsored by NewsMax.com reveals that Americans are overwhelmingly in favor of the United States undertaking military action to stop Iran's nuclear weapons program. Nearly 60,000 people have taken part in the poll so far, and more than nine out of 10 say U.S. efforts to contain Iran's weapons program are not working. A large majority of respondents also believe that Iran poses a greater threat than Saddam Hussein did before the Iraq War. NewsMax will provide the results of this poll to major media and share them with radio talk-show hosts across the country. Here are the poll questions and results:1) Do you believe U.S. efforts to contain Iran's nuclear weapons program are working?Working: 7 percentNot Working: 93 percent 2) Should the United States rely solely on the U.N. to stop Iran's nuclear weapons program?Yes: 11 percentNo: 89 percent 3) Do you believe Iran poses a greater threat than Saddam Hussein did before the Iraq War?Yes: 88 percentNo: 12 percent 4) Should the U.S. undertake military action against Iran to stop their program?Yes: 77 percentNo: 23 percent 5) Who should undertake military action against Iran first?U.S.: 45 percentIsrael: 35 percentNeither: 20 percent ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] PLEASE READ - Re: Sweet catalyst continuous processes
Mark, How can it be that we are so rough on each other sometimes? Humans tend to create their own hell all by themselves. Just because they choose to do so doesn't mean that everyone else should join them in the sulfur pit, or pig pit as the case may be. Perhaps it's unavoidable: No. It's almost always a matter of choice. Often really peculiar choices predicated upon some even more peculiar inner workings in some very peculiar brains. smart people, If they were, they wouldn't. heartfelt issues, If the issues were the focal point the mindlessness wouldn't persist. all of us groping toward an uncertain... whatever. No gray areas on these matters. Just gray matter that's seriously befuddled amongst some. This exchange has had my head in a knot. That's precisely where some would like for it to be. Generate confusion, anger and frustration and those feeling such knots and ills will oft migrate to whomever coddles them more readily, not necessarily the places where they can find the best answers. We know we must not waste our energy on negative feelings, though it happens. It's not a matter of feeling, but facts. Give people enough rope to hang themselves and those in their fits of rage, animosity, revenge or lack of reason generally do. Sometimes people are hell bent on destruction, not only of anything worthwhile, but often themselves. A reasonably wise course is to protect and preserve what you can and let the idiots bungee jump with their over-lengthed ropes. Todd Swearingen mark manchester wrote: Hakan, Gustl, Keith, and all, As in a marriage, there's a shaking of the rugs occasionally on a list, where there may even be tears. It's shocking to see good people find such frustration, but it does, and I hope the fresh air is flowing in now. Dear members. How can it be that we are so rough on each other sometimes? Perhaps it's unavoidable: smart people, heartfelt issues, all of us groping toward an uncertain... whatever. This exchange has had my head in a knot. We know we must not waste our energy on negative feelings, though it happens. My two cents. Jesse From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 17:08:49 +0200 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] PLEASE READ - Re: Sweet catalyst continuous processes Gustl, You are absolutely right, I remember that you were not alone and you had strong support from me among several other members on the list. I have never heard Keith request or ask for donations, on the contrary, he have always supported the biodiesel community, without asking anything in return. Maybe he sometimes, with reasons, been quite tough with some list members that was totally out of line. Gustl and Keith, between us I am probably the oldest and as it happens a little bit sick now. Nothing serious, being sick will pass, contrary to being an idiot, as the one who calls Keith a sick old man. Hakan At 16:38 07/05/2006, you wrote: Hallo Keith, Just in case people weren't around during the time the list suffered from the denial of service and mail flooding time let me tell that when we changed servers it was me, Gustl Steiner-Zehender, who called for donations to defray costs not you. I handled the money and saw that it was all accounted for and properly distributed. I also was responsible for receipts for donations and due to computer problems and lost information I think that may have been mishandled although not intentionally. I believe I still owe a fellow living in Saudi Arabia a receipt for his very generous donation although it has taken me a lot of remembering to come up with that. Whoever it was please drop me an email and I will get that receipt out to you and please forgive me for the oversight. It was definitely not intentional. Again, just to be clear. Keith had absolutely NOTHING to do with the request for donations at all. It was all done by another sick old man by the name of Gustl Steiner-Zehender. Happy Happy, Gustl Saturday, 06 May, 2006, 16:05:51, you wrote: ...snip... KA The official sewer rat at Infopop and some other folks from there KA lurk around here at the Biofuel list archives like, well, like KA sewer rats, sniffing about and telling the same sort of stuff KA offlist to new members and inviting them to Infopop. List members KA complain about it. Here's one, we have quite a few, not only from KA this one, similar stuff from the Appleseed Queen and so on, whose KA biodiesel book Joe Street didn't seem to like much: Please be aware that the vast majority of the biodiesel world holds Keith Addison and his Journey to Forever site in total contempt. Keith Addison is a sick old man who begs for money on his Journey to Forever site, supposedly to help the poor and needy but he actually uses the money donated to him for his day to day expenses. The Journey
Re: [Biofuel] PLEASE READ - Re: Sweet catalyst continuous processes
Hello Mike Hey, I just wanted to put in my $.02 about Steve Spence. I was a member of both wastewatts and 12VDC - both moderated (or owned) by Steve Spence. I invited him to speak at my local section of ASME, of which I chair. He was well received and found to be entertaining by the membership. Since then, I've become frustrated by the ceiling of knowledge one encounters with both of these groups. Steve is a pretty good study and I've seen him accurately regurgitate a lot of technical information. However, don't expect a great deal of theoretical knowledge or analytical abilities when discussing things conceptually. That seems sound, and it's fair enough, not necessarily a limitation, it depends on the context. After all, Steve's the king of the one-liner. It works well, but then he keeps saying things like oxidation is a non-issue, brushing aside EN 14214 as mere rumour (along with JtF). No need for facts, that's just the way it is, only it's not. I finally left both groups after dissenting to another members opinion about deforestation and how he claimed that there are more trees now than at the founding of this country. I sent a prickly reply that even Todd might be proud of. This mindless debate was on top of already mounting frustration about the group looking more like an extended infomercial for batteries and off-grid appliances. While others were building shopping lists and pretending they worked for consumer reports, I wanted to conspire with other members and design inverters and AC motor controls (for example). My hopes were that the schematics and other technical details could be published in the public domain and help those who couldn't (or didn't want to) simply buy everything. What helped expedite my decision was finding out that Steve screens every message He does? I didn't know that. We put new members on auto-moderation for their first posts, or rather the list puts them there, it's automatic, and after that it's open. I thought everyone did it that way. Steve's got the time for that? I do know a couple of lists that screen everything but they use a whole team. then, he explained This isn't a democracy. He closed with a smug smiley face. You surprise me. In fact very few lists are real democracies, but that's crude. I believe that Steve might be on this list and laying low with an alias. If so, I doubt he will acknowledge any wrong doing. He might be, I don't know - maybe not, he might hate the politics too much. I'm sure you'd be right about the wrong doing though. One final note: Of all the name listed in this thread, I haven't seen anyone mention the arrogant behavior of another list owner - Laren Corie. He runs a couple of YG's including refrigerator alternatives and a woodgas group. I know about him, I'd have to agree. But he's kept right away from the Biofuel list and JtF, and of course I was trying to make it as compact as possible while trying to do it justice, so it's only the main characters, and not all of them. A long time ago there was a discussion about the difficulties of running a list, at IIRC the old Biodiesel list at Yahoo before it hit the rocks. Somebody said it was impossible for a list owner not to impose his own personal opinions on a list. Steve agreed, and said he knew it from his own experience of running BBs back in the 90s. I said it was nonsense, newspaper journalists do it all the time as a matter of course, and I probably I said a bit more about it as well. No reply, strong disagreement but no viable counter argument. Not for the last time as it happened. Some people run very cool lists, but I can see a lot of list owners don't have the skill for it, the solutions they find are clumsy and primitive. All those wheels have long since been invented but they don't know it. Why would they, they're not common skills. There aren't a lot of journalists running lists, I don't think. Can you imagine what it would cost to get a top-ranking journo to run a list like this? Paying that kind of money would distort the whole thing. My problem is I do it in my spare time and I'm always short of spare time. Well, we do what we can. Thanks for this Mike, but I think we should stop now. Best Keith Mike Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yo dee ho Keith, This offlist stuff these folks do here happens especially if anyone mentions Aleks's Foolproof acid-base method, they really hateAleks, though they've never encountered him in any way. He's at Journey to Forever but they're not, you see. (They hate Todd Swearingen too.) Sniffle..., smurf..., snif..., huck. My feelings are oh so hurt. As girl Mark and Ginny in Denver so helpfully pointed out, forget everything there and start over. Doh!!! And then the self-appointed expert, at least expert enough as to declare others less than capable - that would be the poor dear Ginny in Denver - just couldn't seem to identify how or
Re: [Biofuel] PLEASE READ - Re: Sweet catalyst continuous processes
Thankyou Gustl You're right, I didn't think of that. It was a great help at the time. I didn't think of it because I'm sure these guys are talking about the Please support Journey to Forever button on the pages at our website, which takes you to a donations page. I wandered into Infopop a while back and chucked a cat amongst their pigeons over this fraudulent donations stuff after I found out about it and wandered straight out again. I think I said their estimates were out by a factor of 313 times. About par for their course. We don't expect to make money from donations. The money we do get helps and we certainly appreciate it, but it's dribs and drabs and doesn't amount to much. It never does on a website like ours, no matter how many hits it gets. It's not a 501c or whatever it's called registered charity with tax benefits, it's not a religious site either, it's just a website. The main reason we put the Support button there was because we kept getting enquiries from people and then someone told us outright to do it, not only for our sakes but because people want to help and often making a donation is the only way they can do so, you have to make it possible for them. I'm sure that's true. People making donations are pleased to do it, they say so. We're always skint and struggling, but in a way it's not so much for their money content that we appreciate the donations. We appreciate some of the feedback we get in the same way, though it doesn't come with money attached. Hallo Keith, Just in case people weren't around during the time the list suffered from the denial of service and mail flooding time let me tell that when we changed servers it was me, Gustl Steiner-Zehender, who called for donations to defray costs not you. I handled the money and saw that it was all accounted for and properly distributed. I also was responsible for receipts for donations and due to computer problems and lost information I think that may have been mishandled although not intentionally. I believe I still owe a fellow living in Saudi Arabia a receipt for his very generous donation although it has taken me a lot of remembering to come up with that. Whoever it was please drop me an email and I will get that receipt out to you and please forgive me for the oversight. It was definitely not intentional. Again, just to be clear. Keith had absolutely NOTHING to do with the request for donations at all. It was all done by another sick old man by the name of Gustl Steiner-Zehender. LOL! Gustl, if you and me and Hakan are all sick old men then who needs healthy? Happy Happy, And to you. Thanks again. Regards Keith Gustl Saturday, 06 May, 2006, 16:05:51, you wrote: ...snip... KA The official sewer rat at Infopop and some other folks from there KA lurk around here at the Biofuel list archives like, well, like KA sewer rats, sniffing about and telling the same sort of stuff KA offlist to new members and inviting them to Infopop. List members KA complain about it. Here's one, we have quite a few, not only from KA this one, similar stuff from the Appleseed Queen and so on, whose KA biodiesel book Joe Street didn't seem to like much: Please be aware that the vast majority of the biodiesel world holds Keith Addison and his Journey to Forever site in total contempt. Keith Addison is a sick old man who begs for money on his Journey to Forever site, supposedly to help the poor and needy but he actually uses the money donated to him for his day to day expenses. The Journey to Forever site is Keith's Retirement income, is vastly out of date, and contains inaccurate and phony biodiesel information. If you are more interested in making biodiesel that listening to a Psychotic old man rant about the evils of the world, I suggest you join the Infopop biodiesel website at (I have snipped the url here. I won't advertise for that lot.) Tell them a Kindly Elf sent you. Squire Tilly KE ...snip... ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] PLEASE READ - Re: Sweet catalyst continuous processes
Hi dee hi Todd Yo dee ho Keith, This offlist stuff these folks do here happens especially if anyone mentions Aleks's Foolproof acid-base method, they really hate Aleks, though they've never encountered him in any way. He's at Journey to Forever but they're not, you see. (They hate Todd Swearingen too.) Sniffle..., smurf..., snif..., huck. My feelings are oh so hurt. :-) Well I'm not going to give you a methoxide icecream to cheer you up like the other guy. As girl Mark and Ginny in Denver so helpfully pointed out, forget everything there and start over. Doh!!! And then the self-appointed expert, at least expert enough as to declare others less than capable - that would be the poor dear Ginny in Denver - just couldn't seem to identify how or where she had fouled up a five gallon batch and started asking for help from anyone who had some insight. Had she not forgotten everything she had read at JTF (as she's instructed everyone else to do) it's rather doubtful that the dear would have found herself in midst of such a problem without a clue as to how to extract herself. That's funny! Oh well. People pick their own poison. But they should keep them to themselves. http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg37170.html I'd all but forgotten dear Mr. Legge. I still can't forgive myself for outing him (not!) and his nom de plume. Funny that. I don't think he's ever forgiven me either, sniff..., smurf..., snuffle..., snarf. There, I knew you'd cheer up even without the methoxide icecream. The dumb thing was that he complained like mad when you outed him and said you'd jeopardised his career and so on, but all you did was notice what he'd posted himself at the very same place before he adopted the nom-de-plume. What a bonehead. Anyhow, thanks for the stroll down memory lane Keith. A nice, tidy, compressed nutshell of a package of destruction that's really screwed a lot of people that could have been doing a lot of good. Yes. Real pity about all the collateral. Glad you still take some time to check the bilge pumps and make sure the sewage and it's rats don't decimate the entire grassroots biodiesel sector. Maintenance and hygiene you know. Otherwise we'd all go down with virtual bird flu or something. Or BSE I suppose if it's left to this lot. Now if you'll forgive me, I'm headed to the pantry for a pint of black and tan and then I'm off to fake another 325 gallons of acid/base biodiesel..., you know..., Aleks' method that doesn't work. I'm glad you're wasting your precious time in such a productive way. It's amazing that it doesn't work so well, so many people find that. It doesn't work really well with me too, I get great bad results. LOL! Ah well, enough of the freak show, let's leave it now. Regards Keith Todd Swearingen Keith Addison wrote: Please note the bit at the end: snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] PLEASE READ - Re: Sweet catalyst continuous processes
Hi Hakan Gustl, You are absolutely right, I remember that you were not alone and you had strong support from me among several other members on the list. I have never heard Keith request or ask for donations, on the contrary, he have always supported the biodiesel community, without asking anything in return. Maybe he sometimes, with reasons, been quite tough with some list members that was totally out of line. Gustl and Keith, between us I am probably the oldest and as it happens a little bit sick now. I'm sorry to hear that. Please take good care of yourself Hakan. Nothing serious, being sick will pass, contrary to being an idiot, as the one who calls Keith a sick old man. Well, yes. Thankyou. That won't pass, will it. I don't think that old dog is going to be learning any new tricks, it's too late now. It's terrible what some people inflict on their lives. It's hard to summon much sympathy though, sometimes. Okay, I don't really try, it's true. It's not often a person gets the chance to live a human life, it's quite rare, one shouldn't waste such a good opportunity. - Prema, Northern Buddhist nun. The slings and arrows of outrageous idiots. Never mind, I don't. Thankyou Hakan. Get well soon. Love to Marta. Regards Keith Hakan At 16:38 07/05/2006, you wrote: Hallo Keith, Just in case people weren't around during the time the list suffered from the denial of service and mail flooding time let me tell that when we changed servers it was me, Gustl Steiner-Zehender, who called for donations to defray costs not you. I handled the money and saw that it was all accounted for and properly distributed. I also was responsible for receipts for donations and due to computer problems and lost information I think that may have been mishandled although not intentionally. I believe I still owe a fellow living in Saudi Arabia a receipt for his very generous donation although it has taken me a lot of remembering to come up with that. Whoever it was please drop me an email and I will get that receipt out to you and please forgive me for the oversight. It was definitely not intentional. Again, just to be clear. Keith had absolutely NOTHING to do with the request for donations at all. It was all done by another sick old man by the name of Gustl Steiner-Zehender. Happy Happy, Gustl Saturday, 06 May, 2006, 16:05:51, you wrote: ...snip... KA The official sewer rat at Infopop and some other folks from there KA lurk around here at the Biofuel list archives like, well, like KA sewer rats, sniffing about and telling the same sort of stuff KA offlist to new members and inviting them to Infopop. List members KA complain about it. Here's one, we have quite a few, not only from KA this one, similar stuff from the Appleseed Queen and so on, whose KA biodiesel book Joe Street didn't seem to like much: Please be aware that the vast majority of the biodiesel world holds Keith Addison and his Journey to Forever site in total contempt. Keith Addison is a sick old man who begs for money on his Journey to Forever site, supposedly to help the poor and needy but he actually uses the money donated to him for his day to day expenses. The Journey to Forever site is Keith's Retirement income, is vastly out of date, and contains inaccurate and phony biodiesel information. If you are more interested in making biodiesel that listening to a Psychotic old man rant about the evils of the world, I suggest you join the Infopop biodiesel website at (I have snipped the url here. I won't advertise for that lot.) Tell them a Kindly Elf sent you. Squire Tilly KE ...snip... -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. We can't change the winds but we can adjust our sails. The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen, daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. George Carlin The best portion of a good man's life - His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love. William Wordsworth ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] PLEASE READ - Re: Sweet catalyst continuous processes
Hello Tom Keith, I just had occasion to visit the JTF site to refresh my memory re: reprocessing. (Why? see Water in Recovered Methanol Post) And was flattered to find this quote: For anyone starting out or still in the RD phase of scaling up and tweaking the process to improve quality, disregard anything other than the tried and tested directions at Journey to Forever. Read them and then re-read them. Follow the instructions, don't add or subtract anything and you will be making quality biodiesel. -- Tom Kelly, 5 Nov 2005 There are a few others from you there too, in various places. That's a very useful one! I added a lot of snippets from list members to the website in the last six months or so, I think it adds a lot of value. I didn't always name people in full, I just did what seemed apt for the case, and of course I didn't include email addresses or anything. I hope nobody minds. Actually it's common enough practice anyway, it's in the public domain anyway and it's quite okay to use quotes from people this way. You still own the copyright of course, if that interests you, and I've tried to attribute it correctly. At the time I wrote this I had just made my first 76L batch of quality BD. It passed the wash test, the methanol solubility test and look Ma, no glycerine fell out upon reprocessing. It came on the heels of reading and re-reading the instructions at JTF and advice you gave in response to one of my pleas for help. You told me to tweak the process as I scaled up. Although I was following JTF directions roughly, I was comfortable with what seemed to be hard and fast rules re: temp, and time for the reaction, as well as assurance that my 1 clearwater pump could handle 120 -125L batches This part of the process I got from other sources. I hope you will take the quote, above, as much as an apology as a testimonial. I thought I could take a bit from here and a bit from there and make good fuel. The moral: If you can't make quality biodiesel from the instructions at JTF and with the help of list members, you probably shouldn't be making it at all! I didn't know this Tom, thanks for telling me. No apology required though, heavens. That's how I'd go about it I guess, an eclectic approach makes sense. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way anymore with biodiesel. What a pity. That's pretty much my reason for putting your quote there rather than saying JtF is the greatest, there's more sheer junk out there than anyone should expect to find. I didn't realise how true it was. Well, I'm really glad you made it! I have received off list contacts by some of the funny-named individuals you mention in your post. Oh dear. Their criticism of you was malicious .. the type that says more about the critic than the one criticized. They suggested that I go to the very places that had lead me astray. I hope you don't mind, I didn't bother to respond and instructed my computer to treat the source as spam. I'm sorry you were bothered. I think most people have your reaction though, or at least quite a few have told me so. I can't help thinking that people who fall for it are probably better off somewhere else anyway. Or maybe that it's us who're better off if they're somewhere else. Or both. Well, that's the role of the pest in an organic system, and I think I said the other day the list is organically grown, and so is JtF, or if I didn't I meant to. Thankyou pests. What a weird world. Regards Keith Thanks for all of your help. Tom - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2006 4:05 PM Subject: [Biofuel] PLEASE READ - Re: Sweet catalyst continuous processes Please note the bit at the end: No further discussion please. As I said, we keep it away unless it needs saying, now it's said, so leave it, or it will only cause confusion and distraction, as intended. -- Hello Jason they are discussing the sugar catalyst in detail at http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/419605551/m/977 1067631/p/1 Sure they are, but if a person wanders in there the first thing that hits them is this: Saint Tilly, DD; KE; Sewer Rat (by appointment) I didn't have to fiddle with it, it worked just fine, but I fiddled with it anyway and now it works even finer Keith Addison explaining his cosmic theory of the Foolproof Disaster With ne'er a link to the original: http://snipurl.com/q2lz Re: [Biofuel] acid/base method for conversion of wvo to FAMEs Nor to this, for instance: http://snipurl.com/q210 [Biofuel] Water from Acid process And nobody says er...: http://snipurl.com/pie8 [Biofuel] Biodiesel test results 99.09% completion says the GC, way better than standard spec. So what's the disaster? This: It doesn't work. Uh-huh. But I'll come back to that. This is the barest tip of an
Re: [Biofuel] PLEASE READ - Re: Sweet catalyst continuous processes
And the winner is...we interrupt this program to bring you this important message...oh man, N...but unfortunately yes, we seldom hear the rest of the story (of the story that really matters). Thanks Keith for this post. Mike You're welcome Mike. Nonetheless I hope it doesn't happen again! But in the less than charming world of online biodiesel who can tell. It's puzzling - what attracts these people to biodiesel, of all things? Kind of mundane isn't it, if you were desperate for your 15 minutes would you choose biodiesel? I mean, who cares? Weird. Best Keith - Original Message - From: Keith Addison mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2006 3:05 PM Subject: [Biofuel] PLEASE READ - Re: Sweet catalyst continuous processes snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst
John, It says the particles are made of sand and calcium. The actual catalysts are attached to the surface of the particle and the active catalyst compound is not described (except to call them mixed oxides). I say catalysts because they mention having both acid and base catalysts on the same particles. by creating a mixed oxide catalyst that has both acidic and basic catalytic sites. Acidic catalysts on the particle can convert the free fatty acids to biodiesel while basic catalysts can convert the oils into fuel. Mike McGinness John Beale wrote: Searching the Des Moines Register website, I found this article: http://snipurl.com/q4m4 Searching the Iowa State University website, I found this article: http://snipurl.com/q4mj It says on the second article that the catalyst is made of calcium and sand, not sugar and sulfuric acid. -John On May 6, 2006, at 11:35 PM, JJJN wrote: My mother in law sent me an article by Anne Fitzgerald writing for the (Des Moines?) Register. The article states that Victor Lin and two fellow University of Iowa Chemists have created a new catalyst that is reusable (20 times) and can be filtered. The catalyst will be quite a bit more expensive than what we are using now but will pay out over time because of the reuse. West Central cooperative is going to test the catalyst on a commercial scale. Anne Fitzgerald can be reached at 515 284 8122 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] This sounds very much like the glucose/carbon/sulfur carbon compound. BUT I do not know if it is or something new. Well lets hope this becomes available to us all very soon. My best Jim. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Get well Hakan,
Hakan, I hope you are feeling better. You are one of the stalwarts of the list. I always look forward to your postings. regards Doug On Monday 08 May 2006 1:08, Hakan Falk wrote: Gustl, You are absolutely right, I remember that you were not alone and you had strong support from me among several other members on the list. I have never heard Keith request or ask for donations, on the contrary, he have always supported the biodiesel community, without asking anything in return. Maybe he sometimes, with reasons, been quite tough with some list members that was totally out of line. Gustl and Keith, between us I am probably the oldest and as it happens a little bit sick now. Nothing serious, being sick will pass, contrary to being an idiot, as the one who calls Keith a sick old man. Hakan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Poll in favor of Nukes on Iran
Fritz, Have a strong feeling of dejavu and this time I will save the info in a special place. Pre Iraq, I saw similar figures and also some support on this list. Today it is overwhelming negative numbers in support for the Iraq war and approval ratings for the president. Maybe I should frame this, for future use. Talk about a violent population, 77% in support of military action and killing Iranians. In two years we will have 65% in denial and against the US engagement in Iran. It will be an even bigger mess than Iraq, with attacks all over the world. Hakan At 20:07 07/05/2006, you wrote: just received Fritz Poll: Strong U.S. Support for Bombing Iran An Internet poll sponsored by NewsMax.com reveals that Americans are overwhelmingly in favor of the United States undertaking military action to stop Iran's nuclear weapons program. Nearly 60,000 people have taken part in the poll so far, and more than nine out of 10 say U.S. efforts to contain Iran's weapons program are not working. A large majority of respondents also believe that Iran poses a greater threat than Saddam Hussein did before the Iraq War. NewsMax will provide the results of this poll to major media and share them with radio talk-show hosts across the country. Here are the poll questions and results: 1) Do you believe U.S. efforts to contain Iran's nuclear weapons program are working? Working: 7 percent Not Working: 93 percent 2) Should the United States rely solely on the U.N. to stop Iran's nuclear weapons program? Yes: 11 percent No: 89 percent 3) Do you believe Iran poses a greater threat than Saddam Hussein did before the Iraq War? Yes: 88 percent No: 12 percent 4) Should the U.S. undertake military action against Iran to stop their program? Yes: 77 percent No: 23 percent 5) Who should undertake military action against Iran first? U.S.: 45 percent Israel: 35 percent Neither: 20 percent ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] PLEASE READ - Re: Sweet catalyst continuous processes
Todd, thanks for your response. I read you very often and I respect your views SO MUCH, but here, you just look angry. Wait, let me read it again. Oops, I don't know if this changes anything, but we have a gender confusion here that I should rectify. Actually, that brings to mind a funny story about going once to a club in Switzerland where the MC was a beautiful woman and was a WONDERful host, and at the end of the night she took off her wig. Yikes! A guy! I was FLOORED!! The original deception! I was so surprised, and that's why I'm telling you that my address has my husband's name and it's confusing for everyone and I'm very sorry about this. Whew! Let's go on? We may be lucky enough to have a lot of gay list members and this wasn't where I was going with this. Not my point. Time to scroll down. From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 14:50:25 -0400 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] PLEASE READ - Re: Sweet catalyst continuous processes Mark, How can it be that we are so rough on each other sometimes? Humans tend to create their own hell all by themselves. Just because they choose to do so doesn't mean that everyone else should join them in the sulfur pit, or pig pit as the case may be. What are you saying here? Of course we don't join them in the sulphur pit. Perhaps it's unavoidable: No. It's almost always a matter of choice. Often really peculiar choices predicated upon some even more peculiar inner workings in some very peculiar brains. Yes, sir, we make choices on very odd reasoning sometimes. For instance, we like apples, not apricots. It can be very personal, random and ridiculous. smart people, If they were, they wouldn't. Anyone can be wrong, Todd. I feel like a dork writing this now. But we are two people at our computers, typing. The context is this wonderful sustainability list, which gives us so much, and which WE SHAPE DAILY with the spirit that we give it. (Mainly that you and Keith, dear Gustl, Hakan, the many Mikes, Pan Ruti and Joe give it... I am just a fly on the wall.) heartfelt issues, If the issues were the focal point the mindlessness wouldn't persist. Grrr! all of us groping toward an uncertain... whatever. No gray areas on these matters. Just gray matter that's seriously befuddled amongst some. This exchange has had my head in a knot. That's precisely where some would like for it to be. Generate confusion, anger and frustration and those feeling such knots and ills will oft migrate to whomever coddles them more readily, not necessarily the places where they can find the best answers. We know we must not waste our energy on negative feelings, though it happens. It's not a matter of feeling, but facts. Give people enough rope to hang themselves and those in their fits of rage, animosity, revenge or lack of reason generally do. Of COURSE it's a matter of feelings. Wait a sec, look at that paragraph: Fits of rage, revenge or lack of reason... these ARE feelings. People get desperate when they aren't getting their feelings acknowledged. Okay, jump on me, but that's true, look at it. Even Bush, god help us. He's just a man, I mean, a person, he takes his pants off at night and worries about what he'll wear tomorrow. Oh crap, I'm really gonna get it for that one. Sometimes people are hell bent on destruction, not only of anything worthwhile, but often themselves. A reasonably wise course is to protect and preserve what you can and let the idiots bungee jump with their over-lengthed ropes. Humm. I'm in this camp. I have four children who are (I bend my head over the keyboard) wonderful kids. I'm deeply grateful to have them in our lives. I think there's a lot of good reason to feel optimistic about the next few years. They are taking it on, if you get my meaning. They feel responsible, there is a terrible responsibility, in fact, as I have mentioned to Keith already. Todd Swearingen Cheers to all, you are very dear to me, fellows. Jesse mark manchester wrote: Hakan, Gustl, Keith, and all, As in a marriage, there's a shaking of the rugs occasionally on a list, where there may even be tears. It's shocking to see good people find such frustration, but it does, and I hope the fresh air is flowing in now. Dear members. How can it be that we are so rough on each other sometimes? Perhaps it's unavoidable: smart people, heartfelt issues, all of us groping toward an uncertain... whatever. This exchange has had my head in a knot. We know we must not waste our energy on negative feelings, though it happens. My two cents. Jesse From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 17:08:49 +0200 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] PLEASE READ - Re: Sweet catalyst continuous processes Gustl, You
Re: [Biofuel] Poll in favor of Nukes on Iran
Maybe the high fructose corn syrup and beef lobby subsidies that makes us the fattest country in the world, also contributes to short term memory loss,an even bigger killer in the US.(BTW) Do you think Steven Colbert stays awake at night, worried that he'll run out of material - even if he doesn't have a repeat customer at the White House?MikeHakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fritz,Have a strong feeling of dejavu and this time I will save the info in a special place. Pre Iraq, I saw similar figures and also some support on this list. Today it is overwhelming negative numbers in support for the Iraq war and approval ratings for the president. Maybe I should frame this, for future use.Talk about a violent population, 77% in support of military action and killing Iranians. In two years we will have 65% in denial and against the US engagement in Iran. It will be an even bigger mess than Iraq, with attacks all over the world.HakanAt 20:07 07/05/2006, you wrote:just receivedFritzPoll: Strong U.S. Support for Bombing IranAn Internet poll sponsored by NewsMax.com reveals that Americans are overwhelmingly in favor of the United States undertaking military action to stop Iran's nuclear weapons program.Nearly 60,000 people have taken part in the poll so far, and more than nine out of 10 say U.S. efforts to contain Iran's weapons program are not working.A large majority of respondents also believe that Iran poses a greater threat than Saddam Hussein did before the Iraq War.NewsMax will provide the results of this poll to major media and share them with radio talk-show hosts across the country.Here are the poll questions and results:1) Do you believe U.S. efforts to contain Iran's nuclear weapons program are working?Working: 7 percentNot Working: 93 percent2) Should the United States rely solely on the U.N. to stop Iran's nuclear weapons program?Yes: 11 percentNo: 89 percent3) Do you believe Iran poses a greater threat than Saddam Hussein did before the Iraq War?Yes: 88 percentNo: 12 percent4) Should the U.S. undertake military action against Iran to stop their program?Yes: 77 percentNo: 23 percent5) Who should undertake military action against Iran first?U.S.: 45 percentIsrael: 35 percentNeither: 20 percent___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Poll in favor of Nukes on Iran
Hakan, indeed dejea vu, once the propagandamachine works as fine as it does in the US,all out war is'nt far away! The whole polemic about the communist threat BS, it was and is always the migthy US who uses Nukes to intimidate the rest of the world! I dispise them for it and can not help to blame the ordinary US Citicen.As a German i felt long time the blame for the wrong doeings of the Nazis even i was born in 48! eh bien and so on... Get better Hakan,there is no time to loose Fritz - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 5:23 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Poll in favor of Nukes on Iran Fritz,Have a strong feeling of dejavu and this time I will save the info in a special place. Pre Iraq, I saw similar figures and also some support on this list. Today it is overwhelming negative numbers in support for the Iraq war and approval ratings for the president. Maybe I should frame this, for future use.Talk about a violent population, 77% in support of military action and killing Iranians. In two years we will have 65% in denial and against the US engagement in Iran. It will be an even bigger mess than Iraq, with attacks all over the world.HakanAt 20:07 07/05/2006, you wrote:just receivedFritzPoll: Strong U.S. Support for Bombing IranAn Internet poll sponsored by NewsMax.com reveals that Americans are overwhelmingly in favor of the United States undertaking military action to stop Iran's nuclear weapons program.Nearly 60,000 people have taken part in the poll so far, and more than nine out of 10 say U.S. efforts to contain Iran's weapons program are not working.A large majority of respondents also believe that Iran poses a greater threat than Saddam Hussein did before the Iraq War.NewsMax will provide the results of this poll to major media and share them with radio talk-show hosts across the country.Here are the poll questions and results:1) Do you believe U.S. efforts to contain Iran's nuclear weapons program are working?Working: 7 percentNot Working: 93 percent2) Should the United States rely solely on the U.N. to stop Iran's nuclear weapons program?Yes: 11 percentNo: 89 percent3) Do you believe Iran poses a greater threat than Saddam Hussein did before the Iraq War?Yes: 88 percentNo: 12 percent4) Should the U.S. undertake military action against Iran to stop their program?Yes: 77 percentNo: 23 percent5) Who should undertake military action against Iran first?U.S.: 45 percentIsrael: 35 percentNeither: 20 percent___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst
Mike, I think you have hit it on the head, The sugar catalyst is plays the role of the Acid in the two stage reaction but I don't think it will complete a reaction all on its own. And the fact that it is reusable is on its own a benefit but unless times and temps are increase beyond the layman grasp I remain very skeptical of it. Now on the other hand this IA State catalyst really shows promise as it would eliminate washing altogether -no?. Well enough of my presumptions - we are witnessing some interesting developments in biofuels. Best Jim Mike McGinness wrote: John, It says the particles are made of sand and calcium. The actual catalysts are attached to the surface of the particle and the active catalyst compound is not described (except to call them mixed oxides). I say catalysts because they mention having both acid and base catalysts on the same particles. by creating a mixed oxide catalyst that has both acidic and basic catalytic sites. Acidic catalysts on the particle can convert the free fatty acids to biodiesel while basic catalysts can convert the oils into fuel. Mike McGinness John Beale wrote: Searching the Des Moines Register website, I found this article: http://snipurl.com/q4m4 Searching the Iowa State University website, I found this article: http://snipurl.com/q4mj It says on the second article that the catalyst is made of calcium and sand, not sugar and sulfuric acid. -John On May 6, 2006, at 11:35 PM, JJJN wrote: My mother in law sent me an article by Anne Fitzgerald writing for the (Des Moines?) Register. The article states that Victor Lin and two fellow University of Iowa Chemists have created a new catalyst that is reusable (20 times) and can be filtered. The catalyst will be quite a bit more expensive than what we are using now but will pay out over time because of the reuse. West Central cooperative is going to test the catalyst on a commercial scale. Anne Fitzgerald can be reached at 515 284 8122 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] This sounds very much like the glucose/carbon/sulfur carbon compound. BUT I do not know if it is or something new. Well lets hope this becomes available to us all very soon. My best Jim. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Poll in favor of Nukes on Iran
Fritz Friesinger wrote: Poll: Strong U.S. Support for Bombing Iran I think this illustrates how effective the propaganda machine in the US has become. To a certain extent, insulation from the consequences of our bellicose attitude contributes to the problem. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst
Hello Steve, Yea it a bummer to see our think tanks beg, but the bottom line is if they start producing the catalyst for sale, chances are we can buy it, not so different than going to your local chemical supply and buying KOH eh? I think Mr Lin is trying to use his minute in the limelight to express what they have done and give the State a good kicking in the butt to start supporting what they at the university do (Academics vs Sports) and after the Hawkeyes Basketball season why not? I don't agree with -see below... Best Jim Steve Racz wrote: Here is the article online (using snipurl!) http://snipurl.com/q4st If the catalyst is reusable, but only 20 times, what happens then? Can the catalyst be recycled? The details are vague but it seems that this is intentional as it seems Mr. Lin and his colleagues and especially the University of Iowa are trying to cash in on their research, not share it. Sorry if I sound like a cynic, but the article sounds more like a free informercial touting the benefits of university and industry collaboration (read - how to raise $$$ for the University) with the work with renewable fuels being only the buzzword to bind it together. Not that I don't think that there shouldn't be collaboration, it's that this is blatantly using biodiesel research as a headliner and not much else. Not much else? Then Why is the Coop going to start Commercially testing the Catalyst? I'm actually saddened that with all the blah, blah about being addicted to oil, that begging is still required by universities for funding of research that seems so basic and that people like Mr.Lin are forced into the commercial world when clearly it's not ready for commercialization. Right the catalyst is not ready for commercialization but it is ready to test for that purpose. Please don't misunderstand me, I hope it becomes available but until the next 1000 yards of research and testing is complete I am not going to cancel any orders for KOH. It does state : Grants from the U.S. Department of Agriculture, the U.S. Department of Energy and the state's Iowa Values Fund have helped support the ISU researchers' work. but that doesn't stop them from saying this: If the work with West Central shows the catalysts will work on a commercial scale, Lin may form a company to produce the catalysts. But that, as well as continuing research on campus, will take significant funding, he and others said. If we could get support from the state and from these local companies, there is no reason why it would not stay here, Lin said. I see opportunity in Iowa. Steve On Sunday 07 May 2006 03:35 pm, JJJN wrote: My mother in law sent me an article by Anne Fitzgerald writing for the (Des Moines?) Register. The article states that Victor Lin and two fellow University of Iowa Chemists have created a new catalyst that is reusable (20 times) and can be filtered. The catalyst will be quite a bit more expensive than what we are using now but will pay out over time because of the reuse. West Central cooperative is going to test the catalyst on a commercial scale. Anne Fitzgerald can be reached at 515 284 8122 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] This sounds very much like the glucose/carbon/sulfur carbon compound. BUT I do not know if it is or something new. Well lets hope this becomes available to us all very soon. My best Jim. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] distilling fuel/reactant ethanol
Jan Warnqvist pravi: Hello Jason and Kate, the reason for this is simple. The castor oil (unlike most other vegetable oils) is ethanol soluble. This means that most other oils will not do the trick. With best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: "Jason Katie" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 6:31 AM Subject: [Biofuel] distilling fuel/reactant ethanol i pulled a paper from the library describing separating ethanol from water using castor oil. can this be done using any kind of oil, or are their certain characteristics of the oil not described in the paper? http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/eth_separate.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ I'm interested in separating ethanol from water using castor oil,so does anyone know what is the adsorption power of caster oil and under what conditions. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] gelled rebatch
I attempeted to post this last week. Didn't come through due to glitches of some sort. *-*-*-*-*-*-* I made my first small batch last Wednesday, and it turned out OK; I thought it had a little too much soapiness, so I reprocessed it. 100ml methnol, 3.5g NaOH, 1.5hrs, as per directions. After settling, I had a nasty lump of gelled stuff. I thought maybe it was the cold, it did get down to 45-50 F that night. Brought the jug indoors overnight. Nope, still thick. Better, but still gooey. Anyway, can you overprocess? What happens if you do? Thanks, Ryan *-*-*-*-*-*-* SINCE THEN; I'm thinking it was all the container I used. It was a LDPE container, and I think the finished diesel dissolved some plastic that the SVO the first time didn't. Add heat, and it dissolved even more. My original question is still valid though...can you OVERprocess? And what happens? And my second small trial batch is settling right now...so far so good. Ryan _ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Poll in favor of Nukes on Iran
Hi Fritz and everyone...polls...hmmm...can anyone tell me more about "NewsMax"? Who owns and controls this website? Fritz, have you asked anyone at NewsMax how this poll was conducted?What are the demographics of this poll?I see on their homepage as of today, Sunday, May 7, just after 7pm Central (USA), where they site a poll WITH HEADLINES that says Fox is the most trusted news source in the U.S., but the story says we're talking about 11% of the public making it this "popular." Hey, if only roughly One in Ten Americans are fatheads, we're not doin' too bad. I wouldn't be surprised if a large percentage of these 11% make up the largest percentage of the "voters" who answered the NewsMaxpoll, which would make that "77%" actually an incredibly small percentage of the U.S. population. Sorry you blame the "ordinary" U.S. citizen for however our government acts. What's the deal in your country? Is your government walking in lockstep with the will of the overwhelming majority of the "ordinary" citizens? Whatis "ordinary" anyway I'll leave it at that for now. Mike - Original Message - From: Fritz Friesinger To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 5:09 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Poll in favor of Nukes on Iran Hakan, indeed dejea vu, once the propagandamachine works as fine as it does in the US,all out war is'nt far away! The whole polemic about the communist threat BS, it was and is always the migthy US who uses Nukes to intimidate the rest of the world! I dispise them for it and can not help to blame the ordinary US Citicen.As a German i felt long time the blame for the wrong doeings of the Nazis even i was born in 48! eh bien and so on... Get better Hakan,there is no time to loose Fritz - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 5:23 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Poll in favor of Nukes on Iran Fritz,Have a strong feeling of dejavu and this time I will save the info in a special place. Pre Iraq, I saw similar figures and also some support on this list. Today it is overwhelming negative numbers in support for the Iraq war and approval ratings for the president. Maybe I should frame this, for future use.Talk about a violent population, 77% in support of military action and killing Iranians. In two years we will have 65% in denial and against the US engagement in Iran. It will be an even bigger mess than Iraq, with attacks all over the world.HakanAt 20:07 07/05/2006, you wrote:just receivedFritzPoll: Strong U.S. Support for Bombing IranAn Internet poll sponsored by NewsMax.com reveals that Americans are overwhelmingly in favor of the United States undertaking military action to stop Iran's nuclear weapons program.Nearly 60,000 people have taken part in the poll so far, and more than nine out of 10 say U.S. efforts to contain Iran's weapons program are not working.A large majority of respondents also believe that Iran poses a greater threat than Saddam Hussein did before the Iraq War.NewsMax will provide the results of this poll to major media and share them with radio talk-show hosts across the country.Here are the poll questions and results:1) Do you believe U.S. efforts to contain Iran's nuclear weapons program are working?Working: 7 percentNot Working: 93 percent2) Should the United States rely solely on the U.N. to stop Iran's nuclear weapons program?Yes: 11 percentNo: 89 percent3) Do you believe Iran poses a greater threat than Saddam Hussein did before the Iraq War?Yes: 88 percentNo: 12 percent4) Should the U.S. undertake military action against Iran to stop their program?Yes: 77 percentNo: 23 percent5) Who should undertake military action against Iran first?U.S.: 45 percentIsrael: 35 percentNeither: 20 percent___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] gelled rebatch
Ryan, You should spend the next evening reading. Not just spots but all of it. Then start at the beginning, this is not for the weak willed you will get an education and have made many many small batches before you come out of the cloud. (as I call it anyway) Its all at the site. But my advise is start small, Virgin Oil, eliminate variables be sure to keep heat right - an old crock pot is good, But use a really GOOD scale for measuring that 3.5 grams. Don't get carried away with mixing if you are using a blender, they tend to suck in oxygen and create goop if you do, but make sure the stuff gets mixed - Ok thats all from me but I'm just repeating so do yourself a favor and spend more evenings reading JtF than mixing, you ll be amazed, and by the way this is science and in science we must measure VERY carefully for results that can be recorded and REPEATED. Without measurement we are just ..well George Bushes. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html I wish you the best Jim Ryan Pope wrote: I attempeted to post this last week. Didn't come through due to glitches of some sort. *-*-*-*-*-*-* I made my first small batch last Wednesday, and it turned out OK; I thought it had a little too much soapiness, so I reprocessed it. 100ml methnol, 3.5g NaOH, 1.5hrs, as per directions. After settling, I had a nasty lump of gelled stuff. I thought maybe it was the cold, it did get down to 45-50 F that night. Brought the jug indoors overnight. Nope, still thick. Better, but still gooey. Anyway, can you overprocess? What happens if you do? Thanks, Ryan *-*-*-*-*-*-* SINCE THEN; I'm thinking it was all the container I used. It was a LDPE container, and I think the finished diesel dissolved some plastic that the SVO the first time didn't. Add heat, and it dissolved even more. My original question is still valid though...can you OVERprocess? And what happens? And my second small trial batch is settling right now...so far so good. Ryan _ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] PLEASE READ - Re: Sweet catalyst continuous processes
ok, obviously i touched a bare nerve of which i know nothing about, and apologize for bringing up bad memories. sorry folks. jason - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 3:08 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] PLEASE READ - Re: Sweet catalyst continuous processes Hi Hakan Gustl, You are absolutely right, I remember that you were not alone and you had strong support from me among several other members on the list. I have never heard Keith request or ask for donations, on the contrary, he have always supported the biodiesel community, without asking anything in return. Maybe he sometimes, with reasons, been quite tough with some list members that was totally out of line. Gustl and Keith, between us I am probably the oldest and as it happens a little bit sick now. I'm sorry to hear that. Please take good care of yourself Hakan. Nothing serious, being sick will pass, contrary to being an idiot, as the one who calls Keith a sick old man. Well, yes. Thankyou. That won't pass, will it. I don't think that old dog is going to be learning any new tricks, it's too late now. It's terrible what some people inflict on their lives. It's hard to summon much sympathy though, sometimes. Okay, I don't really try, it's true. It's not often a person gets the chance to live a human life, it's quite rare, one shouldn't waste such a good opportunity. - Prema, Northern Buddhist nun. The slings and arrows of outrageous idiots. Never mind, I don't. Thankyou Hakan. Get well soon. Love to Marta. Regards Keith Hakan At 16:38 07/05/2006, you wrote: Hallo Keith, Just in case people weren't around during the time the list suffered from the denial of service and mail flooding time let me tell that when we changed servers it was me, Gustl Steiner-Zehender, who called for donations to defray costs not you. I handled the money and saw that it was all accounted for and properly distributed. I also was responsible for receipts for donations and due to computer problems and lost information I think that may have been mishandled although not intentionally. I believe I still owe a fellow living in Saudi Arabia a receipt for his very generous donation although it has taken me a lot of remembering to come up with that. Whoever it was please drop me an email and I will get that receipt out to you and please forgive me for the oversight. It was definitely not intentional. Again, just to be clear. Keith had absolutely NOTHING to do with the request for donations at all. It was all done by another sick old man by the name of Gustl Steiner-Zehender. Happy Happy, Gustl Saturday, 06 May, 2006, 16:05:51, you wrote: ...snip... KA The official sewer rat at Infopop and some other folks from there KA lurk around here at the Biofuel list archives like, well, like KA sewer rats, sniffing about and telling the same sort of stuff KA offlist to new members and inviting them to Infopop. List members KA complain about it. Here's one, we have quite a few, not only from KA this one, similar stuff from the Appleseed Queen and so on, whose KA biodiesel book Joe Street didn't seem to like much: Please be aware that the vast majority of the biodiesel world holds Keith Addison and his Journey to Forever site in total contempt. Keith Addison is a sick old man who begs for money on his Journey to Forever site, supposedly to help the poor and needy but he actually uses the money donated to him for his day to day expenses. The Journey to Forever site is Keith's Retirement income, is vastly out of date, and contains inaccurate and phony biodiesel information. If you are more interested in making biodiesel that listening to a Psychotic old man rant about the evils of the world, I suggest you join the Infopop biodiesel website at (I have snipped the url here. I won't advertise for that lot.) Tell them a Kindly Elf sent you. Squire Tilly KE ...snip... -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. We can't change the winds but we can adjust our sails. The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen, daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. George Carlin The best portion of a good man's life - His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love. William Wordsworth ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] PLEASE READ - Re: Sweet catalyst continuous processes
Hello Keith, all u DIY members, Keith is only keeping focus on present BD technology. I did not keep focus long time ago and threw away mother liquor without reading up on subject first. When the prof, thecelebrated R.A.Robinson saw zero yield of product, he pulled me up. I was asked to give up chemistry coursefor that blunder of not reading up first. Now imagine this on commercial scale. Do you think you will be given second chance if you have lost a ton or two? No way. So Keith's absolutely right in his actions as group owner/moderater. However let sweet catalyst process develop and reach conclusion in good time. Get the impression that catalyst life should be 20X. Catalysts drop in activity over time and have to be replenised/regenerated. This cycle can be repeated endlessly. Also I do not believe sugar char is the ideal since we have not seen other chars,including activated carbon and silicas. Further progress is inevitable so let us all keep open mind. May God bless us and keep us ( from squabbling). Cheers. manickhKeith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please note the bit at the end:"No further discussion please. As I said, we keep it away unless it needs saying, now it's said, so leave it, or it will only cause confusion and distraction, as intended."--Hello Jasonthey are discussing the sugar catalyst in detail athttp://biodiesel.infopop.cc/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/419605551/m/9771067631/p/1Sure they are, but if a person wanders in there the first thing that hits them is this:Saint Tilly, DD; KE; Sewer Rat (by appointment)"I didn't have to fiddle with it, it worked just fine,but I fiddled with it anyway and now it works even finer"Keith Addison explaining his cosmic theory of the Foolproof DisasterWith ne'er a link to the original:http://snipurl.com/q2lzRe: [Biofuel] acid/base method for conversion of wvo to FAMEsNor to this, for instance:http://snipurl.com/q210[Biofuel] Water from Acid processAnd nobody says "er...":http://snipurl.com/pie8[Biofuel] Biodiesel test results99.09% completion says the GC, way better than standard spec. So what's the disaster? This: "It doesn't work." Uh-huh. But I'll come back to that.This is the barest tip of an iceberg, scratch it a bit and see what happens.Like what's with the "Sewer Rat (by appointment)" bit?A couple of days ago some mud got slung at the Biofuel list in a discussion at "wastewatts", the yahoo group moderated by Steve Spence, Dir., Green Trust. Stuff like this:"It can have a certain view and the some long time members like everyone to march to a similar tune or your read the riot act. ""The list owner ( Keith ), can not handle the truth, because it hurts to much.""... plenty of people have been banned because they disagreed with certain people on the list, and couldn't back up their disagreement with the "proper" sources.""I would not parrot the "bush is the antichrist" partyline, and I wouldn't shut up, so I was banned. But keith will swear that it was done in the name of promoting open discussion - how Orwellian."And so on.A person named Chris Stratford started ranting that Keith is a racist and an anti-Semite and a Nazi and got quite violent: "... if I meet them in a dark alley only one of us will walk out... There are a bunch of other biodiesel groups, that actually have open debate... Keith has a great website, but if it was a choice between saving him or the rat from drowning, I will save the rat, and then throw it at him."So this clown at Infopop appoints himself the rat. Well I guess he should know, and he's in the right place too. I'm sure the wastewatts discussion is all over Infopop with the usual huge glee but I didn't bother to check, I never go there unless someone posts a url here.I received the wastewatts posts as a subscriber but I don't read anything there either, someone pointed it out to me. I'd give you the link but dear old Steve in all his openness closed the archives unless you log in as a member.These people at wastewatts got booted from the Biofuel list for demanding that other people's posts they didn't agree with must be censored because they're "off-topic". See the List rules:http://snipurl.com/mx7rPeople who do this quite often refuse to accept the reason for their dismissal, they're already furious anyway and it's so much more convenient to think that it's their opinions we "hate" and the dismissal was just an excuse while in fact we're really defending the evil views they want censored because we agree with them.This is what happened with Stratford, nearly two years ago. It wasn't me who posted the stuff he objected to, I didn't even comment on it, and it was just a distraction anyway. But that doesn't bother Chris Stratford. He actually said this at wastewatts: "The point is that hatred based on lies is evil." Only true thing I've seen him say, but he was talking about me and the Biofuel list, not him.Of course we have all the background on record in the list admin archives, so what really happened with
[Biofuel] Poll in favor of bombing Iran
I think this poll shows how the short term memory of Americans is totally lacking. Also it shows how effective the propaganda machine of BushCo is. In a word, terrorfying. Peace, D. Mindock P.S. We have met the enemy and he is us. Poll: Strong U.S. Support for Bombing Iran An Internet poll sponsored by NewsMax.com reveals that Americans are overwhelmingly in favor of the United States undertaking military action to stop Iran's nuclear weapons program. Nearly 60,000 people have taken part in the poll so far, and more than nine out of 10 say U.S. efforts to contain Iran's weapons program are not working. A large majority of respondents also believe that Iran poses a greater threat than Saddam Hussein did before the Iraq War. NewsMax will provide the results of this poll to major media and share them with radio talk-show hosts across the country. Here are the poll questions and results:1) Do you believe U.S. efforts to contain Iran's nuclear weapons program are working?Working: 7 percentNot Working: 93 percent 2) Should the United States rely solely on the U.N. to stop Iran's nuclear weapons program?Yes: 11 percentNo: 89 percent 3) Do you believe Iran poses a greater threat than Saddam Hussein did before the Iraq War?Yes: 88 percentNo: 12 percent 4) Should the U.S. undertake military action against Iran to stop their program?Yes: 77 percentNo: 23 percent 5) Who should undertake military action against Iran first?U.S.: 45 percentIsrael: 35 percentNeither: 20 percent ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
