Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: humanure to humus
How about wastewater treatment plants taking their sludge and land applying it without composting. Yours is cleaner than theirs for certain. Tom Irwin From:"A. Lawrence" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: humanure to humusDate:Fri, 22 Dec 2006 16:43:28 -0800Witness composting toilets... are they not doing the same thing you are,albeit in a different manner??- Original Message -From: "Keith Addison" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Friday, December 22, 2006 5:19 PMSubject: [Biofuel] Fwd: humanure to humus Can anyone help Tom? He's not a list member, but I'll refer him to any discussions here. Thanks! All best KeithFrom: "tom habasco" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: humanure to humus Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006Hello my name is Tom Habasco and I will be going into circuit court in order to defend my right to compost. I am the 5th generation of organic farming family.We have known of the benefits of this for many decades. Unfortunately the local health people tell me it is illegal for me to compost humanure, as it is explained by Joseph Jenkins in his book.Now they have a signed order which makes my home and lifestyle illegal . They say that there is no scientific proof that composting humanure works or that it is safe. I personally have been growing fruits and veggie's for the plate to eat for many years. In my defense I must say I have never become ill from my gardens. I have no illness whatsoever and take no medication for anything. How do we convince these youngsters at the so called "health dept's" that composting is safe and a much better approach to our handling of the environment than there septic approach? I need proof and support that you may have to fight for my right to own property live on that property, farm my small gardens " under half acre of gardens" and compost including humanure.If I fail at this I will be ordered off my property and my home will be moved away by them at my cost. This is not an option , that is why it is of the utmost importance that I seek help from like minded people like you to help[ support me and my decision to make a lifestyle change and help the earth by becoming less dependant on fossil fuels like oil. Thank you for your time, if you can please respond before Jan 3 2007,___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN Messenger Download today it's FREE! ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: humanure to humus
Ya know, I'm actually kinda curious to know how this guy is going about composting his waste...I've read a little about it, but never talked to anyone who's done it him/herself. I'm reading a cool book right now called Goodbye to the flush toilet... some late 70's idealistic commie-lib propaganda designed to make good honest folks think that the system that's in place now might not be very efficient. Pshaw, that's like saying the current administration isn't very efficient...just ludicrous. But anyways, this book (a good read, but might be a little hard to find...edited by Carol Hupping Stoner, Rodale Press, 1977) says that it takes some ungodly amount of time for the compost to reach a safe level to be mixed into garden manure. Something like a minimum of six months. And also...what kind of fascist housing authority is this guy dealing with...taking his house away...hmmm...does he have a history of pissing off the neighborhood, or does he just live in some posh upperclass development where the Bourgeoisie don't want to smell his decomposing shit. Best of luck anyways, --- Tom Irwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - How about wastewater treatment plants taking their sludge and land applying it without composting. Yours is cleaner than theirs for certain. Tom Irwin - From: A. Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: humanure to humus Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 16:43:28 -0800 Witness composting toilets... are they not doing the same thing you are, albeit in a different manner?? - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 5:19 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Fwd: humanure to humus Can anyone help Tom? He's not a list member, but I'll refer him to any discussions here. Thanks! All best Keith From: tom habasco [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: humanure to humus Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 Hello my name is Tom Habasco and I will be going into circuit court in order to defend my right to compost. I am the 5th generation of organic farming family.We have known of the benefits of this for many decades. Unfortunately the local health people tell me it is illegal for me to compost humanure, as it is explained by Joseph Jenkins in his book.Now they have a signed order which makes my home and lifestyle illegal . They say that there is no scientific proof that composting humanure works or that it is safe. I personally have been growing fruits and veggie's for the plate to eat for many years. In my defense I must say I have never become ill from my gardens. I have no illness whatsoever and take no medication for anything. How do we convince these youngsters at the so called health dept's that composting is safe and a much better approach to our handling of the environment than there septic approach? I need proof and support that you may have to fight for my right to own property live on that property, farm my small gardens under half acre of gardens and compost including humanure.If I fail at this I will be ordered off my property and my home will be moved away by them at my cost. This is not an option , that is why it is of the utmost importance that I seek help from like minded people like you to help[ support me and my decision to make a lifestyle change and help the earth by becoming less dependant on fossil fuels like oil. Thank you for your time, if you can please respond before Jan 3 2007, ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ - Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN Messenger Download today it's FREE! ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Anyone done an EV conversion?
I'm thinking of attempting a conversion on my 1976 Chevy 1/2 ton van. Maybe a simple 96-volt system...series wire eight 12V car batteries that I find lying around. The range would suck, but this is more just for shits and giggles anyways. Also, feel free to shoot me down here, but I've heard of folks using their starter motors as drive motors for the cars themselves...anyone care to comment? Thanks, Luke __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Anyone done an EV conversion?
I think I might be able to contribute something on the subject. I strongly recommend you visit my Web site first. You might find something of interest starting at: http://www.econogics.com/ev/evindex.htm Some other folks have said kind things about the material there over the years. As to the specific points in your post. Forget the 1/2 ton van. Too heavy = too expensive to accomplish anything of value. I have personally watched two Chev van conversion projects die incomplete. 96 volts is pretty conventional, there's lots of components available there. However, it's not going to work with aircraft starter generators. Standard automotive batteries (starting, lighting, ignition: SLI) will not survive long in a deep-discharge application. There is plenty of experience to prove this out. Automotive starter motors as propulsion devices will die even faster. They are designed for short-term operation (seconds) and a small load (turning the engine); not continuous operation or the load of moving the vehicle. I have driven a small car on its starter motor in an emergency situation. Went a few hundred metres at about 5 km/h. The starter motor failed shortly thereafter. If this is to be an educational experience, I highly recommend starting with something smaller, that can still be useful. For example, electrify a bicycle, a garden tractor or other yard appliance, convert a motorcycle or scooter, or build an Electrathon vehicle. You will learn the same electrical and mechanical fundamentals, but on a much smaller budget, and likely end up with something you will actually use afterward. Darryl McMahon (owner - 1973 Porsche 914 electric conversion, 1973 General Electric Elec-Trak E12 tractor, homebrew electric bicycle based on hub motor, 1999 Spincraft EB-1 solar electric boat and too many past, current and future projects to mention). Luke Hansen wrote: I'm thinking of attempting a conversion on my 1976 Chevy 1/2 ton van. Maybe a simple 96-volt system...series wire eight 12V car batteries that I find lying around. The range would suck, but this is more just for shits and giggles anyways. Also, feel free to shoot me down here, but I've heard of folks using their starter motors as drive motors for the cars themselves...anyone care to comment? Thanks, Luke -- Darryl McMahon It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will? The Emperor's New Hydrogen Economy (now in print and eBook) http://www.econogics.com/TENHE/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Anyone done an EV conversion?
starter motors are not designed for continuous service. Kirk Luke Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm thinking of attempting a conversion on my 1976 Chevy 1/2 ton van. Maybe a simple 96-volt system...series wire eight 12V car batteries that I find lying around. The range would suck, but this is more just for shits and giggles anyways. Also, feel free to shoot me down here, but I've heard of folks using their starter motors as drive motors for the cars themselves...anyone care to comment? Thanks, Luke __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Anyone done an EV conversion?
Thanks for the input Darryl, It saddens me to read about the two failed van conversions, as my van has quite a bit of sentimental value to me, and the block cracked in our big freeze a month ago (quite rare so close to the coast, but we all know that anthropogenic climate change is just a creation of our liberal media). It could just be expansion (freeze) plugs, but I don't feel like dropping the engine just to find out. Granted, the van is one heavy piece of detroit steel, but what exactly is the hang-up? Voltage? Total weight? I'm guessing that most of the batterys' charge is used in overcoming inertia, right? *sigh* 'tis a daunting task at hand...but like the good doctor says, when the going gets weird, the weird get professional. So, sounds like I can safely rule out the use of a starter motor for a drive motor. Why did the van projects die in progress? --- Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think I might be able to contribute something on the subject. I strongly recommend you visit my Web site first. You might find something of interest starting at: http://www.econogics.com/ev/evindex.htm Some other folks have said kind things about the material there over the years. As to the specific points in your post. Forget the 1/2 ton van. Too heavy = too expensive to accomplish anything of value. I have personally watched two Chev van conversion projects die incomplete. 96 volts is pretty conventional, there's lots of components available there. However, it's not going to work with aircraft starter generators. Standard automotive batteries (starting, lighting, ignition: SLI) will not survive long in a deep-discharge application. There is plenty of experience to prove this out. Automotive starter motors as propulsion devices will die even faster. They are designed for short-term operation (seconds) and a small load (turning the engine); not continuous operation or the load of moving the vehicle. I have driven a small car on its starter motor in an emergency situation. Went a few hundred metres at about 5 km/h. The starter motor failed shortly thereafter. If this is to be an educational experience, I highly recommend starting with something smaller, that can still be useful. For example, electrify a bicycle, a garden tractor or other yard appliance, convert a motorcycle or scooter, or build an Electrathon vehicle. You will learn the same electrical and mechanical fundamentals, but on a much smaller budget, and likely end up with something you will actually use afterward. Darryl McMahon (owner - 1973 Porsche 914 electric conversion, 1973 General Electric Elec-Trak E12 tractor, homebrew electric bicycle based on hub motor, 1999 Spincraft EB-1 solar electric boat and too many past, current and future projects to mention). Luke Hansen wrote: I'm thinking of attempting a conversion on my 1976 Chevy 1/2 ton van. Maybe a simple 96-volt system...series wire eight 12V car batteries that I find lying around. The range would suck, but this is more just for shits and giggles anyways. Also, feel free to shoot me down here, but I've heard of folks using their starter motors as drive motors for the cars themselves...anyone care to comment? Thanks, Luke -- Darryl McMahon It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will? The Emperor's New Hydrogen Economy (now in print and eBook) http://www.econogics.com/TENHE/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Anyone done an EV conversion?
On Dec 23, 2006, at 11:14 AM, Luke Hansen wrote: Granted, the van is one heavy piece of detroit steel, but what exactly is the hang-up? Voltage? Total weight? I'm guessing that most of the batterys' charge is used in overcoming inertia, right? There's an optimal ratio of battery weight to total weight-- can't remember the number now, but Darryl probably knows. I know the Honda Civic I converted (and drove for a few years) had around 900 lbs of lead-acid batteries (Optima Yellow Tops). I think the problem with a van is just that you'd need so many batteries even to successfully keep up with traffic, the total weight would be too high to handle well. If I ever did another electric vehicle, it would be a tricycle with spoked wheels and a tubular aluminum or carbon- fiber frame. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Renewable Energy in America, Part 2: Solar Powered Homes
Renewable Energy in America, Part 2: Solar Powered Homes http://www.ecommercetimes.com/rsstory/54852.html Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Next Generation Grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ Earth_Rescue_International http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Earth_Rescue_International/ Tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Anyone done an EV conversion?
http://www.kta-ev.com/ http://www.eaaev.org/eaalinks.html Kirk Luke Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the input Darryl, It saddens me to read about the two failed van conversions, as my van has quite a bit of sentimental value to me, and the block cracked in our big freeze a month ago (quite rare so close to the coast, but we all know that anthropogenic climate change is just a creation of our liberal media). It could just be expansion (freeze) plugs, but I don't feel like dropping the engine just to find out. Granted, the van is one heavy piece of detroit steel, but what exactly is the hang-up? Voltage? Total weight? I'm guessing that most of the batterys' charge is used in overcoming inertia, right? *sigh* 'tis a daunting task at hand...but like the good doctor says, when the going gets weird, the weird get professional. So, sounds like I can safely rule out the use of a starter motor for a drive motor. Why did the van projects die in progress? --- Darryl McMahon wrote: I think I might be able to contribute something on the subject. I strongly recommend you visit my Web site first. You might find something of interest starting at: http://www.econogics.com/ev/evindex.htm Some other folks have said kind things about the material there over the years. As to the specific points in your post. Forget the 1/2 ton van. Too heavy = too expensive to accomplish anything of value. I have personally watched two Chev van conversion projects die incomplete. 96 volts is pretty conventional, there's lots of components available there. However, it's not going to work with aircraft starter generators. Standard automotive batteries (starting, lighting, ignition: SLI) will not survive long in a deep-discharge application. There is plenty of experience to prove this out. Automotive starter motors as propulsion devices will die even faster. They are designed for short-term operation (seconds) and a small load (turning the engine); not continuous operation or the load of moving the vehicle. I have driven a small car on its starter motor in an emergency situation. Went a few hundred metres at about 5 km/h. The starter motor failed shortly thereafter. If this is to be an educational experience, I highly recommend starting with something smaller, that can still be useful. For example, electrify a bicycle, a garden tractor or other yard appliance, convert a motorcycle or scooter, or build an Electrathon vehicle. You will learn the same electrical and mechanical fundamentals, but on a much smaller budget, and likely end up with something you will actually use afterward. Darryl McMahon (owner - 1973 Porsche 914 electric conversion, 1973 General Electric Elec-Trak E12 tractor, homebrew electric bicycle based on hub motor, 1999 Spincraft EB-1 solar electric boat and too many past, current and future projects to mention). Luke Hansen wrote: I'm thinking of attempting a conversion on my 1976 Chevy 1/2 ton van. Maybe a simple 96-volt system...series wire eight 12V car batteries that I find lying around. The range would suck, but this is more just for shits and giggles anyways. Also, feel free to shoot me down here, but I've heard of folks using their starter motors as drive motors for the cars themselves...anyone care to comment? Thanks, Luke -- Darryl McMahon It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will? The Emperor's New Hydrogen Economy (now in print and eBook) http://www.econogics.com/TENHE/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: humanure to humus
In Florida, there is an extension service provided by the University of Florida which provides all kinds of information on farming and agriculture to the general public. Does the local university have a program like that in your area? If so, they can probably provide plenty of scientific evidence in your favor, especially if you can find a professor who is willing to help you. Can the health dept. really prove it's human anyhow? On 12/22/06, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can anyone help Tom? He's not a list member, but I'll refer him to any discussions here. Thanks! All best Keith From: tom habasco [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: humanure to humus Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 Hello my name is Tom Habasco and I will be going into circuit court in order to defend my right to compost. I am the 5th generation of organic farming family.We have known of the benefits of this for many decades. Unfortunately the local health people tell me it is illegal for me to compost humanure, as it is explained by Joseph Jenkins in his book.Now they have a signed order which makes my home and lifestyle illegal . They say that there is no scientific proof that composting humanure works or that it is safe. I personally have been growing fruits and veggie's for the plate to eat for many years. In my defense I must say I have never become ill from my gardens. I have no illness whatsoever and take no medication for anything. How do we convince these youngsters at the so called health dept's that composting is safe and a much better approach to our handling of the environment than there septic approach? I need proof and support that you may have to fight for my right to own property live on that property, farm my small gardens under half acre of gardens and compost including humanure.If I fail at this I will be ordered off my property and my home will be moved away by them at my cost. This is not an option , that is why it is of the utmost importance that I seek help from like minded people like you to help[ support me and my decision to make a lifestyle change and help the earth by becoming less dependant on fossil fuels like oil. Thank you for your time, if you can please respond before Jan 3 2007, ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] humanure to humus
I would be surprised if I am the only one on this list thinking it is a good thing to discourage this fellow. In our town I was shocked a few years ago when our town fathers decided to palletize our sewage and sell it to farmers. Fortunately other than spending good tax dollars there was little harm done. They could not find a market. If I am not mistaken environmentalists have been telling us that medicines are actually ending up in the rivers and streams in measurable amounts from waste water sewage plants. I had a friend (died of cancer) who once ran a small motel. He often offered produce from his garden that sat over his weeping tile. I always graciously declined. Of course I am not suggesting his cancer was related. For all I know the meds from plants may have helped him. Wes Luke Hansen Sat, 23 Dec 2006 09:05:09 -0800 Ya know, I'm actually kinda curious to know how this guy is going about composting his waste...I've read a little about it, but never talked to anyone who's done it him/herself. I'm reading a cool book right now called Goodbye to the flush toilet... some late 70's idealistic commie-lib propaganda designed to make good honest folks think that the system that's in place now might not be very efficient. Pshaw, that's like saying the current administration isn't very efficient...just ludicrous. But anyways, this book (a good read, but might be a little hard to find...edited by Carol Hupping Stoner, Rodale Press, 1977) says that it takes some ungodly amount of time for the compost to reach a safe level to be mixed into garden manure. Something like a minimum of six months. And also...what kind of fascist housing authority is this guy dealing with...taking his house away...hmmm...does he have a history of pissing off the neighborhood, or does he just live in some posh upperclass development where the Bourgeoisie don't want to smell his decomposing shit. Best of luck anyways, ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] humanure to humus
Wes and Luke I would be surprised if I am the only one on this list thinking it is a good thing to discourage this fellow. I'd be damn' disappointed if you weren't, but I suppose you'll probably win that one, so I'll brace myself for further disappointment, sigh... In our town I was shocked a few years ago when our town fathers decided to palletize our sewage and sell it to farmers. Fortunately other than spending good tax dollars there was little harm done. They could not find a market. I wonder what that's got to do with composting. If I am not mistaken environmentalists have been telling us that medicines are actually ending up in the rivers and streams in measurable amounts from waste water sewage plants. What's that got to do with composting? I had a friend (died of cancer) who once ran a small motel. He often offered produce from his garden that sat over his weeping tile. I always graciously declined. Of course I am not suggesting his cancer was related. For all I know the meds from plants may have helped him. This is the prejudice of sheer ignorance, and it's not acceptable here, especially not on this not unimportant and often-discussed topic. So you think medicines will survive composting, let alone faecal pathogens. In other words you don't know what composting is and you don't know what it does. But that doesn't stop you spouting all this stuff. Please do yourself, the rest of us, and the planet a favour and read this: http://www.journeytoforever.org/compost_humanure.html Humanure: Journey to Forever organic garden And also this (the whole section): http://www.journeytoforever.org/compost.html Composting: Journey to Forever As well as this: http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library/howard.html The work of Sir Albert Howard An Agricultural Testament by Sir Albert Howard http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#howard The Waste Products of Agriculture -- Their Utilization as Humus by Albert Howard and Yeshwant D. Wad http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#wpa Until you've done that, you're in no position to argue about it. FYI: ... The causative organisms of faecal-borne diseases are destroyed by aerobic composting, if temperatures in the thermophilic range are maintained for a sufficient time and all of the material is subjected to these temperatures. - From: Composting - Sanitary Disposal and Reclamation of Organic Wastes, Harold B. Gotaas, World Health Organization, Geneva, 1956, with many citations and a long list of references provided. Inter many alia. In other words normal composting. Aerobic composting means with oxygen, as opposed to sewage, which is anaerobic (without oxygen) and an altogether different process. Thermophilic means the temperature rises above 55 deg C (131 deg F). You'll find many references in the archives to compost temperatures at above 70 deg C (158 deg F). Wes Luke Hansen Sat, 23 Dec 2006 09:05:09 -0800 Ya know, I'm actually kinda curious to know how this guy is going about composting his waste... If you're that curious why not find out first? It's easy enough, he gives his reference as Joseph Jenkins (why did you cut his message? - I've put it back at the end). See eg: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg14830.html [biofuel] Re: Farmers Turn To Composting, Georgia, USA Which takes you both here: http://journeytoforever.org/compost_humanure.html Humanure: Journey to Forever And here: http://www.weblife.org/humanure/default.html Humanure Handbook: Contents A Guide to Composting Human Manure by Joseph Jenkins I've read a little about it, but never talked to anyone who's done it him/herself. I'm reading a cool book right now called Goodbye to the flush toilet... some late 70's idealistic commie-lib propaganda designed to make good honest folks think that the system that's in place now might not be very efficient. Pshaw, that's like saying the current administration isn't very efficient...just ludicrous. But anyways, this book (a good read, but might be a little hard to find...edited by Carol Hupping Stoner, Rodale Press, 1977) says that it takes some ungodly amount of time for the compost to reach a safe level to be mixed into garden manure. Something like a minimum of six months. What's your big hurry? Anyway it can easily be done in a month or less. These long periods would apply to mesophilic composting. Stoner, Rodale, and indeed Jenkins make allowance for that, many people don't know how to make thermophilic compost, it ends up mesophilic, the next level down with lower temperatures. It works nonetheless, but it takes much longer. Most composting toilet systems are mesophilic. Jenkins uses sawdust toilets and compost bins, which can and should be thermophylic, and many people do know how to make thermophilic compost. We use a sawdust toilet, and at least one of the six half-ton compost bins that process all our farming and household wastes is always
Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: humanure to humus
kind of mixed messages so far, for Tom. Yes, humanure composting is frowned on in many jurisdictions, for public health standards reasons, but those reg's. are usually applicable to whole communities, not individuals with closed-system applications, especially rural land-owners. The time-frame seems unusually short also -- a long-running neighborhood feud coming to a head? Given the time constraint, sounds like Tom needs a shark lawyer -- ACLU, perhaps? -- to protect his rights from gov't. harrassment (on whose behalf?). Tom, is your property in the path of some development or right-of-way? On composting, Rodale Press published numerous tomes some years back with good data -- JtF archives probably has a wealth also, more recent as well. Can you modify to meet standards in time, without spending an arm and leg? Might have to install flush system (unless they're going to surveil your bathrooms, how do they prove you ain't using it?) Go guerilla -- but keep your head down awhile (have you been bragging to neighbors?). Remember -- palm trees bend to ground-level horizontal when a hurricane blows through, then stand back up when it's past. :-)~ Good luck, E.A.C. --- Frank Navarrete [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In Florida, there is an extension service provided by the University of Florida which provides all kinds of information on farming and agriculture to the general public. Does the local university have a program like that in your area? If so, they can probably provide plenty of scientific evidence in your favor, especially if you can find a professor who is willing to help you. Can the health dept. really prove it's human anyhow? On 12/22/06, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can anyone help Tom? He's not a list member, but I'll refer him to any discussions here. Thanks! All best Keith From: tom habasco [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: humanure to humus Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 Hello my name is Tom Habasco and I will be going into circuit court in order to defend my right to compost. I am the 5th generation of organic farming family.We have known of the benefits of this for many decades. Unfortunately the local health people tell me it is illegal for me to compost humanure, as it is explained by Joseph Jenkins in his book.Now they have a signed order which makes my home and lifestyle illegal . They say that there is no scientific proof that composting humanure works or that it is safe. I personally have been growing fruits and veggie's for the plate to eat for many years. In my defense I must say I have never become ill from my gardens. I have no illness whatsoever and take no medication for anything. How do we convince these youngsters at the so called health dept's that composting is safe and a much better approach to our handling of the environment than there septic approach? I need proof and support that you may have to fight for my right to own property live on that property, farm my small gardens under half acre of gardens and compost including humanure.If I fail at this I will be ordered off my property and my home will be moved away by them at my cost. This is not an option , that is why it is of the utmost importance that I seek help from like minded people like you to help[ support me and my decision to make a lifestyle change and help the earth by becoming less dependant on fossil fuels like oil. Thank you for your time, if you can please respond before Jan 3 2007, ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Anyone done an EV conversion?
Luke Hansen wrote: Thanks for the input Darryl, It saddens me to read about the two failed van conversions, as my van has quite a bit of sentimental value to me, and the block cracked in our big freeze a month ago (quite rare so close to the coast, but we all know that anthropogenic climate change is just a creation of our liberal media). It could just be expansion (freeze) plugs, but I don't feel like dropping the engine just to find out. Uh-huh. I had the 3/4-ton version for many years. Nothing enjoyable about the space around that engine for working. Still, a lot less work than an electric conversion. Besides, you're going to have to drop the engine anyway as part of the conversion exercise. Granted, the van is one heavy piece of detroit steel, but what exactly is the hang-up? Voltage? Total weight? I'm guessing that most of the batterys' charge is used in overcoming inertia, right? The weight is the starting point for the issues. IIRC, this van weighs about 4,000 pounds empty. To get any kind of performance (say 0-30 mph in under 20 seconds) is going to take a lot of watts. Voltage doesn't matter - watts matter. (Watts is voltage times amps.) You will need a very large electric motor, something in the order of 40 hp continuous rating. Think mine locomotive, not golf cart. Everything gets heavier as a result. Heavier cables, heavier safety devices, heavier batteries, and they cycle keeps feeding on itself. The inertia should not be your biggest loss unless you are starting and stopping four times a mile. The GM van has the aerodynamics of a brick, so travelling at speed should be your biggest loss. *sigh* 'tis a daunting task at hand...but like the good doctor says, when the going gets weird, the weird get professional. So, sounds like I can safely rule out the use of a starter motor for a drive motor. Why did the van projects die in progress? Variety of factors. First is that most of these vans came with automatic transmissions. Adapters from an electric motor to the automatic tranny / torque converter were challenging. Then there is the issue of how to mount the motor in the engine space so it is braced against torque rotation, but not solidly locked to the frame. Getting a motor big enough was a factor. (500-amp starter generators were not up to the job.) Then there is the cost of 1,000 to 2,000 pounds of deep cycle batteries, mounting them securely, and beefing up the suspension to take the weight. Oh, and something to actually control the electricity from the pack to the motor is handy - also not cheap. Essentially, it just ends up expensive for disappointing returns. Best to learn on something cheaper. Another conversion did get onto the road. It mysteriously caught fire shortly after going into service. The owner was never satisfied with how it performed in the short time it was operational. There have been professional conversions of this platform as well. Look for Lucas-Chloride Bedford van electric conversions (probably the best) and the Magna G-Van conversions for more on how it was done when folks had big budgets. Check the specs. Then downrate everything by at least 50% to allow for doing things on the cheap and learning on the go. That's about the best you can hope for. --- Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think I might be able to contribute something on the subject. I strongly recommend you visit my Web site first. You might find something of interest starting at: http://www.econogics.com/ev/evindex.htm Some other folks have said kind things about the material there over the years. As to the specific points in your post. Forget the 1/2 ton van. Too heavy = too expensive to accomplish anything of value. I have personally watched two Chev van conversion projects die incomplete. 96 volts is pretty conventional, there's lots of components available there. However, it's not going to work with aircraft starter generators. Standard automotive batteries (starting, lighting, ignition: SLI) will not survive long in a deep-discharge application. There is plenty of experience to prove this out. Automotive starter motors as propulsion devices will die even faster. They are designed for short-term operation (seconds) and a small load (turning the engine); not continuous operation or the load of moving the vehicle. I have driven a small car on its starter motor in an emergency situation. Went a few hundred metres at about 5 km/h. The starter motor failed shortly thereafter. If this is to be an educational experience, I highly recommend starting with something smaller, that can still be useful. For example, electrify a bicycle, a garden tractor or other yard appliance, convert a motorcycle or scooter, or build an Electrathon vehicle. You will learn the same electrical and mechanical fundamentals, but on a much
Re: [Biofuel] Anyone done an EV conversion?
How about simply dumping the AT, and do a conversion similar to the Soletria E-10 (Chevy S-10) conversion? Just mount the electric motor in the rear directly to the differential after flipping it to face to the rear. Then you could do a mixture of super caps and batteries to save weight. For longer trips, then just get a hybrid trailer and plug it directly to the controller/battery pack for charging and run the motor off bio. Just my $0.02. :-) Randall Charlotte, NC - Original Message - From: Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 11:43 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Anyone done an EV conversion? Luke Hansen wrote: Thanks for the input Darryl, It saddens me to read about the two failed van conversions, as my van has quite a bit of sentimental value to me, and the block cracked in our big freeze a month ago (quite rare so close to the coast, but we all know that anthropogenic climate change is just a creation of our liberal media). It could just be expansion (freeze) plugs, but I don't feel like dropping the engine just to find out. Uh-huh. I had the 3/4-ton version for many years. Nothing enjoyable about the space around that engine for working. Still, a lot less work than an electric conversion. Besides, you're going to have to drop the engine anyway as part of the conversion exercise. Granted, the van is one heavy piece of detroit steel, but what exactly is the hang-up? Voltage? Total weight? I'm guessing that most of the batterys' charge is used in overcoming inertia, right? The weight is the starting point for the issues. IIRC, this van weighs about 4,000 pounds empty. To get any kind of performance (say 0-30 mph in under 20 seconds) is going to take a lot of watts. Voltage doesn't matter - watts matter. (Watts is voltage times amps.) You will need a very large electric motor, something in the order of 40 hp continuous rating. Think mine locomotive, not golf cart. Everything gets heavier as a result. Heavier cables, heavier safety devices, heavier batteries, and they cycle keeps feeding on itself. The inertia should not be your biggest loss unless you are starting and stopping four times a mile. The GM van has the aerodynamics of a brick, so travelling at speed should be your biggest loss. *sigh* 'tis a daunting task at hand...but like the good doctor says, when the going gets weird, the weird get professional. So, sounds like I can safely rule out the use of a starter motor for a drive motor. Why did the van projects die in progress? Variety of factors. First is that most of these vans came with automatic transmissions. Adapters from an electric motor to the automatic tranny / torque converter were challenging. Then there is the issue of how to mount the motor in the engine space so it is braced against torque rotation, but not solidly locked to the frame. Getting a motor big enough was a factor. (500-amp starter generators were not up to the job.) Then there is the cost of 1,000 to 2,000 pounds of deep cycle batteries, mounting them securely, and beefing up the suspension to take the weight. Oh, and something to actually control the electricity from the pack to the motor is handy - also not cheap. Essentially, it just ends up expensive for disappointing returns. Best to learn on something cheaper. Another conversion did get onto the road. It mysteriously caught fire shortly after going into service. The owner was never satisfied with how it performed in the short time it was operational. There have been professional conversions of this platform as well. Look for Lucas-Chloride Bedford van electric conversions (probably the best) and the Magna G-Van conversions for more on how it was done when folks had big budgets. Check the specs. Then downrate everything by at least 50% to allow for doing things on the cheap and learning on the go. That's about the best you can hope for. --- Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think I might be able to contribute something on the subject. I strongly recommend you visit my Web site first. You might find something of interest starting at: http://www.econogics.com/ev/evindex.htm Some other folks have said kind things about the material there over the years. As to the specific points in your post. Forget the 1/2 ton van. Too heavy = too expensive to accomplish anything of value. I have personally watched two Chev van conversion projects die incomplete. 96 volts is pretty conventional, there's lots of components available there. However, it's not going to work with aircraft starter generators. Standard automotive batteries (starting, lighting, ignition: SLI) will not survive long in a deep-discharge application. There is plenty of experience to prove this out. Automotive starter motors as propulsion devices will die even faster. They are designed
Re: [Biofuel] Composting human manure
Some extra information from Tom Habasco. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada * the state is Michigan,Charlevoix county,Melrose twp. Michigan has legislation , Act 421-PA 1986 which allows for composting humanure.The local health dept. does not recognize. My compost does not leave the property, I cannot sell it, nor do I sell any food grown. They complain that composting humanure is illegal. We are headed for circuit court where I iether keep or lose my home and property. As a military vet, an enviromentalist, an organic farmer, a certified horticulturist, an honorary member of the tip of the mit watershed council we clean waterways, I cannot believe this is happening. And I agree that the health dept. should have to disprove composting effiecency. please lead me to documents in support of advantages of composting for ammunition in court. Thank You. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] humanure to humus
Jeez Keith, you may be quicker to point the finger than even myself! C'mon, I wasn't condemning this guys actions...quite to the contrary, I think it's great that he's making efficient use of his own waste...I'm just trying to evaluate the situation. I don't know that much about this subject, so I'm trying to hear/read all arguments for and against. And of course I know that government can be rediculous to deal with christ...I work for the pricks...I know all about beauracracies (sp.) I don't really know where Wes is coming from with his comments, but I wouldn't discourage anyone from humanure unless it was proven beyond a doubt that it was causing direct harm to people, or their environment...which I doubt it would..if done properly. I have some friends that live on a communal land trust (read: commune) close to where I live in northwestern washington state...they've been using hand-dug outdoor privies for as many years as I've known them, and have had no problems that I know of. Ok. Didn't mean to get all defensive like that. I guess that I don't deal well with harsh rebuttals or criticism. Sorry. Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wes and Luke I would be surprised if I am the only one on this list thinking it is a good thing to discourage this fellow. I'd be damn' disappointed if you weren't, but I suppose you'll probably win that one, so I'll brace myself for further disappointment, sigh... In our town I was shocked a few years ago when our town fathers decided to palletize our sewage and sell it to farmers. Fortunately other than spending good tax dollars there was little harm done. They could not find a market. I wonder what that's got to do with composting. If I am not mistaken environmentalists have been telling us that medicines are actually ending up in the rivers and streams in measurable amounts from waste water sewage plants. What's that got to do with composting? I had a friend (died of cancer) who once ran a small motel. He often offered produce from his garden that sat over his weeping tile. I always graciously declined. Of course I am not suggesting his cancer was related. For all I know the meds from plants may have helped him. This is the prejudice of sheer ignorance, and it's not acceptable here, especially not on this not unimportant and often-discussed topic. So you think medicines will survive composting, let alone faecal pathogens. In other words you don't know what composting is and you don't know what it does. But that doesn't stop you spouting all this stuff. Please do yourself, the rest of us, and the planet a favour and read this: http://www.journeytoforever.org/compost_humanure.html Humanure: Journey to Forever organic garden And also this (the whole section): http://www.journeytoforever.org/compost.html Composting: Journey to Forever As well as this: http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library/howard.html The work of Sir Albert Howard An Agricultural Testament by Sir Albert Howard http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#howard The Waste Products of Agriculture -- Their Utilization as Humus by Albert Howard and Yeshwant D. Wad http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#wpa Until you've done that, you're in no position to argue about it. FYI: ... The causative organisms of faecal-borne diseases are destroyed by aerobic composting, if temperatures in the thermophilic range are maintained for a sufficient time and all of the material is subjected to these temperatures. - From: Composting - Sanitary Disposal and Reclamation of Organic Wastes, Harold B. Gotaas, World Health Organization, Geneva, 1956, with many citations and a long list of references provided. Inter many alia. In other words normal composting. Aerobic composting means with oxygen, as opposed to sewage, which is anaerobic (without oxygen) and an altogether different process. Thermophilic means the temperature rises above 55 deg C (131 deg F). You'll find many references in the archives to compost temperatures at above 70 deg C (158 deg F). Wes Luke Hansen Sat, 23 Dec 2006 09:05:09 -0800 Ya know, I'm actually kinda curious to know how this guy is going about composting his waste... If you're that curious why not find out first? It's easy enough, he gives his reference as Joseph Jenkins (why did you cut his message? - I've put it back at the end). See eg: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg14830.html [biofuel] Re: Farmers Turn To Composting, Georgia, USA Which takes you both here: http://journeytoforever.org/compost_humanure.html Humanure: Journey to Forever And here: http://www.weblife.org/humanure/default.html Humanure Handbook: Contents A Guide to Composting Human Manure by Joseph Jenkins I've read a little about it, but never talked to anyone who's done it him/herself. I'm reading a cool book right now called Goodbye to the flush toilet... some late 70's idealistic commie-lib
