Re: [Biofuel] Purchasing a still for ethanol
Maximum 96% by distillation, 192-proof, then it stops because of azeotropism. The boiling temperature of 96% ethanol is lower than that of pure ethanol. snip With respect Keith, but if I'm not wrong, the boiling point of 96% is higher than that of pure ethanol. At that percentage the boiling point of the last bit of water is lower than 100° C, being exactly the same as that of 96%. Am I wrong ? Well, anyway not so important. We just cannot get it higher than 96% without other tricks like tholuene or benzene. BTW, tholuene isn't half as carcinogene as benzene, but I don't know if it works with tholuene. Greetings, Pieter. Best wishes Keith PS: Sorry I got waylaid Manickh, I haven't forgotten you, I'll get back to what we were discussing as soon as I can. All best meanwhile, K. Only up to 170-180 proof which could be used for E85 cars. To get 100% alcohol try extraction with castor oil of fermented liquor followed by simple distillation if castor oil does not dissolve any water. Please check this in JTF archives. If this does not work try azeotropic distillation of the 170 proof alcohol with toluene in which case simple distillation would suffice to remove the water leaving more concentrated alcohol in the still. Take care and first check MSDS data whether toluene is carcinogenic. Manickh Bob [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Where can I buy a still that can produce fuel grade ethanol (190 proof)? I have read that the charles 803 is a poor still and I have no access to anyone knowledgable enough to build a good enough still without accurate plans. I could possibly pay someone to build one if I knew exactly what to tell them to build. I have done google and JTF and searched this list but have come up with no one that operates a successful fuel still. Thanks Bob ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Morality test for you all
I would take a videocamara full color with zoom lens, wireless connected to the internet. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Deacidification
Hi Todd, There is a method of making biodiesel where all feedstock is converted to soap, then chemically cracked to 100% FFAs and esterified to yield ~100% biodiesel. But it's doubtful that you have the set up for something that involved at any moderate scale. What methode is that ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Deacidification
How stupid am I ?? When we remove the FFA's , we have only left the FFA's connected to a glyc molecule. Right so far ? The next step we do with the single stage is, breaking the fatty acids of the glyc molecule, which produces FFA's. (Not) right so far ? Next we connect a meth. molecule on top of the FFA's. So why do we have to remove the FFA's at the first place ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 10:48 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Deacidification Hi Ian Hi Folks I have tried the deacidification method with good results in the test batch. However when I heat the oil to process it foams agressivly. I assume this is the water/lye reacting? It leaves a thick layer of fat/soap? which i skim off leaving good oil, titration of 1ml instead of 7mls. For want of a better phrase, is this normal? You probably got some soapstock along with the oil, but it doesn't seem to matter much. Skimming it off is the right thing to do with it. Did you try processing the deacidified oil yet? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#deacid Make your own biodiesel - page 2: Deacidifying WVO Best wishes Keith Cheers Ian ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Problems, problems, problems
Thanks Keith, If the silicone is not what is gelling the BD, what else can it be ? I still make BD from other suppliers without problems, but as soon as I mix any oil from this particular adress in it, it turns hard. With hard I mean as hard as butter in a fridge, so not jelly. Ok, but IF it is caused by the silicone, what can we do ? Because we will have to deal with this more and more in the future. Thanks again. Dag Pieter Hello all, I found a new adres where I can collect quit a bit of good quality oil, well, that is what I thought. In this oil is added what we call E900 ( a european code ) which is dimethylpolysiloxaan, to avoid the oil from foaming when they bake their chips. From this oil I get one great big lump of solid stuff when I try to make BD from it. Can anyone please help me ? Of course I could go and look for another restaurant, but this E900 is used more and more, so I will meet this problem more often in the future. E900 is a polymere from silicone : (C2H6OSi)n It's used here in Japan too, we did some research on it when we first came here. We've processed a lot of oil with silicone anti-foaming agent in it and it hasn't made any difference. It's a very small proportion in the oil though, I don't recall the exact figure. Maybe they use more in the EU, but I doubt that's what gelling your biodiesel. Best wishes Keith Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Problems, problems, problems
No, I did not titrate, but made 9 batches of 20 ml in a tube, starting at 3½ gram / ltr of oil, next 4 grams per liter, 4½ grams/ltr etc. In this way I have made a lot of BD now and it works fine. There was no difference at all, they all turned hard and the color was like coffee with milk. The E900 so they call it, is added at a mixture of soja and palm oil or a mixture of rapeseedoil and palm oil, at a rate of 3 ppm. There is nothing else in it, so the manufacturer assured me. When I try good oil from other restaurants, everything is fine, but as soon as there is any oil from this man in it, I have the problems there. Of course a solution would be to stop collecting oil from there, but many restaurants use the same oil and they have the same scedule of renewing the oil. They sell high quality chips and snacks and the last thing I expect is, that they would use their oil too long. So, I have no idea what is happening. Could it be something like polymeres ? I don't know anything about polymeres, so maybe it's a stupid question. Thanks all in advance. Pieter. Pieter, I agree with Kieth, it probably is not the anti-foaming agent which is there in parts per million conc(?). Have you titrated the stuff? Maybe a very high free fatty acid content? Or maybe it is all saturated fat? Another possibility is that something is extracted into the cooking oil in significant quantities, which solidifies when it is diluted with more oil? Pieter Koole wrote: Thanks Keith, If the silicone is not what is gelling the BD, what else can it be ? I still make BD from other suppliers without problems, but as soon as I mix any oil from this particular adress in it, it turns hard. With hard I mean as hard as butter in a fridge, so not jelly. Ok, but IF it is caused by the silicone, what can we do ? Because we will have to deal with this more and more in the future. Thanks again. Dag Pieter Hello all, I found a new adres where I can collect quit a bit of good quality oil, well, that is what I thought. In this oil is added what we call E900 ( a european code ) which is dimethylpolysiloxaan, to avoid the oil from foaming when they bake their chips. From this oil I get one great big lump of solid stuff when I try to make BD from it. Can anyone please help me ? Of course I could go and look for another restaurant, but this E900 is used more and more, so I will meet this problem more often in the future. E900 is a polymere from silicone : (C2H6OSi)n It's used here in Japan too, we did some research on it when we first came here. We've processed a lot of oil with silicone anti-foaming agent in it and it hasn't made any difference. It's a very small proportion in the oil though, I don't recall the exact figure. Maybe they use more in the EU, but I doubt that's what gelling your biodiesel. Best wishes Keith Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Problems, problems, problems
Hello all, I found a new adres where I can collect quit a bit of good quality oil, well, that is what I thought. In this oil is added what we call E900 ( a european code ) which is dimethylpolysiloxaan, to avoid the oil from foaming when they bake their chips. From this oil I get one great big lump of solid stuff when I try to make BD from it. Can anyone please help me ? Of course I could go and look for another restaurant, but this E900 is used more and more, so I will meet this problem more often in the future. E900 is a polymere from silicone : (C2H6OSi)n Met dank en vriendelijke groet,Pieter KooleNetherlands ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Lignin crop redidue breakdown
My question is since composting does a good job of breaking down lignin, would it be possible to use composting as part of the ethanol creation process? I can imagine that the micro organisms "eat" also the sugars, leaving nothing for you to ferment to sugar. Greetings, Pieter Netherlands ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Question on methoxide
Hi friends, For some reason or another I made some horrible BD and started to doubt about what I am doing. So I decided to make a range of 12 bottles of sodiummethoxide, varying from 3½ to 9 grams of lye per liter. After mixing each liter of methanol with exactly the amount of lye, I found out that the first liter was almost still one liter, and the last liter was app. 10% less, with every next bottle a little less than the one before. If it would be the evaporation, every bottle would lose the same amount, so it must have to do something with the reaction between methanol and lye. Can anyone give me the answer on the question what is the chemical reaction ? Or is there something else happening which I don't know ? The next question is of course, do I need 200 ml of the mixture (so that would be more concentrated than 200 ml methanol + for example 4 grams of lye) ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] emulsion wash test
With permission : The whole discussion has nothing to do with emulsion wash test. Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel
Velen bedankt, maar in een 3rde Wereld dorpje is wallpaperglue nie so maklik te vind, en jy kan dit ook nie maklik self maak van locally available renewable resources. Veel dank, maar in een 3e wereld dorpje is behangplaksel niet zo makkelijk te vinden en je kan dit ook niet makkelijk zelf maken van plaatselijk herbruikbare materialen. Wanneer het jy al ooit erger Nederlands dan die gelesen?!! LOL! Maar miskien kan u dit verstaan... Wanneer heb je zulk slecht Nederlands gelezen ? Maar misschien kun je dit begrijpen. Nee Keith, ik maak geen grapje. Sommige mensen op deze wereld denken dat Nederland de hoofdstad van Denemarken is. Je moet al Nederlandstalig opgegroeid zijn, anders is het erg moeilijk om de taal te leren. Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel
Wauw !! Somebody - and not JUST somebody - on this forum writing in real Dutch. Very good Keith. Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel Dag Pieter Hello, Sorry if I start talking about something you are not talking about, because I did not follow this discussion, but I think I can make up that you try to solidify ethanol. You can do that very easy with wallpaperglue ( Carboxyl methyl cellulose ). Just use ethanol in stead of water and make strong glue. Velen bedankt, maar in een 3rde Wereld dorpje is wallpaperglue nie so maklik te vind, en jy kan dit ook nie maklik self maak van locally available renewable resources. Wanneer het jy al ooit erger Nederlands dan die gelesen?!! LOL! Maar miskien kan u dit verstaan... Beste wense Keith Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 5:24 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel There is (apparently) more than one recipe for sterno. We had a thread going a while back that included a method: calcium acetate (egg shells and vinegar) with ethanol. This is from a previous message on ethanol gel: Keith Addison wrote: Mix 11 grams of Calcium Acetate with 30 mg of water. Make sure all the Calcium Acetate is dissolved, this might take an hour of occasional stirring. Measure 10 mg of the solution. Slowly add 40 mg of ethanol. As you add the ethanol, the mixture should gel instantly. Pour off any remaining ethanol (a very small amount). Because the mixture gels instantly, you do not have to combine the two until you need to use it for cooking. I made some Calcium Acetate by neutralizing acetic acid with lime. Works well, gels immediately, burns very nicely, but it's not very stable, best to make it when you need it. This way, since it's bioduels in the Third World rural development setting that we're most interested in, everything required is probably available locally, or could be. Ethanol can be brewed on-site (and probably is already), even if it's not absolute; acetic acid can be brewed the same way, by aerating the mash, and agricultural lime is fairly ubiquitous. Also, from Hoagy (chalk and vinegar, sunshine and moonshine): Some other jelled gelled alcohol ideas -- Zen Gelled Alcohol Stoves - Sterno-like Stoves Jelled/Gelled Alcohol http://zenstoves.net/Sterno.htm Extreme do it yourselfers can make their own gelled fuel at home with alcohol and calcium acetate (C4H6CaO4). Either methanol or ethanol can be used for fuel. Calcium acetate (C4H6CaO4) can be purchased or made by slowly dissolving calcium carbonate (eggshells or chalk) in vinegar, filtering, and allowing to dry. If you are new to chemistry take a look at this high school science project page. Chemical Reactions and Solid Fuel http://www.montvilleschools.org/highschool/science/edorff/chemistry/fu elslab.htm A solid camping fuel like Sternoô was discovered several years ago when a group of campers forgot to pack fuel for their camp stove. Because the area prohibited use of campfires, the campers needed to use an alternative fuel source. One of the campers made a gel that they could use as a solid fuel. To make this gel, chalk was crushed and mixed with vinegar. The resulting mixture was filtered through a napkin and the liquid collected was heated using a solar reflector. Some rubbing alcohol was poured into the solution to form a gel which burned. Step 1: Reaction between chalk (calcium carbonate) and vinegar (acetic acid, dilute) to produce carbon dioxide, water and calcium acetate . . . Step 2: Filtration of unreacted chalk from the mixture to leave a solution of calcium acetate in water . . . Step 3: Removal of excess water from calcium acetate solution . . . Step 4: Mixing alcohol with calcium acetate to form fuel . . . Step 5: Combustion of fuel produced . . . Step 6: Evaluation of fuels produced . . . [more] Baking Bread (And Other Recipes) With An Alcohol Stove http://trailquest.net/baking.html Cloudwalker's Homemade Alcohol Stove http://www.cloudwalkersatpage.com/page014.html The Gelled Alcohol Stove Fuel - Calcium Acetate http://wings.interfree.it/html/Gelalcohol.html Mike TarynToo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isn't jelly solid ethanol Sterno fuel? Or is Sterno made with methanol? It's hard to imagine that there's any energy advantage to jellied fuels over woody plants for cooking purposes, I know that many third world areas have extreme shortages of cooking fuels or firewood, but it seems like that's
Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly
Hi Todd, Thanks for your answer. I have never had any good results with acid/base reactions, so my question is, can I also make BD from the FFA's with the single base reaction ? Thanks again in advance. Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 12:38 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly Pieter, The broken soap is nothing more than free fatty acids, with a glycerol/alcohol/water/residual-acid layer beneath it and (if using potassium hydroxide as the original catalyst) solid fertilizer beneath that. FFAs in their pure form are only slightly more viscous (hadly noticeable) than biodiesel and can be run in an indirect injection diesel as is or heated and run through a veg-oil converted system. Or, you can convert them to biodiesel with acid/base processing. Todd Swearingen Pieter Koole wrote: And what can you do with the broken soap ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 11:45 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly Derick, Still, treat a small sample with concentrated sufuric or phosphoric acid and observe. Todd Swearingen DERICK GIORCHINO wrote: Thanks for the response. I feel that I may not have explained that there isn't a layer it's almost a solid mass. It is about 95 deg f outside and if I turn the soda bottle on its side it slides inside the bottle as one lump retaining the shape of the bottom of the bottle. If I shake it hard it does brake up somewhat. Kind of like when the old super ball was broken. I feel that I now have super glop. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Appal Energy Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 5:51 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly But is the jelly a typical sign of over dosing? I have a problem with disposing of the mess I have made if there is a way to salvage it. Take a small sample and see how much concentrated sulfuric or phosphoric acid it takes to crack the soap portion of the top jelly layer. This is the same thing that is done with the glyc cocktail to recover the free fatty acids. Todd Swearingen DERICK GIORCHINO wrote: Hi Keith More Thanks for you response. I tried the world famous chop stick titration technique. Wow what a difference in my titration #. I did a 1 ltr test in a soda bottle, with excellent result almost instantly. But here is where I got into trouble. The next batch was 20 liters I had some methoxide mixed from a prior batch that was also a failure and I couldn't figure what to do with the toxic mix so I tried to dilute it to 10 g.p. liter. I did my mixing of the 20 liters. As it cooled it turned into what looks like lard. I felt that I may have overdosed it. So I then took some test bottles and put 20% failure oil and 75% fresh wvo set it in the sun to melt/ liquefy. (105 deg F) shook it hard also a 50/50 mix in the hot state it seamed to separate better 25/75 than the 50/50 but as the sun went down and it cooled the 25/75 started to jell and the glycerol layer vanished but the 50/50 looked much better with a glycerol layer jelled at the bottom. I m not asking for a fix. But is the jelly a typical sign of over dosing? I have a problem with disposing of the mess I have made if there is a way to salvage it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 8:58 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: RE: [Biofuel] RE: Phenolphthalein solution Hi Derick May be there is some help for me out there. I have made lots and lots of test batches. Most of them bad not good. One border line. And one 15 gal batch with fairly good results. I have used all the options given for titration in the J.T. Forever. Test strips work ... poorly, if at all, and are not recommended by JtF. but after introducing it to the mix I find if I need to add more solution the color will not change so I need to add strip after strip as I add the solution accuracy is probably off by the time I get done P.H. meter a good one I found to be about the same pH meters work well, especially if it's a good one, you shouldn't be having problems. and I have used phenolphthalein and get excellent response but im no chemist Very few of us are. can anyone tell me how much phenolphthalein to use on the test I
Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel
Hello, Sorry if I start talking about something you are not talking about, because I did not follow this discussion, but I think I can make up that you try to solidify ethanol. You can do that very easy with wallpaperglue ( Carboxyl methyl cellulose ). Just use ethanol in stead of water and make strong glue. Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 5:24 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel There is (apparently) more than one recipe for sterno. We had a thread going a while back that included a method: calcium acetate (egg shells and vinegar) with ethanol. This is from a previous message on ethanol gel: Keith Addison wrote: Mix 11 grams of Calcium Acetate with 30 mg of water. Make sure all the Calcium Acetate is dissolved, this might take an hour of occasional stirring. Measure 10 mg of the solution. Slowly add 40 mg of ethanol. As you add the ethanol, the mixture should gel instantly. Pour off any remaining ethanol (a very small amount). Because the mixture gels instantly, you do not have to combine the two until you need to use it for cooking. I made some Calcium Acetate by neutralizing acetic acid with lime. Works well, gels immediately, burns very nicely, but it's not very stable, best to make it when you need it. This way, since it's bioduels in the Third World rural development setting that we're most interested in, everything required is probably available locally, or could be. Ethanol can be brewed on-site (and probably is already), even if it's not absolute; acetic acid can be brewed the same way, by aerating the mash, and agricultural lime is fairly ubiquitous. Also, from Hoagy (chalk and vinegar, sunshine and moonshine): Some other jelled gelled alcohol ideas -- Zen Gelled Alcohol Stoves - Sterno-like Stoves Jelled/Gelled Alcohol http://zenstoves.net/Sterno.htm Extreme do it yourselfers can make their own gelled fuel at home with alcohol and calcium acetate (C4H6CaO4). Either methanol or ethanol can be used for fuel. Calcium acetate (C4H6CaO4) can be purchased or made by slowly dissolving calcium carbonate (eggshells or chalk) in vinegar, filtering, and allowing to dry. If you are new to chemistry take a look at this high school science project page. Chemical Reactions and Solid Fuel http://www.montvilleschools.org/highschool/science/edorff/chemistry/fu elslab.htm A solid camping fuel like Sternoô was discovered several years ago when a group of campers forgot to pack fuel for their camp stove. Because the area prohibited use of campfires, the campers needed to use an alternative fuel source. One of the campers made a gel that they could use as a solid fuel. To make this gel, chalk was crushed and mixed with vinegar. The resulting mixture was filtered through a napkin and the liquid collected was heated using a solar reflector. Some rubbing alcohol was poured into the solution to form a gel which burned. Step 1: Reaction between chalk (calcium carbonate) and vinegar (acetic acid, dilute) to produce carbon dioxide, water and calcium acetate . . . Step 2: Filtration of unreacted chalk from the mixture to leave a solution of calcium acetate in water . . . Step 3: Removal of excess water from calcium acetate solution . . . Step 4: Mixing alcohol with calcium acetate to form fuel . . . Step 5: Combustion of fuel produced . . . Step 6: Evaluation of fuels produced . . . [more] Baking Bread (And Other Recipes) With An Alcohol Stove http://trailquest.net/baking.html Cloudwalker's Homemade Alcohol Stove http://www.cloudwalkersatpage.com/page014.html The Gelled Alcohol Stove Fuel - Calcium Acetate http://wings.interfree.it/html/Gelalcohol.html Mike TarynToo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isn't jelly solid ethanol Sterno fuel? Or is Sterno made with methanol? It's hard to imagine that there's any energy advantage to jellied fuels over woody plants for cooking purposes, I know that many third world areas have extreme shortages of cooking fuels or firewood, but it seems like that's a distribution problem, more than a real shortage. Using firewood doesn't necessarily mean deforestation as often alleged, very often it means local forests are maintained instead. Where there are shortages (very serious shortages on some places) it's usually due more to other reasons. Indoor smoke pollution is probably a bigger problem than energy efficiency, and indeed energy efficiency itself usually boils down to making the best use of what you've got rather than a matter of comparative btu's or whatever. This bit of a previous message might be of interest: Not all the work with improved woodstoves is convincing. Often the target communities also aren't convinced. Some comparisons have found
Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly
And what can you do with the broken soap ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 11:45 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly Derick, Still, treat a small sample with concentrated sufuric or phosphoric acid and observe. Todd Swearingen DERICK GIORCHINO wrote: Thanks for the response. I feel that I may not have explained that there isn't a layer it's almost a solid mass. It is about 95 deg f outside and if I turn the soda bottle on its side it slides inside the bottle as one lump retaining the shape of the bottom of the bottle. If I shake it hard it does brake up somewhat. Kind of like when the old super ball was broken. I feel that I now have super glop. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Appal Energy Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 5:51 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly But is the jelly a typical sign of over dosing? I have a problem with disposing of the mess I have made if there is a way to salvage it. Take a small sample and see how much concentrated sulfuric or phosphoric acid it takes to crack the soap portion of the top jelly layer. This is the same thing that is done with the glyc cocktail to recover the free fatty acids. Todd Swearingen DERICK GIORCHINO wrote: Hi Keith More Thanks for you response. I tried the world famous chop stick titration technique. Wow what a difference in my titration #. I did a 1 ltr test in a soda bottle, with excellent result almost instantly. But here is where I got into trouble. The next batch was 20 liters I had some methoxide mixed from a prior batch that was also a failure and I couldn't figure what to do with the toxic mix so I tried to dilute it to 10 g.p. liter. I did my mixing of the 20 liters. As it cooled it turned into what looks like lard. I felt that I may have overdosed it. So I then took some test bottles and put 20% failure oil and 75% fresh wvo set it in the sun to melt/ liquefy. (105 deg F) shook it hard also a 50/50 mix in the hot state it seamed to separate better 25/75 than the 50/50 but as the sun went down and it cooled the 25/75 started to jell and the glycerol layer vanished but the 50/50 looked much better with a glycerol layer jelled at the bottom. I m not asking for a fix. But is the jelly a typical sign of over dosing? I have a problem with disposing of the mess I have made if there is a way to salvage it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 8:58 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: RE: [Biofuel] RE: Phenolphthalein solution Hi Derick May be there is some help for me out there. I have made lots and lots of test batches. Most of them bad not good. One border line. And one 15 gal batch with fairly good results. I have used all the options given for titration in the J.T. Forever. Test strips work ... poorly, if at all, and are not recommended by JtF. but after introducing it to the mix I find if I need to add more solution the color will not change so I need to add strip after strip as I add the solution accuracy is probably off by the time I get done P.H. meter a good one I found to be about the same pH meters work well, especially if it's a good one, you shouldn't be having problems. and I have used phenolphthalein and get excellent response but im no chemist Very few of us are. can anyone tell me how much phenolphthalein to use on the test I have been using 2 drops @ 1% phenolphthalein. The instructions from J.T.F say use 1% phenolphthalein solution (1.0w/v%). If you can please help. Thanks Derick You say: The instructions from J.T.F say use 1% phenolphthalein solution (1.0w/v%). The instructions at JtF say: Add 2 drops of phenolphthalein solution. Dissolve 1 gm of lye in 1 litre of distilled water (0.1% w/v lye solution). In a smaller beaker, dissolve 1 ml of the cooled oil in 10 ml of pure isopropyl alcohol. Warm the beaker gently by standing it in some hot water, stir until all the oil dissolves in the alcohol and turns clear. Add 2 drops of phenolphthalein solution. Using a graduated syringe, add 0.1% lye solution drop by drop to the oil-alcohol-phenolphthalein solution, stirring all the time, until the solution starts to turn pink and stays that way for 10 seconds. -- From: Biodiesel from waste oil http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#biodwvo See also: More about lye How much lye to use? Basic titration Better titration Accurate measurements pH meters Phenolphthalein pH meters vs phenolphthalein http://journeytoforever.org
Re: [Biofuel] Compost Update
Hello, I would say, just put your compost on the surface. The rain as well as little animals like worms will take it into the ground. This is also the way it happens in natural forests. Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole - Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 9:18 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Compost Update We have a new neighbor, a friendly, English fellow who noticed that I was turning my compost pile this morning. He came over, interested in my work, and asked several questions about composting. We also talked about my garden, which is, apparently, a rather hot topic of discussion among the people who live around here . . . I think my current batch of compost is too wet. After a couple of weeks in the bin, the bottom of the pile is dark brown, crumbly, smells like the forest floor and is crawling with worms and other small creatures. However, many of the long fibers from plant roots and stalks haven't fully decomposed (no, I don't own a shredder!), and the middle of the pile looks too wet. I've mixed in some dry material and put it back together, leaving it for the detritus creatures to handle. My questions with respect to all of this relates to digging compost in around my trees. When we go about weeding, I've noticed that digging near the trees runs a high risk of damaging surface roots. How can I dig all of this compost around my trees without wrecking the root network? Do I just pile the compost onto the surface and let it decompose further into the ground, or should I be less concerned about surface roots and dig the composted material into the soil around the drip line? How far down should I be going? Is this time of year the best time of year to be doing this, or should I save the compost for the fall? robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782 Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Burning glycerol for heat / Acrolein
There is a safe way of using nitroglycerin, but I would say that nitroglycerine is not a toy. Don't play with it and leave the use of it to professionals. Metvriendelijke groet,Pieter KooleOriginal Message - From: r To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 10:45 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Burning glycerol for heat / Acrolein How about combining the glycerin with nitrogen to create nitroglycerin? I know, nitrogen is explosive but so is hydrogen. The engines in our vehicles are using what is called "explosion propulsion". Exploding fuel pushes against pistons which are linked to a shaft, which is linked to the transmission. There must be a safe way to use nitroglycerin.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The chemical kinetics of fire is not understood very well. Smoking a cigarette will produce thousands of intermediate radicals, which will lead to thousands of end products, many of which are harmful. Altering temperature and other variables will lead to different end products. So unless you have empirical evidence on a specific substance, it's hard to know what is going to happen. I know people do burn it as a fuel, but I wouldn't recommend doing it in your kitchen, for instance. R Del Bueno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all,I am considering the use of my glycerol coproduct as a burner fuel for process heat generation (indirect via boiler).My glycerol generated while running 20% methanol is of very low viscosity (mostly likely due to the excess methanol), and seems quite usable. This may be more advantageous than recover when heating large batches.I have been searching for emissions information on this, as I have heard that toxic acrolein is produced.when glycerin is burnt at temps below 1800degF. (I have heard this about WVO/SVO usage as well).My question is how much?...as acrolein is also produced burning gasoline, diesel, and cigarettes.It seems that if the amount of acrolein produced by burning the gylerol waste is LESS than the amount that would be produced by burning the amount of petro diesel that is offset by the biodiesel..then net amount of acrolein is still a reduction, and hence acceptable.Any data out there?Any chemists out there who may be able to calculate an approximation?Molecular formula C3H4O (..that's little 3, little 4)-Rob..Info on Acrolein:Acrolein is principally used as a chemical intermediate in the production of acrylic acid and itsesters. Acrolein is used directly as an aquatic herbicide and algicide in irrigation canals, as amicrobiocide in oil wells, liquid hydrocarbon fuels, cooling-water towers and water treatmentponds, and as a slimicide in the manufacture of paper (IARC, 1985). Combustion of fossil fuels,tobacco smoke, and pyrolyzed animal and vegetable fats contribute to the environmentalprevalence of acrolein (IARC, 1985). Acrolein is a byproduct of fires and is one of several acutetoxicants which firefighters must endure. It is also formed from atmospheric reactions of 1,3-butadiene. The annual statewide industrial emissions from facilities reporting under the AirToxics Hot Spots Act in California based on the most recent inventory were estimated to be54,565 pounds of acrolein (CARB, 2000).CHRONIC TOXICITY SUMMARYACROLEIN (2-propenal, acraldehyde, allyl aldehyde, acryl aldehyde)CAS Registry Number: 107-02-8I. Chronic Toxicity SummaryInhalation reference exposure level 0.06 mg/m3 (0.03 ppb)Critical effect(s) Histological changes in nasal epithelium in ratsHazard index target(s) Respiratory system; eyesII. Physical and Chemical Properties (HSDB, 1995)Description Colorless or yellow liquid with piercing,disagreeable odorMolecular formula C3H4O (oops..thats litte 3, little 4)Molecular weight 56.1 g/molDensity 0.843 g/cm3 @ 20°CBoiling point 53°CMelting point -88°CVapor pressure 220 torr @ 20°COdor threshold 160 ppb (370 mg/m3)(Amoore and Hautala, 1983)Solubility Soluble in ethanol, diethyl ether, and up to 20% w/v in waterConversion factor 1 ppm = 2.3 mg/m3 @ 25° C ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list
[Biofuel] To Andrew : Desalination
Hello, I am interested in a desalination system as well. Can you provide me some info on that ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands - Original Message - From: Andrew Lowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 3:34 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Magnesol Chris Sommerfeld wrote: I manage a small biodiesel lab at a school here in the Bahamas. We currently make about 250 gal a week. Within the next month we plan to expand to make about 450 gal a week. We are always looking for new ways to improve our processing. Currently we use bubble washing in the wash/dry stage. Water is very presious for us and I am intersted in using Magnesol instead of water to purify our fuel. [snip] Just out of interest, why don't you build a small solar desalination system - besides the financial reasons, I thought the reason people when to the Bahama's was for sunshine!!! I'm sure Keith probably has squirreled away on JtoF plans for a low tech solar desalination system that would provide you with the water you need. If JtoF has nothing, get back to me, I know of a simple setup that could probably be made for a couple of hundred dollars. Regards, Andrew Lowe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Reprocessing question
What do you mean by 90.5% KOH ? If the rest (9.5%) is water, that is where your problem is. With water, oil and KOH you have the right recepy to make soap. Try to get the KOH or NaOH as pure as you can get it. Succes. Metvriendelijke groet,Pieter Koole - Original Message - From: Bill Clark To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 7:34 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Reprocessing question Hi Keith and all, I made a 200 gallon batch of biodiesel last Friday. I used 200 gallons of wvo, 40 gallons of methanol, and 16.5 lbs of 90.5% anhydrous KOH from a titration of 4.5 g/L. After draining off the glycerine I took a 400 ml sample and performed a shake test.I got an emulsion. I added a couple of grains of calcium chloride and a thimble of vinegar and got perfect separation in about 10 minutes. As you know, I have addressed the question of soft water in the wash and while the addition of calcium chloride and vinegar have yet to produce a poor result, I am troubled by this initial emulsion formation using plain water. Today I took 1 litre od the biodiesel and reprocessed it. I used 200 ml of methanol and 5.4 grams of 90.5% KOH, preheated the oil to 120 F and blended for 20 minutes. After 1 hour there was no detectable settling of anything. The biodiesel remains in one phase that is slightly darker than the original biodiesel and somewhat cloudy. Does anyone think that I have a concern here or am I just being paranoid? Thanks for any comments, Bill Clark ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Electronic PH meter
Hi, Is phenolphtalein the same as phenol red ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 3:52 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Electronic PH meter Howdy Kieth and Willem, the issue of the use of a pH meter as opposed to other methods for determination of the end point of a titration comes up from time to time. It seems that many believe one really needs a pH meter. I think not and here is why. Although a pH meter may be more accurate if all the variables were tightly controlled, they're not. How accurately can one measure the 1 ml of oil? One maybe two significant digits? If different oils have different densities, (they do but small) then one should really adjust the volume of oil used in the titration accordingly. Because density is a function of temperature, how accurately does one know the temperature? How accurately can one prepare the titrant solution? How accurately can one measure the titrant? Finally the titration is done in a nonaqueous heterogeneous solution, hence pH isn't even strictly defined; pH being defined as minus the log of the hydrogen ion concentration in water. If you heat the oil/isopropyl alcohol mix to get homogeneity, the hydrogen ion concentration changes. (It is actually worse, it is the hydrogen ion activity, but that is another matter.) Hence use of a pH meter to me is overkill. What you get is a very precise endpoint for a titration which is really fairly inaccurate, due to the aforementioned difficulties in the volumetric measurements, temperature, etc. I use phenolphthalein to determine the endpoint. It is quick, requires no calibration, costs a heck of a lot less than a pH meter, and provides sufficient precision for the measurement at hand. Hi Willem Hi all, I am slowly getting the parts together to construct a small biodiesel set-up (approx. 30 litres). When I told a friend recently avout my plans he gave me an electronic PH meter, pen type. Accuracy is 1 decimal. He said this would replace the titration, but could give me no more info. It won't replace titration, you use it for titration. You can use phenolphthalein, or pH test strips, or a pH meter - whichever you use, titration involves measuring the pH. See: Basic titration Better titration pH meters Phenolphthalein http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#titrate pH meters are best, IMO. You need to calibrate them often (get calibration fluid from a lab supply) and you have to look after them properly. There's a Technical tips link at the url above. Best wishes Keith Can anyone tell me if this is so and how I convert the reading to the amount of lye to be used? Best regards, Willem ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Electronic PH meter
Thanks Keith. Pieter Koole - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 2:05 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Fw: Electronic PH meter Hello Pieter Hi, Is phenolphtalein the same as phenol red ? No. You've already got the link, below: Basic titration Better titration pH meters Phenolphthalein http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#titrate It says: Phenolphthalein is often confused with phenol red, obtained at pool supply stores and used for checking water. It's not the same thing, and phenol red won't really do for titrating WVO, its pH range isn't broad enough. It ranges from pH 6.8, at which point it's yellow, through orange, to a maximum of pH 8.2, red. For accurate titration you need to be able to measure pH 8.5. Phenolphthalein is colorless up to pH 8.3, then it turns pink (magenta), and red at its maximum of pH 10.4. When it stays pink for more than 10 seconds, it's measuring pH 8.5. With good-quality oil with low FFA levels you might just get away with using phenol red for titration, but for higher FFA levels it isn't accurate enough. Use 1% phenolphthalein solution (1.0w/v%). Why don't you read the whole page, Pieter? Both pages: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html Make your own biodiesel http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html Make your own biodiesel - page 2 Keith Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole - Original Message - From: bob allen bob at ozarker.org To: Biofuel at sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 3:52 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Electronic PH meter Howdy Kieth and Willem, the issue of the use of a pH meter as opposed to other methods for determination of the end point of a titration comes up from time to time. It seems that many believe one really needs a pH meter. I think not and here is why. Although a pH meter may be more accurate if all the variables were tightly controlled, they're not. How accurately can one measure the 1 ml of oil? One maybe two significant digits? If different oils have different densities, (they do but small) then one should really adjust the volume of oil used in the titration accordingly. Because density is a function of temperature, how accurately does one know the temperature? How accurately can one prepare the titrant solution? How accurately can one measure the titrant? Finally the titration is done in a nonaqueous heterogeneous solution, hence pH isn't even strictly defined; pH being defined as minus the log of the hydrogen ion concentration in water. If you heat the oil/isopropyl alcohol mix to get homogeneity, the hydrogen ion concentration changes. (It is actually worse, it is the hydrogen ion activity, but that is another matter.) Hence use of a pH meter to me is overkill. What you get is a very precise endpoint for a titration which is really fairly inaccurate, due to the aforementioned difficulties in the volumetric measurements, temperature, etc. I use phenolphthalein to determine the endpoint. It is quick, requires no calibration, costs a heck of a lot less than a pH meter, and provides sufficient precision for the measurement at hand. Hi Willem Hi all, I am slowly getting the parts together to construct a small biodiesel set-up (approx. 30 litres). When I told a friend recently avout my plans he gave me an electronic PH meter, pen type. Accuracy is 1 decimal. He said this would replace the titration, but could give me no more info. It won't replace titration, you use it for titration. You can use phenolphthalein, or pH test strips, or a pH meter - whichever you use, titration involves measuring the pH. See: Basic titration Better titration pH meters Phenolphthalein http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#titrate pH meters are best, IMO. You need to calibrate them often (get calibration fluid from a lab supply) and you have to look after them properly. There's a Technical tips link at the url above. Best wishes Keith Can anyone tell me if this is so and how I convert the reading to the amount of lye to be used? Best regards, Willem ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering WVO with vacuum and heat
Thank you, I'll have a look round. Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole - Original Message - From: des [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering WVO with vacuum and heat Pieter Koole wrote: Where does one find a vacuumpump ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole They are used regularly in garages that work on airconditioning systems in cars, also used in home airconditioning systems, refrigerators, freezers... They are used to remove water from the refrigerant systems during repairs. I've seen them on eBay. doug swanson ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering WVO with vacuum and heat
Thank you. Does anyone know how much vacuum is created by a fridge pump ? I would think that if you can create enough vacuum , maybe with another type of pump, it should be possible to distill water out of oil, or make =90% ethanol at room temperature. Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 1:23 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering WVO with vacuum and heat You can find one from an old fridge... The compressor. Black thingie... Mine cort me about 3$ at the junk yard. You can use it for sucking and pumping... Teoman -- original message -- Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering WVO with vacuum and heat From: Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 14th May 2005 9:41:42 Where does one find a vacuumpump ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole - Original Message - From: R Del Bueno [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 2:15 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering WVO with vacuum and heat So today I hooked up a water heater as a dewatering/vacuum boiler. The 40 gallon electric water heater held 26 of vacuum all afternoon. Will post details of actual dewatering soon. -Rob ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering WVO with vacuum and heat
Where does one find a vacuumpump ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole - Original Message - From: R Del Bueno [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 2:15 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering WVO with vacuum and heat So today I hooked up a water heater as a dewatering/vacuum boiler. The 40 gallon electric water heater held 26 of vacuum all afternoon. Will post details of actual dewatering soon. -Rob ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering WVO with vacuum and heat
Vapor pressure at 140 F for water is 150 mm Hg or equiv of 24 in vacuum but you will need to go Isn't the normal atmospheric pressure 76 mm HG ?? If yes, I don't understand what is written above. If no, I also don't understand. Is it possible to give a little explanation ? (because I have been thinking on this subject also ). Is there a table or so, where one can find at what pressures water boils ? Pieter Koole Netherlands - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 11:48 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering WVO with vacuum and heat Rob, I think a water heater will stand the vacuum easily since it is at the most 15 PSI compression on the steel, compared to 150 or more in tension when in normal use. Not sure it will save energy. Vapor pressure at 140 F for water is 150 mm Hg or equiv of 24 in vacuum but you will need to go lower to get the water to burst into foamy bubbles. (or higher temp) Probably will be easier on the oil, than doing it at atmospheric pressure.___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering WVO with vacuum and heat
Normal atmospheric pressure is 760 mm or 76 cm or 30 inches. 150 mm is about 150/760 atmospheres absolute. 24'Vacuum is 30 minus (150mm/25.4mm/in) Handbook of chemistry and physics, crc publishing or probably many places on the net. google vapor pressure of water. Of course. I new that. Stupid me ! Sorry. Pieter Koole - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 3:24 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering WVO with vacuum and heat Normal atmospheric pressure is 760 mm or 76 cm or 30 inches. 150 mm is about 150/760 atmospheres absolute. 24'Vacuum is 30 minus (150mm/25.4mm/in) Handbook of chemistry and physics, crc publishing or probably many places on the net. google vapor pressure of water. Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] t.nlcc: Sent by: Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering WVO with vacuum and heat biofuel-bounces@ wwia.org 05/12/2005 04:26 PM Please respond to biofuel Vapor pressure at 140 F for water is 150 mm Hg or equiv of 24 in vacuum but you will need to go Isn't the normal atmospheric pressure 76 mm HG ?? If yes, I don't understand what is written above. If no, I also don't understand. Is it possible to give a little explanation ? (because I have been thinking on this subject also ). Is there a table or so, where one can find at what pressures water boils ? Pieter Koole Netherlands - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 11:48 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering WVO with vacuum and heat Rob, I think a water heater will stand the vacuum easily since it is at the most 15 PSI compression on the steel, compared to 150 or more in tension when in normal use. Not sure it will save energy. Vapor pressure at 140 F for water is 150 mm Hg or equiv of 24 in vacuum but you will need to go lower to get the water to burst into foamy bubbles. (or higher temp) Probably will be easier on the oil, than doing it at atmospheric pressure.___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Stir vs Pump Processing
Hi Ken, My experience with pump mixing is ok, but I think you bring more oxygin in the mixture with pump mixing when you let the incoming stream (so coming from the pump) which I did, above the top of the mixture. That causes a layer of high oxygin glycerin(?) floating on top of the BD. This glycerin - I am not sure wheather it is glycerin - is loss of product. Whith mixing or pumping, I would think the energy use is about the same. At this moment I use the electromotor of my previous pump as a stirring motor. Maybe the place where to put your mixing device is important to make sure you are not only moving around the whole lot, but realy to a proper mixing. I found that puting the spoon(?) on about one-third from the edge. Sorry about my probably terrible English at the moment. I have been speaking German all day, which is also not my mother's language. Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole - Original Message - From: Ken Dunn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 1:13 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Stir vs Pump Processing Hi all, I'm trying to determine which method, stirring or pumping, will consume less elctricity before I make my processor. Obviously, it depends on the equipment employed but, in theory. It sounds like reaction times are shorter with stirring than with pump mixing. Likewise, from what I read, it appears that stirring provides a more reliable reaction. It also seems like more people use pumps to mix their brew but, it also appears that there are more problems with pumping than with stirring - maybe this is a miscalculation on my part, though. And maybe it is just an indication that most everyone uses pump hence the greater trouble available to be found. Thanks in advance, Ken ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Questions about ethanol
Thank you. No, I don't mean methanol. I mean ethanol, fermented out of the sugars from cellulose is build up. When you break cellulose, you get sugars as far as I understand. Tomorrow I have some more time to write down the details so far. Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands - Original Message - From: Dean Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 3:01 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Questions about ethanol Hi Pieter, Sorry I could be mistaken there is always something new to learn but do you mean methanol instead of ethanol. Methanol is otherwise known as wood alcohol and a small amount is formed during on the grain fermentation during the making of alcohol (Ethanol) beverages the Grain husks being the wood part. Not noing any better or of it is even possible I would imagine that the only alcohol able to be formed from sawdust could be methanol. To make ethanol you ferment sugars. To work out the Ethanol content of ethanol/water mix, at any local home-brew shop you can purchase hydrometers. Beer/wine hydrometers are good up to 20% Spirit hydrometers are good up to 100% about the best you can hope for at home is 95-96%. Dean. Pieter Koole wrote: Hi all, I would like to give it another try to make ethanol from sawdust or other cellulose materials. In the past I have tried Sawdust ethanol production which I read somewhere I think on JTF, but didn't succeed. Well, IF I succeed this time, how can I now the % of ethanol and water ? I have zeolite, so I should be able to dry the ethanol. Can I measure the gravity to be sure enough I have 100% ethanol ? Would zeolite also adsorbe the alcohol ? If yes, what to do ? Drying the zeolite would cause loss of ethanol.or ?? Any advice on making ethanol from sawdust or newspapers would be very welcome. Another - maybe stupid - question : Sometimes I read snip in the messages. What does that mean ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] A nice experience
Thanks for your answer. What other problems can it cause, exept for a bad start on cold mornings ? I used 40 liters of phosphoric acid on 1000 liters of glop. Of course first I made some mini batches to find out wether it would work and figured out that I needed about 40 liters of 75% of acid. Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands - Original Message - From: Kenneth Kron (CEO) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 4:28 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] A nice experience That's right Pieter, the phosphoric acid cracked the soap back into FFA's. In small quantities it wont hurt anything in large quantities it will hurt something. In the netherlands your primary problem is probably that FFA's will drive up you jell point on you wont be able to start your car on a cold morning. If you knew how much phosphoric you used you could guess *at the FFA content of your fuel *of FFA's your running on. If you acid treated the glycerin and knew how much FFA's you got out of that you'd have another guess the FFA content of your fuel. kk Pieter Koole wrote: Some time ago I wrote about my mistake, to not boil off the water out of wvo, so I finished up with a lump of soap, glop or whatever we can call it. Alltogether it was 1000 liters. Now I decided to try to break the soap with phosphoric acit (75%) and let it sit for several weeks. The soap was cracked and I was lucky to siphon from the top just over 700 liters of BD. I have been driving on it, without any problems. Maybe someone out there can do something with this information. I have been thinking that I might be driving on FFA's at the moment in stead of BD, but it works. Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ -- Kenneth Kron President Bay Area Biofuel http://www.bayareabiofuel.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: 415-867-8067 What you can do, or dream you can do, begin it! Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faust. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] A nice experience
I don't know much about viscosity. How can I measure it ? What should be the viscosity of BD ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 1:05 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] A nice experience on 5/7/05 9:00 AM, Pedro Ordonez at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is a question I've had for a while now. If the purpose of making Biodiesel is to lower the viscosity of the oil, what would happen if we used just free fatty acids? Why won't that work? Have you checked the viscosity of FFA (take oleic acid as an example)? The stuff I've made felt like about 28 centistokes :-) Thinner than oil to be sure, but not thin enough. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Questions about ethanol
Hi all, I would like to give it another try to make ethanol from sawdust or other cellulose materials. In the past I have tried Sawdust ethanol production which I read somewhere I think on JTF, but didn't succeed. Well, IF I succeed this time, how can I now the % of ethanol and water ? I have zeolite, so I should be able to dry the ethanol. Can I measure the gravity to be sure enough I have 100% ethanol ? Would zeolite also adsorbe the alcohol ? If yes, what to do ? Drying the zeolite would cause loss of ethanol.or ?? Any advice on making ethanol from sawdust or newspapers would be very welcome. Another - maybe stupid - question : Sometimes I read snip in the messages. What does that mean ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Question about BD
Hello all, Maybe a silly question, but I cannot figure out how it works really. As far as I understand, veg.oil exists out of a glycerol + 3 fatty acids, like a head with 3 legs. During the BD proces, we break off the legs, using NaOH, and connect a methanol molecule on each leg. When we break off the legs, I would think we have free legs, so free fatty acids. What mistakes do I make when I think this is how it works ? So, if this is how it works (which is prob. not the case), why do we worry about free fatty acids ? I would say that we only would need less lye, because the legs are already lose. Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] A nice experience
Some time ago I wrote about my mistake, to not boil off the water out of wvo, so I finished up with a lump of soap, glop or whatever we can call it. Alltogether it was 1000 liters. Now I decided to try to break the soap with phosphoric acit (75%) and let it sit for several weeks. The soap was cracked and I was lucky to siphon from the top just over 700 liters of BD. I have been driving on it, without any problems. Maybe someone out there can do something with this information. I have been thinking that I might be driving on FFA's at the moment in stead of BD, but it works. Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] pore size of a paper coffee filter
Yes, they have the good filtration properties for BD, but the manufacturer does not guarantee anything. Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole : [Biofuel] pore size of a paper coffee filter Hi Everyone, I was wondering if any list member has an idea of the pore size of a paper coffee filter. I use these to filter out larger particles in my BD before going to final filtration. As always any suggestions, guidence, advice, or critisisms all welcome. Respectfully, Gregg Davidson __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] hydrogen fire place
Hi Greg, If I where you, I would be a little more carefull, telling people that try to find environmentle friendly ways of heating their house, that what they say is a joke. Making H2 costs energy, but as long as you can make H2 from a free source, like the sun is, what is the problem ? Even if the yield would only be 5%, you still catch these 5% in stead of letting it go. By the way, I didn't know the bridge in San Francisco was yours. Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands - Original Message - From: Greg Harbican [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 4:46 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] hydrogen fire place And how much more energy is going to be wasted, generating all the necessary H2? What a joke. If anyone want to buy the fireplace, I want to know, I have a bridge to sell them, in San Francisco CA. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Alt.EnergyNetwork [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 03:02 Subject: [Biofuel] hydrogen fire place Hi all, This is interesting - a hydrogen fireplace. Uses standard electrolysis of water. You still have to use electricity for it to work so it is definately not free heat but it doesn't need any venting so it can be easily installed. Company states output at around 31,000 btu's. It is a pretty simple idea so I expect it won't be long before quite a few clones will be available. Certainly doesn't help solve the energy crisis though it will burn clean and has the option of adding the oxygen to the room air. The world's first hydrogen-burning fireplace launches next generation of hearth products http://www.heatnglo.com/news/pressrelease.asp?id=33 Get your daily alternative energy news http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid news resources forums http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] To Jan Lieuwe Bolding
Hoi Jan, Can you tell me where you bought the stuff in Ittervoort to get the BD winterresistant to 15¡ C below zero ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Struiken 3 5993 NA Maasbree 077 - 465 1533 06 - 1339 1428 [EMAIL PROTECTED] The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: Jan Lieuwe Bolding [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Sunflower Oil At the moment I use used frying oil, but the main problem is that this already starts to solidify at about 15 ¡C. I have had a can of Sunflower Oil standing outside during the winter and It staid liquid even at temperatures at -15 ¡C. I also hope to produce a BD that I can also use during winter time. With kind regards, Jan Lieuwe Bolding The Netherlands - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 10:07 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Sunflower Oil On Apr 8, 2005, at 10:47 AM, Jan Lieuwe Bolding wrote: Has anyone experience with Straight Sunflower Oil to produce BioDiesel? I bought my oilseed ram press from Tanzania largely for sunflower and safflower (tho it does a fine job on flax and yellow mustard as well). They all make fine biodiesel. Did you have some specific concerns? Really almost any seed oil will make excellent fuel. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] wind powered water pumps
Hello Kim. I live in the Netherlands and as you perhaps know, our country is below sealevel. In the past we won land from the North Sea. At ECN in Petten (Energie Centrum Nederland) they can surely provide you with information, or they at least know where you can get it. Succes. Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands - Original Message - From: Kim Garth Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 5:17 PM Subject: [Biofuel] wind powered water pumps Greetings, I have been through all my reference books, etc. and I can not find any information on wind powered water pumps. Does any one have the directions for building one? What are they capable of and other such information will be appreciated. Bright Blessings, Kim ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] wind powered water pumps
Sorry, I forgot : You can find ECN on the internet. Probably it is www.ECN.nl Pieter Koole - Original Message - From: Kim Garth Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 5:17 PM Subject: [Biofuel] wind powered water pumps Greetings, I have been through all my reference books, etc. and I can not find any information on wind powered water pumps. Does any one have the directions for building one? What are they capable of and other such information will be appreciated. Bright Blessings, Kim ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] freezer test
Thank you for doing this test. I just wanted to do the same sort of test. By the way, does anybody know why the additives which are used for petro diesel are no good for use in BD ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands : Brent S [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2005 4:22 PM Subject: [Biofuel] freezer test I just did a test with some winter diesel and bio diesel blends. I did a 50%, 33%, and a 20% blend. At -20c the 50% got thick but didn't solidify or sepparate, and the other two were ok. Are these results consistant with what is expected from a good home brew fuel? Brent Saskatchewan Canada 91 GMC 6.2 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] freezer test
What do you mean with Howes ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands - Original Message - From: John Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 7:08 PM Subject: [Biofuel] freezer test I just did a test with some winter diesel and bio diesel blends. I did a 50%, 33%, and a 20% blend. At -20c the 50% got thick but didn't solidify or sepparate, and the other two were ok. (reply) Try adding a little of Howes diesel tret it works great with WVO but haven't tried adding Howes to Bio. Yours truly John Wilson Goldens *** Wilsonia Farm Kennel Preserve Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph-Fax (902)665-2386) Web: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/new.htm Pups: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/pup.htm Politics: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/elect.htm http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/c68.htm In Nova Scotia smoking permitted in designated areas only until 9:00 PM . After 9:00 it is okey to kill everyone. ^^^ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Could this be an idea ?
Hi all. Some days ago I wrote about a failure batch (water and / or soap in it). I have been reading about making soap and found that when soap is made, sometimes they boil the fresh soap with a saturated NaCl solution, which separates the soap from the rest (what rest ? I don't know). I tried to boil a sample of BD with a solution as said and so far the BD looks to become some clearer. Does anyone know if this salt would solube (or solve ? How does one say that ?) in the BD ? I can imagion that this would not be very pleasant for the fuelsystem of the engine. By the way, I have tried it with different amounts of water with salt, varying from just salt and no water, to the same amount of water as BD, with the maximum amount of salt solved in it. If wanted, I'll keep you informed. Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Question
Thank you. Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole - Original Message - From: Paddy O'Reilly [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 6:56 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Question Pieter, The word you are looking for could be Angstrom which is one tenth of a nanometer. It is used mainly in chemistry and sometimes in electronics. Paddy. Pieter Koole wrote: Hello dear all, Can anyone tell me how to find out what is glycerin, soap or solid BD ? Recently I made a few batches of BD from a very poor quality WVO.( about one I already wrote; it was with water in it, which was of course my mistake ). At the moment it is winter in Holland and the temp is around zero ¡ C. The BD turns to a mixture of solid and liquid and I don't know what is what. When I filter it and put the liquid part in the tank, it is ok, but the solid part is about half of the whole lot. I don't realy trust this part enough to put in my tank in the summer, because it might be glyc or even soap or a mixture of the both (even mixed with solid BD ). Any help or advice would be very welcome. Something about the mistake I made : I made BD in a tank where there was some water in. The BD did not get clear, but like coffee with milk. I washed a one liter sample about 20 times now, and it is getting coffee with even more milk. The water at the bottom is clear now, but I am getting a little less BD after every time I washed it. Do you think I should turn the whole lot into soap, or is there any other solution thinkable ( I can imagion something with zeolite, but still I have not found any place where I can buy this stuff ( as far as I know I would need 3 )). By the way, is an old fashioned something (what is the word ?). These days it is written as 1.10 » meter, where a is -10 in this case. Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ The information contained in this e-mail and in any attachments is confidential and is designated solely for the attention of the intended recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, copy, distribute or retain this e-mail or any part thereof. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete all copies of this e-mail from your computer system(s). Please direct any additional queries to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank You. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Question
Hello dear all, Can anyone tell me how to find out what is glycerin, soap or solid BD ? Recently I made a few batches of BD from a very poor quality WVO.( about one I already wrote; it was with water in it, which was of course my mistake ). At the moment it is winter in Holland and the temp is around zero ¡ C. The BD turns to a mixture of solid and liquid and I don't know what is what. When I filter it and put the liquid part in the tank, it is ok, but the solid part is about half of the whole lot. I don't realy trust this part enough to put in my tank in the summer, because it might be glyc or even soap or a mixture of the both (even mixed with solid BD ). Any help or advice would be very welcome. Something about the mistake I made : I made BD in a tank where there was some water in. The BD did not get clear, but like coffee with milk. I washed a one liter sample about 20 times now, and it is getting coffee with even more milk. The water at the bottom is clear now, but I am getting a little less BD after every time I washed it. Do you think I should turn the whole lot into soap, or is there any other solution thinkable ( I can imagion something with zeolite, but still I have not found any place where I can buy this stuff ( as far as I know I would need 3 )). By the way, is an old fashioned something (what is the word ?). These days it is written as 1.10 » meter, where a is -10 in this case. Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] WVO in central heating burners
Thank you. Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole - Original Message - From: Simon Fowler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 11:26 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] WVO in central heating burners Your draaibank is nearly the same in German. Near enough to understand anyway. Just for the record, we call it a Drehbank, or lathe in English. Simon Message: 4 Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 15:28:39 +0100 From: Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] WVO in central heating burners To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Yes, I did the same. Use stainless steel and your problems will be gone forever. You can maybe make them by yourself on what we call a draaibank ( I really don't know the English or German word). Stainless steel lasts forever. Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole - Original Message - From: Andreas W Ohnsorge [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 12:38 PM Subject: [Biofuel] WVO in central heating burners Currently I am running my central heating on WVO in a modified Mannesman (blue) burner. Modified because the material used in the nozzle, the filter and in the pre-heater (sintered bronze, brass) oxidizes over time and cloggs the nozzle. Because of these problems I have been speaking to several experts from the nozzle / pump / burner producers and they told me that I should get rid of all devices that contain copper in any form (means: housings of filters, valves, pipes,...) which I am currently doing. In addition their comment was that in some of their long term experiments even iron seemed to corrode under the influence of the organic acids of vegetable oil. Does anyone out there has any knowledge where to get the proper equipment that is suitable for such an operation (means heat resitant up to 120 - 150 degrees Celsius, resistant against organic acids, works with pressures of about 20 - 30 bar - and: is not too expensive)? I would really appreciate a discussion about experiences in this area... Regards Andreas P.S: I am living in Germany Abraham-Lincoln-Park 1 65189 Wiesbaden Germany Phone: +49.611.142.22608 Fax: +49.611.142.980028 Mobile: +49 172 - 8 43 30 32 e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Internet: ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] To Hans from Belgium
Hoi Hans, Hier zijn mijn gegevens. Ik ben momenteel met wat grotere plannen bezig. Misschien kan ik je daarover bellen ? Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Struiken 3 5993 NA Maasbree Netherlands 077 - 465 1533 06 - 1339 1428 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Soap aerated concrete
What is Perlite ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands - Original Message - From: Martin K [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 11:46 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Soap aerated concrete Keith Addison wrote: Hi Martin Hi Keith et al, I used Perlite mixed with refractory cement in my aluminum casting furnace. The walls saw temperatures surpassing 2000F, it was working well. The mixture was 50/50, and the perlite is very light-weight, reducing the overall mass of the structure. -- Martin K Perlite gives very similar results to rice husk ash. Michael Allen and I discussed Perlite in this context when I made that page on rice husk ash. You used the same ratio of cement as I do with RHA, after trying it 20 different ways in tests. Regards Keith I wouldn't mind using RHA for such a thing, but I don't think I'm within 1000 miles of a rice field. -- Martin K http://wwia.org/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Please, who can give me advise
Hello, As usual, some days ago I made 1000 liters of BD. I always boil off the water, and so I did this time. After that, I pumped it in a big tank and made BD as I always do. This time, however, there has probably been some water in the tank. I must admit that I didn't check. Now the BD is a bit milky, well, not quit as white as milk, but like coffee with some milk in it and not clear at all. No way you can look through it. I tried to boil off the water ( just a sample of one liter BD ), but the whole sample turned to gel. Does anyone have a good solution for this ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] WVO in central heating burners
Yes, I did the same. Use stainless steel and your problems will be gone forever. You can maybe make them by yourself on what we call a draaibank ( I really don't know the English or German word). Stainless steel lasts forever. Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole - Original Message - From: Andreas W Ohnsorge [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 12:38 PM Subject: [Biofuel] WVO in central heating burners Currently I am running my central heating on WVO in a modified Mannesman (blue) burner. Modified because the material used in the nozzle, the filter and in the pre-heater (sintered bronze, brass) oxidizes over time and cloggs the nozzle. Because of these problems I have been speaking to several experts from the nozzle / pump / burner producers and they told me that I should get rid of all devices that contain copper in any form (means: housings of filters, valves, pipes,...) which I am currently doing. In addition their comment was that in some of their long term experiments even iron seemed to corrode under the influence of the organic acids of vegetable oil. Does anyone out there has any knowledge where to get the proper equipment that is suitable for such an operation (means heat resitant up to 120 - 150 degrees Celsius, resistant against organic acids, works with pressures of about 20 - 30 bar - and: is not too expensive)? I would really appreciate a discussion about experiences in this area... Regards Andreas P.S: I am living in Germany Abraham-Lincoln-Park 1 65189 Wiesbaden Germany Phone: +49.611.142.22608 Fax: +49.611.142.980028 Mobile: +49 172 - 8 43 30 32 e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Internet: Experience Results. Experience CSC. -- -- This is a PRIVATE message. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete without copying and kindly advise us by e-mail of the mistake in delivery. NOTE: Regardless of content, this e-mail shall not operate to bind CSC to any order or other contract unless pursuant to explicit written agreement or government initiative expressly permitting the use of e-mail for such purpose. -- -- Keith Addison keith @journeytoforever.org Sent by: biofuel-bounces 17.02.2005 21:34 Please respond to biofuel To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: [Biofuel] Transesterification versus solvent/filtering methods Hello Chris Been having a look over www.bio-power.co.uk. The process they are using is based on adding solvents and filtering settling the oils into a product suitable for road fuel. The process seems to produce little waste and uses no dangerous chemicals. What are your views on this method as oppose to transesterification? This method does at first glance have its appeals but I am wondering about possible disadvantages. Hm, yes. John Nicholson's operation. This is what it says about it at our website: ... A variation on this theme is adding a solvent to the veg oil to lower the viscosity -- usually 3% white spirit (a.k.a. mineral turpentine, Stoddard solvent, turpentine substitute). This raised a lot of interest after it was publicized on a British TV program -- just add a spoonful. It also raised a lot of scepticism: 'experimental' at best was the view of experienced SVO'ers, and steer well clear unless you have a 5-cyl IDI Mercedes (in which case you don't even need the white spirit). We agree. Work on blends of SVO with other solvents, such as butanol and ethanol, is still experimental. By all means go ahead and experiment, but there are no guarantees. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#1mixing The experienced SVO'ers were Biofuel list members, and some of them were much ruder than that about it. I haven't followed it closely (not very interested), but we do get a lot of input and feedbck and I think if there'd been some revolutionary development I'd probably have heard of it. However, have a look at Darren's site, which will have a more thorough and up-to-date treatment of it: Vegetable Oil as a Fuel by Darren Hill -- book-length online report, mainly UK-based: The Diesel Engine, Theory of Vegetable Oil Use as a Fuel, Engine suitability, Heating the Oil, Biodiesel, Micro Emulsions and Blends, Vegetable Oil Engine Design, Vegetable Oil Furnaces and Heaters, Oil Types and Filtering, Taxation, Implications of Vegetable Oil Fuel Use, Sources. Darren welcomes contributions from users. http://www.vegburner.co.uk/report.html Best wishes Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http
Re: [Biofuel] Transesterification versus solvent/filtering methods
Hi all, I noticed on the page www.bio-power.co.uk that all the bleu, underlinded words make the impression it is a very commercial institute. All sorts of words like join us, how to become a member etc. but I didn't read anything about the process from which we can learn. Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Netherlands - Original Message - From: Chris Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 8:02 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Transesterification versus solvent/filtering methods Been having a look over www.bio-power.co.uk. The process they are using is based on adding solvents and filtering settling the oils into a product suitable for road fuel. The process seems to produce little waste and uses no dangerous chemicals. What are your views on this method as oppose to transesterification? This method does at first glance have its appeals but I am wondering about possible disadvantages. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Soap
Hi all, The more I read the messages about soap making, the more I realize that I don't understand the principle of soap making. Can anybody tell me (or give a link) what exactly is saponification ? Do only the FFA's saponify, or the total oil ? If this saponification is well known, why isn't it possible to find out how much lye is needed in an unknown oil (mixture) like WVO ? If somebody ever found out how much lye one needs to saponify (is that the right word ?) for example olive oil, how did he or she do that ? Can't we replicate that method with a mixture of used oils ? Mike wrote that coconut oil could dry out the skin if used to much. Why does it do that ? What happens ? Why doesn't olive oil do that ? Somewhere I also read, that glycerin moisturizes the skin, but if one would use to much in soap, it would work the other way round and dry out the skin. Why is that ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands - Original Message - From: Anti-Fossil [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 3:52 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making I have been making my own soap for about 14 years now. The only real secret that I have found in regards to fantastic foaming action of your soaps is the inclusion of coconut oil (c.o.) in your recipe. I am aware that a few of the more popular websites, and even books written on the subject, warn against using too high a percentage of c.o. because of its drying effects on the skin. However, I keep the percentage of c.o. in my soap between 20% and 40%, and haven't had any problems with excessively dry skin. Common sense must also come in to play of course. If you start with dry skin, you would definitely want to stay on lower end of those percentages with c.o., and increase the hydrating oils like olive, and settle for less foaming soap. AntiFossil Mike Krafka USA - Original Message - From: Phillip Wolfe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making Dear Legal Eagle, There is an industrial and commercial method of using refined glycerin for the manufacturing of natural soaps and detergents (and the harsher soaps too). As JFT advocates, there is a personal quest too - making your own stuff. In the industrial and commercial world there is a worldwide glut of glcyerin! compared to a couple years ago. I've been following this recently. But on the personal level, me thinks the idea of making homegrown soaps is pretty neat. It can be Family get together like making ice cream! Take care and good luck! --- Legal Eagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What to do with the copious amounts of glycerine by product ? We can follow through with the seperation of the components an get a close to pure glycerine, providing we have a market for it, or we can use it to make soap. JtF has a few good articles on that too. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html I am in the process of experiementing with a couple recipes that, I hope, will give a fairly decent usable product. I have used some as a body soap and it works great, however very little foamong action and that is a problem in most circles, so I am trying three diffenrent approaches. 1) 100ml water with 10gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product 2) 150ml water with 15gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product 30 200ml water with 20gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product Firstly the methanol must be removed/recovered by raising the temps above 65C (148.5F) and then the NaOH disolved into a little more than warm water. Once the glycerine has cooled a bit, to about 43C (110F) then mix in the water/NaOH while stirring for about a minute or two. Pour into a mold and let settle. How long will be subject of another post when I have it figured out :-) The first one has had two weeks to settle out anything that was going to do that and it did. Some gelatenous substance caked a portion of the hardened glycerine and had to be scrapped off, but the result was still solid bars. The second and third recipes are yet to be finished however they already show more potential, primarily the third which began solidifying almost immediately and shows good promise. I shall keep you posted as to the success/failure of this as we go along. No sense throwing away a perfectly good product if it can be used eh? I am determined that it will. Luc ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making
Hi, Thanks for writing some about making soap from the glycerin by-product. You write about 10 grams (or more) of NaOH per liter of glyc. How or what do you count the already used amount of NaOH during the BD proces, which we find back in the by-product ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands. - Original Message - From: Legal Eagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 7:08 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making What to do with the copious amounts of glycerine by product ? We can follow through with the seperation of the components an get a close to pure glycerine, providing we have a market for it, or we can use it to make soap. JtF has a few good articles on that too. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html I am in the process of experiementing with a couple recipes that, I hope, will give a fairly decent usable product. I have used some as a body soap and it works great, however very little foamong action and that is a problem in most circles, so I am trying three diffenrent approaches. 1) 100ml water with 10gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product 2) 150ml water with 15gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product 30 200ml water with 20gr NaOH per liter of glycerine by product Firstly the methanol must be removed/recovered by raising the temps above 65C (148.5F) and then the NaOH disolved into a little more than warm water. Once the glycerine has cooled a bit, to about 43C (110F) then mix in the water/NaOH while stirring for about a minute or two. Pour into a mold and let settle. How long will be subject of another post when I have it figured out :-) The first one has had two weeks to settle out anything that was going to do that and it did. Some gelatenous substance caked a portion of the hardened glycerine and had to be scrapped off, but the result was still solid bars. The second and third recipes are yet to be finished however they already show more potential, primarily the third which began solidifying almost immediately and shows good promise. I shall keep you posted as to the success/failure of this as we go along. No sense throwing away a perfectly good product if it can be used eh? I am determined that it will. Luc ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel additives
Thank you for sending the link. On my system I did find it and also another one. First I probably could not find it, because it is not called Wintron CX30, but Wintron XC30. I have found two different companies that sell it. Both in England. One sells it for 40 and one sells it for 19 pounds per liter. Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole - Original Message - From: Legal Eagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 4:32 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel additives G'day Pieter; http://www.biofuelsystems.com/uk2shop-2.htm However when I just tried thelink it was down. Hope they are still tehre. Luc - Original Message - From: Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel additives Hello, Can you tell me where I could buy this Wintron CX-30 out here in Holland ? Thanks in advance. Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands. Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel additives
Hello, Can you tell me where I could buy this Wintron CX-30 out here in Holland ? Thanks in advance. Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands. - Original Message - From: Legal Eagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 11:38 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel additives G'day Jan; From my understanding, Lubrizol works very well for the purpose it is intended for and that is B20 blend. It works primarily on the dino end, not the BD end. I am a bit scetchy about all the details and it could be a bit higher % on the BD side although I am certain that it is of littole value on B100.A consideration to keep in mind. Wintron CX-30 on the other hand was formulated especially FOR biodiesel and is reputed to do just fine on B100 down to -10C and the answer I got when I sent them an emai lwas that they were working on a formula that could in effect be winter friendly on B100 down to -20/-25C. (hopes and anticipation I am sure) Luc Luc - Original Message - From: Jan Lieuwe Bolding [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel additives Try to find a Lubrizol dealer or contact biofuelsystems in Britain. JLB - Original Message - From: Nuno Alegria - MT Energia [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 6:46 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Biodiesel additives Hi Does anyone knows any additives for use with biodiesel to low CFPP in winter? Where can we buy it in Europe? Thanks, -- Nuno Alegria ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] New bio dieseler
Where do you live ? Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel in belgium; www.biofuel.be
Hi Sam, You can write an e-mail to me to deliver in Holland ( or talk about it anyway ). Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: Sam Critchley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 6:10 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel in belgium; www.biofuel.be Hi, You don't happen to deliver biodiesel (smaller quantities - say 300L) in the Netherlands do you? Or know someone who does? Does anyone know of something like a European Association of Biofuels Producers? Thanks, Sam On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 10:44:47 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear all Belgium doesn't make it easy for Biodiesel, Even though we ratified the European wish to introduce 5,75 % biofuel in all transport fuel by 2010, Belgium regulation does not help biodiesel companies as they do in Germany, France and other European countries. Belgium is still not clear how they are going to take the fiscal tax out of Biofuel. This represents in Belgium more that 55% tax on fuel. However one company believe in Biodiesel in Belgium Biofuel.be ; www.biofuel.be On one hand they deal with the Farmers and the rapeseed stock exchange to manage having a rapeseed production sufficient, stable in order to have they own Belgian Biodiesel. On the other hand they are dealing with the Petrol Companies, Public and private transportation companies to make sure Biodiesel gets integrated in they own production or in they fleet. Soon Biofuel.be will soon create his fist Belgian biodiesel Pilot Plant Regards ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ -- Sam Critchley [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** A2B - the new location-based search engine. See http://www.a2b.cc for details. Great for GPSers! *** ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] winterizing
Thanks Keith, I didn't seem to read the artikle properly. And next times I won't send the below message with my mail. Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 7:55 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] winterizing Hi all, Trying to keep driving on BD this winter, I followed up the advise to heat up the BD ( I did it to 55¡ C ) and cool it down to below zero ( -3¡ C ). After that, I would siphon off the BD and let the solid on the bottom to use during the summer. I got some solid stuff, but it looks like cottonwool floating (or sinking) all through the fluid. How do I separate the solid from the liquid ? Or did I do something wrong ? We advise doing that to the WVO, not the biodiesel: To make WVO biodiesel for winter, heat the oil first, then cool it to near 0 deg C (32 deg F); the saturated fats will crystallise out and sink to the bottom. Use the clear oil off the top to make winter biodiesel, keep the stuff at the bottom for summer. But even this winterized biodiesel still won't go much below -5 deg C (23 deg F) without gelling. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_winter.html Biodiesel in winter: Journey to Forever Anyway, if you give it time the solid stuff should settle and then you can syphon liquid biodiesel from the top. Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands. By the way, Pieter: The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. This is known as Bogus Legalistic Boilerplate, not welcome on mailing lists - for one thing, it wastes lots of bandwidth when it goes to 3,000-odd list members every time you send a message. Please see: http://www.river.com/users/share/etiquette/#legalistic Mailing and Posting Etiquette Thankyou. Best wishes Keith snip ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] winterizing
Hi all, Trying to keep driving on BD this winter, I followed up the advise to heat up the BD ( I did it to 55¡ C ) and cool it down to below zero ( -3¡ C ). After that, I would siphon off the BD and let the solid on the bottom to use during the summer. I got some solid stuff, but it looks like cottonwool floating (or sinking) all through the fluid. How do I separate the solid from the liquid ? Or did I do something wrong ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands. The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: MH [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 10:52 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] winterizing Maybe this will help -- diethyl ether http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/DI/diethyl_ether.html Tim, The internet page gives an error : 404 Page not found. Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands - Original Message - Hello All, I don't know about diethyl ether being used as an aid for winterizing biodiesel, but the precautionary warning on handling is worth some review. The link below is an MSDS on it. http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/DI/diethyl_ether.ht ml Best wishes, Tim A precautionary note for those who are considering the use of diethyl ether as a winterizing agent: Be sure to add the following caveat: Remember that diethyl ether is highly flammable, and was used as an anesthetic in surgery. Be sure to chill it before measuring, and work in a well ventilated areageorge Best wishes, Peggy Do you have any reliable data to offer on this Peggy? How does it perform? Quite a lot of people are working on biodiesel winterisers, including some very competent people, from my discussions with some of them I'd say they've tried all the potential quick fixes. Best wishes Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] winterizing
Ok, Thank you. Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: Tim Ferguson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 3:14 PM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] winterizing Pieter, Sorry about the 404 error. My email editor was truncating and it snipped the ml off of the html. I have corrected the editor and provided the link again below. http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/DI/diethyl_ether.html Best wishes, Tim -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Pieter Koole Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 3:58 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] winterizing Tim, The internet page gives an error : 404 Page not found. Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: Tim Ferguson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 8:52 PM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] winterizing Hello All, I don't know about diethyl ether being used as an aid for winterizing biodiesel, but the precautionary warning on handling is worth some review. The link below is an MSDS on it. http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/DI/diethyl_ether.ht ml Best wishes, Tim -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 12:20 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] winterizing A precautionary note for those who are considering the use of diethyl ether as a winterizing agent: Be sure to add the following caveat: Remember that diethyl ether is highly flammable, and was used as an anesthetic in surgery. Be sure to chill it before measuring, and work in a well ventilated areageorge Do you have any reliable data to offer on this Peggy? How does it perform? Quite a lot of people are working on biodiesel winterisers, including some very competent people, from my discussions with some of them I'd say they've tried all the potential quick fixes. Best wishes Keith Best wishes, Peggy ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] winterizing
Tim, The internet page gives an error : 404 Page not found. Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: Tim Ferguson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 8:52 PM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] winterizing Hello All, I don't know about diethyl ether being used as an aid for winterizing biodiesel, but the precautionary warning on handling is worth some review. The link below is an MSDS on it. http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/DI/diethyl_ether.ht ml Best wishes, Tim -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 12:20 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] winterizing A precautionary note for those who are considering the use of diethyl ether as a winterizing agent: Be sure to add the following caveat: Remember that diethyl ether is highly flammable, and was used as an anesthetic in surgery. Be sure to chill it before measuring, and work in a well ventilated areageorge Do you have any reliable data to offer on this Peggy? How does it perform? Quite a lot of people are working on biodiesel winterisers, including some very competent people, from my discussions with some of them I'd say they've tried all the potential quick fixes. Best wishes Keith Best wishes, Peggy ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] centrifuging To Jan Lieuwe
Hoi Jan, Weet jij waar zo'n centrifuge te koop is en evt. prijsindicatie ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: Jan Lieuwe Bolding [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 9:50 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] centrifuging I know small centrifuges were used on farms over here in the Netherlands to make cheese and butter etc., maybe this is a entry. Jan Lieuwe Bolding - Original Message - From: Robert Del Bueno [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 11:22 PM Subject: [Biofuel] centrifuging Does anyone out there use a small continuous-flow centrifuge at all? I have been thinking for a while that one could probably do well for cleaning up waste oil. Spin out particulates and water with no filtration medium. I have seen oil/water separators, and other centrifugal devices, like those used to clean cutting/cooling fluids down to 1 micronand seems like a good way to clean SVO. The only drawback seems to be finding on that is small. Any thoughts? ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [biofuel] Chemichal Drying
I just ordered some zeolite, which can be used over and over to dry products. The water bonds to the zeolite because it is bipolair, while oil isn't. You can dry the zeolite and use it again. I'll keep you informed about my experiments. Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: Teoman Naskali [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 3:52 PM Subject: [biofuel] Chemichal Drying A good chemist friend told me that calcium oxide (Cao) could be used to dry WVO and methanol. I searched the archives for this but couldn't find a satisfactory answer. Can anyone help? I was thinking on filling a water filter with the stuff and adding it in line with the pump. Thanks, Teoman Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Fool proof 2 stage question
Hello all. During the last couple of months I have collected WVO and fat from different sources. Now I know the very good quality of the oil I have collected before, from one adress. It must have been almost SVO. Trying to make BD, I had to go back to the start with the single stage base method, and even with that method I cannot get it right. My car rides on it, but the BD is not clear at all and when I whas it say 4 times, the water turns out clear, but the BD gets worse and worse. I would think there is a lot of soap in it, but I do not know how to avoid this. Titration is done with a very good expensive pH meter and also with pH paper. Now I am trying the foolproof method, but that also doesn't work. I must admit I panic a little, because I don't know what to do now. Can anyone help ? I would like to know a bit more about the chemical background of the foolproof method. Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands. The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 8:57 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] 2 stage method questions Hello Teoman Sorry, just trying to avoid purchansing titration equipment. And get a good unerstanding of the processes before I start anything. If you read the previous messages I referred you to on this, you'd see those two statements are incompatible. Anyway, how much would titration equipment cost you? Or how little rather? You'll get it all back and more on what you save with your first tankful. False economy. I just got access to a highschool lab, if I bring my own chemicals and wash after I have used the equipment. Good, so start at the beginning then, single-stage base with virgin oil, small test batches: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start I also had bought some isopropanol (%99 pure) with the phosphoric acid. Can and should I titrate larger quatities of wvo, should I mix them?? If you're going to process the mixture, sure, why not? On the other hand, if something goes wrong and it's caused by oil from one source and not the others it won't be very easy to discover the problem. You'll have to go back to the beginning, titrate the oil from each bach separately, and do small test batches with each. Say I collect 10L each from three different sources, can I mix them and then titrate? Or do I have to titrate them separately? What about the denser white fat at the bottom? Depends what it is, tallow, hydrogenated, gunk. And whether you plan to use the fuel in summer or winter. See: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_winter.html Biodiesel in winter Can I collect say one ton of wvo and then titrate it? Yes, but you're unlikely to be doing that before you've made your first one-litre test batches with virgin oil. It's often said that making biodiesel doesn't lend itself well to theorising - just do it. Focus on doing it properly and learning as much as you can. Be thorough. The more effort and care you put into doing it well and developing good practices in the beginning the better off you'll be later, it really pays off. When you have some hands-on experience your forward planning and theorising will make a lot more sense. Best wishes Keith Addison Previous: Teoman Please see this recent message (two days ago) on why you should not be using the Foolproof method until you have a lot more experience. It says so after all, right at the top of the page. You don't believe it, or what? http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/37345/ In fact I'll post it all again, in the hopes that maybe at long long last somebody might take just a little notice and save themselves a whole bunch of trouble, and also us: Please see: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/37310/1/ Please read all six of the messages in the thread, including this: The two-stage processes are not the place to start making biodiesel. It says right at the top of the page: NOTE: The two-stage biodiesel processes are advanced methods, not for novices -- learn the basics thoroughly first. The single-stage base method is the place to start. Start here. Here being here - single stage, with new oil: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start There was some discussion about this at the list recently, please see these two previous posts
Re: [biofuel] From Sludge Oil to BD
To avoid accidents, using a drill to prepare your methoxide, you could cover your drill with a clamp (is that the right english word ? ) cloth or towel. Be carefull please. Vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: bioveging [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 2:12 AM Subject: [biofuel] From Sludge Oil to BD Well, I have completed my first batch other than a small test batch. It was done with horrible oil, titrated to 10gr/liter and the batch started life as a 20 liter batch and is now about a 15-16 liter batch, maybe a little less. Loads of by-product which I will turn into a degreasing soap, I hope. After washing and allowing to settle a pumped it through a couple of filters and it is now drying until the next time I need to fuel the Benz, at which point in it goes. The tank used is the one I have set up as a pre-heat tank with an immersion heater welded into the side of it and I did the methoxide mix in an out-of-doors concept (as I didn't have a cover for it) using a drill and paint stirrer and then after draining the glycerine I then washed it using the same stirrer and about 30% water to BD ratio. The next batch will be an 80 liter batch using my newly built reactor/wash tank unit and this one is 100% closed (except for the wash tank)to fumes escaping and therefore much safer than the open can concept. Had I not been able to do the methoxide mix literally outside then I would not have done it until able to securely close off the fume potential, nor do I foresee doing it that way again as a spark from the drill motor and, well, L. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet gecontroleerd op virussen. Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele lijst waar op wordt gecontroleerd. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Why is the pH of pure water 7.0 ??
A little bit difficult to explain in english, but I'll give it a try. pH means potential of H+ ions. In pure water you will find this balance : H2O + H2O OH- + H3O+ , where the balance is very much on the left side, but a little bit of protolyse is measured in pure water. At 25¡ C one will measure 1.0 x 10-7 [OH-] and of course also 1.0 x 10-7 [H3O+] When you take the negative logarithm of 10-7 (10 exponent -7) you find 7 and that is what we call pH = 7. So when for example [OH-] goes to 1.0 x 10-5, the other one [H3O+] has to go to 1.0 x 10-9 H3O+ is often called H+. In this case pH = 9. When H+ is 1.0 x 10-9 ( pH = 9 and pOH = 5 ) your solution is more basic. I hope you can understand my terrible english. Vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: Guag Meister [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 3:29 PM Subject: [biofuel] Why is the pH of pure water 7.0 ?? Hi all list members ; While we are on the subject of pH, can anyone give me a reasonable explanation as to why the pH of pure water is 7.0?? And I don't mean because it is in the middle of the range. Peter G. Thailand --- bioveging [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And THAT is one of great benefits of this list, the mountainous combined experience of it's members ! Thank you very much for your answer as it helps me a great deal knowing that I was not having a twilight zone moment with my PH meter. Yes, mine does have the little adjustment knobs and I have purchased two seperate solutions, one a PH-7 and the other a PH-10 and will be doing the calibration today so I can properly titrate my WVO for the next batch. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Guag Meister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi L ; pH meters go out of calibration VERY easily. The bulb which senses the pH is very delicate. It can be easily affected by strong acids or bases, particularly if these solutions are allowed to dry on the bulb. Long periods of exposure to air (in other words, drying out) is not a good thing either for the bulb. More expensive meters have calibration buttons to compensate for this. With these better meters, you buy some calibrated solutions and then regularly adjust the meter to read the correct value. If you are using a cheap meter which does not have calibration, here are some tips for longest life : 1) These cheap meters are not designed for strong acids and bases, so don't use in strong acids or bases. 2) Rinse the bulb well with neutral water after every reading. 3) When not in use, store in a manner such that the bulb is in a pH 7.0 buffer solution. This can be readily purchased from a lab supply company, and not expensive. 4) Check calibration with pH standard solutions. If your meter is off a little, you can mentally compensate, but this is not a true calibration. To do a true calibration you need two points to establish slope and offset. Hope this helps.. Peter G. Thailand --- bioveging [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My PH meter seems to be out of whack. Does this happen on any kind of regular basis? The new WVO I have is clearly better than the other lot I did and it is titrating even worse than the 10gr/liter batch and I do not think this is possible so I acquired some PH solution from the aquarium store (one a 7 and another one a 10) and haven't tested them yet, although I was wondering if anyone else has had trouble with PH meters going out of sink. I checked two seperate lots of WVO, both better than the sludge I did my 20 liter with, and they BOTH titrated higher than 10gr/liter so something is amiss I am sure. I plan on checking my PH meter ASAP and will post any results, but in the mean time any comments? L. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list
Re: [biofuel] Lumpy BD
Hello all, My last batches of BD were ok, but there whas more than 30% glyc at the end. Any idea what can cause that ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 8:01 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Lumpy BD Good day; I made a test batch of 20 liters the other day and when I checked it for quality using the method described at journeytoforever http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#quality it returned good fuel with clear and distinct seperation of unwashed fuel in less than 30 seconds. The problem is that when I poured out the BD into a bucket (as the glycerine had solidified at the bottom of the drum)it was lumpy, as if gelatine clumps were floating around in it. Is this due to the temp having dropped off during processing or perhaps incomplete reaction even though the quality test came back positive ? Any input ? Wash it and see. Let it settle first though, then decant it carefully into the wash vessel. Sorry if you've already gone ahead in the meantime. If so, please let us know the result. By the way, if you use KOH instead of NaOH the glycerine cocktail won't solidify, which you might find an advantage. Your processor's closed, no? - ie, unopenable. I'm sure you know this, but I'll say it anyway... Closed is usually taken to mean closed during processing so no fumes escape. Two types - those with lids and those with no lids, or sealed. We've no experience of sealed processors, but it seems to me it'd make solidified glyc more of a nuisance. Either way it'll be a nuisance if it gunks up the plumbing at the bottom of the tank. Best wishes Keith Thanks L. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet gecontroleerd op virussen. Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele lijst waar op wordt gecontroleerd. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] SVO in diesel engines
Why would you produce extra oxygen ? Wouldn't a simple turbo (compressor) give any result ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: Robert Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 10:03 AM Subject: [biofuel] SVO in diesel engines We are using a static medium sized diesel generating set fueled by waste vegetable oil, tallow and virgin rapeseed oil to produce electricity and provide space heating in a small commercial development. To obtain reliable combustion the engine is started on diesel oil and switched to SVO after reaching temperature. The combustion air is also modified by increasing the proportion of oxygen, which elevates the temperature in the chamber ensuring complete combustion of the bio-fuel. The system works reliably but the cost of generating oxygen is high. Does anyone have experience of running un-modified diesels on SVO and does any manufacturer warranty their engine for use with SVO? Many thanks Robert [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet gecontroleerd op virussen. Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele lijst waar op wordt gecontroleerd. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Electricity from WVO and Rapeseed
This is what I have been doing since the last 7 years. Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: rob crowley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 7:02 PM Subject: [biofuel] Electricity from WVO and Rapeseed I heard an interesting story on the BBC World Service Europe Today program broadcast on July 23. They interviewed a spokesperson from a British company with a patented technology to generate electrical power from rapeseed oil and WVO. The process involves virgin oil and waste vegetable oil. The rapeseed is pressed to extract the virgin oil for fuel. Then the soild remains from the pressing is mixed with waste vegetable oil and burned in a turbine. In this way, the entire rapeseed is used to generate electricity. According to the interview, the technology could produce electricity for one thousand homes for one year using crops planted in an area of 1 square mile (2.5 sq km). Based on the rapeseed crops planted in the UK now, there is enough to supply five percent of the UK power needs. The article did not appear on their web site, but perhaps it will be available later at: http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/europe/europetoday/index.shtml best regards, rob Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet gecontroleerd op virussen. Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele lijst waar op wordt gecontroleerd. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] centrifuges
So what is the price ? I live in Holland. Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: Philip S. Okey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 6:30 PM Subject: [biofuel] centrifuges hello all.. I noticed that there have been a couple of posts about people wanting used centrifuges, I have a extra Veronesi 650gpm, that is roughly set up to extract the glycerine phase from the triglycerides biodiesel during transesterfication so that the reaction will go to completion, but could easily be set up for separating the wash water from the finished biodiesl. which is what my other one is being set up for. we got a new alpha laval for the in process separations so we will not be needing this one, (changing the plant design again...) if any of you are trying to get a larger batch plant set up, and have about the same budget constraints as me, this one is available.and the price is negotiable.. Phil Okey Innovative Energy Solvents LLC Indianpolis, IN 46227 317-513-7002 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet gecontroleerd op virussen. Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele lijst waar op wordt gecontroleerd. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Zeolites
Thanks a lot. Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 4:02 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Zeolites Pieter Koole wrote: Hello all, Can anyone tell me where I can buy zeolites to dry alcohol ? Could I use zeolites to dry the WVO, and re-use it ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands Hello Pieter, Zeolites have been extensively researched on the Biofuel and Distillers lists for drying alcohol. Try these searches: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/index.php?keywords=alcohol+dryinglis t=BIOFUEL http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/index.php?keywords=ethanol+dryinglis t=BIOFUEL http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/index.php?keywords=zeolitelist=BIOFU EL http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/index.php?keywords=alcohol+dryinglis t=DISTILLERS http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/index.php?keywords=zeolitelist=DISTI LLERS -- -- Martin Klingensmith http://infoarchive.net/ http://nnytech.net/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet gecontroleerd op virussen. Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele lijst waar op wordt gecontroleerd. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Zeolites
Hello all, Can anyone tell me where I can buy zeolites to dry alcohol ? Could I use zeolites to dry the WVO, and re-use it ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: tallex2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 6:14 PM Subject: [biofuel] Zeolites Hi all, This material has useful applications for biofuel production as well. Zeolites in Solar Energy Applications http://www.eere.energy.gov/consumerinfo/factsheets/ba3.html Get Your Daily Alternative Energy News Fix http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ news-resources-sources http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet gecontroleerd op virussen. Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele lijst waar op wordt gecontroleerd. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale - Pieter
Sorry, I don't understand what price you mean ? How much would it be in ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 10:11 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale - Pieter Pieter Around the 4-5k mark. Mark ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - so many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet gecontroleerd op virussen. Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele lijst waar op wordt gecontroleerd. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Used motor oil
Hi all, Does anyone know if it is possible to make diesel fuel out of used motor oil ? I know this is not environmental friendly, but it is there anyway, so why not use it as a fuel ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 10:42 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale - Pieter Pieter Sorry for the delay. The centrifuge is a Westfalia marine oil centrifuge with 1-phase 230V and 415V 3-phase motors, stainless steel disc stack. What are you offering? ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - so many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet gecontroleerd op virussen. Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele lijst waar op wordt gecontroleerd. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale
No, it is not a BD factory. In fact we produce a kind of soap (not glycerin soap). Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: pieter van eeten [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Hi Pieter, Got in tough with Breustedt last friday they ave me the name of their local distributors near Eindhoven so now I can finally start my first batch! Thanks for the help. You factory is a BD factory? From: Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 21:13:15 +0200 The number is 06 2049 38 58 (Jan de Jong). Mention my name if you wish, and maybe you'll even get it a little cheaper. I have a small factory and Jan is my supplier. Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: pieter van eeten [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 10:13 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Eindhoven, do they sell wholesale at Breustedt or also smaller batches, seem more appropriate to start small with my first batch. Have you been making BD for a while? From: Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 09:50:28 +0200 Hi Pieter, Where do you live ? My supplier is Breustedt in Apeldoorn Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: pieter van eeten [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Hi Pieter, Seems I found a fellow Dutch guy around, something bound to happen of course. Pieter I recently became interested in Biodiesel and want to start producing it or at least give it my best shot. However, it seems I cannot get hold of decent lye (or NaOH) would you mind telling me where your supplier has hidden himself? Or where else I might be able to find good Lye? Grtz, Pieter van Eeten From: Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 18:19:10 +0200 Yes. What is the price ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands. The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case
Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale - Pieter
I have no idea You ask and I'll think Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 10:42 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale - Pieter Pieter Sorry for the delay. The centrifuge is a Westfalia marine oil centrifuge with 1-phase 230V and 415V 3-phase motors, stainless steel disc stack. What are you offering? ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - so many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet gecontroleerd op virussen. Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele lijst waar op wordt gecontroleerd. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale
Hi Pieter, Where do you live ? My supplier is Breustedt in Apeldoorn Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: pieter van eeten [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Hi Pieter, Seems I found a fellow Dutch guy around, something bound to happen of course. Pieter I recently became interested in Biodiesel and want to start producing it or at least give it my best shot. However, it seems I cannot get hold of decent lye (or NaOH) would you mind telling me where your supplier has hidden himself? Or where else I might be able to find good Lye? Grtz, Pieter van Eeten From: Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 18:19:10 +0200 Yes. What is the price ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands. The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 5:56 PM Subject: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Hi I have a Westfalia centrifugal separator for sale. Its rated to approx. 900L per hr, has a single phase and 3-phase motor. I imported it from the states for a bio-diesel pilot plant. Is any one interested? Mark 07963 651609 ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - so many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet gecontroleerd op virussen. Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele lijst waar op wordt gecontroleerd. _ Chatten met je online vrienden via MSN Messenger. http://messenger.msn.nl/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet gecontroleerd op virussen. Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele lijst waar op wordt gecontroleerd. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale
I make lots of it since several years. At Breustedt you can buy 25 kg bags or more. Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: pieter van eeten [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 10:13 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Eindhoven, do they sell wholesale at Breustedt or also smaller batches, seem more appropriate to start small with my first batch. Have you been making BD for a while? From: Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 09:50:28 +0200 Hi Pieter, Where do you live ? My supplier is Breustedt in Apeldoorn Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: pieter van eeten [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Hi Pieter, Seems I found a fellow Dutch guy around, something bound to happen of course. Pieter I recently became interested in Biodiesel and want to start producing it or at least give it my best shot. However, it seems I cannot get hold of decent lye (or NaOH) would you mind telling me where your supplier has hidden himself? Or where else I might be able to find good Lye? Grtz, Pieter van Eeten From: Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 18:19:10 +0200 Yes. What is the price ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands. The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 5:56 PM Subject: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Hi I have a Westfalia centrifugal separator for sale. Its rated to approx. 900L per hr, has a single phase and 3-phase motor. I imported it from the states for a bio-diesel pilot plant. Is any one interested? Mark 07963 651609 ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - so many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet gecontroleerd op virussen. Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele lijst waar op wordt gecontroleerd. _ Chatten met je online vrienden via MSN Messenger. http
Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale
The number is 06 2049 38 58 (Jan de Jong). Mention my name if you wish, and maybe you'll even get it a little cheaper. I have a small factory and Jan is my supplier. Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: pieter van eeten [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 10:13 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Eindhoven, do they sell wholesale at Breustedt or also smaller batches, seem more appropriate to start small with my first batch. Have you been making BD for a while? From: Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 09:50:28 +0200 Hi Pieter, Where do you live ? My supplier is Breustedt in Apeldoorn Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: pieter van eeten [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Hi Pieter, Seems I found a fellow Dutch guy around, something bound to happen of course. Pieter I recently became interested in Biodiesel and want to start producing it or at least give it my best shot. However, it seems I cannot get hold of decent lye (or NaOH) would you mind telling me where your supplier has hidden himself? Or where else I might be able to find good Lye? Grtz, Pieter van Eeten From: Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 18:19:10 +0200 Yes. What is the price ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands. The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 5:56 PM Subject: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Hi I have a Westfalia centrifugal separator for sale. Its rated to approx. 900L per hr, has a single phase and 3-phase motor. I imported it from the states for a bio-diesel pilot plant. Is any one interested? Mark 07963 651609 ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - so many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet gecontroleerd op virussen. Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele lijst waar op wordt gecontroleerd
Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale
Yes. What is the price ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands. The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 5:56 PM Subject: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Hi I have a Westfalia centrifugal separator for sale. Its rated to approx. 900L per hr, has a single phase and 3-phase motor. I imported it from the states for a bio-diesel pilot plant. Is any one interested? Mark 07963 651609 ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - so many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet gecontroleerd op virussen. Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele lijst waar op wordt gecontroleerd. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] question
Hi all, Today some chinees man from a restaurant brought me 1000 liters of WVO. It smells like hell, because it has been in a container for months. Can I still make BD from this stuff ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: nick_75au [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 2:11 PM Subject: [biofuel] Centrifugal seperator for biodiesel Hi, I posted to the 100% ethanol post about centrifugal processor not being able to seperate water from ethanol, yahoo started bouncing my messages for the second time in as many weeks so i never saw the replys, general opinion is a seperator wont work. Anyway I want to throw some thoughts out into the breeze about using the seperator to remove the glycyrine and FFA out of the reacted biodiesel. I worked in the navy where we used 4 small seperators, two for removing contaminants and water out of main engine sump oil and the other two removed water and solids from diesel fuel. As we know to seperate the glycerine and FFA out of the fuel once it is reacted it is left to settle overnight and the FFA and glycerine settles to the bottom by gravity. Well a centrifugal seperator ( if I can I will post a picture in the photos section showing a seperator cross section) achieves the same result by rotating a stack of conical disks at around 10,000 rpm. the heavy component is forced to the outside and is discharged to a port, the fuel passes up the center and is discharged to a second port. any dirt is traped on the disks and in the bowl. The advantage of this is that it happens in minutes not hours or days. The seperators I delt with were the smallest model and they could process 100 litres per minute. Another feature that is interesting is that for the centrifuges water could actualy be introduced into the oil or diesel to assist in seperating water and contaminant from the product, I bring this up because It may be a way to wash the biodiesel at the same time as removing the glycerine however I think this may not work as all the procceses on the JTF site wash after seperating, Have I missed someting regarding this?. So now I have given this wonderful info and you all rush out to find seperators then find they are too big, too costly and difficult to find unless you work in a shipyard, I did some looking around and I believe that the humble cream seperator might just do the trick, a perfect size for a home biodieseler, hand driven and works on exactly the same principal. Some experimentation will be required as to speed it is spun and it may require some modification I dont know until I or someone can post some results. I havent made any biodiesel yet and when I do I am definitly going to try this out, If any one is willing to give it a go now I would love to here about it and will be able to sort out any problems on-line. Best Regards Nick Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet gecontroleerd op virussen. Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele lijst waar op wordt gecontroleerd. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Algae farming for oil $
Hi Marc. I have 3000 square meters of land ( in american terms this is nothing, I know, but we live in Holland ). How much oil could the algea produce yearly. Not in theory, but practical. What would I need in terms of heating , ventilation etc ? I would be very very pleased with any useble information. ( Sorry about my English. I have never learned english at school. I chose French and German ). Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: Marc Orion Cardoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 5:21 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Algae farming for oil $ -- Dear pieter, we have perhaps the only ,and certainly, the most comprehensive manual on growing algae. $180.00 U.S.. this manual is for the serious person doing due dillegance into the feasability and technology of algaeculture.It covers growing rechniques for various lipid (oil) producing algae as well as growing Tilapia fish which are used to provide nutrients for the algae as well as a highly profitable value added product. see our website for data relating to the closed loop ecosystems in which we grow the algae and tilapia fish in a mutually symbiotic relationship. surprisnigly, the algae manual is our biggest selling manual despite the cost. for more on our manuals go to the product description page on our website just google for ecogenics or go to www dabney.com/ecogenics/ for more on our technologies. Marc - In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, Can anyone give me some more information about growing algae ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: Marc Orion Cardoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 12:55 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Algae farming for oil $ -- we have been growing various species for years under a wide variety of climatic conditions...now we are developing separation and processing technology we do not have cost figures as of yet that are definitive. Marc - In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, John Woolsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Okay here is a question: What would the price of the oil be for Algae farmed oil? Someone here said they had been doing this stuff for years. What is your price for various quantities? Is it cheaper than Soy oil etc? - bfn - JAW Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet gecontroleerd op virussen. Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele lijst waar op wordt gecontroleerd. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet gecontroleerd op virussen. Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele lijst waar op wordt gecontroleerd. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get
[biofuel] FFA / Glycerin separation
Hi all, Again I have had some troubles with my health, so I haven't been around for a while. But as we say in Holland Weeds aren't killed. I have done as written below and do not understand a thing of it. Who can help ? I took 800 liters of used oil, which is used for a day or two to bake fish in at 180¡ C. I titratet 4 ml so that brings me to 7.5 grams of NaOH per liter = 6 kg NaOH The NaOH was dissolved completely in 96 kg methanol ( 120 liters ). This was mixed using a strong pump with the oil during 1 hour, ( which I boiled first to 120¡ C to make sure there whas no trace of water in the oil. I filtered the hot oil and let it cool down to about 30¡ C). I think I have made BD now. I usually make BD with different amounts of NaOH, because I used to get the oil from somebody else. Anyway, separation occured and the s.g. of the BD is 0,860 which is not too bad, I would think. Now I took 525 grams of the bottom layer ( I did not perform the whashing process at all, so there cannot be any water ). Then I mixed this with 34 ml phosphoric acid (75%). After a short time separation occured : A light sherry / goldish toplayer , a bit darker than sunflower oil, which is, I guess 80% of the total lot. A complete black middle layer, which is maybe 5% of the lot A bottomlayer which has the color off coffee with milk, which is about 10% of the lot. This is not the result I expected. I realize I have asked this before and at that time I did not manage to seperate FFA and glycerin ( maybe I did, but not knowing what the glycerin or the FFA whas ). So, what did I produce and what can I do whith it ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:22 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Phenolphthalein OK, here's the thing. I can get it in all it's wonderful forms, but that doesn't help me as I don't know which one will work for titration, so that is where the wonderfully helpful people here will steer me right,please. It comes as: 1)Reagent powder 2).5% alcohol solution 3)1% alcohol solution The question is: which one? I want to measure it up to the PH meter as I think that that may be the weak link in my titration. Thoughts? Guidance? Ideas? Many thanks or TA! (as the Aussies/Brits say) Luc Previous message: - Original Message - From: biobenz The chem supply house I am dealing with offers the Phenolphthalein in a pre-mixed alcohol solution at 1%. Would this work as well or better than the do-it-yourself method ? Biobenz, If you are unable to get 95% ethanol or don't want to go to the trouble of making up the phenolphthalein solution yourself, the premixed solution would be a great idea. It would also be neutralalised in manufacture. Would indeed work just as well as or better. Regards Paul Gobert. 1% Phenolphthalein solution (1.0w/v%) Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet gecontroleerd op virussen. Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele lijst waar op wordt gecontroleerd. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: oil from algae...
I am interested as well. Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands. The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: wwschnabel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 4:42 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: oil from algae... I asked a while ago if anyone had any info on Oil from algae. What I would like to do is an experiment. Does anyone have any info on how exactly to extract the oil from algae? Could I do it in a home lab? Thanks, Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet gecontroleerd op virussen. Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele lijst waar op wordt gecontroleerd. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Pieter and the Foolproof method
- Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 6:07 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Pieter and the Foolproof method Hello Pieter Hi Keith, The heating was done with 2 liters in stead of 700 liters, so I could reach 70¡ C. Why boil it off ? Because I wanted to start over again and not end up using half a liter of methanol per liter of veg oil. If you decide to do the rest of it maybe use a bit less rather than boiling it off - most of the excess will end up in the glycerine cocktail anyway. The fact that I made a big amount at once, was a great big mistake. I made this mistake, because I read this methode as being a methode without any chance of failing. I agitated it as I always do, with a pump. The inlet of the pump at the bottom of the container and the outlet at the top. Concerning the time : I did it exactly as Aleks writes, but with 12 hours at least I mean settling time. Sorry, can I get this straight? So this is wrong, what you told me previously? For how long did you process each stage? At least 12 hours. You are right. I processed each stage for the time Aleks advises. The settling time took 12 hours at least. How long did it settle in between? At least 12 hours. Best Keith - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 9:35 PM Subject: Pieter and the Foolproof method - was Re: [biofuel] cold weather and biodiesel Hello Pieter I wonder what this had to do with cold weather and biodiesel? Never mind... Hi all, As some of you allready know, I have tried the foolproof methode without succes. The result was a coffee like murky stuff with methanol floating on top off this slurry. What I did to save the lot : I boiled off the methanol at 70¡ C. After that, I made new sodium methoxide ( I think 200 ml methanol and 4 grams of lye per liter of the residu ) and made BD as I am used to. The result was still not cristal clear, but now I heated the lot again and became a beautifull golden liquid. Spec. grafity 0.865 grams per liter. Now my question : During the last heating ( so not when cooling down ) a fair bit of clear gel appeared. It has the structure of melted chewing gum. A bit like silicone kit ( is that an english word ? ). The residu is still cristal clear with spec. graf 0.865. Does anyone know what that could be ? Groeten, Pieter Once again you puzzle me. Especially I'm puzzled that you boiled off the methanol you said was left on top - at 70 deg C, though previously you couldn't get the temp higher than 35 deg C for the second stage of the process. How did you manage it? And why boil if off at all, if you were going to add more methanol anyway to reprocess it? Anyway, previously you said: I have tried to do it exactly as Aleks Kac writes on the site. That still left me with a bunch of questions, and I did get some answers from you, but also more questions, and now more questions again. Aleks says this, right up near the top: Whenever you're trying a new method, it's always a good idea to make small test batches of a liter or less first to familiarize yourself with the process before moving on to bigger batches. We also say that, lots of times, at the Journey to Forever site and here. So do other people say that, and I must say it seems obvious. I asked you: How much oil did you use - was this a small test batch? I hope so. You told me: No, stupid enough it was 700 liters. :-( From your first message, you also said you couldn't get the second-stage heat higher than 35 deg C (95F), though it should be 55C (131F). So I also asked you: How did you heat it and how did you agitate it? You told me you'd used the central heating of your house, but the oil was in a 1000-liter container and did not get hotter than 35 deg C. But you didn't say how you agitated it. Aleks says agitate the first stage at 35 deg C for one hour, then agitate for a further hour without heating, settle, and second-stage processing is 1.5-2.5 hours. You told me you'd processed each stage for at least 12 hours, with at least 12 hours settling in between. I wonder how you translated those processing times into at least 12 hours each? You added: As I said, I did it exactly the way Aleks writes, but it seems chaotic. We tell people the two-stage methods are not for novices for good reason. Some people still take no notice though, and then we get messages like this: Hi I have 2 45gal drums. There joined together with hoses valves. I boiled down 400 ml of battery acid to a brown thick acid to 100ml. I have 60 Liters of cooking fat.I heated it and water went to bottom of container before I dipped out
Re: Pieter and the Foolproof method - was Re: [biofuel] cold weather and biodiesel
Hi Keith, The heating was done with 2 liters in stead of 700 liters, so I could reach 70¡ C. Why boil it off ? Because I wanted to start over again and not end up using half a liter of methanol per liter of veg oil. The fact that I made a big amount at once, was a great big mistake. I made this mistake, because I read this methode as being a methode without any chance of failing. I agitated it as I always do, with a pump. The inlet of the pump at the bottom of the container and the outlet at the top. Concerning the time : I did it exactly as Aleks writes, but with 12 hours at least I mean settling time. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 9:35 PM Subject: Pieter and the Foolproof method - was Re: [biofuel] cold weather and biodiesel Hello Pieter I wonder what this had to do with cold weather and biodiesel? Never mind... Hi all, As some of you allready know, I have tried the foolproof methode without succes. The result was a coffee like murky stuff with methanol floating on top off this slurry. What I did to save the lot : I boiled off the methanol at 70¡ C. After that, I made new sodium methoxide ( I think 200 ml methanol and 4 grams of lye per liter of the residu ) and made BD as I am used to. The result was still not cristal clear, but now I heated the lot again and became a beautifull golden liquid. Spec. grafity 0.865 grams per liter. Now my question : During the last heating ( so not when cooling down ) a fair bit of clear gel appeared. It has the structure of melted chewing gum. A bit like silicone kit ( is that an english word ? ). The residu is still cristal clear with spec. graf 0.865. Does anyone know what that could be ? Groeten, Pieter Once again you puzzle me. Especially I'm puzzled that you boiled off the methanol you said was left on top - at 70 deg C, though previously you couldn't get the temp higher than 35 deg C for the second stage of the process. How did you manage it? And why boil if off at all, if you were going to add more methanol anyway to reprocess it? Anyway, previously you said: I have tried to do it exactly as Aleks Kac writes on the site. That still left me with a bunch of questions, and I did get some answers from you, but also more questions, and now more questions again. Aleks says this, right up near the top: Whenever you're trying a new method, it's always a good idea to make small test batches of a liter or less first to familiarize yourself with the process before moving on to bigger batches. We also say that, lots of times, at the Journey to Forever site and here. So do other people say that, and I must say it seems obvious. I asked you: How much oil did you use - was this a small test batch? I hope so. You told me: No, stupid enough it was 700 liters. :-( From your first message, you also said you couldn't get the second-stage heat higher than 35 deg C (95F), though it should be 55C (131F). So I also asked you: How did you heat it and how did you agitate it? You told me you'd used the central heating of your house, but the oil was in a 1000-liter container and did not get hotter than 35 deg C. But you didn't say how you agitated it. Aleks says agitate the first stage at 35 deg C for one hour, then agitate for a further hour without heating, settle, and second-stage processing is 1.5-2.5 hours. You told me you'd processed each stage for at least 12 hours, with at least 12 hours settling in between. I wonder how you translated those processing times into at least 12 hours each? You added: As I said, I did it exactly the way Aleks writes, but it seems chaotic. We tell people the two-stage methods are not for novices for good reason. Some people still take no notice though, and then we get messages like this: Hi I have 2 45gal drums. There joined together with hoses valves. I boiled down 400 ml of battery acid to a brown thick acid to 100ml. I have 60 Liters of cooking fat.I heated it and water went to bottom of container before I dipped out 60 liters.I took it up to 35 C and but in 4.8 liters of menthol mixed with washer pump for 5-6 min then added 100 ml acid.I went inside for 3/4 of hr and when I came back out the fuse had blown. I ran out of time and it mixed for maybe 1/2 hr afterwords.(Had to go away..)My friend didn't look after it like he said..So what Im asking is what do I do..Im reheating it now but the menthol is getting away..will I carry on with next step or circulate it more...Thanks And then you get people who say it doesn't work. LOL! It didn't have a hope in hell of working. Another one wrote a really demanding letter (telling me to telephone him in Texas or something) complaining about it - he hadn't even tried it, nor ever made biodiesel of any kind, from what I could make out, but he said It won't work, quite angrily... Sheesh! Some other guy said he'd had an
Re: [biofuel] cold weather and biodiesel
Hi all, As some of you allready know, I have tried the foolproof methode without succes. The result was a coffee like murky stuff with methanol floating on top off this slurry. What I did to save the lot : I boiled off the methanol at 70¡ C. After that, I made new sodium methoxide ( I think 200 ml methanol and 4 grams of lye per liter of the residu ) and made BD as I am used to. The result was still not cristal clear, but now I heated the lot again and became a beautifull golden liquid. Spec. grafity 0.865 grams per liter. Now my question : During the last heating ( so not when cooling down ) a fair bit of clear gel appeared. It has the structure of melted chewing gum. A bit like silicone kit ( is that an english word ? ). The residu is still cristal clear with spec. graf 0.865. Does anyone know what that could be ? Groeten, Pieter - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] cold weather and biodiesel Hello Mark How did you handle the cold weather over the winter with your biodiesel? Do you use additives or mix with diesel? I've just made my first batch of biodiesel and found it has a cloud point of around 30 degrees F. It gets down to -20 degrees F in the winter in Upstate NY so I'm wondering how others handle the cold. Additives might handle it, if it's a really good additive specifically formulated for biodiesel, but probably you'll need more than that. See: Biodiesel in winter http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_winter.html Best Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet gecontroleerd op virussen. Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele lijst waar op wordt gecontroleerd. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] micro-organisms in oil
I don't know at all, but I can imagine that if you would recover the methanol just before you use the BD, it would keep the micro -organisms quiet for so long. Groeten, Pieter. - Original Message - From: Yves vd Hoeven [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 10:21 AM Subject: [biofuel] micro-organisms in oil When the temperature is warm enough micro-organisms can start to develop in mineral oil, especially in WVO I guess. Now that spring/summer is coming I wonder, is there a substance that can safely be added to the WVO to prevent this, or doesn't it matter. Yves. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet gecontroleerd op virussen. Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele lijst waar op wordt gecontroleerd. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Can I please get some help ?
Hi all. Yesterday and today I made my first batch of BD using the foolproof method. Neither in the acid stage, nor in the second stage any separation occured. The methanol is floating on the top and the whole lot looks like coffee with too much milk in it. At the bottom I find some salt, which is probably NaOH. The oil I used is a very good quality, almost SVO. What have I done wrong ? I couln't get the temperature higher than 35¡ C. I have tried to do it exactly as Aleks Kac writes on the site. Groeten, Pieter Netherlands. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] floating draw-off
x-charset ISO-8859-1I use a lump of wood and it works pretty well. Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: Alan Petrillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 8:39 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] floating draw-off [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have built several floating draw offs, and I'm not sure which is best. For the float, one can use polyethylene foam, not styrofoam!, or a sealed air container, such as a PVC pipe with capped ends. Use a good weight on the float to keep it immersed in the liquid. For the hose, I recommend one of those pre-coiled poly garden hoses, so it follows the fluctuating level without being pulled off to the side. I also use a guide rod down through the coil to keep things on the level. If you can figure a flexible joint that can stand a suction, perhaps you could post it here. I can't find one that is flexible enough. I haven't used any such thing for BD, but a floating pickup is often used for jet fuel in aviation fuel farms. The trick is to have the pickup tube extend a bit below the float. That way as the float changes aspect to the surface of the fuel the pickup doesn't suck air. The aviation setups usually have stops so that the pickup leaves the last 8 inches or so in the tank. I never had to worry about it, though, as my fuel farm never had any water in it. For the appropriate flexible joint, I suppose you could check with your local tank and lift supplier. AP Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
Re: [biofuel] A question about lignine
x-charset ISO-8859-1Great ! Thanks a lot. You say it is all organic material. Doesn't the sulfuric acid do any harm, or is that all used by breaking down the cellulose ? You asked : Why not ? Well, for the same reason as why we don't find any information about producing nuclear power or other poluting methods on your site. Aren't we more or less idealists ? Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 2:56 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] A question about lignine Thanks Ken, I hope I don't insult anybody, but as far as I remember I found the way to make ethanol out of sawdust on journeytoforever. Fuel From Sawdust http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html#sawdust If the process produces poison material, why would it be on this site ? Why not? Compost it, Pieter. It's all organic stuff, it'll break down harmlessly in a properly made hot compost pile. http://journeytoforever.org/compost.html Composting: Journey to Forever Best Keith Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 4:03 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] A question about lignine on 2/27/04 10:48 AM, Pieter Koole at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I am making ethanol on a very very small scale ( experimenting a bit ) from newspapers etc. What is the best thing to do with the black stuff ( lignine isn't it ? ). Is it poison ? Can I use it somehow? In general, any organic mixture that's BLACK is toxic, probly carcinogenic. Blackness is caused by multiple aromatic fused rings -- polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, of which graphite is the extreme version. Do a Google search on polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons. Is there a way to re-use the sulphuric acid (98%) I don't think so Does anyone know whether alcohol can be dried by electrolysis ? I've never heard of it -- doesn't mean it's not possible somehow, but I doubt it -K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
Re: [biofuel] A question about lignine
x-charset ISO-8859-1This is a very interesting process. Don't worry, I am not going to produce or sell ethanol, but just want to use my old newspapers and some waste wood for producing ethanol to run my lawnmower and outboard motor on. What carbonate slurry ( found on the site ) should I use and how should I use it ? Is that the way to dry the alcohol, and if it is, how dry can I get it ? How do both recover processes work ? ( for sulphuric acid and the carbonate ? ). Thanks a lot for the answers. Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: Fred Enga [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 6:39 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] A question about lignine Hello All. The lignin by product of the acid hydrolysis is not a poison. We produce ethanol from wood residue using the Gaian process of concentrated sulphuric acid hydrolysis. The Lignin is the carbon skeleton of the wood and has similar properties to Charcoal. In some processes a lignin sulphate compound is formed, but not in this process - that's more associated with the Kraft and sulphite paper industry. These versions of lignin find uses in the manufacture of resins, other forms of lignin are used as binders for road surfacing. In our process we find the best use to be as a fuel, in fact we power our complete process using the combustion of the lignin produced in the hydrolysis stage, with a significant energy production over our requirements that we can produce electricity with the surplus steam. Concerning the reuse of the sulphuric acid, we recover and reuse, after reconcentrating it. Unfortunately we use a simulated moving bed chromatography process which is not 'suitable' for home use. The older was is to sacrifice the acid by neutralising it with lime which give a gypsum by-product which has little to no further use. For those who want a little more info on ethanol production from wood residue, there is a fairly detailed process review on our website www.gaianbioenergy.com Hope this helps Regards Fred Enga -Original Message- From: Pieter Koole Sent: February 27, 2004 7:27 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] A question about lignine Thanks Ken, I hope I don't insult anybody, but as far as I remember I found the way to make ethanol out of sawdust on journeytoforever. If the process produces poison material, why would it be on this site ? Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 4:03 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] A question about lignine on 2/27/04 10:48 AM, Pieter Koole at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I am making ethanol on a very very small scale ( experimenting a bit ) from newspapers etc. What is the best thing to do with the black stuff ( lignine isn't it ? ). Is it poison ? Can I use it somehow? In general, any organic mixture that's BLACK is toxic, probly carcinogenic. Blackness is caused by multiple aromatic fused rings -- polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, of which graphite is the extreme version. Do a Google search on polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons. Is there a way to re-use the sulphuric acid (98%) I don't think so Does anyone know whether alcohol can be dried by electrolysis ? I've never heard of it -- doesn't mean it's not possible somehow, but I doubt it -K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey
[biofuel] A question about lignine
x-charset ISO-8859-1Hi all, I am making ethanol on a very very small scale ( experimenting a bit ) from newspapers etc. What is the best thing to do with the black stuff ( lignine isn't it ? ). Is it poison ? Can I use it somehow ? Is there a way to re-use the sulphuric acid (98%) I used in the proces ? I think I have asked the next question before : Does anyone know whether alcohol can be dried by electrolysis ? Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole Struiken 3 5993 NA Maasbree 077 - 465 1533 06 - 1339 1428 [EMAIL PROTECTED] The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 3:31 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Amount of Glycerol in SVO Hello Tomas, how goes? Still freezing or are there signs of spring yet? Last time you said it was nice - minus 3C! (That's not nice!) Hello All, Can some one say how much glycerol there is in SVO (rapeseed, sunflower, coco). Is the amount always constant 20 % or is it depending on the oil. It's about 7-8%. The amount of the by-product cocktail - glycerine + FFA (soap) + excess methanol + catalyst - varies according to the oil used and its condition and the process used and processing. More info here: How much glycerine? Why isn't it solid http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#howmuchglyc By the way, we were talking about additives: Thanks Keith, I will immediately look into Wintron XC30 this sounds promissing. Thanks again this news group is a gold mine of info for biodieselers. The weather is back to nice -3Á. Best regards Tomas Wintron solved it for us, we had no trouble at all. Our WVO biodiesel's okay to about -5 deg C or so and it was often colder than that here, but not much colder than about -10 deg C. We used a 0.5% concentration, and for colder temps we'd just have used more, up to about 1%. It's still freezing at night but I guess the worst of it's over. Wintron's a very good product. Really serious winter cold might need different solutions, but for most people this will be fine. They've been testing a new formulation which they say works even better, and that will be available for next winter. More info on Biodiesel in winter here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_winter.html Biodiesel in winter: Journey to Forever Best wishes Keith Tomas Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
Re: [biofuel] A question about lignine
x-charset ISO-8859-1Thanks Ken, I hope I don't insult anybody, but as far as I remember I found the way to make ethanol out of sawdust on journeytoforever. If the process produces poison material, why would it be on this site ? Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 4:03 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] A question about lignine on 2/27/04 10:48 AM, Pieter Koole at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I am making ethanol on a very very small scale ( experimenting a bit ) from newspapers etc. What is the best thing to do with the black stuff ( lignine isn't it ? ). Is it poison ? Can I use it somehow? In general, any organic mixture that's BLACK is toxic, probly carcinogenic. Blackness is caused by multiple aromatic fused rings -- polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, of which graphite is the extreme version. Do a Google search on polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons. Is there a way to re-use the sulphuric acid (98%) I don't think so Does anyone know whether alcohol can be dried by electrolysis ? I've never heard of it -- doesn't mean it's not possible somehow, but I doubt it -K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
Re: [biofuel] Is it really free???
It is free in a way, that you will feel free when you make your own fuel, not depending on oilprices and so on, but of course that is not what you mean. Well, it is not completely free, but very cheap indead. Over here, my costs are about 0,10 per liter biodiesel for the chemicals I need. Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: bearforu2 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 8:30 PM Subject: [biofuel] Is it really free??? People talk that it they can run there car for free on biofuel, but when you have to buy use toxic chemicals like lye etc, and spend hours to make just a small amount, is it really free? I am a supporter of biofuel, but i have not made 100% biodiesel.These are questions that people ask me and i would like to see what your answers are. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Quality?
x-charset ISO-8859-1Questions are never dumb. Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 5:53 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Quality? Hi again, Another dumb question. Is this heating a needed step and if it is how long should it be heated for? There's no need to heat the finished fuel to this high of a temp to dry it. Approximately 120*F (~46*C) is more than sufficient to get any microscopic water to settle out before putting the fuel in the tank. If it seperates like you say I am good to go before heating or after? Thanks again Rick M Brownstown, Mi The simplest home test for fuel acceptability is to put equal parts fuel and water in a closed container and agitate radically for a few seconds. If the fuel and water separate immediately with no emulsion other than a thin interface film you're good to go. Todd Swearingen [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Quality?
x-charset ISO-8859-1Why heat it ? Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: pinky 22in [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Quality? hi what you did is right your biodiesel will be of good quality.. butb4 using the biodiesel, heat it for 110 degree celsius and thn use it.-vidhya --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Hi all, I just made my second large batch of Biodiesel. (10 gallon) I have made 8 different blender batches, the first 3 I screwed up the amount of lye. (the scale was way off) The next 5 came out great, (I think) I have gotten great seperation on every good batch that I have made. 2 very distinct layers with the top layer being the same color top to bottom and the bottom layer much darker and on the bottom. I mix it for 1 hour then let it sit over night and draw off the good stuff from the top and put it in the washer. I wash it with 1/2 the amount of water for 6 to 7 hours and let it sit over night and repeat this 3 times. My last wash water is just about clear and the ph is about 6. Having told you this, is there anything to do to test the quality of my fuel. It looks good in the jug. I have one batch that has been done for a couple of weeks and it looks the same now as it did when I got done washing it. I am ready to put it in a fuel tank and run a gen set but just want to be sure I am not going to mess any thing up. Thanks Rick M Brownstown, Mi. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
Re: [biofuel] WVO wick
x-charset ISO-8859-1On which board ? How did he do it, and most important : Did it work at all ? Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: northlandwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 11:59 PM Subject: [biofuel] WVO wick Has anyone tried or had luck burning WVO with a wick? On another board I read that a guy built a burner based around a wick method. Thanks Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
[biofuel] A question about alcohol drying
x-charset ISO-8859-1Hi Aleks, Studiing the Fool Proof method - which was to be expected after our last mails - I read that mixing alcohol and H2SO4 is a way to dry alcohol. How dry can I get home made ethanol this way ? How should I do it ? Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 8:26 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Foolproof method Dag Pieter Maar... Hi all, Maybe a stupid question, and with all respect to Aleks, but I am making BD now for allmost two years, using the single base methode, without titration, just use 150 liter methanol and 4.5 kg NaOH per 1000 liter used vegatable oil. Let it sit for at least a week and very slowly drain(?) what is the right word ? it from the top through a fine filter. I have never whashed the BD. I have driven over 140.000 km now without any problems. What would be the main reason to change to the fool proof method ? I am very willing to learn, so I hope nobody reads this as if the fool proof method would not be better. I just do not know why it would be better. But you HAVE had your problems, haven't you? If not with your Citroen, yet. You couldn't manage to separate the glycerine and FFA in your by-product, despite a lot of help and advice here, and that's dead easy - as I said at the time, it indicated something else was wrong. Then you described your process (using less lye than now - only the basic amount for virgin oil, though you use WVO): I use 3.5 grams of lye and 150 ml methanol in the process and do not titrate. The mixing takes two or three hours, just to make sure that the whole reaction has taken place. Temperature is 15C or a bit more. The oil I use is WVO ( soya ), which has been used for one or two days to bake fish in. After processing, I let it stand for a week or more. I don't wash the BD ( not that I recommend this way of working, but in my case it works OK ). The pH of the BD is just over 7. Plus that you don't separate the by-product, just leave it there and draw biodiesel off the top, and that you measure pH with litmus paper, not the best way. I commented: Not enough lye for WVO and 25ml excess methanol (12.5% stoich for soy) is unlikely to be enough, especially at such low temps for only three hours. I suggested you do a wash test: Have you ever tried washing your biodiesel? I'd be interested to know what happens. Will you try this? Put 150 ml of your biodiesel in a half-litre glass jar, add 150 ml of water (preferably distilled water if you have it, or just tap water if not), screw the lid on tight, and shake it up and down violently for 10 seconds or more. Tell us what happens next. This is what happened next - you wrote: Surprised about what happened : 3 layers. The top layer must be BD ( same color as it always is ), and than a rather thick layer of white flaky stuf, and a layer of troubled water. pH of the BD layer is still just over 7 (measured with litmus paper ). I wasn't surprised - well, a little surprised that it separated at all, and I'd guess it only did that because you let it settle for so long. ... you now have a visible measure of the extent to which the whole reaction has taken place, or perhaps hasn't. That white layer should be at most very thin, hardly more than a slick. I suggested various things you could try next to improve your process/product, but didn't try to push you into titration and using the right amounts of lye and methanol, heating, and washing: Other people using different oils and in different circumstances might not get it to work so well, but that's not your problem, and you didn't recommend it. But you didn't respond, and now it seems you are recommending it. And questioning why anyone would prefer to use the Foolproof acid-base process. The acid-base process is probably the best method available because it gives consistently high-quality results, even with poor-quality oils, with lower amounts of inputs and producing less by-products. But from the above I can only assume that you aren't very interested in the best quality but only in poor-quality fuel, poorly made, as long as it doesn't seem to damage your engine. Yet. You didn't succeed when you tried the Foolproof method. It's not for novices, we and others always recommend starting
Re: [biofuel] Foolproof method
x-charset ISO-8859-1I am very sorry if I suggested to put other people off the methods you recommend. Perhaps it is allso caused by not using the right terms ( I am not from an English speaking country ). Again, very sorry and as said in another mail, I will try it again and do it exactly as you advise. Keep you informed. Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole Netherlands. The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 8:26 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Foolproof method Dag Pieter Maar... Hi all, Maybe a stupid question, and with all respect to Aleks, but I am making BD now for allmost two years, using the single base methode, without titration, just use 150 liter methanol and 4.5 kg NaOH per 1000 liter used vegatable oil. Let it sit for at least a week and very slowly drain(?) what is the right word ? it from the top through a fine filter. I have never whashed the BD. I have driven over 140.000 km now without any problems. What would be the main reason to change to the fool proof method ? I am very willing to learn, so I hope nobody reads this as if the fool proof method would not be better. I just do not know why it would be better. But you HAVE had your problems, haven't you? If not with your Citroen, yet. You couldn't manage to separate the glycerine and FFA in your by-product, despite a lot of help and advice here, and that's dead easy - as I said at the time, it indicated something else was wrong. Then you described your process (using less lye than now - only the basic amount for virgin oil, though you use WVO): I use 3.5 grams of lye and 150 ml methanol in the process and do not titrate. The mixing takes two or three hours, just to make sure that the whole reaction has taken place. Temperature is 15C or a bit more. The oil I use is WVO ( soya ), which has been used for one or two days to bake fish in. After processing, I let it stand for a week or more. I don't wash the BD ( not that I recommend this way of working, but in my case it works OK ). The pH of the BD is just over 7. Plus that you don't separate the by-product, just leave it there and draw biodiesel off the top, and that you measure pH with litmus paper, not the best way. I commented: Not enough lye for WVO and 25ml excess methanol (12.5% stoich for soy) is unlikely to be enough, especially at such low temps for only three hours. I suggested you do a wash test: Have you ever tried washing your biodiesel? I'd be interested to know what happens. Will you try this? Put 150 ml of your biodiesel in a half-litre glass jar, add 150 ml of water (preferably distilled water if you have it, or just tap water if not), screw the lid on tight, and shake it up and down violently for 10 seconds or more. Tell us what happens next. This is what happened next - you wrote: Surprised about what happened : 3 layers. The top layer must be BD ( same color as it always is ), and than a rather thick layer of white flaky stuf, and a layer of troubled water. pH of the BD layer is still just over 7 (measured with litmus paper ). I wasn't surprised - well, a little surprised that it separated at all, and I'd guess it only did that because you let it settle for so long. ... you now have a visible measure of the extent to which the whole reaction has taken place, or perhaps hasn't. That white layer should be at most very thin, hardly more than a slick. I suggested various things you could try next to improve your process/product, but didn't try to push you into titration and using the right amounts of lye and methanol, heating, and washing: Other people using different oils and in different circumstances might not get it to work so well, but that's not your problem, and you didn't recommend it. But you didn't respond, and now it seems you are recommending it. And questioning why anyone would prefer to use the Foolproof acid-base process. The acid-base process is probably the best method available because it gives consistently high-quality results, even with poor-quality oils, with lower amounts of inputs and producing less by-products. But from the above I can only assume that you aren't very interested in the best quality but only in poor-quality fuel, poorly made, as long as it doesn't seem to damage your engine. Yet. You didn't succeed when you
Re: [biofuel] Foolproof method
x-charset ISO-8859-1Hi all, Maybe a stupid question, and with all respect to Aleks, but I am making BD now for allmost two years, using the single base methode, without titration, just use 150 liter methanol and 4.5 kg NaOH per 1000 liter used vegatable oil. Let it sit for at least a week and very slowly drain(?) what is the right word ? it from the top through a fine filter. I have never whashed the BD. I have driven over 140.000 km now without any problems. What would be the main reason to change to the fool proof method ? I am very willing to learn, so I hope nobody reads this as if the fool proof method would not be better. I just do not know why it would be better. Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole Netherlands. The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: Scott Alexander [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 11:44 PM Subject: [biofuel] Foolproof method I wanted to try Alek's foolproof method, but the couple of sites that I've found via the Internet for sulfuric acid and phosphoric acid make them seem quite expensive. Presumably that means that I'm looking in the wrong place. Where should I go to get these at reasonable prices? Thanks, Scott Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
Re: [biofuel] Foolproof method
Hi Todd, What prices are you mentioning ?? In Holland I pay 0,80 per liter acid, which can be sulfuric acid (98%) or posphoric acid (80%). I think you should try to find an industrie where they use a lot of this stuf and buy some from them. Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 5:32 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Foolproof method Try a warehouse for commercial/municipal pool/water treatment. You should be able to get either for less than $20 a gallon, more like $12 for sulfuric and $18 for phosphoric. If all else fails, contact Aqua Science in Columbus, Ohio, 614-252-5000 and ask if they know of any industrial supply house(s) in the Philadelphia-Baltimore area. There have to be several. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Scott Alexander [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 5:44 PM Subject: [biofuel] Foolproof method I wanted to try Alek's foolproof method, but the couple of sites that I've found via the Internet for sulfuric acid and phosphoric acid make them seem quite expensive. Presumably that means that I'm looking in the wrong place. Where should I go to get these at reasonable prices? Thanks, Scott Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
