Re: [Biofuel] global warming tipping point
I was serious though, the list could start an initiative here, members willing, but it'll have to be specific or nothing will happen. Everyone seems to be bandwagoning New Orleans, including Haliburton et al, and on the other hand there've been quite a few biofuelers involved in various worthy relief efforts. What of the future of the city? Are you going to let Haliburton reconstruct New Orleans, like they're supposedly reconstructing Iraq? It seems kind of obvious that New New Orleans should incorporate everything possible to make it a sustainable city, not just environmentally but economically too (much the same thing, often, when it comes down to it). This surely means a rational energy and transport infrastructure, for one thing. I think list members here have examined most of the ground that covers. Then there's this, for instance: http://www.alternet.org/katrina/25745/ AlterNet: Hurricane Katrina: Defining a New 'New Deal' By William Greider, The Nation. Posted September 21, 2005. Must the country continue to give precedence to private financial gain over human lives and public values? Or shall we now undertake a radical restoration on behalf of society and people? Also the piece I just posted, Sun Rising Over New Orleans. This from another piece, Corporations are ready to act on global warming but...: The architects Atelier Ten had designed a cooling system based on the galleries of a termite mound. By installing a concrete labyrinth in the foundations, they could keep even a large building in a hot place - such as the arts center that they had built in Melbourne - at a constant temperature without air conditioning. The only power they needed was to drive the fans pushing the cold air upwards, using 10% of the electricity required for normal cooling systems... A subject close to Hakan's heart perhaps, among others. Why not take an entire city virtually off the GHG map? The Biofuel list is a real think-tank, IMHO, it shouldn't be too much to ask. Best wishes Keith Hi Terry Hi Keith, I must compliment you on the great effort you are giving the world to reduce green house gases. Thankyou. Actually we'd no intention of trying to have any direct effect on GHGs with Journey to Forever but it seems to have happened anyway. The work you are doing should be highly praised. Right now though there seems to be a resistance to moving quicker; there doesn't seem to be a sense of urgency considering that we are so close to the tipping point. Maybe some sort of legislation needs to be enacted such as restricting large trucks from using regular deisel instead of bio deisel. Biodiesel and biofuels are hardly even considered as energy issues in the US, they're still agriculture commodities, nice things for Big Soy and Big Corn and all the usual suspects. A needed sense of urgency has been lacking for rather a long time. While Rome burnt. Well, at least Rome didn't emit fossil-fuel GHGs when it burnt. I was serious though, the list could start an initiative here, members willing, but it'll have to be specific or nothing will happen. Best wishes Keith Terry Dyck From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] global warming tipping point Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 22:55:54 +0900 Hello Terry, tallex and all Hello, Why not discuss the story and implications right here. This list is full of individuals that can help make a difference. Can and have helped, are helping. Biofuel list members save lots of carbon. It's been said the list has helped save more carbon than most governments, or was it more than any government? Who knows. It's one of the things I like about the biofuels movement that nobody has any real idea how much biodiesel and ethanol and heating oil and stuff people are making or re-using or whatever or how much fossil fuel they're not using, but it's easy to figure that it's in the millions of gallons a year and up in the US alone, and it's worldwide. Anyway, I think the carbon saved is not just by making and using biofuels, people take it in all kinds of directions with their own projects and campaigns. I keep hearing of spin-offs I had no idea existed, there must be many more of them. I am one of those individuals that would like to make a difference. Were is the starting gate? Lets get started. Well I think we did get started already, long ago some of us. What would you or anyone suggest we should do that we're not doing already? If other members could say what they're doing and how they see it that might be a start, and it would encourage others to do the same. Best wishes Keith Terry Dyck Believe me the well financed global warming skeptics and traditional fossil fuel suppliers won't win in the long run if we face them head on. We will be confronting serious problems in the near future
Re: [Biofuel] global warming tipping point
Hi Keith, I must compliment you on the great effort you are giving the world to reduce green house gases. The work you are doing should be highly praised. Right now though there seems to be a resistance to moving quicker; there doesn't seem to be a sense of urgency considering that we are so close to the tipping point. Maybe some sort of legislation needs to be enacted such as restricting large trucks from using regular deisel instead of bio deisel. Terry Dyck From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] global warming tipping point Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 22:55:54 +0900 Hello Terry, tallex and all Hello, Why not discuss the story and implications right here. This list is full of individuals that can help make a difference. Can and have helped, are helping. Biofuel list members save lots of carbon. It's been said the list has helped save more carbon than most governments, or was it more than any government? Who knows. It's one of the things I like about the biofuels movement that nobody has any real idea how much biodiesel and ethanol and heating oil and stuff people are making or re-using or whatever or how much fossil fuel they're not using, but it's easy to figure that it's in the millions of gallons a year and up in the US alone, and it's worldwide. Anyway, I think the carbon saved is not just by making and using biofuels, people take it in all kinds of directions with their own projects and campaigns. I keep hearing of spin-offs I had no idea existed, there must be many more of them. I am one of those individuals that would like to make a difference. Were is the starting gate? Lets get started. Well I think we did get started already, long ago some of us. What would you or anyone suggest we should do that we're not doing already? If other members could say what they're doing and how they see it that might be a start, and it would encourage others to do the same. Best wishes Keith Terry Dyck Believe me the well financed global warming skeptics and traditional fossil fuel suppliers won't win in the long run if we face them head on. We will be confronting serious problems in the near future from our past energy gluttony and disregard for the earth's natural ecosystems. We got ourselves into this mess and we are going to have to find sustainable solutions to develop a viable future for the planet. regards tallex ---Original Message--- From: Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] global warming tipping point Sent: 17 Sep '05 19:44 [0]mad_goldfish writes The UK's Independent is running a front page story today on a scientific report claiming that [1]global warming is now unstoppable, after measuring changes in the level of ice in the arctic. From the article: The greatest fear is that the Arctic has reached a 'tipping point' beyond which nothing can reverse the continual loss of sea ice and with it the massive land glaciers of Greenland, which will raise sea levels dramatically. Satellites monitoring the Arctic have found that the extent of the sea ice this August has reached its lowest monthly point on record, dipping an unprecedented 18.2 per cent below the long-term average. Either way, [2]someone wins a bet. Discuss this story at: http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=05/09/16/1514216 Links: 0. mailto:craig...nicol@@@gmail...com 1. http://news.independent.co.uk/world/science_technology/article312997.ece 2. http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/08/20/1845247tid=126 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] global warming tipping point
Hi Terry Hi Keith, I must compliment you on the great effort you are giving the world to reduce green house gases. Thankyou. Actually we'd no intention of trying to have any direct effect on GHGs with Journey to Forever but it seems to have happened anyway. The work you are doing should be highly praised. Right now though there seems to be a resistance to moving quicker; there doesn't seem to be a sense of urgency considering that we are so close to the tipping point. Maybe some sort of legislation needs to be enacted such as restricting large trucks from using regular deisel instead of bio deisel. Biodiesel and biofuels are hardly even considered as energy issues in the US, they're still agriculture commodities, nice things for Big Soy and Big Corn and all the usual suspects. A needed sense of urgency has been lacking for rather a long time. While Rome burnt. Well, at least Rome didn't emit fossil-fuel GHGs when it burnt. I was serious though, the list could start an initiative here, members willing, but it'll have to be specific or nothing will happen. Best wishes Keith Terry Dyck From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] global warming tipping point Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 22:55:54 +0900 Hello Terry, tallex and all Hello, Why not discuss the story and implications right here. This list is full of individuals that can help make a difference. Can and have helped, are helping. Biofuel list members save lots of carbon. It's been said the list has helped save more carbon than most governments, or was it more than any government? Who knows. It's one of the things I like about the biofuels movement that nobody has any real idea how much biodiesel and ethanol and heating oil and stuff people are making or re-using or whatever or how much fossil fuel they're not using, but it's easy to figure that it's in the millions of gallons a year and up in the US alone, and it's worldwide. Anyway, I think the carbon saved is not just by making and using biofuels, people take it in all kinds of directions with their own projects and campaigns. I keep hearing of spin-offs I had no idea existed, there must be many more of them. I am one of those individuals that would like to make a difference. Were is the starting gate? Lets get started. Well I think we did get started already, long ago some of us. What would you or anyone suggest we should do that we're not doing already? If other members could say what they're doing and how they see it that might be a start, and it would encourage others to do the same. Best wishes Keith Terry Dyck Believe me the well financed global warming skeptics and traditional fossil fuel suppliers won't win in the long run if we face them head on. We will be confronting serious problems in the near future from our past energy gluttony and disregard for the earth's natural ecosystems. We got ourselves into this mess and we are going to have to find sustainable solutions to develop a viable future for the planet. regards tallex ---Original Message--- From: Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] global warming tipping point Sent: 17 Sep '05 19:44 [0]mad_goldfish writes The UK's Independent is running a front page story today on a scientific report claiming that [1]global warming is now unstoppable, after measuring changes in the level of ice in the arctic. From the article: The greatest fear is that the Arctic has reached a 'tipping point' beyond which nothing can reverse the continual loss of sea ice and with it the massive land glaciers of Greenland, which will raise sea levels dramatically. Satellites monitoring the Arctic have found that the extent of the sea ice this August has reached its lowest monthly point on record, dipping an unprecedented 18.2 per cent below the long-term average. Either way, [2]someone wins a bet. Discuss this story at: http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=05/09/16/1514216 Links: 0. mailto:craig...nicol@@@gmail...com 1. http://news.independent.co.uk/world/science_technology/article312997.ece 2. http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/08/20/1845247tid=126 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] global warming tipping point
I was serious though, the list could start an initiative here, members willing, but it'll have to be specific or nothing will happen. Well, how about we see what some people have done and how they worked, and figure out what a good concrete goal is and how to go in that direction. Here's specific steps that I have taken: Switching all lightbulbs to compact fluorescents Riding my bike around town for errands instead of driving Taking the bus to work instead of driving Putting PV on my bus (more like my mountain cabin since I don't drive it) Running biodiesel in my pickup, and soon my car Buying wind energy from the utility for the house I rent in town. And working on a solar thermal heating system and PV system for my new house I just bought in the mountains. Trying to buy local produce and goods when possible (hard to even tell much of the time...) The disturbing thing is that, after doing all of this which reduces my impact to much less than the average American, I still have an enormous impact compared to the average Indian or African. My workplace is 25 miles from my house. I spend several days a week at my place in the mountains instead of down in town, which is another 40 miles round trip each day, and the bus doesn't go up there. If I could live in the city, I could reduce my impact from driving, but #1, I can't stand the city psychologically due to the simultaneous lack of community and high population density, and #2, I can't afford to buy anything in town, which prevents me from adding insulation/solar collectors, etc to reduce the energy impacts of my residence. But I'm trying. And quite honestly, what finally drove me to switch to biodiesel was not global warming (I used to buy greentags to offset carbon from my gasoline car), but the war in Iraq. Zeke On 9/21/05, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Terry Hi Keith, I must compliment you on the great effort you are giving the world to reduce green house gases. Thankyou. Actually we'd no intention of trying to have any direct effect on GHGs with Journey to Forever but it seems to have happened anyway. The work you are doing should be highly praised. Right now though there seems to be a resistance to moving quicker; there doesn't seem to be a sense of urgency considering that we are so close to the tipping point. Maybe some sort of legislation needs to be enacted such as restricting large trucks from using regular deisel instead of bio deisel. Biodiesel and biofuels are hardly even considered as energy issues in the US, they're still agriculture commodities, nice things for Big Soy and Big Corn and all the usual suspects. A needed sense of urgency has been lacking for rather a long time. While Rome burnt. Well, at least Rome didn't emit fossil-fuel GHGs when it burnt. I was serious though, the list could start an initiative here, members willing, but it'll have to be specific or nothing will happen. Best wishes Keith Terry Dyck From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] global warming tipping point Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 22:55:54 +0900 Hello Terry, tallex and all Hello, Why not discuss the story and implications right here. This list is full of individuals that can help make a difference. Can and have helped, are helping. Biofuel list members save lots of carbon. It's been said the list has helped save more carbon than most governments, or was it more than any government? Who knows. It's one of the things I like about the biofuels movement that nobody has any real idea how much biodiesel and ethanol and heating oil and stuff people are making or re-using or whatever or how much fossil fuel they're not using, but it's easy to figure that it's in the millions of gallons a year and up in the US alone, and it's worldwide. Anyway, I think the carbon saved is not just by making and using biofuels, people take it in all kinds of directions with their own projects and campaigns. I keep hearing of spin-offs I had no idea existed, there must be many more of them. I am one of those individuals that would like to make a difference. Were is the starting gate? Lets get started. Well I think we did get started already, long ago some of us. What would you or anyone suggest we should do that we're not doing already? If other members could say what they're doing and how they see it that might be a start, and it would encourage others to do the same. Best wishes Keith Terry Dyck Believe me the well financed global warming skeptics and traditional fossil fuel suppliers won't win in the long run if we face them head on. We will be confronting serious problems in the near future from our past energy gluttony and disregard for the earth's natural ecosystems. We got ourselves
Re: [Biofuel] global warming tipping point
Hello Terry, tallex and all Hello, Why not discuss the story and implications right here. This list is full of individuals that can help make a difference. Can and have helped, are helping. Biofuel list members save lots of carbon. It's been said the list has helped save more carbon than most governments, or was it more than any government? Who knows. It's one of the things I like about the biofuels movement that nobody has any real idea how much biodiesel and ethanol and heating oil and stuff people are making or re-using or whatever or how much fossil fuel they're not using, but it's easy to figure that it's in the millions of gallons a year and up in the US alone, and it's worldwide. Anyway, I think the carbon saved is not just by making and using biofuels, people take it in all kinds of directions with their own projects and campaigns. I keep hearing of spin-offs I had no idea existed, there must be many more of them. I am one of those individuals that would like to make a difference. Were is the starting gate? Lets get started. Well I think we did get started already, long ago some of us. What would you or anyone suggest we should do that we're not doing already? If other members could say what they're doing and how they see it that might be a start, and it would encourage others to do the same. Best wishes Keith Terry Dyck Believe me the well financed global warming skeptics and traditional fossil fuel suppliers won't win in the long run if we face them head on. We will be confronting serious problems in the near future from our past energy gluttony and disregard for the earth's natural ecosystems. We got ourselves into this mess and we are going to have to find sustainable solutions to develop a viable future for the planet. regards tallex ---Original Message--- From: Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] global warming tipping point Sent: 17 Sep '05 19:44 [0]mad_goldfish writes The UK's Independent is running a front page story today on a scientific report claiming that [1]global warming is now unstoppable, after measuring changes in the level of ice in the arctic. From the article: The greatest fear is that the Arctic has reached a 'tipping point' beyond which nothing can reverse the continual loss of sea ice and with it the massive land glaciers of Greenland, which will raise sea levels dramatically. Satellites monitoring the Arctic have found that the extent of the sea ice this August has reached its lowest monthly point on record, dipping an unprecedented 18.2 per cent below the long-term average. Either way, [2]someone wins a bet. Discuss this story at: http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=05/09/16/1514216 Links: 0. mailto:craig...nicol@@@gmail...com 1. http://news.independent.co.uk/world/science_technology/article312997.ece 2. http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/08/20/1845247tid=126 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] global warming tipping point
From: Alt.EnergyNetwork [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] global warming tipping point Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 07:33:18 + Hello, Why not discuss the story and implications right here. This list is full of individuals that can help make a difference. I am one of those individuals that would like to make a difference. Were is the starting gate? Lets get started. Terry Dyck Believe me the well financed global warming skeptics and traditional fossil fuel suppliers won't win in the long run if we face them head on. We will be confronting serious problems in the near future from our past energy gluttony and disregard for the earth's natural ecosystems. We got ourselves into this mess and we are going to have to find sustainable solutions to develop a viable future for the planet. regards tallex next_generation_grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid news resources forums tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network http://www.alternate-energy.net 1000+ news sources - resources updated daily ---Original Message--- From: Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] global warming tipping point Sent: 17 Sep '05 19:44 [0]mad_goldfish writes The UK's Independent is running a front page story today on a scientific report claiming that [1]global warming is now unstoppable, after measuring changes in the level of ice in the arctic. From the article: The greatest fear is that the Arctic has reached a 'tipping point' beyond which nothing can reverse the continual loss of sea ice and with it the massive land glaciers of Greenland, which will raise sea levels dramatically. Satellites monitoring the Arctic have found that the extent of the sea ice this August has reached its lowest monthly point on record, dipping an unprecedented 18.2 per cent below the long-term average. Either way, [2]someone wins a bet. Discuss this story at: http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=05/09/16/1514216 Links: 0. mailto:craig...nicol@@@gmail...com 1. http://news.independent.co.uk/world/science_technology/article312997.ece 2. http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/08/20/1845247tid=126 Yahoo! for Good [LINK: http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/] Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ___ Biofuel mailing list [LINK: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel@sustainablelists.org [LINK: http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org] http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: [LINK: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html] http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): [LINK: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/] http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network http://www.alternate-energy.net 1000+ news sources - resources updated daily ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] global warming tipping point
You know... I hate it when I'm right. I was right about Iraq, and more and more it appears I may have been right about global warming too IF we have reached the tipping point where catastrophic effects from global warming are unavoidable, even if we completely stopped CO2 emissions right now, then does it become more or less urgent to cut emissions? It seems like at the tipping point, the incremental cost of emissions becomes much less and global warming actually does become something that we can't do anything about. In that case, perhaps a massive public works project to move cities, redesign our transportation system, revamp architecture, etc, becomes in order. This will require using alot of fossil fuels (because there is no other current source capable of doing this massive project), but it could be argued that, if indeed we have reached a tipping point, that preventing global warming is moot, and we should do whatever we can to deal with the effects of global warming. There are other reasons to cut fossil fuel use besides global warming (societal, global equity, peak oil, local pollution, etc), but perhaps we've already done the damage on the global warming front. Rush Limbaugh actually had a point on this -- he said that everyone in New Orleans switching to wind power or driving a prius wouldn't have helped save them once Katrina entered the gulf. Of course he then proceeded to use this as evidence that global warming was a hoax. Of course, what I think is more likely is that society as a whole will continue to deny global warming until the very point it finally takes them out. Keep an eye on Rita. I hear the gulf still has really high surface temperatures On 9/18/05, Terry Dyck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Alt.EnergyNetwork [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] global warming tipping point Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 07:33:18 + Hello, Why not discuss the story and implications right here. This list is full of individuals that can help make a difference. I am one of those individuals that would like to make a difference. Were is the starting gate? Lets get started. Terry Dyck Believe me the well financed global warming skeptics and traditional fossil fuel suppliers won't win in the long run if we face them head on. We will be confronting serious problems in the near future from our past energy gluttony and disregard for the earth's natural ecosystems. We got ourselves into this mess and we are going to have to find sustainable solutions to develop a viable future for the planet. regards tallex next_generation_grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid news resources forums tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network http://www.alternate-energy.net 1000+ news sources - resources updated daily ---Original Message--- From: Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] global warming tipping point Sent: 17 Sep '05 19:44 [0]mad_goldfish writes The UK's Independent is running a front page story today on a scientific report claiming that [1]global warming is now unstoppable, after measuring changes in the level of ice in the arctic. From the article: The greatest fear is that the Arctic has reached a 'tipping point' beyond which nothing can reverse the continual loss of sea ice and with it the massive land glaciers of Greenland, which will raise sea levels dramatically. Satellites monitoring the Arctic have found that the extent of the sea ice this August has reached its lowest monthly point on record, dipping an unprecedented 18.2 per cent below the long-term average. Either way, [2]someone wins a bet. Discuss this story at: http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=05/09/16/1514216 Links: 0. mailto:craig...nicol@@@gmail...com 1. http://news.independent.co.uk/world/science_technology/article312997.ece 2. http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/08/20/1845247tid=126 Yahoo! for Good [LINK: http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/] Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ___ Biofuel mailing list [LINK: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel@sustainablelists.org [LINK: http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org] http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: [LINK: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html] http://journeytoforever.org
Re: [Biofuel] global warming tipping point
On Sep 19, 2005, at 8:23 AM, Zeke Yewdall wrote: it could be argued that, if indeed we have reached a tipping point, that preventing global warming is moot, and we should do whatever we can to deal with the effects of global warming. We should do that anyway.. There are other reasons to cut fossil fuel use besides global warming (societal, global equity, peak oil, local pollution, etc), but perhaps we've already done the damage on the global warming front. We've undoubtedly done MUCH damage, but there is much more we could do or choose not to. I bet if we tried hard enough, we could have runaway greenhouse effect and end up like Venus. OTOH, If we get control of our appetites and denial quickly, we may only lose a few thousand species and a few million people. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] global warming tipping point
Hello, Why not discuss the story and implications right here. This list is full of individuals that can help make a difference. Believe me the well financed global warming skeptics and traditional fossil fuel suppliers won't win in the long run if we face them head on. We will be confronting serious problems in the near future from our past energy gluttony and disregard for the earth's natural ecosystems. We got ourselves into this mess and we are going to have to find sustainable solutions to develop a viable future for the planet. regards tallex next_generation_grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid news resources forums tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network http://www.alternate-energy.net 1000+ news sources - resources updated daily ---Original Message--- From: Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] global warming tipping point Sent: 17 Sep '05 19:44 [0]mad_goldfish writes The UK's Independent is running a front page story today on a scientific report claiming that [1]global warming is now unstoppable, after measuring changes in the level of ice in the arctic. From the article: The greatest fear is that the Arctic has reached a 'tipping point' beyond which nothing can reverse the continual loss of sea ice and with it the massive land glaciers of Greenland, which will raise sea levels dramatically. Satellites monitoring the Arctic have found that the extent of the sea ice this August has reached its lowest monthly point on record, dipping an unprecedented 18.2 per cent below the long-term average. Either way, [2]someone wins a bet. Discuss this story at: http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=05/09/16/1514216 Links: 0. mailto:craig...nicol@@@gmail...com 1. http://news.independent.co.uk/world/science_technology/article312997.ece 2. http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/08/20/1845247tid=126 Yahoo! for Good [LINK: http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/] Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ___ Biofuel mailing list [LINK: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel@sustainablelists.org [LINK: http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org] http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: [LINK: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html] http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): [LINK: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/] http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network http://www.alternate-energy.net 1000+ news sources - resources updated daily ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
