Re: [Tagging] Water featuers
On May 25, 2015, at 6:53 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: Am 24.05.2015 um 14:36 schrieb John Willis jo...@mac.com: I always thought a cascade is a series of waterfalls connected together. I thought it was a word for a single waterfall as well... The water careened off the cliff. The car careened off the cliff The error cascaded through the computers The water cascaded off the rocks, People who would refer to a singular waterfall as a cascade are incorrect. People who refer to the action of the water (it cascaded down the cliff) are not so far off, but it would not be referred to as a cascade. But people muddy the meaning with incorrect usage. The example pic I linked to is different than all the waterfalls I have seen. Also - saying a waterfall is a reflecting pool is very disingenuous - it's not that it reflects - it's *what* it reflects - usually some kind of scenery or famous architecture. in particular, a waterfall is not a pool. Reflection of light is what it makes look interesting (glitter) And they make rainbows and icicles too. J ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Wiki: Key:level: proposed rewrite
2015-05-25 9:25 GMT+02:00 Michael Reichert naka...@gmx.net: Any objection if I 'rewrite http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:level ? It seems to have been written with the misconception that floor names are numbers when they're not. A rewrite: - Won't affect existing names that appear as numbers. - Will encourage mappers to use correct names for floors (as found in the building) rather than attempt to convert them to meaningless numbers. I do object as well because I'd expect you to post the concrete modifications you plan to apply. This way we can discuss if these changes are fine or not, and why. I oppose. Numeric level values can be used to display a building plan layer by layer where higher floors lay over lower floors. Most software which uses level=* at the moment expects that it is a numeric value. Well, the definition does explicitly name strings values: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:level#String_values so it doesn't seem to be against common standards to use them. Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
AYTOUN RALPH wrote: Then the next thing they will need to know is the type of socket so type=* (example ... plug_UK ; plug_EU ; USB123 ; USB_C) It is customary in osm to avoid type=*, except for relations. Type of what, i.e. power_socket=* or socket=plug_UK (or, rather, the better values somebody else linked to). -- alv ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Wiki: Key:level: proposed rewrite
Hi, Am 2015-05-25 um 01:41 schrieb pmailkeey .: Any objection if I 'rewrite http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:level ? It seems to have been written with the misconception that floor names are numbers when they're not. A rewrite: - Won't affect existing names that appear as numbers. - Will encourage mappers to use correct names for floors (as found in the building) rather than attempt to convert them to meaningless numbers. I oppose. Numeric level values can be used to display a building plan layer by layer where higher floors lay over lower floors. Most software which uses level=* at the moment expects that it is a numeric value. Example: https://youtu.be/qcB5CP-IkLg?t=17m12s If a building has named levels, you can still use numbers at OSM. (It's like our usage of layer=*) If you want that data users get the floor names, why don't you add a level:name=* tag, e.g. level:name=ground floor level=0 level:name=basement level=-1 level:name=underground parking level=-2 level:name=restaurant floor level=1? Please do not try to change the meaning of a frequently used tag. Best regards Michael -- Per E-Mail kommuniziere ich bevorzugt GPG-verschlüsselt. (Mailinglisten ausgenommen) I prefer GPG encryption of emails. (does not apply on mailing lists) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Wiki: Key:level: proposed rewrite
No. If you were to do that you would need a scheme that defines the sequence. If you work with floor names, you need to define a table that assigns levels to names as well. The approach to count is correct and the base shold be that ground level is level 0. On 25 May 2015 at 01:41, pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: Any objection if I 'rewrite http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:level ? It seems to have been written with the misconception that floor names are numbers when they're not. A rewrite: - Won't affect existing names that appear as numbers. - Will encourage mappers to use correct names for floors (as found in the building) rather than attempt to convert them to meaningless numbers. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] housenumber on node and area
2015-05-23 1:56 GMT+02:00 pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com: have a look at these housenumbers, they're 5 and 7 for this side of the building (one big hotel), but the main address is from the main street (front of the buikding) and is different. https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-it/attachments/20150520/465c45fc/attachment-0001.jpg I'm not even sure whether both of these are doors or just one need more info - Google streetview link? Here you are, please also have a look at the opposite side of the road, there is also a building with different housenumbers (because every entrance is assigned a housenumber there, even if it's not an actual entrance but a possible entrance (e.g. at some time in the past there was an entrance)). https://www.google.it/maps/@41.889945,12.498432,3a,75y,295.64h,97.03t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sFHbNr6r2HbfpCK-bhCoVRQ!2e0!6m1!1e1?hl=en Please also note that there aren't necessarily letterboxes, rather the opposite, there won't be a letterbox if it is a lateral entrance (or even window) which is not used as an entrance. Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Water featuers
On Sun, May 24, 2015 at 11:53:48PM +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Am 24.05.2015 um 14:36 schrieb John Willis jo...@mac.com: I always thought a cascade is a series of waterfalls connected together. I thought it was a word for a single waterfall as well... in some languages a cascade is any series of things, be it electronic switches in circuits or waterfalls - even in English as I have just noticed from reading wiktionary: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cascade So cascade would be a true weasel tag. Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Deprecating wikipedia Tag
On 25 May 2015 at 13:18, Thorsten Alge li...@thorsten-alge.de wrote: Since wikidata will be the center of all Wikimedia wikis it might be better to link to wikidata items instead of wikipedia article. Thats why I wonder what you think of deprecating the wikipedia tags (NOT DELETING any of them) and focus on wikidata tags I agree that Wikidata tags are much better, and to be preferred. However, it is easier for a novice (in either OSM or Wikipedia terms) to add a Wikipedia tag; another editor, or a bot, can then convert it to a Wikidata tag. I do strongly urge fellow editors to add Wikdiata atgs whenver appraoraite, bit for objects, and for things like etymologies, architects etc. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Water featuers
Am 25.05.2015 um 13:37 schrieb Richard ricoz@gmail.com: in some languages a cascade is any series of things, be it electronic switches in circuits or waterfalls - even in English as I have just noticed from reading wiktionary: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cascade So cascade would be a true weasel tag. yes, it is typical for words to have different meanings in different contexts, but water=cascade will be much less a weasel than the word cascade alone cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Deprecating wikipedia Tag
Hallo List, I started mapping wikidata tags some time ago. Those are great because you can find wikipedia articles in any language you want (not only the 'primary' language) and and plenty of other information which might be interesting for your project. Since wikidata will be the center of all Wikimedia wikis it might be better to link to wikidata items instead of wikipedia article. Thats why I wonder what you think of deprecating the wikipedia tags (NOT DELETING any of them) and focus on wikidata tags. Of course there are plenty of projects which doesn't support wikidata yet but I'm sure if the tags are there they will follow. Regards Thorsten ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
If you have a flat battery in your phone/laptop and want to charge it .. it is usefull to know where a public power socket is available. And then is HAS TO BE on opentreetmap.org? A charing app or map is not good enough? __ openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Deprecating wikipedia Tag
It must not be more difficult for a novice if the editor supports fetching the wikidata item when a wikipedia-tag is present. On 2015-05-25 14:40, Andy Mabbett wrote: On 25 May 2015 at 13:18, Thorsten Alge li...@thorsten-alge.de wrote: Since wikidata will be the center of all Wikimedia wikis it might be better to link to wikidata items instead of wikipedia article. Thats why I wonder what you think of deprecating the wikipedia tags (NOT DELETING any of them) and focus on wikidata tags I agree that Wikidata tags are much better, and to be preferred. However, it is easier for a novice (in either OSM or Wikipedia terms) to add a Wikipedia tag; another editor, or a bot, can then convert it to a Wikidata tag. I do strongly urge fellow editors to add Wikdiata atgs whenver appraoraite, bit for objects, and for things like etymologies, architects etc. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Deprecating wikipedia Tag
I think for most people, especially the more casual ones using ID, it will be easier to map wikipedia tags so I think we should keep it. Long term it would probably be great to have a automated system that just pulls the Wikidata ID when you put in a wikipedia, but I don't think that will happen soon. Hallo List, I started mapping wikidata tags some time ago. Those are great because you can find wikipedia articles in any language you want (not only the 'primary' language) and and plenty of other information which might be interesting for your project. Since wikidata will be the center of all Wikimedia wikis it might be better to link to wikidata items instead of wikipedia article. Thats why I wonder what you think of deprecating the wikipedia tags (NOT DELETING any of them) and focus on wikidata tags. Of course there are plenty of projects which doesn't support wikidata yet but I'm sure if the tags are there they will follow. Regards Thorsten ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- __ openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Wiki: Key:level: proposed rewrite
The floor level *order* will be clear from the ele(vation) tag, won't it. Hence no need for a new tag of level_name. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Wiki: Key:level: proposed rewrite
On 25/05/2015, Michael Reichert naka...@gmx.net wrote: I oppose. Numeric level values can be used to display a building plan layer by layer where higher floors lay over lower floors. Most software which uses level=* at the moment expects that it is a numeric value. Example: https://youtu.be/qcB5CP-IkLg?t=17m12s If a building has named levels, you can still use numbers at OSM. (It's like our usage of layer=*) +1. There are two distinct needs : enabling software to sort levels for rendering and navigation purposes, and the need to show the textual name that humans expect. The level=* key is currently used for the fist case (otherwise you'd see a lot more text values in taginfo). If you want that data users get the floor names, why don't you add a level:name=* tag, e.g. Looked tempting at first, but I'm not sure I'm a fan: * It's brand new and never used before. * level=* tags are currently typically added to POIs inside the buldings. Keeping level:name in sync on all those nodes seems like an awful lot of tedious error-prone work. * We should be able to have an osm object representing the level itself, and tag that with a standard name=*. I won't pretend to be up to date with the various schemas for indoor mapping, but the type=site site=level relation seems quite idiomatic, and can be named as usual. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Deprecating wikipedia Tag
On 25 May 2015 at 13:18, Thorsten Alge li...@thorsten-alge.de wrote: Since wikidata will be the center of all Wikimedia wikis it might be better to link to wikidata items instead of wikipedia article. Thats why I wonder what you think of deprecating the wikipedia tags (NOT DELETING any of them) and focus on wikidata tags I already replied that I wonder what's the idea behind that enforcement. Why wouldn't Wikidata be used also rather than instead? Is it really a goal of OSM insisting to destroy Wikipedia? That suggestion sounds to me as bizarre as wanting to replace English with French. Everybody be happy, André. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Wiki: Key:level: proposed rewrite
On 25/05/2015, pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: The floor level *order* will be clear from the ele(vation) tag, won't it. No. Since when has the ele=* tag been used for floors in a building? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Deprecating wikipedia Tag
Ok, No. Having the wikidata-tag enables an application to select the wikipedia-article in the language of the users choice or to easily load additional information from wikidata like a cities crest for displaying. The advantage would be that a user wouldn't get the German article because its a German object but the article in his preferred language. Saying I wanna destroy wikipedia is a bit harsch since I only asked for opinions. Thorsten ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Wiki: Key:level: proposed rewrite
Using level = number would also mean you'd lose relative floor height information: Lifts (Elevators) Highest floor available Red Sky Lift – floor numbers correspond to the Main Building. 7 Blue Sky Lift – floor numbers correspond to the South Wing 10 or 11 North Wing 10 In the above example, one floor can be level 11, level 7 and level 10 depending in which part of the building you are. Clearly a simple numbering system doesn't indicate which floors are level with each other and only the ele tag would clarify this. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Wiki: Key:level: proposed rewrite
On 25 May 2015 at 13:55, moltonel 3x Combo molto...@gmail.com wrote: On 25/05/2015, Michael Reichert naka...@gmx.net wrote: I oppose. Numeric level values can be used to display a building plan layer by layer where higher floors lay over lower floors. Most software which uses level=* at the moment expects that it is a numeric value. Example: https://youtu.be/qcB5CP-IkLg?t=17m12s If a building has named levels, you can still use numbers at OSM. (It's like our usage of layer=*) +1. There are two distinct needs : enabling software to sort levels for rendering and navigation purposes, and the need to show the textual name that humans expect. The level=* key is currently used for the fist case (otherwise you'd see a lot more text values in taginfo). Not necessarily as many buildings' floor names are numeric in nature. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Wiki: Key:level: proposed rewrite
On 25 May 2015 at 14:08, Andrew Errington erringt...@gmail.com wrote: On 25/05/2015, pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: The floor level *order* will be clear from the ele(vation) tag, won't it. No. Since when has the ele=* tag been used for floors in a building? What other tag do you propose to indicate vertical position then ? Why would we need another tag when ele fits this purpose? -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Deprecating wikipedia Tag
On Mon, May 25, 2015 at 3:08 PM, André Pirard a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com wrote: I already replied that I wonder what's the idea behind that enforcement. Why wouldn't Wikidata be used also rather than instead? Is it really a goal of OSM insisting to destroy Wikipedia? So when people stop linking to Wikipedia, Wikipedia will be destroyed ? Or do I miss something here ? regards m ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] shop=supplements = shop=dietary_supplements
Since I have not gotten much replies I though I might just try out our new polling platform a German community member made. http://osm.haraldhartmann.de/umfrage/poll/28 Just found the proposal for shop=supplements. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/supplements On the talk page already a lot of people suggested using shop=nutrition_supplements instead. But looking at Wikipedia and google it seems like shop=dietary_supplements would be even more fitting. What do you think? __ openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Wiki: Key:level: proposed rewrite
elevation tag is not a good solution, as it requires a measurement that in most cases is difficult to obtain On 25 May 2015 at 14:49, pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: The floor level *order* will be clear from the ele(vation) tag, won't it. Hence no need for a new tag of level_name. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Deprecating wikipedia Tag
On Mon May 25 14:29:21 2015 GMT+0100, Marc Gemis wrote: On Mon, May 25, 2015 at 3:08 PM, André Pirard a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com wrote: I already replied that I wonder what's the idea behind that enforcement. Why wouldn't Wikidata be used also rather than instead? Is it really a goal of OSM insisting to destroy Wikipedia? So when people stop linking to Wikipedia, Wikipedia will be destroyed ? Or do I miss something here ? I think a lot of us mappers are going to need a lot of convincing, wikipedia tags, in common with other osm tags, are human readable. When reviewing changes I do not see a number that is meaningless without following the link, and even then the wikidata page looks pretty meaningless. Phil (trigpoint ) -- Sent from my Jolla ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Wiki: Key:level: proposed rewrite
On 25/05/2015, pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: There are two distinct needs : enabling software to sort levels for rendering and navigation purposes, and the need to show the textual name that humans expect. The level=* key is currently used for the fist case (otherwise you'd see a lot more text values in taginfo). Not necessarily as many buildings' floor names are numeric in nature. Out of 127k uses, the first non-numeric level=* value in taginfo is unknown (94 uses / 0.07%). Then come story_1 (44 uses), story_2 (32), from -1 to -2 (23), primary (17), secondary (16), blue (10) and finally UG (6). I think that if level=* was somewhat regularly used for the *name* of a floor, we'd see a lot more of Ground floor, Lobby or G. The idea that 4th floor gets abbreviated to 4 doesn't explain the values seen in taginfo. The only reason I see is that level=* is not a name but a synthetic value used for OSM internals, just like leyer=*. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Deprecating wikipedia Tag
Le lun. 25 mai 2015 à 15:08 +0200, André Pirard a écrit : On 25 May 2015 at 13:18, Thorsten Alge li...@thorsten-alge.de wrote: Since wikidata will be the center of all Wikimedia wikis it might be better to link to wikidata items instead of wikipedia article. Thats why I wonder what you think of deprecating the wikipedia tags (NOT DELETING any of them) and focus on wikidata tags I already replied that I wonder what's the idea behind that enforcement. Why wouldn't Wikidata be used also rather than instead? Is it really a goal of OSM insisting to destroy Wikipedia? Wikidata has one more advantage : sometimes, Wikipedia pages are renamed (bad initial convention, or real-life renaming, or whatever), whereas Wikidata items identifiers (Q...), are persistent for unique concepts. In WP, renaming is rare, but not very rare, so relying on wikidata would increase the overall robustness of OSM/wiki* integration. -- ° /\Guillaume AllègreOpenStreetMap France /~~\/\ allegre.guilla...@free.fr Cartographie libre et collaborative / /~~\tél. 04.76.63.26.99 http://www.openstreetmap.fr ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Deprecating wikipedia Tag
ikidata will always be playing catch-up to wikipedia, to some extent. Can you just show me a single Wikipedia entry without a Wikidata object. __ openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Deprecating wikipedia Tag
On 25/05/2015, p...@trigpoint.me.uk p...@trigpoint.me.uk wrote: I think a lot of us mappers are going to need a lot of convincing, wikipedia tags, in common with other osm tags, are human readable. When reviewing changes I do not see a number that is meaningless without following the link, and even then the wikidata page looks pretty meaningless. Also, a lot of wikipedia articles do not (yet) have a wikidata counterpart. As OSM is quite a time sink already, I am not going to start creating wikidata (or even wikipedia) articles when none exist for an OSM object I'm editing. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Wiki: Key:level: proposed rewrite
On 25/05/2015, pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: Also knowing the street elevation would give the clue as to which floor was 'ground level' - as would a highway linking internal routes to external. You shouldn't focus on trying to determine the ground level, as there are many many buildings that have no reasonable unique answer to that. Just like with the layer tag, the important thing is to get the stacking order right, and coherent with the neaby data. When there's a clear ground level it's nice mnemotechnic to number it level=0, but that's optional. Routing and rendering, not labeling. Ele would at least tie in with 3D mapping whereas positional info is lost with 'level=' To me, ele=* associated to a particular floor sounds awfull. Is it the altitude of the floor ? Ceiling ? Eye-level ? 3D and indoor mapping is great, and I wish we had better tools and data model to represent it in OSM. ele=* could be used as a poor man's Z coordinate for 3d modeling, but please don't mix it with the concept of building floors. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Water featuers
On Mon, May 25, 2015 at 01:46:18PM +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: So cascade would be a true weasel tag. yes, it is typical for words to have different meanings in different contexts, but water=cascade will be much less a weasel than the word cascade alone still enough of a weasel word. still weasel enough. Could be a single waterfall, a series of them or this: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldau-Kaskade Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] shop=supplements = shop=dietary_supplements
To me, a native American speaker, both tags tell me what sort of shop this is. There are only a few such shops tagged either way but nutrition_supplements is more popular. There is the usual problem of some mappers using plural (supplements) and others singular but other than that I'd say use whatever suits you. On Mon, May 25, 2015 at 5:40 AM, Andreas Goss andi...@t-online.de wrote: Since I have not gotten much replies I though I might just try out our new polling platform a German community member made. http://osm.haraldhartmann.de/umfrage/poll/28 Just found the proposal for shop=supplements. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/supplements On the talk page already a lot of people suggested using shop=nutrition_supplements instead. But looking at Wikipedia and google it seems like shop=dietary_supplements would be even more fitting. What do you think? __ openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Deprecating wikipedia Tag
On 25/05/2015, Guillaume Allegre allegre.guilla...@free.fr wrote: I already replied that I wonder what's the idea behind that enforcement. Why wouldn't Wikidata be used also rather than instead? Is it really a goal of OSM insisting to destroy Wikipedia? Wikidata has one more advantage : sometimes, Wikipedia pages are renamed (bad initial convention, or real-life renaming, or whatever), whereas Wikidata items identifiers (Q...), are persistent for unique concepts. I don't think that anybody claimed that wikidata tags were not desirable, nor a superset of wikipedia tags. The objections are about the idea that the wikipedia tag should be deprecated in favor of the wikidata tag : * wikipedia names are friendlyer to mappers, and generally more well-known * wikidata objects don't necessarily exist for all wikipedia articles we want to use * For data consumers wanting to show the wikipedia article (by far the most common usecase), using the wikipedia tag is much more straightforward than using the wikidata tag (leaving the language and renames issues to more meticulous data consumers). So. I'm quite happy with the status quo, having both wikipedia and wikidata tags in OSM. I'm sure there's a QA tool somewhere that can point ou discrepancy between the two tags, if need be. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Deprecating wikipedia Tag
2015-05-25 16:24 GMT+02:00 moltonel 3x Combo molto...@gmail.com: Also, a lot of wikipedia articles do not (yet) have a wikidata counterpart. I thought all wikipedia articles had been transformed into wikidata entities (that's what I was told from a guy from wikimedia). The big difference that I see that could be there (in theory, the current situation wasn't like that when I had looked at it some months ago): wikidata is about entities. wikipedia articles are that: articles, they could deal with different (wikidata) entities in the same article. Actually they do, if you look at what in osm is place and admin, the articles often (but not always) refer to both of them, while for wikidata it does always make a difference (IIRR). Like others have said before, for me the problem with wikidata tags at the moment is still, that we don't have particular editor support for them, so that you have to follow the link in order to see what the tag is about and spot possible errors or control what you have just entered yourself. Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Wiki: Key:level: proposed rewrite
The level key is intended for OSM internal use, to tell routing and rendering software what connects to what. For indoor mapping, it would make sense to also have a way to name floors, which needs to allow for both numeric and non-numeric floor names. I have been in buildings that have more than one named floor. For example, one parking garage that I sometimes use has levels named Basement, Ground (ground level on one side of the building), 1 (ground level on the opposite side of the building), 2, 3, 4, and 5. On May 24, 2015 10:18:56 PM Andrew Errington erringt...@gmail.com wrote: It's highly likely that the street level floor would be named 'Ground' - so if software needs to know this, that would be a good starting point. It could also be worked out by which highway meets the street. That's funny. In your previous example no floor is named 'Ground'. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] housenumber on node and area
On 25 May 2015 at 09:14, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2015-05-23 1:56 GMT+02:00 pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com: have a look at these housenumbers, they're 5 and 7 for this side of the building (one big hotel), but the main address is from the main street (front of the buikding) and is different. https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-it/attachments/20150520/465c45fc/attachment-0001.jpg I'm not even sure whether both of these are doors or just one need more info - Google streetview link? Here you are, please also have a look at the opposite side of the road, there is also a building with different housenumbers (because every entrance is assigned a housenumber there, even if it's not an actual entrance but a possible entrance (e.g. at some time in the past there was an entrance)). https://www.google.it/maps/@41.889945,12.498432,3a,75y,295.64h,97.03t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sFHbNr6r2HbfpCK-bhCoVRQ!2e0!6m1!1e1?hl=en Please also note that there aren't necessarily letterboxes, rather the opposite, there won't be a letterbox if it is a lateral entrance (or even window) which is not used as an entrance. Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging CONGRATULATIONS ! You win the award for the best puzzle of the year! It appears to be a loose numbering system for identifying entrances rather than properties. On that street, 8 and 10 are the same property, it appears - but more interestingly, at the back of the hotel, there are about 4 entrances all numbered 2 and two entrances not numbered at all. What did you have in mind you wanted to do with those ? -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Wiki: Key:level: proposed rewrite
2015-05-25 16:44 GMT+02:00 Colin Smale colin.sm...@xs4all.nl: The ele tag specifically refers to the height above sea level. What we would want here is a height above ambient ground level. Overloading ele in this way would lead to untold confusion and be a recipe for disaster. yes (//nit-pick on: actually it is height in wgs84, to have a universal system for the globe, in practise we'll often have numbers that people read of a sign, and those are rarely in wgs84 but in a national height reference system (typically they use a height reference referring to the medium sea level for a given point of a sea relatively close to them //nit-pick off) In architecture you usually have the elevation of the finished ground floor (or raw, but the finished one is easier for mappers, or a given point on the road in front) at a given point (can be the main room, but can also be a point after the entrance, will depend on the situation / complexity of the building) referenced to the absolute height reference system. This will then be considered ±0,00 and everything else can be expressed as relative height refering to this local zero-point. IMHO we should do it similarly (at least in the editor, if there was perfect editor (and db) support for 3D it might also make sense to have everything in absolute heights and people could see local heights refering to arbitrary points they choose). Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Deprecating wikipedia Tag
On 25/05/2015, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2015-05-25 16:24 GMT+02:00 moltonel 3x Combo molto...@gmail.com: Also, a lot of wikipedia articles do not (yet) have a wikidata counterpart. I thought all wikipedia articles had been transformed into wikidata entities (that's what I was told from a guy from wikimedia). The big difference that I see that could be there (in theory, the current situation wasn't like that when I had looked at it some months ago): wikidata is about entities. wikipedia articles are that: articles, they could deal with different (wikidata) entities in the same article. Actually they do, if you look at what in osm is place and admin, the articles often (but not always) refer to both of them, while for wikidata it does always make a difference (IIRR). I admit not knowing wikidata that well, so the following might be misinformed : There can't be a mapping from every wikipedia article to a corresponding wikidata id. Where in wikidata would you link all the wikipedia List of Foo articles for example ? And if I'm creating a new article for that restaurant I like, how does the corresponding wikidata object get created and linked ? Automatically creating wikipedia articles out of wikidata objects shouldn't be too hard. The reverse seems unlikely. As far as I understand, wikidata will always be playing catch-up to wikipedia, to some extent. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Deprecating wikipedia Tag
Hi, * Thorsten Alge li...@thorsten-alge.de [150525 15:24]: Having the wikidata-tag enables an application to select the wikipedia-article in the language of the users choice or to easily load additional information from wikidata like a cities crest for displaying. The advantage would be that a user wouldn't get the German article because its a German object but the article in his preferred language. well, due to Wikipedias interlanguage links, that's equally possible with Wikipedia links. That's why our Wiki suggests to add only one language version of the Wikipedia link and not multiple links. As far as I can see Wikipedia articles usually link to the corresponding Wikidata entry, so any application could get the same information regardless of us providing a Wikipedia or a Wikidata link in the OSM database. Wolfgang ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Wiki: Key:level: proposed rewrite
The ele tag specifically refers to the height above sea level. What we would want here is a height above ambient ground level. Overloading ele in this way would lead to untold confusion and be a recipe for disaster. //colin On 2015-05-25 15:29, pmailkeey . wrote: On 25 May 2015 at 14:08, Andrew Errington erringt...@gmail.com wrote: On 25/05/2015, pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: The floor level *order* will be clear from the ele(vation) tag, won't it. No. Since when has the ele=* tag been used for floors in a building? What other tag do you propose to indicate vertical position then ? Why would we need another tag when ele fits this purpose? -- Mike. @millomweb [2] - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via THE AREA'S PREMIER WEBSITE - CURRENTLY UNAVAILABLE DUE TO ONGOING HARASSMENT OF ME, MY FAMILY, PROPERTY PETS TCs [3] ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging [1] Links: -- [1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging [2] https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction [3] https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
Well, this discussion could go on forever and I need a tag. For the time being, I'm using the following tagging until something more definite is decided amenity=charging_station fee=no access=public socket:USB=yes socket:typeb=yes motor_vehicle=no There are currently only 7 socket:typeb=* in the world including the 6 I just added and a similar number of socket:USB=* What we decide here will possibly have an influence on future tagging. I believe the tags I used are generic enough to serve that purpose. I added motor_vehicle=no to indicate that motorists shouldn't be using these places to charge a vehicle's batteries. On Mon, May 25, 2015 at 4:42 AM, Andreas Goss andi...@t-online.de wrote: If you have a flat battery in your phone/laptop and want to charge it .. it is usefull to know where a public power socket is available. And then is HAS TO BE on opentreetmap.org? A charing app or map is not good enough? __ openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Wiki: Key:level: proposed rewrite
On 25 May 2015 at 15:44, Colin Smale colin.sm...@xs4all.nl wrote: The ele tag specifically refers to the height above sea level. What we would want here is a height above ambient ground level. Overloading ele in this way would lead to untold confusion and be a recipe for disaster. //colin Also knowing the street elevation would give the clue as to which floor was 'ground level' - as would a highway linking internal routes to external. Ele would at least tie in with 3D mapping whereas positional info is lost with 'level=' -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Pet Relief Areas
We'll be moving on to 'dog parks' next. That's places to park your dog (outside) while you visit a shop, for instance. It seems they do this in Rome - for a start. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Deprecating wikipedia Tag
Well thats a good point. But in my opinion thats where the editor should support the mapper and load the Description from Wikidata and maybe a list of available languages for wikipedia articles. I think a lot of us mappers are going to need a lot of convincing, wikipedia tags, in common with other osm tags, are human readable. When reviewing changes I do not see a number that is meaningless without following the link, and even then the wikidata page looks pretty meaningless. Phil (trigpoint ) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Water featuers
2015-05-25 17:11 GMT+02:00 Richard ricoz@gmail.com: [water=cascade] still weasel enough. Could be a single waterfall, a series of them or this: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldau-Kaskade fountain_type=cascade should make the object clear if you'd want to be more specific: start_date=1500-1600 -- https://www.pinterest.com/pin/305189312221270405/ start_date=1992 might look like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fountains_in_Paris#/media/File:Parc_Andr%C3%A9_Citroen_-_Ballon_%283%29.JPG cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Deprecating wikipedia Tag
On 2015-05-25 15:29, Marc Gemis wrote : On Mon, May 25, 2015 at 3:08 PM, André Pirard a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com mailto:a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com wrote: I already replied that I wonder what's the idea behind that enforcement. Why wouldn't Wikidata be used also rather than instead? Is it really a goal of OSM insisting to destroy Wikipedia? So when people stop linking to Wikipedia, Wikipedia will be destroyed ? Or do I miss something here ? It's better understood with the full quote, Marc ... On 2015-05-25 15:08, André Pirard wrote : On 25 May 2015 at 13:18, Thorsten Alge li...@thorsten-alge.de wrote: Since wikidata will be the center of all Wikimedia wikis it might be better to link to wikidata items instead of wikipedia article. Thats why I wonder what you think of deprecating the wikipedia tags (NOT DELETING any of them) and focus on wikidata tags I already replied that I wonder what's the idea behind that enforcement. Why wouldn't Wikidata be used also rather than instead? Is it really a goal of OSM insisting to destroy Wikipedia? That suggestion sounds to me as bizarre as wanting to replace English with French. Everybody be happy, The question is not people stopping linking to Wikipedia, it is commanding them to do so. deprecating Wikipedia for OSM is causing the destruction of its OSM usage. Should Wikipedia become less interesting, the deprecation will happen by itself. André. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Wiki: Key:level: proposed rewrite
On 5/25/15 1:20 PM, John Eldredge wrote: The level key is intended for OSM internal use, to tell routing and rendering software what connects to what. For indoor mapping, it would make sense to also have a way to name floors, which needs to allow for both numeric and non-numeric floor names. I have been in buildings that have more than one named floor. For example, one parking garage that I sometimes use has levels named Basement, Ground (ground level on one side of the building), 1 (ground level on the opposite side of the building), 2, 3, 4, and 5. quick example from downtown albany - the old Omni office building has B (basement), L (lobby), 1 through 12, P1 P2 (penthouse 1 2) the level key is very much internal and if indoor mapping ever is going to go anywhere, some provision for the names is important. richard -- rwe...@averillpark.net Averill Park Networking - GIS IT Consulting OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux Java - Web Applications - Search signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Deprecating wikipedia Tag
On 25 May 2015 at 17:13, moltonel 3x Combo molto...@gmail.com wrote: * wikipedia names are friendlyer to mappers, and generally more well-known Wikidata labels should be more useful, contain less redundancy, and be no less well-known. For example, High Street rather than High Street, Birmingham * wikidata objects don't necessarily exist for all wikipedia articles we want to use Apart from newly created Wikipedia articles, with a Wikidata item not far behind, the reverse is true. * For data consumers wanting to show the wikipedia article (by far the most common usecase), using the wikipedia tag is much more straightforward than using the wikidata tag Except when the Wikipedia article has been moved and the old name reused. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Wiki: Key:level: proposed rewrite
The ele tag is for indicating the elevation of an object above sea level. Not many people will know the elevation of each of a building's floors above sea level. On May 25, 2015 8:30:26 AM pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: On 25 May 2015 at 14:08, Andrew Errington erringt...@gmail.com wrote: On 25/05/2015, pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: The floor level *order* will be clear from the ele(vation) tag, won't it. No. Since when has the ele=* tag been used for floors in a building? What other tag do you propose to indicate vertical position then ? Why would we need another tag when ele fits this purpose? -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail -- ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Deprecating wikipedia Tag
On 25/05/2015 19:14, moltonel 3x Combo wrote: Can you just show me a single Wikipedia entry without a Wikidata object. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_map_projections Ok, maybe that one doesn't count because it's kind of metadata that doesn't belong in wikidata. https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4434286 -- Steve --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Deprecating wikipedia Tag
On 25 May 2015 at 17:32, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: I thought all wikipedia articles had been transformed into wikidata entities (that's what I was told from a guy from wikimedia). He was correct. The big difference that I see that could be there (in theory, the current situation wasn't like that when I had looked at it some months ago): wikidata is about entities. wikipedia articles are that: articles, they could deal with different (wikidata) entities in the same article. Then we also create a Wikidata item for the higher-level concept (Bonnie and Clyde being the popular example). Like others have said before, for me the problem with wikidata tags at the moment is still, that we don't have particular editor support for them, so that you have to follow the link in order to see what the tag is about and spot possible errors or control what you have just entered yourself. That seems to be a chicken-and-egg problem. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Wiki: Key:level: proposed rewrite
Yes, I object. The purpose of the level tag is to tell routing and rendering software what the vertical order of objects is. It indicates what connects to what, and, if they don't connect, what renders above what. It is not intended to hold floor names. On May 24, 2015 6:42:03 PM pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: Any objection if I 'rewrite http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:level ? It seems to have been written with the misconception that floor names are numbers when they're not. A rewrite: - Won't affect existing names that appear as numbers. - Will encourage mappers to use correct names for floors (as found in the building) rather than attempt to convert them to meaningless numbers. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail -- ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Deprecating wikipedia Tag
pon, 25. svi 2015. 18:57 moltonel 3x Combo molto...@gmail.com je napisao: Automatically creating wikipedia articles out of wikidata objects shouldn't be too hard. The reverse seems unlikely. As far as I understand, wikidata will always be playing catch-up to wikipedia, to some extent. Creating a wikidata object out of a wikipedia article is a non issue. You just get an object with no attributes, only a link to the article. Even articles like Wikipedia disambiguation pages have wikidata objects: http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1637547 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Deprecating wikipedia Tag
On 25 May 2015 at 19:14, moltonel 3x Combo molto...@gmail.com wrote: Can you just show me a single Wikipedia entry without a Wikidata object. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_map_projections Ok, maybe that one doesn't count because it's kind of metadata that doesn't belong in wikidata. No, it doesn't count because the corresponding Wikidata item is: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4434286 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Campagne_(restaurant)action=history https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q15207004action=history Hum, 2 months lag between data and pedia. Technically it proves my point about the lag No it doesn't. That is from 2013, when Wikidata was new Try a more recent item. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Whiddy_Island_Disasteraction=history https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q780440action=history 3.5 years is worse That Wikipedia article was created in January 2009. Wikidata launched on 30 October 2012. The Wikidata item was created in December 2012 . No time to look for more right now. Didn't find wikidata links on the wikipedia articles, it would have made search faster. In the standard desktop view, it's under Wikdiata item, in the left-hand menu. If, instead of asking rhetoric questions, you can shed light on some inner workings of wikidata that garanties that all OSM-worthy objects with a wikipedia article will also have a wikidata item (and vice-versa), I'd be happy to forget about that imagined downside of wikidata compared to wikipedia. Not all OSM worthy objects will have a Wikdiata item; but then not all Wikidata worthy items will have a Wikipedia article. Why would they? -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Pet Relief Areas
On 25 May 2015 at 19:32, John Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: In the USA, a dog park is an area of a public park, often enclosed by a fence, where you are allowed to play with your dog off-leash. In other sections of the park, or in an entire park if no section is designated as a dog park, you are likely to be cited and fined for letting your dog run free. On May 25, 2015 10:56:55 AM pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: We'll be moving on to 'dog parks' next. That's places to park your dog (outside) while you visit a shop, for instance. It seems they do this in Rome - for a start. A couple of examples for dog parks (place to park your dog): http://static.turistipercaso.it/image/s/sardegna/sardegna_5yv6e.T0.jpg http://aprireunbar.com/wp-content/uploads/foto-73.jpg It's a good job we can use different icons ! P with a dog v a greened area with icon showing 2 dogs playing. Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Deprecating wikipedia Tag
On 25/05/2015, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote: On 25 May 2015 at 17:13, moltonel 3x Combo molto...@gmail.com wrote: * wikipedia names are friendlyer to mappers, and generally more well-known Wikidata labels should be more useful, contain less redundancy, and be no less well-known. For example, High Street rather than High Street, Birmingham How do you link to a wikidata label in an OSM tag ? One that never suffers from renaming ? As far as I know, we can/should only use wikidata ids, which are stable but not user friendly. * wikidata objects don't necessarily exist for all wikipedia articles we want to use Apart from newly created Wikipedia articles, with a Wikidata item not far behind, the reverse is true. Thanks to all who countered my examples. I see now that, even if wikidata may lag a bit (any stats to define a bit ?), there should be a wikidata item for every wikipedia article. * For data consumers wanting to show the wikipedia article (by far the most common usecase), using the wikipedia tag is much more straightforward than using the wikidata tag Except when the Wikipedia article has been moved and the old name reused. I had also mentioned rename issues. Why leave that sentense out of the quote and then restate it ? Of course ignoring renames and not taking advantage of the API to find the translated article is a bad thing, and no consumers should do that... But in the real world, most consumers will use the wikipedia tag instead. Because it's obvious, and because a simple regexp-replace will give you the url to forward the user to, instead of having to query so wikidata REST api. And when those consumers eventually encounter an OSM object that has a wikipedia tag but not wikidata, they'll display nothing. Which is why we should keep wikipedia tags (along with the human-friendly IDs). And when both wikipedia and wikidata tags are present, we can QA that they are in sync (just like we currently QA that website an wikipedia are not 404). Speaking of stable ids, how does wikidata handle renames, merges and splits on the wikipedia side ? Even in the best-case scenario, it seems that an OSM wikidata tag can drift off-target following reorganisations that are correct from a wikimedia POV but not from an OSM POV. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Deprecating wikipedia Tag
On 25/05/2015, Andreas Goss andi...@t-online.de wrote: ikidata will always be playing catch-up to wikipedia, to some extent. Can you just show me a single Wikipedia entry without a Wikidata object. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_map_projections Ok, maybe that one doesn't count because it's kind of metadata that doesn't belong in wikidata. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Campagne_(restaurant)action=history https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q15207004action=history Hum, 2 months lag between data and pedia. Technically it proves my point about the lag, but it isn't too bad. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Whiddy_Island_Disasteraction=history https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q780440action=history 3.5 years is worse, but maybe the import-from-pedia bot wasn't active until recently ? No time to look for more right now. Didn't find wikidata links on the wikipedia articles, it would have made search faster. I admit the lag is fairly short, and many pedia article that I didn't expect to find in wikidata were in fact there. Your confidence in wikidata indicates that you know it well, which I've stated is not my case. If, instead of asking rhetoric questions, you can shed light on some inner workings of wikidata that garanties that all OSM-worthy objects with a wikipedia article will also have a wikidata item (and vice-versa), I'd be happy to forget about that imagined downside of wikidata compared to wikipedia. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Deprecating wikipedia Tag
I'm not shure what it way you wanted to prove with these links. All of these articles have wikidata items linked to them. All new articles get wikidata items short after creation. Have a look in the left sidebar. Since wikipedia migrated the interwikilinks (the link which are connecting the article in language a of something to all other articles in a different language about that same topic) it is where you get links to articles in all available language. On 2015-05-25 20:14, moltonel 3x Combo wrote: On 25/05/2015, Andreas Goss andi...@t-online.de wrote: ikidata will always be playing catch-up to wikipedia, to some extent. Can you just show me a single Wikipedia entry without a Wikidata object. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_map_projections Ok, maybe that one doesn't count because it's kind of metadata that doesn't belong in wikidata. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Campagne_(restaurant)action=history https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q15207004action=history Hum, 2 months lag between data and pedia. Technically it proves my point about the lag, but it isn't too bad. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Whiddy_Island_Disasteraction=history https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q780440action=history 3.5 years is worse, but maybe the import-from-pedia bot wasn't active until recently ? No time to look for more right now. Didn't find wikidata links on the wikipedia articles, it would have made search faster. I admit the lag is fairly short, and many pedia article that I didn't expect to find in wikidata were in fact there. Your confidence in wikidata indicates that you know it well, which I've stated is not my case. If, instead of asking rhetoric questions, you can shed light on some inner workings of wikidata that garanties that all OSM-worthy objects with a wikipedia article will also have a wikidata item (and vice-versa), I'd be happy to forget about that imagined downside of wikidata compared to wikipedia. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Pet Relief Areas
In the USA, a dog park is an area of a public park, often enclosed by a fence, where you are allowed to play with your dog off-leash. In other sections of the park, or in an entire park if no section is designated as a dog park, you are likely to be cited and fined for letting your dog run free. On May 25, 2015 10:56:55 AM pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: We'll be moving on to 'dog parks' next. That's places to park your dog (outside) while you visit a shop, for instance. It seems they do this in Rome - for a start. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail -- ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Wiki: Key:level: proposed rewrite
I, too, object. level=* is meant to be the numeric stacking order of floors/levels in a building. One redundant tag to level=* is addr:floor=*. This tag currently has the same definition as level=* (with the same numbering convention). I propose that we use addr:floor=* instead for your string level/floor name as that fits better with addressing schemes. On Mon, May 25, 2015 at 7:41 AM, pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: Any objection if I 'rewrite http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:level ? It seems to have been written with the misconception that floor names are numbers when they're not. A rewrite: - Won't affect existing names that appear as numbers. - Will encourage mappers to use correct names for floors (as found in the building) rather than attempt to convert them to meaningless numbers. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
Right, because there is no reasonable middle ground... On 25/05/2015 10:42 PM, Andreas Goss wrote: If you have a flat battery in your phone/laptop and want to charge it .. it is usefull to know where a public power socket is available. And then is HAS TO BE on opentreetmap.org? A charing app or map is not good enough? Well then ... a shop app or map should be separated from OSM? What is OSM good for .. only one set of things? __ openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Deprecating wikipedia Tag
On 25/05/2015, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote: On 25 May 2015 at 22:18, moltonel 3x Combo molto...@gmail.com wrote: How do you link to a wikidata label in an OSM tag ? One that never suffers from renaming ? As far as I know, we can/should only use wikidata ids, which are stable but not user friendly. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Wikidata I see nothing there that enables using a wikidata label in an OSM tag. The only reference to labels is a javascript library that does the API calls for you, which is a completely different usecase. I had also mentioned rename issues. Why leave that sentense out of the quote and then restate it ? You wrote using the wikipedia tag is much more straightforward than using the wikidata tag (leaving the language and renames issues to more meticulous data consumers); my point apllies to all reusesrs, bnit just the more meticulous. We agree, just a misunderstanding on the wording. All users of the wikipedia tag will have issues with renames. The more meticulous consumers will use the wikidata tag instead, which avoids rename issues. Which is why we should keep wikipedia tags (along with the human-friendly IDs). But as already shown, Wikipedia tags have a higher-rate of link rot. Yes. I'm not saying that wikipedia tags are better. Just that we need to keep them, for better or worse. And when both wikipedia and wikidata tags are present, we can QA that they are in sync (just like we currently QA that website an wikipedia are not 404). Who will do that QA? I know Keepright does, and I'd be surprised if Osmose doesn't. Speaking of stable ids, how does wikidata handle renames, Links from the Wikidata item are updated. Ok, I assumed as much. merges and splits on the wikipedia side ? New bridging items are created. Interesting. Where can I find examples and doc ? Even in the best-case scenario, it seems that an OSM wikidata tag can drift off-target following reorganisations that are correct from a wikimedia POV but not from an OSM POV. Example? An hypothetical example: a hotel that includes a restaurant. OSM uses two objects from the begining, both linked to the single wikidata article that talks about the hotel as a whole. The restaurant later gets spun off as an independent business and get its own wikidata item (either a split or a new one), but OSM still links to the hotel as a whole wikidata item. Does wikidata have some tricks up its sleeve to reliably deal with that kind of problem ? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Airport power and USB stations
On 25/05/2015 10:42 PM, Andreas Goss wrote: If you have a flat battery in your phone/laptop and want to charge it .. it is usefull to know where a public power socket is available. And then is HAS TO BE on opentreetmap.org? A charing app or map is not good enough? Well then ... a shop app or map should be separated from OSM? What is OSM good for .. only one set of things? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Pet Relief Areas
We will need to use different tags for the two concepts, however. On May 25, 2015 3:43:47 PM pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: On 25 May 2015 at 19:32, John Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: In the USA, a dog park is an area of a public park, often enclosed by a fence, where you are allowed to play with your dog off-leash. In other sections of the park, or in an entire park if no section is designated as a dog park, you are likely to be cited and fined for letting your dog run free. On May 25, 2015 10:56:55 AM pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: We'll be moving on to 'dog parks' next. That's places to park your dog (outside) while you visit a shop, for instance. It seems they do this in Rome - for a start. A couple of examples for dog parks (place to park your dog): http://static.turistipercaso.it/image/s/sardegna/sardegna_5yv6e.T0.jpg http://aprireunbar.com/wp-content/uploads/foto-73.jpg It's a good job we can use different icons ! P with a dog v a greened area with icon showing 2 dogs playing. Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail -- ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Wiki: Key:level: proposed rewrite
So if I'm right, it's 1 for changing the wiki page, and 12 (including me) opposed. Janko pon, 25. svi 2015. 20:10 John Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com je napisao: The ele tag is for indicating the elevation of an object above sea level. Not many people will know the elevation of each of a building's floors above sea level. On May 25, 2015 8:30:26 AM pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: On 25 May 2015 at 14:08, Andrew Errington erringt...@gmail.com wrote: On 25/05/2015, pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: The floor level *order* will be clear from the ele(vation) tag, won't it. No. Since when has the ele=* tag been used for floors in a building? What other tag do you propose to indicate vertical position then ? Why would we need another tag when ele fits this purpose? -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Deprecating wikipedia Tag
On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 5:18 AM, moltonel 3x Combo molto...@gmail.com wrote: Speaking of stable ids, how does wikidata handle renames, merges and splits on the wikipedia side ? Even in the best-case scenario, it seems that an OSM wikidata tag can drift off-target following reorganisations that are correct from a wikimedia POV but not from an OSM POV. At least for renames, Wikidata gets automatically updated (and the changes in Wikidata are registered under the user account of the Wikipedian who did the rename). In fact, many Wikipedians have Wikidata edits that they don't realize they did because they have renamed articles. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Deprecating wikipedia Tag
On 25 May 2015 at 22:18, moltonel 3x Combo molto...@gmail.com wrote: How do you link to a wikidata label in an OSM tag ? One that never suffers from renaming ? As far as I know, we can/should only use wikidata ids, which are stable but not user friendly. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Wikidata * For data consumers wanting to show the wikipedia article (by far the most common usecase), using the wikipedia tag is much more straightforward than using the wikidata tag Except when the Wikipedia article has been moved and the old name reused. I had also mentioned rename issues. Why leave that sentense out of the quote and then restate it ? You wrote using the wikipedia tag is much more straightforward than using the wikidata tag (leaving the language and renames issues to more meticulous data consumers); my point apllies to all reusesrs, bnit just the more meticulous. Of course ignoring renames and not taking advantage of the API to find the translated article is a bad thing, and no consumers should do that... But in the real world, most consumers will use the wikipedia tag instead. Because it's obvious, and because a simple regexp-replace will give you the url to forward the user to, instead of having to query so wikidata REST api. And when those consumers eventually encounter an OSM object that has a wikipedia tag but not wikidata, they'll display nothing. Which is why we should keep wikipedia tags (along with the human-friendly IDs). But as already shown, Wikipedia tags have a higher-rate of link rot. And when both wikipedia and wikidata tags are present, we can QA that they are in sync (just like we currently QA that website an wikipedia are not 404). Who will do that QA? Speaking of stable ids, how does wikidata handle renames, Links from the Wikidata item are updated. merges and splits on the wikipedia side ? New bridging items are created. Even in the best-case scenario, it seems that an OSM wikidata tag can drift off-target following reorganisations that are correct from a wikimedia POV but not from an OSM POV. Example? -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Pet Relief Areas
While the names are confusing, the concepts seem to be: 1) Hitching racks for temporarily restraining a dog. 2) A place for unleashed dog play and socialization. 3) Place to obtain dog waste bags. 4) Pet service areas, including a dedicated place for pets to defecate, possibly indoors. This is not just for dogs. Plus 5) Kennels and other pet boarding centers. 6) Shops with food and supplies. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Pet Relief Areas
based on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Animal On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 6:59 AM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: While the names are confusing, the concepts seem to be: 1) Hitching racks for temporarily restraining a dog. no tag yet 2) A place for unleashed dog play and socialization. leisure=dog_park 3) Place to obtain dog waste bags. amenity=vending_machine. vending = excrement_bags 4) Pet service areas, including a dedicated place for pets to defecate, possibly indoors. This is not just for dogs. no tag yet Plus 5) Kennels and other pet boarding centers. amenity=animal_shelter can be specified further 6) Shops with food and supplies. shop=pet ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
