subject:"\[Tagging\] emergency=\*"

Il dom 3 nov 2019, 15:49 Martin Koppenhoefer  ha
scritto:

> what about specific emergency departments, e.g. a gynecological hospital
> which has an emergency department for gynecological emergencies only?
>

How about to mention it as healthcare speciality?

healthcare:speciality
=gynaecology

healthcare:speciality
=emergency_
gynaecology


>
> Cheers Martin
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Re: [Tagging] emergency=no on hospitals is ambiguous

2019-11-03 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer

what about specific emergency departments, e.g. a gynecological hospital which 
has an emergency department for gynecological emergencies only?

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Re: [Tagging] emergency=no on hospitals is ambiguous

Il dom 3 nov 2019, 11:19 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> ha scritto:

> On 03/11/19 18:51, Francesco Ansanelli wrote:
>
> Hello list,
>
> I don't know is anybody wrote about this before, but I have noticed that
> the emergency tag changes meaning on hospitals and the result is weird:
> emergency tag indicate whether an emergency vehicle has access to the
> way/point, but on hospitals his value is about emergency rooms.
> I cannot imagine an hospital that disallowed access to emergency vehicles,
> but the editors by example forgot about this and indicate so...
> To avoid any ambiguity a rename could clarify the situation:
> emergency -> emergency_room
> On every hospital and we can assume emergency=yes on them (it's hard to
> me to imagine a place that is emergency=no btw).
> What do you think?
>
>
> It is not only an 'emergency room' that is required to be suitable for
> emergencies.
> Some 'hospitals' simply cannot deal with emergencies and so emergency=no
> is a good tag for them.
>
> As we all know an emergency vehicle will not pay much attention to stop
> lights etc,
> so if it suits them then emergency=no will not stop them calling into  a
> hospital. But most ambulances will already know of the hospitals capability
> and so they won't be using OSM. It is the people travelling by private
> vehicle who will not be aware of the capabilities that can be caught out.
>
>
Right, but imho it's like the tag dispensing, here in Italy we can
distinguish a pharmacy: Farmacia or parafarmacia using the dispensing flag.
For the hospital we distinguish between ospedale and 'pronto soccorso' if
we use the same tagging of other features this could be misleading...
Anyway if there is general consensus I'll open a ticket on my favourite
editors issue tracker. Cheers

>
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Re: [Tagging] emergency=no on hospitals is ambiguous

2019-11-03 Thread Warin


On 03/11/19 18:51, Francesco Ansanelli wrote:

Hello list,

I don't know is anybody wrote about this before, but I have noticed 
that the emergency tag changes meaning on hospitals and the result is 
weird:
emergency tag indicate whether an emergency vehicle has access to the 
way/point, but on hospitals his value is about emergency rooms.
I cannot imagine an hospital that disallowed access to emergency 
vehicles, but the editors by example forgot about this and indicate so...

To avoid any ambiguity a rename could clarify the situation:
emergency -> emergency_room
On every hospital and we can assume emergency=yes on them (it's hard 
to me to imagine a place that is emergency=no btw).

What do you think?


It is not only an 'emergency room' that is required to be suitable for 
emergencies.
Some 'hospitals' simply cannot deal with emergencies and so emergency=no 
is a good tag for them.


As we all know an emergency vehicle will not pay much attention to stop 
lights etc,
so if it suits them then emergency=no will not stop them calling into  a 
hospital. But most ambulances will already know of the hospitals 
capability and so they won't be using OSM. It is the people travelling 
by private vehicle who will not be aware of the capabilities that can be 
caught out.



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Re: [Tagging] emergency=no on hospitals is ambiguous

Il dom 3 nov 2019, 10:22 Martin Koppenhoefer  ha
scritto:

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> Il giorno 3 nov 2019, alle ore 09:13, Jo  ha scritto:
>
> the confusion is that emergency may refer to rooms, but usually in
> OpenStreetMap it refers to access for emergency vehicles.
>
>
>
> actually emergency is a well defined key for emergency vehicle access AND
> for emergency related features
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:emergency
>

That's the meaning that I'd like to preserve... The problem is:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dhospital

If you know whether or not the hospital in question is equipped to deal
with emergencies - this is called A (accidents and emergencies) in the UK
and ER (emergency room) in the US - then you can add emergency
=* with a value of "yes"
or "no".




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Re: [Tagging] emergency=no on hospitals is ambiguous

2019-11-03 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer



sent from a phone

> Il giorno 3 nov 2019, alle ore 09:13, Jo  ha scritto:
> 
> the confusion is that emergency may refer to rooms, but usually in 
> OpenStreetMap it refers to access for emergency vehicles.


actually emergency is a well defined key for emergency vehicle access AND for 
emergency related features 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:emergency

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Re: [Tagging] emergency=no on hospitals is ambiguous

2019-11-03 Thread Jo

the confusion is that emergency may refer to rooms, but usually in
OpenStreetMap it refers to access for emergency vehicles.

On Sun, Nov 3, 2019 at 8:58 AM Andrew Errington 
wrote:

> We have a local hospital. It is tiny and has no emergency room.
>
> Andrew
>
> On 03/11/2019, Francesco Ansanelli  wrote:
> > Hello list,
> >
> > I don't know is anybody wrote about this before, but I have noticed that
> > the emergency tag changes meaning on hospitals and the result is weird:
> > emergency tag indicate whether an emergency vehicle has access to the
> > way/point, but on hospitals his value is about emergency rooms.
> > I cannot imagine an hospital that disallowed access to emergency
> vehicles,
> > but the editors by example forgot about this and indicate so...
> > To avoid any ambiguity a rename could clarify the situation:
> > emergency -> emergency_room
> > On every hospital and we can assume emergency=yes on them (it's hard to
> me
> > to imagine a place that is emergency=no btw).
> > What do you think?
> > Cheers,
> > Francesco
> >
>
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Re: [Tagging] emergency=no on hospitals is ambiguous

Hi Andrew,

Then you have to put emergency=no according to the wiki... Let me know if
your editor implement it right

Francesco

Il dom 3 nov 2019, 08:58 Andrew Errington  ha scritto:

> We have a local hospital. It is tiny and has no emergency room.
>
> Andrew
>
> On 03/11/2019, Francesco Ansanelli  wrote:
> > Hello list,
> >
> > I don't know is anybody wrote about this before, but I have noticed that
> > the emergency tag changes meaning on hospitals and the result is weird:
> > emergency tag indicate whether an emergency vehicle has access to the
> > way/point, but on hospitals his value is about emergency rooms.
> > I cannot imagine an hospital that disallowed access to emergency
> vehicles,
> > but the editors by example forgot about this and indicate so...
> > To avoid any ambiguity a rename could clarify the situation:
> > emergency -> emergency_room
> > On every hospital and we can assume emergency=yes on them (it's hard to
> me
> > to imagine a place that is emergency=no btw).
> > What do you think?
> > Cheers,
> > Francesco
> >
>
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Re: [Tagging] emergency=no on hospitals is ambiguous

2019-11-03 Thread Andrew Errington

We have a local hospital. It is tiny and has no emergency room.

Andrew

On 03/11/2019, Francesco Ansanelli  wrote:
> Hello list,
>
> I don't know is anybody wrote about this before, but I have noticed that
> the emergency tag changes meaning on hospitals and the result is weird:
> emergency tag indicate whether an emergency vehicle has access to the
> way/point, but on hospitals his value is about emergency rooms.
> I cannot imagine an hospital that disallowed access to emergency vehicles,
> but the editors by example forgot about this and indicate so...
> To avoid any ambiguity a rename could clarify the situation:
> emergency -> emergency_room
> On every hospital and we can assume emergency=yes on them (it's hard to me
> to imagine a place that is emergency=no btw).
> What do you think?
> Cheers,
> Francesco
>

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[Tagging] emergency=no on hospitals is ambiguous

Hello list,

I don't know is anybody wrote about this before, but I have noticed that
the emergency tag changes meaning on hospitals and the result is weird:
emergency tag indicate whether an emergency vehicle has access to the
way/point, but on hospitals his value is about emergency rooms.
I cannot imagine an hospital that disallowed access to emergency vehicles,
but the editors by example forgot about this and indicate so...
To avoid any ambiguity a rename could clarify the situation:
emergency -> emergency_room
On every hospital and we can assume emergency=yes on them (it's hard to me
to imagine a place that is emergency=no btw).
What do you think?
Cheers,
Francesco
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Re: [Tagging] Emergency vehicle country-specific law

2019-03-07 Thread Sergio Manzi

+1!

On 2019-03-07 19:02, Richard Welty wrote:
> i think OSM should stick to mapping what is legal. first responders
> frequentlhy have permission to ignore the restrictions that apply
> to normal motorists, but they usually have relevant policies that
> probably don't belong in OSM proper and which aren't knowable
> without interviewing the responders in question (and i've
> interviewed a bunch while developing requirements, i have some
> insight into common policies.)
>
> richard



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Re: [Tagging] Emergency vehicle country-specific law

2019-03-07 Thread Richard Welty

On 3/7/19 12:49 PM, OSMDoudou wrote:
> I would expect the police would first re-organize the scene to revert
> circulation.
> 
>  
> 
> If the house on fire is just a few meters in the opposite one-way
> direction, they might go directly, but technically they would break the
> law, if I read the articles correctly.
> 
>  
> 
> So, we should map what it authorized and not authorized under normal
> circumstances, otherwise we map no restriction at all (because the
> policy may always reorganize things in urgent situations).

i think OSM should stick to mapping what is legal. first responders
frequentlhy have permission to ignore the restrictions that apply
to normal motorists, but they usually have relevant policies that
probably don't belong in OSM proper and which aren't knowable
without interviewing the responders in question (and i've
interviewed a bunch while developing requirements, i have some
insight into common policies.)

richard
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Re: [Tagging] Emergency vehicle country-specific law

2019-03-07 Thread OSMDoudou

I would expect the police would first re-organize the scene to revert 
circulation.

 

If the house on fire is just a few meters in the opposite one-way direction, 
they might go directly, but technically they would break the law, if I read the 
articles correctly.

 

So, we should map what it authorized and not authorized under normal 
circumstances, otherwise we map no restriction at all (because the policy may 
always reorganize things in urgent situations).

 

 

From: Martin Koppenhoefer [mailto:dieterdre...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2019 14:23
To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools 
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Emergency vehicle country-specific law

 

 

 

Am Mi., 6. März 2019 um 14:16 Uhr schrieb Marc Gemis mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com> >:

On Sat, Mar 2, 2019 at 11:52 AM OSMDoudou
<19b350d2-b1b3-4edb-ad96-288ea1238...@gmx.com 
<mailto:19b350d2-b1b3-4edb-ad96-288ea1238...@gmx.com> > wrote:

If there was an explosion due to a gas leak and the road is blocked by
debris, I guess they can go in the opposite direction of a one-way
street as well.

 

 

I don't know the Belgian law, but in cases like these it is likely there will 
be police at the scene and will temporarily organize the traffic as required. 
Policemen everywhere (?) are higher ranked than road markings and street signs. 
;-)

 

If you need to infract some traffic regulations in order to save lifes, there 
might be exceptions or even obligations. 

 

Cheers,

Martin

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Re: [Tagging] Emergency vehicle country-specific law

2019-03-07 Thread Tony Shield


Fire fighting foam needs to be mixed with water.

On 07/03/2019 14:24, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:


sent from a phone


On 7. Mar 2019, at 14:39, Richard Welty  wrote:

there are other examples. for example, the Chief of the Port
Henry department in upstate NY oversees a district that
is adjacent to Lake Champlaign, so you would think he has
a big enough water source. but the RR tracks running down his
side of the lake frequently carry huge trains loaded with
light crude oil. if one derails and catches fire, he can't
get to the lake.


AFAIK you should not try to extinguish burning petrol or oil with water, 
because it will distribute the fire over a larger area, but will not stop it. 
You could dig trenches or use different extinguishing substances.

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Re: [Tagging] Emergency vehicle country-specific law

2019-03-07 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer



sent from a phone

> On 7. Mar 2019, at 14:39, Richard Welty  wrote:
> 
> there are other examples. for example, the Chief of the Port
> Henry department in upstate NY oversees a district that
> is adjacent to Lake Champlaign, so you would think he has
> a big enough water source. but the RR tracks running down his
> side of the lake frequently carry huge trains loaded with
> light crude oil. if one derails and catches fire, he can't
> get to the lake.


AFAIK you should not try to extinguish burning petrol or oil with water, 
because it will distribute the fire over a larger area, but will not stop it. 
You could dig trenches or use different extinguishing substances.

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Re: [Tagging] Emergency vehicle country-specific law

2019-03-07 Thread Richard Welty

On 3/6/19 5:17 PM, Jarek Piórkowski wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Mar 2019 at 16:29, Richard Welty  wrote:
>> i spent some time looking at a project to build OSM based
>> emergency maps. i concluded we needed to do layers of
>> information, some of which were appropriate to host in
>> OSM and others which were not. there would have been a
>> program to conflate the data to produce an OSMAnd or similar
>> data file that met the department needs but avoided
>> dumping inappropriate data into OSM.
> 
> Out of curiosity, if you don't mind/can share - what was not
> appropriate for OSM? Internal preferences or policies ("prefer to go
> down 1st rather than 2nd even though both look the same" - if only so
> drivers don't have to make that decision every time separately) or
> something else/more?

mostly, policy things like that. a lot of the things that FDs care
about are local policy rather than local regulations. if we stick to
the classical OSM theory that we map things that are observable
(which is something that is not fully honored of course) then
local policies are something a mapper on the ground can't see
unless they interview firefighters (which i've done a bit of.)

there are other examples. for example, the Chief of the Port
Henry department in upstate NY oversees a district that
is adjacent to Lake Champlaign, so you would think he has
a big enough water source. but the RR tracks running down his
side of the lake frequently carry huge trains loaded with
light crude oil. if one derails and catches fire, he can't
get to the lake. so he's been testing water flow of the streams
feeding the lake. that's the sort of data that's you can get
that benefits the FDs, but is not ground observable  in the
usual OSM manner.

a lot of rural FDs have designated landing sites for EMS
helicopters. they're not secrets, you can go to the local
FD and ask about them. but they are generally not marked, so
again, a mapper can't just walk up to them.

in the case of the Albany NY FD, there are streets downtown
that present challenges for some equipment. this matches
roughly with your example. it ends up being things like
if we want to get this piece of equipment to this building,
we need to go the wrong way on this street.

the thing i learned from all the interviews, though,
that is most interesting, is that the firefighers know
their districts, they don't need such aids if they're
responding at home. the value comes in when a company
crosses district borders to assist. this means that
a real tablet OSM app to support emergency services
should be a regional solution to support mutual
assistance calls.

richard
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Re: [Tagging] Emergency vehicle country-specific law

2019-03-06 Thread Jarek Piórkowski

On Wed, 6 Mar 2019 at 16:29, Richard Welty  wrote:
> i spent some time looking at a project to build OSM based
> emergency maps. i concluded we needed to do layers of
> information, some of which were appropriate to host in
> OSM and others which were not. there would have been a
> program to conflate the data to produce an OSMAnd or similar
> data file that met the department needs but avoided
> dumping inappropriate data into OSM.

Out of curiosity, if you don't mind/can share - what was not
appropriate for OSM? Internal preferences or policies ("prefer to go
down 1st rather than 2nd even though both look the same" - if only so
drivers don't have to make that decision every time separately) or
something else/more?

Thanks,
--Jarek

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Re: [Tagging] Emergency vehicle country-specific law

2019-03-06 Thread Richard Welty

> Am Mi., 6. März 2019 um 14:16 Uhr schrieb Marc Gemis
> mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com>>:
> 
> On Sat, Mar 2, 2019 at 11:52 AM OSMDoudou
> <19b350d2-b1b3-4edb-ad96-288ea1238...@gmx.com
> > wrote:
> 
> If there was an explosion due to a gas leak and the road is blocked by
> debris, I guess they can go in the opposite direction of a one-way
> street as well.
> 
> 
from talking to Albany FD firemen, they will go the wrong way if it
facilitates getting equipment to the fire. they prefer not to, but
sometimes they have to.

but there are sometimes other considerations. when FDs respond
out of their district as part of mutual assistance, they may
not know all the local rules.

i spent some time looking at a project to build OSM based
emergency maps. i concluded we needed to do layers of
information, some of which were appropriate to host in
OSM and others which were not. there would have been a
program to conflate the data to produce an OSMAnd or similar
data file that met the department needs but avoided
dumping inappropriate data into OSM.

richard

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Re: [Tagging] Emergency vehicle country-specific law

2019-03-06 Thread Paul Johnson

There's quite a few bridges that are *definitely* access=no, emergency=no
in my area, but are *not* disused.  Might not be physically possible to get
a motor vehicle onto the span and definitely not legal to use the span at
all, but, not all people care about rules.

On Sat, Mar 2, 2019 at 3:43 AM Mateusz Konieczny 
wrote:

>
>
>
> Mar 2, 2019, 10:12 AM by colin.sm...@xs4all.nl:
>
> Boys, this will vary by legal jurisdiction. These comments are valueless
> unless placed in context.
> Here in NL and as far as I know also in the UK, blue lights and sirens in
> your mirror are also no excuse for your own driving by the way, so you must
> not break any rules or otherwise drive dangerously to facilitate the
> emergency vehicle. Is that the same where you are?
> In NL police have a blanket exemption for all traffic rules in the
> execution of their duty. In the UK there is a fixed list of exemptions, and
> driving the wrong way down a one way street is not one of them, for
> example.
>
> In Poland it is accepted to (carefully) break traffic laws to make space
> for the emergency vehicle.
> Not sure what is the legal situation, though not making space for
> ambulance would be treated
> as a criminal stupidity - even if it requires doing something inconvenient
> or breaking traffic law.
>
> Examples that I encountered (and did) include temporary moving to and
> parking on edge
> of road, crossing red light (without moving across crossing), making
> otherwise forbidden
> right turn or U-turn, blocking road for nonemergency vehicles due to
> stopping at green light,
> ignoring markings that forbid changing lanes etc.
>
> All of it done with extra care and certainly without driving dangerously.
>
> AFAIK emergency vehicles are exempt from limitations of traffic law
> (including oneway roads,
> forbidden access roads, speed limits, red lights, forbidden turns)
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Re: [Tagging] Emergency vehicle country-specific law

2019-03-06 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer

Am Mi., 6. März 2019 um 14:16 Uhr schrieb Marc Gemis :

> On Sat, Mar 2, 2019 at 11:52 AM OSMDoudou
> <19b350d2-b1b3-4edb-ad96-288ea1238...@gmx.com> wrote:
>
> If there was an explosion due to a gas leak and the road is blocked by
> debris, I guess they can go in the opposite direction of a one-way
> street as well.

I don't know the Belgian law, but in cases like these it is likely there
will be police at the scene and will temporarily organize the traffic as
required. Policemen everywhere (?) are higher ranked than road markings and
street signs. ;-)

If you need to infract some traffic regulations in order to save lifes,
there might be exceptions or even obligations.

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Emergency vehicle country-specific law

2019-03-06 Thread Marc Gemis

On Sat, Mar 2, 2019 at 11:52 AM OSMDoudou
<19b350d2-b1b3-4edb-ad96-288ea1238...@gmx.com> wrote:
>
> > AFAIK emergency vehicles are exempt from limitations of traffic law 
> > (including oneway roads, forbidden access roads, speed limits, red lights, 
> > forbidden turns)
>
> Belgian law requires they stop at traffic lights and exercise caution. Not 
> only exercise caution, but explicitly stop. Also, they can’t go opposite 
> direction of one-way streets, except motorways.
>

If there was an explosion due to a gas leak and the road is blocked by
debris, I guess they can go in the opposite direction of a one-way
street as well.

m.

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Re: [Tagging] Emergency vehicle country-specific law

2019-03-02 Thread OSMDoudou

> AFAIK emergency vehicles are exempt from limitations of traffic law 
> (including oneway roads, forbidden access roads, speed limits, red lights, 
> forbidden turns)

Belgian law requires they stop at traffic lights and exercise caution. Not only 
exercise caution, but explicitly stop. Also, they can’t go opposite direction 
of one-way streets, except motorways.

So, globally, yes, they have priority, but in the details, it’s more subtle.

French language references:
- https://leblogdumono.be/privileges-vehicules-prioritaires/
- 
http://www.policelocale.be/files/5318/files/downloads/A-propos/Prevention/VAC_2014-03.pdf
- https://www.matele.be/vehicules-prioritaires-meme-code-de-la-route-pour-tous

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Re: [Tagging] Emergency vehicle country-specific law

2019-03-02 Thread Mateusz Konieczny




Mar 2, 2019, 10:12 AM by colin.sm...@xs4all.nl:

> Boys, this will vary by legal jurisdiction. These comments are valueless 
> unless placed in context.
> Here in NL and as far as I know also in the UK,  blue lights and sirens in 
> your mirror are also no excuse for your own driving by the way, so you must 
> not break any rules or otherwise drive dangerously to facilitate the 
> emergency vehicle. Is that the same where you are?
> In NL police have a blanket exemption for all traffic rules in the execution 
> of their duty. In the UK there is a fixed list of exemptions, and driving the 
> wrong way down a one way street is not one of them, for example. 
>
In Poland it is accepted to (carefully) break traffic laws to make space for 
the emergency vehicle.
Not sure what is the legal situation, though not making space for ambulance 
would be treated
as a criminal stupidity - even if it requires doing something inconvenient or 
breaking traffic law.

Examples that I encountered (and did) include temporary moving to and parking 
on edge 
of road, crossing red light (without moving across crossing), making otherwise 
forbidden
right turn or U-turn, blocking road for nonemergency vehicles due to stopping 
at green light,
ignoring markings that forbid changing lanes etc.

All of it done with extra care and certainly without driving dangerously.

AFAIK emergency vehicles are exempt from limitations of traffic law (including 
oneway roads,
forbidden access roads, speed limits, red lights, forbidden turns)
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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

2018-12-10 Thread Mateusz Konieczny


10 Dec 2018, 00:33 by ethnicfoodisgr...@gmail.com
> That is an unrealistic, pie-in-the-sky goal.  As long as mappers are free to 
> use any tag they like, and OSM is a mishmash of tags, how could anyone rely 
> on it for anything very important?
>
In cases where no better data is available.

For example in Poland firefighters use OSM data for routing and geolocation.

Including routing and geolocation during emergencies (112 calls).

As of early 2018 firefighters were not allowed to official road data that in 
addition in many cases has quality lower than OSM.

Also, sole large scale database of fire hydrants is in OSM and it is maintained 
in large part by firefighters.
And for such uses using scheme issues are anyway not a major problem.
Seriously, why free form tagging would be becoming suddenly problem for 
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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

2018-12-10 Thread Sergio Manzi

Just a short note to let you know that in the Italian mailing list (talk-it) we 
recently had the contribution of an ambulance driver who reported how in his 
zone he uses OSM maps as the best solution availabale.

Cheers!

Sergio


On 2018-12-10 13:06, Paul Allen wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 3:29 AM Daniel Koć  > wrote:
>
>
> Good question. And the answer is - don't underestimate how big OSM
> ecosystem is and don't try to limit how is it really used, because you
> would be surprised...
>
>
> Indeed.  Sometimes OSM is better than the alternatives for a particular 
> locality.
>
> Video of presentation from SotM PL 2018 is here (in Polish, maybe some
> translation will be available):
>
> https://youtu.be/etFl6e7Ew00?t=3120
>
>
> One person on this list did a similar SOTM presentation in English back in 
> 2016:
> https://youtu.be/_t5DxV7cXgQ and it's clear that in his part of the world OSM 
> is far better than
> the alternatives.
>
> -- 
> Paul
>


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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

2018-12-10 Thread Paul Allen

On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 3:29 AM Daniel Koć  wrote:

>
> Good question. And the answer is - don't underestimate how big OSM
> ecosystem is and don't try to limit how is it really used, because you
> would be surprised...
>

Indeed.  Sometimes OSM is better than the alternatives for a particular
locality.

Video of presentation from SotM PL 2018 is here (in Polish, maybe some
> translation will be available):
>
> https://youtu.be/etFl6e7Ew00?t=3120
>

One person on this list did a similar SOTM presentation in English back in
2016:
https://youtu.be/_t5DxV7cXgQ and it's clear that in his part of the world
OSM is far better than
the alternatives.

-- 
Paul
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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

2018-12-09 Thread Daniel Koć

W dniu 10.12.2018 o 00:33, EthnicFood IsGreat pisze:
> That is an unrealistic, pie-in-the-sky goal.  As long as mappers are
> free to use any tag they like, and OSM is a mishmash of tags, how
> could anyone rely on it for anything very important?


Good question. And the answer is - don't underestimate how big OSM
ecosystem is and don't try to limit how is it really used, because you
would be surprised...

In Poland we have a  commercial implementation of GIS system in State
Fire Service using OSM data (not exclusively):

https://translate.google.pl/translate?sl=auto=en=http%3A%2F%2Fopenstreetmap.org.pl%2F2013%2Fpanstwowa-straz-pozarna-poznaje-osm%2F

Video of presentation from SotM PL 2018 is here (in Polish, maybe some
translation will be available):

https://youtu.be/etFl6e7Ew00?t=3120


-- 
"Excuse me, I have some growing up to do" [P. Gabriel]



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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

I totally agree on that and, with my limits, I too try doing the same...

Cheers!

Sergio


On 2018-12-10 00:32, Warin wrote:
> On 10/12/18 10:17, Sergio Manzi wrote:
>>
>> I know that there are ones who think that every little detail of the world 
>> should be tagged, but I'm not of that party, and I think that I have the 
>> same right to express my opinion as they do, and no offense should be taken 
>> by neither of the two parties...
>>
>
> While I don't map to that detail, I have no objection to others adding as 
> much as they want.
>
> But... I want them to do it in a though-full ordered structure. Not some mess.
>
> So I would provide a structure they can use ...
>
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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

2018-12-09 Thread Warin


On 10/12/18 10:17, Sergio Manzi wrote:


I know that there are ones who think that every little detail of the 
world should be tagged, but I'm not of that party, and I think that I 
have the same right to express my opinion as they do, and no offense 
should be taken by neither of the two parties...




While I don't map to that detail, I have no objection to others adding 
as much as they want.


But... I want them to do it in a though-full ordered structure. Not some 
mess.


So I would provide a structure they can use ...

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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

Sorry, but I don't think so: office=control_centre could be the control center 
for whatever infrastructure (/unless some more specific tag exists in some 
specific namespace/).

*If* (/and it is a big if of which I'd like to say something later/) we want to 
tag the places where emergency phone calls are handled (/PSAP in north America, 
112 in Europe, etc.../), then we must be specific and define a specific tag for 
those specific places (and /I'm not sure emergency=control_center is a good one 
as it can easily be confounded on a control center handling emergency in case 
of disasters, which is a totally different thing/).

Now about the "big if": I'm sorry if someone will feel touched in its 
sentiments, but I don't think there is any value added in tagging such places, 
beside for the relatively few persons who have a reason, a need, to go there 
(/workers and volunteers, mainly I guess.../).

I know that there are ones who think that every little detail of the world 
should be tagged, but I'm not of that party, and I think that I have the same 
right to express my opinion as they do, and no offense should be taken by 
neither of the two parties...

Cheers,

Sergio

On 2018-12-09 20:56, dktue wrote:
> You're definitely right,
>
>     office=control_centre
>
> seems to be better suited.
>
> Am 09.12.2018 um 20:52 schrieb Mateusz Konieczny:
>> Is there some reason to not use office=* like for other offices?
>>
>>
>> Dec 9, 2018, 4:04 PM by em...@daniel-korn.de:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I would like to propose a tag for emergency control centers (the place 
>> you reach when you call 112 in Europe).
>>
>> My suggestion would be "emergency=control_centre".
>>
>> Cheers,
>> dktue
>>
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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

2018-12-09 Thread Warin


On 10/12/18 07:46, Javier Sánchez Portero wrote:

I answer inline to Paul and Markus

El dom., 9 dic. 2018 a las 15:12, Paul Allen (>) escribió:


On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 3:06 PM dktue mailto:em...@daniel-korn.de>> wrote:


I would like to propose a tag for emergency control centers
(the place
you reach when you call 112 in Europe).


Why?

As far as I know, these are places one contacts via telephone. 
They may be located far from
the locality they serve, even though calls from that locality may
be routed to one particular
control centre.  Are the ones you are familiar with of a kind
where one must walk in to report
an emergency?  Unless they are, it serves no purpose to mark them
on a map.  Unless, perhaps,
one is a terrorist intent upon damaging infrastructure.


I kindly disagree with you. I think this information is important in 
the map as is everything related to emergencies. We can distinguish 
the calling centre and the centre for coordination for emergency 
forces and resources. Usually they are located in the same place.

Well .. that is not the case here.
First the call centre takes calls for the 3 services - ambulance, fire 
(and rescue) and police. The calls are then past to relevant section as 
they are trained in the relevant specialities and have the correct 
contacts.
Of course a ordinary person don't need to know where they are, but for 
a emergency planner these are strategic places into the emergencies 
services that need to be preserved and defended. Of course the 
emergency services should have their own maps and data bases, but I 
think that is our goal to offer the best possible geographic 
information data base for all kind of user and to serve as a valid 
alternative to any government user which want to use it. In addition 
the terrorist, many other people could need to know the location of 
such a place, for example mail and delivery services, taxis, and any 
one who is interested in work in such a place or know how the work 
(school visits). At least in my country these location are publicly 
know through the contact section of their web site. They are also 
verifiable on the on the ground features and as such they have place 
in our database.
Anyone wanting the information can find it and use it  .. even if it is 
under the office key.


Going to a fire or ambo station for assistance is fine. There you find 
people trained in various aspects of emergency assistance and the 
equipment to provide that assistance. It may be quicker to go there than 
call and wait for them to arrive.
Going to a call centre is not so good .. they probably don't have the 
equipment even if they have the training and experience. So I would not 
put them under the key emergency.


Dedicated buildings for ambulances do exist, just as they do for fire 
stations.
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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

2018-12-09 Thread Markus

On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 at 19:56, dktue  wrote:
>
> By the way: We're currently using amenity=fire_station und 
> emergency=ambulance_station -- which is confusing in my opinion.

That's probably because the tag amenity=fire_station is older than
emergency=ambulance_station.

(You could double-tag fire stations amenity=fire_station +
emergency=fire_station. If enough people do the same, maybe one day be
don't need amenity=fire_station any more.)

Regards
Markus

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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

2018-12-09 Thread Javier Sánchez Portero

I answer inline to Paul and Markus

El dom., 9 dic. 2018 a las 15:12, Paul Allen ()
escribió:

> On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 3:06 PM dktue  wrote:
>
>>
>> I would like to propose a tag for emergency control centers (the place
>> you reach when you call 112 in Europe).
>>
>
> Why?
>
> As far as I know, these are places one contacts via telephone.  They may
> be located far from
> the locality they serve, even though calls from that locality may be
> routed to one particular
> control centre.  Are the ones you are familiar with of a kind where one
> must walk in to report
> an emergency?  Unless they are, it serves no purpose to mark them on a
> map.  Unless, perhaps,
> one is a terrorist intent upon damaging infrastructure.
>
>
I kindly disagree with you. I think this information is important in the
map as is everything related to emergencies. We can distinguish the calling
centre and the centre for coordination for emergency forces and resources.
Usually they are located in the same place. Of course a ordinary person
don't need to know where they are, but for a emergency planner these are
strategic places into the emergencies services that need to be preserved
and defended. Of course the emergency services should have their own maps
and data bases, but I think that is our goal to offer the best possible
geographic information data base for all kind of user and to serve as a
valid alternative to any government user which want to use it. In addition
the terrorist, many other people could need to know the location of such a
place, for example mail and delivery services, taxis, and any one who is
interested in work in such a place or know how the work (school visits). At
least in my country these location are publicly know through the contact
section of their web site. They are also verifiable on the on the ground
features and as such they have place in our database.

El dom., 9 dic. 2018 a las 15:51, Markus ()
escribió:

> office=public-safety_answering_point would probably fit better than
> emergency=*. (In an emergency it might not help much to know where the
> public-safety answering point is located.)
>
> Regards
> Markus
>
>
To join together all emergency related stuff into a key seems to me very
logic and important to reach the goal I described previously. It could be
used office=any as main key but emergency = something should be available
to facilitate searchs and grouping.

Regards, Javier
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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre


You're definitely right,

    office=control_centre

seems to be better suited.

Am 09.12.2018 um 20:52 schrieb Mateusz Konieczny:

Is there some reason to not use office=* like for other offices?


Dec 9, 2018, 4:04 PM by em...@daniel-korn.de:

Hello,

I would like to propose a tag for emergency control centers (the
place you reach when you call 112 in Europe).

My suggestion would be "emergency=control_centre".

Cheers,
dktue

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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

2018-12-09 Thread Mateusz Konieczny

Is there some reason to not use office=* like for other offices?


Dec 9, 2018, 4:04 PM by em...@daniel-korn.de:

> Hello,
>
> I would like to propose a tag for emergency control centers (the place you 
> reach when you call 112 in Europe).
>
> My suggestion would be "emergency=control_centre".
>
> Cheers,
> dktue
>
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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

2018-12-09 Thread Mateusz Konieczny

Because building=ambulance_station is for building build as an ambulance 
station, 
no matter what is there now.

Dec 9, 2018, 4:58 PM by em...@daniel-korn.de:

> But why are we using emergency=ambulance_station and not 
> building=ambulance_station?
>
>

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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

2018-12-09 Thread Daniel Koć

W dniu 09.12.2018 o 19:54, dktue pisze:
> By the way: We're currently using amenity=fire_station und
> emergency=ambulance_station -- which is confusing in my opinion.

Maybe it would be good to use emergency=police_station scheme (and maybe
something else for other police-related objects, like headquarter
offices, police schools or vehicle depot).


-- 
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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

By the way: We're currently using amenity=fire_station und 
emergency=ambulance_station -- which is confusing in my opinion.


Am 09.12.2018 um 18:12 schrieb Stefano Maffulli:
On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 8:16 AM Paul Allen > wrote:


Ambulance stations
(like fire stations) are places where people should be aware that
high speed emergency
vehicles may suddenly appear from.


This is a factor but not the main one for using emergency=fire_station 
or ambulance. These amenities and buildings are *resources* that are 
useful during or in the aftermath of disastrous event. The reason why 
I would want to map the building where ambulances and firestations 
with the emergency key, instead of the building or amenities is that 
this information has practical value for disaster preparation and 
response.


This conversation made me realize that the wiki page could use some 
more details on the scope of the emergency key, IMO, to also help mappers.



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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

2018-12-09 Thread Stefano Maffulli

On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 8:16 AM Paul Allen  wrote:

> Ambulance stations
> (like fire stations) are places where people should be aware that high
> speed emergency
> vehicles may suddenly appear from.
>

This is a factor but not the main one for using emergency=fire_station or
ambulance. These amenities and buildings are *resources* that are useful
during or in the aftermath of disastrous event. The reason why I would want
to map the building where ambulances and firestations with the emergency
key, instead of the building or amenities is that this information has
practical value for disaster preparation and response.

This conversation made me realize that the wiki page could use some more
details on the scope of the emergency key, IMO, to also help mappers.
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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

Me too!  :-)

But, as others have already pointed out, I'm really unsure if this kind of 
information is relevant/appropriate here...


On 2018-12-09 17:29, Markus wrote:
> On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 at 17:22, dktue  wrote:
>> I've been convinced that the office-key is a suitable place to put the tag.
> On the other hand, i also understand your logic to put everything
> emergency-related under the emergency=* key. ;-)
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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

2018-12-09 Thread Markus

On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 at 17:22, dktue  wrote:
>
> I've been convinced that the office-key is a suitable place to put the tag.

On the other hand, i also understand your logic to put everything
emergency-related under the emergency=* key. ;-)

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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre


You're definitely right. Good point!

I've been convinced that the office-key is a suitable place to put the tag.

Am 09.12.2018 um 17:15 schrieb Paul Allen:
On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 3:59 PM dktue > wrote:


You're right, indeed. Office would definitely suit better.

But why are we using emergency=ambulance_station and not
building=ambulance_station?


In my experience, people don't come roaring out of houses at 70MPH 
with sirens blaring
and lights flashing.  In my experience, people don't come roaring out 
of offices at 70MPH
with sirens blaring and lights flashing.  However, ambulances may come 
roaring out of
ambulance stations at 70MPH with sirens blaring and lights flashing.  
Ambulance stations
(like fire stations) are places where people should be aware that high 
speed emergency

vehicles may suddenly appear from.

So emergency=ambulance_station is a better fit than 
office=ambulance_station or
building=ambulance_station.  Because there may be emergency traffic.  
The same does

not apply to control centres.

--
Paul


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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

2018-12-09 Thread Paul Allen

On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 3:59 PM dktue  wrote:

> You're right, indeed. Office would definitely suit better.
>
> But why are we using emergency=ambulance_station and not
> building=ambulance_station?
>

In my experience, people don't come roaring out of houses at 70MPH with
sirens blaring
and lights flashing.  In my experience, people don't come roaring out of
offices at 70MPH
with sirens blaring and lights flashing.  However, ambulances may come
roaring out of
ambulance stations at 70MPH with sirens blaring and lights flashing.
Ambulance stations
(like fire stations) are places where people should be aware that high
speed emergency
vehicles may suddenly appear from.

So emergency=ambulance_station is a better fit than
office=ambulance_station or
building=ambulance_station.  Because there may be emergency traffic.  The
same does
not apply to control centres.

-- 
Paul
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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

Knowing where to find an ambulance (/the nearest one.../) is, I think, of more 
general interest than knowing where emergency calls are handled.

About "/amenity/"... please don't get me started on that: I have a profound 
hate for the term and in the particular case when you need an ambulance, I 
don't hink you could consider that an... amenity.

Cheers!


On 2018-12-09 17:06, dktue wrote:
> You're right! But amenity=ambulance_station could be used. The point I tried 
> to make was: Why are we using the emergency-key in that case at all.
>
> Am 09.12.2018 um 17:01 schrieb Sergio Manzi:
>>
>> Maybe because not all (/probably few.../) ambulance stations occupy an 
>> entire building?
>>
>> On 2018-12-09 16:58, dktue wrote:
>>> But why are we using emergency=ambulance_station and not 
>>> building=ambulance_station?
>>
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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

You're right! But amenity=ambulance_station could be used. The point I 
tried to make was: Why are we using the emergency-key in that case at all.


Am 09.12.2018 um 17:01 schrieb Sergio Manzi:


Maybe because not all (/probably few.../) ambulance stations occupy an 
entire building?


On 2018-12-09 16:58, dktue wrote:
But why are we using emergency=ambulance_station and not 
building=ambulance_station?


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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

Maybe because not all (/probably few.../) ambulance stations occupy an entire 
building?

On 2018-12-09 16:58, dktue wrote:
> But why are we using emergency=ambulance_station and not 
> building=ambulance_station?


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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre


You're right, indeed. Office would definitely suit better.

But why are we using emergency=ambulance_station and not 
building=ambulance_station?


If we're doing so to make a grouping about emergency-related facilities, 
then we should go with an emergency-tag.


Am 09.12.2018 um 16:50 schrieb Markus:

office=public-safety_answering_point would probably fit better than
emergency=*. (In an emergency it might not help much to know where the
public-safety answering point is located.)

Regards
Markus

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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

2018-12-09 Thread Markus

office=public-safety_answering_point would probably fit better than
emergency=*. (In an emergency it might not help much to know where the
public-safety answering point is located.)

Regards
Markus

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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

2018-12-09 Thread Tod Fitch

> On Dec 9, 2018, at 7:11 AM, Paul Allen  wrote:
> 
> On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 3:06 PM dktue  > wrote:
> 
> I would like to propose a tag for emergency control centers (the place
> you reach when you call 112 in Europe).
> 
> Why?
> 
> As far as I know, these are places one contacts via telephone.  They may be 
> located far from
> the locality they serve, even though calls from that locality may be routed 
> to one particular
> control centre.  Are the ones you are familiar with of a kind where one must 
> walk in to report
> an emergency?  Unless they are, it serves no purpose to mark them on a map.  
> Unless, perhaps,
> one is a terrorist intent upon damaging infrastructure.
> 
> --
> Paul
> 

In North America they are called PSAP (Public Safety Answering Point). [1]

But I agree that there does not seem to be a driving reason to map them as the 
physical location is not relevant for their use.

And I don’t believe that they are a “control center”. More of a communication 
center. If it is a “normal” emergency, the police/fire/medical will have their 
own operations center, probably separate from the “answering point” that 
oversees the personnel dispatched, etc. If it becomes a big incident, then 
there will be a “Incident Command Post” (ICP) setup to handle the situation and 
the ICP will vary from incident to incident and could be anywhere.

Cheers!

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_safety_answering_point

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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

2018-12-09 Thread Paul Allen

On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 3:06 PM dktue  wrote:

>
> I would like to propose a tag for emergency control centers (the place
> you reach when you call 112 in Europe).
>

Why?

As far as I know, these are places one contacts via telephone.  They may be
located far from
the locality they serve, even though calls from that locality may be routed
to one particular
control centre.  Are the ones you are familiar with of a kind where one
must walk in to report
an emergency?  Unless they are, it serves no purpose to mark them on a
map.  Unless, perhaps,
one is a terrorist intent upon damaging infrastructure.

-- 
Paul
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[Tagging] emergency=control_centre


Hello,

I would like to propose a tag for emergency control centers (the place 
you reach when you call 112 in Europe).


My suggestion would be "emergency=control_centre".

Cheers,
dktue

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Re: [Tagging] Emergency=levee_breach_materials

2018-09-24 Thread John Willis

> On Sep 24, 2018, at 6:55 AM, Joseph Eisenberg  
> wrote:
> 
> Piles of sand could also be used for flood control (eg to fill sandbags)

Are there permanent mappable locations for such materials - materials 
purposefully set aside for a single purpose? 

I always think of sandbags as a make-shift solution, and sand as a generic 
building material. 

but if there is some permanent stockpile set aside for flood control in other 
countries, perhaps “flood_control_materials” is a good tag value. 

javbw

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Re: [Tagging] Emergency=levee_breach_materials

2018-09-23 Thread Joseph Eisenberg

CMF
BJ
G
On Mon, Sep 24, 2018 at 6:55 AM Joseph Eisenberg 
wrote:

> Good idea. It would be nice if these stockpiles of materials could all be
> tagged in a similar way. Piles of sand could also be used for flood control
> (eg to fill sandbags), while minds gravel and rocks could be used to repair
> roads, dikes, and so on.
>
> BTW, I believe the British English term is “dike” instead of “levee”
> On Mon, Sep 24, 2018 at 3:24 AM John Willis  wrote:
>
>>
>> > On Sep 23, 2018, at 6:33 AM, Anton Klim  wrote:
>> >
>> > not levee_repair?
>>
>> Hmm - no one at that location repairs levees. It is a station just to
>> store blocks.
>>
>> I just want it to be unambiguous.
>>
>> Like the difference between car repair and car parking
>>
>> Even then, levee_repair might be good enough.
>>
>> I know there are gravel and salt (bunkers?) Along the sides of roads -
>> I'll have to see how they are tagged.
>>
>> Javbw.
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Tagging] Emergency=levee_breach_materials

2018-09-23 Thread Joseph Eisenberg

Good idea. It would be nice if these stockpiles of materials could all be
tagged in a similar way. Piles of sand could also be used for flood control
(eg to fill sandbags), while minds gravel and rocks could be used to repair
roads, dikes, and so on.

BTW, I believe the British English term is “dike” instead of “levee”
On Mon, Sep 24, 2018 at 3:24 AM John Willis  wrote:

>
> > On Sep 23, 2018, at 6:33 AM, Anton Klim  wrote:
> >
> > not levee_repair?
>
> Hmm - no one at that location repairs levees. It is a station just to
> store blocks.
>
> I just want it to be unambiguous.
>
> Like the difference between car repair and car parking
>
> Even then, levee_repair might be good enough.
>
> I know there are gravel and salt (bunkers?) Along the sides of roads -
> I'll have to see how they are tagged.
>
> Javbw.
>
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Emergency=levee_breach_materials

2018-09-23 Thread John Willis

> On Sep 23, 2018, at 6:33 AM, Anton Klim  wrote:
> 
> not levee_repair? 

Hmm - no one at that location repairs levees. It is a station just to store 
blocks. 

I just want it to be unambiguous. 

Like the difference between car repair and car parking

Even then, levee_repair might be good enough. 

I know there are gravel and salt (bunkers?) Along the sides of roads - I'll 
have to see how they are tagged. 

Javbw. 

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Re: [Tagging] Emergency=levee_breach_materials

2018-09-22 Thread Anton Klim

Why not levee_repair?
Good to know they have a name and a list

2018-09-22 9:12 GMT+01:00 John Willis :

>
>
> On Sep 21, 2018, at 4:09 PM, Anton Klim  wrote:
>
> Do these have anything to identify them, like a ref?
>
>
> I found a sign cycling today.
>
> 奥戸防災ステーション
>
> Okudo (village) "Disaster prevention station"
>
> The "river" is implied - "river disaster prevention station" is a huge
> mouthful.
>
> The government has a PDF listing of a hundred of them and their addresses.
> These might be the very large stations with a highground and a helipad, not
> just a cache of breakwater blocks and gravel.
>
> I will investigate further, but levee_breach_materials might be the most
> flexible for uses elsewhere.
>
> http://www.mlit.go.jp/river/toukei_chousa/kasen_db/pdf/2018/4-2-3.pdf
>
>
> Javbw
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Emergency=levee_breach_materials

2018-09-22 Thread John Willis

> On Sep 21, 2018, at 4:09 PM, Anton Klim  wrote:
> 
> Do these have anything to identify them, like a ref?

I found a sign cycling today. 

奥戸防災ステーション

Okudo (village) "Disaster prevention station" 

The "river" is implied - "river disaster prevention station" is a huge 
mouthful. 

The government has a PDF listing of a hundred of them and their addresses. 
These might be the very large stations with a highground and a helipad, not 
just a cache of breakwater blocks and gravel. 

I will investigate further, but levee_breach_materials might be the most 
flexible for uses elsewhere. 

http://www.mlit.go.jp/river/toukei_chousa/kasen_db/pdf/2018/4-2-3.pdf

Javbw 

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Re: [Tagging] Emergency=levee_breach_materials

2018-09-21 Thread John Willis

> On Sep 21, 2018, at 4:09 PM, Anton Klim wrote:
>
> Do these have anything to identify them, like a ref

I cannot find an official name or ref - but I can see their purpose.

The next time I am on a cycling survey, I will take a picture of any small
plaques they usually put somewhere on a man_made construction.

I haven’t been able to find any sign onsite or web site explaining them - they
are for someone with access to big (military) helicopters, so there is
little-to-no public facing information at the sites themselves - but somewhere
someone has a PDF with all the locations marked and ref'ed.

I imagine it is not important to map them, but since I know what they are, I’d
like to do it.

All the signs tell people not to dump garbage, and one that says that the
public parking lot is an emergency=assembly_point, but that is not present at
the others - most are just stacks and stacks of blocks fenced in, waiting for a
helicopter year after year. Some of the areas are very small - 100m2 - but the
contents are just breakwater blocks surrounded by a fence, and they are stored
adjacent to the levee - so there is only one purpose they could serve. you
usually only see these kind of blocks near the ocean, protecting coastlines and
and stacked into breakwaters.

all of the permanent levee protection is poured concrete and boulders, so they
are not normal building materials.

I have found 15-20 caches of these blocks along the river in my area. Some are
really old. The more I look, the more I find. I imagine there are several
hundred Just around Tokyo.

there are very few things that can stop a levee breach:

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/09/10/439106520/japanese-river-levee-fails-flooding-spurs-evacuation-order-for-130-000

Levee_breach_materials is a mouthful, but I cannot think of a shorter way to
make the tag descriptive enough to avoid mistagging.

Javbw

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Re: [Tagging] Emergency=levee_breach_materials

2018-09-21 Thread Anton Klim

Do these have anything to identify them, like a ref?
3 words for a key seems like a mouthful to me, maybe 
emergency=levee_repair/materials.

Ant

21.09.2018, в 0:59, John Willis  написал(а):

> I ran into an interesting thing when mapping my local rivers. 
> 
> All of the rivers in my area have levees running 100% of their length from 
> the mountains to the coast, there are probably over 1000 linear KM of earthen 
> levees in the Tokyo region alone - 20mx10m levees (or bigger) along the outer 
> banks of all rivers. 
> 
> the small and the large rivers in my area have emergency levee repair 
> stations - hundreds of 1000kg concrete breakwater blocks (like you would see 
> in the ocean), a helicopter pad, and access to dirt/gravel. 
> 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/550873664
> 
> They are situated on high ground, above flooding. 
> 
> After I found one, I found other collections of emergency breakwater supplies 
> along my river, and there are others along the larger rivers. 
> 
> I have never seen one of these purpose-built stations before. 
> 
> I am unsure of the landuse of such a station, nor is there a good tag for it. 
> 
> I thought up Emergency=levee_breach_materials
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> javbw
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[Tagging] Emergency=levee_breach_materials

2018-09-20 Thread John Willis

I ran into an interesting thing when mapping my local rivers. 

All of the rivers in my area have levees running 100% of their length from the 
mountains to the coast, there are probably over 1000 linear KM of earthen 
levees in the Tokyo region alone - 20mx10m levees (or bigger) along the outer 
banks of all rivers. 

the small and the large rivers in my area have emergency levee repair stations 
- hundreds of 1000kg concrete breakwater blocks (like you would see in the 
ocean), a helicopter pad, and access to dirt/gravel. 

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/550873664 


They are situated on high ground, above flooding. 

After I found one, I found other collections of emergency breakwater supplies 
along my river, and there are others along the larger rivers. 

I have never seen one of these purpose-built stations before. 

I am unsure of the landuse of such a station, nor is there a good tag for it. 

I thought up Emergency=levee_breach_materials

Thoughts?

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Re: [Tagging] emergency=first_aid_kit

2018-06-23 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick

On Sun, 24 Jun 2018 at 13:56, Bryan Housel  wrote:

> On Jun 23, 2018, at 10:32 PM, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
> wrote:
>
> There should also be a separate page for first aid facility, if you're not
> busy :-)
>
>
> I still think a staffed facility should be something under `healthcare=*`
> - there is lots on that page already.
>

Fair enough. Thought that it would be something to also (?) list under the
Lifeguard heading we've been discussing - if you've "cut your foot", you go
to the lifeguard & he can provide first aid & call an ambulance if required

> Mentioned on the lifeguard thread the other day that the whole Emergency
> area has been getting cleaned up for the last 4 years!
> As we've seen over this last couple of weeks, it really does need it.
> How do we stir up the cleaning process - comment on the discussion page /
> start a thread here / ???
>
>
> Yes!  Start a thread here on the mailing list for general discussion 
>

OK, I'm a glutton for punishment - after all, Lifeguards is only up to ~80
replies by now & nothing really resolved yet! :-)
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Re: [Tagging] emergency=first_aid_kit

> On Jun 23, 2018, at 10:32 PM, Graeme Fitzpatrick  
> wrote:
> 
> There should also be a separate page for first aid facility, if you're not 
> busy :-)

I still think a staffed facility should be something under `healthcare=*` - 
there is lots on that page already.

> Mentioned on the lifeguard thread the other day that the whole Emergency area 
> has been getting cleaned up for the last 4 years!
> As we've seen over this last couple of weeks, it really does need it.
> How do we stir up the cleaning process - comment on the discussion page / 
> start a thread here / ???

Yes!  Start a thread here on the mailing list for general discussion 
I’d avoid using the discussion pages - they have a very limited audience.

If it results in something that somebody can actually do, let’s track it on 
this repo: https://github.com/osmlab/osm-tagging 

I’m already starting to capture some issues there for pages that need cleanup.

thanks, Bryan

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Re: [Tagging] emergency=first_aid_kit

2018-06-23 Thread Warin


On 24/06/18 12:32, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:


On Sun, 24 Jun 2018 at 12:00, Bryan Housel > wrote:



Anyway I just moved it to `emergency=first_aid_kit`
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:emergency%3Dfirst_aid_kit



There should also be a separate page for first aid facility, if you're 
not busy :-)


Mentioned on the lifeguard thread the other day that the whole 
Emergency area has been getting cleaned up for the last 4 years!


As we've seen over this last couple of weeks, it really does need it.

How do we stir up the cleaning process - comment on the discussion 
page / start a thread here / ???


Good Luck.
Needs more than a feather duster, and I think more than a vacuum.

Meanwhile I'm trying to resolve some tree issues.
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Re: [Tagging] emergency=first_aid_kit

2018-06-23 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick

On Sun, 24 Jun 2018 at 12:00, Bryan Housel  wrote:

>
> Anyway I just moved it to `emergency=first_aid_kit`
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:emergency%3Dfirst_aid_kit
> 
>

There should also be a separate page for first aid facility, if you're not
busy :-)

Mentioned on the lifeguard thread the other day that the whole Emergency
area has been getting cleaned up for the last 4 years!

As we've seen over this last couple of weeks, it really does need it.

How do we stir up the cleaning process - comment on the discussion page /
start a thread here / ???
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Re: [Tagging] emergency=first_aid_kit

> Would you object if I changed the page to emergency=first_aid_kit for 
> example?? 

I would not mind at all -  `emergency=first_aid_kit` was what I suggested 
originally.
Someone else made that wiki page and I don’t know why they called it that.

Anyway I just moved it to `emergency=first_aid_kit`
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:emergency%3Dfirst_aid_kit 



Thanks, Bryan






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Re: [Tagging] emergency=first_aid

2018-06-23 Thread Warin


On 24/06/18 09:06, Bryan Housel wrote:
Err .. proposals can be for anything, including sub tags. There 
should be more of it.
Things like the sub tag 'sales' under motorcycle shops could have 
been avoided if that had come to the tagging group.


I would never waste people’s time by writing a proposal for something 
so simple as a first aid kit.
Notifying the tagging list seems like more than enough process for 
introducing a new tag.




Something? If that something is poor then is is not an accomplishment.


You are calling my work poor?  Improve it then.
We’ve been talking about this tag for over a week.


The proposal process requires at least 2 weeks of comment, followed by 
at least 2 weeks of voting.

Your time scale is a little off for the tagging group.
When I arrived here there were proposals that had been sitting for 
years. Years.

I was told off for closing my proposals comment period after 2 weeks ...
this group likes to take time and lots of it.



The value of 'first_aid' could be applied to a 'first aid room' ... 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_aid_room'


The tag is for first aid kits, not rooms.
The value does not imply that. It simply says 'first aid' .. and that 
can be taken in many ways ..
and misapplied despite whatever the wiki page says. See landuse=grass 
for an example.



Most kits are portable, many of them are designed to be portable. are 
these included? No information on the OSMwiki page.


Yes, same as emergency=defibrillator 
  - 
they are portable but generally attached to walls.




73 is not a status of  'in use' 


So change what it says.




And get into an edit war? No thanks.
Would you object if I changed the page to emergency=first_aid_kit for 
example??


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Re: [Tagging] emergency=first_aid

2018-06-23 Thread marc marc

Hello Bryan,

Le 23. 06. 18 à 18:28, Bryan Housel a écrit :
> 
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:emergency=first_aid
> 
> So that’s the tag.  Be glad we accomplished something!

You confuse speed and quality.
If I read well, only 2 ppl are in favor of first_aid value,
all other disagree.

first_aid is a UGLY value, as ugly as the others you decry
since there is no doubt that there will be confusion between
the first aid facility and the first aid kit

I ask myself how you known the current meaning of emergency=first_aid
how did you choice if it's a kit or a facility ?
imho, emergency=first_aid should be tagged a "warrning unknown meaning"
and a good propal should be :
health_facility:type=first_aid_facility where a staff is available
emergency_first_aid_kit where it's a only box.

Regards,
Marc
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Re: [Tagging] emergency=first_aid

> Err .. proposals can be for anything, including sub tags. There should be 
> more of it.
> Things like the sub tag 'sales' under motorcycle shops could have been 
> avoided if that had come to the tagging group. 

I would never waste people’s time by writing a proposal for something so simple 
as a first aid kit.
Notifying the tagging list seems like more than enough process for introducing 
a new tag.


> Something? If that something is poor then is is not an accomplishment. 

You are calling my work poor?  Improve it then.
We’ve been talking about this tag for over a week.


> The value of 'first_aid' could be applied to a 'first aid room' ... 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_aid_room 
> '

The tag is for first aid kits, not rooms.


> Most kits are portable, many of them are designed to be portable. are these 
> included? No information on the OSMwiki page. 

Yes, same as emergency=defibrillator 
  - they are 
portable but generally attached to walls.


> 73 is not a status of  'in use' 

So change what it says.  


Thanks ,Bryan

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Re: [Tagging] emergency=first_aid

> On Jun 23, 2018, at 10:58 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer  
> wrote:
> +1, if you want to describe the position of a first aid kit, a sensible tag 
> seems emergency=first_aid_kid
> For a staffed location where you go for first aid, emergency=first_aid seems 
> ok (I’d rather use something more verbose like first_aid_station or facility 
> to avoid confusing them with the kits).

Let’s just keep this scoped to first aid kits.  If it was staffed location, I’d 
probably use something under `healthcare=*`  (maybe `clinic`)  
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:healthcare#Values 

> Generally, it is not OK to set up wiki pages for rarely used tags out from 
> nothing, they should be added as proposals to make it easier for 
> inexperienced mappers to distinguish established tags from adhoc drafts 
> without consolidated content.

Yes it is OK to
- invent a new tag value and 
- setup a wiki page for it and 
- notify the tagging list.  

People do this all the time (maybe without notifying the tagging list, but 
let’s encourage more of that).

Proposals should only be for when we’re inventing a new toplevel key or 
introducing a change that affects a lot of things (like PTv2, healthcare, etc). 
 I see a lot of proposal misuse and proposals that shouldn’t be proposals in 
the first place - let’s stop doing this.

FWIW, someone else already made the wiki page.  I’ve cleaned it up and added 
the preset to iD.

> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:emergency=first_aid 
> 
So that’s the tag.  Be glad we accomplished something!

Thanks,  Bryan

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[Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

2018-06-21 Thread Tod Fitch

Graeme Fitzpatrick graemefitz1 at gmail.com  

Wed Jun 20 02:13:47 UTC 2018

> So the photos on
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Aemergency%3Dlifeguard_tower 
>  &
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Aemergency%3Dlifeguard_platform 
> 
> would be your sort of mobile towers?
Sorry, I must have deleted the email from this thread from my reader so am 
replying to the archived version. I am guessing this email will start a new 
thread.

I have uploaded some photos that show the types of lifeguard facilities near me.

First is the headquarters building [1]. I don’t see any particular reason to 
include it in any emergency tagging scheme. While it is locally called the 
“clock tower” and is sometimes used used as an identifiable point for meeting 
people, near as I can tell emergency response does not directly come from there.

Second is the year round staffed tower located just off the beach on the pier. 
[2] This is a permanent structure currently tagged with building=yes and 
emergency=lifeguard_tower.

Third is one of the stations on the city beach [3]. This one happens to remain 
in place all year as it is the marker for how close swimming is allowed to the 
pier. But you can see by the design that the whole structure can be moved and 
some of other stations/towers on the beach are moved to safer locations to 
survive winter storms. This particular station/tower is not on OSM at present 
largely because I was unsure about how to tag it.

Forth is one of the near by state parks beach [4]. Similar concept to the city 
version but different construction materials, etc. Some of these are also moved 
to safer locations during the winter.

Again, the towers that are moved to safer locations during winter are all 
replaced in the same place each summer. At least close enough to the same place 
that it probably doesn’t make much difference for OSM. I can see a desire to 
distinguish between a movable lifeguard tower and one that is very definitely 
not designed to move but don’t have any good ideas on how that might be tagged.

Cheers!

[1] 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:San_Clemente_lifeguard_headquarters.jpg
[2] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:San_Clemente_Lifeguard_Tower_2.jpg
[3] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:San_Clemente_Lifeguard_Tower_1.jpg
[4] 
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Re: [Tagging] emergency=first_aid_kit

2018-06-20 Thread Warin

On 21/06/18 08:00, Paul Allen wrote:
On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 10:53 PM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com
> wrote:

There are fist ad kits .. and first aid kits ..

I now have a scene playing in my head. It's Paul Hogan sneering and
saying "Call that a

first aid kit? Now THIS is a first aid kit." :)

Probably useful enough to map so tourists know where to go in an
emergency. Or maybe
best not to map them as the kits that contain stuff to perform
amputations are going to have

some serious drugs in them.

Tourist will usually ask for help .. either by some communication device
(HF radio, sat-phone, EPIRB/PLB) or by going to a person at a farm
(homestead)/town/village or even just someone travelling down the road.
That help should know where the RFDS can land, where local help is
available and be able to coordinate that help. If not then they are not
a 'local'.

For remote locations.. best call the RFDS first .. if you cannot get
them .. then possibly the police on the emergency phone number (112
works internationally, 000 in Australia) (as they look to have better
capabilities than the ambulance service in remote areas for
understanding where you are (the ambulance service seams to think a
cross street is required to locate you .. nearest cross street might be
100 kms away!) ).

RFDS don't release their drug list .. but here is one from a similar set
up
http://remotehealthatlas.nt.gov.au/emergency_outreach_drug_box_contents.pdf#search=%22emergency%22
A 4WD kit
https://www.stjohnqld.com.au/Shop/First-aid-kits/Kit-off-road-4WD Note
the lack of drugs. Anyone doing a good first aid course will know how to
get drugs for use. Do a course .. more than 2 days!

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Re: [Tagging] emergency=first_aid_kit

2018-06-20 Thread Paul Allen

On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 10:53 PM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

There are fist ad kits .. and first aid kits ..
>

I now have a scene playing in my head.  It's Paul Hogan sneering and saying
"Call that a
first aid kit?  Now THIS is a first aid kit." :)

Probably useful enough to map so tourists know where to go in an
emergency.  Or maybe
best not to map them as the kits that contain stuff to perform amputations
are going to have
some serious drugs in them.

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Re: [Tagging] emergency=first_aid_kit

2018-06-20 Thread Warin


On 21/06/18 05:43, Paul Allen wrote:
On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Simon Poole > wrote:


I'm actually not quite happy with the whole thing as it would seem
to range from a potentially staffed first aid facility to what you
were looking for, a simple first aid kit. In practical terms that
would be a rather big difference that should be reflected in the
tagging.

Please sort it out soon.  I can't wait to map the first aid kit in the 
cabinet in my bathroom.  I already have a name for it!  One
day I'll stock it with more than a few sticking plasters, but it's a 
green plastic box with a white cross on it and it says

"first aid" on it.

More seriously, I'm not convinced about this one. First aid kits are 
small enough to move around.  They may or may not
be complete.  There may or may not be a trained first-aider who knows 
how to use them.  To the extent that legislation
in some jurisdictions may required all companies above a certain size 
to have one, is there any point mapping them?


There are fist ad kits .. and first aid kits .. this one is a chest
https://www.flyingdoctor.org.au/wa/our-services/medical-chests/

Some information on the use of these chests ?
"If there is a medical chest at their location, the worker can call the 
RFDS on our medical advice line and ask for medical assistance. The call 
would then be transferred to an RFDS doctor, who will speak to the 
patient and diagnose the condition over the phone. The doctor will then 
prescribe a drug from the chest, for example, number "134" antibiotic 
eye drops, and give the patient instructions on what to do.


At the end of the phone consultation, the doctor will also provide the 
patient with a consult number which is needed to re-order the drug once 
it has been used.


This scenario is also applicable to emergency situations. In the event 
of something serious like an amputation, crush injury or severe burn, 
medical chest custodians have access to RFDS doctors who will assess the 
situation via phone, prescribe appropriate pain relief and/or other 
medication, and arrange for an aeromedical evacuation if necessary."


Note that calls to the RFDS are usually done by HF radio. Satelite 
phones have become popular with tourist too, but the 'locals' still 
prefer the HF radios.


I don't know if they should be mapped .. th elocals know where they are 
and who is in ca=harge of it. So ther may not be much call for mapping 
them.


Possibly a sub tag should be required?  Something along the lines of 
what level of first aid can be supplied? minor aliments, minor wounds, 
minor crush injuries, aliphatic shock, amputation, major trauma...


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Re: [Tagging] emergency=first_aid_kit

Sure, what would help?
Calling it a first_aid_kit? so nobody would get it confused with a staffed 
facility?


> On Jun 20, 2018, at 3:25 PM, Simon Poole  wrote:
> 
> I'm actually not quite happy with the whole thing as it would seem to range 
> from a potentially staffed first aid facility to what you were looking for, a 
> simple first aid kit. In practical terms that would be a rather big 
> difference that should be reflected in the tagging.
> 
> Simon
> 
> Am 20.06.2018 um 19:51 schrieb Bryan Housel:
>> I guess `emergency=first_aid` seems fine (since it aims to replace the 
>> barely used `amenity=first_aid`)
>> 
>> I agree the page looks like a rough draft, but the infobox looks pretty 
>> good.  Thank you for volunteering to clean it up!
>> It should probably be a feature that sits on points only (like 
>> `emergency=defibrillator`) - the “shop outline” stuff doesn’t make sense.
>> 
>> Thanks, Bryan
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 20, 2018, at 1:46 PM, Simon Poole >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Not to mention first_aid vs first_aid_kit what it is supposed to be now?
>>> 
>>> Am 20.06.2018 um 19:40 schrieb Simon Poole:
 If I may say so the page seems a bit weird. 
 Name on a first aid kit? Draw an area around the shop outline?
 
 Assuming that are simply C errors, I'll fix things in nobody has any 
 objections.
 
 Simon
 
 Am 20.06.2018 um 19:31 schrieb Bryan Housel:
> Just following up after a week - there wasn’t any significant opposition 
> and it looks like somebody added this page:  
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Aemergency%3Dfirst_aid 
> 
> 
> Thank you!
> I’ll add the preset to iD and we can consider this one closed 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2018, at 12:08 AM, Bryan Housel > > wrote:
>> 
>> I was looking at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:emergency 
>>  today.
>> 
>> Can we add a tag for `emergency=first_aid_kit` ?
>> 
>> thanks, Bryan
>> 
>> ___
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>> 
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> 
> 
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>>> 
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>> 
>> 
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Re: [Tagging] emergency=fire_alarm , emergency=stop_button

It’s been a week on this also with no further discussion and general consensus 
that these things are ok.
Looking for volunteers to update wiki and cleanup tags for:

`emergency=fire_alarm`(existing page at 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:emergency%3Dfire_alarm_box 
 needs to be 
moved)
https://github.com/osmlab/osm-tagging/issues/5 



`emergency=stop_button`
https://github.com/osmlab/osm-tagging/issues/6 



Thanks, Bryan



> On Jun 11, 2018, at 10:53 AM, Bryan Housel  wrote:
> 
> Ok cool
> 
> So we have
> `emergency=fire_alarm`   (for both indoor pull and outdoor box types, invent 
> a sub tag if needed to distinguish)
> and
> `emergency=stop_button`
> 
> Who wants to add these pages?
> I’ll add presets for iD this week if we can just move this forward and wrap 
> up the discussion.
> 
> 
> Thanks, Bryan
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2018, at 10:50 AM, > > 
>> > > wrote:
>> 
>> And many other places, yes… that’s why I was surprised to see that 
>> emergency=stop_button has only been used a single time worldwide and there 
>> don’t seem to be any other similar values in the emergency key.
>>  
> 

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Re: [Tagging] emergency=first_aid_kit

2018-06-20 Thread Paul Allen

On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Simon Poole  wrote:

> I'm actually not quite happy with the whole thing as it would seem to
> range from a potentially staffed first aid facility to what you were
> looking for, a simple first aid kit. In practical terms that would be a
> rather big difference that should be reflected in the tagging.
>
Please sort it out soon.  I can't wait to map the first aid kit in the
cabinet in my bathroom.  I already have a name for it!  One
day I'll stock it with more than a few sticking plasters, but it's a green
plastic box with a white cross on it and it says
"first aid" on it.

More seriously, I'm not convinced about this one.  First aid kits are small
enough to move around.  They may or may not
be complete.  There may or may not be a trained first-aider who knows how
to use them.  To the extent that legislation
in some jurisdictions may required all companies above a certain size to
have one, is there any point mapping them?

-- 
Paul
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Re: [Tagging] emergency=first_aid_kit

2018-06-20 Thread Simon Poole

I'm actually not quite happy with the whole thing as it would seem to
range from a potentially staffed first aid facility to what you were
looking for, a simple first aid kit. In practical terms that would be a
rather big difference that should be reflected in the tagging.

Simon


Am 20.06.2018 um 19:51 schrieb Bryan Housel:
> I guess `emergency=first_aid` seems fine (since it aims to replace the
> barely used `amenity=first_aid`)
>
> I agree the page looks like a rough draft, but the infobox looks
> pretty good.  Thank you for volunteering to clean it up!
> It should probably be a feature that sits on points only (like
> `emergency=defibrillator`) - the “shop outline” stuff doesn’t make sense.
>
> Thanks, Bryan
>
>
>
>> On Jun 20, 2018, at 1:46 PM, Simon Poole > > wrote:
>>
>> Not to mention first_aid vs first_aid_kit what it is supposed to be now?
>>
>>
>> Am 20.06.2018 um 19:40 schrieb Simon Poole:
>>>
>>> If I may say so the page seems a bit weird.
>>>
>>> Name on a first aid kit? Draw an area around the shop outline?
>>>
>>> Assuming that are simply C errors, I'll fix things in nobody has
>>> any objections.
>>>
>>> Simon
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 20.06.2018 um 19:31 schrieb Bryan Housel:
 Just following up after a week - there wasn’t any significant
 opposition and it looks like somebody added this page:  
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Aemergency%3Dfirst_aid
 

 Thank you!
 I’ll add the preset to iD and we can consider this one closed 



> On Jun 11, 2018, at 12:08 AM, Bryan Housel  > wrote:
>
> I was looking
> at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:emergency today.
>
> Can we add a tag for `emergency=first_aid_kit` ?
>
> thanks, Bryan
>
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>>
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Re: [Tagging] emergency=first_aid_kit

I guess `emergency=first_aid` seems fine (since it aims to replace the barely 
used `amenity=first_aid`)

I agree the page looks like a rough draft, but the infobox looks pretty good.  
Thank you for volunteering to clean it up!
It should probably be a feature that sits on points only (like 
`emergency=defibrillator`) - the “shop outline” stuff doesn’t make sense.

Thanks, Bryan



> On Jun 20, 2018, at 1:46 PM, Simon Poole  wrote:
> 
> Not to mention first_aid vs first_aid_kit what it is supposed to be now?
> 
> Am 20.06.2018 um 19:40 schrieb Simon Poole:
>> If I may say so the page seems a bit weird. 
>> Name on a first aid kit? Draw an area around the shop outline?
>> 
>> Assuming that are simply C errors, I'll fix things in nobody has any 
>> objections.
>> 
>> Simon
>> 
>> Am 20.06.2018 um 19:31 schrieb Bryan Housel:
>>> Just following up after a week - there wasn’t any significant opposition 
>>> and it looks like somebody added this page:  
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Aemergency%3Dfirst_aid 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thank you!
>>> I’ll add the preset to iD and we can consider this one closed 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Jun 11, 2018, at 12:08 AM, Bryan Housel >>> > wrote:
 
 I was looking at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:emergency 
  today.
 
 Can we add a tag for `emergency=first_aid_kit` ?
 
 thanks, Bryan
 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Tagging] emergency=first_aid_kit

2018-06-20 Thread Simon Poole

Not to mention first_aid vs first_aid_kit what it is supposed to be now?


Am 20.06.2018 um 19:40 schrieb Simon Poole:
>
> If I may say so the page seems a bit weird.
>
> Name on a first aid kit? Draw an area around the shop outline?
>
> Assuming that are simply C errors, I'll fix things in nobody has any
> objections.
>
> Simon
>
>
> Am 20.06.2018 um 19:31 schrieb Bryan Housel:
>> Just following up after a week - there wasn’t any significant
>> opposition and it looks like somebody added this page:  
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Aemergency%3Dfirst_aid
>> 
>>
>> Thank you!
>> I’ll add the preset to iD and we can consider this one closed 
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jun 11, 2018, at 12:08 AM, Bryan Housel >> > wrote:
>>>
>>> I was looking
>>> at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:emergency today.
>>>
>>> Can we add a tag for `emergency=first_aid_kit` ?
>>>
>>> thanks, Bryan
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Tagging mailing list
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>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>
>>
>>
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>
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>
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Re: [Tagging] emergency=first_aid_kit

2018-06-20 Thread Simon Poole

If I may say so the page seems a bit weird.

Name on a first aid kit? Draw an area around the shop outline?

Assuming that are simply C errors, I'll fix things in nobody has any
objections.

Simon


Am 20.06.2018 um 19:31 schrieb Bryan Housel:
> Just following up after a week - there wasn’t any significant
> opposition and it looks like somebody added this page:  
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Aemergency%3Dfirst_aid
> 
>
> Thank you!
> I’ll add the preset to iD and we can consider this one closed 
>
>
>
>> On Jun 11, 2018, at 12:08 AM, Bryan Housel > > wrote:
>>
>> I was looking
>> at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:emergency today.
>>
>> Can we add a tag for `emergency=first_aid_kit` ?
>>
>> thanks, Bryan
>>
>> ___
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>
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] emergency=first_aid_kit