RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Vaughan Dodd via Talk]

The same Microsoft which screwed screen readers out of the development of Edge.

Vaughan.



-Original Message-
From: Talk 
[mailto:talk-bounces+vaughan.dodd001=msd.govt...@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
Behalf Of Loy via Talk
Sent: Friday, 17 March 2017 3:53 p.m.
To: Sky Mundell; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

And the free version for Office was subsidized by Microsoft.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Sky Mundell via Talk 
  To: 'Vaughan Dodd' ; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' 
  Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 10:53 PM
  Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account


  Hi Vaughn.  When the office deal came out, remember, they have two versions
  of Window-Eyes that you can get.  The free version, with office, and the
  paid for version which would give you the tech support.

  -Original Message-
  From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+skyt=shaw...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
  Behalf Of Vaughan Dodd via Talk
  Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 7:46 PM
  To: 'ukekearu...@valtdnet.com'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
  Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

  I feel that the key point as this relates to Window-eyes is missed: if you
  don't pay - you can presume to not get. The Window-Eyes for Office deal has
  meant that there is no cash to fix long standing problems or to develop new
  features.  

  People who make a business choice to develop tools which make our lives
  better do also have to live.  Although I will always remain unhappy with
  current developments, the software engineers who continue to develop screen
  readers are tradable - they can sell their skills to someone else.

  I do believe that the virtual monopoly on screen readers especially for
  those who are employed is a bad thng.  But - it is what we have, and it
  might be that there is now a huge barrier which prevents others from
  offering choice to consumers.
  Tough as it is: we have to make spending choices, and certainly, if
  financial assistance is there - take it.  But: someone produces and sells,
  someone else buys and consumes.

  Vaughan.



  -Original Message-
  From: Talk
  [mailto:talk-bounces+vaughan.dodd001=msd.govt...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
  Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
  Sent: Friday, 17 March 2017 3:34 p.m.
  To: 'Tony C'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
  Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

  Tony, I could not agree more!  It seems to me that blind folks are pretty
  happy being ripped off.  Petitions fall on deaf ears, elements of deceitful
  dishonesty beat down like hurricanes and tornados, and stun guns are always
  at the ready to fire and knock the blind out!  

  If the goings-on had happened in the mainstream, antitrust law would have
  been cited and everything would have gone under quietly.  With impunity and
  flagrant disregard, the blind continue to borrow the phrase from Animal
  Farm:  "Four legs good, two legs bad!"  Milk on Freedom Scientific, V F O
  Group, AI Square, ...  Did I miss any?  

  Hmm, anyone knows what's holding the U.S. Treasury back from complying with
  the court order by making the dollar bill more accessible?  The junk
  noteteller they choose to hand me is utterly worthless and useless
  especially in a business environment where I have more prying eyes watching.

  Sincerely,
  Olusegun
  Denver, Colorado


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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Kenneth Son via Talk]

Hello list.

Speaking of holding VFO accountable,

Where is any information of the update of Window Eyes for the new 
release of Windows 10 soon to be released?


I have not seen this as of yet.

I want to get a new computer in April but if I don't know for sure if 
Window Eyes works with it, I will have to hold on to this windows 8 
computer until I hear of any release of a version that will work with 
this new update of Windows 10 Creator adition.


If Window Eyes is truly dead, I wish VFO would come out with an upgrade 
plan to Jaws so I can get on with it.


Kenneth Son.



On 3/16/2017 19:33, Nick Sarames via Talk wrote:

To be fair, the disparity between the price of a screen reader and the
price of a desk top has everything to do with supply and demand.  Fewer
consumers are purchasing desk tops.  Until most screen reader users
replace their screen readers with Iphone-like products, the price of a
screen reader will likely not decrease much.

On 3/16/2017 5:35 PM, Evan Reese via Talk wrote:

Hmmm, how about a screenreader company that charges more for their
product than a decent desktop these days? Some people might call that
being "penalized" simply to access their PC, something any sighted
person can do right out of the box.
Evan

-Original Message- From: Pamela Dominguez via Talk
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 5:02 PM
To: Butch Bussen ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

Yes.  Somebody said about something:  "The only way it's hard is if you
make
it hard".  Well, it seems to me that that is quight subjective.  He is
speaking from his own experience.  Those of us who don't rush to get every
little new thing don't think that way.  I don't see why we should be
penalized because we don't want a touch screen or whatever the newest thing
is.  Pam.

-Original Message- From: Butch Bussen via Talk
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 1:11 PM
To: Russ Kiehne ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Reeva Webb
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

I understand that.  And that is great, for you.  I just can't deal with
touch screens.  Give me buttons to push.  As I said in an earlier note,
the same solution isn't for everyone.  You guys and your i whatevers
think they solve the world's access problems.  Perhaps for some they do.
  I can't figure out how to run my IPod.
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Thu, 16 Mar 2017, Russ Kiehne
via Talk wrote:


In my case, my ipad mini 4 has taken the place of my victor reader
stream first generation, Booksense standard and plextalk pocket.  It
has more volume, better battery life and better sound.  It does
everything they do and a lot more.

-Original Message- From: Reeva Webb via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:54 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List ; Dennis Long
Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

You know, this gets me thinking esp. With the conversations I've had
in the
past week. We're getting what we wanted for years. We can go into a
electronics store and buy a iphone, a android phone, a mac, a chromebook
and soon windows computers  with accessibility out of the box. You don't
have to spend extra money unless you want to.  While what is happening
with
zt fusion, something I spent my own money to buy makes me mad. I'm
seriously considering just going fully with mainstream products. I find
myself using my android devices more and pulling out my laptop less.


"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Mar 16, 2017 1:18 AM, "Dennis Long via Talk"

wrote:

I agree with you completely!

-Original Message-
From: Talk
[mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:12 PM
To: Tony C; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

Problem is you i phone users think everyone can use one and can use a
touch
screen.  They are not for everyone.  I think blind folks fall into that
worse than any group.  if it works for me, it is great for everyone
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:


  I really think that in the very near future "adaptive" technology will
  become a thing of the past. We aren't there yet, but more and more
  things are becoming voice activated, and voice commanded. The market
  for such special items as Window-eyes and Jaws is waining. Heck, the I
  phone out of the box gives the blind user access to GPS, internet
  searches, txt messageing, etc, without the need of an expensive piece
  of software that at best in moderately useable. It's just a matter of

time.

  -Original Message- From: Vaughan Dodd via Talk
  Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:05 PM
  To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
  Subject: Failure to hold VFO to account

  Greetings all.

  I've just 

Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Loy via Talk]

And the free version for Office was subsidized by Microsoft.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Sky Mundell via Talk 
  To: 'Vaughan Dodd' ; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' 
  Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 10:53 PM
  Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account


  Hi Vaughn.  When the office deal came out, remember, they have two versions
  of Window-Eyes that you can get.  The free version, with office, and the
  paid for version which would give you the tech support.

  -Original Message-
  From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+skyt=shaw...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
  Behalf Of Vaughan Dodd via Talk
  Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 7:46 PM
  To: 'ukekearu...@valtdnet.com'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
  Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

  I feel that the key point as this relates to Window-eyes is missed: if you
  don't pay - you can presume to not get. The Window-Eyes for Office deal has
  meant that there is no cash to fix long standing problems or to develop new
  features.  

  People who make a business choice to develop tools which make our lives
  better do also have to live.  Although I will always remain unhappy with
  current developments, the software engineers who continue to develop screen
  readers are tradable - they can sell their skills to someone else.

  I do believe that the virtual monopoly on screen readers especially for
  those who are employed is a bad thng.  But - it is what we have, and it
  might be that there is now a huge barrier which prevents others from
  offering choice to consumers.
  Tough as it is: we have to make spending choices, and certainly, if
  financial assistance is there - take it.  But: someone produces and sells,
  someone else buys and consumes.

  Vaughan.



  -Original Message-
  From: Talk
  [mailto:talk-bounces+vaughan.dodd001=msd.govt...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
  Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
  Sent: Friday, 17 March 2017 3:34 p.m.
  To: 'Tony C'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
  Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

  Tony, I could not agree more!  It seems to me that blind folks are pretty
  happy being ripped off.  Petitions fall on deaf ears, elements of deceitful
  dishonesty beat down like hurricanes and tornados, and stun guns are always
  at the ready to fire and knock the blind out!  

  If the goings-on had happened in the mainstream, antitrust law would have
  been cited and everything would have gone under quietly.  With impunity and
  flagrant disregard, the blind continue to borrow the phrase from Animal
  Farm:  "Four legs good, two legs bad!"  Milk on Freedom Scientific, V F O
  Group, AI Square, ...  Did I miss any?  

  Hmm, anyone knows what's holding the U.S. Treasury back from complying with
  the court order by making the dollar bill more accessible?  The junk
  noteteller they choose to hand me is utterly worthless and useless
  especially in a business environment where I have more prying eyes watching.

  Sincerely,
  Olusegun
  Denver, Colorado


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RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Sky Mundell via Talk]

Hi Vaughn.  When the office deal came out, remember, they have two versions
of Window-Eyes that you can get.  The free version, with office, and the
paid for version which would give you the tech support.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+skyt=shaw...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Vaughan Dodd via Talk
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 7:46 PM
To: 'ukekearu...@valtdnet.com'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

I feel that the key point as this relates to Window-eyes is missed: if you
don't pay - you can presume to not get. The Window-Eyes for Office deal has
meant that there is no cash to fix long standing problems or to develop new
features.  

People who make a business choice to develop tools which make our lives
better do also have to live.  Although I will always remain unhappy with
current developments, the software engineers who continue to develop screen
readers are tradable - they can sell their skills to someone else.

I do believe that the virtual monopoly on screen readers especially for
those who are employed is a bad thng.  But - it is what we have, and it
might be that there is now a huge barrier which prevents others from
offering choice to consumers.
Tough as it is: we have to make spending choices, and certainly, if
financial assistance is there - take it.  But: someone produces and sells,
someone else buys and consumes.

Vaughan.



-Original Message-
From: Talk
[mailto:talk-bounces+vaughan.dodd001=msd.govt...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
Sent: Friday, 17 March 2017 3:34 p.m.
To: 'Tony C'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

Tony, I could not agree more!  It seems to me that blind folks are pretty
happy being ripped off.  Petitions fall on deaf ears, elements of deceitful
dishonesty beat down like hurricanes and tornados, and stun guns are always
at the ready to fire and knock the blind out!  

If the goings-on had happened in the mainstream, antitrust law would have
been cited and everything would have gone under quietly.  With impunity and
flagrant disregard, the blind continue to borrow the phrase from Animal
Farm:  "Four legs good, two legs bad!"  Milk on Freedom Scientific, V F O
Group, AI Square, ...  Did I miss any?  

Hmm, anyone knows what's holding the U.S. Treasury back from complying with
the court order by making the dollar bill more accessible?  The junk
noteteller they choose to hand me is utterly worthless and useless
especially in a business environment where I have more prying eyes watching.

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


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RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Vaughan Dodd via Talk]

I feel that the key point as this relates to Window-eyes is missed: if you 
don't pay - you can presume to not get. The Window-Eyes for Office deal has 
meant that there is no cash to fix long standing problems or to develop new 
features.  

People who make a business choice to develop tools which make our lives better 
do also have to live.  Although I will always remain unhappy with current 
developments, the software engineers who continue to develop screen readers are 
tradable - they can sell their skills to someone else.

I do believe that the virtual monopoly on screen readers especially for those 
who are employed is a bad thng.  But - it is what we have, and it might be that 
there is now a huge barrier which prevents others from offering choice to 
consumers.
Tough as it is: we have to make spending choices, and certainly, if financial 
assistance is there - take it.  But: someone produces and sells, someone else 
buys and consumes.

Vaughan.



-Original Message-
From: Talk 
[mailto:talk-bounces+vaughan.dodd001=msd.govt...@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
Sent: Friday, 17 March 2017 3:34 p.m.
To: 'Tony C'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

Tony, I could not agree more!  It seems to me that blind folks are pretty happy 
being ripped off.  Petitions fall on deaf ears, elements of deceitful 
dishonesty beat down like hurricanes and tornados, and stun guns are always at 
the ready to fire and knock the blind out!  

If the goings-on had happened in the mainstream, antitrust law would have been 
cited and everything would have gone under quietly.  With impunity and flagrant 
disregard, the blind continue to borrow the phrase from Animal
Farm:  "Four legs good, two legs bad!"  Milk on Freedom Scientific, V F O 
Group, AI Square, ...  Did I miss any?  

Hmm, anyone knows what's holding the U.S. Treasury back from complying with the 
court order by making the dollar bill more accessible?  The junk noteteller 
they choose to hand me is utterly worthless and useless especially in a 
business environment where I have more prying eyes watching.

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


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RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk]

Tony, I could not agree more!  It seems to me that blind folks are pretty
happy being ripped off.  Petitions fall on deaf ears, elements of deceitful
dishonesty beat down like hurricanes and tornados, and stun guns are always
at the ready to fire and knock the blind out!  

If the goings-on had happened in the mainstream, antitrust law would have
been cited and everything would have gone under quietly.  With impunity and
flagrant disregard, the blind continue to borrow the phrase from Animal
Farm:  "Four legs good, two legs bad!"  Milk on Freedom Scientific, V F O
Group, AI Square, ...  Did I miss any?  

Hmm, anyone knows what's holding the U.S. Treasury back from complying with
the court order by making the dollar bill more accessible?  The junk
noteteller they choose to hand me is utterly worthless and useless
especially in a business environment where I have more prying eyes watching.

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Terri Pannett via Talk]

I agree with you, Butch.  I never got used to the Android phone, even 
with the BrailleEdge connected to it.  I wish people wouldn't 
automatically think that because they can use their I devices and 
Android devices that Apple and Android is good for everyone.


Also, I hate voice commands!  The stupid phones don't understand them 
most of the time.



Terri Amateur radio call sign KF6CA
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Screen Reader Pricing

[Dave via Talk]

I have no idea the number of Customers Window Eyes has, nor that of JAWS. 
The folks over at the NVDA Web Site tell how often their program has
been downloaded, which I think is around 60 or 70 thousand times, World
Wide.  

The NVDA number just surprises me at how low it is, especially when you
consider how many times each person might download and install NVDA.  

If counting Work Computers and my home systems, I have installed on at
least Four Systems, and I've had to reinstall a few times when a HD
crashes, or the System gets seriously in trouble and a Re-format and
reinstall of EVERYTHING is needed.  

To have a World Wide number be this low, it does make me wonder what the
real numbers are for Window Eyes and Jaws.   Due to low numbers, the
price might need to be high.  

Guess I thought there were more potential customers than what appears to
be there.  

Perhaps most Blind are only the partially Blind, as in Low Vision, and
so the money is in products like Zoom Text and others.

Isn't this why VFO bought out AI Squared?  To get their  Zoom Text?  

And Window Eyes is just an after thought to all but those of us who use
it, and would like to remain loyal to it.  

Although, to remain loyal today means I would really be giving my cash
to the Parent Company of JAWS.  So what difference does it make whether
I use Window Eyes or JAWS?  

Like it or not, we all have been swallowed by the Shark!  

Eventually we will be given a choice, Pay up, or move over to NVDA.  

Can't believe I would ever use JAWS, but I need a Screen Reader to do
some things NVDA just can not do yet.  

Grumpy Dave





-- 
Dave 

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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

It's not about being penalized - it's about what the market will provide.

On 3/16/2017 5:02 PM, Pamela Dominguez via Talk wrote:
> Yes.  Somebody said about something:  "The only way it's hard is if you
> make it hard".  Well, it seems to me that that is quight subjective.  He
> is speaking from his own experience.  Those of us who don't rush to get
> every little new thing don't think that way.  I don't see why we should
> be penalized because we don't want a touch screen or whatever the newest
> thing is.  Pam.
>
> -Original Message- From: Butch Bussen via Talk
> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 1:11 PM
> To: Russ Kiehne ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Reeva Webb
> Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account
>
> I understand that.  And that is great, for you.  I just can't deal with
> touch screens.  Give me buttons to push.  As I said in an earlier note,
> the same solution isn't for everyone.  You guys and your i whatevers
> think they solve the world's access problems.  Perhaps for some they do.
>  I can't figure out how to run my IPod.
> 73
> Butch
> WA0VJR
> Node 3148
> Wallace, ks.
>
>
> On Thu, 16 Mar 2017, Russ Kiehne
> via Talk wrote:
>
>> In my case, my ipad mini 4 has taken the place of my victor reader
>> stream first generation, Booksense standard and plextalk pocket.  It
>> has more volume, better battery life and better sound.  It does
>> everything they do and a lot more.
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Reeva Webb via Talk
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:54 PM
>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List ; Dennis Long
>> Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account
>>
>> You know, this gets me thinking esp. With the conversations I've had
>> in the
>> past week. We're getting what we wanted for years. We can go into a
>> electronics store and buy a iphone, a android phone, a mac, a chromebook
>> and soon windows computers  with accessibility out of the box. You don't
>> have to spend extra money unless you want to.  While what is happening
>> with
>> zt fusion, something I spent my own money to buy makes me mad. I'm
>> seriously considering just going fully with mainstream products. I find
>> myself using my android devices more and pulling out my laptop less.
>>
>>
>> "the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
>> night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho
>>
>> Reeva
>>
>> On Mar 16, 2017 1:18 AM, "Dennis Long via Talk"
>> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I agree with you completely!
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk
>> [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
>> On Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:12 PM
>> To: Tony C; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account
>>
>> Problem is you i phone users think everyone can use one and can use a
>> touch
>> screen.  They are not for everyone.  I think blind folks fall into that
>> worse than any group.  if it works for me, it is great for everyone
>> 73
>> Butch
>> WA0VJR
>> Node 3148
>> Wallace, ks.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:
>>
>>>  I really think that in the very near future "adaptive" technology will
>>>  become a thing of the past. We aren't there yet, but more and more
>>>  things are becoming voice activated, and voice commanded. The market
>>>  for such special items as Window-eyes and Jaws is waining. Heck, the I
>>>  phone out of the box gives the blind user access to GPS, internet
>>>  searches, txt messageing, etc, without the need of an expensive piece
>>>  of software that at best in moderately useable. It's just a matter of
>> time.
>>>
>>>  -Original Message- From: Vaughan Dodd via Talk
>>>  Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:05 PM
>>>  To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
>>>  Subject: Failure to hold VFO to account
>>>
>>>  Greetings all.
>>>
>>>  I've just flicked through the latest edition of Access World from AFB.
>>>  We are promised CSUN updates in April.
>>>
>>>  In the 21st  Century, and with our accessible technology industry
>>>  going through significant change, not to mention the demise of the
>>>  pony express, the failure of someone to get down and dirty with VFO
>>>  leadership suggests to me that we are being let down by credible
>> information sources.
>>>
>>>  Quite reasonably, AFB promotes its sponsorship of the Blind Bargain
>>>  blogs concerning CSUN events and exhibits, but these don't cut it
>>> iehter.
>>>
>>>  One of the disappointing things about services like Apple Vis is that
>>>  although often people exchange useful information, the leadership
>>>  fails to critique the shortcomings of Apple with respect to its
>>>  developments in the specialty area of access.  The same seems true on
>>>  the Windows side of the divide - with no one prepared to critique VFO's
>> behaviours.
>>>
>>>  Vaughan.
>>>
>>>  ---
>>>  This email and any attachments may contain 

Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

To be fair, the disparity between the price of a screen reader and the 
price of a desk top has everything to do with supply and demand.  Fewer 
consumers are purchasing desk tops.  Until most screen reader users 
replace their screen readers with Iphone-like products, the price of a 
screen reader will likely not decrease much.

On 3/16/2017 5:35 PM, Evan Reese via Talk wrote:
> Hmmm, how about a screenreader company that charges more for their
> product than a decent desktop these days? Some people might call that
> being "penalized" simply to access their PC, something any sighted
> person can do right out of the box.
> Evan
>
> -Original Message- From: Pamela Dominguez via Talk
> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 5:02 PM
> To: Butch Bussen ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account
>
> Yes.  Somebody said about something:  "The only way it's hard is if you
> make
> it hard".  Well, it seems to me that that is quight subjective.  He is
> speaking from his own experience.  Those of us who don't rush to get every
> little new thing don't think that way.  I don't see why we should be
> penalized because we don't want a touch screen or whatever the newest thing
> is.  Pam.
>
> -Original Message- From: Butch Bussen via Talk
> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 1:11 PM
> To: Russ Kiehne ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Reeva Webb
> Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account
>
> I understand that.  And that is great, for you.  I just can't deal with
> touch screens.  Give me buttons to push.  As I said in an earlier note,
> the same solution isn't for everyone.  You guys and your i whatevers
> think they solve the world's access problems.  Perhaps for some they do.
>  I can't figure out how to run my IPod.
> 73
> Butch
> WA0VJR
> Node 3148
> Wallace, ks.
>
>
> On Thu, 16 Mar 2017, Russ Kiehne
> via Talk wrote:
>
>> In my case, my ipad mini 4 has taken the place of my victor reader
>> stream first generation, Booksense standard and plextalk pocket.  It
>> has more volume, better battery life and better sound.  It does
>> everything they do and a lot more.
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Reeva Webb via Talk
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:54 PM
>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List ; Dennis Long
>> Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account
>>
>> You know, this gets me thinking esp. With the conversations I've had
>> in the
>> past week. We're getting what we wanted for years. We can go into a
>> electronics store and buy a iphone, a android phone, a mac, a chromebook
>> and soon windows computers  with accessibility out of the box. You don't
>> have to spend extra money unless you want to.  While what is happening
>> with
>> zt fusion, something I spent my own money to buy makes me mad. I'm
>> seriously considering just going fully with mainstream products. I find
>> myself using my android devices more and pulling out my laptop less.
>>
>>
>> "the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
>> night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho
>>
>> Reeva
>>
>> On Mar 16, 2017 1:18 AM, "Dennis Long via Talk"
>> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I agree with you completely!
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk
>> [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
>> On Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:12 PM
>> To: Tony C; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account
>>
>> Problem is you i phone users think everyone can use one and can use a
>> touch
>> screen.  They are not for everyone.  I think blind folks fall into that
>> worse than any group.  if it works for me, it is great for everyone
>> 73
>> Butch
>> WA0VJR
>> Node 3148
>> Wallace, ks.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:
>>
>>>  I really think that in the very near future "adaptive" technology will
>>>  become a thing of the past. We aren't there yet, but more and more
>>>  things are becoming voice activated, and voice commanded. The market
>>>  for such special items as Window-eyes and Jaws is waining. Heck, the I
>>>  phone out of the box gives the blind user access to GPS, internet
>>>  searches, txt messageing, etc, without the need of an expensive piece
>>>  of software that at best in moderately useable. It's just a matter of
>> time.
>>>
>>>  -Original Message- From: Vaughan Dodd via Talk
>>>  Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:05 PM
>>>  To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
>>>  Subject: Failure to hold VFO to account
>>>
>>>  Greetings all.
>>>
>>>  I've just flicked through the latest edition of Access World from AFB.
>>>  We are promised CSUN updates in April.
>>>
>>>  In the 21st  Century, and with our accessible technology industry
>>>  going through significant change, not to mention the demise of the
>>>  pony express, the failure of someone to get down and dirty with VFO
>>>  leadership suggests to me that 

Re: best of w-e with jaws for office?

[James Wohlgamuth via Talk]

On 3/16/17, Vaughan Dodd via Talk  wrote:
> Aspects of this probably do make sense.
>
> However: third party screen reader development is expensive and is
> continuously being challenged by Microsoft and other software players.
>
> development with respect to Window-Eyes being in decline is in large measure
> due to the Window-Eyes for Office scheme.  Nobody buys Window-Eyes anymore,
> so VFO has to inject bankers' capital into this alternative to JFW.
>
>
> I do agree that piracy is a problem for both screen readers, and that JFW is
> too expensive.  So - in principle, I like the hybrid idea.  Just don't think
> it can be free.
>
> Vaughan.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk
> [mailto:talk-bounces+vaughan.dodd001=msd.govt...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
> Behalf Of Joshua Kennedy via Talk
> Sent: Friday, 17 March 2017 3:30 a.m.
> To: talk@lists.window-eyes.com
> Subject: best of w-e with jaws for office?
>
> hi
> Since we have window-eyes for office I think now VFO also should come out
> with a jaws for office or just take window-eyes and fold it into a jaws for
> office. because window-eyes does not have touch support, jaws does. jaws has
> the best OCR, window-eyes does not. and they could just port the current
> window-eyes script system over to jaws so you could either use window-eyes
> apps as always or your current jaws scripts. this would also give jaws
> native espeak support, support for more tts languages, and much much more.
> and this would also dramatically reduce the need for some people to feel
> they have to use cracked copies of jaws because its too expensive. a jaws
> for office or a window eyes for office folded into the main jaws screen
> reader would greatly reduce screen reader piracy all around i think. so what
> do you all think? combine the best of window eyes with jaws and have a free
> jaws for office option? oh yeah and jaws web support i think is the best.
> combine or just fold th
>  e best of window-eyes into jaws and you'd have a great paid jaws, and a
> great free jaws for office option.
>
> Josh Kennedy
>
> ___
> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author
> and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>
> For membership options, visit
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/vaughan.dodd001%40msd.govt.nz.
> For subscription options, visit
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> List archives can be found at
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>
> ---
> This email and any attachments may contain information that is confidential
> and subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, any
> use, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this email and
> attachments is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please
> notify the author immediately and erase all copies of the email and
> attachments. The Ministry of Social Development accepts no responsibility
> for changes made to this message or attachments after transmission from the
> Ministry.
>
> ---
> ___
> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author
> and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>
> For membership options, visit
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/wohlggie%40gmail.com.
> For subscription options, visit
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
> List archives can be found at
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>

Hay, I love y Window-Eyes, and yes it is still working almost
flawlessly for me so I say leave it a lone and if you want JAWs
purchase it! When Window-Eyes seases to work for me I will consider
purchasing JAWS.  Until then don't mess with my window-eyes! BTW, if I
have to make the change at some point in the future,I will just make
it and let it go at that.  THANKS A Great Day! de
.
___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author 
and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

For membership options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com.
For subscription options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
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http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com

RE: best of w-e with jaws for office?

[Vaughan Dodd via Talk]

Aspects of this probably do make sense.

However: third party screen reader development is expensive and is continuously 
being challenged by Microsoft and other software players.

development with respect to Window-Eyes being in decline is in large measure 
due to the Window-Eyes for Office scheme.  Nobody buys Window-Eyes anymore, so 
VFO has to inject bankers' capital into this alternative to JFW.


I do agree that piracy is a problem for both screen readers, and that JFW is 
too expensive.  So - in principle, I like the hybrid idea.  Just don't think it 
can be free.

Vaughan.

 

-Original Message-
From: Talk 
[mailto:talk-bounces+vaughan.dodd001=msd.govt...@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
Behalf Of Joshua Kennedy via Talk
Sent: Friday, 17 March 2017 3:30 a.m.
To: talk@lists.window-eyes.com
Subject: best of w-e with jaws for office?

hi
Since we have window-eyes for office I think now VFO also should come out with 
a jaws for office or just take window-eyes and fold it into a jaws for office. 
because window-eyes does not have touch support, jaws does. jaws has the best 
OCR, window-eyes does not. and they could just port the current window-eyes 
script system over to jaws so you could either use window-eyes apps as always 
or your current jaws scripts. this would also give jaws native espeak support, 
support for more tts languages, and much much more. and this would also 
dramatically reduce the need for some people to feel they have to use cracked 
copies of jaws because its too expensive. a jaws for office or a window eyes 
for office folded into the main jaws screen reader would greatly reduce screen 
reader piracy all around i think. so what do you all think? combine the best of 
window eyes with jaws and have a free jaws for office option? oh yeah and jaws 
web support i think is the best. combine or just fold th
 e best of window-eyes into jaws and you'd have a great paid jaws, and a great 
free jaws for office option.

Josh Kennedy

___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author 
and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

For membership options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/vaughan.dodd001%40msd.govt.nz.
For subscription options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
List archives can be found at 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com

---
This email and any attachments may contain information that is confidential and 
subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, 
dissemination, distribution or duplication of this email and attachments is 
prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify the author 
immediately and erase all copies of the email and attachments. The Ministry of 
Social Development accepts no responsibility for changes made to this message 
or attachments after transmission from the Ministry.

---
___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author 
and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

For membership options, visit 
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List archives can be found at 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com

Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Evan Reese via Talk]

Hmmm, how about a screenreader company that charges more for their product 
than a decent desktop these days? Some people might call that being 
"penalized" simply to access their PC, something any sighted person can do 
right out of the box.

Evan

-Original Message- 
From: Pamela Dominguez via Talk

Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 5:02 PM
To: Butch Bussen ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

Yes.  Somebody said about something:  "The only way it's hard is if you make
it hard".  Well, it seems to me that that is quight subjective.  He is
speaking from his own experience.  Those of us who don't rush to get every
little new thing don't think that way.  I don't see why we should be
penalized because we don't want a touch screen or whatever the newest thing
is.  Pam.

-Original Message- 
From: Butch Bussen via Talk

Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 1:11 PM
To: Russ Kiehne ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Reeva Webb
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

I understand that.  And that is great, for you.  I just can't deal with
touch screens.  Give me buttons to push.  As I said in an earlier note,
the same solution isn't for everyone.  You guys and your i whatevers
think they solve the world's access problems.  Perhaps for some they do.
 I can't figure out how to run my IPod.
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Thu, 16 Mar 2017, Russ Kiehne
via Talk wrote:

In my case, my ipad mini 4 has taken the place of my victor reader stream 
first generation, Booksense standard and plextalk pocket.  It has more 
volume, better battery life and better sound.  It does everything they do 
and a lot more.


-Original Message- From: Reeva Webb via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:54 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List ; Dennis Long
Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

You know, this gets me thinking esp. With the conversations I've had in 
the

past week. We're getting what we wanted for years. We can go into a
electronics store and buy a iphone, a android phone, a mac, a chromebook
and soon windows computers  with accessibility out of the box. You don't
have to spend extra money unless you want to.  While what is happening 
with

zt fusion, something I spent my own money to buy makes me mad. I'm
seriously considering just going fully with mainstream products. I find
myself using my android devices more and pulling out my laptop less.


"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Mar 16, 2017 1:18 AM, "Dennis Long via Talk" 


wrote:

I agree with you completely!

-Original Message-
From: Talk 
[mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]

On Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:12 PM
To: Tony C; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

Problem is you i phone users think everyone can use one and can use a 
touch

screen.  They are not for everyone.  I think blind folks fall into that
worse than any group.  if it works for me, it is great for everyone
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:


 I really think that in the very near future "adaptive" technology will
 become a thing of the past. We aren't there yet, but more and more
 things are becoming voice activated, and voice commanded. The market
 for such special items as Window-eyes and Jaws is waining. Heck, the I
 phone out of the box gives the blind user access to GPS, internet
 searches, txt messageing, etc, without the need of an expensive piece
 of software that at best in moderately useable. It's just a matter of

time.


 -Original Message- From: Vaughan Dodd via Talk
 Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:05 PM
 To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
 Subject: Failure to hold VFO to account

 Greetings all.

 I've just flicked through the latest edition of Access World from AFB.
 We are promised CSUN updates in April.

 In the 21st  Century, and with our accessible technology industry
 going through significant change, not to mention the demise of the
 pony express, the failure of someone to get down and dirty with VFO
 leadership suggests to me that we are being let down by credible

information sources.


 Quite reasonably, AFB promotes its sponsorship of the Blind Bargain
 blogs concerning CSUN events and exhibits, but these don't cut it 
iehter.


 One of the disappointing things about services like Apple Vis is that
 although often people exchange useful information, the leadership
 fails to critique the shortcomings of Apple with respect to its
 developments in the specialty area of access.  The same seems true on
 the Windows side of the divide - with no one prepared to critique VFO's

behaviours.


 Vaughan.

 ---
 This email and any attachments may contain information 

Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Pamela Dominguez via Talk]

Yes.  Somebody said about something:  "The only way it's hard is if you make 
it hard".  Well, it seems to me that that is quight subjective.  He is 
speaking from his own experience.  Those of us who don't rush to get every 
little new thing don't think that way.  I don't see why we should be 
penalized because we don't want a touch screen or whatever the newest thing 
is.  Pam.


-Original Message- 
From: Butch Bussen via Talk

Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 1:11 PM
To: Russ Kiehne ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Reeva Webb
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

I understand that.  And that is great, for you.  I just can't deal with
touch screens.  Give me buttons to push.  As I said in an earlier note,
the same solution isn't for everyone.  You guys and your i whatevers
think they solve the world's access problems.  Perhaps for some they do.
 I can't figure out how to run my IPod.
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Thu, 16 Mar 2017, Russ Kiehne
via Talk wrote:

In my case, my ipad mini 4 has taken the place of my victor reader stream 
first generation, Booksense standard and plextalk pocket.  It has more 
volume, better battery life and better sound.  It does everything they do 
and a lot more.


-Original Message- From: Reeva Webb via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:54 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List ; Dennis Long
Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

You know, this gets me thinking esp. With the conversations I've had in 
the

past week. We're getting what we wanted for years. We can go into a
electronics store and buy a iphone, a android phone, a mac, a chromebook
and soon windows computers  with accessibility out of the box. You don't
have to spend extra money unless you want to.  While what is happening 
with

zt fusion, something I spent my own money to buy makes me mad. I'm
seriously considering just going fully with mainstream products. I find
myself using my android devices more and pulling out my laptop less.


"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Mar 16, 2017 1:18 AM, "Dennis Long via Talk" 


wrote:

I agree with you completely!

-Original Message-
From: Talk 
[mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]

On Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:12 PM
To: Tony C; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

Problem is you i phone users think everyone can use one and can use a 
touch

screen.  They are not for everyone.  I think blind folks fall into that
worse than any group.  if it works for me, it is great for everyone
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:


 I really think that in the very near future "adaptive" technology will
 become a thing of the past. We aren't there yet, but more and more
 things are becoming voice activated, and voice commanded. The market
 for such special items as Window-eyes and Jaws is waining. Heck, the I
 phone out of the box gives the blind user access to GPS, internet
 searches, txt messageing, etc, without the need of an expensive piece
 of software that at best in moderately useable. It's just a matter of

time.


 -Original Message- From: Vaughan Dodd via Talk
 Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:05 PM
 To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
 Subject: Failure to hold VFO to account

 Greetings all.

 I've just flicked through the latest edition of Access World from AFB.
 We are promised CSUN updates in April.

 In the 21st  Century, and with our accessible technology industry
 going through significant change, not to mention the demise of the
 pony express, the failure of someone to get down and dirty with VFO
 leadership suggests to me that we are being let down by credible

information sources.


 Quite reasonably, AFB promotes its sponsorship of the Blind Bargain
 blogs concerning CSUN events and exhibits, but these don't cut it 
iehter.


 One of the disappointing things about services like Apple Vis is that
 although often people exchange useful information, the leadership
 fails to critique the shortcomings of Apple with respect to its
 developments in the specialty area of access.  The same seems true on
 the Windows side of the divide - with no one prepared to critique VFO's

behaviours.


 Vaughan.

 ---
 This email and any attachments may contain information that is
 confidential and subject to legal privilege. If you are not the
 intended recipient, any use, dissemination, distribution or
 duplication of this email and attachments is prohibited. If you have
 received this email in error please notify the author immediately and
 erase all copies of the email and attachments. The Ministry of Social
 Development accepts no responsibility for changes made to this message 
or

attachments 

Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Butch Bussen via Talk]

I understand that.  And that is great, for you.  I just can't deal with 
touch screens.  Give me buttons to push.  As I said in an earlier note, 
the same solution isn't for everyone.  You guys and your i whatevers 
think they solve the world's access problems.  Perhaps for some they do.

 I can't figure out how to run my IPod.
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Thu, 16 Mar 2017, Russ Kiehne 
via Talk wrote:


In my case, my ipad mini 4 has taken the place of my victor reader stream 
first generation, Booksense standard and plextalk pocket.  It has more 
volume, better battery life and better sound.  It does everything they do and 
a lot more.


-Original Message- From: Reeva Webb via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:54 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List ; Dennis Long
Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

You know, this gets me thinking esp. With the conversations I've had in the
past week. We're getting what we wanted for years. We can go into a
electronics store and buy a iphone, a android phone, a mac, a chromebook
and soon windows computers  with accessibility out of the box. You don't
have to spend extra money unless you want to.  While what is happening with
zt fusion, something I spent my own money to buy makes me mad. I'm
seriously considering just going fully with mainstream products. I find
myself using my android devices more and pulling out my laptop less.


"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Mar 16, 2017 1:18 AM, "Dennis Long via Talk" 
wrote:

I agree with you completely!

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:12 PM
To: Tony C; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

Problem is you i phone users think everyone can use one and can use a touch
screen.  They are not for everyone.  I think blind folks fall into that
worse than any group.  if it works for me, it is great for everyone
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:


 I really think that in the very near future "adaptive" technology will
 become a thing of the past. We aren't there yet, but more and more
 things are becoming voice activated, and voice commanded. The market
 for such special items as Window-eyes and Jaws is waining. Heck, the I
 phone out of the box gives the blind user access to GPS, internet
 searches, txt messageing, etc, without the need of an expensive piece
 of software that at best in moderately useable. It's just a matter of

time.


 -Original Message- From: Vaughan Dodd via Talk
 Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:05 PM
 To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
 Subject: Failure to hold VFO to account

 Greetings all.

 I've just flicked through the latest edition of Access World from AFB.
 We are promised CSUN updates in April.

 In the 21st  Century, and with our accessible technology industry
 going through significant change, not to mention the demise of the
 pony express, the failure of someone to get down and dirty with VFO
 leadership suggests to me that we are being let down by credible

information sources.


 Quite reasonably, AFB promotes its sponsorship of the Blind Bargain
 blogs concerning CSUN events and exhibits, but these don't cut it iehter.

 One of the disappointing things about services like Apple Vis is that
 although often people exchange useful information, the leadership
 fails to critique the shortcomings of Apple with respect to its
 developments in the specialty area of access.  The same seems true on
 the Windows side of the divide - with no one prepared to critique VFO's

behaviours.


 Vaughan.


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 erase all copies of the email and attachments. The Ministry of Social
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RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Joseph Norton via Talk]

While I think this is a good thing, Narrator doesn't have near the
responsiveness that W.E. or JAWS has, though it's improving.  The main
reason for any of the actual screen-readers, like W.E. or JFW is the fact
that you can script for them and handle certain situations that Narrator
just can't handle.

Take for example the BARD Express program from NLS.

Actually, W.E. is the best working program with BARD Express.  In fact, BARD
Express works worst of all with Narrator and SuperNova.  Narrator, for sure,
still has a lot of work to do.


-Original Message-
From: Talk
[mailto:talk-bounces+joseph.norton=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Reeva Webb via Talk
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 2:54 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List ; Dennis Long

Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

You know, this gets me thinking esp. With the conversations I've had in the
past week. We're getting what we wanted for years. We can go into a
electronics store and buy a iphone, a android phone, a mac, a chromebook and
soon windows computers  with accessibility out of the box. You don't have to
spend extra money unless you want to.  While what is happening with zt
fusion, something I spent my own money to buy makes me mad. I'm seriously
considering just going fully with mainstream products. I find myself using
my android devices more and pulling out my laptop less.


"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Mar 16, 2017 1:18 AM, "Dennis Long via Talk" 
wrote:

I agree with you completely!

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:12 PM
To: Tony C; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

Problem is you i phone users think everyone can use one and can use a touch
screen.  They are not for everyone.  I think blind folks fall into that
worse than any group.  if it works for me, it is great for everyone
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:

> I really think that in the very near future "adaptive" technology will 
> become a thing of the past. We aren't there yet, but more and more 
> things are becoming voice activated, and voice commanded. The market 
> for such special items as Window-eyes and Jaws is waining. Heck, the I 
> phone out of the box gives the blind user access to GPS, internet 
> searches, txt messageing, etc, without the need of an expensive piece 
> of software that at best in moderately useable. It's just a matter of
time.
>
> -Original Message- From: Vaughan Dodd via Talk
> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:05 PM
> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
> Subject: Failure to hold VFO to account
>
> Greetings all.
>
> I've just flicked through the latest edition of Access World from AFB.
> We are promised CSUN updates in April.
>
> In the 21st  Century, and with our accessible technology industry 
> going through significant change, not to mention the demise of the 
> pony express, the failure of someone to get down and dirty with VFO 
> leadership suggests to me that we are being let down by credible
information sources.
>
> Quite reasonably, AFB promotes its sponsorship of the Blind Bargain 
> blogs concerning CSUN events and exhibits, but these don't cut it iehter.
>
> One of the disappointing things about services like Apple Vis is that 
> although often people exchange useful information, the leadership 
> fails to critique the shortcomings of Apple with respect to its 
> developments in the specialty area of access.  The same seems true on 
> the Windows side of the divide - with no one prepared to critique 
> VFO's
behaviours.
>
> Vaughan.
>
>
> ---
> This email and any attachments may contain information that is 
> confidential and subject to legal privilege. If you are not the 
> intended recipient, any use, dissemination, distribution or 
> duplication of this email and attachments is prohibited. If you have 
> received this email in error please notify the author immediately and 
> erase all copies of the email and attachments. The Ministry of Social 
> Development accepts no responsibility for changes made to this message 
> or
attachments after transmission from the Ministry.
>
> ---
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> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the 
> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>
> For membership options, visit
>
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/tch828%40media
combb.net.
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> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
> List archives can be found at

Re: best of w-e with jaws for office?

[Joshua Kennedy via Talk]

yes that could work. then we'd also have touch support, braille support 
and stuff. but still as far as i know, no contracted braille input from 
braille displays.




On 3/16/2017 11:23 AM, Brenda wrote:

Josh, that may well happen, but...


What about those of us who don't use Windows Office? On my win 10 
machine I use Jart or notepad or wordpad.  I don't like jowls and 
don't want to and can't afford to pay for it.



Since Microsoft has already worked with GW to connect Window-eyes with 
office, what about merging Window-eyes with Narrator.  This would give 
win10 users who love window-eyes a  screen reader with the best of 
Narrator and Window eyes.



Just a thought.


Brenda


On 3/16/2017 10:29 AM, Joshua Kennedy via Talk wrote:

hi
Since we have window-eyes for office I think now VFO also should come 
out with a jaws for office or just take window-eyes and fold it into 
a jaws for office. because window-eyes does not have touch support, 
jaws does. jaws has the best OCR, window-eyes does not. and they 
could just port the current window-eyes script system over to jaws so 
you could either use window-eyes apps as always or your current jaws 
scripts. this would also give jaws native espeak support, support for 
more tts languages, and much much more. and this would also 
dramatically reduce the need for some people to feel they have to use 
cracked copies of jaws because its too expensive. a jaws for office 
or a window eyes for office folded into the main jaws screen reader 
would greatly reduce screen reader piracy all around i think. so what 
do you all think? combine the best of window eyes with jaws and have 
a free jaws for office option? oh yeah and jaws web support i think 
is the best. combine or just fold the best of window-eyes into jaws 
and you'd have a great paid jaws, and a great free jaws for office 
option.


Josh Kennedy

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Re: best of w-e with jaws for office?

[Brenda via Talk]

Josh, that may well happen, but...


What about those of us who don't use Windows Office? On my win 10 
machine I use Jart or notepad or wordpad.  I don't like jowls and don't 
want to and can't afford to pay for it.



Since Microsoft has already worked with GW to connect Window-eyes with 
office, what about merging Window-eyes with Narrator.  This would give 
win10 users who love window-eyes a  screen reader with the best of 
Narrator and Window eyes.



Just a thought.


Brenda


On 3/16/2017 10:29 AM, Joshua Kennedy via Talk wrote:

hi
Since we have window-eyes for office I think now VFO also should come 
out with a jaws for office or just take window-eyes and fold it into a 
jaws for office. because window-eyes does not have touch support, jaws 
does. jaws has the best OCR, window-eyes does not. and they could just 
port the current window-eyes script system over to jaws so you could 
either use window-eyes apps as always or your current jaws scripts. 
this would also give jaws native espeak support, support for more tts 
languages, and much much more. and this would also dramatically reduce 
the need for some people to feel they have to use cracked copies of 
jaws because its too expensive. a jaws for office or a window eyes for 
office folded into the main jaws screen reader would greatly reduce 
screen reader piracy all around i think. so what do you all think? 
combine the best of window eyes with jaws and have a free jaws for 
office option? oh yeah and jaws web support i think is the best. 
combine or just fold the best of window-eyes into jaws and you'd have 
a great paid jaws, and a great free jaws for office option.


Josh Kennedy

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Re: Touch screen phones

[Pamela Dominguez via Talk]

Yes, that must be horrible.  Because I can tell you that it's bad enough to 
write on a braille keyboard when the bus is going over bumps.  Pam.


-Original Message- 
From: Matthew Chao via Talk

Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 8:27 AM
To: Reg Webb ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Touch screen phones

Yes, amazing how physical keyboards are more accurate.  And oh yes, try
sending a text message on a touchscreen while riding along in a car, bus
or train and getting jostled all the while. Lots of fun, not.


As for GW, I still like Window-Eyes, and will use it until it's no
more.  And I DON'T LIKE JAWS OR THAT ORGANIZATION'S ATTITUDE.


You know what they say about impressions: a bad impression can be made
in 15-30 seconds, and take forever to fix.--Matt, N1IBB.




On 3/16/2017 7:40 AM, Reg Webb via Talk wrote:

Hi Matt

Yes, I find my phone bluetoothed to a Braille note taker, while being a
bit more cumbersome, is much more reliable, and writing in grade 2
braille is much faster (for me at least) than I could ever achieve via
an on screen keyboard.

Incidentally, my note taker is a Braille Sense Plus, which I became
aware of because it was developed in conjunction with GW Micro.  As I
bought mine, GW dropped it, or was dropped (sad).



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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Tony C via Talk]

You know they make a rubber keyboard that you can roll up and is about the 
size of one of those little short umbrellas when it's rolled up and when 
unrolled is the size of a standard keyboard...


-Original Message- 
From: Pamela Dominguez via Talk

Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 9:49 AM
To: Butch Bussen ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

Yes, I agree with you on that.  I don't have any touch screen devices.  I
think my laptop can be used in that way, but I am happy to say that it still
has a keyboard.  And when my cell phone goes, I will be getting another one
with buttons.  Pam.

-Original Message- 
From: Butch Bussen via Talk

Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:12 PM
To: Tony C ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

Problem is you i phone users think everyone can use one and can use a
touch screen.  They are not for everyone.  I think blind folks fall into
that worse than any group.  if it works for me, it is great for
everyone
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:

I really think that in the very near future "adaptive" technology will 
become a thing of the past. We aren't there yet, but more and more things 
are becoming voice activated, and voice commanded. The market for such 
special items as Window-eyes and Jaws is waining. Heck, the I phone out of 
the box gives the blind user access to GPS, internet searches, txt 
messageing, etc, without the need of an expensive piece of software that 
at best in moderately useable. It's just a matter of time.


-Original Message- From: Vaughan Dodd via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:05 PM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: Failure to hold VFO to account

Greetings all.

I've just flicked through the latest edition of Access World from AFB.  We 
are promised CSUN updates in April.


In the 21st  Century, and with our accessible technology industry going 
through significant change, not to mention the demise of the pony express, 
the failure of someone to get down and dirty with VFO leadership suggests 
to me that we are being let down by credible information sources.


Quite reasonably, AFB promotes its sponsorship of the Blind Bargain blogs 
concerning CSUN events and exhibits, but these don't cut it iehter.


One of the disappointing things about services like Apple Vis is that 
although often people exchange useful information, the leadership fails to 
critique the shortcomings of Apple with respect to its developments in the 
specialty area of access.  The same seems true on the Windows side of the 
divide - with no one prepared to critique VFO's behaviours.


Vaughan.


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email and attachments. The Ministry of Social Development accepts no 
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and 

Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Pamela Dominguez via Talk]

Yes, I agree with you on that.  I don't have any touch screen devices.  I 
think my laptop can be used in that way, but I am happy to say that it still 
has a keyboard.  And when my cell phone goes, I will be getting another one 
with buttons.  Pam.


-Original Message- 
From: Butch Bussen via Talk

Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:12 PM
To: Tony C ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

Problem is you i phone users think everyone can use one and can use a
touch screen.  They are not for everyone.  I think blind folks fall into
that worse than any group.  if it works for me, it is great for
everyone
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:

I really think that in the very near future "adaptive" technology will 
become a thing of the past. We aren't there yet, but more and more things 
are becoming voice activated, and voice commanded. The market for such 
special items as Window-eyes and Jaws is waining. Heck, the I phone out of 
the box gives the blind user access to GPS, internet searches, txt 
messageing, etc, without the need of an expensive piece of software that 
at best in moderately useable. It's just a matter of time.


-Original Message- From: Vaughan Dodd via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:05 PM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: Failure to hold VFO to account

Greetings all.

I've just flicked through the latest edition of Access World from AFB.  We 
are promised CSUN updates in April.


In the 21st  Century, and with our accessible technology industry going 
through significant change, not to mention the demise of the pony express, 
the failure of someone to get down and dirty with VFO leadership suggests 
to me that we are being let down by credible information sources.


Quite reasonably, AFB promotes its sponsorship of the Blind Bargain blogs 
concerning CSUN events and exhibits, but these don't cut it iehter.


One of the disappointing things about services like Apple Vis is that 
although often people exchange useful information, the leadership fails to 
critique the shortcomings of Apple with respect to its developments in the 
specialty area of access.  The same seems true on the Windows side of the 
divide - with no one prepared to critique VFO's behaviours.


Vaughan.


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Re: best of w-e with jaws for office?

[Joshua Kennedy via Talk]

yes i agree. but its worth a shot none the less.



On 3/16/2017 10:32 AM, Reeva Webb wrote:


Don't hold your breath for this to happen.


"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never 
promised night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls 
Of Jericho


Reeva


On Mar 16, 2017 9:29 AM, "Joshua Kennedy via Talk" 
> wrote:


hi
Since we have window-eyes for office I think now VFO also should
come out with a jaws for office or just take window-eyes and fold
it into a jaws for office. because window-eyes does not have touch
support, jaws does. jaws has the best OCR, window-eyes does not.
and they could just port the current window-eyes script system
over to jaws so you could either use window-eyes apps as always or
your current jaws scripts. this would also give jaws native espeak
support, support for more tts languages, and much much more. and
this would also dramatically reduce the need for some people to
feel they have to use cracked copies of jaws because its too
expensive. a jaws for office or a window eyes for office folded
into the main jaws screen reader would greatly reduce screen
reader piracy all around i think. so what do you all think?
combine the best of window eyes with jaws and have a free jaws for
office option? oh yeah and jaws web support i think is the best.
combine or just fold the best of window-eyes into jaws and you'd
have a great paid jaws, and a great free jaws for office option.

Josh Kennedy

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Re: best of w-e with jaws for office?

[Reeva Webb via Talk]

Don't hold your breath for this to happen.


"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Mar 16, 2017 9:29 AM, "Joshua Kennedy via Talk" <
talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote:

> hi
> Since we have window-eyes for office I think now VFO also should come out
> with a jaws for office or just take window-eyes and fold it into a jaws for
> office. because window-eyes does not have touch support, jaws does. jaws
> has the best OCR, window-eyes does not. and they could just port the
> current window-eyes script system over to jaws so you could either use
> window-eyes apps as always or your current jaws scripts. this would also
> give jaws native espeak support, support for more tts languages, and much
> much more. and this would also dramatically reduce the need for some people
> to feel they have to use cracked copies of jaws because its too expensive.
> a jaws for office or a window eyes for office folded into the main jaws
> screen reader would greatly reduce screen reader piracy all around i think.
> so what do you all think? combine the best of window eyes with jaws and
> have a free jaws for office option? oh yeah and jaws web support i think is
> the best. combine or just fold the best of window-eyes into jaws and you'd
> have a great paid jaws, and a great free jaws for office option.
>
> Josh Kennedy
>
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best of w-e with jaws for office?

[Joshua Kennedy via Talk]

hi
Since we have window-eyes for office I think now VFO also should come 
out with a jaws for office or just take window-eyes and fold it into a 
jaws for office. because window-eyes does not have touch support, jaws 
does. jaws has the best OCR, window-eyes does not. and they could just 
port the current window-eyes script system over to jaws so you could 
either use window-eyes apps as always or your current jaws scripts. this 
would also give jaws native espeak support, support for more tts 
languages, and much much more. and this would also dramatically reduce 
the need for some people to feel they have to use cracked copies of jaws 
because its too expensive. a jaws for office or a window eyes for office 
folded into the main jaws screen reader would greatly reduce screen 
reader piracy all around i think. so what do you all think? combine the 
best of window eyes with jaws and have a free jaws for office option? oh 
yeah and jaws web support i think is the best. combine or just fold the 
best of window-eyes into jaws and you'd have a great paid jaws, and a 
great free jaws for office option.


Josh Kennedy

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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Russ Kiehne via Talk]

In my case, my ipad mini 4 has taken the place of my victor reader stream 
first generation, Booksense standard and plextalk pocket.  It has more 
volume, better battery life and better sound.  It does everything they do 
and a lot more.


-Original Message- 
From: Reeva Webb via Talk

Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:54 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List ; Dennis Long
Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

You know, this gets me thinking esp. With the conversations I've had in the
past week. We're getting what we wanted for years. We can go into a
electronics store and buy a iphone, a android phone, a mac, a chromebook
and soon windows computers  with accessibility out of the box. You don't
have to spend extra money unless you want to.  While what is happening with
zt fusion, something I spent my own money to buy makes me mad. I'm
seriously considering just going fully with mainstream products. I find
myself using my android devices more and pulling out my laptop less.


"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Mar 16, 2017 1:18 AM, "Dennis Long via Talk" 
wrote:

I agree with you completely!

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:12 PM
To: Tony C; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

Problem is you i phone users think everyone can use one and can use a touch
screen.  They are not for everyone.  I think blind folks fall into that
worse than any group.  if it works for me, it is great for everyone
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:


I really think that in the very near future "adaptive" technology will
become a thing of the past. We aren't there yet, but more and more
things are becoming voice activated, and voice commanded. The market
for such special items as Window-eyes and Jaws is waining. Heck, the I
phone out of the box gives the blind user access to GPS, internet
searches, txt messageing, etc, without the need of an expensive piece
of software that at best in moderately useable. It's just a matter of

time.


-Original Message- From: Vaughan Dodd via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:05 PM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: Failure to hold VFO to account

Greetings all.

I've just flicked through the latest edition of Access World from AFB.
We are promised CSUN updates in April.

In the 21st  Century, and with our accessible technology industry
going through significant change, not to mention the demise of the
pony express, the failure of someone to get down and dirty with VFO
leadership suggests to me that we are being let down by credible

information sources.


Quite reasonably, AFB promotes its sponsorship of the Blind Bargain
blogs concerning CSUN events and exhibits, but these don't cut it iehter.

One of the disappointing things about services like Apple Vis is that
although often people exchange useful information, the leadership
fails to critique the shortcomings of Apple with respect to its
developments in the specialty area of access.  The same seems true on
the Windows side of the divide - with no one prepared to critique VFO's

behaviours.


Vaughan.


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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Mike Rogers via Talk]

I just got an android in Nov.  I really like it and use talk back to send 
tests.  It's not perfect, but it's a step in the right direction.  I'm76 and 
fairly computer stupid, but am learning.  I put a braille dot where the speaker 
phone button is, and it works pretty well.  Doesn't replace W.E., but is handy.



www.harmonicaworkshops.com
www.woodeneyemusic.com


On Thu, 16 Mar 2017 01:54:26 -0500
Reeva Webb via Talk  wrote:

> You know, this gets me thinking esp. With the conversations I've had in the
> past week. We're getting what we wanted for years. We can go into a
> electronics store and buy a iphone, a android phone, a mac, a chromebook
> and soon windows computers  with accessibility out of the box. You don't
> have to spend extra money unless you want to.  While what is happening with
> zt fusion, something I spent my own money to buy makes me mad. I'm
> seriously considering just going fully with mainstream products. I find
> myself using my android devices more and pulling out my laptop less.
> 
> 
> "the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
> night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho
> 
> Reeva
> 
> On Mar 16, 2017 1:18 AM, "Dennis Long via Talk" 
> wrote:
> 
> I agree with you completely!
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
> On Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk
> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:12 PM
> To: Tony C; Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account
> 
> Problem is you i phone users think everyone can use one and can use a touch
> screen.  They are not for everyone.  I think blind folks fall into that
> worse than any group.  if it works for me, it is great for everyone
> 73
> Butch
> WA0VJR
> Node 3148
> Wallace, ks.
> 
> 
> On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:
> 
> > I really think that in the very near future "adaptive" technology will
> > become a thing of the past. We aren't there yet, but more and more
> > things are becoming voice activated, and voice commanded. The market
> > for such special items as Window-eyes and Jaws is waining. Heck, the I
> > phone out of the box gives the blind user access to GPS, internet
> > searches, txt messageing, etc, without the need of an expensive piece
> > of software that at best in moderately useable. It's just a matter of
> time.
> >
> > -Original Message- From: Vaughan Dodd via Talk
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:05 PM
> > To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
> > Subject: Failure to hold VFO to account
> >
> > Greetings all.
> >
> > I've just flicked through the latest edition of Access World from AFB.
> > We are promised CSUN updates in April.
> >
> > In the 21st  Century, and with our accessible technology industry
> > going through significant change, not to mention the demise of the
> > pony express, the failure of someone to get down and dirty with VFO
> > leadership suggests to me that we are being let down by credible
> information sources.
> >
> > Quite reasonably, AFB promotes its sponsorship of the Blind Bargain
> > blogs concerning CSUN events and exhibits, but these don't cut it iehter.
> >
> > One of the disappointing things about services like Apple Vis is that
> > although often people exchange useful information, the leadership
> > fails to critique the shortcomings of Apple with respect to its
> > developments in the specialty area of access.  The same seems true on
> > the Windows side of the divide - with no one prepared to critique VFO's
> behaviours.
> >
> > Vaughan.
> >
> >
> > ---
> > This email and any attachments may contain information that is
> > confidential and subject to legal privilege. If you are not the
> > intended recipient, any use, dissemination, distribution or
> > duplication of this email and attachments is prohibited. If you have
> > received this email in error please notify the author immediately and
> > erase all copies of the email and attachments. The Ministry of Social
> > Development accepts no responsibility for changes made to this message or
> attachments after transmission from the Ministry.
> >
> > ---
> > ___
> > Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
> > author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
> >
> > For membership options, visit
> >
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/tch828%40media
> combb.net.
> > For subscription options, visit
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> > author 

Re: #CSUNATC17 Audio: Amazon Rekindles the Fire with Expanded VoiceView

[Russ Kiehne via Talk]

Here's what we don't know.  Will the VFO group continue support for 
window-eyes?  If not, we will be out of luck.


-Original Message- 
From: Lynn White

Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 8:29 AM
To: Russ Kiehne ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: #CSUNATC17 Audio: Amazon Rekindles the Fire with Expanded 
VoiceView


Be careful about this particular observation.  It's not available to
Jaws customers at this point.


While you eventually may be right, it's premature to say that
Window-Eyes customers are definitely SOL.


On 3/15/2017 8:29 AM, Russ Kiehne via Talk wrote:
After listening to the following podcast, it looks like window-eyes users 
are out of luck using the latest Kindle for pc program for windows.


Shelly Brisbin
Monday, 13-Mar-2017 6:22 PM ET

Amazon continues to expand the availability of their VoiceView screen 
reader

for mobile devices while also embarking on a variety of accessibility
initiatives. Shelly is joined by Peter Korn, Accessibility Architect for
Amazon and Jamie Teh, Executive Director for NVAccess for an interview 
which
features two live demos: reading kindle books with NVDA and accessing 
content
with VoiceView for Amazon's Fire TV. Other initiatives from Amazon are 
also discussed in this podcast.


http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/www.blindbargains.com/audio/170301_amazon.mp3
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Re: Touch screen phones

[Matthew Chao via Talk]

Yes, amazing how physical keyboards are more accurate.  And oh yes, try 
sending a text message on a touchscreen while riding along in a car, bus 
or train and getting jostled all the while. Lots of fun, not.



As for GW, I still like Window-Eyes, and will use it until it's no 
more.  And I DON'T LIKE JAWS OR THAT ORGANIZATION'S ATTITUDE.



You know what they say about impressions: a bad impression can be made 
in 15-30 seconds, and take forever to fix.--Matt, N1IBB.





On 3/16/2017 7:40 AM, Reg Webb via Talk wrote:

Hi Matt

Yes, I find my phone bluetoothed to a Braille note taker, while being a
bit more cumbersome, is much more reliable, and writing in grade 2
braille is much faster (for me at least) than I could ever achieve via
an on screen keyboard.

Incidentally, my note taker is a Braille Sense Plus, which I became
aware of because it was developed in conjunction with GW Micro.  As I
bought mine, GW dropped it, or was dropped (sad).



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RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk]

Could be that my fingers don't get cold enough!  But I sure do use a
touchscreen phone with cold fingers!  There's still good old winter here in
my Denver bush, though today's weather will be nearly 60Plus degrees F.  But
I'm constantly standing at a bus stop, and, when my bus is late, I'm having
to check and double check to be sure I had not missed it.  I have to do this
on the phone with cold fingers and sometimes with gloves on as well.  So, it
works for me, but everyone's mileages can and will indeed vary!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


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Touch screen phones

[Reg Webb via Talk]

Hi Matt

Yes, I find my phone bluetoothed to a Braille note taker, while being a
bit more cumbersome, is much more reliable, and writing in grade 2
braille is much faster (for me at least) than I could ever achieve via
an on screen keyboard.

Incidentally, my note taker is a Braille Sense Plus, which I became
aware of because it was developed in conjunction with GW Micro.  As I
bought mine, GW dropped it, or was dropped (sad).

-- 
Reg


On Thu, 16 Mar 2017 06:43:02 -0400
Matthew Chao via Talk  wrote:

> Personally, I miss the phones with physical buttons/keyboards. Try using a 
> touchscreen with cold fingers and see how far you get.  One size does not fit 
> all.--Matt, N1IBB.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 3/15/2017 11:12 PM, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:
> > Problem is you i phone users think everyone can use one and can use a > 
> > touch screen.  They are not for everyone.  I think blind folks fall > into 
> > that worse than any group.  if it works for me, it is great for > 
> > everyone
> > 73
> > Butch
> > WA0VJR
> > Node 3148
> > Wallace, ks.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:
> >
> >> I really think that in the very near future "adaptive" technology >> will 
> >> become a thing of the past. We aren't there yet, but more and >> more 
> >> things are becoming voice activated, and voice commanded. The >> market 
> >> for such special items as Window-eyes and Jaws is waining. >> Heck, the I 
> >> phone out of the box gives the blind user access to GPS, >> internet 
> >> searches, txt messageing, etc, without the need of an >> expensive piece 
> >> of software that at best in moderately useable. It's >> just a matter of 
> >> time.
> >>
> >> -Original Message- From: Vaughan Dodd via Talk
> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:05 PM
> >> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
> >> Subject: Failure to hold VFO to account
> >>
> >> Greetings all.
> >>
> >> I've just flicked through the latest edition of Access World from >> AFB.  
> >> We are promised CSUN updates in April.
> >>
> >> In the 21st  Century, and with our accessible technology industry >> going 
> >> through significant change, not to mention the demise of the >> pony 
> >> express, the failure of someone to get down and dirty with VFO >> 
> >> leadership suggests to me that we are being let down by credible >> 
> >> information sources.
> >>
> >> Quite reasonably, AFB promotes its sponsorship of the Blind Bargain >> 
> >> blogs concerning CSUN events and exhibits, but these don't cut it >> 
> >> iehter.
> >>
> >> One of the disappointing things about services like Apple Vis is that >> 
> >> although often people exchange useful information, the leadership >> fails 
> >> to critique the shortcomings of Apple with respect to its >> developments 
> >> in the specialty area of access. The same seems true on >> the Windows 
> >> side of the divide - with no one prepared to critique >> VFO's behaviours.
> >>
> >> Vaughan.
> >>
> >>
> >> ---
> >> This email and any attachments may contain information that is >> 
> >> confidential and subject to legal privilege. If you are not the >> 
> >> intended recipient, any use, dissemination, distribution or >> duplication 
> >> of this email and attachments is prohibited. If you have >> received this 
> >> email in error please notify the author immediately and >> erase all 
> >> copies of the email and attachments. The Ministry of Social >> Development 
> >> accepts no responsibility for changes made to this >> message or 
> >> attachments after transmission from the Ministry.
> >>
> >> ---
> >> ___
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> >> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
> >>
> >> For membership options, visit >> 
> >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/tch828%40mediacombb.net.
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> >>
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> > author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
> >
> > For 

Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Matthew Chao via Talk]

Personally, I miss the phones with physical buttons/keyboards. Try using 
a touchscreen with cold fingers and see how far you get.  One size does 
not fit all.--Matt, N1IBB.





On 3/15/2017 11:12 PM, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:
Problem is you i phone users think everyone can use one and can use a 
touch screen.  They are not for everyone.  I think blind folks fall 
into that worse than any group.  if it works for me, it is great for 
everyone

73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:

I really think that in the very near future "adaptive" technology 
will become a thing of the past. We aren't there yet, but more and 
more things are becoming voice activated, and voice commanded. The 
market for such special items as Window-eyes and Jaws is waining. 
Heck, the I phone out of the box gives the blind user access to GPS, 
internet searches, txt messageing, etc, without the need of an 
expensive piece of software that at best in moderately useable. It's 
just a matter of time.


-Original Message- From: Vaughan Dodd via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:05 PM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: Failure to hold VFO to account

Greetings all.

I've just flicked through the latest edition of Access World from 
AFB.  We are promised CSUN updates in April.


In the 21st  Century, and with our accessible technology industry 
going through significant change, not to mention the demise of the 
pony express, the failure of someone to get down and dirty with VFO 
leadership suggests to me that we are being let down by credible 
information sources.


Quite reasonably, AFB promotes its sponsorship of the Blind Bargain 
blogs concerning CSUN events and exhibits, but these don't cut it 
iehter.


One of the disappointing things about services like Apple Vis is that 
although often people exchange useful information, the leadership 
fails to critique the shortcomings of Apple with respect to its 
developments in the specialty area of access. The same seems true on 
the Windows side of the divide - with no one prepared to critique 
VFO's behaviours.


Vaughan.


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