[OSM-talk] Trouble with OpenAerialMap in Potlatch

[Jukka Rahkonen]

OpenAerialMap imagery do not show in Potlatch for some reason at the moment.
Yesterday it worked OK. Imagery is available from the OpenAerialMap web site
directly, and Yahoo works in Potlatch.

-Jukka Rahkonen-


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Re: [OSM-talk] Tracking with Palm and Tomtom

[Dirk-Lüder Kreie]

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Alex S. schrieb:
> Listas wrote:
>> Yes, I used to do my first tracking. I uploaded this trackings and try 
>> to edit the map. I make the way successfully but I can't see in the map. 
>> First time I do with play option but then I do with start option to make 
>> a real way. Needs it to be validated ??
> 
> The Mapnik (default) map only updates once a week.  The Osmarender map 
> updates upon request.

Requests are auto-generated by the server every 4 hours for osmarender
layer (tilesAtHome), based on new/changed nodes.

- --

Dirk-Lüder "Deelkar" Kreie
Bremen - 53.0952°N 8.8652°E

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[OSM-legal-talk] Browse-Wrap

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

   I'm still a bit taken aback by the perspective of possibly having
to cover any and all OSM data by a clickwrap or browsewrap agreement
page. Yes I know all the arguments about long term freedom vs. short
term freedom and so on, but if it comes to a situation where you have
to register with us and confirm that you agree to some terms or other,
then our site will look like the myriad of web sites that offer
so-called "free" stuff but only if you trade in your privacy and only
if you first read a 10 page license agreement (or you choose not to
read it but then you have the guilty feeling of never knowing if
you're still within it).

Such a practice would proably quickly land us on bugmenot.com;
bugmenot.com users would then somewhat "illegally" access our site (at
least they'd bypass our user authentication), and before we know it
we'd have a lot of users who don't feel part of the project but rather
feel that they have somehow cheated on us. Not a road I'd like to go
down really, I'd like the project to receive people with open arms and
not a little hole cut in the door where they first have to say the
password...

By accident I stumbled onto a boingboing post lamenting some
browsewrap license: 

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/02/24/crazy-agreement-on-c.html

Will I have to display something on my web sites in the future that
says:

"Note to OpenStreetMap contributors. READ CAREFULLY. By reading this
web site, you agree to release me from all obligations and waivers
arising from any and all NON-NEGOTIATED agreements, licenses,
terms-of-service, shrinkwrap, clickwrap, browsewrap, confidentiality,
non-disclosure, non-compete and acceptable use policies..."

But bitter jokes aside, IF the foundation wants to continue this ODL
stuff and actually initiate a license change, I would hope that it is
made very clear from the beginning how the contractual aspect of the
ODL will have to be communicated to the end-user and what restrictions
this causes for anyone redistributing OSM data.

Of course, the easiest thing, and the one I'd be happiest with, would
be to just ask every re-distributor to mention the source and license,
that would be no difference from today - but would that be sufficient
to make sure that the guy who gets the data from the re-distributor
enters into the desired contract?

Bye
Frederik 

-- 
Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00.09' E008°23.33'


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Re: [OSM-talk] [OAM-talk] "True Marble" 250m/px images

[Robin Paulson]

On 26/02/2008, Christopher Schmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > I've just noticed that a big set of imaginery has been released under a 
> CC-by
>  > license.
>  >
>  > See here:
>  > http://appdomains.slashgeo.org/article.pl?sid=08/02/25/1933212
>  > http://www.unearthedoutdoors.net/global_data/land_cover/download
>
>
> I don't see imagery, only land classification data (a la
>  http://ueod-globe.net/globe/GLC/GLC.16km.2700x1350.png), at least under
>  a creative commons license. Got a better URL I'm missing?

this popped up on the oam-talk mailing list a few minutes ago

it looks like it could be useful for auto-generating landuse= areas in OSM.

http://www.unearthedoutdoors.net/global_data/

gives a bit more info, but i can't find a legend

is it much of a technical issue to get this into .osm format?

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Re: [OSM-talk] do we have a map feature for this? :)

[Igor Brejc]

Stefan Baebler wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 1:38 PM, Alex S. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
> The lorry version of the same device would probably cost 10x as the
> regular car system. Truckers on the budget will opt for the cheapest
> device as long as there is no significant penalty for getting stuck
> between the trees.
>   
>   
I think we cannot make an idiot-proof navigation system :)
http://www.weeklygripe.co.uk/a169.asp
http://blog.taragana.com/index.php/archive/satellite-navigation-responsible-for-increased-accidents/
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,141180-page,1/article.html

It's still the driver who has to use his brains, since he controls the 
driving wheel. At least until something like this takes over: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darpa_challenge

Maybe reading this should help: 
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/safety/satnav-tentips.html

Igor

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Parking symbols: YUCK!

[Doru-Julian Bugariu]

Robert (Jamie) Munro schrieb:

Relationships are designed for grouping things together. Doing 
nothing is really option 2 - Dave Stubbs has proved it's possible to 
extract the data easily, I'm prepared to write the code to add the 
relationships if no one else will.


Please, please use relations for it and don't delete data entered by
people. Maybe there is a reason why the node is exactly on that position.

If a renderer doesn't want to use the relationship, they don't have 
to. If they need it and it isn't there, we're going to be stuck with

double symbols.


I think using relations is the right way to solve this problem. And of 
course all cases where something can be expressed by a node and an area 
at the same time: if there is a display_hint node (or howerver it will 
be called in the relation) a renderer can use it directly, else it can 
decide itself where to put the icon.



Julian



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Re: [OSM-talk] Editing with potlatch: T-Crossing

[Martin Trautmann]

Richard Fairhurst wrote:
> Martin Trautmann wrote:
> 
>> I did not understand how to remove the footway, make xyz a real T   
>> crossing and add this D-shaped footpath properly.
> 
> To join a way to another way in Potlatch, you simply hover over the  
> other way - its nodes will highlight in blue - and click it.

Hi Richard,

thanks, I tried, but I can't obtain a blue node from footpath to road.


> At present way 23092013 (z) is not connecting with 22741194 (x) or  
> 4599113 (y). If you click the erroneous point at the end of z and  
> press Delete/Backspace, you can then join it properly to where it  
> should be.

I managed to clear the y-shaped overlay by "x" and deleting nodes. But I 
am not able to combine a footpath and a road. The join via blue nodes is 
possible within highways only?

I tried to merge the three branches of the road. Potlach does not permit 
to merge T crossings?

Unfortunately I'd need at least one more zoom level in order to draw the 
proper details.

Will there be any chance to zoom in and out by scroll wheel?

Thanks,
Martin

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Re: [OSM-talk] Editing with potlatch: T-Crossing

[Richard Fairhurst]

Martin Trautmann wrote:

> I did not understand how to remove the footway, make xyz a real T   
> crossing and add this D-shaped footpath properly.

To join a way to another way in Potlatch, you simply hover over the  
other way - its nodes will highlight in blue - and click it.

At present way 23092013 (z) is not connecting with 22741194 (x) or  
4599113 (y). If you click the erroneous point at the end of z and  
press Delete/Backspace, you can then join it properly to where it  
should be.

(Same goes for the footpath to the east of it.)

> But maybe this example shows how difficult it is for a beginner to
> identify the proper commands and manual interaction!?

When I have time Potlatch will get its own built-in help. Until then  
there's the wiki pages which are linked from the start-up screen.

cheers
Richard


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[OSM-talk] Editing with potlatch: T-Crossing

[Martin Trautmann]

Hi all,

I do not understand yet how to use potlatch properly.

Check e.g. 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit.html?lat=48.02749&lon=7.864732&zoom=18

This should be an area which is composed from
  x
ffx
   f  x
      +y
   f  z
ffz
  z

x, y and z are residential roads. In fact, xyz all have the same name, which 
has to be fixed:



f is a footway. Unfortunately I'm not able to move the nodes as wanted. The 
current solution thus shows

x
 fffxz
f   yz
 
fz
 fff z
 z
 z

I did not understand how to remove the footway, make xyz a real T crossing and 
add this D-shaped footpath properly. I guess I missed the basic understanding 
how to delete/split/merge. But maybe this example shows how difficult it is for 
a beginner to identify the proper commands and manual interaction!?

How would I have to do it?
-- 
Ist Ihr Browser Vista-kompatibel? Jetzt die neuesten 
Browser-Versionen downloaden: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/browser

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Re: [OSM-talk] GIS hooligans at Perugia (GRASS - GFOSS Italian Meeting)

[Jonathan Bennett]

Niccolo Rigacci wrote:
> we tag unpaved traks as "highway" (sound very 
> confusing for Italian people!). 

It could have been worse -- we could have used 'thoroughfare' as the 
key, and then waited for non-Brits to pronounce it.

Jonathan (Jonobennett)

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Re: [OSM-talk] do we have a map feature for this? :)

[Stefan Baebler]

On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 1:38 PM, Alex S. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gregory wrote:
>  > Failing the sueing, somebody could make a SatNav that says on the box
>  > 'suitable for lorries' or an option to set your veichle type. (using OSM
>  > data why not).
The lorry version of the same device would probably cost 10x as the
regular car system. Truckers on the budget will opt for the cheapest
device as long as there is no significant penalty for getting stuck
between the trees.

>  I went looking for extra POIs for my TomTom and noticed that there is a
>  set of 'low clearance' POIs available for it.  I would not be surprised
>  if something similar was available for other units.

Ok, so some data does exist. But will the existing routing software
proparly take them into account when calculating the route? I believe
existing satnav software enables you to find such a POI nearby, and
even calculates the optimal route to it ... but am afraid this is not
the goal here. "Where is the nearest low bridge and how do i get to
it?" isn't exactly the question someone would ask. Or are there such
things as "POIs to avoid"?

greets,
Stefan

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Re: [OSM-talk] Parking symbols: YUCK!

[Robert (Jamie) Munro]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Dave Stubbs wrote:
| On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Robert (Jamie) Munro
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
|> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
|>  Hash: SHA1
|>
|>
|>
|> Dave Stubbs wrote:
|>  | On Sun, Feb 24, 2008 at 11:14 PM, Robert (Jamie) Munro
|>  | <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
|>  |> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
|>  |>  Hash: SHA1
|>  |>
|>  |>
|>  |>  Tom Hughes wrote:
|>  |>  | In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
|>  |>  |   David Earl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
|>  |>  |
|>  |>  |> Unfortunately removing the related node isn't going to work,
because
|>  |>  |> Mapnik won't then render parking symbols. And it is a lot of work
|>  to do
|>  |>  |> that.
|>  |>  |
|>  |>  | I believe it will - as far as I know mapnik has rendered those
|>  |>  | symbols for parking areas for some time.
|>  |>  |
|>  |>  |> Since we have contradictory behaviour in the two renderers we
can't
|>  |>  |> resolve this automatically unless osmarender can look and see on
|>  the fly
|>  |>  |> if there is a P node inside the area it is trying to do one for
|>  |>  |> automatically.
|>  |>  |
|>  |>  | I believe it is fundamentally wrong to add nodes which duplicate
|>  |>  | areas, although I know it is quite common.
|>  |>
|>  |>  I agree with this wholeheartedly. 1 item on the ground should be
1 item
|>  |>  in the database. What no one else has suggested is that if you
really
|>  |>  need to put something in the DB twice, then at least use a
relationship
|>  |>  to link the DB objects together.
|>  |>
|>  |>  I expect that someone with PostGIS knowledge can construct a
query to
|>  |>  quickly identify all the parking nodes inside parking areas and
produce
|>  |>  a list. I'm sure that many of us could write a perl or python
script to
|>  |>  take this list and delete or relate the nodes.
|>  |>
|>  |
|>  | As of the last planet there are 5881 such nodes. Interestingly there
|>  | are one or two car parks with two or three nodes in them.
|>  | My hugely overcomplicated postgis query could delete these for mapnik
|>  | in about 30 seconds if it was important to do so.
|>
|>  Can we have a vote on what to do next?
|>
|>  Options:
|>  1. Delete the nodes inside areas, make sure the areas are set
|>  access=public and any tagging (e.g. car park name) is copied across.
|>  2. Add a relationship between car park nodes and the area they are in
|>  and do nothing else.
|>  3. Add a relationship between car park nodes and the area they are in
|>  and change the tagging of the node somehow.
|>
|>  On that list, my vote would be, in order of preference, 1,3,2
|>
|
| You missed option 4:
|   - do nothing to the data and get the renderers etc to sort it out

You can add option 4 to the wiki if you want, as long as you can propose
how the renderers are going to sort it out. :-)

Relationships are designed for grouping things together. Doing nothing
is really option 2 - Dave Stubbs has proved it's possible to extract the
data easily, I'm prepared to write the code to add the relationships if
no one else will.

I can't see how option 4 could ever be preferable. If a renderer doesn't
want to use the relationship, they don't have to. If they need it and it
isn't there, we're going to be stuck with double symbols.

Robert (Jamie) Munro
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Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints

[80n]

On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 12:28 PM, graham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 80n wrote:
>
> >
> > BTW I just had a very successful experiment this morning using a
> > modified kitchen sponge
> > http://img.alibaba.com/photo/50923335/Kitchen_Sponge_Scourers.jpg as a
> > windshield for my bluetooth headset :)
>
> Ah, but we wanted the photo of you wearing it while explaining yourself
> to casual passers-by ;-)
>

I'm sure you want to see it:
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g51/80n80n/25022008429.jpg



>
> Graham
>
> >
> > 80n
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 12:00 PM, David Earl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > wrote:
> >
> > I've fixed the following that 80n reported (will be in tomorrow's
> JOSM
> > build):
> >
> > 1. Hang on trying to play audio
> >
> > It was indeed playing at a marker off the end of the sound track
> that
> > was the cause. It now tells you this instead of hanging.
> >
> > 2. Open WAV file dialogs don't remember their directory
> >
> > They do now. Note this is independent of other open file dialogs.
> >
> > 3. Short cut keys
> >
> > |<  F5, <<  F6, >>  F7, >|  F8, >.  . as before
> >
> > 4. Toggle icons but not the audio play head
> >
> > Right menu on layer, "Show/Hide Text/Icons" (2nd entry).
> >
> > [I usurped the previous "Show/Hide Text" for this, as previously
> button
> > marker layers didn't have text anyway, so the action was previously
> > redundant for such layers. It does leave the tiny X that a plain
> > waypoint marker uses to mark the point, but I'm sure this won't get
> in
> > the way. (One special case of general marker waypoints with icons
> will
> > be affected by this: if it is a problem for anyone let me know and
> I'll
> > make the behaviour optional. I don't actually know how you can
> produce
> > such a layer).]
> >
> > David
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> > ___
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> > talk@openstreetmap.org
> > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Parking symbols: YUCK!

[Dave Stubbs]

On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Robert (Jamie) Munro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>  Hash: SHA1
>
>
>
> Dave Stubbs wrote:
>  | On Sun, Feb 24, 2008 at 11:14 PM, Robert (Jamie) Munro
>  | <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  |> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>  |>  Hash: SHA1
>  |>
>  |>
>  |>  Tom Hughes wrote:
>  |>  | In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  |>  |   David Earl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  |>  |
>  |>  |> Unfortunately removing the related node isn't going to work, because
>  |>  |> Mapnik won't then render parking symbols. And it is a lot of work
>  to do
>  |>  |> that.
>  |>  |
>  |>  | I believe it will - as far as I know mapnik has rendered those
>  |>  | symbols for parking areas for some time.
>  |>  |
>  |>  |> Since we have contradictory behaviour in the two renderers we can't
>  |>  |> resolve this automatically unless osmarender can look and see on
>  the fly
>  |>  |> if there is a P node inside the area it is trying to do one for
>  |>  |> automatically.
>  |>  |
>  |>  | I believe it is fundamentally wrong to add nodes which duplicate
>  |>  | areas, although I know it is quite common.
>  |>
>  |>  I agree with this wholeheartedly. 1 item on the ground should be 1 item
>  |>  in the database. What no one else has suggested is that if you really
>  |>  need to put something in the DB twice, then at least use a relationship
>  |>  to link the DB objects together.
>  |>
>  |>  I expect that someone with PostGIS knowledge can construct a query to
>  |>  quickly identify all the parking nodes inside parking areas and produce
>  |>  a list. I'm sure that many of us could write a perl or python script to
>  |>  take this list and delete or relate the nodes.
>  |>
>  |
>  | As of the last planet there are 5881 such nodes. Interestingly there
>  | are one or two car parks with two or three nodes in them.
>  | My hugely overcomplicated postgis query could delete these for mapnik
>  | in about 30 seconds if it was important to do so.
>
>  Can we have a vote on what to do next?
>
>  Options:
>  1. Delete the nodes inside areas, make sure the areas are set
>  access=public and any tagging (e.g. car park name) is copied across.
>  2. Add a relationship between car park nodes and the area they are in
>  and do nothing else.
>  3. Add a relationship between car park nodes and the area they are in
>  and change the tagging of the node somehow.
>
>  On that list, my vote would be, in order of preference, 1,3,2
>

You missed option 4:
  - do nothing
and option 5:
  - do nothing to the data and get the renderers etc to sort it out

they're actually effectively the same option.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Raw GPS layer

[Robert (Jamie) Munro]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Sebastian Spaeth wrote:
| Guilhem Bonnefille wrote:
|>> OpenLayers can render KML files as lines.
|>>  (http://www.openlayers.org/dev/examples/kml-layer.html)
|>>
|>>  I'd rather have something client-side like this rather than adding yet
|>>  another layer to the [EMAIL PROTECTED] server (alternatively we could use 
a different
|>>  [EMAIL PROTECTED] server for stuff like this).
|> In my idea, offering a layer for GPS data allows really simple client
|> to display such info.
|
| What is difficult about
| http://www.openlayers.org/dev/examples/kml-layer.html ? It's just a
| webpage with javascript?

We're talking about density mapping millions of points across huge
areas. See this:
http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~random/gps/

Robert (Jamie) Munro
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Re: [OSM-talk] Parking symbols: YUCK!

[Robert (Jamie) Munro]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Dave Stubbs wrote:
| On Sun, Feb 24, 2008 at 11:14 PM, Robert (Jamie) Munro
| <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
|> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
|>  Hash: SHA1
|>
|>
|>  Tom Hughes wrote:
|>  | In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
|>  |   David Earl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
|>  |
|>  |> Unfortunately removing the related node isn't going to work, because
|>  |> Mapnik won't then render parking symbols. And it is a lot of work
to do
|>  |> that.
|>  |
|>  | I believe it will - as far as I know mapnik has rendered those
|>  | symbols for parking areas for some time.
|>  |
|>  |> Since we have contradictory behaviour in the two renderers we can't
|>  |> resolve this automatically unless osmarender can look and see on
the fly
|>  |> if there is a P node inside the area it is trying to do one for
|>  |> automatically.
|>  |
|>  | I believe it is fundamentally wrong to add nodes which duplicate
|>  | areas, although I know it is quite common.
|>
|>  I agree with this wholeheartedly. 1 item on the ground should be 1 item
|>  in the database. What no one else has suggested is that if you really
|>  need to put something in the DB twice, then at least use a relationship
|>  to link the DB objects together.
|>
|>  I expect that someone with PostGIS knowledge can construct a query to
|>  quickly identify all the parking nodes inside parking areas and produce
|>  a list. I'm sure that many of us could write a perl or python script to
|>  take this list and delete or relate the nodes.
|>
|
| As of the last planet there are 5881 such nodes. Interestingly there
| are one or two car parks with two or three nodes in them.
| My hugely overcomplicated postgis query could delete these for mapnik
| in about 30 seconds if it was important to do so.

Can we have a vote on what to do next?

Options:
1. Delete the nodes inside areas, make sure the areas are set
access=public and any tagging (e.g. car park name) is copied across.
2. Add a relationship between car park nodes and the area they are in
and do nothing else.
3. Add a relationship between car park nodes and the area they are in
and change the tagging of the node somehow.

On that list, my vote would be, in order of preference, 1,3,2

I've made a wiki page to collect votes, if people think that's a good idea.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Car_park

Robert (Jamie) Munro
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Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints

[David Earl]

And one more innovation that 80n asked for... fast (and also slow) forward.

The fast forward menu entry (button, F9) speeds up playback by 1.3 
times, and if you press it again by a further 1.3 times and so on (up to 
a very fast playback determined by the capability of the audio system 
and the rate of the WAV file you're playing).

The slow forward (SHIFT+F9) slows you down again, and can go slower than 
real time (I thought this might be useful if you're trying to type what 
it is saying as it plays).

The 1.3 is configurable in the Audio preferences, if you want faster or 
slower acceleration.

Incidentally, fast backwards is _much_ harder, so I don't plan on doing 
that.

David


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Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints

[J.D. Schmidt]

80n skrev:
> On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 12:28 PM, graham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>> 80n wrote:
>>
>>> BTW I just had a very successful experiment this morning using a
>>> modified kitchen sponge
>>> http://img.alibaba.com/photo/50923335/Kitchen_Sponge_Scourers.jpg as a
>>> windshield for my bluetooth headset :)
>> Ah, but we wanted the photo of you wearing it while explaining yourself
>> to casual passers-by ;-)
>>
> 
> I only plan to use it after dark ;)
> 
> 

LOL.. One of these days I'll get someone to take a snapshot of me in 
full OSM/Wigle mapping gear on the cityscooter, and post it on the Wiki.

Magellan CrossoverGPS in automotive mode mounted with the 
windshieldsuctionmount on the handlebar instrumentpanel, videocam 
strapped on to the lefthand side of the black flip-up helmet, and 
wearing a backpack with WiFi antennas and bluelit Pharaos GPS mouse 
sticking out. No wonder cardrivers are slowing down and following the 
speedlimit when they observe me.

The things you do when suffering from OCOSMD continues to amaze me... :P

Dutch

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Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints

[80n]

On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 12:28 PM, graham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 80n wrote:
>
> >
> > BTW I just had a very successful experiment this morning using a
> > modified kitchen sponge
> > http://img.alibaba.com/photo/50923335/Kitchen_Sponge_Scourers.jpg as a
> > windshield for my bluetooth headset :)
>
> Ah, but we wanted the photo of you wearing it while explaining yourself
> to casual passers-by ;-)
>

I only plan to use it after dark ;)



>
> Graham
>
> >
> > 80n
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 12:00 PM, David Earl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > wrote:
> >
> > I've fixed the following that 80n reported (will be in tomorrow's
> JOSM
> > build):
> >
> > 1. Hang on trying to play audio
> >
> > It was indeed playing at a marker off the end of the sound track
> that
> > was the cause. It now tells you this instead of hanging.
> >
> > 2. Open WAV file dialogs don't remember their directory
> >
> > They do now. Note this is independent of other open file dialogs.
> >
> > 3. Short cut keys
> >
> > |<  F5, <<  F6, >>  F7, >|  F8, >.  . as before
> >
> > 4. Toggle icons but not the audio play head
> >
> > Right menu on layer, "Show/Hide Text/Icons" (2nd entry).
> >
> > [I usurped the previous "Show/Hide Text" for this, as previously
> button
> > marker layers didn't have text anyway, so the action was previously
> > redundant for such layers. It does leave the tiny X that a plain
> > waypoint marker uses to mark the point, but I'm sure this won't get
> in
> > the way. (One special case of general marker waypoints with icons
> will
> > be affected by this: if it is a problem for anyone let me know and
> I'll
> > make the behaviour optional. I don't actually know how you can
> produce
> > such a layer).]
> >
> > David
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> > ___
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> > talk@openstreetmap.org
> > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

I just noticed that this whole discussion is on talk, ignoring the 
fact that we have a josm-dev mailing list. Maybe talk's ok for 
announcements every now and then but perhaps we should continue the 
detailed discussion to josm-dev?

David Earl wrote:
> I've fixed the following that 80n reported (will be in tomorrow's JOSM 
> build):

Since there seems to be some interest, I've run an interim build so that 
everything commited until a few minutes ago is now in the josm-latest.jar.

Bye
Frederik

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Re: [OSM-talk] Raw GPS layer

[Sebastian Spaeth]

Guilhem Bonnefille wrote:
>> OpenLayers can render KML files as lines.
>>  (http://www.openlayers.org/dev/examples/kml-layer.html)
>>
>>  I'd rather have something client-side like this rather than adding yet
>>  another layer to the [EMAIL PROTECTED] server (alternatively we could use a 
>> different
>>  [EMAIL PROTECTED] server for stuff like this).
> 
> In my idea, offering a layer for GPS data allows really simple client
> to display such info.

What is difficult about 
http://www.openlayers.org/dev/examples/kml-layer.html ? It's just a 
webpage with javascript?

If you have enough serverpower you can always offer a webservice that 
offers these images as on-the-fly merged flat images.

At least I don't want to have the [EMAIL PROTECTED] server getting any slower 
because 
of this.

sebastian


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Re: [OSM-talk] GIS hooligans at Perugia (GRASS - GFOSS Italian Meeting)

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

> I heard someone saying - as a joke - that we are like GIS 
> hooligans: we do not bother topology

But we have topology! The GIS folks' shapefiles do not ;-)

Bye
Frederik

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Re: [OSM-talk] do we have a map feature for this? :)

[Alex S.]

Gregory wrote:
> Failing the sueing, somebody could make a SatNav that says on the box 
> 'suitable for lorries' or an option to set your veichle type. (using OSM 
> data why not).

I went looking for extra POIs for my TomTom and noticed that there is a 
set of 'low clearance' POIs available for it.  I would not be surprised 
if something similar was available for other units.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints

[graham]

80n wrote:

> 
> BTW I just had a very successful experiment this morning using a 
> modified kitchen sponge 
> http://img.alibaba.com/photo/50923335/Kitchen_Sponge_Scourers.jpg as a 
> windshield for my bluetooth headset :)

Ah, but we wanted the photo of you wearing it while explaining yourself 
to casual passers-by ;-)

Graham

> 
> 80n
> 
> 
> On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 12:00 PM, David Earl <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote:
> 
> I've fixed the following that 80n reported (will be in tomorrow's JOSM
> build):
> 
> 1. Hang on trying to play audio
> 
> It was indeed playing at a marker off the end of the sound track that
> was the cause. It now tells you this instead of hanging.
> 
> 2. Open WAV file dialogs don't remember their directory
> 
> They do now. Note this is independent of other open file dialogs.
> 
> 3. Short cut keys
> 
> |<  F5, <<  F6, >>  F7, >|  F8, >.  . as before
> 
> 4. Toggle icons but not the audio play head
> 
> Right menu on layer, "Show/Hide Text/Icons" (2nd entry).
> 
> [I usurped the previous "Show/Hide Text" for this, as previously button
> marker layers didn't have text anyway, so the action was previously
> redundant for such layers. It does leave the tiny X that a plain
> waypoint marker uses to mark the point, but I'm sure this won't get in
> the way. (One special case of general marker waypoints with icons will
> be affected by this: if it is a problem for anyone let me know and I'll
> make the behaviour optional. I don't actually know how you can produce
> such a layer).]
> 
> David
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints

[80n]

David
Thanks, I can't wait to try all this.

BTW I just had a very successful experiment this morning using a modified
kitchen sponge
http://img.alibaba.com/photo/50923335/Kitchen_Sponge_Scourers.jpg as a
windshield for my bluetooth headset :)

80n


On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 12:00 PM, David Earl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> I've fixed the following that 80n reported (will be in tomorrow's JOSM
> build):
>
> 1. Hang on trying to play audio
>
> It was indeed playing at a marker off the end of the sound track that
> was the cause. It now tells you this instead of hanging.
>
> 2. Open WAV file dialogs don't remember their directory
>
> They do now. Note this is independent of other open file dialogs.
>
> 3. Short cut keys
>
> |<  F5, <<  F6, >>  F7, >|  F8, >.  . as before
>
> 4. Toggle icons but not the audio play head
>
> Right menu on layer, "Show/Hide Text/Icons" (2nd entry).
>
> [I usurped the previous "Show/Hide Text" for this, as previously button
> marker layers didn't have text anyway, so the action was previously
> redundant for such layers. It does leave the tiny X that a plain
> waypoint marker uses to mark the point, but I'm sure this won't get in
> the way. (One special case of general marker waypoints with icons will
> be affected by this: if it is a problem for anyone let me know and I'll
> make the behaviour optional. I don't actually know how you can produce
> such a layer).]
>
> David
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints

[David Earl]

I've fixed the following that 80n reported (will be in tomorrow's JOSM 
build):

1. Hang on trying to play audio

It was indeed playing at a marker off the end of the sound track that 
was the cause. It now tells you this instead of hanging.

2. Open WAV file dialogs don't remember their directory

They do now. Note this is independent of other open file dialogs.

3. Short cut keys

|<  F5, <<  F6, >>  F7, >|  F8, >.  . as before

4. Toggle icons but not the audio play head

Right menu on layer, "Show/Hide Text/Icons" (2nd entry).

[I usurped the previous "Show/Hide Text" for this, as previously button 
marker layers didn't have text anyway, so the action was previously 
redundant for such layers. It does leave the tiny X that a plain 
waypoint marker uses to mark the point, but I'm sure this won't get in 
the way. (One special case of general marker waypoints with icons will 
be affected by this: if it is a problem for anyone let me know and I'll 
make the behaviour optional. I don't actually know how you can produce 
such a layer).]

David

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Re: [OSM-talk] Parking symbols: YUCK!

[Dave Stubbs]

On Sun, Feb 24, 2008 at 11:14 PM, Robert (Jamie) Munro
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>  Hash: SHA1
>
>
>  Tom Hughes wrote:
>  | In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  |   David Earl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  |
>  |> Unfortunately removing the related node isn't going to work, because
>  |> Mapnik won't then render parking symbols. And it is a lot of work to do
>  |> that.
>  |
>  | I believe it will - as far as I know mapnik has rendered those
>  | symbols for parking areas for some time.
>  |
>  |> Since we have contradictory behaviour in the two renderers we can't
>  |> resolve this automatically unless osmarender can look and see on the fly
>  |> if there is a P node inside the area it is trying to do one for
>  |> automatically.
>  |
>  | I believe it is fundamentally wrong to add nodes which duplicate
>  | areas, although I know it is quite common.
>
>  I agree with this wholeheartedly. 1 item on the ground should be 1 item
>  in the database. What no one else has suggested is that if you really
>  need to put something in the DB twice, then at least use a relationship
>  to link the DB objects together.
>
>  I expect that someone with PostGIS knowledge can construct a query to
>  quickly identify all the parking nodes inside parking areas and produce
>  a list. I'm sure that many of us could write a perl or python script to
>  take this list and delete or relate the nodes.
>

As of the last planet there are 5881 such nodes. Interestingly there
are one or two car parks with two or three nodes in them.
My hugely overcomplicated postgis query could delete these for mapnik
in about 30 seconds if it was important to do so.

You can get a list with the following (there's probably a nicer SQL
query than this, but this pretty much represents the way I first
thought it through, and it seems to work):
select p.osm_id from planet_osm_point as p, planet_osm_polygon as a
where a.osm_id!=p.osm_id and a.osm_id in (select a.osm_id from
planet_osm_point as p, planet_osm_polygon as a where
a.amenity='parking' and p.amenity='parking' and a.way && p.way and
intersects(a.way, p.way) group by a.osm_id having count(p.osm_id) > 1)
and p.amenity='parking' and a.way && p.way and intersects(a.way,
p.way);

(osm2pgsql creates 1 point for each parking area and gives it the
osm_id of the area, so every area has at least 1 point already in the
postgis db)

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[OSM-talk] GIS hooligans at Perugia (GRASS - GFOSS Italian Meeting)

[Niccolo Rigacci]

Hi to all the OSMers!

A brief thought from the 9th GRASS - GFOSS Italian Meeting 
[1] held in Perugia the last week, where I was invited to held a 
talk about OpenStreetMap.

The interest about OSM was amazing. The audience was composed by 
the top Italian GIS developers and users, in my talk I tried to 
focus on both the community approach and on technical details.

I feel good attention and several people asked me after the talk.

I heard someone saying - as a joke - that we are like GIS 
hooligans: we do not bother topology, we ignore other spatial 
reference systems, we tag unpaved traks as "highway" (sound very 
confusing for Italian people!). Despite that we got an amazing 
feedback.

The community approach, the achieved results and the deployed 
technical solutions were accepted with extreme interest.

After the meeting several people joined the Mapping Party [2] 
that was favoured by an early spring with a warm and sunny 
Saturday and Sunday (more to come on this).

I wish to thanks all the partecipants and the organization which 
make this event possible.

[1] http://www.grassmeeting2008.unipg.it/
[2] 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/WikiProject_Italy/IX_Convegno_GRASS-GFOSS_Perugia

-- 
Niccolo Rigacci
Firenze - Italy

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Re: [OSM-talk] Parking symbols: YUCK!

[Michael Collinson]

At 10:19 AM 2/25/2008, graham wrote:
>Robert (Jamie) Munro wrote:
>
>  > I expect that someone with PostGIS knowledge can construct a query to
>  > quickly identify all the parking nodes inside parking areas and produce
>  > a list. I'm sure that many of us could write a perl or python script to
>  > take this list and delete or relate the nodes.
>  >
>
>If anyone does this, it would be helpful to add access=public to all
>parking areas which have a node before deleting the node. I guess that
>would be ok for everyone else's too?
>
>Graham

Yes, that would work for me - I followed a suggested convention of 
only placing a node when it was public.  I have probably several 
hundred scattered throughout the world so it is not practical to manually edit.

Mike 


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Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints

[David Earl]

On 25/02/2008 00:46, 80n wrote:
>  > 2) While audio is playing, when I clicked on an audio marker it
> caused
>  > JOSM to hang.
> 
> OK. I'll see if I can reproduce it. Can you be more specific?
> 
> 
> It happened several times when I first started using it, but now that 
> I've figured out how to do it properly I can't make it do it any more.  
> I'll let you know.

I think I know what this is - I think it mat have been trying to jump to 
a position off the end and never getting there. This will be easy to fix 
if I'm right.

>  > 3) The Open dialog for audio files does not appear to remember
> the last
>  > place that was used. Other open dialogs in JOSM do.
> 
> Curious. I'm not aware of doing anything different. Maybe there is an
> extra step I missed.

I think I know why this is as well now.

David


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Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints

[David Earl]

On 25/02/2008 01:23, J.D. Schmidt wrote:
> Could this work with video media files ? I've invested in an Oregon 
> Scientific ACT2000 solid state helmet cam ( http://tinyurl.com/22zaep )
> for use when driving my cityscooter. It has audio input too, but the 
> audio tends to be drowned out by the motor and wind sounds. I'm planning 
> on using it when mapping, logging data for Wigle and OSM on the laptop 
> and the Magellan CrossoverGPS, and filming the route as well as 
> roadsigns with the helmet cam (sample movie in DivX format on 
> http://www.stage6.com/user/DutchDK ).
> 
> Loading up the stream and seeing it in a seperate window in sync with 
> the gpx log in JOSM could be great ;)

I am sure the same technique for syncing and controlling it would work. 
We'd just need a video player. There appears to be a thing called "Java 
Media Framework" which addresses this, and could probably just replace 
the rather simple thread already there (at a brief glance it looks like 
the interface is not too dissimilar). It may require users to install an 
additional Java component, though I'm not sure.

So the answer is yes in principle, but don't expect it tomorrow.

David


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Re: [OSM-talk] Continuous audio in JOSM on tracks without waypoints

[David Earl]

On 25/02/2008 01:09, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> Hi,
> 
>> OK, can be arranged I'm sure. How about '[' and ']' with '{' and '}' for 
>> next and last marker?
> 
> On a German keyboard these are on AltGr-7 to AltGr-0 which would make
> them less than ideal. 

Hmm. OK, I see we are hardly using the function keys, so F5-F8 are 
presumably in a row on most keyboards, though some very compact 
keyboards may have a special shift key to get at them.

> Maybe one could at least make them configurable?

I think would be good, but we should address it as a whole.

I don't seem to be able to get at { and } BTW, but I may not be 
understanding the keyboard mapping properly - I need to drill down a bit 
more into the existing code.

David

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Re: [OSM-talk] Parking symbols: YUCK!

[graham]

Robert (Jamie) Munro wrote:

 > I expect that someone with PostGIS knowledge can construct a query to
 > quickly identify all the parking nodes inside parking areas and produce
 > a list. I'm sure that many of us could write a perl or python script to
 > take this list and delete or relate the nodes.
 >

If anyone does this, it would be helpful to add access=public to all 
parking areas which have a node before deleting the node. I guess that 
would be ok for everyone else's too?

Graham

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Re: [OSM-talk] Raw GPS layer

[Guilhem Bonnefille]

2008/2/25, Sebastian Spaeth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 80n wrote:
>  > This would be an interesting thing to try.
>  >
>  > AFAIK its relatively easy to add a new layer to the [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> infrastructure
>  > and Osmarender could easily be adapted to render points from GPX files
>  > (perhaps using a pre-processor to convert GPX elements to OSM format
>  > nodes and ways).  I do wonder, however, whether the [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> infrastrcuture
>  > is overkill, just for rendering tracklogs on a map.
>
>
> OpenLayers can render KML files as lines.
>  (http://www.openlayers.org/dev/examples/kml-layer.html)
>
>  I'd rather have something client-side like this rather than adding yet
>  another layer to the [EMAIL PROTECTED] server (alternatively we could use a 
> different
>  [EMAIL PROTECTED] server for stuff like this).

In my idea, offering a layer for GPS data allows really simple client
to display such info.

-- 
Guilhem BONNEFILLE
-=- #UIN: 15146515 JID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-=- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-=- http://nathguil.free.fr/

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Re: [OSM-talk] Raw GPS layer

[Sebastian Spaeth]

80n wrote:
> This would be an interesting thing to try.
> 
> AFAIK its relatively easy to add a new layer to the [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> infrastructure 
> and Osmarender could easily be adapted to render points from GPX files 
> (perhaps using a pre-processor to convert GPX elements to OSM format 
> nodes and ways).  I do wonder, however, whether the [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> infrastrcuture 
> is overkill, just for rendering tracklogs on a map.

OpenLayers can render KML files as lines. 
(http://www.openlayers.org/dev/examples/kml-layer.html)

I'd rather have something client-side like this rather than adding yet 
another layer to the [EMAIL PROTECTED] server (alternatively we could use a 
different 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] server for stuff like this).



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