Re: [OSM-talk] Google Map Maker

[Jeffrey Martin]

I'm using gmail. The way I read my user agreement google
pretty much has the right to do anything they want with
any information I give them. For that reason I'm careful
not to put anything really important in my emails.

I'm guessing that google would have the rights to the aggregate
mapping data while any individual would only have the rights
to their own contribution, unless they access it through
google.

On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 1:54 AM, X <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://www.google.com/mapmaker/mapfiles/s/support.html
>
> Ready ... Fight !
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
>



-- 
http://bowlad.com

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Re: [OSM-talk] Google Map Maker

[Lester Caine]

SteveC wrote:
> Hum:
> 
> http://blogs.s60.com/browser/images/seriouslyIBM_l.jpg

I do wonder where we would be today if IBM had not used the worst possible 
processor ( because Intel could not sell it any where else ;) ) and then been 
conned into the the most restrictive operating system deal .

> On 24 Jun 2008, at 09:54, X wrote:
> 
>> http://www.google.com/mapmaker/mapfiles/s/support.html
>>
>> Ready ... Fight !

Not really - as long as we do not loose OSM in a sea of 'sponsored map links' ;)
Actually I am getting pretty pissed off with the results I get for a normal 
google search. Can take a number of pages to find something actually relevant 
  to a search - even changing the words used. So I would not be surprised if a 
google map search gave me hits on the other side of the world. Just another 
example of biggest definitely not being best!
And allowing people to add their own 

-- 
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk//
Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php

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Re: [OSM-talk] Google Map Maker

[J.D. Schmidt]

Who are we, Apple or IBM ?
(And if the former, are you contemplating a surname-change in the near 
future ? ;)

Me personally, I'm just waiting for the iOSM device - With matching 
white gpsantenna and rechargeable batteries that can't be exchanged 
without voiding the warranty. Not that the warranty will be any use, 
since the battery will stop recharging the day after the warranty 
expired. But thats a completely different story.

;)

Dutch

SteveC skrev:
> Hum:
> 
> http://blogs.s60.com/browser/images/seriouslyIBM_l.jpg
> 
> 
> On 24 Jun 2008, at 09:54, X wrote:
> 
>> http://www.google.com/mapmaker/mapfiles/s/support.html
>>
>> Ready ... Fight !
>>
>> ___
>> talk mailing list
>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
> 
> Best
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 


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[OSM-talk] Relation/Routes and Hikes in open Country

[simon]

Hi all,
I'm working on importing another set of tracks, see:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Bob_Spirko

I've done a couple of Relation/Routes and wanted some feedback on whether
this is the right way, or if not what is
http://www.openstreetmap.org/api/0.5/relation/18321
http://www.openstreetmap.org/api/0.5/relation/18323

Also these hikes are in open country (follow URL link to see pictures of
very beautiful mountains), so it's unlikely that exactly the same route
will be followed each time. What is a good rule of thumb for marking
these?

Cheers,
Mungewell.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Google Map Maker

[Richard Fairhurst]

Steven Le Roux wrote:

> d'un point de vue strictement technique, il faut reconnaitre que  
> l'approche de map maker est meilleure que potlatch qui lui n'est pas  
> utilisable sur une machine légere sous linux. (merci flash)

Mais si vous detestez Flash, OpenStreetMap a un API, alors vous pouvez  
utiliser un editeur non-Flash (ex. JOSM ou Merkaartor). Google Map  
Maker n'a pas d'API - si vous n'avez pas de browser moderne, vous ne  
pouvez pas utiliser GMM.

amities
Richard

p.s. talk-fr is that way >
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Re: [OSM-talk] Google Map Maker

[SteveC]

Hum:

http://blogs.s60.com/browser/images/seriouslyIBM_l.jpg


On 24 Jun 2008, at 09:54, X wrote:

> http://www.google.com/mapmaker/mapfiles/s/support.html
>
> Ready ... Fight !
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
>

Best

Steve


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Re: [OSM-talk] Google Map Maker

[Steven Le Roux]

d'un point de vue strictement technique, il faut reconnaitre que l'approche
de map maker est meilleure que potlatch qui lui n'est pas utilisable sur une
machine légere sous linux. (merci flash)


-- 
Steven Le Roux
Jabber-ID : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
0x39494CCB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2FF7 226B 552E 4709 03F0 6281 72D7 A010 3949 4CCB
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Re: [OSM-talk] Google Map Maker

[Nic Roets]

>...
> # Cyprus
> # Grenada
> # Iceland
>...

No Germany ? Looks like peoplesmap 2.0 to me !

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Re: [OSM-talk] pronunciation tag

[Tom Higgy]

Matthias Urlichs wrote:
> I'd really like to hear the street names as pronounced by the people
> who actually logged them, too -- but, to be useful, that kind of stuff
> must be consistent.

I can imagine the result of the Welsh mapping party would be quite 
amusing...


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Re: [OSM-talk] SOTM weekend accommodation?

[Renaud Martinet]

They surely do accept european ID cards as I always used that at the
immigration in Heathrow coming from France and going up to Scotland.

In fact you could go through immigration in London only with your
thick French accent, happened to me like 3 years ago. It was just
after the bombings in London and I had lost all my IDs some time ago.
Hopefully they were not too picky and let me board my flight to
Aberdeen. I guess it's just a matter of really looking like who you're
pretending to be :)


Renaud.




On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 11:26 AM, Martijn van Oosterhout
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 8:54 AM, Renaud Martinet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Probably any European ID proving your nationality would do but better
>> to check. Usually they give advice when you book the flight.
>
> AIUI within the EU you only need to carry *some* kind of (probably
> official looking) photo identification, it doesn't have to be a
> passport (though that has the advantage of being recognised everywhere
> in the world). Between schengen countries you're not required to show
> it at the border.
>
> If you arrive at a londen airport it even says that ID cards are
> acceptable for EU citizens.
>
> Have a nice day,
> --
> Martijn van Oosterhout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://svana.org/kleptog/
>

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Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-GB] Business cards [was: Sustrans]

[David Earl]

There's been a discussion about business cards on talk-gb.

I will volunteer to compile a mail merge of people's details who want 
cards and get sets of personalized business cards professionally printed 
and cut.

Just to get an indication of how many people might be interested, if you 
think you'd like to do this, please send an email (any content will do) 
to [EMAIL PROTECTED] (I won't read them, just 
count them!)

It's a bit tight, but I might even be able to get a batch done before SOTM.

A back-of-the-envelope calculation suggests that if 25 people want them, 
I can get 96 cards each for about 2 pounds (3.50 Euro, 4 USD) per person 
plus postage and Paypal fee (I'll offer a bank account for transfer for 
those in the UK). These would be on 350gsm silk board.

Personalised data could include:
   Your name
   Your email or your OSM home page or both
   Your home lat/lon
   Title ("surveyor", "programmer", ...)
   Strapline and very brief description in a choice of languages - I'll 
let people add their own to a list so I don't have to translate them all.

as well as the common details: logo and website

Given font completeness issues, I think I'd better restrict it to Latin 
characters for now, sorry. I'll define the character set more tightly 
when I look at it further.

I'll put up a web form to order these in a day or two.

If there's any surplus, I'll donate it back to OSM

David

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Re: [OSM-talk] Google Map Maker

[Victor Snesarev]

Currently Map Maker is only enabled for a few areas that (I guess) don't
have decent map data. Namely:

# Bahamas
# Barbados
# Bermuda
# British Virgin Islands
# Cayman Islands
# Cyprus
# Grenada
# Iceland
# Jamaica
# Netherlands Antilles
# Pakistan
# St. Kitts and Nevis
# St. Lucia
# St. Vincent and the Grenadines
# Trinidad and Tobago
# Vietnam



On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 12:54 PM, X <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> http://www.google.com/mapmaker/mapfiles/s/support.html
>
> Ready ... Fight !
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] pronunciation tag

[Matthias Urlichs]

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 20:05:49 +1200, Robin Paulson wrote:

> why not have a repository of ogg files on the wiki/in a database for all
> names?
> 
'Cause that takes up a whole lot of disk space, not to mention another
huge chunk of bandwidth when somebody wants to actually use the data,
which should be the whole point of this exercise.

> we just record them ourselves. they won't all be the
> same voice, accent, volume or anything else,

Not to mention understandability, while you're driving around in the
darkness and while the kids ask, for the umpteenth time, when you'll be
there, dammit.

I'd really like to hear the street names as pronounced by the people
who actually logged them, too -- but, to be useful, that kind of stuff
must be consistent.



-- 
Matthias Urlichs   |   {M:U} IT Design @ m-u-it.de   |  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Disclaimer: The quote was selected randomly. Really. | http://smurf.noris.de
 - -
Maugham's advice: Death is a very dull, dreary affair, and my advice to you
is to have nothing whatsoever to do with it.


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[OSM-talk] Google Map Maker

[X]

http://www.google.com/mapmaker/mapfiles/s/support.html

Ready ... Fight !

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Re: [OSM-talk] SOTM weekend accommodation?

[Dair Grant]

Simon Hewison wrote:

>> I think Ryan Air's policy requires you to have a passport.
> 
> Actually, not quite.
> from http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/conditions.php?pos=MYFLIGHT

I would recommend taking a passport with you if you're tempted to go with
Ryanair.

Two years ago my sister-in-law was refused entry to an internal Ryanair
flight from London to Glasgow because she brought her (photo) driving
licence rather than a passport. The reason given, and I can quote it exactly
because it was so ridiculous, was that "they might not let you fly back from
Scotland without a passport".

This meant she was unable to attend a family funeral, so despite having a
direct Rynair flight from Edinburgh to Limerick I'm more than happy to fly
to Dublin with Aer Lingus and take a train if it means I can avoid having
anything whatsoever to do with Rynair... :-)


-dair
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Re: [OSM-talk] short forms of street names

[Matthias Urlichs]

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:17:04 +0100, Tom Hughes wrote:

> This is absolutely the way to do it

and it works for the general case, but not if you have a maze of short
streets with long names even when you shorten them that way.
These do require a method to specify short, and possibly shorter,
variations.

Annoying example:

Alexander-von-Humboldt-Straße => Alexander-von-Humboldt-Str (that's
automagic) => Alexander-v.-Humboldt-Str (that too, if you're good)
=> Alex.-v.-Humboldt-Str => A.-v.-Humboldt-Str => A-v-Humb.-Str =>
AvHumb-S (probably too much, but ...)

Of course I don't recommend that everybody hack all of these into their
maps, but if you do notice that the mappers skip too many street names
because they don't fit, going back and adding a few short versions
is *much* better than a map which omits half the names.

Thus, IMHO a multivalued short_name=* attribute would be a Good Thing.

-- 
Matthias Urlichs   |   {M:U} IT Design @ m-u-it.de   |  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Disclaimer: The quote was selected randomly. Really. | http://smurf.noris.de
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Re: [OSM-talk] mapping a highway with multiple designations

[Mario Salvini]

Karl Newman schrieb:
> On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 6:59 AM, Mario Salvini <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote:
>
> Victor Snesarev schrieb:
> > Is there a way to deal with multiple highways using the same
> physical
> > roadway. For example, this stretch of road here
> >
> 
>  
> >
> > is used by I-40, I-440, US 70 and US 64. Can anyone advise on
> how this
> > stretch of road supposed to be tagged?
> >
> > Victor
> >
> 
> >
> > ___
> > talk mailing list
> > talk@openstreetmap.org 
> > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> Hi Victor,
>
> IMO you should solve this with relations.
>
> 1st relation:
> type=route
> route=road
> ref= I-40
>
> 2nd relation:
> type=route
> route=road
> ref= I-440
>
> etc.
>
> then you just need to add the ways/nodes to the according relation
> (and
> please avoid overlapping ways). voila  :)
>
> Maybe http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Relations/Routes
> will help here.
>
> Greets
>  Mario
>
>
> No. This is not a logical route such as a bus route. All those 
> highways share the same physical way but outside of that section, they 
> have their own physical way. This is a key difference from a route 
> relation, which uses sections of multiple physical ways to form a 
> logical route.
>
> Karl
There is no difference between a cycleroute, busroute, "reference-route" 
or socalled "superroads".
Your way (using ref="A;B;C") is one way to solve the problem. But using 
road-relations as I mentioned is much more elegant, I think.

Greets
  Mario

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Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Graves?

[Matthias Urlichs]

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:18:56 +0100, Lester Caine wrote:

> Given the vast volume of data available on genealogical sites relating
> to graveyards and their 'occupants' mapping there position is not a
> particularly silly idea, but I think that it may be taking things a
> little too far?

Heh. I'm not talking about the Smith family, and I agree that this would
take things a little bit too far.

My use case is "there's an obscure sign at the entrance of the cemetery
which points to 's tombstone. Have fun searching
the whole 20x200 array of graves for him/her. See you tomorrow." and
related cases, where attraction=tourism is justified.



-- 
Matthias Urlichs   |   {M:U} IT Design @ m-u-it.de   |  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Disclaimer: The quote was selected randomly. Really. | http://smurf.noris.de
 - -
I had resources so I was able to get help.  To all you 'born
again' Christians out there, I recommend some lithium; it helps.
-- Larry Flynt on his conversion experience,
   on the Larry King Show


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Re: [OSM-talk] SOTM Workshop & Splash Screen requests

[Martijn van Exel]

Op 24 jun 2008, om 15:28 heeft Nick Black het volgende geschreven:

> Hello,
>
> We have a couple of requests for SOTM stuff:
>
> 1) Workshops - there is time and space set aside for workshops during
> SOTM.  So far we've had a suggestion from Frederik for a workshop on
> Relations which seems to have been well received.  Add ideas or firm
> proposals to this page:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/State_Of_The_Map_2008/ 
> Workshops
>

Probably done already, but I'd find it interesting to discuss mapping  
techniques, both in the field and in processing, in a workshop:

* Use of supporting devices, like audio recording, photography, video,  
notepad,...
* Circumventing GPS limitations
* Mapping a blank area vs. "refinement mapping" - different data  
gathering strategies
* JOSM and Potlatch techniques and ideas.
* ...

Every OSM contributor has valuable insights to share, I guess there's  
a lot to learn from one another.

-- 
martijn van exel -+- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -+- http://www.schaaltreinen.nl/



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Re: [OSM-talk] Improving on the NGA placenames data

[Phil Endecott]

Hakan Tandogan wrote:
> On Tue, June 24, 2008 17:13, Phil Endecott wrote:
>> So I was wondering whether anyone here knows how I could improve on
>> this, i.e.
>>
>> - Is there an "improved" version somewhere with more ranking
>> information in it?
>
> www.geonames.org ? They aggregate lots of data sources and tend to have
> more "place" nodes in remote areas of the world.

Thanks; I'll have a look.  I thought it was basically the same as the 
NGA data.

>> - Is there equivalent data in the OSM database, with rankings of some
> sort, that I could extract a dump of?
>
> You could parse the is_in tags / relations.
>
> In general, you found one of our bigger unsolved problems ;-)

The slippy map seems to do a good-enough job of choosing which city 
names to display on a zoomed-out map.  How does it do that?


Phil.





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Re: [OSM-talk] Improving on the NGA placenames data

[simon]

>
> www.geonames.org ? They aggregate lots of data sources and tend to have
> more "place" nodes in remote areas of the world.

There are concerns about the 'legality' of the geonames data.

see:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Geonames

Mungewell.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Improving on the NGA placenames data

[Hakan Tandogan]

On Tue, June 24, 2008 17:13, Phil Endecott wrote:
> So I was wondering whether anyone here knows how I could improve on
> this, i.e.
>
> - Is there an "improved" version somewhere with more ranking
> information in it?

www.geonames.org ? They aggregate lots of data sources and tend to have
more "place" nodes in remote areas of the world.

> - Is there equivalent data in the OSM database, with rankings of some
sort, that I could extract a dump of?

You could parse the is_in tags / relations.

In general, you found one of our bigger unsolved problems ;-)


Regards,
Hakan


-- 
The key to immortality is first living a life worth remembering...



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Re: [OSM-talk] mapping a highway with multiple designations

[Karl Newman]

On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 8:26 AM, Karl Newman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 6:59 AM, Mario Salvini <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
>> Victor Snesarev schrieb:
>> > Is there a way to deal with multiple highways using the same physical
>> > roadway. For example, this stretch of road here
>> > <
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=35.75518&lon=-78.67926&zoom=15&layers=B00FT
>> >
>> > is used by I-40, I-440, US 70 and US 64. Can anyone advise on how this
>> > stretch of road supposed to be tagged?
>> >
>> > Victor
>> > 
>> >
>> > ___
>> > talk mailing list
>> > talk@openstreetmap.org
>> > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
>> >
>> Hi Victor,
>>
>> IMO you should solve this with relations.
>>
>> 1st relation:
>> type=route
>> route=road
>> ref= I-40
>>
>> 2nd relation:
>> type=route
>> route=road
>> ref= I-440
>>
>> etc.
>>
>> then you just need to add the ways/nodes to the according relation (and
>> please avoid overlapping ways). voila  :)
>>
>> Maybe http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Relations/Routes will help
>> here.
>>
>> Greets
>>  Mario
>>
>
> No. This is not a logical route such as a bus route. All those highways
> share the same physical way but outside of that section, they have their own
> physical way. This is a key difference from a route relation, which uses
> sections of multiple physical ways to form a logical route.
>
> Karl
>

Here's the reference I was looking for:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Faq#What_shall_I_do_for_roads_that_have_multiple_values_for_a_tag.3F

Karl
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Re: [OSM-talk] mapping a highway with multiple designations

[Karl Newman]

On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 6:59 AM, Mario Salvini <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Victor Snesarev schrieb:
> > Is there a way to deal with multiple highways using the same physical
> > roadway. For example, this stretch of road here
> > <
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=35.75518&lon=-78.67926&zoom=15&layers=B00FT
> >
> > is used by I-40, I-440, US 70 and US 64. Can anyone advise on how this
> > stretch of road supposed to be tagged?
> >
> > Victor
> > 
> >
> > ___
> > talk mailing list
> > talk@openstreetmap.org
> > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> Hi Victor,
>
> IMO you should solve this with relations.
>
> 1st relation:
> type=route
> route=road
> ref= I-40
>
> 2nd relation:
> type=route
> route=road
> ref= I-440
>
> etc.
>
> then you just need to add the ways/nodes to the according relation (and
> please avoid overlapping ways). voila  :)
>
> Maybe http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Relations/Routes will help
> here.
>
> Greets
>  Mario
>

No. This is not a logical route such as a bus route. All those highways
share the same physical way but outside of that section, they have their own
physical way. This is a key difference from a route relation, which uses
sections of multiple physical ways to form a logical route.

Karl
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[OSM-talk] Improving on the NGA placenames data

[Phil Endecott]

Dear Experts,

For a while I've been hacking together a digital picture frame 
application that shows my geo-located photos on a world map.  At the 
moment I'm using the NASA "blue marble" satellite imagery for the 
basemap, which works well (and looks nice) at the sort of scale that 
I'm interested in.

I've just been experimenting with superimposing the NGA place names 
data (http://earth-info.nga.mil/gns/html/namefiles.htm).  As is noted 
on the OSM wiki, this data is not perfect but it's a lot better than 
nothing.  In particular, for many countries it has no ranking of place 
importance, and for things like rivers and mountains it has no ranking 
at all.  (I haven't yet worked out whether there is ranking for 
administrative areas but I don't think there is.)  Also, the town/city 
rankings that it does have don't seem to be very comparable from one 
country to another.

So I was wondering whether anyone here knows how I could improve on 
this, i.e.

- Is there an "improved" version somewhere with more ranking 
information in it?
- Is there other data that I could cross-reference it with to extract 
ranking?  (For example, lists of national capitals, regional capitals, 
etc. or cities/regions by population or area.  Or rivers by length or 
mountains by height etc.)
- Is there some sort of algorithm that I could use to guestimate 
rankings?  (I have considered counting the number of google hits for 
each one!)
- Is there equivalent data in the OSM database, with rankings of some 
sort, that I could extract a dump of?

I'm sure there's someone out there who has thought about these problems 
before.  Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Phil.


p.s. Every time I visit openstreetmap.org I'm more and more impressed 
by the quality and scale of what's been achieved.  I sometimes think I 
should help, but everywhere I go already seems to have been 
immaculately surveyed.  Congratulations to everyone involved.




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Re: [OSM-talk] short forms of street names

[Karl Newman]

On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 6:22 AM, Andy Allan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 1:54 PM, Inge Wallin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > In some places the streets are very short.  This makes it difficult to
> show
> > the name of the street in full.  However, for most street names there
> exist a
> > short form. In swedish most names are of the form Foogatan (Foo street)
> or
> > Barvägen (Bar road).  These are often shortened to Foog. or Barv. in
> > commercial maps.
> >
> > It would be nice if we could tag this in OSM with something like:
> >
> >  name=Foovägen
> >  name:sh=Foov (or name:short)
> >
> > *and* that the renderers would take this into account where it is
> applicable.
> > The whole scheme is irrelevant if the renderers don't use it.
> >
> > An alternative would be that the renderers have a table of common
> > abbreviations like:
> >
> >  road: rd
> >  street: str
> >  vägen: v (swedish)
> >  gatan: g (swedish)
> >  Straße: str (german)
> > ...etc
>
> I think the rendering decisions should be left up to the renderers,
> where possible, rather than adding extra tags. It's not inconceivable,
> for example, for the length of the displayed road to be calculated and
> the name shortened where possible using a lookup table as you suggest.
>
> Cheers,
> Andy
>

It might be nice to be able to provide explicit hints, though. Garmin GPS
devices have a mechanism where you can insert special characters in the
label of a street, etc. to indicate that parts of the label before or after
that special character can be hidden at lower zooms. That means, for
example, that you could hide the "Street" or "Drive" suffix so that it only
shows the base name if there isn't room for the entire name. In most cases
we could probably sort that out automatically, but I'm sure somebody could
think of examples where it would fail. So it would be nice to be able to
look for hints first, then fall back to the default processing for
shortening names. This could work with European/Scandanavian shortenings,
too, such as the OP mentioned.

Karl
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Re: [OSM-talk] pronunciation tag

[Iván Sánchez Ortega]

El Martes, 24 de Junio de 2008, Karl Newman escribió:
> Spanish names in the US are often subject to butchered pronunciation.

I know this is off-topic, but:

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=WVU6ulSMjc8



-- 
--
Iván Sánchez Ortega <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

You're definitely on their list.  The question to ask next is what list it is.


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Re: [OSM-talk] short forms of street names

[Andy Allan]

Indeed.

On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 2:34 PM, Pieren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> such table already exists for the name finder:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Name_finder:Abbreviations
> Pieren
>
> On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 3:22 PM, Andy Allan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 1:54 PM, Inge Wallin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > In some places the streets are very short.  This makes it difficult to
>> > show
>> > the name of the street in full.  However, for most street names there
>> > exist a
>> > short form. In swedish most names are of the form Foogatan (Foo street)
>> > or
>> > Barvägen (Bar road).  These are often shortened to Foog. or Barv. in
>> > commercial maps.
>> >
>> > It would be nice if we could tag this in OSM with something like:
>> >
>> >  name=Foovägen
>> >  name:sh=Foov (or name:short)
>> >
>> > *and* that the renderers would take this into account where it is
>> > applicable.
>> > The whole scheme is irrelevant if the renderers don't use it.
>> >
>> > An alternative would be that the renderers have a table of common
>> > abbreviations like:
>> >
>> >  road: rd
>> >  street: str
>> >  vägen: v (swedish)
>> >  gatan: g (swedish)
>> >  Straße: str (german)
>> > ...etc
>>
>> I think the rendering decisions should be left up to the renderers,
>> where possible, rather than adding extra tags. It's not inconceivable,
>> for example, for the length of the displayed road to be calculated and
>> the name shortened where possible using a lookup table as you suggest.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Andy
>>
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>
>

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Re: [OSM-talk] short forms of street names

[Tom Hughes]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Inge Wallin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> An alternative would be that the renderers have a table of common 
> abbreviations like:
>
>   road: rd
>   street: str
>   vägen: v (swedish)
>   gatan: g (swedish)
>   Straße: str (german)
> ...etc

This is absolutely the way to do it, and is why we recommend tagging
with the full names.

Tom

-- 
Tom Hughes ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
http://www.compton.nu/

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Re: [OSM-talk] pronunciation tag

[Jannis Achstetter]

elvin ibbotson schrieb:

2008/6/24 SteveC <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >:


So it would be nice if we could tag how things sound as well as what
they're called.


First you need to decide how things sound. For example, Redcar is 
pronounced Redker by locals but red car by most others and Greenhill (in 
my home town of Sheffield) is known as Gren'l by Sheffielders (unless, 
perhaps, they're trying to sound posh) but green hill by all you other 
folk. A friend from London would not believe it was not pronounced green 
hill but would have laughed at me if I'd pronounced Greenwich green 
witch. There must be thousands of similar examples and this is one 
reason English can never be written phonetically without sacrificing 
regional dialect. This is less problematic for some other languages, but 
then non-native speakers often mess things up (listen to Brits or 
Americans ordering zuchini or chorizo). Maybe we should just concentrate 
on spelling things right :-)


Very good point ;)
so, how about doing the same things as we do with names?
pronounciation=XXX
pronounciation:loc=XXX
So everybody is happy then, leave it to the mapper what to make the 
"official" pronounciation


Jannis



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Re: [OSM-talk] short forms of street names

[Marc Schütz]

> In some places the streets are very short.  This makes it difficult to
> show 
> the name of the street in full.  However, for most street names there
> exist a 
> short form. In swedish most names are of the form Foogatan (Foo street) or
> Barvägen (Bar road).  These are often shortened to Foog. or Barv. in 
> commercial maps.
> 
> It would be nice if we could tag this in OSM with something like:
> 
>  name=Foovägen
>  name:sh=Foov (or name:short)
> 

name:sh is not a good idea, because there could be a language whose code is 
"sh". How about short_name? This could also be localised like short_name:en, 
short_name:sv etc.

I'm already using short_name for abbreviations of building names on the 
Bayreuth university campus.

> *and* that the renderers would take this into account where it is
> applicable.  
> The whole scheme is irrelevant if the renderers don't use it.
> 
> An alternative would be that the renderers have a table of common 
> abbreviations like:
> 
>   road: rd
>   street: str
>   vägen: v (swedish)
>   gatan: g (swedish)
>   Straße: str (german)
> ...etc
> 
> Is this feasible or will it remain just a pipe dream? I find that always
> using 
> the long names make the maps more difficult to use in practice.
> 
>   -Inge
> 

Regards, Marc

-- 
Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! 
Ideal für Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer

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Re: [OSM-talk] mapping a highway with multiple designations

[Mario Salvini]

Victor Snesarev schrieb:
> Is there a way to deal with multiple highways using the same physical 
> roadway. For example, this stretch of road here 
> 
>  
> is used by I-40, I-440, US 70 and US 64. Can anyone advise on how this 
> stretch of road supposed to be tagged?
>
> Victor
> 
>
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>   
Hi Victor,

IMO you should solve this with relations.

1st relation:
type=route
route=road
ref= I-40

2nd relation:
type=route
route=road
ref= I-440

etc.

then you just need to add the ways/nodes to the according relation (and 
please avoid overlapping ways). voila  :) 

Maybe http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Relations/Routes will help here.

Greets
 Mario


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Re: [OSM-talk] pronunciation tag

[elvin ibbotson]

2008/6/24 SteveC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


So it would be nice if we could tag how things sound as well as what
they're called.


First you need to decide how things sound. For example, Redcar is  
pronounced Redker by locals but red car by most others and Greenhill  
(in my home town of Sheffield) is known as Gren'l by Sheffielders  
(unless, perhaps, they're trying to sound posh) but green hill by all  
you other folk. A friend from London would not believe it was not  
pronounced green hill but would have laughed at me if I'd pronounced  
Greenwich green witch. There must be thousands of similar examples  
and this is one reason English can never be written phonetically  
without sacrificing regional dialect. This is less problematic for  
some other languages, but then non-native speakers often mess things  
up (listen to Brits or Americans ordering zuchini or chorizo). Maybe  
we should just concentrate on spelling things right :-)


elvin



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Re: [OSM-talk] pronunciation tag

[Jannis Achstetter]

Robert Vollmert schrieb:
Disclaimer: based on a little of web research; I have no particular  

> [...]
There's still some language dependency in there, though. Espeak http://espeak.sourceforge.net/ 
  can target mbrola, perhaps IPA could be added as a language?




Espeak can just do it right now:
(see http://espeak.sourceforge.net/phonemes.html):

Phoneme mnemonics can be used directly in the text input to espeak. They 
are enclosed within double square brackets. Spaces are used to separate 
words, and all stressed syllables must be marked explicitly. eg:

[[D,Is Iz sVm [EMAIL PROTECTED]'EtIk t'Ekst 'InpUt]]

Jannis



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Re: [OSM-talk] mapping a highway with multiple designations

[Karl Newman]

On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 5:51 AM, Victor Snesarev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Is there a way to deal with multiple highways using the same physical
> roadway. For example, this stretch of road 
> hereis
>  used by I-40, I-440, US 70 and US 64. Can anyone advise on how this
> stretch of road supposed to be tagged?
>
> Victor
>

List them all in the "ref" tag, separated by semicolons. In this case:
"ref"="I 40;I 440;US 70;US 64" (See
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Mapping/Features/Road)

Karl
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Re: [OSM-talk] pronunciation tag

[Jannis Achstetter]

OJ W schrieb:

Is there any text-to-speech which actually accepts phonetic spellings
as input, rather than trying to figure them out itself?



Espeak-example:

[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $ espeak -x "Hello world, this is a test"
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]'oU w'3:ld
 DIs I2z a2 t'Est

The last two lines are the "phoneme mnemonics" epseak calculates from 
the sentences before speaking them. Of course you can feed espeak with 
the "phoneme mnemonics" instead of the original sentences and it will do 
 the correct pronaunciation.


See http://espeak.sourceforge.net/

Jannis


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[OSM-talk] SOTM Workshop & Splash Screen requests

[Nick Black]

Hello,

We have a couple of requests for SOTM stuff:

1) Workshops - there is time and space set aside for workshops during
SOTM.  So far we've had a suggestion from Frederik for a workshop on
Relations which seems to have been well received.  Add ideas or firm
proposals to this page:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/State_Of_The_Map_2008/Workshops

2) Splash screen images - it would be cool to get some images to show
between talks and sessions.  A kind of collage of cool OSM images /
animations.  If anyone has ideas / images / animations, please send
them into me at [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Don't forget - SOTM is only a couple of weeks away -
http://www.stateofthemap.org/

Cheers,


-- 
Nick Black

http://www.blacksworld.net

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Re: [OSM-talk] short forms of street names

[Andy Allan]

On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 1:54 PM, Inge Wallin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In some places the streets are very short.  This makes it difficult to show
> the name of the street in full.  However, for most street names there exist a
> short form. In swedish most names are of the form Foogatan (Foo street) or
> Barvägen (Bar road).  These are often shortened to Foog. or Barv. in
> commercial maps.
>
> It would be nice if we could tag this in OSM with something like:
>
>  name=Foovägen
>  name:sh=Foov (or name:short)
>
> *and* that the renderers would take this into account where it is applicable.
> The whole scheme is irrelevant if the renderers don't use it.
>
> An alternative would be that the renderers have a table of common
> abbreviations like:
>
>  road: rd
>  street: str
>  vägen: v (swedish)
>  gatan: g (swedish)
>  Straße: str (german)
> ...etc

I think the rendering decisions should be left up to the renderers,
where possible, rather than adding extra tags. It's not inconceivable,
for example, for the length of the displayed road to be calculated and
the name shortened where possible using a lookup table as you suggest.

Cheers,
Andy

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[OSM-talk] short forms of street names

[Inge Wallin]

In some places the streets are very short.  This makes it difficult to show 
the name of the street in full.  However, for most street names there exist a 
short form. In swedish most names are of the form Foogatan (Foo street) or 
Barvägen (Bar road).  These are often shortened to Foog. or Barv. in 
commercial maps.

It would be nice if we could tag this in OSM with something like:

 name=Foovägen
 name:sh=Foov (or name:short)

*and* that the renderers would take this into account where it is applicable.  
The whole scheme is irrelevant if the renderers don't use it.

An alternative would be that the renderers have a table of common 
abbreviations like:

  road: rd
  street: str
  vägen: v (swedish)
  gatan: g (swedish)
  Straße: str (german)
...etc

Is this feasible or will it remain just a pipe dream? I find that always using 
the long names make the maps more difficult to use in practice.

-Inge

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[OSM-talk] mapping a highway with multiple designations

[Victor Snesarev]

Is there a way to deal with multiple highways using the same physical
roadway. For example, this stretch of road
hereis
used by I-40, I-440, US 70 and US 64. Can anyone advise on how this
stretch of road supposed to be tagged?

Victor
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Re: [OSM-talk] SOTM weekend accommodation?

[Simon Hewison]

Gregory wrote:
> You need to get over the sea from here to there. An alternative to 
> swimming is to go in a plane, and unless you have a private jet you may 
> be required to show your passport to someone.
> I think Ryan Air's policy requires you to have a passport.
> 

Actually, not quite.
from http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/conditions.php?pos=MYFLIGHT

> For British and Irish citizens who are travelling on
> flights to/from the United Kingdom to/from the Republic of Ireland (Common 
> Travel Area),
> a valid driving licence with photo is acceptable photo ID. 
 >
> Passengers who are citizens of other countries travelling on these routes 
> must present a valid passport
> (with visa if applicable) or a National Identity Card issued by the
> government of a European Economic Area (EEA) country.

.. although it's vague that a driving licence is good enough for their online 
check-in facility.. so they'll probably sting you for a check-in charge.

If travelling with Ryanair, don't check in more than 15kg of hold luggage, or 
they'll really sting you in excess baggage charges.

-- 
Simon Hewison

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Re: [OSM-talk] pronunciation tag

[Jonathan Bennett]

Michal Migurski wrote:
> I'd also take
> issue with your rendering of Divisadero - it's a lot like Sepulveda in  
> in LA, apparently the wrong pronunciation is the right pronunciation. =)

Shrewsbury.


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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetBugs

[Kyle Gordon]

X wrote:
> Hello
>
> I just made a tiny tool for fun :
> http://gpsrevolution.blogspot.com/2008/06/openstreetbugs-eng.html
> That's not a big thing but I found it useful.
> Feel free to use it.
>
> Xav (french mapper).
>   

This is great stuff. I can finally just mark errors and get them in a 
nice GPX file to go visit at leisure. I've started using it around 
Glasgow, UK if anyone else is nearby...

Kyle


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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetBugs

[Kyle Gordon]

Florian Lohoff wrote:
> Hi,
> PS: Now image combined with a routing software and the traveling
> saleman. Having the shortest route via all bugs in your area
> automatically printed.
>   
Sounds fab! Now how to implement... :-)

Kyle

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Re: [OSM-talk] pronunciation tag

[Alex S.]

Karl Newman wrote:
> Spanish names in the US are often subject to butchered pronunciation. I 
> had a friend from Iowa that told me about a town named Buena Vista where 
> the locals pronounced it "Byoona Vista". Argh. There's also a California 
> county that borders Oregon called Del Norte. Locals call it "Del Nort" 
> (not "Del Nort-ay").

There's a local town by the name of Des Moines here.  The one in Iowa is 
pronounced "d'moyn", while the local town is officially (yep, it's in 
the town's charter) "d'moynz".  (I call it "desmond's" out of spite)


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Re: [OSM-talk] pronunciation tag

[Francisco R. Santos]

On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 11:29 AM, Robert Vollmert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

>
> But I really like the idea of local contributors recording the names.
> It seems to be feasible in terms of storage, even: At around 50kB a
> name, all names in Germany would take around 50GB at the moment.
>

50GB in a mobile gadget?  Is it really feasible? Remember that one of the
uses should be that the GPS speak out the names on the road.
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Re: [OSM-talk] SOTM weekend accommodation?

[Steve Chilton]

Free? Damn - and I had to pay for the one I have booked.

Steve Chilton, Learning Support Fellow
Manager of e-Learning Academic Development
Centre for Learning and Quality Enhancement
Middlesex University
phone/fax: 020 8411 5355
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.mdx.ac.uk/schools/hssc/staff/profiles/technical/chiltons.asp

Chair of the Society of Cartographers: http://www.soc.org.uk/

SoC conference 2008:
http://www.abdn.ac.uk/cartographers08/

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick Whitelegg
Sent: 24 June 2008 09:49

Back on to the subject line, I've now sorted accommodation out, at the 
Castlemoor B+B which still seems to be free.

Thanks,
Nick

 

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Re: [OSM-talk] pronunciation tag

[Robert Vollmert]

On Jun 24, 2008, at 11:02, Robert Vollmert wrote:
> A possible alternative is the free-as-in-beer mbrola 
> http://tcts.fpms.ac.be/synthesis/mbrola/
> . It's a speech synthesis backend based on diphones (two halves of
> phones). Its input format appears to be SAMPA plus additional data.

http://www.acm.org/crossroads/xrds9-3/french.html is a nice  
introduction.

But I really like the idea of local contributors recording the names.  
It seems to be feasible in terms of storage, even: At around 50kB a  
name, all names in Germany would take around 50GB at the moment.

Cheers
Robert


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Re: [OSM-talk] SOTM weekend accommodation?

[Martijn van Oosterhout]

On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 8:54 AM, Renaud Martinet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Probably any European ID proving your nationality would do but better
> to check. Usually they give advice when you book the flight.

AIUI within the EU you only need to carry *some* kind of (probably
official looking) photo identification, it doesn't have to be a
passport (though that has the advantage of being recognised everywhere
in the world). Between schengen countries you're not required to show
it at the border.

If you arrive at a londen airport it even says that ID cards are
acceptable for EU citizens.

Have a nice day,
-- 
Martijn van Oosterhout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://svana.org/kleptog/

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Re: [OSM-talk] pronunciation tag

[Martijn van Oosterhout]

On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 3:28 AM, SteveC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> One of the badly pronounced streets in San Francisco is Divisadero.
> So, I propose that we do something like
>
> pronounce=deevisadeero
>
> or something similar readable by humans and flying computers that talk.

No doubt you'll need a pronouce tag for every name tag there is on the
node, to cater for things like Wenen/Wien/Vienna. And Den Haag/'s
Gravenhage/The Hague.

SAMPA is useless by being english specific and X-SAMPA is just an
ASCII translateration for IPA, so we may as well go for IPA. This is a
good candidate for a JOSM plugin, I think :)

Have a nice day,
-- 
Martijn van Oosterhout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://svana.org/kleptog/

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Re: [OSM-talk] pronunciation tag

[Robert Vollmert]

Disclaimer: based on a little of web research; I have no particular  
knowledge of linguistics or speech synthesis.

On Jun 24, 2008, at 03:54, SteveC wrote:
> On 23 Jun 2008, at 18:52, Lauri Hahne wrote:
>
>> I think some standard form should be used if we ever want to do
>> something like this. Although IPA is the official standard, it isn't
>> very computer or user friendly. Therefore I think something like
>> SAMPA, MRPA or X-SAMPA should be used. These are used to some extend
>> among linguistics and are all based on ASCII. These would also  
>> relieve
>> the pain of trying to figure out what something would be in phonetic
>> pseudo-english.
>
> can you summarise these with examples?


supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
IPA: /ˌsuːpɚˌkælɪˌfrædʒəlˌɪstɪkˌɛkspiːˌælɪ 
ˈdoʊʃəs/
CXS: /"su:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"k&lI"fr&[EMAIL PROTECTED]"IstIk"Ekspi:"&lI'[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]/

CXS is basically X-SAMPA, which is basically an ASCII-encoding of IPA.  
Since we do unicode, I'd think we should rather go with IPA. See 
http://www.theiling.de/ipa/ 
  for an online converter.

I didn't find any speech synthesis package that does IPA directly,  
though. Festival's "Sable" markup language 
http://www.cstr.ed.ac.uk/projects/festival/manual/festival_10.html#SEC33 
  provides for IPA, though festival doesn't implement this. It does  
allow e.g.

tomato.

A possible alternative is the free-as-in-beer mbrola 
http://tcts.fpms.ac.be/synthesis/mbrola/ 
. It's a speech synthesis backend based on diphones (two halves of  
phones). Its input format appears to be SAMPA plus additional data.  
There's still some language dependency in there, though. Espeak 
http://espeak.sourceforge.net/ 
  can target mbrola, perhaps IPA could be added as a language?

Cheers
Robert


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Re: [OSM-talk] SOTM weekend accommodation?

[Nick Whitelegg]

>008/6/24 Gregory <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

>> I think Ryan Air's policy requires you to have a passport.

Same with Flybe, who I'm going with, though I have to admit I did also 
think you needed a passport for Ireland in any case.

>Only for online check-in (which, I admit, is fairly compelling).
>Otherwise a driving licence is sufficient.

So in my case, I need a passport. :-)

Back on to the subject line, I've now sorted accommodation out, at the 
Castlemoor B+B which still seems to be free.

Thanks,
Nick

 

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Re: [OSM-talk] SOTM weekend accommodation?

[Dermot McNally]

2008/6/24 Gregory <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> I think Ryan Air's policy requires you to have a passport.

Only for online check-in (which, I admit, is fairly compelling).
Otherwise a driving licence is sufficient. The Garda National Bureau
of Immigration does force all arrivals through a thing they call
"Passport Control", but no UK or Irish citizen is obliged to show a
passport, or, in theory, to offer ID of any sort. Doesn't stop them
asking, though. Probably sounds like an impossibly vague documentation
requirement, right? This is what happens in countries with no ID card
system...

Dermot

PS: in a mad bid to get back on-topic, should we be trying to model
common travel areas (such as UK/IRL or Schengen) in some way?

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Re: [OSM-talk] pronunciation tag

[Sebastian Spaeth]

Lauri Hahne wrote:
> I think some standard form should be used if we ever want to do
> something like this. Although IPA is the official standard, it isn't
> very computer or user friendly. Therefore I think something like
> SAMPA, MRPA or X-SAMPA should be used. These are used to some extend
> among linguistics and are all based on ASCII. These would also relieve
> the pain of trying to figure out what something would be in phonetic
> pseudo-english.

>> pronounce=deevisadeero
>>
>> or something similar readable by humans and flying computers that talk.

Yes, I am also for something more standard like SAMPA:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAMPA_chart_for_English

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Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Graves?

[Robin Paulson]

2008/6/24 Matthias Urlichs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Quick question: How do you tag individual graves
> (either part of a cemetery, or not)?
>
> Several cemeteries around here have graves of historic persons; it'd make
> sense to tag them, if for no other reason than the fact that that the signs
> leading to these graves sometimes take longer to figure out than going back
> home and fetching the GPS does. (Assuming that you're not one of those
> compulsory mappers who always carries one around. :-P )

tourism=attraction?

there are a few around that are listed as being 'places to visit' in
tourism literature - jim morrison and karl marx are the obvious ones,
the latter being a listed building as well

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highgate_Cemetery#Interments

gives a good list of other famous ones in highgate

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Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Graves?

[Lester Caine]

Robert Vollmert wrote:
> On Jun 24, 2008, at 09:26, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
> 
>> Quick question: How do you tag individual graves
>> (either part of a cemetery, or not)?
> 
> Unless I'm missing obvious ideas, not many people have tagged single  
> graves according to tagwatch. Obvious choices:
> 
> historic=grave, historic=tomb
> 
> or if you want something for not-necessarily-historically-significant  
> graves, perhaps
> 
> burial=grave, burial=mass_grave, burial=mausoleum, burial=pyramid

Given the vast volume of data available on genealogical sites relating to 
graveyards and their 'occupants' mapping there position is not a particularly 
silly idea, but I think that it may be taking things a little too far?
The problems with the thought police on wikipedia come to mind, in that 
'notability' may need to become part of the equation, but genealogy is the 
main reason for my interest in OSM anyway, and I keep being told there are no 
limits?
Perhaps we are getting into another area where a side branch is required and a 
'genealogical' set of tags are managed outside the main database. A search for 
the graves of the smith family could produce rather a lot of results 
potentially but adding OSM references to a list of graves sounds more practical?

-- 
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk//
Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php

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[OSM-talk] New Daily Diff Files

[Brett Henderson]

Hi All,

Apologies for cross-posting to two lists but discussions have been split 
across both lists.  Please reply to the dev list.

There are now some new daily diff files available on the planet server 
that address some issues with the existing daily diff files.  These new 
files are produced using a more reliable mechanism that is already used 
by the hourly and minute diffs.  They have a different naming standard 
so there's no conflict.
http://planet.openstreetmap.org/daily/

The timestamp.txt file will tell you what the latest file is available 
to be downloaded rather than relying on 404 server responses if new 
files aren't available.  The osmosis --read-change-interval task will 
work with the new files but not the old.  The task will merge all 
available files into a single change stream that can then be written to 
a file using --write-xml-change (for subsequent import to a db) or 
passed to another task such as --apply-change for merging into existing 
xml files.

The new files are gzip compressed due to performance issues with bzip2 
compression in java.  This means they're bigger but we're still only 
talking approximately 10MB per day.

There is one big GOTCHA.
The new files use UTC timing, the old files use BST timing.  This means 
that the contents of the files are different.  If you transition to the 
new file format you should re-apply the new gzip file corresponding to 
the most recently applied bzip2 file in order to capture the missing 
hour.  If you don't do this I *think* you'll miss an hours worth of data 
from 11pm to midnight.  If the last file you imported was 
daily-20080622-20080623.osc.bz2, you should start on the new files from 
20080622-20080623.osc.gz.

Let me know if you see any problems.

Cheers,
Brett


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Re: [OSM-talk] pronunciation tag

[Robin Paulson]

2008/6/24 SteveC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> So it would be nice if we could tag how things sound as well as what
> they're called. GPS devices are starting to try (badly) at speaking
> out the names of things.
>
> Now there are some ways of marking this up already, but they look
> awful and require a degree in linguistics, viz
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
>
> (pronounced /ˌsuːpɚˌkælɪˌfrædʒəlˌɪstɪkˌɛkspiːˌælɪ
> ˈdoʊʃəs/)
>
> Thoughts?

why not have a repository of ogg files on the wiki/in a database for all names?

when someone downloads some tiles/some data from osmxapi or whatever,
it gets the corresponding ogg files

someone with the requisite degree in linguistics could provide us with
some hints/rules/config/i don't know to set up the software so any of
us could do it, or we just record them ourselves. they won't all be
the same voice, accent, volume or anything else, but hey it'll be
interesting listening as we drive along
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Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Graves?

[Robert Vollmert]

On Jun 24, 2008, at 09:26, Matthias Urlichs wrote:

> Quick question: How do you tag individual graves
> (either part of a cemetery, or not)?

Unless I'm missing obvious ideas, not many people have tagged single  
graves according to tagwatch. Obvious choices:

historic=grave, historic=tomb

or if you want something for not-necessarily-historically-significant  
graves, perhaps

burial=grave, burial=mass_grave, burial=mausoleum, burial=pyramid

Cheers
Robert


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Re: [OSM-talk] pronunciation tag

[Matthias Urlichs]

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 18:54:44 -0700, SteveC wrote:

> can you summarise these with examples?

See e.g. Wikipedia.

That being said, I'd state that while IPA may be harder to type, it's
readable and mostly-pronounceable even if you don't know exactly what
e.g. an ø stands for. This cannot be said for SAMPA, where the same
sound is rendered by the letter 2 (because the French word for that
number is pronounced using that vowel sound). Other numbers and non-
lowercase ASCII is taken from other European languages, including
Russian.

Plus you can get IPA from most online dictionaries, which allow you to
look up words which sound roughly like the place you're trying to tag,
and splice that together. No knowledge of IPA required. (Somebody else
can fix it if you're unsure; add a todo=pronunciation tag, which I'm
going to add to the TODO proposal right away *g*.)

-- 
Matthias Urlichs   |   {M:U} IT Design @ m-u-it.de   |  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Disclaimer: The quote was selected randomly. Really. | http://smurf.noris.de
 - -
Dreams are the touchstones of our characters.
-- Henry David Thoreau


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Re: [OSM-talk] Good example of OSM coverage - Sofija, Bulgaria

[Matthias Urlichs]

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 18:31:23 +0200, Ralf Zimmermann wrote:

> I would like to share a good example of OSM coverage with you.

Thank you -- that's cool.

On the flip side, a large chunk of one of the main roads you'd take to
actually _get_there_ is missing.

Looking further left, we can see that also some of the "new" borders
within former Yugoslavia are missing.
Does anybody have any idea where to get them from? That's a somewhat
important feature which really needs to be in our map, IMHO.

-- 
Matthias Urlichs   |   {M:U} IT Design @ m-u-it.de   |  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Disclaimer: The quote was selected randomly. Really. | http://smurf.noris.de
 - -
Maturity is only a short break in adolescence.
-- Jules Feiffer


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Re: [OSM-talk] pronunciation tag

[OJ W]

Is there any text-to-speech which actually accepts phonetic spellings
as input, rather than trying to figure them out itself?

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[OSM-talk] [tagging] Graves?

[Matthias Urlichs]

Quick question: How do you tag individual graves
(either part of a cemetery, or not)?

Several cemeteries around here have graves of historic persons; it'd make
sense to tag them, if for no other reason than the fact that that the signs
leading to these graves sometimes take longer to figure out than going back
home and fetching the GPS does. (Assuming that you're not one of those
compulsory mappers who always carries one around. :-P )



-- 
Matthias Urlichs   |   {M:U} IT Design @ m-u-it.de   |  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Disclaimer: The quote was selected randomly. Really. | http://smurf.noris.de
 - -
Kiss her, you fool.


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Re: [OSM-talk] pronunciation tag

[Matthew]

Here's another one to throw into the mix:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/delivery/phonetic.pdf

from

http://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/delivery/pron.shtml



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