Re: [Talk-GB] Anglican churches

[Donald Noble]

Robert,

That looks like an interesting addition to your impressive collection of
tools.
Forgive me if I've missed it somewhere, but what do the different colours
represent on the nameless places of worship page?
I will have a look and see if I can resolve any in Scotland over the
festive break.

Cheers, Doanld



On Fri, 18 Dec 2020 at 19:04, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) <
robert.whittaker+...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 18 Dec 2020 at 18:05, Sean Blanchflower  wrote:
> > In case anyone's interested I set myself the lockdown project of
> ensuring all the active Anglican churches in England are mapped
> consistently in OSM, and have gotten as far as I realistically can for the
> moment.
> >
> > The net result is that of the 15649 active Anglican churches that I know
> of in England, all of them are now in OSM mapped as ways with
> building=church;amenity=place_of_worship;religion=christian;denomination=anglican;name=XX
> > other than...
>
> Good stuff!
>
> On a slightly related note, I've recently done a bit of an upgrade to
> my "Nameless" tool. This flags objects that don't have a name=* tag
> when you'd usually expect them too. There's now a page for each tag
> combination with a map and list of the nameless objects. The
> top-ranked tag combination is amenity=place_of_worship, with around
> 4,000 instances:
> https://osm.mathmos.net/nameless/amenity/place_of_worship . I think a
> lot of them may have been armchair-mapped from possibly out of date
> maps. So if anyone is at a loose end and fancies trying to work out if
> the places of worship listed there are still in use and if so what
> their name is, please have a look.
>
> Robert.
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] FWD: Re: House number ranges that are only odd or even

[Donald Noble]

Just to add my opinion on this, I would also agree with Jerry that
addr:interpolation on a node/building with an addr:housenumber=1-5 would
seem an obvious and logical way.

To reply to Mateusz, I think the situation in the UK may be different, as
they note. There are several addresses I am aware of (at least in Scotland)
where multiple buildings have been joined together into one (for example
shops), and so these have one entrance and one address, but this spans a
range of numbers, eg the postal address could be 5-9 High Street, but there
are even numbers on the other side of the street. It would be incorrect to
use multiple nodes in this instance, as there is no such address as 7 High
Street.

Cheers, Donald

On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 at 22:03, Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-GB <
talk-gb@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

>
>
>
> Dec 10, 2020, 21:51 by sk53@gmail.com:
>
> However, I would regard the Dutch
> <https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/52.34367/4.77750=N> &
> Polish communities approach of adding individual
> nodes for each address in the building irrespective of the actual address
> position outline
> as incorrect mapping in the UK. In both cases, and probably also in
> Denmark <https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/55.68777/12.58382=N>,
> this is most
> likely because addresses have been imported from a national database and
> this allows
> incremental updates from the same source. The problem with this is that it
> prevents classic
> OSM iterative refinement, such as accurate mapping for indoor usage, for
> instance to enable
> guidance for blind people.
>
> At least in Poland separate nodes for addresses are preferred as this:
>
> - more accurate and allows to specify where given address actually is
> - for example after mapping entrances, you can be guided to a correct one
> - I am confused why it prevents
> "OSM iterative refinement, such as accurate mapping for indoor usage"
> (maybe in UK addresses are assigned differently than in Poland)
> - maybe it is related to fact that I am unaware of "address position
> outline"
> existing in Poland - address is de facto assigned to building/plot/entrance
> and in rare cases to complex objects such as a hospital or group of
> entrances
> - it is common to have on street corner address from two streets in one
> building
> (see
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=50.07413=19.93361#map=19/50.07413/19.93361
> and three nearby buildings), mapping this as an interpolation would not
> work
> (and least I think so)
> - and yes, is easier to map and import
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Recycling Points

[Donald Noble]

ised=no.) Is it that there's no perimeter boundary?
>>>
>>> Best
>>> Dan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Thu, Nov 26, 2020 at 4:25 PM Jeremy Harris  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 26/11/2020 11:16, Jez Nicholson wrote:
>>>>> > Am I missing something, or is there no concept of a Recycling Point
>>>>> in OSM?
>>>>> > Have you seen/used anything else?
>>>>>
>>>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:recycling_type>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>Jeremy
>>>>>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Q4 2020 Quarterly Project: Defibrillators

[Donald Noble]

Hello list,

I have a couple of queries about the Q4 project to map defibrillators.

Firstly, I have seen a few buildings that have an AED pictogram sign
outside, suggesting that there is a defibrillator inside. Is this
considered sufficient 'on the ground' evidence to add to the map. These are
often locations that are noted up on the Survey Me! tool, but not always.

Secondly, I notice that Rob's otherwise excellent Survey Me! tool
occasionally incorrectly matches a point quite far away, and so flags up a
missing defibrillator, even though it is correctly mapped in the location
expected by the tool. An example of this in central Edinburgh
https://osm.mathmos.net/defib/progress/EH/#17/55.95237/-3.19051 where the
Scott Monument AED is mapped, but incorrectly matched to one in the station
(although the postcode for this locates it in the shopping centre!),
which I think is also incorrectly matched. Is there an easy way to resolve
these, or is this just too complex a problem? Either way, it just
highlights another reason why this too cannot be used to add data to OSM.
However, next time I am passing by the station, I think there is one
missing that I can add. This might fix this incorrect matching…

Cheers, Donald

On Fri, 9 Oct 2020 at 16:20, Gareth L  wrote:

> Hello,
>
>
>
> The UK quarterly project for Q4 has been selected as Defibrillators.
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_2020_Q4_Project:_Defibrillators
>
>
>
> A check on taginfo shows there are 4181 nodes and ways with
> emergency=defibrillator in Great Britain. Reading
> https://cesafety.co.uk/list-of-public-access-defibrillators-across-the-uk
> from August 2019 reports that there are 5304 defibrillators in London alone.
>
>
>
> The Q3 project on cycle infrastructure has some very encouraging results,
> which I’ll post about separately.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Gareth
>
>
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[Talk-GB] Tagging of solar panels - number of modules

[Donald Noble]

Hi,

I have a query regarding tagging of solar panels, and specifically the
number of modules for (domestic) rooftops. I have been tagging these with
just generator:modules, but I see that generator:solar:modules is a lot
more popular on TagInfo [1], although I don't seem to find specific
documentation on the solar mapping page.

This issue came up as I was surprised by the low percentage for Edinburgh
with a number of modules on Gregory William's excellent Solar Mapping stats
page [2].

If there is a clear consensus, I will re-tag those I have added (which is
possibly a significant number of the 1161)

Cheers, Donald


[1] https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/search?q=modules
Count
Key
13 906
generator:solar:*modules*
<https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/keys/generator%3Asolar%3Amodules>
1 161
generator:*modules*
<https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/keys/generator%3Amodules>
2
plant:solar:*modules*
<https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/keys/plant%3Asolar%3Amodules>
1
*modules* <https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/keys/modules>

[2] http://osm.gregorywilliams.me.uk/solar/index.html
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[Talk-GB] Mapping new housing developments in midlothian for Spokes cycle map

[Donald Noble]

Hi all,

The Lothian cycle charity Spokes are planning to update their paper maps
[1] based partially on OSM data. They have asked for new developments in
Midlothian to be updated before the end of October if possible. The main
items requiring mapping are roads and road names, but other details are
helpful.

I have created a page [2] on the OSM wiki to list areas of new development
that I am aware of, or are partially mapped on OSM. This can be used to
track when they were last surveyed. It can also be used to track other
areas that need mapping.

Any input on this task is gratefully received, even if it is just an email
to tell me of a development site I have missed.

Cheers, Donald

[1] http://www.spokes.org.uk/spokes-maps/
[2]
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Midlothian_New_Development
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Re: [Talk-GB] How to map new housing?

[Donald Noble]

Dave,

As others have pointed out there is no particular way to do this, but I
find that cycling round the roads with a helmet mounted video camera,
speaking out the road names/house numbers as I go past. Often it takes a
few visits to get everything correct, but even if it is not perfect it can
still be helpful.

The advantage I find with video is you get more context than still images.
However I sometimes also use still images to try and triangulate the
positions of parts I can't access, or upload to Mapillary to allow others
to use them for other purposes.

For building outlines, I usually just estimate the size based on the number
of houses and the length of road from the GPS traces, offsetting back from
the road by eye. I tend to draw simple boxes, rather than try and be too
accurate. Once new imagery is available (every year or so), the size/shape
can be tweaked.

Hope this helps,
Donald

On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 at 10:37 Dave Abbott  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm quite new to OSM, and am wondering how I might go about mapping new
> housing plots in my area.
>
> In general, there is nothing on the imagery - I know I can walk the new
> streets and map them with GPS - but how to go about mapping the new
> buildings?
>
> Is there a guide I can look at?
>
> TIA,
>
> Dave Abbott
>
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[Talk-GB] Tagging of Argos stores

[Donald Noble]

I noticed recently that an Argos[1] counter has opened inside the large
Sainsbury's supermarket at Murrayfield, but I am not sure how best to tag
this.

I had a quick look, and Argos stores in the UK seem to be tagged in
multiple ways, but I am not skilled enough with Overpass to check how many
of each:

   - shop=catalogue
   - shop=department_store
   - shop=general_retailer
   - shop=general
   - shop=supermarket
   - shop=yes
   - etc.


I suspect shop=catalogue is probably the best option for a normal Argos
store, but just wondering:
a) if anything special is needed when it is just a counter in another store
(given that this is pretty much all there is own the other shops,
b) if there is any consensus on how to tag these, and
c) if so, whether these should be standardised across the UK?

[1] https://www.argos.co.uk

Thanks, Donald
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[Talk-GB] Edinburgh meet up Tuesday 18th July

[Donald Noble]

Just a quick reminder that the next Edinburgh Openstreetmap meet up is
tomorrow evening (Tuesday 18th July).

As usual, from around 19h00 or soon afterwards until late(ish) at the
Guildford Arms (just behind the Apple Store)

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Edinburgh#Social_Events

Cheers, Donald
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[Talk-GB] Edinburgh Social Meetup, Tuesday 21 March

[Donald Noble]

Another month, another meet up.

As usual, we will be catching up for a beer and to chat all things
OpenStreetMap, cartography and tech. We will likely be discussing progress
on mapping the 20mph speed limit changes in Edinburgh, plus any other local
issues that have arisen.

Feel free to join us from about 19h00, in The Guildford Arms (behind the
Apple store on Princess St). More details can be found here:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Edinburgh#Social_Events

Cheers, Donald
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Re: [Talk-GB] Defibrillator Mapping

[Donald Noble]

The locations on the lucky2bhere website don't seem to be that accurate for
the ones I have some local knowledge of in the Spey valley, so would only
be of use as a guide for accurate survey.

Regards, Donald

On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 at 16:38, Alasdair McKinnon 
wrote:

> I recently saw this article in The Courier regarding defibrillator maps
> for Perthshire.
>
>
> https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/perth-kinross/260155/map-rolled-out-for-life-saving-equipment
> /
>
> Hopefully some usable info there.
>
> Al.
>
> Sent from BlueMail 
>
> On 18 Aug 2016, at 15:09, Craig Wallace  wrote:
>
>> On 2016-08-16 09:35, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote:
>>
>>>  Just to let you know, that I've now got another dataset in my
>>>  Defibrillator comparison tool at http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/defib/
>>>  . East Midlands Ambulance Service has provided the locations of AEDs
>>>  that they know about, and these have now been imported into the tool.
>>>  As in other areas, our mapping of Defibrillators in the East Midlands
>>>  doesn't seem to be very complete yet...
>>>
>>
>> For Scotland, maybe look at Lucky 2 B Here. http://www.lucky2bhere.org/
>> They have supplied a lot of defibrillators, mostly around the west
>> highlands and islands.
>>
>> They have a Google map on their website, maybe they could provide the
>> data. http://www.lucky2bhere.org/live-aed-map/
>> I'm not sure how accurate their locations are. Note some of them may not
>> be publicly accessible, ie in sports clubs or schools, and it seems some
>> are on fishing boats.
>>
>> I have surveyed a few of the local ones, and added them to OSM.
>>
>> Craig
>>
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[Talk-GB] New user renaming highway=cycleway with NCN references

[Donald Noble]

Hi all,

I spotted in Edinburgh first, and across the central belt of Scotland, that
a relatively new user, tintin2873 [1], has been renaming a lot of the ways
that make up the national cycle network to include the NCN reference
number. e.g. "Middle Meadow Walk" has been changed to "Middle Meadow Walk
(NCN1)" [2]. Where there was no name, they seem to have just called the
path by the NCN reference. The NCN route information is already in OSM via
relations, and displayed via the cycle map layer.

I have not contacted the user, as not quite sure how best to word an email.

There are also a large number of ways that should probably have the name
reverted, as they seem to have done most of NCN1, 75, 754, and possibly
others.

Suggestions, or actions, of how to best resolve this issue appreciated.

regards, Donald

[1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/tintin2873
[2] https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/39162752
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Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging U road numbers [was: Search but cannot find]

[Donald Noble]

This came up in discussions at the Edinburgh pub Meetup last night, and
those there (quite a few of the prominent mappers in Scotland) agreed that
eg U1234 should be on either admin_ref or official_ref (whichever was most
popular) And not on the main ref tag.

Also perhaps a case for not rendering references on residential roads? But
the issue with routing engines directing onto unsigned road references
meant we felt it was more than just a rendering issue.

Donald


On Wednesday, March 18, 2015, Dan S danstowell+...@gmail.com wrote:

 2015-03-18 15:54 GMT+00:00  p...@trigpoint.me.uk javascript:;:
 
 
  On Wed Mar 18 15:38:13 2015 GMT, Pmailkeey . wrote:
  
  U-numbers are used publicly - most often on temporary planning
 development
  notices attached to street lights etc.
 
  If they are not signed, then they do not belong in the ref tag.
 
  The consensus is that such information belongs in an admin_ref tag, a
 sat nav instruction to 'turn left into the U666' is very unhelpful.

 Can you point us to some further reading about this admin_ref tag?
 The wiki isn't telling me about it. If there is indeed a consensus
 then it'd be nice for it to be documented!

 Dan

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Re: [Talk-GB] Fwd: Underground services

[Donald Noble]

 roads be used to help interpolation of positions?

 Could we develop hand held instruments to detect various things?

 Does dowsing work?

 Can we use the markings sprayed on the pavement by utility companies to
 identify what's there?



 Cheers,



 Tim

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Re: [Talk-GB] Hanbury Meeting - Fauld Crater

[Donald Noble]

I know that tagging for the renderer is not particularly helpful,
however, might it be appropriate in this instance to map the significant
slopes around the edges of the crater with man_made=embankment ?  There are
slopes there in reality, and they are made by human activity (even if not
intentionally).

Interesting to read about this too, I don't know about it before.

On 10 January 2015 at 10:14, Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com wrote:

 Thanks for the links. an interesting read.

 m

 On Sat, Jan 10, 2015 at 10:18 AM, SomeoneElse li...@atownsend.org.uk
 wrote:

 On 10/01/2015 08:34, Marc Gemis wrote:

 The German wiki on historic items [1] uses historic=bomb_crater. They
 are displayed on the geschichtskarte [2] (sorry I don't know an example).
 They also refer to taginfo [3]. But I don't know whether the one you are
 referring to has historic value


 Thanks - that's exactly what it is.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/en:RAF_Fauld_explosion?uselang=en-GB

 Some of the pictures here give an idea of the size and the depth:

 http://www.helenlee.co.uk/tutbury/fauld.html

 Cheers,

 Andy



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Re: [Talk-GB] UK use of highway=living_street

[Donald Noble]

So what would people map this street as? I'm not sure whether
highway=residential is best - is it just  service road?
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.866894,-3.099807,3a,75y,304.34h,67.18t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sjBcsReKD0swYNKMm0vHcTQ!2e0

Apologies for GM link, but don't have my photos/video of this area to hand.

Chers, Donald


On 1 September 2014 16:50, Derick Rethans o...@derickrethans.nl wrote:

 On Mon, 1 Sep 2014, Andy Allan wrote:

  On 31 August 2014 18:27, Donald Noble drno...@gmail.com wrote:
   I have tended to map sections of residential streets with block
 paving, no
   footways, and either chicanes of just sharp corners to prevent people
   driving quickly as living_streets, whether or not they were explicitly
   designed as such. These also tend to be exclusively dead-end sections,
   rather than main routes. Not sure if this is correct, but I think
 there is a
   difference between this type of street and relatively wide tarmac
 roads with
   sweeping corners, where even if the speed limit is 20mph, cars can
 easily
   drive at 30.
 
  I'd map those all as residential. I'd only map signed Home Zones[1]
  as living street, for example at
 
  http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/51.44680/-0.12162

 That's what I would expect. And this maps 1:1 with what the Dutch call
 woonerf (with a similar sign).

 cheers,
 Derick




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Re: [Talk-GB] UK use of highway=living_street

[Donald Noble]

I have tended to map sections of residential streets with block paving, no
footways, and either chicanes of just sharp corners to prevent people
driving quickly as living_streets, whether or not they were explicitly
designed as such. These also tend to be exclusively dead-end sections,
rather than main routes. Not sure if this is correct, but I think there is
a difference between this type of street and relatively wide tarmac roads
with sweeping corners, where even if the speed limit is 20mph, cars can
easily drive at 30.

I'm not sure whether adoption or not is something that is relevant here, as
I'd guess this would be very hard to determine 'on the ground'.



On 31 August 2014 14:08, Craig Wallace craig...@fastmail.fm wrote:

 On 2014-08-31 12:51, Rob Nickerson wrote:

 Hi all,

 I've see an increased use of block paving as a road surface on new
 housing developments. Example image:

 http://cms.esi.info/Media/productImages/38030_1338993270237_PF.jpg

 How are people tagging these? At first I wondered about the
 highway=living_street tag but the wiki page suggests these should be
 signposted and have special regulations:

 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway=living_street

 I guess highway=residential and surface=paving_stones is most suitable
 unless someone has some better suggestions?


 I don't think the road surface really matters as to whether or not it is a
 living street.

 What is more relevant:
 Are there any pavements, are they separated by kerbs? Or are people
 encouraged to walk along/across the road, ie shared space.
 Is there a low speed limit. ie 20mph or less?
 Any traffic calming to slow vehicles down, eg speed bumps, or chicanes. Or
 street furniture, ie trees, bollards, benches on the road.

 Craig


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Re: [Talk-GB] Ordnance Survey National Grid maps of Edinburgh

[Donald Noble]

Thanks Rob,

The alignment matches well with both bing and what is already on OSM
(although this may largely be derived).

Also pleasing to note that the addresses I have surveyed match those
on the OS map - don't suppose they change all that often.

Cheers, Donald

On 10 August 2014 00:04, Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi all, particularly those folk mapping up in Scotland,

 The National Library of Scotland has added the earliest editions of Ordnance
 Survey National Grid maps covering the Edinburgh environs to their online
 map offerings.

 http://maps.nls.uk/additions.html#28

 What's so special about these maps is that they show details right down to
 individual buildings plus their addresses! I think this is a first for the
 UK (Warwickshire CC have a map layer of these National Grid maps but theirs
 cover a period which is still in copyright so cannot be used for OSM).

 If out mapping and you want to double check an address, this could be a
 great asset to have at your disposal.

 To add this to JOSM you need to create a new imagery layer with the
 following URL:

 http://geo.nls.uk/mapdata3/os/edinburgh_1250_out/{zoom}/{x}/{y}.png

 Regards,
 Rob

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Re: [Talk-GB] NaPTAN (stop) import

[Donald Noble]

Probably not a convenient area for you, but I added bus stops in the
Glasgow area from NAPTAN data a few years back, manually merging in
with existing data and surveying those where it wasn't clear (and
flagging a few cases that I didn't get a chance to survey). However it
took quite a bit longer than I had anticipated soI didn't do any
further areas.

If you were to develop some way to compare NAPTAN  OSM by
reference/location, and then marking as close matches to existing
(needing updated or not) or possible conflicts to be survey, etc,
would be interesting. But has been noted, this probably has to be
reviewed on a stop-by-stop basis, as there are so many potential
issues with both the NAPTAN and OSM data.

Cheers, Donald

On 31 July 2014 19:18, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote:
 On 31/07/14 18:31, Chris Hill wrote:
 I'd be particularly interested if any council has used the improved OSM
 data to bring their feed into NaPTAN up to scratch, and if not why not?

 As the naptan data has a nice unique identifier then it should be
 possible to do a clean compare of what is on OSM and the raw naptan
 data? If the location of a node is distance from the raw data, this can
 be tagged, and if other fields have updated then this data can be
 updated on OSM. Import wise, if a node already exists, then it would be
 dropped from a new import. This data really is a nice example that could
 be developed with data management tools that would then be usable with
 other data sets such as lamp posts, post boxes, telephone distribution
 cabinets and the like?

 --
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 -
 Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
 L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
 EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
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[Talk-GB] Road Hierarchy in Central Edinburgh

[Donald Noble]

There have been a couple of changes to the road hierarchy in central
Edinburgh recently, partly related to the introduction of the trams,
and also a trial cycle/pedestrian route along George Street. There
were also some relic classifications from the tram construction where
roads changed priority during the construction works.

Rather than initiate an edit war, I thought it might be better to set
up a wiki page to discuss and hopefully reach a consensus that can be
implemented on the map.

This is at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Edinburgh/CityCentreRoads
- which has had some input, but opening up to a wider audience via the
lists.

It would be good to get input from others regarding a sensible
hierarchy, and possible experience from other UK towns and cities.
Some particular questions include:
- Do we base this on access for motor vehicles?
- Or base on OS classification (which may be incorrect/out of date)?
- Should a main route for public transport but not motor vehicles be
primary/secondary/tertiary in OS parlance, or does the fact that motor
vehicles are prohibited suggest this should be unclassified?
- Should these roads be tagged with access=no, bicycle=yes, foot=yes,
etc or just motor_vehicle=no

Thanks for any input on this.

Donald

(disclaimer: I'm a cyclist and resident of Edinburgh)

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Re: [Talk-GB] OSM Analysis updated with May 2014 OS Locator data

[Donald Noble]

Has anyone else noticed that the Ordnance Survey seem to be including
more abbreviations in their Locator names, such as Gdns. and Cres.
which flag up as errors when compared to the full names in OSM?

Is it best practice to include these as alt_name or not:name on the
OSM way? I have mainly been doing the latter, as they are not named
with the abbreviation, but perhaps it make more sense to call the
abbreviation an alternative spelling.

Thoughts appreciated.

Cheers, Donald

On 13 May 2014 14:24, Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk wrote:
 ITO’s OSM Analysis has been updated with the latest OS Locator data. Most 
 places have dropped out of the 100% completeness compared to OS Locator. 
 There’s now 18 places which have less than 95% completeness.

 http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/osm_analysis/main

 Shaun McDonald
 Developer
 ITO World
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Re: [Talk-GB] Fwd: [Talk-scotland] Shetland-Orkney ferry and NCN 1

[Donald Noble]

I have been on the Aberdeen Kirkwall Lerwick ferry (a couple of years
ago), and have added a rough route for it to the map.

Pretty sure the Kirkwall-Sumburgh ferry is incorrect (although NCN1
does go to Sumburgh IIRC), but have not deleted the ferry route from
the map. Anyone else have any more recent knowledge of this ferry?

I would agree with Richard's original point, that possibly best not to
have an incorrect ferry on the map, especially when there is no
information about it online. Also OS Opendata SteetView shows the
Shetland Sumburgh/Grutness ferry terminal to be foot only, but the OSM
ferry route added by MasiMaster has motorcar=yes. Has anyone tried
contacting MasiMaster about this?

Regards, Donald

On 26 March 2014 18:18, Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk wrote:
 Here's some info from someone who used to live on Shetland and has visited
 recently, and is an OSM mapper who isn't on the list.

 Begin forwarded message:

 From: John Robert Peterson jrp@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: [Talk-scotland] Shetland-Orkney ferry and NCN 1
 Date: 26 March 2014 18:00:17 GMT
 To: Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk

 I'm pretty sure there are issues with ferries around orkney too, last time I
 checked, there are 2 ferries that link Orkney to the mainland, and one goes
 to aberdeen.

 I sugest someone with proper cycling experience does a proper audit of edits
 done by the user in question in the area on the offchance that there is a
 pattern.

 JR


 On 26 March 2014 17:55, John Robert Peterson jrp@gmail.com wrote:

 unless there have been some very significant, and budgetarilly unlikely,
 changes, there is a ferry from sumburgh to fairisle, but it goes no further.

 There is however a proper big ferry that goes from Lerwick to Aberdeen
 with a stop off every second night in Orkney.

 I've been in Orkney many times, but only ever in the middle of the night
 while trying to sleep, a bunch of blokes trying down cargo with remarkably
 noisy equipment. so I can't comment on the Orkney side.


 On 26 March 2014 17:20, Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk wrote:

 Dunno if you know the answer to this?

 Begin forwarded message:

  From: Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net
  Subject: [Talk-scotland] Shetland-Orkney ferry and NCN 1
  Date: 26 March 2014 17:19:25 GMT
  To: talk-scotl...@openstreetmap.org
 
  Hello Scotland,
 
  Someone has pointed out that OSM currently has NCN 1 going by ferry to
  Grutness/Sumburgh:
 
  http://cycle.travel/map?lat=59.8714lon=-1.2772zoom=13
  http://opencyclemap.org/?zoom=11lat=59.8689lon=-1.27559layers=B000
 
  whereas the ferries actually go to Lerwick.
 
  P2 tells me that the way in question was created by a German mapper
  last summer. I can't see any information anywhere about a 
  Kirkwall-Grutness
  ferry, but then I've never been north of John O'Groats!
 
  Could someone with local knowledge correct/amend as applicable? Better
  to have this section of NCN 1 missing than send people on a non-existent
  ferry, I think.
 
  cheers
  Richard
 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Possible vandalism? New Forth Road Bridge being changed to motorway from construction

[Donald Noble]

The change to the A90 around Aberdeen [1] is also bogus. This project
has just got the go-ahead recently, and I don't know if work has even
started on the ground. Not a local though, so not sure of actual
progress.

This one should probably be reverted as well, and I would support a
block until this user responds to messages on the site.

Cheers, Donald

[1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/20556553


On 9 February 2014 20:32, Donald Noble drno...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi All,

 The user robbief14 [1] has changed sections of the M90 around the New Forth
 Road Bridge which are still currently under construction to live motorway.
 They had also deleted all of the tags for the current road bridge.

 I therefore reverted this changeset before further changes were made, and
 send a polite email asking why they had done it and if they realise they
 were affecting the map for everyone.

 No response to this message, however they have changed the crossing back to
 motorway. See [2] below for relevant changesets.

 I would appreciate somebody else trying to contact this user.

 regards, Donald



 [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/robbief14
 [2]
 original changeset: http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/20442315
 my revert: http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/20452252
 changed back to motorway again:
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/20458591

 --
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[Talk-GB] Possible vandalism? New Forth Road Bridge being changed to motorway from construction

[Donald Noble]

Hi All,

The user robbief14 [1] has changed sections of the M90 around the New Forth
Road Bridge which are still currently under construction to live motorway.
They had also deleted all of the tags for the current road bridge.

I therefore reverted this changeset before further changes were made, and
send a polite email asking why they had done it and if they realise they
were affecting the map for everyone.

No response to this message, however they have changed the crossing back to
motorway. See [2] below for relevant changesets.

I would appreciate somebody else trying to contact this user.

regards, Donald



[1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/robbief14
[2]
original changeset: http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/20442315
my revert: http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/20452252
changed back to motorway again:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/20458591

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Re: [Talk-GB] ITO's OSM Analysis updated with the latest OS Locator data

[Donald Noble]

I notice that in Glasgow there are 9 road segments flagged up for
name=London Road (A74) which is correctly in OSM as name=London Road
ref=A74.

I can add not:name to suppress these, but not sure if this is something
that is being flagged up elsewhere in country, and if this is something
that could (easily) be tweaked in the algorithm.

Cheers, Donald

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[Talk-GB] NaPTAN Bus Stops

[Donald Noble]

Hi,

I was considering trying to get all the NaPTAN bus stops around Glasgow
into OSM as an armchair mapping task for the holidays if the weather is too
bad to get out and do much surveying.

I tried downloading the XML file from data.gov.uk, but when I opened[1] it
the 500MB file was all on the second line, apart from the XML version tag
on the first line. This meant I struggled to even look at the file to see
if I could do anything useful with it.

Therefore I was wondering if anyone has (or is able to produce) an extract
for the area around Glasgow (or even for Scotland) preferably already in
osm format that I could use.

I was planning to manually upload the bus stops in chunks, merging with
existing where available (a substantial number, but by no means all), and
aligning with existing features/imagery. I should be able to get out and
ground truth anything that looks dodgy at some point too.

Any pointers much appreciated.

regards, Donald


[1] Using TextWrangler 4.0.2 on Mac OS 10.8.2
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Re: [Talk-GB] railway:historic = rail tags

[Donald Noble]

On 4 July 2012 09:39, Craig Loftus craigloftus+...@googlemail.com wrote:
 I think highway=no is typically used as a temporary tag to try to stop
 remote mappers from adding something from a source that is not up to
 date.
 …  However, what
 is the argument for keeping connections between sections of dismantled
 railway, that have since been split by modern developments?


In some places, the abandoned railway is visible on aerial imagery,
but has since been developed over. I would say this is a very similar
situation to the roads.

As to connecting things up, perhaps that is just OCD and trying to
make things neat and tidy :p


 As an aside, how would one map a dismantled railway bridge? And, how
 would one map an intact but disused bridge from which the railway
 tracks have been removed?


For an example of a dismantled bridge with old embankments on either
side, I would map these as r=abandoned, and the route where the bridge
used to be as r=dismantled.

This has 2 benefits IMO: it shows other mappers that the ex railway
has been mapped in a bit more detail than just a single rough way; and
it may be of use to some users of OSM data, as Peter alluded to.

For the intact bridge, I think this is a relatively clear case of
r=abandoned, as there is something on the ground to map that is part
of an abandoned railway.

regards, Donald

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Re: [Talk-GB] National Rail as a brand (was: Bulk railway station changes)

[Donald Noble]

 Richard Fairhurst richard at systemed.net wrote:

 Two particular cases I'm unsure about:

 1. ScotRail is now, as well as a TOC name, the Scottish Executive-mandated
 brand for rail services north of the border. I'm not sure whether the
 double-arrow is still used in the new branding scheme. (Examples:
 http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/rail/role/the-brand/implementation -
 there don't appear to be any double-arrows in the Queen Street pic, but
 there may be outside, and I presume that it's still signposted from roads
 etc. the same way.)

I checked this on my way home this evening, been meaning too for a few
days now, but only just got round to it.

There are still a few British Rail style Double-Arrow signs, denoting
that the station is part of the national railway network. I seem to
recall this is also the case at other stations with the new Scotrail –
Scotland's Railways branding, and still used on road signs pointing to
these stations. I'm not totally sure what is happening to the stations
with the Strathcyde Passenger Transport branding, these may be
gradually replaced with the Scotrail one.

Just to bring things back to the original question, I think that
'brand=National Rail' is an appropriate term (even if someone claims
it may not be a brand), and for example the Glasgow Subway could be
marked as 'brand=SPT_Subway' or similar, and likewise for other light
rail and maybe tram networks?

I think that most stations wouldn't need this adding initially (i.e.
no mass change) but it could be helpful for areas with another network

Donald


OSM: drnoble



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Re: [Talk-GB] Licence change - one month to go

[Donald Noble]

Robert Whittaker (OSM) wrote:
 I think the trunk roads are doable too if enough people help out.

I am going to work my way through the A7* A8* and A9* roads in
Scotland, as I know most of them, and can fill in the blanks with
OSSV, bing or uploaded GPS traces.

I'm assuming that if the end nodes were both created by CT agreeing
members, then it is just a case of redrawing the way along the route,
picking up connecting road nodes along the way. If, perchance, a minor
road junction was added by a non CT agreeing contributor, then that
junction will be lost come 1st April — but it would have been anyway.
However, the main road network should be preserved.

Might take a few nights of armchair mapping, but the weather still isn't great…!

Donald

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[Talk-GB] Scottish National Park Rendering

[Donald Noble]

Afternoon all,

Scotland's National Parks don't seem to show up on OpenStreetMap in
the same way as those in England  Wales…

I have recently added a relation for the Cairngorms NP[1], and this is
starting to show up as a boundary line at higher zoom levels, and I
presume this will gradually be completed as tiles are re-rendered. Is
it just a matter of time until the lower levels of zoom are rendered
with the green fill? The boundary line works in both Mapnik and
Osmarenderer layers, e.g. near Killiecrankie
http://osm.org/go/e6JnHFAu--

However, there has been a way in for the Lomond  Trossachs NP[2] for
some time, but this is only rendered as a boundary on the Osmarenderer
layer, but not Mapnik (either low or high zooms), e.g. near Balloch
http://osm.org/go/evXOkFN2-?layers=O

Is this to do with the direction of the way, should it be converted to
a relation (might be worthwhile anyway), or are there additional tags
that should be added? I have looked at other NPs and don't think the
latter is the case.

Not a massively important issue, but it just seems a bit strange, and
it would be nice to show these on the map.

Cheers, Donald


1. http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1947603 - Cairngorms NP

2. http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/46343328 - Lomond  Trossachs NP



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Re: [Talk-GB] Changeset Reversal: ok, who broke Scotland?

[Donald Noble]

Jack,

Yes, it has been like this for about 2-3 weeks now, but I think it is
fixed (sort of). It has stopped flooding new tiles, and it only
affects the mapnik rendering now. I am pretty sure the osma renderer
was affected, but then dried out once the coastline was sorted. I
think it may be to do with how mapnik only recalculates coastlines
periodically (but don't quote me on this).

I looked previously and wasn't able to find a change set that broke
things (around Inverness), but did find one around Ardisier that was
correcting problems. I have just searched OWL, and these 2 might be
related to the issue - but I'm not sure at all.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/10063288
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/10112311


Cheers, Donald


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[Talk-GB] Bing background showing OS 1:50k when zoomed in to areas with no detailed coverage

[Donald Noble]

Not sure if anyone else is seeing this, but haven't seen it mentioned anywhere.

As of the last few days, I am getting OS 1:50k background mapping when
zoomed in to areas with no detailed coverage in the Bing aerial
imagery. Where there is detailed Bing imagery, that shows instead.

I presume this is a mistake/feature on Microsoft's part, and not a
change of heart by the Ordnance Survey, and that we shouldn't be
tracing the OS data. (which I'm not).

I am getting this in both JOSM, and also in Potlatch when I use the
(default) Bing imagery background layer. An example is at Coulter,
North Lanarkshire -
http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=55.58837lon=-3.54917zoom=15
(although if one zooms in to z16 or above in Potlatch the OS map
disappears, which it doesn't in JOSM)

I am using the basic Landsat layer as a workaround so as not to be
tracing over OS 1:50k maps, but maybe not everybody will (know) to do
this.

Cheers, Donald

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