Re: [Talk-GB] OS Locator November 2016
On Monday 06 February 2017 20:27:16 Robert Scott wrote: > Hey all, > > Does anyone have a copy of OS OpenData Locator's November 2015 release still > kicking around anywhere? Ok, I acknowledge I said 2016 in the subject, but 2015 in the body. I mean of course 2015. robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] OS Locator November 2016
Hey all, Does anyone have a copy of OS OpenData Locator's November 2015 release still kicking around anywhere? robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] New OS Locator (201411) out, Musical Chairs updated new RSS feeds
Hello all, (You'll all know the basic form of these emails by now and be expecting it) It's November, the new OS Locator release is out and I've updated Musical Chairs[1] with it. Interesting changes should be particularly visible in the recent relevant updates view[2] for the next week or so if you want to take a look. In this update there seem to be 12,201 new or changed entries and 10,203 removed entries. Looking at these early can often show you interesting things like names of roads in housing estates that aren't built yet. But wait there's more! Musical Chairs now has RSS feeds allowing you to subscribe to match changes (all match changes, relevant (nontrivial) match changes or relevant match _downgrades_) for an area. This makes it really easy to keep an eye on your area and watch for accidental name breakages. The RSS feed links are in the top right corner menu. (They're a little slow as of now - I haven't optimized them much.) As ever I've put up a version I've assigned my ad-hoc stable ids to (what?[3]) here[4] in case anyone would find it useful. robert. [1] http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/oslmusicalchairs/ [2] http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/oslmusicalchairs/map?view_mode=recentrelevantupdate [3] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OS_Locator_Musical_Chairs#What.27s_this_.22id.22_you.27re_using_for_Locator_entries.3F [4] http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/oslmusicalchairs/data/oslocator/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-br] That Shouldn't Be Possible™ coverage extended to Brazil
Hello Brazil, My GPS trace analyzer, That Shouldn't Be Possible™ has recently extended its reach beyond the british isles benelux to cover Brazil too. Its purpose? To accept a GPS trace of a drive/cycle you've gone for, analyze the journey against the routable OSM database and, if appropriate, say That Shouldn't Be Possible. Used like this, it can find quite a lot of routing problems or road segments missing from the database. It can also be used to take the hard work out of checking the OSM database against your trace after a long journey by flagging up sections that don't quite agree with OSM. Or perhaps more importantly for Brazil, sections in remote areas that aren't in OSM yet. Not quite sure whether you've got that complex junction interlinked and tagged right? Have a gps trace or two that traverses it? That Shouldn't Be Possible might be able to help you. An example analysis result can be seen here[1]: I've left a nice great big error (visible as a spike in the plot) in the middle of it as an example where the trace seems to traverse what's marked as a path. I've written a lot more about it on the wiki[2], so I'm not going to duplicate all that blather here. It's still in what I would call a prototype stage, but it works surprisingly well for motorcar traces (less so for bicycle so far, though I would say that's largely the fault of the current state of OSRM's bicycle profile). Even so[3] I encourage mappers to try it out[4] on one of their traces. robert. [1] http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/tsbp-proto/779918/2/2/ [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/That_Shouldnt_Be_Possible [3] Especially so - I need testers. [4] http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/tsbp-proto/ ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
Re: [Talk-br] That Shouldn't Be Possible™ coverage extended to Brazil
On Sunday 11 May 2014, Fernando Trebien wrote: That's very cool, Richard! Does the UI support internationalization? We could translate it into Portuguese for you, this should get more people to use it here. I'd love to say yes, but the whole UI is a bit up in the air at the moment, and i18n is the last thing I've thought of I'm afraid. Many UI parts are liable to change drastically too. I've cut a lot of corners in the UI code in order to just get something (anything) up and working, which may make translation more difficult. I'll take a look though at how painful this would be. robert. ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
[Talk-GB] New OS Locator (201405) out, Musical Chairs updated
Hello everybody, (You'll all know the basic form of these emails by now and be expecting it) It's May, the new OS Locator release is out and I've updated Musical Chairs[1] with it. Interesting changes should be particularly visible in the recent relevant updates view[2] for the next week or so if you want to take a look. In this update there seem to be 17,925 new or changed entries and 13,847 removed entries. Looking at these early can often show you interesting things like names of roads in housing estates that aren't built yet. As ever I've put up a version I've assigned my ad-hoc stable ids to (what?[3]) here[4] in case anyone would find it useful. robert. [1] http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/oslmusicalchairs/ [2] http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/oslmusicalchairs/map?view_mode=recentrelevantupdate [3] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OS_Locator_Musical_Chairs#What.27s_this_.22id.22_you.27re_using_for_Locator_entries.3F [4] http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/oslmusicalchairs/data/oslocator/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Urban Data Hack, London, Feb 15th/16th
On Wednesday 12 February 2014, Dan S wrote: (Is it appropriate to post this kind of thing on talk-gb ? I'm not associated with the event, but just wondering if this kind of thing is interest to this list.) I would say absolutely. robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] That Shouldn't Be Possible™ coverage extended to South Africa
On Tuesday 24 December 2013, Gerhardus Geldenhuis wrote: Hi Robert, That looks really cool. We recently got a very generous ongoing data donation from a tracking company that is providing us with anonymised tracking data for all vehicles they provide tracking for. I think a combination of the data and your tool would make for something really useful. The problem is the volume... any thoughts on how that could be handled? Maybe something similar to http://maproulette.org that can automate the detection of problems, visualise it and leave it as something to fix/investigate for users. Yes, I've wanted to make it a far more automatic and less hands-on system, but the thing holding that up is the fact that the results from the tool are often a little tricky to interpret. GPS traces are generally full of many types of noise from GPSs that are having a bit of a fit to people getting out of the car and going for a small walk with the GPS. In the future I would like to develop a more automatic way of flagging problems on a trace as little yellow notes asking is the speed limit right here?, were you going the wrong way down a one-way street here?, is this really a no-right-turn here?. But I haven't got to the point of figuring that out yet. Once I had such a thing in place it would probably allow for a more automatic approach, but as of now this is the best we have. robert. ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
[Talk-is] That Shouldn't Be Possible™ coverage extended to Iceland
Hello Iceland, My GPS trace analyzer, That Shouldn't Be Possible™ has recently extended its reach beyond the british isles benelux to cover Iceland too. Its purpose? To accept a GPS trace of a drive/cycle you've gone for, analyze the journey against the routable OSM database and, if appropriate, say That Shouldn't Be Possible. Used like this, it can find quite a lot of routing problems or road segments missing from the database. It can also be used to take the hard work out of checking the OSM database against your trace after a long journey by flagging up sections that don't quite agree with OSM. Not quite sure whether you've got that complex junction interlinked and tagged right? Have a gps trace or two that traverses it? That Shouldn't Be Possible might be able to help you. An example analysis result can be seen here[1]: I've left a nice great big error (visible as a spike in the plot) in the middle of it as an example where the trace seems to traverse what's marked as a path. I've written a lot more about it on the wiki[2], so I'm not going to duplicate all that blather here. It's still in what I would call a prototype stage, but it works surprisingly well for motorcar traces (less so for bicycle so far, though I would say that's largely the fault of the current state of OSRM's bicycle profile). Even so[3] I encourage mappers to try it out[4] on one of their traces. Merry xmas everybody. robert. [1] http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/tsbp-proto/779918/2/2/ [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/That_Shouldnt_Be_Possible [3] Especially so - I need testers. [4] http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/tsbp-proto/ ___ Talk-is mailing list Talk-is@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-is
Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] That Shouldn't Be Possible™ coverage extended to South Africa
On Sunday 22 December 2013, Robert Scott wrote: Hello Iceland, Damn it. robert. ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
Re: [OSM-talk] proprietary and unrelated images on the about page
On Monday 02 December 2013, Christoph Hormann wrote: TopOSM: http://toposm.ahlzen.com/ (various examples on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TopOSM) OpenSeaMap: http://map.openseamap.org/?zoom=14lat=56.04136lon=12.63945layers=BFTFFFTFFFT0 OSM2World: http://maps.osm2world.org/?h=128view=Wzoom=16lat=48.57188lon=13.46038layers=B0 The Heat maps from: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/SotM_2011_session:_Insert_Coin_To_Play The normal map in regions with non-latin script (demonstrating the international and multilingual character of the project): http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/36.8092/10.1738 http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/32.0951/34.7996 http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/35.7375/51.5014 http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/39.9178/116.3833 or the Multilingual map (http://mlm.jochentopf.com/) I know combining such to an image with harmonic colors is not easy but for this purpose it would be perfectly acceptable to tweak the colors of the various maps for an appealing collage. On Monday 02 December 2013, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Opencyclemap.org opencyclemap.org/?zoom=11lat=40.7322lon=-73.95491layers=B000 ÖPNV-Karte http://öpnvkarte.de/?zoom=13lat=51.50521lon=-0.14401layers=TBTTThttp://xn--pnvkarte-m4a.de/?zoom=13lat=51.50521lon=-0.14401layers=TBTTT and many more individual mapstyles including work from stamen, mapbox, non-mapnik renderings, ... I am fairly certain each and every one of these suggestions has already been featured as an image of the week. Those of you on IRC will know that every week Harry dutifully runs around asking people for suggestions and submissions for a new image of the week, and things that aren't repeats are getting fairly thin on the ground now after n hundred IotWs. I am sure Harry would be only too happy to accept help with the IotW maintenance task if you were willing to provide it, but only if you're able to help in providing non-repetitious images. robert. (or maybe, looking at the wider view, people want to debate whether repeats are ok?) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] Upcoming changes to OpenStreetMap.org website
On Monday 02 December 2013, Lester Caine wrote: I'm just happy with emphasis where it is shouting out in my head Why am I not surprised that Lester hears voices in his head when composing emails? robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSRM-talk] Zlevels and Restrictions
On Thursday 28 November 2013, Stephen Woodbridge wrote: Hi, I'm read over the documentation again and I am confused by the Graph representation wiki page. I have a correctly noded graph in pgRouting. By this I mean that all intersections have a node(s) at them and there are no unnoded intersections. One of the characteristics of this is the fact that segments at an overpass/underpass intersection are not really connected because with zlevel information we have assigned separate nodes for the over pass node from the underpass node, in spite of the fact that they both have the same 2D x-y locations (ie: they are separated in Z). The Graph representation page seems to imply that all segments with shape points are exploded into multiple straight line edges with the idea that crossing polylines with a common x-y point will become noded. Is this true? No. OSM has a topological data model, remember. We don't rely on points happening to share coordinates to tell whether they're connected or not. layer tags in OSM are purely cosmetic hints, disregarded from a routing point of view. robert. ___ OSRM-talk mailing list OSRM-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osrm-talk
[OSM-talk-nl] That Shouldn't Be Possible™ coverage extended to Benelux
Goedenavond. (there - that should mask my linguistic failures enough for me to fall back into english now) My GPS trace analyzer, That Shouldn't Be Possible™ has recently extended its reach beyond the british isles to cover benelux too. Its purpose? To accept a GPS trace of a drive/cycle you've gone for, analyze the journey against the routable OSM database and, if appropriate, say That Shouldn't Be Possible. Used like this, it can find quite a lot of routing problems or road segments missing from the database. It can also be used to take the hard work out of checking the OSM database against your trace after a long journey by flagging up sections that don't quite agree with OSM. Not quite sure whether you've got that complex junction interlinked and tagged right? Have a gps trace or two that traverses it? That Shouldn't Be Possible might be able to help you. An (extra special dutch) example analysis result can be seen here[1]: I've left a nice great big error (visible as a spike in the plot) in the middle of it as an example where the trace seems to traverse what's marked as a path. I've written a lot more about it on the wiki[2], so I'm not going to duplicate all that blather here. It's still in what I would call a prototype stage, but it works surprisingly well for motorcar traces (less so for bicycle so far, though I would say that's largely the fault of OSRM's bicycle profile). Even so[3] I encourage mappers to try it out[4] on one of their traces. robert. [1] http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/tsbp-proto/779918/2/2/ [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/That_Shouldnt_Be_Possible [3] Especially so - I need testers. [4] http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/tsbp-proto/ ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
[Talk-GB] New OS Locator (201311) out, Musical Chairs updated
Hello everybody, (You all know the basic form of these emails by now) It's November already, the new OS Locator release is out (even though yet again the OS website still says[0] it's only offering the May release) and I've updated Musical Chairs[1] with it. Interesting changes should be particularly visible in the recent relevant updates view[2] for the next week or so if you want to take a look. In this update there seem to be 10,151 new or changed entries and 7,730 removed entries. Looking at these early can often show you interesting things like names of roads in housing estates that aren't built yet. As ever I've put up a version I've assigned my ad-hoc stable ids to (what?[3]) here[4] in case anyone would find it useful. robert. [0] https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/opendatadownload/products.html [1] http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/oslmusicalchairs/ [2] http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/oslmusicalchairs/map?view_mode=recentrelevantupdate [3] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OS_Locator_Musical_Chairs#What.27s_this_.22id.22_you.27re_using_for_Locator_entries.3F [4] http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/oslmusicalchairs/data/oslocator/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] New OSM Leaflets now available
On Wednesday 16 October 2013, Andy Allan wrote: Hi all, I've sat down and created an updated version of the OpenStreetMap Promotional Leaflets YES Many thanks Andy - you've taken a big item off my personal todo list. Shall I make a papier mache globe out of my old ones? robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] ISO3166 on GB admin boundaries
Dragging this back up... On Thursday 10 October 2013, cquest wrote: ... It's still possible to see my slightly aborted attempt at adding ONS codes to relations a few years ago - this was made more difficult by the ONS deciding to change their coding scheme (to something equally incomprehensible) during the process. For anyone interested in the finer points of trying to _use_ uk admin boundary relation data from osm, I recommend watching Iain Elder's talk from SotM Scotland: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pwcC20f_sM#t=33m30s robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] NPE data
On Sunday 06 October 2013, Paul Churchley wrote: I have come across some data tagged as source=npe. I know what the NPE maps are but my question is a bit of a newbies one... why is NPE data mapped on OSM if it is so old? For a while it was the best we had. But that was some time ago. (2008?) I have just mapped an area for a customer of mine and there is a stream mapped running right through the centre of his property. It is tagged source=npe. The stream is no longer there and hasn't been for the 20 or so years he has owned the property. It should be deleted then. What is the situation regarding npe data? Can it be removed? Obviously I would just remove it!!! But is there is a process to get it removed? You select it in the editor and hit delete. Or more appropriately, rather than deleting the whole stream you may just need to remove the offending section. You can do this by following it to the point(s) which join up with modern reality, splitting the way there and then deleting the appropriate section. If it is to be kept, then how can we get the OSM tiles rendered without it showing this old stream? I can see that some specialist tiles might want to show old data like this but I wouldn't have thought it appropriate that normal OSM tiles would need to show this old data would it? It may take a few hours for the tiles to re-render without the stream and even then you may have the old ones in your browser cache. robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] State of the map Scotland 2013 - 6 days away
On Saturday 05 October 2013, Bob Kerr wrote: Counting down to State of the map Scotland 2013 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_of_the_Map_Scotland_2013 Please send out messages to your social media of choice Booked my megabus gold tickets last night. What are numbers looking like so far? robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] State of the map Scotland 2013 - 6 days away
On Saturday 05 October 2013, Shaun McDonald wrote: On 5 Oct 2013, at 14:13, Robert Scott li...@humanleg.org.uk wrote: On Saturday 05 October 2013, Bob Kerr wrote: Counting down to State of the map Scotland 2013 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_of_the_Map_Scotland_2013 Please send out messages to your social media of choice Booked my megabus gold tickets last night. What are numbers looking like so far? Check the following lists of who is planning to attend: http://sotms.eventbrite.com https://stateofthemapscotland2013hackday.eventbrite.com and http://lanyrd.com/2013/sotmscot2013/ Teach me to scroll down... ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap font
On Tuesday 09 July 2013, sabas88 wrote: Hello list, are there some style/brand guidelines for the creation of OSM materials? Particularly I was asked about which font could be used to write OpenStreetMap, and the only text I found was the one in the old banner ( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Osm_linkage.png ) but there isn't no indication of a particular font. An example are the Ubuntu guidelines http://design.ubuntu.com/brand/ubuntu-logo The answer is: no. But it would be nice to have one. It would however require someone (with enough design credibility* to quieten the bikeshedders) to sit down and do one. I've also always wanted a blessed colour scheme. Historically, people used Bitstream Vera or Helvetica quite a lot, but I've recently been using Cabin (SIL License). robert. * Here, imagine me coughing a lot in the direction of certain DC/SF organizations. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
On Tuesday 14 May 2013, Dave F. wrote: Using the end user's inconvenience to strong arm/embarrass the likes of Mozilla into making changes is not the way to design software. This should have been sorted out in Beta, or, as it appears to be a well known problem - Alpha. We would be alpha all the way into 2016 then. Really, we've been told that HTML5 SVG are taking over vector graphics for the web for nearly 5 years now. There are still painful holes in the implementations. Without things like iD driving things forward browser vendors will have little reason to improve the situation. There's a limit to how long we can sit back and ooh and aah at new browser developments without ever actually daring to use them. robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
On Tuesday 14 May 2013, Tom Hughes wrote: On 14/05/13 13:14, Kevin Peat wrote: I would imagine that most OSMers would have (at least) Firefox and Chrome/Chromium installed. If iD doesn't work so well on Firefox yet then why not put up a dialog at the start of a session on Firefox telling them they would be better off using Chrome? Because that makes for an appalling user experience? If we want to make it the default before FF seems to be up to the job then we'll just make FF fall back to PL2 as we will already be doing for IE. For what it's worth it's not quite such a clear case as only one browser being up to the job. In the svg-based webapp I'm working on at the moment, I find it to be chrome having the performance problems and FF coping ok. robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] Soft launch of That Shouldn't Be Possible prototype
On Sunday 05 May 2013, Robert Scott wrote: ... (I hope whoever submitted this doesn't mind me doing this, but it makes a good example and I thought seeing as the trace had to have been public anyway...) For those remaining baffled and to expand on my point of the possible uses of That Shouldn't Be Possible, here's an example of it finding a missing carriageway cross-link: http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/tsbp-proto/1383253/1/1/#track-0:trackpoints-1628-to-1665 Here the trace performs a right turn into the retail park where there is no cross-link between carriageways. This gets shown up as a prominent spike in tsbp's cost plot also causing it to try and find alternate possible routes that could satisfy the trace. A similar thing happens on the way out: http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/tsbp-proto/1383253/1/1/#track-0:trackpoints-2067-to-2087 (Here's where someone fixes the missing way before people see this message and much confusion is caused because nobody can see what I'm talking about...) robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Soft launch of That Shouldn't Be Possible prototype
Hello talk-gb, As some of you might know, I've been working on a gps trace analyzer I call That Shouldn't Be Possible. Its purpose? To accept a gps trace of a drive/cycle you've gone for, analyze the journey against the routable OSM database and, if appropriate, say That Shouldn't Be Possible. Used like this, it can find quite a lot of routing problems or road segments missing from the database. It can also be used to take the hard work out of checking the OSM database against your trace after a long journey by flagging up sections that don't quite agree with OSM. Not quite sure whether you've got that complex junction interlinked and tagged right? Have a gps trace or two that traverses it? That Shouldn't Be Possible might be able to help you. I've written a lot more about it on the wiki[1], so I'm not going to duplicate all that blather here. The news is that it's reached a point where I really should start opening it to the public. So I'm now running a prototype instance of it[2] on errol which is just running for the british isles. Why just the british isles? Partly out of tentativeness and partly because keeping the data updated is quite computationally expensive and running it for the whole planet is beyond the resources currently available to me. It's also only available for car transport type initially for similar reasons. But it will work with bicycle traces too as long as you haven't made car-disallowed shortcuts which would confuse it. I invite everyone to try it out with some of their traces. robert. [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/That_Shouldnt_Be_Possible [2] http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/tsbp-proto/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] New OS Locator (201305) out, Musical Chairs updated
Hi all, Just in time for your May day bank holidays, which I'm sure you're all going to be spending mapping, the new OS Locator release is out and I've updated Musical Chairs[1] with it. (Is it really 6 months since I wrote one of these emails?) Interesting changes should be particularly visible in the recent relevant updates view[2] for the next week or so if you want to take a look. In this update there seem to be 5247 new or changed entries. Looking at these early can often show you interesting things like names of roads in housing estates that aren't built yet. As ever I've put up a version I've assigned my ad-hoc stable ids to (what?[3]) here[4] in case anyone would find it useful. robert. [1] http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/oslmusicalchairs/ [2] http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/oslmusicalchairs/map?view_mode=recentrelevantupdate [3] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OS_Locator_Musical_Chairs#What.27s_this_.22id.22_you.27re_using_for_Locator_entries.3F [4] http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/oslmusicalchairs/data/oslocator/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Review of Skobbler
On Friday 03 May 2013, Kevin Peat wrote: Interesting, although Privacy-conscious Apple fanbois seems like it might be a very small market and why do the media often call the project OpenStreetMaps, where does that come from? Google Maps Bing Maps Don't think there's anything strange about it. Maps is just a pluralization that comes kinda naturally as historically people are used to needing more than one map to cover more than one area. The idea of a single map that covers the whole planet is relatively new and isn't something that is built into the english vocabulary so much. robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] additional layers on osm.org
On Thursday 21 February 2013, Jason Remillard wrote: - an overhead image layer + mapnik style. We could reproduce the work that MapBox did collecting existing images. I don't think you will have much success with the licensing here. Aerial imagery rights go for muchos $$$. I think you're forgetting we don't have things like bing imagery. We are granted the right to use it for a very specific (rather obscure in commercial terms) purpose. robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] additional layers on osm.org
On Thursday 21 February 2013, Joseph Reeves wrote: MapBox? http://mapbox.com/blog/open-aerial/ If you look at the phases table at the bottom of http://mapbox.com/blog/mapbox-satellite/ From what I can tell, only Phase 1 is going to be open. So I don't know if that will be good enough for most people (outside the US). robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] Pronunciation of place names
On Thursday 10 January 2013, John Sturdy wrote: On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 1:15 PM, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote: My friend Terence Eden has some interesting comments on documenting the pronunciation of place names, in this blog post: Can we solve the problem of how to do this, in OSM? We could have a keyword convention for indicating the pronunciation (in various languages) using the International Phonetic Alphabet; for example, we could supplement name:language=* with name:language:IPA=* So what would you tag Shrewsbury? And incidentally, I don't know of any text-to-speech software that can pronounce IPA, so, while this proposal seems sensible, it probably wouldn't solve the original link's problem. robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] OS Locator 201211 out, musical chairs updated
Hi all, Normal announcement. Ordnance Survey have again managed to release a new version of OS Locator whilst still listing it as the old version on their site. Be assured, what you will be served with is the November 2012 OS Locator. This release looks to have 7609 new entries and 5077 removed entries. Though of course a lot of those new entries are just slightly altered incarnations of some of the deleted entries (I don't try too hard to second-guess OS's shifting around of entries). My modified version that I've attached stable ids to is also up [1]. As ever, taking a look as musical chairs [2] for the next few ways will show you new entries as recent updates - good for seeing the changes in your area. Slightly rushed email - if you don't know what I'm on about you can refer to the wiki page [3]. robert. [1] http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/oslmusicalchairs/data/oslocator/ [2] http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/oslmusicalchairs/ [3] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OS_Locator_Musical_Chairs ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] Shoud OSM Help move to Stackexchange community?
On Monday 10 September 2012, Graham Stewart (GrahamS) wrote: This move makes some sense to me. Yes, let's take our existing, fully-working and independent system - and more importantly its valuable archive - and put it in the hands of (and at the whim of) a commercial entity desperately trying to make money out of a service that people don't want to pay for. There is _definitely_ no way this could go wrong. We would _definitely_ not regret this. robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] horrible job in gjilan,kosovo
On Wednesday 22 August 2012, Mike Dupont wrote: Richard, your insults, personal attacks and negative comments that I have had to endure in the past are now continuing now. I wonder why people tolerate it. I think Richard has been very restrained in the face of the nonsense certain people like you have been digging up for, well, a very long time now. For instance this Mike - all your edits appear to be preserved at fosm.org so I suggest you use that. And the FOSM lists. was a beautifully pithy way of suggesting you go and actually do what you've been threatening to do for over a year now, while still being put in the politest way possible. Up to now, I have not asked anyone in kosovo to join fosm, I have tried to keep my personal reservations about the license change to myself and still wear the hat of being an osm promoter in kosovo. Now I get someone who is a total jerk from the fosm board asking me to leave or what? why does the community tolerate such bad leadership? Because it's not leadership, and the community doesn't really care about leadership. The community cares about Getting Shit Done (rather than just announced). Of which Richard is a shining example. robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Neocartography
On Monday 13 August 2012, Robert Scott wrote: On Monday 13 August 2012, Steve Chilton wrote: Full (and fascinating) programme for ICA Neocartography session at UCL 5 Sept now available: http://neocartography.icaci.org/ It would be good to see some more OSMers there. Sign up (for free) with Eventbrite. See also the Society of Cartographers conf which is linked from that page and may well have sessions of interest (eg Tilemill workshop). Tempting, tempting... Sorry list, that was meant to be a private reply. /me continues with normal level of incompetence. robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] Strange Routing Error
On Sunday 15 July 2012, Tom Chance wrote: On 15 July 2012 10:46, Philip Barnes p...@trigpoint.me.uk wrote: I am trying to fix a routing problem, that I found whilst investigating an error was reported in mapdust. [...] I am assuming it is more than a problem with OSRM. Otherwise I guess the only option is just to re-survey, delete and redraw the area. If it helps, CloudMade doesn't seem to have this problem: http://maps.cloudmade.com/?lat=52.984191lng=-3.045294zoom=17directions=52.9844102955179,-3.045262098312378,52.9845653137809,-3.0453908443450928travel=carstyleId=1opened_tab=1 Nor does Mapquest: http://mapq.st/LpyFSJ If you suspect it may be a problem with OSRM, (and you're so inclined), it's quite simple to set up your own little OSRM instance on a small .osm extract of the area: https://github.com/DennisOSRM/Project-OSRM/wiki/Running-OSRM From where you can then start tweaking the .osm as desired until you pin down exactly what is causing this. robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] New OS Locator (201205) out, Musical Chairs updated
Ahoy there all, Though the OS website still says the latest OS Locator is 20 (I've notified them), 201205 is actually out. I've updated OS Locator Musical Chairs[1] to use it. Interesting changes should be particularly visible in the recent relevant updates view[2] for the next week or so if you want a gander. In this update there seem to be 6615 new or changed entries. Looking at these early can often show you interesting things like names of roads in housing estates that aren't built yet. As ever I've put up a version I've assigned my ad-hoc stable ids to here[3] in case anyone would find it useful. robert. [1] http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/oslmusicalchairs/ [2] http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/oslmusicalchairs/map?view_mode=recentrelevantupdate [3] http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/oslmusicalchairs/data/oslocator/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM : It's a shame !!!
On Tuesday 29 May 2012, ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen wrote: I did not give you permission to share a private conversation on the list. That is also about copyrights, Davie. Public interest defence trumps this. Next! robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] Addresses for blocks of flats
On Thursday 03 May 2012, Tom Chance wrote: On 3 May 2012 14:59, Derick Rethans o...@derickrethans.nl wrote: I've done addr:flats=1-18 before which I saw was in use: 14:57 osmbot-test Derick: Tag addr:flats has 1468 values and appears 5220 times in the planet. 14:58 osmbot-test Derick: Tag addr:flatnumber has 68 values and appears 113 times in the planet. Great, thank you, I will go with addr:flats. Whoever said that the OSM lexicon was peculiarly british? robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] Group relation proposal
On Thursday 22 March 2012, LM_1 wrote: I have created a new proposal for group relation (type). It is intended to reduce tagging duplication and make it easier to map dense public transport areas by grouping ways that are used by multiple transport lines (not having to add the same group to multiple route relations). The proposal is here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Group_Relation IMO this would make life significantly more painful for data consumers. robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Associated Press article: Crowds create Wikipedia-style maps of the world
On Thursday 22 March 2012, Spod OSM wrote: http://www.japantoday.com/category/lifestyle/view/crowds-create-wikipedia-style-maps-of-the-world?utm_campaign=jt_newsletterutm_medium=emailutm_source=jt_newsletter_2012-03-22_AM Wow - Waze - there's a blast from the past. robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] 23 ideas for osm and its forks
On Friday 13 January 2012, mick wrote: On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 02:00:17 +0100 Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: Hello world, I have written down all my ideas so far on an ideascale i setup http://fosm.ideascale.com/ here you have 23 new ideas for #osm, independent of how they are implemented, all applicable to osm commonmap fosm etc. you are invited to join the conversation. lets make the world a better place happy hacking, mike I applaud your efforts, OSM is good and has the potential to be truly great if more people thought about what could be done instead of shouting down any ideas that vary from their own blinkered vision. False. What OSM is short of is people who implement ideas and follow them through to completion. Ideas are something we've never been short of. robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] Project Drake - mapping the University of Cambridge
On Friday 09 December 2011, Ed Avis wrote: David Earl david@... writes: I'm not overly wedded to name=Clare College (University of Cambridge) and the like. Indeed, for the University rendering I will be removing these suffixes automatically because the context and colours will make it completely obvious. Well, in that case, can I urge you to tag for the renderer and remove the suffix from the data! I think anyone looking at a map of Cambridge might have an idea that there is a university there and that any colleges or academic-sounding buildings are more likely than not to be part of it. Don't forget that Cambridge is also the home of Anglia Ruskin University. robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] Friends
On Friday 02 December 2011, Janko Mihelić wrote: I would like the system to suggest friends, based on a number of indicators. Something like edits on the same place or edits power lines (bus routes, forests) like you or edits ways you drawn earlier or just started with openstreetmap near you, why don't you help him. And you can select if you want the system to suggest you or not. Similar ideas were discussed at the London hack weekend recently. But we need, you know, people to code it. robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fixed: Major problem with the map
On Friday 25 November 2011, dies38...@mypacks.net wrote: Thanks. Clearing the cache 'back to the beginning of time' fixed it for me. --OSM user ceyockey Yes - there's been a major update to the OpenStreetMap site in the last few days and it may require a shift-reload for up to date resources to be loaded. robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] OS Locator 201111 released, musical chairs updated to use it
On Tuesday 22 November 2011, Ed Avis wrote: Robert Scott lists@... writes: Does the comparison look at not:name tags? It will (it will mark them in pink), but only when the osl entry has actually been matched to that not:name-tagged osm way. Makes sense. But do you know why it didn't match in the example I mentioned? The not:name is the same as the name in OSL and the geometry is similar, although split into two ways in OSM. Because the presence of a better match - Marylands Road[1] - kicks it off the top spot, so the algorithm assumes this is talking about a different road. In the majority of cases OSL isn't stupid enough to spell the same road twice differently, so this rule usually works quite well. It stops a not-present Foobar Row being satisfied by a present Foobar Road nearby for instance. robert. [1] http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/oslmusicalchairs/map?osl_id=491372 ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] OS Locator 201111 released, musical chairs updated to use it
On Monday 21 November 2011, Ed Avis wrote: Great. Does the comparison look at not:name tags? For example object 4268860 is tagged to say that the OS Locator name is wrong, but is flagged in the check http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/oslmusicalchairs/map? zoom=18lat=51.52351lon=-0.1936layers=B0TTosl_id=491357view_mode=pseudorandom It will (it will mark them in pink), but only when the osl entry has actually been matched to that not:name-tagged osm way. This is because I take not:name to mean this way is not named xyz rather than no street named xyz exists. as the latter could cause some problems. robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] OS Locator 201111 released, musical chairs updated to use it
Hello everybody, The new OS Locator is out. I've just updated musical chairs. Same drill - for the next few days, the new entries will show up in the recent relevant updates view until they get covered up by the normal noise of real edits. http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/oslmusicalchairs I've also stuck my derived stable-id-corrected os locator file up on http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/oslmusicalchairs/data/oslocator along with all the others. Fun times. robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] Will OSM tiles be CC-0 soon?
On Wednesday 26 October 2011, Erik Johansson wrote: Hi I want to talk about the tiles, since they have always been a very important part of these project, ever since we got white-lines-on-landsat[1]. When we are ODBL pure, the tiles produced by OSMF servers can have any license with attribution. Will they continue to be CC-by-SA or do people think that the tiles license should change too? Keeping them as CC-BY-SA might give people another incentive to run their own tile server, as they would be able to get rid of the attribution text in the corner of their app. (am I right about this?) If they're using our server capacity, the least we can ask is for attribution etc. robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Will OSM tiles be CC-0 soon?
On Wednesday 26 October 2011, Erik Johansson wrote: the tiles produced by OSMF servers can have any license with attribution Hold on, I'm a bit confused here - CC-0 does not require attribution AFAICT. robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] The thread Roundabouts and routing
On Friday 09 September 2011, Anthony wrote: Is it just me Yes. or does the thread Roundabouts and routing (http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2011-September/060082.html) reflect a dysfunctional community? No. robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[Talk-GB] OS Locator Musical Chairs now deals with the welsh, more or less
Hello all, I've made a few updates to the matching algorithm in musical chairs [1]. First of all, it now checks the fields name, name:en, name:cy, name:gd and alt_name for the best match. Along with the normalization of accented characters, this now allows it to cope with wales a lot better [2]. So you don't have to stick the Ordnance Survey name for a street as the primary name just to get it to show up as a match. On top of that the levenshtein comparison now only gives half weighting to a spacing edit, which allows us to differentiate between differently spelt names and differently spaced names (which are often borderline/debatable anyway - there are plenty of streets with a name spaced one way on a sign at one end and spaced differently on a sign at the other). This is all made possible by writing a custom c postgres module to make it fast enough to be feasible. Thanks to TomH for trusting me enough to insert it ;) robert. [1] http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/oslmusicalchairs [2] http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/oslmusicalchairs/map?zoom=8lat=52.46286lon=-3.52652layers=B0TFview_mode=recentrelevantupdate ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] License/CT issues: Let's not punish the world's disadvantaged, pls.
On Thursday 23 June 2011, John Smith wrote: The data is rendered from FOSM data. Which is 100% sourced from OpenStreetMap data. robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] License/CT issues: Let's not punish the world's disadvantaged, pls.
On Thursday 23 June 2011, John Smith wrote: On 23 June 2011 21:53, Robert Scott li...@humanleg.org.uk wrote: On Thursday 23 June 2011, John Smith wrote: The data is rendered from FOSM data. Which is 100% sourced from OpenStreetMap data. I'm told there is at least 500 changesets not from OSM... Sorry, my bad, 99.99%. robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] License/CT issues: Let's not punish the world's disadvantaged, pls.
On Thursday 23 June 2011, John Smith wrote: On 23 June 2011 21:53, Robert Scott li...@humanleg.org.uk wrote: On Thursday 23 June 2011, John Smith wrote: The data is rendered from FOSM data. Which is 100% sourced from OpenStreetMap data. I find this ironic, if not out right amusing, OSM-F tries to hide any kind of attribution, yet you expect others to more prominently attribute OSM-F, which only a very small percentage if that, of the content can be contributed from OSM-F members. _What_? I can't find a single shred of logic here. Nearly all of the data was generated by OpenStreetMap contributors under the OpenStreetMap flag, so I think the attribution should be mostly to OpenStreetMap. I'm usually the first person to laugh at something, but I'm finding it hard to find anything amusing there. Only perhaps that we're all wasting time dealing with someone who is clearly out of touch with reality. robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] License/CT issues: Let's not punish the world's disadvantaged, pls.
On Thursday 23 June 2011, John Smith wrote: On 24 June 2011 01:02, Robert Scott li...@humanleg.org.uk wrote: Nearly all of the data was generated by OpenStreetMap contributors under the OpenStreetMap flag, so I think the attribution should be mostly to OpenStreetMap. For starters you are confusing OSM contributors with OSM-F who operates the website and what not, as for flags how about pitching a couple for companies either giving away data or giving away aerial imagery that can be derived from. None of which, not even contributors, get a mention where most maps attribute the companies that supplied data etc. So - what, you're saying we should be doing the whole list-ten-thousand-names-in-the-corner thing? I don't understand - what's your point? That not all people who contributed that data agree to the odbl? No, but the vast majority of active mappers did. But they _all_ submitted it to a site under the understanding of a license that would attribute that work to OpenStreetMap. I didn't think that was even being called into question. Or will you just call anything into question to keep the disruption going? More importantly, if fosm is so much more legitimate and important than OpenStreetMap, why are you still over here taking a dump on our list? robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] License/CT issues: Let's not punish the world's disadvantaged, pls.
On Thursday 23 June 2011, ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen wrote: @Eugene Please do not extend the discussion with incompatible examples. My example fits exactly the description of what is called forking: Try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_%28software_development%29 http://meatballwiki.org/wiki/RightToFork Funny you should bring this up - I was going to talk about software forks, but thought better of it. By your definition, Linux gets forked thousands of times a day, so surely must be a project in dire straits. Yet people somehow still know what Linux is and where to get it, because it tends to center itself around where all the competent people are. @Graham, My reaction was just against the accusation of dividing the community and create a competitor. Forking is a fundamental right in Open Stuff, and therefore not te be criticized in the way you do. The fact is that FOSM.ORG look more like OSM then OSM , as the latter excluded communitymembers that won't accept a majority choice. OSM voluntarily and willfully took the risk that some of us might start a fork. One of the founding piles under Open Software and Open Data. OSM has the right to change their license, especially when based on a majority acceptance (not to be called a vote) but the *changing party* is the fork, not the continuing half. End the fork took the assets boooh So because people have decided to start a voluntary project, they have to be answerable to absolutely everybody... everywhere... ever? No matter how unreasonable or logically warped they are (no names mentioned)? Everyone gets a veto on everything. Right? robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] License/CT issues: Let's not punish the world's disadvantaged, pls.
On Thursday 23 June 2011, John Smith wrote: More importantly, if fosm is so much more legitimate and important than OpenStreetMap, why are you still over here taking a dump on our list? You're the one making a big song and dance about things. I wouldn't say I'm making a song and dance about anything - I've managed to totally ignore all your licensing nonsense for a couple of years now, and I think my only replies on the subject have been in the last ten (?) hours. I personally don't give a hoot what your fork does. I don't think many people do. People here tend to be more interested in, you know, making maps. I just find it hard to see some of the absolute falsisms that have been brought up go by unchallenged. No actually I think I may have replied to some of your stuff a while ago when you were supposedly initiating your fork. But that must have been over a year ago now, and instead you decided to hang around and hijack discussions for another year. A year from now, will we still be having the same discussion do you think? I'm betting so. robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] OSM Analysis updated with new OS Locator data and a review of progress to date
Hi, Should have replied to this earlier but it got filed into the wrong folder. On Friday 10 June 2011, Chris Jones wrote: I've taken a look at a few towns in mid/south Wales using musical chairs. It seems that many of the listed 'no matches' are because the OS Locator data lists the Welsh Name for the street and when mapped the English name was used in the name tag. Often the welsh name is there too but in the 'name:cy' tag. Would it be possible to include 'name:cy' (and also 'name:gd' for Scotland) in your algorithm? Yes I do intend to do something with welsh and gaelic names. Have to figure out a fastish way of doing it without complicating the algorithm, but should be manageable. There's quite a todo list for musical chairs already though. robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] OSM Analysis updated with new OS Locator data and a review of progress to date
On Wednesday 08 June 2011, Steve Doerr wrote: I wonder if the good folks at ITO could devise a way to analyse the not:name tags in the database and see whether any of them are now redundant? In other words, are the OS correcting any of the mistakes we appear to have identified? I don't think it's a particularly awful thing for redundant not:name tags to stay in the database. I mean, the name is still not the value of the tag - the statement remains a truth. And who knows, next version of OS Locator could revert to the same error (how good are the OS at version control?). robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Musical Chairs updated with new OS Locator
Hello all, OS have released the May 2011 Locator database. I've updated musical chairs [1] to use this new database. Also excitingly I've noticed they now define the supplemental fields that come with each entry - so they are no longer just labelled u0-7 in my app (unknown0-7). So you know what your duty is. Look at your local area and see if there's anything new that you might have missed. Mostly new housing estates. Always interesting. robert. [1] http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/oslmusicalchairs ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] Extracting a BBOX from an osm change file
On Friday 11 March 2011, Rodolphe Quiedeville wrote: Hi, With osmosis-0.38 it's possible to extract data contains in a bbox from ans osm data file. But it appears that it's not work for an osm change file. I want to know if changes files from planet.openstreetmap.org/hourly-replicate/ are useful for a BBOX. My first idea wass to to this with osmosis, if someone give me a hint. There is no way of doing this properly, because of reasons that other posters have mentioned. But it is possible to do it in a lossy way that accepts the fact that transitions across the borders are going to cause slight wrongness. For some bounding boxes, like islands (I do this for the british isles), this can work quite well, as movements of objects across the borders will be minimal. I don't think there's any general off-the-shelf solution for doing this though. I developed my own code ( https://bitbucket.org/ris/oslmusicalchairs/src/e4c27e849345/planet.py ) to import changefiles into my project, cherrypicking the pieces of information that my app is interested in. robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] tagging for average speed cameras
On Friday 04 March 2011, Peter Miller wrote: Any thoughts about how should we tag highways equipped with average speed camera enforcement? Do you think that it is sufficient to just add 'highway=speed_camera' to the way in question? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dspeed_camera If so I will update the wiki with details that instant cameras should be on nodes and average cameras on ways. Dare I say it, this _is_ the right situation to use a relation. The camera nodes between which the average speed is calculated could be added to the relation in the correct order. Then again, this is the sort of detail that I'm sceptical we'll ever reach in openstreetmap in a remotely uniform (i.e. useful) way, so I'm not sure of the value of this level of complexity. robert. p.s. Then again again, the germans managed to map their whole power line network (?) didn't they? ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] OSM and The Big Society
On Wednesday 02 March 2011, davespod wrote: The Cabinet Office's Office for Civil Society has just published a report citing international examples of The Big Society. Case study number 1 is OpenStreetMap: http://www.arnaudriegert.com/wp-content/uploads/international-examples-big-society.pdf I feel dirty. robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] Massive import of airports
On Friday 17 December 2010, Stefan de Konink wrote: On Fri, 17 Dec 2010, Andrew Harvey wrote: On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 9:05 PM, Stefan de Konink ste...@konink.de wrote: Come on, this is non-sense. If someone accepted the CT and imports the data, it should be enough. I disagree, if there is reasonable evidence or suspicion that the data may have licensing problems then we should ask the source of that data for more details. If it turns out that the PD data really has been traced from say a Google Map, then at least under OSM policy that data cannot be uploaded to the database, hence we must remove that data. Someone is innocent until proven guilty. We are not a legal system. We are a project with funds that won't stretch very far when it comes to legal fees. robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] Ordnance Survey Opendata recent releases
On Thursday 25 November 2010, Bunny wrote: The latest release of OS Streetview® is now available 1/11/10 The November release of OS LocatorTM is now available 16/11/10 The November release of Code-Point Open is now available 18/11/10 See: http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/opendata/ OS Locator musical chairs has been updated to the Nov 2010 release. http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/oslmusicalchairs As with the last time I made a data update, anyone wanting to see an approximate visual summary of the changes between the two releases can choose the recent status updates view mode from the top right - for the next few days, most of the displayed changes at low zoom levels will be as a result of the Locator update. robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Ordnance Survey Opendata recent releases
On Thursday 25 November 2010, Bunny wrote: The latest release of OS Streetview® is now available 1/11/10 The November release of OS LocatorTM is now available 16/11/10 The November release of Code-Point Open is now available 18/11/10 See: http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/opendata/ Excellent! Thanks for the reminder. robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Hunt the London allotments - with wiki page
On Monday 20 September 2010, Tom Chance wrote: Since the tool doesn't allow us to tick off red markers where allotments definitely don't exist, please add any major disagreements to the list. If you've checked out a whole borough, mark it as complete. That way we will know when we've finished! Just to throw you all, The musical allotments branch now has a simple comments system. You can add comments to a particular datastore allotment, d.s. allotments with comments are filled in yellow (think post-it notes). Please don't abuse it - comments can't be deleted by users hence once an allotment has a comment it will forever be highlighted in yellow (unless I intervene), so I suggest using it as a way to mark allotments that are an odd one out for some reason. robert. Post-It and the Post-It brand are registered trademarks of the 3M Corporation. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] OS Locator data update
On Sunday 19 September 2010, Ed Avis wrote: Robert Scott li...@... writes: musical chairs[1] is now using the updated, May 2010 release of OS OpenData Locator. [1] http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/oslmusicalchairs Great! I think Peter Miller said that the people at ITO were going to feed back the not:name tags to the OS for their correction. Did this happen? I... don't know. But remember this data is May 2010, just one month after the initial release of OpenData. I don't think any of us even had our Locator tools going by then. robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] OS Locator data update
Like all cool people I spent my saturday evening merging streetname databases. This means that musical chairs[1] is now using the updated, May 2010 release of OS OpenData Locator. (The previous release was called OS_Locator2009_2.txt which I assumed to mean second half of 2009, so this is probably a normal 6-month update) The reason it wasn't a simple matter of dropping in the new Locator is I wanted to keep vaguely stable ids between OS Locator versions (Locator files don't come with any sort of id or primary key for entries) and had to devise a scheme to map my old ids to new entries etc. I'll discuss this further another time and publish a modified OS Locator file annotated with my assigned ids at some point if anybody wants it. If anyone's interested in the changes between the two Locators, for the next few days looking at low zoom levels of the country in recent changes mode will give you a fair summary: most of the shown changes will be as a result of the Locator database being changed. robert. [1] http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/oslmusicalchairs ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Datastore musical allotments
On Wednesday 15 September 2010, Will Abson wrote: Great tool! I've checked out my local area (Ealing) and there's a few disagreements marked for several allotments which are listed as 'Private Site' in the GLA data. Effectively there is no name present in the data for those sites, so perhaps this scenario could be catered for in the algorithm, e.g. do not flag the site based on name? It also raises the question of the owner/operator of allotment sites in the data. The wiki suggests operator=* for allotments, which would seem to be equivalent to the 'Organisation' field in the data, although this is not consistently recorded and is missing for the thirteen private allotments in Ealing. I'd second creating a wiki page to record additions/corrections to the data, assuming it is not straightforward to add a feedback function to the app. Well, the feedback functionality itself is not hugely non-straightforward (?) - the difficult bit is it means I have to get in to the sticky world of authentication. I don't want to create a free-for-all. I'd really like to be able to tie comments to osm accounts and that requires quite a bit of oauth work along with tying it into django's session/auth system. It's something I've wanted to do for a while with musical chairs but I've never really convinced myself it's worth investing the time. robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Datastore musical allotments
On Monday 13 September 2010, Ed Avis wrote: Neat! But how should the name of an allotment be tagged? In the data set they are often called after a street, as 'Seymour Road'. But in OSM it seems a bit daft to tag name=Seymour Road for any object that isn't the road itself. 'Seymour Road allotments' might be better. Could the check take account of that? Oh man you're just tuned straight in to mine and Tom's brains aren't you? Yeah, you might see this later in the week or after the weekend when I've had time to hack back in a feature I hacked out for the allotment fork (doh). robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Datastore musical allotments
Hi, After a request from Tom Chance I've created a strange little fork of musical chairs based on the allotment point data released by the London datastore ( http://data.london.gov.uk/datastore/package/allotment-locations ). The algorithm isn't really designed for this sort of matching ( it's far more concerned with names rather than absolute spatial location ), it still does a pretty good job of indicating whether there's a landuse=allotments way in close proximity to a datastore allotment. http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/dsmusicalallotments Anyway, it's a fun way for londoners to check whether they've got all their local allotments and if they've got the name right. robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation
On Sunday 22 August 2010, Felix Hartmann wrote: This means we have to find a new domain, new servers, and get the usernames/passwords copied so people can login to the CCBYSA 2.0 fork without new registration. How about you start with your own mailing lists? robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CC BYSA 2.0 continuation
On Sunday 22 August 2010, Jenny Campbell wrote: everyone else's concerns You are trying to make it sound like there are a huge number of people that agree with you. Perhaps you genuinely believe that. If so I think you are tremendously mistaken. It is a very vocal minority. There have been threats of a fork for about a year now from what I can remember. They have not gone anywhere so far. The only effect they have had is to be disruptive to those of us who want to be productive and use the various lists to discuss our productive activities. -talk has become near useless for that. I think most fork-threateners have no intention of doing anything other than disrupt things until they get their way. On Sunday 22 August 2010, Felix Hartmann wrote: Why should We? Is this mailinglist excluding anyone who does not agree to the Odbl? If so then clearly state this somewhere and tell everyone else so fuck off. You are proposing to start your own project. This project would not be OSM. This is a list to discuss OSM. I can't believe I have got sucked in to this, but I've spent so long watching this list degenerate. robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iPad app
On Saturday 21 August 2010, SteveC wrote: The problem with a remote app is that connectivity will really, really suck while you're out wandering around with an ipad. You'll be hopping cell towers, going on to broken wifi networks and half the time things will be very slow or timeout. It strikes me it'll be easier to handle all that in a native app than JS, but feel free to prove me wrong. You can make a webapp (almost) as server-connected or server disconnected as you like by making the right design decisions along the way. If you want you could have the only network communication be the initial code/page resource download and the download/upload changeset operations. robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iPad app
On Saturday 21 August 2010, Ben Last wrote: Or HTML5, which is a viable option on the iPad. The bigger issue might be with some of the hardwired limits on the size of all images used (our guys working on the iPad testing of the NearMap site have been coming up against this). Cheers With developments such as the geolocation API ( http://dev.w3.org/geo/api/spec-source.html ) it will become increasingly realistic to make custom moving map type mobile apps that are just glorified OpenLayers instances on the web. robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet more musical chairs updates.
On Monday 09 August 2010, Tim François wrote: ...which is why I suggested letting users have the *option* to turn them off as I recognise that some find the information useful (including the developer, as mentioned last week). It just bogs down my little netbook quite a bit, the poor thing. Aww. I was assuming most modern machines were fine with this because I do most stuff on my PII 400 (dual) (- no, that's not a typo) and, while it's slow loading it works reasonably well, and I thought _nobody_'s going to be using this with anything this slow. I'll have a think and also look at where (if) I can squeeze any more checkboxes/controls into the UI. It's up to the developer to decide what they think is important and not important, and I'm sure Robert does not take any offence at the questions/suggestions/critique leveled at him No not at all, I love people ripping things apart - I just think people think I have more time and mental resources than I do. And I haven't seen any concrete suggestions (that I agree with ;) yet. I'm also loathe to just add textual explanations to everything, as I think that's a bit of a cop-out which will also keep going out of date. For instance, I really want to rip out the whole matches concept and replace it with the more generic idea of states, but that will require a bunch of backend work and make any help that's not built into the UI concept out of date. I should be working. robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet more musical chairs updates.
On Sunday 08 August 2010, Dave F. wrote: It redraws all the different colour circles on the map (supposedly searching the database each time) list specific data on the right for the circle that was under the double click - pointless if you just want to zoom in. Oh! Yes - this is intended, and what's more it's vital that it keeps refreshing the view. When showing a non-authoritative view, the results it shows is highly dependent on the view's bounding box. It shows the first 1024 results. Obviously, it will show the first 1024 results in the area you're looking at. As you zoom in, it will adaptively (every two zoomlevels) increase the level of detail. This is necessary to keep showing the user a relevant amount of detail. You can't have people zooming all the way in to milton keynes and it still only show you the one little circle that was visible at the country level. Or do you expect people to have to manually click refresh every time they want more results? How would they discover that? More textual instructions? There's limited space on the panel. The non-authoritative views are only meant as a rough overview before you get zoomed in enough. Yeah, but you're looking at it from the perspective of the person who's programmed it knows it's every nuance. I'm looking at it from the view of a power user. Try looking at it from the point of view of the newbies - they'll want to zoom in to their local town, where they'll understand what they're looking at before deciphering all the options. The titles you use don't offer clarity for them. Musical Chairs, as a prime example, gives no indication of what the program does. No, I didn't consult a focus group before I slapped that name infront of it if that's what you're asking. Instead of a simple Help you've got What? even Algorithm - who, of those that want to *use* your web page need to know how it was programmed? If somebody really does, they can email you. It was written back when this stuff really was just an algorithm and I found a couple of free hours to write up an explanation. It's the only page I had on it - so I included a link to it. Under What? you give half the information required. Instead of explaining the differences in colours you just say It is coloured according to whether it has a similarly named and placed counterpart in OSM and how good the agreement is between them. Not specifically helpful. It's also out of date. That's the problem with writing help etc. It goes out of date as soon as you change things. Every time you add more help/documentation, you increase the burden of keeping it up to date. The trick is to _try_ and make it all as obvious and discoverable as possible. That was my idea with the little hoverable question mark. Why does it start at a zoom level that includes half of Northern Europe? Because when you tell openlayers to show a view including a certain bbox (GB) it picks the highest zoomlevel it can that will show the whole thing. You'll find that the next zoomlevel up will cut off part of GB. This is a half decent utility, to needs some teaks to make it user friendly. You are expecting too much from me. This is something I've hacked together in odd spare hours and half hours I've found now and then. Writing decent help would be great. But I primarily see this as a power user's tool that people who fix a lot of things can use to... er... fix a lot of things. If someone wants to do a whole UI survey on it, that would be lovely. Unfortunately this is how a lot of OSM software spends its life. Looked at JOSM lately? robert. ps- Patches are welcome. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet more musical chairs updates.
On Wednesday 04 August 2010, Dave F. wrote: Would it be possible to turn these circles off at lower zoom levels? Personally I like to double click on the map to zoom in at these levels as it centres the city I'm interested in so I can then use the bar to zoom accurately to the specific area I'm interested in. Success. I've monkeypatched OpenLayers so SelectFeature doesn't swallow dblclick events. There's also now a Show no/poor matches non-authoritative view mode. robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet more musical chairs updates.
On Wednesday 04 August 2010, Dave F. wrote: What's the different between the circles rectangles? Is it just to do with the zoom factor? When there are more than n (currently 1024) results in an area, it shows only the first n results. You can choose which n these are (random sample, most recently updated...). This is a non-authoritative view. Once the view is zoomed in far enough to show all results in an area, it shows an authoritative view. Non authoritative views are shown with circles, authoritative views show the actual OS Locator bounding boxes. This is partly to do with making a clear and obvious distinction between views where you're seeing everything and views where there are some thing you're not seeing . It's also to do with the way the two different types of geometry behave at different scales. If I showed the boxes at low zoomlevels, they would just end up being tiny subpixel dots. Would it be possible to turn these circles off at lower zoom levels? Personally I like to double click on the map to zoom in at these levels as it centres the city I'm interested in so I can then use the bar to zoom accurately to the specific area I'm interested in. Yeah that annoys me too. I tend to do the shift-drag-box more though. Previously you weren't able to select non-authoritative points at all, but last night I changed it so that you can make selections that appear to be persistent across the authoritative-non-authoritative boundary, as I found it stupid that you couldn't see details of a match without first zooming right the way in and possibly losing track of which result you were interested in. It would be nice if I could maybe hijack the doubleclick event and pass it to the map. I'll have to think about this. Are there any differences between what you've done ITO? My algorithm does fuzzy matching to find streets with smallish errors and AFAIK theirs doesn't. I keep a history of match state change events, which will probably be useful for some fun features in the future. Theirs supports not:name=, I haven't got round to that yet (I'm slightly more interested in being able to tag the actual OSL entry as being incorrect). They've got tiles which are very good for use in-editor. Mine, you've still got to pan around in a separate window. robert. (the first thing I've got to do though is fix a really stupid replication bug of mine) ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet more musical chairs updates.
On Wednesday 04 August 2010, Tim Francois wrote: My question still stands about the fact that there are LOADS of roads with the same name in OSL and OSM but are being flagged by a bright green rectangle. Why is this? In many cultures, green is considered a sign of good, OK, or everything's fine. You can see this usage for instance in our traffic lights. Hence a green OSL entry - one that's fine. Facetiousness aside, I am going to add a non-authoritative mode which shows bad matches first, but I still think it's important to show _all_ OSL entries in authoritative mode. I have tried to tone down the near perfect matches to be less bright green but they can still appear quite bright when there are many overlapping. Also, how often is this data updated these days? Nightly with the odd extra update in the daytime if I want to try something out. robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet more musical chairs updates.
On Wednesday 04 August 2010, you wrote: Out of curiosity, why is it important to show _all_ OSL entries? Is there a way to not show the ones where OSL==OSM? Well, it's certainly important for me to be able to see potential matching problems. An OSL street's match is influenced by its neighbours, so even if an OSL entry is matched perfectly, it can still have an effect on other entries. The reason I was confused was that it was showing as a bright green rectangle (which I correctly assumed meant that OSL matched OSM, as you've just confirmed), but when clicking on the rectangle it says Near perfect match, even though the road names are identical (save for CAPS). Are we going for the 'nothing is perfect' approach here?! :) Capitalization, apostrophes and also street/st , road/rd , saint/st type situations are not distinguished between. Anyways, good stuff - just integrate into JOSM or Potlatch and we're done I kid, I kid!! Muh. I would love it, but there's no standard way of doing this sort of thing. I suppose someone could write a PL2 data layer :) robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet more musical chairs updates.
On Wednesday 04 August 2010, a_snail wrote: Also, with regards to the green boxes that show near matches, any chance you could say why it's a near match i.e. is it the spelling of the road name, classification, or possibly the location of the road. The nearness metric of the match is purely (fuzzy-) name based. Streets that are too far away are just not considered matches at all. Classification isn't taken into account as it's not something thats given in OS Locator. robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet more musical chairs updates.
On Wednesday 04 August 2010, Graham Jones wrote: I have the same problem using Google Chrome on Ubuntu Linux. Works ok with Firefox though. Graham. On 4 August 2010 20:08, Ian Caldwell ian1caldwell+...@googlemail.comian1caldwell%2b...@googlemail.com wrote: Is just me or does musical chairs not work with the Chrome Browser. I cannot select the boxes. I can interestingly select the circles? Ian Yes! I could swear it _used_ to work on chrome (or I'm going crazy) - but recently I haven't been able to get it to work. Problem is, chrome does this silent background upgrading thing, so I have no idea whether it's a regression in my code or a regression in chrome that got pushed out to all users. I'm leaning towards the latter as I've rolled back to some previous revisions which I seem to remember working on chrome and they still don't work on a current system. gg Google. I've investigated it a fair amount but to no avail (the dev tools are unfortunately not as powerful as firebug). Any insights welcome. It works on all other browsers I have access to though. robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Yet more musical chairs updates.
Hello everybody, I'm sure you all feel you've heard enough about my recent activities by now, but I do quite like the latest things I've added to musical chairs. There are now multiple view modes for high zoom levels - determining which entries the db will prioritize when there are too many entries to show at once. http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/oslmusicalchairs Try selecting 'recent status updates' in the top right selector. It will show you where the most recent streetname-related activity has been. robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Map layer with OS Locator comparison from ITO - handling already-tagged fixmes
On Wednesday 14 July 2010, Ed Avis wrote: Thanks for getting the OS Locator tiles updating again. Could I make a feature request? Often when OS and OSM disagree I will tag this in the OSM database with a note such as FIXME=Check name - OSM has Marefield Gardens, OS has Maresfield Gardens Usually I will also delete the name= tag, so that the street shows up in noname checks to be resurveyed (and because the correct name is unknown). It would be useful for these already-looked-at cases to be excluded from the Locator check, since they are being flagged separately by noname checks. I know this was briefly discussed earlier on the list. We could spend all month discussing a suitably elaborate tagging scheme of fixme:name:OS_OpenData_Locator:resurvey=yes;osm_value=x;os_value=y. However, I propose not inventing any new tagging for this. Rather, look to see if the OS name is mentioned as a substring in one of the tag values. That would show that somebody at least is aware of it, and would catch various tagging schemes including the FIXME one I've been using. I really think this is exactly the sort of thing that does not belong in the OSM database, which is why I am working on a separate but connected database of manually overridable match states. Development isn't as fast as I'd like it to be due to work constraints and my home processing power being limited (testing can take a while). robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Map layer with OS Locator comparison from ITO - handling already-tagged fixmes
On Wednesday 14 July 2010, Sam Larsen wrote: With all this talk of changing street names, can i just remind you to make sure that if you are changing street names that there are no addresses liked to that street. I have added many addresses linked to streets using Karlsruhe schema (without relations) - i guess this is where relations would help. I just did it the way the germans did it - they seem to know what they are doing. If there are, either change them also, or add a fixme tag or something. I must admit I hadn't thought about this. This would complicate the situation slightly. Perhaps this is the job of some other analysis tool that simply checks a nearby same-named highway exists for every stated addr:street. This would prompt on situations where the highway was fixed but not the addr:street. Does keepright do something like this? robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Map layer with OS Locator comparison from ITO
On Tuesday 13 July 2010, Peter Miller wrote: We took a look and there was indeed a problem with it refusing to use the recent planet data! We have fixed it and everything should be working fine again now. Thanks for reporting it. The delay in responding was caused both by journey back from sotm and then getting to the bottom of the issue. Peter, If you like, when I get my automated updates to musical chairs going properly*, I could engineer some way of providing regular dumps of data that you could render from. This way your tiles would also have fuzzy near matches. Let me know if you want me to do something about it. robert. * am investigating doing minutely (effectively live) updates, which is _very_ exciting, or at least as exciting as automated street name matching gets. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] You have killed accessibility!
On Thursday 01 July 2010, lulu-...@gmx.de wrote: There is a possibility to have captchas with audio output. Yes, and strangely enough the admins, not being idiots, did consider this beforehand. Unfortunately there is an issue with our current version of mediawiki and recaptcha. In the meantime, the spammers were having their wicked way with our wiki. I'm sure this will be sorted out soon. Panic will do nothing to speed it up. robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] OpenLayers interface to OS Locator Musical Chairs
On Saturday 26 June 2010, Peter Miller wrote: A few suggestions: 1) Can you provide a quick link from your slippery browser to an view of the same area using the main OSM browser for quick editing? 2) Can you provide a 'Potlach edit', 'JOSM edit' link and OSM Way history link if you have a OSM feature selected? I did these over the hack weekend and they're up now. 3) Can you provide experiment with matching up a way that has a similar bounding box to an unmatched OS Locator bounding box where there is only one candidate and the match is pretty good? The first two of the above will just speed up the current process, the last one is possibly leading to your system suggesting names for existing un-named ways in OSM which will be very handy for naming cull- de-sacs. Interesting. I wonder how good I could make the matches. I'm not sure people should be going round mapping cul-de-sacs without noting names anyway though should they? Might be fun to make a josm/(whatever) plugin that autosuggests a newly entered street's name. It would of course be a nice adjunct to functionality to import OS Vector District data and stitch that into the existing OSM data and one it could then even suggest a batch of changes to an area but one step at a time. Tricky because OSVD is really a rendering-oriented shapefile and not at all topologically correct. As well as respecting the not:name field you might like to also consider being sensitive to the FIXME field which I use to identify ways that need a ground survey to resolve the issue - possibly actually we need a tag which means 'ground survey needed' so that people can go out with a list of things to check in an area in one go and ensure that they don't miss anything. I could possibly show FIXMEs in the match info. There are a bunch of things I need to do first though. Port the matching modules of my code to postgis, set up daily incremental auto-imports of data, and I also want to refactor a lot of the javascript to use the more generic concept of statuses rather than matches. And I should probably also rewrite my info pages so they sound less like the ramblings of a lunatic. robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Map layer with OS Locator comparison fro m ITO -apostrophes
On Tuesday 15 June 2010, Ed Avis wrote: Perhaps a Levenshtein distance between OS and OSM street names could be computed: find all the OSM names in the bounding box, pick the one with the closest Levenshtein distance, and then colour the rectangle accordingly, with less saturated colours being used for closer matches... If you don't mind running the code locally yourself*, my system does this sort of thing and more ( new screenshot: http://humanleg.org.uk/code/oslmusicalchairs/oslmcscreen_20100615.png , Description of algorithm: http://humanleg.org.uk/code/oslmusicalchairs/ ). Code available at http://bitbucket.org/ris/oslmusicalchairs/ . robert. * I am still working on getting a public instance hosted. dev.openstreetmap.org doesn't do python/WSGI as of yet. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] gt;- Map layer with OS Locator comparison from ITO
On Thursday 03 June 2010, Peter Miller wrote: It's great to hear other people saying they would like to help the OS get there mapping better - I posed the question on one of the OSM lists a few years ago and got an overwhelming 'no' and 'over my dead body'. I could guess about why the mood is different on this list now, but possibly it is in part that we are now getting something from the OS and would like to return the favour. I will make my contact in the OS aware of this discussion and invite him to respond. Who knows, we may even get official OS participation on this list which would be great. I think there's a big attitude of share and share alike amongst OSMers rather than any animosity to any particular organization or other. Having said that, I fear the legal issues will not let this idea get very far. A name discrepancy between OSM and OSL data itself is a derived work of OSM. Although perhaps feeding a list along the lines of you might like to recheck these roads is different (?). Either way, it's a complex situation. robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] - Map layer with OS Locator comparison from ITO
On Wednesday 02 June 2010, Jerry Clough - OSM wrote: I for one would miss a publicly-deployed version. The matching of strings really makes a difference between your data and the ITO one: 1. in well-mapped areas one finds a few places which either have not been surveyed or require a re-survey, whereas the ITO comparison layer largely shows finger trouble. So far I've found them completely complementary: yours for the big picture, ITO locator comparison for the nitty-gritty of getting fluff out of the data. 2. in areas with large numbers of nonames the ITO layer just has too much data (and I have been trying to bang in names N of Liverpool). 3. Data from Musical Chairs gives a better handle on completeness, but when compared with the ITO figures we can assess quality/validation as well. Well either way, I'll be dumping the code for whatever I do up on bitbucket for anyone to use. robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] - Map layer with OS Locator comparison from ITO
On Tuesday 01 June 2010, Peter Miller wrote: We did have a similar discussion in-house at the design stage. We could of course implement this and the data would then be locked away into our systems and be hard for others to access and use for other purposes unless we do further work to ensure that it is. We didn't want to give any hint of an impression that we were trying to 'privatise' knowledge about OSM and wanted to get something out fast. It would also ensure that the information was not available to others using other tools unless they went to extra effort to read our files. I guess someone could put a monitor onto the minutely feeds to warn about such changes and request that the change be reverted, but this seems to be a lot more complicated. All in all the proposed approach ensures that this 'intelligence' is generally available, and will be available on suitable and compatible license to all. It is also flexible to deal with all sorts of 'mis- information' which may have a habit of getting into the DB and can easily be filtered out by people who which to have a more restricted set of features. You see, this is the way I looked at it: This way you're taking a list of OSL streets , doing a match and then entering information about the OSL database into OSM (which I'll admit has its advantages as far as data distribution goes). Among the problems will come up is the fact that you don't have _real_ 1:1 correspondence of feature - feature. There are often many OSM ways corresponding to a single OSL entry. Even things like bridges or speed limit changes cause us to start a new way. Are we supposed to put name:not in all of them? Rather than doing that, I thought: so, let's treat the OSL database as a list. We want to be able to go through the list and for each entry we want to be able to tick it off as Got that/OSL is wrong/Acceptable alternate spelling/Not appropriate to be an OSM name/etc , ideally until we have no outstanding disagreements left. In this way, what we'd be doing is making an augmented version of the OSL database, rather than shoving this information into OSM. This is what I've been working on - http://humanleg.org.uk/code/oslmusicalchairs/oslmcscreen_20100601.png [1][2] - is what I have working at the moment. Each box is an OSL entry. . The controls on the right would include the ability to change the status of the OSL entry. I do agree that there are problems with the data being locked away on a separate server, but I thought regular published dumps would help there. After all, it's just an augmented OSL database. I could (and probably will once I get more time) get the matching algorithm to respect the :not entry, which I think is actually a really good idea for OSM in general. Lots of features have common misspellings. robert. [1] - Note the coordinate transform offset. It's just a 27700 - 4326 srid transform, but it's not working right! Can anyone please help me with this?! [2] - Yes, it has the disadvantage of not being in the same screen as the editor, necessitating a bit of parallel panning. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Map layer with OS Locator comparison from ITO
On Monday 31 May 2010, Peter Miller wrote: We have created a map layer for Potlatch showing OS Locator names which are not in the nearby OSM data in a nice visual way. Details in our blog post of the subject. http://itoworld.blogspot.com/2010/05/os-locator-validation-mapping-for-uk.html To access the tiles paste the following into the custom layer box in Potlatch (or similar in JOSM). http://tiles.itoworld.com/os_locator/!/!/!.png Note our proposed 'not:name' tag for suppressing errors in OS Locator data. This could be extended to 'not:ref' and 'not:access' etc etc. I hope there is not another convention for blocking tag values that we have overlooked. If there is we will of course adjust our code to accommodate it. there is a 48 hour delay until new data appears on the tiles. Ie, monday edits will appear on wednesday etc. Oh. I've been working on something quite similar, only more openstreetbugs-inspired and openlayers-based using my musical chairs results. robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Offsets between OS and OSM data (was Building with mapseg)
Funny this subject should come up. Working with the OS Locator data, I'm finding the bounding boxes to be constantly about 50m to the east. In the south, they're also about 30m south. In scotland they're about 10m north. I'm using the srid transform 27700 - 4326. What am I doing wrong? robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] US to spend $8bn upgrading GPS constellation
On Wednesday 26 May 2010, Maarten Deen wrote: Can someone explain to me why an ATM would need a GPS in order to dispense cash? Or why Wall Street needs it to trade? These things are stationary. Ok, maybe stock traders can use it to see where shipments of the companies the trade in are, but that seems pretty far fetched. Still, ATMs? My guess is they use the time signal. Perhaps the terrestrial radio time signals aren't secure enough. robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[Talk-GB] OSL Musical Chairs code up.
Hi again all, I've given the comparison script a bit of a tidy and put the code up so you can all play with it to your hearts content. http://humanleg.org.uk/code/oslmusicalchairs#code robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] OS Locator / OSM correspondence list generation
On Friday 14 May 2010, Tim François wrote: For something that can be imported to editors, why not generate a GPX file? JOSM loads these natively. Or am I missing something...? I suppose it's not really the file format that's the issue - it's more about the mechanism inside the editor to deal with the data. I'm thinking perhaps providing an openlayers map might be the best way to do it for now, even if it does mean a user has to keep switching between browser windows to use it. Also, I'm interested in the speed of your script: how long does it take to process the entire GB.osm? On my Celeron M 320 laptop (fastest machine I have) the whole process takes a few hours. The slowest thing is actually importing the planet extract and generating the bounding boxes for the OSM ways. The actual matching takes less than an hour I'd say (it's difficult to say an exact figure, at the moment a few of the steps are still done by hand and require manual intervention so I've never run the whole thing against the clock). There's an updated version up now with a newer planet and more robust name normalization. Once I get some more time I will concentrate on getting the script smartened up and rolling the remaining manual steps into it. robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] OS Locator / OSM correspondence list generation
Hi all, I've been running some countrywide comparisons of the recently released OS Locator against the streets in OSM, using fuzzy string matching and the supplied bounding boxes to attempt to match each street in each dataset to one in the other. It's worked pretty well for most areas I tested. Of the ~826k named streets in OS Locator, about 424k of them have near perfect matches in OSM. A few tens of thousands more have what I would call spelling 'disagreements'. The rest of them have bad or no matches at all. I've put a description of the technique up here along with the preliminary results: http://humanleg.org.uk/code/oslmusicalchairs The thing I really need is suggestions for getting this data to users in a way that's practical to work with. It's a CSV currently. Thoughts welcome. So are bug reports of where my matching algorithm has gotten things wrong. robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
