Re: [Talk-GB] An NTC Training Centre

[Jez Nicholson]

Thanks Tony. I've gone with that.

On Fri, Dec 18, 2020 at 11:11 AM Tony Shield  wrote:

> I have used amenity=community_centre for my local Sea Cadet centre,
> On 18/12/2020 10:25, Jez Nicholson wrote:
>
> I just noticed "T. S. Zealous" https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/181524096
> which peaked my interest. Turns out it is a Nautical Training Corps (NTC)
> centre http://www.ntc.org.uk/zealous/
>
> Any hints on how to tag that? building=civic? There must be precedent for
> Scout huts and the like...
>
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[Talk-GB] An NTC Training Centre

[Jez Nicholson]

I just noticed "T. S. Zealous" https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/181524096
which peaked my interest. Turns out it is a Nautical Training Corps (NTC)
centre http://www.ntc.org.uk/zealous/

Any hints on how to tag that? building=civic? There must be precedent for
Scout huts and the like...
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Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging of historic 'stink pipes'

[Jez Nicholson]

Nice one Ed. Great to get a local civic society interested too. Can't
comment on the tag, but you could also suggest to them: a) an Overpass
Turbo query they could use to generate a map, take a screenshot, and
display on their web site for free (with appropriate attribution), b) add
the photos to Wikimedia Commons and reference them from the OSM nodes.

>From my OpenPlaques work, I'd really love to see more civic and history
societies understanding how easy it is for them to create Open Data.

On Fri, Dec 18, 2020 at 8:41 AM Edward Bainton 
wrote:

> Morning all
>
> My local civic society is collecting the location of 'stink pipes',
> Victorian sewer ventilation shafts in cast iron. Pics here:
> https://twitter.com/TobyWoody/status/1339679166371926017/photo/1
>
> I've suggested they use OpenStreetMap and suggested a node with tag
> historic=ventilation_shaft. Does that seem the right tag?
>
> Also do people know a rendering that will highligh all the "historic"
> features?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Edward
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Re: [Talk-GB] Solar panels on Alvares House in Homerton

[Jez Nicholson]

As an aside, I do see on RightMove that the thing that looks like a
swimming pool isn'tit is a children's play area.

You could check the planning permission maybe?

On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 3:09 PM Mat Attlee  wrote:

> In surveying and adding Alvares House in Homerton in London, I noticed
> that the Bing aerial photos seem to indicate solar panels on the roof
> though I can't find any details on them
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/882360871
>
> Cheers
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Re: [Talk-GB] Recycling Points

[Jez Nicholson]

Hi Michael,

The issue is that Golf Drive Recycling Point is not a [single] recycling
container, it is a group of recycling containers.

Talking to a waste expert today I'm told an industry term is "bring site"
as anybody may bring their recycling hereas opposed to a Household
Waste Recycling Centre where only local residents may.

Regards,
  Jez

On Sat, 28 Nov 2020, 13:10 Michael Booth,  wrote:

> Jez, I'm confused :)
>
> Your first email recognised the difference between a recycling centre
> (i.e. a council-run 'tip' / 'dump' that you can normally drive into) and a
> recycling point (i.e. one with containers, found in supermarket car parks
> etc.).
>
> So I'm really not sure why you would tag the "Golf Drive Recycling Point"
> as recycling_type=centre when it is clearly recycling_type=container?
> There's really only two options in the OSM data, and photos on the wiki
> page also make it clear which is which:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:recycling_type
>
> Examples in Aberdeen - centre: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/116883204
> and container: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/464736817
>
> On 27/11/2020 09:40, Jez Nicholson wrote:
>
> Agreed, "point" sucks as a value, I won't use itmy fundamental reason
> for it not being a 'centre' was size, but a Recycling Point _could_ be seen
> as a mini Recycling Centre that only accepts recyclable waste. You can see
> a perimeter boundary by the concrete area it is set on. I could go with a
> site relation but you can't physically carry out other activities between
> the constituent objects (unlike a wind farm).
>
> I will try with 'centre' and including 'Recycling Point' in the name.
>
> On Fri, 27 Nov 2020, 08:58 Dan S,  wrote:
>
>> Op do 26 nov. 2020 om 19:21 schreef Jez Nicholson <
>> jez.nichol...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Okay, bear with. I know that this is detailed mapping, but I enquired a
>>> while ago on the amenity:recycling talk page and a single recycling
>>> container == a single node. A group of containers == a group of nodes.
>>>
>>> Here is an image of the highly attractive Golf Drive Recycling Point
>>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Golf_Drive_Recycling_Point.jpg
>>> featuring 6 * "amenity"="recycling" + "recycling_type"="container" which
>>> accept different items including
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/8168379145 glass,
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/8168379151 cans, cardboard, paper,
>>> plastic bottles, and https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/8168379142 a
>>> clothes bank.
>>>
>>> The area they are contained in is called "Golf Drive Recycling Point".
>>> There's a sign that says so. I've added a polygon
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/877940580 as "amenity"="recycling" +
>>> "recycling_type"="point"
>>>
>>> I can only really see containers or centres in
>>> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/keys/recycling_type#values but
>>> this place is neither.
>>>
>>> Are you offended by "amenity"="recycling" + "recycling_type"="point"? It
>>> seems like the UK term for it.
>>>
>>>
>> Honestly, "point" seems dangerously prone to misunderstanding, when used
>> as a value here in OSM. I know we tend to say "recycling point", but that
>> doesn't mean that we say "point". "I'll just go to the point".
>>
>> I wish I could suggest a good alternative word, e.g. a word we already
>> use for some other type of feature.
>>
>> What is the fundamental reason this is not a recycling_type=centre? Is it
>> the size? (If so, no problem - use "centre" on a suitable polygon.) Is it
>> the fact that it's unstaffed? (Could use self_service=only or
>> supervised=no.) Is it that there's no perimeter boundary?
>>
>> Best
>> Dan
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 26, 2020 at 4:25 PM Jeremy Harris  wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 26/11/2020 11:16, Jez Nicholson wrote:
>>>> > Am I missing something, or is there no concept of a Recycling Point
>>>> in OSM?
>>>> > Have you seen/used anything else?
>>>>
>>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:recycling_type>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>Jeremy
>>>>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Recycling Points

[Jez Nicholson]

Agreed, "point" sucks as a value, I won't use itmy fundamental reason
for it not being a 'centre' was size, but a Recycling Point _could_ be seen
as a mini Recycling Centre that only accepts recyclable waste. You can see
a perimeter boundary by the concrete area it is set on. I could go with a
site relation but you can't physically carry out other activities between
the constituent objects (unlike a wind farm).

I will try with 'centre' and including 'Recycling Point' in the name.

On Fri, 27 Nov 2020, 08:58 Dan S,  wrote:

> Op do 26 nov. 2020 om 19:21 schreef Jez Nicholson  >:
>
>> Okay, bear with. I know that this is detailed mapping, but I enquired a
>> while ago on the amenity:recycling talk page and a single recycling
>> container == a single node. A group of containers == a group of nodes.
>>
>> Here is an image of the highly attractive Golf Drive Recycling Point
>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Golf_Drive_Recycling_Point.jpg
>> featuring 6 * "amenity"="recycling" + "recycling_type"="container" which
>> accept different items including
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/8168379145 glass,
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/8168379151 cans, cardboard, paper,
>> plastic bottles, and https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/8168379142 a
>> clothes bank.
>>
>> The area they are contained in is called "Golf Drive Recycling Point".
>> There's a sign that says so. I've added a polygon
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/877940580 as "amenity"="recycling" +
>> "recycling_type"="point"
>>
>> I can only really see containers or centres in
>> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/keys/recycling_type#values but this
>> place is neither.
>>
>> Are you offended by "amenity"="recycling" + "recycling_type"="point"? It
>> seems like the UK term for it.
>>
>>
> Honestly, "point" seems dangerously prone to misunderstanding, when used
> as a value here in OSM. I know we tend to say "recycling point", but that
> doesn't mean that we say "point". "I'll just go to the point".
>
> I wish I could suggest a good alternative word, e.g. a word we already use
> for some other type of feature.
>
> What is the fundamental reason this is not a recycling_type=centre? Is it
> the size? (If so, no problem - use "centre" on a suitable polygon.) Is it
> the fact that it's unstaffed? (Could use self_service=only or
> supervised=no.) Is it that there's no perimeter boundary?
>
> Best
> Dan
>
>
>
>> On Thu, Nov 26, 2020 at 4:25 PM Jeremy Harris  wrote:
>>
>>> On 26/11/2020 11:16, Jez Nicholson wrote:
>>> > Am I missing something, or is there no concept of a Recycling Point in
>>> OSM?
>>> > Have you seen/used anything else?
>>>
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:recycling_type>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Cheers,
>>>Jeremy
>>>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Recycling Points

[Jez Nicholson]

Okay, bear with. I know that this is detailed mapping, but I enquired a
while ago on the amenity:recycling talk page and a single recycling
container == a single node. A group of containers == a group of nodes.

Here is an image of the highly attractive Golf Drive Recycling Point
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Golf_Drive_Recycling_Point.jpg
featuring 6 * "amenity"="recycling" + "recycling_type"="container" which
accept different items including
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/8168379145 glass,
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/8168379151 cans, cardboard, paper,
plastic bottles, and https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/8168379142 a
clothes bank.

The area they are contained in is called "Golf Drive Recycling Point".
There's a sign that says so. I've added a polygon
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/877940580 as "amenity"="recycling" +
"recycling_type"="point"

I can only really see containers or centres in
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/keys/recycling_type#values but this
place is neither.

Are you offended by "amenity"="recycling" + "recycling_type"="point"? It
seems like the UK term for it.

On Thu, Nov 26, 2020 at 4:25 PM Jeremy Harris  wrote:

> On 26/11/2020 11:16, Jez Nicholson wrote:
> > Am I missing something, or is there no concept of a Recycling Point in
> OSM?
> > Have you seen/used anything else?
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:recycling_type>
>
> --
> Cheers,
>Jeremy
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Recycling Points

[Jez Nicholson]

"amenity"="recycling" + "recycling:type"="centre" == Council Tip
"amenity"="recycling" + "recycling:type"="container" == a single recycling
box, so multiple would appear at a Recycling Point

On Thu, Nov 26, 2020 at 1:22 PM Dan S  wrote:

> Hi Jez
>
> Is this not it?
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Drecycling
>
> Op do 26 nov. 2020 om 13:08 schreef Jez Nicholson  >:
>
>> I'm planning some work with Household Waste Recycling Centres and
>> Recycling Points during the Code The City OSM hack weekend this Sat/Sun
>> (which you are very welcome to join
>> https://codethecity.org/what-we-do/hack-weekends/code-the-city-21-put-your-city-on-the-map/
>> in any capacity you like)
>>
>> A Recycling Centre being the local 'tip', see
>> https://www.aberdeencity.gov.uk/services/bins-and-recycling/find-your-nearest-recycling-centre
>>
>> A Recycling Point being a cluster of recycling containers in, say, at the
>> end of your local supermarket car park. Often given a name by the Council,
>> see
>> https://www.aberdeencity.gov.uk/services/bins-and-recycling/recycling-points
>>
>> Am I missing something, or is there no concept of a Recycling Point in
>> OSM? Have you seen/used anything else?
>>
>> - Jez
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[Talk-GB] Recycling Points

[Jez Nicholson]

I'm planning some work with Household Waste Recycling Centres and Recycling
Points during the Code The City OSM hack weekend this Sat/Sun (which you
are very welcome to join
https://codethecity.org/what-we-do/hack-weekends/code-the-city-21-put-your-city-on-the-map/
in any capacity you like)

A Recycling Centre being the local 'tip', see
https://www.aberdeencity.gov.uk/services/bins-and-recycling/find-your-nearest-recycling-centre

A Recycling Point being a cluster of recycling containers in, say, at the
end of your local supermarket car park. Often given a name by the Council,
see
https://www.aberdeencity.gov.uk/services/bins-and-recycling/recycling-points

Am I missing something, or is there no concept of a Recycling Point in OSM?
Have you seen/used anything else?

- Jez
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Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN wiki page

[Jez Nicholson]

Good stuff. We are all learning here. And the raw data is deliberably
obfuscated.

Some of the UPRNs near road junctions are mysterious. They could be old IDs
for objects since removed. Do we have a full list of what objects could be
included?

My personal opinion is that UPRNs never apply to a road or road section.
They apply to something that you cannot see, like a grit bin that is no
longer there.

The only potentially legit duplicate I've seen so far is adjacent
postboxes. They might get a single UPRN between them.

On Wed, 18 Nov 2020, 09:58 James Derrick,  wrote:

> Morning all,
>
> On 17/11/2020 15:32, Mark Goodge wrote:
>
> what we have is what, from a mapping perspective, is a single road
> (Glazebury Way), but that comprises multiple OSM ways. So it's not
> unreasonable to add the UPRN to all the ways which make up the road.
>
> However, in this case I think I am talking bollocks. Although the OSM
> mapper has assigned UPRN 10071171668 to Glazebrook Way, the OS OpenUPRN
> OpenUSRN and OpenMap lookups link it to Gairloch Close. If we look at
> Gairloch Close (USRN 3230053) on my USRN map:
>
>
> Owning up, that mapper is me! 
>
> Just as Rob N added U*RN to his portfolio of useful visualisation tools, I
> noticed that adding UPRN to building=* gave location-checked green circles,
> adding UPRN to highway=* didn't seem to.
>
> As an experiment, I added the same ID to both ref:GB:usrn and ref:GB:uprn
> tags and promptly forgot about the double tagging.
>
> Jez let me know in a changeset discussion here, and the errant tag
> removed:
>
>   https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/90968241
>
> So, if there's any talking bollocks here - it's been uttered by me on home
> turf!
>
>
> I've removed the experimental double-tagging, and attempted to create a
> basic Overpass Turbo query to look for (what could be) incorrect values:
>
> ---cut here---
>
> [out:json][timeout:25];
> // gather results
> (
>   // node or way double tagged
>   node["ref:GB:usrn"]["ref:GB:uprn"]({{bbox}});
>   way["ref:GB:usrn"]["ref:GB:uprn"]({{bbox}});
>   // highway with Property
>   way["ref:GB:uprn"]["highway"]({{bbox}});
>   // building with Street
>   node["ref:GB:usrn"]["building"]({{bbox}});
>  way["ref:GB:usrn"]["building"]({{bbox}});
> );
> // print results
> out body;
> >;
> out skel qt;
>
> ---cut here---
>
>
> And now down the rabbit hole...
>
> there's a single linked UPRN that appears to be on Glazebury Way, or at
> least the intersection of Glazebury Way and Gairloch Close, rather than one
> of the properties on Gairloch Close. Follow that link, and it's UPRN
> 10071171668:
>
> https://uprn.uk/10071171668
>
> Now, there's nothing more we can discover from the maps and lookups, given
> that the OS open data doesn't tell us precisely what it is and the maps
> aren't sufficiently high-resolution. But if we cheat a bit and go to the
> location on Google Maps, then switch into street view:
>
> https://goo.gl/maps/ojwFAP21D4HkUvX77
>
> I have a strong hunch that UPRN 10071171668 is actually a subsurface
> property (eg, a utilities conduit) accessed via that manhole cover.
>
>
> Now that's a whole level of complexity which I wasn't previously aware of.
> If the data set includes data for ALL entity types (e.g. not just
> buildings, streets and the odd post box), then my assumption that a U*RN in
> the middle of a highway which looks like a logical centre point for a way
> segment could be incorrect.
>
> Looking out of my window (I did say this is home turf...) there is a foul
> drain cover at the intersection of Glazebury/ Gisburn, and likely one at
> Glazebury/ Gisburn (it's currently chucking it down here, so not keen to
> check immediately).
>
> Building UPRN tags appear to be more clear-cut, with the U*SN location
> node around the centre of a building way.
>
> As we all learn more about the data, perhaps I (and others?) may have been
> to quick to add USRN tags as they first became available?
>
> As several of you appear to have additional sources to validate USRN,
> could you offer any suggestions to alter these specific highway=residential
> please?
>
>
> James
> --
> James Derrick
> li...@jamesderrick.org, Cramlington, England
> I wouldn't be a volunteer if you paid me...
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/James%20Derrick
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Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN wiki page

[Jez Nicholson]

>From my change request discussion it appears that the UPRN appeared on the
road as part of a test of Robert's Mathmos matching.

On Tue, 17 Nov 2020, 16:15 Mark Goodge,  wrote:

>
>
> On 17/11/2020 15:41, Robert Skedgell wrote:
>
> > Roads can have more than one USRN. I've come across some sections of
> > road which appear to have more than one Designated Street Name record
> > (possibly streets which cross authority boundaries?). In addition to
> > this, there may be records of types Unofficial Street Name, Officially
> > Described Street and Numbered Street.
>
> Trunk roads, in particular, will have individual USRNs in each highway
> authority they cross as well as an overall USRN for the entire length of
> the road. There are also USRNs which form a collection of roads.
>
> Mark
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN wiki page

[Jez Nicholson]

Whilst i'm here, am I correct that a UPRN can *only* be on a single thing?
So anything in
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/?key=ref%3AGB%3Auprn#values more
than once is an error?

...or can a road have a USRN *and* a UPRN?

On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 1:48 PM Jez Nicholson 
wrote:

> Well-spotted. I've updated it to, "UPRNs provide every property or object
> with a consistent, persistent, numerical identifier (often between 8 and 12
> digits, but not restricted to 12)".
>
> I know that you've been looking at UPRNs, so please add to the wiki page
> or discussions.
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 1:00 PM Mark Goodge  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 17/11/2020 11:34, Jez Nicholson wrote:
>> > Following the fine efforts of a number of people to get ref:GB:uprn
>> > through the tag proposal process I have created
>> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ref:GB:uprn
>> > <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ref:GB:uprn>
>> >
>> > Please add information to it, or discussions.
>>
>> One minor point on that. UPRNs aren't necessarily 12 digits. They're an
>> unsigned integer of (currently) up to 12 digits. UPRNs of 999
>> and below aren't zero-padded. They do, in fact, go all the way down to
>> UPRN 1.
>>
>> Mark
>>
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Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN wiki page

[Jez Nicholson]

Well-spotted. I've updated it to, "UPRNs provide every property or object
with a consistent, persistent, numerical identifier (often between 8 and 12
digits, but not restricted to 12)".

I know that you've been looking at UPRNs, so please add to the wiki page or
discussions.

On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 1:00 PM Mark Goodge  wrote:

>
>
> On 17/11/2020 11:34, Jez Nicholson wrote:
> > Following the fine efforts of a number of people to get ref:GB:uprn
> > through the tag proposal process I have created
> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ref:GB:uprn
> > <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ref:GB:uprn>
> >
> > Please add information to it, or discussions.
>
> One minor point on that. UPRNs aren't necessarily 12 digits. They're an
> unsigned integer of (currently) up to 12 digits. UPRNs of 999
> and below aren't zero-padded. They do, in fact, go all the way down to
> UPRN 1.
>
> Mark
>
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[Talk-GB] UPRN wiki page

[Jez Nicholson]

Following the fine efforts of a number of people to get ref:GB:uprn through
the tag proposal process I have created
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ref:GB:uprn

Please add information to it, or discussions.

USRN to follow

- Jez
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Re: [Talk-GB] Lorries can't limbo

[Jez Nicholson]

Added to the Quarterly Project list
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:UK_Quarterly_Project#Bridge_Heights

On Thu, Nov 12, 2020 at 11:56 PM Neil Matthews <
ndmatth...@ndmatthews.plus.com> wrote:

>
> https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/network-rail-reveals-most-bashed-bridge-in-britain-09-11-2020/
>
> Saw this and thought it might suit a small virtual project - to
> check/add bridge heights from mapillary images or similar might be useful.
>
> And maybe network rail have a longer list / more info?
>
> Cheers,
> Neil
>
>
>
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[Talk-GB] Geo Hack Weekend 28-29 Nov

[Jez Nicholson]

In a couple of weeks time the Code The City group from Aberdeen are holding
an online hack weekend with particular focus on OpenStreetMap
https://codethecity.org/what-we-do/hack-weekends/code-the-city-21-put-your-city-on-the-map/

It's an old-fashioned, low-pressure, friendly, do-what-you-like hack
weekend. If you like to build things, or try out a bit of software, or want
to survey something different, or help someone out, then do come
alongthere are no rules, you don't even have to build software, it's a
great excuse to do *anything* new. Bonus points (notional, not actual) for
anything in Aberdeen.

I am helping to provide a list of potential resources and some project
ideas (links are in that web page about the event). Send me any suggestions.
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Re: [Talk-GB] Multi-lingual tagging in Wales

[Jez Nicholson]

I'm open to alternatives for dispute regulation. I fear that Wales *is* a
location where feelings run high.

See also https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_exonyms including the
Welsh-English argument in the Talk.

On Sat, 31 Oct 2020, 19:52 Andy Townsend,  wrote:

> On 31/10/2020 18:19, Jez Nicholson wrote:
>
> I like it.
>
> + "in the event of dispute... the default language is English."?
> .although I'm not sure how to define dispute'.
>
> On Sat, 31 Oct 2020, 11:07 Ben Proctor,  wrote:
>
> (snipped)
>
> "In the event of a dispute please discuss among a larger group and try and
> find consensus" might be better than being seen to "hard-code" a preference
> for one language or another.
>
> With a Data Working Group hat on I've seen language disputes in various
> places, and it's often made worse by someone "overinterpreting" something
> in a wiki page or elsewhere that was perfectly well-meaning but not
> designed to cover the current situation at all.   If you wanted to refer to
> the DWG directly "in the event of a dispute" that wouldn't be a problem,
> since I'd expect that the first thing that we'd try and do is to get those
> involved to talk things through in a wider forum, possibly this list or
> something more local if appropriate.
> Best Regards,
>
> Andy
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Re: [Talk-GB] Multi-lingual tagging in Wales

[Jez Nicholson]

I like it.

+ "in the event of dispute... the default language is English."?
.although I'm not sure how to define dispute'.

On Sat, 31 Oct 2020, 11:07 Ben Proctor,  wrote:

> Thanks Chris (and everyone else) for your very helpful contributions.
>
> I've tried to synthesise the discussion on this thread and would like to
> propose the following for the Wales section of the Multilingual Tagging
> page on the OSM Wiki.
>
> This would be a slight change from the current entry
>
> BEGINS/---
>
> In Wales many, but by no means all, places and features are named
> differently in Welsh and English.
>
> *Instances where the name is different in Welsh and English*
>
> The name tag should contain the name widely used by the local population.
>
> This should be either the name used in English or the name used in Welsh
> but not both.
>
> If the name included in the name: tag is that used in English, name:cy can
> be added to show the alternate name (cy is the two letter ISO639-1 language
> code for the Welsh language).
>
> If it is the name included in the name: tag is the name used in Welsh,
> name:en can be added to show the alternate name (en is the two letter
> ISO639-1 language code for the English language).
>
> Examples:
>
> name: Welshpool
> name:cy Y Trallwng
>
> name: Biwmares
> name:en Beaumaris
>
> It should not be necessary to add both name:en and name:cy though it is
> not harmful to do so.
>
> *Instances where the name is the same in Welsh and English*
>
> The name: tag should contain the name.
>
> It is not, in principle, necessary to add either a name:cy or a name:en
> (since there is only one name in both languages).
>
> However
>
> Multi-lingual tagging in Wales is currently patchy. Adding a name:cy tag
> even though this will duplicate the information in the name: tag would help
> other mappers distinguish between cases where multi-lingual tagging has not
> yet been applied and cases where the name is the same in Welsh and English.
>
> Example:
> name: Caernarfon
> name:cy Caernarfon
>
> ---/ENDS
>
>
> I *think* this largely synthesises the discussion so far. I'd welcome more
> comments on this.
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 4:40 PM Christopher Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Ben,
>>
>> Personally, I don’t see the point of
>>
>> name: Swansea
>> name:en Swansea
>> name:cy Abertawe
>>
>> It's stating the obvious that if name:cy is not the same as name: for a
>> place in Wales, the name attribute is the English, and visa versa. It’s a
>> little close to “tagging for the renderer” for my taste. That said it costs
>> little to duplicate it in practice, so rock on if that’s what you want to
>> do!
>>
>> Regarding what should be in the name tag, we have a set of flawed options…
>>
>> You initially suggested using a “widely” known by rule, this by its
>> nature favours the English names. The majority of the Welsh population are
>> primary English speakers, and despite a huge amount of time and money being
>> spent on welsh language laws and education provision that’s not about to
>> change in any of our lifetimes, even the welsh governments hugely ambitious
>> target is for 1M welsh speakers by 2050, that still less than a third of
>> the population.
>>
>> • always use the name that is used in Welsh
>>
>> In Gwynedd where 65% of the population identify as able to speak welsh,
>> this might make some sense, in Blaenau Gwent where its 7.8%, this makes no
>> sense. (Figures from the 2011 census)
>>
>> • use the Welsh name and English name together separated by a
>> hyphen (which is the practice in some other countries)
>>
>> I’m going to refer you to
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2017-August/020478.html
>> where I made my argument against this (tl;dr - its ugly, confusing and
>> there are much better ways of achieving the aim (ie localised renders))
>>
>> • use the name on local signage
>>
>> I’m going to assume you mean to use the first name on the local signage
>> because the vast majority of signage has both English and welsh names
>> (where they both exist), indeed its been a legal requirement for them to do
>> so for quite some time. The major issue with this is since the Welsh
>> Language Measure of 2011 councils have a duty to ensure "that the Welsh
>> language is treated no less favourably than the English language” this
>> ensures that on any sign made in the last 10 years Welsh is first
>> regardless of local usage.
>>
>> So we end up with the status quo….
>>
>> • use the name that is used by the "local population" (which is
>> what the wiki currently suggests)
>>
>> This too has issues, the main one being its hard to verify, it relies on
>> local mappers being able to reach a consensus.
>>
>> To me, this remains the pragmatic option!
>>
>> Thanks for reading!
>>
>> And Ben, thanks for taking on the welsh render!
>>
>> —
>> Chris - not a Welsh speaker, but ran cyOSM, the first multilingual OSM
>> render many moons ago.
>>
>>
>> > On 21 Oct 2020, 

Re: [Talk-GB] Holes in modern England?

[Jez Nicholson]

How many holes in Blackburn, Lancashire?

On Fri, 30 Oct 2020, 18:36 Martin Wynne,  wrote:

> p.s. I've now discovered an overlay slider top-right which makes a bit
> more sense.
>
> The slider is almost invisible over the map in Firefox.
>
> Martin.
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] OSM UK's first tile layer

[Jez Nicholson]

Nice one. I've been wanting to do this for ages.

Re: file size. Can JOSM and iD display Mapbox .pbf vector tiles? These
would be smaller.

On Sat, 17 Oct 2020, 00:22 Rob Nickerson,  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Just in time for the AGM, I have just published OSM UK's first tile layer.
> No don't get too excited it is not a full map render. Instead I have
> produced a very simple tiling of the Land Registry polygon data now that
> this is under the OGL Open Data Licence. My view is that this is a good
> layer to align our mapping too - i.e. when tracing from imagery we should
> first align the imagery to the Land Registry polygon layer before tracing
> from the imagery.
>
> The tile URL for JOSM is:
> tms[13,17]:http://tiles.osmuk.org/LRpolygons/{zoom}/{x}/{y}.png
>
> And for now this is *York only* as an example.
>
> Feedback that I would appreciate:
>
>- Is this worthwhile?
>- Do you agree that it makes sense for us to all try to align our
>mapping to this (i.e. apply imagery offsets to align imagery to this before
>tracing)?
>- The style is very simple with just a 4 pixel red line. Is this
>sufficient? What changes can be made?
>- Any tips on how to keep the PNG file sizes as small as possible? For
>now I am using the Mapnik rule "png8:c=2:t=1:m=o". Is there anything that
>can yield smaller file sizes?
>- What max zoom is worthwhile? Currently it goes to 17, is this enough?
>
> Our plan would be to pre-render all the tiles and host them on our site.
> The data doesn't change much so we would only re-render on request or once
> a year. My estimate is that we'd need 35GB for tiles to zoom level 17, and
> 133 GB to get everything to zoom 18. Our current server is on the small
> side with just 512MB memory and a 100GB disk allowance. It is unsuitable
> for on the fly rendering and we'd need more disk space to get the level 18
> zoom. A beefier server is of course possible but any bump in specs comes
> with an equal bump in costs so worth checking this is worthwhile before
> proceeding.
>
> P.S. The Land Registry themselves host this data on a WMS service rather
> than a TMS (tile) service. This makes it possible to zoom much further in.
> If you want to have a look at that detail you can use their website or
> (temporarily) use the following URL in JOSM. Please don't use this for
> mapping as we don't have permission to use their WMS service
>
> wms:
> http://inspire.landregistry.gov.uk/inspire/ows?SERVICE=WMS=image%2Fpng=inspire%3ACP.CadastralParcel=image%2Fpng=true=1.1.1=GetMap=_FORMAT=application%2Fvnd.ogc.gml=XML&_OLSALT=0.789927776902914={proj}={bbox}={width}={height}
> 
>
> Best regards,
> *Rob*
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Re: [Talk-GB] Mapping a building that's two connected separate buildings

[Jez Nicholson]

Ah yes, a bit like when a hospital or school has a 'corridor room' (for
lack of a better term) joining two separate buildings. I'd go for three
joined buildings myself.

And that newer building has been extended a bit more hasn't it? That part I
would merge with the existing building.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 5:56 PM Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-GB <
talk-gb@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> It sounds like three connected buildings,
> but one building with three building:part
> areas also would be acceptable
>
>
> 12 paź 2020, 18:52 od m...@good-stuff.co.uk:
>
> I was looking at tidying up a few things around my local area, and came
> across this:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/52.08855/-1.94195
>
> What you can see there is a building labelled "Evesham Hotel" (which is
> correct), and, just to the south-west of it, another, unlabelled building.
>
> However, look at the aerial view (eg, via the edit feature, although
> Google Maps will do just as well), and it's clear that there is a link
> building connecting the two (something which I can confirm from local
> knowledge):
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=19/52.08855/-1.94195
>
> (There's also an unmapped extension to the bottom left building, but
> that's another matter).
>
> That's because, many years ago when the manor house was converted to a
> hotel, the owners expanded the hotel by building the link to the adjacent
> building so that it's all one building internally (more of the
> accommodation is in the bottom left building, the original manor house is
> mostly reception, function and dining rooms and associated non-public areas
> such as kitchens and offices).
>
> So, how should this be mapped? Should the entire hotel, covering both
> original buildings and the later link building, be mapped as a single
> polygon? Or should they be mapped as three adjacent, but separate,
> polygons? Is there a standard way of approaching situations like this?
>
> Mark
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Multi-lingual tagging in Wales

[Jez Nicholson]

Just being Devil's Advocatea) how do you decide on-the-ground what the
name by which the place is widely known in Wales is? i.e. is it on signage,
etc.? b) could it start an edit war if someone with strong views decided to
use one particular language for every 'name' attribute? c) are there
precedents for other countries in OSM?

On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 2:06 PM Ben Proctor  wrote:

> Hi everyone
>
> I'd like to open up the currently unresolved question of multilingual
> tagging in Wales.
>
> In the Mapio Cymru project we've been exploring Welsh language mapping
> https://openstreetmap.cymru/ and we've done some thinking about how Welsh
> and English naming works in parts of Wales. We plan to organise some
> (online) workshops in November to encourage people to add Welsh language
> tags to the map. Those workshops will initially be delivered through the
> medium of Welsh but we hope also to run some in English at a later date.
>
> The wiki entry for Wales in Multilingual Names highlights that this has
> been an area of discussion.
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names#Wales
>
> The current entry is short and so I'll reproduce it here in full.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *[starts/---]In Wales, the name tag should be used for whatever the local
> population uses.name:en and name:cy can be used to give English and Welsh
> names where such names exist but are not the name used by the local
> population. (cy is the two letter ISO639-1 language code for the Welsh
> language.)The percentage of Welsh speakers varies very significantly across
> the country and visiting mappers should be aware of local usage.*
> *[---/ends]*
>
> From a Mapio Cymru perspective we'd like to propose, for discussion,
> replacing this text with the following (reasoning follows):
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *[starts/---]In Wales the name tag should be used for the name by which
> the place is widely known in Wales. This could be English or Welsh but not
> both. So name: Wales or name: Cymru would be acceptable but not name:
> Wales/Cymru.name:en should be used to give the name by which the place or
> feature is known in English.name:cy should be used to give the name by
> which the place or feature is known in WelshEven though this will lead to
> apparent duplication. For example:name: Swanseaname:en Swanseaname:cy
> AbertaweThis allows places and features to be named unambiguously and so
> rather than duplication is conveying useful new information.*
> *[---/ends]*
>
> *Our Reasoning*
> Wales is a bilingual country and many places have different names in Welsh
> and English. Many other places have the same name in Welsh and English. It
> is not possible to infer from the Name tag whether the contents are in
> Welsh or English.
>
> We believe that the only unambiguous way to name places and features in
> Wales is to use the name:en and name:cy tags.
>
> The "name" tag does not fit the Wales context well but we recognise its
> importance within the wider OSM community. Though in some bilingual
> countries the name tag contains both versions of a name and notably in the
> Basque country this seemingly reflects the official state policy of
> designating the official name of a town as its two names delimited by a
> hyphen. We believe in the Wales context this would be better achieved by
> processing name:en and name:cy tags.
>
> We're really happy to get some feedback, questions or comments on this
> proposal. Especially highlighting things we might have missed or
> misconstrued.
>
> Cheers
>
> Ben
> --
> Mapio Cymru 
> OpenStreetMap.Cymru
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Re: [Talk-GB] Q4 2020 Quarterly Project: Defibrillators

[Jez Nicholson]

That's excellent news. I've been attending Missing Maps for the past few
months and had been hoping that we could organise some crossover activity.
Defibrillators is a clear public health benefit and should appeal to
Missing Mappers.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 9:50 AM Derry Hamilton  wrote:

> A little bit thread-drifty, but does anyone know of links to web training
> etc. that might help a bunch of people who enthusiastically joined in with
> a Missing Map event for MSF get comfortable with general purpose mapping
> like this?  I've just posted this as a follow up at work, and thus may have
> volunteered to help folk...
>
> Thanks,
> Derry (rasilon)
>
>
> On Fri, 9 Oct 2020 at 16:20, Gareth L  wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>>
>>
>> The UK quarterly project for Q4 has been selected as Defibrillators.
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_2020_Q4_Project:_Defibrillators
>>
>>
>>
>> A check on taginfo shows there are 4181 nodes and ways with
>> emergency=defibrillator in Great Britain. Reading
>> https://cesafety.co.uk/list-of-public-access-defibrillators-across-the-uk
>> from August 2019 reports that there are 5304 defibrillators in London alone.
>>
>>
>>
>> The Q3 project on cycle infrastructure has some very encouraging results,
>> which I’ll post about separately.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Gareth
>>
>>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Q4 2020 Quarterly Project: Defibrillators

[Jez Nicholson]

Thanks Robert, I added a precis of your comments onto
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_2020_Q4_Project:_Defibrillators

My first question about
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:emergency%3Ddefibrillator
tagging.my nearby defib is
https://www.theargus.co.uk/resources/images/8764699.jpg What tags should I
be capturing? phone=999 + indoors=no? access=code?

I'm guessing that many of the UK's defibrillators will be similar in style
so it would be good to publish a UK-specific model answer on the wiki page.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 8:56 AM Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) <
robert.whittaker+...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 9 Oct 2020 at 16:20, Gareth L  wrote:
> > The UK quarterly project for Q4 has been selected as Defibrillators.
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_2020_Q4_Project:_Defibrillators
> >
> > A check on taginfo shows there are 4181 nodes and ways with
> emergency=defibrillator in Great Britain. Reading
> https://cesafety.co.uk/list-of-public-access-defibrillators-across-the-uk
> from August 2019 reports that there are 5304 defibrillators in London alone.
>
> I've got the AED data from all the Ambulance Services in the UK apart
> from Northern Ireland and London in my OSM comparison tool at
> https://osm.mathmos.net/defib/progress/ . Much of the data is more
> than a year old, but given our current levels of mapping, that
> probably doesn't matter too much for now. Of the 25k AEDs in those
> Ambulance Services' data, we've currently only got about 12.4% of them
> mapped. So there's lots to do.
>
> The Ambulance Services are currently moving to a central UK-wide
> database of AEDs called "The Circuit" (see [1] and [2]), which is
> being run by the British Heart Foundation. It's not clear whether
> they're intending to publish the national set of locations, though my
> local Ambulance Service (East of England) have said they intend to
> keep publishing a list for their region.
>
> It's apparent from my tool that there are a significant number of AEDs
> that we have mapped in OSM but which aren't on the Ambulance Services'
> lists. It would be great if we could engage with the people running
> The Circuit to look into ways in which they could use OSM data to help
> them discover additional AEDs that haven't yet been registered with
> them. I doubt they would take our data on trust (I think they want to
> have contact details for the owners and regular assurances that the
> AED is being actively maintained) but it would be a good source of
> hints for them in who to contact to get the missing devices registered
> with them.
>
> Robert.
>
> [1] https://www.thecircuit.uk/
> [2]
> https://www.bhf.org.uk/how-you-can-help/how-to-save-a-life/defibrillators/ndn-the-circuit
>
> --
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>
> --
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>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Solar tagging app

[Jez Nicholson]

Nice job Russ.

Have/can you add a paragraph to the OSMWiki Renewable Energy in the United
Kingdom page please (or the solar-specific page?).

- Jez

On Mon, 5 Oct 2020, 17:46 Russ Garrett,  wrote:

> Thanks! We've got about 1000 agreed module counts now, which I'm now
> working on batching up and submitting as an edit.
>
> On Mon, 5 Oct 2020 at 17:13, Gregory Williams
>  wrote:
> > - A "Are you sure that's a PV system?" option -- I've seen perhaps a
> > couple where I'm not sure whether it's actually a PV system. Perhaps a
> > check from another imagery source, or a ground survey, could clear
> > things up?
>
> I was originally planning to add multiple "skip" options but I decided
> to keep it simple. I have the data on which generators are being
> consistently skipped though, so we can potentially go through those
> later to try and find nonexistent/mistagged things.
>
> > - Click twice to measure the orientation (although perhaps more suited
> > to using on a computer, rather than a mobile / tablet?)
>
> Orientation is next on my list when I get a moment (probably not
> imminently). It'll likely be a separate task from the module-counting
> one. Location is also another task which I could potentially add.
>
> Russ
>
>
> --
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> r...@garrett.co.uk
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Blocked / overgrown / inaccessible footpaths and bridleways

[Jez Nicholson]

My first thought was barrier=yes or some other form of barrier=* to tell
routers.

Another tag might be https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:obstacle

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 1:52 PM Andy Townsend  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> How do people normally map things like "I know there is a public
> footpath that goes through here but it is currently inaccessible"?
>
> A taginfo search finds a few candidates:
>
> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/search?q=overgrown#values
>
> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/search?q=inaccessible#values
>
> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/search?q=blocked#values
>
> So far https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/overgrown seems the
> nearest (it's undocumented but mentioned on
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Hiking ).  However, I'm sure that
> there are examples that I've missed.  Most seem to be used within note
> tags which can of course contain any old text - are there any actual
> non-note tags and values that are used for this that I'm missing?
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Listed status / scheduled monument

[Jez Nicholson]

I believe that the Listed Buildings refs are fairly old. The whole thing
might warrant a revisit, and perhaps a Quarterly Project?

I would be happy for a new-style ref:GB:he (or similar) and an automated
edit. After discussion obviously.

On Sat, 26 Sep 2020, 20:57 Dave Dunford,  wrote:

> The most logical and consistent scheme would seem to me to be - contrary
> to Key:listed_status
>  and
> established consensus:
>
> <*heritage*_status=Scheduled Monument> (which would also work for
> , etc.)
>  (in line with other numeric referencing systems; my
> understanding is that HE don't use any other number systems, though you
> sometimes see their pre-NHLE numbers quoted, which could be tagged
> appropriately)
>
>  feels internally contradictory.
>  is inconsistent with other referencing schemes.
>
> But it's an awfully well-established consensus...
>
> Incidentally, some structures are both Listed Buildings and Scheduled
> Monuments (notably crosses and bridges, in my experience), or you get
> Listed Buildings (defined by HE as a single point) within scheduled
> monuments (defined by HE as an area). Yours is a case in point: the Priory
> building is a Grade I listed building (
> https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1062210) and
> the Priory Farmhouse is Grade II (
> https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1360390) and
> both are within the area defined as a scheduled monument.
>
> Third observation - whatever we do, we should t call them "Scheduled
> Monuments" as HE do, rather than the dated "Scheduled Ancient Monuments"
> (quite a lot of them - e.g. Victorian lead mines in my part of the world -
> aren't that ancient).
>
> Dave 
>
> On 26/09/2020 13:43, Edward Bainton wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> I'd like to map St Leonard's Priory, Stamford, Lincs:
> https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1007690
>
> This is a 'scheduled monument'.
>
>1. The wiki is a bit inconsistent on *how to tag* this.
>   1. Key:listed_status
>   
>   suggests I should tag it .
>   2. The table at Key:HE_ref
>    would suggest that
>   may not be the right tag, as  is only given for listed
>   buildings - a different legal category.
>   3. I've found plenty of the former in the map, so I'm assuming
>   that's correct and the table at HE_ref needs amplifying
>
>   2. I've also got a puzzle about *how to give the ref. number*.
>   1. Key:listed_status
>    invites
>   me to use .
>   2. Key:heritage
>    invites
>   me to use 
>
>   I've tried using overpass-turbo to get relative frequencies of
>   those two tags. I get the following (for most but not all of England, so
>   ymmv: north of ~Barnard Castle not in my bounding box, but that wasn't a
>   political decision...).
>
>   I can't interpret it fully, but it looks like ref:he may be worth
>   deleting from the wiki as obsolete?
>
>   *HE_ref=**
>   Loaded – nodes: 46397, ways: 5541, relations: 124
>   Displayed – pois: 591, lines: 634, polygons: 4770
>
>   *ref:he=**
>   Loaded – nodes: 2274, ways: 176, relations: 1
>   Displayed – pois: 31, lines: 10, polygons: 166
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
> Edward / eteb3
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Bude-Light in Trafalgar Square

[Jez Nicholson]

Niche, but interesting. A nice break from tagging list discussions.

On Sat, 22 Aug 2020, 18:58 Andy Mabbett,  wrote:

> Update: there are four; they have been identified and mapped; and
> details added to the Wikipedia article I mentioned.
>
> On Sat, 22 Aug 2020 at 12:22, Andy Mabbett 
> wrote:
> >
> > Various sources refer to a replica Bude-Light [1] in Trafalgar Square,
> > London. however, a Google image search [2] finds pictures of lamps of
> > two different designs; one is on a narrow metal column [3], the other
> > a broad stone column [4].
> >
> > We don't seem to have anything mapped, other than the two examples
> > given, which I have just added.
> >
> > How many Bude-Lights are there in Trafalgar Square? Where ''exactly''
> > is it/are they?
> >
> > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bude-Light
> >
> > [2] https://www.google.com/search?q=Bude+Light+trafalgar+square=isch
> >
> > [3] example: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2307121977
> >
> > [4] example: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/7834612494
> >
> > --
> > Andy Mabbett
> > @pigsonthewing
> > http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
>
>
> --
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> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Proposal: Import EV charging point data

[Jez Nicholson]

Hi Steven,

Nice work getting hold of SourceLondon, and for getting it on the wiki.

It is possible that the initial data from SourceLondon is licence tainted
as they manually created the points by using Google Maps. This would block
a straight import, but might allow for a conflation exercise.

Regards,
 Jez

On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 11:19 AM David Woolley 
wrote:

> On 18/08/2020 00:11, Steven Hirschorn wrote:
> > I'm hoping to import a dataset of EV vehicle charging points in London.
> > I've created a wiki page here:
> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/SourceLondon
> >
>
> There was a lot of discussion about importing EV charging station data
> recently, so the first thing you should do is go through the list archives.
>
> Also, note that you need the agreement of the community before you start
> any import.
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] OSMUK Instagram ideas

[Jez Nicholson]

Thanks for the ideas.

Today's post is about Missing Maps London on Tues 1 September
https://www.instagram.com/p/CDtkiAFH-sS/ which I attended last week. I've
been going to see what goes on. Gave me a chance to try out the new RapiD
editor.

I forgot to say that I want to be able to post once-a-day.

I haven't considered replicating somewhere 'open' yet. Insta has a big
reach, but I see that Pixelfed is a similar concept.


On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 2:42 PM Robert Skedgell  wrote:

> On 09/08/2020 14:31, Jez Nicholson wrote:
> > I've been posting to the OSMUK
> > Instagram https://www.instagram.com/openstreetmapuk/ account recently.
> > We are currently focusing on potential new mappers, so i'm thinking
> > quirky and topical.
> >
> > So,
> >
> > a) Do you know of an interesting looking feature in the UK?
> >
> > b) Do you know of something topical (and visual)?
> >
> > c) After this thread has finished, how best could/would you get in
> > contact to tell me? Twitter? A thread on Loomio? Here?
> >
> > Regards,
> >   Jez
> >
>
> Some of the COVID-19 related highway changes, e.g. modal filters
> implemented with planters might be worth including. There's an obvious
> visual and routing impact in real life, as rendered by OSM Carto and for
> routing engines.
>
> --
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>
>
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[Talk-GB] OSMUK Instagram ideas

[Jez Nicholson]

I've been posting to the OSMUK Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/openstreetmapuk/ account recently. We are
currently focusing on potential new mappers, so i'm thinking quirky and
topical.

So,

a) Do you know of an interesting looking feature in the UK?

b) Do you know of something topical (and visual)?

c) After this thread has finished, how best could/would you get in contact
to tell me? Twitter? A thread on Loomio? Here?

Regards,
  Jez
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Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

[Jez Nicholson]

My initial thought was also "conspiracy!". Licence problem is more likely,
or perhaps they were concerned that someone might poll the URL with every
available UPRN.

On Sun, 2 Aug 2020, 11:38 Nick,  wrote:

> I have no problem with licencing but the UPRN and related data is
> managed by Authority custodians - do they not retain ownership of that
> data?
>
> If the authorities sell it to OS, then should this be raised with The Rt
> Hon Alok Sharma MP (he owns 100% of the shares of OS)?
>
> N.B. there are some aspects to address data that is subject to other IP
> rights but the remainder. is surely of public interest and value.
>
> On 02/08/2020 10:34, Russ Garrett wrote:
> > On Sun, 2 Aug 2020 at 10:20, Andy Mabbett 
> wrote:
> >> Do you have a plausible hypothesis to explain the removal of UPRNs
> >> from the flood warning pages, that also gives us a reason to trust the
> >> organisation that enacted that change?
> > It's almost certainly because some lawyer or other spotted that it's a
> > violation of the PSGA (formerly PSMA) license under which the
> > AddressBase data is made available to the Environment Agency.
> >
> >
> https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/documents/licensing/psga-member-licence.pdf
> >
> > There's no conspiracy here beyond OS zealously protecting its data, as
> > it always has done.
> >
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Electric vehicle charging points

[Jez Nicholson]

Collating and conflating is one thing, but we really need to encourage
custom data apps like https://www.zap-map.com/ to use OSM as an active
database which they feed back to. This will only happen when private
companies realise that long term value is not in the data itself (because
other people can collect it too) but in the extra deep knowledge gained in
curating it, and from services on top of the raw data.


On Tue, 21 Jul 2020, 23:12 Nick,  wrote:

> Could the data be included in https://osm.mathmos.net/survey/ ?
> On 21/07/2020 22:42, Colin Smale wrote:
>
> On 2020-07-21 22:54, Mark Goodge wrote:
>
> It's the errors which are more of a problem, because it's generally better
> not to map something than to map it wrongly.
>
> This is a difficult point. Data is never 100% complete, and frequently not
> 100% accurate. At what point it becomes better not to have the thing in OSM
> at all, is rather subjective.
>
> If the location was only accurate to ±50m, would it still be good enough?
> If the operator was not tagged, would it still be good enough?
>
> Is an "imperfect" object in OSM more likely to get corrected than a
> missing object is to get added? Should I not add a missing object because I
> cannot be sure of the "operator" for example? Talking about the charging
> points data set, how can one detect what is an error?
>
> I would say, get the data out there, and let the world feed back any
> inaccuracies to the source for inclusion in the next version.
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Electric vehicle charging points

[Jez Nicholson]

My Council has introduced 200+ lamp post mounted charging points
https://www.instagram.com/p/B_Fm7L8nOL8/

Would you give that its own node? or as part of Tag:highway=street_lamp?

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 1:13 PM Dave F via Talk-GB <
talk-gb@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> On 21/07/2020 12:10, Chris Hill wrote:
> > Leccy car drivers need to know if the point is working. Apps from the
> > charge point suppliers and from others such as Zapmap try to keep
> > drivers informed about the availability and condition of the point.
> > OSM doesn't have that info and can't update it in real time. Some
> > leccy cars have this live info built into their satnav.
> >
> > There's nothing wrong with adding charging points. I expect people
> > wanting to actually use them will look elsewhere for more info than
> > OSM can reasonably supply.
>
> That's a moot point.
> That's the equivalent of saying drivers needs to know if a car park is
> full or a commuter wants to find out if the 08:12 to Oxford has been
> cancelled.
>
> DaveF
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Local Wildlife Sites

[Jez Nicholson]

ooo! nice detail.

The 'Local Wildlife Sites' seem to be more wide-ranging than the Wildlife
Trust's own sites, they appear to be 'important' green areas throughout the
area.
https://data.gov.uk/search?q=Local+Wildlife+Sites%5Bpublisher%5D=%5Btopic%5D=%5Bformat%5D==best
lists
a number of areas. They may be a synonym for SINCS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Site_of_Nature_Conservation_Interest

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 5:03 PM Chris Hill  wrote:

>
> On 20/07/2020 15:52, Jez Nicholson wrote:
> > Does anyone have any experience with
> > https://www.wildlifetrusts.org/local-wildlife-sites ?
> >
> > I've had an inquiry about including Brighton & Hove LWSes on OSM.
> >
> >
> I am a member of Yorkshire Wildlife Trust so I had a conversation with
> them about their reserves a few years ago. They sent me some data. It
> was entirely based on OS data, so I couldn't use any of it in OSM. I
> surveyed North Cave wetlands, a large reserve close to me. You can see
> my efforts here https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/53.7846/-0.6634
> Most of the names are from my own knowledge.
>
> I think each trust is independent, with a loose affiliation to the
> national group.
>
> I've added one or two smaller reserves in outline that I have visites
> with a few lakes and woods as you would expect. It can sometimes be hard
> to know the extent of a reserve just from aerial imagery and surveys can
> be awkward because the sites usually want people to stay on paths to
> avoid wildlife disturbance.
>
> --
> cheers
> Chris Hill (chillly)
>
>
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[Talk-GB] Local Wildlife Sites

[Jez Nicholson]

Does anyone have any experience with
https://www.wildlifetrusts.org/local-wildlife-sites ?

I've had an inquiry about including Brighton & Hove LWSes on OSM.

- Jez
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[Talk-GB] the first OSMUK microgrant

[Jez Nicholson]

You may be aware that OSMUK launched a microgrant scheme The first
awardee, Alex at Bexhill-OSM, has received a grant part-funding the
purchase of a camera for street level photography. Alex's dedication
building https://bexhill-osm.org.uk/ is no secret. This combined with being
able to monitor progress via Mapillary plus being able to do local OSM
outreach introducing local history groups to mapping through photography
ticked many boxes.

He's even got an eco-friendly electric scooter...
https://www.instagram.com/p/CCtBA-9HnBC/

- Jez
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Re: [Talk-GB] The curious case of USRN 20602512

[Jez Nicholson]

Whilst we are on USRNs (and UPRNs), I have updated
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Ordnance_Survey_OpenData to include
them. The whole discussion on how they join up could merit a wiki section
or page of its own...somewhere to collect together all the snippets of
information.just a gentle reminder that if we don't document stuff then
it disappears into the ether. Sure, it's on Talk-GB archive, but it's still
just talk.

On Wed, 15 Jul 2020, 11:06 Mark Goodge,  wrote:

>
>
> On 15/07/2020 09:05, Phillip Barnett wrote:
> > Could you not just ask the local mapper to knock on any doors in the
> > street and ASK them the name? And then use that local knowledge?
>
> In this case, there are no doors on the street as it's just an access road!
>
> What might work would be to contact a local councillor, say, and ask
> them for the name of the street. Their local knowledge can then be used
> in OSM.
>
> If you wanted to pursue the FOI route, another option would be to ask
> for documentation from the time when the road was named, showing the
> decisions made. It would probably date from the time when the entire
> estate was built. But the council may no longer have those records, as
> it is some time ago.
>
> Mark
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Mapping of Dover Harbour Board

[Jez Nicholson]

Thanks Frederik,

Looking on the positive side, it's nice to know that people out there want
our maps.

Regards,
   Jez

On Mon, 13 Jul 2020, 20:56 Frederik Ramm,  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> the DWG has received the following message:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > A bit of feedback.
> > The openstreet map of Dover Harbour-UK has now become quite out of date.
> > Just wondering when it will receive an update after all the works done
> over the past 2 years with the Western Docks revival project and the new
> marina, quayside changes etc.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > (Name removed by F.R.)
>
> I'll reply that OSM is what its mappers make of it, and an invitation to
> contribute - but if anyone is familiar with the topic, perhaps this is
> an incentive to work on it.
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
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Re: [Talk-GB] Colouring London?

[Jez Nicholson]

Fairly well known.

When it launched last year I had thought that the use of OS MasterMap
buildings had blown the openness of the generated data, but they claim on
the site that it doesn't.

On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 10:14 AM Neil Matthews <
ndmatth...@ndmatthews.plus.com> wrote:

> Is https://colouring.london/ well known? Just stumbled onto it from an
> overly general web search.
>
> Looks like it would be a great fit for OSM -- but seems to be using
> Ordnance Survey?
>
> Cheers,
> Neil
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

[Jez Nicholson]

Sorry, i mean 'findmyaddress'.

Also, from this Twitter thread
https://twitter.com/jnicho02/status/1279821108783579139?s=20 I note that
some streets have a UPRN. Existing services filter them out.

On Mon, 6 Jul 2020, 12:29 Jez Nicholson,  wrote:

> Do you mean that you looked up the UPRN on findmystreet and it's
> supposedly in a different location to the latlon in the file?
>
> On Mon, 6 Jul 2020, 12:26 Nick,  wrote:
>
>> So I have just started with my crude system and already found one UPRN
>> that looks as if it is in the wrong location (wrong postcode 6BT > 6ST ~
>> and wrong county). If I am correct, then this demonstrates the value of
>> opening up data to more 'eyes'. Not sure how we could collate all lists
>> of anomalies to demonstrate this to government.
>>
>> On 06/07/2020 12:09, Nick wrote:
>> > I went for the crude approach as my computer is not that powerful, so
>> > I split the CSV into chunks and imported batches into QGIS with
>> > county/postcode boundaries as my interest is trying to understand how
>> > the UPRNs have been batched. Not elegant but means that I now can
>> > focus on our area and identify those UPRNs that are most useful to me
>> > for plotting missing rural properties. I can then write a script to
>> > only give me those UPRNs of interest. As I say, crude but useful to me
>> > as I can now start to match addresses to UPRN when I add properties.
>> >
>> > On 05/07/2020 20:56, Kai Michael Poppe - OSM wrote:
>> >> On 05.07.2020 18:45, Kai Michael Poppe - OSM wrote:
>> >>> On 05.07.2020 17:51, Andy Mabbett wrote:
>> >>>> Naive question - can that be added as a layer in JOSM? If so, how?
>> >>> I'll have to check whether I can manage that anyway with the new
>> server
>> >>> now. Will come back to this.
>> >> Meh. 3 hours in, every possible lead I had didn't bring me closer to
>> >> setting up the UPRN data in the same way.
>> >>
>> >> Having 6 GiB of GeoPackage or 2 GiB of MySQL data doesn't make working
>> >> with the data any easier.
>> >>
>> >> I will look out for help from the GeoServer people during the week,
>> >> watch this space :)
>> >>
>> >> K
>> >>
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Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

[Jez Nicholson]

Do you mean that you looked up the UPRN on findmystreet and it's supposedly
in a different location to the latlon in the file?

On Mon, 6 Jul 2020, 12:26 Nick,  wrote:

> So I have just started with my crude system and already found one UPRN
> that looks as if it is in the wrong location (wrong postcode 6BT > 6ST ~
> and wrong county). If I am correct, then this demonstrates the value of
> opening up data to more 'eyes'. Not sure how we could collate all lists
> of anomalies to demonstrate this to government.
>
> On 06/07/2020 12:09, Nick wrote:
> > I went for the crude approach as my computer is not that powerful, so
> > I split the CSV into chunks and imported batches into QGIS with
> > county/postcode boundaries as my interest is trying to understand how
> > the UPRNs have been batched. Not elegant but means that I now can
> > focus on our area and identify those UPRNs that are most useful to me
> > for plotting missing rural properties. I can then write a script to
> > only give me those UPRNs of interest. As I say, crude but useful to me
> > as I can now start to match addresses to UPRN when I add properties.
> >
> > On 05/07/2020 20:56, Kai Michael Poppe - OSM wrote:
> >> On 05.07.2020 18:45, Kai Michael Poppe - OSM wrote:
> >>> On 05.07.2020 17:51, Andy Mabbett wrote:
>  Naive question - can that be added as a layer in JOSM? If so, how?
> >>> I'll have to check whether I can manage that anyway with the new server
> >>> now. Will come back to this.
> >> Meh. 3 hours in, every possible lead I had didn't bring me closer to
> >> setting up the UPRN data in the same way.
> >>
> >> Having 6 GiB of GeoPackage or 2 GiB of MySQL data doesn't make working
> >> with the data any easier.
> >>
> >> I will look out for help from the GeoServer people during the week,
> >> watch this space :)
> >>
> >> K
> >>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Maps on BBC Radio 4

[Jez Nicholson]

I've talked before about OSMUK having a role as an industry 'lobby group',
ie being the business-accessible face of OSM in the UKmaybe we should
be pushing this further with the media and with government?

On Sun, 5 Jul 2020, 11:52 BD,  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> BBC Radio 4
> Seriously…  - Mapping the
> Future
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p08jpmk7
>
> I meant to come back to this last week but didn't have a chance. Now after
> listening I wonder, did I hear about OSM in this program? Is BBC actually
> aware of OSM at all?!
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

[Jez Nicholson]

>From Wikidata, https://m.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P8399 if you query the
UK Flood service with the UPRN you can see more detail on the property

On Sat, 4 Jul 2020, 08:52 Stephen Colebourne,  wrote:

> I'm not convinced this data should be pulled into OSM. It would add a lot
> of clutter that users would be tempted to move around or delete. In areas
> like mine where I've added thousands of buildings and addresses from
> surveys, it would be making matters worse not better. It would be a
> disincentive to adding more buildings with addresses as the additional
> nodes would get in the way of editing, and because they represent a semi
> random set of things. Because the dataset is fixed I would think it should
> be a layer used alongside OSM by those tools that think it adds value.
> Ideally, OSM itself should support layers, but AFAIK it doesn't.
> Stephen
> PS. Thanks for the slippy map!
>
> On Thu, 2 Jul 2020, 17:38 Robert Whittaker (OSM lists), <
> robert.whittaker+...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm not completely sure if/how we can best make use of the new OS
>> OpenData (UPRNs, USRNs and related links) in OpenStreetMap, but as a
>> first step I've set up a quick slippy map with the UPRN locations
>> shown:
>>
>> https://osm.mathmos.net/addresses/uprn/ (zoom in to level 16 to show the
>> data)
>>
>> The UPRN dataset literally just contains the UPRN number and its
>> coordinates (both OS National Grid and WGS lat/lon). There are some
>> additional linking datasets that link these ids to other ids (e.g.
>> USRNs, TOIDs). But no address information is available directly. (You
>> may be able to get street names by matching to OS Open Roads via TOIDs
>> though. Coupled with Code-Point Open, you might be able to assign
>> quite a few postcodes in cases where there's only one unit for a whole
>> street.)
>>
>> The UPRN data has already helped me find a mapping error I made
>> locally though -- it looks like I'd accidentally missed drawing a
>> house outline from aerial imagery, and also classified a large garage
>> a few doors down as a house. The two errors cancelled out when the
>> houses were numbered sequentially, so I didn't notice until now. Today
>> though I spotted a UPRN marker over some blank space on the map, and
>> no marker over the mapped house that's probably a garage.
>>
>> Now a few initial thoughts on the data that I've explored so far:
>>
>> I believe that the UPRNs are assigned by local authorities, so
>> conventions may vary from place to place. I don't know who actually
>> assigns the coordinates (authority or OS). Looking at those for rows
>> of houses around me, they don't seem to have been automatically given
>> coordinates from the house footprint, it looks more like someone
>> manually clicking on a map.
>>
>> The UPRN dataset should include all addressable properties. It is also
>> ahead of reality in some places, as it includes locations for houses
>> on a new development near me that have yet to be built yet. For blocks
>> of apartments/flats, the UPRN nodes may all have the same coordinates
>> or may be displaced from each other, possibly in an artificial manner.
>>
>> Other objects also appear to have UPRNs. Likely things I've noticed so
>> far include: car parks, post boxes, telephone boxes (even after
>> they've been removed), electricity sub-stations, roads and recorded
>> footpaths (the UPRN locations seem to be at one end of the street, so
>> usually lie at a junction), recreation grounds / play areas,
>> floodlight poles (around sports pitches), and allotments. There's no
>> information about the object type in the UPRN data unfortunately.
>>
>> Anyway, I hope some of this is useful / interesting. I hope to be on
>> the OSMUK call on Saturday to discuss things further. Best wishes,
>>
>> Robert.
>>
>> --
>> Robert Whittaker
>> https://osm.mathmos.net/
>>
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Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN & USRN Tagging

[Jez Nicholson]

I believe that the French have been using the country namespace in ref
codes recently and, although I was initially doubtful, I now see the value
in not claiming a reference code for the entire world. Some examples in
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/France/Liste_des_r%C3%A9f%C3%A9rences_nationales

Sure, USRNs must have already been added a while back from the UK National
Address Gazetteer or something, but that doesn't make ref:usrn right and
fair to other countries that may have a different meaning for the acronym.

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 6:43 PM Nick  wrote:

> Hi Mike
>
> I tend to agree in terms of consistency. Looking at the results for
> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=usrn - the key 'ref:usrn'
> dominates so to me makes sense to use 'key:uprn'. Searching on UPRN
> reveals the lack of clarity.
>
> Cheers
>
> Nick
>
> On 03/07/2020 17:47, Mike Baggaley wrote:
> > I note that ref:usrn was added to the Key:ref wiki in May 2017 and I can
> see no real reason to add GB into the key, especially if it is upper case.
> There are lots of examples of other country specific tags which do not
> include a country code on that page, in fact I can't see a single one that
> does include a country code.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Mike
> >
> >> Agree with ref:GB:uprn and ref:GB:usrn.
> >
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Re: [Talk-GB] positioning of shop nodes as entrances

[Jez Nicholson]

Thanks for all the responses. It sounds like we all think in a similar way
re: shop nodes/areas. Perhaps the style of "entrances as shop nodes" comes
from another region? My biggest fear is that the mapper is using a main
street in Brighton as a testbed.

On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 7:50 PM Ken Kilfedder 
wrote:

> I'm partial to tagging the shop/cafe as an area within the building.   In
> a highstreet scenario, you might have a 3 storey terrace containing mostly
> flats, with cafes and Argos's on the ground floor.   Very well, tag
> buildings as buildings, and tag the amenities as areas (likely most of the
> floorplan, except residential doors leading upstairs), and tag the doors as
> entrances.
>
> Tagging the amenities as points within the building outline is certainly
> better than adding them to the doors, though.  I'd call that plain wrong.
>
> I've done it that way for 43 to 79 West Ham Lane E15, for example -
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.53920/0.00438
>
> ---
> https://hdyc.neis-one.org/?spiregrain
> spiregrain_...@ksglp.org.uk
>
> On Tue, 30 Jun 2020, at 4:53 PM, Cj Malone wrote:
> > >Personally, I don't like tagging the whole building as 'amenity=cafe'
> as it
> > >is only the downstairs of the building being used for that purpose,
> which
> > >is why they were nodes.
> >
> > I agree, it also means that shops on buildings sometimes have `level`,
> > which doesn't makes sense.
> >
> > >So, is there any downside to marking the entrance? I can see that it
> links
> > >the cafe node to the building better.
> >
> > One down side I can think of is that people might deleted the old node,
> > and make a new one, and copy the tags across. Losing the history isn't
> > ideal, but it's not really an argument against.
> >
> > Also is there a way to link entrances to a poi as a node? In the
> > example below Boots has 2 entrances. Could they both be linked to the
> > pharmacy?
> >
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/336202468#map=19/50.70033/-1.29443
> >
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[Talk-GB] positioning of shop nodes as entrances

[Jez Nicholson]

I notice that a number of my local shop's POI nodes have been relocated as
entrances, e.g. https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2648378395 rather
than them being a node within the building outline.

Personally, I don't like tagging the whole building as 'amenity=cafe' as it
is only the downstairs of the building being used for that purpose, which
is why they were nodes.

So, is there any downside to marking the entrance? I can see that it links
the cafe node to the building better.
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Re: [Talk-GB] Land Registry INSPIRE data - 1 July OGL release

[Jez Nicholson]

There is also a wiki pages about
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Property_extents_in_the_United_Kingdom
 and https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Ordnance_Survey_OpenData that need
updating.

On Sat, Jun 27, 2020 at 12:41 PM Rob Nickerson 
wrote:

> Sounds like a good idea. Do you (or anyone else) have time to arrange this?
>
> As for initial ideas these inspire polygons could be useful as a source to
> check alignment, split terraced buildings into the correct number of parts
> prior to surveying the house numbers, and look for potential missing urban
> paths/shortcuts. That's a few that came to me initially but I'm sure there
> are many more.
>
> Best regards
> Rob
>
> On Sat, 27 Jun 2020, 09:50 Andrew Hain, 
> wrote:
>
>> A lightning talk could get some attention, including mappers with
>> experience of datasets elsewhere in the world.
>>
>> --
>> Andrew
>> --
>> *From:* Rob Nickerson 
>> *Sent:* 26 June 2020 20:49
>> *To:* Talk-GB 
>> *Subject:* [Talk-GB] Land Registry INSPIRE data - 1 July OGL release
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Looks like 1 July will be a big open data release day. Not only do we get
>> the USRN and UPRN data, but the land registry data will also be released:
>>
>>
>> https://www.gov.uk/government/news/inspire-data-to-be-shared-under-open-terms
>>
>> Should we attempt to coordinate something to prevent a mixture of uses
>> across those OSMers who may want to do something with this date?
>>
>> Best regards
>> Rob
>>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Documenting tagging practice for place nodes in London

[Jez Nicholson]

I take it that these names are used by Nominatim to assist with search. I
know it's another form of tagging-for-the-renderer, but do you know
how/whether changes affect it?

On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 10:31 PM Russ Garrett  wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> By way of lockdown procrastination, I started looking at place nodes
> in London. The main things which were annoying me are:
>
> * The presence of a few archaic place names which were presumably
> derived from NPE or other historic maps but are generally out of use
> now.
> * A surprisingly large number of place names present in OS StreetView
> are unmapped on OSM.
> * Most places in London are tagged as place=suburb, regardless of
> their size/importance. This issue especially is annoying me quite a
> lot now I've started noticing it.
>
> I started demoting some place=suburbs to place=quarter, and promoting
> one or two of them to place=town (as this seems to be almost
> universally used as the next level up from suburb in London), when it
> was pointed out that it's probably worth discussing this.
>
> These place tags are quite subjective, especially because they
> frequently get used for reasons which don't really tie in with their
> name, and wiki is pretty vague about their definition, so I don't
> think we can avoid some level of tagging for the renderer here.
>
> I think it would be useful to document which of these tags we want to
> use in London, and ideally some kind of heuristic for where to use
> them.
>
> I've generated a list of all place nodes within Greater London and the
> City, by type:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Ru/London_Place_Nodes
>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> Russ Garrett
> r...@garrett.co.uk
>
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[Talk-GB] SoTM 2020 Online Lightning Talks

[Jez Nicholson]

With this year's State of the Map conference going online there is more
opportunity to get involved than usual.

One thing is the
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_of_the_Map_2020/registration_lightning_talks
Lightning Talks. Anyone can submit a 5-min video and 15 will be featured in
the conference programme. Deadline 28 June.
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Re: [Talk-GB] Q2 2020 Quarterly project GP Surgeries and health sites

[Jez Nicholson]

I'm sort of pleased that the ENS has at least listened to the UK mappers,
who used both pharmacy and chemist, and not imposed their own views.

Just as a supermarket can have a pharmacy in it, Boots chemist stores have
a separate pharmacy counter. So could/should they have their own node? This
would hook in to the FHRS where I think there can be separate records for
the main store and the pharmacy counter.

On Mon, 25 May 2020, 19:42 Cj Malone via Talk-GB, 
wrote:

> I think a lot of the confusion comes from the name suggestion index (some
> of the presets for iD) listing Boots twice. However basically all (if not
> all) of Boots in the UK are pharmacies, because they do prescriptions. In
> some regions this is not the case, Boots without prescriptions is a chemist.
>
> In the UK it's more obvious using Superdrug as an example, some stores do
> prescriptions, some don't. If Superdrug does prescriptions it may be
> amenity=pharmacy or it may have a separate node for the pharmacy, with
> different contract details and opening times, but I don't think this is
> usually worth it for small shops.
>
> Supermarkets on the other hand, I would have there pharmacies as separate
> nodes, partly for the above, different details. But also because the
> location inside the store can be massively helpful for people who just want
> the pharmacy, not the supermarket. See Sainsbury's with a Lloyds Pharmacy
> inside it https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/6868601075 Tesco with a
> Tesco pharmacy inside https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/6841571554
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Road closures/changes during Covid19

[Jez Nicholson]

Good idea.

I know that https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/165405326 in Brighton has
been temporarily closed (in reality and in OSM).

On Sun, 24 May 2020, 15:46 Tony OSM,  wrote:

> Hi
>
> Yes a very good idea.
>
> I'm in  North West England - the main driver in this area is Manchester. I
> have seen social media  and news outlets showing photos of Deansgate,
> Manchester with expanded pedestrian areas and expanded cycle lanes; motor
> vehicles removed - but I don't know if there are delivery exceptions. This
> has been an aspiration for several years so it may become permanent.
>
> I can't travel to survey this.
>
> I have seen no mentions of expanded bicycle /pedestrian areas in Chorley
> or Preston.
>
> If a table in a wiki page was created iy region/alphabetic town - we could
> pool our knowledge and plan survey trips. Information saying no change is
> also helpful.
>
> Regards
>
> Tony
> On 24/05/2020 14:34, Rob Nickerson wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> How are you reflecting current road changes in OpenStreetMap? I am aware
> that some cities are closing a few roads to motor traffic and installing
> additional cycle infrastructure. I'm not sure how permanent this is going
> to be, but it certainly feels like it will last a few months.
>
> Is it worth setting up a coordinated approach to mapping these changes? We
> can set up a wiki page with a table of who is contributing in each city,
> where data is available, and what tags we want to use.
>
> Let me know what you think.
>
> Thanks,
> *Rob*
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Solar panels 150k up

[Jez Nicholson]

"100%, 100%!!!"

On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 12:47 PM Jez Nicholson 
wrote:

> Of approximately 300 ground-mounted solar farms (field(s) full of solar
> panels generating >=1MW) in the UK we have around 12 remaining to
> locatewhich, quite frankly, is astounding. I am getting ready to run
> around my study shouting, "100%, 100%!!!" as soon as I get a few more hours
> to complete the list. Most are a simple boundary outline. It is common to
> have a 'deer fence' around the installation and this makes for a nice
> boundary, some are detailed with individual banks of panels. I favour
> progressive enhancement of sites over time. Thank you to everyone involved.
>
> There are approximately 740 roof-mounted solar farms. I have not made any
> attempt yet to collate or locate them. My limited experience is that these
> are harder to armchair-map.
>
> On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 12:07 PM Gregory Williams <
> greg...@gregorywilliams.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 2020-05-12 at 11:08 +0100, SK53 wrote:
>> > Just would like to point out that we passed the 150,000 mark of solar
>> > panels mapped in the UK. Dan & Jez are best informed about solar
>> > farms, so the rest of this update is on small domestic rooftop
>> > installations.
>> >
>> > A number of us continue to spend time mapping rooftop panels, and,
>> > although progress is not at the heady rate of last Summer, this has
>> > resulted in improved coverage of a number of local authorities. These
>> > are the activities of which I'm aware, there are no doubt others I've
>> > missed:
>> > I mainly aim to push reasonably well-mapped LAs over various
>> > thresholds (50%, 60% & 80% are the ones I find most useful), and to
>> > try & create a contiguous band of well-mapped (>50%) across England &
>> > Wales. Recently I've worked on Flintshire, Hinckley & Bosworth and
>> > Vale Royal.
>> > gurglypipe continues to spread out beyond Lancaster into South Lakes
>> > to the N & Ribbledale and to the S
>> > brianboru continues to pick up a significant number of installations
>> > across Herefordshire & the Welsh Valleys as part of general mapping
>> > work
>> > Gregory Williams continues to focus on hotspot unmapped LSOAs
>> > MapRoulette users make a steady contribution by converting panels
>> > mapped as nodes to areas
>> > Gregory has recently updated the FIT data to March which added
>> > perhaps 20,000 additional installations. To deal with these he had to
>> > change the LA boundaries used to incorporate unitary authorities
>> > (affecting Cheshire, Cornwall, Wiltshire, Shropshire, Northumberland
>> > & perhaps others). One consequence is that some well-mapped districts
>> > dropped below thresholds, so I've been working over the last few days
>> > to restore them if possible (Ashford, Hart & Rugby still to be hauled
>> > back over 50%). Very kindly, he agreed to retain the original
>> > district boundaries on a distinct web page, because I found working
>> > with the old districts of large rural counties more useful than the
>> > new boundaries.
>>
>> The distinct web page is at:
>> http://osm.gregorywilliams.me.uk/solar_2001/
>>
>> I also hope to soon have LSOA-level detail on the Scottish pages, which
>> should help with locating PV installations from aerial imagery more
>> easily -- I'm conscious that it's a bit difficult at the moment, with
>> the areas being so physically large.
>>
>> >
>> > As well as adding new panels here's still plenty to do with the ones
>> > already mapped: adding buildings under mapped panels, adjusting
>> > position, adding number of panels and orientation.
>> >
>> > Thanks to all who have contributed.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Jerry
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Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging showgrounds

[Jez Nicholson]

By all means create a UK-specific page to document discussions, show
differences to the rest of the world, and/or state how we do things round
these parts. The naming convention is "[Primary subject] in the United
Kingdom", as in "Showgrounds in the United Kingdom".

On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 12:30 PM Paul Berry  wrote:

> Not sure about the tagging/proposal politics but since there are a small
> number of showgrounds, is there anything to stop a UK-specific page being
> set up on the Wiki for visibility? Then if anyone wants to harmonise the
> tags they can use that as a guide to do so.
>
> There's nothing to say we can't tag in any way we want—and again for this
> small collection of entities which are clearly all the same fundamental
> object—it's only if we want people to be consistent, or to adopt our tags,
> that we would need to go through the process of proposed tag adoption.
>
> Regards,
> *Paul*
>
> On Wed, 13 May 2020 at 10:10, nathan case  wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Just to drag this back up - I encountered an unmapped showground
>> (Chipping, Lancashire) whilst adding PROWs and don't know the best way to
>> tag. It appears to hold a several large shows each year (well presumably
>> not this year!) but doesn't appear to be a recreational site.
>>
>> I found this abandoned proposal for amenity=show_grounds:
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/show_grounds It's
>> a shame it never got traction as it might enable us to come to some
>> consensus on these sites. Can an abandoned proposal be re-opened or does it
>> have to be re-proposed?
>>
>> Cheers.
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Andy Townsend 
>> Sent: 25 February 2020 00:23
>> To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>> Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging showgrounds
>>
>> Since I was going through these anyway to see what ought to be rendered
>> at map.atownsend.org.uk, I thought I might as well list them here too.
>> These are things "tagged a bit like showgrounds, excluding bus stops and
>> car parks", sorted by one of the main tags.
>>
>> I suspect that the ones tagged just "place", "landuse=grass" or
>> "tourism=attraction" only probably need some other tag to say "this is a
>> showground".   "events_venue" might be a misunderstanding of what that tag
>> was for.  "recreation_ground" may be correct in some cases but I suspect
>> isn't in many others. "park" I'd be similarly surprised if it was often
>> correct.  In most or all cases it probably needs a local to make the call,
>> though...
>>
>> place:
>>
>>
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2382298440
>> name Mannsfield Showground
>> place locality
>> source OS OpenData StreetView
>>
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3416147963
>> name Great Harwood Showground
>> place neighbourhood
>>
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4347790541
>> addr:postcode BS37 8QZ
>> addr:street Westerleigh Road
>> name The Windmill Fisheries Showground place locality
>>
>>
>> events_venue only:
>>
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5849512782
>> alt_name Royal Cornwall Event Centre amenity events_venue name
>> Royal Cornwall Showground
>>
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/6938439833
>> amenity events_venue
>> name Hertfordshire County Showground operator Hertfordshire
>> Country Council
>>
>>
>> tourism=attraction only:
>>
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/283445694
>> name Devon County Showground
>> tourism attraction
>>
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/91401877
>> name Kent Showground
>> source Bing
>> tourism attraction
>>
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/40942963
>> barrier fence
>> name Norfolk Showground
>> tourism attraction
>>
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/316706558
>> name Great Yorkshire Showground
>> tourism attraction
>>
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/104155888
>> barrier fence
>> name Royal Bath and West of England Showground tourism attraction
>>
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/239487854
>> name Hennock Showground
>> tourism attraction
>>
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/178396540
>> addr:city Newark
>> addr:postcode NG24 2NY
>> addr:street Lincoln Road
>> alt_name Newark Show Ground
>> name Newark Showground
>> operator Newark & Nottinghamshire Agricultural Society phone +44
>> 1636 705796 tourism attraction website
>> http://www.newarkshowground.com/ wikidata Q15262122
>>
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/274093728
>> name Lincolnshire Showground
>> tourism attraction
>>
>>
>> recreation_ground only:
>>
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/603746353
>> alt_name Briscwm Fields
>> description Normally farmland,  Used to hold events such as the
>> Cardigan County Agricultural Show.
>> landuse recreation_ground
>> name Cardigan County Showground
>> note Located from information on Coflein.
>> phone +44 1545 570501
>> recreation_ground 

Re: [Talk-GB] Solar panels 150k up

[Jez Nicholson]

Of approximately 300 ground-mounted solar farms (field(s) full of solar
panels generating >=1MW) in the UK we have around 12 remaining to
locatewhich, quite frankly, is astounding. I am getting ready to run
around my study shouting, "100%, 100%!!!" as soon as I get a few more hours
to complete the list. Most are a simple boundary outline. It is common to
have a 'deer fence' around the installation and this makes for a nice
boundary, some are detailed with individual banks of panels. I favour
progressive enhancement of sites over time. Thank you to everyone involved.

There are approximately 740 roof-mounted solar farms. I have not made any
attempt yet to collate or locate them. My limited experience is that these
are harder to armchair-map.

On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 12:07 PM Gregory Williams <
greg...@gregorywilliams.me.uk> wrote:

> On Tue, 2020-05-12 at 11:08 +0100, SK53 wrote:
> > Just would like to point out that we passed the 150,000 mark of solar
> > panels mapped in the UK. Dan & Jez are best informed about solar
> > farms, so the rest of this update is on small domestic rooftop
> > installations.
> >
> > A number of us continue to spend time mapping rooftop panels, and,
> > although progress is not at the heady rate of last Summer, this has
> > resulted in improved coverage of a number of local authorities. These
> > are the activities of which I'm aware, there are no doubt others I've
> > missed:
> > I mainly aim to push reasonably well-mapped LAs over various
> > thresholds (50%, 60% & 80% are the ones I find most useful), and to
> > try & create a contiguous band of well-mapped (>50%) across England &
> > Wales. Recently I've worked on Flintshire, Hinckley & Bosworth and
> > Vale Royal.
> > gurglypipe continues to spread out beyond Lancaster into South Lakes
> > to the N & Ribbledale and to the S
> > brianboru continues to pick up a significant number of installations
> > across Herefordshire & the Welsh Valleys as part of general mapping
> > work
> > Gregory Williams continues to focus on hotspot unmapped LSOAs
> > MapRoulette users make a steady contribution by converting panels
> > mapped as nodes to areas
> > Gregory has recently updated the FIT data to March which added
> > perhaps 20,000 additional installations. To deal with these he had to
> > change the LA boundaries used to incorporate unitary authorities
> > (affecting Cheshire, Cornwall, Wiltshire, Shropshire, Northumberland
> > & perhaps others). One consequence is that some well-mapped districts
> > dropped below thresholds, so I've been working over the last few days
> > to restore them if possible (Ashford, Hart & Rugby still to be hauled
> > back over 50%). Very kindly, he agreed to retain the original
> > district boundaries on a distinct web page, because I found working
> > with the old districts of large rural counties more useful than the
> > new boundaries.
>
> The distinct web page is at:
> http://osm.gregorywilliams.me.uk/solar_2001/
>
> I also hope to soon have LSOA-level detail on the Scottish pages, which
> should help with locating PV installations from aerial imagery more
> easily -- I'm conscious that it's a bit difficult at the moment, with
> the areas being so physically large.
>
> >
> > As well as adding new panels here's still plenty to do with the ones
> > already mapped: adding buildings under mapped panels, adjusting
> > position, adding number of panels and orientation.
> >
> > Thanks to all who have contributed.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Jerry
> > ___
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Re: [Talk-GB] Can anyone reverse this changeset please?

[Jez Nicholson]

A big thank you form me to everyone who sorted this out :)

On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 11:19 AM Andy Townsend  wrote:

> On 27/04/2020 11:09, Peter Neale via Talk-GB wrote:
>
> I THINK I have done it.
>
> It took a bit of fiddling to separate some shared points, but then I was
> able to cut the offending line and delete a section at a time (which fitted
> on the screen).
>
> That definitely sounds like "the hard way" :)
>
> It would probably have worked (apart from the orphan nodes).
>
> I hope that I have not disturbed anything else in the process.
>
> I don't think so - you can see the changes here:
>
> https://overpass-api.de/achavi/?changeset=84190221
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Andy
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Can anyone reverse this changeset please?

[Jez Nicholson]

Note that the vast majority of the points in the Way were pre-existing. Any
fix should leave them in place.

On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 10:54 AM nathan case  wrote:

> I’m fairly sure Potlach (assuming you want to tackle this via a browser
> editor) allows you to delete larger areas in one go – rather than deleting
> point by point.
>
>
>
> Cheers.
>
>
>
> *From:* Peter Neale via Talk-GB 
> *Sent:* Monday, April 27, 2020 10:43 AM
> *To:* Talk-GB ; Jez Nicholson <
> jez.nichol...@gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] Can anyone reverse this changeset please?
>
>
>
> I think that I understand the issue.  A solution may be to delete
> individual points until the whole way is small enough to be shown on a
> screen at editable zoom.
>
>
>
> I am happy to spend a while trying this, but it is probably best if only
> one of us is stirring the pot at once.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Monday, 27 April 2020, 10:32:44 BST, Jez Nicholson <
> jez.nichol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> A new user has created a new way in Brighton to indicate the Hollingbury
> residential error https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/785162533 They freely
> admit their error but are unable to remove it, as am I. Would anyone be
> able to assist please?
>
>
>
> I only have anecdotal evidence (like this one) but it seems that a 'new
> user thing to do' is to 'correct my local area'. Might be another reason to
> lock boundaries from new user changes?
>
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[Talk-GB] Can anyone reverse this changeset please?

[Jez Nicholson]

A new user has created a new way in Brighton to indicate the Hollingbury
residential error https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/785162533 They freely
admit their error but are unable to remove it, as am I. Would anyone be
able to assist please?

I only have anecdotal evidence (like this one) but it seems that a 'new
user thing to do' is to 'correct my local area'. Might be another reason to
lock boundaries from new user changes?
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Re: [Talk-GB] OSMF microgrants

[Jez Nicholson]

Not entirely serious/thought through, but i'd like to but an electric bike,
cover it with OSM branding, and camera kit for making
Mapillary/OpenStreetCam video. The bike then gets taken round various
cities in the UK as a focal point for increasing the public's knowledge and
contribution to OSM in the UK.

On Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 11:58 AM Rob Nickerson 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Just wanted to follow up on this to see if anyone had ideas for the OSMF
> microgrant scheme.
>
> Thanks
> Rob
>
> On Sun, 19 Apr 2020, 17:49 Rob Nickerson, 
> wrote:
>
>> Here are some ideas to get us started. Happy for anyone to pick these up
>> and run with them. If you do, please let me know otherwise I may raise some
>> myself:
>>
>> *Design and production of a series of leaflets. *
>> I really liked the Wikimedia leaflets that were handed out at the OSM UK
>> AGM in London. We borrowed the style to create a leaflet in advance of the
>> MOVE 2020 conference. This one is corporate focused and hence we could do
>> with a series of leaflets targeting different audiences (Wikimedia had 2
>> leaflets at our AGM).
>>
>> *Costs related to hosting.*
>> I'm pretty sure quite a few people would appreciate this.
>>
>> *Software projects.*
>> I'm hoping we can come up with a few ideas here too. Personally I am
>> finding myself using my laptop less and less and doing a lot more on my
>> phone. A few of the OSM websites I use don't work that well on mobile so it
>> may be nice to see some changes here. I'm expecting others to have much
>> better ideas than me here though! :-D
>>
>>
>>- *Merchandise (swag) to recognize exceptional volunteer
>>contributions, or low-cost swag.*
>>- Subsidizing the cost of the hi-vis jacket scheme run by OSM UK.
>>
>>
>>
>>- *Funding for shared mapping equipment.*
>>- What about a drone? Some bike and car mounts to help us collect
>>more Mapillary / OpenStreetCam imagery?
>>
>>
>> That's my starter for ten. Looking forward to seeing your ideas.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> *Rob*
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 19 Apr 2020 at 17:17, Rob Nickerson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> The OSMF launched their microgrant scheme today. Value is up to EUR 5000
>>> (GBP 4,300) and projects can last up to 12 months.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2020/04/19/announcing-the-osm-foundations-call-for-microgrant-applications/
>>>
>>> Anyone wishing to submit a proposal "should discuss with the relevant
>>> local communities" and apparently "must consult with your Local Chapter if
>>> applicable".
>>>
>>> I'm not sure what that last point means. If it means the board then you
>>> can reach us on bo...@osmuk.org. If it means the wider membership then
>>> I suggest posting here or to our Loomio group. We are happy to collate and
>>> send a mailchimp newsletter to all our OSM UK members to ensure they get
>>> the messages (as not sure if all read this list or Loomio).
>>>
>>> Moving on from the admin, what ideas do you have? :-)
>>>
>>> Best wishes
>>> *Rob*
>>>
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[Talk-GB] Parking Eagle using OSM...and looking to hire Co-Founders

[Jez Nicholson]

In between presenting a talk about OSMUK at the Move 2020 conference back
in February (oh, remember those days when you could gather in a room with
other people!) our Brian Prangle made a few contacts. One of them was
Parking Eagle.

https://www.parkingeagle.com/ helps you to plan a route for an electric
vehicle. In particular, they are interested in the POI data around charging
points and not just the points themselves. You might need to entertain
yourself for a while. They use OpenStreetMap of course!

If this floats your boat and you are quite tech savvy then maybe you could
be their new Data Scientist Co-Founder or CTO Co-Founder. Even if it isn't,
it is always good to see another UK startup using OSM.

Regards,
 Jez
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Re: [Talk-GB] HS2 Phase 1 Construction NTP

[Jez Nicholson]

I have featured a bit of HS2 in today's OSMUK Insta posting
https://www.instagram.com/p/B_P2HmGnGsi/

On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 3:22 PM Brian Prangle  wrote:

> Hi Andy
>
> I think maybe a bit premature to make the change you've suggested. OK to
> convert parcels of land to landuse-=construction as and when HS2 activity
> gets going - even if its only demolition.
>
> Regards
>
> Brian
>
> On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 at 11:48, Andy Robinson  wrote:
>
>> Tony, thus far all the construction activity has been and is enabling
>> works. That is mostly related to relocating utilities (especially the major
>> ones), site clearances and the establishment of the working compounds. Many
>> of these have already in full or in part been mapped into OSM. As yet they
>> haven’t mostly been fencing off the main line route. I expect we will see
>> that happen soon for the over land sections. In London not much change will
>> be visible beyond the current clearances and site compound set-ups. The
>> shafts and portals for the main tunnels will be about the only obvious new
>> work in the future outside of the station developments. The construction of
>> the stations themselves is not yet confirmed.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Andy
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Tony OSM [mailto:tonyo...@gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* 17 April 2020 10:02
>> *To:* talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] HS2 Phase 1 Construction NTP
>>
>>
>>
>> we've seen news reports of parts of the alignment fenced off and invaded
>> by protestors - those parts are certainly under construction, and the
>> pictures show that bulldozers have been active. I think if we can identify
>> those areas then construction is now correct.
>>
>> Tony Shield
>>
>> TonyS999
>>
>> On 17/04/2020 09:14, Andy Robinson wrote:
>>
>> Jez, I think the actual rails may be a long way off but I agree it’s an
>> opportunity to stay ahead of the completion.
>>
>>
>>
>> A question for the whole list. How do folks feel about changing the Phase
>> 1 route from rail=proposed to rail=construction. Perhaps it’s a bit
>> premature but then perhaps not.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Andy
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Jez Nicholson [mailto:jez.nichol...@gmail.com
>> ]
>> *Sent:* 16 April 2020 22:15
>> *To:* Andy Robinson
>> *Cc:* Talk-GB
>> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] HS2 Phase 1 Construction NTP
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks Andy, this is opportunity for OSM to be *the* best source of HS2
>> rails data.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 15 Apr 2020, 17:48 Andy Robinson,  wrote:
>>
>> Government issued Notice to Procced for Phase 1 today, which means the
>> main contracts construction between London and Birmingham will start
>> imminently so keep an eye out for major new works in your area soon (though
>> I expect these will be slow to spot while we are in lockdown!)
>>
>>
>>
>> Till now all works relating to HS2 have been enabling works or design
>> related.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Andy
>>
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>>
>>
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[Talk-GB] Electric Vehicle charging points that are part of a lamppost

[Jez Nicholson]

I've noticed that Brighton & Hove City Council are rolling out some natty
EV charging points that are attached to lampposts.them being wired in
already. Looks like this https://www.instagram.com/p/B_Fm7L8nOL8

Anyway, how would you tag it? Is it a node for a street highway=street_lamp
and an amenity=charging_station at the same time?
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[Talk-GB] postboxes

[Jez Nicholson]

I've been using Robert's Postbox tracker to plan dog walks around the
street of Brighton (as the parks are too full of people!) Quite surprising
how many are missing in my area. I had assumed that they'd been done ages
ago. Maybe check yours, or point new mappers at them as a nice starter
activity?
https://osm.mathmos.net/postboxes/progress/BN/BN1/#13/50.8527/-0.1375

AnywayRobert, is the update running? I haven't seen the display change.

Regards,
 Jez
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Re: [Talk-GB] HS2 Phase 1 Construction NTP

[Jez Nicholson]

+1 for changing Phase One to rail=construction  although not, like my
earlier typo, rails=construction ;)

On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 10:03 AM Tony OSM  wrote:

> we've seen news reports of parts of the alignment fenced off and invaded
> by protestors - those parts are certainly under construction, and the
> pictures show that bulldozers have been active. I think if we can identify
> those areas then construction is now correct.
>
> Tony Shield
>
> TonyS999
> On 17/04/2020 09:14, Andy Robinson wrote:
>
> Jez, I think the actual rails may be a long way off but I agree it’s an
> opportunity to stay ahead of the completion.
>
>
>
> A question for the whole list. How do folks feel about changing the Phase
> 1 route from rail=proposed to rail=construction. Perhaps it’s a bit
> premature but then perhaps not.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Andy
>
>
>
> *From:* Jez Nicholson [mailto:jez.nichol...@gmail.com
> ]
> *Sent:* 16 April 2020 22:15
> *To:* Andy Robinson
> *Cc:* Talk-GB
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] HS2 Phase 1 Construction NTP
>
>
>
> Thanks Andy, this is opportunity for OSM to be *the* best source of HS2
> rails data.
>
>
>
> On Wed, 15 Apr 2020, 17:48 Andy Robinson,  wrote:
>
> Government issued Notice to Procced for Phase 1 today, which means the
> main contracts construction between London and Birmingham will start
> imminently so keep an eye out for major new works in your area soon (though
> I expect these will be slow to spot while we are in lockdown!)
>
>
>
> Till now all works relating to HS2 have been enabling works or design
> related.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Andy
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] HS2 Phase 1 Construction NTP

[Jez Nicholson]

Thanks Andy, this is opportunity for OSM to be *the* best source of HS2
rails data.

On Wed, 15 Apr 2020, 17:48 Andy Robinson,  wrote:

> Government issued Notice to Procced for Phase 1 today, which means the
> main contracts construction between London and Birmingham will start
> imminently so keep an eye out for major new works in your area soon (though
> I expect these will be slow to spot while we are in lockdown!)
>
>
>
> Till now all works relating to HS2 have been enabling works or design
> related.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Andy
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Re: [Talk-GB] Geospatial Commission to release UPRN/ UPSN identifiers under Open Government Licence

[Jez Nicholson]

I don't think they meant 'replace an address with addr:uprn', just enhance
it.

On Thu, 9 Apr 2020, 21:37 Lester Caine,  wrote:

> On 09/04/2020 20:58, nd...@redhazel.co.uk wrote:
> > If uprn is supposed to denote an address, why not simply use addr:uprn?
> There is no intention that UPRN will replace an address. It will be able
> to return a unique address but there will be no move to remove that
> duplicate data from OSM. What the UPRN allows is the addition of
> external information which is also managed by public services.
>
> --
> Lester Caine - G8HFL
> -
> Contact - https://lsces.uk/wiki/Contact
> L.S.Caine Electronic Services - https://lsces.uk
> Model Engineers Digital Workshop - https://medw.uk
> Rainbow Digital Media - https://rainbowdigitalmedia.uk
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Q2 2020 Quarterly project GP Surgeries and health sites

[Jez Nicholson]

That's a great idea. I'll get the OSMUK machine rolling.

On Thu, 9 Apr 2020, 17:27 Andy Mabbett,  wrote:

> On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 at 22:55, Gareth L  wrote:
>
> > The UK quarterly project for Q2 2020 has been selected as GP
> > Surgeries and health sites.
>
> Good to know; thank you.
>
> Do we have, or plan, any social media promotion of this activity? I'd
> be happy to amplify it, and my contacts at Wikimedia UK will do so,
> too.
>
> --
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> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Q2 2020 Quarterly project GP Surgeries and health sites

[Jez Nicholson]

I've added Jerry's comments to
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_2020_Q2_Project:_GP_Surgeries_and_Healthsites#Potential_sources_and_tools
which
is there for all of you to edit and add to.

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 12:09 PM SK53  wrote:

> Robert Whittaker has a Pharmacy QA 
> site (usefulness is somewhat limited because of on-line pharmacies & in
> hospital ones). Most ordinary pharmacies appear in FHRS data as well.
>
> All CQC data (including dentists & care homes) is available on Will
> Phillips OSM-Nottingham site. Just move the map to the area of interest and
> search for a term using open data sources (this can be restricted to CQC).
> Data are usually located at the post code centroid (this example
> 
> is all CQC entries for DE1 postcode district).
>
> Jerry
>
> On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 at 22:55, Gareth L  wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>>
>>
>> The UK quarterly project for Q2 2020 has been selected as GP Surgeries
>> and health sites. The wiki page is
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_2020_Q2_Project:_GP_Surgeries_and_Healthsites
>>
>>
>>
>> A couple interesting sources of data, the Care Quality Commission appears
>> to provide a data set similar to the food hygiene rating system so should
>> be good for addresses, but they only cover England. Does anyone know of
>> Wales/Scotland/N. Ireland equivalents?
>>
>> https://healthsites.io is a global project which has a lot of overlap.
>>
>>
>>
>> It would be good to have a source for pharmacies. A potential source is
>> https://inspections.pharmacyregulation.org/ however it is not
>> immediately clear if they share their data, let alone under what license.
>> Has this been pursued before?
>>
>>
>>
>> Warm regards
>>
>> Gareth
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Geospatial Commission to release UPRN/ UPSN identifiers under Open Government Licence

[Jez Nicholson]

please tell me that does not mean that rather than releasing geodata with
lat-lon, street address, etc., UK Govt will use a proprietary id instead?
and to turn this id into something usable I have to licence an OS product.

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 4:10 PM Andy Mabbett 
wrote:

> "Unique Property and Street Reference Numbers to become the standard
> way of referencing and sharing address information about properties
> and streets across government, helping to transform public services
> and boost our economy"
>
>
> https://www.gov.uk/government/news/geospatial-commission-to-release-core-identifiers-under-open-government-licence
>
> --
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> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Adding Leeds Bins to OpenStreetMaps

[Jez Nicholson]

I've seen requests (from the French) for refs to be country namespaced,
e.g. ref:UK:leedscc:id or ref:UK:leedscc:bin:id Seems like overkill to
start with, but then it does prevent duplication.

Is the LLC id a number used for bins only, or for all types of asset?

On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 11:37 AM Andy Mabbett 
wrote:

> On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 10:10, Patrick Lake 
> wrote:
>
> > I thought of just tagging the LCC ID as lcc:id as I assume it will be
> meaningless to anyone not from the council.
>
> To avoid conflicts with Liverpool, or Lima, please consider using
> leedscc:id etc.
>
> >Here’s the rest of the tags we planned to use
>
> > waste_basket:defects=loose
>
> That seems rather transient (or should be).
>
> > lcc:comments=”under city centre team management”
>
> operator:"Leeds CC city centre team" ?
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Anyone in South-West London?

[Jez Nicholson]

Heh, none of the references on the Wikipedia page link to anything
mentioning that it exists. I call bullsh/t

On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 2:34 PM Andrew Hain 
wrote:

> I wonder if Tfondie who created the Wikipedia page may be the same person.
>
> --
> Andrew
>
> --
> *From:* Andrew Hain 
> *Sent:* 23 March 2020 20:18
> *To:* Colin Smale 
> *Cc:* Talk-GB 
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] Anyone in South-West London?
>
> There is now a place name Stadium Village just north of Twickenham town
> centre that is unfamiliar to me (I live across the Thames). The linked
> Wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadium_Village,_Middlesex
> exists but reads oddly.
>
> --
> Andrew
> --
> *From:* Andrew Hain 
> *Sent:* 21 March 2020 11:18
> *To:* Colin Smale 
> *Cc:* Talk-GB 
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] Anyone in South-West London?
>
> Further issues:
>
> Richmond rugby ground tagged addr:city=London Borough of Hounslow
> Middlesex changed to county
> Fulwell bus garage tagged name=Fulwell Bus Garage (Middlesex)
>
> There are some legitimate edits there such as shop=supermarket for Lidl
> Fulwell, payment tags for M Food To Go in Twickenham may be legitimate
> and the department store tagging was by another mapper by an editor preset.
>
> --
> Andrew
>
> --
> *From:* Colin Smale 
> *Sent:* 20 March 2020 18:46
> *To:* Andrew Hain 
> *Cc:* Talk-GB 
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] Anyone in South-West London?
>
>
> On 2020-03-20 19:36, Andrew Hain wrote:
>
> Also changing the name tag for Eel Pie Island.
>
>
> Yeah, that was the first thing I noticed. I changed that one back, and
> left comments on a couple of other changes, but when I saw the rest I gave
> up.
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Adding Leeds Bins to OpenStreetMaps

[Jez Nicholson]

Hi Patrick,

Shame LCC aren't 'dogfooding', ie using their own data, as it does
encourage people to take it seriously. I guess that your regular diffs will
spot discrepancies. I've had problems in the past with benches being
removed (in real life and on OSM) then reappearing because it was just the
council refurbing them.

What do you propose tagging the LCC id as? Or would you like suggestions?

- Jez

On Wed, 25 Mar 2020, 11:00 Patrick Lake,  wrote:

> Hi Jake,
>
>
>
> No, LCC haven’t told us that they’ll use the data for those sort of
> purposes. It wasn’t part of the specification, and to our knowledge they
> won’t be reliant on it – obviously with it being open data they’re free to
> use it for whatever they would like, but we’ve made them aware that OSM can
> be edited and things can be deleted by users.
>
>
>
> We currently extract OSM data for different amenities West Yorkshire
> daily, including bins, and store it in a GitHub repo
> .
> We plan to make a repo specifically for bin data – we’ll extract OSM data
> daily and compare it, updating the repo if necessary. This then means LCC,
> and others, will be able to look at the commit history to see what edits
> have been made across time, and revert them if necessary. We’re looking at
> using the GitHub API to integrate the commit history into the tool we’re
> building for LCC.
>
>
>
> To differentiate between council and business’ bins, we’ll just use a tag
> – we’ll confirm what this will be before uploading. Also, the existing data
> we’re bulk importing has a LCC ID which will be included as a tag.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Patrick
>
> *From: *Jake Edmonds 
> *Date: *Tuesday, 24 March 2020 at 12:47
> *To: *Patrick Lake 
> *Subject: *Re: [Talk-GB] Adding Leeds Bins to OpenStreetMaps
>
>
>
> Hi Patrick
>
> Are LCC staff planning to use the final dataset for various tasks, such as
> planning collection routes?
>
>
>
> I’m sure you have good answers for my questions but I’m just interested in
> a practical sense.
>
>
>
> What happens if a bin is accidentally/maliciously removed from OSM/moved?
>
> How are you planning to differentiate between LCC bins and bins provided
> by businesses?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Jake
>
>
>
>
>
> On 24 Mar 2020, at 13:40, Patrick Lake  wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> Thanks for the feedback, that’s what we were hoping to hear.
>
>
>
> Silent Spike, in answer to your questions – we’ve been told by the council
> that it is quite accurate, although with a dataset of 3000+ bins there is
> likely to be minor mistakes. Visually, the locations look sensible, which
> is reassuring.
>
>
>
> Here’s the method we planned to use:
>
>- There is definitely some bins which are already on OSM, so to avoid
>adding duplicates I took the locations of existing bins on OSM and the
>dataset from Leeds council, and created a distance matrix. My thought was,
>I would separate any bins in the LCC dataset which are less than 15 metres
>away from the nearest bin already on OSM, as they’re potential duplicates.
>I could then inspect these manually in JOSM and decide which ones to add
>(if any)
>- For the rest of the bins, we’ll convert the GeoJson to OSM format
>using one of the tools listed here
>
> (probably osm-and-geojson
> as I’ve tested this).
>My colleague Stuart has a good knowledge of OSM so he’s identified which
>tags we’ll use – I will post a list of these to get feedback before we
>upload anything.
>- I will use the bulk_upload.py tool
> to upload the osm
>file. This seemed like a good choice but please let me know if there’s a
>better one.
>
>
>
> The whole process will be tested with the dev server first, just to be
> safe.
>
>
>
> Tony, thanks for the advice – I’ll have a look at the West Midlands stuff
> yes. The verification tag & date seems like a really good idea too – we
> hadn’t thought of that.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
> *From: *Tony OSM 
> *Date: *Tuesday, 24 March 2020 at 12:18
> *To: *"talk-gb@openstreetmap.org" 
> *Subject: *Re: [Talk-GB] Adding Leeds Bins to OpenStreetMaps
>
>
>
> Agree with Silent Spike.
>
> This has a lot of similarities with NaPTAN bus stop imports - conflating
> and verification/validation are the difficulties there - looking at the
> West Midlands notes may help.
>
> For Leeds with a workforce regularly checking/cleaning bins then perhaps
> the tool you are planning to build could add a verification tag & date for
> completion on the first visit after an upload.
>
> TonyS999
>
> On 24/03/2020 12:02, Silent Spike wrote:
>
> Hey,
>
>
>
> I think this seems like a well planned and researched proposal. Personally
> would be happy to see such an import - 

Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project Suggestion - drink_water:refill

[Jez Nicholson]

It will be interesting to hear about Refill UK's policy on Open Data.
Perhaps they believe that their business model is inoperable if the data is
open?

I believe that they are a figurehead project from Ordnance Survey's
Geovation scheme. I hope that they haven't tainted their data.

On Fri, 13 Mar 2020, 10:55 European Water Project, <
europeanwaterproj...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I am due to have a call Tuesday morning (17/3) with Rebecca Burgess, CEO
>> of Refill UK (https://refill.org.uk/ )  and the parent organisation City
>> to Sea( https://www.citytosea.org.uk/ ) . This is one of many calls I
>> have had with Refill.
>>
>> The Refill board's reluctance to share/license water refill data openly
>> is very unfortunate.  Refill requires all partners to exclusively sell
>> Chilly water bottles and only use their application.  I hope we can
>> convince Refill to reconsider.
>>
>
>
>> Building a global open database of water refill points would be
>> beneficial to all - resulting in a larger and better maintained network and
>> less single-use plastic !
>>
>
>>
>> *From:* Gareth L 
>> *Date:* 12 March 2020 at 12:36:14 CET
>> *To:* Jake Edmonds 
>> *Cc:* "talk-gb@openstreetmap.org" 
>> *Subject:* *Re:  [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project Suggestion -
>> drink_water:refill*
>>
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Jake,
>>
>> Thanks for posting about this. I’m due to post on the Osm-uk loomio
>> asking for suggestions on what the Q2 project should be. Are you aware of
>> any other viable sources of data beyond an in person survey?
>> I wonder why refill wouldn’t want to license their data.
>>
>> Gareth
>>
>> On 12 Mar 2020, at 11:27, Jake Edmonds via Talk-GB <
>> talk-gb@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>>
>>  I understand there is an existing suggestion on the UK Quarterly
>> Project talk page about drinking water but I wanted to add my support now
>> that the drinking_water:refill proposal was approved. The tag is used to
>> indicate if the establishment participates in a water refill network. I
>> understand Refill.org.uk are unwilling to license their data.
>>
>> The drinking_water:refill tag is currently in use by the European Water
>> Project's website and priceless.zottelig.ch. In addition OsmAnd have
>> just added support according to their GitHub, I hope they will push an
>> update to their apps soon.
>>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key%3Adrinking_water%3Arefill
>> 
>>
>>
>> https://github.com/osmandapp/OsmAnd-resources/commit/15f5c919d3ac25cc048c4f3e0a569f7981999f65
>>
>> Many thanks
>> Jake
>>
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[Talk-GB] Dept for Transport seeking NaPTAN/OSM knowledge

[Jez Nicholson]

My friend Giuseppe Sollazzo @puntofisso Head of Data @transportgovuk is
requesting help from the NaPTAN knowledgable...

"Are you someone who
1. works in a Local Authority and is responsible for #NaPTAN
2. is a volunteer who adds data from NaPTAN into  @openstreetmap
3. works for any mapping application/agency and uses NaPTAN?"

https://twitter.com/puntofisso/status/1235547992918286336

Please contact him via Twitter if you know owt.

Regards,
 Jez
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Re: [Talk-GB] Private and restricted access post boxes

[Jez Nicholson]

I'm inclined to think that it is the areas that are restricted and not the
postboxes, and hence map them as normal.

I've had a similar issue with clothes recycling boxes on school premises.

On Sun, 1 Mar 2020, 15:56 Dan Glover,  wrote:

> So it’s March, the sun is shining here and it’s time to go back out in
> pursuit of post boxes and other OSM things.
>
>
>
> While working through the CT postal area three things have come up which
> maybe need further thought:
>
>
>
> -  Some boxes are located within MOD or other restricted access
> sites.  To those inside the fence they are normal facilities but perhaps
> they’re not an “amenity” in the sense of being available to the general
> public.  This also tends to inhibit surveying.
>
>
>
> -  Royal Mail data from 2013 in some cases includes “private
> boxes”, one local example is in the reception area of an hotel.  There is a
> mail collection from the building but there’s a conventional pillar box
> within 200 m.  These probably aren’t an “amenity” in general terms.  The RM
> data treats them inconsistently, they’re not all listed.
>
>
>
> -  There are boxes inside some supermarkets. They are also on
> private property however the public is encouraged to visit the premises.
> Those in Tesco and Asda, maybe others, tend to be tall GRP boxes of this
> style (a variation with clear back is used at airports and other places
> where security might be a concern)
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Post_box_at_ASDA,_Smithdown_Road.jpg.
> These are owned and operated by RM in the normal fashion.  In the past
> Sainsbury’s had boxes carrying advertising and often labelled MIDI POST or
> similar, in this style
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Post_box_CH49_15_in_Sainsbury,_Upton.jpg
> I understand these were “private” in RM terms and the third party which
> managed them went into administration, following which most were removed.
> However due to RM’s inconsistent data some appear in the 2013 FOI release.
>
>
>
> Is there an appropriate way to handle the first two cases?  Should they be
> in OSM at all, or shown with a tag to indicate restricted access?
>
>
>
> As for the Sainsbury’s boxes it may be the best thing is to treat all of
> them as requiring a check to confirm whether the facility still exists.
>
>
>
>
>
> Dan
>
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[Talk-GB] Cheers Drive, Bristol

[Jez Nicholson]

Just been reading about the naming of a new road in Bristol "Cheers Drive"
which is apparently a local way to thank a bus/taxi driver
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-bristol-51501412

Thing that caught my eye was the reference to Google Maps having it on
already which made me wonder how, because the road signs haven't been
installed yet? Are they importing road change notices from the Council?

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/51.46730/-2.54036

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Cheers+Dr,+Speedwell,+Bristol+BS5+7FQ/@51.4669956,-2.5405969,17z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x48718fc9fa803fa1:0x28c4a3d7786bfeab
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[Talk-GB] Disaster Ninja Mapping Activity layer

[Jez Nicholson]

Just found this

The Disaster Ninja tool is used for humanitarian mapping
activities...they've just added a Mapping Activity layer and it has data
for the whole world, so you can look at who maps in the UK at
https://disaster.ninja/live/#overlays=alert-shape,bivariate-custom_kontur_openstreetmap_quantity,osm-users,bivariate_kontur_openstreetmap_mapping_activity;id=GDACS_TC_1000653_12;position=-0.8864386280192775,52.465291499296484;zoom=6.126448577231961

That's as much as I know about it. Enjoy.
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[Talk-GB] "One million solar panels! If only we knew where they were..."

[Jez Nicholson]

Nice to see Dan Stilwell and Jack Kelly writing about the solar panels
project on
https://climatechangenews.com/2020/02/12/one-million-solar-panels-knew/
also an honourary mention for Russ Garrett and Open Infrastructure Map.
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Re: [Talk-GB] "British Islands" (was "OSMUK-in-a-box")

[Jez Nicholson]

Great...then as far as Northern Ireland is concerned then I think that the
Community Index has it right already. It allows for the overlap or OSMUK
and OSMIE, Talk-GB and Talk-IE

I've been looking at IoM, Jersey, and Guernsey which AFAIK have no coverage
in the Community Index. As you say, it uses
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-1_alpha-2 country codes via the
countryCoder so I'm expanding coverage to ["gb", "gg", "je", "im"]. I
believe that there may be an issue in how Community Index calls Country
Coder and have raised
https://github.com/osmlab/osm-community-index/issues/333

On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 11:32 AM Andy Townsend  wrote:

> On 07/02/2020 10:55, Jez Nicholson wrote:
> > Personally, I interpret the coverage of Talk-GB and OSMUK to be the
> > same, i.e. Northern Ireland is officially under OSMUK, but for
> > practical reasons mappers may want to interact with OSMIEand the
> > same for Talk-GB + Talk-IE.
>
> I think that part of the reason historically was that older
> out-of-copyright maps (and things like townlands) were common across the
> island of Ireland.
>
> Even if it was "overclaiming" I don't think that there would be a
> particular problem with talk-gb also being included on the list for NI
> at https://openstreetmap.community/ - the worst that could happen would
> be that someone would get an answer to their question (which might also
> include a mention of various IE resources).  I recently expanded the
> "East Midlands" coverage north a bit to reflect occasional meet-ups in
> Sheffield and the fact that we've had people attending from further
> north again.
>
>
> >
> > This could make the situation of gb geojson simpler. Do you know where
> > they've defined gb? I can't see it.
>
> It uses the iD editor's country coder.  The documentation for that is at
>
> https://github.com/ideditor/country-coder#readme
>
> There's a list in there of what it does and what it doesn't do.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Andy
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Panorama Mapping Party with TrekView - May 23 - Ashurst, New Forest, UK

[Jez Nicholson]

Nice hookup with Trek Viewdoes this warrant adding to
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Current_events as a mapping party? I
always like seeing UK events on there.

On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 5:37 PM Nick Whitelegg 
wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> As some of you may know I am developing OpenTrailView (
> https://opentrailview.org), a pure 100% FOSS StreetView-like application
> for off-road routes such as hiking trails which uses OpenStreetMap data to
> auto-connect the panoramas together.
>
> Recently I've been working with Trek View (trekview.org), an organisation
> which aims to capture panoramas of the natural world.
> In their words: TrekView is a not-for-profit organisation using the power
> of panoramic photography to help educate and protect against further
> destruction of our beautiful planet. In 2020, they're launching Trekker
> Camp. Think virtual field trips. Trekker Camp will design and deliver
> immersive learning experiences to give students (7-11) the necessary
> understanding and skills to tackle the world's most pressing issues, from
> ocean health to climate change.
>
> TrekView loan 360 camera packs (using the GoPro Fusion) to allow people to
> capture imagery of the natural world, from off-road routes including hiking
> routes and rivers. As well as Google Street View, TrekView's software now
> allows contributors to upload to OpenTrailView.
>
> On to the most important aspect of this post. On May 23rd, and inspired by
> OSM mapping parties, we're organising a Panorama Mapping Party at Ashurst,
> New Forest, Hampshire, UK, with the aim of intensively capturing panoramic
> imagery of the paths and trails in the area which will then be uploaded to
> OpenTrailView. As OSM coverage in the area is exceptionally good, this
> should then result in the creation of extensive walk-through tours of the
> area.
>
> The form will be similar to mapping parties. The plan is to meet at 11:00
> (there's a train which arrives from London at the local station, Ashurst
> New Forest, at around 10:45), plan, capture imagery and then get together
> in the pub afterwards.
>
> More details (with OSM map showing location):
> https://www.trekview.org/blog/2020/pano-party-new-forest-uk-may-23-2020/
>
>
> So if you're interested in 360 photography and OSM, then do come along!
> 360 camera packs will be available to borrow and use on the day, or if you
> have your own device, please bring it along.
>
> Thanks,
> Nick
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] "British Islands" (was "OSMUK-in-a-box")

[Jez Nicholson]

Personally, I interpret the coverage of Talk-GB and OSMUK to be the same,
i.e. Northern Ireland is officially under OSMUK, but for practical reasons
mappers may want to interact with OSMIEand the same for Talk-GB +
Talk-IE.

This could make the situation of gb geojson simpler. Do you know where
they've defined gb? I can't see it.

On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 10:33 AM Andy Townsend  wrote:

> On 06/02/2020 18:35, Rob Nickerson wrote:
> > >do we cover British Overseas Territories such as Gibraltar and the
> > Falkland Islands?
> >
> > Not as OSM UK CIC. We ended up settling on the British Islands:
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Islands
> >
> >
> The data underneath https://openstreetmap.community/ could do with an
> update as it explicitly avoids the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands
> as it uses "gb" as the definition in
>
> https://github.com/osmlab/osm-community-index/blob/master/resources/europe/united_kingdom/uk-localchapter.json
> .
>
> The solution would be similar to what I've just done for Ireland:
>
> https://github.com/osmlab/osm-community-index/pull/332
>
> - define a geojson for the "British Islands" and change those resources
> that should use it from "gb".
>
> The differences would be that we'd probably need 2 geojsons, since I've
> always assumed that the talk-gb list didn't include NI but OSM UK did,
> and that a geojson that had to include the border between Northern
> Ireland and the Republic would necessarily be more complex than the
> straightforward one I created for the island of Ireland.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Andy
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] "OSMUK-in-a-box"

[Jez Nicholson]

Indeed.

I will be plundering the excellent repository from Derry Hamilton for the
Docker setup soon (unless someone beats me to it).

I'd like to make the dataset all of the areas covered by OSMUK...do we
cover British Overseas Territories such as Gibraltar and the Falkland
Islands?

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020, 15:32 Brian Prangle,  wrote:

> Looks like you've got yourself a show and tell session at the OSMUK AGM
> Jez!
>
> On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 12:31, Jez Nicholson 
> wrote:
>
>> I come from a database background, and when a question isn't easily
>> answered with Taginfo or Overpass Turbo I jump to my trusty local postgres
>> database of UK data. I have a script that downloads the British Isles from
>> Geofabrik, loads it with osm2pgsql, adds some useful indexes, and then
>> removes Eire. Thereafter I can run SQL queries across the whole database to
>> get 'UK-wide' results.
>>
>> I think that this would be useful for people on hackdays and the like and
>> would be a good service for OSMUK to provide, so have just added a new
>> github repository https://github.com/osm-uk/osmuk2pgsql
>>
>> Friendly-worded Issues are welcome, as are code contributions. I'd like
>> to put it on a Docker environment so that it works quickly-and-easily on
>> Windows, Linux, Mac, whatever.
>>
>> Comments? Thoughts?
>>
>> Regards,
>>  Jez
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Re: [Talk-GB] "OSMUK-in-a-box"

[Jez Nicholson]

Excellent. Not a new idea then.

https://alexurquhart.com/post/set-up-postgis-with-docker/ looks like a
reasonable summary of what Docker is and why.

It being the whole of the UK, the download and create takes a while. I will
be giving the choice of a smaller area, e.g. Greater Manchester.

I'd like to include some sample SQL queries to help people get started.
Help here would be useful.

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020, 13:17 Derry Hamilton,  wrote:

> Hi Tony,
> I did something similar a while back at
> https://github.com/rasilon/osm_database so that might help you get
> started?
>
> Cheers,
> Derry
>
> On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 13:10, Tony OSM  wrote:
>
>> Absolutely Fabulous!
>>
>> Not done Docker but I'll start learning how to get it on those
>> environments.
>>
>> I'll try to support by QA and writing instructions as to how to get it
>> live.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> TonyS999
>> On 06/02/2020 12:29, Jez Nicholson wrote:
>>
>> I come from a database background, and when a question isn't easily
>> answered with Taginfo or Overpass Turbo I jump to my trusty local postgres
>> database of UK data. I have a script that downloads the British Isles from
>> Geofabrik, loads it with osm2pgsql, adds some useful indexes, and then
>> removes Eire. Thereafter I can run SQL queries across the whole database to
>> get 'UK-wide' results.
>>
>> I think that this would be useful for people on hackdays and the like and
>> would be a good service for OSMUK to provide, so have just added a new
>> github repository https://github.com/osm-uk/osmuk2pgsql
>>
>> Friendly-worded Issues are welcome, as are code contributions. I'd like
>> to put it on a Docker environment so that it works quickly-and-easily on
>> Windows, Linux, Mac, whatever.
>>
>> Comments? Thoughts?
>>
>> Regards,
>>  Jez
>>
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[Talk-GB] "OSMUK-in-a-box"

[Jez Nicholson]

I come from a database background, and when a question isn't easily
answered with Taginfo or Overpass Turbo I jump to my trusty local postgres
database of UK data. I have a script that downloads the British Isles from
Geofabrik, loads it with osm2pgsql, adds some useful indexes, and then
removes Eire. Thereafter I can run SQL queries across the whole database to
get 'UK-wide' results.

I think that this would be useful for people on hackdays and the like and
would be a good service for OSMUK to provide, so have just added a new
github repository https://github.com/osm-uk/osmuk2pgsql

Friendly-worded Issues are welcome, as are code contributions. I'd like to
put it on a Docker environment so that it works quickly-and-easily on
Windows, Linux, Mac, whatever.

Comments? Thoughts?

Regards,
 Jez
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Re: [Talk-GB] Still too many universities in Cambridge

[Jez Nicholson]

Nice work Jerry. I've touted Universities as a Quarterly Project as I
believe that a number of them use and contribute to OSM...and those that
don't, should. Maybe it can gain traction for next quarter...OSMUK could be
used as a means to introduce ourselves officially to any university that
doesn't know about OSM, but Cambridge are long-time contributors.

Remember to add information to
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/University_of_Cambridge

Meanwhile, the conversation has also jumped to the Tagging list and it
would be good to keep an eye on them.

Regards,
 Jez

On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 10:21 AM SK53  wrote:

> Funnily enough this long-standing issue came up at our pub meeting last
> month. Although my reaction has always been to let sleeping dogs lie, this
> was clearly not the consensus.
>
> I've sent a message to University of Cambridge Information Services who
> run the map.cam.ac.uk site which consumes the OSM data, to warn them that
> a change is impending. It's probably worth holding off for a week or so to
> allow them to assess any impact on their map. Incidentally, knowing a
> specific contact point would help as university IT departments can be big
> beasts these days. It does show that having a good contact point is always
> a good idea for directed edits when data is in use.
>
> As others have said there is a lot of inconsistency: particular with
> former houses taken into University or College ownership which sometimes
> get building=house/semi and other times building=university. There are
> other college buildings of this type which are not hit by
> amenity=university at all.
>
> Other general points I noticed relating to  inconsistency/issues (largely
> arising because Cambridge got mapped earlier than many places or it just
> has a lot of things which are otherwise rare):
>
>- Theological Colleges are loosely associated with the university, and
>are equally loosely amenity=university in their own right. I don't know if
>we have a regular way of tagging non-degree awarding religious training
>centres. These are something of an Oxbridge speciality. I see the London
>Institute of Theology is tagged
> as a college. Years ago
>I mapped Coleg Trefecca as a conference centre, but used old_ tags to
>indicate it's historical role as a college training people for the
>ministry. Fortunately some of the odder places
> of former
>times have similarly changed their roles.
>- Sports facilities (especially isolated playing fields and
>boathouses) are just tagged with a ref and operator. Pavilions are often
>tagged building=university, as is the sports centre.
>- Cambridge colleges are independent corporations in their own right,
>so probably should have separate amenity=university relations (although the
>world is unlikely to end if not). They mostly form discrete campuses.
>Isolated parts are named separately so just replacing these with a relation
>doesn't work. North Court, Emma is one such example. There are similarly
>very well known parts of the university with their own widely used names:
>Downing Site, New Museums, West Cambridge etc. This is true of most
>universities now that many are multi-campus. I don't think we have a good
>approach to these: roles in relations, campus_name … are all possibilities.
>(This also applies to schools now that one academy can take over another).
>- There's plenty of (non-public accessible) student accommodation
>which is not mapped as such. I presume this is intentional. Examples the
>Trinity staircase above the bike shop on Jesus Lane, most of Lower Park St
>(Jesus), and Portugal Place,
>-  Multiple buildings mapped as one
>. There are probably
>others, but this one I know. The larger part of the building is the former 
> Cambridgeshire
>County Hall
>
> ,
>built around 1910 and Grade II listed, the S part is a 17th century
>house
>
> 
>(formerly 'X' staircase), also Grade II. The two buildings form a single
>unit of student accommodation which presumably reflects the mapping.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, 4 Feb 2020 at 15:15, Dave F via Talk-GB 
> wrote:
>
>> On 04/02/2020 14:28, Dan S wrote:
>> > Hi Dave,
>> >
>> > I agree with what you suggest. Can we be a bit precise though about
>> > what you propose? You're proposing to remove amenity=university from
>> > building=university in Cambridge, and make no other tagging changes?
>>
>> That's correct. I'm going to load the 1050 return by this overpass query
>> into JOSM:
>> [bbox:{{bbox}}];
>> 

Re: [Talk-GB] 2 OSMUK presentations done in the first 2 weeks of 2020

[Jez Nicholson]

Thanks for the kind feedback :) Trying to move on from 'what is OSM' to
'...and why should you care?'. Intention is to encourage new mappers and
reactivate lapsed ones.


On Fri, 17 Jan 2020, 10:54 Philip Barnes,  wrote:

> On Friday, 17 January 2020, Jez Nicholson wrote:
> > Just FYI, I've started off 2020 with a bang by doing 2 OSMUK
> presentations
> > in the first 2 weeks. Firstly to #geomob in London about the FHRS
> Project +
> > OSMUK progress. Secondly to the Shrewsbury Geospatial Forum as an intro
> to
> > OSM and its relevance to them.
> >
> > The next outing is probably Brian Prangle at the Move 2020 Conference in
> > London, Feb.
> >
> > I'm interested in building resources to help with doing presentations,
> > especially the "Intro to OSM". I know that everyone wants to do it their
> > own way, so it needs to be flexible. Harry's slides have been useful and
> > we've got some more too. The current OSMF
> >
> https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2020/01/16/osm-swot-2020-share-your-thoughts/
> > could
> > be useful as a place to find key points to make.
> >
> > I now plan to do some of my day job ;)
> >
> I attended the Shrewsbury Geospatial Forum and have to say Jez's talk was
> excellent, very well put together.
>
> Phil (trigpoint)
> --
> Sent from my Sailfish device
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[Talk-GB] 2 OSMUK presentations done in the first 2 weeks of 2020

[Jez Nicholson]

Just FYI, I've started off 2020 with a bang by doing 2 OSMUK presentations
in the first 2 weeks. Firstly to #geomob in London about the FHRS Project +
OSMUK progress. Secondly to the Shrewsbury Geospatial Forum as an intro to
OSM and its relevance to them.

The next outing is probably Brian Prangle at the Move 2020 Conference in
London, Feb.

I'm interested in building resources to help with doing presentations,
especially the "Intro to OSM". I know that everyone wants to do it their
own way, so it needs to be flexible. Harry's slides have been useful and
we've got some more too. The current OSMF
https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2020/01/16/osm-swot-2020-share-your-thoughts/
could
be useful as a place to find key points to make.

I now plan to do some of my day job ;)
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Re: [Talk-GB] Laura Ashley - looking for tagging consensus

[Jez Nicholson]

You could generalise if the majority of stores fit the standard category,
as individual shops can still be 'interior_decoration' if that is all that
they do. A difficulty could be that editing apps suggest that it is
'incorrect' and needs updating. Some chains make it easier by having a
sub-brand like "Laura Ashley Home", but clearly some do not.

I curse the real world for refusing to fit itself into our categorisation
scheme! :D

On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 8:53 AM Stuart Reynolds <
stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.uk> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I may be wrong, but I believe that there were some home (furniture) shops
> that didn’t sell clothing, and some years ago my family would reliably buy
> wallpaper from Laura Ashley which had the traditional Laura Ashley design
> on it. So that would seem to back up the “interior_decoration” tag. So I
> don’t know that you can necessarily generalise without a survey of each
> store - although I agree that clothing is probably the most likely for most
> cases these days. Not that I’ve been in one for quite some time!
>
> Regards,
> Stuart
>
> On 20 Dec 2019, at 07:25, Jez Nicholson  wrote:
>
> Thanks for consulting. Even if you don't get a huge response (like with
> The Range) it is good to get wider opinion. With The Range I simply didn't
> know so had no response.
>
> A short poll in my household (myself + my wife) concluded: "Laura Ashley
> is a clothing store that happens to also sell furniture"
>
> On Fri, 20 Dec 2019, 00:52 Silent Spike,  wrote:
>
>> I'm a UK based maintainer of the name suggestion index
>> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Name_Suggestion_Index> and would
>> like to get this brand added. Unfortunately it's not so obvious how it
>> should be tagged and I'm not comfortable making a tagging judgement call
>> alone without consulting the UK community.
>>
>> My last thread of this nature for The Range didn't attract many
>> responses, but some input is always better than none and it allowed me to
>> get that brand into the index knowing that if consensus changes then the
>> tagging can easily be updated in OSM.
>>
>> Here's the Laura Ashley website and Wikipedia page for those unaware of
>> this chain:
>> https://www.lauraashley.com/en-gb
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laura_Ashley_plc
>>
>> It looks like currently there are:
>>
>>- 44 shop=clothes
>>- 20 shop=furniture
>>- 15 shop=interior_decoration
>>- 4 shop=houseware
>>- 1 shop=home_furnishing
>>- 1 shop=fabric
>>- 1 shop=fashion
>>
>> This makes sense as it seems that furniture and clothing are the main
>> items sold. The tagging alone seems to suggest `shop=clothing` is favoured
>> more - does this seem reasonable or do you think another tagging is more
>> suitable?
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Re: [Talk-GB] Laura Ashley - looking for tagging consensus

[Jez Nicholson]

Thanks for consulting. Even if you don't get a huge response (like with The
Range) it is good to get wider opinion. With The Range I simply didn't know
so had no response.

A short poll in my household (myself + my wife) concluded: "Laura Ashley is
a clothing store that happens to also sell furniture"

On Fri, 20 Dec 2019, 00:52 Silent Spike,  wrote:

> I'm a UK based maintainer of the name suggestion index
>  and would
> like to get this brand added. Unfortunately it's not so obvious how it
> should be tagged and I'm not comfortable making a tagging judgement call
> alone without consulting the UK community.
>
> My last thread of this nature for The Range didn't attract many responses,
> but some input is always better than none and it allowed me to get that
> brand into the index knowing that if consensus changes then the tagging can
> easily be updated in OSM.
>
> Here's the Laura Ashley website and Wikipedia page for those unaware of
> this chain:
> https://www.lauraashley.com/en-gb
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laura_Ashley_plc
>
> It looks like currently there are:
>
>- 44 shop=clothes
>- 20 shop=furniture
>- 15 shop=interior_decoration
>- 4 shop=houseware
>- 1 shop=home_furnishing
>- 1 shop=fabric
>- 1 shop=fashion
>
> This makes sense as it seems that furniture and clothing are the main
> items sold. The tagging alone seems to suggest `shop=clothing` is favoured
> more - does this seem reasonable or do you think another tagging is more
> suitable?
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Re: [Talk-GB] Disused or empty apartments prior to demolition

[Jez Nicholson]

Change it to building=yes + disused:building=apartments ?...it's still a
building, but the original use is now disused?

- Jez

On Tue, 17 Dec 2019, 14:51 Gareth L,  wrote:

> There are some tower blocks near me which have been emptied of residents
> ahead of eventual demolition of the buildings. They’re not coming back into
> use due to issues with their construction.
> http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/lzDlWfY8iYo2cUVmO1FNmQ/photo They’re
> boarded up to secure them in the interim.
>
> All the guidance I can find on the abandoned or disused tags are to leave
> the building as defined but to use abandoned/disused prefix on the amenity.
>
> These didn’t have an amenity though. They do still exist on the ground,
> but no longer function as apartments.
>
> I’d like to use construction style tagging, but it doesn’t feel quite
> right looking at all examples I’ve found. e.g.
> Building=disused
> Disused=apartments
>
> What have you used for buildings which are awaiting demolition, or are
> undergoing a protracted demolition process but are not amenities?
>
> Gareth
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[Talk-GB] incoming Talent Directory enquiry

[Jez Nicholson]

OSMUK been contacted by a company that want some high volume web mapping
work done.

For those of you who don't know about the Talent Directory, when this
happens someone from the OSMUK Board chats to them on email to help them
firm up their requirements, and to decide whether it could/should be a paid
engagement. We then send a brief 'Invitation To Tender (ITT)' email to the
Talent Directory list and they can email to requester direct and take it
from there.

You can still join the Talent Directory and receive this ITT (probably
tomorrow/Monday). It is open to individuals, small consultancies, larger
companies, whoever.

https://osmuk.org/professional-services/
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Re: [Talk-GB] ITO! World Tools

[Jez Nicholson]

As Jerry says, the key feature was that it compared OS road names to OSM
and highlighted the differences.

The Microsoft Open Data Team recently analysed
streets-with-no-name-but-lots-of-houses which threw up positive hits, and
some potentially false positives of new housing estates which do not have
road names yet and auxiliary service roads.

I'd like to see a new tool be builti'd also like someone to fund it
being built and sustain it either through a grant or donated work.

On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 10:28 AM SK53  wrote:

> The big difference of the old Locator layer from ITO is that it displayed
> the name. The other tool which used OS locator is Robert Scott's OSL
> Musical Chairs .
> Both suffer because OS Locator was last released in 2016.
>
> One way to get potentially missing names is to use OS Open Roads. These
> are big shape files, so its probably best to cut them down using something
> like ogr2ogr, or QGIS. The file can be pulled in as a custom layer in iD,
> Potlatch and as a standard layer in JOSM.
>
> A more elaborate approach is to grab the OSM roads in an area (e.g., with
> an Overpass Turbo query), pull them in to QGIS, buffer by 25 m & use the
> buffered layer to find any roads in OS Open Road which are outside the
> buffered area. This in turn can be saved in a form for use as a custom
> layer in editors. With JOSM & Potlatch 2 (I think) you can use this as the
> basis of a to do list to check each missing road.
>
> Obviously webhosted layers would be more convenient for the average mapper.
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
> On Thu, 28 Nov 2019 at 10:02, Paul Berry  wrote:
>
>> >  Does anyone know the best, or suitable alternative, tool that replaces
>> their analysis tools for the missing road names?
>>
>> http://qa.poole.ch/ is your friend and guide.
>>
>> Regards,
>> *Paul*
>>
>> On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 at 21:12, Guy Collins via Talk-GB <
>> talk-gb@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Apologies if this has already been announced. ITO! World have stopped
>>> supporting their very helpful set of OpenStreetMap tools. Please see the
>>> announcement here:
>>> https://www.itoworld.com/ito-openstreetmap-tools-announcement/
>>>
>>> Does anyone know the best, or suitable alternative, tool that replaces
>>> their analysis tools for the missing road names? Their tools also
>>> highlighted road coverage by local authority which was helpful.
>>>
>>> Guy
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Re: [Talk-GB] OSM-UK misunderstands the British Isles

[Jez Nicholson]

Hi Dave,

There was a long and detailed discussion about where is covered by OSMUK.
The result was United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
+ British Crown Dependencies, which includes the Isle of Man. I believe
that this is also what many people in the OSM community tend to mean when
they say 'UK'.

Like many relationships, it's complicated.

Regards,
 Jez

On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 3:19 PM Dave F via Talk-GB <
talk-gb@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> Here's OSM-UK's page
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_Kingdom#Guidelines
>
> On 13/11/2019 15:08, Dave F via Talk-GB wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > Someone involved with OSM-UK may wish to check the definition of The
> > British Isles:
> > https://www.britannica.com/place/British-Isles
> >
> > They may also wish to have a read of this:
> >
> https://www.gov.im/about-the-government/departments/cabinet-office/external-relations/constitution/
> >
> >
> >
> > What is the size of OSM-UK's membership?
> >
> >
> > Cheers
> > DaveF
> >
> >
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Re: [Talk-GB] Name Suggestion Index

[Jez Nicholson]

Exactamundo! So, how do we decide? It would be overkill to come back to the
list for every single case, but equally, this is a change that affects
current and future features.or am I the only one who is bothered by
this?

On Wed, 6 Nov 2019, 13:27 Paul Berry,  wrote:

> Continuing with the Hotel Chocolat example, it could well be the case that
> most are tagged with shop=confectionery because that was the nearest-fit
> tag that was suggested when each was initially mapped. If the more precise
> tag of shop=chocolate is now available we should make adjustments so that
> iD suggests this as an "upgrade" the next time someone is making an edit in
> or around one of them. Some of their shops offer a cafe/restaurant service
> as well, which should be suggested as a second tier of tags.
>
> Yours chocolatey,
> *Paul*
>
> On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 at 10:14, Jez Nicholson 
> wrote:
>
>> AFAIK 'The Range' has not got an entry. You can enter it in the Tag Text
>> field with/without 'gb' in the Country Code on https://nsi.guide
>>
>> To me, the big question is: how do we adequately consult the community so
>> that we feel that the GB entries are appropriate?
>>
>> Depending on github/dev abilities individuals can either create their own
>> fork/pull request. We also have an OSMUK fork that group work could be done
>> on. Or evidence could be added to
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Retail_chains_in_the_United_Kingdom and
>> Talk-GB can be consulted...a number of things are possible. But ultimately,
>> I would like "the community" to feel that the changes are ours.
>>
>> There are a number of minor decisions involved, e.g. is Hotel Chocolat
>> a shop=confectionery or the newer shop=chocolate. Overpass Turbo says 50
>> the former, 13 the latter. Retail_chains_in_the_United_Kingdom
>> says shop=confectionery so that is what the NSI says.
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 7:38 PM Gareth L  wrote:
>>
>>> Curious as to what is selected for branches of The Range. That was
>>> recently highlighted as being tricky to categorise.
>>>
>>> Gareth
>>>
>>> > On 6 Nov 2019, at 07:51, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) <
>>> robert.whittaker+...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 at 08:24, Jez Nicholson 
>>> wrote:
>>> >> I was wondering how iD (and Vespucci) decides what to offer as brands
>>> when I create a new feature, or when it suggests something like "Ibis looks
>>> like a brand with incomplete tags". The answer is the
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Name_Suggestion_Index (NSI) ...now
>>> detailed on a wiki page that I created.
>>> >>
>>> >> The NSI is a github repository, so updates and editions can be
>>> suggested. This can be done via your own fork or on the OSMUK fork. I'm not
>>> sure what will work best for us yet.
>>> >
>>> > I stumbled across the NSI myself a couple of months ago, while looking
>>> > to add brand tags to shops in my local area though iD. I've been
>>> > collecting a list of missing UK brands (or at least ones that iD
>>> > didn't suggest) and also some potential errors (e.g. where it's
>>> > assumed all shops of a certain brand have a specific shop tag, when in
>>> > reality there can be some variation in the types of outlets). What I
>>> > haven't looked into yet is the mechanics of how to suggest
>>> > adding/correcting entries and what other info is needed for each one.
>>> > (Submitting github issues and pull requests for each individual brand
>>> > seems like a lot of effort on the face of it -- but maybe that's what
>>> > you need to do.)
>>> >
>>> > In case anyone is interested in adding these, or providing details of
>>> > how to do it, here's the list of missing brands that I've collected so
>>> > far (some may have been added since I started collecting):
>>> >
>>> >  Animal (Clothes)
>>> >  Barnado's (charity)
>>> >  Bill's (retaurant)
>>> >  Bon Marché (clothes)
>>> >  Byron (restaurant/burgers)
>>> >  Café Rouge (restaurant)
>>> >  Card Factory (cards)
>>> >  Fred Olsen Travel (travel_agent)
>>> >  Hughes (electrical goods)
>>> >  Johnsons (dry_cleaning)
>>> >  Jones the Bootmaker (shoes)
>>> >  Mr. Shoes (shoes)
>>> >  Muffin Break (Cafe)
>>> >  Scrivens (optician)
>>> >  Timpson (key-cutting /

Re: [Talk-GB] Name Suggestion Index

[Jez Nicholson]

AFAIK 'The Range' has not got an entry. You can enter it in the Tag Text
field with/without 'gb' in the Country Code on https://nsi.guide

To me, the big question is: how do we adequately consult the community so
that we feel that the GB entries are appropriate?

Depending on github/dev abilities individuals can either create their own
fork/pull request. We also have an OSMUK fork that group work could be done
on. Or evidence could be added to
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Retail_chains_in_the_United_Kingdom and
Talk-GB can be consulted...a number of things are possible. But ultimately,
I would like "the community" to feel that the changes are ours.

There are a number of minor decisions involved, e.g. is Hotel Chocolat
a shop=confectionery or the newer shop=chocolate. Overpass Turbo says 50
the former, 13 the latter. Retail_chains_in_the_United_Kingdom
says shop=confectionery so that is what the NSI says.

On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 7:38 PM Gareth L  wrote:

> Curious as to what is selected for branches of The Range. That was
> recently highlighted as being tricky to categorise.
>
> Gareth
>
> > On 6 Nov 2019, at 07:51, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) <
> robert.whittaker+...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 at 08:24, Jez Nicholson 
> wrote:
> >> I was wondering how iD (and Vespucci) decides what to offer as brands
> when I create a new feature, or when it suggests something like "Ibis looks
> like a brand with incomplete tags". The answer is the
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Name_Suggestion_Index (NSI) ...now
> detailed on a wiki page that I created.
> >>
> >> The NSI is a github repository, so updates and editions can be
> suggested. This can be done via your own fork or on the OSMUK fork. I'm not
> sure what will work best for us yet.
> >
> > I stumbled across the NSI myself a couple of months ago, while looking
> > to add brand tags to shops in my local area though iD. I've been
> > collecting a list of missing UK brands (or at least ones that iD
> > didn't suggest) and also some potential errors (e.g. where it's
> > assumed all shops of a certain brand have a specific shop tag, when in
> > reality there can be some variation in the types of outlets). What I
> > haven't looked into yet is the mechanics of how to suggest
> > adding/correcting entries and what other info is needed for each one.
> > (Submitting github issues and pull requests for each individual brand
> > seems like a lot of effort on the face of it -- but maybe that's what
> > you need to do.)
> >
> > In case anyone is interested in adding these, or providing details of
> > how to do it, here's the list of missing brands that I've collected so
> > far (some may have been added since I started collecting):
> >
> >  Animal (Clothes)
> >  Barnado's (charity)
> >  Bill's (retaurant)
> >  Bon Marché (clothes)
> >  Byron (restaurant/burgers)
> >  Café Rouge (restaurant)
> >  Card Factory (cards)
> >  Fred Olsen Travel (travel_agent)
> >  Hughes (electrical goods)
> >  Johnsons (dry_cleaning)
> >  Jones the Bootmaker (shoes)
> >  Mr. Shoes (shoes)
> >  Muffin Break (Cafe)
> >  Scrivens (optician)
> >  Timpson (key-cutting / shoe_repair)
> >  The Perfume Shop (perfumery)
> >  Topman / Topshop (clothes)
> >  TUI (travel_agency)
> >  William H Brown (estate_agent)
> >  YMCA (charity shop)
> >  Yours (clothes)
> >
> > And here are the one I think there are problems with:
> >
> >  Greggs (allow amenity=cafe or shop=bakery or both)
> >  Clintons (should recognise shop=cards as well as shop=gift when
> > suggesting 'upgrades' in iD)
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Robert.
> >
> > --
> > Robert Whittaker
> >
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> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
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[Talk-GB] Name Suggestion Index

[Jez Nicholson]

Continuing my poking around to see what causes what

I was wondering how iD (and Vespucci) decides what to offer as brands when
I create a new feature, or when it suggests something like "Ibis looks like
a brand with incomplete tags". The answer is the
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Name_Suggestion_Index (NSI) ...now
detailed on a wiki page that I created.

The NSI is a github repository, so updates and editions can be suggested.
This can be done via your own fork or on the OSMUK fork. I'm not sure what
will work best for us yet.

The entries are geofenced. A brand tagged for 'gb' will only be displayed
when editing a feature in the UK. https://nsi.guide/ is good for
visualising what would be shown. Type 'gb' into the Country Code field.

I'm doing this to raise awareness because editor presets will strongly
affect how items are tagged. We have access to change what happens.

The https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Retail_chains_in_the_United_Kingdom
page
has a long history and AFAIK is still active. Anyone updating the NSI
should refer to it. However, because the NSI actually powers things it is
becoming the standard. One thing it includes that the NSI does not, is
photographic evidence of the branding.

- Jez
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[Talk-GB] OSM Community Index

[Jez Nicholson]

I noticed that after editing something in iD that it gives you a number of
suggestions as to how you might join in with the community. Got me to
wondering where that information came from. Well, it is in the
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Community_Index (I just created
this wiki page about it..which is why the formatting isn't great) and it
can be updated by mere mortals. In fact, this mere mortal did so and
updated the UK details which have just gone live with the new release of iD.

See also https://openstreetmap.community for a visualisation.

If you think it should say something else/additional/differently then you
could either edit the source  and issue a pull request and/or create an
issue.

if you want to discuss this amongst ourselves first, then it could be done
on the OSMUK fork https://github.com/osm-uk/

- Jez
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Re: [Talk-GB] Zebra crossings being lost in iD - how to respond

[Jez Nicholson]

+1 for a bot edit

are you suggesting to just add crossing_ref=zebra, or to convert
crossing=zebra into highway=crossing + crossing=uncontrolled too?

On Fri, Oct 25, 2019 at 8:23 AM Mateusz Konieczny 
wrote:

>
>
>
> 24 Oct 2019, 22:48 by rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com:
>
> Hi all,
>
> *Before I start this message, I would like to say that I am looking for
> solutions and not wishing to open the flood gates on abuse of the iD
> editors. On the whole they do a great job and even when we disagree it
> should be with respect. Right now on to the message itself:*
>
>
> It seems like the iD editor's "upgrade this" feature is replacing
> crossing=zebra with crossing=marked but NOT adding crossing_ref=zebra to
> the node. If lots of users make use of this "feature" in the UK then we
> stand to lose some valuable data. Taginfo UK says there are 4,710
> crossing=zebra features in the UK.
>
> I have added a comment on to the GitHub issue but no reply yet.
> https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/6962
>
> I would suggest opening a new issue request GB specific - maybe with
> something like
> "I checked sample of 100 crossing tagged this way, error rate is low".
>
> Comments in a closed issue are likely to be lost/unnoticed.
>
> Though with just 5k crossing it seems that bot edit would be preferable if
> - error rate is considered low
> - crossing_ref tagging is acceptable
> - there is no realistic plan to fight with iD over deprecating
> crossing=zebra
> - bot edits are considered as acceptable
>
> Why bot edit is preferable?
> - cooperation with iD developers is not necessary
> - more people can do it (I may do it in case of a clear support)
> - adding complex region-based handling for 5k objects is making
> maintenance of editor
> complex, it is likely to not be done by iD developers
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[Talk-GB] Solar unpopular opinions thread on Twitter

[Jez Nicholson]

Interesting thread for mappers with an interest in solar (last quarterly
project) https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1183398352148484097.html
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Re: [Talk-GB] accurate GPS

[Jez Nicholson]

*Ahem* no offence to Simon, obviouslyhe's just trying to check out a
manufacturer's claims and opening a can of worms in the process.

On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 5:18 PM Dave F via Talk-GB <
talk-gb@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> On 09/10/2019 23:12, Warin wrote:
> >
> > I'd think to get that level of accuracy you 'd need readings over some
> > considerable time... days?
> >
> > Otherwise you get bias from, as you hint, the atmospheric conditions,
> > the satellites in view - their bias, angles ..
> > Unless you have access to correction data, say from a local fixed GPS.
> >
>
> Indeed.
> For Simon to assume he got a single 2cm "accuracy" let alone
> consistently is naive. To believe it usurped OS's reading is silly.
>
> DaveF
>
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