Re: [Talk-it] Fwd: [Osm] importazione dati in OpenStreetMap

[Luca Delucchi]

On Sat, 13 Jun 2020 at 22:42, Andrea Albani  wrote:
>
> Ciao a tutti,
>

ciao,

> scusate il cross posting, ma penso che quanto scritto sia di interesse 
> fondamentale per la comunità OSM prima ancora che per quella wikimedia in cui 
> si sta sviluppando la proposta.
>
> In estrema sintesi il documento citato si propone di incentivare l'import di 
> dati (es. civici) individuando uno o più mapper pagati per eseguire 
> l'attività.
> Se da un lato sarei ben felice di vedere tanti dati open importati (e magari 
> in seguito manutenuti) all'interno di OSM, dall'altro mi ritrovo combattuto 
> nel poter accettare serenamente questa proposta perchè dal mio punto di vista 
> l'equivalenza mappare=soldi non è una cosa sana.
>
> OSM nasce su base volontaria e quanti mi stanno leggendo sanno che è la 
> motivazione ciò che crea qualità nella mappa... a prescindere dal tipo di 
> contributo che ognuno di noi dà alla comunità.
> E' da questo punto che mi sorgono delle domande:
> - Qual'è la motivazione di un mapper pagato ? Come lo si mantiene coinvolto 
> nella "missione" di istruire un processo di import e di seguirlo in tutte le 
> sue complesse fasi ? Quale sarà la motivazione, dopo, di un mapper non pagato 
> ?
>
> Il paid mapping, è vero, è fra noi da tempo, ma un conto è un'azienda che 
> paga mapper per raggiungere i propri obiettivi, un'altra è la rappresentanza 
> della foundation in Italia: mi sembra un unicum a livello globale (forse in 
> ML internazionale ne sapranno qualcosa). Per altro non vorrei che sia la 
> foundation stessa a escludere l'attività di mapping fra i progetti 
> remunerabili. E immagino lo faccia proprio per tutelare la comunità.
>
> - Che qualità avranno i dati importati?
> Come non citare i migliaia di edit dei mapper pagati da Amazon. Il processo è 
> ben delineato e quando gli commenti un changeset pieno di errori si scusano 
> anche, ma l'onere di riparare il danno poi è tutto a carico nostro.
>
> Sono curioso di sapere che ne pensate.
>

io sono sempre stato contrario agli import (portiamo ancora dietro il
segno fatto dall'import dei comuni dell'istat che non sono mai stati
aggiornati), detto questo non ci vedo nulla di male a pagare qualcuno
per fare qualcosa anche se come te ho dei dubbi sulla riuscita totale
di questa attività. se ci sono soldi da spendere avrei preferito
un'attività tipo il "mapper in residenza" perchè più utile a creare
una comunità all'interno di un'area piuttosto che buttare dentro dati
che poi saranno di difficile mantenimento

> Ciao
>


-- 
ciao
Luca

www.lucadelu.org

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Re: [Talk-us] USGS Topo layer for JOSM?

[Mike Thompson]

Dave,

Can you provide the URL so those of us that no longer have access can
manually add it back in?

Thanks,
Mike

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:40 PM Mike Thompson  wrote:

> I use it quite often.  It is good for names of water bodies.  However, I
> just checked now, and it doesn't seem to be listed on the imagery menu any
> more.
>
> Mike
>
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:37 PM Dave Swarthout 
> wrote:
>
>> I'm still seeing it and using it for my mapping chores in Alaska.
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 9:27 AM Tod Fitch  wrote:
>>
>>> Sometime pretty recently the USGS topographic map layer disappeared from
>>> JOSM and I don’t even see it in the available layers to add back in. I
>>> don’t use it a lot, but when I want to verify the direction of flow of a
>>> stream, etc. it comes in very useful.
>>>
>>> Is it just my configuration having a problem or has this layer been
>>> officially removed?
>>>
>>> —Tod
>>> ___
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dave Swarthout
>> Homer, Alaska
>> Chiang Mai, Thailand
>> Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
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Re: [Talk-us] USGS Topo layer for JOSM?

[Mike Thompson]

I use it quite often.  It is good for names of water bodies.  However, I
just checked now, and it doesn't seem to be listed on the imagery menu any
more.

Mike

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:37 PM Dave Swarthout 
wrote:

> I'm still seeing it and using it for my mapping chores in Alaska.
>
> On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 9:27 AM Tod Fitch  wrote:
>
>> Sometime pretty recently the USGS topographic map layer disappeared from
>> JOSM and I don’t even see it in the available layers to add back in. I
>> don’t use it a lot, but when I want to verify the direction of flow of a
>> stream, etc. it comes in very useful.
>>
>> Is it just my configuration having a problem or has this layer been
>> officially removed?
>>
>> —Tod
>> ___
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>> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>>
>
>
> --
> Dave Swarthout
> Homer, Alaska
> Chiang Mai, Thailand
> Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
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Re: [Talk-us] USGS Topo layer for JOSM?

[Dave Swarthout]

I'm still seeing it and using it for my mapping chores in Alaska.

On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 9:27 AM Tod Fitch  wrote:

> Sometime pretty recently the USGS topographic map layer disappeared from
> JOSM and I don’t even see it in the available layers to add back in. I
> don’t use it a lot, but when I want to verify the direction of flow of a
> stream, etc. it comes in very useful.
>
> Is it just my configuration having a problem or has this layer been
> officially removed?
>
> —Tod
> ___
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>


-- 
Dave Swarthout
Homer, Alaska
Chiang Mai, Thailand
Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
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Re: [Talk-us] Rail tagging in US (and North America): operator=* and reporting_marks=*

[Chuck Sanders]

Sorry to be a little slow today, the weather was gorgeous here today
(probably the prettiest day we've had all spring so far!) and I got cabin
fever at lunch. Now I'm in nap mode, and trying to get caught up on all the
excellent discussion that happened when I was soaking up the sun this
afternoon.

Those are gorgeous examples. I wish more of the stuff in my area was even
1/4 that far along, but I think I'm the only one really doing rail work in
my immediate region.

I think one immediate result of this conversation has largely lead me to
conclude that at the very least, my reporting marks in the ref tag
suggestion may have been expedient, but I think does conflict with other
valuable data that does belong there - and there are already appropriate
values for both ref and track_ref. So as we go, I'll just drop that one now
as a bad idea, and maybe look for a solution in the renderer later to make
reporting marks in the proper reporting_marks field display right instead,
as suggested. Thanks!

The second topic of ref vs track_ref was about to be one of my next
questions, and I'm happy to segue right into that if no one else minds. A
brief side note on what has me getting into the weeds on some of these, I'd
done a bit of rudimentary US rail mapping about ten years ago, before
OpenRailwayMap existed, and then got side tracked out of OSM mapping for
what turned out to be a decade (oops). Came back to this wonderful new tag
and map project, but it took me a couple of weeks to figure out how to get
enough of a good understanding of how to apply the scheme in America for me
to make it work. I figured if I was confused and doing all this digging to
understand, maybe I should make contributing to the documentation my first
task while it's fresh in my mind, to make it easier for the next new guy. I
hate to admit it, but seeing several obviously experienced mappers still
working out a mutual understanding of some of the less obvious tags sure
does make me feel a little less embarrassed about my weeks of head
scratching.

That said, here is my impression of how the tags were meant to work so far,
and bearing in mind I'm clearly neither the most experienced mapper or
railroad guy in the conversation (I've always worked around and often with
but not directly for them, and a few of these are a little obscure):

ref: my understanding in the original scheme (German) is that this is more
like a highway route number - it doesn't identify individual tracks without
some further qualifier. The closest analogue to this I've seen in the US is
the Line Segment Number, which was new to me (I'm a bridge guy, and not a
right of way or track guy, and in my region this seems to be universally
assigned now because it's required by FRA, but not really universally used,
and in practice omitted from an awful lot of documentation). In terms of
granularity, a Subdivision or District my be composed of several line
segments, and each of these is likely to have several tracks - i.e. both
main tracks of a two track main have the same segment number. I know this
number appears on newer NS track charts, but I don't have any remotely
recent CSX track charts for comparison, and know these were not on the
older CSX track charts I'm familiar with. Also doesn't appear in employee
timetables for either.

track_ref: this one I find pretty fuzzy on the original use, because I know
too little about the network the scheme was designed for, and I do find the
wiki very vague. What I think this is meant to be is their equivalent to
what started out as the valuation map track number here, which is a unique
identifier for each track on the line, down to the last spur and siding.
This is why I've been asking related follow up questions to Nathan, because
this one seems to carry different colloquial names in different regions, so
I'm looking to figure out if we're indeed talking about the same reference
number, or I'm completely missing the boat. For instance, in a lot of NS
documentation this term has morphed into either siding number or accounting
number, depending on which documentation I'm working on and its age, but
the number itself carries through despite the terminology changes. I do see
these referenced in track charts, but I'm only ever really around mainline
track charts (not a lot of bridges in yards), so I haven't really looked at
a yard chart since I was growing up, and really don't remember. I've never
personally noticed these in timetables.

description: this tag I understand to be the common name of individual
track segments. They are how I see tracks referred to in timetables, and
vary widely from proper names ("Applied Sciences lead") to simple
descriptive ("Yard track 5") to alphanumeric (yard I grew up around had
Tracks 1-8 on the north side of the main, and L01-L06 on the south side,
both of those were how referenced in the timetables).

That's my next main question. Am I understanding that distinction right?
Nathan, do you have any of your 

[Talk-it-lazio] Fwd: [Talk-it] Sondaggio OpenStreetMap Italia

[Lorenzo Mastrogiacomi]

Inoltro su Marche e Lazio.

Ciao
Lorenzo


--- Messaggio inoltrato ---
Da: Anisa Kuci 
Rispondi a: openstreetmap list - italiano 
A: openstreetmap list - italiano 
Oggetto: [Talk-it] Sondaggio OpenStreetMap Italia
Data: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 16:46:24 +0200


  


  
  
Ciao a tutti,



in collaborazione con i coordinatori di OSM Italia abbiamo
  preparato un'indagine con argomenti e attività diverse.

Chiedo gentilmente a tutta la comunità di OSM Italia di compilare
  il
sondaggio in modo da poter creare un'idea degli argomenti
  più importanti su cui lavorare.



Se volete condividerlo nei gruppi regionali, per favore
  segnalatemi dove è stato fatto.



Il sondaggio sarà disponibile per due settimane a partire da oggi
  (fino al 22 giugno).



Fatemi sapere se avete domande!

Buona mappatura,



Anisa





-- Anisa KuciResponsabile OpenStreetMap e WikidataWikimedia Italia
- Associazione per la diffusione della conoscenza liberaVia Bergognone
34 - 20144 MilanoTel. (+39) 02 97677170 | anisa.k...@wikimedia.it |
www.wikimedia.it

DAI ALLA CONOSCENZA LIBERA UN NUOVO NOME. IL TUO.Devolvi il 5x1000 a
Wikimedia Italia:nella tua dichiarazione dei redditi inserisci il
Codice Fiscale 94039910156
  

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Re: [OSM-talk] river - stream

[80hnhtv4agou--- via talk]

ok !

  
>Saturday, June 13, 2020 5:19 PM -05:00 from John D. :
> 
>OK !
>
> 
>>Saturday, June 13, 2020 4:24 PM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via talk < 
>>talk@openstreetmap.org >:
>> 
>>Though if valid tagging results in poor results, then it still can be reported
>>https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD (check whatever it is already reported 
>>before making a new issue)
>> 
>>Jun 6, 2020, 12:28 by talk@openstreetmap.org:
then why is the picture on top of the bridge when bridge is added.
>>> 
>>>You appear to be confusing the ID editor with actual renderings of the map. 
>>>How it appears i iD when in edit mode is irrelevant. We map & tag so 
>>>renderers can produce detailed maps.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>On 06/06/2020 01:57, John D. wrote:
tunnel looks better than bridge, water is still visible under the layer of 
bridge, or area, does not hide water. 
 
tunnel hides water.
 
>Friday, June 5, 2020 8:43 AM -05:00 from Dave F via talk  
> :
> 
>On 05/06/2020 13:45, 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk wrote:
> 
>>
>> when the river stream comes to the bridge can you split and add tunnel ?
> 
>There can't be both a tunnel and bridge. It's one or the other. This
>goes for all scenarios, including roads.
> 
>DaveF
> 
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>> 
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> 
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Re: [Talk-us] Google earth, Google maps

[80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us]

OK !

  
>Saturday, June 13, 2020 4:25 PM -05:00 from Shawn K. Quinn 
>:
> 
>On 6/13/20 09:08, 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us wrote:
>> If you people want me to prove my edit by adding a source, and a
>> person from the data group as an editor,
>>
>> asks me to prove it, and i redo my edit and he does not get back to
>> me, why are you telling me I can not use
>>
>> google as a map source, since all the maps on OSM are old news. like
>> in my local area 7 months old.
>
>From the Google Maps/Earth Additional Terms of Service:
>
>> 2. Prohibited Conduct. Your compliance with this Section 2 is a
>> condition of your license to use Google Maps/Google Earth. When using
>> Google Maps/Google Earth, you may not (or allow those acting on your
>> behalf to):
>[...]
>> e. use Google Maps/Google Earth to create or augment any other
>> mapping-related dataset (including a mapping or navigation dataset,
>> business listings database, mailing list, or telemarketing list) for
>> use in a service that is a substitute for, or a substantially similar
>> service to, Google Maps/Google Earth;
>
>This is one reason why you're not allowed to use it as a source. If you
>need to measure distance, use the measuring tool in JOSM.
>
>--
>Shawn K. Quinn < skqu...@rushpost.com >
>http://www.rantroulette.com
>http://www.skqrecordquest.com
>
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Re: [Talk-it] Aggiornamento civici comune di Fiè allo Sciliar BZ

[Cascafico Giovanni]

Il sab 13 giu 2020, 23:21 Lorenzo Mastrogiacomi  ha
scritto:

> Riesci ad inserire una regola per correggere questo?
> addr:street=Blumauer Straße - Via Prato All' Isarco
>
> preposizione in minuscolo e senza spazio dopo l'apostrofo.
>

Certo, me lo segno. Poi pubblicherò la repository dove ci sono tutte le
operazioni fatte sulle stringhe e replicabili/aggiustabili.

>
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Re: [Talk-us] Rail tagging in US (and North America): operator=* and reporting_marks=*

[Natfoot]

I guess I have been confused all this time.

Nathan P
email: natf...@gmail.com


On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 12:49 PM Clay Smalley  wrote:

> If I'm not mistaken, the examples you've given are instances of
> railway:track_ref=*, not ref=*.
>
> Throwing my two cents in here—that coincides with the way I personally use
> railway:track_ref=*. My understanding is that this uniquely identifies
> tracks within a line, station or yard, and is not synonymous with ref=*
> which seems to be a globally (nationally? operator-wide?) unique identifier.
>
> Here's an example in a station in Germany:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/20889332
>
> In this case, track segment (ref=) 2610 is the (railway:track_ref=) 4th
> out of 8 parallel tracks at Neuss Central. In my experience, tracks in
> North America tend to be numbered extensively this way (Main Track 2, Yard
> Track 57, etc.). I've been filling railway:track_ref=* in with this
> information throughout California and the Northeast. I think ref=* would be
> useful information to fill in though I want to be sure about the definition
> of ref=* and that the source of information is authoritative and freely
> usable.
>
> Looking forward to how this discussion turns out.
>
> -Clay
>
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 12:12 PM Natfoot  wrote:
>
>> Chuck,
>> I think you make some good points in your email.  I would discourage the
>> hang ups on the diffring railroad terminology as it is different by
>> railroad and location.  Coming to a decision on how we are going to tag is
>> more important. I agree that line segments are useful and interested to
>> hear how you would suggest to tag them.
>>
>> Here some examples of the use of the ref=* tag
>> https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?lang=null=39.77267707885666=-104.98619109392166=18=standard
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?lang=null=39.78832735578315=-104.99941036105156=19=standard
>>
>>
>> https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?lang=null=41.860825816587464=-87.63588219881058=18=standard
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Nathan P
>> email: natf...@gmail.com
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:28 AM Chuck Sanders  wrote:
>>
>>> Nathan, thanks - I've been thinking over your email and use case since
>>> coffee this morning, and looking for the right questions to pick your brain
>>> too, so that we can get the documentation right in the NA tagging wiki, and
>>> all of us on the same page.  I also started working up a a NA-specific and
>>> simplified JOSM tagging preset, so that's part of my impetus to really
>>> start getting into the weeds on this - part of my goal of the preset is to
>>> make it easy for all of us to tag consistently on the important tags ... so
>>> a huge part of that is making sure everything I do *agrees* with what
>>> everyone else understands those important tags to be!
>>>
>>> In particular, I can see the value of that BNSF track segment document
>>> you've been working on with others, and completely agree that's also
>>> information that should be captured properly in our metadata as well, I'm
>>> just trying to understand myself whether the ref tag is likely to be the
>>> right tag to do that.
>>>
>>> So far, I'm familiar with at least two different sets of "line numbers"
>>> in the US, and I haven't seen either used consistently before in the US in
>>> the way I understand that ref tag was meant to be used.
>>>
>>> One is the number set that started with the ICC Valuation Map Sections
>>> 100 years ago.  A lot of that data persisted long term, and I still see
>>> references in current documents, especially with NS material (I'm an east
>>> coast guy).  I also still see that referenced and used in a good bit of my
>>> CSXT documentation.  I've seen some of the related numbers also referred to
>>> as accounting numbers, and these do appear in certain current FRA records
>>> as well.
>>>
>>> The second is the "newer" FRA Line Segment numbers.  I believe the way
>>> FRA intended these to be used when they directed the creation of this
>>> system is the closest analogy we have to the German route numbers I was
>>> referring to.  NS does keep them on their track charts, but I haven't seen
>>> them on much CSX documentation.  Interestingly, even though these are meant
>>> to be used in the crossing number inventory forms, I often see this omitted
>>> in NS forms (even ones revised and completed recently), though it's usally
>>> completed in CSX forms.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, as I work as a bridge inspector and designer and not a
>>> track inspector (and have always worked peripherally to the railroads and
>>> not directly for them), I'm not directly working with the same information
>>> you are as a track inspector.  Have these line segment numbers really
>>> finally been adopted as real, working route numbers?
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>> VA
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 12:30 AM Natfoot  wrote:
>>>
 Sorry I saw your email in the ORM list and responded directly.
 I find line segment numbers on track charts and timetables. I mostly

Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Comment orthographier un nombre ordinal

[blef]

28^e ? Mais pour saisir name=28^e dans JOSM (avec e en exposant), je 
sais pas faire. Et je crains que ça perturbe certains outils.

^

Le 13/06/2020 à 23:06, osm.sanspourr...@spamgourmet.com a écrit :


http://www.circaete.net/eric/Lexique%20des%20r%C3%A8gles%20typographiques%20en%20usage%20%C3%A0%20l%27Imprimerie%20nationale.pdf

À afficher 28^e   ça va de soi, comme indiqué page 62 /123.

Avec un clin d’œil page 38 (74) pour l'échelle cartographique.

Petite correspondance : Donat, du coup je vois que l'ONU s'écrit 
Organisation des Nations unies (et pas Organisation des nations unies 
ou Organisation des Nations Unies).


Sinon plus accessible : 
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Conventions_typographiques#Adjectifs_num%C3%A9raux_ordinaux


Le 13/06/2020 à 21:27, Topographe Fou - letopographe...@gmail.com a 
écrit :
Selon les règles typographiques de l'imprimerie nationale (très bon 
bouquin que je recommande) : 28e . Cependant ce n'est pas rare de 
voir 28ème sur des documents officiels ou dans la presse écrite.


LeTopographeFou
*De:* bernard.lefranc...@free.fr
*Envoyé:* 13 juin 2020 7:42 PM
*À:* talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
*Répondre à:* talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
*Objet:* [OSM-talk-fr] Comment orthographier un nombre ordinal


Bonjour,

Je cherche la meilleure façon d'orthographier le "Quai du 28ème 
Bataillon de Chasseurs ".


28ème comme ci-dessus avec accent (ma préférence)
28Eme, 28Ème, 28E
Sans espace, avec espace.

En tout cas la graphie actuelle 28° ma parait la pire.

Qu'en pensez-vous?


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Re: [Talk-us] Rail tagging in US (and North America): operator=* and reporting_marks=*

[stevea]

Russ Nelson writes:
> Yeah, for me the map is much more important than the wiki. Except for 
> Wikipedia's stupid citation rules, all that information > belongs in 
> Wikipedia. Although if it drives more mappers, that's fine. Maybe we should 
> populate the wiki with the
> old_railroad_operator information? That would be a smart. I wish NE2 could 
> have managed to color within the lines.
> He was a very prolific mapper.

As the author of that "in-its-infancy / not-even-alpha" New York/Railroads wiki 
(and dozens of other state-level /Railroads wikis, some of which ARE alpha, and 
a few are beta) I must say I agree whole-heartedly with Russ (and I believe 
most of us) that "map data are much more important than wiki data."  
Additionally, in 11 years of OSM mapping and wiki-writing, I HAVE seen that 
wiki (which admittedly does lag mapping) very much can contribute quite 
positively to developing community, establishing standards (which might 
slightly diverge at a continental-level instead of worldwide, or a state-level 
instead of nationwide, so let's wiki-document those divergences) AND allows an 
at-a-glance "status report" mechanism by color-coding (red-yellow-green) how 
far certain progress is (such as TIGER Review) in tables.

This admittedly does straddle a line of "effort expended vs. positive benefit 
gained" but in another agreement with Russ, "as it DOES seem to drive mappers, 
that's fine."  The wiki isn't always a go-to for would-be rail mappers, but for 
those curious who discover somebody has taken some time to develop a statewide 
rail wiki local to them (even at a pre-alpha level of completion) it can be 
like a guided tour while someone gently holds your hand.  As "all Western 
states" now have at least a preliminary /Railroads wiki, we are well on our way 
to the back-and-forth development of both better rail editing that improves 
TIGER data and developed and updated wiki which reflect the progress in doing 
so:  the "divide (by a state at a time) and conquer (to the extent any single 
editor has the energy to do so!)" strategy of doing this with USA rail really 
works.

I like the potentiality of a typo with "that would be a smart" (start?)  Yes, 
old_railroad_operator tagging and wiki-inclusion is an important consideration 
for rail tagging in the USA, most often for Abandoned rail:  see how 
https://wiki.osm.org/wiki/California/Railroads#Abandoned_lines (for example) 
consistently includes old_railway_operator=* as table Column #2, this seems the 
completely correct thing to do (in the wiki, yes, but in tagging 
old_railway_operator=* in the map as "more important," we agree).

Regarding NE2, I had my interactions with him way-back-when.  He was like the 
Good (he WAS prolific!), the Bad and the Ugly all rolled up into one.  Many 
have said "good riddance" to him being banned, he was certainly an early OSM 
example of "be bold."

My personal experience of feeling like USA rail mapping is overwhelming (it is 
a VAST amount of data) is that "eating the elephant" really can be done one 
bite at a time, where state-level "divide and conquer" is actually doable.  
Yes, California is a gigantic rail state, but over the years, we've been able 
to get the data and the wiki to "later beta."  We can do so in other states, 
too:  data being more important, wiki being secondary, but still important to 
build community, establish maybe-local standards, and offer "status reporting" 
with color-coded tables.

I am bowled over that Nathan Proudfoot says "Researchers utilize OSM as we have 
the most up to date railway map in the country of any data source...".  Wow!

Go OSM,
SteveA
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Re: [Talk-us] Google earth, Google maps

[Shawn K. Quinn]

On 6/13/20 09:08, 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us wrote:
> If you people want me to prove my edit by adding a source, and a
> person from the data group as an editor,
> 
> asks me to prove it, and i redo my edit and he does not get back to
> me, why are you telling me I can not use
> 
> google as a map source, since all the maps on OSM are old news. like
> in my local area 7 months old.

From the Google Maps/Earth Additional Terms of Service:

> 2. Prohibited Conduct. Your compliance with this Section 2 is a
> condition of your license to use Google Maps/Google Earth. When using
> Google Maps/Google Earth, you may not (or allow those acting on your
> behalf to):
[...]
> e. use Google Maps/Google Earth to create or augment any other
> mapping-related dataset (including a mapping or navigation dataset,
> business listings database, mailing list, or telemarketing list) for
> use in a service that is a substitute for, or a substantially similar
> service to, Google Maps/Google Earth;

This is one reason why you're not allowed to use it as a source. If you
need to measure distance, use the measuring tool in JOSM.

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn 
http://www.rantroulette.com
http://www.skqrecordquest.com

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Re: [Talk-it] Aggiornamento civici comune di Fiè allo Sciliar BZ

[Lorenzo Mastrogiacomi]

Il giorno lun, 08/06/2020 alle 18.37 +0200, Maurizio Napolitano ha
scritto:
> Ciao
> intervengo ora dopo parecchio.
> A suo tempo ho collaborato con la Provincia Autonoma di Bolzano al
> progetto opengisdata.eu che ha visto poi l'import massivo dei dati
> come documentato da Lorenzo.
> Il fine del progetto era anche quello di donare i dati alla comunità
> di openstreetmap per poi proseguirne il mantenimento.
> Pertanto il mio suggerimento è quello di attrezzarsi a farlo.
> Se a contattare Lorenzo sono i vigili del fuoco di Fiè allo Scillar,
> direi che la soluzione da adottare sia quella di proporre ai vigili
> del fuoco di farlo magari aiutandoli con un corso di formazione.
> Contatto direttamente gli amici che si sono occupati del progetto.
> Dal mio punto di vista grazie alla ricchezza dei vigili del fuoco
> volontari che si ha in alto adige sarebbe proprio bello e chiuderebbe
> il cerchio di quello che è stato il fine di quell'import.
> My 2 cents
> 

Sì, sarebbe ottimo se si riuscisse a coinvolgere per la manutenzione
qualcuno direttamente interessato.

Grazie
Lorenzo
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Re: [OSM-talk] river - stream

[Mateusz Konieczny via talk]

Though if valid tagging results in poor results, then it still can be reported
https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD (check whatever it is already reported 
before making a new issue)

Jun 6, 2020, 12:28 by talk@openstreetmap.org:

>  >then why is the picture on top of the bridge when bridge isadded.
>  
>  You appear to be confusing the ID editor with actual renderings ofthe 
> map. How it appears i iD when in edit mode is irrelevant. We map& tag so 
> renderers can produce detailed maps. 
>  
>  
>  
> On 06/06/2020 01:57, John D. wrote:
>
>> tunnel looks better than bridge, water is still visible  under the 
>> layer of bridge, or area, does not hide water. 
>>  
>> tunnel hides water.
>>   
>>
>>> Friday, June 5, 2020 8:43 AM -05:00 from  Dave F via talk >>> 
>>>  >>    
>>> On 05/06/2020  13:45, 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk wrote:
>>>    
>>> >
>>>  > when the river stream comes to the bridgecan you 
>>> split and add tunnel ?
>>>
>>> There can't be both a tunnel and bridge. It's one or  the 
>>> other. This
>>>  goes for all scenarios, including roads.
>>>  
>>>  DaveF
>>>  
>>>  ___
>>>  talk mailing list
>>>  >>> talk@openstreetmap.org 
>>>  >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>

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Re: [Talk-it] Aggiornamento civici comune di Fiè allo Sciliar BZ

[Lorenzo Mastrogiacomi]

Il giorno mer, 10/06/2020 alle 21.38 +0200, Lorenzo Mastrogiacomi ha
scritto:
> Il giorno lun, 08/06/2020 alle 14.13 +0200, Cascafico Giovanni ha
> scritto:
> > Ho dato un'occhiata al dataset e mi èpare sia abbstanza ordinato
> > eprecido per impostare un update-import...
> > Ci sono dei piccoli problemi legati ai caratteri: il dataset ha
> > icaratteri tedeschi con l’umlaut (i due puntini sulle vocali
> > perintenderci), ma manca la doppia s tedesca ß, per cui ho fatto
> > unreplace su addr:street.
> > Provate pure la mappa di audit [1] ed eventualmente se non ci
> > sonoproblemi diffusi si fa l'update in OSM.
> > [1] http://audit.osmz.ru/map/3600047232
> 
> Non l'ho ancora guardato bene ma ho notato una cosa:C'erano tanti
> indirizzi senza nome via e riferiti al paese con addr:placema adesso
> sembra che hanno dato il nome a tutte le vie ed anche rinumerato i
> civici.Quindi per questi civici dove viene aggiunto addr:street è
> anche importante togliere l'addr:place allo stesso tempo.
> 
> Lorenzo

Riesci ad inserire una regola per correggere questo?
addr:street=Blumauer Straße - Via Prato All' Isarco

preposizione in minuscolo e senza spazio dopo l'apostrofo.


ciao
Lorenzo


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Comment orthographier un nombre ordinal

[osm . sanspourriel]

http://www.circaete.net/eric/Lexique%20des%20r%C3%A8gles%20typographiques%20en%20usage%20%C3%A0%20l%27Imprimerie%20nationale.pdf

À afficher 28^e   ça va de soi, comme indiqué page 62 /123.

Avec un clin d’œil page 38 (74) pour l'échelle cartographique.

Petite correspondance : Donat, du coup je vois que l'ONU s'écrit
Organisation des Nations unies (et pas Organisation des nations unies ou
Organisation des Nations Unies).

Sinon plus accessible :
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Conventions_typographiques#Adjectifs_num%C3%A9raux_ordinaux

Le 13/06/2020 à 21:27, Topographe Fou - letopographe...@gmail.com a écrit :

Selon les règles typographiques de l'imprimerie nationale (très bon
bouquin que je recommande) : 28e . Cependant ce n'est pas rare de voir
28ème sur des documents officiels ou dans la presse écrite.

LeTopographeFou
*De:* bernard.lefranc...@free.fr
*Envoyé:* 13 juin 2020 7:42 PM
*À:* talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
*Répondre à:* talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
*Objet:* [OSM-talk-fr] Comment orthographier un nombre ordinal


Bonjour,

Je cherche la meilleure façon d'orthographier le "Quai du 28ème
Bataillon de Chasseurs ".

28ème comme ci-dessus avec accent (ma préférence)
28Eme, 28Ème, 28E
Sans espace, avec espace.

En tout cas la graphie actuelle 28° ma parait la pire.

Qu'en pensez-vous?


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Re: [OSM-talk] Could/should editors detect/disallow huge changeset bboxes?

[Bryce Cogswell via talk]

> On Jun 13, 2020, at 3:42 AM, Simon Poole  wrote:
> 
> And all this because of a API defect (because there is just one bounding
> box per changeset instead of a list)?

This hints at a reasonable and not terribly difficult solution, which is for 
the editor to (optionally and automatically) split a single changeset into a 
sequence of changesets each with their own bbox. Maybe with an extra changeset 
tag that ties them together. 



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Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Google earth, Google maps

[80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us]

OK !

  
>Saturday, June 13, 2020 3:56 PM -05:00 from Mike Thompson 
>:
> 
>   
>On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 11:20 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us < 
>talk-us@openstreetmap.org > wrote:
>>
>> I am not copying any thing, just looking at a satellite view from google .
>>  
>> it was a ruler.
>This isn't really about OSM, it is about the Google Maps Terms of Service, 
>which by using Google Maps, you agree to abide by.  This states in part: "you 
>may not ...use Google Maps/Google Earth to create or augment any other 
>mapping-related dataset..." This would include the ruler I would think as well 
>as "looking at a satellite view."
>  
 
 
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] Google earth, Google maps

[80hnhtv4agou--- via talk]

OK !

  
>Saturday, June 13, 2020 3:56 PM -05:00 from Mike Thompson 
>:
> 
>   
>On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 11:20 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us < 
>talk...@openstreetmap.org > wrote:
>>
>> I am not copying any thing, just looking at a satellite view from google .
>>  
>> it was a ruler.
>This isn't really about OSM, it is about the Google Maps Terms of Service, 
>which by using Google Maps, you agree to abide by.  This states in part: "you 
>may not ...use Google Maps/Google Earth to create or augment any other 
>mapping-related dataset..." This would include the ruler I would think as well 
>as "looking at a satellite view."
>  
 
 
 
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Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Google earth, Google maps

[Mike Thompson]

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 11:20 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us <
talk-us@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
> I am not copying any thing, just looking at a satellite view from google
.
>
> it was a ruler.
This isn't really about OSM, it is about the Google Maps Terms of Service,
which by using Google Maps, you agree to abide by.  This states in part:
"you may not ...use Google Maps/Google Earth to create or augment any other
mapping-related dataset..." This would include the ruler I would think as
well as "looking at a satellite view."
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] Google earth, Google maps

[Mike Thompson]

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 11:20 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us <
talk...@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
> I am not copying any thing, just looking at a satellite view from google
.
>
> it was a ruler.
This isn't really about OSM, it is about the Google Maps Terms of Service,
which by using Google Maps, you agree to abide by.  This states in part:
"you may not ...use Google Maps/Google Earth to create or augment any other
mapping-related dataset..." This would include the ruler I would think as
well as "looking at a satellite view."
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Re: [OSM-talk] river - stream

[80hnhtv4agou--- via talk]

i did not write the e-mail program,
 
but it looks like your talking about (reply all) not (reply).
  
>Saturday, June 13, 2020 2:28 PM -05:00 from Dave F via talk 
>:
> 
>Could you please reply to the forum list not just the sender. I assume you're 
>the OP. Difficult to tell when you use different email addresses.
>
>>then why is the picture on top of the bridge when bridge is added.
>
>You appear to be confusing the ID editor with actual renderings of the map. 
>How it appears i iD when in edit mode is irrelevant. We map & tag so renderers 
>can produce detailed maps.
>
> 
>On 06/06/2020 01:57, John D. wrote:
>>tunnel looks better than bridge, water is still visible under the layer of 
>>bridge, or area, does not hide water. 
>> 
>>tunnel hides water.
>> 
>>>Friday, June 5, 2020 8:43 AM -05:00 from Dave F via talk  
>>> :
>>>  
>>>On 05/06/2020 13:45, 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk wrote:
>>> 

 when the river stream comes to the bridge can you split and add tunnel ?
>>>There can't be both a tunnel and bridge. It's one or the other. This
>>>goes for all scenarios, including roads.
>>>
>>>DaveF
>>>
>>>___
>>>talk mailing list
>>>talk@openstreetmap.org
>>>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>___
>talk mailing list
>talk@openstreetmap.org
>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk 
 
 
 
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[Talk-it] Fwd: [Osm] importazione dati in OpenStreetMap

[Andrea Albani]

Ciao a tutti,

scusate il cross posting, ma penso che quanto scritto sia di interesse
fondamentale per la comunità OSM prima ancora che per quella wikimedia in
cui si sta sviluppando la proposta.

In estrema sintesi il documento citato si propone di incentivare l'import
di dati (es. civici) individuando uno o più mapper pagati per eseguire
l'attività.
Se da un lato sarei ben felice di vedere tanti dati open importati (e
magari in seguito manutenuti) all'interno di OSM, dall'altro mi ritrovo
combattuto nel poter accettare serenamente questa proposta perchè dal mio
punto di vista l'equivalenza mappare=soldi non è una cosa sana.

OSM nasce su base volontaria e quanti mi stanno leggendo sanno che è la
motivazione ciò che crea qualità nella mappa... a prescindere dal tipo di
contributo che ognuno di noi dà alla comunità.
E' da questo punto che mi sorgono delle domande:
- Qual'è la motivazione di un mapper pagato ? Come lo si mantiene coinvolto
nella "missione" di istruire un processo di import e di seguirlo in tutte
le sue complesse fasi ? Quale sarà la motivazione, dopo, di un mapper non
pagato ?

Il paid mapping, è vero, è fra noi da tempo, ma un conto è un'azienda che
paga mapper per raggiungere i propri obiettivi, un'altra è la
rappresentanza della foundation in Italia: mi sembra un unicum a livello
globale (forse in ML internazionale ne sapranno qualcosa). Per altro non
vorrei che sia la foundation stessa a escludere l'attività di mapping fra i
progetti remunerabili. E immagino lo faccia proprio per tutelare la
comunità.

- Che qualità avranno i dati importati?
Come non citare i migliaia di edit dei mapper pagati da Amazon. Il processo
è ben delineato e quando gli commenti un changeset pieno di errori si
scusano anche, ma l'onere di riparare il danno poi è tutto a carico nostro.

Sono curioso di sapere che ne pensate.

Ciao


-- Forwarded message -
Da: Laurentius 
Date: sab 13 giu 2020 alle ore 17:58
Subject: [Osm] importazione dati in OpenStreetMap
To: 


Come ho già avuto modo di parlarne con alcuni di voi, sto proponendo al
direttivo un progetto di importazione dati in OpenStreetMap.

Esistono diversi set di dati aperti in circolazione, alcuni dei quali
rilasciati proprio grazie al lavoro dei mappatori o dell'associazione.
In alcuni casi si tratta di dati molto importanti: penso in particolare
ai numeri civici, perché, alla fine, sapere dove si trova un certo
indirizzo è una funzione fondamentale di una mappa, e su questo
OpenStreetMap arranca ancora.

Purtroppo, la nostra capacità di portare questi dati dentro
OpenStreetMap non è stata al pari della capacità di ottenere rilasci.
Vorrei quindi dare una spinta alle attività, con questo progetto:
<
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VN8LgHwco3LqYXnLrlduBrv2tEN-4TRYRjan2M_X6Sc/edit
>

Cosa ne pensate? Sto per presentarlo ufficialmente, perché la scadenza
è vicina, ma siamo ancora in tempo per fare modifiche.

Lorenzo

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Re: [OSM-talk] Could/should editors detect/disallow huge changeset bboxes?

[Alan Mackie]

I have no problem with big bounding boxes that result from editing large
objects. I get annoyed by the ones where somebody added twontiny houses on
opposite sides of the world.

On Sat, 13 Jun 2020, 20:40 Mark Wagner,  wrote:

> On Sat, 13 Jun 2020 08:03:11 +0200
> Florian Lohoff  wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 11:19:46AM -0400, James wrote:
> > > No they shouldn't, mapping roads in northern Canada, your bbox can
> > > become quite large quickly as mapping logging roads/dirt roads is
> > > quick and easy, but span over multiple kms
> >
> > The point is that the line/way of that road should also not span tens
> > of kms. You should break that up every couple of kilometers.
> >
> > Otherwise this is prone to break one day or the other. And its simply
> > inefficient. Every time you touch that road you invalidate hundrets
> > of tiles.
>
> Come out to the rural United States sometime.  It's not unreasonable
> for a road to span tens of kilometers between intersections.
>
> (And a one-square-kilometer limit on landuse is also unreasonable: the
> most common farm shape is a circle one mile in diameter.  The
> second-most-common is a square one mile on a side.)
>
> --
> Mark
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Comment orthographier un nombre ordinal

[phyks]

À compléter avec la charte de toponymie de l'IGN également :

http://www.ign.fr/sites/all/files/charte_toponymie_ign.pdf

Souvent non respecté sur le terrain ceci dit, et le terrain prime...

Le 13 juin 2020 21:42:39 UTC+02:00, LeTopographeFou  
a écrit :
>Pour être plus précis deux extraits de ce lexique (dernière édition, 
>celle de 2002) :
>
>  * Abréviation des nombres ordinaux : on abrégera première, deuxième,
>   troisième... : 1re, 2e, 3e, et non 1ère, 2me ou 3ème... [Note : avec
>'re' et 'e' en exposant, difficile à retranscrire dans un mail]
>  * Il convient de rappeler que 1°, 2°, 3°... sont les abréviations de
>primo, secundo, tertio..., le signe supérieur étant un o et non un
>zéro.
>
>Cette règle de l'imprimerie nationale ne suffisant pas pour dire que 
>28ème soit une faute d'orthographe ;o) .
>
>LeTopographeFou
>
>Le 13/06/2020 à 21:27, Topographe Fou a écrit :
>> Selon les règles typographiques de l'imprimerie nationale (très bon 
>> bouquin que je recommande) : 28e . Cependant ce n'est pas rare de
>voir 
>> 28ème sur des documents officiels ou dans la presse écrite.
>>
>> LeTopographeFou
>> *De:* bernard.lefranc...@free.fr
>> *Envoyé:* 13 juin 2020 7:42 PM
>> *À:* talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
>> *Répondre à:* talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
>> *Objet:* [OSM-talk-fr] Comment orthographier un nombre ordinal
>>
>>
>> Bonjour,
>>
>> Je cherche la meilleure façon d'orthographier le "Quai du 28ème 
>> Bataillon de Chasseurs
>".
>>
>> 28ème comme ci-dessus avec accent (ma préférence)
>> 28Eme, 28Ème, 28E
>> Sans espace, avec espace.
>>
>> En tout cas la graphie actuelle 28° ma parait la pire.
>>
>> Qu'en pensez-vous?
>>
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Re: [Talk-us] Rail tagging in US (and North America): operator=* and reporting_marks=*

[Clay Smalley]

If I'm not mistaken, the examples you've given are instances of
railway:track_ref=*, not ref=*.

Throwing my two cents in here—that coincides with the way I personally use
railway:track_ref=*. My understanding is that this uniquely identifies
tracks within a line, station or yard, and is not synonymous with ref=*
which seems to be a globally (nationally? operator-wide?) unique identifier.

Here's an example in a station in Germany:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/20889332

In this case, track segment (ref=) 2610 is the (railway:track_ref=) 4th out
of 8 parallel tracks at Neuss Central. In my experience, tracks in North
America tend to be numbered extensively this way (Main Track 2, Yard Track
57, etc.). I've been filling railway:track_ref=* in with this information
throughout California and the Northeast. I think ref=* would be useful
information to fill in though I want to be sure about the definition of
ref=* and that the source of information is authoritative and freely usable.

Looking forward to how this discussion turns out.

-Clay

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 12:12 PM Natfoot  wrote:

> Chuck,
> I think you make some good points in your email.  I would discourage the
> hang ups on the diffring railroad terminology as it is different by
> railroad and location.  Coming to a decision on how we are going to tag is
> more important. I agree that line segments are useful and interested to
> hear how you would suggest to tag them.
>
> Here some examples of the use of the ref=* tag
> https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?lang=null=39.77267707885666=-104.98619109392166=18=standard
>
>
>
> https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?lang=null=39.78832735578315=-104.99941036105156=19=standard
>
>
> https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?lang=null=41.860825816587464=-87.63588219881058=18=standard
>
>
> Regards,
> Nathan P
> email: natf...@gmail.com
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:28 AM Chuck Sanders  wrote:
>
>> Nathan, thanks - I've been thinking over your email and use case since
>> coffee this morning, and looking for the right questions to pick your brain
>> too, so that we can get the documentation right in the NA tagging wiki, and
>> all of us on the same page.  I also started working up a a NA-specific and
>> simplified JOSM tagging preset, so that's part of my impetus to really
>> start getting into the weeds on this - part of my goal of the preset is to
>> make it easy for all of us to tag consistently on the important tags ... so
>> a huge part of that is making sure everything I do *agrees* with what
>> everyone else understands those important tags to be!
>>
>> In particular, I can see the value of that BNSF track segment document
>> you've been working on with others, and completely agree that's also
>> information that should be captured properly in our metadata as well, I'm
>> just trying to understand myself whether the ref tag is likely to be the
>> right tag to do that.
>>
>> So far, I'm familiar with at least two different sets of "line numbers"
>> in the US, and I haven't seen either used consistently before in the US in
>> the way I understand that ref tag was meant to be used.
>>
>> One is the number set that started with the ICC Valuation Map Sections
>> 100 years ago.  A lot of that data persisted long term, and I still see
>> references in current documents, especially with NS material (I'm an east
>> coast guy).  I also still see that referenced and used in a good bit of my
>> CSXT documentation.  I've seen some of the related numbers also referred to
>> as accounting numbers, and these do appear in certain current FRA records
>> as well.
>>
>> The second is the "newer" FRA Line Segment numbers.  I believe the way
>> FRA intended these to be used when they directed the creation of this
>> system is the closest analogy we have to the German route numbers I was
>> referring to.  NS does keep them on their track charts, but I haven't seen
>> them on much CSX documentation.  Interestingly, even though these are meant
>> to be used in the crossing number inventory forms, I often see this omitted
>> in NS forms (even ones revised and completed recently), though it's usally
>> completed in CSX forms.
>>
>> Unfortunately, as I work as a bridge inspector and designer and not a
>> track inspector (and have always worked peripherally to the railroads and
>> not directly for them), I'm not directly working with the same information
>> you are as a track inspector.  Have these line segment numbers really
>> finally been adopted as real, working route numbers?
>>
>> Chuck
>> VA
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 12:30 AM Natfoot  wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry I saw your email in the ORM list and responded directly.
>>> I find line segment numbers on track charts and timetables. I mostly
>>> work with lines that have left BNSF or its predecessors so I have
>>> line segments that were assigned by those railroads.  Here is a great list
>>> of line segments of the BNSF/BN/GN/NP Etc.
>>> .
>>> 

Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Comment orthographier un nombre ordinal

[LeTopographeFou]

Pour être plus précis deux extraits de ce lexique (dernière édition, 
celle de 2002) :


 * Abréviation des nombres ordinaux : on abrégera première, deuxième,
   troisième... : 1re, 2e, 3e, et non 1ère, 2me ou 3ème... [Note : avec
   're' et 'e' en exposant, difficile à retranscrire dans un mail]
 * Il convient de rappeler que 1°, 2°, 3°... sont les abréviations de
   primo, secundo, tertio..., le signe supérieur étant un o et non un zéro.

Cette règle de l'imprimerie nationale ne suffisant pas pour dire que 
28ème soit une faute d'orthographe ;o) .


LeTopographeFou

Le 13/06/2020 à 21:27, Topographe Fou a écrit :
Selon les règles typographiques de l'imprimerie nationale (très bon 
bouquin que je recommande) : 28e . Cependant ce n'est pas rare de voir 
28ème sur des documents officiels ou dans la presse écrite.


LeTopographeFou
*De:* bernard.lefranc...@free.fr
*Envoyé:* 13 juin 2020 7:42 PM
*À:* talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
*Répondre à:* talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
*Objet:* [OSM-talk-fr] Comment orthographier un nombre ordinal


Bonjour,

Je cherche la meilleure façon d'orthographier le "Quai du 28ème 
Bataillon de Chasseurs ".


28ème comme ci-dessus avec accent (ma préférence)
28Eme, 28Ème, 28E
Sans espace, avec espace.

En tout cas la graphie actuelle 28° ma parait la pire.

Qu'en pensez-vous?

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Comment orthographier un nombre ordinal

[blef]

Le terrain prime... oui, mais curieusement, je n'ai pas déniché les 
plaques de rue.
De plus, les plaques sont le plus souvent rédigées en majuscules, ce qui 
oblige à une transposition pour suivre les conventions adoptées dans OSM.

Bon, d'après les 1ères réactions, 28e semblerait avoir vos faveurs.


Le 13/06/2020 à 20:25, Florimond Berthoux a écrit :

Salut,

Tel que c'est écrit sur le terrain.

Normalement on écrit 28e ou 28ème, pas de majuscule c'est une 
abréviation de vingt-huitième, mais le terrain prime :)

https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/vingt-huiti%C3%A8me

Le sam. 13 juin 2020 à 19:42, blef > a écrit :


Bonjour,

Je cherche la meilleure façon d'orthographier le "Quai du 28ème
Bataillon de Chasseurs ".

28ème comme ci-dessus avec accent (ma préférence)
28Eme, 28Ème, 28E
Sans espace, avec espace.

En tout cas la graphie actuelle 28° ma parait la pire.

Qu'en pensez-vous?

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--
Florimond Berthoux

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Re: [OSM-talk] Could/should editors detect/disallow huge changeset bboxes?

[Mark Wagner]

On Sat, 13 Jun 2020 08:03:11 +0200
Florian Lohoff  wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 11:19:46AM -0400, James wrote:
> > No they shouldn't, mapping roads in northern Canada, your bbox can
> > become quite large quickly as mapping logging roads/dirt roads is
> > quick and easy, but span over multiple kms  
> 
> The point is that the line/way of that road should also not span tens
> of kms. You should break that up every couple of kilometers.
> 
> Otherwise this is prone to break one day or the other. And its simply
> inefficient. Every time you touch that road you invalidate hundrets
> of tiles.

Come out to the rural United States sometime.  It's not unreasonable
for a road to span tens of kilometers between intersections.

(And a one-square-kilometer limit on landuse is also unreasonable: the
most common farm shape is a circle one mile in diameter.  The
second-most-common is a square one mile on a side.)

-- 
Mark

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Re: [OSM-talk] river - stream

[Dave F via talk]

Could you please reply to the forum list not just the sender. I assume 
you're the OP. Difficult to tell when you use different email addresses.


>then why is the picture on top of the bridge when bridge is added.

You appear to be confusing the ID editor with actual renderings of the 
map. How it appears i iD when in edit mode is irrelevant. We map & tag 
so renderers can produce detailed maps.



On 06/06/2020 01:57, John D. wrote:
tunnel looks better than bridge, water is still visible under the 
layer of bridge, or area, does not hide water.

tunnel hides water.

Friday, June 5, 2020 8:43 AM -05:00 from Dave F via talk
:
On 05/06/2020 13:45, 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk wrote:
>
> when the river stream comes to the bridge can you split and add
tunnel ?

There can't be both a tunnel and bridge. It's one or the other. This
goes for all scenarios, including roads.

DaveF

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Comment orthographier un nombre ordinal

[Topographe Fou]

  Selon les règles typographiques de l'imprimerie nationale (très bon bouquin que je recommande) : 28e . Cependant ce n'est pas rare de voir 28ème sur des documents officiels ou dans la presse écrite. LeTopographeFou   De: bernard.lefranc...@free.frEnvoyé: 13 juin 2020 7:42 PMÀ: talk-fr@openstreetmap.orgRépondre à: talk-fr@openstreetmap.orgObjet: [OSM-talk-fr] Comment orthographier un nombre ordinal  Bonjour, 
Je cherche la meilleure façon d'orthographier le "Quai du 28ème
Bataillon de Chasseurs".28ème comme ci-dessus avec accent (ma préférence)
  28Eme, 28Ème, 28E
  Sans espace, avec espace.En tout cas la graphie actuelle 28° ma parait la pire.Qu'en pensez-vous?

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Re: [Talk-us] Rail tagging in US (and North America): operator=* and reporting_marks=*

[Natfoot]

Chuck,
I think you make some good points in your email.  I would discourage the
hang ups on the diffring railroad terminology as it is different by
railroad and location.  Coming to a decision on how we are going to tag is
more important. I agree that line segments are useful and interested to
hear how you would suggest to tag them.

Here some examples of the use of the ref=* tag
https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?lang=null=39.77267707885666=-104.98619109392166=18=standard


https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?lang=null=39.78832735578315=-104.99941036105156=19=standard


https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?lang=null=41.860825816587464=-87.63588219881058=18=standard


Regards,
Nathan P
email: natf...@gmail.com


On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:28 AM Chuck Sanders  wrote:

> Nathan, thanks - I've been thinking over your email and use case since
> coffee this morning, and looking for the right questions to pick your brain
> too, so that we can get the documentation right in the NA tagging wiki, and
> all of us on the same page.  I also started working up a a NA-specific and
> simplified JOSM tagging preset, so that's part of my impetus to really
> start getting into the weeds on this - part of my goal of the preset is to
> make it easy for all of us to tag consistently on the important tags ... so
> a huge part of that is making sure everything I do *agrees* with what
> everyone else understands those important tags to be!
>
> In particular, I can see the value of that BNSF track segment document
> you've been working on with others, and completely agree that's also
> information that should be captured properly in our metadata as well, I'm
> just trying to understand myself whether the ref tag is likely to be the
> right tag to do that.
>
> So far, I'm familiar with at least two different sets of "line numbers" in
> the US, and I haven't seen either used consistently before in the US in the
> way I understand that ref tag was meant to be used.
>
> One is the number set that started with the ICC Valuation Map Sections 100
> years ago.  A lot of that data persisted long term, and I still see
> references in current documents, especially with NS material (I'm an east
> coast guy).  I also still see that referenced and used in a good bit of my
> CSXT documentation.  I've seen some of the related numbers also referred to
> as accounting numbers, and these do appear in certain current FRA records
> as well.
>
> The second is the "newer" FRA Line Segment numbers.  I believe the way FRA
> intended these to be used when they directed the creation of this system is
> the closest analogy we have to the German route numbers I was referring
> to.  NS does keep them on their track charts, but I haven't seen them on
> much CSX documentation.  Interestingly, even though these are meant to be
> used in the crossing number inventory forms, I often see this omitted in NS
> forms (even ones revised and completed recently), though it's usally
> completed in CSX forms.
>
> Unfortunately, as I work as a bridge inspector and designer and not a
> track inspector (and have always worked peripherally to the railroads and
> not directly for them), I'm not directly working with the same information
> you are as a track inspector.  Have these line segment numbers really
> finally been adopted as real, working route numbers?
>
> Chuck
> VA
>
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 12:30 AM Natfoot  wrote:
>
>> Sorry I saw your email in the ORM list and responded directly.
>> I find line segment numbers on track charts and timetables. I mostly work
>> with lines that have left BNSF or its predecessors so I have line segments
>> that were assigned by those railroads.  Here is a great list of
>> line segments of the BNSF/BN/GN/NP Etc.
>> .
>> http://www.nprha.org/NP%20Track%20Segments%20of%20BNSF/BNSF%20Track%20Segments%20Version%2010.pdf
>>
>> I'm on line segments, 403, 405, 408, and 411.
>> And I don't trust the FRA database to be accurate.
>>
>> Nathan P
>> email: natf...@gmail.com
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 8:45 PM Chuck Sanders  wrote:
>>
>>> I'd love any information you can send regarding any sort of route number
>>> in use here like you're discussing. I've worked around the US rail industry
>>> for several decades (federal bridge engineer), and have never heard of such
>>> a thing, so I'm very curious.
>>>
>>> You're not talking about the FRAARCID in the FRA dataset, right?
>>>
>>> And I have to say, while "don't tag for the renderer" is almost always
>>> right, it also doesn't mean that a tag that works well already is
>>> automatically wrong, provided it also doesn't damage the validity of
>>> integrity of your dataset, and is consistent with the data scheme.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 10:38 PM Natfoot  wrote:
>>>
 Chuck,

 Thank You for your time fixing the reporting marks section.

 Railroad Line numbers do exist for railroads in the United States and
 Canada.
 Ref= is for the use of line numbers.  

Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Comment orthographier un nombre ordinal

[Marc Mongenet]

Bonjour,

Les ouvrages de conventions typographiques françaises que je connais
donnent "28ᵉ" (ou "28e" si l'on n'a pas d'exposant).
Je n'ai jamais vu "28ème" dans un ouvrage de référence, même si c'est
très utilisé dans les textes qui ne suivent pas de convention
typographique. Idem pour "28ième".
Je ne crois jamais avoir vu "28Eme" ni "28Ème", quel que soit le texte.
Voir aussi 
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Conventions_typographiques#Adjectifs_num%C3%A9raux_ordinaux

Bonne soirée
Marc Mongenet

Le sam. 13 juin 2020 à 19:42, blef  a écrit :
>
> Bonjour,
>
> Je cherche la meilleure façon d'orthographier le "Quai du 28ème Bataillon de 
> Chasseurs".
>
> 28ème comme ci-dessus avec accent (ma préférence)
> 28Eme, 28Ème, 28E
> Sans espace, avec espace.
>
> En tout cas la graphie actuelle 28° ma parait la pire.
>
> Qu'en pensez-vous?
>
> ___
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Comment orthographier un nombre ordinal

[Florimond Berthoux]

Salut,

Tel que c'est écrit sur le terrain.

Normalement on écrit 28e ou 28ème, pas de majuscule c'est une abréviation
de vingt-huitième, mais le terrain prime :)
https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/vingt-huiti%C3%A8me

Le sam. 13 juin 2020 à 19:42, blef  a écrit :

> Bonjour,
>
> Je cherche la meilleure façon d'orthographier le "Quai du 28ème Bataillon
> de Chasseurs ".
>
> 28ème comme ci-dessus avec accent (ma préférence)
> 28Eme, 28Ème, 28E
> Sans espace, avec espace.
>
> En tout cas la graphie actuelle 28° ma parait la pire.
>
> Qu'en pensez-vous?
> ___
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> Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
>


-- 
Florimond Berthoux
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[OSM-talk-fr] Comment orthographier un nombre ordinal

[Georges Dutreix via Talk-fr]

Comme toi.

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Numéro sans nom de rue : faux positifs dans la validation de JOSM

[osm . sanspourriel]

La précision "pour la France" est importante car certains pays n'ont pas
encore les délimitations des différents échelons administratifs et donc
le is_in est encore utile dans certains pays.

On peut continuer le nettoyage, tell que le nom de rue des points
d'adresses qui sont dans une relation associatedStreet.

Pour avoir viré des références INSEE sur les mairies des départements
59/62, je peux affirmer que le nombre de noms mal tapé est
impressionnant (merci Osmose).

Et j'ai un cas limite :

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/122685881#map=19/50.14744/3.81485




https://www.taisnieres-en-thierache.fr/ confirme que l'adresse est la bonne.

à savoir :
La Place
59550 Taisnières-en-Thiérache

Pas de numéro donc logiquement

add:place=La Place

Et on met La Place en place=square ?
Mais dans ce cas on ne met pas dans une associatedStreet.

Ou on considère au niveau d'Osmose que c'est un faux positif ?

Le 13/06/2020 à 19:25, Yves P. - yves.prat...@gmail.com a écrit :

Il me semble qu'il y a eu du ménage de fait sur les is_in=*

Est-ce que ça vaudrait le coup de faire pareil ?

Un petit coup de requête Overpass dans JOSM (pour la France) et… c'est réglé :)

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[OSM-talk-fr] Comment orthographier un nombre ordinal

[blef]

Bonjour,

Je cherche la meilleure façon d'orthographier le "Quai du 28ème 
Bataillon de Chasseurs ".


28ème comme ci-dessus avec accent (ma préférence)
28Eme, 28Ème, 28E
Sans espace, avec espace.

En tout cas la graphie actuelle 28° ma parait la pire.

Qu'en pensez-vous?

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Numéro sans nom de rue : faux positifs dans la validation de JOSM

[Yves P.]

> Il me semble qu'il y a eu du ménage de fait sur les is_in=*
> 
> Est-ce que ça vaudrait le coup de faire pareil ?
Un petit coup de requête Overpass dans JOSM (pour la France) et… c'est réglé :)

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Re: [OSM-talk] Google earth, Google maps

[80hnhtv4agou--- via talk]

I am not copying any thing, just looking at a satellite view from google . 
 
it was a ruler. 
>Saturday, June 13, 2020 9:40 AM -05:00 from Lester Caine :
> 
>On 13/06/2020 15:08, 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk wrote:
>> why are you telling me I can not use google as a map source
>
>First reason is that Google don't allow copying of their material to
>other services.
>
>But the main reason is that all of the content in OSM is required to be
>free of any copyright restrictions so anything you copy from ANY other
>source, you have to ensure that source is 'old news' i.e. is out of
>copyright. Where possible what appears should be personal observation of
>local locations and not looked up on streetview for example.
>
>--
>Lester Caine - G8HFL
>-
>Contact -  https://lsces.uk/wiki/Contact
>L.S.Caine Electronic Services -  https://lsces.uk
>Model Engineers Digital Workshop -  https://medw.uk
>Rainbow Digital Media -  https://rainbowdigitalmedia.uk 
 
 
 
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Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Google earth, Google maps

[80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us]

I am not copying any thing, just looking at a satellite view from google . 
 
it was a ruler. 
>Saturday, June 13, 2020 9:40 AM -05:00 from Lester Caine :
> 
>On 13/06/2020 15:08, 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk wrote:
>> why are you telling me I can not use google as a map source
>
>First reason is that Google don't allow copying of their material to
>other services.
>
>But the main reason is that all of the content in OSM is required to be
>free of any copyright restrictions so anything you copy from ANY other
>source, you have to ensure that source is 'old news' i.e. is out of
>copyright. Where possible what appears should be personal observation of
>local locations and not looked up on streetview for example.
>
>--
>Lester Caine - G8HFL
>-
>Contact -  https://lsces.uk/wiki/Contact
>L.S.Caine Electronic Services -  https://lsces.uk
>Model Engineers Digital Workshop -  https://medw.uk
>Rainbow Digital Media -  https://rainbowdigitalmedia.uk 
 
 
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Could/should editors detect/disallow huge changeset bboxes?

[80hnhtv4agou--- via talk]

is it just rivers or would that included polygons, river banks, area ?
 
Saturday, June 13, 2020 11:44 AM -05:00 from Joseph Eisenberg 
:
 
I mostly have mapped in parts of Indonesia where there was no data, and the new 
road or river was mapped for the first time.
 
Usually I try to split roads and rivers every ~10 kilometers. 
 
- Joseph Eisenberg
 
On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 8:46 AM Mateusz Konieczny via talk < 
talk@openstreetmap.org > wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>Jun 13, 2020, 08:03 by  f...@zz.de :
>>On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 11:19:46AM -0400, James wrote:
>>>No they shouldn't, mapping roads in northern Canada, your bbox can become
>>>quite large quickly as mapping logging roads/dirt roads is quick and easy,
>>>but span over multiple kms
>> 
>>The point is that the line/way of that road should also not span tens of
>>kms. You should break that up every couple of kilometers.
>Not alway, there are reasonable cases for mapping long roads without such
>splits.
> 
>In many poorly mapped places you can still map 100km of road/river
>in one go, without need for splitting it.
>  ___
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Re: [OSM-talk] Could/should editors detect/disallow huge changeset bboxes?

[80hnhtv4agou--- via talk]

>i did that it was 10 feet than someone says it can not be 10 feet a mile or so 
>down the road and he is right 
> 
>so i changed it but it was 10 feet where i was.
> 
>>Saturday, June 13, 2020 11:44 AM -05:00 from Joseph Eisenberg < 
>>joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com >:
>> 
>>I mostly have mapped in parts of Indonesia where there was no data, and the 
>>new road or river was mapped for the first time.
>> 
>>Usually I try to split roads and rivers every ~10 kilometers. 
>> 
>>- Joseph Eisenberg
>> 
>>On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 8:46 AM Mateusz Konieczny via talk < 
>>talk@openstreetmap.org > wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>Jun 13, 2020, 08:03 by  f...@zz.de :
On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 11:19:46AM -0400, James wrote:
>No they shouldn't, mapping roads in northern Canada, your bbox can become
>quite large quickly as mapping logging roads/dirt roads is quick and easy,
>but span over multiple kms
 
The point is that the line/way of that road should also not span tens of
kms. You should break that up every couple of kilometers.
>>>Not alway, there are reasonable cases for mapping long roads without such
>>>splits.
>>> 
>>>In many poorly mapped places you can still map 100km of road/river
>>>in one go, without need for splitting it.
>>>  ___
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> 
> 
> 
>  
 
 
 
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Re: [Talk-it] [talk-it] pagamento con carta

[Francesco Ansanelli]

Buonasera Volker,

lo stesso avviso viene dato anche per i pagamenti con carta di debito e
criptovalute.
Cripto a parte, "yes" sarebbe credo sempre anche "multi", perché i circuiti
Visa e Mastercard sono i più diffusi in Italia e credo quasi sempre
accettati.
Nel caso in cui fossero anche noti (di solito agli esercenti vengono
forniti degli adesivi da attaccare sulla porta o vicino alla cassa), lo
schema attuale prevede solo la possibilità di indicare "yes", con unica
eccezione su "altri", in questo modo:

payment:visa=yes
payment:mastercard=yes
payment:others=no

L'unica mia perplessità è che non c'è una data di ultimo "check" dei
pagamenti...
Suggerirei, semplicemente, di lasciar perdere l'avviso, quando non è nota
l'informazione.

Buona serata
Francesco

Il sab 13 giu 2020, 17:12 Volker Schmidt  ha scritto:

> Ogni tanto quando faccio un edit (spostamento) che include un esercizio
> dove si può pagare con carta mi salta fuori questo avviso in JOSM perché
> questi esercizi hanno il tag payment:credit_cards=yes:
> "payment:credit_cards=yes is inaccurate. Use separate tags for each
> specific type, e.g. payment:mastercard=yes or payment:visa=yes. (1) "
>
> Ho verificato il wiki
> 
> e trovo, con sorpresa, queste istruzioni:
> payment:credit_cards Generic tag for any credit card This should be
> mainly used when credit cards are *not* accepted. If cards *are*
> accepted, please indicate which by using a more specific key.
> Trovo poco realistico l'idea di elencare in un supermercato o benzinaio
> tutti i tipi di carta che accettano. Con tutta probabilità non lo sanno
> neanche i dipendenti alla cassa.
>
> Vorrei proporre di aggiungere il valore "multi", o qualcosa di simile,
> all'elenco dei possibili valori.
>
> Che ne dite?
>
> Volker
>
>
> 
>  Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
> 
> <#m_-4363174952653443384_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> ___
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>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Could/should editors detect/disallow huge changeset bboxes?

[Joseph Eisenberg]

I mostly have mapped in parts of Indonesia where there was no data, and the
new road or river was mapped for the first time.

Usually I try to split roads and rivers every ~10 kilometers.

- Joseph Eisenberg

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 8:46 AM Mateusz Konieczny via talk <
talk@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

>
>
>
> Jun 13, 2020, 08:03 by f...@zz.de:
>
> On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 11:19:46AM -0400, James wrote:
>
> No they shouldn't, mapping roads in northern Canada, your bbox can become
> quite large quickly as mapping logging roads/dirt roads is quick and easy,
> but span over multiple kms
>
>
> The point is that the line/way of that road should also not span tens of
> kms. You should break that up every couple of kilometers.
>
> Not alway, there are reasonable cases for mapping long roads without such
> splits.
>
> In many poorly mapped places you can still map 100km of road/river
> in one go, without need for splitting it.
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
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Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Google earth, Google maps

[Joseph Eisenberg]

You should check the measurement directly from aerial imagery in iD or
JOSM, or by visiting the location in person and measuring or estimating.

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:24 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us <
talk-us@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> since the complainer removed the source (google map) do i remove the # as
> well ?
>
>
>
> Saturday, June 13, 2020 11:09 AM -05:00 from Mike Thompson <
> miketh...@gmail.com>:
>
>
>
> According to the Google Maps Terms of service, you cannot use it in any
> way to make another map. [0]  I would think that would include using its
> ruler if the purpose of using the ruler is to edit OSM.
>
> [0] 2.d of https://www.google.com/help/terms_maps/
>
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:47 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us <
> talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> > wrote:
>
> because i was asked to change my edit based on my own ruler measurement,
>
> but it was just a ruler on google maps.
>
>
> Saturday, June 13, 2020 10:42 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us
>  >:
>
> If you were not copying Google Maps then why you were using the ruler?
>
> Why using ruler on Google Maps would be even necessary?
>
> Jun 13, 2020, 17:31 by t...@openstreetmap.org
> :
>
> i put them as a source i used a ruler on there map.
>
>
>
> Saturday, June 13, 2020 10:20 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via talk <
> t...@openstreetmap.org >:
>
>
>
>
> Jun 13, 2020, 16:59 by eric.lad...@gmail.com
> :
>
> Yeah, be careful with Google Maps.  It's owned and created by a company
> and if you copy from it and they can prove it, they could sue the OSM
> Foundation into oblivion.  They used to even have their OWN satellites to
> obtain imagery.  That's serious money.
>
> That is not the main problem. Main problem is that it goes our own
> fundamental rules.
> Mappers must not use other maps* even if whoever hold copyright is unable
> to sue for some reason.
>
> And "they can prove it" part may be misleading - you are not allowed to
> copy even if you think that
> you can hide the copying so that noone will notice it.
>
> *that is more complicated, we are must not copyrighted data on
> incompatible licenes -
> but if you are unsure what it means do not use other maps and ask for help
> before doing this
>
>
> Typically, with local edits, I put "Local knowledge" as the source.
> Sounds more highbrow than "my eyeballs".
>
> I usually put survey/memory depending on how recent my data is.
>
> IMO, if somebody is challenging one of your local edits, if they are not
> local also, they should be told as much and sent on their way - UNLESS it's
> something that relates to a mapping standard or best practice.  Then, learn
> from your mistakes and move on.
>
> +1
>
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:32 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us <
> talk-us@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
> this was a tool on the map that measured distance.
>
> Have you copied that map? I am unsure how the distance measuring tool
> relates to "why are you telling me I can not use google as a map source"?
>
>
>
> Saturday, June 13, 2020 9:29 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us <
> talk-us@openstreetmap.org>:
>
> You are not allowed to use Google Maps as source.
>
> Have you used Google Maps to edit OSM?
>
> "since all the maps on OSM are old news like in my local area 7 months
> old."
>
> FYI, world is larger than your local area.
>
>
> Jun 13, 2020, 16:08 by talk-us@openstreetmap.org:
>
> If you people want me to prove my edit by adding a source, and a person
> from the data group as an editor,
>
> asks me to prove it, and i redo my edit and he does not get back to me,
> why are you telling me I can not use
>
> google as a map source, since all the maps on OSM are old news. like in my
> local area 7 months old.
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
>
>
> --
> Eric Ladner
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> t...@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> 

Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] Google earth, Google maps

[Joseph Eisenberg]

You should check the measurement directly from aerial imagery in iD or
JOSM, or by visiting the location in person and measuring or estimating.

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:24 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us <
talk...@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> since the complainer removed the source (google map) do i remove the # as
> well ?
>
>
>
> Saturday, June 13, 2020 11:09 AM -05:00 from Mike Thompson <
> miketh...@gmail.com>:
>
>
>
> According to the Google Maps Terms of service, you cannot use it in any
> way to make another map. [0]  I would think that would include using its
> ruler if the purpose of using the ruler is to edit OSM.
>
> [0] 2.d of https://www.google.com/help/terms_maps/
>
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:47 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us <
> talk...@openstreetmap.org
> > wrote:
>
> because i was asked to change my edit based on my own ruler measurement,
>
> but it was just a ruler on google maps.
>
>
> Saturday, June 13, 2020 10:42 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us
>  >:
>
> If you were not copying Google Maps then why you were using the ruler?
>
> Why using ruler on Google Maps would be even necessary?
>
> Jun 13, 2020, 17:31 by talk@openstreetmap.org
> :
>
> i put them as a source i used a ruler on there map.
>
>
>
> Saturday, June 13, 2020 10:20 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via talk <
> talk@openstreetmap.org >:
>
>
>
>
> Jun 13, 2020, 16:59 by eric.lad...@gmail.com
> :
>
> Yeah, be careful with Google Maps.  It's owned and created by a company
> and if you copy from it and they can prove it, they could sue the OSM
> Foundation into oblivion.  They used to even have their OWN satellites to
> obtain imagery.  That's serious money.
>
> That is not the main problem. Main problem is that it goes our own
> fundamental rules.
> Mappers must not use other maps* even if whoever hold copyright is unable
> to sue for some reason.
>
> And "they can prove it" part may be misleading - you are not allowed to
> copy even if you think that
> you can hide the copying so that noone will notice it.
>
> *that is more complicated, we are must not copyrighted data on
> incompatible licenes -
> but if you are unsure what it means do not use other maps and ask for help
> before doing this
>
>
> Typically, with local edits, I put "Local knowledge" as the source.
> Sounds more highbrow than "my eyeballs".
>
> I usually put survey/memory depending on how recent my data is.
>
> IMO, if somebody is challenging one of your local edits, if they are not
> local also, they should be told as much and sent on their way - UNLESS it's
> something that relates to a mapping standard or best practice.  Then, learn
> from your mistakes and move on.
>
> +1
>
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:32 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us <
> talk...@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
> this was a tool on the map that measured distance.
>
> Have you copied that map? I am unsure how the distance measuring tool
> relates to "why are you telling me I can not use google as a map source"?
>
>
>
> Saturday, June 13, 2020 9:29 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us <
> talk...@openstreetmap.org>:
>
> You are not allowed to use Google Maps as source.
>
> Have you used Google Maps to edit OSM?
>
> "since all the maps on OSM are old news like in my local area 7 months
> old."
>
> FYI, world is larger than your local area.
>
>
> Jun 13, 2020, 16:08 by talk...@openstreetmap.org:
>
> If you people want me to prove my edit by adding a source, and a person
> from the data group as an editor,
>
> asks me to prove it, and i redo my edit and he does not get back to me,
> why are you telling me I can not use
>
> google as a map source, since all the maps on OSM are old news. like in my
> local area 7 months old.
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> talk...@openstreetmap.org 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> talk...@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
>
>
> --
> Eric Ladner
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> talk...@openstreetmap.org 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> talk...@openstreetmap.org
> 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> talk...@openstreetmap.org 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> 

Re: [Talk-us] Rail tagging in US (and North America): operator=* and reporting_marks=*

[Chuck Sanders]

Nathan, thanks - I've been thinking over your email and use case since
coffee this morning, and looking for the right questions to pick your brain
too, so that we can get the documentation right in the NA tagging wiki, and
all of us on the same page.  I also started working up a a NA-specific and
simplified JOSM tagging preset, so that's part of my impetus to really
start getting into the weeds on this - part of my goal of the preset is to
make it easy for all of us to tag consistently on the important tags ... so
a huge part of that is making sure everything I do *agrees* with what
everyone else understands those important tags to be!

In particular, I can see the value of that BNSF track segment document
you've been working on with others, and completely agree that's also
information that should be captured properly in our metadata as well, I'm
just trying to understand myself whether the ref tag is likely to be the
right tag to do that.

So far, I'm familiar with at least two different sets of "line numbers" in
the US, and I haven't seen either used consistently before in the US in the
way I understand that ref tag was meant to be used.

One is the number set that started with the ICC Valuation Map Sections 100
years ago.  A lot of that data persisted long term, and I still see
references in current documents, especially with NS material (I'm an east
coast guy).  I also still see that referenced and used in a good bit of my
CSXT documentation.  I've seen some of the related numbers also referred to
as accounting numbers, and these do appear in certain current FRA records
as well.

The second is the "newer" FRA Line Segment numbers.  I believe the way FRA
intended these to be used when they directed the creation of this system is
the closest analogy we have to the German route numbers I was referring
to.  NS does keep them on their track charts, but I haven't seen them on
much CSX documentation.  Interestingly, even though these are meant to be
used in the crossing number inventory forms, I often see this omitted in NS
forms (even ones revised and completed recently), though it's usally
completed in CSX forms.

Unfortunately, as I work as a bridge inspector and designer and not a track
inspector (and have always worked peripherally to the railroads and not
directly for them), I'm not directly working with the same information you
are as a track inspector.  Have these line segment numbers really finally
been adopted as real, working route numbers?

Chuck
VA

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 12:30 AM Natfoot  wrote:

> Sorry I saw your email in the ORM list and responded directly.
> I find line segment numbers on track charts and timetables. I mostly work
> with lines that have left BNSF or its predecessors so I have line segments
> that were assigned by those railroads.  Here is a great list of
> line segments of the BNSF/BN/GN/NP Etc.
> .
> http://www.nprha.org/NP%20Track%20Segments%20of%20BNSF/BNSF%20Track%20Segments%20Version%2010.pdf
>
> I'm on line segments, 403, 405, 408, and 411.
> And I don't trust the FRA database to be accurate.
>
> Nathan P
> email: natf...@gmail.com
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 8:45 PM Chuck Sanders  wrote:
>
>> I'd love any information you can send regarding any sort of route number
>> in use here like you're discussing. I've worked around the US rail industry
>> for several decades (federal bridge engineer), and have never heard of such
>> a thing, so I'm very curious.
>>
>> You're not talking about the FRAARCID in the FRA dataset, right?
>>
>> And I have to say, while "don't tag for the renderer" is almost always
>> right, it also doesn't mean that a tag that works well already is
>> automatically wrong, provided it also doesn't damage the validity of
>> integrity of your dataset, and is consistent with the data scheme.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Chuck
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 10:38 PM Natfoot  wrote:
>>
>>> Chuck,
>>>
>>> Thank You for your time fixing the reporting marks section.
>>>
>>> Railroad Line numbers do exist for railroads in the United States and
>>> Canada.
>>> Ref= is for the use of line numbers.  I can send you links to line
>>> numbers.  Line numbers were given to a line by the railroad when it was
>>> laid and often lasts it's entire lifetime, without a change. The other way
>>> I see it used is to identify what track number it is: Eg Main 1, or you are
>>> in a yard and there is track 1, 2, 3, etc.  Both of these are examples of
>>> track numbers.
>>>
>>>  I will discourage the changing of in use tags for the soul purpose of
>>> editing for the renderer.  This is a renderer problem and not a problem
>>> with OSM.Here is the wiki about not editing for the renderer
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tagging_for_the_renderer
>>>
>>>  There is a OpenRailwayMap email list.  I was just there chatting about
>>> how Traffic Control is different from Train Protection. I will agree that
>>> ORM under represents the data from North America that is already within the
>>> 

Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] Google earth, Google maps

[80hnhtv4agou--- via talk]

since the complainer removed the source (google map) do i remove the # as well ?

  
>Saturday, June 13, 2020 11:09 AM -05:00 from Mike Thompson 
>:
> 
>According to the Google Maps Terms of service, you cannot use it in any way to 
>make another map. [0]  I would think that would include using its ruler if the 
>purpose of using the ruler is to edit OSM.
> 
>[0] 2.d of  https://www.google.com/help/terms_maps/  
>On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:47 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us < 
>talk...@openstreetmap.org > wrote:
>>because i was asked to change my edit based on my own ruler measurement,
>> 
>>but it was just a ruler on google maps.
>>  
>>>Saturday, June 13, 2020 10:42 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us < 
>>>talk...@openstreetmap.org >:
>>> 
>>>If you were not copying Google Maps then why you were using the ruler?
>>> 
>>>Why using ruler on Google Maps would be even necessary?
>>> 
>>>Jun 13, 2020, 17:31 by  talk@openstreetmap.org :
i put them as a source i used a ruler on there map.
 
 
>Saturday, June 13, 2020 10:20 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via talk < 
>talk@openstreetmap.org >:
> 
> 
> 
> 
>Jun 13, 2020, 16:59 by  eric.lad...@gmail.com :
>>Yeah, be careful with Google Maps.  It's owned and created by a company 
>>and if you copy from it and they can prove it, they could sue the OSM 
>>Foundation into oblivion.  They used to even have their OWN satellites to 
>>obtain imagery.  That's serious money.
>That is not the main problem. Main problem is that it goes our own 
>fundamental rules.
>Mappers must not use other maps* even if whoever hold copyright is unable 
>to sue for some reason.
> 
>And "they can prove it" part may be misleading - you are not allowed to 
>copy even if you think that
>you can hide the copying so that noone will notice it.
> 
>*that is more complicated, we are must not copyrighted data on 
>incompatible licenes -
>but if you are unsure what it means do not use other maps and ask for help 
>before doing this
>> 
>>Typically, with local edits, I put "Local knowledge" as the source.  
>>Sounds more highbrow than "my eyeballs". 
>I usually put survey/memory depending on how recent my data is.
>>IMO, if somebody is challenging one of your local edits, if they are not 
>>local also, they should be told as much and sent on their way - UNLESS 
>>it's something that relates to a mapping standard or best practice.  
>>Then, learn from your mistakes and move on.
>+1
>>On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:32 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us < 
>>talk...@openstreetmap.org > wrote:
>>>this was a tool on the map that measured distance.
>Have you copied that map? I am unsure how the distance measuring tool
>relates to "why are you telling me I can not use google as a map source"?
>>> 
Saturday, June 13, 2020 9:29 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via 
Talk-us < talk...@openstreetmap.org >:
 
You are not allowed to use Google Maps as source.
 
Have you used Google Maps to edit OSM?
 
"since all the maps on OSM are old news like in my local area 7 months 
old."
 
FYI, world is larger than your local area.
 
 
Jun 13, 2020, 16:08 by  talk...@openstreetmap.org :
>If you people want me to prove my edit by adding a source, and a 
>person from the data group as an editor,
> 
>asks me to prove it, and i redo my edit and he does not get back to 
>me, why are you telling me I can not use
> 
>google as a map source, since all the maps on OSM are old news. like 
>in my local area 7 months old.
> 
> 
 
___
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>___
>>>Talk-us mailing list
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>>>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>> 
>> 
>>--
>>Eric Ladner
> 
>___
>talk mailing list
>talk@openstreetmap.org
>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
 
 
 
 
>>> 
>>>___
>>>Talk-us mailing list
>>>talk...@openstreetmap.org
>>>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  ___
>>Talk-us mailing list
>>talk...@openstreetmap.org
>>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>___
>Talk-us mailing list
>talk...@openstreetmap.org
>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us 
 
 
 
 ___
talk mailing list

Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Google earth, Google maps

[80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us]

since the complainer removed the source (google map) do i remove the # as well ?

  
>Saturday, June 13, 2020 11:09 AM -05:00 from Mike Thompson 
>:
> 
>According to the Google Maps Terms of service, you cannot use it in any way to 
>make another map. [0]  I would think that would include using its ruler if the 
>purpose of using the ruler is to edit OSM.
> 
>[0] 2.d of  https://www.google.com/help/terms_maps/  
>On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:47 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us < 
>talk-us@openstreetmap.org > wrote:
>>because i was asked to change my edit based on my own ruler measurement,
>> 
>>but it was just a ruler on google maps.
>>  
>>>Saturday, June 13, 2020 10:42 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us < 
>>>talk-us@openstreetmap.org >:
>>> 
>>>If you were not copying Google Maps then why you were using the ruler?
>>> 
>>>Why using ruler on Google Maps would be even necessary?
>>> 
>>>Jun 13, 2020, 17:31 by  t...@openstreetmap.org :
i put them as a source i used a ruler on there map.
 
 
>Saturday, June 13, 2020 10:20 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via talk < 
>t...@openstreetmap.org >:
> 
> 
> 
> 
>Jun 13, 2020, 16:59 by  eric.lad...@gmail.com :
>>Yeah, be careful with Google Maps.  It's owned and created by a company 
>>and if you copy from it and they can prove it, they could sue the OSM 
>>Foundation into oblivion.  They used to even have their OWN satellites to 
>>obtain imagery.  That's serious money.
>That is not the main problem. Main problem is that it goes our own 
>fundamental rules.
>Mappers must not use other maps* even if whoever hold copyright is unable 
>to sue for some reason.
> 
>And "they can prove it" part may be misleading - you are not allowed to 
>copy even if you think that
>you can hide the copying so that noone will notice it.
> 
>*that is more complicated, we are must not copyrighted data on 
>incompatible licenes -
>but if you are unsure what it means do not use other maps and ask for help 
>before doing this
>> 
>>Typically, with local edits, I put "Local knowledge" as the source.  
>>Sounds more highbrow than "my eyeballs". 
>I usually put survey/memory depending on how recent my data is.
>>IMO, if somebody is challenging one of your local edits, if they are not 
>>local also, they should be told as much and sent on their way - UNLESS 
>>it's something that relates to a mapping standard or best practice.  
>>Then, learn from your mistakes and move on.
>+1
>>On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:32 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us < 
>>talk-us@openstreetmap.org > wrote:
>>>this was a tool on the map that measured distance.
>Have you copied that map? I am unsure how the distance measuring tool
>relates to "why are you telling me I can not use google as a map source"?
>>> 
Saturday, June 13, 2020 9:29 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via 
Talk-us < talk-us@openstreetmap.org >:
 
You are not allowed to use Google Maps as source.
 
Have you used Google Maps to edit OSM?
 
"since all the maps on OSM are old news like in my local area 7 months 
old."
 
FYI, world is larger than your local area.
 
 
Jun 13, 2020, 16:08 by  talk-us@openstreetmap.org :
>If you people want me to prove my edit by adding a source, and a 
>person from the data group as an editor,
> 
>asks me to prove it, and i redo my edit and he does not get back to 
>me, why are you telling me I can not use
> 
>google as a map source, since all the maps on OSM are old news. like 
>in my local area 7 months old.
> 
> 
 
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>___
>>>Talk-us mailing list
>>>Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
>>>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>> 
>> 
>>--
>>Eric Ladner
> 
>___
>talk mailing list
>t...@openstreetmap.org
>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
 
 
 
 
>>> 
>>>___
>>>Talk-us mailing list
>>>Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
>>>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Google earth, Google maps

[Mike Thompson]

According to the Google Maps Terms of service, you cannot use it in any way
to make another map. [0]  I would think that would include using its ruler
if the purpose of using the ruler is to edit OSM.

[0] 2.d of https://www.google.com/help/terms_maps/

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:47 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us <
talk-us@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> because i was asked to change my edit based on my own ruler measurement,
>
> but it was just a ruler on google maps.
>
>
> Saturday, June 13, 2020 10:42 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us
> :
>
> If you were not copying Google Maps then why you were using the ruler?
>
> Why using ruler on Google Maps would be even necessary?
>
> Jun 13, 2020, 17:31 by t...@openstreetmap.org:
>
> i put them as a source i used a ruler on there map.
>
>
>
> Saturday, June 13, 2020 10:20 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via talk <
> t...@openstreetmap.org >:
>
>
>
>
> Jun 13, 2020, 16:59 by eric.lad...@gmail.com:
>
> Yeah, be careful with Google Maps.  It's owned and created by a company
> and if you copy from it and they can prove it, they could sue the OSM
> Foundation into oblivion.  They used to even have their OWN satellites to
> obtain imagery.  That's serious money.
>
> That is not the main problem. Main problem is that it goes our own
> fundamental rules.
> Mappers must not use other maps* even if whoever hold copyright is unable
> to sue for some reason.
>
> And "they can prove it" part may be misleading - you are not allowed to
> copy even if you think that
> you can hide the copying so that noone will notice it.
>
> *that is more complicated, we are must not copyrighted data on
> incompatible licenes -
> but if you are unsure what it means do not use other maps and ask for help
> before doing this
>
>
> Typically, with local edits, I put "Local knowledge" as the source.
> Sounds more highbrow than "my eyeballs".
>
> I usually put survey/memory depending on how recent my data is.
>
> IMO, if somebody is challenging one of your local edits, if they are not
> local also, they should be told as much and sent on their way - UNLESS it's
> something that relates to a mapping standard or best practice.  Then, learn
> from your mistakes and move on.
>
> +1
>
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:32 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us <
> talk-us@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
> this was a tool on the map that measured distance.
>
> Have you copied that map? I am unsure how the distance measuring tool
> relates to "why are you telling me I can not use google as a map source"?
>
>
>
> Saturday, June 13, 2020 9:29 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us <
> talk-us@openstreetmap.org>:
>
> You are not allowed to use Google Maps as source.
>
> Have you used Google Maps to edit OSM?
>
> "since all the maps on OSM are old news like in my local area 7 months
> old."
>
> FYI, world is larger than your local area.
>
>
> Jun 13, 2020, 16:08 by talk-us@openstreetmap.org:
>
> If you people want me to prove my edit by adding a source, and a person
> from the data group as an editor,
>
> asks me to prove it, and i redo my edit and he does not get back to me,
> why are you telling me I can not use
>
> google as a map source, since all the maps on OSM are old news. like in my
> local area 7 months old.
>
>
>
>
> ___
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
>
>
> --
> Eric Ladner
>
>
> ___
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> t...@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] Google earth, Google maps

[James]

also there's a ruler in JOSM

On Sat., Jun. 13, 2020, 11:45 a.m. Mateusz Konieczny via talk, <
talk@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> If you were not copying Google Maps then why you were using the ruler?
>
> Why using ruler on Google Maps would be even necessary?
>
> Jun 13, 2020, 17:31 by talk@openstreetmap.org:
>
> i put them as a source i used a ruler on there map.
>
>
>
> Saturday, June 13, 2020 10:20 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via talk <
> talk@openstreetmap.org>:
>
>
>
>
> Jun 13, 2020, 16:59 by eric.lad...@gmail.com:
>
> Yeah, be careful with Google Maps.  It's owned and created by a company
> and if you copy from it and they can prove it, they could sue the OSM
> Foundation into oblivion.  They used to even have their OWN satellites to
> obtain imagery.  That's serious money.
>
> That is not the main problem. Main problem is that it goes our own
> fundamental rules.
> Mappers must not use other maps* even if whoever hold copyright is unable
> to sue for some reason.
>
> And "they can prove it" part may be misleading - you are not allowed to
> copy even if you think that
> you can hide the copying so that noone will notice it.
>
> *that is more complicated, we are must not copyrighted data on
> incompatible licenes -
> but if you are unsure what it means do not use other maps and ask for help
> before doing this
>
>
> Typically, with local edits, I put "Local knowledge" as the source.
> Sounds more highbrow than "my eyeballs".
>
> I usually put survey/memory depending on how recent my data is.
>
> IMO, if somebody is challenging one of your local edits, if they are not
> local also, they should be told as much and sent on their way - UNLESS it's
> something that relates to a mapping standard or best practice.  Then, learn
> from your mistakes and move on.
>
> +1
>
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:32 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us <
> talk...@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
> this was a tool on the map that measured distance.
>
> Have you copied that map? I am unsure how the distance measuring tool
> relates to "why are you telling me I can not use google as a map source"?
>
>
>
> Saturday, June 13, 2020 9:29 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us <
> talk...@openstreetmap.org>:
>
> You are not allowed to use Google Maps as source.
>
> Have you used Google Maps to edit OSM?
>
> "since all the maps on OSM are old news like in my local area 7 months
> old."
>
> FYI, world is larger than your local area.
>
>
> Jun 13, 2020, 16:08 by talk...@openstreetmap.org:
>
> If you people want me to prove my edit by adding a source, and a person
> from the data group as an editor,
>
> asks me to prove it, and i redo my edit and he does not get back to me,
> why are you telling me I can not use
>
> google as a map source, since all the maps on OSM are old news. like in my
> local area 7 months old.
>
>
>
>
> ___
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> talk...@openstreetmap.org 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
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> talk...@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
>
>
> --
> Eric Ladner
>
>
> ___
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> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
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> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
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Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Google earth, Google maps

[80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us]

because i was asked to change my edit based on my own ruler measurement,
 
but it was just a ruler on google maps.
  
>Saturday, June 13, 2020 10:42 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us 
>:
> 
>If you were not copying Google Maps then why you were using the ruler?
> 
>Why using ruler on Google Maps would be even necessary?
> 
>Jun 13, 2020, 17:31 by t...@openstreetmap.org:
>>i put them as a source i used a ruler on there map.
>> 
>> 
>>>Saturday, June 13, 2020 10:20 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via talk < 
>>>t...@openstreetmap.org >:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>Jun 13, 2020, 16:59 by eric.lad...@gmail.com:
Yeah, be careful with Google Maps.  It's owned and created by a company and 
if you copy from it and they can prove it, they could sue the OSM 
Foundation into oblivion.  They used to even have their OWN satellites to 
obtain imagery.  That's serious money.
>>>That is not the main problem. Main problem is that it goes our own 
>>>fundamental rules.
>>>Mappers must not use other maps* even if whoever hold copyright is unable to 
>>>sue for some reason.
>>> 
>>>And "they can prove it" part may be misleading - you are not allowed to copy 
>>>even if you think that
>>>you can hide the copying so that noone will notice it.
>>> 
>>>*that is more complicated, we are must not copyrighted data on incompatible 
>>>licenes -
>>>but if you are unsure what it means do not use other maps and ask for help 
>>>before doing this
 
Typically, with local edits, I put "Local knowledge" as the source.  Sounds 
more highbrow than "my eyeballs". 
>>>I usually put survey/memory depending on how recent my data is.
IMO, if somebody is challenging one of your local edits, if they are not 
local also, they should be told as much and sent on their way - UNLESS it's 
something that relates to a mapping standard or best practice.  Then, learn 
from your mistakes and move on.
>>>+1
On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:32 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us < 
talk-us@openstreetmap.org > wrote:
>this was a tool on the map that measured distance.
>>>Have you copied that map? I am unsure how the distance measuring tool
>>>relates to "why are you telling me I can not use google as a map source"?
> 
>>Saturday, June 13, 2020 9:29 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us 
>>< talk-us@openstreetmap.org >:
>> 
>>You are not allowed to use Google Maps as source.
>> 
>>Have you used Google Maps to edit OSM?
>> 
>>"since all the maps on OSM are old news like in my local area 7 months 
>>old."
>> 
>>FYI, world is larger than your local area.
>> 
>> 
>>Jun 13, 2020, 16:08 by  talk-us@openstreetmap.org :
>>>If you people want me to prove my edit by adding a source, and a person 
>>>from the data group as an editor,
>>> 
>>>asks me to prove it, and i redo my edit and he does not get back to me, 
>>>why are you telling me I can not use
>>> 
>>>google as a map source, since all the maps on OSM are old news. like in 
>>>my local area 7 months old.
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>>___
>>Talk-us mailing list
>>Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
>>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
> 
> 
> 
> 
>___
>Talk-us mailing list
>Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
 
 
--
Eric Ladner
>>> 
>>>___
>>>talk mailing list
>>>t...@openstreetmap.org
>>>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
>___
>Talk-us mailing list
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>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us 
 
 
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] Google earth, Google maps

[80hnhtv4agou--- via talk]

because i was asked to change my edit based on my own ruler measurement,
 
but it was just a ruler on google maps.
  
>Saturday, June 13, 2020 10:42 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us 
>:
> 
>If you were not copying Google Maps then why you were using the ruler?
> 
>Why using ruler on Google Maps would be even necessary?
> 
>Jun 13, 2020, 17:31 by talk@openstreetmap.org:
>>i put them as a source i used a ruler on there map.
>> 
>> 
>>>Saturday, June 13, 2020 10:20 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via talk < 
>>>talk@openstreetmap.org >:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>Jun 13, 2020, 16:59 by eric.lad...@gmail.com:
Yeah, be careful with Google Maps.  It's owned and created by a company and 
if you copy from it and they can prove it, they could sue the OSM 
Foundation into oblivion.  They used to even have their OWN satellites to 
obtain imagery.  That's serious money.
>>>That is not the main problem. Main problem is that it goes our own 
>>>fundamental rules.
>>>Mappers must not use other maps* even if whoever hold copyright is unable to 
>>>sue for some reason.
>>> 
>>>And "they can prove it" part may be misleading - you are not allowed to copy 
>>>even if you think that
>>>you can hide the copying so that noone will notice it.
>>> 
>>>*that is more complicated, we are must not copyrighted data on incompatible 
>>>licenes -
>>>but if you are unsure what it means do not use other maps and ask for help 
>>>before doing this
 
Typically, with local edits, I put "Local knowledge" as the source.  Sounds 
more highbrow than "my eyeballs". 
>>>I usually put survey/memory depending on how recent my data is.
IMO, if somebody is challenging one of your local edits, if they are not 
local also, they should be told as much and sent on their way - UNLESS it's 
something that relates to a mapping standard or best practice.  Then, learn 
from your mistakes and move on.
>>>+1
On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:32 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us < 
talk...@openstreetmap.org > wrote:
>this was a tool on the map that measured distance.
>>>Have you copied that map? I am unsure how the distance measuring tool
>>>relates to "why are you telling me I can not use google as a map source"?
> 
>>Saturday, June 13, 2020 9:29 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us 
>>< talk...@openstreetmap.org >:
>> 
>>You are not allowed to use Google Maps as source.
>> 
>>Have you used Google Maps to edit OSM?
>> 
>>"since all the maps on OSM are old news like in my local area 7 months 
>>old."
>> 
>>FYI, world is larger than your local area.
>> 
>> 
>>Jun 13, 2020, 16:08 by  talk...@openstreetmap.org :
>>>If you people want me to prove my edit by adding a source, and a person 
>>>from the data group as an editor,
>>> 
>>>asks me to prove it, and i redo my edit and he does not get back to me, 
>>>why are you telling me I can not use
>>> 
>>>google as a map source, since all the maps on OSM are old news. like in 
>>>my local area 7 months old.
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>>___
>>Talk-us mailing list
>>talk...@openstreetmap.org
>>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
> 
> 
> 
> 
>___
>Talk-us mailing list
>talk...@openstreetmap.org
>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
 
 
--
Eric Ladner
>>> 
>>>___
>>>talk mailing list
>>>talk@openstreetmap.org
>>>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
>___
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Re: [OSM-talk] Could/should editors detect/disallow huge changeset bboxes?

[Mateusz Konieczny via talk]

Jun 13, 2020, 08:03 by f...@zz.de:

> On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 11:19:46AM -0400, James wrote:
>
>> No they shouldn't, mapping roads in northern Canada, your bbox can become
>> quite large quickly as mapping logging roads/dirt roads is quick and easy,
>> but span over multiple kms
>>
>
> The point is that the line/way of that road should also not span tens of
> kms. You should break that up every couple of kilometers.
>
Not alway, there are reasonable cases for mapping long roads without such
splits.

In many poorly mapped places you can still map 100km of road/river
in one go, without need for splitting it.

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Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] Google earth, Google maps

[Mateusz Konieczny via talk]

If you were not copying Google Maps then why you were using the ruler?

Why using ruler on Google Maps would be even necessary?

Jun 13, 2020, 17:31 by talk@openstreetmap.org:

> i put them as a source i used a ruler on there map.
>
>  
>
>> Saturday, June 13, 2020 10:20 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via talk 
>> :
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> Jun 13, 2020, 16:59 by eric.lad...@gmail.com:
>>
>>> Yeah, be careful with Google Maps.  It's owned and created by a company and 
>>> if you copy from it and they can prove it, they could sue the OSM 
>>> Foundation into oblivion.  They used to even have their OWN satellites to 
>>> obtain imagery.  That's serious money.
>>>
>> That is not the main problem. Main problem is that it goes our own 
>> fundamental rules.
>> Mappers must not use other maps* even if whoever hold copyright is unable to 
>> sue for some reason.
>>  
>> And "they can prove it" part may be misleading - you are not allowed to copy 
>> even if you think that
>> you can hide the copying so that noone will notice it.
>>  
>> *that is more complicated, we are must not copyrighted data on incompatible 
>> licenes -
>> but if you are unsure what it means do not use other maps and ask for help 
>> before doing this
>>
>>>  
>>> Typically, with local edits, I put "Local knowledge" as the source.  Sounds 
>>> more highbrow than "my eyeballs". 
>>>
>> I usually put survey/memory depending on how recent my data is.
>>
>>> IMO, if somebody is challenging one of your local edits, if they are not 
>>> local also, they should be told as much and sent on their way - UNLESS it's 
>>> something that relates to a mapping standard or best practice.  Then, learn 
>>> from your mistakes and move on.
>>>
>> +1
>>
>>> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:32 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us <>>> 
>>> talk...@openstreetmap.org >>> > wrote:
>>>
 this was a tool on the map that measured distance.

>> Have you copied that map? I am unsure how the distance measuring tool
>> relates to "why are you telling me I can not use google as a map source"?
>>
  

> Saturday, June 13, 2020 9:29 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us 
> <> talk...@openstreetmap.org > >:
>  
> You are not allowed to use Google Maps as source.
>  
> Have you used Google Maps to edit OSM?
>  
> "since all the maps on OSM are old news like in my local area 7 months 
> old."
>  
> FYI, world is larger than your local area.
>  
>  
> Jun 13, 2020, 16:08 by > talk...@openstreetmap.org 
> > :
>
>> If you people want me to prove my edit by adding a source, and a person 
>> from the data group as an editor,
>>  
>> asks me to prove it, and i redo my edit and he does not get back to me, 
>> why are you telling me I can not use
>>  
>> google as a map source, since all the maps on OSM are old news. like in 
>> my local area 7 months old.
>>  
>>  
>>
>  
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> talk...@openstreetmap.org 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
  
  
  
  
 ___
 Talk-us mailing list
 talk...@openstreetmap.org 
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

>>>  
>>>  
>>> --
>>> Eric Ladner
>>>
>>  
>> ___
>> talk mailing list
>> talk@openstreetmap.org 
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>  
>  
>  
>  
>

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[OSM-talk-ie] OSM Ireland Membership

[Heikki Vesanto]

Hi all,

We are very happy to announce that we now have an online membership portal.
Supports signing up and renewal of memberships. More features will be added
over time.

If you are interested in joining the official Irish chapter of
OpenStreetMap, supporting the boards work, and/or voting in the upcoming
AGM (*2**7th June 2020*).

You can join at:
https://www.openstreetmap.ie/membership-account/membership-levels/

Unfortunately we can only take Euro payments over the portal, for bank
transfers/GBP payments you will still have to drop me a line.

Memberships are valid for one calendar year and are:

Ordinary Memberships

€15.00 (or £13.00 for NI)

Concession Membership Rate (unwaged or student)

€5.00 (or £4.00 for NI)

Corporate Membership (by resolution of the board)

€300.00 (or £260.00 for NI)

Any questions or issues please let me know.

Best regards,
Heikki Vesanto

-- 
*Heikki Vesanto*
Board Member / Secretary
OpenStreetMap Ireland CLG
CRO no. 638034
www.openstreetmap.ie
[image: cropped-os...@3x-270x250.png]
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Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Google earth, Google maps

[Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us]

If you were not copying Google Maps then why you were using the ruler?

Why using ruler on Google Maps would be even necessary?

Jun 13, 2020, 17:31 by t...@openstreetmap.org:

> i put them as a source i used a ruler on there map.
>
>  
>
>> Saturday, June 13, 2020 10:20 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via talk 
>> :
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> Jun 13, 2020, 16:59 by eric.lad...@gmail.com:
>>
>>> Yeah, be careful with Google Maps.  It's owned and created by a company and 
>>> if you copy from it and they can prove it, they could sue the OSM 
>>> Foundation into oblivion.  They used to even have their OWN satellites to 
>>> obtain imagery.  That's serious money.
>>>
>> That is not the main problem. Main problem is that it goes our own 
>> fundamental rules.
>> Mappers must not use other maps* even if whoever hold copyright is unable to 
>> sue for some reason.
>>  
>> And "they can prove it" part may be misleading - you are not allowed to copy 
>> even if you think that
>> you can hide the copying so that noone will notice it.
>>  
>> *that is more complicated, we are must not copyrighted data on incompatible 
>> licenes -
>> but if you are unsure what it means do not use other maps and ask for help 
>> before doing this
>>
>>>  
>>> Typically, with local edits, I put "Local knowledge" as the source.  Sounds 
>>> more highbrow than "my eyeballs". 
>>>
>> I usually put survey/memory depending on how recent my data is.
>>
>>> IMO, if somebody is challenging one of your local edits, if they are not 
>>> local also, they should be told as much and sent on their way - UNLESS it's 
>>> something that relates to a mapping standard or best practice.  Then, learn 
>>> from your mistakes and move on.
>>>
>> +1
>>
>>> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:32 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us <>>> 
>>> talk-us@openstreetmap.org >>> > wrote:
>>>
 this was a tool on the map that measured distance.

>> Have you copied that map? I am unsure how the distance measuring tool
>> relates to "why are you telling me I can not use google as a map source"?
>>
  

> Saturday, June 13, 2020 9:29 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us 
> <> talk-us@openstreetmap.org > >:
>  
> You are not allowed to use Google Maps as source.
>  
> Have you used Google Maps to edit OSM?
>  
> "since all the maps on OSM are old news like in my local area 7 months 
> old."
>  
> FYI, world is larger than your local area.
>  
>  
> Jun 13, 2020, 16:08 by > talk-us@openstreetmap.org 
> > :
>
>> If you people want me to prove my edit by adding a source, and a person 
>> from the data group as an editor,
>>  
>> asks me to prove it, and i redo my edit and he does not get back to me, 
>> why are you telling me I can not use
>>  
>> google as a map source, since all the maps on OSM are old news. like in 
>> my local area 7 months old.
>>  
>>  
>>
>  
> ___
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
  
  
  
  
 ___
 Talk-us mailing list
 Talk-us@openstreetmap.org 
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

>>>  
>>>  
>>> --
>>> Eric Ladner
>>>
>>  
>> ___
>> talk mailing list
>> t...@openstreetmap.org 
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>  
>  
>  
>  
>

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Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Google earth, Google maps

[80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us]

i put them as a source i used a ruler on there map.

  
>Saturday, June 13, 2020 10:20 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via talk 
>:
> 
> 
> 
> 
>Jun 13, 2020, 16:59 by eric.lad...@gmail.com:
>>Yeah, be careful with Google Maps.  It's owned and created by a company and 
>>if you copy from it and they can prove it, they could sue the OSM Foundation 
>>into oblivion.  They used to even have their OWN satellites to obtain 
>>imagery.  That's serious money.
>That is not the main problem. Main problem is that it goes our own fundamental 
>rules.
>Mappers must not use other maps* even if whoever hold copyright is unable to 
>sue for some reason.
> 
>And "they can prove it" part may be misleading - you are not allowed to copy 
>even if you think that
>you can hide the copying so that noone will notice it.
> 
>*that is more complicated, we are must not copyrighted data on incompatible 
>licenes -
>but if you are unsure what it means do not use other maps and ask for help 
>before doing this
>> 
>>Typically, with local edits, I put "Local knowledge" as the source.  Sounds 
>>more highbrow than "my eyeballs". 
>I usually put survey/memory depending on how recent my data is.
>>IMO, if somebody is challenging one of your local edits, if they are not 
>>local also, they should be told as much and sent on their way - UNLESS it's 
>>something that relates to a mapping standard or best practice.  Then, learn 
>>from your mistakes and move on.
>+1
>>On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:32 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us < 
>>talk-us@openstreetmap.org > wrote:
>>>this was a tool on the map that measured distance.
>Have you copied that map? I am unsure how the distance measuring tool
>relates to "why are you telling me I can not use google as a map source"?
>>> 
Saturday, June 13, 2020 9:29 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us < 
talk-us@openstreetmap.org >:
 
You are not allowed to use Google Maps as source.
 
Have you used Google Maps to edit OSM?
 
"since all the maps on OSM are old news like in my local area 7 months old."
 
FYI, world is larger than your local area.
 
 
Jun 13, 2020, 16:08 by  talk-us@openstreetmap.org :
>If you people want me to prove my edit by adding a source, and a person 
>from the data group as an editor,
> 
>asks me to prove it, and i redo my edit and he does not get back to me, 
>why are you telling me I can not use
> 
>google as a map source, since all the maps on OSM are old news. like in my 
>local area 7 months old.
> 
> 
 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>>--
>>Eric Ladner
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] Google earth, Google maps

[80hnhtv4agou--- via talk]

i put them as a source i used a ruler on there map.

  
>Saturday, June 13, 2020 10:20 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via talk 
>:
> 
> 
> 
> 
>Jun 13, 2020, 16:59 by eric.lad...@gmail.com:
>>Yeah, be careful with Google Maps.  It's owned and created by a company and 
>>if you copy from it and they can prove it, they could sue the OSM Foundation 
>>into oblivion.  They used to even have their OWN satellites to obtain 
>>imagery.  That's serious money.
>That is not the main problem. Main problem is that it goes our own fundamental 
>rules.
>Mappers must not use other maps* even if whoever hold copyright is unable to 
>sue for some reason.
> 
>And "they can prove it" part may be misleading - you are not allowed to copy 
>even if you think that
>you can hide the copying so that noone will notice it.
> 
>*that is more complicated, we are must not copyrighted data on incompatible 
>licenes -
>but if you are unsure what it means do not use other maps and ask for help 
>before doing this
>> 
>>Typically, with local edits, I put "Local knowledge" as the source.  Sounds 
>>more highbrow than "my eyeballs". 
>I usually put survey/memory depending on how recent my data is.
>>IMO, if somebody is challenging one of your local edits, if they are not 
>>local also, they should be told as much and sent on their way - UNLESS it's 
>>something that relates to a mapping standard or best practice.  Then, learn 
>>from your mistakes and move on.
>+1
>>On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:32 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us < 
>>talk...@openstreetmap.org > wrote:
>>>this was a tool on the map that measured distance.
>Have you copied that map? I am unsure how the distance measuring tool
>relates to "why are you telling me I can not use google as a map source"?
>>> 
Saturday, June 13, 2020 9:29 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us < 
talk...@openstreetmap.org >:
 
You are not allowed to use Google Maps as source.
 
Have you used Google Maps to edit OSM?
 
"since all the maps on OSM are old news like in my local area 7 months old."
 
FYI, world is larger than your local area.
 
 
Jun 13, 2020, 16:08 by  talk...@openstreetmap.org :
>If you people want me to prove my edit by adding a source, and a person 
>from the data group as an editor,
> 
>asks me to prove it, and i redo my edit and he does not get back to me, 
>why are you telling me I can not use
> 
>google as a map source, since all the maps on OSM are old news. like in my 
>local area 7 months old.
> 
> 
 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>>--
>>Eric Ladner
> 
>___
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] Google earth, Google maps

[Mateusz Konieczny via talk]

Jun 13, 2020, 16:59 by eric.lad...@gmail.com:

> Yeah, be careful with Google Maps.  It's owned and created by a company and 
> if you copy from it and they can prove it, they could sue the OSM Foundation 
> into oblivion.  They used to even have their OWN satellites to obtain 
> imagery.  That's serious money.
>
That is not the main problem. Main problem is that it goes our own fundamental 
rules.
Mappers must not use other maps* even if whoever hold copyright is unable to 
sue for some reason.

And "they can prove it" part may be misleading - you are not allowed to copy 
even if you think that
you can hide the copying so that noone will notice it.

*that is more complicated, we are must not copyrighted data on incompatible 
licenes -
but if you are unsure what it means do not use other maps and ask for help 
before doing this

>
> Typically, with local edits, I put "Local knowledge" as the source.  Sounds 
> more highbrow than "my eyeballs". 
>
I usually put survey/memory depending on how recent my data is.

>  IMO, if somebody is challenging one of your local edits, if they are not 
> local also, they should be told as much and sent on their way - UNLESS it's 
> something that relates to a mapping standard or best practice.  Then, learn 
> from your mistakes and move on.
>
+1

> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:32 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us <> 
> talk...@openstreetmap.org> > wrote:
>
>> this was a tool on the map that measured distance.
>>
Have you copied that map? I am unsure how the distance measuring tool
relates to "why are you telling me I can not use google as a map source"?
>>  
>>
>>> Saturday, June 13, 2020 9:29 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us 
>>> <>>> talk...@openstreetmap.org>>> >:
>>>  
>>> You are not allowed to use Google Maps as source.
>>>  
>>> Have you used Google Maps to edit OSM?
>>>  
>>> "since all the maps on OSM are old news like in my local area 7 months old."
>>>  
>>> FYI, world is larger than your local area.
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Jun 13, 2020, 16:08 by >>> talk...@openstreetmap.org>>> :
>>>
 If you people want me to prove my edit by adding a source, and a person 
 from the data group as an editor,
  
 asks me to prove it, and i redo my edit and he does not get back to me, 
 why are you telling me I can not use
  
 google as a map source, since all the maps on OSM are old news. like in my 
 local area 7 months old.
  
  

>>>  
>>> ___
>>> Talk-us mailing list
>>> talk...@openstreetmap.org 
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>>>
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> ___
>>  Talk-us mailing list
>>  >> talk...@openstreetmap.org
>>  >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Eric Ladner
>

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Re: [Talk-us] Google earth, Google maps

[Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us]

Jun 13, 2020, 16:59 by eric.lad...@gmail.com:

> Yeah, be careful with Google Maps.  It's owned and created by a company and 
> if you copy from it and they can prove it, they could sue the OSM Foundation 
> into oblivion.  They used to even have their OWN satellites to obtain 
> imagery.  That's serious money.
>
That is not the main problem. Main problem is that it goes our own fundamental 
rules.
Mappers must not use other maps* even if whoever hold copyright is unable to 
sue for some reason.

And "they can prove it" part may be misleading - you are not allowed to copy 
even if you think that
you can hide the copying so that noone will notice it.

*that is more complicated, we are must not copyrighted data on incompatible 
licenes -
but if you are unsure what it means do not use other maps and ask for help 
before doing this

>
> Typically, with local edits, I put "Local knowledge" as the source.  Sounds 
> more highbrow than "my eyeballs". 
>
I usually put survey/memory depending on how recent my data is.

>  IMO, if somebody is challenging one of your local edits, if they are not 
> local also, they should be told as much and sent on their way - UNLESS it's 
> something that relates to a mapping standard or best practice.  Then, learn 
> from your mistakes and move on.
>
+1

> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:32 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us <> 
> talk-us@openstreetmap.org> > wrote:
>
>> this was a tool on the map that measured distance.
>>
Have you copied that map? I am unsure how the distance measuring tool
relates to "why are you telling me I can not use google as a map source"?
>>  
>>
>>> Saturday, June 13, 2020 9:29 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us 
>>> <>>> talk-us@openstreetmap.org>>> >:
>>>  
>>> You are not allowed to use Google Maps as source.
>>>  
>>> Have you used Google Maps to edit OSM?
>>>  
>>> "since all the maps on OSM are old news like in my local area 7 months old."
>>>  
>>> FYI, world is larger than your local area.
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Jun 13, 2020, 16:08 by >>> talk-us@openstreetmap.org>>> :
>>>
 If you people want me to prove my edit by adding a source, and a person 
 from the data group as an editor,
  
 asks me to prove it, and i redo my edit and he does not get back to me, 
 why are you telling me I can not use
  
 google as a map source, since all the maps on OSM are old news. like in my 
 local area 7 months old.
  
  

>>>  
>>> ___
>>> Talk-us mailing list
>>> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org 
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>>>
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> ___
>>  Talk-us mailing list
>>  >> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
>>  >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Eric Ladner
>

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] et si c'était Nöel ? liste de souhait et d'intérêt des outils existant

[osm . sanspourriel]

J'ai été étonné qu'Yves n'a pas réagi sur "URL de chaque point de vente
d'une enseigne" car grosso-modo c'est une expression régulière basée sur
une ref... comme les liens Wikidata.

Mais je pense que c'est plus un projet du mois pour qu'on recherche pour
les enseignes ces infos.

Après l'assos peut avoir un outil surveillant l'ajout de ref ou d'url
sur une enseigne pour proposer d'ajouter l'url spécifique (objet du
message de Florian, oui il dit que ce n'est pas vraiment une ref).

Mais l'outil sans que les gens ne contribuent à trouver les URL... C'est
vrai que la recherche dans le cadre du covid nous a fait progresser.

Pour d'autres, il n'y a pas d'URL pour chaque point de vente, exemple
https://www.marionnaud.fr/magasins  et là, c'est le drame.

Non, je dirais : ils n'ont pas un site ergonomique mais un site pistant
via GM, qu'ils assument, tant pis pou eux.

Je me demande si la licence "tout droits réservés" de ces sites n'est pas
un blocage à réaliser ces opérations. Peut-être est-ce le cas uniquement
pour la réutilisation des géoloc des lieux, ce qui bloquerait uniquement la
réutilisation par OSMOSE.

A priori c'est dans leur intérêt que les magasins soient bien
documentés. certains ne font-ils pas appel à SeFaireConnaitre pour être
présents dans OSM ?
Avoir un message type pour demander de libérer les données en ODbL (ou
toute licence compatible avec OSM^^) précisant le cadre et l'intérêt
devrait suffire... à condition d'arriver à faire tomber l'info dans la
boite-aux-lettres d'une personne pouvant approuver.

Concernant la géolocalisation, si le magasin est déjà dans OSM elle peut
être relativement imprécise. Voir on peut se baser juste sur l'adresse.

Jean-Yvon

Le 10/06/2020 à 21:57, Romain MEHUT - romain.me...@mailo.com a écrit :

J'ajoute aussi ce qu'a proposé Florian
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-fr/2020-May/099075.html
mais resté sans réponse.

Romain
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[Talk-it] [talk-it] pagamento con carta

[Volker Schmidt]

Ogni tanto quando faccio un edit (spostamento) che include un esercizio
dove si può pagare con carta mi salta fuori questo avviso in JOSM perché
questi esercizi hanno il tag payment:credit_cards=yes:
"payment:credit_cards=yes is inaccurate. Use separate tags for each
specific type, e.g. payment:mastercard=yes or payment:visa=yes. (1) "

Ho verificato il wiki

e trovo, con sorpresa, queste istruzioni:
payment:credit_cards Generic tag for any credit card This should be mainly
used when credit cards are *not* accepted. If cards *are* accepted, please
indicate which by using a more specific key.
Trovo poco realistico l'idea di elencare in un supermercato o benzinaio
tutti i tipi di carta che accettano. Con tutta probabilità non lo sanno
neanche i dipendenti alla cassa.

Vorrei proporre di aggiungere il valore "multi", o qualcosa di simile,
all'elenco dei possibili valori.

Che ne dite?

Volker


Virus-free.
www.avast.com

<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
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Re: [Talk-us] Google earth, Google maps

[Eric Ladner]

Yeah, be careful with Google Maps.  It's owned and created by a company and
if you copy from it and they can prove it, they could sue the OSM
Foundation into oblivion.  They used to even have their OWN satellites to
obtain imagery.  That's serious money.

Typically, with local edits, I put "Local knowledge" as the source.  Sounds
more highbrow than "my eyeballs".  IMO, if somebody is challenging one of
your local edits, if they are not local also, they should be told as much
and sent on their way - UNLESS it's something that relates to a mapping
standard or best practice.  Then, learn from your mistakes and move on.

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:32 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us <
talk-us@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> this was a tool on the map that measured distance.
>
>
>
> Saturday, June 13, 2020 9:29 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us <
> talk-us@openstreetmap.org>:
>
> You are not allowed to use Google Maps as source.
>
> Have you used Google Maps to edit OSM?
>
> "since all the maps on OSM are old news like in my local area 7 months
> old."
>
> FYI, world is larger than your local area.
>
>
> Jun 13, 2020, 16:08 by talk-us@openstreetmap.org:
>
> If you people want me to prove my edit by adding a source, and a person
> from the data group as an editor,
>
> asks me to prove it, and i redo my edit and he does not get back to me,
> why are you telling me I can not use
>
> google as a map source, since all the maps on OSM are old news. like in my
> local area 7 months old.
>
>
>
>
> ___
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>


-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] Google earth, Google maps

[80hnhtv4agou--- via talk]

this was a tool on the map that measured distance.

  
>Saturday, June 13, 2020 9:29 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us 
>:
> 
>You are not allowed to use Google Maps as source.
> 
>Have you used Google Maps to edit OSM?
> 
>"since all the maps on OSM are old news like in my local area 7 months old."
> 
>FYI, world is larger than your local area.
> 
> 
>Jun 13, 2020, 16:08 by talk...@openstreetmap.org:
>>If you people want me to prove my edit by adding a source, and a person from 
>>the data group as an editor,
>> 
>>asks me to prove it, and i redo my edit and he does not get back to me, why 
>>are you telling me I can not use
>> 
>>google as a map source, since all the maps on OSM are old news. like in my 
>>local area 7 months old.
>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: [Talk-us] Google earth, Google maps

[80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us]

this was a tool on the map that measured distance.

  
>Saturday, June 13, 2020 9:29 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us 
>:
> 
>You are not allowed to use Google Maps as source.
> 
>Have you used Google Maps to edit OSM?
> 
>"since all the maps on OSM are old news like in my local area 7 months old."
> 
>FYI, world is larger than your local area.
> 
> 
>Jun 13, 2020, 16:08 by talk-us@openstreetmap.org:
>>If you people want me to prove my edit by adding a source, and a person from 
>>the data group as an editor,
>> 
>>asks me to prove it, and i redo my edit and he does not get back to me, why 
>>are you telling me I can not use
>> 
>>google as a map source, since all the maps on OSM are old news. like in my 
>>local area 7 months old.
>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: [Talk-us] Google earth, Google maps

[Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us]

You are not allowed to use Google Maps as source.

Have you used Google Maps to edit OSM?

"since all the maps on OSM are old news like in my local area 7 months old."

FYI, world is larger than your local area.


Jun 13, 2020, 16:08 by talk-us@openstreetmap.org:

> If you people want me to prove my edit by adding a source, and a person from 
> the data group as an editor,
>  
> asks me to prove it, and i redo my edit and he does not get back to me, why 
> are you telling me I can not use
>  
> google as a map source, since all the maps on OSM are old news. like in my 
> local area 7 months old.
>  
>  
>

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Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] Google earth, Google maps

[Mateusz Konieczny via talk]

You are not allowed to use Google Maps as source.

Have you used Google Maps to edit OSM?

"since all the maps on OSM are old news like in my local area 7 months old."

FYI, world is larger than your local area.


Jun 13, 2020, 16:08 by talk...@openstreetmap.org:

> If you people want me to prove my edit by adding a source, and a person from 
> the data group as an editor,
>  
> asks me to prove it, and i redo my edit and he does not get back to me, why 
> are you telling me I can not use
>  
> google as a map source, since all the maps on OSM are old news. like in my 
> local area 7 months old.
>  
>  
>

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Re: [Talk-us] Rail tagging in US (and North America): operator=* and reporting_marks=*

[Russell Nelson]

On 6/13/20 12:30 AM, Natfoot wrote:

And I don't trust the FRA database to be accurate.

No database is perfect. Not even OSM. Some databases can be useful.

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Re: [Talk-us] Rail tagging in US (and North America): operator=* and reporting_marks=*

[Russell Nelson]

On 6/13/20 12:25 AM, stevea wrote:

It is absolutely fascinating (to me, anyway) to watch this conversation!

I thanked Russ Nelson on wiki for his comments at New York/Railroads.  (And we 
still have a ways to go there).
Yeah, for me the map is much more important than the wiki. Except for 
Wikipedia's stupid citation rules, all that information belongs in 
Wikipedia. Although if it drives more mappers, that's fine. Maybe we 
should populate the wiki with the old_railroad_operator information? 
That would be a smart.


I wish NE2 could have managed to color within the lines. He was a very 
prolific mapper.


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[Talk-us] Google earth, Google maps

[80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us]

If you people want me to prove my edit by adding a source, and a person from 
the data group as an editor,
 
asks me to prove it, and i redo my edit and he does not get back to me, why are 
you telling me I can not use
 
google as a map source, since all the maps on OSM are old news. like in my 
local area 7 months old.
 
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[OSM-talk] Google earth, Google maps

[80hnhtv4agou--- via talk]

If you people want me to prove my edit by adding a source, and a person from 
the data group as an editor,
 
asks me to prove it, and i redo my edit and he does not get back to me, why are 
you telling me I can not use
 
google as a map source, since all the maps on OSM are old news. like in my 
local area 7 months old.
 
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Numéro sans nom de rue : faux positifs dans la validation de JOSM

[deuzeffe]

Le 13/06/2020 à 13:35, Yves P. a écrit :

En revanche, je ne comprends pas l'intérêt de addr:city &
addr:postcode de la contribution initiale (pour la première relation, par ex.).

+1
Je comprends qu'avec un formulaire un débutant cherche à remplir toutes les 
cases :D (on a tous fait ça ?)


Tous, je ne sais pas, mais moi oui. Par conséquent j'ai fait un 
nettoyage drastique des POI pour virer city/postcode sur tous ceux que 
j'avais intégrés dans le périmètre de ma commune.



Comme l'a remarqué Lenni, il y les addr:country=FR (341 809 
 en France :D)
Et addr:city : 986  381 

C'est fait 1 328 190 de tags à "libérer" ;)


Il me semble qu'il y a eu du ménage de fait sur les is_in=*

Est-ce que ça vaudrait le coup de faire pareil ?

--
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] et si c'était Nöel ? liste de souhait et d'intérêt des outils existant

[Marc M.]

Bonjour,

Merci pour vos retours.
Voici la compilation chronologique des 8 personnes ayant répondu avec
utilisation et/ou besoin/souhait.
un doubble étonnement : le nombre limité à 8 et le peux de retour
sur les outils existant, à croire qu'on peux fermer la moitié :)

- avoir un éditeur web consensuel utilisable (le fameux id-consensuel
grâce aux patchs de fred)
- accompagner les petites structures pour un switch2osm, ce qui implique
d'avoir un doc Leaflet en français par ex
sur http://www.openstreetmap.fr/fonds-de-carte/
- soutenir les rendus existant (par ex fr) ou à grandir (cyclosm) parce
qu'une donnée qui se voit mal est une donnée un peu gâchée.
- diminuer la marche à l'entrée pour les contributeurs :
-- faciliter/accompagner lorsque quelqu'un veux faire une amélioration
sur un outil majeur, écrire p'tre une doc, identifier les problèmes.
-- avoir des serveurs de test pour cela (par exemple tester une modif de
rendu à plusieurs, ce n'est pas facile. faut installer un docker, le
rendre accessible à l'extérieur, installer le style, etc)
-- faciliter le correspondance besoin<>aidant en aidant par exemple la
communauté à bâtir une page listant les besoins, afin que ceux qui le
souhaitent puisse y piocher sans devoir "parcourir le web".
-- soutenir les communautés locales à grandir voir à se créer dans les
endroits qui en sont dépourvu.
-- aider à l'ajout d'opendata dans osm, non seulement osmose, mais aussi
en discutant d'un possible groupe de travail import/intégration ciblé
(certaines infos ont un "match"
facile entre osm-opendata qui rend inutile de demander un clic par
objet). cfr aussi le osmmybiz version opendata-fr
- un outil qui envoie un mail de présentation d'OSM dès que l'on tagge
email=moncoiff...@orange.fr. Avec un lien vers un soutien financier
- maquette de présentation/communication osm auprès des POI
- éditeur axé poi osmmybiz + horaire, un wizard/éditeur d'ajout de POI
tout public, notamment pour les commerces.
- retour du rendu BANO
- une instance française de https://nrenner.github.io/achavi/ ?
- communiquer autour de  http://geosm.openstreetmap.fr
- URL de chaque point de vente d'une enseigne
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-fr/2020-May/099075.html
- du Docker sur l'infra OSM-FR (suposé possible avec proxmox 6 à court
terme)
- du switch2osm qui parle de tuiles vecto
- une version d'Osmose dédié à l'OpenData
- un canal de discussion pour remplacer twitter "Mapillary team fr"
- pouvoir suivre des objets osm en particulier, et être alerté (mail,
flux rss, autre) en cas de modification.
- interface ‘carte cyclable’ rafraichie tous les jours, comme l’est
l’excellent cyclOSM
- completer le docker osm-carto switch2osm afin d'avoir la brique
"récupérer le style"
- CyclOSM
- BD Ortho IGN
- UMap

j'en ai fait un pad pour rajouter facilement d'étentuel avis à venir
https://annuel2.framapad.org/p/osm-retour-communaute-9h8d

Cordialement,
Marc

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Re: [talk-au] T-Intersection signs - how to map a sign at 90 degrees

[Ewen Hill]

Thanks Luke and Alex - I appreciate such a rapid response.
AU:W2-4 (L)  it is

Ewen

On Sat, 13 Jun 2020 at 21:56, Alex Sims  wrote:

> The sign on the main road will be W2-4 (L), Side road entering on left,
> one day.
>
>
>
> When conventions change, signs aren’t changed overnight, road authorities
> replace them as needed. You are looking at an older sign. At some point the
> arrow was added to the standard.
>
>
>
> Alex
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Ewen Hill 
> *Date: *Saturday, 13 June 2020 at 8:38 pm
> *To: *OSM-Au 
> *Subject: *[talk-au] T-Intersection signs - how to map a sign at 90
> degrees
>
>
>
> Hi, I have a straight main road and a 90 degree road to the left that
> stops at the main road.  A yellow t-junction diamond precedes the
> intersection on the main through road so the T has been rotated 90 degrees.
>
>
>
> The intersection in question is at
> openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-34.35067/142.03662
>
>
>
> How do I represent this please as the only sign appears to be AU:W2-3
> which is an upright "T" ...
>
> https://www.artcraft.com.au/catalogsearch/result/?q=W2-3
>
>
>
>
>
> Ewen
>


-- 
Warm Regards

Ewen Hill
Internet Development Australia
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Re: [talk-au] T-Intersection signs - how to map a sign at 90 degrees

[Alex Sims]

The sign on the main road will be W2-4 (L), Side road entering on left, one day.

When conventions change, signs aren’t changed overnight, road authorities 
replace them as needed. You are looking at an older sign. At some point the 
arrow was added to the standard.

Alex


From: Ewen Hill 
Date: Saturday, 13 June 2020 at 8:38 pm
To: OSM-Au 
Subject: [talk-au] T-Intersection signs - how to map a sign at 90 degrees

Hi, I have a straight main road and a 90 degree road to the left that stops at 
the main road.  A yellow t-junction diamond precedes the intersection on the 
main through road so the T has been rotated 90 degrees.

The intersection in question is at  
openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-34.35067/142.03662

How do I represent this please as the only sign appears to be AU:W2-3 which is 
an upright "T" ...
https://www.artcraft.com.au/catalogsearch/result/?q=W2-3


Ewen
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Numéro sans nom de rue : faux positifs dans la validation de JOSM

[Philippe Verdy]

A condition de trouver les relations parentes ! Sinon garder au moins
"addr:street" (et "addr:city"   pour la désambiguisation des noms de rues
sur plusieurs communes) ou bien l'attribut "ref:FR:FANTOIR[:left/right]"
s'il est là.
Reste alors à créer les relations manquantes pour nettoyer le reste (en
faisant attention aux rues à cheval sur plusieurs communes où il faudra
autant de relations que de communes, chacune avec leur code FANTOIR)

Le sam. 13 juin 2020 à 13:36, Yves P.  a écrit :

> If it runs, don't fix it ;)
>
> Ce qui ne "fonctionnait" pas c'était les POI membres de la relation ;)
>
> En revanche, je ne comprends pas l'intérêt de addr:city &
> addr:postcode de la contribution initiale (pour la première relation, par
> ex.).
>
> +1
> Je comprends qu'avec un formulaire un débutant cherche à remplir toutes
> les cases :D (on a tous fait ça ?)
>
> Comme l'a remarqué Lenni, il y les addr:country=FR (341 809
>  en France :D)
> Et addr:city : 986  381 
>
> C'est fait 1 328 190 de tags à "libérer" ;)
>
> __
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> ___
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Numéro sans nom de rue : faux positifs dans la validation de JOSM

[Yves P.]

> If it runs, don't fix it ;)
Ce qui ne "fonctionnait" pas c'était les POI membres de la relation ;)

> En revanche, je ne comprends pas l'intérêt de addr:city &
> addr:postcode de la contribution initiale (pour la première relation, par 
> ex.).
+1
Je comprends qu'avec un formulaire un débutant cherche à remplir toutes les 
cases :D (on a tous fait ça ?)

Comme l'a remarqué Lenni, il y les addr:country=FR (341 809 
 en France :D)
Et addr:city : 986  381 

C'est fait 1 328 190 de tags à "libérer" ;)

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Re: [OSM-talk] Could/should editors detect/disallow huge changeset bboxes?

[Alan Mackie]

Splitting changesets does sound like a lot of work if you don't already
have for example the multi layer tools that JOSM has.

Would a warning that "you already have pending edits ___ km away, please
consider saving or discarding those before editing here" be useful in the
interim? I think this would "only" need the software to keep track of the
bounding box for current edits and notifying users if the closest point of
the current edits is out of view by quite some distance.  This avoids the
need to split pending edits into multiple changesets because the prompt is
shown before work on the second region starts.

On Sat, 13 Jun 2020, 11:43 Simon Poole,  wrote:

> I've advocated for this in the past,  but getting this right from a
> business logic pov is fairly tricky and is yet another thing that an
> editor needs to keep track of when creating and modify geometries, and
> changing tags. From the top my head at least: new object creation,
> dragging nodes and ways, merging and splitting ways, adding and removing
> relation members, copy, cut and paste, all tag changes. While each of
> these might be minor things, all together they have a clear performance
> and complexity impact and require UI additions to handle. This is
> assuming that such a bounding box limit would not be enforced by the
> API, if enforced you actively have to not allow the user to make the
> change which is even more painful.
>
> If the limit is enforced there are all kinds of vandalism/DoS scenarios
> that would probably require lifting the restriction for admins/mods.
>
> And all this because of a API defect (because there is just one bounding
> box per changeset instead of a list)?
>
> Simon
>
> Am 12.06.2020 um 13:00 schrieb Frederik Ramm:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I wonder if it would be feasible or desirable for editors to warn users
> > if they are at risk of creating country/world-spanning changesets.
> > Something like "you have unsaved edits more than 500km away from where
> > you are editing at the moment, please upload those before you continue"
> > or so.
> >
> > World-spanning changesets are a constant source of irritation, and very
> > rarely intentional.
> >
> > Bye
> > Frederik
> >
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Chambre de commerce et d'industrie

[Philippe Verdy]

Si c'est une autorité faisant droit, c'est bien une forme de gouvernement
local (justifié en plus sur le fait qu'il y a des adhésions, des élections,
c'est une sorte de conseil local même si ce n'est pas pour toute la
population mais cela vise les professionnels en tant que personnes morales
(la population peut cependant être impliquée via les syndicats et assos,
elles aussi personnes morales).

Et ce gouvernement local a aussi une compétence territoriale (à priori le
département, mais il existe des départements avec plusieurs chambres, les
chambres régionales, et la chambre nationale)...

Selon le site officiel pour la France il y a 126 établissements publics
nationaux (1), régionaux (18 dont les 5 DROM et les 13 de métropole),
territoriaux (6 dans les COM), et locaux (soit 84 départements, 6 locaux en
Île-de-France non découpée exactement comme les départements, et 10 autres
locaux) ; plus 123 chambres françaises dans 92 autres pays:

https://www.cci.fr/web/organisation-du-reseau/le-reseau-des-cci/-/article/Le+r%C3%A9seau/la-force-d-un-reseau-au-service-de-l-entreprise


Ce sont des établissements publics. Ils ont un droit dans les décision
publiques comme les PLU et SCOT.

je penche donc vers office=government (même pour les chambres étrangères
qui sont en liaison avec le MINEFI, les affaires étrangères et les
ambassades, le ministère de la culture pour les écoles françaises, et la
défense pour la sécurité des ressortissants);




Le ven. 12 juin 2020 à 17:41, Yves P.  a écrit :

> Bonsoir,
>
> Je ne trouve rien dans le wiki et un peu de tout dans la base de données :
> (cf. 122 objets https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/V0O)
>
>- amenity=public_building
>
>
>- building=civic
>- building=commercial
>- building=house
>- building=office
>- building=public
>- building=yes
>
>
>- office=administration
>- office=association
>- office=government
>- office=quango
>- office=yes
>
> parfois il y a seulement un nom sans tag principal !
>
> office=quango ?
> C'est une Autorité administrative indépendante
> 
> .
>
> __
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> ___
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[talk-au] T-Intersection signs - how to map a sign at 90 degrees

[Ewen Hill]

Hi, I have a straight main road and a 90 degree road to the left that stops
at the main road.  A yellow t-junction diamond precedes the intersection on
the main through road so the T has been rotated 90 degrees.

The intersection in question is at
openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-34.35067/142.03662

How do I represent this please as the only sign appears to be AU:W2-3 which
is an upright "T" ...
https://www.artcraft.com.au/catalogsearch/result/?q=W2-3


Ewen
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Re: [OSM-talk] Could/should editors detect/disallow huge changeset bboxes?

[Simon Poole]

I've advocated for this in the past,  but getting this right from a
business logic pov is fairly tricky and is yet another thing that an
editor needs to keep track of when creating and modify geometries, and
changing tags. From the top my head at least: new object creation,
dragging nodes and ways, merging and splitting ways, adding and removing
relation members, copy, cut and paste, all tag changes. While each of
these might be minor things, all together they have a clear performance
and complexity impact and require UI additions to handle. This is
assuming that such a bounding box limit would not be enforced by the
API, if enforced you actively have to not allow the user to make the
change which is even more painful.

If the limit is enforced there are all kinds of vandalism/DoS scenarios
that would probably require lifting the restriction for admins/mods.  

And all this because of a API defect (because there is just one bounding
box per changeset instead of a list)?

Simon

Am 12.06.2020 um 13:00 schrieb Frederik Ramm:
> Hi,
>
> I wonder if it would be feasible or desirable for editors to warn users
> if they are at risk of creating country/world-spanning changesets.
> Something like "you have unsaved edits more than 500km away from where
> you are editing at the moment, please upload those before you continue"
> or so.
>
> World-spanning changesets are a constant source of irritation, and very
> rarely intentional.
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Numéro sans nom de rue : faux positifs dans la validation de JOSM

[leni]

Le 13/06/2020 à 11:22, deuzeffe a écrit :

Le 13/06/2020 à 11:01, Yves P. a écrit :


Un exemple ?
J'ai créé modifié ou créé des relations associatedStreet. Il me 
semblait qu'il y avait tous les membres. JOSM à râler à la validation.
Je les ai rechargées et validées ce matin. JOSM ne râle plus. Il y en 
avait peut-être une incomplète ??


If it runs, don't fix it ;)

En revanche, je ne comprends pas l'intérêt de addr:city &
addr:postcode de la contribution initiale (pour la première relation, 
par ex.).
Ces tags sont indispensables ou font-ils doublon (j'ai cru comprendre 
que c'était à éviter...) avec l'emprise de la commune ?
À la limite, je comprends le postcode pour les grandes communes à 
plusieurs postcode, mais le city (le wiki précise bien que pour la FR, 
c'est un doublon du name de la limite administrative de la commune) ?


+1 osm sait que tout ce qui se trouve dans la limite administrative lui 
est rattaché (on le voit bien avec la recherche) et parfois je trouve 
aussi de addr:country ...


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Numéro sans nom de rue : faux positifs dans la validation de JOSM

[deuzeffe]

Le 13/06/2020 à 11:01, Yves P. a écrit :


Un exemple ?
J'ai créé modifié ou créé des relations associatedStreet. Il me semblait 
qu'il y avait tous les membres. JOSM à râler à la validation.
Je les ai rechargées et validées ce matin. JOSM ne râle plus. Il y en 
avait peut-être une incomplète ??


If it runs, don't fix it ;)

En revanche, je ne comprends pas l'intérêt de addr:city &
addr:postcode de la contribution initiale (pour la première relation, 
par ex.).
Ces tags sont indispensables ou font-ils doublon (j'ai cru comprendre 
que c'était à éviter...) avec l'emprise de la commune ?
À la limite, je comprends le postcode pour les grandes communes à 
plusieurs postcode, mais le city (le wiki précise bien que pour la FR, 
c'est un doublon du name de la limite administrative de la commune) ?


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Numéro sans nom de rue : faux positifs dans la validation de JOSM

[Yves P.]

> Un exemple ?
J'ai créé modifié ou créé des relations associatedStreet. Il me semblait qu'il 
y avait tous les membres. JOSM à râler à la validation.

Rue de la Chevalerie (10959612, v2) 

Place de la Comédie (10959605, v2) 

Rue de la Comédie (10959604, v2) 

Rue des Cordeliers (10959600, v3) 

Rue Pasteur (10959502, v3) 
Rue Sébile (10959458, v2) 

Je les ai rechargées et validées ce matin. JOSM ne râle plus. Il y en avait 
peut-être une incomplète ??

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Numéro sans nom de rue : faux positifs dans la validation de JOSM

[deuzeffe]

Le 12/06/2020 à 19:08, Yves P. a écrit :

Bonsoir,


Bonjour,

JOSM râle pour *addr:housenumber=** sans *addr:street=** alors que la 
rue est indiquée dans une relation de type *associatedStreet*.


Un exemple ?
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Re: [Talk-it] [OT] DAE - defibrillatori

[Lorenzo Rolla]

Ringrazio Giovanni che ha accolto la mia segnalazione e ha provveduto a
creare la pagina italiana.
Alcune considerazioni: nella futura legge l'uso del defibrillatore sarà
consentito a *chiunque* in caso di emergenza. Quindi il periodo *sebbene
talvolta il loro uso sia concesso solo a persone che abbiano seguito degli
specifici corsi di formazione, *andrà  adeguata alla nuova normativa (art.3)

   - opening_hours
   =*, se il
   defibrillatore è accessibile solo in certi orari. * Certi* lo
tradurrei *determinati,
   specifici.*
   - phone =*, numero di
   telefono del responsabile del sito dov'è presente il dispositivo. Sito lo
   tradurrei *luogo*.
   - defibrillator:location
   =*, una
   descrizione testuale su dov'è posizionato il dispositivo (per esempio,
   "nella stanza del portiere"). Era *aed:location*; se sei un utilizzatore
   dei dati, considerali entrambi.* Era* lo tradurrei *Precedentemente*
   - access =*, se
   l'accesso al dispositivo è vincolato. Vincolato lo tradurrei in *limitato,
   soggetto a restrizioni.*
   - description =*,
   se c'è qualcosa di specifico per questo dispositivo. Specifico lo tradurrei
   in *particolare, peculiare.*


*Ovviamente vedi tu Giovanni se le mie osservazioni sono pertinenti. Ciao.
Lorenzo*

Il giorno gio 11 giu 2020 alle ore 12:29 Cascafico Giovanni <
cascaf...@gmail.com> ha scritto:

> Date un'occhiata alla mia traduzione
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/IT:Tag:emergency%3Ddefibrillator
>
> Il 10/06/20, Lorenzo Rolla ha scritto:
> > Ri per caso, ho visto la pagina in francese: è perfetta per lo scopo!
> > Infatti la pagina richiama una legge (decreto) che disciplina i criteri
> di
> > trasmissione dei dati. Un formulario organizzato così è veramente utile
> > allo scopo...
> >
> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Tag:emergency%3Ddefibrillator
> >
> >
> https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=JORFTEXT39363959==id
> >
> >
> >
> > Il giorno mer 10 giu 2020 alle 20:00 Lorenzo Rolla  >
> > ha scritto:
> >
> >> Per caso, ho controllato la pagina che descrive come inserire un
> >> defibrillatore e ho fatto un’amara scoperta: non esiste in italiano...
> >> Non
> >> potremmo tradurla: sarebbe un modo concreto per avvicinare i
> >> volenterosi...
> >>
> >> Il giorno mer 10 giu 2020 alle 10:37 Cascafico Giovanni <
> >> cascaf...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
> >>
> >>> Credo sia possibile riusare facilmente il codice sviluppato da Naposm.
> >>> Con gli esercizi commerciali stiamo sperimentando una mancanza di
> >>> interesse, presumibilemnte perchè non abbiamo una mente "promozionale"
> >>> e la nostra "potenza di fuoco" mediatica non è paragonabile a Google.
> >>>
> >>> C'è una base di persone, enti, associazioni disposte a diffonderne
> >>> l'uso?
> >>>
> >>> Il 08/06/20, Lorenzo Rolla ha scritto:
> >>> > Gentilissimi, riprendo questa discussione di qualche mese fa,
> >>> > inserendo
> >>> il
> >>> > testo della legge approvata dalla Camera. Non sarebbe possibile
> creare
> >>> un
> >>> > formulario da completare come quello dei negozi in tempo Covid? In
> >>> questo
> >>> > modo sarebbe facilitato il contributo di qualche cittadino
> volenteroso
> >>> non
> >>> > avvezzo alle complessità informatiche di mappatura. Lorenzo
> >>> >
> >>> > https://www.senato.it/service/PDF/PDFServer/DF/346368.pdf
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Il giorno mer 31 lug 2019 alle 08:21 Andreas Lattmann <
> >>> > andrea.lattm...@ga-2.it> ha scritto:
> >>> >
> >>> >> >In realtà a me al corso di BLS-D hanno insegnato:
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> >  * che si fa il massaggio cardiaco+eventualmente la respirazione
> >>> >> > (che
> >>> >> >non è indispensabile nei primi minuti, a meno che l'arresto non
> >>> sia
> >>> >> >dovuto a soffocamento, mentre è indispensabile far girare il
> >>> >> >sangue). Questo permette di recuperare tempo prezioso
> >>> >> >* che intanto si manda qualcuno a prendere un DAE per riattivare il
> >>> >> >cuore
> >>> >> >
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Giusto, la procedura è questa, l'importante è che ci sia qualcuno
> che
> >>> >> interviene e pratichi subito il BLS mentre qualcuno, anche con
> >>> >> l'aiuto
> >>> di
> >>> >> OSM, trovi nelle vicinanze un DAE.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> >altrimenti si continua a massaggiare/ventilare finché si può, in
> >>> attesa
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> >di soccorsi più esperti.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Anche i soccorsi più esperti miracoli non ne fanno se nessuno
> >>> interviene
> >>> >> prima.
> >>> >> Hanno il vantaggio di maggiore esperienza ed attrezzature (cannula
> >>> >> oro-faringea [se non c'è dottore], il paziente può essere intubato,
> >>> >> ossigenato con le bombole di ossigeno ed il dottore gli può fare
> >>> >> delle
> >>> >> punture di adrenalina 

Re: [OSM-talk] Large cadastral polygons

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 12. Jun 2020, at 17:39, Paul Johnson  wrote:
> 
> Not just that, but cadastral type tags probably shouldn't be spanning large 
> areas to start with.  If your landuse or landcover polygon is crossing an 
> unclassified or higher highway, you're probably making a big mistake.  
> landuse=residential is NOT a substitute for place=neighborhood (something I 
> see a lot).


+1, I would go even further, and at least in countries like Germany (roads not 
on parcels), no urban landuse should ideally contain public roads. This makes 
editing much easier, multipolygons are not or very rarely needed for landuse 
mapped in this way. Easier to understand and more detailed. 
Then, use place for settlement parts.



> 
> If you have reasonably high resolution (like, at least Esri Clarity in the 
> midwest) imagery available, it's often possible to see lot stakes and 
> fenceposts on property boundaries...that seems like a reasonable edge for a 
> landuse polygon.


+1

Cheers Martin 
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[OSM-talk-fr] Titres de paiement

[Yves P.]

Bonjour,

On trouve aussi en France :
Ciné-chèque 
Chèque Cinéma Universel  (accepté 
normalement dans 100% des cinés français)

Chèques-vacances ANCV  (dans le wiki 

 mais sans clé)
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Re: [OSM-talk] Could/should editors detect/disallow huge changeset bboxes?

[Phil Wyatt]

The issue is actually still open in ID

 

https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/5424

 

and references the more recent request

 

https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/7434

 

From: Alan Mackie  
Sent: Saturday, 13 June 2020 2:26 AM
To: Paul Johnson 
Cc: Talk Openstreetmap 
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Could/should editors detect/disallow huge changeset 
bboxes?

 

 

 

On Fri, 12 Jun 2020 at 16:45, Paul Johnson mailto:ba...@ursamundi.org> > wrote:

 

 

This isn't unique to JOSM, though.  This is easily doable with iD as well (as 
evidenced by watching OSMCha with a bbox edged on Oklahoma's maximum extents, 
Amazon Logistics does this a good 3-4 times a day every day with changesets 
spanning the continent).  And I've done it in Vespucci by accident. 

 

 

I get notifications because of this sort of behaviour fairly frequently. I 
think iD and Maps.me are by far the most frequent "offenders", followed swiftly 
by wheelmap.org  , but I haven't kept a proper count. 

 

In JOSM a better way to select deleted objects (formerly) within a given area 
would be nice, but is it generally less prone to this anyway as new sessions 
tend to start as new layers. Manual download for new areas can serve as a 
reminder that this isn't "live" too.

 

There have been requests for iD to warn users if they have unsaved edits far 
away before they start editing a new area, but so far these issues have been 
closed once it is mentioned that other software also does this on occasion. See 
for example this issue:

 

https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/7434

 

 

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Re: [OSM-talk] Could/should editors detect/disallow huge changeset bboxes?

[Florian Lohoff]

On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 11:19:46AM -0400, James wrote:
> No they shouldn't, mapping roads in northern Canada, your bbox can become
> quite large quickly as mapping logging roads/dirt roads is quick and easy,
> but span over multiple kms

The point is that the line/way of that road should also not span tens of
kms. You should break that up every couple of kilometers.

Otherwise this is prone to break one day or the other. And its simply
inefficient. Every time you touch that road you invalidate hundrets
of tiles.

When i load some area in josm and there is an object which spans
multiple times of my edit area i typically split it down. Be it
roads or waterways. And there are few tags which REALLY span that
long objects. 

Flo
-- 
Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de
UTF-8 Test: The  ran after a , but the  ran away


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