Re: ...working on version 9 — will essential changes be implemented? (was: The Bat! v8.8.9 MSI (3rd attempt))
Title: Re: ...working on version 9 — will essential changes be implemented? (was: The Bat! v8.8.9 MSI (3rd attempt)) Hello Lüko, Saturday, July 20, 2019, 12:41:09 AM, you wrote: TheBAt! should have two separate lists, selectable by a TAB, one of the real attachments, the other the nested list of all body parts. I see no reason to have a list of nested body parts, I just want the email displayed complete. Though I would be perfectly happy with a somewhat hidden way to get that list if I ever see a reason why I might care. It's an email program, just show me the email the way the sender saw it, certainly not as a list of attachments and pieces. If the sender did choose the "paperclip" to attach the file, it's not an attachment and should not appear as such. I'm not trying to understand the structure of emails, I just want to read them. -- Ira 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Most used eMail clients (was: ...working on version 9 — will essential changes be implemented? (was: The Bat! v8.8.9 MSI (3rd attempt)))
Lüko, So, to finish up as Ethan suggested, I suspect I would agree if I got a lot of email from people who use Thunderbird. I see almost none. So, for Rit, it is a design choice depending largely on their estimation of how many people use Mozilla clones. Hello everybody, on Freitag, 19. Juli 2019 at 19:54 Gleason wrote re ...working on version 9 — will essential changes be implemented? (was: The Bat! v8.8.9 MSI (3rd attempt)) > In this case, the important thing is that the system works, Fact is, that the quoting in TheBat! is broken, is utter nonsense and does not work at all. When I get a message which quotes something I had written before, TheBat! does not render the quote as a quote. And I have no means to tell for sure what is a quote and what is new text in a message, and no link to the message being quoted. Normally quotes would be identified by enclosing them with a BLOCKQUOTE or Q tag. When I use TheBat!'s broken quoting, it get's completely gobbled up until recognition. You speak about a "list of major players" meaning apparently email clients. But you mention only one of the "major players", namely Thunderbird. More often used than Thunderbird is MS Outlook, MS Outlook Express (or Live, as they call it now), and in a similar range Apple Mail, which has for Mac users the same importance as Outlook and Outlook Express for Windows users. BTW, I tried to get a statistic of the number of the various eMail clients as shown by the X-MAILER header, but the search by TheBat! does not allow to select a given header and only search the content of that header field. And I could not export my full message store to MBOX format — nothing happens, unless I select each single folder at one time, but hat is too tedious to do. And the file format of the TBB and TBN files is not known to me. Cheers, Lüko Willms Frankfurt am Main Germany using: TheBat! 8.8.2.8 (BETA) OS: Windows 7(NT 6.1 Build 7601 - Service Pack 1) CPU: AMD amd athlon(tm) 64 x2 dual core processor 4200+ MEM: 4097 MB -- Gleason 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Most used eMail clients (was: ...working on version 9 — will essential changes be implemented? (was: The Bat! v8.8.9 MSI (3rd attempt)))
Lüko, > Hello everybody, > on Freitag, 19. Juli 2019 at 19:54 Gleason wrote > re ...working on version 9 — will essential changes be implemented? > (was: The Bat! v8.8.9 MSI (3rd attempt)) > >> In this case, the important thing is that the system works, > Fact is, that the quoting in TheBat! is broken, is utter nonsense and does > not work at all. > > When I get a message which quotes something I had written before, > TheBat! does not render the quote as a quote. And I have no means to > tell for sure what is a quote and what is new text in a message, and > no link to the message being quoted. This, I think, is our misunderstanding. What you say is true when you are corresponding with somebody who uses Thunderbird. The fault is with Thunderbird, not The Bat. Thunderbird converts quoting to it's system when replying to you. And so all structure is lost. No other client does this. That means Thunderbird and Mozilla clones like Post Box. MS Outlook also does not trash The Bat's quoting. And it does trash Thunderbird's quoting. So, for instance, when I use Post Box to reply to MS Outlook, the reply I get back from Outlook has trashed quoting. Mozilla clones are not usable. > Normally quotes would be > identified by enclosing them with a BLOCKQUOTE or Q tag. > > When I use TheBat!'s broken quoting, it get's completely gobbled up until > recognition. > > You speak about a "list of major players" meaning apparently email clients. > > But you mention only one of the "major players", namely > Thunderbird. More often used than Thunderbird is MS Outlook, MS > Outlook Express (or Live, as they call it now), and in a similar > range Apple Mail, which has for Mac users the same importance as > Outlook and Outlook Express for Windows users. Those are not high performance email clients. They are clients for general users. Since general users have moved away from old style email, I can't imagine that those clients get a lot of users any more. > BTW, I tried to get a statistic of the number of the various eMail > clients as shown by the X-MAILER header, but the search by TheBat! > does not allow to select a given header and only search the content > of that header field. And I could not export my full message store > to MBOX format — nothing happens, unless I select each single folder > at one time, but hat is too tedious to do. And the file format of > the TBB and TBN files is not known to me. > > Cheers, > Lüko Willms > Frankfurt am Main > Germany > using: TheBat! 8.8.2.8 (BETA) > OS: Windows 7(NT 6.1 Build 7601 - Service Pack 1) > CPU: AMD amd athlon(tm) 64 x2 dual core processor 4200+ > MEM: 4097 MB -- Gleason 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: ...working on version 9 — will essential changes be implemented? (was: The Bat! v8.8.9 MSI (3rd attempt))
July 20, 2019 Hello Gleason, Saturday, July 20, 2019, 8:41:11 AM, you wrote: > Stop trying to make The Bat unusable. Maybe the concerns can wrapped up and put in one email. Moderator, can you please save us from this debate. It is really not helpful. Jerry -- Ethan J. Mings President, The Desk Consulting Group Inc. Enabling your organization to anticipate the future with confidence! 1-200 North Service Road W. - Suite 311 | Oakville, Ontario, Canada. L6M 2Y1 Phone 905-825-9938 or 1-877-763-7776 | e-mail supp...@thedesk.ca Website https://thedesk.ca/main 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: ...working on version 9 — will essential changes be implemented? (was: The Bat! v8.8.9 MSI (3rd attempt))
Lüko, > Hello everybody, > on Freitag, 19. Juli 2019 at 15:05 Gleason wrote > re ...working on version 9 — will essential changes be implemented? > (was: The Bat! v8.8.9 MSI (3rd attempt)) > Thunderbird - Must assign bcc by identity. Quote bar doesn't show on other clients. >>> Showing a bar to to mark a blockquote is the task of the >>> renderer. This is regulated in the CSS STYLE which does either >>> accompany the mail, or which is used by the receiving client by its default >>> STYLE. >> That's interesting. But my comment stands from my testing of different >> clients. If I send a quoted email from Thunderbird, no other client >> shows the quote bar. Only other Thunderbird installations do that. > This makes me think that you don't know anything about HTML and CSS. Yes, I do know what css is and how it shapes display. What I am saying is that, in use, my above statement is true and that is what matters. Other clients do not display Thunderbird quote bars. That makes Thunderbird unusable for me. The Bat with a similar system would also be unusable. > > But you insist on making strong statements trying to dictate the > world how use this markup language and presentation system. > > And you want that the eMail client hides to the recipient, what > is a quote from an earlier message, and provide the link to it, and > what is newly created by the author for that particular message. > HTML tags are not made to create an appearance, but they convey a > meaning. Only by tagging a piece of text as QUOTE Not if that tag makes no difference in how the quoted text is displayed. > can the recipient > know what is a quote and what not, and use the information in the > CITE parameter to the BLOCKQUOTE tag to look up the source of the quote. > > That you don't want to know what is going on, is your problem, > but you should not insist, that nobody should be able to use TheBAt! as a > sensible email client. > > From everything which you have uttered in this thread, it comes > out louder and clearer that you have no clue what HTML is and what eMail is > to be. > > But when you don't know anything about what you are talking about, then > better stay silent. > > And stop working against correcting TheBat! Stop trying to make The Bat unusable. > > Cheers, > Lüko Willms > Frankfurt am Main > Germany > using: TheBat! 8.8.2.8 (BETA) > OS: Windows 7(NT 6.1 Build 7601 - Service Pack 1) > CPU: AMD amd athlon(tm) 64 x2 dual core processor 4200+ > MEM: 4097 MB -- Gleason 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Most used eMail clients (was: ...working on version 9 — will essential changes be implemented? (was: The Bat! v8.8.9 MSI (3rd attempt)))
Hello everybody, on Freitag, 19. Juli 2019 at 19:54 Gleason wrote re ...working on version 9 — will essential changes be implemented? (was: The Bat! v8.8.9 MSI (3rd attempt)) > In this case, the important thing is that the system works, Fact is, that the quoting in TheBat! is broken, is utter nonsense and does not work at all. When I get a message which quotes something I had written before, TheBat! does not render the quote as a quote. And I have no means to tell for sure what is a quote and what is new text in a message, and no link to the message being quoted. Normally quotes would be identified by enclosing them with a BLOCKQUOTE or Q tag. When I use TheBat!'s broken quoting, it get's completely gobbled up until recognition. You speak about a "list of major players" meaning apparently email clients. But you mention only one of the "major players", namely Thunderbird. More often used than Thunderbird is MS Outlook, MS Outlook Express (or Live, as they call it now), and in a similar range Apple Mail, which has for Mac users the same importance as Outlook and Outlook Express for Windows users. BTW, I tried to get a statistic of the number of the various eMail clients as shown by the X-MAILER header, but the search by TheBat! does not allow to select a given header and only search the content of that header field. And I could not export my full message store to MBOX format — nothing happens, unless I select each single folder at one time, but hat is too tedious to do. And the file format of the TBB and TBN files is not known to me. Cheers, Lüko Willms Frankfurt am Main Germany using: TheBat! 8.8.2.8 (BETA) OS: Windows 7(NT 6.1 Build 7601 - Service Pack 1) CPU: AMD amd athlon(tm) 64 x2 dual core processor 4200+ MEM: 4097 MB 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: ...working on version 9 — will essential changes be implemented? (was: The Bat! v8.8.9 MSI (3rd attempt))
Lüko Willms: > Hello everybody, > > on Freitag, 12. Juli 2019 at 01:22 Maxim Masiutin via TBBETA > wrote > re The Bat! v8.8.9 MSI (3rd attempt) > > > we are now working on version 9 > >essential changes like these for proper quoting in HTML-Mails, more than > two years old: > 1216: HTML viewer does not render BLOCKQUOTE > 1217: While replying to an HTML message, quoting should be done by > BLOCKQUOTE, not by TABLE I myself could use a new plain text editor. One with working undo/redo function, among other things. -- Windows 7 Home Premium 64 SP 1 The Bat! Voyager Professional Edition 8.2.4.3 (OTFE) The Bat! Professional Edition 8.6.0.12 (BETA) (64-bit) (OTFE) Luca - e-mail: p.stevens at libero.it 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: ...working on version 9 — will essential changes be implemented? (was: The Bat! v8.8.9 MSI (3rd attempt))
Hello everybody, on Freitag, 19. Juli 2019 at 15:05 Gleason wrote re ...working on version 9 — will essential changes be implemented? (was: The Bat! v8.8.9 MSI (3rd attempt)) >>> Thunderbird - Must assign bcc by identity. Quote bar doesn't show on other >>> clients. >> Showing a bar to to mark a blockquote is the task of the >> renderer. This is regulated in the CSS STYLE which does either >> accompany the mail, or which is used by the receiving client by its default >> STYLE. > That's interesting. But my comment stands from my testing of different > clients. If I send a quoted email from Thunderbird, no other client > shows the quote bar. Only other Thunderbird installations do that. This makes me think that you don't know anything about HTML and CSS. But you insist on making strong statements trying to dictate the world how use this markup language and presentation system. And you want that the eMail client hides to the recipient, what is a quote from an earlier message, and provide the link to it, and what is newly created by the author for that particular message. HTML tags are not made to create an appearance, but they convey a meaning. Only by tagging a piece of text as QUOTE can the recipient know what is a quote and what not, and use the information in the CITE parameter to the BLOCKQUOTE tag to look up the source of the quote. That you don't want to know what is going on, is your problem, but you should not insist, that nobody should be able to use TheBAt! as a sensible email client. From everything which you have uttered in this thread, it comes out louder and clearer that you have no clue what HTML is and what eMail is to be. But when you don't know anything about what you are talking about, then better stay silent. And stop working against correcting TheBat! Cheers, Lüko Willms Frankfurt am Main Germany using: TheBat! 8.8.2.8 (BETA) OS: Windows 7(NT 6.1 Build 7601 - Service Pack 1) CPU: AMD amd athlon(tm) 64 x2 dual core processor 4200+ MEM: 4097 MB 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: ...working on version 9 — will essential changes be implemented? (was: The Bat! v8.8.9 MSI (3rd attempt))
Hello everybody, on Samstag, 20. Juli 2019 at 01:00 Ira wrote re ...working on version 9 — will essential changes be implemented? (was: The Bat! v8.8.9 MSI (3rd attempt)) stop showing emails without attachments as having a dozen or more attachments. I can live with messed up display, but having to dig through a list of attachment or tabs of different types of text only to discover I'd already read it all is absurd. TheBat!'s error is to treat each and every body part as an "attachment". Attachment are only those with "content-disposition: attachment", not content parts to be shown inline, which is marked with the parameter "content-disposition: inline". TheBAt! should have two separate lists, selectable by a TAB, one of the real attachments, the other the nested list of all body parts. Cheers, Lüko Willms Frankfurt am Main Germany using: TheBat! 8.8.2.8 (BETA) OS: Windows 7(NT 6.1 Build 7601 - Service Pack 1) CPU: AMD amd athlon(tm) 64 x2 dual core processor 4200+ MEM: 4097 MB 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
