Re[2]: Boycott then purchase of V3
MB I am so sorry. I followed with great concern how your difficulties MB with TB! v. 2.12.00 were possibly losing e-mails that related to your MB job search. MB I do with all my heart wish you well. Perhaps the global economy will MB take a turn upward soon, and a rising tide lift all boats. MB If not, I hope you will find a job soon, anyway. Thanks :-) -- WilWilWil :flag-france: TB 3.0.1.33 BayesIt! 0.7.3 Windows XP Service Pack 1 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[5]: Boycott then purchase of V3
Hello WilWilWil, Thursday, October 28, 2004, 4:58:36 PM, you wrote: M3 There is *NO* bug free software that is as complicated as an email M3 client. OE has bugs, Eudora has bugs, Agent Mail has bugs, pegusus M3 has bugs ... see a pattern here? g W I agree with you but you don't have to pay for all this W softwares... My opinion is that it's more easy to ignore bugs when W the soft is free. And imagine you accept idea of bugs, you don't W accept idea of not having support for a soft you've paid. Perhaps, but in terms of bugs per buck there are programs like ... Microsoft windows, Office, outlook express, internet explorer and others that I had to spend **LOTS** more money to acquire that have as many or more bugs than TB did for me. But of course, based on the message traffic here and in the beta site, there were people that had a lot more problems than I did. So the number and severity of the problems that you had could certainly affect your perception of the issue g -- Best regards, MikeDmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! v3.0.2.1 on Windows ME 4.90 Build 3000 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Boycott then purchase of V3
Hello Mary, Friday, October 29, 2004, 2:16:49 AM, you wrote: MB Hello JM! MB On Thursday, October 28, 2004, 6:40 PM, you wrote: MB But fully functional later, at which point the announcement said MB that SecureBat as a stand-alone would be discontinued. That is MB some way into the future, I imagine. zzc Just curious. Will that be in v3.x? OR after v3? MB It is already in v. 3.xx Pro. MB Here's what the RitLabs website says: MB http://www.ritlabs.com/en/products/thebat/diff.php MB Possibility for hardware authentication with mail servers - + In the MB current version only eToken Pro is supported. From November 30, 2004 MB we plan to support iKey 1000 as well. In future The Bat! will support MB other hardware authentication keys. MB Message base encryption - + ...will be available starting November 30, MB 2004. MB Biometric authentication - + ...through Dekart BIO API. MB Stefan Tanurkov's October 14 post to tbbeta implies that at some point MB SecureBat will be discontinued. V. 3.xx Professional replaces it. MB This is as well as I can understand the various announcements and MB statements YMMV :) Sounds good Mary. I don't even notice the difference between v2 and 3 besides the icons. So the upgrade price was a 'waste of money' for me; besides keeping an alternative for Outlook alive. But step by step integration of SecureBat features makes it worthwhile for me. If message base encryption means that incoming PGP messages are stored as plain text I'm a very happy man :) -- Best regards, Tony Why do birds bob their heads when they walk? Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[6]: Boycott then purchase of V3
M3 Microsoft windows, Office, outlook express, internet explorer and M3 others that I had to spend **LOTS** more money to acquire that have as M3 many or more bugs than TB did for me. You've got the point ! ;-) -- WilWilWil :flag-france: TB 3.0.1.33 BayesIt! 0.7.3 Windows XP Service Pack 1 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Boycott then purchase of V3
Hello Group On Wednesday, October 27, 2004, 11:47:18 PM, wrote: MB Hello WilWilWil! MB On Wednesday, October 27, 2004, 5:33 PM, you wrote, in part: W So good developers team with so pitiful sales service... MB Yes. But something got through to them between the almost immediate, MB very bad response to MFPA and the weeks-later rude offering to you of MB a substantial discount for the Upgrade fee. MB So perhaps there's hope? MB I hope MFPA will go to that link which you posted and get v. 3.0.1.33. MB It's deserved, and as you and I just agreed, WilWilWil, only right MB that someone who's used v. 2.12.00 for only 2 weeks before the v. 3.0 MB announcement should have it. [snipped] I d/l v2.x, installed and used it for five days then registered it on 28th August 2004, the email containing the key is dated 28 August 2004, 16:52:16. I emailed sales, reminded them 2 weeks later then 2 weeks after that I found a different email address on their web site and forwarded my earlier mails to that address. I was offered, and accepted, the same discount as WilWilWil. I wasn't delighted but for the sake of a few Euros I didn't think it was worth pursuing, not that I had any grounds for so doing except for goodwill. I have, however, been treated very much better by other s/w companies in similar situations in the past (Borland being worth a mention, they know what goodwill means). So, I don't know if I was the closest to registering just before the new version but they seem to be treating us consistently. (If I had taken advantage of the full thirty day trial I could have had v3 as my first version). To be fair when this fuss first blew up somebody did say that Ritlabs would come up with 'something' -- Jeff Gaines Damerham Hampshire UK :Jeff_Gaines: Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Boycott then purchase of V3
Hello Jeff! On Thursday, October 28, 2004, 3:35 AM, you wrote, in part: JG ... I don't know if I was the closest to registering just before JG the new version but they seem to be treating us consistently. (If JG I had taken advantage of the full thirty day trial I could have JG had v3 as my first version). To be fair when this fuss first blew JG up somebody did say that Ritlabs would come up with 'something' All I can say is that I hope this was a good learning experience for the Sales team and they will have a better policy in place before they put a charge in place for the next upgrade. And that they will advertise this policy clearly on the main page of their website and in the e-mail notifications one can sign up for there. -- Best regards, Mary The Bat! 3.0.2.2 Rush on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[3]: Boycott then purchase of V3
Hello WilWilWil, Wednesday, October 27, 2004, 5:33:35 PM, you wrote: M You fared better than I did. I emailed Ritlabs on 4th September, having M purchased my version 2 licence on 20th August. They only took two M days to reply to me with:- RL You are not obliged to upgrade to the 3.xx version. W Wrong : bugs are debug only in V3 now, and user of V2 are alone with their problems... Well FWIW, I have to say that ver 2.12 was pretty damned stable for me and most users. There were features that were never added and a few problems with some of the less commonly used features (IMAP PGP, for example). But I could have (and considered) used it for the foreseeable future. RL The Bat! version that you purchased is fully functional and has no time RL limit in using. W Fully functional ? Wrong again ! I prefer understood fully W bugged functional. And what about support ? There is *NO* bug free software that is as complicated as an email client. OE has bugs, Eudora has bugs, Agent Mail has bugs, pegusus has bugs ... see a pattern here? g In the 3 or 4 years that I have been using TB, I have never had to contact Support on a technical issue. So I was not worried about the lack of support. RL limit in using. Upgrading is optional. W Such a strangely advice from a commercial company ! W So good developers team with so pitiful sales service... Yeah ... but consider the opposite ... great marketing / lousy developers. I have run into too many of those. I prefer the RIT formula ... even if it does make me mad some times g W My latest boss always says It's no necessary to have the best W product : in 3rd millennium, customer want just a correct product W but with maximum of powerful services and support. W I prefer driving a little car and having the good garage for W services. What is utility of having a Formula One if nobody can do W the MAINTENANCE ? W Problem : with The Bat, I have tasted Formula One and can't W imagine go back to my moped ! :-) :-) :-) You can stay on 2.12. If you don't need the things that they never got working reliably, it works remarkably well and is stable as all get out. I considered that, but in the end (just this week, in fact) I decided that the cost was so minimal for the improvements that I decided to go ahead and upgrage. -- Best regards, MikeDmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! v3.0.2.1 on Windows ME 4.90 Build 3000 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Boycott then purchase of V3
Hello z5worg, Wednesday, October 27, 2004, 10:20:45 PM, you wrote: zzc Wednesday, October 27, 2004, WilWilWil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: zzc I bought v2 last January; but haven't really used it yet. I just zzc installed it on a new computer last week. I am still using v1.62. What zzc kinds of bugs are there in v2? Serious bugs? zzc I just send and receive emails, filtering into different folders, very zzc elementary macros. Should I just stayed with v.162 and forget about zzc v2.12? I had great performance with 2.12. It worked fine, never gave me any problems ... well during the beta testing of various BayesIt beta versions I did have an occasional error and a couple of crashes, but TB was stable as a rock otherwise. -- Best regards, MikeDmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! v3.0.2.1 on Windows ME 4.90 Build 3000 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Boycott then purchase of V3
Hello WilWilWil, Wednesday, October 27, 2004, 6:55:08 PM, you wrote: W ==Original message text=== W From: Alexander S. Kunz [EMAIL PROTECTED] W To: WilWilWil [EMAIL PROTECTED] W Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2004, 5:58:56 PM W Subject: Boycott then purchase of V3 ASK Yes. However, the link was originally only published on the TBBETA list; ASK I'd say anyone who uses this link to buy, while not being a registered beta ASK tester at Ritlabs, does not buy a legal license. Its a question of decency ASK as well. W You're right and I agree with that. The Ritlabs page was not W clear with that : I'm sorry to have post this link on the list... I think it's perfectly legal. On www.ritlabs.com click on upgrade to v3. Everyone gets the beta tester price. They even give a 59 cent discount on the student version :-) -- Best regards, Tony Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Boycott then purchase of V3
Hello [EMAIL PROTECTED] everyone else 28-Okt-2004 05:20, you wrote: I just send and receive emails, filtering into different folders, very elementary macros. Should I just stayed with v.162 and forget about v2.12? Since you already asked about PGP here, v2 is a good choice, the PGP support is better than in v1 (for example PGP/MIME support, IIRC that was introduced with v2, v1 only supported inline PGP encoding). -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) using v3.0.1.33 on Windows XP Pro Service Pack 2 without smilies :-P All elevated thinking ends in a sigh. -- Paul Valery Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Boycott then purchase of V3
Hello List, Thursday, October 28, 2004, 6:09:59 PM, you wrote: T Hello WilWilWil, T Wednesday, October 27, 2004, 6:55:08 PM, you wrote: W ==Original message text=== W From: Alexander S. Kunz [EMAIL PROTECTED] W To: WilWilWil [EMAIL PROTECTED] W Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2004, 5:58:56 PM W Subject: Boycott then purchase of V3 ASK Yes. However, the link was originally only published on the TBBETA list; ASK I'd say anyone who uses this link to buy, while not being a registered beta ASK tester at Ritlabs, does not buy a legal license. Its a question of decency ASK as well. W You're right and I agree with that. The Ritlabs page was not W clear with that : I'm sorry to have post this link on the list... T I think it's perfectly legal. T On www.ritlabs.com click on upgrade to v3. T Everyone gets the beta tester price. T They even give a 59 cent discount on the student version :-) Next time I try to wake up before replying :P Please forget the message. Ritlabs handles their sales a bit funny. Everyone can get a upgrade copy. There are no checks if you have a current legal version. A little more advanced key scheme would be better for users. Embed a date in the key. You start with a 100% discount on the upgrade price. Every month 10% ticks away. Maybe starting with a 2 month grace period. Or just simply 12 months free upgrades. Minor or major versions. OTOH hand I think somewhere on the site they mention that the price is for free updates excluding the next major release. So you get what you are promised. Did I understand it correctly that the functionality of SecureBat gets moved into TB Pro V3.x? -- Best regards, Tony Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Boycott then purchase of V3
Hello Tony! On Thursday, October 28, 2004, 11:32 AM, you wrote: T Did I understand it correctly that the functionality of SecureBat T gets moved into TB Pro V3.x? Yes. Available to be used only with tokens (I don't know what that is or how it works) at present. But fully functional later, at which point the announcement said that SecureBat as a stand-alone would be discontinued. That is some way into the future, I imagine. -- Best regards, Mary The Bat! (Professional Edition) 3.0.2.2 Rush on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Boycott then purchase of V3
Hello Mary, Thursday, October 28, 2004, 6:44:28 PM, you wrote: MB Hello Tony! MB On Thursday, October 28, 2004, 11:32 AM, you wrote: T Did I understand it correctly that the functionality of SecureBat T gets moved into TB Pro V3.x? MB Yes. Available to be used only with tokens (I don't know what that MB is or how it works) Tokens are little hardware keys. They come into several forms. - USB tokens like The cheapest solution. http://www.tw.rainbow.com/ikey/ikey1000_hw.html - Card readers. Often use to access (certain parts of) a office. - Biometrics. Only your thumb on the mouse will open TB! The tokens and cards contains randomly generated passwords with a complexity that goes far above what the human mind can remember. The strengths of those passwords match the strength of PGP. PGP/SecureBat! is like a vault with 1 meter thick steel walls. You hold the key/password. Password 1 or Mary doesn't exactly match the security offered by the vault. A really good key takes as long to guess as it takes to break down the steel wall. They keys can hold more then one password (depending on the keys type) So one key could give you access to for example. Your PGP keyring, TB!, windows login, a PIM. MB at present. But fully functional later, at which MB point the announcement said that SecureBat as a stand-alone would be MB discontinued. That is some way into the future, I imagine. Can you give me the URL of that article please. Until now I've just heard it in the 'gossip circuit' :P -- Best regards, Tony Make it too tough for the enemy to get in and you can't get out. Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Boycott then purchase of V3
Hello Tony! On Thursday, October 28, 2004, 12:07 PM, you wrote: T Did I understand it correctly that the functionality of SecureBat T gets moved into TB Pro V3.x? MB Yes. Available to be used only with tokens (I don't know what that MB is or how it works) explanation of tokens snipped Thank you so very much for the clear explanation. It makes me doubly glad that I decided to get the Pro edition. MB at present. But fully functional later, at which point the MB announcement said that SecureBat as a stand-alone would be MB discontinued. That is some way into the future, I imagine. T Can you give me the URL of that article please. T Until now I've just heard it in the 'gossip circuit' :P Here's the comparison page on RitLabs website. I'll do a search of my archives here on this machine, of tbbeta, tbot, and tbudl for the info about SecureBat being phased out. I know it was discussed in all three lists at one point or another last month, when v. 3.0 was launched. http://www.ritlabs.com/en/products/thebat/diff.php -- Best regards, Mary The Bat! (Professional Edition) 3.0.2.2 Rush on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Boycott then purchase of V3
Hello Tony! On Thursday, October 28, 2004, 12:07 PM, you wrote: MB the announcement said that SecureBat as a stand-alone would be MB discontinued. That is some way into the future, I imagine. T Can you give me the URL of that article please. In addition to the comparison of features on the RitLabs website, the URL of which I posted earlier, I found this comment from Stefan Tanurkov on tbbeta, mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] It's a reply to Thomas Woelk ... on Thursday, October 14, 2004, 12:25:48 AM (Thu, 14 Oct 2004 08:25:48 +0300), Subject line: Re[2]: The Bat! 3.0.1 Beta cycle finished Begin complete quote of message: == - [...] - Adding message base encryption to the Professional Edition - [...] TW This means, that at least Ritlabs is going to publish a TB version TW with fully enabled SecureBat! functions and other promised TW features? The Bat! Professional should replace SecureBat! As a matter of fact, the Pro version already supports a subset of SB! features (working with tokens). == End quote of message from Stefan Tanurkov ... (RITLABS Inc.) -- Best regards, Mary The Bat! 3.0.2.2 Rush on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Boycott then purchase of V3
zzc I bought v2 last January; but haven't really used it yet. I just zzc installed it on a new computer last week. I am still using v1.62. What zzc kinds of bugs are there in v2? Serious bugs? Serious bugs in V2 solve in V3 seem to be for me but not for all users : 1- TB freeze for 2 or 3 minutes when I launch it and computer was unavailable : no problem anymore with V3 2- Big difficulties with writing HTML message in V2 : no problem anymore with V3 3- Filters did strange kill with wanted messages in V2 : no problem anymore with V3 4- French speller doesn't work for me in V2 : no problem anymore with V3 (except adding a new word in dictionary that work in Plain Text but not in HTML mode) 5- Problem in V2 with some special french accentuated characters on receipt : no problem anymore with V3 Serious bug for my using on my opinion, but not necessary real problem for everybody. And it seems that not a lot of persons had these problems with V2... So I think you just have to try V2 (but I think V3 is a better choice) and make your self opinion. I learn with TB IT, and this List that problem can result of compatibility between TB and some systems. Each computer and configuration is different from each other, so not sure you will have problem. And I have perfected my configuration in the same time that I have move to V3. SO now, I'm circumspect before saying TB is guilty. Maybe my system and all tests and practises I do with it are guilty... I'm perhaps guilty... Any way, TB is the better soft for my need. -- WilWilWil :flag-france: TB 3.0.1.33 BayesIt! 0.7.3 Windows XP Service Pack 1 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[4]: Boycott then purchase of V3
M3 There is *NO* bug free software that is as complicated as an email M3 client. OE has bugs, Eudora has bugs, Agent Mail has bugs, pegusus M3 has bugs ... see a pattern here? g I agree with you but you don't have to pay for all this softwares... My opinion is that it's more easy to ignore bugs when the soft is free. And imagine you accept idea of bugs, you don't accept idea of not having support for a soft you've paid. -- WilWilWil :flag-france: TB 3.0.1.33 BayesIt! 0.7.3 Windows XP Service Pack 1 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Boycott then purchase of V3
MB Latest? Does that mean you finally found a job? Or do you mean MB latest in the sense of last? Last in the sense of when I had a job ! I do not have a new job at this time... :-( -- WilWilWil :flag-france: TB 3.0.1.33 BayesIt! 0.7.3 Windows XP Service Pack 1 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Boycott then purchase of V3
MB All I can say is that I hope this was a good learning experience for MB the Sales team If not, they are masochistic ! ;-) -- WilWilWil :flag-france: TB 3.0.1.33 BayesIt! 0.7.3 Windows XP Service Pack 1 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Boycott then purchase of V3
Hello WilWilWil! On Thursday, October 28, 2004, 5:01 PM, you wrote: MB Latest? Does that mean you finally found a job? Or do you mean MB latest in the sense of last? W Last in the sense of when I had a job ! I do not have a new job at W this time... :-( I am so sorry. I followed with great concern how your difficulties with TB! v. 2.12.00 were possibly losing e-mails that related to your job search. I do with all my heart wish you well. Perhaps the global economy will take a turn upward soon, and a rising tide lift all boats. If not, I hope you will find a job soon, anyway. -- Best regards, Mary The Bat! 3.0.2.2 Rush on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Boycott then purchase of V3
Hello WilWilWil! On Thursday, October 28, 2004, 5:04 PM, you wrote: MB All I can say is that I hope this was a good learning experience for MB the Sales team W If not, they are masochistic ! ;-) Then let us hope they are normal haters of pain and will keep more open communications with their customers in the future. :) -- Best regards, Mary The Bat! 3.0.2.2 Rush on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Boycott then purchase of V3
Hello JM! On Thursday, October 28, 2004, 6:40 PM, you wrote: MB But fully functional later, at which point the announcement said MB that SecureBat as a stand-alone would be discontinued. That is MB some way into the future, I imagine. zzc Just curious. Will that be in v3.x? OR after v3? It is already in v. 3.xx Pro. Here's what the RitLabs website says: http://www.ritlabs.com/en/products/thebat/diff.php Possibility for hardware authentication with mail servers - + In the current version only eToken Pro is supported. From November 30, 2004 we plan to support iKey 1000 as well. In future The Bat! will support other hardware authentication keys. Message base encryption - + ...will be available starting November 30, 2004. Biometric authentication - + ...through Dekart BIO API. Stefan Tanurkov's October 14 post to tbbeta implies that at some point SecureBat will be discontinued. V. 3.xx Professional replaces it. This is as well as I can understand the various announcements and statements YMMV :) -- Best regards, Mary The Bat! (Professional Edition) 3.0.2.2 Rush on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Boycott then purchase of V3
I have just ordered V3 Pro! I am sure not to exploit the advantages of the Pro, but indeed, 2 EUR is noy so lot. And perhaps other advantageous functions will be available and only for Pro version I wanted to boycott this purchase, because I had asked for a free renewal of my V2 licence towards V3 because it had less than 3 months. Boycott, because Ritlabs did not answer me. Today they answered me. 1 month of waiting for the answer. Free Update Refused! But at least they answered. Of course, no hello, no thanks, no courtesy or consideration of the customer. But nevertheless, they proposed to me a special offer only for me at 15,75 EUR for the Pro. Here the complete copy of their very rich answer: Ritlabs We cannot give you a free licence. We can add to the 30% discount to the existing 50% discount. (15,75 EUR) Ritlabs Ritlabs address: https://secure.element5.com/esales/cart.html?PRODUCT[5423.. Nice, isnt it? Then I ve run and I bought V3! Now I am irritated a little, because this morning I see the information of Denis (TB-FR) concerning the preferential rate (www.ritlabs.com/upgrade-privilege-pro.html) and I know now that Ritlabs didnt offer me a commercial pleasure to me. Everyone can keep this low price ! Ive been misled by fine words! A commercial prowess and an exploit in the communication of Ritlabs. Bugs strongly handicapping me in V2 are corrected in V3. Did I have really the choice? My trial version finished this evening. And to leave TB it is too heavy for me (files of 7000 mails, 50 rules of sorting, bayesit which makes finally its job after 4 months of training, and my plugin AVG7 which correctly quarantines virused mails (except 1 this week). Note: 1 --- I do not encourage the hacking, I even denounce it. But I can understand that some people do not pay any more by default, and seek free serials on Internet. If they lived on several occasions the silence of the editors in the event of problem on a paid product, they can be frustrated and sink in the spiral of the systematic hacking. 2 --- Imagine a paid license TBV2 which gives you right for free assistance only on your version! My TB V2 lasted less than 3 months! A little expensive, not? Today, the support user and the quality of the customer service are the principal arguments of the retailers, editors and even of the BSA to encourage with the purchase of legal license. Within Belgian campaign, here what says the BSA on its site (FR) http://www.nevouslaissezpasprendreaujeu.be/waarom.html : BSA In the event of problem, the editor provides you a service extended after the sale (guaranteed, service of assistance, etc). In the majority of the cases, you also have right BSA to the intermediate updates, in order to be sure always to work with the last version. Stop of polemic! Can my contribution and my 15 EUR enable them to improve TB and to mature their trade relationship. -- WilWilWil :flag-France: TB 3.0.1.33 BayesIt! 0.7.3 Windows XP Service Pack 1 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Boycott then purchase of V3
Hello Wil, Wednesday, October 27, 2004, 2:37:49 PM, you wrote: Now I am irritated a little, because this morning I see the information of Denis (TB-FR) concerning the preferential rate (www.ritlabs.com/upgrade-privilege-pro.html) and I know now that Ritlabs didnt offer me a commercial pleasure to me. Everyone can keep this low price ! Ive been misled by fine words! A commercial prowess and an exploit in the communication of Ritlabs. That priviledge update is for beta testers only. -- Best regards, Alexandermailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Boycott then purchase of V3
Hello WilWilWil! On Wednesday, October 27, 2004, 7:37 AM, you wrote, in part: W Can my contribution and my 15 EUR enable them to improve TB and to W mature their trade relationship. I fully appreciate your frustrations and was pleased to read what you referred to as your polemic. And as you've been informed in another Reply to this thread, you were given the extra discount which RitLabs extended to its beta testers. Doesn't make the way your correspondence was handled any better, of course. In defense of RitLabs, 1) They truly are a very small company. They are writing in a language which is a foreign language to them when they write in English. And I think French is also a foreign language to them. 2) There is a different set of people handling Sales from the set of people handling the programming. 3) In the time which has followed the too-early release of v. 3.0, the programmers themselves have been most responsive to those who have been posting to them on the tbbeta list, or who have been sending individual private-mail messages to their names at RitLabs. 4) Improvements still further than v. 3.0.1.33 are being worked on, aiming at a Christmas Edition full release. Since you are trying so hard, WilWilWil, and--as I observe here--daily trying to upgrade your computer skills (just like me) and your proficiency in the use of The Bat! (just like me)-- Since you are indeed trying so hard and bending over backwards to be gracious to everyone, I would encourage you to subscribe to the tbbeta list and read there for awhile and post there, if you want to. One does not have to be running a beta version of The Bat! to be a member of the tbbeta list. Go to http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html and scroll down for a button that will help you subscribe. That URL (link) is at the bottom of every tbudl post. But I thought I'd put it in the body of my message to you with my suggestion that you subscribe to tbbeta, because it is often overlooked or forgotten. Sometimes the amount of help and where to get it can be overwhelming to a person's brain--it can be to mine, for sure!--and I myself appreciate people's suggestions of where I can get help. So I hope you'll click on that URL and have a look. :) -- Best regards, Mary The Bat! 3.0.2.1 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Boycott then purchase of V3
ASK That priviledge update is for beta testers only. Sure ? Beta testers or not, anybody can click on this link and obtain such price. No password, no control... Click and you are redirected to pavement on Element5 Site... -- WilWilWil :flag-france: TB 3.0.1.33 BayesIt! 0.7.3 Windows XP Service Pack 1 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Boycott then purchase of V3
MB Hello WilWilWil! Hello Mary Bull MB In defense of RitLabs, MB 1) They truly are a very small company. They are writing in a language MB which is a foreign language to them when they write in English. And I MB think French is also a foreign language to them. Yes, but Ritlabs was very good in English when they have answered to my questions before buy. So good answer and quick answer that I decide to order because I was sure there was a real support for users. Just disappointed that Ritlabs loose its English and reactivity after order... And I'm not sure hello and sincerely are so difficult words... And if Ritlabs is a small cie, be sure I'm just a little french customer who make maximum to write in english... MB 4) Improvements still further than v. 3.0.1.33 are being worked on, MB aiming at a Christmas Edition full release. Good news ! :-) MB Since you are trying so hard, WilWilWil, and--as I observe here--daily MB trying to upgrade your computer skills (just like me) and your MB proficiency in the use of The Bat! (just like me)-- MB Since you are indeed trying so hard and bending over backwards to be MB gracious to everyone, I would encourage you to subscribe to the tbbeta MB list and read there for awhile and post there, if you want to. Just done. I'll be aware. MB So I hope you'll click on that URL and have a look. :) Subscribe done :-) PS : a little disappointed with Ritlabs behavior, but completely enthusiastic with the soft TB and help of members of TB lists (TBUL, TB-FR, TBTECH). That's the reason why I've just order again. I just pray for my new license is valid more than 3 months... -- WilWilWil :flag-france: TB 3.0.1.33 BayesIt! 0.7.3 Windows XP Service Pack 1 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Boycott then purchase of V3
Hello WilWilWil everyone else 27-Okt-2004 17:21, you wrote: ASK That priviledge update is for beta testers only. Sure ? Beta testers or not, anybody can click on this link and obtain such price. No password, no control... Click and you are redirected to pavement on Element5 Site... Yes. However, the link was originally only published on the TBBETA list; I'd say anyone who uses this link to buy, while not being a registered beta tester at Ritlabs, does not buy a legal license. Its a question of decency as well. -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) using v3.0.2.1 on Windows XP Pro Service Pack 2 without smilies :-P The present, like a note in music, is nothing but as it appertains to what is past and what is to come. -- Walter Savage Landor Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Boycott then purchase of V3
Hello WilWilWil! On Wednesday, October 27, 2004, 10:43 AM, you wrote, in part: MB Since you are indeed trying so hard and bending over backwards to MB be gracious to everyone, I would encourage you to subscribe to MB the tbbeta list and read there for awhile and post there, if you MB want to. W Just done. I'll be aware. So, welcome. :) MB So I hope you'll click on that URL and have a look. :) W Subscribe done :-) W PS : a little disappointed with Ritlabs behavior, ... Yes, I do understand that, and I am disappointed, too, on your behalf and that of others who've had a bad experience with the company. W ... but completely enthusiastic with the soft TB and help of W members of TB lists (TBUL, TB-FR, TBTECH). That's the reason why W I've just order again. ... Oh, yes! This is the greatest on-line community I have ever found. :) W ... I just pray for my new license is valid more than 3 months... Amen to that. With others, I suspect that RitLabs is trying to move toward an annual license renewal. Not unreasonable, but they should be more open with their customers about it, I think. Anyway, like you, I'm hanging in there because: 1) TB! is such a great e-mail client--truly the best I've ever found 2) and because the programmers are such able and responsive people 3) and because (contrary to others' experience) I have always had a prompt reply from Sales and been treated completely fairly. -- Best regards, Mary The Bat! 3.0.2.1 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Boycott then purchase of V3
Hi Alexander, I'd say anyone who uses this link to buy, while not being a registered beta tester at Ritlabs, does not buy a legal license. Normally, yes. But Ritlabs told him to use the link as far as I understand. So it should be legal. -- Regards, Raymund Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Boycott then purchase of V3
==Original message text=== From: Alexander S. Kunz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WilWilWil [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2004, 5:58:56 PM Subject: Boycott then purchase of V3 ASK Yes. However, the link was originally only published on the TBBETA list; ASK I'd say anyone who uses this link to buy, while not being a registered beta ASK tester at Ritlabs, does not buy a legal license. Its a question of decency ASK as well. You're right and I agree with that. The Ritlabs page was not clear with that : I'm sorry to have post this link on the list... -- WilWilWil :flag-france: TB 3.0.1.33 BayesIt! 0.7.3 Windows XP Service Pack 1 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Boycott then purchase of V3
RTT Normally, yes. But Ritlabs told him to use the link as far as I RTT understand. So it should be legal. Not exactly. Ritlabs give me a special link to order :https://secure.element5.com/esales/cart.html?PRODUCT[5423... But I've seen a public link on Ritlabs SIte found by a TB-FR list member. The link which propose same privilege offer... -- WilWilWil :flag-france: TB 3.0.1.33 BayesIt! 0.7.3 Windows XP Service Pack 1 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Boycott then purchase of V3
Hi On Wednesday, 27 October, 2004, at 1:37:49 PM, WilWilWil wrote: I have just ordered V3 Pro! [...] I wanted to boycott this purchase, because I had asked for a free renewal of my V2 licence towards V3 because it had less than 3 months. Boycott, because Ritlabs did not answer me. Today they answered me. 1 month of waiting for the answer. Free Update Refused! But at least they answered. Of course, no hello, no thanks, no courtesy or consideration of the customer. But nevertheless, they proposed to me a special offer only for me at 15,75 EUR for the Pro. Here the complete copy of their very rich answer: Ritlabs We cannot give you a free licence. We can Ritlabs add to the 30% discount to the existing 50% discount. Ritlabs (15,75 EUR) Ritlabs Ritlabs address: Ritlabs https://secure.element5.com/esales/cart.html?PRODUCT[5423.. You fared better than I did. I emailed Ritlabs on 4th September, having purchased my version 2 licence on 20th August. They only took two days to reply to me with:- RL You are not obliged to upgrade to the 3.xx version. The RL Bat! version that you purchased is fully functional and has no time RL limit in using. Upgrading is optional. At least I got Hello and Best regards. -- Best regards, MFPAmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! v2.12.00 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Boycott then purchase of V3
Hello MFPA! On Wednesday, October 27, 2004, 4:15 PM, you wrote: RL You are not obliged to upgrade to the 3.xx version. The Bat! RL version that you purchased is fully functional and has no time RL limit in using. Upgrading is optional. M At least I got Hello and Best regards. I remember. So, if you still want v. 3.0.1.33, go to the link that WilWilWil posted and get it for a very small further investment? In my opinion, it is absolutely only fair for you to have it under the same terms as those offered to WilWilWil! -- Best regards, Mary The Bat! 3.0.2.2 Rush on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Boycott then purchase of V3
MB So, if you still want v. 3.0.1.33, go to the link that WilWilWil MB posted and get it for a very small further investment? MB In my opinion, it is absolutely only fair for you to have it under the MB same terms as those offered to WilWilWil! Good and equitable way... :-) -- WilWilWil :flag-france: TB 3.0.1.33 BayesIt! 0.7.3 Windows XP Service Pack 1 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Boycott then purchase of V3
Hello WilWilWil! On Wednesday, October 27, 2004, 5:18 PM, you wrote: MB In my opinion, it is absolutely only fair for you to have it MB under the same terms as those offered to WilWilWil! After only 2 weeks or 3 months, respectively, use of v. 2.12.00. W Good and equitable way... :-) Right on! :) -- Best regards, Mary The Bat! 3.0.2.2 Rush on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Boycott then purchase of V3
M You fared better than I did. I emailed Ritlabs on 4th September, having M purchased my version 2 licence on 20th August. They only took two M days to reply to me with:- RL You are not obliged to upgrade to the 3.xx version. Wrong : bugs are debug only in V3 now, and user of V2 are alone with their problems... RL The Bat! version that you purchased is fully functional and has no time RL limit in using. Fully functional ? Wrong again ! I prefer understood fully bugged functional. And what about support ? RL limit in using. Upgrading is optional. Such a strangely advice from a commercial company ! So good developers team with so pitiful sales service... My latest boss always says It's no necessary to have the best product : in 3rd millennium, customer want just a correct product but with maximum of powerful services and support. I prefer driving a little car and having the good garage for services. What is utility of having a Formula One if nobody can do the MAINTENANCE ? Problem : with The Bat, I have tasted Formula One and can't imagine go back to my moped ! :-) :-) :-) -- WilWilWil :flag-france: TB 3.0.1.33 BayesIt! 0.7.3 Windows XP Service Pack 1 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Boycott then purchase of V3
Hello WilWilWil! On Wednesday, October 27, 2004, 5:33 PM, you wrote, in part: W So good developers team with so pitiful sales service... Yes. But something got through to them between the almost immediate, very bad response to MFPA and the weeks-later rude offering to you of a substantial discount for the Upgrade fee. So perhaps there's hope? I hope MFPA will go to that link which you posted and get v. 3.0.1.33. It's deserved, and as you and I just agreed, WilWilWil, only right that someone who's used v. 2.12.00 for only 2 weeks before the v. 3.0 announcement should have it. Because what you said is true. V. 2.12.00 lacks now the bug-fixes and support that were available before the release of v. 3.0. Now only v. 3.xx versions get support and bug fixes. W My latest boss always says It's no necessary to have the best W product : in 3rd millennium, customer want just a correct product W but with maximum of powerful services and support. Latest? Does that mean you finally found a job? Or do you mean latest in the sense of last? W I prefer driving a little car and having the good garage for W services. What is utility of having a Formula One if nobody can do W the MAINTENANCE ? A spot-on analogy! W Problem : with The Bat, I have tasted Formula One and can't W imagine go back to my moped ! Oh, man, is it ever fun to drive a Formula One vehicle!! :formula1car: -- Best regards, Mary :Trill: http://www.PCWize.com/thebat/PCWSmileys.php The Bat! 3.0.2.2 Rush on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Boycott then purchase of V3
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 ***^\ ._)~~ ~( __ _o Was another beautiful day, Thu, 28 Oct 2004, @ @ at 00:33:35 +0200, when WilWilWil wrote: My latest boss always says It's no necessary to have the best product : in 3rd millennium, customer want just a correct product but with maximum of powerful services and support. You had a wise boss. You could visit him sometimes. I prefer driving a little car and having the good garage for services. What is utility of having a Formula One if nobody can do the MAINTENANCE ? You may learn to scold, names of saints, about relations between relatives and what relatives exist... Problem : with The Bat, I have tasted Formula One and can't imagine go back to my moped ! :-) :-) :-) The force has its dark and its bright side. Life is sometimes cruel. But the sun is like a... sun: it equally illuminates every and each thing. That is the core of its longevity. - -- Mica PGP key uploaded at: http://pgp.mit.edu/ once just before breakfast :happypiglet: [Earth LOG: 57 day(s) since v3.0 unleashing] OS: Windows 98 SE Micro Lite Professional IVa Enterprise Millennium with nestled ZipSlack(tm) 9.1 UMSDOS Linux; and, for TB sometimes Libranet (Linux) 2.8.1, via Cross Over Office -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iD8DBQFBgDgW9q62QPd3XuIRAnKXAJ9CkMliIsscT0JEAQ+/wQgXKAsbngCeLwpb /mHOUj6eUwRzJ/3QpLdrEWQ= =5lb2 -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Boycott then purchase of V3
Hi On Wednesday, 27 October, 2004, at 1:37:49 PM, WilWilWil wrote: I have just ordered V3 Pro! I am sure not to exploit the advantages of the Pro, but indeed, 2 EUR is noy so lot. And perhaps other advantageous functions will be available and only for Pro version I wanted to boycott this purchase, because I had asked for a free renewal of my V2 licence towards V3 because it had less than 3 months. Boycott, because Ritlabs did not answer me. Today they answered me. 1 month of waiting for the answer. Free Update Refused! But at least they answered. Of course, no hello, no thanks, no courtesy or consideration of the customer. But nevertheless, they proposed to me a special offer only for me at 15,75 EUR for the Pro. Here the complete copy of their very rich answer: Ritlabs We cannot give you a free licence. We can Ritlabs add to the 30% discount to the existing 50% discount. Ritlabs (15,75 EUR) Ritlabs Ritlabs address: Ritlabs https://secure.element5.com/esales/cart.html?PRODUCT[5423.. ...91]=1COUPON1=UpgradeV3currencies=EUR perhaps? The same place you end up if you go to ritlabs.com and follow links for an upgrade to v3 Professional on a student/non-profit licence. ... this morning I see the information of Denis (TB-FR) concerning the preferential rate (www.ritlabs.com/upgrade-privilege-pro.html) and I know now that Ritlabs didnt offer me a commercial pleasure to me. Everyone can keep this low price ! Indeed. That link redirects to the same place too. I suppose it helps to keep the pricing structure simple ;-) -- Best regards, MFPAmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! v2.12.00 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Boycott then purchase of V3
Wednesday, October 27, 2004, WilWilWil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bugs strongly handicapping me in V2 are corrected in V3. Did I have I bought v2 last January; but haven't really used it yet. I just installed it on a new computer last week. I am still using v1.62. What kinds of bugs are there in v2? Serious bugs? I just send and receive emails, filtering into different folders, very elementary macros. Should I just stayed with v.162 and forget about v2.12? really the choice? My trial version finished this evening. And to leave TB it is too heavy for me (files of 7000 mails, 50 rules of sorting, bayesit which makes finally its job after 4 months of training, and my plugin AVG7 which correctly quarantines virused mails (except 1 this week). .. -- Thanks in advance Using The Bat! 1.62r Under Windows 98 4.10 Build A Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
