Re: Access violation when moving folders for rules
Hello Anthony, On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 08:27:02 +0200 GMT (23/10/2004, 13:27 +0700 GMT), Anthony G. Atkielski wrote: You do empty the Recycle Bin occasionally, right? Pal, with statements that ridiculous AGA I used to do technical support, and that's a standard question, along AGA the lines of have you plugged the machine in. I agree with you, and your question was not out of line, IMHO. -- Cheers, Thomas. Gluehlampen brennen heller, wenn man sie vor dem Einschrauben aus der Verpackung nimmt. Message reply created with The Bat! 3.0.1.33 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Access violation when moving folders for rules
Alexander S. Kunz writes: Pal, with statements that ridiculous I don't dare continuing this OT conversation, sorry. I mean... no, I don't mean... you haven't been there, so I'll just stop here... :-) I used to do technical support, and that's a standard question, along the lines of have you plugged the machine in. It's surprising how often the answer to questions like these turns out to be no. That's why pilots have checklists. -- Anthony __ Using The Bat! v3.0.1.33 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Access violation when moving folders for rules
Hello Anthony G. Atkielski everyone else 23-Okt-2004 08:27, you wrote: That's why pilots have checklists The average techsupp person has checklists to annoy callers who know whats going on... :) -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) using v3.0.2.1 on Windows XP Pro Service Pack 2 without smilies :-P Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Access violation when moving folders for rules
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 ***^\ ._)~~ ~( __ _o Was another beautiful day, Sat, 23 Oct 2004, @ @ at 19:35:34 +0200, when Alexander S. Kunz wrote to Anthony G. Atkielski everyone else, therefore including Me as well: Hello Anthony G. Atkielski everyone else 23-Okt-2004 08:27, you wrote: That's why pilots have checklists The average techsupp person has checklists to annoy callers who know whats going on... :) Pilots also have idiot boxes all over the globe. They are called airports. - -- Mica PGP key uploaded at: http://pgp.mit.edu/ once just before breakfast :flagmica: [Earth LOG: 52 day(s) since v3.0 unleashing] OS: Windows 98 SE Micro Lite Professional IVa Enterprise Millennium and for TB sometimes Libranet (Linux) 2.8.1, via Cross Over Office -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iD8DBQFBep8B9q62QPd3XuIRAr2jAJ48uF0GV/A9OYEtsh0P9UqnSAMcOwCfRk6L ue2uQAn9XhhNW9BGDAUz+xc= =W01Q -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Access violation when moving folders for rules
Alexander S. Kunz writes: The average techsupp person has checklists to annoy callers who know whats going on... :) The vast majority of callers to tech support don't know what they are doing, and there's no way to tell which callers _do_ know what they are doing. Not going through the checklist is an excellent way to waste huge amounts of time chasing after details when the solution to the problem is staring one right in the face. It works for NASA; it will work for everyone else. -- Anthony __ Using The Bat! v3.0.1.33 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Access violation when moving folders for rules
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 ***^\ ._)~~ ~( __ _o Was another beautiful day, Sat, 23 Oct 2004, @ @ at 23:03:43 +0200, when Anthony G. Atkielski wrote: It works for NASA; it will work for everyone else. It didn't work for the shuttle. - -- Mica PGP key uploaded at: http://pgp.mit.edu/ once just before breakfast :flagmica: [Earth LOG: 53 day(s) since v3.0 unleashing] OS: Windows 98 SE Micro Lite Professional IVa Enterprise Millennium and for TB sometimes Libranet (Linux) 2.8.1, via Cross Over Office -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iD8DBQFBetvX9q62QPd3XuIRAtd3AKCHruhKhAWuqQnH/E2t3bwtYOxElACfZd71 U92zI3FLYLApVZ+gf9V0bLA= =eCRd -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Access violation when moving folders for rules
On Saturday, October 23, 2004 at 4:03:43 PM [GMT -0500], Anthony G. Atkielski wrote: The vast majority of callers to tech support don't know what they are doing, and there's no way to tell which callers _do_ know what they are doing. Well, in a way I'd disagree with that. It's not easy for a novice to give detailed and technical information with explanations that imply knowledge that exceeds that of the novice. :) In such a situation, one can easily raise the tech support level. -- -= Allie =- . I'm an influential person, gravitationally speaking. __ IMAP [ Client: The Bat! v3.0.1.33 | Server: MDaemon Pro ] OS: Windows XP Pro (Service Pack 2) Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Access violation when moving folders for rules
Mica Mijatovic writes: It didn't work for the shuttle. It did work for the shuttle; but someone decided to skip a few steps. -- Anthony __ Using The Bat! v3.0.1.33 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Access violation when moving folders for rules
Allie Martin writes: Well, in a way I'd disagree with that. It's not easy for a novice to give detailed and technical information with explanations that imply knowledge that exceeds that of the novice. :) In such a situation, one can easily raise the tech support level. Typically no one gives such explanations. Unsophisticated users cannot give them; sophisticated users are too lazy to give them (because they prefer to guess what's wrong), and become indignant when anyone suggests that their educated guesses may not be correct. That's exactly how the unsophisticated users sound, so it's hard to tell them apart. They all claim to be experts on the phone. -- Anthony __ Using The Bat! v3.0.1.33 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Access violation when moving folders for rules
-Original Message- From: Alexander S. Kunz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Oct 21, 2004 8:39 AM To: Michael L. Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Access violation when moving folders for rules Hello Michael L. Wilson everyone else 21-Okt-2004 00:03, you wrote: I know this and say this because I worked for 16 years in Redmond Washington, for Microsoft Since we remember (from the days of *that* signature of yours *g*) that you are a teacher, critic and ecclesiastic (sp?) philosopher, may I ask what position you did occupy there? [no stab at discrediting you or something ntended, I'd just find it interesting to know what kinda people are working for Microsoft, you know...] I was software QA. My job was to setup new systems and see what happened to the registry and temp files area after installing third party items. I was in several meetings where memos from Hard Drive comapnies were used by programmers to purposly not delete temp and old items. In this way, MWindows would fill up a hard drive quickly and cause the user to buy a new one. Windows XP is the best and most stable, as hard drive size increases have virtually stopped. If 95 or 98 or me is used, the DOS kernal is the most unstable. DOs is not multi-tasking, multi-user or multi-threading, and windoes tries to add all those features while DOs is fighting it. NT is for servers. 200 is bloatware. XP is the first, sort-of departure from old paterns. It too, however, self-corrupts -- Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Access violation when moving folders for rules
Michael Wilson writes: I was software QA. My job was to setup new systems and see what happened to the registry and temp files area after installing third party items. I was in several meetings where memos from Hard Drive comapnies were used by programmers to purposly not delete temp and old items. In this way, MWindows would fill up a hard drive quickly and cause the user to buy a new one. There were no such meetings. Windows XP is the best and most stable, as hard drive size increases have virtually stopped. If the meetings you mention above had actually taken place, it wouldn't matter how stable XP is. -- Anthony __ Using The Bat! v3.0.1.33 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Access violation when moving folders for rules
Hello Michael Wilson everyone else 21-Okt-2004 18:38, you wrote: Windows XP is the best and most stable, as hard drive size increases have virtually stopped. Uhm. I beg to differ, my experience is vastly different. HDD usage has *never* increased more during daily usage than with Win XP. My system partition (without additional programs - I have the program files on a different partition) for XP is 4GB; after installation XP took 2GB, and now its at 3.2GB - within about half a year ever since I switched to XP. Hello, where's dem gigs goin' to? I haven't yet peeked into the partition to find out where all that space is lost... BUT: my W2k partition was 2GB and the occupied size (1.5GB) never changed very much. If 95 or 98 or me is used, the DOS kernal is the most unstable. Yes, because it is *MS* DOS... veg DOs is not multi-tasking, multi-user or multi-threading, and windoes tries to add all those features while DOs is fighting it. Plus MS never learned how to implement multitasking and multithreading propperly. Can you say AmigaOS? :-) NT is for servers. 200 is bloatware. XP is the first, sort-of departure from old paterns. It too, however, self-corrupts Given the ratio of performance and stability, the NT series had its peak with W2k - and XP is already a step backwards, there's no denying it. My W2k installation at home (with moderate installation/deinstallation of programs and drivers and stuff over time) never let me down in about three years, the XP installation at work (with an almost *fixed* set of programs and the occasional security updates) is already close to shipwrecked in about one and half years. -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) using v3.0.2.1 on Windows XP Pro Service Pack 2 without smilies :-P Everything is theoretically possible, until it's done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen. -- Robert A. Heinlein Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Access violation when moving folders for rules
Alexander S. Kunz writes: Uhm. I beg to differ, my experience is vastly different. HDD usage has *never* increased more during daily usage than with Win XP. My system partition (without additional programs - I have the program files on a different partition) for XP is 4GB; after installation XP took 2GB, and now its at 3.2GB - within about half a year ever since I switched to XP. Hello, where's dem gigs goin' to? I haven't yet peeked into the partition to find out where all that space is lost... It's not the OS. I've been running XP for years and there has been no increase in disk usage. You do empty the Recycle Bin occasionally, right? Plus MS never learned how to implement multitasking and multithreading propperly. Can you say AmigaOS? :-) It is done correctly in the NT-based versions of Windows. Other versions of Windows left much to be desired, but they were no worse than other desktop operating systems of their generation. Given the ratio of performance and stability, the NT series had its peak with W2k - and XP is already a step backwards, there's no denying it. MS adds bells and whistles to please it's largely unsophisticated customer base. It destabilizes the OS but it pleases the average-Joe consumer. ... the XP installation at work (with an almost *fixed* set of programs and the occasional security updates) is already close to shipwrecked in about one and half years. I've had no trouble with XP in years (it has been several years since I first installed it, I'm not sure how many). -- Anthony __ Using The Bat! v3.0.1.33 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Access violation when moving folders for rules
Hello Anthony G. Atkielski everyone else 22-Okt-2004 19:43, you wrote: You do empty the Recycle Bin occasionally, right? Pal, with statements that ridiculous I don't dare continuing this OT conversation, sorry. I mean... no, I don't mean... you haven't been there, so I'll just stop here... :-) -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) using v3.0.2.1 on Windows XP Pro Service Pack 2 without smilies :-P I have not the smallest molecule of faith in aerial navigation other than ballooning. -- William Thomas Kelvin Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Access violation when moving folders for rules
Hello Michael L. Wilson everyone else 21-Okt-2004 00:03, you wrote: I know this and say this because I worked for 16 years in Redmond Washington, for Microsoft Since we remember (from the days of *that* signature of yours *g*) that you are a teacher, critic and ecclesiastic (sp?) philosopher, may I ask what position you did occupy there? [no stab at discrediting you or something intended, I'd just find it interesting to know what kinda people are working for Microsoft, you know...] -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) using v3.0.2.1 on Windows XP Pro Service Pack 2 without smilies :-P Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Access violation when moving folders for rules
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 ***^\ ._)~~ ~( __ _o Was another beautiful day, Thu, 21 Oct 2004, @ @ at 17:39:19 +0200, when Alexander S. Kunz wrote: Hello Michael L. Wilson everyone else 21-Okt-2004 00:03, you wrote: I know this and say this because I worked for 16 years in Redmond Washington, for Microsoft Since we remember (from the days of *that* signature of yours *g*) that you are a teacher, critic and ecclesiastic (sp?) philosopher, may I ask what position you did occupy there? [no stab at discrediting you or something intended, I'd just find it interesting to know what kinda people are working for Microsoft, you know...] Pphhoo...! (: I couldn't hold my breath anymore. :grin: Well...? skipping - -- Mica PGP key uploaded at: http://pgp.mit.edu/ once just before breakfast o [Earth LOG: 50 day(s) since v3.0 unleashing] OS: Windows 98 SE Micro Lite Professional IVa Enterprise Millennium -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iD8DBQFBd+039q62QPd3XuIRAh+hAKCFRGMWJ5hvg33nhKcNxeznpvGMiACfeIGL 99S5itXf04yjb1M35OBhAEY= =AeJu -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Access violation when moving folders for rules
Hello Anthony G. Atkielski On 20.October.2004, 3:14 PM (Now: 20.October.2004, 3:50 PM), [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: AGA When I create a new rule and try to move it with Alt and the mouse, if I AGA slip it downwards instead of upwards, I usually get an access violation, AGA like the message attached. Access violations then occur each time I try AGA to edit the filters, until I stop and restart TB. Nothing is corrupted AGA and everything works fine after I restart the client. I had this bug with the same version that you have right now I suggest you to upgrade to a more recent version of TB! -- The Final Cut [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thebat: 3.0.2.1 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Access violation when moving folders for rules
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I had this bug with the same version that you have right now I suggest you to upgrade to a more recent version of TB! Uh, I only upgraded to this version six days ago. Do I have to upgrade this product once a day, or what? I've also noticed that this problem may be hanging to client in some way; I noticed it hanging on POP3 access, but after I killed the process it worked again. Not sure what's happening there. -- Anthony __ Using The Bat! v3.0.1.33 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 pgpVZ4vI2mCbr.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Access violation when moving folders for rules
Hello [EMAIL PROTECTED] everyone else 20-Okt-2004 21:51, you wrote: AGA When I create a new rule and try to move it with Alt and the mouse, if I AGA slip it downwards instead of upwards, I usually get an access violation, AGA like the message attached. Access violations then occur each time I try AGA to edit the filters, until I stop and restart TB. Nothing is corrupted AGA and everything works fine after I restart the client. I had this bug with the same version that you have right now I suggest you to upgrade to a more recent version of TB! Ahem... Anthony is using 3.0.1.33 which *is* the latest stable release version, the only more recent version is 3.0.2.1 (which is a beta), and the stability of that release is, according to the posts here, even more questionable... (btw. I just saw that I, after thinking wow, lucky I don't have any problems forgot to actually install 3.0.2.1 ... so its wait and see for me now) -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) using v3.0.2.1 on Windows XP Pro Service Pack 2 without smilies :-P Deliplayer2 is playing: Catharsis by Deviant Electronics from the 1997 album 'Brainwashing Is Child's Play' Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Access violation when moving folders for rules
Hello Anthony, old message... AGA When I create a new rule and try to move it with Alt and the mouse, if I AGA slip it downwards instead of upwards, I usually get an access violation, AGA like the message attached. Access violations then occur each time I try AGA to edit the filters, until I stop and restart TB. Nothing is corrupted AGA and everything works fine after I restart the client. My reply... I would like to speak a little about operating system stability and the Bat!. The Bat is written in a very high level language that does not touch deep operating system problems. Since the Bat! only works on Windows machines, people really need to look to their OS before complaining. Microsoft Windows, all version, are, by nature, self corrupting. They store data incorrectly, never clean themselves up and work off a registry that is not self correcting. I know this and say this because I worked for 16 years in Redmond Washington, for Microsoft. Engineers who work on windows all follow this simple rule: Every six months, backup your important data, not the programs, and reformat the hard drive, and reinstall windows. Then reinstall the programs and copy back the data. I have done this ever since windows 95, and have never had any problems with programs giving Access Violations. The Bat! has always worked well for me. It has been tough to learn, and I wish they would document, but the program, now at version 3.02.1 works flawlessly. So, before you jump on the instability of The Bat!, backup, reformat and reinstall. You will be amazed at the speed of your new machine and how stable it is. Every six months...I am not kidding. Personal note: for me, it takes about 6 hours every six months. I keep my music and pictures on multiple removable drives so that they are always backed up. I format it, and reinstall, which takes about an hour, then I reinstall the programs I need, not everything I have. Every six months, and I have two very stable windows machines. -- Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Access violation when moving folders for rules
Hallo Anthony, On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 21:14:48 +0200GMT (20-10-2004, 21:14 +0200, where I live), you wrote: AGA When I create a new rule and try to move it with Alt and the mouse, if I AGA slip it downwards instead of upwards, I usually get an access violation, AGA like the message attached. What happens when you try to move the filter with the up and down arrows in the toolbar? -- Groetjes, Roelof Unbelief in one thing springs = blind belief in another. The Bat! 3.0.2.1 Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 1 pop3 account, server on LAN pgp07meVGtZIj.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Access violation when moving folders for rules
On Wed 20-Oct-04 2:51pm -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I had this bug with the same version that you have right now I suggest you to upgrade to a more recent version of TB! He has the latest version of TB! I certainly wouldn't recommend that buggy beta to anyone not on the beta list - I've tested it, written a bug report and, like many others, backed off to the release version. -- Best regards, Bill The Bat! 3.0.1.33 Pro - BayesIt! 0.7.3 - XP Pro SP2 - POP3 Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Access violation when moving folders for rules
Roelof Otten writes: What happens when you try to move the filter with the up and down arrows in the toolbar? I haven't tried it. Next time I'll try that and see what happens. I don't create new rules very often. -- Anthony __ Using The Bat! v3.0.1.33 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 pgpkq9UqbKiHU.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Access violation when moving folders for rules
Michael L. Wilson writes: I would like to speak a little about operating system stability and the Bat!. The Bat is written in a very high level language that does not touch deep operating system problems. Since the Bat! only works on Windows machines, people really need to look to their OS before complaining. It's not the operating system. The Bat! has always worked well for me. It has been tough to learn, and I wish they would document, but the program, now at version 3.02.1 works flawlessly. The program works well enough for me, also, which is why I use it. It does have bugs, though--too many to make it successful as a mass-market or enterprise product. The lack of documentation and support also effectively excludes it from enterprise implementations (few corporations would be willing to roll a program like this out to 40,000 desktops--it would be a support nightmare). So, before you jump on the instability of The Bat!, backup, reformat and reinstall. You will be amazed at the speed of your new machine and how stable it is. Every six months...I am not kidding. You may not be kidding, but the suggestion is nevertheless unreasonable and unwarranted. The OS is not the source of the access violations. I have _never_ done backups, reformats, and reinstallations to fix problems--even for OS problems, it's almost never necessary, especially with today's operating systems. Every six months, and I have two very stable windows machines. I've had stable Windows machines for a decade, and they've never been reinstalled or reformatted. I back them up regularly, of course, as I would any system, but I've never experienced any problem that required restoring from backup, either. -- Anthony __ Using The Bat! v3.0.1.33 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 pgpVdfY5sSCRG.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
