Re: TBUDL - this very list
Hello Miguel! On Monday, January 20, 2003, 10:47 AM, you wrote: MB>> Then I will have to put up a clock for Spain! M> Ah, don't worry. We have plenty, almost every church has one ;-) So, send me one for my Desktop, HTML or FTP? (Since you have plenty and to spare. :) ) With the sound effects intact--and a little German-made cuckoo to serve the coffee at appropriate times? -- Best regards, Mary The Bat! 1.61 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
Hello Mary, > Then I will have to put up a clock for Spain! Ah, don't worry. We have plenty, almost every church has one ;-) -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
Hello Miguel! On Monday, January 20, 2003, 10:08 AM, you wrote: MB>> ... when ...we would next hear from you, in regard to manual MB>> threading on The Bat! M> Soon. Certainly before v2 of TB :-) Good deal! MB>> I have a clock on my Desktop that shows the time in London, England. MB>> Have a feeling it's the same as for Escorial - Spain. M> No, we are one hour ahead of England, GMT+1. Then I will have to put up a clock for Spain! -- Best regards, Mary The Bat! 1.61 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
Hello Mary, > Greg Strong wrote to me late yesterday afternoon asking me when I > thought we would next hear from you, in regard to manual threading on > The Bat! Soon. Certainly before v2 of TB :-) > I have a clock on my Desktop that shows the time in London, England. > Have a feeling it's the same as for Escorial - Spain. No, we are one hour ahead of England, GMT+1. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
Hello Miguel! On Monday, January 20, 2003, 9:20 AM, you wrote: MB>> Now, Miguel! I was using a figure of speech. M> I know, I have "read 5 by 5" many times in my life with voice M> communications :) I figured! A Renaissance man like you knows all!! Greg Strong wrote to me late yesterday afternoon asking me when I thought we would next hear from you, in regard to manual threading on The Bat! I told him--siesta time or suppertime or ... I have a clock on my Desktop that shows the time in London, England. Have a feeling it's the same as for Escorial - Spain. Which would make you just past siesta time, I reckon, right now. :) -- Best regards, Mary The Bat! 1.61 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
Hello Mary, > Now, Miguel! I was using a figure of speech. I know, I have "read 5 by 5" many times in my life with voice communications :) -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: TBUDL - this very list
Greg, *** === *** === *** === *** === *** === *** === *** === *** Saturday, January 18, 2003, 2:58:17 PM, you wrote: GS> Hello Mary, W>>> QED. GS> When you need to find the meaning to a certain acronym, I think you will GS> find this a helpful link. GS> http://www.acronymfinder.com/ Ok...tried the site and it's clear as mud. Did you mean Quickly Ends Dandruff or Queen Elizabeth Drive ;) -- Scott Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
Hello Mary, On Sun, 19 Jan 2003 08:54:15 -0600 GMT (19/01/03, 21:54 +0700 GMT), Mary Bull wrote: > BTW (by the way :) ), I have The Bat! configured to open attachments > in the message body. I get those horrid colored backgrounds. One > newbie on Rootsweb's COMPUTERS-L,, in another English-speaking > country, describing herself as a grandmother--like me--sent a query in > lime-green font on yellow. It sat unanswered for several hours, so I > sent a response. Back came a private thank you, pink font on deep rose > red, with dancing roses and hearts--near about put my eyes out. Two > pages long, also. ...and... > If I had had my sound volume up, no doubt it would have disabled my > ears, too! You have jsut made the best point against HTML email. > And she's obviously a very nice person, with no idea how what she > did was affecting *me*. That is the problem. You cannot just reply saying "your message appearance was unbearable. Please resend in plain text". Better to not have HTML editors in email clients, so people don't try to make messages "nice". ;-) The size ie download time ie cost to download issue might not apply to the people you are referring to, because all of you might have high-speed flat rates. So, one of my personal concerns against HTML, namely my wallet, won't apply to you guys. (<- I am using the word "guys" in the non-gender-specific meaning you explain earlier.) > I configured The Bat! to show me HTML that way, because of the sisters > and cousin whose messages come only as HTML attachments. Hm. I receive HTML emails, but I have set HTML auto-view off. If I think I might be missing something, I can have a quick view by clicking on the text, but that is usually in vain. > I am so thankful to read your messages in plain text. "Loud and > clear" was originally an Air Force expression, except it was "read > you loud and clear." Doesn't that refer to intelligibility? Loud and clear = 5 by 5 = volume is 5 out of 5, and signal strength is 5 out of 5. "To read" means to "to copy", which only means "to hear", in the parlance. Applies not only to the Air Force, but any kind of two-way radio communication. I used to use CB radio (some 30 years ago), compared to which amateur radio is professional; so I may be mistaken. > Passed into common speech here in my country. It is hard > to anticipate how idioms and cultural references may not be > intelligible to others. Can you use the expression "Read my lips!" in email correspondence? Or is it out of fashion anyway? Gosh, are we OT with the last two issues. I'd better copy this to TBOT for any continuance of this thread. ;-) -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. I wonder how much deeper would the ocean be without sponges. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.63 Beta/3 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
Hello Miguel, On Sunday, January 19, 2003, 5:19 AM, you wrote: MB>> I hear another big trout swimming this direction. M> Darn! And I have run out of bait! ;-) Miguel is never out of bait! Or sense of humor. :) To mix the image, Miguel is like a delightful large Bat, swooping around and catching the noxious insects, making the entire surroundings nicer. -- Best regards, Mary The Bat! 1.61 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
Hello Miguel, On Sunday, January 19, 2003, 5:25 AM, you wrote: MB>> I hear you loud and clear, Miguel. And it is a joy to listen! M> It's nice to be able to send e-mail with a sound background, isn't it? M> Now all we need is HTML so can also send colour backgrounds ;-) Now, Miguel! I was using a figure of speech. I am so text-oriented, that I do not even play music while on the computer. (I have a sister who runs classical CDs as she does genealogy. And a cousin who runs a movie in the corner of her screen while she works.) How they tolerate it, I have no idea. One task at a time is how my brain works. :) BTW (by the way :) ), I have The Bat! configured to open attachments in the message body. I get those horrid colored backgrounds. One newbie on Rootsweb's COMPUTERS-L,, in another English-speaking country, describing herself as a grandmother--like me--sent a query in lime-green font on yellow. It sat unanswered for several hours, so I sent a response. Back came a private thank you, pink font on deep rose red, with dancing roses and hearts--near about put my eyes out. Two pages long, also. If I had had my sound volume up, no doubt it would have disabled my ears, too! And she's obviously a very nice person, with no idea how what she did was affecting *me*. I configured The Bat! to show me HTML that way, because of the sisters and cousin whose messages come only as HTML attachments. I am so thankful to read your messages in plain text. "Loud and clear" was originally an Air Force expression, except it was "read you loud and clear." Passed into common speech here in my country. It is hard to anticipate how idioms and cultural references may not be intelligible to others. I guess it's something similar to the almost automatic use of acronyms by tech-speakers. :) I will try to watch out about it better. :) -- Best regards, Mary The Bat! 1.61 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
Hello Mary, > I hear you loud and clear, Miguel. And it is a joy to listen! It's nice to be able to send e-mail with a sound background, isn't it? Now all we need is HTML so can also send colour backgrounds ;-) -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
Hello Mary, > I hear another big trout swimming this direction. Darn! And I have run out of bait! ;-) -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: TBUDL - this very list
Saturday, January 18, 2003, 2:59:12 PM,Thomas wrote: TF> Let's find out. I myself am located in the galaxy of Alpha Centauri, TF> solar system Gamma 7, ninth planet. Where are you? I'd say 3rd rock from the Sun but I think someone already said that yesterday! ;-) TF> In some cases, not even the ones who talk about it understand it! ;-) So what chance do we poor souls have? -- Cheers, Anne Using The Bat! v1.62 Christmas Edition on Windows 98 4.10 Build Visit The Bat! Users' Unofficial Help Forum http://the-bat-forums.donzeigler.com Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
Hello Greg, On Saturday, January 18, 2003, 2:48 PM, you wrote: MB>> Allie's long and patient public exchange with me on this last night MB>> did convince me that this is the place to ask my questions. So you are MB>> still likely to be subjected to some really ignorant ones G> No question is stupid. It is only stupid not to ask. A difference between ignorant and stupid? Ignorant referring to range of knowledge--and mine on the uses of The Bat! and computers in general is still small--and stupid to quality of judgment on what to do? Thanks for the support from you and everyone who has written to me on this thread. My servers went down about mid-morning Saturday, January 18, and only came back shortly after midnight Sunday, January 19. May or may not be related to the snow and cold now plaguing the eastern half of the U.S. Anyway, please excuse my long delay in answering these posts. -- Best regards, Mary The Bat! 1.61 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
Hello Mary, On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, at 07:41:07 GMT -0600 (1/18/2003, 7:41 AM -0500 GMT here), you wrote in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: W>> QED. > As does yours. :) It was nice, after a good night's sleep, to find you > on my machine this morning. And I don't even know what QED stands for, > except that it signifies a point has been demonstrated beyond doubt. When you need to find the meaning to a certain acronym, I think you will find this a helpful link. http://www.acronymfinder.com/ -- Best regards, Greg Strong TB! v1.63 Beta/3 on Windows XP Service Pack 1 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
Hello Mary, On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, at 08:14:34 GMT -0600 (1/18/2003, 8:14 AM -0500 GMT here), you wrote in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Allie's long and patient public exchange with me on this last night > did convince me that this is the place to ask my questions. So you are > still likely to be subjected to some really ignorant ones No question is stupid. It is only stupid not to ask. -- Best regards, Greg Strong TB! v1.63 Beta/3 on Windows XP Service Pack 1 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
Hello Anne, On Sat, 18 Jan 2003 05:31:40 + GMT (18/01/03, 12:31 +0700 GMT), Anne wrote: > This was exactly my point when I first landed up here and wondered if > I was still on the same planet as you all! Let's find out. I myself am located in the galaxy of Alpha Centauri, solar system Gamma 7, ninth planet. Where are you? > Please though, do remember that not everyone understands all the > technicalities that you talk about. In some cases, not even the ones who talk about it understand it! ;-) -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart? Message reply created with The Bat! 1.63 Beta/3 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
Hello Miguel, On Saturday, January 18, 2003, 6:13 AM, you wrote: MB>> I just don't belong here, ... M> You are a TB user, aren't you? Then you belong here as much as any M> other TB user (guru or newbie) does. Period. ... As I wrote to you earlier, Allie convinced me of this last night, in his long, patient exchange with me. I totally conceded his logic to him--I have learned so much here, and from the very tech-speakers I was earlier complaining about. :) M> ... Nobody is forced to follow all threads and read all messages. M> There are filters (once you have learned how to use them) and M> everybody knows how to use the Delete key (Please ask if you don't M> :). Well ... there are the bored newbies to consider, and the fellow subscribers who are paying by the second for their downloads. But in general, yes, you are right. :) MB>> I'm not unsubscribing just yet. M> Please don't! You hear me?!? I hear you loud and clear, Miguel. And it is a joy to listen! -- Best regards, Mary The Bat! 1.61 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
Hello Miguel, On Saturday, January 18, 2003, 6:01 AM, you wrote: MB>> ... I had just acknowledged Jonathan on TBOT and thought it was MB>> only right to reply to Miguel, who was writing to me on TBUDL. M> Maybe also because I'm not on TBOT :) Well, I *have* been paying attention to what you write to the List. I knew you were not on TBOT, so I couldn't answer you both in one go. And--why aren't you? It's absolutely full of posts with graphics and colored backgrounds! TBUDL is really not for exchanges like we are having now. :) I hear another big trout swimming this direction. -- Best regards, Mary The Bat! 1.61 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
Hello Miguel, On Saturday, January 18, 2003, 5:50 AM, you wrote: MB>> It's like a Catch-22. M> What is a Catch-22? I'm asking seriously, because I don't know what it M> means. In the context of a newbie not knowing when or how to ask a question, it means "durned if you do, and durned if you don't!" The reference is to Joseph Heller, who wrote a novel by that title. I went to Google--here's one link: http://www.webster.edu/~barrettb/heller.htm It's famous in the context of human rights, at least here in my country. -- Best regards, Mary "I heartily disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." --attributed to Voltaire (Bartlett's Familiar Quotations, p. 418a) The Bat! 1.61 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
Hello Miguel, On Saturday, January 18, 2003, 5:41 AM, you wrote: MB>> ... we need a different TB! list for beginners and newbies. M> Disagree. If only beginners and newbies use the list, who's going to M> answer the questions? Then, if those considered "experts" and willing M> to help have to join the newbies list, wouldn't that be a duplication M> of TBUDL? ... It would. M> And also, how long is a piece of string? (What is a newbie's M> question?). You know my argument, we were all newbies some time. So M> please, don't be shy and and jump into any thread ... Allie's long and patient public exchange with me on this last night did convince me that this is the place to ask my questions. So you are still likely to be subjected to some really ignorant ones--interrupting the flow of discussion between "techie-types" (don't really mean to be labeling you, just can't think of a good way to approximate what I want to say)--from time to time. :) M> ... and ask a_n_y_t_h_i_n_g you don't understand. Please! So I will! -- Best regards, Mary The Bat! 1.61 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
Hello William, On Saturday, January 18, 2003, 2:59 AM, you wrote: < ... > MB>> I just don't belong here W> Rubbish. I really was feeling very out of place. :) W> You use TB! You want to learn how to use it for *your* purposes. You W> sometimes need help to do this. You belong here. Well, I pretty well thrashed this out with Allie last night, and his superior logic convinced me. W> QED. As does yours. :) It was nice, after a good night's sleep, to find you on my machine this morning. And I don't even know what QED stands for, except that it signifies a point has been demonstrated beyond doubt. :) Whoops, don't anyone even begin to enlighten me on that! Or else, do it on tbot. I fear I have headed OT again. :) -- Best regards, Mary The Bat! 1.61 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
Hello Miguel, On Sat, 18 Jan 2003 at 14:01:48[GMT +0100](which was 13:01 where I live) you wrote: > You mean Catch-22 means marriage? ;-) Nice one :-) However I've been divorced and single for 15 years now so I got out of it (not telling why though!) -- Best regards, Richard | Using The Bat! version 1.63 Beta/4 | Windows 2000 (build 2195), version 5.0 Service Pack 3 | and using the best browser: Opera. Don't talk unless you can improve the silence Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
Hello Richard, > Catch 22 is an absurd situation from which one can never win. You mean Catch-22 means marriage? ;-) -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
Hello Allie, > IOW's, if you do X, a bad thing happens. If you do not do X, a bad > thing happens anyway. So you're in a dilemna. Clear as sparkling water. Thanks :) -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
Hello Julian, >> What is a Catch-22? I'm asking seriously, because I don't know what it >> means. > > http://www.webster.edu/~barrettb/heller.htm Thanks, I guess I get it now. :) -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
Hello Miguel, On Sat, 18 Jan 2003 at 12:50:32[GMT +0100](which was 11:50 where I live) you wrote: > What is a Catch-22? I'm asking seriously, because I don't know what it > means. Catch 22 is an absurd situation from which one can never win. Being constantly balked by a clause, rule etc which itself can change to block any change in one's course of action. >From Chambers 20th Century Dictionary. -- Best regards, Richard | Using The Bat! version 1.63 Beta/4 | Windows 2000 (build 2195), version 5.0 Service Pack 3 | and using the best browser: Opera. I may not be perfect, but parts of me are excellent Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Miguel A. Urech [MAU] wrote:'
MAU> What is a Catch-22? I'm asking seriously, because I don't know
MAU> what it means.
AFAIK, it's a term of military origin which basically means the same
as terms as:
Being between a rock and a hard place.
>From the frying pan into the fire.
Between the devil and the deep blue sea.
IOW's, if you do X, a bad thing happens. If you do not do X, a bad
thing happens anyway. So you're in a dilemna.
I just came across this page:
http://www.bellmore-merrick.k12.ny.us/catch22.html
--
-=] allie_M [=- {List Moderator}
MUA: TB! v1.63 Beta/4 ___ OS: WinXP Pro (SP1)
Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
Hello Mary, > I just don't belong here, You are a TB user, aren't you? Then you belong here as much as any other TB user (guru or newbie) does. Period. Nobody is forced to follow all threads and read all messages. There are filters (once you have learned how to use them) and everybody knows how to use the Delete key (Please ask if you don't :). > I'm not unsubscribing just yet. Please don't! You hear me?!? -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
On Saturday, January 18, 2003, 11:50:32 AM, Miguel A. Urech wrote: > What is a Catch-22? I'm asking seriously, because I don't know what it > means. http://www.webster.edu/~barrettb/heller.htm Julian -- Using The Bat! v1.62 Christmas Edition on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
Hello Mary, > If I had not felt it necessary to thank Miguel on-list, I could have > stayed out of trouble! :) But I had just acknowledged Jonathan on TBOT > and thought it was only right to reply to Miguel, who was writing to > me on TBUDL. Maybe also because I'm not on TBOT :) -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
Hello Mary, > It's like a Catch-22. What is a Catch-22? I'm asking seriously, because I don't know what it means. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
Hello Mary, > I am frustrated again. I do think Peter Meyns's implication may be > right--and the frank suggestion made by Anne back in October: we need > a different TB! list for beginners and newbies. Disagree. If only beginners and newbies use the list, who's going to answer the questions? Then, if those considered "experts" and willing to help have to join the newbies list, wouldn't that be a duplication of TBUDL? And also, how long is a piece of string? (What is a newbie's question?). You know my argument, we were all newbies some time. So please, don't be shy and and jump into any thread and ask a_n_y_t_h_i_n_g you don't understand. Please! -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
Hello Mary Thank you for your email dated Saturday, January 18, 2003, 4:01:24 AM, in which you wrote: MB> I just don't belong here Rubbish. You use TB! You want to learn how to use it for *your* purposes. You sometimes need help to do this. You belong here. QED. -- Regards William www.residues.info Flying with The Bat! www.ritlabs.com/the_bat Windows 2000 Pro 2195 Service Pack 2 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: TBUDL - this very list
Allie- %- Actually, you dead-horsed this topic in response to *my* post, and I was well aware that we were heading wy off-topic when I posted it, so the point is well taken. The question was answered, there's no end of side-trips we can make from there, and it's time to move on. -Mark Wieder Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 2 -- Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
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Hash: SHA1
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Mary Bull [MB] wrote:'
MB> You are entirely right,
Thanks!! I'm glad you agree.
MB> and I thank you so much for your time and patience. :)
As always, my pleasure. :)
- --
-=] allie_M [=- {List Moderator}
MUA: TB! v1.63 Beta/4 ___ OS: WinXP Pro (SP1)
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Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re: TBUDL - this very list
Hello Allie, On Friday, January 17, 2003, 11:41 PM, you wrote: < snip > MB>> ... have a list geared more toward people like me. :) A> I don't think it's necessary. How in the world am I going to reply to this without "whole quoting" !! ? I concede. Your reasoning below is immaculate. I would not know 90 % of what I now know--compared to what I knew last October--if it had not been for the great people on this list. A> Objectively : A> If you look at it, your questions are always answered. The same for A> those posted by other new-comers. A> Subjectively: A> Some have reason to not feel welcome. This is a difficult area that I A> doubt can be resolved, especially if we wish to maintain the quality A> of the list from an information resource POV. A list as this with such A> a diverse type of membership in terms of global location and in terms A> of expertise with TB! and computers in general, will be bound to be a A> rich source of information, but also the source of misunderstandings A> as well. I think I have written here before, every time I get myself tangled up, that people of good will can always overcome misunderstandings. Maybe not quickly, but for me it is worth the time. I hope I have not caused too much difficulty for my fellow subscribers in all this exchange. A> You may find yourself on a list that's more friendly to new comers. A> However, I doubt you'd get the quality of tech support you'd get here. A> It's really great. New comer questions aren't always basic, and A> experienced users need to be around in numbers to keep the competent A> and accurate answers coming. I do admit that some can be blunted and A> seemingly unfriendly. However, that's all part and parcel of a A> high quality discussion list as this. You are entirely right, and I thank you so much for your time and patience. :) -- Best regards, Mary The Bat! 1.61 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Mary Bull [MB] wrote:'
MB> All the same, I have made your busy list and your work much longer
MB> tonight, and I am sorry for it. And I still wonder if we shouldn't
MB> have a list geared more toward people like me. :)
I don't think it's necessary.
Objectively :
If you look at it, your questions are always answered. The same for
those posted by other new-comers.
Subjectively:
Some have reason to not feel welcome. This is a difficult area that I
doubt can be resolved, especially if we wish to maintain the quality
of the list from an information resource POV. A list as this with such
a diverse type of membership in terms of global location and in terms
of expertise with TB! and computers in general, will be bound to be a
rich source of information, but also the source of misunderstandings
as well.
You may find yourself on a list that's more friendly to new comers.
However, I doubt you'd get the quality of tech support you'd get here.
It's really great. New comer questions aren't always basic, and
experienced users need to be around in numbers to keep the competent
and accurate answers coming. I do admit that some can be blunted and
seemingly unfriendly. However, that's all part and parcel of a
high quality discussion list as this.
- --
-=] allie_M [=- {List Moderator}
MUA: TB! v1.63 Beta/4 ___ OS: WinXP Pro (SP1)
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Re: TBUDL - this very list
Friday, January 17, 2003, 8:43:07 PM,Peter wrote: PM> I only mention this because I recommended TBUDL to several friends, and PM> some of them feel overwhelmed by the sheer amount of messages they receive. PM> Furthermore they don't understand what it's all about. (SSL, IMAP and PM> such.) This was exactly my point when I first landed up here and wondered if I was still on the same planet as you all! I found (and still do find) this to be a very technically minded list and I still feel that some new users will be put off by what they read. Having said that I have learned a heck of a lot of stuff which I wouldn't have done - not only about TB! - but about other areas from posts by you extremely knowledgeable folks. Please though, do remember that not everyone understands all the technicalities that you talk about. -- Cheers, Anne Using The Bat! v1.62 Christmas Edition on Windows 98 4.10 Build Visit The Bat! Users' Unofficial Help Forum http://the-bat-forums.donzeigler.com Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
Hello Allie, On Friday, January 17, 2003, 10:48 PM, you wrote: < snip > MB>> But, as I said, it immediately brought in the moderator. So I feel MB>> I should not have asked it. A> Actually, my request to end the thread was made after 14 messages on A> it. ... Point taken. It was not immediately. That choice of words is inaccurate and I beg your pardon--it reflects my state of mind at the time, which was possibly exaggerating the situation. :) A> ... I could have stepped in at any point along the thread since I was A> on-line most of the time the discussion ensued. I didn't think it was A> necessary up until when I did. If I had not felt it necessary to thank Miguel on-list, I could have stayed out of trouble! :) But I had just acknowledged Jonathan on TBOT and thought it was only right to reply to Miguel, who was writing to me on TBUDL. A> The other thing is that my comment about on-topic discussions was a A> general one, made for all readers. It was kindled by your comment A> ,-[ begin ]->> A> | | MB>> Extremely well put. And I hope if there are any other shy lurkers | MB>> like me, this will encourage them to ask questions--even at the | MB>> risk of getting Off Topic. :)| A> | A> '-[ end ]-|| A> ... among those of others. It was not a comment directed at you personally A> or to comment specifically on anything you did. I actually agree with A> your comment as quoted above. I just added to it. As usual, I have managed to misunderstand the English language, my native tongue. :) I thought you were modifying something you did not actually quite agree with. All the same, I have made your busy list and your work much longer tonight, and I am sorry for it. And I still wonder if we shouldn't have a list geared more toward people like me. :) -- Best regards, Mary The Bat! 1.61 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
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In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Mary Bull [MB] wrote:'
MB> So: There was that continuing thread, post after post, subsequent
MB> to Marck's warning to the originator of the thread. There was one
MB> particular term in that thread that I wished to have clarified--it
MB> seemed to pertain to the on-topic discussion of what new features
MB> are desirable in The Bat!
Yes, and of course, you're free to ask that a term be explained to
you. It would be unreasonable to not allow this.
MB> Because of this latest experience. Yes, I asked my question,
MB> clearly, and in a new thread, so that it got attention. (Oh, boy,
MB> did it ever!) And I got lots of courteous information from at
MB> least half a dozen people.
Good. I saw this. No problem.
BTW, just to clarify; my request to stop the thread on what FTP was,
didn't have anything to do with your asking the question. It had to do
with the fact that it had been sufficiently answered and any further
discussion would have no longer been appropriate.
MB> But then, I got told I should not have asked that question at all,
MB> because it was off topic.
MB> And the first person to tell me, actually, was Jonathan Angliss on
MB> TBOT, where he answered the question.
I'm not sure if he meant that. He'll have to clarify this himself. I
didn't see it as being off-topic. A query to clarify a term used in an
on-topic discussion, cannot be deemed off-topic. This wouldn't make
sense.
MB> [...] I wrote to Jonathan on TBOT and told him that I did not
MB> understand how asking about a term used in an on-topic discussion
MB> could be off topic. And I am saying that to you now, because it is
MB> the source of my present frustration.
MB> It's like a Catch-22.
Indeed, it would be if your concern were true. :)
MB> But, as I said, it immediately brought in the moderator. So I feel
MB> I should not have asked it.
Actually, my request to end the thread was made after 14 messages on
it. I could have stepped in at any point along the thread since I was
on-line most of the time the discussion ensued. I didn't think it was
necessary up until when I did.
The other thing is that my comment about on-topic discussions was a
general one, made for all readers. It was kindled by your comment
,-[ begin ]->>
|
| MB> Extremely well put. And I hope if there are any other shy lurkers
| MB> like me, this will encourage them to ask questions--even at the
| MB> risk of getting Off Topic. :)|
|
'-[ end ]-||
among those of others. It was not a comment directed at you personally
or to comment specifically on anything you did. I actually agree with
your comment as quoted above. I just added to it.
- --
-=] allie_M [=- {List Moderator}
MUA: TB! v1.63 Beta/4 ___ OS: WinXP Pro (SP1)
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Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re[2]: TBUDL - this very list
Hello St - Musaic.Net, On or about Friday, January 17, 2003 at 01:39:29GMT +0100 (which was 7:39 PM in the tropics where I live) St - Musaic.Net threw out this pearl of wisdom: SMN> Oh, don't worry - there are quite a few in the States, too, who are SMN> gaving big trouble figuring out what it is the other people are trying SMN> to say... 8< [snipped a ton for brevity, not levity] "I invented the internet." - Al Gore -- Warmest tropical wishes, Spike "DILATE: To live longer." -- /"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign - Against HTML Mail \ / If it aint a webpage it shouldn't be HTML. XSay NO! to bloatmail - ban HTML mail! / \ Ask Spikey, he hates everything (HTML). -- Flying in the stratosphere with The Bat! V1.61 on Windows 2000 Vers. 5 0 Build 2195 Service Pack 3 -- Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
Hello Allie, On Friday, January 17, 2003, 8:52 PM, you wrote: A> Please realize that it's never my intention to make anyone here feel A> unwelcome. My only intention is to try to make the list have as A> efficient an atmosphere as possible, since it's a busy one. I do know that, and there has never been a question in my mind about that. A>>> A>>> Only if it's a risk. ;) IOW's, ask away, as long as you're not aware A>>> that the question or query is off-topic. ... MB>> Allie, I see what you are trying to guard against. But I would like to MB>> clarify one thing: MB>> In posting my query about FTP I thought I was staying on-topic. A> I realised this, hence my comment, 'only if it's a risk'. We can't A> hold anyone at fault if they post a message they genuinely see as A> being on topic or one they aren't sure to be on-topic. A> I immediately saw that this was what happened in your case. This is what I misunderstood. I thought your perception was that I knew I was posting off-topic, and 'only if it's a risk' was meant for any others that might be encouraged by what looked like my example. A> However, there have been blatantly off-topic queries in the past. On A> some occasions, they've been prefaced with admissions like, 'I know A> this is off-topic but ...'. I knew, and said, that you were trying to guard against repetitions of that. MB>> And it felt like a good time to ask my question. Perhaps, to stay MB>> on-topic, I should have asked the question on the thread where the MB>> term FTP occurred. But--then--there was Marck's warning about its MB>> long subject line. A> Hmmm. There are two ways in which one can be off-topic. A> a) What they post about has nothing to do with what's in the subject A> header. A> b) What they post about has nothing to do with what the discussion A> list is about. TBUDL is for discussing the use of TB!. Difficulties A> with or queries about the use of full-release versions of TB! are A> discussed here. We also have TBTECH which is for again, discussions A> about TB!, but of a more technical nature. TBTECH was started in an A> effort to reduced the more technical discussions that wouldn't A> interest the average TB! user or new users. In this way, TBUDL A> subscribers wouldn't be turned off by an excess of traffic that A> doesn't interest or means nothing to them. However, there was a long thread recently in which moderators and others defended the discussion of possible new features to be added to The Bat! In the context of this latest discussion of new features, the terms got somewhat technical--not to mention the continuing use of the long subject line: "Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTML documents or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features." So: There was that continuing thread, post after post, subsequent to Marck's warning to the originator of the thread. There was one particular term in that thread that I wished to have clarified--it seemed to pertain to the on-topic discussion of what new features are desirable in The Bat! What is a relative newcomer to do? Some of the answers about URLs to pertinent websites and FAQs seem to imply one should not ask a question about anything puzzling going on in the various threads. A newcomer should only ask a question about his personal specific problem in making The Bat! work. A> I was really referring only to b). See last sentence above. MB>> I am frustrated again. I do think Peter Meyns's implication may be MB>> right--and the frank suggestion made by Anne back in October: we MB>> need a different TB! list for beginners and newbies. A> Do you still feel this way? A> If so, I'm not sure why and really hope that you'll explain. Because of this latest experience. Yes, I asked my question, clearly, and in a new thread, so that it got attention. (Oh, boy, did it ever!) And I got lots of courteous information from at least half a dozen people. But then, I got told I should not have asked that question at all, because it was off topic. And the first person to tell me, actually, was Jonathan Angliss on TBOT, where he answered the question. It was in the exchange between him and Miguel Urech that FTP came up, in the argument about what kind of text editors The Bat! should offer. I wrote to Jonathan on TBOT and told him that I did not understand how asking about a term used in an on-topic discussion could be off topic. And I am saying that to you now, because it is the source of my present frustration. It's like a Catch-22. A> Basic questions by new users are always answered here and usually are A> answered multiple times. Your FTP question wasn't an exception. :) But, as I said, it immediately brought in the moderator. So I feel I should not have asked it. And that's why a list for beginner-newbies (not meaning technically experienced "newbies," who are only new to The Bat!) would be a desirable thing. It would save you from all these long posts explaining the frustra
Re[2]: TBUDL - this very list
ROTFLMAOASTC -Mark Wieder Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 2 -- Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Mary Bull [MB] wrote:'
Please realize that it's never my intention to make anyone here feel
unwelcome. My only intention is to try to make the list have as
efficient an atmosphere as possible, since it's a busy one.
A>>
A>> Only if it's a risk. ;) IOW's, ask away, as long as you're not aware
A>> that the question or query is off-topic. ...
MB> Allie, I see what you are trying to guard against. But I would like to
MB> clarify one thing:
MB> In posting my query about FTP I thought I was staying on-topic.
I realised this, hence my comment, 'only if it's a risk'. We can't
hold anyone at fault if they post a message they genuinely see as
being on topic or one they aren't sure to be on-topic.
I immediately saw that this was what happened in your case.
However, there have been blatantly off-topic queries in the past. On
some occasions, they've been prefaced with admissions like, 'I know
this is off-topic but ...'.
MB> And it felt like a good time to ask my question. Perhaps, to stay
MB> on-topic, I should have asked the question on the thread where the
MB> term FTP occurred. But--then--there was Marck's warning about its
MB> long subject line.
Hmmm. There are two ways in which one can be off-topic.
a) What they post about has nothing to do with what's in the subject
header.
b) What they post about has nothing to do with what the discussion
list is about. TBUDL is for discussing the use of TB!. Difficulties
with or queries about the use of full-release versions of TB! are
discussed here. We also have TBTECH which is for again, discussions
about TB!, but of a more technical nature. TBTECH was started in an
effort to reduced the more technical discussions that wouldn't
interest the average TB! user or new users. In this way, TBUDL
subscribers wouldn't be turned off by an excess of traffic that
doesn't interest or means nothing to them.
I was really referring only to b).
MB> I am frustrated again. I do think Peter Meyns's implication may be
MB> right--and the frank suggestion made by Anne back in October: we
MB> need a different TB! list for beginners and newbies.
Do you still feel this way?
If so, I'm not sure why and really hope that you'll explain.
Basic questions by new users are always answered here and usually are
answered multiple times. Your FTP question wasn't an exception. :)
- --
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Re: TBUDL - this very list
Hello Allie, On Friday, January 17, 2003, 7:42 PM, you wrote: MB>> And I hope if there are any other shy lurkers MB>> like me, this will encourage them to ask questions--even at the MB>> risk of getting Off Topic. :) A> A> Only if it's a risk. ;) IOW's, ask away, as long as you're not aware A> that the question or query is off-topic. ... Allie, I see what you are trying to guard against. But I would like to clarify one thing: In posting my query about FTP I thought I was staying on-topic. The term was used in a very long thread--with a long subject line--in regard to adding features that would enable newsgroups, usenet, and HTML text editors in The Bat! The context in which it was used was confusing to me, but I felt shy about breaking into the thread. For one thing, Marck had just posted a warning about long subject lines, and yet the thread was continuing--so I did not want to post a Reply with that long subject line. For another, this was a discussion--almost an argument--among peers that I knew to be at least well acquainted with each other on TBUDL. And I was shy about interrupting the trend of their argument, when I had not been participating, only lurking. In an earlier exchange on the same subject I had already stated my preference for keeping The Bat! as it is, with its plain text editor and not too many other options to deal with. That is why I was staying out of the discussion, although reading it with great interest. Then Peter Meyns wrote his new thread beginning, which was an appeal to the posters to TBUDL to keep their language understandable, so as not to discourage newbies with not much technical background who had just subscribed. And it felt like a good time to ask my question. Perhaps, to stay on-topic, I should have asked the question on the thread where the term FTP occurred. But--then--there was Marck's warning about its long subject line. I am frustrated again. I do think Peter Meyns's implication may be right--and the frank suggestion made by Anne back in October: we need a different TB! list for beginners and newbies. Thanks for listening. -- Best regards, Mary Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Mary Bull [MB] wrote:'
MB> Extremely well put. And I hope if there are any other shy lurkers
MB> like me, this will encourage them to ask questions--even at the
MB> risk of getting Off Topic. :)
Only if it's a risk. ;) IOW's, ask away, as long as you're not aware
that the question or query is off-topic. With that warm welcome to
ask, we still do encourage those asking questions to peruse the FAQ's
and read the list information pages (the link is at the bottom of each
message from this list). Your question may very well be answered
there.
However:
Starting threads with questions/queries that are *known* to be
off-topic isn't at all encouraged. Yes, some find this list to have a
very friendly and hospitable atmosphere so they may feel encouraged to
ask anything on any topic. I love it when I see this, but I still
can't encourage the initiation of off-topic discussions.
The list is busy enough as it is. Not to mention that there's the well
established off-topic list to fall back on for off-topic needs.
- --
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Re: TBUDL - this very list
> You are very right. But it is completely understandable that, being > English the "official" language of the list, those whose native > language is English, or have a good knowledge of it, tend to forget > that there may be words or expressions some of us may not understand. Oh, don't worry - there are quite a few in the States, too, who are gaving big trouble figuring out what it is the other people are trying to say... George Bush: Nice to see you. What's happening? Condoleezza Rice: Sir, I have the report here about the new leader of China. George: Great. Lay it on me. Condi: Hu is the new leader of China. George: That's what I want to know. Condi: That's what I'm telling you. George: That's what I'm asking you. Who is the new leader of China? Condi: Yes. George: I mean the fellow's name. Condi: Hu. George: The guy in China. Condi: Hu. George: The new leader of China. Condi: Hu. George: The Chinaman! Condi: Hu is leading China. George: Now whaddya' asking me for? Condi: I'm telling you Hu is leading China. George: Well, I'm asking you. Who is leading China? Condi: That's the man's name. George: That's who's name? Condi: Yes. George: Will you or will you not tell me the name of the new leader of China? Condi: Yes, sir. George: Yassir? Yassir Arafat is in China? I thought he was in the Middle East. Condi: That's correct. George: Then who is in China? Condi: Yes, sir. George: Yassir is in China? Condi: No, sir. George: Then who is? Condi: Yes, sir. George: Yassir? Condi: No, sir. George: Look, Condi. I need to know the name of the new leader of China. Get me the Secretary General of the U.N. on the phone. Condi: Kofi? George: No, thanks. Condi: You want Kofi? George: No. Condi: You don't want Kofi. George: No. But now that you mention it, I could use a glass of milk. And then get me the U.N. Condi: Yes, sir. George: Not Yassir! The guy at the U.N. Condi: Kofi? George: Milk! Will you please make the call? Condi: And call who? George: Who is the guy at the U.N? Condi: Hu is the guy in China. George: Will you stay out of China?! Condi: Yes, sir. George: And stay out of the Middle East! Just get me the guy at the U.N. Condi: Kofi. George: All right! With cream and two sugars. Now get on the phone. (Condi picks up the phone) Condi: Rice, here. George: Rice? Good idea. And a couple of egg rolls, too. Maybe we should send some to the guy in China. And the Middle East. Can you get Chinese food in the Middle East? > ...we were all born naked and knowing nothing :-) Some people are still running around naked...they probably live in the Bush... / St Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
Hello Miguel, On Friday, January 17, 2003, 6:04 PM, you wrote: < snip > MB>> Or else, define the abbreviations ... M> ... But I don't think the solution is to not use some expressions or M> abbreviations, or explaining them each time. I believe the solution is M> not being shy and just asking when something is not understood. After M> all, we were all born naked and knowing nothing :-) Extremely well put. And I hope if there are any other shy lurkers like me, this will encourage them to ask questions--even at the risk of getting Off Topic. :) -- Best regards, Mary The Bat! 1.61 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
Hello Mary, > Or else, define the abbreviations, remembering that they are not > communicating just with peers and friends, but with the entire > list--broad in range of background and in range of native languages. You are very right. But it is completely understandable that, being English the "official" language of the list, those whose native language is English, or have a good knowledge of it, tend to forget that there may be words or expressions some of us may not understand. Same thing happens with some abbreviations, they are so common to some of us that we tend to forget that may be totally unknown to others. But I don't think the solution is to not use some expressions or abbreviations, or explaining them each time. I believe the solution is not being shy and just asking when something is not understood. After all, we were all born naked and knowing nothing :-) -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
I checked my two folders for TB stuff (actually, there are four when I include the "external archives" (old TB stuff)), and I found that by topic many of the discussions could have taken place on either of the lists (with the exception of the beta- list)... By ideal, there is a border between Newbies and Cluebies, but in my opinion that border isn't well respected. Now, did I send this message to the correct list?? / St Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, January 17, 2003, Mary Bull wrote... P>> for a couple of weeks I have been observing a tendency on this P>> list to discuss topics that don't fall in the range of TB! P>> beginners. Interesting as they may be, wouldn't it be better to P>> use TBTECH or TBOT? > Or else, define the abbreviations, remembering that they are not > communicating just with peers and friends, but with the entire > list--broad in range of background and in range of native languages. You're right. Take a look at what TBUDL expands to. TheBat User Discussion List. It isn't only for beginners, otherwise before long, the nice list people would have several lists just for the discussion of TheBat, such as completely new users, novice, getting there, know the basics... so on and so on. I gave stupid examples as a point. TB Tech on the other hand was setup to split what really is the technical side of TheBat such as macro creation [1], and complex regexp [2] off of the main list so as not to confuse the hell out of somebody that only wants to find out how to make TheBat filter on a To address. P>> I only mention this because I recommended TBUDL to several P>> friends, and some of them feel overwhelmed by the sheer amount of P>> messages they receive. Furthermore they don't understand what it's P>> all about. (SSL, IMAP and such.) > For instance, lately, in the fascinating argument about new features > for The Bat!, here's one old lady who doesn't know what FTP is, and > is too shy to break into the thread and ask. If you want to know, just ask on TBOT, or offlist, I'll be more than happy to explain... as I am sure will anybody else with the knowledge. P>> I'd like TBUDL to remain a forum for The Bat! beginners. Have you P>> all forgotten the times when you were first amazed at The Bat!? P>> (And had a lot of questions?) ;-) Yes, TBUDL probably is targeted at mainly beginners, with some more technical stuff in there too, such as the basic templating... but it is a user discussion list, which means it is bound to step slightly past the bounds of complete beginner, and as with *any* list, slightly off-topic from time to time. You'll often find somebody posts a suggestion for TB! to find out if anybody else would find it useful as well... and often a discussion will ensue, at which point somebody will probably suggest posting it to the wishlist on RitLabs site. - -- Jonathan Angliss ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQA/AwUBPiiGZyuD6BT4/R9zEQLRiwCfZthOrMQQZunF41ps4qZ5ZI1DFcAAni+w DAQmxdcpfuOGzCPNW0eUaHsq =O4bW -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TBUDL - this very list
Hello Peter, On Friday, January 17, 2003, 2:43 PM, you wrote: P> for a couple of weeks I have been observing a tendency on this list to P> discuss topics that don't fall in the range of TB! beginners. Interesting P> as they may be, wouldn't it be better to use TBTECH or TBOT? Or else, define the abbreviations, remembering that they are not communicating just with peers and friends, but with the entire list--broad in range of background and in range of native languages. P> I only mention this because I recommended TBUDL to several friends, and P> some of them feel overwhelmed by the sheer amount of messages they receive. P> Furthermore they don't understand what it's all about. (SSL, IMAP and P> such.) For instance, lately, in the fascinating argument about new features for The Bat!, here's one old lady who doesn't know what FTP is, and is too shy to break into the thread and ask. Although, when I do ask, as with the recent "cut line" thread that I started, I get enormous attention and help. Thanks again to everyone for that! P> I'd like TBUDL to remain a forum for The Bat! beginners. Have you all P> forgotten the times when you were first amazed at The Bat!? (And had a lot P> of questions?) ;-) Well, some beginners dive in already fully certified for deep water. But there are a lot of us, like me, who jump into the middle of a thread, top posting and whole quoting to beat the band, and need a little courteous help to be encouraged to ask our questions. And then there are others who perhaps stick a timid toe in the water, lurk awhile, never post at all, and disappear unremarked--and we may have lost a potentially great fellow Bat user. Think I'll start a new thread right now, and call it "What is FTP"? Anyway, guys, think of who your readers are as you pursue these arguments. Okay? Good points you have made in this Post, Peter. I hope there will be others besides me who agree. -- Best regards, Mary The Bat! 1.61 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
TBUDL - this very list
Hi all, for a couple of weeks I have been observing a tendency on this list to discuss topics that don't fall in the range of TB! beginners. Interesting as they may be, wouldn't it be better to use TBTECH or TBOT? I only mention this because I recommended TBUDL to several friends, and some of them feel overwhelmed by the sheer amount of messages they receive. Furthermore they don't understand what it's all about. (SSL, IMAP and such.) I'd like TBUDL to remain a forum for The Bat! beginners. Have you all forgotten the times when you were first amazed at The Bat!? (And had a lot of questions?) ;-) -- Cheers Peter Winamp currently playing: Merrilee Rush - Angel Of The Morning Always proofread carefully to see if you any words out. Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
