Re: [Texascavers] a caver video
loved the ending monologue/rant. Hauling tanks back to the entrance on an aborted dive trip in Honey Creek, thru seeming miles of sucking mud, I grumbled to myself that I was going to take up knitting. years later, I did. So there is still hope for the nettlebed explorers. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] a vertical practice video
great video. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Cavetex, etc.
yet another gratuitious ugly comment. This is why people get off cavetex. I cannot imagine what drives this bullying - and it tells me way more about the person doing it than the rather eccentric, gentle and amusing person being bullyied. On Feb 24, 2014, at 8:17 AM, Bill Steele wrote: I found a way to escape Locklear. Go in a cave. You won't see him there. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Oh, this? Just some teenage girls from Africa who invented a urine-powered generator.
For those of you who used pee in carbide lights http://m.io9.com/5958887/oh-this-just-some-teenage-girls-from-africa-who-invented-a-urine+powered-generator - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Hueco Tanks Pictograph Restoration Show
Texas Parks and Wildlife will air a show on October 21-27 about using a high-tech method to remove graffiti and restore pictographs at Hueco Tanks. so pictographs arent grafitti . . . - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] improvised stirrup
can the dreaded inchworm be far behind? - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] luggage rack for RAV4
Looking for the Toyota luggage crossbar unit for a 98 RAV 4, 4 door. I think several years in the vicinity of this one used the same rack. Anybody who has one they dont want, let me know, to me not cavetex. thanks, Nancy - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] thanks
for all the suggestions for roof racks. I've got enough to follow up on. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] food
anyone else remember when the gourmet meal during and post caving was an open unheated can of something, often glugged down without benefit of the unnecessary weight of a spoon? campbells soup was popular as well as beanie weanies and god knows whatever other delights. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] How long is Punkin Cave?
there is an obvious and common sense answer to this question which is rarely if ever applied. If asked about the length of ones back yard I seriously doubt most people would include every traversible foot. Cavers might tho. Nancy - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] news related / personal
David - I for one appreciate your posts and encourage you to continue. I realize its difficult not to take criticism personally, however my observation is that those critical people generally have nothing of value to say and so often ignore their own rules about whats OK for cavetex that it provides my daily laugh. heres another vote for your interesting posts Nancy - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] yakima roof rack for sale
Locking tower roof rack. 40 crossbars, fits any vehicle with appropriate clips available at REI. 3 upright bike mounts and set of boat supports. Seen plenty of action on many caving trips and still functional. $100 firm for everything. See in Wimberley. contact Nancy at 512 847 7422 or respond to email. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] An evacuation bag...
This from my SF friend: ...is a smart idea. You can type evacuation in Google get some good ideas. (As you may recall I have a Red Cross backpack in my car in my apartment to help me survive for 3 days if I experience an earthquake in SF.) I found this list in Wikipedia of items recommended for an evacuation bag. Some of the items you probably don't want but the list may help you get organized. The suggested contents of a bug-out bag vary, but most of the following are usually included: Enough food and water to last for 72 hours. This includes: Water for washing, drinking and cooking. Canada recommends 2 litres per person per day for drinking plus an additional 2 litres per person per day for cleaning and hygiene.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-out_bag#cite_note-14[15] New Zealand recommends 3 litres per person per day for drinkinghttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-out_bag#cite_note-15[16] US recommends 1 gallon (3.78 litres) per person per day.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-out_bag#cite_note-16[17] Non-perishable foodhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-out_bag#cite_note-17[18] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_purificationwater purification supplies Cooking supplieshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-out_bag#cite_note-18[19] A http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_aid_kitfirst aid kithttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-out_bag#cite_note-19[20] Fire starting tool (e.g., matches, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferroceriumferrocerium rod, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lighterlighter, etc.) A disaster plan including location of emergency centers, rallying points, possible evacuation routes etc. Professional emergency literature explaining what to do in various types of disaster, studied and understood before the actual disaster but kept for reference Maps and travel informationhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-out_bag#cite_note-20[21] Standard camping equipment, including sanitation supplieshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-out_bag#cite_note-21[22] Weather appropriate clothing (e.g., http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponchoponcho, headwear, gloves, etc.) Bedding items such as sleeping bags and blanketshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-out_bag#cite_note-22[23] Enough medicine to last an extended evacuation period Medical records Pet, child, and elderly care needshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-out_bag#cite_note-23[24] Battery or crank operated http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_radioRadio.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-out_bag#cite_note-24[25] Lighting (battery or crank operated http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flashlightflashlight, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glow_stickglow sticks).http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-out_bag#cite_note-25[26] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FirearmsFirearms and appropriate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammunitionammunition Cash and change, as electronic banking transactions may not be available during the initial period following an emergency or evacuation Positive Identification, such as drivers license, state I.D. card, or social security card Fixed-blade and folding knife http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duct_TapeDuct Tape and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roperope/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracordparacord Plastic tarps for shelter and water collection Slingshot, pellet gun, blowgun or other small game hunting equipment Wire for binding and animal traps The above list was developed (I think) in Australia. The following list was developed by the city of Torrence CA. Evacuation Bags (Bags should be easy to carry. Bags should have an ID tag and should be kept at home, work and in a vehicle. The following are recommended for an evacuation bag: Water, food, and manual can opener Flashlight Radio, battery operated Batteries Whistle Pocket knife Personal medications and prescriptions Extra keys to house and vehicle Basic first aid kit Walking shoes, warm clothes, a hat, and rain gear Extra prescription eye glasses, hearing aid or other vital personal items Toilet paper, plastic bags and other hygiene supplies Dust mask Paper, pens and tape for leaving messages Cash Copies of insurance and identification cards Any special items for children and seniors or people with disabilities The Red Cross website also has recommendations. The RC recommends that you notify friends family where you are going when they can expect to hear from you next. And, of course, listen to local advisories evacuate when they recommend itbetter safe than sorry. I hope you don't ever have to evacuate but being prepared is the best thing. Eric -- San Francisco has only one drawback. 'Tis hard to leave. - Rudyard Kipling
[Texascavers] fire readiness
I'm putting together a suitcase with clothes, passport, necessary legal papers and leaving it in the car. My friends in San Francisco call it an earthquake kit, in New Orleans they do it for floods. So sorry for everyone's losses. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Oh, this? Just some teenage girls from Africa who invented a urine-powered generator.
For those of you who used pee in carbide lights http://m.io9.com/5958887/oh-this-just-some-teenage-girls-from-africa-who-invented-a-urine+powered-generator - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] mexico traveling
Thursday Dec 6th Brigit Alexander, her 16 yr old daughter Mimi and school friend Teresa, and I drove to Real de Catorce for a multiday celebration of Humberto Fernandez' 70th bday. The drive down was swift and easy and uneventful. A bit bizarrely, before being allowed to enter the bridge on the US side, each car was being searched with that nifty flashlight and mirror on a stick. When I asked why - we were sonorously told that 'bad things were going in and out of Mexico'. Then we were quizzed as to whether we knew what they were. Brigit won points for quessing drugs were coming in. It was my opinion that bad manners were being exported, but no, turns out guns are being taken into Mexico strapped underneath tourist cars. Who knew. We asked when this search had started and were informed 'it was always this way'. Quess we were just lucky all those border crossings over the past 30 years never to see this. We had a short stop on the other side for papers for Teresa. While waiting in the parking lot, Mimi and I noticed a tv crew interviewing several of the other drivers. Turns out they were doing a story about campesinos traveling in caravans for safety. They were pretty impressed that 4 gringas were traveling alone and wanted to interview us. We wanted to get going and saw no reason to advertise our presence on tv. Most of the autopista traffic is trucks, probably 80- 90%. Made it to Real by dark, and got up before dawn to hike to the peak of the sacred mountain for a sunrise Huichol ceremony. Then the partying started in earnest with dinners, dances, drinks, live bands, and spectacular fireworks for the next 2 days. There were about 80 guests who had bussed, flown and driven (and in the case of the 4 Huichol, walked) in for the celebration. Hollywood was represented by the director and camera people of The Mexican and Pirates of the Caribeean. As usual there were at least 4 languages being spoken. Simultaneously, the town was celebrating one of their biggest holidays - the procession of the virgin, a weekend of promenading the virgins portrait thru the streets from one church to the other, then back, wild ringing of church bells, dancing in feathered sequined costumes (not sure what that was about) and live music. There was a group of about a dozen ATV's at the hotel next to Brigits. And perhaps 30 Harley riders at the Hotel Mina Real. A good time was apparently had by all. Mimi Teresa and I drove down to the partially completed Museo del Desierto, an ambitious underground complex with a fancy road, enormous parking lot, elaborate sculptures scattered across the creosote and cactus. and completely abandoned. Worth a visit, very UFOish, and protected by numerous peyote plants. On the drive home, we decided to try Colombia, since none of us had been there for several years and we were intrigued by the flashy billboards advertising crossing there. The Mexicans are building a multi lane divided highway parallel to the river and there are enormous complexes of factories, perhaps maquilidores? along the way. We were briefly dismayed by 2 long lines of trucks and only one other passenger car, idling. But Brigit opted past all the vehicles, driving up onto the grass to get to the vehicle permit booth to turn in her sticker. It was still trucks as far as we could see, but the Mexicans promptly opened another lane and waved us past everyone and onto the bridge. A delightful gesture. The US side as ever was far less friendly and seemed irritated that a passenger car had entered there interrupting their inactivity. Finally after forbidding Brigit to get out of the car, and questioning us numerous times about our occupations, why we were in Mexico, etc. they got bored and waved us on as well. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] travels in Mexico
Just returned from a 10 day splendid driving trip from Austin to Zacatecas. We had a swift friendly crossing at Laredo, an easy drive on the toll road south. We spent a couple of days in Real de Catorce, hiking and hanging out with friends then drove to my 72 yr old companion's casita in the mts of Jalisco, between Monte Escobedo (controlled by invisible zetas) and Mexquitic (ditto guzmans) Rumour has it that occasionally the road between the two towns is contested for ownership; we saw no sign of that or any other trouble. Lots of great hiking in the mts and barrancas, visited both towns which were clean prosperous and friendly, drove all over backroad Mexico, then had two delightful days in Ciudad Zacatecas - a gorgeous vibrant musical traveler filled city. Mexico is alive and well and wonderful as ever. Nancy - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Hueco Tanks Pictograph Restoration Show
Texas Parks and Wildlife will air a show on October 21-27 about using a high-tech method to remove graffiti and restore pictographs at Hueco Tanks. so pictographs arent grafitti . . . - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] improvised stirrup
can the dreaded inchworm be far behind? - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] luggage rack for RAV4
Looking for the Toyota luggage crossbar unit for a 98 RAV 4, 4 door. I think several years in the vicinity of this one used the same rack. Anybody who has one they dont want, let me know, to me not cavetex. thanks, Nancy - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] thanks
for all the suggestions for roof racks. I've got enough to follow up on. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] food
anyone else remember when the gourmet meal during and post caving was an open unheated can of something, often glugged down without benefit of the unnecessary weight of a spoon? campbells soup was popular as well as beanie weanies and god knows whatever other delights. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] How long is Punkin Cave?
there is an obvious and common sense answer to this question which is rarely if ever applied. If asked about the length of ones back yard I seriously doubt most people would include every traversible foot. Cavers might tho. Nancy - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] news related / personal
David - I for one appreciate your posts and encourage you to continue. I realize its difficult not to take criticism personally, however my observation is that those critical people generally have nothing of value to say and so often ignore their own rules about whats OK for cavetex that it provides my daily laugh. heres another vote for your interesting posts Nancy - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] yakima roof rack for sale
Locking tower roof rack. 40 crossbars, fits any vehicle with appropriate clips available at REI. 3 upright bike mounts and set of boat supports. Seen plenty of action on many caving trips and still functional. $100 firm for everything. See in Wimberley. contact Nancy at 512 847 7422 or respond to email. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] An evacuation bag...
This from my SF friend: ...is a smart idea. You can type evacuation in Google get some good ideas. (As you may recall I have a Red Cross backpack in my car in my apartment to help me survive for 3 days if I experience an earthquake in SF.) I found this list in Wikipedia of items recommended for an evacuation bag. Some of the items you probably don't want but the list may help you get organized. The suggested contents of a bug-out bag vary, but most of the following are usually included: Enough food and water to last for 72 hours. This includes: Water for washing, drinking and cooking. Canada recommends 2 litres per person per day for drinking plus an additional 2 litres per person per day for cleaning and hygiene.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-out_bag#cite_note-14[15] New Zealand recommends 3 litres per person per day for drinkinghttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-out_bag#cite_note-15[16] US recommends 1 gallon (3.78 litres) per person per day.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-out_bag#cite_note-16[17] Non-perishable foodhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-out_bag#cite_note-17[18] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_purificationwater purification supplies Cooking supplieshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-out_bag#cite_note-18[19] A http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_aid_kitfirst aid kithttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-out_bag#cite_note-19[20] Fire starting tool (e.g., matches, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferroceriumferrocerium rod, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lighterlighter, etc.) A disaster plan including location of emergency centers, rallying points, possible evacuation routes etc. Professional emergency literature explaining what to do in various types of disaster, studied and understood before the actual disaster but kept for reference Maps and travel informationhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-out_bag#cite_note-20[21] Standard camping equipment, including sanitation supplieshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-out_bag#cite_note-21[22] Weather appropriate clothing (e.g., http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponchoponcho, headwear, gloves, etc.) Bedding items such as sleeping bags and blanketshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-out_bag#cite_note-22[23] Enough medicine to last an extended evacuation period Medical records Pet, child, and elderly care needshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-out_bag#cite_note-23[24] Battery or crank operated http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_radioRadio.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-out_bag#cite_note-24[25] Lighting (battery or crank operated http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flashlightflashlight, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glow_stickglow sticks).http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-out_bag#cite_note-25[26] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FirearmsFirearms and appropriate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammunitionammunition Cash and change, as electronic banking transactions may not be available during the initial period following an emergency or evacuation Positive Identification, such as drivers license, state I.D. card, or social security card Fixed-blade and folding knife http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duct_TapeDuct Tape and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roperope/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracordparacord Plastic tarps for shelter and water collection Slingshot, pellet gun, blowgun or other small game hunting equipment Wire for binding and animal traps The above list was developed (I think) in Australia. The following list was developed by the city of Torrence CA. Evacuation Bags (Bags should be easy to carry. Bags should have an ID tag and should be kept at home, work and in a vehicle. The following are recommended for an evacuation bag: Water, food, and manual can opener Flashlight Radio, battery operated Batteries Whistle Pocket knife Personal medications and prescriptions Extra keys to house and vehicle Basic first aid kit Walking shoes, warm clothes, a hat, and rain gear Extra prescription eye glasses, hearing aid or other vital personal items Toilet paper, plastic bags and other hygiene supplies Dust mask Paper, pens and tape for leaving messages Cash Copies of insurance and identification cards Any special items for children and seniors or people with disabilities The Red Cross website also has recommendations. The RC recommends that you notify friends family where you are going when they can expect to hear from you next. And, of course, listen to local advisories evacuate when they recommend itbetter safe than sorry. I hope you don't ever have to evacuate but being prepared is the best thing. Eric -- San Francisco has only one drawback. 'Tis hard to leave. - Rudyard Kipling
[Texascavers] fire readiness
I'm putting together a suitcase with clothes, passport, necessary legal papers and leaving it in the car. My friends in San Francisco call it an earthquake kit, in New Orleans they do it for floods. So sorry for everyone's losses. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] civility
I'm glad this festering conversation is finally being aired. For years now the content police on this list have almost driven me to unsubscribing; the pleasure I take in other posts and in sharing my experiences caving or traveling in Mexico keeps me reading. I also derive enormous humour from the irony, apparently unintended of the people who police the list, stridently doing exactly what they are demanding others cease. But this latest round of taking personal grudges into public is very nasty indeed. This list is like a party - there are people I enjoy talking with and others I dont. I've long since learned which posts I can automatically delete and which I'll open. And that will be different for all of us. I personally am interested in the descriptions of the flat tire on the way to the grotto meeting, just as I am interested in the descriptions of someone recovering from a serious accident. This is life as lived by a diverse group of people called cavers. However even if I were deeply offended by either, I would have the courtesy to simply not read them. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Hueco Tanks Pictograph Restoration Show
Texas Parks and Wildlife will air a show on October 21-27 about using a high-tech method to remove graffiti and restore pictographs at Hueco Tanks. so pictographs arent grafitti . . . - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] improvised stirrup
can the dreaded inchworm be far behind? - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] luggage rack for RAV4
Looking for the Toyota luggage crossbar unit for a 98 RAV 4, 4 door. I think several years in the vicinity of this one used the same rack. Anybody who has one they dont want, let me know, to me not cavetex. thanks, Nancy - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] thanks
for all the suggestions for roof racks. I've got enough to follow up on. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] food
anyone else remember when the gourmet meal during and post caving was an open unheated can of something, often glugged down without benefit of the unnecessary weight of a spoon? campbells soup was popular as well as beanie weanies and god knows whatever other delights. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] How long is Punkin Cave?
there is an obvious and common sense answer to this question which is rarely if ever applied. If asked about the length of ones back yard I seriously doubt most people would include every traversible foot. Cavers might tho. Nancy - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] news related / personal
David - I for one appreciate your posts and encourage you to continue. I realize its difficult not to take criticism personally, however my observation is that those critical people generally have nothing of value to say and so often ignore their own rules about whats OK for cavetex that it provides my daily laugh. heres another vote for your interesting posts Nancy - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] yakima roof rack for sale
Locking tower roof rack. 40 crossbars, fits any vehicle with appropriate clips available at REI. 3 upright bike mounts and set of boat supports. Seen plenty of action on many caving trips and still functional. $100 firm for everything. See in Wimberley. contact Nancy at 512 847 7422 or respond to email. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] An evacuation bag...
This from my SF friend: ...is a smart idea. You can type evacuation in Google get some good ideas. (As you may recall I have a Red Cross backpack in my car in my apartment to help me survive for 3 days if I experience an earthquake in SF.) I found this list in Wikipedia of items recommended for an evacuation bag. Some of the items you probably don't want but the list may help you get organized. The suggested contents of a bug-out bag vary, but most of the following are usually included: Enough food and water to last for 72 hours. This includes: Water for washing, drinking and cooking. Canada recommends 2 litres per person per day for drinking plus an additional 2 litres per person per day for cleaning and hygiene.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-out_bag#cite_note-14[15] New Zealand recommends 3 litres per person per day for drinkinghttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-out_bag#cite_note-15[16] US recommends 1 gallon (3.78 litres) per person per day.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-out_bag#cite_note-16[17] Non-perishable foodhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-out_bag#cite_note-17[18] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_purificationwater purification supplies Cooking supplieshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-out_bag#cite_note-18[19] A http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_aid_kitfirst aid kithttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-out_bag#cite_note-19[20] Fire starting tool (e.g., matches, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferroceriumferrocerium rod, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lighterlighter, etc.) A disaster plan including location of emergency centers, rallying points, possible evacuation routes etc. Professional emergency literature explaining what to do in various types of disaster, studied and understood before the actual disaster but kept for reference Maps and travel informationhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-out_bag#cite_note-20[21] Standard camping equipment, including sanitation supplieshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-out_bag#cite_note-21[22] Weather appropriate clothing (e.g., http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponchoponcho, headwear, gloves, etc.) Bedding items such as sleeping bags and blanketshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-out_bag#cite_note-22[23] Enough medicine to last an extended evacuation period Medical records Pet, child, and elderly care needshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-out_bag#cite_note-23[24] Battery or crank operated http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_radioRadio.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-out_bag#cite_note-24[25] Lighting (battery or crank operated http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flashlightflashlight, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glow_stickglow sticks).http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-out_bag#cite_note-25[26] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FirearmsFirearms and appropriate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammunitionammunition Cash and change, as electronic banking transactions may not be available during the initial period following an emergency or evacuation Positive Identification, such as drivers license, state I.D. card, or social security card Fixed-blade and folding knife http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duct_TapeDuct Tape and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roperope/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracordparacord Plastic tarps for shelter and water collection Slingshot, pellet gun, blowgun or other small game hunting equipment Wire for binding and animal traps The above list was developed (I think) in Australia. The following list was developed by the city of Torrence CA. Evacuation Bags (Bags should be easy to carry. Bags should have an ID tag and should be kept at home, work and in a vehicle. The following are recommended for an evacuation bag: Water, food, and manual can opener Flashlight Radio, battery operated Batteries Whistle Pocket knife Personal medications and prescriptions Extra keys to house and vehicle Basic first aid kit Walking shoes, warm clothes, a hat, and rain gear Extra prescription eye glasses, hearing aid or other vital personal items Toilet paper, plastic bags and other hygiene supplies Dust mask Paper, pens and tape for leaving messages Cash Copies of insurance and identification cards Any special items for children and seniors or people with disabilities The Red Cross website also has recommendations. The RC recommends that you notify friends family where you are going when they can expect to hear from you next. And, of course, listen to local advisories evacuate when they recommend itbetter safe than sorry. I hope you don't ever have to evacuate but being prepared is the best thing. Eric -- San Francisco has only one drawback. 'Tis hard to leave. - Rudyard Kipling
[Texascavers] fire readiness
I'm putting together a suitcase with clothes, passport, necessary legal papers and leaving it in the car. My friends in San Francisco call it an earthquake kit, in New Orleans they do it for floods. So sorry for everyone's losses. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] spanish lessons good work
Thanks Moni - so few of go to mexico actually able to communicate with the locals. and it is always fun to get the slang versions of how people reaally talk. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] car papers
I've got papers that expire on the 17th of december. anyone know what happens if one enters on papers that expire while in Mexico? and is there a way to cancel here in the US? other wise what is the procedure? Nancy - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Personal Road-trip Report 8 of 20
Hopefully, he won't be as wacko as the other Craigslist riders that rode north with me, ahh David - there are quite a few currently respectable old cavers still around who were wacko riders on great adventures in the past. thanks for your descriptions of life on the road. takes me back . . . - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] road between monterrey and saltillo
Chris Nichols and I returned from Real de Catorce on Monday June 28 - our first time on the newly opened toll road. On the drive down we noticed that the road cuts were so new that the wire retaining mesh had not been hung. On the drive back, workers were swarming on the cliffs setting the mesh, perhaps in anticipation of the coming storm. A very few were using vertical devices, most were dangling with multiple body wraps halfway up the faces. It was an amazing sight to come around a corner and see 5-15 danglees struggling with the enormous and heavy rolls of metal. Only a fraction of the road cuts were secured on Monday. My quess is that vast quantities of rock came down in the rains. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Cave of the Yellow Dog
my recollection is that there wasnt particularly. interesting view of mongolia tho . . .
[Texascavers] drug related
Of course as the US is the ultimate customer for these drugs and our insane drug policies have created these cartels, it seems a bit odd to call it Mexico's problem. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Water and invasive natives
generally enjoy and often agree with sleazal's posts, AND like most humans in this last one he presupposes that we humans somehow 'know' what natural is. as tho nature herself hasnt got a clue how to revegetate land and habitats destroyed by human previous 'knowing'. If nature sees fit to fill a niche with junipers which by the by, provide food and habitat for most of the small mammals and birds of central texas, it would be somewhat presumptuous of me to naysay it. of course presumption is our middle name . . . - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] [Fwd: Bob Mitchell on Sotano de Huitzmolotitla 1958]
Hi rene - a couple of fun stories from oldtimers . . . I seem to recall that you arent on cavetex. cheery spring, Nance The following article about the Jumar and the man who invented them appeared in the Fall 1970 issue of the Southwest Texas State University Grotto Newsletter. THE JUMAR FACTORY by Brian Peterson This summer while traveling in Switzerland, Keith Heuss and myself decided that we would try to locate the factory in which Jumar ascenders are manufactured. After examining our Jumars, we finally found a label still intact and managed to pick out the name of a town, Reichenbach, Switzerland. After about two hours of looking over a map, we located a tiny dot symbolic of the town. Quickly we jumped in the Volkswagon camper and proceeded to look for it. Could this small town be the home of a great factory? The name of the town did correspond to the name on the Jumar, but there were only about thirty chalets. We stopped at a store and I got out with a Jumar. Speaking no German, I proceeded to wave my arms, roll my eyeballs, and shove the Jumar in the proprietors face. He quickly got the idea and sent me on my way down the road. However, he did provide us with a map. Obviously, he was somewhat less than proficient in the arts of geography because by using his map we got completely confused. We decided that we would ask the help of other locals. After talking to several housewives; many of whom thought we were trying to sell them the Jumar, we arrived at still another chalet. I knocked at the door and a man came out. When I showed him the Jumar and asked if he knew what it was, he replied, Yes, I make them. Quietly picking myself off the ground, I began to explain why we had come. The man, Julius Marte, was very receptive and asked us inside. He speaks only a few words of English so he called a friend to translate. When the friend arrived we went down to the factory which is in Mr. Marte's basement. Jumar parts were everywhere! Wow! Fantastic! Mr. Marte opened a drawer approximately three feet long, two feet wide, and one and one-half foot deep. It was completely filled with right-hand Jumar jaws. He said that he originally designed these ascenders for use in climbing down to eagle nests to band baby eagles. This was back in 1958. Mountain climbers quickly saw the value of these devices and then later cavers started using them. The recent change in the alloy of the cams was necessary due to the grit and mud encountered in caves. We rigged a rope in his yard and showed him various methods of prussiking with his devices. He then showed us the method which is enclosed with the Jumars. He saw the value of our methods but joked with us by saying, I can understand why you don't know how to use them, I have never translated the instructions to English. We all laughed. We also demonstrated various rappell devices and Mr. Marte was quite interested. He requested that we collect and send him pictures of different climbing methods using his ascenders and any recommendations or improvements that we may have. Sotano_de_Huitzmolotitla.doc Description: MS-Word document - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] apologies
for sending to whole list. If you missed those stories the first time around they are worth reading. Nancy - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] mala mujer
This may be of some interest to those cavers who used to visit the El Abra - its an exchange about mala mujer with the amazing naturalist Jim Conrad who lives parttime in Mexico ( his very worthwhile newsletter available free! digitally!! at naturalist_newslet...@backyardnature.net - thank you Mixon for turning me onto this) COW-ITCH Here and there in the forest where it's particularly protected from the sun and wind -- where it's moist and shadowy -- you find shrubs or small trees with thick, brittle branches and broad, veiny, shallowly sawtooth-margined leaves, such as is shown at wonder how this relates to the shrub/tree we called mala mujer in the arid impenetrable scrub forest of northern mexico - the long narrow El Abra range on the east coast south of Mante? We were up there to chop our way to the various big pits that had been sighted by small plane - and distressingly found - when we would come back the next season, that our path had been taken over by mala mujer, an intensely reactive nettle plant which advantageously took the tiny amount of sunlight we opened up. No, this Cow Itch is in the Nettle Family while Mala Mujer, which stings just like it, is in the Euphorb or Poinsettia Family. I've seen another name for it,though, Mala Hombre, so you're not the first to see a similarity in the stings. and for those of you who enjoy caving reminiscences: The pits were well worth the effort. One that involved a 3 day chop opened up on a 100foot diameter 60 foot deep wonderland where dozens of pairs of military macaws resided. We simply sat (we had no rope with us that day) and observed them flying about from above for a timeless spell. The El Abra has no water and no resources desired by the locals who live below and is almost completely left alone by humans. It is so impenetrable that to even step a few feet off the trail we chopped and flagged was to invite being lost for days as one caver famously discovered. In his 3 days of wandering increasingly deliriously he drank water from bromeliads and encountered a jaguar in a long eye locked moment in a twilight opening. Afew years earlier, the cavers stumbled across some very lost locals who had come up to hunt and returned them to their village, where a major fiesta was held in our honor and to celebrate their resurrection. In all the years we spent exploring there, we met only one local who offered to *guide* us to a pit he had been to, years back. He arrived while we were having coffee and with one of our volunteers took off at breakneck speed thru the jungle (there must be a word for arid jungle, but I cant think of it) periodically flagging, while the rest of us crashed along behind enlarging the path. He led us straight to the pit in about 4 hours- well, as straight as one can go when the ground is extremely solutioned with ravines, leg breaking holes in the pinnacley karst covered in slippery entangling vines groundcover shrubs and trees. A major feat of dead reckoning and memory and perhaps some other sense most of us no longer have access to.
Re: [Texascavers] leaf-cutter ants in Mexico
There were some ants in South Texas that made underground nests which humped up above ground (sorta like fireant mounds except 10x bigger) and which created large subsurface voids. On more than one occasion we were unlucky enough to drive over these mounds hidden by tall pasture grass and the front tire of the pick-up fell into them and the truck got stuck and we had to get towed out. It is my recollection that these were a type of leaf-cutter ant which, by the way, don't (or didn't) sting. Those events DID create specific memories. --Ediger sounds a lot like the termite mounds of madagascar. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] new laws
When I think of the fun I had when I was a kid doing things that are now illegal -- Mixon Really. My dad used to let the 3 of us (ages 3 - 9) ride all over Rockport on the tailgate of the station wagon holding onto whatever we could find. Thank god for growing up in the 50's. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Ed Alexander's Memorial
Everyone is invited to celebrate with the friends and family of Ed Alexander. Allow plenty of time to reach Flat Rock by 11 am, drop off your potluck dish at the lodge and then drive down to the caver reunion site. A formal ceremony and music will begin promptly at noon. Nancy Edward Alexander November 25, 1942 - October 17, 2009 A celebration of Ed Alexander's life will take place on Sunday, Dec. 6, 2009, 11:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m. At Flat Creek Ranch (www.txsranch.com) Directions and Map (it's about an hour's drive from Austin): http://www.txsranch.com/directions.htm Hilltop Ceremony (accessible) to begin at 12:00 noon Bring a chair or blanket Second line will proceed (with your instrument of choice) to Blue Hall for lunch around 3:00 p.m. Bring Potluck, side dishes, desserts, beverages There will be meat, potato salad, cobbler A family photo album will be available if you want to add a picture, write something, or include a memento. Camping is available beginning Friday, 6:00 p.m.- Sunday 6:00 p.m. Overnight Accommodations for cabins and rooms will be provided upon advanced request Friday and Saturday nights. For Camping and/or Accommodations Contact James Strickland by E-mail at: str...@childinc.org
[Texascavers] Ed Alexander's Memorial
Everyone is invited to celebrate with the friends and family of Ed Alexander. Allow plenty of time to reach Flat Rock by 11 am, drop off your potluck dish at the lodge and then drive down to the caver reunion site. A formal ceremony and music will begin promptly at noon. Nancy Edward Alexander November 25, 1942 - October 17, 2009 A celebration of Ed Alexander's life will take place on Sunday, Dec. 6, 2009, 11:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m. At Flat Creek Ranch (www.txsranch.com) Directions and Map (it's about an hour's drive from Austin): http://www.txsranch.com/directions.htm Hilltop Ceremony (accessible) to begin at 12:00 noon Bring a chair or blanket Second line will proceed (with your instrument of choice) to Blue Hall for lunch around 3:00 p.m. Bring Potluck, side dishes, desserts, beverages There will be meat, potato salad, cobbler A family photo album will be available if you want to add a picture, write something, or include a memento. Camping is available beginning Friday, 6:00 p.m.- Sunday 6:00 p.m. Overnight Accommodations for cabins and rooms will be provided upon advanced request Friday and Saturday nights. For Camping and/or Accommodations Contact James Strickland by E-mail at: str...@childinc.org
Re: [Texascavers] [Fwd: Hunters being the hunted in Mexico]
well not having read the article, only the intriguing title - I must say I've always entertained a Gary Larson like picture of doves, javelinas, deer, elk, moose, buffalo, squirrels etc armed with high velocity rifles.
[Texascavers] Ed Alexander's Memorial this sunday
Everyone is invited to celebrate with the friends and family of Ed Alexander. Allow plenty of time to reach Flat Rock by 11 am, drop off your potluck dish at the lodge and then drive down to the caver reunion site. A formal ceremony and music will begin promptly at noon. Nancy Edward Alexander November 25, 1942 - October 17, 2009 A celebration of Ed Alexander's life will take place on Sunday, Dec. 6, 2009, 11:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m. At Flat Creek Ranch (www.txsranch.com) Directions and Map (it's about an hour's drive from Austin): http://www.txsranch.com/directions.htm Hilltop Ceremony (accessible) to begin at 12:00 noon Bring a chair or blanket Second line will proceed (with your instrument of choice) to Blue Hall for lunch around 3:00 p.m. Bring Potluck, side dishes, desserts, beverages There will be meat, potato salad, cobbler A family photo album will be available if you want to add a picture, write something, or include a memento. Camping is available beginning Friday, 6:00 p.m.- Sunday 6:00 p.m. Overnight Accommodations for cabins and rooms will be provided upon advanced request Friday and Saturday nights. For Camping and/or Accommodations Contact James Strickland by E-mail at: str...@childinc.org
[Texascavers] yakima rooftop bike racks for sale
48 inch rooftop Yakima rack available with 3 locking jaw mount bike racks. Some parts old, not very pretty and still strong and functional, survivors of many 4wd trips to Mexico. Some parts brand new. Kit and caboodle for 90$ - about 400$ brand new. call or email Nancy 512.847.7422 - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Re yakima racks
the towers and crossbars are taken - 3 yakima jaw mount bike racks available, call or email. great for cave recon. Nancy 512 847 7422 - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] hooray for texas cavers
For the past 6 months I've written to cajole, harrangue and generally beat the bushes for volunteers for ICS. Well all of you came through spectacularly to create an event that every participant I spoke with had nothing but praise for. There were those of you that worked round the clock, and behind the scenes and pretty much thanklessly, so THANK YOU, you were seen and appreciated. and those that stepped in whenever there was a need no matter how bizarre - pump beer for 4 hours? take a visitor to mass? make a flight change in chinese? What I admire far and away about cavers is not our science or explorations or photography or presentations but that wonderful ingenuity, sense of humour (mechanical bull, putting tee by the portapotty) general willingness to jump right in whenever and wherever something needs to get done and generosity of community. Hooray for all of us, Nancy - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] hooray for texas cavers/for those who feel left out
We are all texas cavers as far as I'm concerned. Nancy - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Niki Lake
please contact me off post. Nancy - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] ICS photos: Frank's public link
If you're not on Facebook, try this link: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2032400id=1172443723l=05a4412d22http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2032400id=1172443723l=05a4412d22
RE: [Texascavers] ICS Related
Vacation is more precious than money Many places will not let one take time off without pay. Maybe the question is - whose life is this anyway and what am I willing to trade for it? Nnacy
[Texascavers] ICS followup
Wow - I have had a broken leg ever since I got home! I thought it was from a bad fall 2 months earlier but now I'm thinking it was ICS. Nance - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] moccasin venom
I don't know if it is true but I have heard that ounce for ounce, moccasin venom is more dangerous than our other pit vipers. Something to do with different properties in their venom. dont know about that, but a friend was struck on a dry path at a state park 3 weeks ago and the anti venin, according to the hospital is $25,000/ per dose. she had two . . . . and is now fine. Nancy
[Texascavers] I'd like to help with ICS - what next
Hey Nancy, I will be coming in on Saturday and Sunday to help. Who do I talk to and what do I do? We will (hopefully) have an up to date list of volunteer needs at INFO each day, and get folks who wish to help connected with a task that they are interested in. Also I'm certain that any given coordinator would be happy for you to contact them directly. thanks for the response Nancy - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] volunteers
Good Grief - how about if everybody took the time they spend talking about volunteering and just complete a volunteer task? and for those of you who have lots of suggestions about improvements - how about if YOU get them cleared with the appropriate coordiantor and make those improvements? feel free to email me and I'll put you in touch with a way to use all this excess time and energy! Nancy -- Nancy Weaver Volunteer Co-ordinator ICS nan...@io.com 512.847.7422 - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] RE: heaters for bats
How on earth have bats managed to survive so long without thoughtful human intervention? Or any other part of nature? Good thing we can now remedy nature's poor planning. I wonder what the displacement factor in the production of the heater boxes is - ie how many bats or habitat does it cost environmentally to produce each of these things? Nancy
[Texascavers] International Congress - How to be part of it
Dear Cavers: some of you who will not be able to allocate the time and/or money to attend the ICS in Kerrville in July of this year, have still expressed interest in helping our volunteer staff to put on, maintain and put away the International Big Event of the Decade here in Texas. The ICS staff has come up with an idea that some grottoes are considering and we would like to offer to everyone who cannot attend the Congress/Convention. Perhaps you would enjoy coming early, camping on the grounds and helping to set up everything from the plumbing for outdoor sinks, to marking campground roadways, building exhibits, or setting up the venue for the outdoor vendors and parties. We'll be doing that the weekend before the Congress on July 11-12. Will you be in the San Antonio area on Tuesday and Wednesday, July 14-15? If so, let us know. We'll be having a stuffing party to fill the registration satchels with information and goodies and then get them up to Kerrville. What about immediately before the Congress, Thursday through Saturday, July 16-18? Your help will be especially needed finishing the campground set-up, helping vendors move their wares into their rooms, and setting up rooms for meeting, exhibits, and more. The Congress is offering day passes so that after volunteering you could stay on to celebrate at the opening festivities and meet some of the many and varied cavers who will benefit from your contribution. Or perhaps you would like to arrive on the last day, Sunday July 26th, pay the one day pass fee, and stay on to help dismantle Texas' largest caving party that day and especially on Monday the 27th. Either way please contact me, the Congress Volunteer Coordinator, and we'll work out just the right way for you and your friends to be part of the excitement. Nancy Weaver nan...@io.com Volunteer Coordinator ICS PS: While this message is aimed at Texas cavers and grottos, the invitation is open to any caver and grotto that wants to help. Please post or forward this message to any one or list you think is interested.
[Texascavers] Danish researcher finds nanothermite in 9/11 dust/ sorta relevant
Title: Danish researcher finds nanothermite in 9/11 dust/ sorta r since many cavers have a piercing interest in explosives, thought this would be appropriate This is a translation of an interviewdone on Danish TV on April 6thwith Dr.Niels Harrit, aresearch chemist (see reference to published articleat end)who has found unarguable proof of nano-thermite in huge quantities from the dust of the 9/11 rubble. When will we investigate what really happened? If you've read alot of the information put together, you may remember that the security firm for the Twin Towers was changed just before Sept. 11th, and I seem to remember that major work which necessitated offices being shut down on alternating days for 10 days before the planes hit.Why is there so much resistance to really looking at what happened? S. The first author on this recent paper,[1] Niels H. Harrit, Associate Professor at the Department of Chemistry at the University of Copenhagen and expert in nano-chemistry, has given the below interview at approximately 10:30 p.m. April 6, 2009 on TV 2 News in Denmark ( http://news.tv2.dk ), one of the two most respected Danish television channels: A danish scientist Niels Harrit, on nano-thermite in the WTC dust ( english subtitles ), Enderlein79, April 10, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_tf25lx_3o The following is an English-translation transcript of the aforementioned interview: Interviewer: International researchers have found traces of explosives among the World Trade Center rubble. A new scientific article concludes that impacts from the two hijacked aircraft did not cause the collapses in 2001. We turn our attention to 9/11: the major attack in New York. Apparently the two airplane impacts did not cause the towers to collapse, according to a newly published scientific article. Researchers found nano-thermite explosive in the rubble, that cannot have come from the planes. They believe several tonnes of explosives were placed in the buildings in advance. Niels Harrit, you and eight other researchers conclude in this article, that it was nano-thermite that caused these buildings to collapse. What is nano-thermite? Niels Harrit: We found nano-thermite in the rubble. We are not saying only nano-thermite was used. Thermite itself dates back to 1893. It is a mixture of aluminum and rust-powder, which react to create intense heat. The reaction produces iron, heated to 2500 °C. This can be used to do welding. It can also be used to melt other iron. Nanotechnology makes things smaller. So in nano-thermite, this powder from 1893 is reduced to tiny particles, perfectly mixed. When these react, the intense heat develops much more quickly. Nano-thermite can be mixed with additives to give off intense heat, or serve as a very effective explosive. It contains more energy than dynamite, and can be used as rocket fuel. Interviewer: I Googled nano-thermite, and not much has been written about it. Is it a widely known scientific substance? Or is it so new that other scientists are hardly aware of it? Harrit: It is a collective name for substances with high levels of energy. If civilian researchers (like myself) are not familiar with it, it is probably because they do not do much work with explosives. As for military scientists, you would have to ask them. I do not know how familiar they are with nanotechnology. Interviewer: So you found this substance in the WTC, why do you think it caused the collapses? Harrit: Well, it's an explosive. Why else would it be there? Interviewer: You believe the intense heat melted the building's steel support structure, and caused the building to collapse like a house of cards? Harrit: I cannot say precisely, as this substance can serve both purposes. It can explode and break things apart, and it can melt things. Both effects were probably used, as I see it. Molten metal pours out of the South Tower several minutes before the collapse. This indicates the whole structure was being weakened in advance. Then the regular explosives come into play. The actual collapse sequence had to be perfectly timed, all the way down. Interviewer: What quantities are we talking about? Harrit: A lot. There were only two planes, but three skyscrapers collapsed. We know roughly how much dust was created. The pictures show huge quantities, everything but the steel was pulverized. And we know roughly how much unreacted thermite we have found. This is the loaded gun: material that did not ignite for some reason. We are talking about tonnes. Over 10 tonnes, possibly 100 tonnes. Interviewer: Ten tonnes, possibly 100 tonnes, in three buildings? And these substances are not normally found in such buildings? Harrit: No. These materials are extremely advanced. Interviewer: How do you place such material in a skyscraper, on all the floors? Harrit: How you would get it in? Interviewer: Yes. Harrit: If I had to transport it in those quantities I would use pallets: get a truck and move it in
[Texascavers] First Aid Volunteers for ICS Needed
CALLING ALL MD'S, EMTS OR GENERALLY KNOWLEDGABLE FIRST AID TYPES. ICS NEEDS HELP KEEPING A FIRST AID STATION OPEN 24/7 DURING THE CONGRESS Please contact Nancy Weaver nan...@io.com or Bob Cowell bcow...@satx.rr.com if you can help with some shifts at the first aid station. We are particularly looking for someone who might like to use the station as their campsite (bed and bathroom) in exchange for being on call for the night shift. This is one volunteer job that can literally be done while you sleep. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] RE: Mexico #18 of 20
Just returned from another delightful week in Mexico, where the only trouble seems to be how much of a good time to have. I have always felt safe, hitchhiking (years ago) as a single woman, taking buses or driving, visiting friends in cities or caving in remote areas. I have also always felt safe going thru military/armed checkpoints. Mexicans like most other people I've encountered around the world have generally been likeable and responsive to polite interaction. There does seem to be an increase in for ransom kidnappings of extremely wealthy Mexicans, at least according to the stories of my Mexican friends. I think the casual american would be quite safe from this. The only unpleasantness I ever experience is crossing back into the United States. Nancy
[Texascavers] marijuana and meth labs problem reduced
and of course the illegal drug activities and the profits of the groups that benefit could be cut to zero by simply making marijuana and meth legal. voila, just like prohibition - the same number would use the product, however no crimes or vast criminal organizations would flourish. way too simple, eh? oh yes, for profit prisons, the fastest growing, best protected investment in the US would disappear as well . . . - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Shaping Sound
Title: Shaping Sound thought the Maya references might be of interest. The link to the entire article is provided. Along these lines, I watched of a video of some friends climbing out of Golondrinas last night. One of them was singing Amazing Grace around the midpoint and the reverb was astonishing.. Two observers on the surface had distincly different experiences - the one at the lip where the rope was rigged heard each word of the song distinctly. The other, on the low side, heard only a long swelling mmm for the duration of the song. Nancy Shaping Sound Structures can be designed to create auditory effects ByAlan Hall http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=shaping-sound SACRED ECHOES One speaker at the conference who was not at all surprised by Meseguer's findings was acoustical consultant David Lubman of Westminster, Calif. Lubman is one of a small but growing number of researchers who are pioneering a new discipline that might be called paleoacoustics or archaeoacoustics. These investigators are intrigued by the curious sound phenomena reported at many ancient sites. And, unlike many archaeologists, they do not believe they are accidental but proof that some ancient people had a sophisticated knowledge of acoustics and built it into their structures. Lubman first became intrigued by reports of a curious echo from the Mayan pyramid of Kukulkan at Chichen Itza, in Mexico's Yucatan region. The odd chirped echo resounds from the pyramid's staircases in response to hand claps of people standing near its base. To hear for himself, Lubman packed up his recording gear and traveled to Chichen Itza last January. After studying the staircases and analyzing his recordings and sonograms of the echoes, Lubman came back convinced that this was no architectural freak. In his paper, Lubman argued that the design of the staircases was deliberate and that the echo is an ancient recording, coded in stone, of the call of the Maya's sacred bird, the quetzal. Like the tubes in Sempere's sculpture, the treads of the stairs at Kukulkan consist of elements that are repeated at regular intervals, or are spatially periodic. When periodic design elements are composed of sound reflective materials [such as stone], and if certain other conditions are met, odd echoes or other strange acoustical effects may result, says Lubman. He contends that the oddly narrow steps with abnormally high risers (an illogical configuration for people whose descendants are of short stature) were built to voice the call of the sacred bird. Other investigators have noticed the relationship between structure and sound in many ancient sites. Steven Waller, for one, made a seminal observation while admiring Neolithic cave art in Spain--the paintings seemed to be placed at locations where there were strong acoustical resonances. He and others have since identified hundreds of such sites around the world. Human uses for sound, no less than the other perceptual modalities, must surely have shaped human habitations in many ways not yet considered, says Lubman. Unfortunately, in the modern world such acoustical effects are unusually considered unwanted artifacts caused by an architect's failure to consider acoustics. Even when acoustics are considered to be paramount, there have been glitches--such as the concert hall in New York's Lincoln Center that raised an outcry in 1962 and was eventually gutted and reconstructed at great expense. So maybe modern architects, who are mainly concerned with the visual impact of their work, should borrow a page from the artists and ancients to create environments that apprehend an equally important human sense--hearing. The next time you are in the lobby of a building or facing a grand staircase, clap your hands. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] While Detroit Slept - A Better Place Arose
this may interest the many who think about 'mobility miles' Nancy December 10, 2008 Op-Ed Columnist http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/opinion/10friedman.html?hphttp://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/opinion/10friedman.html?hp While Detroit Slept By http://topics.nytimes.com/top/opinion/editorialsandoped/oped/columnists/thomaslfriedman/index.html?inline=nyt-perTHOMAS L. FRIEDMAN As I think about our bailing out Detroit, I cant help but reflect on what, in my view, is the most important rule of business in todays integrated and digitized global market, where knowledge and innovation tools are so widely distributed. Its this: Whatever can be done, will be done. The only question is will it be done by you or to you. Just dont think it wont be done. If you have an idea in Detroit or Tennessee, promise me that youll pursue it, because someone in Denmark or Tel Aviv will do so a second later. Why do I bring this up? Because someone in the mobility business in Denmark and Tel Aviv is already developing a real-world alternative to Detroits business model. I dont know if this alternative to gasoline-powered cars will work, but I do know that it can be done and Detroit isnt doing it. And therefore it will be done, and eventually, I bet, it will be done profitably. And when it is, our bailout of Detroit will be remembered as the equivalent of pouring billions of dollars of taxpayer money into the mail-order-catalogue business on the eve of the birth of eBay. It will be remembered as pouring billions of dollars into the CD music business on the eve of the birth of the iPod and iTunes. It will be remembered as pouring billions of dollars into a book-store chain on the eve of the birth of Amazon.com and the Kindle. It will be remembered as pouring billions of dollars into improving typewriters on the eve of the birth of the PC and the Internet. What business model am I talking about? It is Shai Agassis electric car network company, called Better Place. Just last week, the company, based in Palo Alto, Calif., announced a partnership with the state of Hawaii to road test its business plan there after already inking similar deals with Israel, Australia, the San Francisco Bay area and, yes, Denmark. The Better Place electric car charging system involves generating electrons from as much renewable energy such as wind and solar as possible and then feeding those clean electrons into a national electric car charging infrastructure. This consists of electricity charging spots with plug-in outlets the first pilots were opened in Israel this week plus battery-exchange stations all over the respective country. The whole system is then coordinated by a service control center that integrates and does the billing. Under the Better Place model, consumers can either buy or lease an electric car from the French automaker Renault or Japanese companies like Nissan (General Motors snubbed Agassi) and then buy miles on their electric car batteries from Better Place the way you now buy an Apple cellphone and the minutes from ATT. That way Better Place, or any car company that partners with it, benefits from each mile you drive. G.M. sells cars. Better Place is selling mobility miles. The first Renault and Nissan electric cars are scheduled to hit Denmark and Israel in 2011, when the whole system should be up and running. On Tuesday, Japans Ministry of Environment invited Better Place to join the first government-led electric car project along with Honda, Mitsubishi and Subaru. Better Place was the only foreign company invited to participate, working with Japans leading auto companies, to build a battery swap station for electric cars in Yokohama, the Detroit of Japan. What I find exciting about Better Place is that it is building a car company off the new industrial platform of the 21st century, not the one from the 20th the exact same way that Steve Jobs did to overturn the music business. What did Apple understand first? One, that todays technology platform would allow anyone with a computer to record music. Two, that the Internet and MP3 players would allow anyone to transfer music in digital form to anyone else. You wouldnt need CDs or record companies anymore. Apple simply took all those innovations and integrated them into a single music-generating, purchasing and listening system that completely disrupted the music business. What Agassi, the founder of Better Place, is saying is that there is a new way to generate mobility, not just music, using the same platform. It just takes the right kind of auto battery the iPod in this story and the right kind of national plug-in network the iTunes store to make the business model work for electric cars at six cents a mile. The average American is paying today around 12 cents a mile for gasoline transportation, which also adds to global warming and
Re: [Texascavers] Not caving related
Ron - you will likely provoke a firestorm with this - of the wrong sort, so let me hurry to thank you for posting it. This is probably the most important crossroads for the US, whether we let go of all other concerns (like how old graffitti is) and pay attention to the massive theft of our constitution, bill of rights and, economy and right to life liberty and the pursuit of happpiness. For anyone who has ever wondered how on earth decent Germans could have allowed the debacle of the 30's and 40's to occur - you may wish to recall the words For evil to flourish, it is only necessary for good people to do nothing Nancy
[Texascavers] photo
It seems so sad to me that such a drop dead gorgeous photo should be dissected in terms of how it was taken. Is anyone just enjoying it? - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] The Battle of the Little Big Horn
The thing that gets to me is how in white history texts, the word massacre is used to describe ay event in which whites were killed by indians, and the word battle is used to describe any event dear Chris - it doesnt stop there. You may notice that 'terrorists' blow up americans, and soldiers destroy Iraqi, Afghani, Vietnamese . . . weddings, civilians, schoolchildren, temples all of whom are 'suspected terrorists'. Its nice always being right Nancy I find the question Why are we here? to be typically human. I'd suggest Are we here? would be the more logical question. - Mr. Spock, Star Trek
[Texascavers] for sale: trailor tow side mirror
One passenger side electronic telescoping rear view mirror, should fit any Ford 250 or 350 truck. Custom conversion upgrade. Brand new still in bubble wrap. 175$ retail, will sell for 125$. contact by phone or email -- Nancy Weaver Volunteer Co-ordinator ICS nan...@io.com 512.847.7422 - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] movies - WALL E
highly recommended, thought provoking mirror of just how we might be burying ourselves in stuff and stuffing our selves into obsolescence. A disturbing number of patrons at the show I attended looked just like the future. and it was heartwarming to imagine Stone's robotprobe as the whimsical lonely robot - in - love. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] air cave below water
that's really wierd! Apparently it is above the water table. It otherwise seems that it would fill up with water. -WaV there is a fascinating place in Honey Creek at the end of the grand finale. there is a circular swimming pool room perhaps 12 feet across (been a long time, could be way off on dimensions) which one can climb down and under into - an identical swimming pool room directly below the top one. I dont think we came up with any particular name for that place. Nancy - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Before the Deluge
A popular theory of speleogenesis in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries was that caves were eroded when the water of the flood came from within the earth and/or when it drained back into it. If one isnt utterly literal - that explanation would certainly jibe with my understanding of speleogenesis. Most caves are formed below the water and emerge when the water levels go down. Just as the story of creation (if one can get over 'knowing' what is meant by a day) would seem to accurately reflect the current geologic/biologic understanding of the order of creation. Einstein famously said that if one thoroughly understands their field of expertise, they can explain it to a 5 year old child. Might be interesting for us to see if we can describe what we 'know to be true' in terms easily grasped by a 5 year old. Might bear a startling resemblance to some creation stories that we are dismissive of . . . Nance - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Cave Ceremony - Jodi Roberts
Saturday July 19th $25 Cave Without a Name Women's Peace Ceremony Concert http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001VJpDV53jJbinfFc0k3UUymq_5Eao7M0HAuaUbFb4EJK4lzvxpedkPwQ-X2z8SZYJL10kkfK6rNZmjPcKJ1-eBviNShMbCEwaOeKsYz2mDuwA9FuP7dVasg==Sherry Gingras on Percussion http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001VJpDV53jJbgzP0J5MZlMf-ZRkl2V0uupDWFctH8Xl9xfzTWgr0O6sWCxHk50Q_Xhcswp7pLLZQY6V8N2rJLwpqSH5BUPlCeKGOcScozxCUjIgpZyvoTM7xwQRbbyreMkJodi Roberts Tibetan Bowls, Bells, and Wind Gongs http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001VJpDV53jJbgimyaD0hXuN7TeWzalmOFXZUnjJslxn0xNgbEaMxSKnn7OIGnTXir0_yUS8rwSbk6TKwNtcJPN9bUqht5b7hghfqFwnmaUAvQgyoYE4kvB_Rl9D7NZPR78Stephanie Phillips Viola Lauren D'Albert on didgeridoo and doumbek 325 Kreutzberg Rd Boerne Texas Women Only Please Tickets available at the http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001VJpDV53jJbitsSV0RHR2iJUeuvX49KK1g-Mkq0AF8QCtzjblfdhl8qPgdgqnsKGOtIjjOQpojwm7Zm-7iciMCAU1_-ZzB5nCEuUb5tmm8iuwtDvw9efEeEAbmsUHO_sZCave Website click here Saturday September 20th 7PM $25 Equinox Cave Ceremony http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001VJpDV53jJbikSZ8aNuFVKNXsiB2ProiiVQArPlbynNzISiSU06Dgj1ly7nTMoqW6VrX1uT0cQWfZU9x1lff3IVyRl4a1q_it8Cm8eHo7ayM25dTQX-ZJxuhDrgddWG8DPaul Hubbert on Vocals and Crystal Bowls http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001VJpDV53jJbgzP0J5MZlMf-ZRkl2V0uupDWFctH8Xl9xfzTWgr0O6sWCxHk50Q_Xhcswp7pLLZQY6V8N2rJLwpqSH5BUPlCeKGOcScozxCUjIgpZyvoTM7xwQRbbyreMkJodi Roberts on Tibetan Bowls http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001VJpDV53jJbitsSV0RHR2iJUeuvX49KK1g-Mkq0AF8QCtzjblfdhl8qPgdgqnsKGOtIjjOQpojwm7Zm-7iciMCAU1_-ZzB5nCEuUb5tmm8iuwtDvw9efEeEAbmsUHO_sZCave Without a Name 325 Kreutzberg Rd Boerne Texas
RE: [Texascavers] Cave Ceremony - Jodi Roberts
I always thought a concert there would be cool, guess I'll never know. There are two concerts as posted in the first message. The second is open to all 3 genders. Saturday September 20th 7PM $25 Equinox Cave Ceremony Paul Hubbert on Vocals and Crystal Bowls Roberts on Tibetan Bowls Without a Name 325 Kreutzberg Rd Boerne Texas - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] REALLY COOL THINGS TO DO BEFORE, DURING AND AFTER THE INTERNATIONAL CONGRESS OF SPELEOLOGY
REALLY COOL THINGS TO DO BEFORE, DURING AND AFTER THE INTERNATIONAL CONGRESS OF SPELEOLOGY Ever wanted to learn how to set up water lines and showers, how to build a portable party hot tub or a foot bridge? Ever wanted to learn how to run audio/visual equipment? Or maybe how to organize an international gathering? This is your opportunity to be backstage, behind the scenes, to be the rock and roll roadie you always wanted to be. contact Jon Cradit mailto:ics09...@yahoo.comics09...@yahoo.com to sign up for these and many other wonderful tasks to keep the ICS running smoothly. We also need folks simply willing to help distribute linens and room keys, help monitor the humble port a cans and trash depots and generally love to be on call for whatever bizarre need may arise. Hurry hurry hurry, limited positions available, operators standing by. Ann Bosted Print Salon Co-ordinator mailto:bos...@earthlink.netbos...@earthlink.net collect the NSS photo stands from the Florida convention store, then deliver to the ICS in Kerrville assemble stands 3 days prior to opening so prints can be hung for judging and for final display build more stands at the ICS, materials provided This job could be handled by one volunteer or divided up among several. The stands can be knocked down to sheets measuring about 4'x8', with 2x2 posts for the legs. They could fit in the back of a large pick-up or go in trailor. --
RE: [Texascavers] hosting an International
Productive Controlled Hysteria -- I see it in our future... thats interesting, I see it in my past and present Nancy - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] trip report fromCamp Eagle
-- CAMP EAGLE CAVE QUEST Friday April 25, 2008: 8 cavers from San Antonio and Austin area converged on Camp Eagle about 20 miles from Rock Springs on the headwaters of the Nueces. The 1400 acre camp has a mile of river frontage with springs, shallow waterfalls and deep swimming and boating stretches and caters to mountain biking, rock climbing and challenge course events. Camp personnel were excited about finding a small cave on the land and rumours of others and issued a Texas wide invitation to cavers to come explore and ridge walk. Rene Shields, Nancy Weaver, Scott and Steve Serur, Barbara Noffsinger and JohnTirums, Kurt Menking and Kitty Swoboda arrived between dusk and late on Friday to set up camp under the live oaks or crash in the spacious dormitories. Over Saturday breakfast, which was provided by the camp, we met our host Matt, the activities director, got maps and hiked out toward the cliffs and the location of the rumoured caves - an entrance big enough to walk into, but covered up with rocks 15 years ago as the ceiling looked unstable. With Red Arrow and Pape Caves are only a mile or so away in a direct line, this seemed promising. We found a few small features and one dig which several of the guys launched into, but Matt needed to leave soon and wanted to show us the known cave, so we headed cross country to a nice drop down entrance into a large collapse room. Kity and Kurt volunteered to survey the named on the spot, Eagle Cave, and the rest of us headed off to find more. Barely 200 yards away, contouring on game trails, Nancy spotted a nice entrance which she and Rene popped into after hooting for the others. Porcupine Cave, named for the enormous resident denned in an upper passage, is likely also a large collapsed chamber. What remains is a 12 x 20 x 4 foot high room with a hands and knees crawl that goes about 75 feet looping around the outer perimeter of the room. This information is thanks to Barbara and Scott who pushed the crawlway. John and Nancy were examining the very fresh, too big for a coon and hopefully too small for a bear scat, when John shined his light into the upper passage and discovered glittering eyes way in the back. As the rest of us exited rapidly, speculation included: a sheep, a rabbit, alive, dead and finally, definitively, a very large porcupine, alive. The cave is also host to one small brown bat who finally got fed up with our presence and fluttered off. Thoroughly invigorated by the find we split into pairs and spent quite a few more hours traipsing over hills and down arroyos. We covered perhaps a third of the camp with no new finds and limped back for hydrotherapy at the spectaular swimming section of the river. A steep set of steps down a cliff leads to gorgeous clear cold water with kayaks to paddle and a challenging plastic 'iceberg' with climbing holds attached. The goal being to swim out to the iceberg, haul oneself to the mid point or the 25 foot top and launch off the smooth side like a walrus or penguin. Then it was time for camp provided pasta dinner and brownies, lots of old tales and possibly tall tales and bed under the live oaks and full moon. Sunday's search did not find any new caves. A few small questionable sinks were found and dug on, and Kurt, Scott, Steve and John dug more on some of the features found Saturday, but nothing they found was very promising. Kitty and Kurt's eagle cave survey was 413' without any horizontal adjustments. The cave was mostly crawling over breakdown, much of which was popcorn covered. A few walking sized rooms were also surveyed. Camp Eagle is a birders paradise: the camp grounds above the river were in constant motion and song while male vermillion flycatchers chased one another, blue herons were seen mating along the river, whip poor wills, wild turkeys and owls called through the night and innumerable sparrows and wrens, woodpeckers, swallows and swifts and unnamed others flitted around us. The camp staff is friendly, knowledgable and hospitable and a return trip is planned for the end of summer camp season. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] boat, shop, hike, wrestle with killer whales and horseback ride
As always, if some of these appeal to you, contact the coordinator directly, or you can get in touch with me for further info - Nancy Weaver Volunteer Co-ordinator ICS nan...@io.com 512.847.7422 Joe Mitchelljoemitch...@satx.rr.com Coordinator for Cultural and Family Trips Hey kids: for those of you who would rather boat, shop, hike, wrestle with killer whales and horseback ride than go to meetings or caves here is the perfect volunteer opportunity. Trip leaders get free admission on the outing they lead. You may sign up for more than one. Projected times leaving and returning to Kerrville next to each trip. Trips with * require the trip leader to drive the van. Monday: 1. San Antonio Riverwalk and Alamo (2 trip leaders needed) 9am-5pm 2. Kayaking on Guadalupe (2)* Not yet established - probably 4-5hrs Tuesday:1. Sea World (1) 9am-6pm 2. Horseback Riding at YO Ranch (1) 9am-2pm Thursday: 1. Shopping in Fredericksburg/Hiking at Enchanted Rock (1) 10am - 5pm this one involves dropping off the shoppers, continuing on the E-rock, then picking the shoppers back up on the way home. 2. YO Ranch Tour (1) 9am-2pm Friday: 1. San Antonio Missions Historical Park (2) 9am-5pm Saturday: 1. Kayaking on Guadalupe (2)* Not yet established - probably 4-5hrs REALLY COOL THINGS TO DO BEFORE, DURING AND AFTER THE INTERNATIONAL CONGRESS OF SPELEOLOGY Ever wanted to learn how to set up water lines and showers, how to build a portable party hot tub or a foot bridge? Ever wanted to learn how to run audio/visual equipment? Or maybe how to organize an international gathering? This is your opportunity to be backstage, behind the scenes, out in front, to be the rock and roll roadie/ cave tour guide (make up your very own speleogeology!) you always wanted to be. We also need folks simply willing to help distribute linens and room keys, help monitor the humble port-a-cans and trash depots and generally love to be on call for whatever bizarre need may arise. Hurry hurry hurry, limited positions available, operators standing by. Jon Cradit Facilities Coordiantor mailto:ics09...@yahoo.comics09...@yahoo.com all sorts of jobs to get the facilities in order, keep them running smoothly and clean up afterwards this qualifies you for the Mother Teresa award Ann Bosted Print Salon Coordinator mailto:bos...@earthlink.netbos...@earthlink.net collect the NSS photo stands from the Florida convention store, then deliver to the ICS in Kerrville assemble stands 3 days prior to opening so prints can be hung for judging and for final display build more stands at the ICS, materials provided This job could be handled by one volunteer or divided up among several. The stands can be knocked down to sheets measuring about 4'x8', with 2x2 posts for the legs. They could fit in the back of a large pick-up or go in a trailor. -- The future enters into us, in order to transform itself in us, long before it happens. -Rainer Maria Rilke
[Texascavers] 2009 International Congress of Speleology
EVERYBODY, SOMEBODY, ANYBODY, and NOBODY Wow - thanks Bill for the perfect intro to my search for volunteers for the upcoming 2009 International Congress of Speleology. I am helping to co-ordinate volunteers for every aspect of the joint NSS Convention and ICS to be held in Kerrville in July of 2009. This is the perfect solution to those of you who find yourselves with way too much time on your hands, lots of good ideas about how to improve caving and no outlet except posts on cavetex. So I challenge anyone who posts more than 2 messages a day to cavetex to write me with your contact data, your interests and your availability pre and during the congress/convention and we will put all that energy to good use. please remember to post to me directly, not the whole list. Nancy Weaver - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] good news on ICS volunteers
Thanks all - within 4 hours of posting the volunteer call, I heard from 6 people. 5 of them are already either chairing committees or running trips, helping with guidebooks etc. 1 was a woman from New Mexico who gave me her contact info for future reference when we know just what volunteer tasks we need help with. Good on ya! Now for the rest of you . . . I'm holding a 'why I dont volunteer' contest. Here are the reasons I can think of and I will happily publish any additional ones you can offer me. 1 They dont really need help. 2Only really talented super cavers volunteer. 3Only suckers volunteer. 4I dont know where I'll be July of 09. 5I've already done my share of volunteer work. 6I'm too busy* 7They are trying to take advantage of me. 8uh I need to surf the web and find out some fascinating trivia from China or Australia. 9I never volunteer, why start now? 10 theres something vaguely weird about the whole thing. 11 I'll, uh, get around to it later. heh heh ( I dont tip either) 12 what is the deal? I wasnt raised to believe in giving anything away, but hey, I'm vaguely curious, what do you gals and guys get out of this anyway? So send your contact info to me off list or your really good reason for not volunteering! and as we know just what tasks we need help with, I'll keep you posted. Nancy * this is a trick answer as obviously if you are reading this, its not true
[Texascavers] seeking RD Milhollin
please contact me off list. thanks Nancy - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] OT mini retreat: yoga, meditation, journaling for women
Upon hearing that I just completed a yoga teacher training course, Jocie Hooper asked me to consider leading a half day women's yoga, meditation and vision quest journaling retreat at my home in Driftwood. She was so enthusiastic that I have decided to schedule one for either a saturday or sunday in March or early April. Jocie has a conflict on the weekend of March 29th and April19 (Sat). So I am considering either the weekend of March 15, 16 or April 5,6 or 12,13. It can be either saturday or sunday, depending on what works best for the most people interested. I am thinking of 4 hours, say 10 - 2, with a light potluck lunch. We could have several hours of yoga practice interspersed with breath work, guided meditation, lunch and some journaling practices. I think a reasonable cost would be $30. If you are interested in being on a one time email notification list, with no commitment to come, please contact me. Feel free to pass this on to any women you know that you think would enjoy it. We'll work out a day best suited for those interested. I feel comfortable with a group of up to 10 women. namaste (from my heart to yours) Nancy - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] attnGrace Borengasser
please contact me off list re ICS volunteering. I've got the wrong email address for you. thanks, -- Nancy Weaver Volunteer Co-ordinator ICS nan...@io.com 512.847.7422 - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] computer progress
so how do you know someone 'didnt' go back with a contemporary computer? hmmm Nance - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] OT-The Border Fence
I echo the observations of other respondents who say that with the billions of dollars that this project is to cost, results could best be achieved or even by putting the money into the mexican economy and creating a livable life for them at home. what a concept. using millions to make life better for people rather than punitively. Nance
RE: [Texascavers] OT-The Border Fence
Boeing gets the money - who does the work? Lyndon Tiu asked: Question: Who are they hiring to build the fence? Didn't you read the article? First paragraph says: Amid a strong warning from Congress, the Homeland Security Department last week conditionally accepted delivery of the first phase of a controversial electronic border fence from contractor Boeing Co., and awarded the company a $64 million contract to build the next phase.
[Texascavers] digging
Yesterday I went digging. A friend came and picked me up and off we went to one of those ubiquitous oversized subdivisions where the city pushes hungrily against former ranch and pasturelands. We walked through the upscale 'backyard' zone, with barking dog and chiminea to the liveoak that marked the border of thicket and brush and whose roots twined down into the same crevice that we were interested in. An easy sloping depression funnels into a massively bedded slot 8 feet long, 3 feet wide and after many dig hours on another day, 4 feet deep. Glorious rich black clayey soil tantalized at the bottom of a crack which clearly gathers a substantial watershed, replenishing the aquifer. We were there to remove the last soil and see what lay beneath. It was a cold hard clear blue day, we were bundled in several layers. Alternately, we squeezed into the narrow slot, crouched on a ledge and digging prying scooping out soil from foot level, then passing a small bucket up to the person on top who went off and emptied it. As the dirt receded, our optimism waxed and waned. We worked companionably for a couple of hours, talking of books and movies, of ideas, of the uselessness of the pot metal gardening tool which immediately curled up, of how nice a pair of loppers would be for the thick tree roots that ultimately penetrated further than we did. Our efforts warmed us up to shirt sleeves and used combinations of muscles rarely called on. Finally we agreed that we had reached the limits of our exploration. Thoroughly satisfied, we trudged our muddy tools back to the truck, drove off to get some food, discuss other possible digs. It was just such a day as this, of pleasant easygoing companionship in the woods many years ago, when we discovered what is now the one of the largest caves in travis county. but that is another story. If you believe there is nothing left of value to find, that is the experience you will have. Nancy
[Texascavers] bats cats and mice
someone mentioned to me a trivial pursuit question regarding what mammal lives in caves? the answer of course is bats . . . which got me to wondering if bats habitually live any further into a cave than the bears, cats etc which use caves as dens. I've personally seen evidence of mice thriving way past the light zone and a climb or two down . . . Nancy - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] bats cats and mice
Lots of nice responses, thanks all. The consensus would appear to be that a great variety of mammals (and others) utilize caves to an equal extent as bats. And that all use the cave as a dwelling rather than a habitat. I'd surmise that the examples found 'way back into the cave' are accidentals and likely unsuccesful experiements based on the bones. Nancy - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] the further adventures of guy noir, subterranean investigator
It was the dregs of December. That time when days are short and rich food and lavish drink become an ordeal rather than a treat. One cold windy grey cabin feverish afternoon I wrestled on layers of stained torn clothes and called - Guy Noir, subterranean investigator. Get me outta here before I shoot the next chocolate santa. Within minutes we were stomping thru the brush in the Hays Travis frontera, crowbar and camera at the ready, hammer and survey trappings in pack. The plan was to map and photog a nifty pit cave we had found and explored in the fall, and to check the several unpromising leads. While Guy sketched the entrance, I tossed loose rocks off to the side. The more I tossed, the more loose ones there were. It kept me warm. Then I slid feet first down a body shaped diagonal tube with a serious vision obscuring bend in the middle, right about the time my legs were dangling in freefall. Some kinetic body memory reminded my flailing feet to connect with the widely separated left and right perches. We both agreed it was easier this time. Though my rock dispersal seemed to remind all the grit and pebbles in the slide about gravity and they came on in too. The first room was just big enough for two people to stand up in - if one of them chose to be impaled by rock blades in the vicinity of the dirt floor dig leads. Once again Guy licked his pencil to record this beauty for posterity and I poked a head. First I poked it along the floor, ruling out one hole that led to a 2-foot diameter cavity. The next one looked more promising - a bit of highly restricted bashing removed the conglomerate obstruction so we could slither into a 7x9 foot dome. Just about as big as the original room. Scritch scritch scritch went the sketcher, so next I poked my head into the big lead - another body sized pit that appeared to go nowhere . . . but in the interest of thoroughness, I lay on the ledge, eased my body forward into the pit headfirst and watched my lamp plunk off my helmet and onto the floor, several feet out of reach. My light fell off, I'm leaning further into the pit, hold my ankles, I hollered and started wriggling forward until most of my body was upside down with a nice reassuring grip on my feet. Still couldnt reach the light so I yelled for the crowbar which was passed over my back til it reached my hand. With that I fished the light off the floor and let out a shriek, which fortunately caused the restraining grip to tighten reflexively rather than let go. Giant Green Frogs are leaping at my face, I screamed. In disbelief and relief because when something in a pit leaps at my face, frog is not my first thought. Of course it was a bit awkward as I was still dangling headfirst arms stuck out front, headlamp swinging from a crowbar and stirring up the frogs who really had no other space to jump except into that inhabited by my face. Guy, who had no idea what was happening, really clamped down and started reeling me backwards and upwards. I continued to gabble about emerald green frogs and insisted that Guy take a peek. He ducked his head into the pit and said No frogs, it doesnt go, with undertones of Why on earth did you think it might, what did you think you were doing. We continued 10 feet or so into the main room and came up to the edge of the next pit, this one a comfortable chimneyable or cable laddery ( take your pick) size: 15 feet deep. By gum, the first descender was leapt at again, this time around the ankles, by a pack of blotchy camo frogs, shades of tan and brown and grey. The second descender once again saw no amphibians, they having hopped back to where ever they hang when no cavers are about. We dutifully measured taped and floated this room as well, squirmed our way up and out into a leaden grey evening, sense of accomplishment (and frogs) putting smiles in our hearts. Even now, in the post new year slump, I get a nice frisson thinking of my gangly green tree frogs, wishing them a prosperous colony. Nancy - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Science, Evolution and Creationism
Brian - good luck and thanks for taking the time to attempt to respond to the scientist fundamentalists. I doubt it will do much (any) good, but who knows and you are young and energetic. I'm fairly sure that polarity is not the answer and that evolution and god exist quite comfortably in a yin/yang symbiosis. As I recall the scientific method rests on the basis of 'question everything' - that is a difficult concept for young psyches. And metaphor is a difficult concept for middle aged psyches. Metaphor explains why every human culture that has ever existed has come up with a creationist story - and in their way they are all the same story: there is a great mystery concerning life and this is the story that is apt to our time and geography to describe that. Why we fight so bitterly over either/or as opposed to having a good laugh over both - gives me a good laugh. respectfully to all nancy - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Lousie; heres my answer to your question
I think I finally understand. Plastic bags and global warming are off topic, Describing why they are off topic is on topic. If I disagree with you it is off topic. If I agree with you, it is on topic. If you agree with me, it is really really on topic. And poking fun at inconsistencies is really really really off topic. And as ever Do as I say, not as I do, is the Golden Rule thanks all. Nancy
