[tw] Re: NoteSelf mobile app ( well, kind of)

[Danielo Rodríguez]

El viernes, 27 de enero de 2017, 13:50:31 (UTC+1), wimm escribió:
>
> Danielo,
>
> Congrats, very nice concept, chapeaux!
>

Thank you very much wimm !! Glad you are liking it.
 

>
> I made a little modification to the transclude tiddler to view the *source 
> *instead of the wikified version of the revisions.
>

Cool! The way it is now is for making it easier for regular users. Bud I'm 
glad that you figured out how to make it fit your needs. If you add any UI 
to switch between both types of revisions don't hesitate to let me know 
about it.

Regards

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[tw] Re: NoteSelf mobile app ( well, kind of)

[wimm]

Danielo,

Congrats, very nice concept, chapeaux!

I made a little modification to the transclude tiddler to view the *source 
*instead 
of the wikified version of the revisions.

$:/plugins/danielo515/tiddlypouch/ui/revisions/transclude-template


<$list filter="[is[current]!field:title]">
<$tiddler tiddler=<>>
**
* <$view 
field="text"/>*




regards
Wimm

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[tw] Re: NoteSelf mobile app ( well, kind of)

[Adam Houston]

Just an update: I loaded cardo.wiki into the quick launch(mobile) version 
of NoteSelf last week and it seems to work pretty well.  I have always 
loved how much functionality you can get out of the TW framework by just 
plugging things together from different sources :)

Thank you for your efforts on putting this together.  A year or two ago I 
had thought that the various GTD TWclassic packages I was either using or 
experimenting with could be so much improved by something with a syncable 
pouchdb/couchdb back-end.  I had experimented with loading a few things 
into tiddlyspace and could see the promise.  With TW5 being designed with 
the concept of tiddlers coming from some data source and the workable 
pouchdb plugin you have put together I can see a number of very useful and 
powerful solutions be assembled in a more simplified manner.

Adam

On Friday, January 20, 2017 at 6:37:43 AM UTC-8, Danielo Rodríguez wrote:
>
> Dear Adam Houston,
>
> I didn't tried the mentioned plugins,but you should be able to install and 
> use them without problems on the online version of noteself.
> I am collecting a list of plugins to include in the official plugin 
> library for noteself. The ones you mention are good ones ,and I will try to 
> add them if the author's agree.
>
> In any case,the regular way of installing plugins should work.
>
> Regards 
>
>

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[tw] Re: NoteSelf mobile app ( well, kind of)

[Danielo Rodríguez]

Dear Adam Houston,

I didn't tried the mentioned plugins,but you should be able to install and use 
them without problems on the online version of noteself.
I am collecting a list of plugins to include in the official plugin library for 
noteself. The ones you mention are good ones ,and I will try to add them if the 
author's agree.

In any case,the regular way of installing plugins should work.

Regards 

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[tw] Re: NoteSelf mobile app ( well, kind of)

[dodoo]

The iOS version is 10.2. This is the only apple product I can access now. I 
will try on other ipad devices next week.

在 2017年1月16日星期一 UTC+8下午11:34:15，Danielo Rodríguez写道：
>
>
>
> El sábado, 14 de enero de 2017, 18:14:53 (UTC+1), dodoo escribió:
>>
>> I like noteself very much. Now I can sync tiddlers between my PC and 
>> Andriod phone. 
>>
>> The only thing left unsolved is I still cannot access 
>> https://noteself.github.io/online on my ipad. I have tried several 
>> browsers: safri, chrome, and firefox. All of them kept loading and showed 
>> nothing.
>>
>
> Earlier versions of NoteSelf had that same problem on some user's 
> iphone's. What version of IOS do you  have? Have you tried on any other IOS 
> device? For example an iphone?
>
> Regards  
>

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[tw] Re: NoteSelf mobile app ( well, kind of)

[Adam Houston]

Is it possible to load the gsd5 (or your forked copy 
https://github.com/danielo515/gsd5 ) into the NoteSelf Online edition?  I 
have been interested in a gsd/dgsd/GTD type tiddlywiki that could sync 
individual tiddlers vs uploading the entire wiki as well as run on a mobile 
device.

On Thursday, December 29, 2016 at 1:15:20 PM UTC-8, Danielo Rodríguez wrote:
>
> On their continuous effort to deliver cutting edge features to you, the 
> NoteSelf team (formerly known as just me :D) is delighted to announce that 
> *NoteSelf online 
> edition* is now an offline-first experience.
>
> This means that you will be able to use the online edition *even if you 
> are offline*, isn't that mind-blowing ? 
>
>
> Wait, there is more! 
>
>
> Being an offline-first application allows you to use NoteSelf *like* a 
> native mobile app. This mean that you can have it on your *app launcher 
> with it's own icon*, that it will appear on your list of opened/recent 
> apps and some other features restricted to native applications.
>
> Hey, hey, hey, I want this! Fine, this is how:
>
>1. navigate to noteself.github.io/online with a *compatible browser*
>2. open your browsers options and select "add to home screen" (text 
>may vary depending on language and browser version)
>3. you will see something similar to the below image (sorry it is on 
>spanish)
>
>
> 
>
>   4. NoteSelf can now live along with the test of your apps! (pic 
> below)
>
>
> 
>
>   5. it even has a beautiful (depending on your likings) splash screen!
>
>
> 
>
> The supported browsers for the native app experience are chrome and Opera 
> so far, Firefox is on the way. The offline capabilities should work on a 
> wider range of of browsers.
>
>
> This have several advantages over the offline version:
>
>- Allways up to date. Don't worry anymore about updating, the online 
>version is allways the latest version!
>- Direct access from your launcher with a recognizable icon
>- Easier to use: because we rely on web standards the user experience 
>is delightful. For some reason mobile browser vendors doesn't like opening 
>local html files and opening them can become a tedious task. Sometimes its 
>is just not possible.
>
>
> Hope you enjoy this new feature as much as I do , at the end I'm the main 
> user of NoteSelf :)
>

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[tw] Re: NoteSelf mobile app ( well, kind of)

[Danielo Rodríguez]

El viernes, 13 de enero de 2017, 23:16:37 (UTC+1), oleghbond escribió:
>
> Dear Danielo,
>
> so far so good - I succeeded establishing sync with cloudant DB.
>

Glad to hear that!

 

>
> Another issue - how to embed your plugin into Node.js version of TW5? The 
> reason is that I need version control (as in your project 
> https://github.com/danielo515/TW5-auto-publish2gh-pages). For this 
> Node.js is much more convenient.
>

What kind of version control and why do you think that node is more 
suitable for it? 
The problem of your requirement is the nature of tiddlywiki. Tiddlywiki is 
not able to use two sync adapters. So if you have an adapter that syncs to 
a database, like the one that is being used in NoteSelf you can not 
synchronize to the filesystem. Such requirement will require both a custom 
client plugin and a special version of a server plugin. Maybe in a future I 
could provide such configuration, but at the moment I don't have time to 
implement it properly.

Regards

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[tw] Re: NoteSelf mobile app ( well, kind of)

[Danielo Rodríguez]

El sábado, 14 de enero de 2017, 18:14:53 (UTC+1), dodoo escribió:
>
> I like noteself very much. Now I can sync tiddlers between my PC and 
> Andriod phone. 
>
> The only thing left unsolved is I still cannot access 
> https://noteself.github.io/online on my ipad. I have tried several 
> browsers: safri, chrome, and firefox. All of them kept loading and showed 
> nothing.
>

Earlier versions of NoteSelf had that same problem on some user's iphone's. 
What version of IOS do you  have? Have you tried on any other IOS device? 
For example an iphone?

Regards  

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[tw] Re: NoteSelf mobile app ( well, kind of)

[dodoo]

I like noteself very much. Now I can sync tiddlers between my PC and 
Andriod phone. 

The only thing left unsolved is I still cannot access 
https://noteself.github.io/online on my ipad. I have tried several 
browsers: safri, chrome, and firefox. All of them kept loading and showed 
nothing.

在 2016年12月30日星期五 UTC+8上午5:15:20，Danielo Rodríguez写道：
>
> On their continuous effort to deliver cutting edge features to you, the 
> NoteSelf team (formerly known as just me :D) is delighted to announce that 
> *NoteSelf online 
> edition* is now an offline-first experience.
>
> This means that you will be able to use the online edition *even if you 
> are offline*, isn't that mind-blowing ? 
>
>
> Wait, there is more! 
>
>
> Being an offline-first application allows you to use NoteSelf *like* a 
> native mobile app. This mean that you can have it on your *app launcher 
> with it's own icon*, that it will appear on your list of opened/recent 
> apps and some other features restricted to native applications.
>
> Hey, hey, hey, I want this! Fine, this is how:
>
>1. navigate to noteself.github.io/online with a *compatible browser*
>2. open your browsers options and select "add to home screen" (text 
>may vary depending on language and browser version)
>3. you will see something similar to the below image (sorry it is on 
>spanish)
>
>
> 
>
>   4. NoteSelf can now live along with the test of your apps! (pic 
> below)
>
>
> 
>
>   5. it even has a beautiful (depending on your likings) splash screen!
>
>
> 
>
> The supported browsers for the native app experience are chrome and Opera 
> so far, Firefox is on the way. The offline capabilities should work on a 
> wider range of of browsers.
>
>
> This have several advantages over the offline version:
>
>- Allways up to date. Don't worry anymore about updating, the online 
>version is allways the latest version!
>- Direct access from your launcher with a recognizable icon
>- Easier to use: because we rely on web standards the user experience 
>is delightful. For some reason mobile browser vendors doesn't like opening 
>local html files and opening them can become a tedious task. Sometimes its 
>is just not possible.
>
>
> Hope you enjoy this new feature as much as I do , at the end I'm the main 
> user of NoteSelf :)
>

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[tw] Re: NoteSelf mobile app ( well, kind of)

[oleghbond]

Dear Danielo,

so far so good - I succeeded establishing sync with cloudant DB.

Another issue - how to embed your plugin into Node.js version of TW5? The 
reason is that I need version control (as in your project 
https://github.com/danielo515/TW5-auto-publish2gh-pages). For this Node.js 
is much more convenient.


пʼятниця, 13 січня 2017 р. 19:30:00 UTC+2 користувач oleghbond написав:
>
> Dear Danielo, 
>
> thanks for the good job done. Looks quite promising.
>
> Could you clarify a couple of issues:
>
>- Would it be possible to apply your approach for access of a group of 
>users to a single database?
>- Could individual authentification for a group of users be realized 
>in your approach?
>
> Olegh
>
> четвер, 29 грудня 2016 р. 23:15:20 UTC+2 користувач Danielo Rodríguez 
> написав:
>>
>> On their continuous effort to deliver cutting edge features to you, the 
>> NoteSelf team (formerly known as just me :D) is delighted to announce that 
>> *NoteSelf online 
>> edition* is now an offline-first experience.
>>
>> This means that you will be able to use the online edition *even if you 
>> are offline*, isn't that mind-blowing ? 
>>
>>
>> Wait, there is more! 
>>
>>
>> Being an offline-first application allows you to use NoteSelf *like* a 
>> native mobile app. This mean that you can have it on your *app launcher 
>> with it's own icon*, that it will appear on your list of opened/recent 
>> apps and some other features restricted to native applications.
>>
>> Hey, hey, hey, I want this! Fine, this is how:
>>
>>1. navigate to noteself.github.io/online with a *compatible browser*
>>2. open your browsers options and select "add to home screen" (text 
>>may vary depending on language and browser version)
>>3. you will see something similar to the below image (sorry it is on 
>>spanish)
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>   4. NoteSelf can now live along with the test of your apps! (pic 
>> below)
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>   5. it even has a beautiful (depending on your likings) splash 
>> screen!
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> The supported browsers for the native app experience are chrome and Opera 
>> so far, Firefox is on the way. The offline capabilities should work on a 
>> wider range of of browsers.
>>
>>
>> This have several advantages over the offline version:
>>
>>- Allways up to date. Don't worry anymore about updating, the online 
>>version is allways the latest version!
>>- Direct access from your launcher with a recognizable icon
>>- Easier to use: because we rely on web standards the user experience 
>>is delightful. For some reason mobile browser vendors doesn't like 
>> opening 
>>local html files and opening them can become a tedious task. Sometimes 
>> its 
>>is just not possible.
>>
>>
>> Hope you enjoy this new feature as much as I do , at the end I'm the main 
>> user of NoteSelf :)
>>
>

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[tw] Re: NoteSelf mobile app ( well, kind of)

[oleghbond]

Dear Danielo, 

thanks for the good job done. Looks quite promising.

Could you clarify a couple of issues:

   - Would it be possible to apply your approach for access of a group of 
   users to a single database?
   - Could individual authentification for a group of users be realized in 
   your approach?
   
Olegh

четвер, 29 грудня 2016 р. 23:15:20 UTC+2 користувач Danielo Rodríguez 
написав:
>
> On their continuous effort to deliver cutting edge features to you, the 
> NoteSelf team (formerly known as just me :D) is delighted to announce that 
> *NoteSelf online 
> edition* is now an offline-first experience.
>
> This means that you will be able to use the online edition *even if you 
> are offline*, isn't that mind-blowing ? 
>
>
> Wait, there is more! 
>
>
> Being an offline-first application allows you to use NoteSelf *like* a 
> native mobile app. This mean that you can have it on your *app launcher 
> with it's own icon*, that it will appear on your list of opened/recent 
> apps and some other features restricted to native applications.
>
> Hey, hey, hey, I want this! Fine, this is how:
>
>1. navigate to noteself.github.io/online with a *compatible browser*
>2. open your browsers options and select "add to home screen" (text 
>may vary depending on language and browser version)
>3. you will see something similar to the below image (sorry it is on 
>spanish)
>
>
> 
>
>   4. NoteSelf can now live along with the test of your apps! (pic 
> below)
>
>
> 
>
>   5. it even has a beautiful (depending on your likings) splash screen!
>
>
> 
>
> The supported browsers for the native app experience are chrome and Opera 
> so far, Firefox is on the way. The offline capabilities should work on a 
> wider range of of browsers.
>
>
> This have several advantages over the offline version:
>
>- Allways up to date. Don't worry anymore about updating, the online 
>version is allways the latest version!
>- Direct access from your launcher with a recognizable icon
>- Easier to use: because we rely on web standards the user experience 
>is delightful. For some reason mobile browser vendors doesn't like opening 
>local html files and opening them can become a tedious task. Sometimes its 
>is just not possible.
>
>
> Hope you enjoy this new feature as much as I do , at the end I'm the main 
> user of NoteSelf :)
>

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[tw] Re: NoteSelf mobile app ( well, kind of)

[Danielo Rodríguez]

El viernes, 6 de enero de 2017, 10:46:30 (UTC+1), Tobias Beer escribió:
>
> Hi Danielo,
>
> It's a very interesting piece of TiddlyWiki sync technology.
>
>
Hello Tobias, I'm happy to see your observations around here again :-D

 

> Some questions / remarks:
>
>1. I think it is not necessarily clear to everyone, that they can just 
>take your published version
>download it and put it somewhere else and it would still do the thing
>   - in other words, that there is no dependency to 
>   noteself.github.io/online whatsoever
>
> I think that is more or less clear. At least for me and Greg :-P  Have you 
read the whole index page at NoteSelf.github.io ? I guess the answer is 
yes, but just to be sure.
 

>
>- so, there are no passwords stored "there" ...it's all in the 
>  browsers cache or localStorage
>  - perhaps add to the FAQ "Where is my password stored?"
>   
> Is not even localStorage or browser cache, it's a cookie, managed by the 
browser which is not accesible from any JS code. But you are right about 
the lack of FAQ about that.
 

>
>- your github page is simply just a starting point you could even use 
>   productively
>   - this is admittedly a bit confusing
>   
> Sorry, I don't totally understand what do you mean with that. With github 
page you mean the repository or the page at noteself.github.io?
 

>
>- in other words, a user can ad-hoc hook their couchDB,
>  pull the tiddlers into your site and work with it
>   
> Yes, totally right, and absolutely correct. 

>
>- this is where it differs from TiddlySpot... you could simply push 
>  any tiddlywiki up there,
>  but at some point you want to start working off of that url
>   
> Yes, it differs from  TiddlySpot. They are two different services (the 
word service is the key). Sorry, what do you meant that you want to start 
working off of that url? And, what are the advantages (once you explain me 
the concept )?

>
>- with Noteself, you can pull your couchDB stored tiddles into any 
>  noteself anywhere,
>  one by one, revisions and all
>   
> Well, to be 100% honest revisions are only available on tiddlers created 
locally, not the ones synced from the server. I could make that happen, but 
it is not that way at the moment. 
 

>
>- however, what if I wanted my own flavours (themes, plugins, etc...)?
>  - or even an entirely pre-baked version that looks totally 
> different?
>  - perhaps you can make it slightly more clear, that noteself is 
>   but an application layer
>   that can pull and push a batch of tiddlers, not an entire wiki
>
> That's the point where I want to clarify things. NoteSelf it is not an 
application layer, it is an application itself and it is planned to be a 
future in a near future. This means that you will able to navigate to 
noteself.github.io (or any other domain if I migrate it) create an account 
and start using the service on your browser, mobile and have sync between 
them without the need to know anything about tiddlywiki. Of course at the 
current stage the main target are already existing tiddlywiki users, but I 
want to make NoteSelf a friendly service to the masses.
There is also a misconception about what NoteSelf is/does. As I said, it is 
not a plugin, it is (at the moment) a Tiddlywiki edition, with a naive 
point of view and clear objectives. If you want to create your own edition, 
bake your own flavours, themes, plugins... you don't have to look at 
NoteSelf, you have to go one step back and look at TiddlyPouch. TiddlyPouch 
is the plugin that powers NoteSelf and brings pouchdb, sync capabilities 
and a UI to manage all that.
Currently I'm focused on making NoteSelf a better product and build a 
service around it, and I don't have time to write clear documentation about 
how to use TiddlyPouch on your own eddition products. Mainly because not 
much people has demonstrated any interest on it. Maybe in the future, If I 
have a couple of collaborators on the TiddlyPouch side and an already 
running product built on top of NoteSelf I could help other developers use 
my base plugin to build their own applications/products.

>
>- however, that brings me to a question
>   1. What if I downloaded your version, "made it mine", different 
>styles, plugins, etc...
>upload my "modified noteself", incl. its system tiddlers somewhere else
>and then started using it... which tiddlers would get synced to 
>couchDB and why?
>
> For the most of that question, take a look at the answer above. About the 
latest... it should sync the exact same tiddlers as it would do in any 
other edition/version, which means all the user's tiddlers.
 

>
>1. Somewhat in a similar line of thought, how does one upgrade (a) 
>noteself?
>
> If you use the online edition you don't have to worry about that. In any 
case, I think 

[tw] Re: NoteSelf mobile app ( well, kind of)

[Danielo Rodríguez]

>
> t is clearer on the home page as mentioned.  However, I am still confused 
> about the references to the online/offline version vs. the offline 
> capabilities - which I think both the offline and online "version" share. 
>  Right?  When you describe the offline or online versions you are talking 
> about whether you download a local copy of the html file to your local file 
> versus running it from github.  In once sense you are describing the real 
> benefits of offline capabilities, but then describing advantages of the 
> online version.  It is confusing.
> If I am correct, you may want go a little further to bring clarity to when 
> you are talking about how/where the NoteSelf application is delivered 
> vs.how it can be used when offline.


I totally agree. I think for the moment I will remove all the references to 
downloaded version and focus on the offline capabilities.  

If I were to simply navigate to  noteself.github.io/online and start using 
> NoteSelf, confuring my couchDB, how would it be available when I am 
> offline?  How would I take advantage of the always up-to-date feature (also 
> subject to the lack of control disadvantage of automatic updates) if I am 
> offline/disconnected?  How would it even run?  Is this a function of the 
> add to home screen action?  Does mobile browsers cache the html/application 
> and update when connection established again?


I think you have already answered your question above with the quotation 
below:


> It is mainly the confusion around the capability/ability to work offline 
> and the offline/online application location in terms of clarity.  However, 
> in terms of benefits/capabilities that are attractive to me, I would 
> highlight the ability to have NoteSelf automatically synchronize data 
> stored locally in the internal pouchDB database (whether online or offline) 
> with an http accessible couchDB database (when accessible) that can be 
> hosted in a variety of manners including cloud, and in turn with numerous 
> NoteSelf instances sharing the same couchDB database. 



If above is accurate - which i think it is.  Too many words though.  Could 
> be turned into a bullet list.   

 
Again, I agree.

I am now getting this subject to above.  I am interested in this, and just 
> want to understand how that method works offline.  


It is pretty simple: you open the page, then a service worker (which is a 
stunning technology) is installed. The service worker allows the web-page 
to be displayed when you are offline, while PouchDB allows the data to be 
saved while you are offline. Combining those two you have a fully offline 
application.
 

> It also has me feeling like I am configuring your hosted application with 
> my couchDB connection string and database name.  I'm not overly concerned, 
> but it doesn't feel right without understanding. 


It is funny how the human mind works. Would it be different if I ask you to 
create a NoteSelf account and I ask you to log-in in my application? I bet 
that will feel better :D In any case, you are not saving anything into my 
application. The application runs on github, which has no backend and 
therefore it has any ability to save any of your data. You can understand 
it as accessing your database through a different UI.

I actually don't understand where my password is being stored and using the 
> online version I would be suspect of it being visible to you - not that I 
> am worried about you. :-) 


Your password is never stored. The browser handles the cookie like it does 
for the rest of web pages you use.


NoteSelf does appear to have version control, no?


Yes, it has. But the UI is not very polished yet. 

If I configure users in my couchDB instance and connect different NoteSelf 
> instances to the same couchDB but using different users, might that allow 
> multi-user? 

Yes that is absolutely possible.
 

>  Didn't I even see somewhere to indicate the user to tag tiddlers with?  I 
> thought I did, but querying the couchDB test tiddlers didn't appear to have 
> any such data element available.


At first I thought I could setup the author to the user that is logged in. 
But, what if the user never logs in? At first I was saving the username as 
part of the database configuration, but after a while I started considering 
that a security flaw, and I stopped doing it. What do you think if after 
you have logged in I setup the author to your username? I never asked 
anyone and I want to have an opinion.

 I didn't have to enter any payment information.  At some point do I have 
> to pay for cloudant.com services?


I have been using it for more than a year now and I never payed a penny. 

Thank you for your comments and for trying NoteSelf so much!
 

>

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[tw] Re: NoteSelf mobile app ( well, kind of)

[Greg Hodgins]

I am not certain how I found myself creating a Bluemix account to create my 
Cloudant database, but I just created a new account directly navigating to 
cloudant.com.  Now I have a nice username.cloudant.com service and a 
password that make perfect sense in terms of association with my cloudant 
service.  My initial service creation looked more like the one in your 
video.

I imagine the Bluemix route, which provides access to other IBM cloud 
services, provides some additional flexibility and/or capability that I am 
not interested in currently.  With that flexibility comes complexity I 
don't want to chase.  I could create a virtual host for my cloudant service 
in Bluemix for an simpler, like username, hostname for my service versus 
the GUID initially assigned.  I'm less sure how I would configure the 
username and password specific to that service or database.

Moral of the story, if you want to keep it simple as the video depicts and 
Danielo suggested, just go to cloudant.com and create the service.

I didn't read the terms of service (yes I checked the button).  I didn't 
have to enter any payment information.  At some point do I have to pay for 
cloudant.com services?

On Thursday, December 29, 2016 at 4:15:20 PM UTC-5, Danielo Rodríguez wrote:
>
> On their continuous effort to deliver cutting edge features to you, the 
> NoteSelf team (formerly known as just me :D) is delighted to announce that 
> *NoteSelf online 
> edition* is now an offline-first experience.
>
> This means that you will be able to use the online edition *even if you 
> are offline*, isn't that mind-blowing ? 
>
>
> Wait, there is more! 
>
>
> Being an offline-first application allows you to use NoteSelf *like* a 
> native mobile app. This mean that you can have it on your *app launcher 
> with it's own icon*, that it will appear on your list of opened/recent 
> apps and some other features restricted to native applications.
>
> Hey, hey, hey, I want this! Fine, this is how:
>
>1. navigate to noteself.github.io/online with a *compatible browser*
>2. open your browsers options and select "add to home screen" (text 
>may vary depending on language and browser version)
>3. you will see something similar to the below image (sorry it is on 
>spanish)
>
>
> 
>
>   4. NoteSelf can now live along with the test of your apps! (pic 
> below)
>
>
> 
>
>   5. it even has a beautiful (depending on your likings) splash screen!
>
>
> 
>
> The supported browsers for the native app experience are chrome and Opera 
> so far, Firefox is on the way. The offline capabilities should work on a 
> wider range of of browsers.
>
>
> This have several advantages over the offline version:
>
>- Allways up to date. Don't worry anymore about updating, the online 
>version is allways the latest version!
>- Direct access from your launcher with a recognizable icon
>- Easier to use: because we rely on web standards the user experience 
>is delightful. For some reason mobile browser vendors doesn't like opening 
>local html files and opening them can become a tedious task. Sometimes its 
>is just not possible.
>
>
> Hope you enjoy this new feature as much as I do , at the end I'm the main 
> user of NoteSelf :)
>

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[tw] Re: NoteSelf mobile app ( well, kind of)

[Danielo Rodríguez]

Just a fast answer, It's late and I'm tired
 

> and if I do use the "online version" where is my couchDB configuration 
> stored?  Where is my password stored? At github? 
>
> I don't even know where it is stored now with my local version BTW.  I'm 
> thinking a cookie
>

Your passwor IS NEVER STORED, not in the online version, nor on the offline 
version, in any version. I consider that a security risk.
Like most of the modern web services (believe me, hundred of services that 
you use and trust) authentication is managed through cookies.

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[tw] Re: NoteSelf mobile app ( well, kind of)

[Greg Hodgins]

Hi Tobias.  One thought below.

On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 4:46:30 AM UTC-5, Tobias Beer wrote:
>
> Hi Danielo,
>
> It's a very interesting piece of TiddlyWiki sync technology.
>
> Some questions / remarks:
>
>1. I think it is not necessarily clear to everyone, that they can just 
>take your published version
>download it and put it somewhere else and it would still do the thing
>
> Personally, this was clear to me.  That is exactly what I did.  What I am 
less clear on is how I could use the noteself.github.io "online version" to 
benefit from automatic updates. How can I use the "online version" without 
a network connection (offline) and if I do use the "online version" where 
is my couchDB configuration stored?  Where is my password stored? At 
github? 

I don't even know where it is stored now with my local version BTW.  I'm 
thinking a cookie.

>
>- in other words, that there is no dependency to 
>   noteself.github.io/online whatsoever
>  - so, there are no passwords stored "there" ...it's all in the 
>  browsers cache or localStorage
>  - perhaps add to the FAQ "Where is my password stored?"
>   - your github page is simply just a starting point you could even 
>   use productively
>   - this is admittedly a bit confusing
>  - in other words, a user can ad-hoc hook their couchDB,
>  pull the tiddlers into your site and work with it
>  - this is where it differs from TiddlySpot... you could simply 
>  push any tiddlywiki up there,
>  but at some point you want to start working off of that url
>  - with Noteself, you can pull your couchDB stored tiddles into 
>  any noteself anywhere,
>  one by one, revisions and all
>  - however, what if I wanted my own flavours (themes, plugins, 
>  etc...)?
>  - or even an entirely pre-baked version that looks totally 
> different?
>  - perhaps you can make it slightly more clear, that noteself is 
>   but an application layer
>   that can pull and push a batch of tiddlers, not an entire wiki
>  - however, that brings me to a question
>   1. What if I downloaded your version, "made it mine", different 
>styles, plugins, etc...
>upload my "modified noteself", incl. its system tiddlers somewhere else
>and then started using it... which tiddlers would get synced to 
>couchDB and why?
>2. Somewhat in a similar line of thought, how does one upgrade (a) 
>noteself?
>3. What prevents you from publishing Noteself as a syncer plugin?
>   - I think that would make its nature much clearer,
>   as but one, albeit exemplary, of a potentially big number of sync 
>   modules
>4. What I would find highly interesting was the capability
>to sync multiple noteself "tiddler collections" in the same wiki
>   - some from that couchDB and / or table, some from another (e.g. a 
>   template)
>   - besides versions, this would clearly be a capability that 
>   TiddlySpot cannot deliver
>5. as for revisions, there are two things
>   1. the icon could more gracefully look like a core thing, right now 
>   I find it a bit imposing
>   2. the actual revision handling feels very confusing to me
>  - tbh., I have no clue how to get back to an earlier revision
>  - what's most confusing though, I don't see a date for revisions 
>  anywhere, just cryptic numbers...
>  that's not very usefull to figuring out a past version to revert 
>  to
>  - What is the meaning of those tabs?
>   
> Best wishes,
>
> Tobias.
>

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[tw] Re: NoteSelf mobile app ( well, kind of)

[Tobias Beer]

Hi Danielo,

It's a very interesting piece of TiddlyWiki sync technology.

Some questions / remarks:

   1. I think it is not necessarily clear to everyone, that they can just 
   take your published version
   download it and put it somewhere else and it would still do the thing
  - in other words, that there is no dependency to 
  noteself.github.io/online whatsoever
 - so, there are no passwords stored "there" ...it's all in the 
 browsers cache or localStorage
 - perhaps add to the FAQ "Where is my password stored?"
  - your github page is simply just a starting point you could even use 
  productively
  - this is admittedly a bit confusing
 - in other words, a user can ad-hoc hook their couchDB,
 pull the tiddlers into your site and work with it
 - this is where it differs from TiddlySpot... you could simply 
 push any tiddlywiki up there,
 but at some point you want to start working off of that url
 - with Noteself, you can pull your couchDB stored tiddles into any 
 noteself anywhere,
 one by one, revisions and all
 - however, what if I wanted my own flavours (themes, plugins, 
 etc...)?
 - or even an entirely pre-baked version that looks totally 
different?
 - perhaps you can make it slightly more clear, that noteself is 
  but an application layer
  that can pull and push a batch of tiddlers, not an entire wiki
 - however, that brings me to a question
  2. What if I downloaded your version, "made it mine", different 
   styles, plugins, etc...
   upload my "modified noteself", incl. its system tiddlers somewhere else
   and then started using it... which tiddlers would get synced to couchDB 
   and why?
   3. Somewhat in a similar line of thought, how does one upgrade (a) 
   noteself?
   4. What prevents you from publishing Noteself as a syncer plugin?
  - I think that would make its nature much clearer,
  as but one, albeit exemplary, of a potentially big number of sync 
  modules
   5. What I would find highly interesting was the capability
   to sync multiple noteself "tiddler collections" in the same wiki
  - some from that couchDB and / or table, some from another (e.g. a 
  template)
  - besides versions, this would clearly be a capability that 
  TiddlySpot cannot deliver
   6. as for revisions, there are two things
  1. the icon could more gracefully look like a core thing, right now I 
  find it a bit imposing
  2. the actual revision handling feels very confusing to me
 - tbh., I have no clue how to get back to an earlier revision
 - what's most confusing though, I don't see a date for revisions 
 anywhere, just cryptic numbers...
 that's not very usefull to figuring out a past version to revert to
 - What is the meaning of those tabs?
  
Best wishes,

Tobias.

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[tw] Re: NoteSelf mobile app ( well, kind of)

[Greg Hodgins]

On Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 5:33:41 AM UTC-5, Danielo Rodríguez wrote:
>
>
>> Thanks Daniel.  I saw your initial NoteSelf press release :-) the other 
>> night. 
>>
>
> Hello Greg. Do you mean this thread ? 
>

In retrospect, yes I do. 

>  
>
>>  I tried it mobile and wasn't truly understanding everything you were 
>> trying to achieve.  
>>
>
> Do you mean this notification or the whole Noteself page?
>

This announcement.  Per below I thought it was all about the native app 
experience.  At least that is what I read late one night. 

>
>  Initially I thought it was all about the launch icon on the device making 
>> more more like a native app.  Cool, but wasn't enough to keep me that 
>> interested.
>
>  
> Actually is more than just an icon. Is the ability to use NoteSelf which 
> is a web application even without any internet connection. Try to put your 
> phone on airplane mode and open NoteSelf (no matter if you do from the 
> browser or the desktop shortcut), it should work.
>

Yep.  I get it now.  Offline first. Something I want. 

>
> Then I read a little more in some other posts here and see you are 
>> interested in solving the mobile user experience.  Again, not a huge 
>> concern to me currently BUT something I am definitely interested in.
>>
>
> If you have to look for other posts to fully understand what I'm trying to 
> achieve, then I'm doing something wrong in my announcements. This 
> particular thread is focused on mobile experience, but the main NoteSelf 
> page should be clear about what is the objective of the tool.
>  
>

It is clearer on the home page as mentioned.  However, I am still confused 
about the references to the online/offline version vs. the offline 
capabilities - which I think both the offline and online "version" share. 
 Right?  When you describe the offline or online versions you are talking 
about whether you download a local copy of the html file to your local file 
versus running it from github.  In once sense you are describing the real 
benefits of offline capabilities, but then describing advantages of the 
online version.  It is confusing.

If I am correct, you may want go a little further to bring clarity to when 
you are talking about how/where the NoteSelf application is delivered 
vs.how it can be used when offline.

Of course as I write this I am doubting this is even what you are stating. 
 Doubting, but not sure. :-)

If I were to simply navigate to  noteself.github.io/online and start using 
NoteSelf, confuring my couchDB, how would it be available when I am 
offline?  How would I take advantage of the always up-to-date feature (also 
subject to the lack of control disadvantage of automatic updates) if I am 
offline/disconnected?  How would it even run?  Is this a function of the 
add to home screen action?  Does mobile browsers cache the html/application 
and update when connection established again?

>
>> This also led to some more research as to what this couchDB reference 
>> was.  Seeing some more posts including Steve had me checking the difference 
>> (and now understanding relationship) between pouchDB and couchDB.  Now I'm 
>> really interested.
>>
>
> Glad you figured it out. It is not obvious, it took me some time at a 
> first glance.
>  
>
Pretty darn cool.  I remember playing with similar technology almost 20 
years ago now.  Cool build in js. 

>
>> Of course much of this is covered here. https://noteself.github.io/. 
>>  Sometimes it's just information overload 
>>
>
> I agree. I am open to any improvement you could suggest.
>  
>
>> - although I think there are some things that could be made clearer off 
>> the top. 
>>
>
> Could you point me to some examples?
>

It is mainly the confusion around the capability/ability to work offline 
and the offline/online application location in terms of clarity.  However, 
in terms of benefits/capabilities that are attractive to me, I would 
highlight the ability to have NoteSelf automatically synchronize data 
stored locally in the internal pouchDB database (whether online or offline) 
with an http accessible couchDB database (when accessible) that can be 
hosted in a variety of manners including cloud, and in turn with numerous 
NoteSelf instances sharing the same couchDB database.

If above is accurate - which i think it is.  Too many words though.  Could 
be turned into a bullet list.   

>  
>
>>
>> Long story short, I get it - I think.  NoteSelf uses a local in browser 
>> NoSQL database called pouchDB that supports 2 way replication with couchDB.
>>
>>  
>  Perfect easy explanation. 
>
> Like Steve I setup a Cloudant couchDB.  Pretty simple.
>>
>
> Glad to hear that it was simple.
>  
>
>>
>> Steve, two things, your couchDB URL is in the URL of your DB admin page. 
>>  It is also visible in Account, Virtual Hosts.It is the name you could 
>> optionally replace with your own host name.  eg: 
>> c4e83ce0-e302-42a2-8d3d-5cd3a8ae59e2-bluemix.cloudant.com.  
>> Obviously I modified 

[tw] Re: NoteSelf mobile app ( well, kind of)

[Danielo Rodríguez]

For all those persons having problems with the cloudant configuration I 
just released an instructional video that starts from scratch:


https://youtu.be/Oc5lNND8dZE

Hope this could reduce the initial friction.
Regards

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[tw] Re: NoteSelf mobile app ( well, kind of)

[Ste Wilson]

The cors thing was the thing. Success. Thanks you. 

Ste

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[tw] Re: NoteSelf mobile app ( well, kind of)

[Danielo Rodríguez]

>
>
> Thanks Daniel.  I saw your initial NoteSelf press release :-) the other 
> night. 
>

Hello Greg. Do you mean this thread ? 
 

>  I tried it mobile and wasn't truly understanding everything you were 
> trying to achieve.  
>

Do you mean this notification or the whole Noteself page?

 Initially I thought it was all about the launch icon on the device making 
> more more like a native app.  Cool, but wasn't enough to keep me that 
> interested.

 
Actually is more than just an icon. Is the ability to use NoteSelf which is 
a web application even without any internet connection. Try to put your 
phone on airplane mode and open NoteSelf (no matter if you do from the 
browser or the desktop shortcut), it should work.

Then I read a little more in some other posts here and see you are 
> interested in solving the mobile user experience.  Again, not a huge 
> concern to me currently BUT something I am definitely interested in.
>

If you have to look for other posts to fully understand what I'm trying to 
achieve, then I'm doing something wrong in my announcements. This 
particular thread is focused on mobile experience, but the main NoteSelf 
page should be clear about what is the objective of the tool.
 

>
> This also led to some more research as to what this couchDB reference was. 
>  Seeing some more posts including Steve had me checking the difference (and 
> now understanding relationship) between pouchDB and couchDB.  Now I'm 
> really interested.
>

Glad you figured it out. It is not obvious, it took me some time at a first 
glance.
 

>
> Of course much of this is covered here. https://noteself.github.io/. 
>  Sometimes it's just information overload 
>

I agree. I am open to any improvement you could suggest.
 

> - although I think there are some things that could be made clearer off 
> the top. 
>

Could you point me to some examples?
 

>
> Long story short, I get it - I think.  NoteSelf uses a local in browser 
> NoSQL database called pouchDB that supports 2 way replication with couchDB.
>
>  
 Perfect easy explanation. 

Like Steve I setup a Cloudant couchDB.  Pretty simple.
>

Glad to hear that it was simple.
 

>
> Steve, two things, your couchDB URL is in the URL of your DB admin page. 
>  It is also visible in Account, Virtual Hosts.It is the name you could 
> optionally replace with your own host name.  eg: 
> c4e83ce0-e302-42a2-8d3d-5cd3a8ae59e2-bluemix.cloudant.com.  
> Obviously I modified above, but hopefully you will recognize that.
>

You don't need such complex url. If you are using cloudant it is as easy as 
https://yourusername.cloudant.com
 

>
> With respect to your error check the CORS tab on the same account screen. 
>  While I don't want to leave all domains (*) as currently selected, I am 
> not sure how to code for a file hosted browser session.  
>

Could you try to set the CORS to https://noteself.github.io/online domain? 
That will restrict CORS to the noteself online version. You are not forced 
to download the html file, I want to enforce that you can just use the 
online version, but if you want to do so, you  have to set the domains to *

 
 

> With those to things I got NoteSelf replicating as advertised.  Very cool.
>

Mmm, it should be an easier process, as I said, I'm going to record a 2-min 
video.
 

>
> I'm certainly wanting to explore the security aspect a little more.  I 
> gather that the GUID URL is one form of security and anyone accessing that 
> URL has read/write access.  I hope you can add a little more security in 
> that you appear to be able to set the permissions on the database and then 
> generate API keys.  I'm not sure how/where you embed this in NoteSelf, 
> assuming you do.
>

I don't understand your concerns clearly. If you use the online version of 
NoteSelf then you are connecting to an https site that communicates to an 
https database. Everything secured by the https protocol. To be able to 
write/read to your database, you need to provide your cloudant credentials, 
which are your username and password.
 

>
> P.S.  Exploring this as an alternative to my current node.js hosted on 
> Google Drive approach that isn't proven sound in any way. 
>

Sorry, what do you mean by "proven sound"?
 

> No version control and not multi-user, that that NoteSelf is either me 
> thinks.
>

Well, NoteSelf does not currently have the required facilities, but it 
should be possible to use it with multiple users.
 

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[tw] Re: NoteSelf mobile app ( well, kind of)

[Danielo Rodríguez]

El miércoles, 4 de enero de 2017, 23:56:55 (UTC+1), Ste Wilson escribió:
>
> Ok... 
> Well here's the non teach user feedback.


Hello Ste, let's do it!
 

> First question.. Do I need to save it to my device first or just use it 
> straight from github because from 'You can start using your notebook right 
> now' suggests I can fill in details on the form in front of me i.e 
> https://noteself.github.io/online/
>

You can start using it directly from https://noteself.github.io/online/, 
there is no need of downloading , so your guessings are right.
 

> 1a. What's a couchdb and where can I get one? (I know from your comments 
> here that cloudant is the place to go)
>

I think I clearle stated on the main page that cloudant.com is the 
recomended place to go. Now I can see that I should make it more clear.
 

> 2. Cloudant is a whole can of worms for a non techie (I think I've set up 
> a db but I'm not sure) . Perhaps a little more hand holding needed.
>

I found it very straightforward when I first use it. Obviously my 
perception differs from the rest of the people.
 

> 3. What is the couchdb url? The couchdb tiddler provides a little more 
> clarity.
>

The URL of your server. In case of clooudat it is 
https://yourusername.cloudant.com
 

> 4. Remote database name. 
>
Is this just the name of the database I think I've created on cloudant or 
> does it need a url?
>

This is just a database name. If it does not exist and you are an admin 
user it will be created automatically. No url, just name.
 

> I've set up a cloudant account and created a db called'noteself'. 
>
> I've filled in the fields. Pressed the button and get; 
>
> Syncer-browser - 22:47:21 4 1 2017
> XMLHttpRequest error code: 0
>
> And that's as far as I've got...
>

Sorry to hear that your experience was not satisfying. I will definetivelly 
record a 2-min video. 
To fix this problem you have to setup CORS on your cloudant account. 
 Luckily it is very easy, please take a look at the following screenshot:



Hope you can fix this problem and give NoteSelf a go

>

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[tw] Re: NoteSelf mobile app ( well, kind of)

[Greg Hodgins]

OK, on the Cloudant service page there is a Service Credentials.  Now I 
recall adding this at the beginning.  I didn't ever copy and paste the 
password/key in the view credentials in the first instance?  Regardless 
from a second machine and my mobile I can login with the service 
credentials and all appears well.  Changes sync across all three.

Still can't say I understand the multi-user aspect, which appears supported 
in some fashion given I can create and login with different credentials, 
but shutting down for the night.

On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 9:37:50 PM UTC-5, Greg Hodgins wrote:
>
> Well, I'm inadvertently exploring the security aspect.  So much for 
> thinking the GUID in the host name was the key to access.  On a second 
> machine I've tried both copying my working noteself.html file and 
> downloading a fresh one and configuring the CouchDB URL and remote database 
> name.  There is an offline button that I click (because I am clearly not 
> syncing) and I am prompted first with a green, what I assume is a Noteself 
> userID and password prompt for the remote database, and then browser pops 
> up with the same.
>
> I'm not sure what user ID to use.  The only password I created to my 
> knowledge was that associated with my cloudant account.
>
> Also the browser challenge comes up twice and on the second appearance 
> disappears on it's own accord while typing in the password.
>
> A little lost.
>
> On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 7:53:05 PM UTC-5, Greg Hodgins wrote:
>>
>> Hi Steve.
>>
>> Thanks Daniel.  I saw your initial NoteSelf press release :-) the other 
>> night.  I tried it mobile and wasn't truly understanding everything you 
>> were trying to achieve.  Initially I thought it was all about the launch 
>> icon on the device making more more like a native app.  Cool, but wasn't 
>> enough to keep me that interested.
>>
>> Then I read a little more in some other posts here and see you are 
>> interested in solving the mobile user experience.  Again, not a huge 
>> concern to me currently BUT something I am definitely interested in.
>>
>> This also led to some more research as to what this couchDB reference 
>> was.  Seeing some more posts including Steve had me checking the difference 
>> (and now understanding relationship) between pouchDB and couchDB.  Now I'm 
>> really interested.
>>
>> Of course much of this is covered here. https://noteself.github.io/. 
>>  Sometimes it's just information overload - although I think there are some 
>> things that could be made clearer off the top.  That said, there are so 
>> many different audiences to cover it is almost impossible.
>>
>> Long story short, I get it - I think.  NoteSelf uses a local in browser 
>> NoSQL database called pouchDB that supports 2 way replication with couchDB.
>>
>> Like Steve I setup a Cloudant couchDB.  Pretty simple.
>>
>> Steve, two things, your couchDB URL is in the URL of your DB admin page. 
>>  It is also visible in Account, Virtual Hosts.It is the name you could 
>> optionally replace with your own host name.  eg: 
>> c4e83ce0-e302-42a2-8d3d-5cd3a8ae59e2-bluemix.cloudant.com.  
>> Obviously I modified above, but hopefully you will recognize that.
>>
>> With respect to your error check the CORS tab on the same account screen. 
>>  While I don't want to leave all domains (*) as currently selected, I am 
>> not sure how to code for a file hosted browser session.  Ultimately even 
>> some kind of local http: host is probably necessary with a host name to 
>> configure restricted CORS from.
>>
>> With those to things I got NoteSelf replicating as advertised.  Very cool.
>>
>> I'm certainly wanting to explore the security aspect a little more.  I 
>> gather that the GUID URL is one form of security and anyone accessing that 
>> URL has read/write access.  I hope you can add a little more security in 
>> that you appear to be able to set the permissions on the database and then 
>> generate API keys.  I'm not sure how/where you embed this in NoteSelf, 
>> assuming you do.
>>
>> Have to run, but will be back.
>>
>> Good luck.
>>
>> P.S.  Exploring this as an alternative to my current node.js hosted on 
>> Google Drive approach that isn't proven sound in any way. No version 
>> control and not multi-user, that that NoteSelf is either me thinks.
>>
>> All the best.
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, December 29, 2016 at 4:15:20 PM UTC-5, Danielo Rodríguez 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On their continuous effort to deliver cutting edge features to you, the 
>>> NoteSelf team (formerly known as just me :D) is delighted to announce that 
>>> *NoteSelf online 
>>> edition* is now an offline-first experience.
>>>
>>> This means that you will be able to use the online edition *even if you 
>>> are offline*, isn't that mind-blowing ? 
>>>
>>>
>>> Wait, there is more! 
>>>
>>>
>>> Being an offline-first application allows you to use NoteSelf *like* a 
>>> native mobile app. This mean that you can have it on your *app launcher 
>>> with 

[tw] Re: NoteSelf mobile app ( well, kind of)

[Greg Hodgins]

Well, I'm inadvertently exploring the security aspect.  So much for 
thinking the GUID in the host name was the key to access.  On a second 
machine I've tried both copying my working noteself.html file and 
downloading a fresh one and configuring the CouchDB URL and remote database 
name.  There is an offline button that I click (because I am clearly not 
syncing) and I am prompted first with a green, what I assume is a Noteself 
userID and password prompt for the remote database, and then browser pops 
up with the same.

I'm not sure what user ID to use.  The only password I created to my 
knowledge was that associated with my cloudant account.

Also the browser challenge comes up twice and on the second appearance 
disappears on it's own accord while typing in the password.

A little lost.

On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 7:53:05 PM UTC-5, Greg Hodgins wrote:
>
> Hi Steve.
>
> Thanks Daniel.  I saw your initial NoteSelf press release :-) the other 
> night.  I tried it mobile and wasn't truly understanding everything you 
> were trying to achieve.  Initially I thought it was all about the launch 
> icon on the device making more more like a native app.  Cool, but wasn't 
> enough to keep me that interested.
>
> Then I read a little more in some other posts here and see you are 
> interested in solving the mobile user experience.  Again, not a huge 
> concern to me currently BUT something I am definitely interested in.
>
> This also led to some more research as to what this couchDB reference was. 
>  Seeing some more posts including Steve had me checking the difference (and 
> now understanding relationship) between pouchDB and couchDB.  Now I'm 
> really interested.
>
> Of course much of this is covered here. https://noteself.github.io/. 
>  Sometimes it's just information overload - although I think there are some 
> things that could be made clearer off the top.  That said, there are so 
> many different audiences to cover it is almost impossible.
>
> Long story short, I get it - I think.  NoteSelf uses a local in browser 
> NoSQL database called pouchDB that supports 2 way replication with couchDB.
>
> Like Steve I setup a Cloudant couchDB.  Pretty simple.
>
> Steve, two things, your couchDB URL is in the URL of your DB admin page. 
>  It is also visible in Account, Virtual Hosts.It is the name you could 
> optionally replace with your own host name.  eg: 
> c4e83ce0-e302-42a2-8d3d-5cd3a8ae59e2-bluemix.cloudant.com.  
> Obviously I modified above, but hopefully you will recognize that.
>
> With respect to your error check the CORS tab on the same account screen. 
>  While I don't want to leave all domains (*) as currently selected, I am 
> not sure how to code for a file hosted browser session.  Ultimately even 
> some kind of local http: host is probably necessary with a host name to 
> configure restricted CORS from.
>
> With those to things I got NoteSelf replicating as advertised.  Very cool.
>
> I'm certainly wanting to explore the security aspect a little more.  I 
> gather that the GUID URL is one form of security and anyone accessing that 
> URL has read/write access.  I hope you can add a little more security in 
> that you appear to be able to set the permissions on the database and then 
> generate API keys.  I'm not sure how/where you embed this in NoteSelf, 
> assuming you do.
>
> Have to run, but will be back.
>
> Good luck.
>
> P.S.  Exploring this as an alternative to my current node.js hosted on 
> Google Drive approach that isn't proven sound in any way. No version 
> control and not multi-user, that that NoteSelf is either me thinks.
>
> All the best.
>
>
> On Thursday, December 29, 2016 at 4:15:20 PM UTC-5, Danielo Rodríguez 
> wrote:
>>
>> On their continuous effort to deliver cutting edge features to you, the 
>> NoteSelf team (formerly known as just me :D) is delighted to announce that 
>> *NoteSelf online 
>> edition* is now an offline-first experience.
>>
>> This means that you will be able to use the online edition *even if you 
>> are offline*, isn't that mind-blowing ? 
>>
>>
>> Wait, there is more! 
>>
>>
>> Being an offline-first application allows you to use NoteSelf *like* a 
>> native mobile app. This mean that you can have it on your *app launcher 
>> with it's own icon*, that it will appear on your list of opened/recent 
>> apps and some other features restricted to native applications.
>>
>> Hey, hey, hey, I want this! Fine, this is how:
>>
>>1. navigate to noteself.github.io/online with a *compatible browser*
>>2. open your browsers options and select "add to home screen" (text 
>>may vary depending on language and browser version)
>>3. you will see something similar to the below image (sorry it is on 
>>spanish)
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>   4. NoteSelf can now live along with the test of your apps! 

[tw] Re: NoteSelf mobile app ( well, kind of)

[Greg Hodgins]

Hi Steve.

Thanks Daniel.  I saw your initial NoteSelf press release :-) the other 
night.  I tried it mobile and wasn't truly understanding everything you 
were trying to achieve.  Initially I thought it was all about the launch 
icon on the device making more more like a native app.  Cool, but wasn't 
enough to keep me that interested.

Then I read a little more in some other posts here and see you are 
interested in solving the mobile user experience.  Again, not a huge 
concern to me currently BUT something I am definitely interested in.

This also led to some more research as to what this couchDB reference was. 
 Seeing some more posts including Steve had me checking the difference (and 
now understanding relationship) between pouchDB and couchDB.  Now I'm 
really interested.

Of course much of this is covered here. https://noteself.github.io/. 
 Sometimes it's just information overload - although I think there are some 
things that could be made clearer off the top.  That said, there are so 
many different audiences to cover it is almost impossible.

Long story short, I get it - I think.  NoteSelf uses a local in browser 
NoSQL database called pouchDB that supports 2 way replication with couchDB.

Like Steve I setup a Cloudant couchDB.  Pretty simple.

Steve, two things, your couchDB URL is in the URL of your DB admin page. 
 It is also visible in Account, Virtual Hosts.It is the name you could 
optionally replace with your own host name.  eg: 
c4e83ce0-e302-42a2-8d3d-5cd3a8ae59e2-bluemix.cloudant.com. 
 
Obviously I modified above, but hopefully you will recognize that.

With respect to your error check the CORS tab on the same account screen. 
 While I don't want to leave all domains (*) as currently selected, I am 
not sure how to code for a file hosted browser session.  Ultimately even 
some kind of local http: host is probably necessary with a host name to 
configure restricted CORS from.

With those to things I got NoteSelf replicating as advertised.  Very cool.

I'm certainly wanting to explore the security aspect a little more.  I 
gather that the GUID URL is one form of security and anyone accessing that 
URL has read/write access.  I hope you can add a little more security in 
that you appear to be able to set the permissions on the database and then 
generate API keys.  I'm not sure how/where you embed this in NoteSelf, 
assuming you do.

Have to run, but will be back.

Good luck.

P.S.  Exploring this as an alternative to my current node.js hosted on 
Google Drive approach that isn't proven sound in any way. No version 
control and not multi-user, that that NoteSelf is either me thinks.

All the best.


On Thursday, December 29, 2016 at 4:15:20 PM UTC-5, Danielo Rodríguez wrote:
>
> On their continuous effort to deliver cutting edge features to you, the 
> NoteSelf team (formerly known as just me :D) is delighted to announce that 
> *NoteSelf online 
> edition* is now an offline-first experience.
>
> This means that you will be able to use the online edition *even if you 
> are offline*, isn't that mind-blowing ? 
>
>
> Wait, there is more! 
>
>
> Being an offline-first application allows you to use NoteSelf *like* a 
> native mobile app. This mean that you can have it on your *app launcher 
> with it's own icon*, that it will appear on your list of opened/recent 
> apps and some other features restricted to native applications.
>
> Hey, hey, hey, I want this! Fine, this is how:
>
>1. navigate to noteself.github.io/online with a *compatible browser*
>2. open your browsers options and select "add to home screen" (text 
>may vary depending on language and browser version)
>3. you will see something similar to the below image (sorry it is on 
>spanish)
>
>
> 
>
>   4. NoteSelf can now live along with the test of your apps! (pic 
> below)
>
>
> 
>
>   5. it even has a beautiful (depending on your likings) splash screen!
>
>
> 
>
> The supported browsers for the native app experience are chrome and Opera 
> so far, Firefox is on the way. The offline capabilities should work on a 
> wider range of of browsers.
>
>
> This have several advantages over the offline version:
>
>- Allways up to date. Don't worry anymore about updating, the online 
>version is allways the latest version!
>- Direct access from your launcher with a recognizable icon
>- Easier to use: because we rely on web standards the user experience 
>is delightful. For some reason mobile browser vendors doesn't like opening 
>local html files and 

[tw] Re: NoteSelf mobile app ( well, kind of)

[Ste Wilson]

Ok... 
Well here's the non teach user feedback. 

First question.. Do I need to save it to my device first or just use it 
straight from github because from 'You can start using your notebook right now' 
suggests I can fill in details on the form in front of me i.e 
https://noteself.github.io/online/

1a. What's a couchdb and where can I get one? (I know from your comments here 
that cloudant is the place to go)

2. Cloudant is a whole can of worms for a non techie (I think I've set up a db 
but I'm not sure) . Perhaps a little more hand holding needed. 

3. What is the couchdb url? The couchdb tiddler provides a little more clarity. 

4. Remote database name. 
Is this just the name of the database I think I've created on cloudant or does 
it need a url? 

I've set up a cloudant account and created a db called'noteself'. 

I've filled in the fields. Pressed the button and get; 

Syncer-browser - 22:47:21 4 1 2017
XMLHttpRequest error code: 0

And that's as far as I've got... 

Ste


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[tw] Re: NoteSelf mobile app ( well, kind of)

[Danielo Rodríguez]

El lunes, 2 de enero de 2017, 17:03:30 (UTC+1), Josiah escribió:
>
> Ciao Danielo
>
> I think its a BRILLIANT piece of work.
>

Thank you very Much!
 

>
> I don't use mobile phones much and its not my main interest. My main 
> interest is how the PouchDB mechanism works as a potential saving mechanism 
> across all browsers and device types. AND that PouchDB is superb for multi 
> device syncing with a cloud IF you want that too. THAT is really exciting: 
> (1) To see the possibility of a standard "out-of-the-box", easy local 
> saving mechanism PLUS (2) reliable cloud based multi-device sync.
>

I'm happy that you see NoteSelf that way. It's cool to see that both you 
and me, with different interest (mobile + desktop vs desktop only ) can 
find the capabilities of NoteSelf interesting.
 

>
> Whilst there are several current, interesting, new systems emerging for 
> working with TW, your solution SMELLS SWEET to me :-)
>

Again, thank you very much. Feel free to use it as much as you want :-)
 

>
> In earlier threads I note that Jeremy Ruston is wary of having ones 
> TiddlyWiki locked up inside a specific browsers data storage department. I 
> think if his worry is addressed in a clear way with easy routes to export 
> and backup of Tiddler content I hope he'll see the upsides to your work so 
> far.
>

Several users have that worry too, which is perfectly understandable. One 
of the main targets of Tiddlywiki and what users loves the most if the 
reliability and reachability of their data. Explaining those on a clear way 
should be a MUST.
 


> I do wish more people with technical skill were expressing interest in 
> this. I note Mat's enthusiam & am glad for it. Its a lot for one person to 
> do it all. 
>

Yes me too, but I also want regular users giving their feedback. Probably 
regular users is what I need the most.
 
 

> Mat refereed to its "magical" nature. I think that hits the spot. And is 
> it White magic or Black magic? :-). I think part of what would be helpful 
> to reduce the idea you are the "Fairy Godfather" :-) is to explain a bit 
> more about what "in browser storage" is. What the UPSIDES are and what the 
> DOWNSIDES might be. 
>

Yes, you are right. I can't expect people giving me their data without a 
clear explanation of how all this works. Well, regular users will do, but 
not tiddlywiki community.
 

>
> Personally after using it a bit in Firefox I got interested in WHERE is 
> the data kept in Firefox. I still haven't found the DB, though I know it 
> must be there somewhere :-)
>

That should be added to the FAQ too.
 

>
> Just to let you know that I will continue to play with it. I am seriously 
> thinking of it as a very suitable way to create and publish e-pubs for 
> audiences who just want to read & add notes, not fiddle about with a 
> zillion different ways they have to save etc.
>

I never thought about that! It is a very cool idea.

Thank you for your feedback Josiah. 

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[tw] Re: NoteSelf mobile app ( well, kind of)

[Danielo Rodríguez]

 

> Heh, a funny thing happened: To try out installing a plugin, I installed 
> the plugin "Documentation from tiddlywiki.com". If I understand, this 
> overwrites both the Default tiddlers and the GettingStarted tiddler... 
> which means I can then not re-access the Noteself GettingStarted tiddler! 
>

Never though about that! To be honest, I don't find the documentation 
plugin of any help. But, I think it is a tiddlywiki limitation that you 
have to overrride the getting started plugin. Ideally you should be able to 
just add things to it. Sadly, If you install another plugin that overrides 
one of my plugins tiddlers there is not  much I can do. But, in any case, 
what are you missing from that tiddler? Once you have your wiki configured 
you don't need it anymore.

 

> The Revisions feature in GettingStarted also does not show anything. Had 
> to uninstall the docs plugin to access the NoteSelf GettingStarted again.
>
>
Do you mean that you have clicked the revisions button of that tiddler? 
That is normal, you are not creating a new version of that tiddler, you are 
just showing a different one.
 
 

> In fiddling with the above, I clicked the site subtitle which opens the 
> Ctrlpanel>TiddlyPouch>Database. 
> IMO the tab label should be "NoteSelf" instead of "TiddlyPouch" - I don't 
> want to have to learn more terminology/names and the tab content is only(?) 
> relevant for the NoteSelf context anyway.
>

That tab is from the TiddlyPouch plugin, which operates under NoteSelf 
edition. I admit that it could be confusing. One solution would be to 
create a NoteSelf customization plugin that overrides those details.


> There the overlapping info in 
>
> GettingStarted
> Ctrlpanel>TiddlyPouch>Database
> Ctrlpanel>Info>Basics
>
> ...this is a bit confusing, mostly because the same info is presented 
> differently.
>

Well, GettingStarted and Ctrlpanel>Info>Basics overlaps even on the default 
edition of tiddlywiki. GettingStarted is not intended to be accessed 
frequently, but to provide a friendly welcome to the user. That's why it 
overlaps with some other tiddlers. But overlapping only occurs between 
GettingStarted and the other two, because they do not overlap between each 
other.
 

>
> Actually, as an end user, where the data is stored even more belongs under 
> the Ctrlpanel>Savings tab.
>

Yes. I should override that tab. I think I discarded that idea long long 
time ago, while my intention was to allow TiddlyPouch live in a regular 
Tiddlywiki edition, but that goal is farther each day.
 


In GettingStarted it says
>
>  You can have as many notebooks as you want. Just change the Notebook Name , 
>> save and reload. 
>
>
> This triggers the "download, save to local drive" process which does not 
> seem correct - or? I was hoping it would just magically create and save to 
> a new browser db. This does not work for me in chrome nor FF. (Win10.)
>

You're right, it is confusing. Well, to be honest, it is confusing for the 
experienced tiddlywiki user, because you know where the save button is 
located. If you look closely, there is a button that reads: "save config" 
Once you hit that button, the rest happens automatically. I think I should 
be even clearer and say click Save Config button and that's all. I feel 
that instructions are from earlier stages of development.
 

...actually, how is it even possible for the system to know if clicking 
> standard save button should mean create a new selfnote db or download local 
> copy (or even upload to a tiddlyspot if such data is filled in)?
>

Yes too many moving parts. The system does not know nothing about uploading 
to tiddlyspot, I should remove those references from standard TW. If you 
click "Save Config" then the system is notified and it knows what to do. If 
you click the regular save button you will get a database export in JSON 
format, some kind of backup/export facility. 

 

> ...
>
> E.g for FAQ:
> What "browser stuff" (cache, cookies, history...) is safe to clear out 
> without affecting my NoteSelf data?
> What about browser "Incognito mode".
>

Good points, should be added to the FAQ
 

 

> Taking a step back to evaluate the situation, I realize that I have some 
> hesitation with using SelfNote because a lot still seems so magical.
>

I understand how do you feel. Many times it feels magical even to me. Not 
to mention that TiddlyWiki itself is pure magic...

 

>
> I see super potential in this tho.
>
> <:-)
>

As usual, thank you for your great feedback Mat
 

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[tw] Re: NoteSelf mobile app ( well, kind of)

[Danielo Rodríguez]

Hello and thanks to both Mat and Josiah. 
I have read your very well exposed points, and I want to answer them properly. 
Now I'm writing this from my mobile phone, let me reach my home and I will try 
to answer both of you. 

Regards 

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[tw] Re: NoteSelf mobile app ( well, kind of)

[Josiah]

Ciao again Danielo

I was wondering, given the sophistication of the PouchDB (TW) and a 
possible CouchDB (Apache server) combo could this permit what I might call 
"A Surrogate Multi-User TW"? 

What I mean is if I synced to multiple devices could I work on one could I 
go further than have the other version register it? For instance, I get 3 
other people to work simultaneously on three other instances of the same on 
different computers, could it cope and harmonise them?

As far as I grasp the tech both PouchDB and CouchDB are optimised for 
syncing. In that sense its a kind of multi-users system, though with no 
hierarchy rights?

Maybe I got this wrong?

Best wishes
Josiah

On Monday, 2 January 2017 17:03:30 UTC+1, Josiah wrote:
>
> Ciao Danielo
>
> I think its a BRILLIANT piece of work.
>
> I don't use mobile phones much and its not my main interest. My main 
> interest is how the PouchDB mechanism works as a potential saving mechanism 
> across all browsers and device types. AND that PouchDB is superb for multi 
> device syncing with a cloud IF you want that too. THAT is really exciting: 
> (1) To see the possibility of a standard "out-of-the-box", easy local 
> saving mechanism PLUS (2) reliable cloud based multi-device sync.
>
> Whilst there are several current, interesting, new systems emerging for 
> working with TW, your solution SMELLS SWEET to me :-). 
>
> In earlier threads I note that Jeremy Ruston is wary of having ones 
> TiddlyWiki locked up inside a specific browsers data storage department. I 
> think if his worry is addressed in a clear way with easy routes to export 
> and backup of Tiddler content I hope he'll see the upsides to your work so 
> far.
>
> I do wish more people with technical skill were expressing interest in 
> this. I note Mat's enthusiam & am glad for it. Its a lot for one person to 
> do it all. 
>
> From other PouchDB projects I looked at, its a very clear and thought 
> through approach that embraces the modern net well.
>
> Mat refereed to its "magical" nature. I think that hits the spot. And is 
> it White magic or Black magic? :-). I think part of what would be helpful 
> to reduce the idea you are the "Fairy Godfather" :-) is to explain a bit 
> more about what "in browser storage" is. What the UPSIDES are and what the 
> DOWNSIDES might be. 
>
> Personally after using it a bit in Firefox I got interested in WHERE is 
> the data kept in Firefox. I still haven't found the DB, though I know it 
> must be there somewhere :-)
>
> Just to let you know that I will continue to play with it. I am seriously 
> thinking of it as a very suitable way to create and publish e-pubs for 
> audiences who just want to read & add notes, not fiddle about with a 
> zillion different ways they have to save etc. 
>
> The one problem I had on this release was exactly the same as what Mat 
> described for plugins.
>
> Best wishes 
> Josiah
>
>
> On Thursday, 29 December 2016 22:15:20 UTC+1, Danielo Rodríguez wrote:
>>
>> On their continuous effort to deliver cutting edge features to you, the 
>> NoteSelf team (formerly known as just me :D) is delighted to announce that 
>> *NoteSelf online 
>> edition* is now an offline-first experience.
>>
>> This means that you will be able to use the online edition *even if you 
>> are offline*, isn't that mind-blowing ? 
>>
>>
>> Wait, there is more! 
>>
>>
>> Being an offline-first application allows you to use NoteSelf *like* a 
>> native mobile app. This mean that you can have it on your *app launcher 
>> with it's own icon*, that it will appear on your list of opened/recent 
>> apps and some other features restricted to native applications.
>>
>> Hey, hey, hey, I want this! Fine, this is how:
>>
>>1. navigate to noteself.github.io/online with a *compatible browser*
>>2. open your browsers options and select "add to home screen" (text 
>>may vary depending on language and browser version)
>>3. you will see something similar to the below image (sorry it is on 
>>spanish)
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>   4. NoteSelf can now live along with the test of your apps! (pic 
>> below)
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>   5. it even has a beautiful (depending on your likings) splash 
>> screen!
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> The supported browsers for the native app experience are chrome and Opera 
>> so far, Firefox is on the way. The offline capabilities should work on a 
>> wider range of of browsers.
>>
>>
>> This have several advantages over the offline version:
>>
>>- Allways up to date. Don't worry anymore about updating, the 

[tw] Re: NoteSelf mobile app ( well, kind of)

[Josiah]

Ciao Danielo

I think its a BRILLIANT piece of work.

I don't use mobile phones much and its not my main interest. My main 
interest is how the PouchDB mechanism works as a potential saving mechanism 
across all browsers and device types. AND that PouchDB is superb for multi 
device syncing with a cloud IF you want that too. THAT is really exciting: 
(1) To see the possibility of a standard "out-of-the-box", easy local 
saving mechanism PLUS (2) reliable cloud based multi-device sync.

Whilst there are several current, interesting, new systems emerging for 
working with TW, your solution SMELLS SWEET to me :-). 

In earlier threads I note that Jeremy Ruston is wary of having ones 
TiddlyWiki locked up inside a specific browsers data storage department. I 
think if his worry is addressed in a clear way with easy routes to export 
and backup of Tiddler content I hope he'll see the upsides to your work so 
far.

I do wish more people with technical skill were expressing interest in 
this. I note Mat's enthusiam & am glad for it. Its a lot for one person to 
do it all. 

>From other PouchDB projects I looked at, its a very clear and thought 
through approach that embraces the modern net well.

Mat refereed to its "magical" nature. I think that hits the spot. And is it 
White magic or Black magic? :-). I think part of what would be helpful to 
reduce the idea you are the "Fairy Godfather" :-) is to explain a bit more 
about what "in browser storage" is. What the UPSIDES are and what the 
DOWNSIDES might be. 

Personally after using it a bit in Firefox I got interested in WHERE is the 
data kept in Firefox. I still haven't found the DB, though I know it must 
be there somewhere :-)

Just to let you know that I will continue to play with it. I am seriously 
thinking of it as a very suitable way to create and publish e-pubs for 
audiences who just want to read & add notes, not fiddle about with a 
zillion different ways they have to save etc. 

The one problem I had on this release was exactly the same as what Mat 
described for plugins.

Best wishes 
Josiah


On Thursday, 29 December 2016 22:15:20 UTC+1, Danielo Rodríguez wrote:
>
> On their continuous effort to deliver cutting edge features to you, the 
> NoteSelf team (formerly known as just me :D) is delighted to announce that 
> *NoteSelf online 
> edition* is now an offline-first experience.
>
> This means that you will be able to use the online edition *even if you 
> are offline*, isn't that mind-blowing ? 
>
>
> Wait, there is more! 
>
>
> Being an offline-first application allows you to use NoteSelf *like* a 
> native mobile app. This mean that you can have it on your *app launcher 
> with it's own icon*, that it will appear on your list of opened/recent 
> apps and some other features restricted to native applications.
>
> Hey, hey, hey, I want this! Fine, this is how:
>
>1. navigate to noteself.github.io/online with a *compatible browser*
>2. open your browsers options and select "add to home screen" (text 
>may vary depending on language and browser version)
>3. you will see something similar to the below image (sorry it is on 
>spanish)
>
>
> 
>
>   4. NoteSelf can now live along with the test of your apps! (pic 
> below)
>
>
> 
>
>   5. it even has a beautiful (depending on your likings) splash screen!
>
>
> 
>
> The supported browsers for the native app experience are chrome and Opera 
> so far, Firefox is on the way. The offline capabilities should work on a 
> wider range of of browsers.
>
>
> This have several advantages over the offline version:
>
>- Allways up to date. Don't worry anymore about updating, the online 
>version is allways the latest version!
>- Direct access from your launcher with a recognizable icon
>- Easier to use: because we rely on web standards the user experience 
>is delightful. For some reason mobile browser vendors doesn't like opening 
>local html files and opening them can become a tedious task. Sometimes its 
>is just not possible.
>
>
> Hope you enjoy this new feature as much as I do , at the end I'm the main 
> user of NoteSelf :)
>

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[tw] Re: NoteSelf mobile app ( well, kind of)

[Mat]

>
> Hey Mat, don't forget to come back with your impressions :)



Heh, a funny thing happened: To try out installing a plugin, I installed 
the plugin "Documentation from tiddlywiki.com". If I understand, this 
overwrites both the Default tiddlers and the GettingStarted tiddler... 
which means I can then not re-access the Noteself GettingStarted tiddler! 
The Revisions feature in GettingStarted also does not show anything. Had to 
uninstall the docs plugin to access the NoteSelf GettingStarted again.

...

In fiddling with the above, I clicked the site subtitle which opens the 
Ctrlpanel>TiddlyPouch>Database. 
IMO the tab label should be "NoteSelf" instead of "TiddlyPouch" - I don't 
want to have to learn more terminology/names and the tab content is only(?) 
relevant for the NoteSelf context anyway.

...

There the overlapping info in 

GettingStarted
Ctrlpanel>TiddlyPouch>Database
Ctrlpanel>Info>Basics

...this is a bit confusing, mostly because the same info is presented 
differently. 

Actually, as an end user, where the data is stored even more belongs under 
the Ctrlpanel>Savings tab.

...

Bigger issue:

In GettingStarted it says

 You can have as many notebooks as you want. Just change the Notebook Name , 
> save and reload. 


This triggers the "download, save to local drive" process which does not 
seem correct - or? I was hoping it would just magically create and save to 
a new browser db. This does not work for me in chrome nor FF. (Win10.)

...actually, how is it even possible for the system to know if clicking 
standard save button should mean create a new selfnote db or download local 
copy (or even upload to a tiddlyspot if such data is filled in)?

...

E.g for FAQ:
What "browser stuff" (cache, cookies, history...) is safe to clear out 
without affecting my NoteSelf data?
What about browser "Incognito mode".

...

Taking a step back to evaluate the situation, I realize that I have some 
hesitation with using SelfNote because a lot still seems so magical.

I see super potential in this tho.

<:-)

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[tw] Re: NoteSelf mobile app ( well, kind of)

[Danielo Rodríguez]

Hey Mat, don't forget to come back with your impressions :) 

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[tw] Re: NoteSelf mobile app ( well, kind of)

[Mat]

>
> Hello Mat,.. Was that your first time opening Noteself from chrome?


On my phone, yes.
 
Thanks for video link. Will watch tonight.

<:-)

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[tw] Re: NoteSelf mobile app ( well, kind of)

[Danielo Rodríguez]

Hello Mat,.. Was that your first time opening Noteself from chrome? Or maybe 
you have opened it before? Sometimes the automatic update process can get 
messy, I think I will disable it for the next release 

Regarding the offline thing, hope the following video helps you understand the 
concept (please ignore the audio) 

https://youtu.be/WO2iCBKvx4I

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[tw] Re: NoteSelf mobile app ( well, kind of)

[Mat]

Danielo kickin' ass as usual! :-D

 

> The supported browsers for the native app experience are chrome and...

 
On my a-few-years-old samsung mobile the page only loads some 70% in 
Chrome, so nothing shows. I do get it to load fully with the native samsung 
browser.
 

This means that you will be able to use the online edition *even if you are 
> offline*, isn't that mind-blowing ? 
>

I barely understand what it means.
 

*app launcher with it's own icon*,
>

That's really cool! I didn't realize browsers feature this.

<:-)

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