Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Connections and Features
Nigel Thanks for your information. The data given by Bert seems to be getting more sensible, and I think you will agree that of all the items that have been purchased and discussed on Time-Nuts, this one is hands down for confusion. One of the reasons for my trusting and buying from Bob (Fluke I) is that he is well informed, , has good electronic knowledge and has always provided good items of gear. It would seem that the number of Chinese sellers has increased in the recent past and many of them would seem to have little knowledge of the products and even less English to answer questions. Again it would seem that if you buy the cheapies then you probably have the basic, non programmable model. I guess the guys at FE are all falling about when they see our predicament ! Roy -- From: gandal...@aol.com Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2012 3:49 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Connections and Features Hi Roy If your unit is generating an output as you report, without 5 volts to pin 4, then I'd leave well alone. On the current batches of cheaper units, that do require a 5 volt supply to pin 4, they won't lock or provide an output without it. Removing that 5 volt supply from a unit that's already up and running, on two that I've tested so far anyway, causes it to lose lock and the 10MHz output collapses, which would seem to be a fairly strong indication that on these units it is needed:-) regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 08/01/2012 12:57:57 GMT Standard Time, phill...@btinternet.com writes: Somebody on the list has suggested that it could do damage to this variant, to connect 5 volts to pin 4, to date I have not done this, Can any member confirm these details. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Connections and Features
Hi Roy There's some very good stuff coming out of China via Ebay, but some does come with confusion attached and it's probably best never to place too much reliance on descriptions unless for items reasonably well known or with relevant documentation available. Just to add to the confusion, quite a few sellers seem to use multiple IDs, sometimes blatantly obvious but sometimes not, and also exhibit almost paranoid behaviour at times when it comes to not sharing information with those considered to be local competitors. The paranoia, of course, might be well founded:-) Probably best not to assume either that any of these sellers are too well informed electronically. If you think it can be confusing with the surplus commercial gear, just wait until you see what they can do when they start to dabble with design, either their own or those borrowed from elsewhere:-) The FE5680A has certainly been one of the confusing items, firstly just because there are a number of variants that aren't publicly documented but not helped again by some sellers providing incorrect information. I wouldn't necessarily describe the current batch of cheaper FE5680As as basic though, or even non programmable. They provide both 10MHz and 1PPS outputs, I've identified a well defined 1uS 5V pulse available on pin 6 despite doubts in some quarters, and are programmable to the extent that the output frequency can be trimmed under computer control with a fair degree of accuracy and without any of the possible longer term problems sometimes associated with variable resistors. They certainly beat at least one of my FE5660As, an FRS-C compatible unit, where the internal trimmer fell off the PCB in transit:-) regards Nigel In a message dated 09/01/2012 11:57:22 GMT Standard Time, phill...@btinternet.com writes: Nigel Thanks for your information. The data given by Bert seems to be getting more sensible, and I think you will agree that of all the items that have been purchased and discussed on Time-Nuts, this one is hands down for confusion. One of the reasons for my trusting and buying from Bob (Fluke I) is that he is well informed, , has good electronic knowledge and has always provided good items of gear. It would seem that the number of Chinese sellers has increased in the recent past and many of them would seem to have little knowledge of the products and even less English to answer questions. Again it would seem that if you buy the cheapies then you probably have the basic, non programmable model. I guess the guys at FE are all falling about when they see our predicament ! ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Connections and Features
On 1/9/2012 7:21 AM, gandal...@aol.com wrote: Hi Roy There's some very good stuff coming out of China via Ebay, but some does come with confusion attached and it's probably best never to place too much reliance on descriptions unless for items reasonably well known or with relevant documentation available. Just to add to the confusion, quite a few sellers seem to use multiple IDs, sometimes blatantly obvious but sometimes not, and also exhibit almost paranoid behaviour at times when it comes to not sharing information with those considered to be local competitors. The paranoia, of course, might be well founded:-) One other aspect of their paranoia is that many of the Chinese sellers make all their auctions private. It makes me wonder what they're hiding. Maybe their paranoia is a bit contagious. :-) Private auctions really annoy me because if I see some negative ratings, I can't tell what item they were complaining about. Maybe it was the item I was interested in, maybe not. But since I can't tell, I'm likely to take my business elsewhere. Probably best not to assume either that any of these sellers are too well informed electronically. I asked one of the Fe-5680A sellers if his unit had the 1 PPS output on pin 6. If he had been testing the units, it would have been trivial for him to check. I never received a response from him. I won't be buying anything from him in the future. If you think it can be confusing with the surplus commercial gear, just wait until you see what they can do when they start to dabble with design, either their own or those borrowed from elsewhere:-) The FE5680A has certainly been one of the confusing items, firstly just because there are a number of variants that aren't publicly documented but not helped again by some sellers providing incorrect information. I've noticed that they often copy their competitor's information - particularly amusing when you know that all of them are wrong! Ed I wouldn't necessarily describe the current batch of cheaper FE5680As as basic though, or even non programmable. They provide both 10MHz and 1PPS outputs, I've identified a well defined 1uS 5V pulse available on pin 6 despite doubts in some quarters, and are programmable to the extent that the output frequency can be trimmed under computer control with a fair degree of accuracy and without any of the possible longer term problems sometimes associated with variable resistors. They certainly beat at least one of my FE5660As, an FRS-C compatible unit, where the internal trimmer fell off the PCB in transit:-) regards Nigel In a message dated 09/01/2012 11:57:22 GMT Standard Time, phill...@btinternet.com writes: Nigel Thanks for your information. The data given by Bert seems to be getting more sensible, and I think you will agree that of all the items that have been purchased and discussed on Time-Nuts, this one is hands down for confusion. One of the reasons for my trusting and buying from Bob (Fluke I) is that he is well informed, , has good electronic knowledge and has always provided good items of gear. It would seem that the number of Chinese sellers has increased in the recent past and many of them would seem to have little knowledge of the products and even less English to answer questions. Again it would seem that if you buy the cheapies then you probably have the basic, non programmable model. I guess the guys at FE are all falling about when they see our predicament ! ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Connections and Features
In some cases they have been cough having some one bid up the price. Bert Kehren In a message dated 1/9/2012 11:05:01 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, ed_pal...@sasktel.net writes: On 1/9/2012 7:21 AM, gandal...@aol.com wrote: Hi Roy There's some very good stuff coming out of China via Ebay, but some does come with confusion attached and it's probably best never to place too much reliance on descriptions unless for items reasonably well known or with relevant documentation available. Just to add to the confusion, quite a few sellers seem to use multiple IDs, sometimes blatantly obvious but sometimes not, and also exhibit almost paranoid behaviour at times when it comes to not sharing information with those considered to be local competitors. The paranoia, of course, might be well founded:-) One other aspect of their paranoia is that many of the Chinese sellers make all their auctions private. It makes me wonder what they're hiding. Maybe their paranoia is a bit contagious. :-) Private auctions really annoy me because if I see some negative ratings, I can't tell what item they were complaining about. Maybe it was the item I was interested in, maybe not. But since I can't tell, I'm likely to take my business elsewhere. Probably best not to assume either that any of these sellers are too well informed electronically. I asked one of the Fe-5680A sellers if his unit had the 1 PPS output on pin 6. If he had been testing the units, it would have been trivial for him to check. I never received a response from him. I won't be buying anything from him in the future. If you think it can be confusing with the surplus commercial gear, just wait until you see what they can do when they start to dabble with design, either their own or those borrowed from elsewhere:-) The FE5680A has certainly been one of the confusing items, firstly just because there are a number of variants that aren't publicly documented but not helped again by some sellers providing incorrect information. I've noticed that they often copy their competitor's information - particularly amusing when you know that all of them are wrong! Ed I wouldn't necessarily describe the current batch of cheaper FE5680As as basic though, or even non programmable. They provide both 10MHz and 1PPS outputs, I've identified a well defined 1uS 5V pulse available on pin 6 despite doubts in some quarters, and are programmable to the extent that the output frequency can be trimmed under computer control with a fair degree of accuracy and without any of the possible longer term problems sometimes associated with variable resistors. They certainly beat at least one of my FE5660As, an FRS-C compatible unit, where the internal trimmer fell off the PCB in transit:-) regards Nigel In a message dated 09/01/2012 11:57:22 GMT Standard Time, phill...@btinternet.com writes: Nigel Thanks for your information. The data given by Bert seems to be getting more sensible, and I think you will agree that of all the items that have been purchased and discussed on Time-Nuts, this one is hands down for confusion. One of the reasons for my trusting and buying from Bob (Fluke I) is that he is well informed, , has good electronic knowledge and has always provided good items of gear. It would seem that the number of Chinese sellers has increased in the recent past and many of them would seem to have little knowledge of the products and even less English to answer questions. Again it would seem that if you buy the cheapies then you probably have the basic, non programmable model. I guess the guys at FE are all falling about when they see our predicament ! ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Connections and Features
Well done Bert, at last some sensible information regarding the multiplicity of models of this Rb. I obtained my example from Fluke I for the higher price - but he assures me that it is the RS232 programmable unit. I have not had the opportunity to investigate it fully, but it would seem not to require the additional 5 volt supply. The power requirements are 15 volts, at initially 1.9 Amps, reducing to 680/700mA. Without any programming, it provides a 1pps. signal from pin 6 of the 9-pin D connector. According to my 53131A (locked to the GPS standard), the 1 pps is 1.000,000,001 s. The modifications to the unit made by an earlier owner, suggests bringing the (selected) signal out form the case, to a separate BNC, and another 9 pin D for the RS232. Somebody on the list has suggested that it could do damage to this variant, to connect 5 volts to pin 4, to date I have not done this, Can any member confirm these details. Thanks. Roy -- From: ewkeh...@aol.com Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 12:25 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Connections and Features Sorry I ever started this. In the past the FE5680's started out with a 50.255 MHz XTAL, some time in the 2002 2003 timeframe they switched to 60 MHz using a DDS in the loop. All of these units can only be stepped in 7 E-13 steps limited by the resolution of the DDS. Having followed all the listings on this subject is it safe to assume that 99% of the units sold in the $ 40 range are identical in that respect. At prior times there was and still is a unit available that from the 50.255 drives a DDS and a programmable output is available at a premium price. All seem to be above $ 100. Claims that the 60 MHz units can be set in 1 E-13 is bogus and misleading. Maybe if you dither the input, but since the loop is most likely digital I do not know what that will do. Accept 7 E -13 or do as I will do, use the C field. Pin 8 and 9 are RS 232. Bert Kehren In a message dated 12/11/2011 5:46:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, snapp...@gmail.com writes: Like many of you, I have seen these advertised on Ebay at good prices. Also, like many of you, I am confused about the 'programmability' and connections. Many of them advertise these connections:- PIN 1: INPUT +15V to +18V PIN 2: GROUND PIN 3: LOCK/UNLOCK (high = unlock) PIN 4: INPUT +5V PIN 5: GROUND PIN 7: OUTPUT ( 10MHz sinewave ) Many of them also say Digitally programmable to 1x10-13, with the above connections. (Many of the sites seem to have the same descriptive text.) On questioning one of them about how the programming was done, they replied Not with this model; only with the more expensive one he sells ! But from what I read in some of the time-nuts contributions, there is sometimes (?) or often (?) also these connections:- Pin 6 1 pps out Pin 8 RS-232 Rx (into rubidium) Pin 9 RS-232 Tx (from rubidium) Can anyone tell me if they ALL have the MAX level shifter/driver chip fitted, even though it may not be connected to the connector ? I don't want full programmability, just 10 MHz frequency correction. Perhaps I just have to take pot luck when I buy ? What are my chances of getting one with the 'hidden' RS232 and 1PPS output ? All advice appreciated. Thanks. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Connections and Features
Hi Roy If your unit is generating an output as you report, without 5 volts to pin 4, then I'd leave well alone. On the current batches of cheaper units, that do require a 5 volt supply to pin 4, they won't lock or provide an output without it. Removing that 5 volt supply from a unit that's already up and running, on two that I've tested so far anyway, causes it to lose lock and the 10MHz output collapses, which would seem to be a fairly strong indication that on these units it is needed:-) regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 08/01/2012 12:57:57 GMT Standard Time, phill...@btinternet.com writes: Somebody on the list has suggested that it could do damage to this variant, to connect 5 volts to pin 4, to date I have not done this, Can any member confirm these details. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Connections and Features
Nigel Thanks for your comments - - the plot thickens. Would this indicate that the 5 volt supply required for general internal use is obtained by an internal Vreg. from the basic 15 volt supply - - I would guess so because the overall current requirement would seem to be similar ? What is for sure, is that the manufacturers offered this product in various bespoke styles without any external (case) indication. We await those of you that are keen and able to investigate in depth. By the way, I gave the Russian Rb unit, which came out of my Quartzlock 10A-R, to a new Time-nut in my locality. I note that another Quartzlock 10A-R is currently being offered by one of our popular websites - I wonder if it has the same Rb unit ? Regards Roy -Original Message- From: gandal...@aol.com Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2012 3:49 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Connections and Features Hi Roy If your unit is generating an output as you report, without 5 volts to pin 4, then I'd leave well alone. On the current batches of cheaper units, that do require a 5 volt supply to pin 4, they won't lock or provide an output without it. Removing that 5 volt supply from a unit that's already up and running, on two that I've tested so far anyway, causes it to lose lock and the 10MHz output collapses, which would seem to be a fairly strong indication that on these units it is needed:-) regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 08/01/2012 12:57:57 GMT Standard Time, phill...@btinternet.com writes: Somebody on the list has suggested that it could do damage to this variant, to connect 5 volts to pin 4, to date I have not done this, Can any member confirm these details. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Connections and Features
On Sun, Jan 8, 2012 at 7:49 AM, gandal...@aol.com wrote: Hi Roy If your unit is generating an output as you report, without 5 volts to pin 4, then I'd leave well alone. On the current batches of cheaper units, that do require a 5 volt supply to pin 4, they won't lock or provide an output without it. If you look inside, on some units there is a voltage regulator and on other units there are bare solder pads where the regulator and some capacitors would go.My guess is that if you got the bare pads you need to supply 5V. The reverse may not be true, I've read a report of a regulator that was installed but disconnected. I think these FE5680 units were all built to customer specs and each batch of a few thousand units is different. I wish there were some rule that when you change a product to have to change the part number but there is no such rule Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb I see the price has gone up for these
On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com wrote: It took about 32 minutes to make lock. Before that it was cycling between about +75 and -200 Hz. That seems rather slow - I just checked the 4 units I have here (D/C 0321, 0330, 0342 and 0349) and they all locked in under 3:30 from cold - the fastest was just under 2:58. Regards, Pete ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb I see the price has gone up for these
FWIW. I just hapened on this power supply in an ad. You might find a fixed voltage one somewhere cheaper, but the price seemed ok, so here it is for consideration... http://www.mpja.com/email/12-13-11.asp?r=284759s=2 Still need the 5 V somehow, so not a complete solution for the 5680A. On 12/19/2011 3:06 PM, gandal...@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 19/12/2011 22:27:22 GMT Standard Time, c...@omen.com writes: This thing requires plenty of current to get started. My Tek CPS250 1.2 amp output (A+B parallel) only gets 7.5 volts. Now to scrounge something a bit bigger. - The 15 volts to pin 1 starts off needing to supply around 1.7 Amps, eventually falling to somewhere between 700 and 800 mA. Pin 4 always draws around 85 to 90 mA from its 5 volt supply. regards Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb I see the price has gone up for these
-- From: Rex r...@sonic.net Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 1:10 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb I see the price has gone up for these FWIW. I just hapened on this power supply in an ad. You might find a fixed voltage one somewhere cheaper, but the price seemed ok, so here it is for consideration... http://www.mpja.com/email/12-13-11.asp?r=284759s=2 Still need the 5 V somehow, so not a complete solution for the 5680A. On 12/19/2011 3:06 PM, gandal...@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 19/12/2011 22:27:22 GMT Standard Time, c...@omen.com writes: This thing requires plenty of current to get started. My Tek CPS250 1.2 amp output (A+B parallel) only gets 7.5 volts. Now to scrounge something a bit bigger. - The 15 volts to pin 1 starts off needing to supply around 1.7 Amps, eventually falling to somewhere between 700 and 800 mA. Pin 4 always draws around 85 to 90 mA from its 5 volt supply. regards Nigel GM8PZR Nigel I trust that you are aware that some models of the FE-5680A only require the 15 volt/1.7Amp. supply. In fact connecting a 5 volt supply to the units that are programmable can cause damage ! Roy ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb I see the price has gone up for these
Ebay 300638681652 is more like it. Just add a 7805 to get your 5 volts. For that kind of price it's almost cheaper to buy than to pay for gas plus time for me to go to my storage unit and grab one (maybe that's a lesson for what I should even save!). In my intended application though, there is already +5 and +15 available. Peter On 12/20/2011 10:13 AM, Roy Phillips wrote: -- From: Rex r...@sonic.net Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 1:10 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb I see the price has gone up for these FWIW. I just hapened on this power supply in an ad. You might find a fixed voltage one somewhere cheaper, but the price seemed ok, so here it is for consideration... http://www.mpja.com/email/12-13-11.asp?r=284759s=2 Still need the 5 V somehow, so not a complete solution for the 5680A. On 12/19/2011 3:06 PM, gandal...@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 19/12/2011 22:27:22 GMT Standard Time, c...@omen.com writes: This thing requires plenty of current to get started. My Tek CPS250 1.2 amp output (A+B parallel) only gets 7.5 volts. Now to scrounge something a bit bigger. - The 15 volts to pin 1 starts off needing to supply around 1.7 Amps, eventually falling to somewhere between 700 and 800 mA. Pin 4 always draws around 85 to 90 mA from its 5 volt supply. regards Nigel GM8PZR Nigel I trust that you are aware that some models of the FE-5680A only require the 15 volt/1.7Amp. supply. In fact connecting a 5 volt supply to the units that are programmable can cause damage ! Roy ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1415 / Virus Database: 2108/4092 - Release Date: 12/20/11 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb I see the price has gone up for these
Mine requires the 5 volt supply at 340 ma. Are there nay manufacturer's instructions about mounting, ventilating, or heat sinking these units? My current thinking is to mount it on standoffs on the back of the chassis that houses my Thunderbolt. Perhaps I should place it where it can warm up Princess. (Notice the magnet on top of the oscillator.) On 12/20/2011 07:13 AM, Roy Phillips wrote: -- From: Rex r...@sonic.net Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 1:10 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb I see the price has gone up for these FWIW. I just hapened on this power supply in an ad. You might find a fixed voltage one somewhere cheaper, but the price seemed ok, so here it is for consideration... http://www.mpja.com/email/12-13-11.asp?r=284759s=2 Still need the 5 V somehow, so not a complete solution for the 5680A. On 12/19/2011 3:06 PM, gandal...@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 19/12/2011 22:27:22 GMT Standard Time, c...@omen.com writes: This thing requires plenty of current to get started. My Tek CPS250 1.2 amp output (A+B parallel) only gets 7.5 volts. Now to scrounge something a bit bigger. - The 15 volts to pin 1 starts off needing to supply around 1.7 Amps, eventually falling to somewhere between 700 and 800 mA. Pin 4 always draws around 85 to 90 mA from its 5 volt supply. regards Nigel GM8PZR Nigel I trust that you are aware that some models of the FE-5680A only require the 15 volt/1.7Amp. supply. In fact connecting a 5 volt supply to the units that are programmable can cause damage ! Roy ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 attachment: FE-CAT.JPG___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb I see the price has gone up for these
340mA seems really high - all the ones I've seen take about 90mA - and I would strongly recommend putting in on a heatsink, or at least bolting it directly to the chassis. In my experience, they don't actually malfunction when operated without one, but the housing gets very hot (and, presumably, the insides get hotter still) - after 24h running sitting on a foam mouse mat open to the air, the case hit about 59c - I can't help thinking that isn't going to be good for the long-term health of the unit. Regards, Pete On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 12:03 AM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com wrote: Mine requires the 5 volt supply at 340 ma. Are there nay manufacturer's instructions about mounting, ventilating, or heat sinking these units? My current thinking is to mount it on standoffs on the back of the chassis that houses my Thunderbolt. Perhaps I should place it where it can warm up Princess. (Notice the magnet on top of the oscillator.) On 12/20/2011 07:13 AM, Roy Phillips wrote: -- From: Rex r...@sonic.net Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 1:10 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb I see the price has gone up for these FWIW. I just hapened on this power supply in an ad. You might find a fixed voltage one somewhere cheaper, but the price seemed ok, so here it is for consideration... http://www.mpja.com/email/12-13-11.asp?r=284759s=2 Still need the 5 V somehow, so not a complete solution for the 5680A. On 12/19/2011 3:06 PM, gandal...@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 19/12/2011 22:27:22 GMT Standard Time, c...@omen.com writes: This thing requires plenty of current to get started. My Tek CPS250 1.2 amp output (A+B parallel) only gets 7.5 volts. Now to scrounge something a bit bigger. - The 15 volts to pin 1 starts off needing to supply around 1.7 Amps, eventually falling to somewhere between 700 and 800 mA. Pin 4 always draws around 85 to 90 mA from its 5 volt supply. regards Nigel GM8PZR Nigel I trust that you are aware that some models of the FE-5680A only require the 15 volt/1.7Amp. supply. In fact connecting a 5 volt supply to the units that are programmable can cause damage ! Roy ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb I see the price has gone up for these
Agreed 340mA seems too high, mine takes 87mA. There has been much comment on [time_nuts] about the temperature of these units varying from 'let 'em get hot' to 'must heatsink'. In my experience items that require a heatsink have a milled flat surface to mount to a sink, not a thin case that would only touch in places. Furthermore I didn't think fiberglass circuit board was famous for its heat conducting properties. No sign of any heat transfer compound either. So do I conclude they need a bit of cooling? I agree with you Pete and would really like to know what the makers say about all this! Best wishes, John. On 20 Dec 2011, at 16:22, Peter Bell wrote: 340mA seems really high - all the ones I've seen take about 90mA - and I would strongly recommend putting in on a heatsink, or at least bolting it directly to the chassis. In my experience, they don't actually malfunction when operated without one, but the housing gets very hot (and, presumably, the insides get hotter still) - after 24h running sitting on a foam mouse mat open to the air, the case hit about 59c - I can't help thinking that isn't going to be good for the long-term health of the unit. Regards, Pete On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 12:03 AM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com wrote: Mine requires the 5 volt supply at 340 ma. Are there nay manufacturer's instructions about mounting, ventilating, or heat sinking these units? My current thinking is to mount it on standoffs on the back of the chassis that houses my Thunderbolt. Perhaps I should place it where it can warm up Princess. (Notice the magnet on top of the oscillator.) On 12/20/2011 07:13 AM, Roy Phillips wrote: -- From: Rex r...@sonic.net Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 1:10 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb I see the price has gone up for these FWIW. I just hapened on this power supply in an ad. You might find a fixed voltage one somewhere cheaper, but the price seemed ok, so here it is for consideration... http://www.mpja.com/email/12-13-11.asp?r=284759s=2 Still need the 5 V somehow, so not a complete solution for the 5680A. On 12/19/2011 3:06 PM, gandal...@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 19/12/2011 22:27:22 GMT Standard Time, c...@omen.com writes: This thing requires plenty of current to get started. My Tek CPS250 1.2 amp output (A+B parallel) only gets 7.5 volts. Now to scrounge something a bit bigger. - The 15 volts to pin 1 starts off needing to supply around 1.7 Amps, eventually falling to somewhere between 700 and 800 mA. Pin 4 always draws around 85 to 90 mA from its 5 volt supply. regards Nigel GM8PZR Nigel I trust that you are aware that some models of the FE-5680A only require the 15 volt/1.7Amp. supply. In fact connecting a 5 volt supply to the units that are programmable can cause damage ! Roy ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb I see the price has gone up for these
A milled flat surface and/or thermal paste is not required for heat transfer, it just makes it better. There must be some removal of heat; consider that to reach thermal equilibrium the heat flow out of the unit must match the power absorbed. It seems that about 12 watts is going in, so eventually 12 watts must be flowing out if the temperature is to remain steady. I would not want mine to run at 60C, I would rather it be at a more reasonable 35-40C on the baseplate, just for the electronics. I am going to mount mine to an existing aluminum panel in my target unit using the provided mounting holes and be done with it. Peter On 12/20/2011 12:18 PM, John Howell wrote: Agreed 340mA seems too high, mine takes 87mA. There has been much comment on [time_nuts] about the temperature of these units varying from 'let 'em get hot' to 'must heatsink'. In my experience items that require a heatsink have a milled flat surface to mount to a sink, not a thin case that would only touch in places. Furthermore I didn't think fiberglass circuit board was famous for its heat conducting properties. No sign of any heat transfer compound either. So do I conclude they need a bit of cooling? I agree with you Pete and would really like to know what the makers say about all this! Best wishes, John. On 20 Dec 2011, at 16:22, Peter Bell wrote: 340mA seems really high - all the ones I've seen take about 90mA - and I would strongly recommend putting in on a heatsink, or at least bolting it directly to the chassis. In my experience, they don't actually malfunction when operated without one, but the housing gets very hot (and, presumably, the insides get hotter still) - after 24h running sitting on a foam mouse mat open to the air, the case hit about 59c - I can't help thinking that isn't going to be good for the long-term health of the unit. Regards, Pete On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 12:03 AM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com wrote: Mine requires the 5 volt supply at 340 ma. Are there nay manufacturer's instructions about mounting, ventilating, or heat sinking these units? My current thinking is to mount it on standoffs on the back of the chassis that houses my Thunderbolt. Perhaps I should place it where it can warm up Princess. (Notice the magnet on top of the oscillator.) On 12/20/2011 07:13 AM, Roy Phillips wrote: -- From: Rexr...@sonic.net Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 1:10 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb I see the price has gone up for these FWIW. I just hapened on this power supply in an ad. You might find a fixed voltage one somewhere cheaper, but the price seemed ok, so here it is for consideration... http://www.mpja.com/email/12-13-11.asp?r=284759s=2 Still need the 5 V somehow, so not a complete solution for the 5680A. On 12/19/2011 3:06 PM, gandal...@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 19/12/2011 22:27:22 GMT Standard Time, c...@omen.com writes: This thing requires plenty of current to get started. My Tek CPS250 1.2 amp output (A+B parallel) only gets 7.5 volts. Now to scrounge something a bit bigger. - The 15 volts to pin 1 starts off needing to supply around 1.7 Amps, eventually falling to somewhere between 700 and 800 mA. Pin 4 always draws around 85 to 90 mA from its 5 volt supply. regards Nigel GM8PZR Nigel I trust that you are aware that some models of the FE-5680A only require the 15 volt/1.7Amp. supply. In fact connecting a 5 volt supply to the units that are programmable can cause damage ! Roy ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb I see the price has gone up for these
I also got an FE5680A, what a deal. Thanks to earlier postings I had the correct pin out, info on the 1/16 hex key and the command set. It needs 5V on pin 4 to operate. After 24 hours mine ran 6 mHz low compared to my GPS-based 10 MHz. I opened the case by removing the 2 flat head screws near the connector and the 2 pan head screws in recesses in the center of the base plate. I noticed what looked like smoke residue from a blown part, as have others, but no sign of a bad part. The LPRO-101 has a flat surface and a thermal pad for heat transfer over the whole base. The FE-5680A injects heat into the base plate in the center and sinks it around the edges. Good magnetic shielding and thermal transfer may require using most of the 16 mounting holes. I found Termite 2.7 from CompuPhase worked to communicate with the FE-5680A in Windows. I set the COM port, 9600 baud, local echo, append nothing and hex view. I sent 0x2D040029 to get the offset. The 0x lets the program know the number is in hex. My offset was 0, same as others have mentioned. Possibly the FE-5680 was controlled externally to sync up the 1pps output to GPS using the set temporary offset command. I wonder if there's a status command, analogous to the lamp voltage test point on the LPRO-101. Bob -Original Message- From: Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 2:25 PM To: li...@lazygranch.com ; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb I see the price has gone up for these My 5680A arrived today. Mailman demanded a signature. This thing requires plenty of current to get started. My Tek CPS250 1.2 amp output (A+B parallel) only gets 7.5 volts. Now to scrounge something a bit bigger. -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb I see the price has gone up for these
Should get the 5 volts with the usual 3-legged fuse :-) ?? Don Rex FWIW. I just hapened on this power supply in an ad. You might find a fixed voltage one somewhere cheaper, but the price seemed ok, so here it is for consideration... http://www.mpja.com/email/12-13-11.asp?r=284759s=2 Still need the 5 V somehow, so not a complete solution for the 5680A. On 12/19/2011 3:06 PM, gandal...@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 19/12/2011 22:27:22 GMT Standard Time, c...@omen.com writes: This thing requires plenty of current to get started. My Tek CPS250 1.2 amp output (A+B parallel) only gets 7.5 volts. Now to scrounge something a bit bigger. - The 15 volts to pin 1 starts off needing to supply around 1.7 Amps, eventually falling to somewhere between 700 and 800 mA. Pin 4 always draws around 85 to 90 mA from its 5 volt supply. regards Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb I see the price has gone up for these
My 5680A arrived today. Mailman demanded a signature. This thing requires plenty of current to get started. My Tek CPS250 1.2 amp output (A+B parallel) only gets 7.5 volts. Now to scrounge something a bit bigger. -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb I see the price has gone up for these
In a message dated 19/12/2011 22:27:22 GMT Standard Time, c...@omen.com writes: This thing requires plenty of current to get started. My Tek CPS250 1.2 amp output (A+B parallel) only gets 7.5 volts. Now to scrounge something a bit bigger. - The 15 volts to pin 1 starts off needing to supply around 1.7 Amps, eventually falling to somewhere between 700 and 800 mA. Pin 4 always draws around 85 to 90 mA from its 5 volt supply. regards Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb I see the price has gone up for these
Got mine going with a 15 volt 3 amp supply from an old Toshiba. That and 5 volts. It took about 32 minutes to make lock. Before that it was cycling between about +75 and -200 Hz. The FE-5680A 10 MHz is now off by .002 Hz compared to the Thunderbolt. I placed a magnet on the case. It appears I can fine tune the frequency by adjusting the position and rotation of the magnet. Film at 11. -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb
There were some advertised for the equivalent of £32 without the OCXO (and free shipping). Seemed like a good deal so I bought two. Rob Kimberley -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of gandal...@aol.com Sent: 14 December 2011 19:56 To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb In a message dated 14/12/2011 19:46:56 GMT Standard Time, jleik...@leikhim.com writes: I have been watching this thread and may have missed something. My questions: What is the purpose of the outboard OCXO VECTRON 63.8976Mhz? What model number does this RB most closely resemble? --- No purpose other than a bit of gamesmanship. When first listed these auctions were categorised as New, but if you looked at the small print it was the throwaway oscillator and/or 9 pin connector that were new but the RB module itself was indicated as used. The module is just one variant of the FEI FE5680A, in this case the PN is 217400-30352-1 and the frequency can be adjusted over a small range using HEX strings that have previously been documented on this list, in order to set it accurately to 10MHz. regards Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb
On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 10:52 PM, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote: albertson.ch...@gmail.com said: The prime factors are 13, 3, 2, 2, 2, and lots more 2s There are also a couple of 5s in there. [~]$ factor 63897600 63897600: 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 5 5 13 Not fair. You added two zeros on the end and then got to add two more 2s and 5s. How about this: 638976: 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 13 There really is no reason to clock a DDS with a nice even number frequency. OK the even freq. makes the math easier but it's all done in software so easier does not matter. I'll bet there are some second order considerations in there. How about spurs? If your starting frequency is nice relative to your target frequency What is the target frequency? If you are building a radio or a signal generator you will tune around all over the band. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb
[~]$ factor 63897600 63897600: 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 5 5 13 Not fair. You added two zeros on the end and then got to add two more 2s and 5s. I converted 63.8976 MHz to Hz. What is the target frequency? If you are building a radio or a signal generator you will tune around all over the band. There are two ideas tangled up in here. I missed one the last try. Sorry for the confusion. Think of a DDS as a N bit register R, and a constant K. Each clock cycle, R = R+K The register has high bits and low bits. The high bits feed the ROM. The output frequency is Out = In * K/2^N The first quirk is that if the input frequency is not good, you can't get an exact hit on the output frequency. Usually, N is big enough so that the nearest available frequency is good enough. For example, suppose N is 20, your input frequency is 10 MHz, and you want 1 KHz out. A K of 104 produces 991.821 Hz. A K of 105 produces 1001.358 Hz. If your input frequency is 16.384 MHz, a K of 64 produces 1000.000 Hz. The other quirk is spurs. The spurs will be closer in if you need a bigger N. In that context, the bottom 0s of K effectively make N smaller. (I don't have any good examples.) If your application is tuning a general purpose radio, the input frequency probably doesn't matter much. What do radios do about spurs? If your application is a specific target frequency, a good input frequency will give a cleaner output frequency. One of these days, when I run out of other things to play with, I want to build a DDS in a FPGA. The idea is to do decimal addition rather than binary. That will turn the 10 MHz from a GPSDO into a good frequency for an audio signal generator. It will hit any integral Hz exactly. (Well, this is time-nuts so it's only as close as the accuracy of the input signal.) -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb
One of these days, when I run out of other things to play with, I want to ... Well said Hal. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb I see the price has gone up for these
On 14 December 2011 01:13, Frederick Bray fwb...@mminternet.com wrote: Anyone who is interested in buying these units should take a look at the completed listings and be guided accordingly when making an offer. I recently picked up a couple for ~ $35 each, including shipping. True the price may be going up, but it looks like you can still get them for under $40 with shipping if you don't mind waiting for the slow boat from China. For experimentation, that is still a good deal. (I must admit that I didn't need them, but want to try pairing them with a couple Thunderbolts.) I bought a couple off of someone who sold them on eBay, though it was not an ebay purchase. But he used god alful courier that wanting paying the import duties by bank transfer or cheque before they would deliver the goods. I thought I would be able to ring up with a Visa card and pay, but was told they could not take credit or debit cards over the phone. But I did get a couple for a pretty good deal. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb I see the price has gone up for these
Paying duty on foreign purchases is always a crap shoot. Often you don't get charged at all. Other times the item is held and you pony up the duty. I got an item through Fedex and they came after me two years later for the duty. I refused to pay because I couldn't even remember if I paid the duty when I got the item. UPS has their own customs house. Way more professional than Fedex. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb I see the price has gone up for these
Yeah. UPS has a Customs Broker... staffed by 600 pound gorillas. They succeeded in breaking my cast iron antenna base about 1/2 thick and weighing over 40 pounds. -John === Paying duty on foreign purchases is always a crap shoot. Often you don't get charged at all. Other times the item is held and you pony up the duty. I got an item through Fedex and they came after me two years later for the duty. I refused to pay because I couldn't even remember if I paid the duty when I got the item. UPS has their own customs house. Way more professional than Fedex. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb I see the price has gone up for these
Or the shipper didn't pack it well. UPS is very generous on insurance payments IF the shipper doesn't have a history of issues. The stores that use the custom foam scheme you see often on ebay were stores already nabbed by UPS for too many damage claims. As far as I know, the Customs House just does paperwork. Breaking stuff is left to the package handlers. Everything I ever got from China has been USPS. Slow boat from China is more than an expression. ;-) --Original Message-- From: J. Forster To: li...@lazygranch.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement ReplyTo: j...@quikus.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb I see the price has gone up for these Sent: Dec 14, 2011 9:00 AM Yeah. UPS has a Customs Broker... staffed by 600 pound gorillas. They succeeded in breaking my cast iron antenna base about 1/2 thick and weighing over 40 pounds. -John === Paying duty on foreign purchases is always a crap shoot. Often you don't get charged at all. Other times the item is held and you pony up the duty. I got an item through Fedex and they came after me two years later for the duty. I refused to pay because I couldn't even remember if I paid the duty when I got the item. UPS has their own customs house. Way more professional than Fedex. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb
I have been watching this thread and may have missed something. My questions: What is the purpose of the outboard OCXO VECTRON 63.8976Mhz? What model number does this RB most closely resemble? -- Joe Leikhim Leikhim and Associates Communications Consultants Oviedo, Florida www.Leikhim.com jleik...@leikhim.com 407-982-0446 Note to GMail Account users. Due to an abnormally high volume of spam originating from bogus GMail accounts, I have found it necessary to block certain GMail traffic. Please phone me if you believe your message was not received. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb
I would say that he has a gadzillion of the OCXO's, recognizes that the frequency is useless, and would rather give them away, generating a little synthetic good will, than scrap them. -Chuck Harris Joe Leikhim wrote: I have been watching this thread and may have missed something. My questions: What is the purpose of the outboard OCXO VECTRON 63.8976Mhz? What model number does this RB most closely resemble? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb
In a message dated 14/12/2011 19:46:56 GMT Standard Time, jleik...@leikhim.com writes: I have been watching this thread and may have missed something. My questions: What is the purpose of the outboard OCXO VECTRON 63.8976Mhz? What model number does this RB most closely resemble? --- No purpose other than a bit of gamesmanship. When first listed these auctions were categorised as New, but if you looked at the small print it was the throwaway oscillator and/or 9 pin connector that were new but the RB module itself was indicated as used. The module is just one variant of the FEI FE5680A, in this case the PN is 217400-30352-1 and the frequency can be adjusted over a small range using HEX strings that have previously been documented on this list, in order to set it accurately to 10MHz. regards Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb
So the OCXO and the 9 pin RS232 are not actually connected to the PC board? I am confused? On 12/14/2011 2:53 PM, Chuck Harris wrote: I would say that he has a gadzillion of the OCXO's, recognizes that the frequency is useless, and would rather give them away, generating a little synthetic good will, than scrap them. -Chuck Harris Joe Leikhim wrote: I have been watching this thread and may have missed something. My questions: What is the purpose of the outboard OCXO VECTRON 63.8976Mhz? What model number does this RB most closely resemble? -- Joe Leikhim Leikhim and Associates Communications Consultants Oviedo, Florida www.Leikhim.com jleik...@leikhim.com 407-982-0446 Note to GMail Account users. Due to an abnormally high volume of spam originating from bogus GMail accounts, I have found it necessary to block certain GMail traffic. Please phone me if you believe your message was not received. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb
In a message dated 14/12/2011 19:58:15 GMT Standard Time, jleik...@leikhim.com writes: So the OCXO and the 9 pin RS232 are not actually connected to the PC board? I am confused? -- Nope, just sitting on it for the sake of the photo, treat them as a freebie or as scrap, either or both is a reasonable assumption:-) Regards Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb
I would he rather recycle them there than send them to me to fill up landfill here. On 12/14/11, Chuck Harriscfhar...@erols.com wrote: I would say that he has a gadzillion of the OCXO's, recognizes that the frequency is useless, and would rather give them away, generating a little synthetic good will, than scrap them. -Chuck Harris Joe Leikhim wrote: I have been watching this thread and may have missed something. My questions: What is the purpose of the outboard OCXO VECTRON 63.8976Mhz? What model number does this RB most closely resemble? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb
no purpose at all. Just junk As to the close match sorry don't know On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:46 PM, Joe Leikhim jleik...@leikhim.com wrote: I have been watching this thread and may have missed something. My questions: What is the purpose of the outboard OCXO VECTRON 63.8976Mhz? What model number does this RB most closely resemble? -- Joe Leikhim Leikhim and Associates Communications Consultants Oviedo, Florida www.Leikhim.com jleik...@leikhim.com 407-982-0446 Note to GMail Account users. Due to an abnormally high volume of spam originating from bogus GMail accounts, I have found it necessary to block certain GMail traffic. Please phone me if you believe your message was not received. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb
On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:46 AM, Joe Leikhim jleik...@leikhim.com wrote: I have been watching this thread and may have missed something. My questions: What is the purpose of the outboard OCXO VECTRON 63.8976Mhz? What model number does this RB most closely resemble? I can understand one seller just tossing in a useless 63.8976Mhz part but notice the EVERY seler is tossing in the same 63.8976Mhz part. This tells me tha one of two things is going on: (1) threre really is only one seller and he is using multiple eBay acounts or (2) there is one supplier who is provides these kits in bulk to several people who then resell the kits on ebay. The people who are selling may not even know the 63.8976Mhz part is useless. Also notice the photo that shows my lab and has the stack of test equipment is exactly the same photo in a dozen eBay accounts. My guess about all of this: One person is selling a get rich quick scheme to others. He sets you up then sells you bulk items with pre-written English language descriptions and photo. Likely he is also the person who buys the old cell towers and dismantles the parts Why else are all the eBay stores so identical? -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb
Sure its one seller or his family. Notice the stratum of pricing and such. What they are saving is the effort to remove the useless oscillator. Most likely they get the board cut off already. Or could it be? The boards cut that way because the gold fingers were pulled off for recovery. Its all about min effort for max reward. Margin I think. On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.comwrote: On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:46 AM, Joe Leikhim jleik...@leikhim.com wrote: I have been watching this thread and may have missed something. My questions: What is the purpose of the outboard OCXO VECTRON 63.8976Mhz? What model number does this RB most closely resemble? I can understand one seller just tossing in a useless 63.8976Mhz part but notice the EVERY seler is tossing in the same 63.8976Mhz part. This tells me tha one of two things is going on: (1) threre really is only one seller and he is using multiple eBay acounts or (2) there is one supplier who is provides these kits in bulk to several people who then resell the kits on ebay. The people who are selling may not even know the 63.8976Mhz part is useless. Also notice the photo that shows my lab and has the stack of test equipment is exactly the same photo in a dozen eBay accounts. My guess about all of this: One person is selling a get rich quick scheme to others. He sets you up then sells you bulk items with pre-written English language descriptions and photo. Likely he is also the person who buys the old cell towers and dismantles the parts Why else are all the eBay stores so identical? -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb
So the only item of interest is the Rb module itself? Brings back memories of strange merchandise at Burnstein-Applebee. On 12/14/2011 12:24 PM, paul swed wrote: Sure its one seller or his family. Notice the stratum of pricing and such. What they are saving is the effort to remove the useless oscillator. Most likely they get the board cut off already. Or could it be? The boards cut that way because the gold fingers were pulled off for recovery. Its all about min effort for max reward. Margin I think. On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.comwrote: On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:46 AM, Joe Leikhimjleik...@leikhim.com wrote: I have been watching this thread and may have missed something. My questions: What is the purpose of the outboard OCXO VECTRON 63.8976Mhz? What model number does this RB most closely resemble? I can understand one seller just tossing in a useless 63.8976Mhz part but notice the EVERY seler is tossing in the same 63.8976Mhz part. This tells me tha one of two things is going on: (1) threre really is only one seller and he is using multiple eBay acounts or (2) there is one supplier who is provides these kits in bulk to several people who then resell the kits on ebay. The people who are selling may not even know the 63.8976Mhz part is useless. Also notice the photo that shows my lab and has the stack of test equipment is exactly the same photo in a dozen eBay accounts. My guess about all of this: One person is selling a get rich quick scheme to others. He sets you up then sells you bulk items with pre-written English language descriptions and photo. Likely he is also the person who buys the old cell towers and dismantles the parts Why else are all the eBay stores so identical? -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb
heck yes and its pretty good deal from what the folks on the list say. I just missed the $38 special with shipping Regards Paul WB8TSL On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 3:48 PM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.comwrote: So the only item of interest is the Rb module itself? Brings back memories of strange merchandise at Burnstein-Applebee. On 12/14/2011 12:24 PM, paul swed wrote: Sure its one seller or his family. Notice the stratum of pricing and such. What they are saving is the effort to remove the useless oscillator. Most likely they get the board cut off already. Or could it be? The boards cut that way because the gold fingers were pulled off for recovery. Its all about min effort for max reward. Margin I think. On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com**wrote: On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:46 AM, Joe Leikhimjleik...@leikhim.com wrote: I have been watching this thread and may have missed something. My questions: What is the purpose of the outboard OCXO VECTRON 63.8976Mhz? What model number does this RB most closely resemble? I can understand one seller just tossing in a useless 63.8976Mhz part but notice the EVERY seler is tossing in the same 63.8976Mhz part. This tells me tha one of two things is going on: (1) threre really is only one seller and he is using multiple eBay acounts or (2) there is one supplier who is provides these kits in bulk to several people who then resell the kits on ebay. The people who are selling may not even know the 63.8976Mhz part is useless. Also notice the photo that shows my lab and has the stack of test equipment is exactly the same photo in a dozen eBay accounts. My guess about all of this: One person is selling a get rich quick scheme to others. He sets you up then sells you bulk items with pre-written English language descriptions and photo. Likely he is also the person who buys the old cell towers and dismantles the parts Why else are all the eBay stores so identical? -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/**mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb
I'd agree. If you google the frequency there is a lot of surplus out there and unless you building your own cell system I can't think of any use .. yet :-) On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:53 AM, Chuck Harris cfhar...@erols.com wrote: I would say that he has a gadzillion of the OCXO's, recognizes that the frequency is useless, and would rather give them away, generating a little synthetic good will, than scrap them. -Chuck Harris Joe Leikhim wrote: I have been watching this thread and may have missed something. My questions: What is the purpose of the outboard OCXO VECTRON 63.8976Mhz? What model number does this RB most closely resemble? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb
On 12/14/11 12:15 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:46 AM, Joe Leikhimjleik...@leikhim.com wrote: I have been watching this thread and may have missed something. My questions: What is the purpose of the outboard OCXO VECTRON 63.8976Mhz? What model number does this RB most closely resemble? I can understand one seller just tossing in a useless 63.8976Mhz part but notice the EVERY seler is tossing in the same 63.8976Mhz part. This tells me tha one of two things is going on: (1) threre really is only one seller and he is using multiple eBay acounts or (2) there is one supplier who is provides these kits in bulk to several people who then resell the kits on ebay. The people who are selling may not even know the 63.8976Mhz part is useless. Also notice the photo that shows my lab and has the stack of test equipment is exactly the same photo in a dozen eBay accounts. My guess about all of this: One person is selling a get rich quick scheme to others. He sets you up then sells you bulk items with pre-written English language descriptions and photo. Likely he is also the person who buys the old cell towers and dismantles the parts Why else are all the eBay stores so identical? Not necessarily a get rich quick. Just the usual wholesale/retail distinction. The actual source isn't interested in dealing with hundreds of individual customers at least some of which will have issues. There may also be some sort of gaming the eBay system going on. Maybe small sellers get a discount on seller fees or some such.. I don't know enough about how eBay works to really comment. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb
I'm begin getting curious... having already received that OCXO, and with a 2nd unit arriving... I've googled the frequency and there are about a zillion cristals and oscillators for that frequency from a ton of different manufacturers, and seems that the frequency is patented: US patent 6282184 (well, I suppose that not exactly the frequency is what it is patented, but...): The digitizing rate of the A-D converter 41 preferably set for this example to 63.8976 MHz is carefully selected, as described in detail below, to eliminate the need for additional expensive and complex signal filtering and shielding that would otherwise be required in the RX channelizer banks 7, 8, 9 for simultaneously processing the digitized signal received by the A-D converter 41 at the common digitizing rate based on their respective CDMA, TDMA and GSM requirements So... this seems to be the magic about this frequency (and the reason that these sellers has enough of them for sameless give them away) Regards, Javier El 14/12/2011 22:41, Pete Lancashire escribió: I'd agree. If you google the frequency there is a lot of surplus out there and unless you building your own cell system I can't think of any use .. yet :-) On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:53 AM, Chuck Harriscfhar...@erols.com wrote: I would say that he has a gadzillion of the OCXO's, recognizes that the frequency is useless, and would rather give them away, generating a little synthetic good will, than scrap them. -Chuck Harris Joe Leikhim wrote: I have been watching this thread and may have missed something. My questions: What is the purpose of the outboard OCXO VECTRON 63.8976Mhz? What model number does this RB most closely resemble? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb
Could be but as a timenut not real magical to me either. Regards Paul On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Javier Herrero jherr...@hvsistemas.eswrote: I'm begin getting curious... having already received that OCXO, and with a 2nd unit arriving... I've googled the frequency and there are about a zillion cristals and oscillators for that frequency from a ton of different manufacturers, and seems that the frequency is patented: US patent 6282184 (well, I suppose that not exactly the frequency is what it is patented, but...): The digitizing rate of the A-D converter 41 preferably set for this example to 63.8976 MHz is carefully selected, as described in detail below, to eliminate the need for additional expensive and complex signal filtering and shielding that would otherwise be required in the RX channelizer banks 7, 8, 9 for simultaneously processing the digitized signal received by the A-D converter 41 at the common digitizing rate based on their respective CDMA, TDMA and GSM requirements So... this seems to be the magic about this frequency (and the reason that these sellers has enough of them for sameless give them away) Regards, Javier El 14/12/2011 22:41, Pete Lancashire escribió: I'd agree. If you google the frequency there is a lot of surplus out there and unless you building your own cell system I can't think of any use .. yet :-) On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:53 AM, Chuck Harriscfhar...@erols.com wrote: I would say that he has a gadzillion of the OCXO's, recognizes that the frequency is useless, and would rather give them away, generating a little synthetic good will, than scrap them. -Chuck Harris Joe Leikhim wrote: I have been watching this thread and may have missed something. My questions: What is the purpose of the outboard OCXO VECTRON 63.8976Mhz? What model number does this RB most closely resemble? __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/**mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb
The 63.8976MHz frequency seems to be related to the OFDM frame of the WiMAX standard that has a window of 62400 bytes and the 63.8976MHz can time WiMAX BaseStations with only powers-of-2 dividers. On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:24 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Could be but as a timenut not real magical to me either. Regards Paul On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Javier Herrero jherr...@hvsistemas.es wrote: I'm begin getting curious... having already received that OCXO, and with a 2nd unit arriving... I've googled the frequency and there are about a zillion cristals and oscillators for that frequency from a ton of different manufacturers, and seems that the frequency is patented: US patent 6282184 (well, I suppose that not exactly the frequency is what it is patented, but...): The digitizing rate of the A-D converter 41 preferably set for this example to 63.8976 MHz is carefully selected, as described in detail below, to eliminate the need for additional expensive and complex signal filtering and shielding that would otherwise be required in the RX channelizer banks 7, 8, 9 for simultaneously processing the digitized signal received by the A-D converter 41 at the common digitizing rate based on their respective CDMA, TDMA and GSM requirements So... this seems to be the magic about this frequency (and the reason that these sellers has enough of them for sameless give them away) Regards, Javier El 14/12/2011 22:41, Pete Lancashire escribió: I'd agree. If you google the frequency there is a lot of surplus out there and unless you building your own cell system I can't think of any use .. yet :-) On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:53 AM, Chuck Harriscfhar...@erols.com wrote: I would say that he has a gadzillion of the OCXO's, recognizes that the frequency is useless, and would rather give them away, generating a little synthetic good will, than scrap them. -Chuck Harris Joe Leikhim wrote: I have been watching this thread and may have missed something. My questions: What is the purpose of the outboard OCXO VECTRON 63.8976Mhz? What model number does this RB most closely resemble? __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/**mailman/listinfo/time-nuts https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nuts https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nuts https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb
I don't think the strange oscillator is part of the Rb board. I have a full board from a purchase a number of years back. There are no gold fingers; it has a big square multi-pin connector. The board is 20 inches long and has only a few interfacing chips on it and a LED. I'd say the board is cut just as the most expedient way to get something small enough to practically ship and store. About 2/3 of the board had heavy plating on both sides as a heatsink, so that was one of the functions it performed. On 12/14/2011 12:24 PM, paul swed wrote: Sure its one seller or his family. Notice the stratum of pricing and such. What they are saving is the effort to remove the useless oscillator. Most likely they get the board cut off already. Or could it be? The boards cut that way because the gold fingers were pulled off for recovery. Its all about min effort for max reward. Margin I think. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb
I use to have a reference to frequencies used by the different cell systems. That's my call .. and I can't think of another industry that just like the Thunderbolts that when it does a refresh or a fix from a design oh-shit dumps so many of the same thing. I just read US Patent 6,282,184 Common Digitizing Rate for Multiple Air Interfaces for Generic Cell Sites in Cellular Radio .. it mentions it.as a base frequency (11.37) -pete On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:44 PM, Azelio Boriani azelio.bori...@screen.it wrote: The 63.8976MHz frequency seems to be related to the OFDM frame of the WiMAX standard that has a window of 62400 bytes and the 63.8976MHz can time WiMAX BaseStations with only powers-of-2 dividers. On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:24 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Could be but as a timenut not real magical to me either. Regards Paul On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Javier Herrero jherr...@hvsistemas.es wrote: I'm begin getting curious... having already received that OCXO, and with a 2nd unit arriving... I've googled the frequency and there are about a zillion cristals and oscillators for that frequency from a ton of different manufacturers, and seems that the frequency is patented: US patent 6282184 (well, I suppose that not exactly the frequency is what it is patented, but...): The digitizing rate of the A-D converter 41 preferably set for this example to 63.8976 MHz is carefully selected, as described in detail below, to eliminate the need for additional expensive and complex signal filtering and shielding that would otherwise be required in the RX channelizer banks 7, 8, 9 for simultaneously processing the digitized signal received by the A-D converter 41 at the common digitizing rate based on their respective CDMA, TDMA and GSM requirements So... this seems to be the magic about this frequency (and the reason that these sellers has enough of them for sameless give them away) Regards, Javier El 14/12/2011 22:41, Pete Lancashire escribió: I'd agree. If you google the frequency there is a lot of surplus out there and unless you building your own cell system I can't think of any use .. yet :-) On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:53 AM, Chuck Harriscfhar...@erols.com wrote: I would say that he has a gadzillion of the OCXO's, recognizes that the frequency is useless, and would rather give them away, generating a little synthetic good will, than scrap them. -Chuck Harris Joe Leikhim wrote: I have been watching this thread and may have missed something. My questions: What is the purpose of the outboard OCXO VECTRON 63.8976Mhz? What model number does this RB most closely resemble? __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/**mailman/listinfo/time-nuts https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nuts https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nuts https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb
Looks to me like 63.8976mhz (63,897,600hz) is divisible by two. Using a counter to make a clock distribution system etc. With that in mind i could use this in all sorts of projects. Steve On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 7:02 PM, Pete Lancashire p...@petelancashire.comwrote: I use to have a reference to frequencies used by the different cell systems. That's my call .. and I can't think of another industry that just like the Thunderbolts that when it does a refresh or a fix from a design oh-shit dumps so many of the same thing. I just read US Patent 6,282,184 Common Digitizing Rate for Multiple Air Interfaces for Generic Cell Sites in Cellular Radio .. it mentions it.as a base frequency (11.37) -pete On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:44 PM, Azelio Boriani azelio.bori...@screen.it wrote: The 63.8976MHz frequency seems to be related to the OFDM frame of the WiMAX standard that has a window of 62400 bytes and the 63.8976MHz can time WiMAX BaseStations with only powers-of-2 dividers. On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:24 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Could be but as a timenut not real magical to me either. Regards Paul On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Javier Herrero jherr...@hvsistemas.es wrote: I'm begin getting curious... having already received that OCXO, and with a 2nd unit arriving... I've googled the frequency and there are about a zillion cristals and oscillators for that frequency from a ton of different manufacturers, and seems that the frequency is patented: US patent 6282184 (well, I suppose that not exactly the frequency is what it is patented, but...): The digitizing rate of the A-D converter 41 preferably set for this example to 63.8976 MHz is carefully selected, as described in detail below, to eliminate the need for additional expensive and complex signal filtering and shielding that would otherwise be required in the RX channelizer banks 7, 8, 9 for simultaneously processing the digitized signal received by the A-D converter 41 at the common digitizing rate based on their respective CDMA, TDMA and GSM requirements So... this seems to be the magic about this frequency (and the reason that these sellers has enough of them for sameless give them away) Regards, Javier El 14/12/2011 22:41, Pete Lancashire escribió: I'd agree. If you google the frequency there is a lot of surplus out there and unless you building your own cell system I can't think of any use .. yet :-) On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:53 AM, Chuck Harriscfhar...@erols.com wrote: I would say that he has a gadzillion of the OCXO's, recognizes that the frequency is useless, and would rather give them away, generating a little synthetic good will, than scrap them. -Chuck Harris Joe Leikhim wrote: I have been watching this thread and may have missed something. My questions: What is the purpose of the outboard OCXO VECTRON 63.8976Mhz? What model number does this RB most closely resemble? __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/**mailman/listinfo/time-nuts https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nuts https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nuts https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb
On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Rex r...@sonic.net wrote: I don't think the strange oscillator is part of the Rb board. That's correct. The OCXO is a brand new part that is thrown in and has nothing to do with the board the Rb is on. Same for the DE-9 connector. I can use the connector but the OCXO is not useful to me at all. I did wire it up though and my counter verified what the sticker says. 3.3 volts in according to the data sheet in the auction listing, however the data sheet is for a different part. Close enough, I guess. -Bob I have a full board from a purchase a number of years back. There are no gold fingers; it has a big square multi-pin connector. The board is 20 inches long and has only a few interfacing chips on it and a LED. I'd say the board is cut just as the most expedient way to get something small enough to practically ship and store. About 2/3 of the board had heavy plating on both sides as a heatsink, so that was one of the functions it performed. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb
It's exactly 52 times the 1.2288MHz reference that IS95/CDMA2K uses - this may be a coincidence, but I somehow doubt it. Regards, Pete On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 3:46 AM, Joe Leikhim jleik...@leikhim.com wrote: I have been watching this thread and may have missed something. My questions: What is the purpose of the outboard OCXO VECTRON 63.8976Mhz? What model number does this RB most closely resemble? -- Joe Leikhim Leikhim and Associates Communications Consultants Oviedo, Florida www.Leikhim.com jleik...@leikhim.com 407-982-0446 Note to GMail Account users. Due to an abnormally high volume of spam originating from bogus GMail accounts, I have found it necessary to block certain GMail traffic. Please phone me if you believe your message was not received. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb
On 12/14/2011 5:20 PM, Steve . wrote: Looks to me like 63.8976mhz (63,897,600hz) is divisible by two. Using a counter to make a clock distribution system etc. With that in mind i could use this in all sorts of projects. Steve Hmm... 63897600 = 0x3CF. Pretty clean hex number with those low-order zeros. Maybe that's what you were getting at. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb
On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 5:20 PM, Steve . iteratio...@gmail.com wrote: Looks to me like 63.8976mhz (63,897,600hz) is divisible by two. Using a counter to make a clock distribution system etc. With that in mind i could use this in all sorts of projects. The prime factors are 13, 3, 2, 2, 2, and lots more 2s So you can divide this by 2, 4, 8, 16 and so on and also by 3 and 13. I always look at the prime factors when I see and oddball number like this. (There are web sites to help factor numbers) I have one of these on order. I'm sure it will be used one day to clock a DDS chip. There really is no reason to clock a DDS with a nice even number frequency. OK the even freq. makes the math easier but it's all done in software so easier does not matter. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb
albertson.ch...@gmail.com said: The prime factors are 13, 3, 2, 2, 2, and lots more 2s There are also a couple of 5s in there. [~]$ factor 63897600 63897600: 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 5 5 13 There really is no reason to clock a DDS with a nice even number frequency. OK the even freq. makes the math easier but it's all done in software so easier does not matter. I'll bet there are some second order considerations in there. How about spurs? If your starting frequency is nice relative to your target frequency, the spurs will be smaller and/or farther away. -- bell.pe...@gmail.com said: It's exactly 52 times the 1.2288MHz reference that IS95/CDMA2K uses - this may be a coincidence, but I somehow doubt it. DDS calculations get (much) easier if you have the right clock frequency. I'm not enough of a wizard in that area to guess why they want that number. -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb
Yup. Nice binary number. jut like those old school crystals we like to see (4.096, 8.192...etc) dare i mention 32.768 khz... ouch ;) Steve On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 10:03 PM, Rex r...@sonic.net wrote: On 12/14/2011 5:20 PM, Steve . wrote: Looks to me like 63.8976mhz (63,897,600hz) is divisible by two. Using a counter to make a clock distribution system etc. With that in mind i could use this in all sorts of projects. Steve Hmm... 63897600 = 0x3CF. Pretty clean hex number with those low-order zeros. Maybe that's what you were getting at. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb I see the price has gone up for these
I guess they figured out they had some value. Such is life. Regards Paul WB8TSL/1 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb I see the price has gone up for these
Make an offer and see what happens. On 12/13/11, paul swedpaulsw...@gmail.com wrote: I guess they figured out they had some value. Such is life. Regards Paul WB8TSL/1 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- [1]time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to [2]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. References 1. mailto:time-nuts@febo.com 2. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb I see the price has gone up for these
Anyone who is interested in buying these units should take a look at the completed listings and be guided accordingly when making an offer. I recently picked up a couple for ~ $35 each, including shipping. True the price may be going up, but it looks like you can still get them for under $40 with shipping if you don't mind waiting for the slow boat from China. For experimentation, that is still a good deal. (I must admit that I didn't need them, but want to try pairing them with a couple Thunderbolts.) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Connections and Features
In a message dated 12/12/2011 04:00:17 GMT Standard Time, smit...@c-c-i.com writes: But you can query the unit and it will reply with the programmed offset value. If you get it wrong, it won't accept the programmed value. Just query it with: 2d 04 00 29 to verify the offset value. - Yes I know, that's in the manual anyway, but if you do get it wrong and there's no response it might not be immediately obvious where the problem lies, wrong software, wrong settings, or wrong connection for example, so was just trying to offer some quick start up information for anyone who might need it. regards Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Connections and Features
Realterm is a good one too: http://realterm.sourceforge.net/ Cutecom works perfectly: http://cutecom.sourceforge.net/ inline: image001.gif___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Are they that good?
Bob Camp wrote: Hi If you dig into the circuit, the resolution of the DDS is indeed 7x10^-13 per LSB. Bob Thanks for the confirmation. On Dec 9, 2011, at 9:51 PM, Bob Smither wrote: Bob Smither wrote: snip My documentation states that the full range of adjustment is: 7f ff ff ff = +383 Hz 80 00 00 00 = -383 Hz This scale factor is clearly wrong - using it and applying an appropriate correction changes the frequency way too much. From: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.time.nuts/9473/match=fe+5680+pin+outs (thanks Jose!) a better estimate is 14 / Hz. Using data after 20 hours: http://www.c-c-i.com/node/155 the estimated frequency offset is 1.36E-3 Hz. Using the above scale factor gives a correction of -190 counts. Here is the command I used to (temporarily) program the new offset: 2e 09 00 27 ff ff ff 42 bd (the bd is the exclusive-or checksum of the offset) Now I wait ... After 13 hours with the above correction the offset appeared to be ~ +3E-4 Hz or 3E-11. This is close to the expected aging of the unit (2E-11 / day). A plot showing the reduced drift from the offset correction of -190 is here: http://c-c-i.com/node/156 Adding a correction for the +3E-4 Hz to the previous correction gives a new offset of -229 counts. Shortly after I got this set up, a power line glitch reset things so I took the opportunity to adjust the time interval to ~ 100 usec. I then applied the -229 counts as: 2e 09 00 27 ff ff ff 1b e4 (the e4 is the checksum) and starting measuring again. It looks like this is chasing the aging of the unit. More later. -- Bob Smither smit...@c-c-i.com == A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. -- Second amendment to the Constitution of the united States == Circuit Concepts, Inc.281-331-2744 attachment: smither.vcf___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Connections and Features
Like many of you, I have seen these advertised on Ebay at good prices. Also, like many of you, I am confused about the 'programmability' and connections. Many of them advertise these connections:- PIN 1: INPUT +15V to +18V PIN 2: GROUND PIN 3: LOCK/UNLOCK (high = unlock) PIN 4: INPUT +5V PIN 5: GROUND PIN 7: OUTPUT ( 10MHz sinewave ) Many of them also say Digitally programmable to 1x10-13, with the above connections. (Many of the sites seem to have the same descriptive text.) On questioning one of them about how the programming was done, they replied Not with this model; only with the more expensive one he sells ! But from what I read in some of the time-nuts contributions, there is sometimes (?) or often (?) also these connections:- Pin 6 1 pps out Pin 8 RS-232 Rx (into rubidium) Pin 9 RS-232 Tx (from rubidium) Can anyone tell me if they ALL have the MAX level shifter/driver chip fitted, even though it may not be connected to the connector ? I don't want full programmability, just 10 MHz frequency correction. Perhaps I just have to take pot luck when I buy ? What are my chances of getting one with the 'hidden' RS232 and 1PPS output ? All advice appreciated. Thanks. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Connections and Features
alex mclaggan wrote: Like many of you, I have seen these advertised on Ebay at good prices. Also, like many of you, I am confused about the 'programmability' and connections. Many of them advertise these connections:- PIN 1: INPUT +15V to +18V PIN 2: GROUND PIN 3: LOCK/UNLOCK (high = unlock) PIN 4: INPUT +5V PIN 5: GROUND PIN 7: OUTPUT ( 10MHz sinewave ) Many of them also say Digitally programmable to 1x10-13, with the above connections. (Many of the sites seem to have the same descriptive text.) On questioning one of them about how the programming was done, they replied Not with this model; only with the more expensive one he sells ! But from what I read in some of the time-nuts contributions, there is sometimes (?) or often (?) also these connections:- Pin 6 1 pps out Pin 8 RS-232 Rx (into rubidium) Pin 9 RS-232 Tx (from rubidium) Can anyone tell me if they ALL have the MAX level shifter/driver chip fitted, even though it may not be connected to the connector ? I don't want full programmability, just 10 MHz frequency correction. Perhaps I just have to take pot luck when I buy ? What are my chances of getting one with the 'hidden' RS232 and 1PPS output ? For what it is worth, this unit: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=270870764984 appears identical to the one I purchased four weeks ago. Same seller, same cut off PCB, same extras thrown in, same price. My unit has the pins and functions you list above (including the 1PPS and the rs-232 connections. I have been able to adjust the frequency in a restricted range around the nominal 10MHz. The results from my experiments can be seen here: http://c-c-i.com/image/tid/4 Bob S. attachment: smither.vcf___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Connections and Features
Sorry I ever started this. In the past the FE5680's started out with a 50.255 MHz XTAL, some time in the 2002 2003 timeframe they switched to 60 MHz using a DDS in the loop. All of these units can only be stepped in 7 E-13 steps limited by the resolution of the DDS. Having followed all the listings on this subject is it safe to assume that 99% of the units sold in the $ 40 range are identical in that respect. At prior times there was and still is a unit available that from the 50.255 drives a DDS and a programmable output is available at a premium price. All seem to be above $ 100. Claims that the 60 MHz units can be set in 1 E-13 is bogus and misleading. Maybe if you dither the input, but since the loop is most likely digital I do not know what that will do. Accept 7 E -13 or do as I will do, use the C field. Pin 8 and 9 are RS 232. Bert Kehren In a message dated 12/11/2011 5:46:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, snapp...@gmail.com writes: Like many of you, I have seen these advertised on Ebay at good prices. Also, like many of you, I am confused about the 'programmability' and connections. Many of them advertise these connections:- PIN 1: INPUT +15V to +18V PIN 2: GROUND PIN 3: LOCK/UNLOCK (high = unlock) PIN 4: INPUT +5V PIN 5: GROUND PIN 7: OUTPUT ( 10MHz sinewave ) Many of them also say Digitally programmable to 1x10-13, with the above connections. (Many of the sites seem to have the same descriptive text.) On questioning one of them about how the programming was done, they replied Not with this model; only with the more expensive one he sells ! But from what I read in some of the time-nuts contributions, there is sometimes (?) or often (?) also these connections:- Pin 6 1 pps out Pin 8 RS-232 Rx (into rubidium) Pin 9 RS-232 Tx (from rubidium) Can anyone tell me if they ALL have the MAX level shifter/driver chip fitted, even though it may not be connected to the connector ? I don't want full programmability, just 10 MHz frequency correction. Perhaps I just have to take pot luck when I buy ? What are my chances of getting one with the 'hidden' RS232 and 1PPS output ? All advice appreciated. Thanks. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Connections and Features
In a message dated 11/12/2011 23:01:14 GMT Standard Time, smit...@c-c-i.com writes: Can anyone tell me if they ALL have the MAX level shifter/driver chip fitted, even though it may not be connected to the connector ? I don't want full programmability, just 10 MHz frequency correction. Perhaps I just have to take pot luck when I buy ? What are my chances of getting one with the 'hidden' RS232 and 1PPS output ? For what it is worth, this unit: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=270870764984 appears identical to the one I purchased four weeks ago. Same seller, same cut off PCB, same extras thrown in, same price. --- The FEI part number you are looking for is 217400-30352-1, it is often clearly visible in the auction photos and can be seen in at least one of the photos in the above link. I'm sure all will do what you ask but the biggest problem I found was actually getting to talk to the unit, it doesn't give you any feedback if you get it wrong, just sits there looking at you. Data connections are as per the manual, pin 8 of the 9 pin connector on the module goes to pin 3 of the 9 pin RS232 port at the PC, and pin 9 at the module goes to pin 2 at the PC. Add the ground connection and that's it. You will need some software to send the HEX 32 bit signed integer values plus checksum to the unit. Programs such as Hyperterminal aren't much help here but I found the RS232 Hex Com Tool from Virtual Integrated Design to be ideal. A demo version can be downloaded from _http://www.viddata.com/_ (http://www.viddata.com/) The demo version times out after 5 minutes but can be restarted immediately so that isn't really a problem. Settings are 9600 Baud, No Parity, 8 Data Bits, 1 Stop Bit, No Flow Control. There's plenty of utilities online to convert decimal to HEX, I used.. _http://www.binaryhexconverter.com/decimal-to-hex-converter_ (http://www.binaryhexconverter.com/decimal-to-hex-converter) The checksum is just the XOR of the four 8 bit words and I used Windows calculator in programming mode for this, not sure if this is relevant to all calculator versions but it is in Win7. My unit came with an offset of zero, and I'm guessing most others will too as they probably weren't ever adjusted in use. I followed Jose Camara's advice for initial offset testing, and used offset values of +4095 and -4096 to calibrate the frequency adjustment range with the zero offset as a confidence check. The commands to send these offsets, without storing them, plus the immediate effects they had for me, are as follows.. +4095 -- 2E 09 00 27 00 00 0F FF F0 -- 10.000,000,023,00 MHz approx -- 2E 09 00 27 00 00 00 00 00 -- 9.999,999,995,00 MHz approx -4096 -- 2E 09 00 27 FF FF F0 00 F0 -- 9.999,999,967,00 MHz approx Gaps in the command string are for clarity, and not needed when sending, and all marked as approx because I was just looking for ballpark figures and didn't wait too long for them to settle. From these results it was easy enough to calculate an initial adjustment with corresponding offset,that would get me close to 10MHz, followed by a further correction and offset that got me to 10.000,000,000,1 MHz, give or take all sorts of variables, including the phase of the moon on the next Thursday followingish:-) Which I decided wasn't too bad for a first try, and close enough anyway to use the adjust and store command for the same value:-) Regards Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Connections and Features
gandal...@aol.com wrote: snip The FEI part number you are looking for is 217400-30352-1, it is often clearly visible in the auction photos and can be seen in at least one of the photos in the above link. I'm sure all will do what you ask but the biggest problem I found was actually getting to talk to the unit, it doesn't give you any feedback if you get it wrong, just sits there looking at you. But you can query the unit and it will reply with the programmed offset value. If you get it wrong, it won't accept the programmed value. Just query it with: 2d 04 00 29 to verify the offset value. Data connections are as per the manual, pin 8 of the 9 pin connector on the module goes to pin 3 of the 9 pin RS232 port at the PC, and pin 9 at the module goes to pin 2 at the PC. Add the ground connection and that's it. You will need some software to send the HEX 32 bit signed integer values plus checksum to the unit. Programs such as Hyperterminal aren't much help here but I found the RS232 Hex Com Tool from Virtual Integrated Design to be ideal. Cutecom works perfectly: http://cutecom.sourceforge.net/ -- = Bob Smither, PhD Circuit Concepts, Inc. The purpose of government is to rein in the rights of the people. -- Bill Clinton, President of the United States smit...@c-c-i.comhttp://www.C-C-I.Com281-331-2744 = attachment: smither.vcf___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Are they that good?
Hi If you dig into the circuit, the resolution of the DDS is indeed 7x10^-13 per LSB. Bob On Dec 9, 2011, at 9:51 PM, Bob Smither wrote: Bob Smither wrote: snip My documentation states that the full range of adjustment is: 7f ff ff ff = +383 Hz 80 00 00 00 = -383 Hz This scale factor is clearly wrong - using it and applying an appropriate correction changes the frequency way too much. From: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.time.nuts/9473/match=fe+5680+pin+outs (thanks Jose!) a better estimate is 14 / Hz. Using data after 20 hours: http://www.c-c-i.com/node/155 the estimated frequency offset is 1.36E-3 Hz. Using the above scale factor gives a correction of -190 counts. Here is the command I used to (temporarily) program the new offset: 2e 09 00 27 ff ff ff 42 bd (the bd is the exclusive-or checksum of the offset) Now I wait ... -- Bob Smither, PhD Circuit Concepts, Inc. = A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. --George Bernard Shaw = smit...@c-c-i.com http://www.C-C-I.Com 281-331-2744(office) -4616(fax) smither.vcf___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Are they that good?
El 09/12/2011 02:27, Peter Bell escribió: 5) Although the output is a sine wave, it's not especially nice - internally it's derived from a square wave fed into a rather simple filter circuit - having said that, none of my test gear has any problem with using it for a reference input, Regards. Pete Hello! Well, at least it is not so ugly as one would have expected :) I've compiled some oscillograms and spectra from it here: http://www.nebulosa.org/images/FE5680A/ The analog one is with a Tek11302 and 11A71 (500MHz BW). Regards, Javier, EA1CRB ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Are they that good?
Javier, the plots are nice, and I did the same years ago for an Efratom FRS-C. Found about the same data. The only point is that with the spectrum analyzer you see the S/A pahse noise, not the Rb, wich has to be orders of magnitude lower. About the comments on the waveform and harmonics contents: who cares about having the 2nd harmonic at -30 or -50 dB? For any practical use one has to square the signal, and the original harmonic content is of no pratical interest, or I am missing something ... 73 - Marco IK1ODO / AI4YF ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Are they that good?
Marco Think you are correct for most things we do. However in communications for mixing and such a sine wave is desirable and a very clean output to minimize things like IMD and other products as we get the 10 MC to its final frequency. Since you are a ham you may appreciate that. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 8:10 AM, Marco IK1ODO -2 ik1...@spin-it.com wrote: Javier, the plots are nice, and I did the same years ago for an Efratom FRS-C. Found about the same data. The only point is that with the spectrum analyzer you see the S/A pahse noise, not the Rb, wich has to be orders of magnitude lower. About the comments on the waveform and harmonics contents: who cares about having the 2nd harmonic at -30 or -50 dB? For any practical use one has to square the signal, and the original harmonic content is of no pratical interest, or I am missing something ... 73 - Marco IK1ODO / AI4YF __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Are they that good?
Hello, Yes, I know that the phase noise is the spectrum analyzer one, but the spurious that are around (mostly -70, -80dBc) are not, particularly the ones at +/200kHz and +/-400kHz. I was mostly curious about the harmonics and other spurii since in this unit, 10MHz are generated from a CPLD divider, and this approach sometimes leds to strange spurious and nasty things around, but in this case seems not bad. As far as I remember, in a FRS-C the output is from a 10MHz crystal oscillator. And the harmonics, well... usually we square that output and they have not importance, but sometimes it is desirable to have a clean as possible signal, and I was curious to see how good (or bad) the filtering was :). On other side, we can use square wave from the CPLD (not yet checked, but it must be there inside, somewhere :) ). The 2nd harmonic is very low, that indicates that square wave symmetry is very good. Regards, Javier, EA1CRB El 09/12/2011 14:10, Marco IK1ODO -2 escribió: Javier, the plots are nice, and I did the same years ago for an Efratom FRS-C. Found about the same data. The only point is that with the spectrum analyzer you see the S/A pahse noise, not the Rb, wich has to be orders of magnitude lower. About the comments on the waveform and harmonics contents: who cares about having the 2nd harmonic at -30 or -50 dB? For any practical use one has to square the signal, and the original harmonic content is of no pratical interest, or I am missing something ... 73 - Marco IK1ODO / AI4YF ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Are they that good?
Getting the square wave out is easy - if you follow down the trace from that J8 socket (which is also connected to the output on the D-type) it goes to a cap - just remove that and solder a jumper across the pair of pads to the left of it (I.E. closer to the PLD). Regards, Pete On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 9:32 PM, Javier Herrero jherr...@hvsistemas.es wrote: Hello, Yes, I know that the phase noise is the spectrum analyzer one, but the spurious that are around (mostly -70, -80dBc) are not, particularly the ones at +/200kHz and +/-400kHz. I was mostly curious about the harmonics and other spurii since in this unit, 10MHz are generated from a CPLD divider, and this approach sometimes leds to strange spurious and nasty things around, but in this case seems not bad. As far as I remember, in a FRS-C the output is from a 10MHz crystal oscillator. And the harmonics, well... usually we square that output and they have not importance, but sometimes it is desirable to have a clean as possible signal, and I was curious to see how good (or bad) the filtering was :). On other side, we can use square wave from the CPLD (not yet checked, but it must be there inside, somewhere :) ). The 2nd harmonic is very low, that indicates that square wave symmetry is very good. Regards, Javier, EA1CRB El 09/12/2011 14:10, Marco IK1ODO -2 escribió: Javier, the plots are nice, and I did the same years ago for an Efratom FRS-C. Found about the same data. The only point is that with the spectrum analyzer you see the S/A pahse noise, not the Rb, wich has to be orders of magnitude lower. About the comments on the waveform and harmonics contents: who cares about having the 2nd harmonic at -30 or -50 dB? For any practical use one has to square the signal, and the original harmonic content is of no pratical interest, or I am missing something ... 73 - Marco IK1ODO / AI4YF ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. attachment: RF_Conn_sml.jpg___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Are they that good?
At 14:21 09-12-11, you wrote: Marco Think you are correct for most things we do. However in communications for mixing and such a sine wave is desirable and a very clean output to minimize things like IMD and other products as we get the 10 MC to its final frequency. Since you are a ham you may appreciate that. Regards Paul WB8TSL Hello Paul, I understand, but don't agree 100% :-) - I mean, doing radio either you use the 10 MHz for syncing oscillators in you chain (I do that for EME, all is derived from a FRK-HLN), or you use the 10 MHz directly to a mixer. The mixer usually is inherently non linear; if you look at the current in the diodes of a ring mixer, it is almost squared. More it is squared, more abrupt is the diode switching, better the mixer dynamic range. And many mixers are sensitive to harmonics (see Tayloe mixer) of the input signal or use harmonic mixing schemes (see any S/A), only possible if the mixer current is highly non-sinusoidal. So, I agree with Javier about the search for existence of low lever spurious signals, but don't understand the need to have a (very) low harmonic content. Oh, well, to have too many harmonics is a bad thing - one time I had radiation problems from a coax feeding a 10 MHz squared signal, with components over 100 MHz - but this is an extreme case. 73 - Marco IK1ODO / AI4YF ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Are they that good?
Marco I understand also. But good enough for this conversation. What I find interesting is that you can not even find a good xtal these days for $40. Yet here is a complete package that delivers quite a bang for the buck. I have wavered back and forth on buying one since I already have numbers of these types of references. So far I have pulled back. Another one? Regards On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Marco IK1ODO -2 ik1...@spin-it.com wrote: At 14:21 09-12-11, you wrote: Marco Think you are correct for most things we do. However in communications for mixing and such a sine wave is desirable and a very clean output to minimize things like IMD and other products as we get the 10 MC to its final frequency. Since you are a ham you may appreciate that. Regards Paul WB8TSL Hello Paul, I understand, but don't agree 100% :-) - I mean, doing radio either you use the 10 MHz for syncing oscillators in you chain (I do that for EME, all is derived from a FRK-HLN), or you use the 10 MHz directly to a mixer. The mixer usually is inherently non linear; if you look at the current in the diodes of a ring mixer, it is almost squared. More it is squared, more abrupt is the diode switching, better the mixer dynamic range. And many mixers are sensitive to harmonics (see Tayloe mixer) of the input signal or use harmonic mixing schemes (see any S/A), only possible if the mixer current is highly non-sinusoidal. So, I agree with Javier about the search for existence of low lever spurious signals, but don't understand the need to have a (very) low harmonic content. Oh, well, to have too many harmonics is a bad thing - one time I had radiation problems from a coax feeding a 10 MHz squared signal, with components over 100 MHz - but this is an extreme case. 73 - Marco IK1ODO / AI4YF __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Are they that good?
Paul I was exactly where you are. The last thing I needed was an other Rb. But an Rb at $ 40 I did bite the bullet and running the tests I do not regret it. Bert Kehren In a message dated 12/9/2011 10:11:06 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, paulsw...@gmail.com writes: Marco I understand also. But good enough for this conversation. What I find interesting is that you can not even find a good xtal these days for $40. Yet here is a complete package that delivers quite a bang for the buck. I have wavered back and forth on buying one since I already have numbers of these types of references. So far I have pulled back. Another one? Regards On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Marco IK1ODO -2 ik1...@spin-it.com wrote: At 14:21 09-12-11, you wrote: Marco Think you are correct for most things we do. However in communications for mixing and such a sine wave is desirable and a very clean output to minimize things like IMD and other products as we get the 10 MC to its final frequency. Since you are a ham you may appreciate that. Regards Paul WB8TSL Hello Paul, I understand, but don't agree 100% :-) - I mean, doing radio either you use the 10 MHz for syncing oscillators in you chain (I do that for EME, all is derived from a FRK-HLN), or you use the 10 MHz directly to a mixer. The mixer usually is inherently non linear; if you look at the current in the diodes of a ring mixer, it is almost squared. More it is squared, more abrupt is the diode switching, better the mixer dynamic range. And many mixers are sensitive to harmonics (see Tayloe mixer) of the input signal or use harmonic mixing schemes (see any S/A), only possible if the mixer current is highly non-sinusoidal. So, I agree with Javier about the search for existence of low lever spurious signals, but don't understand the need to have a (very) low harmonic content. Oh, well, to have too many harmonics is a bad thing - one time I had radiation problems from a coax feeding a 10 MHz squared signal, with components over 100 MHz - but this is an extreme case. 73 - Marco IK1ODO / AI4YF __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Are they that good?
I understand Bert. But you wanted to test it. I actually don't have a real reason grab one of these jewels. Though understanding when the piles gone, its gone. Thats the way it works on this stuff. But I have 6 of the old cel site Lucent RBs all $20 and a Good HP 5065 and then last spring a lpro 101 for $20. Granted the Lucents are fairly old in years with OK lamp voltage still. Just concerned about becoming a RB addict and having to join a multi-step with-drawl program. God knows I may still buy two. Shipping included. :-) Regards Paul On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 10:19 AM, ewkeh...@aol.com wrote: Paul I was exactly where you are. The last thing I needed was an other Rb. But an Rb at $ 40 I did bite the bullet and running the tests I do not regret it. Bert Kehren In a message dated 12/9/2011 10:11:06 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, paulsw...@gmail.com writes: Marco I understand also. But good enough for this conversation. What I find interesting is that you can not even find a good xtal these days for $40. Yet here is a complete package that delivers quite a bang for the buck. I have wavered back and forth on buying one since I already have numbers of these types of references. So far I have pulled back. Another one? Regards On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Marco IK1ODO -2 ik1...@spin-it.com wrote: At 14:21 09-12-11, you wrote: Marco Think you are correct for most things we do. However in communications for mixing and such a sine wave is desirable and a very clean output to minimize things like IMD and other products as we get the 10 MC to its final frequency. Since you are a ham you may appreciate that. Regards Paul WB8TSL Hello Paul, I understand, but don't agree 100% :-) - I mean, doing radio either you use the 10 MHz for syncing oscillators in you chain (I do that for EME, all is derived from a FRK-HLN), or you use the 10 MHz directly to a mixer. The mixer usually is inherently non linear; if you look at the current in the diodes of a ring mixer, it is almost squared. More it is squared, more abrupt is the diode switching, better the mixer dynamic range. And many mixers are sensitive to harmonics (see Tayloe mixer) of the input signal or use harmonic mixing schemes (see any S/A), only possible if the mixer current is highly non-sinusoidal. So, I agree with Javier about the search for existence of low lever spurious signals, but don't understand the need to have a (very) low harmonic content. Oh, well, to have too many harmonics is a bad thing - one time I had radiation problems from a coax feeding a 10 MHz squared signal, with components over 100 MHz - but this is an extreme case. 73 - Marco IK1ODO / AI4YF __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nuts https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Are they that good?
I've ordered one. Meanwhile, my Racal-Dana 1992 soldiers on nicely. The attached is a gnuplot of a few days' measurements of the Trimble Thunderbolt's 10 MHz output. -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 attachment: 1992.gif___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Are they that good?
At 18:23 09-12-11, Javier wrote: I think that the low-band preselector (I don't remember the model) was more oriented to increase the dynamic range for EMC testing, rather than due to a crappy harmonic response of the analyzer. It also includes a preamplifier. Correct. 85685A, a very expensive (then and now) piece. The problem there was to limit the impulse bandwidth of the frontend, harmonic response was not a concern. In general, if you want to reliably measure harmonics with a S/A, you have to cancel the fundamental, either with a notch or low pass filter. 73 - Marco IK1ODO ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Are they that good?
El 09/12/2011 18:54, Marco IK1ODO -2 escribió: At 18:23 09-12-11, Javier wrote: I think that the low-band preselector (I don't remember the model) was more oriented to increase the dynamic range for EMC testing, rather than due to a crappy harmonic response of the analyzer. It also includes a preamplifier. Correct. 85685A, a very expensive (then and now) piece. The problem there was to limit the impulse bandwidth of the frontend, harmonic response was not a concern. In general, if you want to reliably measure harmonics with a S/A, you have to cancel the fundamental, either with a notch or low pass filter. Right (except I suppose that high pass, no low pass :) ) Regards, Javier ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Are they that good?
Bob Smither wrote: Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R wrote: The price seems reasonable, esp. with free shipping. Does anyone have experience with these? Is the circuit board included? I could not resist at $40.00 delivered. Mine has been running for a couple of weeks, but my measurements have been inconclusive (I suspect my setup is far from ideal, especially the handling of the 10 MHz signal). I rebuilt my FE-5680A setup with new power supplies and better routing of the 10MHz output. BTW - I noticed that mine has a 1PPS output (~1usec positive +5V pulse) on pin 6 of the DB9 connector. The results are much more consistent with the new setup. I have a 1PPS that is derived from the FE-5680A (not the native 1PPS output on pin 6) that is compared to the 1 PPS from a GPS receiver. The first 15 hours of data can be seen here: http://c-c-i.com/node/154 From the data, it looks like my FE-5680A is running about 1.7E-10 fast. The data sheet specifies aging of 2E-9/year so this seems reasonable. I have been able to talk to it through the RS-232 port (pin 9 is output from FE-5680A, pin 8 is input to FE-5680A). Using Cutecom on Linux with 9600 8N1 results in the following dialog: 2d 04 00 29 - input command - request frequency offset 2d 09 00 24 00 00 00 00 00 - reply From the reply I am assuming that my unit has no programmed offset (32 bits of zeros - last hex digit is the data checksum). My documentation states that the full range of adjustment is: 7f ff ff ff = +383 Hz 80 00 00 00 = -383 Hz To correct the 1.7E-10 offset I need to slow it down by .0017 Hz or a count of -9532. After this unit runs for 24 hours I will try to program in the correction. More later ... -- Bob Smither, PhD Circuit Concepts, Inc. = The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money. -- Alexis de Tocqueville = smit...@c-c-i.com http://www.C-C-I.Com 281-331-2744(office) -4616(fax) attachment: smither.vcf___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Are they that good?
Bob Smither wrote: snip My documentation states that the full range of adjustment is: 7f ff ff ff = +383 Hz 80 00 00 00 = -383 Hz This scale factor is clearly wrong - using it and applying an appropriate correction changes the frequency way too much. From: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.time.nuts/9473/match=fe+5680+pin+outs (thanks Jose!) a better estimate is 14 / Hz. Using data after 20 hours: http://www.c-c-i.com/node/155 the estimated frequency offset is 1.36E-3 Hz. Using the above scale factor gives a correction of -190 counts. Here is the command I used to (temporarily) program the new offset: 2e 09 00 27 ff ff ff 42 bd (the bd is the exclusive-or checksum of the offset) Now I wait ... -- Bob Smither, PhD Circuit Concepts, Inc. = A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. --George Bernard Shaw = smit...@c-c-i.com http://www.C-C-I.Com 281-331-2744(office) -4616(fax) attachment: smither.vcf___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Are they that good?
The price seems reasonable, esp. with free shipping. Does anyone have experience with these? Is the circuit board included? FE-5680A Rubidium Atomic Frequency Standard Oscillator Transceivers 10Mhz Out -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Are they that good?
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com wrote: FE-5680A Rubidium Atomic Frequency Standard Oscillator Transceivers 10Mhz Out There was a lot of email about these a short while ago. But is is still not clear to me if these are even adjustable and if not, how far have they drifted off of 10Mhz since they were new.I'd like to buy one and calibrate it to a GPS. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Are they that good?
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R wrote: The price seems reasonable, esp. with free shipping. Does anyone have experience with these? Is the circuit board included? I could not resist at $40.00 delivered. Mine has been running for a couple of weeks, but my measurements have been inconclusive (I suspect my setup is far from ideal, especially the handling of the 10 MHz signal). The unit I bought was mounted on a sheared off portion of a large PCB with a ground plane / heat sink. It came with an extra DB9 connector and another oscillator (Vectron, ~ 64MHz) thrown in. I have not had time to see if my unit responds to programming from through RS-232, but there is connectivity through the pins and there is a MAXIM RS-232 chip inside so I am optimistic. When I first fired it up I simply compared its 10 MHz to a 10MHz OCXO that is (manually) disciplined to GPS (another project!). I was impressed when after it locked and settled for a few minutes the two 10MHz waveforms were stationary. After a few minutes I could detect some slight drift, but I estimate the two sources agreed to maybe 2 - 3 * 10^-11. That is about as good as I can keep my OCXO so I'm not sure which of the two sources is better. The unit is now mounted on a large heat sink (from a surplus 100W RF load). In my lab the temperature at the top of the case has been running around 45 to 50 C. I am redoing my test setup as I write. I have new power supplies and plan on routing the 10MHz better. My basic test will be to track the (averaged) time interval between a 1PPS from an old Ref Tek 111A GPS clock and a 1PPS derived from the 5680A 10MHz. After I have a few days of reasonable results I will report to the list. Best regards, -- = Bob Smither, PhD Circuit Concepts, Inc. America - born free, taxed to death ... smit...@c-c-i.com http://www.C-C-I.Com 281-331-2744(office) = attachment: smither.vcf___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Are they that good?
Hi They are adjustable via the RS-232 port. You type commands at them and they change frequency. Type another command and they save the setting in permanent memory. They are still pretty close to 10 MHz (like less than 2x10^-10). Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Chris Albertson Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 2:54 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Are they that good? On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com wrote: FE-5680A Rubidium Atomic Frequency Standard Oscillator Transceivers 10Mhz Out There was a lot of email about these a short while ago. But is is still not clear to me if these are even adjustable and if not, how far have they drifted off of 10Mhz since they were new.I'd like to buy one and calibrate it to a GPS. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Are they that good?
Hello, I've got mine a few days ago, had not too much time to play around but seems to work ok. As received, it locked quite fast and it seems to be around 10e-9 off compared with my Thunderbolt. Not tried to adjust it yet. Also, it seems to put a quite clean sine output. Second harmonic around -60dBc (from memory... can be -50dBc), and close up spurs -70dBc at +/-200kHz, and somewhat lower at +/-400kHz. I have not yet looked to closer spurii (only to what was apparent at 10kHz RBW). Next step, to calibrate to GPS and look the output with more detail :) It seems it can be adjusted through the serial port, but it is 10MHz fixed (not 1Hz - 20MHz as other FE-5680A). Well, not bad for the price :) Regards, Javier El 08/12/2011 20:53, Chris Albertson escribió: On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com wrote: FE-5680A Rubidium Atomic Frequency Standard Oscillator Transceivers 10Mhz Out There was a lot of email about these a short while ago. But is is still not clear to me if these are even adjustable and if not, how far have they drifted off of 10Mhz since they were new.I'd like to buy one and calibrate it to a GPS. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Are they that good?
I bought one just for the heck of it for $40 plus shipping. It was advertised as new, (he has changed his listing) but it was not factory new, had been installed at one time but no sign of usage. It had also not been tunedsince leaving the factory and it was within 5 E-11 after a day. After controlling temperature and looking at 1 E-12 for 10 days I have not detected any aging. Tuning is done through the RS232 input in 7E-13 steps. I plan to modify mine and use C field control. I like what I see, well engineered. Bert Kehren. In a message dated 12/8/2011 2:55:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, albertson.ch...@gmail.com writes: On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com wrote: FE-5680A Rubidium Atomic Frequency Standard Oscillator Transceivers 10Mhz Out There was a lot of email about these a short while ago. But is is still not clear to me if these are even adjustable and if not, how far have they drifted off of 10Mhz since they were new.I'd like to buy one and calibrate it to a GPS. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Are they that good?
Hi Bob, Can you direct us to the commands that these units respond to please? Nic Sydney Australia. Hi They are adjustable via the RS-232 port. You type commands at them and they change frequency. Type another command and they save the setting in permanent memory. They are still pretty close to 10 MHz (like less than 2x10^-10). Bob ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Are they that good?
Chris Albertson wrote: On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 12:36 PM, ewkeh...@aol.com wrote: ... Tuning is done through the RS232 input in 7E-13 steps. Where are the instructions for RS232 control commands? A link maybe? See attached. I have not verified this. -- = Bob Smither, PhD Circuit Concepts, Inc. I've come to realize that protecting freedom of choice in our everyday lives is essential to maintaining a healthy civil society. -- George McGovern smit...@c-c-i.comhttp://www.C-C-I.Com281-331-2744 = 5680A-tuning.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document attachment: smither.vcf___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Are they that good?
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Bob Smither smit...@c-c-i.com wrote: See attached. I have not verified this. Thanks, sounds easy enough. But do the units being sold have option 02. Does it say 02 any place on the label? But then if these all have the Max rs232 level converter chip inside what other purpose could that chip serve. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Are they that good?
On 12/08/2011 07:58 PM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R wrote: The price seems reasonable, esp. with free shipping. Does anyone have experience with these? I ran one of this type against a tbolt. I was testing a super simple 6-channel phase comparator at the time, and it was not quite as good as hoped, so the plot is limited by the 25ps noise of the comparator. time offset plot: http://n1.taur.dk/timenuts/p444.png adev plot: http://n1.taur.dk/timenuts/p445.png I had (rather coarsely) adjusted the unit the day before, and a 2*10^-12 offset has been removed before plotting p444. It has been quite useful, moreso since I put it in a rugged box. /Kasper Pedersen ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Are they that good?
RS232 is used to set frequency. There is no control of the C field Bert Kehren In a message dated 12/8/2011 5:37:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, albertson.ch...@gmail.com writes: On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Bob Smither smit...@c-c-i.com wrote: See attached. I have not verified this. Thanks, sounds easy enough. But do the units being sold have option 02. Does it say 02 any place on the label? But then if these all have the Max rs232 level converter chip inside what other purpose could that chip serve. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Are they that good?
The short answer is that there are several different versions of the FE-5880A around, but most of the ones that are currently available at low cost are the ones with FEI P/N 217400-30352-1 on them. The significant characteristics of these specific units are: 1) They need a 5V supply on pin 4 of the D-type connector - none of the other FE-5680As I've seen need this. 2) The output frequency is 10MHz, and is derived by dividing down the internal 60MHz oscillator - these units do not have a programmable DDS on the output, so if you were thinking of programming them to generate some arbitrary frequency then you need to get a different version. 3) Although there is a fine frequency adjust pot on the board, it doesn't appear to do anything - I have checked this with 5 of these units, and they are all the same, so it doesn't look like a fault, it's just the way they are. 4) They do have the Opt-02 frequency trim on the RS-232 interface, and it works as described - note that the trim range is only a few hundred Hz either side of the nominal 10MHz frequency. 5) Although the output is a sine wave, it's not especially nice - internally it's derived from a square wave fed into a rather simple filter circuit - having said that, none of my test gear has any problem with using it for a reference input, Regards. Pete On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 3:53 AM, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com wrote: FE-5680A Rubidium Atomic Frequency Standard Oscillator Transceivers 10Mhz Out There was a lot of email about these a short while ago. But is is still not clear to me if these are even adjustable and if not, how far have they drifted off of 10Mhz since they were new. I'd like to buy one and calibrate it to a GPS. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Are they that good?
How does one tell of the -5690A has 'Option 2', which is the ability to 'tune' the device via the RS-232 interface? Is there a particular ebay seller with the appropriate units? Jerry ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay FE-5680A Rb: Are they that good?
Pop the lid and look if it has the 60 MHz osc. or just connect the RS 232 and it will tell you the settings, all units with date code 2003 are of the new design with the DDS, the ones with variable frequency output you will not get for $40 Bert Kehren In a message dated 12/8/2011 9:04:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, gsteinb...@aol.com writes: How does one tell of the -5690A has 'Option 2', which is the ability to 'tune' the device via the RS-232 interface? Is there a particular ebay seller with the appropriate units? Jerry ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
