Re: [Trisquel-users] Flidas is here
Personal preference, I prefer fresh installs as in place upgrades can have unplanned surprises.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Flidas is here
Great job! Downloading mini version for wifes 12 year old Gateway latpop, I prefer fresh installs over upgrades. I will also test-run the main version on the desktop.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Who of this community honestly runs Trisquel GNU/Linux?
she uses the standard browser (abrowser), and usually has lots of tabs open, she loves her tabs... no problems, temp. usually stays in the 55C range, sometimes goes to 60, not too bad. it suits her needs which is mainly web surfing, online research, online videos etc.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Who of this community honestly runs Trisquel GNU/Linux?
Trisquel 7 mini on wifes laptop, Slackware/SalixOS on Desktop, Debian 9 on other pc.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Openmailbox is out of service?
I came across this regarding cock.li. http://heavy.com/news/2015/12/cockli-cockmail-email-server-los-angeles-new-york-schools-threat-hoax-message-madbomber-8chan-anonymous-suspect-subpoena-meme-troll-credible-lausd/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/01/cock-li-server-seized-again-by-german-prosecutor-service-moves-to-iceland/?comments=1
Re: [Trisquel-users] DRM free iPod alternative
yes, Libre software/firmware.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Happy GNU Year!
Happy New Year Everyone!
Re: [Trisquel-users] DRM free iPod alternative
Thank you magic, I will look into this.
[Trisquel-users] DRM free iPod alternative
I recall in the past this being available somewhere, perhaps ThinkPenguin, but I am unable to locate it. Any ideas? I remember it looking similar to an iPod but was FOSS.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Trisquel 8 iso images updated
Wonderful background!
Re: [Trisquel-users] Trisquel 8 iso images updated
Sure it is stable in that sense, I meant "officially". Also, I was mistaken, it is considered Beta now: "Welcome to Devuan Jessie 1.0 Beta2". Ref: https://devuan.org/
Re: [Trisquel-users] Trisquel 8 iso images updated
Devuan is still alpha, also no guarantee they will be around in a few years. The Devuan dev.'s actually want Debian to merge the two groups together to offer choice of init. So long term Devuan is no guarantee. IMO.
Re: [Trisquel-users] I did Trisquel Wallpapers
Awesome Job! I like all of them.
Re: [Trisquel-users] New computer specs
Just a question of prop. wifi driver or not. All should be good. Worse case scenario you can pick up a wifi dongle here: https://www.thinkpenguin.com/catalog/wireless-networking-gnulinux
Re: [Trisquel-users] Hello world
"Yes, a "Debian Libre" distribution sounds sensible. Why didn't I think of this before?" Round and Round we go. You were told this already, its called gNewSense, it is Debian Libre or a Liberated Debian. Contact them via iirc and their mailing list and have fun with it. The lead dev. is Sam and he is very approachable.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Hello world
If you want a Libre OS that is based on Ubuntu then use Trisquel. If you want a Libre OS that is based on Debian then use gNewSense. Each has its merits, each has its reasons for choosing the distro they are based on. There are a few official FSF/Libre distros and a more distros that are Libre but not yet FSF approved. Two off the top of my head are FreeSlack (more of a way to liberate Slackware then its own distro) and ConnocahetOS (based on Slackware and SalixOS). ref: http://freeslack.net/ https://connochaetos.org/wiki/
Re: [Trisquel-users] Hi everyone
Excellent list.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Please contritube to Trisquel 8!
Nano is a very good editor for cli...I also like geany.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Hello world
you nailed it. Thank You.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Hello world
How many times do you plan to repeat yourself?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Hello world
You are making a very easy distinction complex. Debian in its current form is not libre. It is Debian that would need to make changes to meet that standard, stop hosting non-free and contrib, remove recommendations and instructions on how to enable them, etc... You are advocating for FSF to change, however, in order for libre software that respects the freedoms of the user it is software that needs to change in order for FSF designation. You see the standards are there to protect you the user, not the developer or the company etc... If you disagree with FSF then use any distro you likeperhaps you are an advocate of opensource and not Libre, there is a clear difference between the two and opensource does not equate libre. I revert back to my original thoughts in my first reply.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Hello world
Trisquel is what it is and its a distro for those who value the ethics of libre software and more current software, neither too old or too bleeding edge. gNewSense and Parabola fit the other ends of the spectrum. Sorry, but it will most likely never be a distro for the masses. Its more of an underground "revolution", like computing was back in the day. Your list of concerns/suggestions are curious, however, given that are "trying" the distro. I'm usually suspect of intentions to change when something or someone is new. There is no grey area for Libre v. proprietary software, it is either one or the other. No such thing as partially free. Is a slave partially free if the shackles are on his feet but not hands, or if he can walk the yard but not leave the property?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Trisquel 8 is using systemd?!
I think your best bet, if trying to avoid systemd, is to use a distro that does not have it and is committed to not having it, rather than trying to remove it from a distro that is tightly connected to it and has it as a dependency for many programs. It is going to get harder not easier for Devuan down the road, and would be harder still for Trisquel to remove it from Ubuntu. Debian offers various init as options for now, but even they (mailing lists, iirc etc...) have said this is temporary, going forward they are committed to systemd unless something better is widely adopted; path of least resistance. Just my two cents.
[Trisquel-users] Yahoo suffers world's biggest hack affecting 1 billion users
They just discovered an even larger hit https://www.yahoo.com/news/yahoo-says-hackers-stole-information-221214183.html
Re: [Trisquel-users] Decent tutorial on setting up Claws-Mail
True Superalas this day and age video tutorials serve well. :) I have that manual printed and stored in a folder on desk. hehe
Re: [Trisquel-users] Please contritube to Trisquel 8!
Salman, I would like to offer assistance with the wiki and other roles are possible as well. ;)
Re: [Trisquel-users] Hi everyone
Here is an interesting list...have to check to see if they are Libre as well. https://alternativeto.net/software/skype/?license=opensource
Re: [Trisquel-users] Decent tutorial on setting up Claws-Mail
Forgot to add that the video is using Windows, however, the tips apply equally to GNU/Linux version. ;)
[Trisquel-users] Decent tutorial on setting up Claws-Mail
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xToShZMC-6c
Re: [Trisquel-users] First development alpha iso images of Trisquel 8.0 "Flidas"
Radeon support as described above!
Re: [Trisquel-users] Hi everyone
Nickman, first you should be commended for your interest in Free/Libre software and the willingness to place that interest on the table so to speak by actually using a distro that is committed to those freedoms. 8) As already mentioned, virtualization is a great option, although some people feel more comfortable dual booting in the beginning. Personally, the only way I use Windows (for one tax program that does not have a GNU version yet), is through virtual manager/kvm (virt-manager). I was a long time user of virtualbox, but when they started adding non free things to it, I began to explore other options. Regarding GNU/Linux Mint, their security policy regarding updates is quite lacking, so I would not recommend it unless via LiveCD or virtual machine. thats my two cents.
[Trisquel-users] Im back ;)
Hello allafter over a year away from the forum/distro, I am back to using Trisquel. Look forward to v.8, however, v7 is still working well. Cheers.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Hi everyone
;) I know a few people that work on cruise ships (Disney and Norwegian) and they like it alot. What ever distro you decide to use (nod towards Trisquel), perhaps you could volunteer some time with Business Admin. tasks as well. I'm sure Ruben would appreciate it.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Hi everyone
Parabola is nice, just keep in mind that rolling release requires attention and care with regards to updatesalways read the changelog on website (latest news section) first or you will be bitten sooner or later. I've been there and done that, bleeding edge is fun but as you get older LTS type distros become more appealing. lol What year are you in for college?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Offtopic: Assange on google
Oh Jade, not agreeing with evidence provided does not make the evidence any less valid. Also, conspiracies stop being a theory, when they become a fact. Was Snowden a Conspiracy Theorist, how about Assange.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Offtopic: Assange on google
LOL, great picture and excellent point! Did you make it? Beginning to think that some people want to turn this forum into a Carry on folks, nothing to see here kind of forum. Interesting, how it is ok to question Canonical on their spyware, but you cannot question sysytemd or SELinux or now Google either...that is strange.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Offtopic: Assange on google
That is what I meant. :)
Re: [Trisquel-users] Offtopic: Assange on google
Jade and Onpon, A theory is not a fact, the very nature of a theory (scientific or otherwise) is a conjecture, that most likely points to the truth but is as yet unprovable, thereby it is not yet a fact. Reference the many theories that are accepted as fact even though they remain theories. A hypothesis precedes a theory and begins the investigation. Nice try though. One could also presume onpon that the refusal to investigate what the kernel developers and others are upset about/concerned about, could make that person a (to use your term) a flat earth proponent. It is the refusal or unwillingness to investigate even accepted norms that leads one to folly.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Could systemd be an inconvenient on portability?
Did you read the links?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Offtopic: Assange on google
Never said systemd or SELinux was spyware. That reference was to the Unity/Ubuntu search features, and the label was by Stallman, not me.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Could systemd be an inconvenient on portability?
Hi Jade, you beat me to it. :)
Re: [Trisquel-users] Could systemd be an inconvenient on portability?
Oct. 6, 2014. Note in the comment section how many people Pottering blocked just because they raised questions regarding systemd. Similar attitude of some in this forum unfortunately.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Could systemd be an inconvenient on portability?
Interesting post from one of the top Linux kernel developers regarding Pottering and systemd. Comments are interesting as well. https://plus.google.com/+StevenRostedt/posts/WtGhnM4jVoP
Re: [Trisquel-users] Offtopic: Assange on google
Be careful, posting things like this on here, has been known to have people label you a Conspiracy Theorist. And yes, it appears that Google does work for them Seems alot of companies do anymore.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Security Enhanced Linux Kernel? Eh? What's going on here? O.o!
It is very naive to think that Malicious features simply do not thrive in libre software. More difficult, perhaps, impossible, not by the least. There are many vulnerabilities in any given software. And yes, Libre, open source software can be created with the explicit intention to create holes (bugs). An example is the prior OpenSSH debacle, this only affected systems that ran SELinux, if you did not have it installed or enabled then your system was fine. Interesting that a system designed to make your OS more secure created a major hole that was wide open! SELinux is what made OpenSSH insecure! Similar concerns have been raised with systemd. http://www.juniper.net/security/auto/vulnerabilities/vuln30276.html
Re: [Trisquel-users] Security Enhanced Linux Kernel? Eh? What's going on here? O.o!
For starters, the official SELinux handbook is hosted by and maintained by the NSA. Also, not the above post in response to onpon, regarding the OpenSSH debacle being created by SELinux. Systems that did not have it installed or enabled were fine.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Security Enhanced Linux Kernel? Eh? What's going on here? O.o!
Well, all I can say to both of you is, wow! As the old saying goes...you can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink...unless of course its cool-aid, and then its obvious when people drink that. Anyway, it was enjoyable, and perhaps others will read up on it, and learn as well.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Security Enhanced Linux Kernel? Eh? What's going on here? O.o!
Oh, this just keeps getting funnier. The partnership as a part of the settlement over patents and only patents (again why GPL is a great creation, it avoids this nonsense), anyway, also had SUSE create their system so it can operate within companies that are mainly Microsoft oriented (ie: most companies) and the SUSE OS (SLES) would be able to work with the other systems flawlessly. But to say that SUSE or openSUSE is a Microsoft product is just laughable. Their OBS (open build service) is one of the largest repositories for free software in the world (Debian has more), however, Debian does not hold programs or build programs for other distros, openSUSE does. You can build programs for Debian, Fedora, CentOS, Slackware...etc..., I would say that is a pretty darn good commitment to open source. Again, the settlement was not between SUSE and Microsoft it was between Novell and Microsoft. And yes, I do think they (Novell) copped out and caved in to the pressure, which RedHat did not, so cudos to them for that. openSUSE is community driven like Fedora, but even more open and autonomy then Fedora. Agreed, this is not the place to discuss that distro. in any detail, but wanted to clarify your points.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Security Enhanced Linux Kernel? Eh? What's going on here? O.o!
This is/was the Chairman of the Board https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Shelton Interesting choice for a technology company, no. http://cdn.atechnologyjobisnoexcuse.com/files/2012/02/sandia-20120206.pdf http://gcn.com/Articles/2005/01/21/Red-Hat-pushes-for-Linux-in-federal-market.aspx They are mainly a gov. company now, most of their contracts are US gov. contracts. Even USPS uses SUSE/openSUSE apparently out of privacy concerns for its customers. International Stock exchanges, and many European and Asian companies and Governments use SUSE/openSUSE, because RedHat is seen as being in bed with the US Gov.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Security Enhanced Linux Kernel? Eh? What's going on here? O.o!
look down a little lower Magic...I forgot to reply directly to his post.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Security Enhanced Linux Kernel? Eh? What's going on here? O.o!
LOL, where do you get your outdated info. The Microsoft settlement is one of the oldest sticks and exaggerations one could throw. It was a lawsuit settlement between Novell and Microsoft over patents. NEWSBREAK Novell no longer owns SUSE and they never owned openSUSE. Micro Focus International is the new owner of SUSE, and the first thing they did was give SUSE autonomy, in other words, SUSE can do their own thing make their own decisions and it is not based on Micro Focus. Also, frees them up from the Novell settlement with Microsoft. Microsoft never owned SUSE anyway that is funny. Good try Magic, would expect better from you though.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Could systemd be an inconvenient on portability?
Thanks for reading it Tom. So many people are quick to comment without checking the reference. That is most certainly his blog, he references it in most of his forum and iirc posts. Check the bottom also: © Lennart Poettering. Built using Pelican. Theme by Giulio Fidente on github. .
Re: [Trisquel-users] New free user
Welcome to the community!!!
Re: [Trisquel-users] Could systemd be an inconvenient on portability?
For those that think systemd is just an elegant modern init system, consider this from Potterings own blog: We want a unified solution that ultimately can cover updates for full systems, OS containers, end user apps, programming ABIs, and more. These updates shall be double-buffered, (at least). This is an absolute necessity if we want to prepare the ground for operating systems that manage themselves, that can update safely without administrator involvement. Pottering wants systemd to even take care of updating your entire system, so you the end user or administrator never have to! Can you name one reason why an init system would do this, or even need to? Prepare the ground for operating systems to manage themselves... Really!
Re: [Trisquel-users] Could systemd be an inconvenient on portability?
LOL, this has nothing to do with the prior post. Read Potterings own words, since you like references so much.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Could systemd be an inconvenient on portability?
Really onpon! So you want people to believe that a post on Potterings own blog written by him, was not actually posted by him, and that he did not actually say it? If that is not deluded than I am not sure what is. In that post, he is laying out the foundation for how systemd will be its own OS and control all features of the OS from kernel to userland, including upgrades. Read it, its write their in black and white, or what ever font choice you choose.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Security Enhanced Linux Kernel? Eh? What's going on here? O.o!
SELinux and RedHats connections to the US gov./spy agencies is the main reason why SUSE/openSUSE created AppArmor, (Immunix actually). You also have Tomoyo as another alternative and grsec-kernel if you really want security.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Security Enhanced Linux Kernel? Eh? What's going on here? O.o!
funny, for what part?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Could systemd be an inconvenient on portability?
Note to Rueben, people should not be able to +1 their own posts. Magic. You are correct about when they dropped Gnome, however, you obviously cannot tell the difference between Patrick (public voice/P.C.) and how he feels about certain things in GNU/Linux. That is obvious. Here is a link to several of the Slackware dev's and users discussing systemd, pay close attention to Pat's and AlienBob both developers for along time...and keep in mind that Slackware is the oldest distro, and has the street cred's to back up what they say. https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/systemd-and-slackware%27s-future-4175416339/
Re: [Trisquel-users] Could systemd be an inconvenient on portability?
(H_TeXMeX_H) I think that systemd is only a problem that appears along with GNOME. As Slackware has never included GNOME, I think it is safe for now. The increasing number of applications that require it are likely GNOME-only apps, which I have seen many of, and avoid instantly. If you don't know why I avoid them, try to install one, the dependencies are endless and hard to build in order and if you forget to compile something into one of the dependencies you have to go back and do it again.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Could systemd be an inconvenient on portability?
That's exactly what it was danieru. An ultimatum not just for Gentoo but for anyone not on board with systemd. Nice post by the way. Pottering's attitude is what has many dev.'s question the intention of his project, and the overall scope of his plans. Never seen anything like it before, at least not on this scale and level. Gentoo will continue to develop OpenRC and give its users the choice during install whether they want systemd or openRC or a combination of the two. Slackware, Crux, BSD's and others are against systemd, and have no plans to implement it. Slackware has gone so far as to drop any support for Gnome and its programs as a result of its stance against systemd and RedHat influence in general.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Could systemd be an inconvenient on portability?
One more from Pat (Slackware founder) volkerdi Slackware Maintainer Well, the problem with using shell scripts in the boot process is that it goes through a lot of PIDs, and it would be less ugly to arrive at a usable machine state with a PID in the hundreds, or lower. If everything has to break in order to achieve that, it seems like a good trade. Eventually all the broken stuff will be fixed, right? I think that's the basic rationale. And maybe shave a few more seconds off boot time, but who boots much (or cares)? My servers and desktops remain on, and my laptops are usually on, suspended, or hibernated. I would prefer a reliable and well-understood boot system like the one we have. My primary concern is that the systemd cabal is going to be pushing it as a dependency wherever possible, but we'll deal with that if it happens. But if any major distributions do actually release using systemd, the world will be stuck with it forever. If that's the case, I hope it turns out to be a good idea...
Re: [Trisquel-users] Could systemd be an inconvenient on portability?
ok last one from this bunch for now (anyway), but I think this is all very educational for many: (Alien Bob Slackware Contributor) I would not consider systemd for this reason only: it is being written specifically to work only on the Linux platform. I am very much an advocate of cross-platform development, UNIX is bigger than Linux alone. Systemd is expected to be used by userland programs like KDE and Gnome. However these are also used on BSD, Solaris, HP UNIX etcetera. It is as if Poettering expects that the userland programmers (KDE/Gnome and other desktop environments) and distributors of UNIXes should deal with the incompatibilities and patch their code to make it work on non-Linux OS-es where systemd will be unavailable. Code that shows this amount of contempt for anything that is not Linux, should be buried without ceremony. Poettering also said his code is more efficient because he does not stick to POSIX compliant programming. The programming shortcuts he takes are non-portable. I think more efficient and cross-platform should not be mutually exclusive. Taking shortcuts to make your program do fancy stuff is an immature coding style and better suited for the demo scene. You can optimize code and still keep it cross-platform, there is a lot of software that proves this - look at the multimedia applications that use platform-specific assembler code to squeeze all the available performance out of a computer. Still those applications compile cleanly and can be used on Linux, UNIX, and on several hardware platforms. It takes effort to make software portable and you have to be willing to spend that time - you do it for the users of your software. Poettering defends his systemd with vigor, but his comments reflect his contempt for any other way of thinking. One of his typical statements is that all his critics are amazingly badly informed. You can not go into a dialogue with the guy, he just won't listen to your arguments. So, what are the advantages of systemd? Using error-prone shell code instead of systemd is bullshit - it's not as if we have to write new init scripts every week. Replaces consolekit? Poettering and Zeuthen are two Redhat employees who infest computers with half-assed software that they deprecate faster than distros can adopt it. Does it make your computer boot faster? Well wow... how many seconds of productive time do you gain per day?. It is not worth the hassle. Eric
Re: [Trisquel-users] Could systemd be an inconvenient on portability?
I could go on, but it makes for a great read to follow the above link...there are many other links if you are interested in seeing both sides of the discussion and not just the pro systemd side.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Could systemd be an inconvenient on portability?
Pat in response to someone saying that systemd was fine because it made things simpler and easier: Not even close. This is the Unix philosophy: Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a universal interface. -- Doug McIlroy, the inventor of Unix pipes and one of the founders of the Unix tradition
Re: [Trisquel-users] Could systemd be an inconvenient on portability?
(ReaperX7) From that video he seems to be thinking his software can directly mimic the speed, user-friendliness, zero-administration, and core functionality of Windows upon the Linux kernel. Sorry, but Linux and Windows are two different operating systems and systemd isn't about free choice and freedom of administration of the system. It's about controlled automation and a lack of core principles of system security. I'm beginning to think we'd be better off gathering up some independent developers, or developers from other Linux systems, grabbing the hal, udisks, upower, and udev sources we still have and redeveloping a cross-platform INIT system that can be not only invisible to the system, but completely modular with full control of the system if so desired, works on BSD, Linux, and various other UNIX and UNIX-like operating system kernels and distributions, before Red Hat and Lennart completely destroy Linux and the various OS distributions that use it, and turn it into something it's not and set back Linux yet again as a viable OS alternative to Windows.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Could systemd be an inconvenient on portability?
In case you do not look it up here are a few snippets: (Alien Bob Slackware Contributor): Some things will probably be forced upon Slackware - PAM has been on the carefully circumventing but you never know list for a long time. PAM is not bad to have at all, but it is personal opinion of the Slackware boss which keeps it at bay. That is an architectural decision which we can live with as a team and as Slackware users. But systemd is essentially evil. It is invasive, extremely hostile to other environments, threatening to kill non-Linux ecosystems which have hal, udev, dbus, consolekit, polkit, udisks, upower and friends as dependencies. And every iteration of the software written by the Redhat employees who are responsible for hal, udev, consiolekit, polkit and now systemd are incompatible with previous releases, re-implementing their bad ideas with new bad ideas... basically proving that these Redhat employees must be declared unfit to work on the core of a Linux distro. However, the influence of their employer is so big that these products are forced upon the wider UNIX community and at some point it will be assimilate or die. I hope we (Slackware) will find a way where we do not have to assimilate but still manage to keep the distro working. I have high hopes for KDE which has no Redhat ties and so far, manages to stay clear of this mess, sticking to widely accepted standards. An example of impending doom: udev sources for recent releases are no longer in existence. They are now part of systemd source tarballs. And udisks? That has been deprecated in favour of the new udisks2. Read http://igurublog.wordpress.com/2012/...loss-for-linux and weep. Eric
Re: [Trisquel-users] Could systemd be an inconvenient on portability?
If you cannot have an intelligent discussion and debate with decorum, then you only continue to show the folly that is the future of systemd. GNU/Linux began with debate/discussion when did that end? You might enjoy this thread: https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/will-systemd-make-freebsd-more-popular.50107/ Are you not concerned with errors crashing the entire system, rather than one component which would have happened with a script based init? Also, how do you feel about systemd running processes that you cannot see, or binary logs and the inherent security concerns they pose? Are we here to discuss this intelligently or only squabble about who is right or wrong? If the later, this long time opensource advocate is not interested.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Could systemd be an inconvenient on portability?
X, or Wayland are not the same as an init service. systemd is doing things an init service should not do. Agree that SysV needed to be fixed, but why not fix it, why not replace it with a more modern but simple service, why a complex service that continues to grow and consume (merge) more and more services? Again, you use the term argument, who is arguing, this is a discussion, and yes arguing in a discussion is not civil. Would you accept it if SELinux were a hard dependency or requirement of sysytemd for security purposes? Not saying this will happen, but would you be ok if it was? Who determines the limit of what systemd can and cannot do? These are the questions that should be asked by kernel coders, programmers, and the general GNU/Linux user or student, as it affects the future direction of GNU/Linux.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Could systemd be an inconvenient on portability?
the hyperbole is thick with some. systemd is as much a practical concern as it is a philosophical concern. It violates the Unix and GNU/Linux principles. Keep in mind that GNU/Linux was designed to not be Unix, but Unix like, it was not designed to be a free and opensource version of Windows or Apple for example. systemd also has the problem of taking GNU/Linux closer towards being more Windowish. As an example, one great feature of Unix and GNU has been the low risk of malware and viruses, and if someone does happen upon one, the damage is minimized, due to structure of the system. systemd, however, also introduces some virus problems (potential anyway), the autoreloading feature, can cause a malware program to continue to reboot/reload creating an endless loop. This was addressed by Linus to Pottering, whose reply was something along the lines of who cares, we will fix that in the future. Besides the benefits outweigh the risk. I am not addressing conspiracies, just practical concerns. SysV was never made a requirement, nor OpenRC, nor BSD style scripts etc..., yet systemd is, that should raise questions. If something is great, then why not let people and distros, choose to either use it or not. Onpon, don't be ridiculous, it is the 30+ year developers who are the most concerned with systemd, the ones jumping on the bandwagon tend to be the under 30 year old group, who were in diapers when the old timers created the foundation of the systems that we all enjoy. Good question, why are the older programmers not liking systemd, why are their concerns considered conspiratorial and not taken into consideration? Again, perhaps, more questions should be raised and perhaps, systemd should slowly be analysed and introduced rather than pushed on the community. If it is great for RedHat, why not let them keep it like SELinux? If they want to make it a requirement for themselves, have at it... It is a good thing that Trisquel is LTS perhaps over the next few years another alternative will come up, or perhaps systemd will be reigned in and return to just being a more modern init system. It is laughable, that the original idea behind systemd, was to make it easier for junior coders and administrators to not have to remember different scripts or to even learn scripting in the first place, just tell them to type systemctl start... systemctl enable That alone says alot. Why onpon and Magic Banana cannot discuss this civilly is beyond me.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Could systemd be an inconvenient on portability?
Magic, One major program is Gnome DE, it requires systemd as a hard dependency. Again, not heresay, it is stated in several places by Pottering and Kay, mainly on their own blogs and various iirc's. http://www.zdnet.com/article/linus-torvalds-and-others-on-linuxs-systemd/ The question people should ask, is not is systemd good or bad, but why are Pottering and crew making it a requirement or hard dependency for so many programs, and the list keeps growing! As an example, systemd started out as, and was promoted as a modern init ...however, look at the current list (39 programs): http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/view/systemd/chapter06/systemd.html
Re: [Trisquel-users] Trisquel Linux Libre and Debian Linux
Agreed, if you want to run Debian no real reason for the linux libre kernel, unless you want a newer feature of that kernel. Just do not use the non-free and contrib repos. Cannot recommend Devuan yet, as it is still loosely organized.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Gnewsense and Blag
Wow onpon, that is harsh. Blag is still under active development. 20k is out and they are working on 21k. There is a new team and a new maintainer. Forums are up, however, most of their development and communication is via mailing lists. links for info. below: http://forums.blagblagblag.org/viewtopic.php?f=2t=5608 Blag users list: http://blagblagblag.org/pipermail/blag-users_blagblagblag.org/ Blag devel: http://blagblagblag.org/pipermail/blag-devel_blagblagblag.org/ http://forums.blagblagblag.org/viewtopic.php?t=5619 They are even working on a unified Libre Forum for Blag, Parabola, gNewSense and others. Trisquels forum is quite active so they did not see a reason to have this Forum join the new one. So I would say that is still actively developed!
Re: [Trisquel-users] Gnewsense and Blag
Again read the above post. Perhaps do a little research before posting.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Could Trisquel 8 switch to MATE?
Magic Banana, no reason to resort to this level of communication. I did not mock you, nor make fun of you... Merely stating, facts about systemd, how that led you to conspiracy theories and big foot is beyond me. Regarding Linus, he said that he does not have have a problem with systemd as an init systemd. He does have a problem with binary logging, systemd hiding many of its processes, and the monolithic nature of the software suite, which is no longer just concerned about being a modern init system He has also mentioned in interviews and workshops, that he does not care for or support any one distro. His only concern is the kernel and he uses Fedora because it is what he always used, and he does not like to change or constantly maintain systems etc... He hardly ever uses GUI anyway, and works mainly from TTY and CLI. So the distro. does not really matter much to him. Personally, I and many other long time Unix and GNU/Linux users think that systemd was rushed, has grown very large in a short period of time. The process should have been much slower, let some of the bugs work themselves out, and it should have remained a modern init system, of which many people have no complaint. But...like another person said, the OP was asking about MATE DE so...perhaps this will need to become a separate post/discussion. I did not mean to offend you! :)
Re: [Trisquel-users] Gnewsense and Blag
Those are not the only lines of communication for the devel team. LOL. Alot of the development communication is via those channels plus, email, iirc, conference calls etc... Also, you may find it interesting that Fedora is planning on having LTS versions as well, which means Blag, would also be LTS. One of the things they are dealing with is removing some of the questionable software/programs that RedHat/Fedora includes..ie: SELinux and others. Considering it is a new team and the nature of the beast (Fedora short release cycle), I do not think you can compare it to Trisquel yet... Just like you cannot compare Parabola to Trisquel, completely different. If Fedora and they go LTS then perhaps it can compare. Libre distros. in particular need to support one another, not find reasons to trash each other. Blag will find a niche just like Trisquel has, will be most interesting if they go LTS.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Could Trisquel 8 switch to MATE?
onpon...not true, they are completely against it. What they are doing is making their version which would be limited to an init system and not the entire monolithic software suite that is the ever growing mess of systemd. BSD will never go for systemd as it violates POSIX, which the BSD's (and prior to systemd GNU/Linux did as well), adhere to. You might enjoy these threads whether you or for or against it: https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-from-scratch-13/what-is-so-bad-with-systemd-4175500300/ https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/slackware-and-systemd-885228/#post4380112 https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/systemd-is-obsolete.49372/ https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/how-is-freebsd-coping-with-a-systemd-future.46667/ http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page http://systemd-free.org/index.php Interesting to note that you can make Parabola systemd free as well by following the tips from the above link. Debate is good, and debate is the one thing RedHat and Pottering did not allow. But then again this is what happens when people right out of college think they know better than people with 30+ years of Unix/GNU/Linux experience.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Could Trisquel 8 switch to MATE?
Oh Magic Banana...The research is all on the internet from people working on the projects. Fact, Linus has blocked Kay from submitting any/all code for the kernel until further notice. Fact, soon systemd will default to gummbiboot as the loader, it has already merged with it. When Lennart and Kay were caught trying to make it require gummi, they changed it to default but not required. Fact, Pottering has stated on his own blog and various mailing lists that he detests Linus and the entire kernel team and has mentioned that systemd could use its own RedHat kernel. Fact, Pottering has stated that he does not care if systemd breaks other distros, or breaks other desktop environments, he only cares that it works with Gnome and the programs they view as being key for further development. Gentoo, Slackware and Crux are continuing to pursue non-systemd development, for how long only time will tell. Manjaro is also offering Gentoo's OpenRC with mixed results. the BSD's are even helping them, informally, as they are of course antisystemd, since any programs hardwired to systemd will break or not be included in the BSD repos/ports. So yes, their end goal as stated by Pottering is to have a complete CoreOS, that includes everything from the kernel (Linus' or not) up to the DE (Gnome).
Re: [Trisquel-users] Could Trisquel 8 switch to MATE?
Magic Banana, you can say that again. According to Pottering and Kay Sievers (systemd developers), their end game is to have systemd be a complete OS. Even Linus had to block all code contributions from Kay because they were trying to hardwire the kernel to require systemd. You can search the net for all of this. Latest news, is they are working on systemd also becoming a bootloader (Gummiboot), to make the system more secure of course.. Again, search it.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Is Belenos Moving to SystemD?
I would imagine that Trisquel would have to switch since Ubuntu is switching thanks to Debian caving in to RedHat. http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/02/ubuntu-debian-switching-systemd Unless Trisquel switches to Devuan (if they ever come together), or to another distro that is not systemd, perhaps a libre slackware for examplethen they are tied to the fate of Ubuntu and Canonical.
Re: [Trisquel-users] what repositories in debian 8 are free software?
If the goals is FSF libre, then only use main. As onpon pointed out contrib contains a mixture of free and non-free. Virtualbox is an example, it is free, but uses a non-free installer. You could use 4.1 or older and have a libre version as well. You could also, review the license of each program before installing, however, this can be tricky as some programs are free, but the documentation might not be...
Re: [Trisquel-users] Microsoft was the biggest presence at a recent Linux conference in Washington. Your thoughts?
Just a little update on systemd, since it played a role in this post... Devuan (Debian fork) is expecting a systemd free version of Jessie to be released sometime this summer... antiX (based on Debian), is currently working on a systemd free version of Jessie. Uses nonfree, however, they provide instructions on how to remove/purge the programs and block them so the system is free/libre... Manjaro (based on Arch) offers a version with openRC instead of systemd. Slackware has no plans on adding systemd, Gentoo gives the user the option of using it or notFreeBSD no systemd.. gNewSense not systemd...for now... http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
[Trisquel-users] Nice Trisquel style theme for icewm
Found this on box-look, of course it is not the same, but it is one of the nicest themes I have seen for good ol icewm! http://box-look.org/content/show.php/Trisquel?content=164600
Re: [Trisquel-users] Microsoft was the biggest presence at a recent Linux conference in Washington. Your thoughts?
It is part of their plan and Microsoft is not alone. Microsoft, Google and Apple all use the opensource community for their ideas, they take, take and take more, then contribute little to nothing back. Google contributes some back. The end game for all three is for the opensource world to go back to being only for the domain of hackers, fine with that actually. Look at what Microsoft did several years ago with Novell/SUSE, they still control that company and by extension openSUSE as well. Even RedHat cannot be fully trusted as they are beginning to dictate to the opensource community of how things should be, ie systemd, gnome3, SELinux etc... Whether you like systemd or gnome3, you cannot deny they were forced on the larger community by RedHat. This is one more reason why truly free distros need to be supported, and yes, I do include Debian in this category. Their 20+ year stance cannot be argued with.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Microsoft was the biggest presence at a recent Linux conference in Washington. Your thoughts?
Hey Magic, One is how quickly programs were tightly integrated into systemd, according to some developers the integration was required. In other words, many programs are so tightly integrated with systemd that if you remove systemd those new programs will no longer work. I would qualify that as forcing it on the community. Same with SELinux...Even though SELinux is not enabled by default on Debian and its derivatives, it still includes some of the libraries etc... Why even do that, most likely because RedHat is going to force a fork in the road for GNU/Linux, those that use SELinux and those that do not. And Debian seems to be moving slowly, their method, towards SELinux. RedHat has a much larger influence on the larger community than alot of people are comfortable with or willing to admit. Again, not saying that systemd is bad or that SELinux is terrible, just stating that they were not community decisions. This would probably be a seperate post though. :)
Re: [Trisquel-users] Microsoft was the biggest presence at a recent Linux conference in Washington. Your thoughts?
Interesting comparison, but not the same thing. Systemd complaints are not based on a language or X Window System functions. It was/is based on the principle that Unix and GNU/Linux programs are supposed to be designed to do one thing and do that one thing well. Systemd is a program that literally runs the entire system, more Microsoft in nature than Unix or GNU/Linux. That is why the old developers are still upset and the newer ones are not, because they do not understand the underlying fundamental change that occurred, and yes that change came down from RedHat. Even some Debian dev.'s are considering a systemd free fork etc...
Re: [Trisquel-users] Is anyone here from China?
Scratching my head on this one...wondering why it seems this forum is getting so many strange posts and requests as of late! Or am I the only one that finds it strange.
Re: [Trisquel-users] If I install CentOS 6......
Here you go Mangy Start with the Evo/Lution Arch installer, it uses a very easy Installer to give you Vanilla Arch with Arch repos. You choose your DE, DM, etc... Pay attention to your mount points and read each step carefully, it is a breeze once you do that. You may want to run it once through a VM for practice. http://www.evolutionlinux.com/ Then go to Parabola's site and follow the instructions on converting an Arch install to Parabola. You run a few scripts and switch the repo's to point to Parabolas and BAM, you have a GNU/Linux Libre OS that is bleeding edge and contrary to popular belief fairly stable. Not server stable but stable still. https://www.parabola.nu/
Re: [Trisquel-users] How Does linux work? is it fair to all women?
Now it makes sense...Ruben really should implement a spam button along with the -/+.
Re: [Trisquel-users] If I install CentOS 6......
No for Freedora, however, rmmmusical's reply seems very interesting and should work with little trouble.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How Does linux work? is it fair to all women?
Does this not seem a little trollish to anyone?
Re: [Trisquel-users] If I install CentOS 6......
PSS: completely unrelated, but there is a great way to install Parabola via an Arch specific GUI installer if anyone is interested I could post it.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Basic security questions
Reality is, for most people computers are necessary, cell phones as well, however, smart phones are not. For the average person, try to keep technology as dumb as possible. Older computers also put off less radiation and magnetic waves, save toxic waste from the dump etc... On the flip side, keep in mind that Germany's intelligence agency has recently switched to using standard typewriters for all internal communication. I believe Russia has done the same. http://r.duckduckgo.com/l/?kh=-1uddg=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ubergizmo.com%2F2014%2F07%2Fgerman-security-committee-considers-moving-to-typewriters%2F http://r.duckduckgo.com/l/?kh=-1uddg=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.com%2Fnews%2Fworld-europe-23282308 Best practice is to strike a balance between the two, unless you are willing to go off the grid.
Re: [Trisquel-users] What forum software is Trisquel.info running?
phpbb is a great alternative as well. https://www.phpbb.com/
Re: [Trisquel-users] GNU IceCat talk at LibrePlanet 2015
Thank you Ruben for the excellent presentation and for posting this. Keep up the great work with GNU IceCat! Is there any traction with having other Distro's including it?
Re: [Trisquel-users] OS X, iOS and Linux have more vulnerabilities than Windows!!!!!
Article is bunk. One must consider that the most secure servers in the world all run GNU/linux. The US federal government mainly uses GNU/Linux, especially RHEL (RedHat Enterprise Linux), NSA uses RedHat, most of the worlds air traffic controllers are using GNU/Linux etc...Oh, by the way this also includes ISS (as in International Space Station) which uses Scientific GNU/Linux which is a spin of Fedora. Seems more like Microsoft damage control.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Join the Trisquel Cafe!
Thank you Jade! What a great idea, just joined.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Tweaks to optimize user friendliness
Here you go Jade, this is a config for JWM designed to imitate a Crunchbang dark theme with single desktop. It was modified from a config posted on a Crunchbang forum. Feel free to copy paste and enjoy! For me, JWM is usually around 1mb on up to 5mb depending on how much I add to startup commands. I have two or three other files as well, one has a red outline for active window, another blue etc... With proper setup JWM would be an ideal option for mini version, perhaps mini-ultralight. I can post a tint2 config for Openbox if you are interested. mate-terminal gmrun /etc/jwm/debian-menu xscreensaver-command -activate mate-screenshot root:1 showdesktop terminus-10:bold 4 20 #c0c0c0 #404040 #404040 #404040 #c0c0c0 #202020 #202020 #202020 terminus-10:normal #c0c0c0 #404040 #c0c0c0 #202020 terminus-10:normal #c0c0c0 black terminus-10:normal #c0c0c0 #202020 #c0c0c0 #404040 liberation.sans-10:weight=bold #3c3c3c white #3c3c3c $HOME/.icons nitrogen --restore 400 2 click border opaque opaque up down right left left down up right select escape nextstacked close desktop# root:1 window exec:aterm -fn terminus-12 -fg black -bg white -sb exec:aterm -fn 6x9 -e alsamixer conky -c ~/.conky/Orange/conkyrc_orange conky -c ~/.conky/moc/conkyrc_obmoc mate-volume-control-applet nm-applet mate-screensaver
Re: [Trisquel-users] Tweaks to optimize user friendliness
hmm, why did the format not remain, when posted?
Re: [Trisquel-users] A one person Linux distro departs
Well this might be good news for the Crunchbang communityIt appears Blag 21K (http://blagblagblag.org/) will use Openbox as their default WM. Various DE's will be available during install (XFCE, LXDE, Mate, Gnome), however, if the DE is left unchecked then it will install an optimized Openbox session by default. This could be a good replacement for Crunchbang.
