Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
Archiving email is hard. I don't blame you for not saving it.
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
"small sign" "2,4 billion people" Sorry for the mistakes. I could not edit now.
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
< I also though know that it would be complicated to implement what your asking. Not complicated at all, and in fact it is something necessary. Freedom of expression is something essential but as a lawyer I also know that any freedom has the limit of respecting the rights of others. Only in this case can a tolerant and free society exist. "My freedom ends where the freedom of others ends". If this cannot be enforced freedom that not exist. In this case the collision is against Freedom of religion. < I would also add though Christianity has been misused ALOT... I understand why they are skeptical, given the nature of people like hitler and the crusades, etc, It happens that in an institution like the Church having more than 2000 years there have been very big errors made by people who clearly has abused . I would also like to point out that Hitler was not Christian, he was a pagan whose main aim was to destroy Christianity as it was completely opposed of Nazi's ideas. This all is well documented in the pagan rituals of the SS. If Hitler some time procured to get well with Christianity was just for the purpose of regaining the power and not finding another adversary in the opposition of billion people around the world if he declared his ideas openly. That is the reason why having the control of Rome and willing to kidnap the Pope he never dared to do so and he always respected that one of the limits of his power was to respect the limits of Vatican City. With regards to the errors that the Church as an institution may have done through History, as being composed of men with passions and errors and others that have clearly abused of Christianity for the sake of power, I need to point out that all the recent Pope's have ask forgiveness for all the errors that the Church and Christianity overall may have done in the past. On the other side Christianity has built Western civilization: creating the first universities, providing the first charitable organisations, the first hospitals, the first social assistance, supporting the education of poor people, etc... Although achieved through revolutionary means many of them, all the freedoms that we all enjoy in the Western world are just a consequence of the secularisation of the Christian way of thinking. They could have never happen per se, as it has never been the case, in the context of any other culture. I understand that people just got a first impression about something regarding the bad things, but those things really does not represent what Christianity is about. If they really want to learn to appreciate Christianity they should have an eye towards the life of the saints or to the great achievements that Christianity has achieved in History on behalf of Humanity. < Stallman is an atheist also by the way... As the Holy Father recently said, God is ok with people being atheist if they really think in their hearts that is the Truth and they try to live life being better persons in accordance with what they hearlty think it is the Truth. < Sometimes people need to see a light for a long period of time to change. I have no problem with that but in the meantime they do not need to be purposely offensive towards the religion of others. Making fun about Christianity may be easy as long as Christianity is a religion of tolerance which does preach having love for opponent to it, but I am just curious if they would dare to do also with regards to other religions? I don't think so. On the other side I do not expect anyone "to change" as you said after a period of time. For me it is enough everyone believes in what he/she truly thinks it is the Truth in this life (including atheism), respecting all others and trying to be good persons. < We need to not be easily offended, revenge is the Lord's as God has said. I do not have revenge against anyone I just ask for respect towards religious feelings of people ... Not just for my religion, but for all.
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
I am somewhat hopeful that they decide to bite the bullet and jump T8 straight to LTS 18.04 base.
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
With Ubuntu 18.04 LTS coming out in April, should focus go towards "Trisquel 9" instead? I know there are a lot of users on Trisquel 7 and upgrading will be hard, but maybe its good to have a fresh start? Gnome and KDE are mature of course. MATE, XFCE, and even Budgie will be good to go as well. I'd love it if the Trisquel team paid attention to the Ubuntu 18.04 alphas/betas and used it as a codebase to prep for a swift launch of "Trisquel 9" soon after Ubuntu 18.04.
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
I would agree that CHRIST IS GOD. I also though know that it would be complicated to implement what your asking. I would also add though Christianity has been misused ALOT... I understand why they are skeptical, given the nature of people like hitler and the crusades, etc, You don't even know these people after all. They speak with some ignorance but like me they share one thing in common, they know that proprietary software is a dangerous threat. Stallman is an atheist also by the way... Sometimes people need to see a light for a long period of time to change. Others won't change no matter what happens. Which is sad, but we cannot do anything about it. Only God can... My last point though, just speak your peace like I did way above and let God convict them in their hearts. Remember, love doesn't force or keep records of wrongs. Defending is fine, but don't let your heart be troubled. We need to not be easily offended, revenge is the Lord's as God has said. Peace be with you though.
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
@vltr I am not a Jedi, at best, perhaps a Jawa (or maybe Minifree and Technoethical are Jawas). Our computers would be our droids. Some droids work for the Empire, some work for us. I use Libre technology and help others install and use it as well but am not a developer per se. But there are Jedi's out there. I have seen it before. I would have a hardware issue with my computer and go on an IRC looking for help. Research would show I have no driver and none exists, and some IRC lurker from nowhere just makes and sends me the driver I need and then I never hear from her/him again. THAT is a freakin' Jedi. They come in all shapes and walks and all disciplines. Just people who step into your life to fix something, even though there is no personal gain, and dissapear. Sometimes people go to the dark side and write propritary software, but then, like the guy who founded Audacity, use their oodles of proprietary profit to make Audacity. It is good to be skeptical of binarisms. There needs to be an equilibrium, but as it stands, there is none. We are are in a world where free (as in freedom) hard and software is an exception rather than the rule. We need to restore a balance to society and level the playing field a bit...make that level it a lot. As for The Force. Let me tell you a story; whenever Harrison Ford was told by fans, "Use the force!" His reply was, "Force yourself. "
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
Sorry, for changing my post. Before I wrote just making some jokes about a fictional and popular movie. However as I began to read other posts I found very unrespectful posts towards Christianity here. For me it was not a surprise who were some of the authors of those posts, but anyway I please ask the moderators here to respect the religions of others. As for my case, even thought I respect any religion in this world which may contradict Christianity I must say that for me: CHRIST IS GOD. Sorry for using capitals but having into account that no one here moderates a minimum level of respect towards religious feelings here, I have felt compelled to use them as trying to defend the dignity of a faith shared by over 2.4 million people in this world.
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
I'm not Ikhider, but in my humble opinion... "the force" would be software systems & networks people use. Perhaps even the world wide web itself. "the dark side" would be companies that find new and innovative ways to restrict people, repeatedly charge money for something users could already do, and profit from selling user data/patent trolling. That said, I don't think it is helpful to divide users. If you tell people they're bad for making a choice instead of explaining why it hurts them and suggest alternatives, they're not going to listen to you. While in principle I like the idea of being a jedi, staying single the rest of my life doesn't sound quite so fun... :D
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
Dear I khider: As everything that you say in this forum, your commentary just led me to make a reflection. My words may sound strange but being this night in France far from my beautiful Spain I took your words as a shortcut to enter in a fictional but welcoming reality. As usually I agree with most of the things that you express here, however I am philosophically intrigued about the parallel reality that your words sketched. Being all of us in a parallel world where RMS would be Obi Wan and you all guys the Jedis... I am sure I am an inexperienced but well intentioned and dedicated padawan. However I am philosophically intrigued about the following questions: In this situation what should we consider the nature of "the force" to be ? What would be the dark side? Many thanks in advance for the work of your neurones :D
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
But Zimmerman also does ads for banks and luxury cars. The times, they are a-changin'. : - (
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
@marioxcc This is an interesting comment. It is valid to question authority, to say, 'hey, you are preaching but not practicing.' Stallman put in his time. He has been writing free software for years, since the 70's. Like teams of people would write proprietary software and Stallman, alone, would write the free version. Freakin' awesome. Stallman now has carpal tunnel syndrome from typing on those oldschool keyboards for years and years. Also, he is getting up there in age. He can rest and preach a little. He has earned it. Further, if you know Stallman, he does not live a luxurious lifestyle. Do you see what he wears? Do you see the cars he drives? Despite the memes on-line, Stallman is not drowning in groupies. There are geeks who want to pick his brain, but that is the extent of it. Stallman lives a very simple life with a very simple computer, preaching free (as in Freedom) software. He could be making buckets of money at some corporation, but he chose otherwise. Now is the time for young people to take over the coding stuff, but Stallman can still be our Obi Wan. Here is a bio on Stallman published by O'Reilly: http://www.oreilly.com/openbook/freedom/ch01.html I think there is another bio out there too. Read this too: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/fsfs/rms-essays.pdf
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
@marioxcc This is an interesting comment. It is valid to question authority, to say, 'hey, you are preaching but not practicing.' Stallman put in his time. He has been writing free software for years, since the 70's. Like teams of people would write proprietary software and Stallman, alone, would write the free version. Freakin' awesome. Stallman now has carpal tunnel syndrome from typing on those oldschool keyboards for years and years. Also, he is getting up there in age. He can rest and preach a little. He has earned it. Further, if you know Stallman, he does not live a luxurious lifestyle. Do you see what he wears? Do you see the cars he drives? Despite the memes on-line, Stallman is not drowning in groupies. There are geeks who want to pick his brain, but that is the extent of it. Stallman lives a very simple life with a very simple computer, preaching free (as in Freedom) software. He could be making buckets of money at some corporation, but he chose otherwise. Now is the time for young people to take over the coding stuff, but Stallman can still be our Obi Wan. Here is a bio on Stallman published by O'Reilly: http://www.oreilly.com/openbook/freedom/ch01.html I think there is another bio out there too. Read this too: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/fsfs/rms-essays.pdf
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
So am I! I'll always have the treasured memory of having a back-and-forth over email I had with him though for a Linux Format magazine cover feature back in 2009. (You can see the online version here: http://www.tuxradar.com/content/make-linux-faster-and-lighter) 18 year old me was a little frustrated that he wouldn't give me a productivity tip until I demonstrated that I understood the FSF and its mission. 26 year old me is annoyed I didn't save a copy of the exchange :D
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
> what has he personally contributed in the last year to free software? What do you understand by contribute? Are translations, conferences, talks, proposals, tests, advices, etc. software contributions for you?
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
With respect, Ubuntu 16.04 LTS won't be "outdated" when Trisquel 8 releases. It will be supported with hardware and maintenance updates until late 2018, and it will continue receiving maintenance updates until 2021. See https://www.ubuntu.com/info/release-end-of-life. I agree though that there is a bit of a deadline looming for Trisquel 8, because 14.04 LTS will be "end of life" in early 2019. Bear in mind though that you can also still run newer packages than those provided in the package manager by installing the project-supplied PPAs. I've only recently started using Trisquel GNU/Linux, but I'm hopeful I can find ways to contribute. :)
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
I would consider it a honour to dine with Happy Gnu and I'm STILL jealous!
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
What a pleasure to dine with RMS! I'm jealous.
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
heh, I would feast like a drunk donkey with RMS and would surely make sure to make sure the wallet is fat e fast. :P
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
SuperTramp83 said: >never had the privilege to feast with RMS :'( Well, you might want to keep in hand the good old antacid medicine..LOL "DON'T WORRY AND BE READY TO PAID FOR IT :SINCE HE IS A SANTO" lol
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
My words exactly. ;) 2017-11-08T14:46:12+0100 leestro...@gmail.com wrote: > I think this is an excellent attitude from happy_gnu. For all those > calling for Trisquel 8, saying "where is it? why is it so late?": it's > only going to happen if *you*(/we) pick up a keyboard and devote our > time to making it happen. Spend some of our time coding/learn to code, > whatever we can do. We need to learn how to build and maintain this > distro ourselves - there is no magic grotto of coding gnomes that is > going to do it all for us. > > I would like to help out as well, if/when I can find some > time. (Personally, I've been building a Linux From Scratch System over > the past few weeks, so I can learn more about how a distro works under > the hood. It's a great resource and I highly recommend it.). > > The world needs a free-software version of Ubuntu, that is easy to use > and accessible for newer users. We all need to pull together to make > it happen!
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
Despite what I sometimes think of him on his thoughts towards God, without him, the four freedoms for software would not have happened. Truly you need to look at it from a different perspective. your judging him, and its not needed.
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
Well, if the story is true which I believe it is, then he didn't significantly more than you, or anyone else could imagine... his death gives us the option of heaven or hell. without it, we would all be damned and that's what the bible indicates... so if you are going to put it in context, at least do it all the way, you said if, he is real and then didn't go all the way in explaining what the story indicates to be true. so yeah... and as for the post above you, pure ignorance, not trying to be rude, but we would never lay our life on the line for people who bitterly hated us to that extreme without making one mistake during any part of our life. Jesus did that and that is why his death is significant. He also attempted to teach right and wrong, if you read the bible, even if you hated every other example of God, Jesus is the best he has to offer us. I hate to say it, but I think you just don't want to live to his standards just because its easier... and as such some of you *Not all of you* are filled with either hate for god or believe that he did terrible things in the bible or use the old testament as an excuse not to serve him, I appreciate some of you are good people, but without faith and love, we would all be evil. anyone can be as evil as hitler if they do not actively fight to challenge the evil within themselves. just gonna be honest. I know stallman is an atheist, but I must say, even if he is against god in his mind, god can use anyone to do good even people who think they hate him. i say think because people don't always realize what they are saying, you could say that you hate a particular person when in reality you miss then dearly and are afraid to admit it or feel like its too late and that's just a few options. while I am sure you will not pleased with this post, I just feel like I have to challenge bad ideas when I see them. that is a rule in the guidelines. well, I am doing that right now. I don't particularly like that you mock what you don't understand, but I will agree to disagree and that will be that if needed. Religion you say is evil, well if you mean a dead belief in god, yes. but if you mean all faith, then no. anyways I won't bore you any further, you can stick to your rational, I will stick to my faith and true rational thinking. peace be with you, regardless of your feelings. if you don't accept it, its your loss sadly...
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
>Correct. He gives himself a luxurious life as a traveler of the world's big cities, where people celebrate him for his past contributions (Emacs, GNU, the GNU GPL, etc.), achievements of an era long gone. The day you write the GPL, emacs, glibc and gcc I will send you on a luxurious travel in whatever big city of your choice be it the last penny..
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
"There is no reason for me to be nice when pointing people's mistakes. I am intentionally harsh, as it should be. Nobody deserves kind words for doing things wrong. That privilege is reserved to the occasions when people do things right (and I am nice in those situations)." So you have the unlimited ability to judge what's right and wrong from a completely objective point of view, and you're also some kind of educator who considers his own praising words a "privilege". ...disgusting. Even if you got a nobel price for amazing contributions to the world, your attitude would still be horrible and inappropriate. But you didn't. From what I've read in other threads, you're constantly overestimating yourself and are unwilling or unable to admit mistakes.
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/toxicity "an extremely harsh, malicious, or harmful quality" You describe your own language as harsh. It also is harmful and malicious. It is harmful to make use insipid or irrelevant comments as a distraction. You make many statements that are accurate or subjectively reasonable but do not form a complete argument. Because of this, others do not accept your conclusion. You deflect by accusing them of misunderstanding the individual statements, when the problem is that the statements do not form a logical progression toward proving your claim. You ignore everything in their response about which you can’t make additional tangentially related statements to avoid moving toward a conclusion. This is why these conversations go in circles. It is malicious to use the pretense of making an argument to berate others. Your use of a debate tactic that avoids progress toward a conclusion indicates that you are uninterested in persuading anyone to agree with you. Instead, it seems that each statement you make is an attempt to justify the subsequent insult by first demonstrating that you are articulate and presenting an irrelevant but superficially reasonable statement. Your defensiveness over virtually everything said to you, plus the fact that you are still so hung up on the password generation thread that you brought it up weeks later in an unrelated discussion, makes it painfully obvious that you are driven by insecurity rather than logic. You can disagree with my assessment, but I used the word “toxicity” correctly. I regret participating in this and will be checking out now. However, I want to acknowledge one thing you are absolutely right about, which is that distributing your project as free software is a meaningful contribution. I do respect you for that.
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
He was an intelligent man worthy of admiration. Now he is not. Old age is not an excuse. Just to give an example: Paul Erdős worked until the last of his days. He died when he was in a conference about mathematics.
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
> it is not enough of a "contribution" to be worth that amount of toxicity. Free feel to ignore my messages then. Taking into account that you use the word “toxicity” without even knowing what it means, your commentary would not be missed by me at all. There is no reason for me to be nice when pointing people's mistakes. I am intentionally harsh, as it should be. Nobody deserves kind words for doing things wrong. That privilege is reserved to the occasions when people do things right (and I am nice in those situations). > Pointing out your hypocrisy was a separate statement. As already stated, I contribute to free software, even though it is not my obligation. On the other hand, Stallman is obligated to contribute to free software since he is the director of the Free Software Foundation.What does he do? He spends his time traveling to expensive cities and living a luxurious life. That he spends a minuscule amount of time in each of his tour destinations spreading the word of free software is barely better than doing absolutely nothing; by far, it falls short of fulfilling his duty, let alone of making him a person worthy of admiration. > Magic Bananas argument was that RMS's time is better spent spreading information about free software [...] You failed to adequately address that argument and focused instead on the second statement, committing a red herring. If you refer to this quote: “Today, Stallman's advocacy is far more useful than the code he could contribute. Sure, what he says is on the Web.” this is beside my point: that Stallman does nothing to solve the problems he complains about. What has he done to replace Intel ME? Nothing; what is he doing about proprietary JS (no, he did not write LibreJS)? Nothing; what is he doing about proprietary computer-phones (“smart” phones) Nothing; what has he done about graphics cards which require proprietary drivers? Yet again, nothing!; and about proprietary updates of CPU firmware? take a guess; he does nothing (and again, addressing the problems that threaten freedom of computing is his moral duty as the leader of the Free Software Foundation).
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
Magic Banana is one of the most consistently helpful and valuable resources on this forum. You show up occasionally to take everything personally (to the point that you still haven't gotten over an argument from almost two months ago), become hostile, and derail the conversation. Even when you make the occasional factually correct statement or sound point, it is not enough of a "contribution" to be worth that amount of toxicity. By the way, it would only have been an ad hominem fallacy if Magic Banana's argument *relied* on personal criticism of you. If every time somebody criticized someone it were an ad hominem fallacy, then so would be all of your arguments criticizing RMS. Magic Bananas argument was that RMS's time is better spent spreading information about free software to many potential supporters and contributors than acting as a single contributor. Pointing out your hypocrisy was a separate statement. You failed to adequately address that argument and focused instead on the second statement, committing a red herring.
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
> It has everything to do with my critique to you. Not only you do far less than Stallman for free software but you feel entitled to call him lazy. Again this is the ad hominem fallacy. Given that you seem to not to understand this concept, do a simple web search (1, 2). That will bring plenty of web sites that will try to explain it to you. But probably no amount of explanations will suffice, as you have already proved that you are incapable of following arguments and of recognizing your mistakes when you recommended a security practice that would have been broken 2 decades ago and on top of that, defended it with ludicrous arguments. Whenever I make a contribution, I do so for the sake of the contribution itself, not for the credit, nor bragging, nor for proving my worth to anybody (which seems to be what you think). Thus I have absolutely no interest in discussing with you my contributions. I have only replied so far to you for the sake of other readers who may be misled by your comments. Since I have already given my arguments, my discussion with you ends here.
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
Bob Dylan is old and rusty. I'd hesitate to hear of any new songs from him because I'm sure he can't surpass his young self anymore. Bob's old accomplishments are undiminished in their artistic value regardless.
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
>GNU Emacs alone is sufficient to earn RMS a place in history. Stallman did not write what is currently GNU Emacs. Many people did. His contribution is tiny. It is a common mistake to give most of the credit of a project to the first person who participated. When projects become big enough to be noteworthy, any individual contributor has only done a small part (in proportion). > Let alone his other projects/initiatives, GNU and GPL. Just as a above, GNU is not Stallman work. It is the work of many people and he is just one of the many contributors. It is worth noting that the FSF requires Copyright assignment for the most important GNU software (GCC, coreutils, etc.), but the FSF does not pay for this development. > What did Jesus ever do but die on the cross? If the fictitious personage of Jesus (the superhero/supervillain from the Christian tale) is based on a historical (real) person, and this person died crucified, then he is just another victim of the brutality of the Romans; he would be far from the only one and his death does not benefit us in any way. For that matter, the Roman Marcus Licinius Crassus crucified thousands of slaves for rebelling, which is by far a much greater tragedy.
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
While I don't think what RMS does is perfect by any means, I don't see how him going back to programming would be helpful. No offense to the man, but he's old and rusty. He would probably contribute little there. I think he's right to focus on campaigning. He's decent enough at that, though I have some nitpicks about how he goes about it.
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
> Stallman has been spreading the word about free software. All around the world. Correct. He gives himself a luxurious life as a traveler of the world's big cities, where people celebrate him for his past contributions (Emacs, GNU, the GNU GPL, etc.), achievements of an era long gone. Oh, and as part of his never-ending voyage he talks (sometimes for hours) about a topic that is literally a few clicks away from nearly anybody (there is plenty of information about free software online). > He thinks new issues and writes about them too: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/essays-and-articles.html This is just an euphemism for “he complains about what is wrong with computers (w.r.t. software freedom) and asks that other people (never him!) do something about it!”. What has he done to solve the problems that he complains about: Intel ME, graphic cards firmware, proprietary JS, etc.? As far as I know, nothing. > What have you "personally contributed in the last year to free software"? Should I call you "lazy and unwilling to move a finger"? First, note that what I do has no bearing on my critique to Stallman. Believing otherwise would be the ad hominem fallacy. In the last year I have contributed mostly fixes of software errors (the so called “bugs”) to existing free software projects. In a public project I have published computer-verified proofs in higher order logic (HOL4, specifically). However I will not elaborate on my contributions because again this is irrelevant to the discussion.
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
This is very good!!! Thank you both magic banana and Mampir. Can we talk over email or can we talk in IRC ? Email: happy_gnu @ teknik.do IRC and Riot: happy_gnu
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
Emacs alone is sufficent to earn RMS a place in history. Let alone his other projects/initiatives, GNU and GPL. The four freedoms. What did Jesus ever do but die on the cross?
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
“He looked at me and said... "I want Trisquel 8 too.."” As is typical of Stallman, he complains and says what he wants to be done, but does not do anything about it. Although he has done real work in the past, now he is lazy and unwilling to move a finger (think about it: what has he personally contributed in the last year to free software?).
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
> I know Trisquel 8 is too late already, but Ubuntu 18.04 is close, maybe if I learn enough during the next few months I can help a lot to Trisquel 9 happen sooner than later. > I have a lot of free time so I can use a few daily hours to learn and help. I want to ask you to point me on the right direction, what should I read, what should I learn. Please send me all that you can even if I need to learn on Debian or Ubuntu documentation. Or learn Bash or anything.[/quote] I think this is an excellent attitude from happy_gnu. For all those calling for Trisquel 8, saying "where is it? why is it so late?": it's only going to happen if *you*(/we) pick up a keyboard and devote our time to making it happen. Spend some of our time coding/learn to code, whatever we can do. We need to learn how to build and maintain this distro ourselves - there is no magic grotto of coding gnomes that is going to do it all for us. I would like to help out as well, if/when I can find some time. (Personally, I've been building a Linux From Scratch System over the past few weeks, so I can learn more about how a distro works under the hood. It's a great resource and I highly recommend it.). The world needs a free-software version of Ubuntu, that is easy to use and accessible for newer users. We all need to pull together to make it happen!
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
This is the link to the repo on Framagit: https://framagit.org/smoha/trisqueldev
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
Ah... git... indeed. Actually, any general notion of how version control works. In the college where I study, people around all courses/degrees have the need for version control systems like git, although no course is being offered for that and they don't know what it is. I might offer an introduction to it next year depending on how much patience, time and money I have in my hands. ;) When I say "all courses/degrees", I really mean it. Even those seeking a Bachelor's degree in business administration, as is my case. ;) One of the things I like about git is that differentiation only works with plain text files by default. For me, this isn't a problem since I write documents, presentations and spreadsheets in Org mode (with some parts in LaTeX), and diagrams or other figures in TikZ. Sometimes I use Inkscape to draw to a .svg file or GNU Dia to the same effort, but I avoid both because I find them hard to remember the structure if I'm writting to them using a text editor, and because it's hard to remember their markup. There are ways to make git do differentiations with non-text files, and this does make sense with images in common formats (using ImageMagick, which marks the spots) and for .pdf (using diffoscope). But for other things --- including files from office suits/suites and multimedia projects --- attempting to differentiate stuff will probably be much easier by checking out the older version, copying it somewhere else, checking out "master" again, and opening both the old and new versions manually and having a detailed verification. megve...@parabola.nu writes: > grep, sed, awk, diff and patch > > Looks like no one remembered git :) > > I'm open to help by giving gratis lessons on the above (or related) > topics - > I'm a teacher and I enjoy explaining stuff. :) > > But would be for helping Trisquel only? I'd like to contribute, but > I'm too busy with Parabola. > > I wanna learn C, mainly because I work a lot with kernels and Linux is > written in C. >
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
grep, sed, awk, diff and patch Looks like no one remembered git :) I'm open to help by giving gratis lessons on the above (or related) topics - I'm a teacher and I enjoy explaining stuff. :) But would be for helping Trisquel only? I'd like to contribute, but I'm too busy with Parabola. I wanna learn C, mainly because I work a lot with kernels and Linux is written in C.
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
That cool! :) Unfortunately I don't use slides or anything like that when I teach, so I don't have any files I can share...
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
You should definitely learn Bash and there are many tutorials around the Internet for that. You should lean basic usage for command-line tools like grep, sed, awk, diff and patch. You should also learn how Deb packaging works, for which there should be tutorials on the Ubuntu and Debian wiki, and probably in other places too. General understanding of how GNU/Linux systems work is good to have. Stuff like file system hierarchy, mounting, partitioning, types of file systems and file owners/permissions. Also, it's probably not mandatory, but it may be useful to have some basic knowledge how C/C++ programming and compiling works. If you (or anyone else) is really up of for doing this, I'm open to help by giving gratis lessons on the above (or related) topics - I'm a teacher and I enjoy explaining stuff. :) The effort to help Trisquel development is useful, although in my opinion it would be more useful to develop a better beginner-friendly installer for Parabola, because it seems to me that's the main thing that Trisquel/Ubuntu do better and make them more beginner friendly. I think the general architecture of Parabola/Arch is better overall and Parabola is already well maintained.
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
I'm referring to how development of LibreCMC was funded). From what i gather on https://librecmc.org/faq.html Are libreCMC developers paid? No, libreCMC developers are not paid. All the work they do on the project is on their own time at will. Does the libreCMC project get funding? Yes and no. Currently, libreCMC will get 20% of router sales from ThinkPenguin, Inc after all router stock has been sold. Funds received by the project are used for development hardware and tools to add new build targets. At this time, libreCMC does not receive money from any source and does not pay developers. No comparison is possible with Red Hat Enterprise 2017 Revenue: $629 million, in September, shares jumped more than 4.2 percent after the company’s second-quarter earnings report topped market expectations.. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/27/red-hat-earnings-q4-2017.html https://www.benzinga.com/analyst-ratings/analyst-color/17/09/10103541/wall-street-weighs-in-on-red-hats-impressive-quarter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hat Red Hat Enterprise revenue is x628 times the one of the FSF !
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
I don't see how the condition of a distro's forum means a distro is dead. I mean, you sound like one of those "is slackware dead" posts (it's not, they just update their news very, very, very, very seldom - that plus they don't even run a forum (that said I'm on Slackware at the moment so...yeah)
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
>I'm certain that most will prefer the convenience of clicking "Add Applications" in Trisquel and easily installing a stable version of each tool they need. The software repository was, I remember, the thing that really made me fall in love with gnu when I installed my first distro. I mean, being able to install and upgrade your software with a liner.. something a windose mateson will never know. poor windose mateson :( Security and convenience! \o/
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
You're right. I should have compared programs rather than the OS, but programs are no different. While I used Windows 7 it never even occurred to me to seek out newer versions of MS Office or VLC. The basic programs that normal people need haven't required new features in years. When programs update themselves automatically (iTunes, web browsers) it is an annoyance rather than a feature. Normal people just want bug fixes and security updates and don't find newer versions of software appreciably different apart from having to get used to changes to the UI. I'm certain that most will prefer the convenience of clicking "Add Applications" in Trisquel and easily installing a stable version of each tool they need.
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
Right, and that's why it's hard. Another more realistic way is the Think Penguin approach: fund development of an OS to use on computers you sell (I'm referring to how development of LibreCMC was funded).
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
Totally agree, though https://www.redhat.com/en/about is a big fish "model".
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
Or, if the services aren't wanted, they could be a burdensome overhead that prevents OS work from getting done. There are better ways, like the Red Hat model, to make developing a libre OS into a business, but it's not easy.
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
>Windows 7 (from 2009) isn't too old for them, and Trisquel 7 (2014) isn't either. Well that is not a fair comparison.. Most Windows useds never see the OS, they don't use the OS but the programs, and they can install the newest version of any program without even been aware of the concept of 'dependencies', so in a way, practically speaking their OS is way newer than 2009. A trisquel user must compile or, worse, use a ppa, eww.
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
A solution could be to have a Libre distribution offering paid services, such as VPN, Web Hosting, email service, thus having an income that could be partly used to pay salary(ies) of one to two developer(s) to maintain that distribution. I'm sure if tomorow Trisquel offered these services, it could be selfsubstainable and maybe an even profitable enterprise.
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
I think that it is ok to speak, but in my personal opinion it should bring also something that helps. I don't agree with people that complain and do nothing. If you really think that this project is dead why do you come here in the first place? It is not to censor your ideas, but if you really think that this project is doomed you better spend your time doing what you like and makes you feel good. You could try to be proactive and try to contact the developers. I already installed the 8 and I am using it, this is also a kind of help indirectly to the project. PS I also don't like the plus minus votes, I give only plus when I like the ideas. We are not kids here and we should always be responsible for what we say regardless our point of view. Sometimes I critize post where I see that people present distorted facts or personal ideas as facts and if I can demonstrate this I do. But I try to respect in general the people.
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
Too the one who used the "Rating too low" thing on my post.. Use that stupid and unfair instrument will not change the truth: Trisquel is dead and your beloved RMS is between those to blame for it. And beetwen them there is also you and all the others who have ever used "Rating too low". This is one of the reasons why this community is so small. In this forums is not important if you care about freedom or free software. It cares if you write "Gnu Linux" instead of "Linux". It cares if you never go agaist what your saint Richard Stallman says. In this forum you are not even able to close your account: once is forever In this forum someone could decide (with no right at all) that your post has to be censored In forums the appropriate way to do that is to have a moderator to decide what can go public and what can not. And every post which respects the forums guidelines HAVE to go public. Even if the moderator does not like or does not agree with the contenent. It is called freedom, something you often talk about but that does not apply to your forums. That's all. And now go on and "Rating too low" also this one.. truth will not change
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
I would like to see more libre distros, with different specialist uses in mind. For example, there is the GOLD project I have proposed for a libre distro specifically tailored for the needs of gamers. I understand that there is a trade-off involved, more distros means more work to be done, usually by volunteers. But it also means more users getting their needs met by libre distros, and thus using and valuing them, and maybe donating time/ money to help them. If there are any ways to simplify the work and infrastructure involved in running a distro, and make it easier for us mere mortals to help out, that would be great for the whole GNU-Linux world. Imagine if we could get to the point where one person, with intermediate GNU-Linux skills, could maintain a device-specific distro for a device they own!
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
I am unaware of another libre distro that is fully functional without at least occasional use of a terminal or other tools with which the majority with people do not know how to use. They should not have to learn to use these tools in order to be free. They just want something that works. Windows 7 (from 2009) isn't too old for them, and Trisquel 7 (2014) isn't either. It is irresponsible to suggest that Trisquel be "removed" when it is suitable, and currently the only path to freedom, for most desktop users.
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
I think that many people don't understand the philosophy of the given from free time, of the volunteering and they just complain all the time without offering real help. I guess it is the human nature complaining. I could understand if Trisquel was a payed service. It is not. It is from the free iniziative of some developers. So honestly I don't understand. Nobody that is saying, ehi I have a lot of energies and time and I could help. I don't have time working 15 hours some days, but I also don't complain.
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
Trisquel 7.0 is dated now. Trisquel 8.0 is overdue, still unreleased and will be outdated if it ever is released, as it is based on a Ubuntu LTS which is soon to be superceded. I think many people would agree that Ruben doesn't have the time he needs to continue to maintain Trisquel as it currently exists. It should therefor change to a rolling release distribution model or another maintainer should be found to either assist or replace Ruben. Has it been stated somewhere that a prolonged release schedule is part of Trisquel's philosophy? If so, what is the rationale behind that? If not, is there some considerable advantage to being so far behind in development to outweigh the bugfixes? Sadly, I am coming to a conclusion that Trisquel is a zombie project. Nothing puts it out of its misery. It still keeps lumbering on, but to what end? The sap has ceased to rise. Trisquel is doing more to block vibrant growth in the Free software community. It needs to be reinvograted or removed.
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
I agree 100%
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
Thanks for sharing this. I've also been using Parabola lately and recommending it occasionally in this forum. This post was a good reminder of how important it is to support Trisquel. Advanced users have multiple libre options, but all users deserve freedom and Trisquel is perhaps the only sufficiently accessible libre option. I do prefer a rolling release, but if I'm honest with myself, only a handful of packages in Belenos are too old for me, and I can install the newest versions of these with Guix. I'll try out Flidas on my x60 tonight.
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
I think that at some point the automation will allow to keep up with the main distribution (ubuntu) releasing at the same time. I am wondering which tools are used to automate the releases and the builds. I see that they use jenkins for the builds.
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
Hi happy_gnu RMS really should not hope for Trisquel 8 to be released since he is the one who (indirectly) caused the delay. "Poor Ruben" can't dedicate enough time to his petty project since when he started working for FSF (aka RMS petty project). If he really cares about Trisquel he should add "working on Trisquel" in Ruben weekly schedule. Something like Transmeta did when they did employed Torvalds giving him time to work on Linux as regular part of his job. RMS is probably the only one who could do something to resurrect the Trisquel project. I have used the word "resurrect" because, like or not, Trisquel is dead.. Long life to Trisquel
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
I have been watching on a nonfree pen testing distro, BlackArch, with appending this into Parabola (both pacman based) I am facing the same problem with the Deb contrib channel, security tools themselves are free but dependent on nonfree (from every main Arch channels, if also appended to existing nonfree Arch derivatives) like VirtualBox.
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
Thanks for the links. Interesting for me is: the process is automated but before to upload the changes to the repos they are tested locally. This means there is a pretty active development. I installed Trisquel 8 and every day updates come in.
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
Just a public "Welcome home" to the Trisquel boards and a mention of the fact that I didn't think my opinion of rms could improve but it did yesterday. Please don't underestimate yourself. St. iGNUcious agrees with me on this one. :)
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
>never had the privilege to feast with RMS :'(
Re: [Trisquel-users] I met RMS yesterday. We talked about Trisquel 8, this is what he said...
He said something like it should not be too hard, Parabola uses Debian packages, so helping Parabola is learning to package stuff for Debian, removing non-free dependencies and building the package on Trisquel. (Something like that, blame my ignorance and not RMS if something is wrong with that sentence). Pff what a horrible mistake (thanks Tirifto for pointing out) He said something like it should not be too hard, Trisquel uses Debian packages, so helping Trisquel is learning to package stuff for Debian, removing non-free dependencies and building the package on Trisquel. (Something like that, blame my ignorance and not RMS if something is wrong with that sentence).
