date:20060322









Anyone who has a problem with it. iz











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 9:21
PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism





Whom do you ask the guys who think DM  Judy are Fundies?

ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

If fundamental Christianity is a problem for you, of what spirit are
you? iz

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:15 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

DM says In case you did not notice, the fundamentalists are not causing
the acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden in schools. It is
the liberal loonies like this Archbishop of Canterbury who are doing
this.

Some around here are concerned that there are FUNDIES lurking
around
every keyboard on TT.
Perhaps these previous comments are a incantation meant to flush them
out into the open.
One can never be to prepared to protect oneself from fundaMENTALism!

--- David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

 John wrote:
  The world in which we live would reject 
  any mention of God in the evolutionary process, 
  IMO. But creationism in the schools? Could 
  that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical 
  fundamentalist take-over of the culture? 
 
 ROTFLOL. I sure hope you were being facetious on purpose.
 
 John wrote:
  But to allow a mere statement that suggests God 
  is somehow in control as the Creator(?) If this 
  could be presented into the secular system of 
  education without it being coopted by the fundies 
  -- go for it. But I doubt that it can. What a shame 
  that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom forces 
  the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful opportunity 
  to introduce the Creator to others. 
 
 In case you did not notice, the fundamentalists are not causing the
 acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden in schools. It is the
 liberal loonies like this Archbishop of Canterbury who are doing
 this.
 
 David Miller
 


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Re: [TruthTalk] Physics, Astronomy and Genesis chapters 1-11

DH says perhaps the pain of being separated from the love of the Lord can also reside within one's heart. Interesting Pain can reside within, but not God? Surely the LDS god can not reside in ones heart because as a man with a Body he just will not fit!Dwell in your heart? 1835 DC 130:3 says, The idea that the Father and the Son dwell in a mans heart is an old sectarian notion, and is false. BUT 1830 Alma 34:36, it says, And this I know, because the Lord hath said he dwelleth not in unholy temples, but in the hearts of the righteous doth he dwell.
The TRUTH on PRAYER! 1998 Elder Bruce R. McConkie clearly explained what our relationship with each member of the Godhead should be, pointing out that some misguided members of the Church may begin to pray directly to Christ because of some special friendship they feel has been developed with him. This is wrong, said Elder McConkie. We should pray directly to the Father... The Ensign, June 1998, p. 591830 ...Jesus came and stood in the midst...he spake unto the multitude, and commanded them that they should kneel down again upon the earth, and also that his disciples should kneel down upon the earth. And it came to pass that when they had all knelt down upon the earth, he commanded his disciples that they should
pray. And behold, they began to pray; and they did pray unto Jesus, calling him their Lord and their God. 3 Nephi 19:15-18THE TRUTH on WORSHIP! 1830 And now behold, I say unto you that the right way is to believe in Christ... wherefore ye must bow down before him, and worship him with all your might, mind, and strength, and your whole soul; and if ye do this ye shall in nowise be cast out. 2 Nephi 25:291986 We Worship the Father... In an official interpretation of Moses 1:6, the First Presidency (Joseph F. Smith, Anthon H. Lund, And Charles W. Penrose) said: But the sole object of worship, God the eternal Father, stands supreme and alone... Who is the sole object of worship?... President George Q. Cannon taught: ...We
know also that our Father in Heaven should be the object of our worship... He will not have any divided worship. We are commanded to worship Him, and Him only. (Gospel Truth, 1:135) Come Unto Christ Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, 1986, p. 46-47Joe refutes the BoM! or BoM True or not? 1830 For I know that God is not a partial God, neither a changeable being; but he is unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity.Moroni 8:18 ...the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was, and is from all eternity to all etnernity...Mosiah 3:5 1844 We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that
idea,...he was once a man like usTeachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 345-346More LDS Evolution of God1830 Modalistic ONE god 1835 two gods 1844 Plural gods Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DAVEH: Ayou are beginning to realize my point, Izzy. Likewise, if the torment of hell is not a literal burning lake of brimstone, then perhaps the pain of being separated from the love of the Lord can also reside within one's heart.ShieldsFamily wrote: It has not been quenched. It is alive today in my heart. izzyDAVEH: I would think anybody who understands that the argument of using a burning bush as evidence to prove that God is capable of creating an unquenchable fire is a bit weak if that unquenchable fire (burning bush) has been quenched.ShieldsFamily wrote: Yours?DAVEH: Not at all, Izzy. It is simply an observation of illogic.ShieldsFamily wrote: Oh, I guess God forgot how to do that particular trick, eh? izDoesn't that teach us something about God's abilities of creating an unquenchable fire? DAVEH: Only if the bush is still burning.David Miller wrote: DaveH, I agree with Judy here. The argument of a "literal impossibility" is a little weak when we are talking about God. Moses did see a bush that was burning but not consumed. Doesn't that teach us something about God's abilities of creating an unquenchable fire?David
MillerWhy try to confuse Conor right off the bat Lance? Genesis is not a "science book" per se.Although
the writer of Genesis is also the God who created all that is called "science"Are you asking Conor to interpret Genesis in the light of Astronomy and Physics?Just this morning I read this interaction between DaveH and KevinD (I think) ...KD: That is explained by the fire and brimstone imagery that is in reality endless torment.a fire which cannot be consumed, even an unquenchable fireDAVEH: More imagery that is physically an impossibility. Fire can be extinguished, whereasmental torment can go on forever.So tell me - What is a physical impossibility for God? The same God who delivered what he
hadpromised to Abraham and Sarah when they were 90 and 100yrs old respectively. A God who wasable to roll back the Red Sea until his people

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

That would be JD LanceThey use the term as a pejorative I think they are afraid of FundamentalistsShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Anyone who has a problem with it. izFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin DeeganSent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 9:21 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE:
[TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on CreationismWhom do you ask the guys who think DM Judy are Fundies?ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If fundamental Christianity is a problem for you, of what spirit are you? iz-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin DeeganSent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:15 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on CreationismDM says In case you did not notice, the fundamentalists are not causingthe acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden in schools. It isthe liberal loonies like this Archbishop of Canterbury who are doingthis.Some around here are concerned that there are "FUNDIES" lurking aroundevery keyboard on TT.Perhaps these previous comments are a incantation meant to flush themout into the open.One can never be to prepared to protect oneself from fundaMENTALism!--- David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: John wrote: The world in which we live would reject any mention of God in the evolutionary process, IMO. But creationism in the schools? Could that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical
fundamentalist take-over of the culture? ROTFLOL. I sure hope you were being facetious on purpose. John wrote: But to allow a mere statement that suggests God is somehow in control as the Creator(?) If this could be presented into the secular system of education without it being coopted by the fundies -- go for it. But I doubt that it can. What a shame that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom forces the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful opportunity to introduce the Creator to others. In case you did not notice, the fundamentalists are not causing the acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden in schools. It is the liberal loonies like this Archbishop of Canterbury who are doing this. David Miller
__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may knowhow you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have afriend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Yahoo! MailUse Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of
spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

David:'PROVEN'? 'ERROR' In the light of 'orthodox' thought concerning the 
Triune nature of God David, it is an heresy. It'd appear to be an heresy 
that is a part of YOUR BELIEVE CONCERNING THE TRIUNE NATURE OF GOD but, that 
does not change what it is in this context.

- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 21, 2006 13:14
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

Excuse me, John, but nobody has proven that modalism is an error, so how 
can
you use the word repent in regards to this?  Do you really think it is a 
sin

for someone to think modalism is useful in understanding the Godhead?

David Miller

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

In short, Modalism  !!

Modalism
The error that there is only one person in the Godhead who manifests
himself in three forms or manners:  Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
REPENT  --  HURRY !!

jd

-- Original message -- 
From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]

GOD IS ONE; JESUS SAID I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE
More accurately, one person in three manifestations

On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 06:27:25 -0500 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
ONE GOD IN THREE PERSONS
From: ShieldsFamily

Unity in Diversity.
Fatness in Skinniness.
Ugliness in Beauty.
Dumbness in Intelligence.
Wisdom in Nonsense.
Jibberish in Eloquence.

iz

If your idea were so JD then Jesus would have prayed make them unity in
diversity just as we are ...
I see that nowhere in scripture.  Jesus said if someone had seen him they
had seen the Father
because he did only what he first saw the Father do and he said only what 
he

first heard from the
Father.  This is the kind of unity he was praying about JD.  Unifying 
around

rebellion is what the
end times harlot church is all about.

On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 07:11:21 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

We shall be one as He and the Father are one, someday, Judy.   Right now,
unity inspite of diversity is all we've got.
Because you and I are not of the same Christ does not mean that unity in
diversity does not exist.  jd
From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Agreed!  I to hate all the isms and all the ologies.
In fact I don't see why we can not lay them aside so that we may recognize
the faith
once delivered to the saints and walk in Truth or reality.  Jesus was 
not

referring to any
Unity in diversity in John 17. He prayed they would be One as He and the
Father are One
Is Unity in diversity how you see the Godhead or Trinity? JD

On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 05:33:59 -0500 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Sectarianism! Amen! Have you (of course you have) taken note of those who 
so
identify others as sectarians while their group (sect) is thus reflective 
of

a repristinated gospel. They seem themselves as 'recovering' the truth.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

It has occurred to me that legalism, although unattractive as it is, is 
not

my real complaint.  Henceforth and forever more,  I will be opposed to
sectarianism.  The legal content of the sectarian is often different  --
but the sectarian is the same kind of cat, regardless of his/her stripes.
They are the ones who oppose the unity concerns expressed by Christ in 
John

17. There can be unity in diversity.  In sectarian circles,  the only
unity that exists is one borne of the fear of reprisal.  jd

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

One other thought on the creation thread.   I wrote my remarks more 
because
of Conor than for any other reason.   My comments can stand on their own, 
I

believe.  I do not believe in a 6000 year old earth nor do I beleive the
bible teaches such  -  for the reasons stated.  Could the earth be only 
6000
years old.   I suppose so, but only the sectarians beleive such,  IMHO. 
Is

God the creator?   Now that is the real question.   I would think we all
agree on the answer to that question.

End of the matter for me.   And, so, the opportunity to delve into the
character of the opponent is side tracked.Motivation be damned  --  in 
a

biblical sense , of course.

jd

From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

John wrote:
 To your first question , no.

If I get time, I will try and present some of it for you.

John wrote:
 To your second question, either you
 did not read my post or you have
 decided to insult my presentation?

I read your post very carefully. I am not trying to insult you at all.
Most of your argument revolves around why we should consider using a

 gt; figurative meaning. This is the approach I hear from most Bible
scholars,

but the pressure for doing this seems to come from science not good
theology, in my opinion.

The strongest statement you make is where you point out that Gen. 2:4 
uses
the word day figuratively. This is easily understood to be figurative, 
but

; the

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

You do KNOW, do you not David, that that's NOT the source of his 
embarrassment? Rowan Williams is not embarrassed concerning our Lord 
ANYWHERE. He, not unlike many, are embarrassed over believers turning 
non-issues into 'issues'. (i.e. creationISM)



- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 21, 2006 13:12
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism



Yup is right, but how does he get from this thought to the idea that
creationism should not be considered in schools?  I hate it when 
theologians

are embarassed of giving glory to the Creator in school.

David Miller


- Original Message - 
From: Debbie Sawczak

To: 'Lance Muir'
Sent: March 21, 2006 12:15
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism


And for most of the history of Christianity ... there's been an awareness
that a belief that everything depends on the creative act of God is quite
compatible with a degree of uncertainty or latitude about how precisely 
that

unfolds in creative time.

Yup.

D


From: Lance Muir [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 12:09 PM
To: Debbie Sawczak
Subject: Fw: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism



- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 21, 2006 12:06
Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism



- Original Message - 
From: Hughes Jonathan

To: Lance Muir
Sent: March 21, 2006 10:45
Subject: Williams on Creationism


http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/03/21/britain.williams.ap/index.html

Jonathan Hughes
Supervisor of Application Support
Kingsway Financial
905-629-7888 x. 2471



This e-mail and any attachments contain confidential and privileged
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immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. 
Any
dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the 
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recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. Thank you for your 
cooperation

in connection with the above.

Ce courriel ainsi que tous les documents s'y rattachant contiennent de 
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Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
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http://www.InnGlory.org


If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
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ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
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Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

David/Kevin: 'Good point'? As I said recently to David concerning 
theology/science/logic; should you respond only with 'harumph' in the face 
of mounting evidence then, you ought to be speaking only with those who hold 
your views on things. This is a 'cultish' approach and, is inherently 
dangerous.



- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 21, 2006 17:56
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 
2006-Not All Authority is Bad




ROTFLOL.  Good point, Kevin.

David Miller

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 5:05 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
2006-Not All Authority is Bad


Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has
adopted the role of oppressor.

ROTFL
That is Ludicrous on the face of it.
Where did you pick this whopper up?

Perhaps you need a Geography lesson!
http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html
Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California,
SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her
size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil.  How dare Arab
propagandists call Israel expansionist! And how dare anyone believe
them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the
lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of
22 Arab countries? How can the  13 million Jews in the world (almost 5
million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of
the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to  1.4 billion Muslims
worldwide?

I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too
Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of
David before he meets Goliath!
LOL



--- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd
'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly,
Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the
role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER.
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin:
Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad


  There is little point in talking with someone who knows me better
than I know me.   Such arrogant surmising is the product of the kind
of narrowness that I disregard.

  jd

-- Original message -- 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Jd, I never said the Jews will be restored Outside of the church;
they will be become believers.  You say you don't dislike Jews more
than any other unbelievers.  It is obvious to me that you do.  Your
stereotypes and slurs are very revealing.  Izzy



Romans 11
Israel Is Not Cast Away
 1I say then, God has not (A)rejected His people, has He? (B)May
it never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham,
of the tribe of Benjamin.

 2God (D)has not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew (F)Or do
you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how
he pleads with God against Israel?

 3Lord, (G)THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN
YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE.

 4But what is the divine response to him? (H)I HAVE KEPT for
Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL.

 5In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present
time (I)a remnant according to God's gracious choice.

 6But (J)if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of
works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

 7What then? What (K)Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but
those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were (L)hardened;

 8just as it is written,
 (M)GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR,
 EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT,
 DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY.

 9And David says,
 (N)LET THEIR TABLE BECOME A SNARE AND A TRAP,
 AND A STUMBLING BLOCK AND A RETRIBUTION TO THEM.
10(O)LET THEIR EYES BE DARKENED TO SEE NOT,
 AND BEND THEIR BACKS FOREVER.

 11(P)I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they?
(Q)May it never be! But by their transgression (R)salvation has come
to the Gentiles, to (S)make them jealous.

 12Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their
failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their
(T)fulfillment be!

 13But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as
(U)I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,

 14if somehow I might (V)move to jealousy (W)my fellow countrymen
and (X)save some of them.

 15For if their rejection is the (Y)reconciliation of the world,
what will their acceptance be but

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism




If Williams is a 'liberal loonie' then you are a 
'sectarian loonie' , David. He is a brother in Christ who believes differently 
than you on some matters. Now, if that makes him what you say then, that makes 
you what I say.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  David Miller 
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 21, 2006 15:21
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on 
  Creationism
  
  John wrote:
   The world in which we live would reject 
   any mention of God in the evolutionary process, 
   IMO. But creationism in the schools? 
  Could 
   that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical 
   fundamentalist take-over of the culture? 
  ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being facetious on 
purpose.
  
  John wrote:
   But to allow a mere statement that suggests God 
   is somehow in control as the Creator(?) If this 
   could be presented into the secular system of 
   education without it being coopted by the fundies 
   -- go for it. But I doubt that it can. What 
  a shame 
   that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom forces 
   the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful opportunity 
   to introduce the Creator to others. 
  In case you did not notice,the fundamentalists are notcausing 
  the acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden inschools. It 
  is the liberal loonies like thisArchbishop of Canterbury who are doing 
  this.
  
  David Miller

Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

David:No wonder you come both readily and frequently to Judy's defence. Now, 
if only we could clarify, prior to TT's demise, that you both hold to an 
heretical position concerning illumination/interpretation of Scripture.
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 21, 2006 17:56
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

Yes.

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

Do you still consider yourself a Trinitarian leaning towards Modalism?

--- David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Excuse me, John, but nobody has proven that modalism is an error, so
how can
you use the word repent in regards to this?  Do you really think it
is a sin
for someone to think modalism is useful in understanding the Godhead?

David Miller

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

In short, Modalism  !!

Modalism
 The error that there is only one person in the Godhead who
manifests
himself in three forms or manners:  Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
REPENT  --  HURRY !!

jd

-- Original message -- 
From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]

GOD IS ONE; JESUS SAID I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE
More accurately, one person in three manifestations

On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 06:27:25 -0500 Lance Muir
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
ONE GOD IN THREE PERSONS
From: ShieldsFamily

Unity in Diversity.
Fatness in Skinniness.
Ugliness in Beauty.
Dumbness in Intelligence.
Wisdom in Nonsense.
Jibberish in Eloquence.

iz

If your idea were so JD then Jesus would have prayed make them
unity in
diversity just as we are ...
I see that nowhere in scripture.  Jesus said if someone had seen him
they
had seen the Father
because he did only what he first saw the Father do and he said only
what he
first heard from the
Father.  This is the kind of unity he was praying about JD.  Unifying
around
rebellion is what the
end times harlot church is all about.

On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 07:11:21 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

We shall be one as He and the Father are one, someday, Judy.   Right
now,
unity inspite of diversity is all we've got.
Because you and I are not of the same Christ does not mean that unity
in
diversity does not exist.  jd
 From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Agreed!  I to hate all the isms and all the ologies.
In fact I don't see why we can not lay them aside so that we may
recognize
the faith
once delivered to the saints and walk in Truth or reality.  Jesus
was not
referring to any
Unity in diversity in John 17. He prayed they would be One as He
and the
Father are One
Is Unity in diversity how you see the Godhead or Trinity? JD

On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 05:33:59 -0500 Lance Muir
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Sectarianism! Amen! Have you (of course you have) taken note of those
who so
identify others as sectarians while their group (sect) is thus
reflective of
a repristinated gospel. They seem themselves as 'recovering' the
truth.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

It has occurred to me that legalism, although unattractive as it is,
is not
my real complaint.  Henceforth and forever more,  I will be opposed
to
sectarianism.  The legal content of the sectarian is often different
--
but the sectarian is the same kind of cat, regardless of his/her
stripes.
They are the ones who oppose the unity concerns expressed by Christ
in John
17. There can be unity in diversity.  In sectarian circles,  the
only
unity that exists is one borne of the fear of reprisal.  jd

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

One other thought on the creation thread.   I wrote my remarks more
because
of Conor than for any other reason.   My comments can stand on their
own,  I
believe.  I do not believe in a 6000 year old earth nor do I beleive
the
bible teaches such  -  for the reasons stated.  Could the earth be
only 6000
years old.   I suppose so, but only the sectarians beleive such,
IMHO.   Is
God the creator?   Now that is the real question.   I would think we
all
agree on the answer to that question.

End of the matter for me.   And, so, the opportunity to delve into
the
character of the opponent is side tracked.Motivation be damned
--  in a
biblical sense , of course.

jd

From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 John wrote:
  To your first question , no.

 If I get time, I will try and present some of it for you.

 John wrote:
  To your second question, either you
  did not read my post or you have
  decided to insult my presentation?

 I read your post very carefully. I am not trying to insult you at
all.
 Most of your argument revolves around why we should consider using
a
 gt; figurative meaning. This is the approach I hear from most

Re: [TruthTalk] Modalism the RESTORATION

Yes, the Restoration movement we have discussed in the past. It
involves a lot more than David Millard. In fact, somebody posted an
article by Alexander Campbell (one of the founders of the Church of Christ
movement)that criticized Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. I'm
sure DaveH remembers that discussion. It was all a very fascinating
historical discussion. As you know, Joseph Smith adopted Campbell's label
of Church of Christ originally.

David Miller

- Original Message -
From:
Kevin
Deegan
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 7:52
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Modalism
the RESTORATION

What is also interesting is they have roots in the Restoration
movement.
via David Millard (contemporary of Joe who lived Published 13 miles
away.) Elias Smith see links below.

David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
This
is interesting, Kevin. The LDS believes in henotheism (a type of
polytheism) and modalism at the same time? How can this be? DaveH,
please let us know your thoughts about this.David
Miller- Original Message - From: "Kevin Deegan"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent:
Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:18 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Modalism
the RESTORATION[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In short,
Modalism !!Sort of Like the RESTORATIONISTS of the pre "Church of
Christ" -"CHRIST-ian church"?Sounds more like your HERITAGE!The
guys who thaought, the only name for the TRUE church is to have thename
of CHRIST thus the Christian
Church!http://www.mun.ca/rels/restmov/texts/jburnett/eshm/ESHM.HTMhttp://www.restorationquarterly.org/Volume_009/rq00903olbricht.htmhttp://www.acu.edu/sponsored/restoration_quarterly/archives/1960s/vol_9_no_3_contents/olbricht.htmlSome
of these fellas Like David Millard, lived a scant 13 miles fromJoe Smith
and thus the MODALISM in the BoM!"Book of Mormon theology is generally
modalistic. In the Book ofMormon, God and Jesus Christ are not distinct
beings." (New Approachesto the Book of Mormon, 1993, pages 82, 96-99,
103-104, 110)"Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of
the world toredeem my people. Behold I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father
and theSon. In me shall all mankind have light... they shall become my
sonsand my daughters." (Ether
3:14)http://www.xmission.com/~country/reason/gods_1.htm---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In short, Modalism
!! Modalism The error that there is only one person
in the Godhead who manifests himself in three forms or manners:
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. REPENT -- HURRY
!! jd -- Original message
-- From: Judy Taylor
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GOD IS ONE; JESUS SAID "I AND THE
FATHER ARE ONE" More accurately, one person in three
manifestations On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 06:27:25 -0500
"Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>writes: ONE GOD IN THREE
PERSONS From: ShieldsFamily Unity in
Diversity. Fatness in Skinniness. Ugliness in
Beauty. Dumbness in Intelligence. Wisdom in
Nonsense. Jibberish in Eloquence.
iz If your idea were so JD then Jesus would
have prayed "make them "unity in diversity" just as we are
... I see that nowhere in scripture. Jesus said if someone had seen
him they had seen the Father because he did only what he
first saw the Father do and he said only what he first heard from
the Father. This is the kind of unity he was praying about JD.
Unifying around rebellion is what the end times "harlot
church" is all about. On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 07:11:21 +
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: We shall be one as He and the
Father are one, someday, Judy. Right now, unity inspite of diversity
is all we've got. Because you and I are not of the same Christ does
not mean that unity in diversity does not exist. jd From:
Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Agreed! I to hate all the isms
and all the ologies. In fact I don't see why we can not lay them
aside so that we may recognize the faith once delivered to
the saints and "walk in Truth" or reality. Jesus was not referring
to any "Unity in diversity" in John 17. He prayed they would be One
as He and the Father are One Is "Unity in diversity" how you
see the Godhead or "Trinity?" JD On Sun, 19 Mar 2006
05:33:59 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>writes:
Sectarianism! Amen! Have you (of course you have) taken note of
those who so identify others as sectarians while their group (sect)
is thus reflective of a repristinated gospel. They seem themselves
as 'recovering' the truth. From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] It has occurred to me that legalism,
although unattractive as it is, is not my real complaint. Henceforth
and forever more, I will be opposed to sectarianism. The legal
content of the

Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM




Kevin:AMEN KEVIN! Truth is able to stand public 
scrutiny. What you, on occasion, say does not. 

This site was aptly named Truthtalk and, at it's 
best lived up to that.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 21, 2006 21:41
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM
  
  DAVEH: Sometimes I just don't feel 
  compelled to argue with you, Kevin.
  
  Don't want to "argue"?
  TRUTH is always able to withstand Public scrutiny!
  Maybe, you can call me names (like the other 
  LDS quoted below much more available on request)orget a LDS BISHOP 
  High Priest to find a very small SP to attack from the back. Because LDS 
  "truth" is not able to withstand public scrutiny!
  "anti-Mormon" is a "thought-terminating cliché," in other words, 
  Orwellian "NEWSPEAK". The purpose of which is to CUE LDS to 
  get their minds off track to reduce any possibility that they may come into 
  contact with NON faith promoting FACTS. The LABELING of so-called "opponents" 
  with a word, whose only purpose is to create a mental aversion, is the 
  deliberate mechanism of the leadership to cue the membership to subconsciously 
  censor their own thoughts! This tactic is employed by Authoritarian 
  organizations which seek to CONTROL  reduce the flow of information to 
  their followers. 
  The TRUTH is always ABLE to WITHSTAND 
  public scutiny!
  
  Contention is of the Devil? Innoculates the LDS to censor discussion. Who 
  ios getting ANGRY here? Look at the following Mormon APOLOGETIC:
  And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou 
  wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
  http://www.mormonismi.info/jamesdavid/negative.htm
  RE: You Loser What exactly is 
  your problem against the mormon church? You take the information you have 
  in the wrong context. Get a life. 
  RE: your stupid I have been investigating the mormon 
  church for some time now. I know that all the false doctren is a lie. I have 
  felt the spirit,I have a sure faith in the prophet Joseph Smith. 
  
  Contention is of the devil. Therefore we cannot teach 
  Christ's doctrine by contending one with another, nor can we be called by the 
  name of Christ if we act as such. Christ himself taught that if a man smite 
  thee on one cheek turn to him the other also. It saddens my heart to think of 
  all time and effort spent trying to tear each others beliefs apart. If I think 
  I know something to be true I will speak of my knowledge of the truth. I would 
  not try to convert anyone to my beliefs by trying to destroy their beliefs. 
  You do not punch someone in the eye out of love. MAY GOD BLESS THE PEACEABLE 
  FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST. 
  
   But "James," the only things I want to eliminate are you from the 
  newsgroup and the test tube you came in on. 
  
  Get a life and leave the Church of Jesus Christ alone. It makes me 
  sad to think of all the people you may have led away from the truth of the 
  Gospel. 
  P.S. Next time you talk to Satan tell him to go to .. and stay 
  there. 
  
  you need to get your facts straight. but it's a nice try!! who ya 
  working for ? mankind? ya right! 
  Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  Why 
all the name calling from LDS is this 
CONTENTION?http://www.mormonismi.info/jamesdavid/negative.htm--- 
Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: _*After all ANTI's are 
Stupid  Losers and do not really undestand, just  can't 
get the facts straight!*_  DAVEH: Sometimes I just 
don't feel compelled to argue with you,  Kevin. 
 Kevin Deegan wrote:   *CONTENTION is of the 
Devil*  3 Ne 11 And according as I have commanded you thus shall 
ye baptize.   And there shall be no disputations 
  among you, as 
there have   hitherto been; neither shall there be 
disputations among you   concerning the points of my doctrine, 
as there have hitherto been.   For verily, verily I say unto 
you, he that hath the *spirit of   **contention* * is not of   me, but 
is of the **devil*   , 
who is the father of   contention, and he stirreth up the hearts 
of men to contend with   anger, one with another.  
  Perhaps this helps with keeping the members in line too after 
all when   the leaders speak the th inking has been 
done.The Holy Bible on the other hand 
says:  *1 Thessalonians 5:21 clearly commands to /"prove all 
things."/*  The scriptures tell us to *CONTEND for the faith 
ONCE delivered*  /*"Preach the word; be instant in season, out 
of season; reprove,   rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and 
doctrine. For the time will   come when they _will_ not 
endure sound doctrine; but after their own   lusts shall 
they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And  
 they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be 
turned   unto fables.*/Paul 
was so despised by some that he was lashed on 5 occasions, beaten

Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

I'd answer IFF you'd read/watch (i.e. make use of) the data available. We 
both know that you (and David and, Judy and, Iz) would not.

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 21, 2006 17:05
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has
adopted the role of oppressor.

ROTFL
That is Ludicrous on the face of it.
Where did you pick this whopper up?

Perhaps you need a Geography lesson!
http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html
Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California,
SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her
size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil.  How dare Arab
propagandists call Israel expansionist! And how dare anyone believe
them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the
lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of
22 Arab countries? How can the  13 million Jews in the world (almost 5
million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of
the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to  1.4 billion Muslims
worldwide?

I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too
Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of
David before he meets Goliath!
LOL

--- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd
'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly,
Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the
role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER.
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin:
Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

  There is little point in talking with someone who knows me better
than I know me.   Such arrogant surmising is the product of the kind
of narrowness that I disregard.

  jd

-- Original message -- 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Jd, I never said the Jews will be restored Outside of the church;
they will be become believers.  You say you don't dislike Jews more
than any other unbelievers.  It is obvious to me that you do.  Your
stereotypes and slurs are very revealing.  Izzy

Romans 11
Israel Is Not Cast Away
 1I say then, God has not (A)rejected His people, has He? (B)May
it never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham,
of the tribe of Benjamin.

 2God (D)has not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew (F)Or do
you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how
he pleads with God against Israel?

 3Lord, (G)THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN
YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE.

 4But what is the divine response to him? (H)I HAVE KEPT for
Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL.

 5In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present
time (I)a remnant according to God's gracious choice.

 6But (J)if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of
works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

 7What then? What (K)Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but
those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were (L)hardened;

 8just as it is written,
 (M)GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR,
 EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT,
 DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY.

 9And David says,
 (N)LET THEIR TABLE BECOME A SNARE AND A TRAP,
 AND A STUMBLING BLOCK AND A RETRIBUTION TO THEM.
10(O)LET THEIR EYES BE DARKENED TO SEE NOT,
 AND BEND THEIR BACKS FOREVER.

 11(P)I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they?
(Q)May it never be! But by their transgression (R)salvation has come
to the Gentiles, to (S)make them jealous.

 12Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their
failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their
(T)fulfillment be!

 13But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as
(U)I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,

 14if somehow I might (V)move to jealousy (W)my fellow countrymen
and (X)save some of them.

 15For if their rejection is the (Y)reconciliation of the world,
what will their acceptance be but (Z)life from the dead?

 16If the (AA)first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and
if the root is holy, the branches are too.

 17But if some of the (AB)branches were broken off, and (AC)you,
being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker
with them of the rich root of the olive tree,

 18do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are
arrogant, remember that (AD)it is not you who supports the root, but
the

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism




There is room for us to have different perspectives about how God created, 
but none of us should disagree with the notion that God is the Creator. To 
suggest that schools not teach even the possibility that God is the Creator is 
so ludicrous that I can't believe we are even talking about this or that you 
would defend this Bishop. Deception is the only word for it.

David Miller

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:27 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on 
  Creationism
  
  Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do. I know 
  this -- there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed 
  upon by the whole church. 
  
  jd
  
  
  
  -- 
Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



John wrote:
 The world in which we live would reject 
 any mention of God in the evolutionary process, 
 IMO. But creationism in the schools? 
Could 
 that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical 
 fundamentalist take-over of the culture? 
ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being facetious on 
purpose.

John wrote:
 But to allow a mere statement that suggests God 
 is somehow in control as the Creator(?) If this 
 could be presented into the secular system of 
 education without it being coopted by the fundies 
 -- go for it. But I doubt that it can. 
What a shame 
 that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom forces 
 the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful opportunity 
 to introduce the Creator to others. 
In case you did not notice,the fundamentalists are 
notcausing the acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden 
inschools. It is the liberal loonies like thisArchbishop 
of Canterbury who are doing this.

David Miller

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

Iz:Fundamental Christianity is that which John believes. FundamentalISM 
ought not be believed by anyone.

- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 21, 2006 21:48
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

If fundamental Christianity is a problem for you, of what spirit are you? 
iz

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:15 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

DM says In case you did not notice, the fundamentalists are not causing
the acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden in schools.  It is
the liberal loonies like this Archbishop of Canterbury who are doing
this.

Some around here are concerned that there are FUNDIES lurking around
every keyboard on TT.
Perhaps these previous comments are a incantation meant to flush them
out into the open.
One can never be to prepared to protect oneself from fundaMENTALism!

--- David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

John wrote:
 The world in which we live would reject
 any mention of God in the evolutionary process,
 IMO.   But  creationism in the schools?   Could
 that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical
 fundamentalist take-over of the culture?

ROTFLOL.  I sure hope you were being facetious on purpose.

John wrote:
 But to allow a mere  statement that suggests God
 is somehow in control as the Creator(?)   If this
 could be presented into the secular system of
 education without it being coopted by the fundies
 --  go for it.   But I doubt that it can.  What a shame
 that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom forces
 the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful opportunity
 to introduce the Creator to others.

In case you did not notice, the fundamentalists are not causing the
acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden in schools.  It is the
liberal loonies like this Archbishop of Canterbury who are doing
this.

David Miller

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Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Even at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on some 
occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!

- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

But Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) iz

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has
adopted the role of oppressor.

ROTFL
That is Ludicrous on the face of it.
Where did you pick this whopper up?

Perhaps you need a Geography lesson!
http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html
Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California,
SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her
size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil.  How dare Arab
propagandists call Israel expansionist! And how dare anyone believe
them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the
lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of
22 Arab countries? How can the  13 million Jews in the world (almost 5
million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of
the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to  1.4 billion Muslims
worldwide?

I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too
Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of
David before he meets Goliath!
LOL

--- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd
'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly,
Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the
role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER.
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin:
Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

  There is little point in talking with someone who knows me better
than I know me.   Such arrogant surmising is the product of the kind
of narrowness that I disregard.

  jd

-- Original message -- 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Jd, I never said the Jews will be restored Outside of the church;
they will be become believers.  You say you don't dislike Jews more
than any other unbelievers.  It is obvious to me that you do.  Your
stereotypes and slurs are very revealing.  Izzy

Romans 11
Israel Is Not Cast Away
 1I say then, God has not (A)rejected His people, has He? (B)May
it never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham,
of the tribe of Benjamin.

 2God (D)has not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew (F)Or do
you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how
he pleads with God against Israel?

 3Lord, (G)THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN
YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE.

 4But what is the divine response to him? (H)I HAVE KEPT for
Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL.

 5In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present
time (I)a remnant according to God's gracious choice.

 6But (J)if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of
works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

 7What then? What (K)Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but
those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were (L)hardened;

 8just as it is written,
 (M)GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR,
 EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT,
 DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY.

 9And David says,
 (N)LET THEIR TABLE BECOME A SNARE AND A TRAP,
 AND A STUMBLING BLOCK AND A RETRIBUTION TO THEM.
10(O)LET THEIR EYES BE DARKENED TO SEE NOT,
 AND BEND THEIR BACKS FOREVER.

 11(P)I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they?
(Q)May it never be! But by their transgression (R)salvation has come
to the Gentiles, to (S)make them jealous.

 12Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their
failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their
(T)fulfillment be!

 13But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as
(U)I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,

 14if somehow I might (V)move to jealousy (W)my fellow countrymen
and (X)save some of them.

 15For if their rejection is the (Y)reconciliation of the world,
what will their acceptance be but (Z)life from the dead?

 16If the (AA)first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and
if the root is holy, the

[TruthTalk] Fw: TT's future?

- Original Message - 
From: Taylor 
To: Lance Muir 
Sent: March 21, 2006 14:34
Subject: Re: TT's future?

Hi Lance, 

You may forward this onto the group at TT. I want 
to wish the best toeveryone of you and am confident that we will meet 
again on the other side. TruthTalk was a big part of my life, as I know it was 
for many of you. I willforever carry good memories of our time 
together.Thank you, David, for providing us with this avenue to publicly 
discussour Lord Jesus Christ. Please know that you are invited to drop me 
a line anytime.

God's blessings to you all,
Bill

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Lance 
  Muir 
  To: Wm. Taylor 
  Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 8:41 
AM
  Subject: Fw: TT's future?

  - Original Message - 
  From: David Miller 

  To: Lance Muir 
  Sent: March 20, 2006 10:32
  Subject: Re: TT's future?

  The decision has been made as explained before. Barring any 
  unforeseen alternatives or solutions coming from somebody else, it will come 
  down. As per the request of another, I will announce the shutdown and 
  give the list a few days for people to say their good byes. Feel free to 
  invite others to say whatever they would like to say. I would be 
  interested in hearing from all of them. I have a special care for many 
  who have left, especially Bill Taylor, Debbie, Caroline, and Jonathan. 

  David Miller.

- Original Message - 
From: 
Lance 
Muir 
To: David Miller 
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 7:04 
AM
Subject: TT's future?

Have you made a decision on this? If you're 
going to shut it downthen, I'd like to invite a couple of people back 
for the swan song of TT.

Lance

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism




One's time would be better spent reading some 
noteworthy novelists than noteworthy creationists. Lift up Jesus and, 
creationISM, will fall away as it should.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  David Miller 
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 22, 2006 08:00
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on 
  Creationism
  
  There is room for us to have different perspectives about how God 
  created, but none of us should disagree with the notion that God is the 
  Creator. To suggest that schools not teach even the possibility that God 
  is the Creator is so ludicrous that I can't believe we are even talking about 
  this or that you would defend this Bishop. Deception is the only word 
  for it.
  
  David Miller
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:27 
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams 
on Creationism

Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do. I know 
this -- there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed 
upon by the whole church. 

jd



-- 
  Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  

  John wrote:
   The world in which we live would reject 
   any mention of God in the evolutionary process, 
   IMO. But creationism in the 
  schools? Could 
   that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical 
   fundamentalist take-over of the culture? 
  ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being facetious on 
  purpose.
  
  John wrote:
   But to allow a mere statement that suggests God 
   is somehow in control as the Creator(?) If this 
  
   could be presented into the secular system of 
   education without it being coopted by the fundies 
   -- go for it. But I doubt that it can. 
  What a shame 
   that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom forces 
   the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful opportunity 
   to introduce the Creator to others. 
  In case you did not notice,the fundamentalists are 
  notcausing the acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden 
  inschools. It is the liberal loonies like thisArchbishop 
  of Canterbury who are doing this.
  
  David Miller

Re: [TruthTalk] Physics, Astronomy and Genesis chapters 1-11

Let me try and break it down for you.

Fire normally consumes the fuel from which it originates. This is why
we do not have experience with the idea of an unquenchable fire. Even the
sun will burn out one day, because the fuel which is burning there will be used
up.

The bush that Moses saw was different. The bush was not
consumed. The fire existed without consuming the fuel. Given this
observation, that the fuel was not consumed, it serves as an observation of the
idea that a fire might exist that does not consume fuel and would therefore
never be extinguished.

This does not PROVE the idea of an unquenchable fire, because there are
other possible explanations for what he observed, but it is evidence for it
because it was a fire that was different from our normal experiences with fire,
an observation that suggests a fire that burns without showing any indication of
ending and without consuming that which itengulfs.

Does this help you understand the logic any better?

David Miller

- Original Message -
From:
Dave Hansen

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 2:03
AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Physics,
Astronomy and Genesis chapters 1-11
but it does logically support the idea
that he is capable (of creating an unquenchable fire), even though the bush is not burning right now.DAVEH:
I'd (respectfully) say your logic is flawed on this one, DavidM.
David Miller wrote:
The burning bush is not a weak observation concerning the question of
whether or not God is capable of creating an unquenchable fire. It would
not be proof that he has done it, but it does logically support the idea
that he is capable, even though the bush is not burning right now.

By the way, when I climbed Mount Sinai, they have a rock there with black
magnesium deposits that make it look like a bush was burned into the rocks.
The guide there tells everyone that it is the burning bush of Moses. :-)

David Miller

DAVEH: I would think anybody who understands that the argument of using a
burning bush as evidence to prove that God is capable of creating an
unquenchable fire is a bit weak if that unquenchable fire (burning bush) has
been quenched.

ShieldsFamily wrote:
Yours?

DAVEH: Not at all, Izzy. It is simply an observation of illogic.

ShieldsFamily wrote:
Oh, I guess God forgot how to do that particular trick, eh? iz

Doesn't that teach us something about God's
abilities of creating an unquenchable fire?
DAVEH: Only if the bush is still burning.

David Miller wrote:
DaveH, I agree with Judy here. The argument of a "literal impossibility" is
a little weak when we are talking about God. Moses did see a bush that was
burning but not consumed. Doesn't that teach us something about God's
abilities of creating an unquenchable fire?

David Miller

Why try to confuse Conor right off the bat Lance? Genesis is not a "science
book" per se.
Although the writer of Genesis is also the God who created all that is
called "science"
Are you asking Conor to interpret Genesis in the light of Astronomy and
Physics?

Just this morning I read this interaction between DaveH and KevinD (I
think) ...

KD: That is explained by the fire and brimstone imagery that is in reality
endless torment.
a fire which cannot be consumed, even an unquenchable fire

DAVEH: More imagery that is physically an impossibility. Fire can be
extinguished, whereas
mental torment can go on forever.

So tell me - What is a physical impossibility for God? The same God who
delivered what he had
promised to Abraham and Sarah when they were 90 and 100yrs old respectively.
A God who was
able to roll back the Red Sea until his people crossed and afterward kept
them in the desert for 40yrs
feeding them with manna from heaven and keeping their clothes from wearing
out and their feet from
swelling. The same God who stopped the sun for 24 hours and caused an axe
head to float on water
The God who energized His prophet causing him to run for 25 miles in front
of Jezebels' chariot and
had the ravens feed him while he rested and regrouped in a cave.

Tell me - what would be too difficult for a God like this and how can the
feeble efforts of man explain
Him?

On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:57:56 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Conor: Might we hear from you on this? Frame this in whatever fashion suits
you.

Lance

--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

Rowan Williams should be embarassed for being a pretenderLance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You do KNOW, do you not David, that that's NOT the source of his embarrassment? Rowan Williams is not embarrassed concerning our Lord ANYWHERE. He, not unlike many, are embarrassed over believers turning non-issues into 'issues'. (i.e. creationISM)- Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: March 21, 2006 13:12Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Yup is right, but how does he get from this thought to the idea that creationism should not be considered in schools? I hate it when theologians are embarassed of giving glory to the Creator in school. David Miller
- Original Message - From: Debbie Sawczak To: 'Lance Muir' Sent: March 21, 2006 12:15 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism "And for most of the history of Christianity ... there's been an awareness that a belief that everything depends on the creative act of God is quite compatible with a degree of uncertainty or latitude about how precisely that unfolds in creative time." Yup. D From: Lance Muir [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 12:09 PM To: Debbie Sawczak Subject: Fw: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 21, 2006 12:06 Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism -
Original Message - From: Hughes Jonathan To: Lance Muir Sent: March 21, 2006 10:45 Subject: Williams on Creationism http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/03/21/britain.williams.ap/index.html Jonathan Hughes Supervisor of Application Support Kingsway Financial 905-629-7888 x. 2471 This e-mail and any attachments contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. Thank you for your cooperation in connection with the above. Ce courriel ainsi que tous les documents s'y rattachant contiennent de
l'information confidentielle et privilégiée. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire visé, s.v.p. en informer immédiatement son expéditeur par retour de courriel, effacer le message et détruire toute copie (électronique ou autre). Toute diffusion ou utilisation de cette information par une personne autre que le destinataire visé est interdite et peut être illégale. Merci de votre coopération relativement au message susmentionné. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.6/287 - Release Date: 3/21/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.6/287 - Release Date: 3/21/2006 -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

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Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

David Miller wrote:
 I hate it when theologians are embarrassed
 of giving glory to the Creator in school.

Lance wrote:
 You do KNOW, do you not David, that
 that's NOT the source of his embarrassment?
 Rowan Williams is not embarrassed concerning
 our Lord ANYWHERE. He, not unlike many,
 are embarrassed over believers turning
 non-issues into 'issues'. (i.e. creationISM)

There is more to this issue that this.  Is he embarrassed of certain brands 
of creationism?  Of course.  I am too.  I'm embarrassed of Henry Morris and 
that whole ICR group over there.  At the same time, they serve a purpose in 
what they do, and we should not revolt to them so much that we accept the 
atheistic and scientific agenda of removing all references to the Creator 
from our public schools.

You say it is a NON-ISSUE?  I consider such a statement ignorant in the 
extreme.  Deceptive to the core.  There is one thing that the ICR group has 
illustrated, and that is that this is an issue.

I talked with a student a few months ago, John Boyles, just before he was 
elected to be President of Student Government at the University of Florida. 
I talked with him about the persecution my daughter is undergoing at UF just 
because she believes the Bible that homosexual behavior is sinful.  He 
confided to me that he applied for a Rhodes scholarship to study theology at 
Oxford.  He was turned down because he argued in his oral examination / 
interview that the idea of Intelligent Design should be considered in the 
classroom.  If this was a non-issue, these professors of theology would have 
tolerated his creationist convictions.  I wish I could convey to you the 
grief this man carried over his own religious persecution by those who would 
not have him study theology because he believed intelligent design theories 
should be considered in school.

I truly believe that these modern theologians assume that scientists are 
well studied in origins and are deeply convicted about the truth of 
evolutionary processes and the absurdity of the teaching of Genesis.  When 
the truth comes out, they will be the ones who will be greatly embarrassed 
in the day of our Lord.  The philosopher Thomas Khun was right in how he 
depicted the way science really operates.  These theologians who object to 
Creationist models of origins should pay attention to him just a little bit 
more.

David Miller

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

Lance, you have never been able to distinguish between Orthodoxy and the 
teaching of Scripture.  Judy has been trying so hard to get you to see it. 
Martin Luther, if he was here, would be trying so hard to get you to see it. 
You just don't get it.  Orthodoxy and the teaching of Scripture is not the 
same thing.  We repent if we walk contrary to Scripture.  We do not 
necessarily repent if we depart from Orthodoxy, nor do we call upon others 
to repent if they depart from Orthodoxy.  The standard of Orthodoxy and the 
standard of the Bible are two different things.  Why can't you see that?

David Miller


- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:34 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?


David:'PROVEN'? 'ERROR' In the light of 'orthodox' thought concerning the
Triune nature of God David, it is an heresy. It'd appear to be an heresy
that is a part of YOUR BELIEVE CONCERNING THE TRIUNE NATURE OF GOD but, that
does not change what it is in this context.

- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 21, 2006 13:14
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?


 Excuse me, John, but nobody has proven that modalism is an error, so how
 can
 you use the word repent in regards to this?  Do you really think it is a
 sin
 for someone to think modalism is useful in understanding the Godhead?

 David Miller

 - Original Message - 
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:56 AM
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

 In short, Modalism  !!

 Modalism
 The error that there is only one person in the Godhead who manifests
 himself in three forms or manners:  Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
 REPENT  --  HURRY !!

 jd

 -- Original message -- 
 From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 GOD IS ONE; JESUS SAID I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE
 More accurately, one person in three manifestations


 On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 06:27:25 -0500 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 writes:
 ONE GOD IN THREE PERSONS
 From: ShieldsFamily

 Unity in Diversity.
 Fatness in Skinniness.
 Ugliness in Beauty.
 Dumbness in Intelligence.
 Wisdom in Nonsense.
 Jibberish in Eloquence.

 iz



 If your idea were so JD then Jesus would have prayed make them unity in
 diversity just as we are ...
 I see that nowhere in scripture.  Jesus said if someone had seen him they
 had seen the Father
 because he did only what he first saw the Father do and he said only what
 he
 first heard from the
 Father.  This is the kind of unity he was praying about JD.  Unifying
 around
 rebellion is what the
 end times harlot church is all about.

 On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 07:11:21 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 We shall be one as He and the Father are one, someday, Judy.   Right now,
 unity inspite of diversity is all we've got.
 Because you and I are not of the same Christ does not mean that unity in
 diversity does not exist.  jd
 From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Agreed!  I to hate all the isms and all the ologies.
 In fact I don't see why we can not lay them aside so that we may recognize
 the faith
 once delivered to the saints and walk in Truth or reality.  Jesus was
 not
 referring to any
 Unity in diversity in John 17. He prayed they would be One as He and the
 Father are One
 Is Unity in diversity how you see the Godhead or Trinity? JD

 On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 05:33:59 -0500 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 writes:
 Sectarianism! Amen! Have you (of course you have) taken note of those who
 so
 identify others as sectarians while their group (sect) is thus reflective
 of
 a repristinated gospel. They seem themselves as 'recovering' the truth.
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 It has occurred to me that legalism, although unattractive as it is, is
 not
 my real complaint.  Henceforth and forever more,  I will be opposed to
 sectarianism.  The legal content of the sectarian is often different  --
 but the sectarian is the same kind of cat, regardless of his/her stripes.
 They are the ones who oppose the unity concerns expressed by Christ in
 John
 17. There can be unity in diversity.  In sectarian circles,  the only
 unity that exists is one borne of the fear of reprisal.  jd

 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 One other thought on the creation thread.   I wrote my remarks more
 because
 of Conor than for any other reason.   My comments can stand on their own,
 I
 believe.  I do not believe in a 6000 year old earth nor do I beleive the
 bible teaches such  -  for the reasons stated.  Could the earth be only
 6000
 years old.   I suppose so, but only the sectarians beleive such,  IMHO.
 Is
 God the creator?   Now that is the real question.   I would think we all
 agree on the answer to that question.

 End of the matter for me.   And, so, the

Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

It seems it is you who behave CULTish and tow the line you have been handed and that in spite of the facts!You are a TRUE "Believer" David did Oppress Goliath! LOL Of course you again avoid the facts since they are troublesome and stubborn things. In what way is a country surrounded by avowed enemies, outnumbered and almost land locked by those enemies a Oppressor. Did the jews kill Jesus? Are you an Anti Semite?http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/2873395/detail.html Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David/Kevin: 'Good point'? As I said recently to David concerning theology/science/logic; should you respond only with 'harumph' in the face of mounting evidence then, you ought to be speaking only with those who hold your views on things. This is a 'cultish' approach and, is inherently dangerous.- Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: March 21, 2006 17:56Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad ROTFLOL. Good point, Kevin. David Miller - Original
Message - From: "Kevin Deegan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor. ROTFL That is Ludicrous on the face of it. Where did you pick this whopper up? Perhaps you need a Geography lesson! http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California, SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil. How dare Arab propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare anyone believe them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent
of the lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of 22 Arab countries? How can the 13 million Jews in the world (almost 5 million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to 1.4 billion Muslims worldwide? I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of David before he meets Goliath! LOL --- Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd 'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly, Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad There is little point in talking with someone who knows me better than I know me. Such arrogant surmising is the product of the kind of narrowness that I disregard. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Jd, I never said the Jews will be restored Outside of the church; they will be become believers. You say you don't dislike Jews more than any other unbelievers. It is obvious to me that you do. Your stereotypes and slurs are very revealing. Izzy Romans 11 Israel Is Not Cast Away 1I
say then, God has not (A)rejected His people, has He? (B)May it never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God (D)has not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew (F)Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel? 3"Lord, (G)THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE." 4But what is the divine response to him? "(H)I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL." 5In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time (I)a remnant according to God's gracious choice. 6But (J)if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is
no longer grace. 7What then? What (K)Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were (L)hardened; 8just as it is written, "(M)GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR, EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT, DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY." 9And David says, "(N)LET THEIR TABLE BECOME A SNARE AND A TRAP, AND A STUMBLING BLOCK AND A RETRIBUTION TO THEM. 10"(O)LET THEIR EYES BE DARKENED TO SEE NOT, AND BEND THEIR BACKS FOREVER." 11(P)I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? (Q)May it never be! But by their transgression (R)salvation has come to the Gentiles, to (S)make them jealous. 12Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much
more will

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism


David:

I'll take a pass on the ad-homs in your post as they simply illustrate what 
I've said concerning you all along. You're an insular, rationalism-based, 
anthropolically centered, angry, fundamentalist-based, sectarian. Ooops! I 
didn't 'take a pass' did I?


I've but one name to give to you and this so-called grief stricken student. 
Alister McGrath. Both of you do your homework so that you might see just how 
wrong you are. (Bonus name: Thomas Weinandy).

Go to it guys!


- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006 08:39
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism



David Miller wrote:

I hate it when theologians are embarrassed
of giving glory to the Creator in school.


Lance wrote:

You do KNOW, do you not David, that
that's NOT the source of his embarrassment?
Rowan Williams is not embarrassed concerning
our Lord ANYWHERE. He, not unlike many,
are embarrassed over believers turning
non-issues into 'issues'. (i.e. creationISM)


There is more to this issue that this.  Is he embarrassed of certain 
brands
of creationism?  Of course.  I am too.  I'm embarrassed of Henry Morris 
and
that whole ICR group over there.  At the same time, they serve a purpose 
in

what they do, and we should not revolt to them so much that we accept the
atheistic and scientific agenda of removing all references to the Creator
from our public schools.

You say it is a NON-ISSUE?  I consider such a statement ignorant in the
extreme.  Deceptive to the core.  There is one thing that the ICR group 
has

illustrated, and that is that this is an issue.

I talked with a student a few months ago, John Boyles, just before he was
elected to be President of Student Government at the University of 
Florida.
I talked with him about the persecution my daughter is undergoing at UF 
just

because she believes the Bible that homosexual behavior is sinful.  He
confided to me that he applied for a Rhodes scholarship to study theology 
at

Oxford.  He was turned down because he argued in his oral examination /
interview that the idea of Intelligent Design should be considered in the
classroom.  If this was a non-issue, these professors of theology would 
have

tolerated his creationist convictions.  I wish I could convey to you the
grief this man carried over his own religious persecution by those who 
would
not have him study theology because he believed intelligent design 
theories

should be considered in school.

I truly believe that these modern theologians assume that scientists are
well studied in origins and are deeply convicted about the truth of
evolutionary processes and the absurdity of the teaching of Genesis.  When
the truth comes out, they will be the ones who will be greatly embarrassed
in the day of our Lord.  The philosopher Thomas Khun was right in how he
depicted the way science really operates.  These theologians who object to
Creationist models of origins should pay attention to him just a little 
bit

more.

David Miller

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org


If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.





--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?


David:My interpretation of what you just said:

'Lance:Judy and I see this matter as it should be seen. We've tried so hard 
to get you to come around to see things our (God's) way. You do not see them 
our (God's) way so, you do not see at all!


Of course, David, I'm aware of the distinction you two make! I'm 'thick' 
but, not that 'thick.SOMETIMES and only SOMETIMES the two of you apprehend 
THE TEACHING OF SCRIPTURE. SOMETIMES and only SOMETIMES that which is spoken 
of as being 'orthodox' and the teaching of Scripture overlap.


The two of you, David. often MISAPPREHEND the actual teaching of Scripture!! 
This is sometimes why the two of you are wrong vis a vis both Scripture's 
teaching and orthodoxy. The two of you, on some occasions, are presumptuous 
to the nth degree!!



- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006 08:43
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?



Lance, you have never been able to distinguish between Orthodoxy and the
teaching of Scripture.  Judy has been trying so hard to get you to see it.
Martin Luther, if he was here, would be trying so hard to get you to see 
it.

You just don't get it.  Orthodoxy and the teaching of Scripture is not the
same thing.  We repent if we walk contrary to Scripture.  We do not
necessarily repent if we depart from Orthodoxy, nor do we call upon others
to repent if they depart from Orthodoxy.  The standard of Orthodoxy and 
the

standard of the Bible are two different things.  Why can't you see that?

David Miller


- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:34 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?


David:'PROVEN'? 'ERROR' In the light of 'orthodox' thought concerning the
Triune nature of God David, it is an heresy. It'd appear to be an heresy
that is a part of YOUR BELIEVE CONCERNING THE TRIUNE NATURE OF GOD but, 
that

does not change what it is in this context.

- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 21, 2006 13:14
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?



Excuse me, John, but nobody has proven that modalism is an error, so how
can
you use the word repent in regards to this?  Do you really think it is a
sin
for someone to think modalism is useful in understanding the Godhead?

David Miller

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

In short, Modalism  !!

Modalism
The error that there is only one person in the Godhead who manifests
himself in three forms or manners:  Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
REPENT  --  HURRY !!

jd

-- Original message -- 
From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]


GOD IS ONE; JESUS SAID I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE
More accurately, one person in three manifestations


On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 06:27:25 -0500 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
ONE GOD IN THREE PERSONS
From: ShieldsFamily

Unity in Diversity.
Fatness in Skinniness.
Ugliness in Beauty.
Dumbness in Intelligence.
Wisdom in Nonsense.
Jibberish in Eloquence.

iz



If your idea were so JD then Jesus would have prayed make them unity in
diversity just as we are ...
I see that nowhere in scripture.  Jesus said if someone had seen him they
had seen the Father
because he did only what he first saw the Father do and he said only what
he
first heard from the
Father.  This is the kind of unity he was praying about JD.  Unifying
around
rebellion is what the
end times harlot church is all about.

On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 07:11:21 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

We shall be one as He and the Father are one, someday, Judy.   Right now,
unity inspite of diversity is all we've got.
Because you and I are not of the same Christ does not mean that unity in
diversity does not exist.  jd
From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Agreed!  I to hate all the isms and all the ologies.
In fact I don't see why we can not lay them aside so that we may 
recognize

the faith
once delivered to the saints and walk in Truth or reality.  Jesus was
not
referring to any
Unity in diversity in John 17. He prayed they would be One as He and 
the

Father are One
Is Unity in diversity how you see the Godhead or Trinity? JD

On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 05:33:59 -0500 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Sectarianism! Amen! Have you (of course you have) taken note of those who
so
identify others as sectarians while their group (sect) is thus reflective
of
a repristinated gospel. They seem themselves as 'recovering' the truth.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

It has occurred to me that legalism, although unattractive as it is, is
not
my real complaint.  Henceforth and forever more,  I will be opposed

Re: [TruthTalk] Physics, Astronomy and Genesis chapters 1-11




David:Do you truly believe (of course you do) that 
your logic, the logic of Scripture and God's logic are all the 
same?

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  David Miller 
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 22, 2006 08:20
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Physics, 
  Astronomy and Genesis chapters 1-11
  
  Let me try and break it down for you.
  
  Fire normally consumes the fuel from which it originates. This is 
  why we do not have experience with the idea of an unquenchable fire. 
  Even the sun will burn out one day, because the fuel which is burning there 
  will be used up. 
  
  The bush that Moses saw was different. The bush was not 
  consumed. The fire existed without consuming the fuel. Given this 
  observation, that the fuel was not consumed, it serves as an observation of 
  the idea that a fire might exist that does not consume fuel and would 
  therefore never be extinguished.
  
  This does not PROVE the idea of an unquenchable fire, because there are 
  other possible explanations for what he observed, but it is evidence for it 
  because it was a fire that was different from our normal experiences with 
  fire, an observation that suggests a fire that burns without showing any 
  indication of ending and without consuming that which itengulfs.
  
  Does this help you understand the logic any better?
  
  David Miller
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Dave Hansen 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 2:03 
AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Physics, 
Astronomy and Genesis chapters 1-11
but it does logically support the idea 
that he is capable (of creating an unquenchable fire), even though the bush is not burning right now.DAVEH: 
I'd (respectfully) say your logic is flawed on this one, DavidM. 
David Miller wrote: 
The burning bush is not a weak observation concerning the question of 
whether or not God is capable of creating an unquenchable fire.  It would 
not be proof that he has done it, but it does logically support the idea 
that he is capable, even though the bush is not burning right now.

By the way, when I climbed Mount Sinai, they have a rock there with black 
magnesium deposits that make it look like a bush was burned into the rocks. 
The guide there tells everyone that it is the burning bush of Moses.  :-)

David Miller


DAVEH:  I would think anybody who understands that the argument of using a 
burning bush as evidence to prove that God is capable of creating an 
unquenchable fire is a bit weak if that unquenchable fire (burning bush) has 
been quenched.

ShieldsFamily wrote:
Yours?


DAVEH:  Not at all, Izzy.  It is simply an observation of illogic.

ShieldsFamily wrote:
Oh, I guess God forgot how to do that particular trick, eh? iz

Doesn't that teach us something about God's
abilities of creating an unquenchable fire?
DAVEH:   Only if the bush is still burning.

David Miller wrote:
DaveH, I agree with Judy here.  The argument of a "literal impossibility" is
a little weak when we are talking about God.  Moses did see a bush that was
burning but not consumed.  Doesn't that teach us something about God's
abilities of creating an unquenchable fire?

David Miller




Why try to confuse Conor right off the bat Lance?  Genesis is not a "science
book" per se.
Although the writer of Genesis is also the God who created all that is
called "science"
Are you asking Conor to interpret Genesis in the light of Astronomy and
Physics?

Just this morning I read this interaction between DaveH and KevinD   (I
think) ...

KD: That is explained by the fire and brimstone imagery that is in reality
endless torment.
a fire which cannot be consumed, even an unquenchable fire

DAVEH:   More imagery that is physically an impossibility.  Fire can be
extinguished, whereas
mental torment can go on forever.

So tell me - What is a physical impossibility for God? The same God who
delivered what he had
promised to Abraham and Sarah when they were 90 and 100yrs old respectively.
A God who was
able to roll back the Red Sea until his people crossed and afterward kept
them in the desert for 40yrs
feeding them with manna from heaven and keeping their clothes from wearing
out and their feet from
swelling.  The same God who stopped the sun for 24 hours and caused an axe
head to float on water
The God who energized His prophet causing him to run for 25 miles in front
of Jezebels' chariot and
had the ravens feed him while he rested and regrouped in a cave.

Tell me - what would be too difficult for a God like this and how can the
feeble efforts of man explain
Him?


On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:57:56 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Conor: Might we hear from you on this? Frame this in whatever fashion suits
you.

Lance



  -- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

Alister McGrath?  He was received at Oxford as an atheist, and later he 
converted to Christianity.  I guess your point is that John should become an 
atheist first and then he would get in?

You still don't get my point.  A Christian these days, according to many of 
these theologians, must adopt the dogma that the mention of a Creator or 
models that involve a Creator should not be taught in school.  All their 
rhetoric about the compatibility of faith and science doesn't mean much at 
all if they affirm this idea that the Creator should be ignored in the study 
of science.

David Miller

- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:47 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism


David:

I'll take a pass on the ad-homs in your post as they simply illustrate what
I've said concerning you all along. You're an insular, rationalism-based,
anthropolically centered, angry, fundamentalist-based, sectarian. Ooops! I
didn't 'take a pass' did I?

I've but one name to give to you and this so-called grief stricken student.
Alister McGrath. Both of you do your homework so that you might see just how
wrong you are. (Bonus name: Thomas Weinandy).
Go to it guys!


- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006 08:39
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism


 David Miller wrote:
 I hate it when theologians are embarrassed
 of giving glory to the Creator in school.

 Lance wrote:
 You do KNOW, do you not David, that
 that's NOT the source of his embarrassment?
 Rowan Williams is not embarrassed concerning
 our Lord ANYWHERE. He, not unlike many,
 are embarrassed over believers turning
 non-issues into 'issues'. (i.e. creationISM)

 There is more to this issue that this.  Is he embarrassed of certain
 brands
 of creationism?  Of course.  I am too.  I'm embarrassed of Henry Morris
 and
 that whole ICR group over there.  At the same time, they serve a purpose
 in
 what they do, and we should not revolt to them so much that we accept the
 atheistic and scientific agenda of removing all references to the Creator
 from our public schools.

 You say it is a NON-ISSUE?  I consider such a statement ignorant in the
 extreme.  Deceptive to the core.  There is one thing that the ICR group
 has
 illustrated, and that is that this is an issue.

 I talked with a student a few months ago, John Boyles, just before he was
 elected to be President of Student Government at the University of
 Florida.
 I talked with him about the persecution my daughter is undergoing at UF
 just
 because she believes the Bible that homosexual behavior is sinful.  He
 confided to me that he applied for a Rhodes scholarship to study theology
 at
 Oxford.  He was turned down because he argued in his oral examination /
 interview that the idea of Intelligent Design should be considered in the
 classroom.  If this was a non-issue, these professors of theology would
 have
 tolerated his creationist convictions.  I wish I could convey to you the
 grief this man carried over his own religious persecution by those who
 would
 not have him study theology because he believed intelligent design
 theories
 should be considered in school.

 I truly believe that these modern theologians assume that scientists are
 well studied in origins and are deeply convicted about the truth of
 evolutionary processes and the absurdity of the teaching of Genesis.  When
 the truth comes out, they will be the ones who will be greatly embarrassed
 in the day of our Lord.  The philosopher Thomas Khun was right in how he
 depicted the way science really operates.  These theologians who object to
 Creationist models of origins should pay attention to him just a little
 bit
 more.

 David Miller

 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
 know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
 http://www.InnGlory.org

 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
 friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.



--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to

Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

I would say what Martin Luther would say... show it to me by Scripture, not 
by quoting a church father or some dignified scholar in the church.  You 
seem to have no firm standard to judge what is of God and what is not, nor 
do you seem to have any method whatsoever to discern the truth of Scripture. 
Your biggest mantra is, nobody knows the truth!  From your perspective, we 
all speculate and sometimes we accidentally overlap with truth and sometimes 
we don't.

David Miller

- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?


David:My interpretation of what you just said:

'Lance:Judy and I see this matter as it should be seen. We've tried so hard
to get you to come around to see things our (God's) way. You do not see them
our (God's) way so, you do not see at all!

Of course, David, I'm aware of the distinction you two make! I'm 'thick'
but, not that 'thick.SOMETIMES and only SOMETIMES the two of you apprehend
THE TEACHING OF SCRIPTURE. SOMETIMES and only SOMETIMES that which is spoken
of as being 'orthodox' and the teaching of Scripture overlap.

The two of you, David. often MISAPPREHEND the actual teaching of Scripture!!
This is sometimes why the two of you are wrong vis a vis both Scripture's
teaching and orthodoxy. The two of you, on some occasions, are presumptuous
to the nth degree!!


- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006 08:43
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?


 Lance, you have never been able to distinguish between Orthodoxy and the
 teaching of Scripture.  Judy has been trying so hard to get you to see it.
 Martin Luther, if he was here, would be trying so hard to get you to see
 it.
 You just don't get it.  Orthodoxy and the teaching of Scripture is not the
 same thing.  We repent if we walk contrary to Scripture.  We do not
 necessarily repent if we depart from Orthodoxy, nor do we call upon others
 to repent if they depart from Orthodoxy.  The standard of Orthodoxy and
 the
 standard of the Bible are two different things.  Why can't you see that?

 David Miller


 - Original Message - 
 From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:34 AM
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?


 David:'PROVEN'? 'ERROR' In the light of 'orthodox' thought concerning the
 Triune nature of God David, it is an heresy. It'd appear to be an heresy
 that is a part of YOUR BELIEVE CONCERNING THE TRIUNE NATURE OF GOD but,
 that
 does not change what it is in this context.

 - Original Message - 
 From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: March 21, 2006 13:14
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?


 Excuse me, John, but nobody has proven that modalism is an error, so how
 can
 you use the word repent in regards to this?  Do you really think it is a
 sin
 for someone to think modalism is useful in understanding the Godhead?

 David Miller

 - Original Message - 
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:56 AM
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

 In short, Modalism  !!

 Modalism
 The error that there is only one person in the Godhead who manifests
 himself in three forms or manners:  Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
 REPENT  --  HURRY !!

 jd

 -- Original message -- 
 From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 GOD IS ONE; JESUS SAID I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE
 More accurately, one person in three manifestations


 On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 06:27:25 -0500 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 writes:
 ONE GOD IN THREE PERSONS
 From: ShieldsFamily

 Unity in Diversity.
 Fatness in Skinniness.
 Ugliness in Beauty.
 Dumbness in Intelligence.
 Wisdom in Nonsense.
 Jibberish in Eloquence.

 iz



 If your idea were so JD then Jesus would have prayed make them unity in
 diversity just as we are ...
 I see that nowhere in scripture.  Jesus said if someone had seen him they
 had seen the Father
 because he did only what he first saw the Father do and he said only what
 he
 first heard from the
 Father.  This is the kind of unity he was praying about JD.  Unifying
 around
 rebellion is what the
 end times harlot church is all about.

 On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 07:11:21 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 We shall be one as He and the Father are one, someday, Judy.   Right now,
 unity inspite of diversity is all we've got.
 Because you and I are not of the same Christ does not mean that unity in
 diversity does not exist.  jd
 From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Agreed!  I to hate all the isms and all the ologies.
 In fact I don't see why we can not lay them aside so

Re: [TruthTalk] Physics, Astronomy and Genesis chapters 1-11

Lance wrote:
 Do you truly believe (of course you do)
 that your logic, the logic of Scripture and
 God's logic are all the same

Of course!

Logic is logic, whether it is employed by Scripture, by God, or by me.  The 
logic is all the same.

David Miller

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism


I guess we'll not be going out on a high note, David!

As there was no 'smiley' in para #1, am I to take you seriously? Please 
check out Dr. McGrath's credentials. (speaking with you outside of your 
sectarian framework David, is often like speaking to a child) I've read 
pretty much everything he's written on science/theology. I've listened to 
several (5-6) courses. Why you chose to step out on your 'silly' foot, I do 
not know.


And David, how is it that you KNOW this to be true of Dr. McGrath? Have you 
read him? Have you heard him? Are you agnostic as to Dr. McGrath's 
credentials and his teaching on both science  theology? How is it that one 
could not appreciate your scholarship on this?



- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006 09:45
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism



Alister McGrath?  He was received at Oxford as an atheist, and later he
converted to Christianity.  I guess your point is that John should become 
an

atheist first and then he would get in?

You still don't get my point.  A Christian these days, according to many 
of

these theologians, must adopt the dogma that the mention of a Creator or
models that involve a Creator should not be taught in school.  All their
rhetoric about the compatibility of faith and science doesn't mean much at
all if they affirm this idea that the Creator should be ignored in the 
study

of science.

David Miller

- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:47 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism


David:

I'll take a pass on the ad-homs in your post as they simply illustrate 
what

I've said concerning you all along. You're an insular, rationalism-based,
anthropolically centered, angry, fundamentalist-based, sectarian. Ooops! I
didn't 'take a pass' did I?

I've but one name to give to you and this so-called grief stricken 
student.
Alister McGrath. Both of you do your homework so that you might see just 
how

wrong you are. (Bonus name: Thomas Weinandy).
Go to it guys!


- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006 08:39
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism



David Miller wrote:

I hate it when theologians are embarrassed
of giving glory to the Creator in school.


Lance wrote:

You do KNOW, do you not David, that
that's NOT the source of his embarrassment?
Rowan Williams is not embarrassed concerning
our Lord ANYWHERE. He, not unlike many,
are embarrassed over believers turning
non-issues into 'issues'. (i.e. creationISM)


There is more to this issue that this.  Is he embarrassed of certain
brands
of creationism?  Of course.  I am too.  I'm embarrassed of Henry Morris
and
that whole ICR group over there.  At the same time, they serve a purpose
in
what they do, and we should not revolt to them so much that we accept the
atheistic and scientific agenda of removing all references to the Creator
from our public schools.

You say it is a NON-ISSUE?  I consider such a statement ignorant in the
extreme.  Deceptive to the core.  There is one thing that the ICR group
has
illustrated, and that is that this is an issue.

I talked with a student a few months ago, John Boyles, just before he was
elected to be President of Student Government at the University of
Florida.
I talked with him about the persecution my daughter is undergoing at UF
just
because she believes the Bible that homosexual behavior is sinful.  He
confided to me that he applied for a Rhodes scholarship to study theology
at
Oxford.  He was turned down because he argued in his oral examination /
interview that the idea of Intelligent Design should be considered in the
classroom.  If this was a non-issue, these professors of theology would
have
tolerated his creationist convictions.  I wish I could convey to you the
grief this man carried over his own religious persecution by those who
would
not have him study theology because he believed intelligent design
theories
should be considered in school.

I truly believe that these modern theologians assume that scientists are
well studied in origins and are deeply convicted about the truth of
evolutionary processes and the absurdity of the teaching of Genesis. 
When
the truth comes out, they will be the ones who will be greatly 
embarrassed

in the day of our Lord.  The philosopher Thomas Khun was right in how he
depicted the way science really operates.  These theologians who object 
to

Creationist models of origins should pay attention to him just a little
bit
more.

David Miller

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

Lance wrote:
 If Williams is a 'liberal loonie' then
 you are a 'sectarian loonie' , David.

I'm sectarian only in the sense that the holy and the profane ought to be 
separate.  I am not sectarian within the group of those who have submitted 
unto Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.

Lance wrote:
 He is a brother in Christ who believes
 differently than you on some matters.
 Now, if that makes him what you say
 then, that makes you what I say.

He is not a liberal loony for believing differently from me.  The moniker 
was offered because of his statement about how acknowledgement of our 
Creator did not belong in schools.  He made an irrational statement, 
assuming that CNN reported him accurately.  If he is a brother in Christ, 
then I expect to hear a retraction or clarification made soon as other 
believers correct him.  If he is not a brother in Christ, then he will 
continue to support the working of iniquity that seeks to remove the 
acknowledgment of God our Creator from the schools.  What he said was very 
damaging to our society, to believers who want to acknowledge God the 
Creator in their study of origins.  To think that science and the 
acknowledgement of God are incompatible is expected from scientists but not 
from theologians, and certainly not from the Right Reverend Doctor Rowland 
Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury.

David Miller

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Sadly, Lance, you do not see that you are the one who offers only a 
harumph.  Kevin presented actual evidence for consideration.

David Miller

- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

David/Kevin: 'Good point'? As I said recently to David concerning
theology/science/logic; should you respond only with 'harumph' in the face
of mounting evidence then, you ought to be speaking only with those who hold
your views on things. This is a 'cultish' approach and, is inherently
dangerous.

- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 21, 2006 17:56
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

 ROTFLOL.  Good point, Kevin.

 David Miller

 - Original Message - 
 From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 5:05 PM
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

 Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has
 adopted the role of oppressor.

 ROTFL
 That is Ludicrous on the face of it.
 Where did you pick this whopper up?

 Perhaps you need a Geography lesson!
 http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html
 Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California,
 SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her
 size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil.  How dare Arab
 propagandists call Israel expansionist! And how dare anyone believe
 them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the
 lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of
 22 Arab countries? How can the  13 million Jews in the world (almost 5
 million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of
 the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to  1.4 billion Muslims
 worldwide?

 I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too
 Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of
 David before he meets Goliath!
 LOL

 --- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd
 'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly,
 Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the
 role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER.
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
   Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11
   Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin:
 Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

   There is little point in talking with someone who knows me better
 than I know me.   Such arrogant surmising is the product of the kind
 of narrowness that I disregard.

   jd

 -- Original message -- 
 From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Jd, I never said the Jews will be restored Outside of the church;
 they will be become believers.  You say you don't dislike Jews more
 than any other unbelievers.  It is obvious to me that you do.  Your
 stereotypes and slurs are very revealing.  Izzy

 Romans 11
 Israel Is Not Cast Away
  1I say then, God has not (A)rejected His people, has He? (B)May
 it never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham,
 of the tribe of Benjamin.

  2God (D)has not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew (F)Or do
 you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how
 he pleads with God against Israel?

  3Lord, (G)THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN
 YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE.

  4But what is the divine response to him? (H)I HAVE KEPT for
 Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL.

  5In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present
 time (I)a remnant according to God's gracious choice.

  6But (J)if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of
 works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

  7What then? What (K)Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but
 those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were (L)hardened;

  8just as it is written,
  (M)GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR,
  EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT,
  DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY.

  9And David says,
  (N)LET THEIR TABLE BECOME A SNARE AND A TRAP,
  AND A STUMBLING BLOCK AND A RETRIBUTION TO THEM.
 10(O)LET THEIR EYES BE DARKENED TO SEE NOT,
  AND BEND THEIR BACKS FOREVER.

  11(P)I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they?
 (Q)May it never be! But by their transgression (R)salvation has come
 to the Gentiles, to (S)make them jealous.

  12Now if

Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

David:Through God alone can God be known, David. EVERYBODY has access to 
truth, David. Believers, via the Holy Spirit (Rom 8:16) has special access 
to truth. They (believers) are indwelt by the Spirit of He who is truth, 
David.


As to mantras David, yours 'I have only the truth and, all of the truth all 
of the time is neither borne out by Scripture nor reality. I have every 
confidence that you've convinced your sect on this matter but, that, I'm 
sorry to say, is just downright sad.


 - Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006 09:52
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?



I would say what Martin Luther would say... show it to me by Scripture, not
by quoting a church father or some dignified scholar in the church.  You
seem to have no firm standard to judge what is of God and what is not, nor
do you seem to have any method whatsoever to discern the truth of 
Scripture.

Your biggest mantra is, nobody knows the truth!  From your perspective, we
all speculate and sometimes we accidentally overlap with truth and 
sometimes

we don't.

David Miller

- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?


David:My interpretation of what you just said:

'Lance:Judy and I see this matter as it should be seen. We've tried so 
hard
to get you to come around to see things our (God's) way. You do not see 
them

our (God's) way so, you do not see at all!

Of course, David, I'm aware of the distinction you two make! I'm 'thick'
but, not that 'thick.SOMETIMES and only SOMETIMES the two of you 
apprehend
THE TEACHING OF SCRIPTURE. SOMETIMES and only SOMETIMES that which is 
spoken

of as being 'orthodox' and the teaching of Scripture overlap.

The two of you, David. often MISAPPREHEND the actual teaching of 
Scripture!!

This is sometimes why the two of you are wrong vis a vis both Scripture's
teaching and orthodoxy. The two of you, on some occasions, are 
presumptuous

to the nth degree!!


- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006 08:43
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?



Lance, you have never been able to distinguish between Orthodoxy and the
teaching of Scripture.  Judy has been trying so hard to get you to see 
it.

Martin Luther, if he was here, would be trying so hard to get you to see
it.
You just don't get it.  Orthodoxy and the teaching of Scripture is not 
the

same thing.  We repent if we walk contrary to Scripture.  We do not
necessarily repent if we depart from Orthodoxy, nor do we call upon 
others

to repent if they depart from Orthodoxy.  The standard of Orthodoxy and
the
standard of the Bible are two different things.  Why can't you see that?

David Miller


- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:34 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?


David:'PROVEN'? 'ERROR' In the light of 'orthodox' thought concerning the
Triune nature of God David, it is an heresy. It'd appear to be an heresy
that is a part of YOUR BELIEVE CONCERNING THE TRIUNE NATURE OF GOD but,
that
does not change what it is in this context.

- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 21, 2006 13:14
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?



Excuse me, John, but nobody has proven that modalism is an error, so how
can
you use the word repent in regards to this?  Do you really think it is a
sin
for someone to think modalism is useful in understanding the Godhead?

David Miller

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

In short, Modalism  !!

Modalism
The error that there is only one person in the Godhead who manifests
himself in three forms or manners:  Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
REPENT  --  HURRY !!

jd

-- Original message -- 
From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]


GOD IS ONE; JESUS SAID I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE
More accurately, one person in three manifestations


On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 06:27:25 -0500 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
ONE GOD IN THREE PERSONS
From: ShieldsFamily

Unity in Diversity.
Fatness in Skinniness.
Ugliness in Beauty.
Dumbness in Intelligence.
Wisdom in Nonsense.
Jibberish in Eloquence.

iz



If your idea were so JD then Jesus would have prayed make them unity 
in

diversity just as we are ...
I see that nowhere in scripture.  Jesus said if someone had seen him 
they

had seen the Father
because he did

Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

And we all talk as if "David and Judy" agree on matters of critical importance. They do not. I leave TT knowing without any doubt of the discord that exists between pundents of the radical fundy side of the aisle. Their only concern is to continue the debate until the libs give up and walk away some of us will not do so and have hell to pay for that decision.

The refusal -- consistent among all fundies on and off TT -- to offer some kind of listing of "critical doctrines" is especially revealing. To a person, they know to do so would be to define themselves in exclusion of the others!! If Lance, Bill, Gary and others were not on TT, this group would bite and devour themselves. Have we forgotten the bitter exchanges between Judy and Linda Shields of a year or so ago? Or some of the crisp exchanges between Deegan and David or Dean and David? I haven't.

And, so , while the debate rages over "illumination [or not]," it should be known that , in the end, only one is illumined, either Judy or David or Deegan or Dean or ???

Couple all this with the fact that each and everyone simply cannot take what they dish out, that in their bitterness they refuse any occasion for "truse," responding to such suggestions from the opponent with increased angst. Five offers from me, alone -- zero positive response!!

My life has been richly changed by some on TT and "enlightened" by others. It is sad that fundies will try to defeat any effort of outreach that does not fit into their undefined theological mold.

Salute to you all and thanks to some.

That David did allow exchange is noteworthy, I must add, and I thank you for that.

J Smithson

-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] I would say what Martin Luther would say... show it to me by Scripture, not by quoting a church father or some dignified scholar in the church. You seem to have no firm standard to judge what is of God and what is not, nor do you seem to have any method whatsoever to discern the truth of Scripture. Your biggest mantra is, nobody knows the truth! From your perspective, we all speculate and sometimes we accidentally overlap with truth and sometimes we don't. David Miller - Original Message - From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:57 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?David:
My interpretation of what you just said: 'Lance:Judy and I see this matter as it should be seen. We've tried so hard to get you to come around to see things our (God's) way. You do not see them our (God's) way so, you do not see at all! Of course, David, I'm aware of the distinction you two make! I'm 'thick' but, not that 'thick".SOMETIMES and only SOMETIMES the two of you apprehend THE TEACHING OF SCRIPTURE. SOMETIMES and only SOMETIMES that which is spoken of as being 'orthodox' and the teaching of Scripture overlap. The two of you, David. often MISAPPREHEND the actual teaching of Scripture!! This is sometimes why the two of you are wrong vis a vis both Scripture's teaching and orthodoxy. The two of you, on some occasions, are presumptuous to the nth degree!!- Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <
BR> Sent: March 22, 2006 08:43 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? Lance, you have never been able to distinguish between Orthodoxy and the teaching of Scripture. Judy has been trying so hard to get you to see it. Martin Luther, if he was here, would be trying so hard to get you to see it. You just don't get it. Orthodoxy and the teaching of Scripture is not the same thing. We repent if we walk contrary to Scripture. We do not necessarily repent if we depart from Orthodoxy, nor do we call upon others to repent if they depart from Orthodoxy. The standard of Orthodoxy and the standard of the Bible are two different things. Why can't you see that? David Miller - Original Message - From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:34 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? David:'PROVEN'? 'ERROR' In the light of 'orthodox' thought concerning the Triune nature of God David, it is an heresy. It'd appear to be an heresy that is a part of YOUR BELIEVE CONCERNING THE TRIUNE NATURE OF GOD but, that does not change what it is in this context. - Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: March 21, 2006 13:14 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? Excuse me, John, but nobody has proven that modalism is an error, so how can you use the word repent in regards to this? Do you really think it is a sin for someone to think modalism is useful in

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

David:YIKES!! You mischaracterize both Williams and his position. DOUBLE 
YIKES!! I know that you will continue to do so. You are truly trapped, 
David. You've bound yourself with your own theology (not, as you believe, 
Scripture). Your teachers will one day answer for what they've done to you 
and, what you now do to others.Yikes! Yikes! Yikes (that'd be triple yikes)
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006 10:25
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

Lance wrote:

If Williams is a 'liberal loonie' then
you are a 'sectarian loonie' , David.

I'm sectarian only in the sense that the holy and the profane ought to be
separate.  I am not sectarian within the group of those who have submitted
unto Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.

Lance wrote:

He is a brother in Christ who believes
differently than you on some matters.
Now, if that makes him what you say
then, that makes you what I say.

He is not a liberal loony for believing differently from me.  The moniker
was offered because of his statement about how acknowledgement of our
Creator did not belong in schools.  He made an irrational statement,
assuming that CNN reported him accurately.  If he is a brother in Christ,
then I expect to hear a retraction or clarification made soon as other
believers correct him.  If he is not a brother in Christ, then he will
continue to support the working of iniquity that seeks to remove the
acknowledgment of God our Creator from the schools.  What he said was very
damaging to our society, to believers who want to acknowledge God the
Creator in their study of origins.  To think that science and the
acknowledgement of God are incompatible is expected from scientists but 
not

from theologians, and certainly not from the Right Reverend Doctor Rowland
Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury.

David Miller

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

David:It's because this is that which passes for evidence with such as 
yourself. I've seen that for a long time.
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006 10:26
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Sadly, Lance, you do not see that you are the one who offers only a
harumph.  Kevin presented actual evidence for consideration.

David Miller

- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

David/Kevin: 'Good point'? As I said recently to David concerning
theology/science/logic; should you respond only with 'harumph' in the face
of mounting evidence then, you ought to be speaking only with those who 
hold

your views on things. This is a 'cultish' approach and, is inherently
dangerous.

- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 21, 2006 17:56
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

ROTFLOL.  Good point, Kevin.

David Miller

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 5:05 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has
adopted the role of oppressor.

ROTFL
That is Ludicrous on the face of it.
Where did you pick this whopper up?

Perhaps you need a Geography lesson!
http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html
Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California,
SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her
size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil.  How dare Arab
propagandists call Israel expansionist! And how dare anyone believe
them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the
lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of
22 Arab countries? How can the  13 million Jews in the world (almost 5
million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of
the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to  1.4 billion Muslims
worldwide?

I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too
Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of
David before he meets Goliath!
LOL

--- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd
'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly,
Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the
role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER.
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin:
Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

  There is little point in talking with someone who knows me better
than I know me.   Such arrogant surmising is the product of the kind
of narrowness that I disregard.

  jd

-- Original message -- 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Jd, I never said the Jews will be restored Outside of the church;
they will be become believers.  You say you don't dislike Jews more
than any other unbelievers.  It is obvious to me that you do.  Your
stereotypes and slurs are very revealing.  Izzy

Romans 11
Israel Is Not Cast Away
 1I say then, God has not (A)rejected His people, has He? (B)May
it never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham,
of the tribe of Benjamin.

 2God (D)has not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew (F)Or do
you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how
he pleads with God against Israel?

 3Lord, (G)THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN
YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE.

 4But what is the divine response to him? (H)I HAVE KEPT for
Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL.

 5In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present
time (I)a remnant according to God's gracious choice.

 6But (J)if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of
works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

 7What then? What (K)Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but
those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were (L)hardened;

 8just as it is written,
 (M)GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR,
 EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT,
 DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY.

 9And David says,
 (N)LET THEIR TABLE BECOME A SNARE AND A TRAP,
 AND A STUMBLING BLOCK AND A RETRIBUTION TO THEM.
10(O)LET

[TruthTalk] In sum

2006-03-22 Thread ttxpress






On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:52:32 -0500 "David 
Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:.. [so  so has no]method 
whatsoever to discern the truth of Scripture 
:



On Sun, 5 Mar 2006 20:27:27 -0800 (PST) 
Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
the Bible has offered a *[partial but truthful] revelation concering Himself 
and His son
[*g]


---

On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 23:12:34 -0500 Judy 
Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  TRUTH IS Jesus 
  Christ
  
  g: then, implicitly,you area 
liar

Re: [TruthTalk] In sum

2006-03-22 Thread ttxpress




..adden~dum:

||

  
  
TRUTH IS [(e.g.)Joseph 
Smith]

g: then... (keep thinkin' about it:)

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

Lance wrote:
 Fundamental Christianity is [fine]... 
 FundamentalISM ought not be 
 believed by anyone.

FWIW:  I can appreciate this distinction Lance makes.

David Miller

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

Lance wrote:
 One's time would be better spent reading
 some noteworthy novelists than noteworthy
 creationists. Lift up Jesus and, creationISM,
 will fall away as it should.

I can't say that I agree with you here.  Have you read Creation's Tiny 
Mystery, by Robert Gentry?

David Miller

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] In sum




Oophs! The mockers have been emboldened 
...
Anarchy is at the door

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:47:26 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  
  On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:52:32 -0500 "David 
  Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:.. [so  so has no]method 
  whatsoever to discern the truth of Scripture 
  :
  
  
  
  On Sun, 5 Mar 2006 20:27:27 -0800 (PST) 
  Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  the Bible has offered a *[partial but truthful] revelation concering 
  Himself and His son
  [*g]
  
  
  ---
  
  On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 23:12:34 -0500 Judy 
  Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  
TRUTH IS Jesus 
Christ

g: then, implicitly,you area 
  liar

[TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?





If this were so Lance it would behoove you who are in 
the "know" to lay it
out clearly and succinctly so that we might be 
corrected. So far I have not
seen anything but tongue in cheek comments that are 
often snide along with
Personal shots and put 
downs. So what is your problem??

From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I would say what Martin Luther would say... show it to me by Scripture, not 
by quoting a church father or some dignified scholar in the church. 
You seem to have no firm standard to judge what is of God and what is not, 
nor do you seem to have any method whatsoever to discern the truth of 
Scripture. Your biggest mantra is, nobody knows the truth! From your 
perspective, we all speculate and sometimes we accidentally overlap with 
truth and sometimes we don't.

David Miller

From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 
Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:57 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in 
Genesis literal or figurative?


David:My interpretation of what you just said:

'Lance:Judy and I see this matter as it should be seen. We've tried so 
hardto get you to come around to see things our (God's) way. You do not see 
themour (God's) way so, you do not see at all!

Of course, David, I'm aware of the distinction you two make! I'm 
'thick'but, not that 'thick".SOMETIMES and only SOMETIMES the two of you 
apprehendTHE TEACHING OF SCRIPTURE. SOMETIMES and only SOMETIMES that which 
is spokenof as being 'orthodox' and the teaching of Scripture overlap.

The two of you, David. often MISAPPREHEND the actual teaching of 
Scripture!!This is sometimes why the two of you are wrong vis a vis both 
Scripture'steaching and orthodoxy. The two of you, on some occasions, are 
presumptuousto the nth degree!!


- Original Message - From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 
March 22, 2006 08:43Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal 
or figurative?


 Lance, you have never been able to distinguish between Orthodoxy and 
the teaching of Scripture. Judy has been trying so hard to get you 
to see it. Martin Luther, if he was here, would be trying so hard to get 
you to see it. You just don't get it. Orthodoxy and the 
teaching of Scripture is not the same thing. We repent if we walk 
contrary to Scripture. We do not necessarily repent if we depart 
from Orthodoxy, nor do we call upon others to repent if they depart from 
Orthodoxy. The standard of Orthodoxy and the standard of 
the Bible are two different things. Why can't you see 
that? David Miller - Original 
Message -  From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:34 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the 
day in Genesis literal or figurative? David:'PROVEN'? 
'ERROR' In the light of 'orthodox' thought concerning the Triune nature 
of God David, it is an heresy. It'd appear to be an heresy that is a 
part of YOUR BELIEVE CONCERNING THE TRIUNE NATURE OF GOD but, 
that does not change what it is in this context. - 
Original Message -  From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: March 21, 2006 13:14 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in 
Genesis literal or figurative? Excuse me, John, but 
nobody has proven that modalism is an error, so how can 
you use the word repent in regards to this? Do you really think it is 
a sin for someone to think modalism is useful in 
understanding the Godhead? David 
Miller - Original Message -  From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:56 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is 
the day in Genesis literal or figurative? In short, 
Modalism !! 
Modalism The error that there is only one 
person in the Godhead who manifests himself in three forms or 
manners: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. REPENT -- 
HURRY !! jd -- 
Original message --  From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
GOD IS ONE; JESUS SAID "I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE" More accurately, 
one person in three manifestations On Tue, 
21 Mar 2006 06:27:25 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes: ONE GOD IN THREE PERSONS From: 
ShieldsFamily Unity in Diversity. Fatness in 
Skinniness. Ugliness in Beauty. Dumbness in 
Intelligence. Wisdom in Nonsense. Jibberish in 
Eloquence. 
iz If your idea were so JD then 
Jesus would have prayed "make them "unity in diversity" just as we 
are ... I see that nowhere in scripture. Jesus said if someone 
had seen him they had seen the Father because he did 
only what he first saw the Father do and he said only what 
he first heard from the Father. This is the kind 
of unity he was praying about JD. Unifying around 
rebellion is what the end times "harlot church" is all 
about. On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 07:11:21 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes: We shall be one as He and the Father are one, 
someday, Judy. Right now, unity inspite of diversity is 
all we've

[TruthTalk] Scripture





That's real good Lance,
So insightful from someone who has no understanding at 
all.
I have never ever seen you present scripture as grounds 
for anything you believe.
It is always some theologian or other or else it is rcc 
orthodoxy... and yet you are
more opininionated than anyone I know who is a 
sincereand steady student of 
the Bible.

From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
David:No wonder you come both readily and frequently to Judy's defence. 
Now, if only we could clarify, prior to TT's demise, that you both hold to 
an heretical position concerning illumination/interpretation of 
Scripture.


From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 
March 21, 2006 17:56Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal 
or figurative?


 Yes. - Original Message -  From: 
"Kevin Deegan" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the 
day in Genesis literal or figurative? Do you 
still consider yourself a Trinitarian leaning towards Modalism? 
--- David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote: Excuse me, John, but nobody has proven that modalism 
is an error, so how can you use the word repent in 
regards to this? Do you really think it is a sin 
for someone to think modalism is useful in understanding the 
Godhead? David Miller - 
Original Message -  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:56 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is 
the day in Genesis literal or figurative? In short, 
Modalism !! 
Modalism The error that there is only 
one person in the Godhead who manifests himself in three 
forms or manners: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. REPENT 
-- HURRY !! jd 
-- Original message --  From: Judy Taylor 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
GOD IS ONE; JESUS SAID "I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE" More accurately, 
one person in three manifestations On Tue, 
21 Mar 2006 06:27:25 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes: ONE GOD IN THREE PERSONS From: 
ShieldsFamily Unity in Diversity. Fatness in 
Skinniness. Ugliness in Beauty. Dumbness in 
Intelligence. Wisdom in Nonsense. Jibberish in 
Eloquence. 
iz If your idea were so JD then 
Jesus would have prayed "make them "unity in diversity" 
just as we are ... I see that nowhere in scripture. Jesus said 
if someone had seen him they had seen the 
Father because he did only what he first saw the Father do and he 
said only what he first heard from the 
Father. This is the kind of unity he was praying about JD. 
Unifying around rebellion is what the end 
times "harlot church" is all about. On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 
07:11:21 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes: We shall be one as He and the Father are one, 
someday, Judy. Right now, unity inspite of 
diversity is all we've got. Because you and I are not of the same 
Christ does not mean that unity in diversity does not 
exist. jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Agreed! I to hate all the isms and all the ologies. In fact I 
don't see why we can not lay them aside so that we may 
recognize the faith once delivered to the saints and 
"walk in Truth" or reality. Jesus was not 
referring to any "Unity in diversity" in John 17. He prayed they 
would be One as He and the Father are One Is 
"Unity in diversity" how you see the Godhead or "Trinity?" 
JD On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 05:33:59 -0500 "Lance 
Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes: Sectarianism! Amen! Have you (of course you have) taken note 
of those who so identify others as sectarians while 
their group (sect) is thus reflective of a repristinated 
gospel. They seem themselves as 'recovering' the truth. 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
It has occurred to me that legalism, although unattractive as it is, 
is not my real complaint. Henceforth and forever more, I 
will be opposed to sectarianism. The legal content 
of the sectarian is often different -- but the sectarian 
is the same kind of cat, regardless of his/her stripes. 
They are the ones who oppose the unity concerns expressed by Christ 
in John 17. There can be unity in 
diversity. In sectarian circles, the only 
unity that exists is one borne of the fear of reprisal. 
jd From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
One other thought on the creation thread. I wrote my remarks 
more because of Conor than for any other 
reason. My comments can stand on their own, 
I believe. I do not believe in a 6000 year old earth nor do I 
beleive the bible teaches such - for the 
reasons stated. Could the earth be only 6000 years 
old. I suppose so, but only the sectarians beleive such, 
IMHO. Is God the creator? Now that is the 
real question. I would think we all agree on 
the answer to that question. End of the matter for 
me. And, so, the opportunity to delve into 
the character of the opponent is side tracked. 
Motivation be damned -- in a biblical sense , of 
course. 
jd From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 John wrote:   To your first question , 
"no."   If I get

Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses Giant!

After years of bloodshed even sissies might get a little aggitated.Please provide one quote: Where a Jew calls an arab a Rat Dog or vermin Where a leader of the nation of Israel calls for the complete annihilation of an Arab state Where the Jews through a party while dancing on the bodies of dead arabs Where Jews carry the entrails of dead arabs as a emblem of victory above their heads Where a jew drives his car through a crowd to show them what Jehovah thinks of them where Jews torture muslims Show me a picture of a Jew dressed up as a Human bomb! Show me some jewish Educational resources (books videos ) endorsing bombing muslims Show me Jewish TV shows endorsing Bombing muslimsThe Little sheppard boy is an Oppressor of the GIANT - Ludicrous on it's face! Ya Know that ruddy faced
sheppard boy does look a little intimidating! LOLhttp://jihadwatch.org/archives/010470.php Suicide bombing endorsed in kids book recommended by Canadian librarieshttp://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1120847/posts The body of a police special forces officer who died when Islamic terrorists blew themselves up in Madrid was taken from its grave, mutilated and burnt yesterday. In addition to supporting WMD thru CPP funds, do you also endorse these Suicide Bomb books in CANADIAN Libraries???Are these Jewish BOYS Then again Who is oppressing who? They oppress their own people! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4601244/ Turning a blind eye to child suicide bombers - Where's the outrage over the
Palestinians' mistreatment of children? ARE YOU BLIND IN ONE EYE? Slingshot MISHAP?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Even at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on some occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!- Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad But Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan Sent:
Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor. ROTFL That is Ludicrous on the face of it. Where did you pick this whopper up? Perhaps you need a Geography lesson! http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California, SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil. How dare Arab propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare anyone believe them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of
22 Arab countries? How can the 13 million Jews in the world (almost 5 million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to 1.4 billion Muslims worldwide? I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of David before he meets Goliath! LOL --- Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd 'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly, Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11 Subject: RE:
[TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad There is little point in talking with someone who knows me better than I know me. Such arrogant surmising is the product of the kind of narrowness that I disregard. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Jd, I never said the Jews will be restored Outside of the church; they will be become believers. You say you don't dislike Jews more than any other unbelievers. It is obvious to me that you do. Your stereotypes and slurs are very revealing. Izzy Romans 11 Israel Is Not Cast Away 1I say then, God has not (A)rejected His people, has He? (B)May it never be! For (C)I
too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God (D)has not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew (F)Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel? 3"Lord, (G)THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE." 4But what is the divine response to him? "(H)I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND

Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

Judy:Short of intervention by the Spirit of God, I
deem it IMPOSSIBLE for you to be shown anything on TT by anyone. I've observed
this over my entire stint on TT. Of course you'll disagree with this.

- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: March 22, 2006 11:58
Subject: [TruthTalk] Is the day in
Genesis literal or figurative?

If this were so Lance it would behoove you who are in
the "know" to lay it
out clearly and succinctly so that we might be
corrected. So far I have not
seen anything but tongue in cheek comments that are
often snide along with
Personal shots and put
downs. So what is your problem??

From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I would say what Martin Luther would say... show it to me by Scripture,
not by quoting a church father or some dignified scholar in the
church. You seem to have no firm standard to judge what is of God
and what is not, nor do you seem to have any method whatsoever to discern
the truth of Scripture. Your biggest mantra is, nobody knows the
truth! From your perspective, we all speculate and sometimes we
accidentally overlap with truth and sometimes we don't.

David Miller

From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent:
Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:57 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in
Genesis literal or figurative?

David:My interpretation of what you just said:

'Lance:Judy and I see this matter as it should be seen. We've tried so
hardto get you to come around to see things our (God's) way. You do not
see themour (God's) way so, you do not see at all!

Of course, David, I'm aware of the distinction you two make! I'm
'thick'but, not that 'thick".SOMETIMES and only SOMETIMES the two of you
apprehendTHE TEACHING OF SCRIPTURE. SOMETIMES and only SOMETIMES that
which is spokenof as being 'orthodox' and the teaching of Scripture
overlap.

The two of you, David. often MISAPPREHEND the actual teaching of
Scripture!!This is sometimes why the two of you are wrong vis a vis both
Scripture'steaching and orthodoxy. The two of you, on some occasions, are
presumptuousto the nth degree!!

- Original Message - From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent:
March 22, 2006 08:43Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal
or figurative?

Lance, you have never been able to distinguish between Orthodoxy and
the teaching of Scripture. Judy has been trying so hard to get
you to see it. Martin Luther, if he was here, would be trying so hard
to get you to see it. You just don't get it. Orthodoxy
and the teaching of Scripture is not the same thing. We repent
if we walk contrary to Scripture. We do not necessarily repent
if we depart from Orthodoxy, nor do we call upon others to repent if
they depart from Orthodoxy. The standard of Orthodoxy and
the standard of the Bible are two different things. Why can't
you see that? David Miller -
Original Message - From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:34 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is
the day in Genesis literal or figurative?
David:'PROVEN'? 'ERROR' In the light of 'orthodox' thought concerning
the Triune nature of God David, it is an heresy. It'd appear to be an
heresy that is a part of YOUR BELIEVE CONCERNING THE TRIUNE NATURE OF
GOD but, that does not change what it is in this
context. - Original Message - From: "David
Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 21, 2006 13:14 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in
Genesis literal or figurative? Excuse me, John,
but nobody has proven that modalism is an error, so how
can you use the word repent in regards to this? Do you
really think it is a sin for someone to think modalism
is useful in understanding the Godhead? David
Miller - Original Message - From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ;
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:56 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is
the day in Genesis literal or figurative? In short,
Modalism !!
Modalism The error that there is only one
person in the Godhead who manifests himself in three forms or
manners: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. REPENT --
HURRY !! jd --
Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
GOD IS ONE; JESUS SAID "I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE" More accurately,
one person in three manifestations On Tue,
21 Mar 2006 06:27:25 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes: ONE GOD IN THREE PERSONS From:
ShieldsFamily Unity in Diversity. Fatness
in Skinniness. Ugliness in Beauty. Dumbness in
Intelligence. Wisdom in Nonsense. Jibberish in
Eloquence.
iz If your idea

Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

Lance wrote:
 As to mantras David, yours 'I have only
 the truth and, all of the truth all of the time
 is neither borne out by Scripture nor reality.

This is not my mantra.  We have a communication problem here.  I do not 
believe that I have only the truth or all of the truth all of the time.  I 
don't believe that is true about anybody.

David Miller
Too tired with being misunderstood to continue...

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses Giant!




Excellent point again, Kevin. Stand by for the "harumph" in spite of 
all the evidence.

David Miller

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:24 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced 
  sheppard opresses Giant!
  
  After years of bloodshed even sissies might get a little aggitated.
  
  Please provide one quote:
  Where a Jew calls an arab a Rat Dog or vermin
  Where a leader of the nation of Israel calls for the complete 
  annihilation of an Arab state
  Where the Jews through a party while dancing on the bodies of dead 
  arabs
  Where Jews carry the entrails of dead arabs as a emblem of victory above 
  their heads
  Where a jew drives his car through a crowd to show them what Jehovah 
  thinks of them
  where Jews torture muslims
  Show me a picture of a Jew dressed up as a Human bomb!
  Show me some jewish Educational resources (books videos ) endorsing 
  bombing muslims
  Show me Jewish TV shows endorsing Bombing muslims
  
  The Little sheppard boy is an Oppressor of the GIANT - Ludicrous on it's 
  face!
  Ya Know that ruddy faced sheppard boy does look a little intimidating! 
  LOL
  
  http://jihadwatch.org/archives/010470.php
  Suicide bombing endorsed in kids book 
  recommended by Canadian libraries
  
  http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1120847/posts
  The body of a police special forces officer who died when Islamic 
  terrorists blew themselves up in Madrid was taken from its grave, mutilated 
  and burnt yesterday.
  In addition to supporting WMD thru 
  CPP funds, do you also endorse these Suicide Bomb books in CANADIAN 
  Libraries???
  
  Are these Jewish BOYS
  
  
  Then again Who is oppressing who?
  They oppress their own people!
  http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4601244/
  Turning a blind eye to child suicide bombers - 
  Where's the outrage over the Palestinians' 
  mistreatment of children?
  ARE YOU BLIND IN ONE EYE? Slingshot MISHAP?
  
  Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Even 
at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on some 
occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!- 
Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: March 
21, 2006 21:49Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi 
Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad But 
Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) 
iz -Original Message- From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan 
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special 
Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is 
Bad Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by 
believers, has adopted the role of oppressor. 
ROTFL That is Ludicrous on the face of it. Where did you 
pick this whopper up? Perhaps you need a Geography 
lesson! http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html Israel in 
RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California, 
SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES 
her size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil. How dare 
Arab propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare anyone 
believe them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one 
percent of the lands called Arab, be responsible for the political 
dissatisfaction of 22 Arab countries? How can the 13 million Jews in 
the world (almost 5 million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed 
for the problems of the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties 
to 1.4 billion Muslims worldwide? I guess DAVID 
OPPRESSED GOLIATH too Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like 
the UN call for disarmament of David before he meets 
Goliath! LOL --- Lance Muir 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Lance chimes in: Just like 
you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd 'rant'. but, my 
goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly, Israel, many 
times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of 
oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER. From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 21, 2006 
12:11 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi 
Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is 
Bad There is little point in talking 
with someone who knows me better than I know me. Such arrogant 
surmising is the product of the kind of narrowness that I 
disregard. jd -- 
Original message --  From: "ShieldsFamily" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Jd, I never said the Jews 
will be restored Outside of the church; they will be become 
believers. You say you don't dislike Jews more than any other 
unbelievers. It is obvious to me

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

No, I've not but, what would I learn were I to do so, David?

- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006 10:50
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

Lance wrote:

One's time would be better spent reading
some noteworthy novelists than noteworthy
creationists. Lift up Jesus and, creationISM,
will fall away as it should.

I can't say that I agree with you here.  Have you read Creation's Tiny
Mystery, by Robert Gentry?

David Miller

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses Giant!




Hmm curiouser  curiouserBehind the 
'Looking Glass' would one encounter DM  KD? As John, the good bishop said, 
without the you-know-who's on TT it'd be one grand backslapping 'hail fellow 
well met'

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  David Miller 
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 22, 2006 13:10
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced 
  sheppard opresses Giant!
  
  Excellent point again, Kevin. Stand by for the "harumph" in spite 
  of all the evidence.
  
  David Miller
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:24 
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced 
sheppard opresses Giant!

After years of bloodshed even sissies might get a little 
aggitated.

Please provide one quote:
Where a Jew calls an arab a Rat Dog or vermin
Where a leader of the nation of Israel calls for the complete 
annihilation of an Arab state
Where the Jews through a party while dancing on the bodies of dead 
arabs
Where Jews carry the entrails of dead arabs as a emblem of victory 
above their heads
Where a jew drives his car through a crowd to show them what Jehovah 
thinks of them
where Jews torture muslims
Show me a picture of a Jew dressed up as a Human bomb!
Show me some jewish Educational resources (books videos ) endorsing 
bombing muslims
Show me Jewish TV shows endorsing Bombing muslims

The Little sheppard boy is an Oppressor of the GIANT - Ludicrous on 
it's face!
Ya Know that ruddy faced sheppard boy does look a little intimidating! 
LOL

http://jihadwatch.org/archives/010470.php
Suicide bombing endorsed in kids book 
recommended by Canadian libraries

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1120847/posts
The body of a police special forces officer who died when Islamic 
terrorists blew themselves up in Madrid was taken from its grave, mutilated 
and burnt yesterday.
In addition to supporting WMD 
thru CPP funds, do you also endorse these Suicide Bomb books in CANADIAN 
Libraries???

Are these Jewish BOYS


Then again Who is oppressing who?
They oppress their own people!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4601244/
Turning a blind eye to child suicide bombers 
- Where's the outrage over the 
Palestinians' mistreatment of children?
ARE YOU BLIND IN ONE EYE? Slingshot MISHAP?

Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Even 
  at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on some 
  occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!- 
  Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily" 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: 
  March 21, 2006 21:49Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from 
  Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is 
  Bad But Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor 
  sissies!) iz -Original Message- From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin 
  Deegan Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM To: 
  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special 
  Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is 
  Bad Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by 
  believers, has adopted the role of oppressor. 
  ROTFL That is Ludicrous on the face of it. Where did you 
  pick this whopper up? Perhaps you need a Geography 
  lesson! http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html Israel in 
  RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California, 
  SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES 
  her size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil. How dare 
  Arab propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare anyone 
  believe them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one 
  percent of the lands called Arab, be responsible for the political 
  dissatisfaction of 22 Arab countries? How can the 13 million Jews 
  in the world (almost 5 million fewer than they were in 1939!) be 
  blamed for the problems of the 300 million Arabs, who have 
  brotherly ties to 1.4 billion Muslims worldwide? I 
  guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too Israel Oppressing the 
  Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of David before he meets 
  Goliath! LOL --- Lance Muir 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Lance chimes in: Just 
  like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd 'rant'. but, 
  my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly, Israel, 
  many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the 
  role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER. From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; 
  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March

Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

It just might be the case that YOU are not as good a communicater as YOU 
believe yourself to be, David. Ah well, David, soon a long rest from TT and, 
onto things more important!
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006 13:08
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

Lance wrote:

As to mantras David, yours 'I have only
the truth and, all of the truth all of the time
is neither borne out by Scripture nor reality.

This is not my mantra.  We have a communication problem here.  I do not
believe that I have only the truth or all of the truth all of the time.  I
don't believe that is true about anybody.

David Miller
Too tired with being misunderstood to continue...

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
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Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

David Miller wrote:
 Have you read Creation's Tiny
 Mystery, by Robert Gentry?

Lance wrote:
 No, I've not but, what would I learn
 were I to do so, David?

I'm glad you asked.

There are several things you would learn:

1.  You would learn about the evidence for polonium halos indicating that 
the basement rocks of the earth were created rapidly, in minutes, rather 
than cooling over a million years.

2.  You would see a clear example of how science operates by constructing 
hypotheses and testing those hypotheses, falsifying each one.

3.  You would learn about the bigotry in science against publishing articles 
that suggest a creationist model of origins.

4.  You would learn a little about how a court room judge relied upon expert 
testimony to the exclusion of examining scientific evidence.

The book is an easy read, and it breaks down the science into very simple 
concepts.  It is well worth the read by anyone interested in the creation 
versus evolution controversy.

David Miller

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
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Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses Giant!

There were many years of TruthTalk without Lance and JD.  No, it was not a 
lot of backslapping.

David Miller

- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses Giant!

Hmm curiouser  curiouserBehind the 'Looking Glass' would one 
encounter DM  KD? As John, the good bishop said, without the you-know-who's 
on TT it'd be one grand backslapping 'hail fellow well met'
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006 13:10
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses Giant!

Excellent point again, Kevin.  Stand by for the harumph in spite of all 
the evidence.

David Miller
- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses Giant!

After years of bloodshed even sissies might get a little aggitated.

Please provide one quote:
Where a Jew calls an arab a Rat Dog or vermin
Where a leader of the nation of Israel calls for the complete annihilation 
of an Arab state
Where the Jews through a party while dancing on the bodies of dead arabs
Where Jews carry the entrails of dead arabs as a emblem of victory above 
their heads
Where a jew drives his car through a crowd to show them what Jehovah thinks 
of them
where Jews torture muslims
Show me a picture of a Jew dressed up as a Human bomb!
Show me some jewish Educational resources (books videos ) endorsing bombing 
muslims
Show me Jewish TV shows endorsing Bombing muslims

The Little sheppard boy is an Oppressor of the GIANT - Ludicrous on it's 
face!
Ya Know that ruddy faced sheppard boy does look a little intimidating! LOL

http://jihadwatch.org/archives/010470.php
Suicide bombing endorsed in kids book recommended by Canadian libraries

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1120847/posts
The body of a police special forces officer who died when Islamic terrorists 
blew themselves up in Madrid was taken from its grave, mutilated and burnt 
yesterday.

In addition to supporting WMD thru CPP funds, do you also endorse these 
Suicide Bomb books in CANADIAN Libraries???

Are these Jewish BOYS

Then again Who is oppressing who?
They oppress their own people!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4601244/
Turning a blind eye to child suicide bombers - Where's the outrage over the 
Palestinians' mistreatment of children?
ARE YOU BLIND IN ONE EYE? Slingshot MISHAP?

Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Even at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on some
occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!

- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily
To:
Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

 But Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) iz

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
 Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

 Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has
 adopted the role of oppressor.

 ROTFL
 That is Ludicrous on the face of it.
 Where did you pick this whopper up?

 Perhaps you need a Geography lesson!
 http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html
 Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California,
 SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her
 size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil. How dare Arab
 propagandists call Israel expansionist! And how dare anyone believe
 them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the
 lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of
 22 Arab countries? How can the 13 million Jews in the world (almost 5
 million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of
 the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to 1.4 billion Muslims
 worldwide?

 I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too
 Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of
 David before he meets Goliath!
 LOL

 --- Lance Muir wrote:

 Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd
 'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly,
 Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the
 role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER.
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11
 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin:
 Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

 There is little point in talking with someone who knows me better
 than I know me. Such arrogant surmising is the product of the kind
 of narrowness that

Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?




Your observations are delusions Lance; I have learned 
much during my time on TT
Just because you have no insight does not negate the 
reality. Nor does it let you off
the hook. If you have all of this insight that 
DavidM and myself lack then it is your
responsibility to lay it out. judyt

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:39:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Judy:Short of intervention by the Spirit of God, 
  I deem it IMPOSSIBLE for you to be shown 
  anything on TT by anyone. I've observed this over 
  my entire stint on TT. Of course you'll disagree with this. 
  
From: Judy Taylor 

If this were so Lance it would behoove you who are 
in the "know" to lay it
out clearly and succinctly so that we might be 
corrected. So far I have not
seen anything but tongue in cheek comments that are 
often snide along with
Personal shots and put 
downs. So what is your problem??


From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 
Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:57 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in 
Genesis literal or figurative?


David:My interpretation of what you just said:

'Lance:Judy and I see this matter as it should be seen. We've tried so 
hardto get you to come around to see things our (God's) way. You do not 
see themour (God's) way so, you do not see at all!

Of course, David, I'm aware of the distinction you two make! I'm 
'thick'but, not that 'thick".SOMETIMES and only SOMETIMES the two of you 
apprehendTHE TEACHING OF SCRIPTURE. SOMETIMES and only SOMETIMES that 
which is spokenof as being 'orthodox' and the teaching of Scripture 
overlap.

The two of you, David. often MISAPPREHEND the actual teaching of 
Scripture!!This is sometimes why the two of you are wrong vis a vis both 
Scripture'steaching and orthodoxy. The two of you, on some occasions, 
are presumptuousto the nth degree!!


- Original Message - From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 
March 22, 2006 08:43Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis 
literal or figurative?


 Lance, you have never been able to distinguish between Orthodoxy 
and the teaching of Scripture. Judy has been trying so hard to 
get you to see it. Martin Luther, if he was here, would be trying so 
hard to get you to see it. You just don't get it. 
Orthodoxy and the teaching of Scripture is not the same thing. 
We repent if we walk contrary to Scripture. We do not 
necessarily repent if we depart from Orthodoxy, nor do we call upon 
others to repent if they depart from Orthodoxy. The standard 
of Orthodoxy and the standard of the Bible are two different 
things. Why can't you see that? David 
Miller - Original Message -  From: 
"Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:34 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is 
the day in Genesis literal or figurative? 
David:'PROVEN'? 'ERROR' In the light of 'orthodox' thought concerning 
the Triune nature of God David, it is an heresy. It'd appear to be 
an heresy that is a part of YOUR BELIEVE CONCERNING THE TRIUNE 
NATURE OF GOD but, that does not change what it is in this 
context. - Original Message -  From: "David 
Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: March 21, 2006 13:14 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in 
Genesis literal or figurative? Excuse me, John, 
but nobody has proven that modalism is an error, so how 
can you use the word repent in regards to this? Do you 
really think it is a sin for someone to think 
modalism is useful in understanding the Godhead? 
David Miller - Original Message - 
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:56 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] 
Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? In 
short, Modalism !! 
Modalism The error that there is only 
one person in the Godhead who manifests himself in three forms 
or manners: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. REPENT 
-- HURRY !! jd 
-- Original message --  From: Judy 
Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
GOD IS ONE; JESUS SAID "I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE" More 
accurately, one person in three 
manifestations On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 
06:27:25 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes: ONE GOD IN THREE PERSONS From: 
ShieldsFamily Unity in Diversity. 
Fatness in Skinniness. Ugliness in Beauty. Dumbness 
in Intelligence. Wisdom in Nonsense. Jibberish in 
Eloquence. 
iz If your idea were so JD 
then Jesus would have prayed "make them "unity in diversity" 
just as we are ... I see that nowhere in scripture. Jesus

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

It is a shame we will not be able to finish this thread, I suppose, but I must say something here -- the conflict (speaking for myself) is not between science and religion. It is between religion and fundamentalism (radical fundamentalism, if you will.) Knowing that the first step will not be last step for Rad Fundies, I prefer to deal with the situation outside the school setting. The church has done an excellent job in this regard with the High School population -- but it has forsaken the University campus' without a fight. Truth will win out if compared to that which has no bearings. The failure, here, is with the church and its seeming inability to continue with the college age population. It -- religion - simply does not need to be in collegiate curriculum to win the fight for the hearts and minds of the college age student.

The church has done a shameful job with the older student, just as it does with the unwanted-infant population. If the church could place 1.4 million newborns each year -- abortion would be EASILY defeated. But , as long as we think that after birth,it is all up to the infant, well, the battle will rage.

In short -- the fundies (and not they alone) do not want the kind of involvement that would make victory in either venue almost undeniable. I do not want the Carroll Dean's and Pat Robertsons of this world running anything of an evangelistic nature.

-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lance wrote: If Williams is a 'liberal loonie' then you are a 'sectarian loonie' , David. I'm sectarian only in the sense that the holy and the profane ought to be separate. I am not sectarian within the group of those who have submitted unto Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. Lance wrote: He is a brother in Christ who believes differently than you on some matters. Now, if that makes him what you say then, that makes you what I say. He is not a liberal loony for believing differently from me. The moniker was offered because of his statement about how acknowledgement of our Creator did not belong in schools. He made an irrational statement, assuming tha
t CNN reported him accurately. If he is a brother in Christ, then I expect to hear a retraction or clarification made soon as other believers correct him. If he is not a brother in Christ, then he will continue to support the working of iniquity that seeks to remove the acknowledgment of God our Creator from the schools. What he said was very damaging to our society, to believers who want to acknowledge God the Creator in their study of origins. To think that science and the acknowledgement of God are incompatible is expected from scientists but not from theologians, and certainly not from the Right Reverend Doctor Rowland Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury. David Miller -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this lis
t, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

It is arrogance for you to think that you know more about the issue than we
do simply because we don't agree.  Add to that the ridiculously outrageous
nature of your accusations.  izzy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 6:56 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

I'd answer IFF you'd read/watch (i.e. make use of) the data available. We 
both know that you (and David and, Judy and, Iz) would not.

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 21, 2006 17:05
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

 Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has
 adopted the role of oppressor.

 ROTFL
 That is Ludicrous on the face of it.
 Where did you pick this whopper up?

 Perhaps you need a Geography lesson!
 http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html
 Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California,
 SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her
 size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil.  How dare Arab
 propagandists call Israel expansionist! And how dare anyone believe
 them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the
 lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of
 22 Arab countries? How can the  13 million Jews in the world (almost 5
 million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of
 the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to  1.4 billion Muslims
 worldwide?

 I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too
 Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of
 David before he meets Goliath!
 LOL

 --- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd
 'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly,
 Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the
 role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER.
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
   Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11
   Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin:
 Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

   There is little point in talking with someone who knows me better
 than I know me.   Such arrogant surmising is the product of the kind
 of narrowness that I disregard.

   jd

 -- Original message -- 
 From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Jd, I never said the Jews will be restored Outside of the church;
 they will be become believers.  You say you don't dislike Jews more
 than any other unbelievers.  It is obvious to me that you do.  Your
 stereotypes and slurs are very revealing.  Izzy

 Romans 11
 Israel Is Not Cast Away
  1I say then, God has not (A)rejected His people, has He? (B)May
 it never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham,
 of the tribe of Benjamin.

  2God (D)has not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew (F)Or do
 you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how
 he pleads with God against Israel?

  3Lord, (G)THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN
 YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE.

  4But what is the divine response to him? (H)I HAVE KEPT for
 Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL.

  5In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present
 time (I)a remnant according to God's gracious choice.

  6But (J)if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of
 works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

  7What then? What (K)Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but
 those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were (L)hardened;

  8just as it is written,
  (M)GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR,
  EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT,
  DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY.

  9And David says,
  (N)LET THEIR TABLE BECOME A SNARE AND A TRAP,
  AND A STUMBLING BLOCK AND A RETRIBUTION TO THEM.
 10(O)LET THEIR EYES BE DARKENED TO SEE NOT,
  AND BEND THEIR BACKS FOREVER.

  11(P)I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they?
 (Q)May it never be! But by their transgression (R)salvation has come
 to the Gentiles, to (S)make them jealous.

  12Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their
 failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their
 (T)fulfillment be!

  13But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as
 (U)I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,

  14if somehow I might (V)move to jealousy (W)my fellow countrymen
 and (X)save some of them.

  15For if their

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

Only in your hair-splitting mentality. iz

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:03 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

Iz:Fundamental Christianity is that which John believes. FundamentalISM 
ought not be believed by anyone.

- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 21, 2006 21:48
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

 If fundamental Christianity is a problem for you, of what spirit are you? 
 iz

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
 Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:15 PM
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

 DM says In case you did not notice, the fundamentalists are not causing
 the acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden in schools.  It is
 the liberal loonies like this Archbishop of Canterbury who are doing
 this.

 Some around here are concerned that there are FUNDIES lurking around
 every keyboard on TT.
 Perhaps these previous comments are a incantation meant to flush them
 out into the open.
 One can never be to prepared to protect oneself from fundaMENTALism!

 --- David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 John wrote:
  The world in which we live would reject
  any mention of God in the evolutionary process,
  IMO.   But  creationism in the schools?   Could
  that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical
  fundamentalist take-over of the culture?

 ROTFLOL.  I sure hope you were being facetious on purpose.

 John wrote:
  But to allow a mere  statement that suggests God
  is somehow in control as the Creator(?)   If this
  could be presented into the secular system of
  education without it being coopted by the fundies
  --  go for it.   But I doubt that it can.  What a shame
  that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom forces
  the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful opportunity
  to introduce the Creator to others.

 In case you did not notice, the fundamentalists are not causing the
 acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden in schools.  It is the
 liberal loonies like this Archbishop of Canterbury who are doing
 this.

 David Miller

 __
 Do You Yahoo!?
 Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
 http://mail.yahoo.com
 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
 know
 how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
 http://www.InnGlory.org

 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
 friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
 know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
 http://www.InnGlory.org

 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
 friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
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Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism




So?
There isn't a single fiew of the whole church that is 
agreed upon
by the whole church either. What does that 
prove? judyt

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do. I know 
  this -- 
  there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed upon by the whole 
  church. 
  
  jd
  
  
  
  -- 
Original message -- From: "David Miller" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 



John wrote:
 The world in which we live would reject 
 any mention of God in the evolutionary process, 
 IMO. But creationism in the schools? 
Could 
 that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical 
 fundamentalist take-over of the culture? 
ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being facetious on 
purpose.

John wrote:
 But to allow a mere statement that suggests God 
 is somehow in control as the Creator(?) If this 
 could be presented into the secular system of 
 education without it being coopted by the fundies 
 -- go for it. But I doubt that it can. 
What a shame 
 that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom forces 
 the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful opportunity 
 to introduce the Creator to others. 
In case you did not notice,the fundamentalists are 
notcausing the acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden 
inschools. It is the liberal loonies like thisArchbishop 
of Canterbury who are doing this.

David Miller

Re: [TruthTalk] In sum


Go back to sleep, Judy, and the problem just might resolve itself. 

jd

-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Oophs! The mockers have been emboldened ...
Anarchy is at the door

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:47:26 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:



On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:52:32 -0500 "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:.. [so  so has no]method whatsoever to discern the truth of Scripture :



On Sun, 5 Mar 2006 20:27:27 -0800 (PST) Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
the Bible has offered a *[partial but truthful] revelation concering Himself and His son
[*g]


---

On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 23:12:34 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

TRUTH IS Jesus Christ

g: then, implicitly,you area liar

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism




Let me get this straight JD.
By Rad Fundies you are talking about people who believe 
Genesis as it is
written - Right??

PS What is wrong with the Carroll Dean's and the Pat 
Robertsons of this
world? You may have to eat those words one day because 
both are busy
about what they believe God has called them to do and 
who are you to
denigrate another man's servant. O thou Romans 14 
theological expert...

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:18:00 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  It is a shame we will not be able to finish this thread, I 
  suppose, but I must say something here -- the 
  conflict (speaking for myself) is not between science and 
  religion. It is between religion and fundamentalism (radical 
  fundamentalism, if you will.) Knowing that the first step will not 
  be last step for Rad Fundies, I prefer to deal with the situation 
  outside the school setting. The church has done an excellent 
  job in this regard with the High School population -- but it has 
  forsaken the University campus' without a fight. Truth will win 
  out if compared to that which has no bearings. The failure, 
  here, is with the church and its seeming inability to continue with the 
  college age population. It -- religion - simply does 
  not need to be in collegiate curriculum to win the fight for the hearts and 
  minds of the college age student. 
  
  The church has done a shameful job with the older student, just as it 
  does with the unwanted-infant population. If the church 
  could place 1.4 million newborns each year -- abortion would 
  be EASILY defeated. But , as long as we think that after 
  birth,it is all up to the infant, well, the battle will 
  rage. 
  
  In short -- the fundies (and not they alone) do not 
  want the kind of involvement that would make victory in either venue almost 
  undeniable. I do not want the Carroll Dean's and Pat Robertsons of this 
  world running anything of an evangelistic nature.
  
  jd
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  -- 
Original message -- From: "David Miller" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Lance wrote:   If 
Williams is a 'liberal loonie' then   you are a 'sectarian 
loonie' , David.   I'm sectarian only in the sense that the 
holy and the profane ought to be  separate. I am not sectarian 
within the group of those who have submitted  unto Jesus Christ as 
their Lord and Savior.   Lance wrote:   He is a 
brother in Christ who believes   differently than you on some 
matters.   Now, if that makes him what you say   
then, that makes you what I say.   He is not a liberal loony 
for believing differently from me. The moniker  was offered because 
of his statement about how acknowledgement of our  Creator did not 
belong in schools. He made an irrational statement,  assuming tha t 
CNN reported him accurately. If he is a brother in Christ,  then I 
expect to hear a retraction or clarification made soon as other  
believers correct him. If he is not a brother in Christ, then he will 
 continue to support the working of iniquity that seeks to remove 
the  acknowledgment of God our Creator from the schools. What he 
said was very  damaging to our society, to believers who want to 
acknowledge God the  Creator in their study of origins. To think 
that science and the  acknowledgement of God are incompatible is 
expected from scientists but not  from theologians, and certainly 
not from the Right Reverend Doctor Rowland  Williams, Archbishop of 
Canterbury.   David Miller   -- 
 "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you 
may know how  you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org   If you do not want to receive 
posts from this lis t, send an email to  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend  who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and  
he will be subscribed.

RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Baloney. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:04 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Even at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on some 
occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!

- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

 But Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) iz

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
 Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

 Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has
 adopted the role of oppressor.

 ROTFL
 That is Ludicrous on the face of it.
 Where did you pick this whopper up?

 Perhaps you need a Geography lesson!
 http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html
 Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California,
 SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her
 size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil.  How dare Arab
 propagandists call Israel expansionist! And how dare anyone believe
 them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the
 lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of
 22 Arab countries? How can the  13 million Jews in the world (almost 5
 million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of
 the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to  1.4 billion Muslims
 worldwide?

 I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too
 Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of
 David before he meets Goliath!
 LOL

 --- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd
 'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly,
 Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the
 role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER.
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
   Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11
   Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin:
 Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

   There is little point in talking with someone who knows me better
 than I know me.   Such arrogant surmising is the product of the kind
 of narrowness that I disregard.

   jd

 -- Original message -- 
 From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Jd, I never said the Jews will be restored Outside of the church;
 they will be become believers.  You say you don't dislike Jews more
 than any other unbelievers.  It is obvious to me that you do.  Your
 stereotypes and slurs are very revealing.  Izzy

 Romans 11
 Israel Is Not Cast Away
  1I say then, God has not (A)rejected His people, has He? (B)May
 it never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham,
 of the tribe of Benjamin.

  2God (D)has not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew (F)Or do
 you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how
 he pleads with God against Israel?

  3Lord, (G)THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN
 YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE.

  4But what is the divine response to him? (H)I HAVE KEPT for
 Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL.

  5In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present
 time (I)a remnant according to God's gracious choice.

  6But (J)if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of
 works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

  7What then? What (K)Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but
 those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were (L)hardened;

  8just as it is written,
  (M)GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR,
  EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT,
  DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY.

  9And David says,
  (N)LET THEIR TABLE BECOME A SNARE AND A TRAP,
  AND A STUMBLING BLOCK AND A RETRIBUTION TO THEM.
 10(O)LET THEIR EYES BE DARKENED TO SEE NOT,
  AND BEND THEIR BACKS FOREVER.

  11(P)I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they?
 (Q)May it never be! But by their transgression (R)salvation has come
 to the Gentiles, to (S)make them jealous.

  12Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their
 failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their
 (T)fulfillment be!

  13But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as
 (U)I am

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

The problem is when any belief held by a fundamental Christian is labeled
Fundamentalism. izzy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Miller
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 9:28 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

Lance wrote:
 Fundamental Christianity is [fine]... 
 FundamentalISM ought not be 
 believed by anyone.

FWIW:  I can appreciate this distinction Lance makes.

David Miller

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
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RE: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses Giant!









Oh, Kevin, how very unfair of you to
disprove Lances anti-Semitism with the FACTS!!! (And how utterly futile,
no doubt.) izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006
11:25 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy
faced sheppard opresses Giant!







After years of bloodshed even sissies might get a little aggitated.











Please provide one quote:





Where a Jew calls an arab a Rat Dog or vermin





Where a leader of the nation of Israel calls for the complete
annihilation of an Arab state





Where the Jews through a party while dancing on the bodies of dead
arabs





Where Jews carry the entrails of dead arabs as a emblem of victory
above their heads





Where a jew drives his car through a crowd to show them what Jehovah
thinks of them





where Jews torture muslims





Show me a picture of a Jew dressed up as a Human bomb!





Show me some jewish Educational resources (books videos ) endorsing
bombing muslims





Show me Jewish TV shows endorsing Bombing muslims











The Little sheppard boy is an Oppressor of the GIANT - Ludicrous on
it's face!





Ya Know that ruddy faced sheppard boy does look a little intimidating!
LOL











http://jihadwatch.org/archives/010470.php





Suicide bombing endorsed in kids book recommended by Canadian libraries











http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1120847/posts





The body of a police special forces officer who died when Islamic
terrorists blew themselves up in Madrid
was taken from its grave, mutilated and burnt yesterday.






In
addition to supporting WMD thru CPP funds, do you also endorse these Suicide
Bomb books in CANADIAN Libraries???











Are these Jewish BOYS

















Then again Who is oppressing who?





They oppress their own people!



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4601244/

Turning a blind eye to child suicide bombers - Where's the
outrage over the Palestinians' mistreatment of children?



ARE YOU BLIND IN ONE EYE? Slingshot MISHAP?












Lance Muir
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:





Even at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on some

occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!


- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: 
Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 
2006-Not All Authority is Bad


 But Israel
oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) iz

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
 Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

 Lance says Israel,
many times oppressed and, often by believers, has
 adopted the role of oppressor.

 ROTFL
 That is Ludicrous on the face of it.
 Where did you pick this whopper up?

 Perhaps you need a Geography lesson!
 http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html
 Israel in RED , is a
democratic nation 1/19th the size of California,
 SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her
 size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil. How dare Arab
 propagandists call Israel
expansionist! And how dare anyone believe
 them! How can Israel,
which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the
 lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of
 22 Arab countries? How can the 13 million Jews in the world (almost 5
 million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of
 the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to 1.4 billion Muslims
 worldwide?

 I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too
 Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of
 David before he meets Goliath!
 LOL



 --- Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

 Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd
 'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly,
 Israel,
many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the
 role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER.
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11
 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin:
 Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad


 There is little point in talking with someone who knows me better
 than I know me. Such arrogant surmising is the product of the kind
 of narrowness that I disregard.

 jd

 -- Original message -- 
 From: ShieldsFamily 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 Jd, I never said the Jews will be restored Outside of the church;
 they will be become believers. You say you don't dislike Jews more
 than any other unbelievers. It is obvious to me that you do. Your
 stereotypes and slurs are very revealing. Izzy



 Romans 11
 Israel

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

What would anyone learn from all the tomes you've suggested over the years,
Lance??? iz

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:18 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

No, I've not but, what would I learn were I to do so, David?

- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006 10:50
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

 Lance wrote:
 One's time would be better spent reading
 some noteworthy novelists than noteworthy
 creationists. Lift up Jesus and, creationISM,
 will fall away as it should.

 I can't say that I agree with you here.  Have you read Creation's Tiny
 Mystery, by Robert Gentry?

 David Miller

 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
 know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
 http://www.InnGlory.org

 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
 friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

RE: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

Yes, it's always the fault of the communicator (whenever attempting to
communicate with you-know-who.) iz

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:30 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

It just might be the case that YOU are not as good a communicater as YOU 
believe yourself to be, David. Ah well, David, soon a long rest from TT and,

onto things more important!
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006 13:08
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

 Lance wrote:
 As to mantras David, yours 'I have only
 the truth and, all of the truth all of the time
 is neither borne out by Scripture nor reality.

 This is not my mantra.  We have a communication problem here.  I do not
 believe that I have only the truth or all of the truth all of the time.  I
 don't believe that is true about anybody.

 David Miller
 Too tired with being misunderstood to continue...

 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
 know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
 http://www.InnGlory.org

 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
 friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism









But its so much easier to sit on
ones tuffet and criticize the work of others. iz











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006
1:25 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism







Let me get this straight JD.





By Rad Fundies you are talking about
people who believe Genesis as it is





written - Right??











PS What is wrong with the Carroll Dean's
and the Pat Robertsons of this





world? You may have to eat those words
one day because both are busy





about what they believe God has called
them to do and who are you to





denigrate another man's servant. O thou
Romans 14 theological expert...











On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:18:00 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







It is a shame we will not be able to finish this thread, I
suppose, but I must say something here -- the
conflict (speaking for myself) is not between science and
religion. It is between religion and fundamentalism (radical
fundamentalism, if you will.) Knowing that the first step will not
be last step for Rad Fundies, I prefer to deal with the situation outside
the school setting. The church has done an excellent job in
this regard with the High School population -- but it has forsaken
the University campus' without a fight. Truth will win out if
compared to that which has no bearings. The failure, here, is
with the church and its seeming inability to continue with the college age
population. It -- religion - simply does not need to be
in collegiate curriculum to win the fight for the hearts and minds of the
college age student. 











The church has done a shameful job with the older student, just as it
does with the unwanted-infant population. If the church could
place 1.4 million newborns each year -- abortion would be
EASILY defeated. But , as long as we think that after
birth,it is all up to the infant, well, the battle will rage.












In short -- the fundies (and not they alone) do not
want the kind of involvement that would make victory in either venue almost
undeniable. I do not want the Carroll Dean's and Pat Robertsons of this
world running anything of an evangelistic nature.











jd





















































-- Original message -- 
From: David Miller
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

 Lance wrote: 
  If Williams is a 'liberal loonie' then 
  you are a 'sectarian loonie' , David. 
 
 I'm sectarian only in the sense that the holy and the profane ought to be 
 separate. I am not sectarian within the group of those who have submitted 
 unto Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. 
 
 Lance wrote: 
  He is a brother in Christ who believes 
  differently than you on some matters. 
  Now, if that makes him what you say 
  then, that makes you what I say. 
 
 He is not a liberal loony for believing differently from me. The moniker 
 was offered because of his statement about how acknowledgement of our 
 Creator did not belong in schools. He made an irrational statement, 
 assuming tha t CNN reported him accurately. If he is a brother in Christ, 
 then I expect to hear a retraction or clarification made soon as other 
 believers correct him. If he is not a brother in Christ, then he will 
 continue to support the working of iniquity that seeks to remove the 
 acknowledgment of God our Creator from the schools. What he said was very 
 damaging to our society, to believers who want to acknowledge God the 
 Creator in their study of origins. To think that science and the 
 acknowledgement of God are incompatible is expected from scientists but
not 
 from theologians, and certainly not from the Right Reverend Doctor Rowland

 Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury. 
 
 David Miller 
 
 -- 
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you
may know how 
 you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org 
 
 If you do not want to receive posts from this lis t, send an email to 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and
you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend 
 who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
and 
 he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism




Operative _expression_ 'what they believe God has 
called them to do'?

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 22, 2006 14:24
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on 
  Creationism
  
  Let me get this straight JD.
  By Rad Fundies you are talking about people who 
  believe Genesis as it is
  written - Right??
  
  PS What is wrong with the Carroll Dean's and the Pat 
  Robertsons of this
  world? You may have to eat those words one day 
  because both are busy
  about what they believe God has called them to do and 
  who are you to
  denigrate another man's servant. O thou Romans 14 
  theological expert...
  
  On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:18:00 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  
It is a shame we will not be able to finish this thread, I 
suppose, but I must say something here -- the 
conflict (speaking for myself) is not between science and 
religion. It is between religion and fundamentalism 
(radical fundamentalism, if you will.) Knowing that the first 
step will not be last step for Rad Fundies, I prefer to deal with the 
situation outside the school setting. The church has done 
an excellent job in this regard with the High School population 
-- but it has forsaken the University campus' without a 
fight. Truth will win out if compared to that which has no 
bearings. The failure, here, is with the church and its 
seeming inability to continue with the college age population. 
It -- religion - simply does not need to be in collegiate 
curriculum to win the fight for the hearts and minds of the college age 
student. 

The church has done a shameful job with the older student, just as it 
does with the unwanted-infant population. If the church 
could place 1.4 million newborns each year -- abortion 
would be EASILY defeated. But , as long as we think that 
after birth,it is all up to the infant, well, the battle will 
rage. 

In short -- the fundies (and not they alone) do not 
want the kind of involvement that would make victory in either venue almost 
undeniable. I do not want the Carroll Dean's and Pat Robertsons of 
this world running anything of an evangelistic nature.

jd








-- 
  Original message -- From: "David Miller" 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Lance wrote:   If 
  Williams is a 'liberal loonie' then   you are a 'sectarian 
  loonie' , David.   I'm sectarian only in the sense that 
  the holy and the profane ought to be  separate. I am not sectarian 
  within the group of those who have submitted  unto Jesus Christ as 
  their Lord and Savior.   Lance wrote:   He is 
  a brother in Christ who believes   differently than you on 
  some matters.   Now, if that makes him what you say  
   then, that makes you what I say.   He is not a 
  liberal loony for believing differently from me. The moniker  was 
  offered because of his statement about how acknowledgement of our  
  Creator did not belong in schools. He made an irrational statement, 
   assuming tha t CNN reported him accurately. If he is a brother in 
  Christ,  then I expect to hear a retraction or clarification made 
  soon as other  believers correct him. If he is not a brother in 
  Christ, then he will  continue to support the working of iniquity 
  that seeks to remove the  acknowledgment of God our Creator from 
  the schools. What he said was very  damaging to our society, to 
  believers who want to acknowledge God the  Creator in their study 
  of origins. To think that science and the  acknowledgement of God 
  are incompatible is expected from scientists but not  from 
  theologians, and certainly not from the Right Reverend Doctor Rowland 
   Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury.   David 
  Miller   --  "Let your speech be always 
  with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how  you ought 
  to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org  
   If you do not want to receive posts from this lis t, send an 
  email to  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be 
  unsubscribed. If you have a friend  who wants to join, tell him to 
  send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and  he will be 
  subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

I watched whilst the two of you shot down the best
of the 'layer-outers'. Close mindedness is the operative _expression_. Sad, sad,
sad!

- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: March 22, 2006 14:15
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in
Genesis literal or figurative?

Your observations are delusions Lance; I have learned
much during my time on TT
Just because you have no insight does not negate the
reality. Nor does it let you off
the hook. If you have all of this insight that
DavidM and myself lack then it is your
responsibility to lay it out.
judyt

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:39:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

Judy:Short of intervention by the Spirit of
God, I deem it IMPOSSIBLE for you to be shown
anything on TT by anyone. I've observed this
over my entire stint on TT. Of course you'll disagree with this.

From: Judy Taylor

If this were so Lance it would behoove you who
are in the "know" to lay it
out clearly and succinctly so that we might be
corrected. So far I have not
seen anything but tongue in cheek comments that
are often snide along with
Personal shots and put
downs. So what is your problem??

From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent:
Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:57 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day
in Genesis literal or figurative?

David:My interpretation of what you just said:

'Lance:Judy and I see this matter as it should be seen. We've tried
so hardto get you to come around to see things our (God's) way. You do
not see themour (God's) way so, you do not see at all!

Of course, David, I'm aware of the distinction you two make! I'm
'thick'but, not that 'thick".SOMETIMES and only SOMETIMES the two of
you apprehendTHE TEACHING OF SCRIPTURE. SOMETIMES and only SOMETIMES
that which is spokenof as being 'orthodox' and the teaching of
Scripture overlap.

The two of you, David. often MISAPPREHEND the actual teaching of
Scripture!!This is sometimes why the two of you are wrong vis a vis
both Scripture'steaching and orthodoxy. The two of you, on some
occasions, are presumptuousto the nth degree!!

- Original Message - From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent:
March 22, 2006 08:43Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis
literal or figurative?

Lance, you have never been able to distinguish between Orthodoxy
and the teaching of Scripture. Judy has been trying so hard
to get you to see it. Martin Luther, if he was here, would be
trying so hard to get you to see it. You just don't get
it. Orthodoxy and the teaching of Scripture is not the same
thing. We repent if we walk contrary to Scripture. We do
not necessarily repent if we depart from Orthodoxy, nor do we call
upon others to repent if they depart from Orthodoxy. The
standard of Orthodoxy and the standard of the Bible are
two different things. Why can't you see that? David
Miller - Original Message - From:
"Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:34 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?
David:'PROVEN'? 'ERROR' In the light of 'orthodox' thought concerning
the Triune nature of God David, it is an heresy. It'd appear to be
an heresy that is a part of YOUR BELIEVE CONCERNING THE TRIUNE
NATURE OF GOD but, that does not change what it is in this
context. - Original Message - From:
"David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 21, 2006 13:14 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in
Genesis literal or figurative? Excuse me,
John, but nobody has proven that modalism is an error, so how
can you use the word repent in regards to this? Do you
really think it is a sin for someone to think
modalism is useful in understanding the Godhead?
David Miller - Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:56 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? In
short, Modalism !!
Modalism The error that there is only
one person in the Godhead who manifests himself in three forms
or manners: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. REPENT
-- HURRY !! jd
-- Original message -- From: Judy
Taylor

Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

You're soo deep, Iz.
- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006 14:22
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Baloney.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:04 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Even at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on some
occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!

- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

But Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) iz

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has
adopted the role of oppressor.

ROTFL
That is Ludicrous on the face of it.
Where did you pick this whopper up?

Perhaps you need a Geography lesson!
http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html
Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California,
SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her
size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil.  How dare Arab
propagandists call Israel expansionist! And how dare anyone believe
them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the
lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of
22 Arab countries? How can the  13 million Jews in the world (almost 5
million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of
the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to  1.4 billion Muslims
worldwide?

I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too
Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of
David before he meets Goliath!
LOL

--- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd
'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly,
Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the
role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER.
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin:
Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

  There is little point in talking with someone who knows me better
than I know me.   Such arrogant surmising is the product of the kind
of narrowness that I disregard.

  jd

-- Original message -- 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Jd, I never said the Jews will be restored Outside of the church;
they will be become believers.  You say you don't dislike Jews more
than any other unbelievers.  It is obvious to me that you do.  Your
stereotypes and slurs are very revealing.  Izzy

Romans 11
Israel Is Not Cast Away
 1I say then, God has not (A)rejected His people, has He? (B)May
it never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham,
of the tribe of Benjamin.

 2God (D)has not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew (F)Or do
you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how
he pleads with God against Israel?

 3Lord, (G)THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN
YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE.

 4But what is the divine response to him? (H)I HAVE KEPT for
Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL.

 5In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present
time (I)a remnant according to God's gracious choice.

 6But (J)if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of
works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

 7What then? What (K)Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but
those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were (L)hardened;

 8just as it is written,
 (M)GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR,
 EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT,
 DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY.

 9And David says,
 (N)LET THEIR TABLE BECOME A SNARE AND A TRAP,
 AND A STUMBLING BLOCK AND A RETRIBUTION TO THEM.
10(O)LET THEIR EYES BE DARKENED TO SEE NOT,
 AND BEND THEIR BACKS FOREVER.

 11(P)I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they?
(Q)May it never be! But by their transgression (R)salvation has come
to the Gentiles, to (S)make them jealous.

 12Now if their transgression is

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

About as much as your husband's patients have learned from his care, Iz.

- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006 14:44
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

What would anyone learn from all the tomes you've suggested over the 
years,

Lance??? iz

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:18 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

No, I've not but, what would I learn were I to do so, David?

- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006 10:50
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

Lance wrote:

One's time would be better spent reading
some noteworthy novelists than noteworthy
creationists. Lift up Jesus and, creationISM,
will fall away as it should.

I can't say that I agree with you here.  Have you read Creation's Tiny
Mystery, by Robert Gentry?

David Miller

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

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--
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know

how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

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--
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http://www.InnGlory.org

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ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

Iz:You slipped! David agreed with this 'hair-splitting' as you call it. Do 
you wish to apologize to your mentor?
- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006 14:21
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

Only in your hair-splitting mentality. iz

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:03 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

Iz:Fundamental Christianity is that which John believes. FundamentalISM
ought not be believed by anyone.

- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 21, 2006 21:48
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

If fundamental Christianity is a problem for you, of what spirit are you?
iz

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:15 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

DM says In case you did not notice, the fundamentalists are not causing
the acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden in schools.  It is
the liberal loonies like this Archbishop of Canterbury who are doing
this.

Some around here are concerned that there are FUNDIES lurking around
every keyboard on TT.
Perhaps these previous comments are a incantation meant to flush them
out into the open.
One can never be to prepared to protect oneself from fundaMENTALism!

--- David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

John wrote:
 The world in which we live would reject
 any mention of God in the evolutionary process,
 IMO.   But  creationism in the schools?   Could
 that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical
 fundamentalist take-over of the culture?

ROTFLOL.  I sure hope you were being facetious on purpose.

John wrote:
 But to allow a mere  statement that suggests God
 is somehow in control as the Creator(?)   If this
 could be presented into the secular system of
 education without it being coopted by the fundies
 --  go for it.   But I doubt that it can.  What a shame
 that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom forces
 the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful opportunity
 to introduce the Creator to others.

In case you did not notice, the fundamentalists are not causing the
acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden in schools.  It is the
liberal loonies like this Archbishop of Canterbury who are doing
this.

David Miller

__
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--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

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--
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know

how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
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http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
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Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

I do know this Iz, that my friends and I have puzzled more over David than 
anyone on TT over the years. We don't know if he WON'T or CAN'T see.(I opt 
for won't.)
- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006 14:46
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

Yes, it's always the fault of the communicator (whenever attempting to
communicate with you-know-who.) iz

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:30 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

It just might be the case that YOU are not as good a communicater as YOU
believe yourself to be, David. Ah well, David, soon a long rest from TT 
and,

onto things more important!
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006 13:08
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

Lance wrote:

As to mantras David, yours 'I have only
the truth and, all of the truth all of the time
is neither borne out by Scripture nor reality.

This is not my mantra.  We have a communication problem here.  I do not
believe that I have only the truth or all of the truth all of the time. 
I

don't believe that is true about anybody.

David Miller
Too tired with being misunderstood to continue...

--
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know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

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--
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know

how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

I will give it a read, David.

- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006 13:44
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

David Miller wrote:

Have you read Creation's Tiny
Mystery, by Robert Gentry?

Lance wrote:

No, I've not but, what would I learn
were I to do so, David?

I'm glad you asked.

There are several things you would learn:

1.  You would learn about the evidence for polonium halos indicating that
the basement rocks of the earth were created rapidly, in minutes, rather
than cooling over a million years.

2.  You would see a clear example of how science operates by constructing
hypotheses and testing those hypotheses, falsifying each one.

3.  You would learn about the bigotry in science against publishing 
articles

that suggest a creationist model of origins.

4.  You would learn a little about how a court room judge relied upon 
expert

testimony to the exclusion of examining scientific evidence.

The book is an easy read, and it breaks down the science into very simple
concepts.  It is well worth the read by anyone interested in the creation
versus evolution controversy.

David Miller

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
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ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy? WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM -- HUH ???

-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]

So?
There isn't a single fiew of the whole church that is agreed upon
by the whole church either. What does that prove? judyt

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do. I know this --
there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed upon by the whole church.

-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]

John wrote:
The world in which we live would reject
any mention of God in the evolutionary process,
IMO. But creationism in the schools? Could
that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical
fundamentalist take-over of the culture?
ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being facetious on purpose.

John wrote:
But to allow a mere statement that suggests God
is somehow in control as the Creator(?) If this
could be presented into the secular system of
education without it being coopted by the fundies
-- go for it. But I doubt that it can. What a shame
that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom forces
the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful opportunity
to introduce the Creator to others.
In case you did not notice,the fundamentalists are notcausing the acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden inschools. It is the liberal loonies like thisArchbishop of Canterbury who are doing this.

David Miller

Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

From one book worm to another.I read a book a week, love reading, I guess I just read the WRONG books!I have a personallibrary room and a few collections.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  I'd answer IFF you'd read/watch (i.e. make use of) the data available. We both know that you (and David and, Judy and, Iz) would not.- Original Message - From: "Kevin Deegan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: March 21, 2006 17:05Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor. ROTFL That is Ludicrous on
 the face of it. Where did you pick this whopper up? Perhaps you need a Geography lesson! http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California, SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil. How dare Arab propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare anyone believe them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of 22 Arab countries? How can the 13 million Jews in the world (almost 5 million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to 1.4 billion Muslims worldwide? I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for
 disarmament of David before he meets Goliath! LOL --- Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd 'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly, Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad There is little point in talking with someone who knows me better than I know me. Such arrogant surmising is the product of the kind of narrowness that I disregard.
 jd -- Original message --  From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Jd, I never said the Jews will be restored Outside of the church; they will be become believers. You say you don't dislike Jews more than any other unbelievers. It is obvious to me that you do. Your stereotypes and slurs are very revealing. Izzy Romans 11 Israel Is Not Cast Away 1I say then, God has not (A)rejected His people, has He? (B)May it never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God (D)has not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew (F)Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel? 3"Lord, (G)THEY HAVE KILLED
 YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE." 4But what is the divine response to him? "(H)I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL." 5In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time (I)a remnant according to God's gracious choice. 6But (J)if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. 7What then? What (K)Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were (L)hardened; 8just as it is written, "(M)GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR, EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT, DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY." 9And David says, "(N)LET THEIR TABLE BECOME A
 SNARE AND A TRAP, AND A STUMBLING BLOCK AND A RETRIBUTION TO THEM. 10"(O)LET THEIR EYES BE DARKENED TO SEE NOT, AND BEND THEIR BACKS FOREVER." 11(P)I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? (Q)May it never be! But by their transgression (R)salvation has come to the Gentiles, to (S)make them jealous. 12Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their (T)fulfillment be! 13But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as (U)I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14if somehow I might (V)move to jealousy (W)my fellow countrymen and (X)save some of them. 15For if their rejection is the (Y)reconciliation of the world, what will their
 acceptance be but (Z)life from the dead? 16If the (AA)first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and if the root is holy, the branches are too. 17But if some of the (AB)branches were broken off, and (AC)you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, 18do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that (AD)it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19(AE)You will

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy? WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GOES INTO THE SCHOOL CURRICULUM -- HUH ??!! Be sure to answer with "the right one, John -- duh !!" or will that be Linda's piece of intellectual contribuation for the day?

-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]

So?
There isn't a single fiew of the whole church that is agreed upon
by the whole church either. What does that prove? judyt

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do. I know this --
there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed upon by the whole church.

-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]

David Miller

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

Paul opposed the intolerant legalists in the church and so will I while, at the same time, writing the words of Romans 14. He is one of my mentors -- I will do the same.

A Rad Fundy is not defined by the words she reads but by the froth of mouth as she "evangelizes" the lost.

If the shoe don't fit, don't wear it.

-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Let me get this straight JD.
By Rad Fundies you are talking about people who believe Genesis as it is
written - Right??

PS What is wrong with the Carroll Dean's and the Pat Robertsons of this
world? You may have to eat those words one day because both are busy
about what they believe God has called them to do and who are you to
denigrate another man's servant. O thou Romans 14 theological expert...

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:18:00 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lance wrote: If Williams is a 'liberal loonie' then you are a 'sectarian loonie' , David. I'm sectarian only in the sense that the holy and the profane ought to be separate. I am not sectarian within the group of those who have submitted unto Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. Lance wrote: He is a brother in Christ who believes differently than you on some matters. Now, if that makes him what you say then, that makes you what I say. He is not a liberal loony for believing differently from me. The moniker was offered because of his statement about how acknowledgement of our Creator did not belong in schools. He made an irrational statement, assuming tha
t CNN reported him accurately. If he is a brother in Christ, then I expect to hear a retraction or clarification made soon as other believers correct him. If he is not a brother in Christ, then he will continue to support the working of iniquity that seeks to remove the acknowledgment of God our Creator from the schools. What he said was very damaging to our society, to believers who want to acknowledge God the Creator in their study of origins. To think that science and the acknowledgement of God are incompatible is expected from scientists but not from theologians, and certainly not from the Right Reverend Doctor Rowland Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury. David Miller -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this li
s t, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Modalism the RESTORATION

No David, read the links that show He adopted the "Christian Church" Movement as far as the name of the church must have the name Christ as in CHRIST-ian Church. Elias Smith taught that years before Alexander Campbell or Joe! How old were they in 1803, when he founded the "Church of Christ" in Portsmouth? Joe never was very original and a majority of the followers of the CHRIST-ian Church movement became followers of Campbellism. THE CHRISTIAN CHURCHfounded 1803 proclaims:" The Lord Jesus Christ as the head of the church. Christian our only name." A number of them met at Sandborton, in the spring of 1802, and organized what they called "The Christian Conference." The membership was almost wholly of Baptist clergymen. Smith had written out a series of articles setting forth his belief, which were read at the meeting. In September of the
same year "The Christian Conference" met, at which time the articles were highly approved, and arrangements made for their publication. He says, "This was a bold and important step at this time, for by these [17] articles we condemned all others. The next step was to disown these, and hear Christ in all things." Elder Smith had, previous to this time, deliberately concluded to disown all names but the name Christian, and had taught that the name Christian was the only one for Christ's followers to wear. In the year 1802 he began his work in Portsmouth, N. H., where in 1803 he organized a "Church of Christ," owning Him as their only Master, Lord and Lawgiver, and agreeing to consider themselves Christian without the addition of any unscriptural namehttp://www.mun.ca/rels/restmov/texts/jburnett/eshm/ESHM.HTMDavid Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, the Restoration movement we have discussed in the past. It involves a lot more than David Millard. In fact, somebody posted an article by Alexander Campbell (one of the founders of the Church of Christ movement)that criticized Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. I'm sure DaveH remembers that discussion. It was all a very fascinating historical discussion. As you know, Joseph Smith adopted Campbell's label of Church of Christ originally.David Miller- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 7:52 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Modalism the RESTORATIONWhat is also interesting is they have roots in the Restoration movement. via David Millard (contemporary of Joe who lived Published 13 miles away.) Elias Smith see links below.David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is interesting, Kevin. The LDS believes in henotheism (a type of polytheism) and modalism at the same time? How can this be? DaveH, please let us know your thoughts about this.David Miller- Original Message - From: "Kevin Deegan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:18 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Modalism the RESTORATION[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In short, Modalism !!Sort of Like the RESTORATIONISTS of the pre "Church of Christ" -"CHRIST-ian church"?Sounds more like your HERITAGE!The guys who thaought, the only name for the TRUE church is to have thename of CHRIST thus the Christian
Church!http://www.mun.ca/rels/restmov/texts/jburnett/eshm/ESHM.HTMhttp://www.restorationquarterly.org/Volume_009/rq00903olbricht.htmhttp://www.acu.edu/sponsored/restoration_quarterly/archives/1960s/vol_9_no_3_contents/olbricht.htmlSome of these fellas Like David Millard, lived a scant 13 miles fromJoe Smith and thus the MODALISM in the BoM!"Book of Mormon theology is generally modalistic. In the Book ofMormon, God and Jesus Christ are not distinct beings." (New Approachesto the Book of Mormon, 1993, pages 82, 96-99, 103-104, 110)"Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world toredeem my people. Behold I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and theSon. In me shall all mankind have light... they shall become my sonsand my daughters." (Ether 3:14)http://www.xmission.com/~country/reason/gods_1.htm--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In short, Modalism !! Modalism The error
that there is only one person in the Godhead who manifests himself in three forms or manners: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. REPENT -- HURRY !! jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GOD IS ONE; JESUS SAID "I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE" More accurately, one person in three manifestations On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 06:27:25 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>writes: ONE GOD IN THREE PERSONS From: ShieldsFamily Unity in Diversity. Fatness in Skinniness. Ugliness in Beauty. Dumbness in Intelligence. Wisdom in Nonsense. Jibberish in Eloquence. iz If your idea were so JD then Jesus would have prayed "make them "unity in diversity" just as we are ... I see that nowhere in scripture. Jesus
said if someone had seen him they had seen the Father because he did only what he first saw the Father do and he said only what he first

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism


How busy are you , for the Lord, my dear southern plantation owner ?? Gave away any unwanted furniture lately? I would be careful with such criticism when one's duff is permanently shaped to her favority chair !!

jd

-- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 








But its so much easier to sit on ones tuffet and criticize the work of others. iz





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 1:25 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism


Let me get this straight JD.

By Rad Fundies you are talking about people who believe Genesis as it is

written - Right??



PS What is wrong with the Carroll Dean's and the Pat Robertsons of this

world? You may have to eat those words one day because both are busy

about what they believe God has called them to do and who are you to

denigrate another man's servant. O thou Romans 14 theological expert...



On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:18:00 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


It is a shame we will not be able to finish this thread, I suppose, but I must say something here -- the conflict (speaking for myself) is not between science and religion. It is between religion and fundamentalism (radical fundamentalism, if you will.) Knowing that the first step will not be last step for Rad Fundies, I prefer to deal with the situation outside the school setting. The church has done an excellent job in this regard with the High School population -- but it has forsaken the University campus' without a fight. Truth will win out if compared to that which has no bearings. The failure, here, is with the church and its seeming inability to continue with the college age population. It -- religion - simply does not need to be in collegiate curriculum to win the fight for the hearts an
d minds of the college age student. 



The church has done a shameful job with the older student, just as it does with the unwanted-infant population. If the church could place 1.4 million newborns each year -- abortion would be EASILY defeated. But , as long as we think that after birth,it is all up to the infant, well, the battle will rage. 



In short -- the fundies (and not they alone) do not want the kind of involvement that would make victory in either venue almost undeniable. I do not want the Carroll Dean's and Pat Robertsons of this world running anything of an evangelistic nature.



jd

















-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Lance wrote:   If Williams is a 'liberal loonie' then   you are a 'sectarian loonie' , David.   I'm sectarian only in the sense that the holy and the profane ought to be  separate. I am not sectarian within the group of those who have submitted  unto Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.   Lance wrote:   He is a brother in Christ who believes   differently than you on some matters.   Now, if that makes him what you say   then, that makes you what I say.   He is not a liberal loony for believing differently from me. The moniker  was offered because of his statement about how acknowledgement of our  Creator did not belong in schools. He made an irr
ational statement,  assuming tha t CNN reported him accurately. If he is a brother in Christ,  then I expect to hear a retraction or clarification made soon as other  believers correct him. If he is not a brother in Christ, then he will  continue to support the working of iniquity that seeks to remove the  acknowledgment of God our Creator from the schools. What he said was very  damaging to our society, to believers who want to acknowledge God the  Creator in their study of origins. To think that science and the  acknowledgement of God are incompatible is expected from scientists but not  from theologians, and certainly not from the Right Reverend Doctor Rowland  Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury.   David Miller   --  "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how  you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://
www.InnGlory.org   If you do not want to receive posts from this lis t, send an email to  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend  who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and  he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

DH just tell me what part ADAM had in the creation of the Earth Do all Mormons eventually get to create their own Earth? When they do will they be resurrected beings w/o blood like Adam? - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 21, 2006 21:41 Subject: Re:
[TruthTalk] Hell BoMDAVEH: Sometimes I just don't feel compelled to argue with you, Kevin.Don't want to "argue"? TRUTH is always able to withstand Public scrutiny! Maybe, you can call me names (like the other LDS quoted below much more available on request)orget a LDS BISHOP High Priest to find a very small SP to attack from the back. Because LDS "truth" is not able to withstand public scrutiny! "anti-Mormon" is a "thought-terminating cliché," in other words, Orwellian "NEWSPEAK". The purpose of which is to CUE LDS to get their minds off track to reduce any possibility that they may come into contact with NON faith promoting FACTS. The LABELING of
so-called "opponents" with a word, whose only purpose is to create a mental aversion, is the deliberate mechanism of the leadership to cue the membership to subconsciously censor their own thoughts! This tactic is employed by Authoritarian organizations which seek to CONTROL reduce the flow of information to their followers. The TRUTH is always ABLE to WITHSTAND public scutiny!Contention is of the Devil? Innoculates the LDS to censor discussion. Who ios getting ANGRY here? Look at the following Mormon APOLOGETIC: And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? http://www.mormonismi.info/jamesdavid/negative.htm RE: You Loser What exactly is your problem against the mormon church? You take the information you have in the wrong context. Get a life. RE: your stupid I have been investigating the mormon church for some time now. I know that all the false doctren is a lie. I have felt the spirit,I have a sure faith in the prophet Joseph Smith. Contention is of the devil. Therefore we cannot teach Christ's doctrine by contending one with another, nor can we be called by the name of Christ if we act as such. Christ himself taught that if a man smite thee on one cheek turn to him the other also. It saddens my heart to think of all time and effort spent trying to tear each others beliefs apart. If I think I know something to be true I will speak of my knowledge of the truth. I would not try to convert anyone to my beliefs by trying to destroy their beliefs. You do not punch
someone in the eye out of love. MAY GOD BLESS THE PEACEABLE FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST. But "James," the only things I want to eliminate are you from the newsgroup and the test tube you came in on. Get a life and leave the Church of Jesus Christ alone. It makes me sad to think of all the people you may have led away from the truth of the Gospel. P.S. Next time you talk to Satan tell him to go to .. and stay there. you need to get your facts straight. but it's a nice try!! who ya working for ? mankind? ya right! Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why all the name calling from LDS is this CONTENTION?http://www.mormonismi.info/jamesdavid/negative.htm--- Dave Hansen
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: _*After all ANTI's are Stupid Losers and do not really undestand, just can't get the facts straight!*_ DAVEH: Sometimes I just don't feel compelled to argue with you, Kevin. Kevin Deegan wrote: *CONTENTION is of the Devil* 3 Ne 11 And according as I have commanded you thus shall ye baptize. And there shall be no disputations among you, as there have hitherto been; neither shall there be disputations among you concerning the points of my doctrine, as there have hitherto been. For verily, verily I say unto you, he that hath the *spirit of **contention* * is not of me, but is of the **devil* , who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another.Perhaps this helps with keeping the members in line too after all when the leaders speak the th inking has been done.The Holy Bible on the other hand says: *1 Thessalonians 5:21 clearly commands to /"prove all things."/* The scriptures tell us to *CONTEND for the faith ONCE delivered* /*"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they _will_ not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be
turned unto fables.*/Paul was so despised by some that he was lashed on 5 occasions, beaten w/ rods three times, and was nearly stoned to death*The real qu estion is just who it is really getting angry.* *Galatians 4:16 /"Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?"/* _*After all ANTI's are Stupid Losers and do not really

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

One can find strains of FundamentalISM in the strangest places!Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Iz:Fundamental Christianity is that which John believes. FundamentalISM ought not be believed by anyone.- Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: March 21, 2006 21:48Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism If fundamental Christianity is a problem for you, of what spirit are you? iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:15 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism DM says
In case you did not notice, the fundamentalists are not causing the acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden in schools. It is the liberal loonies like this Archbishop of Canterbury who are doing this. Some around here are concerned that there are "FUNDIES" lurking around every keyboard on TT. Perhaps these previous comments are a incantation meant to flush them out into the open. One can never be to prepared to protect oneself from fundaMENTALism! --- David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: John wrote: The world in which we live would reject any mention of God in the evolutionary process, IMO. But creationism in the schools? Could that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical fundamentalist take-over of the culture? ROTFLOL. I sure hope you were being
facetious on purpose. John wrote: But to allow a mere statement that suggests God is somehow in control as the Creator(?) If this could be presented into the secular system of education without it being coopted by the fundies -- go for it. But I doubt that it can. What a shame that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom forces the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful opportunity to introduce the Creator to others. In case you did not notice, the fundamentalists are not causing the acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden in schools. It is the liberal loonies like this Archbishop of Canterbury who are doing this. David Miller __ Do You
Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
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Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

Likewise, here. It will go onto the shelf next to my "Little Black Box" or something like that.

-- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] I will give it a read, David.- Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: March 22, 2006 13:44 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David Miller wrote: Have you read Creation's Tiny Mystery, by Robert Gentry? Lance wrote: No, I've not but, what would I learn were I to do so, David? I'm glad you asked. There are several things you would learn: 1. You would learn about the evidence for polonium halos indicating that the basement rocks of the earth were created r
apidly, in minutes, rather than cooling over a million years. 2. You would see a clear example of how science operates by constructing hypotheses and testing those hypotheses, falsifying each one. 3. You would learn about the bigotry in science against publishing articles that suggest a creationist model of origins. 4. You would learn a little about how a court room judge relied upon expert testimony to the exclusion of examining scientific evidence. The book is an easy read, and it breaks down the science into very simple concepts. It is well worth the read by anyone interested in the creation versus evolution controversy. David Miller -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how yo
u ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad


What's you oldest "Batman and Robin" edition?

jd

-- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
From one book worm to another.

I read a book a week, love reading, I guess I just read the WRONG books!

I have a personallibrary room and a few collections.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'd answer IFF you'd read/watch (i.e. make use of) the data available. We both know that you (and David and, Judy and, Iz) would not.- Original Message - From: "Kevin Deegan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: March 21, 2006 17:05Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor. ROTFL That is Ludicrous on the face of it. Where did you pick this whopper up? Perhaps you need a Geography lesson! http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California, SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her size, 60 TIMES her population and AL
L the oil. How dare Arab propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare anyone believe them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of 22 Arab countries? How can the 13 million Jews in the world (almost 5 million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to 1.4 billion Muslims worldwide? I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of David before he meets Goliath! LOL --- Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd 'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly, Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of oppr
essor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad There is little point in talking with someone who knows me better than I know me. Such arrogant surmising is the product of the kind of narrowness that I disregard. jd -- Original message --  From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Jd, I never said the Jews will be restored Outside of the church; they will be become believers. You say you don't dislike Jews more than any other unbelievers. It is obvious to me that you do. Your stereotypes and slurs are very revealing. Izzy Romans 11 Israel Is Not Cast Away 1I say then, God has not (A)rejected His people, has He? (B)May it never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God (D)has not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew (F)Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel? 3"Lord, (G)THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE." 4But what is the divine response to him? "(H)I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL." 5In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time (I)a remnant according to God's gracious choice. 6But (J)if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works
, otherwise grace is no longer grace. 7What then? What (K)Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were (L)hardened; 8just as it is written, "(M)GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR, EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT, DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY." 9And David says, "(N)LET THEIR TABLE BECOME A SNARE AND A TRAP, AND A STUMBLING BLOCK AND A RETRIBUTION TO THEM. 10"(O)LET THEIR EYES BE DARKENED TO SEE NOT, AND BEND THEIR BACKS FOREVER." 11(P)I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? (Q)May it never be! But by their transgression (R)salvation has come to the Gentiles, to (S)make them jealous. 12Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their (T)f
ulfillment be! 13But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as (U)I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14if somehow I might (V)move to jealousy (W)my fellow countrymen and (X)save some of them. 15For if their rejection is the (Y)reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but (Z)life from the dead? 16If the (AA)first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and if the root is holy, the branches are too. 17But if some of the (AB)branches were broken off, and (AC)you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, 18do not be arrogant toward the

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism




Well what are you about Lance Muir
Are you doing what God has called someone else to 
do?
Are you criticizing what you think someone else is 
doing that God didn't tell them to do?
Are you hearing God as to what he wants you to 
do?
How do you know you are hearing God since noone can 
know truth according to you?

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:06:05 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Operative _expression_ 'what they believe God has 
  called them to do'?
  
From: Judy Taylor 

Let me get this straight JD.
By Rad Fundies you are talking about people who 
believe Genesis as it is
written - Right??

PS What is wrong with the Carroll Dean's and the 
Pat Robertsons of this
world? You may have to eat those words one day 
because both are busy
about what they believe God has called them to do 
and who are you to
denigrate another man's servant. O thou Romans 14 
theological expert...

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:18:00 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  It is a shame we will not be able to finish this thread, I 
  suppose, but I must say something here -- 
  the conflict (speaking for myself) is not between science and 
  religion. It is between religion and fundamentalism 
  (radical fundamentalism, if you will.) Knowing that the first 
  step will not be last step for Rad Fundies, I prefer to deal with 
  the situation outside the school setting. The church has 
  done an excellent job in this regard with the High School population 
  -- but it has forsaken the University campus' without a 
  fight. Truth will win out if compared to that which has no 
  bearings. The failure, here, is with the church and its 
  seeming inability to continue with the college age population. 
  It -- religion - simply does not need to be in collegiate 
  curriculum to win the fight for the hearts and minds of the college age 
  student. 
  
  The church has done a shameful job with the older student, just as it 
  does with the unwanted-infant population. If the church 
  could place 1.4 million newborns each year -- abortion 
  would be EASILY defeated. But , as long as we think that 
  after birth,it is all up to the infant, well, the battle will 
  rage. 
  
  In short -- the fundies (and not they alone) do not 
  want the kind of involvement that would make victory in either venue 
  almost undeniable. I do not want the Carroll Dean's and Pat 
  Robertsons of this world running anything of an evangelistic nature.
  
  jd
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  -- 
Original message -- From: "David Miller" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Lance wrote:   If 
Williams is a 'liberal loonie' then   you are a 'sectarian 
loonie' , David.   I'm sectarian only in the sense that 
the holy and the profane ought to be  separate. I am not 
sectarian within the group of those who have submitted  unto 
Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.   Lance wrote: 
  He is a brother in Christ who believes   
differently than you on some matters.   Now, if that makes 
him what you say   then, that makes you what I say.  
 He is not a liberal loony for believing differently from me. 
The moniker  was offered because of his statement about how 
acknowledgement of our  Creator did not belong in schools. He 
made an irrational statement,  assuming tha t CNN reported him 
accurately. If he is a brother in Christ,  then I expect to hear 
a retraction or clarification made soon as other  believers 
correct him. If he is not a brother in Christ, then he will  
continue to support the working of iniquity that seeks to remove the 
 acknowledgment of God our Creator from the schools. What he 
said was very  damaging to our society, to believers who want to 
acknowledge God the  Creator in their study of origins. To think 
that science and the  acknowledgement of God are incompatible is 
expected from scientists but not  from theologians, and 
certainly not from the Right Reverend Doctor Rowland  Williams, 
Archbishop of Canterbury.   David Miller  
 --  "Let your speech be always with grace, 
seasoned with salt, that you may know how  you ought to answer 
every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org   
If you do not want to receive posts from this lis t, send an email to 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If 
you have a friend  who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail 
to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and  he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad






I think she adjusts and adapts to theperceived 
depth of those she is addressing Lance


On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:12:35 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes: You're soo deep, Iz.\ From: "ShieldsFamily" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Baloney.
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
On Behalf Of Lance  Even at this late date such a response is 
unworthy of you. Israel,  on some  occasions (see it's 
Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!- 
Original Message -   From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
 Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special 
Message from Rabbi Daniel  Lapin: Purim  2006-Not All 
Authority is BadBut Israel oppresses 
its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!)  iz  
 -Original Message-  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
On Behalf Of Kevin  Deegan  Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 
2006 4:06 PM  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel  
Lapin: Purim  2006-Not All Authority is Bad 
  Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by 
believers,  has  adopted the role of oppressor. 
  ROTFL  That is Ludicrous on the face 
of it.  Where did you pick this whopper up? 
  Perhaps you need a Geography lesson!  
http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html 
 Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of  
California,  SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships 
with 640  TIMES her  size, 60 TIMES her population and 
ALL the oil. How dare Arab  propagandists call Israel 
"expansionist!" And how dare anyone  believe  them! How 
can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of  the 
 lands called Arab, be responsible for the political  
dissatisfaction of  22 Arab countries? How can the 13 
million Jews in the world  (almost 5  million fewer than 
they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems  of  the 
300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to 1.4 billion  
Muslims  worldwide?   I guess 
DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too  Israel Oppressing the Arabs 
is like the UN call for disarmament  of  David before he 
meets Goliath!  LOL   
  --- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
  Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John 
has gone on  the odd  'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN 
IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC!  Sadly,  Israel, many 
times oppressed and, often by believers, has  adopted the 
 role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER. 
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
 Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11 
 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi 
Daniel  Lapin:  Purim 2006-Not All Authority is 
Bad
There is little point in talking with someone who knows me  
better  than I know me. Such arrogant surmising 
is the product of the  kind  of narrowness that I 
disregard.   jd 
  -- 
Original message --   
From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Jd, I never said the 
Jews will be restored Outside of the  church;  they 
will be become believers. You say you don't dislike Jews  
more  than any other unbelievers. It is obvious to me 
that you do.  Your  stereotypes and slurs are 
very revealing. Izzy   
  Romans 11 
 Israel Is Not Cast Away 
 1I say then, God has not (A)rejected 
His people, has He?  (B)May  it never be! For (C)I 
too am an Israelite, a descendant of  Abraham,  of 
the tribe of Benjamin.  
 2God (D)has not rejected His people 
whom He (E)foreknew  (F)Or do  you not know what the 
Scripture says in the passage about  Elijah, how  he 
pleads with God against Israel?  
 3"Lord, (G)THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR 
PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN  DOWN  YOUR ALTARS, AND I 
ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY  LIFE." 
  4But what is the 
divine response to him? "(H)I HAVE KEPT  for  Myself 
SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL." 
  5In the same way 
then, there has also come to be at the  present  
time (I)a remnant according to God's gracious choice. 
  6But (J)if it is 
by grace, it is no longer on the basis of  works, otherwise 
grace is no longer grace.  
 7What then? What (K)Israel is 
seeking, it has not obtained,  but  those who were 
chosen obtained it, and the rest were  (L)hardened; 
  8just as it is 
written, 
 
"(M)GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR, 
 
EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT, 
 
DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY."  
 9And David says, 
 
"(N)LET THEIR TABLE BECOME A SNARE AND A TRAP, 
 
AND A STUMBLING BLOCK AND A RETRIBUTION TO THEM. 
 10"(O)LET THEIR 
EYES BE DARKENED TO SEE NOT, 
 
AND BEND THEIR BACKS FOREVER."  
 11(P)I say then, they did not stumble 
so as to fall, did  they?  (Q)May it never be! But 
by their transgression (R)salvation has  come  to 
the Gentiles, to (S)make them jealous.  
 12Now if their transgression is 
riches for the world and  their  failure is riches 
for the Gentiles, how much more will their  (T)fulfillment 
be!   
13But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then  as 
 (U)I am an

Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad


Or maybe, just maybe, her adaptations have to do with what she eats.

jd

-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



I think she adjusts and adapts to theperceived depth of those she is addressing Lance


On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:12:35 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You're soo deep, Iz.\ From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Baloney.
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Lance  Even at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel,  on some  occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!- Original Message -   From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED]  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org  Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel  Lapin: Purim  2006-Not All Authority is BadBut Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!)  iz   -Original Message-  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
.org  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Kevin  Deegan  Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel  Lapin: Purim  2006-Not All Authority is Bad   Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers,  has  adopted the role of oppressor.   ROTFL  That is Ludicrous on the face of it.  Where did you pick this whopper up?   Perhaps you need a Geography lesson!  http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html  Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of  California,  SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640  TIMES her  size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil. How dare Arab  propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare anyone  believe  them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of  the  lands called Arab, be responsible for the political  dissatisfaction of  22 Arab countries? How can the 13 million Jews in the world  (almost 5  million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems  of  the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to 1.4 billion  Muslims  worldwide?   I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too  Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament  of  David before he meets Goliath!  LOL 
--- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:   Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on  the odd  'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC!  Sadly,  Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has  adopted the  role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER.  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org  Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel  Lapin:  Purim 2006-Not All Author
ity is BadThere is little point in talking with someone who knows me  better  than I know me. Such arrogant surmising is the product of the  kind  of narrowness that I disregard.   jd   -- Original message --   From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Jd, I never said the Jews will be restored Outside of the  church;  they will be become believers. You say you don't dislike Jews  more  than any other unbelievers. It is obvious to me that you do.  Your  stereotypes and slurs are very reveali
ng. Izzy Romans 11  Israel Is Not Cast Away  1I say then, God has not (A)rejected His people, has He?  (B)May  it never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of  Abraham,  of the tribe of Benjamin.   2God (D)has not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew  (F)Or do  you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about  Elijah, how  he pleads with God against Israel?   3"Lord, (G)THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN  DOWN  YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY  LIFE."  
t; 4But what is the divine response to him? "(H)I HAVE KEPT  for  Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL."   5In the same way then, there has also come to be at the  present  time (I)a remnant according to God's gracious choice.   6But (J)if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of  works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.   7What then? What (K)Israel is seeking, it has not obtained,  but  those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were  (L)hardened;   8just as it is written,  "(M)
GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR,  EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT,  DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY."   9And David says,  "(N)LET THEIR TABLE BECOME A SNARE AND A TRAP,  AND A STUMBLING BLOCK AND A RETRIBUTION TO THEM.  10"(O)LET THEIR EYES BE DARKENED TO SEE NOT,  AND BEND THEIR BACKS FOREVER."   11(P)I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, d
id  they?  (Q)May it never be! But by their transgression (R)salvation has  come  to the Gentiles, to (S)make them jealous.   12Now if their transgression is riches for the world and  their  failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their  (T)fulfillment be!   13But I am speaking to

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

A man may be Theologically Intelligent but Spiritually Ignorant and without personal morals. Then again maybe ignorant on both count RW on the Atonement"'Christians have always found it hard to say exactly how this works. Some speak of Jesus taking the punishment for sin in our place, some speak of him offering himself as a sacrifice. Some speak of him winning a victory over Satan and setting all of us who are prisoners free. It seems that there is no one way of saying this correctly.' Unitarian DRUID! http://www.thechristianexpositor.org/page120.html Archbishop - or Arch-heretic?Williams had been inducted into 'the Gorsedd of Bards', reported to be an historic order
of Druids with pagan roots. Williams apparently went through an hour-long ceremony at sunrise within a circle of standing stones like those at Stonehenge and the significance was variously reported, e.g.: 'The Gorsedd of Bards takes its name from the high seat, which was the mount on which the sacred kings were wedded to the female spirit of the land in ancient times.' http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1045967,00.html archbishop finds himself cast out by evangelicals Congress exposes Anglican leader's position as split over gays grows deeper BIRDS of a FEATHER FLOCK TOGETHER!Anglican Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams to John Paul II, 10/4/03: In 1966 Pope Paul VI gave Archbishop Michael Ramsey his own Episcopal ring, which has been treasured by his successors and which I wear today. I am glad to thank you for the personal gift of a pectoral cross, sent to me on the occasion of my enthronement earlier this year. As I took on my new ministry I appreciated deeply that sign of a shared task This is the seal of a VALID Bishop of ROME!http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/09/27/1032734282506.html Rowan Williams, the next archbishop of Canterbury, is to meet members of the Church of England's oldest evangelical body next week in an attempt to convince them that he is not a heretic over his views on homosexuality and the literal truth of some biblical stories Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rowan Williams should be embarassed for being a pretenderLance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You do KNOW, do you not David, that that's NOT the source of his embarrassment? Rowan Williams is not embarrassed concerning our Lord ANYWHERE. He, not unlike many, are embarrassed over believers turning non-issues into 'issues'. (i.e. creationISM)- Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: March 21, 2006 13:12Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Yup is right, but how does he get from this thought to the idea that creationism should not be considered in schools? I hate it when theologians are embarassed of giving glory to the Creator in school. David Miller - Original Message - From: Debbie Sawczak To: 'Lance Muir' Sent: March 21, 2006 12:15 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on
Creationism "And for most of the history of Christianity ... there's been an awareness that a belief that everything depends on the creative act of God is quite compatible with a degree of uncertainty or latitude about how precisely that unfolds in creative time." Yup. D From: Lance Muir [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 12:09 PM To: Debbie Sawczak Subject: Fw: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 21, 2006 12:06 Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism - Original Message - From: Hughes Jonathan To: Lance Muir Sent: March 21, 2006 10:45 Subject: Williams on
Creationism http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/03/21/britain.williams.ap/index.html Jonathan Hughes Supervisor of Application Support Kingsway Financial 905-629-7888 x. 2471 This e-mail and any attachments contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. Thank you for your cooperation in connection with the above. Ce courriel ainsi que tous les documents s'y rattachant contiennent de l'information confidentielle et privilégiée. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire visé, s.v.p. en informer immédiatement son
expéditeur par retour de courriel, effacer le message et détruire toute copie (électronique ou autre). Toute diffusion ou utilisation de cette information par une personne autre que le destinataire visé est interdite et peut être illégale. Merci de votre coopération relativement au message susmentionné. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.6/287 - Release Date: 3/21/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message.

Re: [TruthTalk] Henry Morris

I'm embarrassed of Henry Morris and that whole ICR group over there. What exactly are you embarrassed about?Henry Morris B.S., with honors in civil engineering, Rice University, Houston, TX, 1939 Hydraulic Engineering M.S., University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, MN, 1948 Ph.D., University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, MN, 1950 LL.D Litt.D Faculty member at Rice University (1942-46), University of Minnesota (1946-51), University of Southwestern Louisiana (1951-56) and Southern Illinois University (1956-57) Former head of the Department of Civil Engineering at the Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University (1957-1970) Author of over 45 books regarding Creation-Evolution David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David Miller wrote: I hate it when theologians are embarrassed of giving glory to the Creator in school.Lance wrote: You do KNOW, do you not David, that that's NOT the source of his embarrassment? Rowan Williams is not embarrassed concerning our Lord ANYWHERE. He, not unlike many, are embarrassed over believers turning non-issues into 'issues'. (i.e. creationISM)There is more to this issue that this. Is he embarrassed of certain brands of creationism? Of course. I am too. I'm embarrassed of Henry Morris and that whole ICR group over there. At the same time, they serve a purpose in what they do, and we should not revolt to them so much that we accept the atheistic and scientific agenda of removing all references to the Creator from our public schools.You say it is a NON-ISSUE? I consider such a
statement ignorant in the extreme. Deceptive to the core. There is one thing that the ICR group has illustrated, and that is that this is an issue.I talked with a student a few months ago, John Boyles, just before he was elected to be President of Student Government at the University of Florida. I talked with him about the persecution my daughter is undergoing at UF just because she believes the Bible that homosexual behavior is sinful. He confided to me that he applied for a Rhodes scholarship to study theology at Oxford. He was turned down because he argued in his oral examination / interview that the idea of Intelligent Design should be considered in the classroom. If this was a non-issue, these professors of theology would have tolerated his creationist convictions. I wish I could convey to you the grief this man carried over his own religious persecution by those who would not have him study theology because he believed
intelligent design theories should be considered in school.I truly believe that these modern theologians assume that scientists are well studied in origins and are deeply convicted about the truth of evolutionary processes and the absurdity of the teaching of Genesis. When the truth comes out, they will be the ones who will be greatly embarrassed in the day of our Lord. The philosopher Thomas Khun was right in how he depicted the way science really operates. These theologians who object to Creationist models of origins should pay attention to him just a little bit more.David Miller--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to
send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

There is something funny about a man that thinks he has such a direct line with God that he is able to discern God's will for another man!Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well what are you about Lance Muir Are you doing what God has called someone else to do? Are you criticizing what you think someone else is doing that God didn't tell them to do? Are you hearing God as to what he wants you to do? How do you know you are hearing God since noone can know truth according to you?On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:06:05 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Operative _expression_ 'what they believe God has called them to do'?From: Judy Taylor Let me get this straight JD. By Rad Fundies you are talking about people who believe Genesis as it is written - Right??PS What is wrong with the Carroll Dean's and the Pat Robertsons of
this world? You may have to eat those words one day because both are busy about what they believe God has called them to do and who are you to denigrate another man's servant. O thou Romans 14 theological expert...On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:18:00 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:It is a shame we will not be able to finish this thread, I suppose, but I must say something here -- the conflict (speaking for myself) is not between science and religion. It is between religion and fundamentalism (radical fundamentalism, if you will.) Knowing that the first step will not be last step for Rad Fundies, I prefer to deal
with the situation outside the school setting. The church has done an excellent job in this regard with the High School population -- but it has forsaken the University campus' without a fight. Truth will win out if compared to that which has no bearings. The failure, here, is with the church and its seeming inability to continue with the college age population. It -- religion - simply does not need to be in collegiate curriculum to win the fight for the hearts and minds of the college age student. The church has done a shameful job with the older student, just as it does with the unwanted-infant population. If the church could place 1.4 million newborns each year -- abortion would be EASILY defeated. But , as long as we think that after birth,it is all up to the infant, well, the battle will
rage. In short -- the fundies (and not they alone) do not want the kind of involvement that would make victory in either venue almost undeniable. I do not want the Carroll Dean's and Pat Robertsons of this world running anything of an evangelistic nature.jd -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lance wrote: If Williams is a 'liberal loonie' then you are a 'sectarian loonie' , David. I'm sectarian only in the sense that the holy and the profane ought to be separate. I am not sectarian within the group of those who have
submitted unto Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. Lance wrote: He is a brother in Christ who believes differently than you on some matters. Now, if that makes him what you say then, that makes you what I say. He is not a liberal loony for believing differently from me. The moniker was offered because of his statement about how acknowledgement of our Creator did not belong in schools. He made an irrational statement, assuming tha t CNN reported him accurately. If he is a brother in Christ, then I expect to hear a retraction or clarification made soon as other believers correct him. If he is not a brother in Christ, then he will continue to support the working of iniquity that seeks to remove the acknowledgment of God our Creator from the schools. What he said was very damaging to our society, to believers who
want to acknowledge God the Creator in their study of origins. To think that science and the acknowledgement of God are incompatible is expected from scientists but not from theologians, and certainly not from the Right Reverend Doctor Rowland Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury. David Miller -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this lis t, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
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Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

There is no point in such posts. You can't get it right with Stone/Campbell. no point in believing you can get it right concerning anything else. Information sources need to be predictably accurate -- not just predictable. .

-- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
A man may be Theologically Intelligent but Spiritually Ignorant and without personal morals.
Then again maybe ignorant on both count
RW on the Atonement"'Christians have always found it hard to say exactly how this works. Some speak of Jesus taking the punishment for sin in our place, some speak of him offering himself as a sacrifice. Some speak of him winning a victory over Satan and setting all of us who are prisoners free. It seems that there is no one way of saying this correctly.'

Unitarian DRUID!
http://www.thechristianexpositor.org/page120.html Archbishop - or Arch-heretic?Williams had been inducted into 'the Gorsedd of Bards', reported to be an historic order of Druids with pagan roots. Williams apparently went through an hour-long ceremony at sunrise within a circle of standing stones like those at Stonehenge and the significance was variously reported, e.g.: 'The Gorsedd of Bards takes its name from the high seat, which was the mount on which the sacred kings were wedded to the female spirit of the land in ancient times.'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1045967,00.html
archbishop finds himself cast out by evangelicals Congress exposes Anglican leader's position as split over gays grows deeper

BIRDS of a FEATHER FLOCK TOGETHER!

Anglican Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams to John Paul II, 10/4/03: In 1966 Pope Paul VI gave Archbishop Michael Ramsey his own Episcopal ring, which has been treasured by his successors and which I wear today. I am glad to thank you for the personal gift of a pectoral cross, sent to me on the occasion of my enthronement earlier this year. As I took on my new ministry I appreciated deeply that sign of a shared task
This is the seal of a VALID Bishop of ROME!

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/09/27/1032734282506.html
Rowan Williams, the next archbishop of Canterbury, is to meet members of the Church of England's oldest evangelical body next week in an attempt to convince them that he is not a heretic over his views on homosexuality and the literal truth of some biblical stories
Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Rowan Williams should be embarassed for being a pretenderLance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You do KNOW, do you not David, that that's NOT the source of his embarrassment? Rowan Williams is not embarrassed concerning our Lord ANYWHERE. He, not unlike many, are embarrassed over believers turning non-issues into 'issues'. (i.e. creationISM)- Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: March 21, 2006 13:12Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Yup is right, but how does he get from this thought to the idea that creationism should not be considered in schools? I hate it when theologians are embarassed of giving glory to the Creator in school. David Miller - Original Message - From: Debbie Sawczak To: 'Lance Muir' Sent: March 21, 2006 12:15 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism<
BR> "And for most of the history of Christianity ... there's been an awareness that a belief that everything depends on the creative act of God is quite compatible with a degree of uncertainty or latitude about how precisely that unfolds in creative time." Yup. D From: Lance Muir [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 12:09 PM To: Debbie Sawczak Subject: Fw: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 21, 2006 12:06 Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism - Original Message - From: Hughes Jonathan To: Lance Muir Sent: March 21, 2006 10:45 Subject: Williams on Creationism http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/03/21/britain.wi
lliams.ap/index.html Jonathan Hughes Supervisor of Application Support Kingsway Financial 905-629-7888 x. 2471 This e-mail and any attachments contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. Thank you for your cooperation in connection with the above. Ce courriel ainsi que tous les documents s'y rattachant contiennent de l'information confidentielle et privilégiée. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire visé, s.v.p. en informer immédiatement son expéditeur par retour de courriel, effacer le message et détruire toute copie (électronique ou autre). Toute diffusion ou utilisati
on de cette information par une personne autre que le

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

All their rhetoric about the compatibility of faith and science doesn't mean much at all if they affirm this idea that the Creator should be ignored in the study of science.Only if the study of Science is REALLY about the pursuit of truth! Sadly that has not been it's track record.David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alister McGrath? He was received at Oxford as an atheist, and later he converted to Christianity. I guess your point is that John should become an atheist first and then he would get in?You still don't get my point. A Christian these days, according to many of these theologians, must adopt the dogma that the mention of a Creator or models that involve a Creator should not be taught in school. All their rhetoric about the compatibility of faith
and science doesn't mean much at all if they affirm this idea that the Creator should be ignored in the study of science.David Miller- Original Message - From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:47 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on CreationismDavid:I'll take a pass on the ad-homs in your post as they simply illustrate whatI've said concerning you all along. You're an insular, rationalism-based,anthropolically centered, angry, fundamentalist-based, sectarian. Ooops! Ididn't 'take a pass' did I?I've but one name to give to you and this so-called grief stricken student.Alister McGrath. Both of you do your homework so that you might see just howwrong you are. (Bonus name: Thomas Weinandy).Go to it guys!- Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To:
Sent: March 22, 2006 08:39Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David Miller wrote: I hate it when theologians are embarrassed of giving glory to the Creator in school. Lance wrote: You do KNOW, do you not David, that that's NOT the source of his embarrassment? Rowan Williams is not embarrassed concerning our Lord ANYWHERE. He, not unlike many, are embarrassed over believers turning non-issues into 'issues'. (i.e. creationISM) There is more to this issue that this. Is he embarrassed of certain brands of creationism? Of course. I am too. I'm embarrassed of Henry Morris and that whole ICR group over there. At the same time, they serve a purpose in what they do, and we should not revolt to them so much that we accept the atheistic
and scientific agenda of removing all references to the Creator from our public schools. You say it is a NON-ISSUE? I consider such a statement ignorant in the extreme. Deceptive to the core. There is one thing that the ICR group has illustrated, and that is that this is an issue. I talked with a student a few months ago, John Boyles, just before he was elected to be President of Student Government at the University of Florida.. I talked with him about the persecution my daughter is undergoing at UF just because she believes the Bible that homosexual behavior is sinful. He confided to me that he applied for a Rhodes scholarship to study theology at Oxford. He was turned down because he argued in his oral examination / interview that the idea of Intelligent Design should be considered in the classroom. If this was a non-issue, these professors
of theology would have tolerated his creationist convictions. I wish I could convey to you the grief this man carried over his own religious persecution by those who would not have him study theology because he believed intelligent design theories should be considered in school. I truly believe that these modern theologians assume that scientists are well studied in origins and are deeply convicted about the truth of evolutionary processes and the absurdity of the teaching of Genesis. When the truth comes out, they will be the ones who will be greatly embarrassed in the day of our Lord. The philosopher Thomas Khun was right in how he depicted the way science really operates. These theologians who object to Creationist models of origins should pay attention to him just a little bit more. David Miller --
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.--"Let your speech be always with grace,
seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every

Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

The STANDARD of ORTHODOXY in RW's eyes as shown in his own words is The opinions of Men in the consensus of his churchDavid Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lance, you have never been able to distinguish between Orthodoxy and the teaching of Scripture. Judy has been trying so hard to get you to see it. Martin Luther, if he was here, would be trying so hard to get you to see it. You just don't get it. Orthodoxy and the teaching of Scripture is not the same thing. We repent if we walk contrary to Scripture. We do not necessarily repent if we depart from Orthodoxy, nor do we call upon others to repent if they depart from Orthodoxy. The standard of Orthodoxy and the standard of the Bible are two different things. Why can't you see that?David Miller- Original Message - From: "Lance Muir"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:34 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?David:'PROVEN'? 'ERROR' In the light of 'orthodox' thought concerning theTriune nature of God David, it is an heresy. It'd appear to be an heresythat is a part of YOUR BELIEVE CONCERNING THE TRIUNE NATURE OF GOD but, thatdoes not change what it is in this context.- Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: March 21, 2006 13:14Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? Excuse me, John, but nobody has proven that modalism is an error, so how can you use the word repent in regards to this? Do you really think it is a sin for someone to think modalism is useful in understanding the Godhead? David
Miller - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:56 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? In short, Modalism !! Modalism The error that there is only one person in the Godhead who manifests himself in three forms or manners: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. REPENT -- HURRY !! jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GOD IS ONE; JESUS SAID "I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE" More accurately, one person in three manifestations On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 06:27:25 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: ONE GOD IN THREE PERSONS From: ShieldsFamily Unity in Diversity.
Fatness in Skinniness. Ugliness in Beauty. Dumbness in Intelligence. Wisdom in Nonsense. Jibberish in Eloquence. iz If your idea were so JD then Jesus would have prayed "make them "unity in diversity" just as we are ... I see that nowhere in scripture. Jesus said if someone had seen him they had seen the Father because he did only what he first saw the Father do and he said only what he first heard from the Father. This is the kind of unity he was praying about JD. Unifying around rebellion is what the end times "harlot church" is all about. On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 07:11:21 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: We shall be one as He and the Father are one, someday, Judy. Right now, unity inspite of diversity is all we've got. Because you and I are not of the same Christ does not mean
that unity in diversity does not exist. jd From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Agreed! I to hate all the isms and all the ologies. In fact I don't see why we can not lay them aside so that we may recognize the faith once delivered to the saints and "walk in Truth" or reality. Jesus was not referring to any "Unity in diversity" in John 17. He prayed they would be One as He and the Father are One Is "Unity in diversity" how you see the Godhead or "Trinity?" JD On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 05:33:59 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Sectarianism! Amen! Have you (of course you have) taken note of those who so identify others as sectarians while their group (sect) is thus reflective of a repristinated gospel. They seem themselves as 'recovering' the truth. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] It has occurred to
me that legalism, although unattractive as it is, is not my real complaint. Henceforth and forever more, I will be opposed to sectarianism. The legal content of the sectarian is often different -- but the sectarian is the same kind of cat, regardless of his/her stripes. They are the ones who oppose the unity concerns expressed by Christ in John 17. There can be unity in diversity. In sectarian circles, the only unity that exists is one borne of the fear of reprisal. jd From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] One other thought on the creation thread. I wrote my remarks more because of Conor than for any other reason. My comments can stand on their own, I believe. I do not believe in a 6000 year old earth nor do I beleive the bible teaches such - for the reasons stated. Could the earth be only 6000 years old. I suppose so, but only the sectarians
beleive such, IMHO. Is God the creator? Now that is the real question. I would think we all agree on the answer to that question. End of the matter for me.

Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

And what do his other "works" say about him, to you?How do you feel about his taking part in a DRUID worship service?David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lance wrote: If Williams is a 'liberal loonie' then you are a 'sectarian loonie' , David.I'm sectarian only in the sense that the holy and the profane ought to be separate. I am not sectarian within the group of those who have submitted unto Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.Lance wrote: He is a brother in Christ who believes differently than you on some matters. Now, if that makes him what you say then, that makes you what I say.He is not a liberal loony for believing differently from me. The moniker was offered because of his statement about how acknowledgement of our
Creator did not belong in schools. He made an irrational statement, assuming that CNN reported him accurately. If he is a brother in Christ, then I expect to hear a retraction or clarification made soon as other believers correct him. If he is not a brother in Christ, then he will continue to support the working of iniquity that seeks to remove the acknowledgment of God our Creator from the schools. What he said was very damaging to our society, to believers who want to acknowledge God the Creator in their study of origins. To think that science and the acknowledgement of God are incompatible is expected from scientists but not from theologians, and certainly not from the Right Reverend Doctor Rowland Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury.David Miller--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf
you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.

Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Which is a very dangerous position to take.  Of course many enjoy it, "when our leaders speak the thinking has been done"David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  Sadly, Lance, you do not see that you are the one who offers only a "harumph." Kevin presented actual evidence for consideration.David Miller- Original Message - From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:42 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is BadDavid/Kevin: 'Good point'? As I said recently to David concerningtheology/science/logic; should you respond only with 'harumph' in the faceof mounting evidence then, you ought to be speaking only with those who holdyour views on
 things. This is a 'cultish' approach and, is inherentlydangerous.- Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: March 21, 2006 17:56Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim2006-Not All Authority is Bad ROTFLOL. Good point, Kevin. David Miller - Original Message -  From: "Kevin Deegan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To:  Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor. ROTFL That is Ludicrous on the face of it. Where did you pick this whopper up? Perhaps you need a
 Geography lesson! http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California, SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil. How dare Arab propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare anyone believe them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of 22 Arab countries? How can the 13 million Jews in the world (almost 5 million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to 1.4 billion Muslims worldwide? I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of David before he meets Goliath! LOL
 --- Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd 'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly, Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad There is little point in talking with someone who knows me better than I know me. Such arrogant surmising is the product of the kind of narrowness that I disregard. jd -- Original message --  From: "ShieldsFamily"
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Jd, I never said the Jews will be restored Outside of the church; they will be become believers. You say you don't dislike Jews more than any other unbelievers. It is obvious to me that you do. Your stereotypes and slurs are very revealing. Izzy Romans 11 Israel Is Not Cast Away 1I say then, God has not (A)rejected His people, has He? (B)May it never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God (D)has not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew (F)Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel? 3"Lord, (G)THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY
 LIFE." 4But what is the divine response to him? "(H)I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL." 5In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time (I)a remnant according to God's gracious choice. 6But (J)if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. 7What then? What (K)Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were (L)hardened; 8just as it is written, "(M)GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR, EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT, DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY." 9And David says, "(N)LET THEIR TABLE BECOME A SNARE AND A TRAP, AND A STUMBLING BLOCK AND A RETRIBUTION TO THEM. 10"(O)LET
 THEIR EYES BE DARKENED TO SEE NOT, AND BEND THEIR BACKS FOREVER." 11(P)I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? (Q)May it never be! But by their transgression (R)salvation has come to the Gentiles, to (S)make them jealous. 12Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

Then maybe you can flesh it out for the rest of us.  I am sure Lance can not/will notI am sure we can see the difference, but just what are the symptoms of that particular ISM?  David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  Lance wrote: Fundamental Christianity is [fine]...  FundamentalISM ought not be  believed by anyone.FWIW: I can appreciate this distinction Lance makes.David Miller--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

And we have been been here so long and you have offered WHAT EVIDENCE?O I forgot Lances BASELESS ASSERTIONS qualify as Evidence.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David:It's because this is that which passes for evidence with such as yourself. I've seen that for a long time.- Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: March 22, 2006 10:26Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Sadly, Lance, you do not see that you are the one who offers only a "harumph." Kevin presented actual evidence for consideration. David Miller -
Original Message - From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:42 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad David/Kevin: 'Good point'? As I said recently to David concerning theology/science/logic; should you respond only with 'harumph' in the face of mounting evidence then, you ought to be speaking only with those who hold your views on things. This is a 'cultish' approach and, is inherently dangerous. - Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: March 21, 2006 17:56 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad ROTFLOL. Good
point, Kevin. David Miller - Original Message - From: "Kevin Deegan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor. ROTFL That is Ludicrous on the face of it. Where did you pick this whopper up? Perhaps you need a Geography lesson! http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California, SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the
oil. How dare Arab propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare anyone believe them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of 22 Arab countries? How can the 13 million Jews in the world (almost 5 million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to 1.4 billion Muslims worldwide? I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of David before he meets Goliath! LOL --- Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd 'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY
ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly, Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad There is little point in talking with someone who knows me better than I know me. Such arrogant surmising is the product of the kind of narrowness that I disregard. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Jd, I never said the Jews will be restored Outside of the
church; they will be become believers. You say you don't dislike Jews more than any other unbelievers. It is obvious to me that you do. Your stereotypes and slurs are very revealing. Izzy Romans 11 Israel Is Not Cast Away 1I say then, God has not (A)rejected His people, has He? (B)May it never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God (D)has not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew (F)Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel? 3"Lord, (G)THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE."
4But what is the divine response to him? "(H)I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL." 5In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time (I)a remnant according to God's gracious choice. 6But (J)if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. 7What then? What (K)Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were (L)hardened; 8just as it is written, "(M)GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR, EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT, DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY." 9And David says, "(N)LET THEIR TABLE BECOME A SNARE AND A TRAP, AND A STUMBLING BLOCK AND A
RETRIBUTION TO

Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses Giant!

And the Evidence you present? Is where? Question, Is belief in spite of lack of evidence some sort of ISM? Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:After years of bloodshed even sissies might get a
little aggitated.Please provide one quote: Where a Jew calls an arab a Rat Dog or vermin Where a leader of the nation of Israel calls for the complete annihilation of an Arab state Where the Jews through a party while dancing on the bodies of dead arabs Where Jews carry the entrails of dead arabs as a emblem of victory above their heads Where a jew drives his car through a crowd to show them what Jehovah thinks of them where Jews torture muslims Show me a picture of a Jew dressed up as a Human bomb! Show me some jewish Educational resources (books videos ) endorsing bombing muslims Show me Jewish TV shows endorsing Bombing muslimsThe Little sheppard boy is an Oppressor of the GIANT - Ludicrous on it's face! Ya Know that ruddy faced sheppard boy does look a little intimidating!
LOLhttp://jihadwatch.org/archives/010470.php Suicide bombing endorsed in kids book recommended by Canadian librarieshttp://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1120847/posts The body of a police special forces officer who died when Islamic terrorists blew themselves up in Madrid was taken from its grave, mutilated and burnt yesterday. In addition to supporting WMD thru CPP funds, do you also endorse these Suicide Bomb books in CANADIAN Libraries???Are these Jewish BOYS Then again Who is oppressing who? They oppress their own people! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4601244/ Turning a blind eye to child suicide bombers - Where's the outrage over the
Palestinians' mistreatment of children? ARE YOU BLIND IN ONE EYE? Slingshot MISHAP?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Even at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on some occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!- Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad But Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan Sent:
Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor. ROTFL That is Ludicrous on the face of it. Where did you pick this whopper up? Perhaps you need a Geography lesson! http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California, SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil. How dare Arab propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare anyone believe them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of
22 Arab countries? How can the 13 million Jews in the world (almost 5 million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to 1.4 billion Muslims worldwide? I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of David before he meets Goliath! LOL --- Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd 'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly, Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11 Subject: RE:
[TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad There is little point in talking with someone who knows me better than I know me. Such arrogant surmising is the product of the kind of narrowness that I disregard. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Jd, I never said the Jews will be restored Outside of the church; they will be become believers. You say you don't dislike Jews more than any other unbelievers. It is obvious to me that you do. Your stereotypes and slurs are very revealing. Izzy Romans 11 Israel Is Not Cast Away 1I say then, God has not (A)rejected His people, has He? (B)May it never be! For (C)I
too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God (D)has not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew (F)Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel? 3"Lord, (G)THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE

Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses Giant!

Lance says Hmm curiouser curiouserBehind the 'Looking Glass' would one encounter DM KD? As John, the good bishop said, without the you-know-who's on TT it'd be one grand backslapping 'hail fellow well met'Ba Da Boom Ba Da Bing Thats all folks still no evidence!Do you support "Suicide bombing endorsed in kids book recommended by Canadian libraries" ? Personal funding of WMD Weapons of Mass Destruction with your own Retirement funds? Turning a blind eye? H! Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmm curiouser curiouserBehind the 'Looking Glass' would one encounter DM KD? As John, the good bishop said, without the you-know-who's on TT it'd be one grand backslapping 'hail fellow well met'- Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 22, 2006 13:10 Subject: Re:
[TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses Giant!Excellent point again, Kevin. Stand by for the "harumph" in spite of all the evidence.David Miller- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:24 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses Giant!After years of bloodshed
even sissies might get a little aggitated.Please provide one quote: Where a Jew calls an arab a Rat Dog or vermin Where a leader of the nation of Israel calls for the complete annihilation of an Arab state Where the Jews through a party while dancing on the bodies of dead arabs Where Jews carry the entrails of dead arabs as a emblem of victory above their heads Where a jew drives his car through a crowd to show them what Jehovah thinks of them where Jews torture muslims Show me a picture of a Jew dressed up as a Human bomb! Show me some jewish Educational resources (books videos ) endorsing bombing muslims Show me Jewish TV shows endorsing Bombing muslimsThe Little sheppard boy is an Oppressor of the GIANT - Ludicrous on it's face! Ya Know that ruddy faced sheppard boy does look a
little intimidating! LOLhttp://jihadwatch.org/archives/010470.php Suicide bombing endorsed in kids book recommended by Canadian librarieshttp://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1120847/posts The body of a police special forces officer who died when Islamic terrorists blew themselves up in Madrid was taken from its grave, mutilated and burnt yesterday. In addition to supporting WMD thru CPP funds, do you also endorse these Suicide Bomb books in CANADIAN Libraries???Are these Jewish BOYS Then again Who is oppressing who? They oppress their own people! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4601244/ Turning a blind eye to child suicide bombers - Where's the outrage over the
Palestinians' mistreatment of children? ARE YOU BLIND IN ONE EYE? Slingshot MISHAP?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Even at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on some occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!- Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad But Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan Sent:
Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor. ROTFL That is Ludicrous on the face of it. Where did you pick this whopper up? Perhaps you need a Geography lesson! http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California, SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil. How dare Arab propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare anyone believe them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of
22 Arab countries? How can the 13 million Jews in the world (almost 5 million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to 1.4 billion Muslims worldwide? I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of David before he meets Goliath! LOL --- Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd 'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly, Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To:

Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses Giant!

STILL WAITING Do you support books in Canadian Libraries that encourage Suicide Bombing?David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Excellent point again, Kevin. Stand by for the "harumph" in spite of all the evidence.David Miller- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:24 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses Giant!After years of bloodshed even sissies might get a little aggitated.Please provide one quote: Where a Jew calls an arab a Rat Dog or vermin Where a leader of the nation of Israel calls for the complete annihilation of an Arab state Where the Jews through a party while dancing on the bodies of dead arabs Where Jews carry the entrails of dead arabs as a emblem of victory above their heads Where a jew drives his car through a crowd to show them what Jehovah thinks of them where Jews torture muslims Show me a picture of a Jew dressed up as a Human bomb!
Show me some jewish Educational resources (books videos ) endorsing bombing muslims Show me Jewish TV shows endorsing Bombing muslimsThe Little sheppard boy is an Oppressor of the GIANT - Ludicrous on it's face! Ya Know that ruddy faced sheppard boy does look a little intimidating! LOLhttp://jihadwatch.org/archives/010470.php Suicide bombing endorsed in kids book recommended by Canadian librarieshttp://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1120847/posts The body of a police special forces officer who died when Islamic terrorists blew themselves up in Madrid was taken from its grave, mutilated and burnt
yesterday. In addition to supporting WMD thru CPP funds, do you also endorse these Suicide Bomb books in CANADIAN Libraries???Are these Jewish BOYS Then again Who is oppressing who? They oppress
their own people! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4601244/ Turning a blind eye to child suicide bombers - Where's the outrage over the Palestinians' mistreatment of children? ARE YOU BLIND IN ONE EYE? Slingshot MISHAP?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Even at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on some occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!- Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
2006-Not All Authority is Bad But Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor. ROTFL That is Ludicrous on the face of it. Where did you pick this whopper up? Perhaps you need a Geography lesson! http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California, SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her
size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil. How dare Arab propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare anyone believe them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of 22 Arab countries? How can the 13 million Jews in the world (almost 5 million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to 1.4 billion Muslims worldwide? I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of David before he meets Goliath! LOL --- Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd 'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly, Israel,
many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad There is little point in talking with someone who knows me better than I know me. Such arrogant surmising is the product of the kind of narrowness that I disregard. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Jd, I never said the Jews will be restored Outside of the church; they will be become believers. You say you don't dislike Jews more than any other unbelievers.
It is obvious to me that you do. Your stereotypes and slurs are very revealing. Izzy Romans 11 Israel Is Not Cast Away 1I say then, God has not (A)rejected His people, has He? (B)May it never be! For (C)I too am an

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articlesaction="">  Polonium Radiohalos: The Model for Their Formation Tested and Verified  http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articlesaction="">But being that it is ICR research you may be too embarrassed to read it. ; )http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=homeaction="">David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  David Miller wrote: Have you read Creation's Tiny Mystery, by
 Robert Gentry?Lance wrote: No, I've not but, what would I learn were I to do so, David?I'm glad you asked.There are several things you would learn:1. You would learn about the evidence for polonium halos indicating that the basement rocks of the earth were created rapidly, in minutes, rather than cooling over a million years.2. You would see a clear example of how science operates by constructing hypotheses and testing those hypotheses, falsifying each one.3. You would learn about the bigotry in science against publishing articles that suggest a creationist model of origins.4. You would learn a little about how a court room judge relied upon expert testimony to the exclusion of examining scientific evidence.The book is an easy read, and it breaks down the science into very simple concepts. It is well worth the read by anyone interested in the creation versus evolution
 controversy.David Miller--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses Giant!