Re: [TruthTalk] Anti-Christian
DAVEH: No PerryAs I have repeatedly explained, I do not consider those who simply disagree with me to be anti-Mormons. It has more to do in the way you emphasize your disagreement. There are many TTers who disagree with my beliefs, but they have done nothing I know about that would make me think they are anti-Mormons. You however have specifically suggested that you are on a crusade against Mormonism.is that correct? If so, then you would be defined as an anti-Mormons by LDS folks. Do you really think I am using the term anti-Mormon to defame and inflame you? If so, you are simply mistaken, Perry. And no.I did not say that LDS folks coined the anti-Mormon term to describe those who simply disagree with our religion. Did you read my below statement I believe one can disagree with my LDS theology, and not be an anti-Mormon. .Why would you claim I said otherwise? Charles Perry Locke wrote: I see. When you disagree with Christians, it is not anti-Christian, but when I disagree with mormons it is anti-mormon. That is a double standard. You say I denigrate your religion. What do you do when you deny the Trinity? Politically motivated means that the term is meant more to defame and inflame than to identify a trait. You admitted such yourself by saying that mormons invented to term to refer to people that disagree with their religion. Perry From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Anti-Christian Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 22:34:52 -0700 DAVEH: Double standard!?!?!?! Do you sincerely believe that, Perry? There are a lot of TTers who I do not consider to be anti-Mormon. At least they have not exhibited any characteristics that would meet my definition. I believe one can disagree with my LDS theology, and not be an anti-Mormon. But when one actively denigrates my beliefs, then I would view him as an anti-Mormon. That is why I consider both you and Kevin to be anti-Mormons, as you have both made a substantial effort to publicly denigrate the LDS Church. Nor do I understand why you think it is politically motivated. I think you are reading much more into this than is logical to assume. By labeling you and Kevin as anti-Mormon, what political effects, benefits or motivations do you see it having in TT? Do you think it is going to sway other TTers one way or another from what they currently believe? Just what do you perceive the political fallout to be? Charles Perry Locke wrote: From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] LDS folks did coin the anti-Mormon term, and subsequently defined it in effect as one who actively preaches against and denigrates LDS theology Right so it is a defense/deflection mechanism to label those that are engaged in any form of criticism of the church in an attempt to dismiss ALL the Criticism since they are just ANTI's Like I said before, it's use is politically motivated. Also, Dave, you said "That I would disagree or even argue that another's Christian based theology is misguided would not make me an anti-Christian". That is a double standard to say that I am "anti-mormon" because I "disagree or even argue that another's Christian based theology is misguided". Perry -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] Anti-Christian
DAVEH: Ps 82:6 ;-) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ShieldsFamily wrote: God decides who is anti-Christian. It is anyone who is against Christ and His true gospel. That includes JSmith and all his devotees, however misguided. Izzy Blaine: Izzy, I hate having to point this out--believe me, it hurts me to say this--but it seems there is something contradictive when you say, first, that God decides who is anti-Christian, then you follow this up by telling us who is anti-Christian. I have to ask--and please take this as a strictly impersonal question--are you God? -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Anti-Christian
A 'perspectivalism' yet again! It may be that those who so speak shall one day acknowledge your point 'BB'. By the by, that'd include you and I. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 13, 2005 01:39 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Anti-Christian ShieldsFamily wrote: God decides who is anti-Christian. It is anyone who is against Christ and His true gospel. That includes JSmith and all his devotees, however misguided. Izzy Blaine: Izzy, I hate having to point this out--believe me, it hurts me to say this--but it seems there is something contradictive when you say, first, that God decides who is anti-Christian, then you follow this up by telling us who is anti-Christian. I have to ask--and please take this as a strictly impersonal question--are you God? ___ Get Juno Platinum for as low as $4.97/month! Unlimited Internet Access with 250MB of Email Storage. Visit http://www.juno.com/half to sign up today! -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Anti-Christian
IFF I believe the earth is flat IFF I believe in geocentrism . IFF I date the cosmos to 4004 BC then, IMO, I am anti-reality. Like that, man.. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 13, 2005 01:55 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Anti-Christian DAVEH: But Lance...did you use the term anti-Christian before you joined TT? I'm wondering if it is a commonly used term in the Christian world, or if it has just become a popular TT term in response to the anti-Mormon term that is being discussed. I guess I'm not as clever as you may think, Lance. No...I still do not agree with you. Just because somebody has a different understanding/belief about Jesus does not make him an anti-Christian. Here's a simple definition from the net..Christian : someone who follows the teachings of Jesus Christ...To be an anti-Christian, would not one be engaged in an effort to denigrate Jesus rather than be attempting to follow his teachings? If you want to define anti-Christian as having a false understanding of Jesus, then (excluding the Mormons on TT) do you suppose that everybody on TT has exactly the same correct understanding of Jesus? If not, then any who have the slightest misunderstanding would be an anti-Christianis that the way you see it Lance?Lance Muir wrote: Q:Do Christians ever...? I do. When I read/hear 'a' Jesus I don't recognize from Scripture then, I deem that message 'anti-christian'. You're a clever guy, Dave. You see the distinction. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 12, 2005 10:12 Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Anti-Christian DAVEH: Sure it does, Lance. Do Christians ever use the term, anti-Christian? Or, is it simply a term Perry/Kevin coined to label me with in an effort to disparage my belief in Jesus? That I would disagree or even argue that another's Christian based theology is misguided would not make me an anti-Christian. Even if I were right in that thinking, it would not make the other person not a Christian. As long as his beliefs are based on Christian principles (rightly or wrongly), he would by dictionary definitions be a Christian. LDS folks did coin the anti-Mormon term, and subsequently defined it in effect as one who actively preaches against and denigrates LDS theology. If Perry/Kevin want to label me anti-Christian, then the similarity does not hold as I do not actively preach against Jesus. From what I remember about your posts, you do not actively denigrate LDS theology. Hence I do not consider you an anti-Mormon. That you don't believe LDS theology does not enter into the equation. It is your intent, as I see it. Perry and Kevin on the other hand have demonstrated their desire to actively fight against LDS theology, hence they meet the qualification of being an anti-Mormon. Do you see the differenceit seems to me to be the intent, as well as the actions. I hope I've not muddled that up as I've tried to explain it.Lance Muir wrote: DH:Intent does play a part. DAVEH: Ahhh, thanx for the explanation, Lance. I would respectfully disagree with you though. If two people sincerely believe they are Christians, in the sense of following the admonitions of Jesus as they understand them, then neither would be an anti-Christian in my opinioneven though one (or perhaps both) are believing/teaching things about Jesus that may not be true. As I see it, an anti-Christian would be one who is defiantly teaching against Jesus, and the term would not apply to one who is simply mistaken in his beliefs about Jesus. Lance Muir wrote: When you believe/teach a Jesus who is other than Who He really is then, you are anti-Christ. This would/could be equally true of some non-Mormon Christians. DAVEH: You've lost me on this one, LanceWill you please rephrase it so a sleepy Mormon boy can understand the question? Lance Muir wrote: YOU ARE INDEED IFF what you have come to believe is, in reality, not the true gospel. Would you not agree? - Original Message - From: "Dave Hansen" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 09, 2005 10:04 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Dispersions DAVEH: Why would you consider me anti-Christian, Kevin? Have I been attacking Jesus? Perry on the other hand has admitted to attacking Mormonism, so the anti-Mormon label would be appropriate, would it not? Ke
RE: [TruthTalk] Anti-Christian
Blaine, you may wait and let God confirm it later if you wish to live dangerously. Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 11:40 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Anti-Christian ShieldsFamily wrote: God decides who is anti-Christian. It is anyone who is against Christ and His true gospel. That includes JSmith and all his devotees, however misguided. Izzy Blaine: Izzy, I hate having to point this out--believe me, it hurts me to say this--but it seems there is something contradictive when you say, first, that God decides who is anti-Christian, then you follow this up by telling us who is anti-Christian. I have to ask--and please take this as a strictly impersonal question--are you God? ___ Get Juno Platinum for as low as $4.97/month! Unlimited Internet Access with 250MB of Email Storage. Visit http://www.juno.com/half to sign up today! -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
[TruthTalk] Anti-Christian
DAVEH: Sure it does, Lance. Do Christians ever use the term, anti-Christian? Or, is it simply a term Perry/Kevin coined to label me with in an effort to disparage my belief in Jesus? That I would disagree or even argue that another's Christian based theology is misguided would not make me an anti-Christian. Even if I were right in that thinking, it would not make the other person not a Christian. As long as his beliefs are based on Christian principles (rightly or wrongly), he would by dictionary definitions be a Christian. LDS folks did coin the anti-Mormon term, and subsequently defined it in effect as one who actively preaches against and denigrates LDS theology. If Perry/Kevin want to label me anti-Christian, then the similarity does not hold as I do not actively preach against Jesus. From what I remember about your posts, you do not actively denigrate LDS theology. Hence I do not consider you an anti-Mormon. That you don't believe LDS theology does not enter into the equation. It is your intent, as I see it. Perry and Kevin on the other hand have demonstrated their desire to actively fight against LDS theology, hence they meet the qualification of being an anti-Mormon. Do you see the differenceit seems to me to be the intent, as well as the actions. I hope I've not muddled that up as I've tried to explain it. Lance Muir wrote: DH:Intent does play a part. DAVEH: Ahhh, thanx for the explanation, Lance. I would respectfully disagree with you though. If two people sincerely believe they are Christians, in the sense of following the admonitions of Jesus as they understand them, then neither would be an anti-Christian in my opinioneven though one (or perhaps both) are believing/teaching things about Jesus that may not be true. As I see it, an anti-Christian would be one who is defiantly teaching against Jesus, and the term would not apply to one who is simply mistaken in his beliefs about Jesus. Lance Muir wrote: When you believe/teach a Jesus who is other than Who He really is then, you are anti-Christ. This would/could be equally true of some non-Mormon Christians. DAVEH: You've lost me on this one, LanceWill you please rephrase it so a sleepy Mormon boy can understand the question? Lance Muir wrote: YOU ARE INDEED IFF what you have come to believe is, in reality, not the true gospel. Would you not agree? - Original Message - From: "Dave Hansen" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 09, 2005 10:04 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Dispersions DAVEH: Why would you consider me anti-Christian, Kevin? Have I been attacking Jesus? Perry on the other hand has admitted to attacking Mormonism, so the anti-Mormon label would be appropriate, would it not? Kevin Deegan wrote: You are very perceptive, I am a very sensitive guy : ) I have no problems with labels a wear a few. I do have a problem when it is a manuever to discredit the messenger without dealing with the issues. By the way I believe most of the labels I have posted are of a theological bent (liberal) not such as emotional (ANGRY) or psychological (mental) So if Perry is ANTI Mormon then you qualify on the same grounds as ANTI Christian! -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Anti-Christian
Q:Do Christians ever...? I do. When I read/hear 'a' Jesus I don't recognize from Scripture then, I deem that message 'anti-christian'. You're a clever guy, Dave. You see the distinction. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 12, 2005 10:12 Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Anti-Christian DAVEH: Sure it does, Lance. Do Christians ever use the term, anti-Christian? Or, is it simply a term Perry/Kevin coined to label me with in an effort to disparage my belief in Jesus? That I would disagree or even argue that another's Christian based theology is misguided would not make me an anti-Christian. Even if I were right in that thinking, it would not make the other person not a Christian. As long as his beliefs are based on Christian principles (rightly or wrongly), he would by dictionary definitions be a Christian. LDS folks did coin the anti-Mormon term, and subsequently defined it in effect as one who actively preaches against and denigrates LDS theology. If Perry/Kevin want to label me anti-Christian, then the similarity does not hold as I do not actively preach against Jesus. From what I remember about your posts, you do not actively denigrate LDS theology. Hence I do not consider you an anti-Mormon. That you don't believe LDS theology does not enter into the equation. It is your intent, as I see it. Perry and Kevin on the other hand have demonstrated their desire to actively fight against LDS theology, hence they meet the qualification of being an anti-Mormon. Do you see the differenceit seems to me to be the intent, as well as the actions. I hope I've not muddled that up as I've tried to explain it.Lance Muir wrote: DH:Intent does play a part. DAVEH: Ahhh, thanx for the explanation, Lance. I would respectfully disagree with you though. If two people sincerely believe they are Christians, in the sense of following the admonitions of Jesus as they understand them, then neither would be an anti-Christian in my opinioneven though one (or perhaps both) are believing/teaching things about Jesus that may not be true. As I see it, an anti-Christian would be one who is defiantly teaching against Jesus, and the term would not apply to one who is simply mistaken in his beliefs about Jesus. Lance Muir wrote: When you believe/teach a Jesus who is other than Who He really is then, you are anti-Christ. This would/could be equally true of some non-Mormon Christians. DAVEH: You've lost me on this one, LanceWill you please rephrase it so a sleepy Mormon boy can understand the question? Lance Muir wrote: YOU ARE INDEED IFF what you have come to believe is, in reality, not the true gospel. Would you not agree? - Original Message - From: "Dave Hansen" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 09, 2005 10:04 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Dispersions DAVEH: Why would you consider me anti-Christian, Kevin? Have I been attacking Jesus? Perry on the other hand has admitted to attacking Mormonism, so the anti-Mormon label would be appropriate, would it not? Kevin Deegan wrote: You are very perceptive, I am a very sensitive guy : ) I have no problems with labels a wear a few. I do have a problem when it is a manuever to discredit the messenger without dealing with the issues. By the way I believe most of the labels I have posted are of a theological bent (liberal) not such as emotional (ANGRY) or psychological (mental) So if Perry is ANTI Mormon then you qualify on the same grounds as ANTI Christian! -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com
Re: [TruthTalk] Anti-Christian
LDS folks did coin the anti-Mormon term, and subsequently defined it in effect as one who actively preaches against and denigrates LDS theology Right so it is a defense/deflection mechanism to label those that are engaged in any form of criticismof the church in an attempt to dismiss ALL the Criticism since they are just ANTI'sDave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DAVEH: Sure it does, Lance. Do Christians ever use the term, anti-Christian? Or, is it simply a term Perry/Kevin coined to label me with in an effort to disparage my belief in Jesus? That I would disagree or even argue that another's Christian based theology is misguided would not make me an anti-Christian. Even if I were right in that thinking, it would not make the other person not a Christian. As long as his beliefs are based on Christian principles (rightly or wrongly), he would by dictionary definitions be a Christian. LDS folks did coin the anti-Mormon term, and subsequently defined it in effect as one who actively preaches against and denigrates LDS theology. If Perry/Kevin want to label me anti-Christian, then the similarity does not hold as I do not actively preach against Jesus. From what I remember about your posts, you do not actively denigrate LDS theology. Hence I do not consider you an anti-Mormon. That you don't believe LDS theology does not enter into the equation. It is your intent, as I see it. Perry and Kevin on the other hand have demonstrated their desire to actively fight against LDS theology, hence they meet the qualification of being an anti-Mormon. Do you see the differenceit seems to me to be the intent, as well as the actions. I hope I've not muddled that up as I've tried to explain it.Lance Muir wrote: DH:Intent does play a part. DAVEH: Ahhh, thanx for the explanation, Lance. I would respectfully disagree with you though. If two people sincerely believe they are Christians, in the sense of following the admonitions of Jesus as they understand them, then neither would be an anti-Christian in my opinioneven though one (or perhaps both) are believing/teaching things about Jesus that may not be true. As I see it, an anti-Christian would be one who is defiantly teaching against Jesus, and the term would not apply to one who is simply mistaken in his beliefs about Jesus. Lance Muir wrote: When you believe/teach a Jesus who is other than Who He really is then, you are anti-Christ. This would/could be equally true of some non-Mormon Christians. DAVEH: You've lost me on this one, LanceWill you please rephrase it so a sleepy Mormon boy can understand the question? Lance Muir wrote: YOU ARE INDEED IFF what you have come to believe is, in reality, not the true gospel. Would you not agree? - Original Message - From: "Dave Hansen" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 09, 2005 10:04 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Dispersions DAVEH: Why would you consider me anti-Christian, Kevin? Have I been attacking Jesus? Perry on the other hand has admitted to attacking Mormonism, so the anti-Mormon label would be appropriate, would it not? Kevin Deegan wrote: You are very perceptive, I am a very sensitive guy : ) I have no problems with labels a wear a few. I do have a problem when it is a manuever to discredit the messenger without dealing with the issues. By the way I believe most of the labels I have posted are of a theological bent (liberal) not such as emotional (ANGRY) or psychological (mental) So if Perry is ANTI Mormon then you qualify on the same grounds as ANTI Christian! -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Anti-Christian
But Lance, have you considered your inability to
interpret Scripture - because of the "enlightenment" and
all that goes along with that??? Dave has Mormon
blinders on - Just wondering about you. judyt
On Thu, 12 May 2005 10:46:46 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Q:Do Christians ever...? I do. When I read/hear
'a' Jesus I don't recognize from Scripture then, I deem that message
'anti-christian'. You're a clever guy, Dave. You see the
distinction.
- Original Message -
From:
Dave Hansen
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: May 12, 2005 10:12
Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk]
Anti-Christian
DAVEH: Sure it does, Lance. Do Christians ever
use the term, anti-Christian? Or, is it simply a term
Perry/Kevin coined to label me with in an effort to disparage my belief in
Jesus? That I would disagree or even argue that another's Christian
based theology is misguided would not make me an anti-Christian. Even
if I were right in that thinking, it would not make the other person not a
Christian. As long as his beliefs are based on Christian principles
(rightly or wrongly), he would by dictionary definitions be a
Christian. LDS folks did coin the anti-Mormon
term, and subsequently defined it in effect as one who actively preaches
against and denigrates LDS theology. If Perry/Kevin want to label me
anti-Christian, then the similarity does not hold as I do not actively
preach against Jesus. From what I remember about
your posts, you do not actively denigrate LDS theology. Hence I do not
consider you an anti-Mormon. That you don't believe LDS theology does
not enter into the equation. It is your intent, as I see it.
Perry and Kevin on the other hand have demonstrated their desire to actively
fight against LDS theology, hence they meet the qualification of being an
anti-Mormon. Do you see the differenceit seems to me to be the
intent, as well as the actions. I hope I've not
muddled that up as I've tried to explain it.Lance Muir wrote:
DH:Intent does play a part.
DAVEH: Ahhh, thanx for the explanation, Lance. I would
respectfully disagree with you though. If two people sincerely believe
they are Christians, in the sense of following the admonitions of Jesus
as they understand them, then neither would be an anti-Christian in my
opinioneven though one (or perhaps both) are believing/teaching
things about Jesus that may not be true. As I see it, an anti-Christian
would be one who is defiantly teaching against Jesus, and the term would
not apply to one who is simply mistaken in his beliefs about Jesus.
Lance Muir wrote:
When you believe/teach a Jesus who is other than Who He really is then,
you
are anti-Christ. This would/could be equally true of some non-Mormon
Christians.
DAVEH: You've lost me on this one, LanceWill you please rephrase it
so a sleepy Mormon boy can understand the question?
Lance Muir wrote:
YOU ARE INDEED IFF what you have come to believe is, in reality, not
the
true gospel. Would you not agree?
- Original Message -
From: "Dave Hansen" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: May 09, 2005 10:04
Subject: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Dispersions
DAVEH: Why would you consider me anti-Christian, Kevin? Have I been
attacking Jesus?
Perry on the other hand has admitted to attacking Mormonism, so the
anti-Mormon label would be appropriate, would it not?
Kevin Deegan wrote:
You are very perceptive, I am a very sensitive guy : )
I have no problems with labels a wear a few.
I do have a problem when it is a manuever to discredit the messenger
without dealing with the issues.
By the way I believe most of the labels I have posted are of a
theological bent (liberal) not such as emotional (ANGRY) or
psychological (mental)
So if Perry is ANTI Mormon then you qualify on the same grounds as
ANTI Christian!
--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Anti-Christian
He has the Elite PC blindersJudy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But Lance, have you considered your inability to interpret Scripture - because of the "enlightenment" and all that goes along with that??? Dave has Mormon blinders on - Just wondering about you. judyt On Thu, 12 May 2005 10:46:46 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Q:Do Christians ever...? I do. When I read/hear 'a' Jesus I don't recognize from Scripture then, I deem that message 'anti-christian'. You're a clever guy, Dave. You see the distinction. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 12, 2005 10:12 Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Anti-Christian DAVEH: Sure it does, Lance. Do Christians ever use the term, anti-Christian? Or, is it simply a term Perry/Kevin coined to label me with in an effort to disparage my belief in Jesus? That I would disagree or even argue that another's Christian based theology is misguided would not make me an anti-Christian. Even if I were right in that thinking, it would not make the other person not a Christian. As long as his beliefs are based on Christian principles (rightly or wrongly), he would by dictionary definitions be a Christian. LDS folks did coin the anti-Mormon term, and subsequently defined it in effect as one who actively preaches against and denigrates LDS theology. If Perry/Kevin want to label me anti-Christian, then the similarity does not hold as I do not actively preach against Jesus. From what I remember about your posts, you do not actively denigrate LDS theology. Hence I do not consider you an anti-Mormon. That you don't believe LDS theology does not enter into the equation. It is your intent, as I see it. Perry and Kevin on the other hand have demonstrated their desire to actively fight against LDS theology, hence they meet the qualification of being an anti-Mormon. Do you see the differenceit seems to me to be the intent, as well as the actions. I hope I've not muddled that up as I've tried to explain it.Lance Muir wrote: DH:Intent does play a part. DAVEH: Ahhh, thanx for the explanation, Lance. I would respectfully disagree with you though. If two people sincerely believe they are Christians, in the sense of following the admonitions of Jesus as they understand them, then neither would be an anti-Christian in my opinioneven though one (or perhaps both) are believing/teaching things about Jesus that may not be true. As I see it, an anti-Christian would be one who is defiantly teaching against Jesus, and the term would not apply to one who is simply mistaken in his beliefs about Jesus. Lance Muir wrote: When you believe/teach a Jesus who is other than Who He really is then, you are anti-Christ. This would/could be equally true of some non-Mormon Christians. DAVEH: You've lost me on this one, LanceWill you please rephrase it so a sleepy Mormon boy can understand the question? Lance Muir wrote: YOU ARE INDEED IFF what you have come to believe is, in reality, not the true gospel. Would you not agree? - Original Message - From: "Dave Hansen" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 09, 2005 10:04 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Dispersions DAVEH: Why would you consider me anti-Christian, Kevin? Have I been attacking Jesus? Perry on the other hand has admitted to attacking Mormonism, so the anti-Mormon label would be appropriate, would it not? Kevin Deegan wrote: You are very perceptive, I am a very sensitive guy : ) I have no problems with labels a wear a few. I do have a problem when it is a manuever to discredit the messenger without dealing with the issues. By the way I believe most of the labels I have posted are of a theological bent (liberal) not such as emotional (ANGRY) or psychological (mental) So if Perry is ANTI Mormon then you qualify on the same grounds as ANTI Christian! -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a fr
Re: [TruthTalk] Anti-Christian
From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] LDS folks did coin the anti-Mormon term, and subsequently defined it in effect as one who actively preaches against and denigrates LDS theology Right so it is a defense/deflection mechanism to label those that are engaged in any form of criticism of the church in an attempt to dismiss ALL the Criticism since they are just ANTI's Like I said before, it's use is politically motivated. Also, Dave, you said That I would disagree or even argue that another's Christian based theology is misguided would not make me an anti-Christian. That is a double standard to say that I am anti-mormon because I disagree or even argue that another's Christian based theology is misguided. Perry -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] Anti-Christian
God decides who is anti-Christian. It is anyone who is against Christ and His true gospel. That includes JSmith and all his devotees, however misguided. Izzy Matt 12:30He who is not with Me is against Me From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Hansen Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 8:12 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [TruthTalk] Anti-Christian DAVEH: Sure it does, Lance. Do Christians ever use the term, anti-Christian? Or, is it simply a term Perry/Kevin coined to label me with in an effort to disparage my belief in Jesus? That I would disagree or even argue that another's Christian based theology is misguided would not make me an anti-Christian. Even if I were right in that thinking, it would not make the other person not a Christian. As long as his beliefs are based on Christian principles (rightly or wrongly), he would by dictionary definitions be a Christian. LDS folks did coin the anti-Mormon term, and subsequently defined it in effect as one who actively preaches against and denigrates LDS theology. If Perry/Kevin want to label me anti-Christian, then the similarity does not hold as I do not actively preach against Jesus. From what I remember about your posts, you do not actively denigrate LDS theology. Hence I do not consider you an anti-Mormon. That you don't believe LDS theology does not enter into the equation. It is your intent, as I see it. Perry and Kevin on the other hand have demonstrated their desire to actively fight against LDS theology, hence they meet the qualification of being an anti-Mormon. Do you see the differenceit seems to me to be the intent, as well as the actions. I hope I've not muddled that up as I've tried to explain it. Lance Muir wrote: DH:Intent does play a part. DAVEH: Ahhh, thanx for the explanation, Lance. I wouldrespectfully disagree with you though. If two people sincerely believethey are Christians, in the sense of following the admonitions of Jesusas they understand them, then neither would be an anti-Christian in myopinioneven though one (or perhaps both) are believing/teachingthings about Jesus that may not be true. As I see it, an anti-Christianwould be one who is defiantly teaching against Jesus, and the term wouldnot apply to one who is simply mistaken in his beliefs about Jesus.Lance Muir wrote: When you believe/teach a Jesus who is other than Who He really is then, you are anti-Christ. This would/could be equally true of some non-MormonChristians. DAVEH: You've lost me on this one, LanceWill you please rephrase itso a sleepy Mormon boy can understand the question?Lance Muir wrote: YOU ARE INDEED IFF what you have come to believe is, in reality, not the true gospel. Would you not agree?- Original Message - From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: May 09, 2005 10:04Subject: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Dispersions DAVEH: Why would you consider me anti-Christian, Kevin? Have I beenattacking Jesus? Perry on the other hand has admitted to attacking Mormonism, so theanti-Mormon label would be appropriate, would it not?Kevin Deegan wrote: You are very perceptive, I am a very sensitive guy : )I have no problems with labels a wear a few.I do have a problem when it is a manuever to discredit the messengerwithout dealing with the issues.By the way I believe most of the labels I have posted are of atheological bent (liberal) not such as emotional (ANGRY) orpsychological (mental)So if Perry is ANTI Mormon then you qualify on the same grounds asANTI Christian! -- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain six email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.--Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6)http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have afriend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.--Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain six email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] Anti-Christian
DAVEH: I assume you classify me as such as wellis that correct, Izzy? Do most (non LDS) Christians use such a term (anti-Christian) when describing LDS people like me? Or is it a term coined and used by a few TTers for the most part? ShieldsFamily wrote: God decides who is anti-Christian. It is anyone who is against Christ and His true gospel. That includes JSmith and all his devotees, however misguided. Izzy Matt 12:30"He who is not with Me is against Me From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Dave Hansen Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 8:12 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [TruthTalk] Anti-Christian DAVEH: Sure it does, Lance. Do Christians ever use the term, anti-Christian? Or, is it simply a term Perry/Kevin coined to label me with in an effort to disparage my belief in Jesus? That I would disagree or even argue that another's Christian based theology is misguided would not make me an anti-Christian. Even if I were right in that thinking, it would not make the other person not a Christian. As long as his beliefs are based on Christian principles (rightly or wrongly), he would by dictionary definitions be a Christian. LDS folks did coin the anti-Mormon term, and subsequently defined it in effect as one who actively preaches against and denigrates LDS theology. If Perry/Kevin want to label me anti-Christian, then the similarity does not hold as I do not actively preach against Jesus. From what I remember about your posts, you do not actively denigrate LDS theology. Hence I do not consider you an anti-Mormon. That you don't believe LDS theology does not enter into the equation. It is your intent, as I see it. Perry and Kevin on the other hand have demonstrated their desire to actively fight against LDS theology, hence they meet the qualification of being an anti-Mormon. Do you see the differenceit seems to me to be the intent, as well as the actions. I hope I've not muddled that up as I've tried to explain it. Lance Muir wrote: DH:Intent does play a part. DAVEH: Ahhh, thanx for the explanation, Lance. I would respectfully disagree with you though. If two people sincerely believe they are Christians, in the sense of following the admonitions of Jesus as they understand them, then neither would be an anti-Christian in my opinioneven though one (or perhaps both) are believing/teaching things about Jesus that may not be true. As I see it, an anti-Christian would be one who is defiantly teaching against Jesus, and the term would not apply to one who is simply mistaken in his beliefs about Jesus. Lance Muir wrote: -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] Anti-Christian
DAVEH: Double standard!?!?!?! Do you sincerely believe that, Perry? There are a lot of TTers who I do not consider to be anti-Mormon. At least they have not exhibited any characteristics that would meet my definition. I believe one can disagree with my LDS theology, and not be an anti-Mormon. But when one actively denigrates my beliefs, then I would view him as an anti-Mormon. That is why I consider both you and Kevin to be anti-Mormons, as you have both made a substantial effort to publicly denigrate the LDS Church. Nor do I understand why you think it is politically motivated.I think you are reading much more into this than is logical to assume. By labeling you and Kevin as anti-Mormon, what political effects, benefits or motivations do you see it having in TT? Do you think it is going to sway other TTers one way or another from what they currently believe? Just what do you perceive the political fallout to be? Charles Perry Locke wrote: From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] LDS folks did coin the anti-Mormon term, and subsequently defined it in effect as one who actively preaches against and denigrates LDS theology Right so it is a defense/deflection mechanism to label those that are engaged in any form of criticism of the church in an attempt to dismiss ALL the Criticism since they are just ANTI's Like I said before, it's use is politically motivated. Also, Dave, you said That I would disagree or even argue that another's Christian based theology is misguided would not make me an anti-Christian. That is a double standard to say that I am anti-mormon because I disagree or even argue that another's Christian based theology is misguided. Perry -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Anti-Christian
ShieldsFamily wrote: God decides who is anti-Christian. It is anyone who is against Christ and His true gospel. That includes JSmith and all his devotees, however misguided. Izzy Blaine: Izzy, I hate having to point this out--believe me, it hurts me to say this--but it seems there is something contradictive when you say, first, that God decides who is anti-Christian, then you follow this up by telling us who is anti-Christian. I have to ask--and please take this as a strictly impersonal question--are you God? ___ Get Juno Platinum for as low as $4.97/month! Unlimited Internet Access with 250MB of Email Storage. Visit http://www.juno.com/half to sign up today! -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Anti-Christian
I see. When you disagree with Christians, it is not anti-Christian, but when I disagree with mormons it is anti-mormon. That is a double standard. You say I denigrate your religion. What do you do when you deny the Trinity? Politically motivated means that the term is meant more to defame and inflame than to identify a trait. You admitted such yourself by saying that mormons invented to term to refer to people that disagree with their religion. Perry From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Anti-Christian Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 22:34:52 -0700 DAVEH: Double standard!?!?!?! Do you sincerely believe that, Perry? There are a lot of TTers who I do not consider to be anti-Mormon. At least they have not exhibited any characteristics that would meet my definition. I believe one can disagree with my LDS theology, and not be an anti-Mormon. But when one actively denigrates my beliefs, then I would view him as an anti-Mormon. That is why I consider both you and Kevin to be anti-Mormons, as you have both made a substantial effort to publicly denigrate the LDS Church. Nor do I understand why you think it is politically motivated.I think you are reading much more into this than is logical to assume. By labeling you and Kevin as anti-Mormon, what political effects, benefits or motivations do you see it having in TT? Do you think it is going to sway other TTers one way or another from what they currently believe? Just what do you perceive the political fallout to be? Charles Perry Locke wrote: From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] LDS folks did coin the anti-Mormon term, and subsequently defined it in effect as one who actively preaches against and denigrates LDS theology Right so it is a defense/deflection mechanism to label those that are engaged in any form of criticism of the church in an attempt to dismiss ALL the Criticism since they are just ANTI's Like I said before, it's use is politically motivated. Also, Dave, you said That I would disagree or even argue that another's Christian based theology is misguided would not make me an anti-Christian. That is a double standard to say that I am anti-mormon because I disagree or even argue that another's Christian based theology is misguided. Perry -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Anti-Christian
DAVEH: Nonsense, Kevin. I haven't given it much thought, but off the cuff I would suggest it is the way the criticism is expressed that determines if one is an anti-Mormon or not. I would not consider a TTer who disagrees with me about a point of doctrine to be an anti-Mormon. Nor would I consider one who believes and states that they think JS is a false prophet. Butif someone starts ranting, raving or waving underwear in my faceI would think they would qualify. Kevin Deegan wrote: LDS folks did coin the anti-Mormon term, and subsequently defined it in effect as one who actively preaches against and denigrates LDS theology Right so it is a defense/deflection mechanism to label those that are engaged in any form of criticismof the church in an attempt to dismiss ALL the Criticism since they are just ANTI's Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DAVEH: Sure it does, Lance. Do Christians ever use the term, anti-Christian? Or, is it simply a term Perry/Kevin coined to label me with in an effort to disparage my belief in Jesus? That I would disagree or even argue that another's Christian based theology is misguided would not make me an anti-Christian. Even if I were right in that thinking, it would not make the other person not a Christian. As long as his beliefs are based on Christian principles (rightly or wrongly), he would by dictionary definitions be a Christian. LDS folks did coin the anti-Mormon term, and subsequently defined it in effect as one who actively preaches against and denigrates LDS theology. If Perry/Kevin want to label me anti-Christian, then the similarity does not hold as I do not actively preach against Jesus. From what I remember about your posts, you do not actively denigrate LDS theology. Hence I do not consider you an anti-Mormon. That you don't believe LDS theology does not enter into the equation. It is your intent, as I see it. Perry and Kevin on the other hand have demonstrated their desire to actively fight against LDS theology, hence they meet the qualification of being an anti-Mormon. Do you see the differenceit seems to me to be the intent, as well as the actions. I hope I've not muddled that up as I've tried to explain it. Lance Muir wrote: DH:Intent does play a part. DAVEH: Ahhh, thanx for the explanation, Lance. I would respectfully disagree with you though. If two people sincerely believe they are Christians, in the sense of following the admonitions of Jesus as they understand them, then neither would be an anti-Christian in my opinioneven though one (or perhaps both) are believing/teaching things about Jesus that may not be true. As I see it, an anti-Christian would be one who is defiantly teaching against Jesus, and the term would not apply to one who is simply mistaken in his beliefs about Jesus. Lance Muir wrote: When you believe/teach a Jesus who is other than Who He really is then, you are anti-Christ. This would/could be equally true of some non-Mormon Christians. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
