Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac
Charles Perry Locke wrote: Dave, The LIE I accused you of was making me out to be against mormons posting on TT, DAVEH: ??? Huh? What are you talking about, Perry? when I have NEVER been against that. I felt that you intentionally twisted it around, and made it appear as though I objected to your posting mormon doctrine DAVEH: Where did you get that notion, Perry? Either my memory is much worse than I expected, or you are making this stuff up. AndI think the latter is more likely in this case. when I DO NOT AND NEVER HAVE. DAVEH: Nor have I ever said that I think you objected to me teaching Mormonism, or anything remotely similar. What have you been smokin', Perry??? :-) If you are seriously accusing me of suchdig out the quote that supports your supposition. Until then, please quit whining and misconstruing what I've posted. For a guy who has accused me of being deceitful, and twisting what you've saidyou seem to be creating a mistruth in the way you've twisted this matter, Perry. Go back and read my posts that you consider at fault and see if you didn't misinterpret what I posted. If I am wrong...then post it for everybody to seeand I'll apologize. If you don't find any incriminating evidence, then do you think you might owe me an apology? Or..should we just accept your silence as an admission of wrongly accusing me of posting something I didn't say? I only objected to your teaching (from my perspective) and then denying it. The only thing left to do is for you to acknowledge that you understand that I never objected to your posting motmon doctrine DAVEH: ??? Why should I have to acknowledge such, when I've never posted anything that inferred that you objected to me posting Mormon doctrine! or else to provide evidence to the contrary, and that the only thing I ever objected to (from my perspective) was your denial of your teaching mormon doctrine. DAVEH: And for that, you called me deceitful, did you not? Perry From: "Charles Perry Locke" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 07:31:30 -0700 Dave, I respect your position, and I beleive that we may have settled our first point of contention. While you may not consider some of your responses to be teaching mormonism, I most whole-heartedly believe that some of it is. When you answer questions that are asked, and even when you give mormon references to support it, I do not think of that as "teaching" per se. However, when you ask a Christian what he/she believes, and he/she tells you, and THEN you counter and rebut it with mormon doctrine and references, which you have done in the past, then you ARE teaching mormon doctrine, no marter how subtlekly you do it. So, I can live with that fact that you DO NOT consider that teaching, which allows you to say that you are NOT teaching mormon doctrine, but I will adhere to my belief that you ARE teaching mormon doctrine when you do that. I will set out to resolve our second point of contention in my next post. Perry From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 07:07:02 -0700 DAVEH: If you want to define teaching as responding to questions about my beliefs, then you might have a point, Perry. I view it a bit differently though. To be a teacher, one needs students. For the most part, I don't view TTers as being students wanting to learn. Witness Debbie's comments today From my LDS perspective, Teachers are to teach the gospel by using the Word of God. As you know, for the most partI have refrained from posting latter-day passages on TT, excepting in specific cases when asked to do so or it was appropriate for the discussion. As a courtesy to TTers, I've tried to focus my discussions within the confines of the Bible.which in effect composes less than half of what I believe to be Canon of Scripture. Can I teach Mormonism while ignoring much of what God has said? Not in my opinion. If I wanted to teach Mormonism, you'd be seeing a lot of references to our Standard Works instead of just Biblical quotes. Charles Perry Locke wrote: Dave, do you sometimes teach mormon doctrine on TT? From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pery wrote: Are you on TT to teach mormon doctrine? DAVEH: No, Perryas I've explained before, that was not what motivated me to join TT, nor is it the reason I remain. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] htt
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac
CPL:Paallessseee leave off this
harangue! Can't you get past this? Do we need to be looking for another
moderator? I ain't got a 'snowball's chance' but maybe it'd be me.
Yikes!
- Original Message -
From:
Dave
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: May 28, 2005 13:40
Subject: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon
angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac
Charles Perry Locke wrote:
Dave, The LIE I accused you of was making me
out to be against mormons posting on TT,DAVEH:
??? Huh? What are you talking about, Perry?
when I have NEVER been against that. I felt that you
intentionally twisted it around, and made it appear as though I objected to
your posting mormon doctrineDAVEH: Where did you get that
notion, Perry? Either my memory is much worse than I expected, or you
are making this stuff up. AndI think the latter is more likely in
this case.
when I DO NOT AND NEVER HAVE.DAVEH: Nor have I
ever said that I think you objected to me teaching Mormonism, or
anything remotely similar. What have you been smokin',
Perry??? :-)
If you are seriously accusing me of
suchdig out the quote that supports your supposition. Until then,
please quit whining and misconstruing what I've posted. For a guy
who has accused me of being deceitful, and twisting what you've saidyou
seem to be creating a mistruth in the way you've twisted this matter,
Perry. Go back and read my posts that you consider at fault and see if
you didn't misinterpret what I posted. If I am wrong...then post it for
everybody to seeand I'll apologize. If you don't find any
incriminating evidence, then do you think you might owe me an apology?
Or..should we just accept your silence as an admission of wrongly
accusing me of posting something I didn't say?
I only objected to your teaching (from my perspective) and then
denying it. The only thing left to do is for you to
acknowledge that you understand that I never objected to your posting motmon
doctrineDAVEH: ??? Why should I have to
acknowledge such, when I've never posted anything that inferred that
you objected to me posting Mormon doctrine!
or else to provide evidence to the contrary, and that the only
thing I ever objected to (from my perspective) was your denial of your
teaching mormon doctrine. DAVEH: And for that,
you called me deceitful, did you not?
Perry
From: "Charles Perry Locke" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method
of Teac Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 07:31:30 -0700 Dave,
I respect your position, and I beleive that we may have
settled our first point of contention. While you may not
consider some of your responses to be teaching mormonism, I most
whole-heartedly believe that some of it is. When you answer
questions that are asked, and even when you give mormon references to
support it, I do not think of that as "teaching" per se. However, when you
ask a Christian what he/she believes, and he/she tells you, and THEN you
counter and rebut it with mormon doctrine and references, which you have
done in the past, then you ARE teaching mormon doctrine, no marter how
subtlekly you do it. So, I can live with that fact that you
DO NOT consider that teaching, which allows you to say that you are NOT
teaching mormon doctrine, but I will adhere to my belief that you ARE
teaching mormon doctrine when you do that. I will set out to
resolve our second point of contention in my next post. Perry
From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses
Socratic Method of Teac Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 07:07:02 -0700
DAVEH: If you want to define teaching as responding to
questions about my beliefs, then you might have a point, Perry. I
view it a bit differently though. To be a teacher, one needs
students. For the most part, I don't view TTers as being students
wanting to learn. Witness Debbie's comments today
From my LDS perspective, Teachers are to teach the
gospel by using the Word of God. As you know, for the most
partI have refrained from posting latter-day passages on TT,
excepting in specific cases when asked to do so or it was appropriate
for the discussion. As a courtesy to TTers, I've tried to focus my
discussions within the confines of the Bible.which in effect
composes less than half of what I believe to be Canon of
Scripture. Can I teach Mormonism while i
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac
Lance, Believe me, I am trying to bring this thing to a close as quickly as I can. I have already dispensed with our first point of contention, and am working on the second. Perry From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 13:44:56 -0400 CPL:Paallessseee leave off this harangue! Can't you get past this? Do we need to be looking for another moderator? I ain't got a 'snowball's chance' but maybe it'd be me. Yikes! - Original Message - From: Dave To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 28, 2005 13:40 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac Charles Perry Locke wrote: Dave, The LIE I accused you of was making me out to be against mormons posting on TT, DAVEH: ??? Huh? What are you talking about, Perry? when I have NEVER been against that. I felt that you intentionally twisted it around, and made it appear as though I objected to your posting mormon doctrine DAVEH: Where did you get that notion, Perry? Either my memory is much worse than I expected, or you are making this stuff up. AndI think the latter is more likely in this case. when I DO NOT AND NEVER HAVE. DAVEH: Nor have I ever said that I think you objected to me teaching Mormonism, or anything remotely similar. What have you been smokin', Perry??? :-) If you are seriously accusing me of suchdig out the quote that supports your supposition. Until then, please quit whining and misconstruing what I've posted. For a guy who has accused me of being deceitful, and twisting what you've saidyou seem to be creating a mistruth in the way you've twisted this matter, Perry. Go back and read my posts that you consider at fault and see if you didn't misinterpret what I posted. If I am wrong...then post it for everybody to seeand I'll apologize. If you don't find any incriminating evidence, then do you think you might owe me an apology? Or..should we just accept your silence as an admission of wrongly accusing me of posting something I didn't say? I only objected to your teaching (from my perspective) and then denying it. The only thing left to do is for you to acknowledge that you understand that I never objected to your posting motmon doctrine DAVEH: ??? Why should I have to acknowledge such, when I've never posted anything that inferred that you objected to me posting Mormon doctrine! or else to provide evidence to the contrary, and that the only thing I ever objected to (from my perspective) was your denial of your teaching mormon doctrine. DAVEH: And for that, you called me deceitful, did you not? Perry From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 07:31:30 -0700 Dave, I respect your position, and I beleive that we may have settled our first point of contention. While you may not consider some of your responses to be teaching mormonism, I most whole-heartedly believe that some of it is. When you answer questions that are asked, and even when you give mormon references to support it, I do not think of that as teaching per se. However, when you ask a Christian what he/she believes, and he/she tells you, and THEN you counter and rebut it with mormon doctrine and references, which you have done in the past, then you ARE teaching mormon doctrine, no marter how subtlekly you do it. So, I can live with that fact that you DO NOT consider that teaching, which allows you to say that you are NOT teaching mormon doctrine, but I will adhere to my belief that you ARE teaching mormon doctrine when you do that. I will set out to resolve our second point of contention in my next post. Perry From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 07:07:02 -0700 DAVEH: If you want to define teaching as responding to questions about my beliefs, then you might have a point, Perry. I view it a bit differently though. To be a teacher, one needs students. For the most part, I don't view TTers as being students wanting to learn. Witness Debbie's comments today From my LDS perspective, Teachers are to teach the gospel by using the Word of God. As you know, for the most partI have refrained from posting latter-day passages on TT, excepting in specific
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac
Let's just assume that you are correct in your assumption is quite correct concerning the 'dreaded' DaveH (I actually don't believe you are), can't you just overlook it and, move on? My goodness Perry, it's turning into the mountain/molehill thingy. - Original Message - From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 28, 2005 14:35 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac Lance, Believe me, I am trying to bring this thing to a close as quickly as I can. I have already dispensed with our first point of contention, and am working on the second. Perry From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 13:44:56 -0400 CPL:Paallessseee leave off this harangue! Can't you get past this? Do we need to be looking for another moderator? I ain't got a 'snowball's chance' but maybe it'd be me. Yikes! - Original Message - From: Dave To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 28, 2005 13:40 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac Charles Perry Locke wrote: Dave, The LIE I accused you of was making me out to be against mormons posting on TT, DAVEH: ??? Huh? What are you talking about, Perry? when I have NEVER been against that. I felt that you intentionally twisted it around, and made it appear as though I objected to your posting mormon doctrine DAVEH: Where did you get that notion, Perry? Either my memory is much worse than I expected, or you are making this stuff up. AndI think the latter is more likely in this case. when I DO NOT AND NEVER HAVE. DAVEH: Nor have I ever said that I think you objected to me teaching Mormonism, or anything remotely similar. What have you been smokin', Perry??? :-) If you are seriously accusing me of suchdig out the quote that supports your supposition. Until then, please quit whining and misconstruing what I've posted. For a guy who has accused me of being deceitful, and twisting what you've saidyou seem to be creating a mistruth in the way you've twisted this matter, Perry. Go back and read my posts that you consider at fault and see if you didn't misinterpret what I posted. If I am wrong...then post it for everybody to seeand I'll apologize. If you don't find any incriminating evidence, then do you think you might owe me an apology? Or..should we just accept your silence as an admission of wrongly accusing me of posting something I didn't say? I only objected to your teaching (from my perspective) and then denying it. The only thing left to do is for you to acknowledge that you understand that I never objected to your posting motmon doctrine DAVEH: ??? Why should I have to acknowledge such, when I've never posted anything that inferred that you objected to me posting Mormon doctrine! or else to provide evidence to the contrary, and that the only thing I ever objected to (from my perspective) was your denial of your teaching mormon doctrine. DAVEH: And for that, you called me deceitful, did you not? Perry From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 07:31:30 -0700 Dave, I respect your position, and I beleive that we may have settled our first point of contention. While you may not consider some of your responses to be teaching mormonism, I most whole-heartedly believe that some of it is. When you answer questions that are asked, and even when you give mormon references to support it, I do not think of that as teaching per se. However, when you ask a Christian what he/she believes, and he/she tells you, and THEN you counter and rebut it with mormon doctrine and references, which you have done in the past, then you ARE teaching mormon doctrine, no marter how subtlekly you do it. So, I can live with that fact that you DO NOT consider that teaching, which allows you to say that you are NOT teaching mormon doctrine, but I will adhere to my belief that you ARE teaching mormon doctrine when you do that. I will set out to resolve our second point of contention in my next post. Perry From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac
Are you on TT to teach mormon doctrine? DAVEH: No, Perryas I've explained before, that was not what motivated me to join TT, nor is it the reason I remain. My main focus was and is to learn about your (Protestants in general) beliefsand, I must say...I've learned a lot, though not quite what I expected. It is obvious that despite all your searching you were unable to find any instance of me saying I am NOT TEACHING MORMON DOCTRINE on TT. ...as you inaccurately suggested. (Will there be a forthcoming apology?) What you will find is that I have stated that in addition to satisfying my curiosity about other TTer's beliefs, I also am willing to reciprocate by answering questions TTers might have about my beliefs, and try to correct any misconceptions.or words to that effect. I don't feel that makes me a teacher of Mormon doctrine, but rather I see it as being courteous to those who what to know what floats a Mormon's boat. And please do not misconstrue what I just said, Perry..that simply is not the reason I came to TT. Charles Perry Locke wrote: Are you on TT to teach mormon doctrine? From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 23:41:09 -0700 Charles Perry Locke wrote: David, and Dave, Dave states that he is "not here [on TT] to learn the truth...he is here to learn what protestants think, and why". While not part of his "pat" statement about why he is on TT, he also said that he is not here tio convert anyone to mormonism or to teach mormonism. I believe that Dave is genuine about his stated reasons for being here. Most of the time, Dave answers questions about his faith when asked, and that presents no problem at all. Sometimes Dave will ask someone what "protestants" believe. They will answer him honestly and forthrightly. Dave will then begin to DEBATE what they believe by interject unsolicited mormon doctrine, sometimes socratically. Again, I have no problems with his doing this. However, when I say, "Dave, you have said that you are not here to teach mormon doctrine", which is what he is doing when he introduces mormon doctrine in rebuttal to a question he has asked to "learn what protestants think", he denies it. Now, he may "say" that he is not here to teach mormon doctrine, and that may indeed not by "why" he is here. But, when confronted with the fact that he said he is not here to TEACH mormon doctrine but is, in fact TEACHING mormon doctrine, I have a problem with that. To me it is not being genuine. All Dave has to do is admit that at times he teaches mormon doctrine on TT. It is the fact that he sometimes teaches mormon doctrine, but denies that he does so, that I am complaining about. Furthermore, he has taken my comlpaint and TWISTED it to mean that I object to his teaching mormon doctrine. That has never been my argument. It is a lie for him to twist it that way. He can teach ALL the mormon doctrine he wishes...I would just like for him to stop denying it and admit that is what he is doing. Case in point. Blaine makes no qualms about proudly presenting his mormon beliefs, and that has NEVER bothered me...because BLAINE NEVER MADE THE STATEMENT THAT HE IS NOT TEACHING MORMON DOCTRINE on TT. DAVEH: Nor have I made such a statement, Perry. Now look who's twisting the truth Perry -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac
I have never observed otherwise. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 27, 2005 03:06 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac Are you on TT to teach mormon doctrine? DAVEH: No, Perryas I've explained before, that was not what motivated me to join TT, nor is it the reason I remain. My main focus was and is to learn about your (Protestants in general) beliefsand, I must say...I've learned a lot, though not quite what I expected. It is obvious that despite all your searching you were unable to find any instance of me saying I amNOT TEACHING MORMON DOCTRINE on TTas you inaccurately suggested. (Will there be a forthcoming apology?) What you will find is that I have stated that in addition to satisfying my curiosity about other TTer's beliefs, I also am willing to reciprocate by answering questions TTers might have about my beliefs, and try to correct any misconceptions.or words to that effect. I don't feel that makes me a teacher of Mormon doctrine, but rather I see it as being courteous to those who what to know what floats a Mormon's boat. And please do not misconstrue what I just said, Perry..that simply is not the reason I came to TT.Charles Perry Locke wrote: Are you on TT to teach mormon doctrine? From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 23:41:09 -0700 Charles Perry Locke wrote: David, and Dave, Dave states that he is "not here [on TT] to learn the truth...he is here to learn what protestants think, and why". While not part of his "pat" statement about why he is on TT, he also said that he is not here tio convert anyone to mormonism or to teach mormonism. I believe that Dave is genuine about his stated reasons for being here. Most of the time, Dave answers questions about his faith when asked, and that presents no problem at all. Sometimes Dave will ask someone what "protestants" believe. They will answer him honestly and forthrightly. Dave will then begin to DEBATE what they believe by interject unsolicited mormon doctrine, sometimes socratically. Again, I have no problems with his doing this. However, when I say, "Dave, you have said that you are not here to teach mormon doctrine", which is what he is doing when he introduces mormon doctrine in rebuttal to a question he has asked to "learn what protestants think", he denies it. Now, he may "say" that he is not here to teach mormon doctrine, and that may indeed not by "why" he is here. But, when confronted with the fact that he said he is not here to TEACH mormon doctrine but is, in fact TEACHING mormon doctrine, I have a problem with that. To me it is not being genuine. All Dave has to do is admit that at times he teaches mormon doctrine on TT. It is the fact that he sometimes teaches mormon doctrine, but denies that he does so, that I am complaining about. Furthermore, he has taken my comlpaint and TWISTED it to mean that I object to his teaching mormon doctrine. That has never been my argument. It is a lie for him to twist it that way. He can teach ALL the mormon doctrine he wishes...I would just like for him to stop denying it and admit that is what he is doing. Case in point. Blaine makes no qualms about proudly presenting his mormon beliefs, and that has NEVER bothered me...because BLAINE NEVER MADE THE STATEMENT THAT HE IS NOT TEACHING MORMON DOCTRINE on TT. DAVEH: Nor have I made such a statement, Perry. Now look who's twisting the truth Perry -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac
Charles:Are you angrier at the Mormons than God is? - Original Message - From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 27, 2005 08:57 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac Dave, do you sometimes teach mormon doctrine on TT? From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pery wrote: Are you on TT to teach mormon doctrine? DAVEH: No, Perryas I've explained before, that was not what motivated me to join TT, nor is it the reason I remain. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac
Lance, I am not angry at them. I am pained by their inability to reason outside of Joseph Smith. They do not think for themselves at all. When it comes to spiritual things, they cling to Smithism like they are clinging to a sinking life raft in a storm. By the way, I DO beleive that the clinging thing is great...but you have to be clinging to something real, something that holds water, floats. Anything I post to the mormons that may appear angry stems from my frustration of trying to penetrate the veil erected by Satan around these people. I have no ax to grind with them personally. If I did not care for them I would not go to the effort to try to reach them. It pains me that such wonderful and dedicated people are being led to the slaughter by Satan and are totally oblivious to that fact. The opposite of love is not hate. The opposite of love is indifference. If I did not love them, I would be totally indifferent toward them. Perry From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 09:02:54 -0400 Charles:Are you angrier at the Mormons than God is? - Original Message - From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 27, 2005 08:57 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac Dave, do you sometimes teach mormon doctrine on TT? From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pery wrote: Are you on TT to teach mormon doctrine? DAVEH: No, Perryas I've explained before, that was not what motivated me to join TT, nor is it the reason I remain. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac
Perry:There are some, you and I among them, on TT who similarly 'cling' to that which is simply not so concerning the nature of God and His Gospel. Would you not agree? Does one find penetrating 'that' any easier? Lance - Original Message - From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 27, 2005 09:25 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac Lance, I am not angry at them. I am pained by their inability to reason outside of Joseph Smith. They do not think for themselves at all. When it comes to spiritual things, they cling to Smithism like they are clinging to a sinking life raft in a storm. By the way, I DO beleive that the clinging thing is great...but you have to be clinging to something real, something that holds water, floats. Anything I post to the mormons that may appear angry stems from my frustration of trying to penetrate the veil erected by Satan around these people. I have no ax to grind with them personally. If I did not care for them I would not go to the effort to try to reach them. It pains me that such wonderful and dedicated people are being led to the slaughter by Satan and are totally oblivious to that fact. The opposite of love is not hate. The opposite of love is indifference. If I did not love them, I would be totally indifferent toward them. Perry From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 09:02:54 -0400 Charles:Are you angrier at the Mormons than God is? - Original Message - From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 27, 2005 08:57 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac Dave, do you sometimes teach mormon doctrine on TT? From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pery wrote: Are you on TT to teach mormon doctrine? DAVEH: No, Perryas I've explained before, that was not what motivated me to join TT, nor is it the reason I remain. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac
DAVE: ??? I don't understand your answer, Lance. Are you saying you think I am here to teach Mormon doctrine? Lance Muir wrote: I have never observed otherwise. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 27, 2005 03:06 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac Are you on TT to teach mormon doctrine? DAVEH: No, Perryas I've explained before, that was not what motivated me to join TT, nor is it the reason I remain. My main focus was and is to learn about your (Protestants in general) beliefsand, I must say...I've learned a lot, though not quite what I expected. It is obvious that despite all your searching you were unable to find any instance of me saying I am NOT TEACHING MORMON DOCTRINE on TT. ...as you inaccurately suggested. (Will there be a forthcoming apology?) What you will find is that I have stated that in addition to satisfying my curiosity about other TTer's beliefs, I also am willing to reciprocate by answering questions TTers might have about my beliefs, and try to correct any misconceptions.or words to that effect. I don't feel that makes me a teacher of Mormon doctrine, but rather I see it as being courteous to those who what to know what floats a Mormon's boat. And please do not misconstrue what I just said, Perry..that simply is not the reason I came to TT. Charles Perry Locke wrote: Are you on TT to teach mormon doctrine? From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 23:41:09 -0700 Charles Perry Locke wrote: David, and Dave, Dave states that he is "not here [on TT] to learn the truth...he is here to learn what protestants think, and why". While not part of his "pat" statement about why he is on TT, he also said that he is not here tio convert anyone to mormonism or to teach mormonism. I believe that Dave is genuine about his stated reasons for being here. Most of the time, Dave answers questions about his faith when asked, and that presents no problem at all. Sometimes Dave will ask someone what "protestants" believe. They will answer him honestly and forthrightly. Dave will then begin to DEBATE what they believe by interject unsolicited mormon doctrine, sometimes socratically. Again, I have no problems with his doing this. However, when I say, "Dave, you have said that you are not here to teach mormon doctrine", which is what he is doing when he introduces mormon doctrine in rebuttal to a question he has asked to "learn what protestants think", he denies it. Now, he may "say" that he is not here to teach mormon doctrine, and that may indeed not by "why" he is here. But, when confronted with the fact that he said he is not here to TEACH mormon doctrine but is, in fact TEACHING mormon doctrine, I have a problem with that. To me it is not being genuine. All Dave has to do is admit that at times he teaches mormon doctrine on TT. It is the fact that he sometimes teaches mormon doctrine, but denies that he does so, that I am complaining about. Furthermore, he has taken my comlpaint and TWISTED it to mean that I object to his teaching mormon doctrine. That has never been my argument. It is a lie for him to twist it that way. He can teach ALL the mormon doctrine he wishes...I would just like for him to stop denying it and admit that is what he is doing. Case in point. Blaine makes no qualms about proudly presenting his mormon beliefs, and that has NEVER bothered me...because BLAINE NEVER MADE THE STATEMENT THAT HE IS NOT TEACHING MORMON DOCTRINE on TT. DAVEH: Nor have I made such a statement, Perry. Now look who's twisting the truth Perry -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac
Lance, I agree with you. We all want to be in truth, and cling dearly to and defend that which we believe to be true. I typically have not spent my time trying to penetrate 'that'. My reason is that, first of all, I consider most of those issues to be in house debates. Christians reasoning with Christians about non-critical (in most cases) issues. However, if I saw a brother that I felt was making a mistake that was critical to his/her salvation, I would have to appeal to him and to try to bring him to the light of scrpture. Second, and perhaps more important in my instance, is that I feel drawn and compelled to appeal to mormons to examine their own faith in light of Biblical facts; something very few are willing to do in an honest and intellectual manner. Is this the Holy Spirit drawing me to this purpose? While I cannot positively say that it is (I have heard no voices, nor have I seen any hands writing walls), I have to believe that it is because I pray to God to be shown the truth. I pray that if this compulsion to reach out to momons is of Him that it persist, and that if it is not that he remove it. Perry From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] Perry: There are some, you and I among them, on TT who similarly 'cling' to that which is simply not so concerning the nature of God and His Gospel. Would you not agree? Does one find penetrating 'that' any easier? Lance - Original Message - From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 27, 2005 09:25 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac Lance, I am not angry at them. I am pained by their inability to reason outside of Joseph Smith. They do not think for themselves at all. When it comes to spiritual things, they cling to Smithism like they are clinging to a sinking life raft in a storm. By the way, I DO beleive that the clinging thing is great...but you have to be clinging to something real, something that holds water, floats. Anything I post to the mormons that may appear angry stems from my frustration of trying to penetrate the veil erected by Satan around these people. I have no ax to grind with them personally. If I did not care for them I would not go to the effort to try to reach them. It pains me that such wonderful and dedicated people are being led to the slaughter by Satan and are totally oblivious to that fact. The opposite of love is not hate. The opposite of love is indifference. If I did not love them, I would be totally indifferent toward them. Perry From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 09:02:54 -0400 Charles:Are you angrier at the Mormons than God is? - Original Message - From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 27, 2005 08:57 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac Dave, do you sometimes teach mormon doctrine on TT? From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pery wrote: Are you on TT to teach mormon doctrine? DAVEH: No, Perryas I've explained before, that was not what motivated me to join TT, nor is it the reason I remain. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac
Perry:Then carry on with that to which you 'feel drawn'. I engaged in similar activity for about 18 months some 20+ years ago. I've come to rather different conclusions concerning the intrinsic value of such activity. - Original Message - From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 27, 2005 10:03 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac Lance, I agree with you. We all want to be in truth, and cling dearly to and defend that which we believe to be true. I typically have not spent my time trying to penetrate 'that'. My reason is that, first of all, I consider most of those issues to be in house debates. Christians reasoning with Christians about non-critical (in most cases) issues. However, if I saw a brother that I felt was making a mistake that was critical to his/her salvation, I would have to appeal to him and to try to bring him to the light of scrpture. Second, and perhaps more important in my instance, is that I feel drawn and compelled to appeal to mormons to examine their own faith in light of Biblical facts; something very few are willing to do in an honest and intellectual manner. Is this the Holy Spirit drawing me to this purpose? While I cannot positively say that it is (I have heard no voices, nor have I seen any hands writing walls), I have to believe that it is because I pray to God to be shown the truth. I pray that if this compulsion to reach out to momons is of Him that it persist, and that if it is not that he remove it. Perry From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] Perry: There are some, you and I among them, on TT who similarly 'cling' to that which is simply not so concerning the nature of God and His Gospel. Would you not agree? Does one find penetrating 'that' any easier? Lance - Original Message - From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 27, 2005 09:25 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac Lance, I am not angry at them. I am pained by their inability to reason outside of Joseph Smith. They do not think for themselves at all. When it comes to spiritual things, they cling to Smithism like they are clinging to a sinking life raft in a storm. By the way, I DO beleive that the clinging thing is great...but you have to be clinging to something real, something that holds water, floats. Anything I post to the mormons that may appear angry stems from my frustration of trying to penetrate the veil erected by Satan around these people. I have no ax to grind with them personally. If I did not care for them I would not go to the effort to try to reach them. It pains me that such wonderful and dedicated people are being led to the slaughter by Satan and are totally oblivious to that fact. The opposite of love is not hate. The opposite of love is indifference. If I did not love them, I would be totally indifferent toward them. Perry From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 09:02:54 -0400 Charles:Are you angrier at the Mormons than God is? - Original Message - From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 27, 2005 08:57 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac Dave, do you sometimes teach mormon doctrine on TT? From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pery wrote: Are you on TT to teach mormon doctrine? DAVEH: No, Perryas I've explained before, that was not what motivated me to join TT, nor is it the reason I remain. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac
Dave, I respect your position, and I beleive that we may have settled our first point of contention. While you may not consider some of your responses to be teaching mormonism, I most whole-heartedly believe that some of it is. When you answer questions that are asked, and even when you give mormon references to support it, I do not think of that as teaching per se. However, when you ask a Christian what he/she believes, and he/she tells you, and THEN you counter and rebut it with mormon doctrine and references, which you have done in the past, then you ARE teaching mormon doctrine, no marter how subtlekly you do it. So, I can live with that fact that you DO NOT consider that teaching, which allows you to say that you are NOT teaching mormon doctrine, but I will adhere to my belief that you ARE teaching mormon doctrine when you do that. I will set out to resolve our second point of contention in my next post. Perry From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 07:07:02 -0700 DAVEH: If you want to define teaching as responding to questions about my beliefs, then you might have a point, Perry. I view it a bit differently though. To be a teacher, one needs students. For the most part, I don't view TTers as being students wanting to learn. Witness Debbie's comments today From my LDS perspective, Teachers are to teach the gospel by using the Word of God. As you know, for the most partI have refrained from posting latter-day passages on TT, excepting in specific cases when asked to do so or it was appropriate for the discussion. As a courtesy to TTers, I've tried to focus my discussions within the confines of the Bible.which in effect composes less than half of what I believe to be Canon of Scripture. Can I teach Mormonism while ignoring much of what God has said? Not in my opinion. If I wanted to teach Mormonism, you'd be seeing a lot of references to our Standard Works instead of just Biblical quotes. Charles Perry Locke wrote: Dave, do you sometimes teach mormon doctrine on TT? From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pery wrote: Are you on TT to teach mormon doctrine? DAVEH: No, Perryas I've explained before, that was not what motivated me to join TT, nor is it the reason I remain. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac
Now, just who was it that was speaking of 'Babel' and, interpretation? Ahh, it was I. No Dave, I was agreeing with you saying that THAT WAS NOT WHY YOU WERE ON TT! That is what I meant by saying 'I never thought otherwise'- Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 27, 2005 09:49 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac DAVE: ??? I don't understand your answer, Lance. Are you saying you think I am here to teach Mormon doctrine?Lance Muir wrote: I have never observed otherwise. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 27, 2005 03:06 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac Are you on TT to teach mormon doctrine? DAVEH: No, Perryas I've explained before, that was not what motivated me to join TT, nor is it the reason I remain. My main focus was and is to learn about your (Protestants in general) beliefsand, I must say...I've learned a lot, though not quite what I expected. It is obvious that despite all your searching you were unable to find any instance of me saying I amNOT TEACHING MORMON DOCTRINE on TTas you inaccurately suggested. (Will there be a forthcoming apology?) What you will find is that I have stated that in addition to satisfying my curiosity about other TTer's beliefs, I also am willing to reciprocate by answering questions TTers might have about my beliefs, and try to correct any misconceptions.or words to that effect. I don't feel that makes me a teacher of Mormon doctrine, but rather I see it as being courteous to those who what to know what floats a Mormon's boat. And please do not misconstrue what I just said, Perry..that simply is not the reason I came to TT.Charles Perry Locke wrote: Are you on TT to teach mormon doctrine? From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 23:41:09 -0700 Charles Perry Locke wrote: David, and Dave, Dave states that he is "not here [on TT] to learn the truth...he is here to learn what protestants think, and why". While not part of his "pat" statement about why he is on TT, he also said that he is not here tio convert anyone to mormonism or to teach mormonism. I believe that Dave is genuine about his stated reasons for being here. Most of the time, Dave answers questions about his faith when asked, and that presents no problem at all. Sometimes Dave will ask someone what "protestants" believe. They will answer him honestly and forthrightly. Dave will then begin to DEBATE what they believe by interject unsolicited mormon doctrine, sometimes socratically. Again, I have no problems with his doing this. However, when I say, "Dave, you have said that you are not here to teach mormon doctrine", which is what he is doing when he introduces mormon doctrine in rebuttal to a question he has asked to "learn what protestants think", he denies it. Now, he may "say" that he is not here to teach mormon doctrine, and that may indeed not by "why" he is here. But, when confronted with the fact that he said he is not here to TEACH mormon doctrine but is, in fact TEACHING mormon doctrine, I have a problem with that. To me it is not being genuine. All Dave has to do is admit that at times he teaches mormon doctrine on TT. It is the fact that he sometimes teaches mormon doctrine, but denies that he does so, that I am complaining about. Furthermore, he has taken my comlpaint and TWISTED it to mean that I object to his teaching mormon doctrine. That has never been my argument. It is a lie for him to twist it that way. He can teach ALL the mormon doctrine he wishes...I would just like for him to stop denying it and admit that is what he is doing. Case in point. Blaine makes no qualms about proudly presenting his mormon beliefs, and that has NEVER bothered me...because BLAINE NEVER MADE TH
Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac
Dave, Our second point of contention is that I feel you have repeatedly maligned me by misrepresenting my position with respect to my belief that you indeed are teaching mormon doctrine on TT. I have repeatedly said that I believe TT to be an open forum, and that you, as well as any other member, is free to post their opinons, even if it is teaching their religion. I have NEVER objected to you teaching mormonism on TT, even though you choose not to interpret any of your responses as teaching. The ONLY thing that I have objected to is the fact that you say you are not on TT to teach mormon doctrine, but you frequently engage in that vary practice (from my perspective). But, now that we have resolved that issue, and AGREED TO DISAGREE, that is no longer an issue with me. The LIE I accused you of was making me out to be against mormons posting on TT, when I have NEVER been against that. I felt that you intentionally twisted it around, and made it appear as though I objected to your posting mormon doctrine when I DO NOT AND NEVER HAVE. I only objected to your teaching (from my perspective) and then denying it. The only thing left to do is for you to acknowledge that you understand that I never objected to your posting motmon doctrine or else to provide evidence to the contrary, and that the only thing I ever objected to (from my perspective) was your denial of your teaching mormon doctrine. Perry From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 07:31:30 -0700 Dave, I respect your position, and I beleive that we may have settled our first point of contention. While you may not consider some of your responses to be teaching mormonism, I most whole-heartedly believe that some of it is. When you answer questions that are asked, and even when you give mormon references to support it, I do not think of that as teaching per se. However, when you ask a Christian what he/she believes, and he/she tells you, and THEN you counter and rebut it with mormon doctrine and references, which you have done in the past, then you ARE teaching mormon doctrine, no marter how subtlekly you do it. So, I can live with that fact that you DO NOT consider that teaching, which allows you to say that you are NOT teaching mormon doctrine, but I will adhere to my belief that you ARE teaching mormon doctrine when you do that. I will set out to resolve our second point of contention in my next post. Perry From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 07:07:02 -0700 DAVEH: If you want to define teaching as responding to questions about my beliefs, then you might have a point, Perry. I view it a bit differently though. To be a teacher, one needs students. For the most part, I don't view TTers as being students wanting to learn. Witness Debbie's comments today From my LDS perspective, Teachers are to teach the gospel by using the Word of God. As you know, for the most partI have refrained from posting latter-day passages on TT, excepting in specific cases when asked to do so or it was appropriate for the discussion. As a courtesy to TTers, I've tried to focus my discussions within the confines of the Bible.which in effect composes less than half of what I believe to be Canon of Scripture. Can I teach Mormonism while ignoring much of what God has said? Not in my opinion. If I wanted to teach Mormonism, you'd be seeing a lot of references to our Standard Works instead of just Biblical quotes. Charles Perry Locke wrote: Dave, do you sometimes teach mormon doctrine on TT? From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pery wrote: Are you on TT to teach mormon doctrine? DAVEH: No, Perryas I've explained before, that was not what motivated me to join TT, nor is it the reason I remain. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want
RE: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac
Just keep doing whatever the Lord asks you to do, Perry. Blessings, Iz -Original Message- I pray that if this compulsion to reach out to momons is of Him that it persist, and that if it is not that he remove it. Perry
Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac
DAVEH: So, Perrydo you still believe I am lying about this, or do you view it as a difference of definition? BTW.Roughly how many times do you think I've quoted LDS Scripture, excluding the Bible? Charles Perry Locke wrote: Dave, I respect your position, and I beleive that we may have settled our first point of contention. While you may not consider some of your responses to be teaching mormonism, I most whole-heartedly believe that some of it is. When you answer questions that are asked, and even when you give mormon references to support it, I do not think of that as teaching per se. However, when you ask a Christian what he/she believes, and he/she tells you, and THEN you counter and rebut it with mormon doctrine and references, which you have done in the past, then you ARE teaching mormon doctrine, no marter how subtlekly you do it. So, I can live with that fact that you DO NOT consider that teaching, which allows you to say that you are NOT teaching mormon doctrine, but I will adhere to my belief that you ARE teaching mormon doctrine when you do that. I will set out to resolve our second point of contention in my next post. Perry -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac
From: Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] DAVEH: So, Perrydo you still believe I am lying about this, or do you view it as a difference of definition? I have never said that you were lying about this. In my statement about our second point of contention I said you were lying. That is covered in another post. What I did say is that you are being disingenuous in that you (from my perspective) say you do not teach, but you do. I believe that you have crafted a definition for teaching that excludes your particular style of teaching. So, to answer your question, yes, we disagree on the definition of teaching relative to what you are actually doing when you present mormon doctrine unsolicited. I call it teaching, you do not. BTW.Roughly how many times do you think I've quoted LDS Scripture, excluding the Bible? I have no idea. Maybe none, maybe some. That is not the point. The point is teaching mormon doctrine when you say you aren't. You can do that without ever referencing a single mormon text. Deepak Chopra teaches hinduism without ever referencing any hindu texts. Charles Perry Locke wrote: Dave, I respect your position, and I beleive that we may have settled our first point of contention. While you may not consider some of your responses to be teaching mormonism, I most whole-heartedly believe that some of it is. When you answer questions that are asked, and even when you give mormon references to support it, I do not think of that as teaching per se. However, when you ask a Christian what he/she believes, and he/she tells you, and THEN you counter and rebut it with mormon doctrine and references, which you have done in the past, then you ARE teaching mormon doctrine, no marter how subtlekly you do it. So, I can live with that fact that you DO NOT consider that teaching, which allows you to say that you are NOT teaching mormon doctrine, but I will adhere to my belief that you ARE teaching mormon doctrine when you do that. I will set out to resolve our second point of contention in my next post. Perry -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teac
Are you on TT to teach mormon doctrine? From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 23:41:09 -0700 Charles Perry Locke wrote: David, and Dave, Dave states that he is not here [on TT] to learn the truth...he is here to learn what protestants think, and why. While not part of his pat statement about why he is on TT, he also said that he is not here tio convert anyone to mormonism or to teach mormonism. I believe that Dave is genuine about his stated reasons for being here. Most of the time, Dave answers questions about his faith when asked, and that presents no problem at all. Sometimes Dave will ask someone what protestants believe. They will answer him honestly and forthrightly. Dave will then begin to DEBATE what they believe by interject unsolicited mormon doctrine, sometimes socratically. Again, I have no problems with his doing this. However, when I say, Dave, you have said that you are not here to teach mormon doctrine, which is what he is doing when he introduces mormon doctrine in rebuttal to a question he has asked to learn what protestants think, he denies it. Now, he may say that he is not here to teach mormon doctrine, and that may indeed not by why he is here. But, when confronted with the fact that he said he is not here to TEACH mormon doctrine but is, in fact TEACHING mormon doctrine, I have a problem with that. To me it is not being genuine. All Dave has to do is admit that at times he teaches mormon doctrine on TT. It is the fact that he sometimes teaches mormon doctrine, but denies that he does so, that I am complaining about. Furthermore, he has taken my comlpaint and TWISTED it to mean that I object to his teaching mormon doctrine. That has never been my argument. It is a lie for him to twist it that way. He can teach ALL the mormon doctrine he wishes...I would just like for him to stop denying it and admit that is what he is doing. Case in point. Blaine makes no qualms about proudly presenting his mormon beliefs, and that has NEVER bothered me...because BLAINE NEVER MADE THE STATEMENT THAT HE IS NOT TEACHING MORMON DOCTRINE on TT. DAVEH: Nor have I made such a statement, Perry. Now look who's twisting the truth Perry -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
