Re: [TV orNotTV] Debate II

[PGage]

Well, I think it has been established a long time ago that we use the term
"debate" to refer to these events, even if they are not quite Oxford style.
I was part of a debating team in my youth, but I don't sweat the
terminology.

But I disagree with the claim that viewers did not get much information
about the two candidates; on the contrary, for 90 minutes, if you did not
know anything about these two people, you would have learned quite a bit
about both of them (Health Care policy, Syria Policy, Tax Policy). What is
hard to believe is that any serious voter by this late date does not
already know almost everything there is to know about their positions.

On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 10:10 PM, Kevin M.  wrote:

> It was not a debate. The moderators didn't moderate. Candidates were not
> made to answer the questions asked. Candidates (one significantly more than
> the other) interrupted each other. The audience interrupted repeatedly. As
> theater, I suppose it was entertaining; as a debate, voters would've gotten
> more information had both candidates simply each sent out a single Tweet.
>
> In short I humbly disagree.
>
> On Sunday, October 9, 2016, PGage  wrote:
>
>> Without getting too much into how the two participants did, I thought the
>> two moderators, Anderson Cooper and Martha Raddatz, really did a good job.
>> That thought forced me to ask myself what my criteria for a good debate
>> moderator were. In the past I probably leaned towards wanting the least
>> intrusive moderator possible, who allowed the participants significant
>> leeway in violating agreed upon rules and tried to avoid making themselves
>> the story. Arguably that has never been a good model for a TV presidential
>> debate moderator, but almost certainly, with Trump in play, it now is not.
>> Cooper and Raddatz both had to work hard tonight, and had to inject
>> themselves into things quite a bit, but I think it resulted in a much more
>> fair and substantive exchange - and they actually covered quite a bit of
>> ground. I suspect Trump partisans are pissed, but they oughtn't be; the
>> moderators (and here I suppose I am getting into my view of how the
>> participants did) probably saved the debate for Trump by shutting down
>> several of his more unstable and incoherent rants during the first third of
>> the debate, enforcing time limits, and allowing more questions to be asked.
>> Trump did much better in the last two thirds of the debate - I would say
>> that part of the show was basically a draw, after coming across as a mad
>> man in the first half hour. If the perception of this debate is that it was
>> close or a draw, it will only be because of the hard work and
>> professionalism of the two moderators. I also wonder if it helps to have
>> two moderators work this kind of circus.
>>
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>
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Re: [TV orNotTV] Debate II

[Kevin M.]

It was not a debate. The moderators didn't moderate. Candidates were not
made to answer the questions asked. Candidates (one significantly more than
the other) interrupted each other. The audience interrupted repeatedly. As
theater, I suppose it was entertaining; as a debate, voters would've gotten
more information had both candidates simply each sent out a single Tweet.

In short I humbly disagree.

On Sunday, October 9, 2016, PGage  wrote:

> Without getting too much into how the two participants did, I thought the
> two moderators, Anderson Cooper and Martha Raddatz, really did a good job.
> That thought forced me to ask myself what my criteria for a good debate
> moderator were. In the past I probably leaned towards wanting the least
> intrusive moderator possible, who allowed the participants significant
> leeway in violating agreed upon rules and tried to avoid making themselves
> the story. Arguably that has never been a good model for a TV presidential
> debate moderator, but almost certainly, with Trump in play, it now is not.
> Cooper and Raddatz both had to work hard tonight, and had to inject
> themselves into things quite a bit, but I think it resulted in a much more
> fair and substantive exchange - and they actually covered quite a bit of
> ground. I suspect Trump partisans are pissed, but they oughtn't be; the
> moderators (and here I suppose I am getting into my view of how the
> participants did) probably saved the debate for Trump by shutting down
> several of his more unstable and incoherent rants during the first third of
> the debate, enforcing time limits, and allowing more questions to be asked.
> Trump did much better in the last two thirds of the debate - I would say
> that part of the show was basically a draw, after coming across as a mad
> man in the first half hour. If the perception of this debate is that it was
> close or a draw, it will only be because of the hard work and
> professionalism of the two moderators. I also wonder if it helps to have
> two moderators work this kind of circus.
>
> --
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[TV orNotTV] Debate II

[PGage]

Without getting too much into how the two participants did, I thought the
two moderators, Anderson Cooper and Martha Raddatz, really did a good job.
That thought forced me to ask myself what my criteria for a good debate
moderator were. In the past I probably leaned towards wanting the least
intrusive moderator possible, who allowed the participants significant
leeway in violating agreed upon rules and tried to avoid making themselves
the story. Arguably that has never been a good model for a TV presidential
debate moderator, but almost certainly, with Trump in play, it now is not.
Cooper and Raddatz both had to work hard tonight, and had to inject
themselves into things quite a bit, but I think it resulted in a much more
fair and substantive exchange - and they actually covered quite a bit of
ground. I suspect Trump partisans are pissed, but they oughtn't be; the
moderators (and here I suppose I am getting into my view of how the
participants did) probably saved the debate for Trump by shutting down
several of his more unstable and incoherent rants during the first third of
the debate, enforcing time limits, and allowing more questions to be asked.
Trump did much better in the last two thirds of the debate - I would say
that part of the show was basically a draw, after coming across as a mad
man in the first half hour. If the perception of this debate is that it was
close or a draw, it will only be because of the hard work and
professionalism of the two moderators. I also wonder if it helps to have
two moderators work this kind of circus.

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[TV orNotTV] Re: Was thinking what was your station's daytime schedule back in the day?

[stannc]

I grew up in the New York Metro area. If it wasn't okayed by the mother ship, 
it didn't get on. 

It was years before I understood what "on most of these CBS stations" meant. 

-Stan 

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Re: Quickie Review: Timeless

[PGage]

I so much wanted to love this show, like Kevin I am an alt history fan. But
the first episode did not strike me as being very smart or interested in
exploring the genre. Instead I get a bad feeling this is just going to be
something like "The Blacklist" or "Blindspot" transposed into the alt
history form. I hope I am wrong.

On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 5:59 PM, Kevin M.  wrote:

>
>
> On Sunday, October 9, 2016, Bob Jersey  wrote:
>
>>
>> Kevin M:
>>>
>>> Voyagers meets 7 Days meets Quantum Leap meets Peabody's Improbable
>>> History
>>>
>>> Worse than we made it out to be here...
>>
>
> The only potential upside to the series is that I enjoy books about
> alternative histories (and the modern day repercussions), and there is
> potential for that in this series based on the pilot. But I will wait until
> the series has completed at least a season before seeing if that is
> emphasized or if it is the (to me) less interesting and more formulaic
> put-right-what-once-went-wrong premise.
>
>
>
>> Has anyone else noticed Max Headroom getting a lot of guest starring
>>> roles the last few years?
>>>
>>> Good for him... better that than being lied about as dead...
>>
>> B
>>
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Re: [TV orNotTV] Will Billy Bush be hurt by Trump's vulgar comments about women?

[PGage]

Have we discussed here the twitter thread where somebody asked Mark Cuban
to pay the $5 M penalty that any employee would have to pay for making
footage available where Trump uses the N-word in Apprentice outtakes?
Apparently Burnett is a big Trump supporter and has vowed to hold everyone
accountable to the confidentiality clause he made them sign.

On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 6:21 PM, Bob Jersey  wrote:

>
> Adam Bowie, to Kevin M and Tom Wolper, in part:
>>
>> The Apprentice footage belongs to Mark Burnett right? Shouldn't he right
>> now be shopping NBC an Apprentice Outtakes special? And yes, I realise that
>> must mean some acknowledgement of how Trump behaved at the time.
>>
>>
>> Burnett has been fighting efforts
> 
> to release any Trump outtakes (CBS News link, but largely from Aypee).
>
> B
>
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Re: [TV orNotTV] Will Billy Bush be hurt by Trump's vulgar comments about women?

[Bob Jersey]

Adam Bowie, to Kevin M and Tom Wolper, in part:
>
> The Apprentice footage belongs to Mark Burnett right? Shouldn't he right 
> now be shopping NBC an Apprentice Outtakes special? And yes, I realise that 
> must mean some acknowledgement of how Trump behaved at the time.
>
>
> Burnett has been fighting efforts 

 
to release any Trump outtakes (CBS News link, but largely from Aypee).

B

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Sounds like the zebras or CBS goofed up...

[Jim Ellwanger]

> On Oct 9, 2016, at 5:54 PM, daniel anderson  
> wrote:
> 
> That's the first time i've seen that in a while. The league is quite strict 
> on that, as you said, so maybe the referees forgot there was a promo still 
> running.

The on-field officials don’t specifically “know” there’s a promo running. 
There’s an official who stands on the sidelines who’s in communication with the 
control truck, and he’s the person the referee looks at for signals on whether 
the network is in a commercial break or not — he wears bright orange gloves to 
make him and his signals easier to spot on the sidelines; the usual signal for 
“we’re in commercial” is that he puts one arm across his chest.

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[TV orNotTV] Re: Quickie Review: Timeless

[Kevin M.]

On Sunday, October 9, 2016, Bob Jersey  wrote:

>
> Kevin M:
>>
>> Voyagers meets 7 Days meets Quantum Leap meets Peabody's Improbable
>> History
>>
>> Worse than we made it out to be here...
>

The only potential upside to the series is that I enjoy books about
alternative histories (and the modern day repercussions), and there is
potential for that in this series based on the pilot. But I will wait until
the series has completed at least a season before seeing if that is
emphasized or if it is the (to me) less interesting and more formulaic
put-right-what-once-went-wrong premise.



> Has anyone else noticed Max Headroom getting a lot of guest starring roles
>> the last few years?
>>
>> Good for him... better that than being lied about as dead...
>
> B
>
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[TV orNotTV] Re: Sounds like the zebras or CBS goofed up...

[daniel anderson]

That's the first time i've seen that in a while. The league is quite strict 
on that, as you said, so maybe the referees forgot there was a promo still 
running.

On Sunday, October 9, 2016 at 8:16:12 PM UTC-4, daniel anderson wrote:
>
> CBS missed part or the Rams TD in the Rams/Bills game-it seems that the 
> zebras jumped a promo by a second or two...
>

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Will Billy Bush be hurt by Trump's vulgar comments about women?

[Tom Wolper]

On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 8:47 PM, Steve Timko  wrote:

> You wonder, though, about statute of limitations for offenses. For
> instance, there is a correspondent for a major network who slipped
> drinks to underage college students at a journalism conference in
> rural Nevada in the late 1980s in an apparent attempt to sleep with
> them. Could he be sacked today for something that happened almost 30
> years ago? It's a longer period, but a more serious offense.
>

A statute of limitations applies only to prosecution, not employment. The
morals clause of an employment contract will call for termination in case
the employee brings shame to the company. If the shame happens in the
present it doesn't matter that the act occurred in the distant past.

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Will Billy Bush be hurt by Trump's vulgar comments about women?

[Steve Timko]

You wonder, though, about statute of limitations for offenses. For
instance, there is a correspondent for a major network who slipped
drinks to underage college students at a journalism conference in
rural Nevada in the late 1980s in an apparent attempt to sleep with
them. Could he be sacked today for something that happened almost 30
years ago? It's a longer period, but a more serious offense.

On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 5:36 PM, PGage  wrote:
> Here is the LAT story:
> http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/cotown/la-et-st-bush-trump-today-20161008-snap-story.html?utm_source=feedburner_medium=feed_campaign=Feed%3A+MoneyCompany+(Money+%26+Company)
>
> I never understood the appeal of BB, and would support firing him just for
> being him. I would feel better about disciplining him for this incident if
> they specifically cited his role in facilitating the kiss between Trump and
> the Soap actress, after we heard their disgusting conversation about it.
> That part is not just offensive speech by Bush, but an abuse of his role as
> a host on the show.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 5:18 PM, Steve Timko  wrote:
>>
>> NBC suspends 'Today' show's Billy Bush for role on Trump tape
>> NEW YORK (AP) - NBC suspends 'Today' show's Billy Bush for role on Trump
>> tape.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 3:59 PM, Steve Timko  wrote:
>> > NBC mum on how Billy Bush will resurface on the air
>> >
>> > By DAVID BAUDER
>> > AP Television Writer
>> > NEW YORK (AP) - NBC "Today" show personality Billy Bush will likely
>> > have some explaining to do when he resurfaces on the air.
>> > When that will be isn't clear. An NBC News spokesman said Sunday Bush
>> > will not appear Monday as host of the "Today" third hour at 9 a.m., a
>> > job he's held for two months. Further details were not provided.
>> > Bush is the other person on a 2005 tape of Republican presidential
>> > candidate Donald Trump bragging about kissing, groping and trying to
>> > have sex with women who weren't his wife. Bush laughed at some of
>> > Trump's comments, later encouraging an actress to hug Trump.
>> > The 44-year-old Bush has been brutalized on his own Facebook page
>> > since the tape surfaced on Friday. He was working entertainment news
>> > show "Access Hollywood" at the time.
>>
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[TV orNotTV] Re: Sounds like the zebras or CBS goofed up...

[Bob Jersey]

daniel anderson wrote:
>
> CBS missed part or the Rams TD in the Rams/Bills game-it seems that the 
> zebras jumped a promo by a second or two...
>

League has been extra-strict about that in the last ten or more years... 
but the highlights always make it to websites and highlight shows...

B
 

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[TV orNotTV] Re: Quickie Review: Timeless

[Bob Jersey]

Kevin M:
>
> Voyagers meets 7 Days meets Quantum Leap meets Peabody's Improbable History
>
> Worse than we made it out to be here...

Has anyone else noticed Max Headroom getting a lot of guest starring roles 
> the last few years?
>
> Good for him... better that than being lied about as dead...

B

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Will Billy Bush be hurt by Trump's vulgar comments about women?

[PGage]

Here is the LAT story:
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/cotown/la-et-st-bush-trump-today-20161008-snap-story.html?utm_source=feedburner_medium=feed_campaign=Feed%3A+MoneyCompany+(Money+%26+Company)

I never understood the appeal of BB, and would support firing him just for
being him. I would feel better about disciplining him for this incident if
they specifically cited his role in facilitating the kiss between Trump and
the Soap actress, after we heard their disgusting conversation about it.
That part is not just offensive speech by Bush, but an abuse of his role as
a host on the show.



On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 5:18 PM, Steve Timko  wrote:

> NBC suspends 'Today' show's Billy Bush for role on Trump tape
> NEW YORK (AP) - NBC suspends 'Today' show's Billy Bush for role on Trump
> tape.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 3:59 PM, Steve Timko  wrote:
> > NBC mum on how Billy Bush will resurface on the air
> >
> > By DAVID BAUDER
> > AP Television Writer
> > NEW YORK (AP) - NBC "Today" show personality Billy Bush will likely
> > have some explaining to do when he resurfaces on the air.
> > When that will be isn't clear. An NBC News spokesman said Sunday Bush
> > will not appear Monday as host of the "Today" third hour at 9 a.m., a
> > job he's held for two months. Further details were not provided.
> > Bush is the other person on a 2005 tape of Republican presidential
> > candidate Donald Trump bragging about kissing, groping and trying to
> > have sex with women who weren't his wife. Bush laughed at some of
> > Trump's comments, later encouraging an actress to hug Trump.
> > The 44-year-old Bush has been brutalized on his own Facebook page
> > since the tape surfaced on Friday. He was working entertainment news
> > show "Access Hollywood" at the time.
>
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Re: [TV orNotTV] Will Billy Bush be hurt by Trump's vulgar comments about women?

[Steve Timko]

NBC suspends 'Today' show's Billy Bush for role on Trump tape
NEW YORK (AP) - NBC suspends 'Today' show's Billy Bush for role on Trump tape.



On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 3:59 PM, Steve Timko  wrote:
> NBC mum on how Billy Bush will resurface on the air
>
> By DAVID BAUDER
> AP Television Writer
> NEW YORK (AP) - NBC "Today" show personality Billy Bush will likely
> have some explaining to do when he resurfaces on the air.
> When that will be isn't clear. An NBC News spokesman said Sunday Bush
> will not appear Monday as host of the "Today" third hour at 9 a.m., a
> job he's held for two months. Further details were not provided.
> Bush is the other person on a 2005 tape of Republican presidential
> candidate Donald Trump bragging about kissing, groping and trying to
> have sex with women who weren't his wife. Bush laughed at some of
> Trump's comments, later encouraging an actress to hug Trump.
> The 44-year-old Bush has been brutalized on his own Facebook page
> since the tape surfaced on Friday. He was working entertainment news
> show "Access Hollywood" at the time.

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[TV orNotTV] Sounds like the zebras or CBS goofed up...

[daniel anderson]

CBS missed part or the Rams TD in the Rams/Bills game-it seems that the 
zebras jumped a promo by a second or two...

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[TV orNotTV] Re: California/OSHA may require condoms in adult oriented entertainment

[Kevin M.]

On Sunday, October 9, 2016, Jim Ellwanger  wrote:

>
> On Oct 9, 2016, at 3:16 PM, Doug Eastick  > wrote:
>
> NoHo Starbucks?   What's NoHo mean?
>
> North Hollywood.
>
> There must still be SOME adult film production happening in L.A., since
> there’s an actress who plays in a downtown L.A.-based pinball league with
> me.
>

I never claimed porn had entirely left the Valley. I even ran into a
recognizable figure from the industry a couple weekends ago.

But of course, I only watch porn for the articles


>
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Re: [TV orNotTV] Will Billy Bush be hurt by Trump's vulgar comments about women?

[Steve Timko]

NBC mum on how Billy Bush will resurface on the air

By DAVID BAUDER
AP Television Writer
NEW YORK (AP) - NBC "Today" show personality Billy Bush will likely
have some explaining to do when he resurfaces on the air.
When that will be isn't clear. An NBC News spokesman said Sunday Bush
will not appear Monday as host of the "Today" third hour at 9 a.m., a
job he's held for two months. Further details were not provided.
Bush is the other person on a 2005 tape of Republican presidential
candidate Donald Trump bragging about kissing, groping and trying to
have sex with women who weren't his wife. Bush laughed at some of
Trump's comments, later encouraging an actress to hug Trump.
The 44-year-old Bush has been brutalized on his own Facebook page
since the tape surfaced on Friday. He was working entertainment news
show "Access Hollywood" at the time.

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Re: California/OSHA may require condoms in adult oriented entertainment

[Jim Ellwanger]

> On Oct 9, 2016, at 3:16 PM, Doug Eastick  wrote:
> 
> NoHo Starbucks?   What's NoHo mean?
> 
North Hollywood.

There must still be SOME adult film production happening in L.A., since there’s 
an actress who plays in a downtown L.A.-based pinball league with me.

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Re: California/OSHA may require condoms in adult oriented entertainment

[Doug Eastick]

NoHo Starbucks?   What's NoHo mean?

On Sun, Oct 9, 2016, 5:15 PM Kevin M.  wrote:

> Vegas has spent the past couple years positioning itself as the go-to
> destination for adult film production. Next to no regulation or oversight.
> Several annual conventions and award ceremonies dedicated to the adult film
> and fetish model communities take place there. Regardless of how
> Californians vote, the Valley is already changing. You are now more likely
> to find a "YouTube star" at a NoHo Starbucks than someone from adult films.
> Which is yet another reason to avoid a NoHo Starbucks.
>
> On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 7:49 AM, Bob Jersey  wrote:
>
>
> Kevin M., May 29, 2011:
>
> I tried to pick a subject heading that would bypass the spam filters,
> but the weblink to the article will probably cause problems.
>
> 
>
> This could be a major blow to the industry, making things even harder
> for them. It could suck the life out of the business, which has
> suffered from flacid sales. Leave it to the government to be so head
> strong and cock sure. Industry heads will be locked together in
> private meetings in order to come to a resolution that will satisfy
> everyone.
>
> 
>
> [long-dead Yahoo News Aypee piece]
>
> 
>
> As for me, I hope the measure passes and the industry vacates the San
> Fernando Valley. I've been trying to find affordable housing, and if
> all the adult entertainers were to leave -- well -- there would be a
> big hole to be filled.
>
> 
>
>
> All these years later, all Golden State voters will be asked Nov 8th
> whether Cal-OSHA should step up statewide enforcement of this rule, to
> which the agency has already expressed disinterest
> 
> apart from the existing LA rule earlier this year (KQED link)... the money
> on the respective sides is far in favor of passage even though both sides
> of the political aisle are opposed... SJ Mercury News
> 
> (few-weeks-old link)
>
> B
>
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>
>
>
> --
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>
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Re: [TV orNotTV] Re: California/OSHA may require condoms in adult oriented entertainment

[Kevin M.]

Vegas has spent the past couple years positioning itself as the go-to
destination for adult film production. Next to no regulation or oversight.
Several annual conventions and award ceremonies dedicated to the adult film
and fetish model communities take place there. Regardless of how
Californians vote, the Valley is already changing. You are now more likely
to find a "YouTube star" at a NoHo Starbucks than someone from adult films.
Which is yet another reason to avoid a NoHo Starbucks.

On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 7:49 AM, Bob Jersey  wrote:

>
> Kevin M., May 29, 2011:
>>
>> I tried to pick a subject heading that would bypass the spam filters,
>> but the weblink to the article will probably cause problems.
>>
>> 
>>
>> This could be a major blow to the industry, making things even harder
>> for them. It could suck the life out of the business, which has
>> suffered from flacid sales. Leave it to the government to be so head
>> strong and cock sure. Industry heads will be locked together in
>> private meetings in order to come to a resolution that will satisfy
>> everyone.
>>
>> 
>>
>> [long-dead Yahoo News Aypee piece]
>>
>> 
>>
>> As for me, I hope the measure passes and the industry vacates the San
>> Fernando Valley. I've been trying to find affordable housing, and if
>> all the adult entertainers were to leave -- well -- there would be a
>> big hole to be filled.
>>
>> 
>>
>>
> All these years later, all Golden State voters will be asked Nov 8th
> whether Cal-OSHA should step up statewide enforcement of this rule, to
> which the agency has already expressed disinterest
> 
> apart from the existing LA rule earlier this year (KQED link)... the money
> on the respective sides is far in favor of passage even though both sides
> of the political aisle are opposed... SJ Mercury News
> 
> (few-weeks-old link)
>
> B
>
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RE: [TV orNotTV] Will Billy Bush be hurt by Trump's vulgar comments about women?

[Brad Beam]

-Original Message-
From: tvornottv@googlegroups.com [mailto:tvornottv@googlegroups.com] On Behalf 
Of Steve Timko

>Politico reports that Billy Bush's voicemail tells callers he's making America 
>great again.
>http://www.politico.com/blogs/on-media/2016/10/billy-bushs-voicemail-making-america-great-again-229417

>From The New York Times, "How NBC Finished Second on the Trump Video Story".
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/10/business/media/how-nbc-finished-second-on-the-trump-video-story.html

 _  _
|_>|_>  Brad Beam- Belle WV
|_>|_>  http://www.facebook.com/74bmw

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Will Billy Bush be hurt by Trump's vulgar comments about women?

[Steve Timko]

Politico reports that Billy Bush's voicemail tells callers he's making
America great again.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/on-media/2016/10/billy-bushs-voicemail-making-america-great-again-229417

On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 9:55 AM, Steve Timko  wrote:
> As a long-time journalist, I can say that even powerful campaigns
> can't micromanage when leaks bubble to the surface. It can be like it
> is in the movies, but often it's not.
> There's something odd about waiting this long to find the tape. Access
> Hollywood said they were inspired to look after some AP stories about
> crude remarks Trump has made about women. It still doesn't pass the
> smell test.
> This could be great theater tonight. Trump may have worn out his
> appeal to the point that he's politically impotent. And Hillary
> Clinton may have some great zingers.
>
> On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 8:49 AM, PGage  wrote:
>> On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 6:17 PM, Tom Wolper  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> 2. The campaign that Hillary Clinton is running is amazing. I think it is
>>> better than the campaign Obama ran in 2008 but I would need to see a
>>> post-election wrapup to decide. The campaign was put together in 2015 to run
>>> uphill against the traditional impulse to change parties in the White House
>>> after 8 years. That they got to run against a circus act with a fractured
>>> party behind him was a gift, but they still go full out to win. I have no
>>> idea how long the Clinton campaign has been sitting on this tape but they
>>> waited for the best time to leak it to the Washington Post and it was
>>> yesterday. In my Twitter feed last evening I saw a retweet from an anti-GOP
>>> consultant saying that there is much worse out there. So the Clinton
>>> campaign will release it in dribs and drabs over the coming month. And today
>>> on Twitter I see that we should expect to see ads showing GOP candidates in
>>> 2018 and 2020 announcing their support for Trump along with the worst of
>>> these leaks.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am not sure how literal you are being about your #2 here, but I have to
>> dispute it, in several ways:
>>
>> First, has it really been stablished that this story came from the Clinton
>> campaign in any way? The WaPo itself published a story yesterday that the
>> Access Hollywood people found the clip themselves (apparently everyone was
>> archives of Trump footage is going through it looking for material). NBC,
>> which apparently owns Access Hollywood, made them sit on the story for 4
>> days while their lawyers worried over it (for no obvious reason, except they
>> had already been bullied by threatened Trump lawsuits). Eventually the WaPo
>> reporter got an anonymous tip about the footage, confirmed it, and they ran
>> the story within a day. NBC got wind that the WaPo story was coming, but
>> rather than putting its already produced story out first, let the WaPo break
>> it, then published their story on MSNBC.com immediately after. It is
>> possible the anonymous source that tipped WaPo was from the Clinton campaign
>> I suppose, but NBC seems to be assuming it is someone who works at Access
>> Hollywood. See:
>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/nbc-delayed-publication-of-lewd-trump-tape-because-of-lawsuit-fears/2016/10/08/a3c6850e-8db9-11e6-875e-2c1bfe943b66_story.html
>>
>> Second, it is not clear to me that, even if the Clinton campaign did have
>> this story, there would have been any real reason to hold it until last
>> Friday. Their big lead melted away all through August and September; I think
>> it would be almost impossible for any campaign to hold a story like this
>> while in free fall, on the theory that it would be more effective  at the
>> end of the first week of October. If anything you might think they would
>> have released it a few days before Debate #1, which was so very crucial for
>> the Clinton campaign. Indeed, the story (which a friend of mine is calling
>> "BushGate", which I find amusing but perhaps inappropriate) has created a
>> perfect storm in large part because of Hillary raising the Machado issue at
>> Debate 1, and Trump's almost suicidal response to it in the days after the
>> debate, and then Pence's absurd denials during the VP Debate. That is a
>> string of events that would have been pretty much impossible to anticipate
>> in the weeks or months before the first Debate.
>>
>> Third, I have not seen an anti-GOP consultant predict more and worse to
>> come; what I saw was Hugh Hewitt (a very influential and very conservative
>> pro-GOP blogger) tweet: "For the benefit of the country, the party and his
>> family, and for his own good, @realDonaldTrump should withdraw. More and
>> worse oppo coming". "Oppo" here implies "Opposition Research", or dirt dug
>> out and manipulated by political opponents; but again, I have not seen
>> evidence to support that this story came from Trump's opposition, or even
>> any reports implying such.
>>
>> Finally, I 

Re: [TV orNotTV] Will Billy Bush be hurt by Trump's vulgar comments about women?

[Steve Timko]

As a long-time journalist, I can say that even powerful campaigns
can't micromanage when leaks bubble to the surface. It can be like it
is in the movies, but often it's not.
There's something odd about waiting this long to find the tape. Access
Hollywood said they were inspired to look after some AP stories about
crude remarks Trump has made about women. It still doesn't pass the
smell test.
This could be great theater tonight. Trump may have worn out his
appeal to the point that he's politically impotent. And Hillary
Clinton may have some great zingers.

On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 8:49 AM, PGage  wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 6:17 PM, Tom Wolper  wrote:
>>
>>
>> 2. The campaign that Hillary Clinton is running is amazing. I think it is
>> better than the campaign Obama ran in 2008 but I would need to see a
>> post-election wrapup to decide. The campaign was put together in 2015 to run
>> uphill against the traditional impulse to change parties in the White House
>> after 8 years. That they got to run against a circus act with a fractured
>> party behind him was a gift, but they still go full out to win. I have no
>> idea how long the Clinton campaign has been sitting on this tape but they
>> waited for the best time to leak it to the Washington Post and it was
>> yesterday. In my Twitter feed last evening I saw a retweet from an anti-GOP
>> consultant saying that there is much worse out there. So the Clinton
>> campaign will release it in dribs and drabs over the coming month. And today
>> on Twitter I see that we should expect to see ads showing GOP candidates in
>> 2018 and 2020 announcing their support for Trump along with the worst of
>> these leaks.
>
>
>
> I am not sure how literal you are being about your #2 here, but I have to
> dispute it, in several ways:
>
> First, has it really been stablished that this story came from the Clinton
> campaign in any way? The WaPo itself published a story yesterday that the
> Access Hollywood people found the clip themselves (apparently everyone was
> archives of Trump footage is going through it looking for material). NBC,
> which apparently owns Access Hollywood, made them sit on the story for 4
> days while their lawyers worried over it (for no obvious reason, except they
> had already been bullied by threatened Trump lawsuits). Eventually the WaPo
> reporter got an anonymous tip about the footage, confirmed it, and they ran
> the story within a day. NBC got wind that the WaPo story was coming, but
> rather than putting its already produced story out first, let the WaPo break
> it, then published their story on MSNBC.com immediately after. It is
> possible the anonymous source that tipped WaPo was from the Clinton campaign
> I suppose, but NBC seems to be assuming it is someone who works at Access
> Hollywood. See:
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/nbc-delayed-publication-of-lewd-trump-tape-because-of-lawsuit-fears/2016/10/08/a3c6850e-8db9-11e6-875e-2c1bfe943b66_story.html
>
> Second, it is not clear to me that, even if the Clinton campaign did have
> this story, there would have been any real reason to hold it until last
> Friday. Their big lead melted away all through August and September; I think
> it would be almost impossible for any campaign to hold a story like this
> while in free fall, on the theory that it would be more effective  at the
> end of the first week of October. If anything you might think they would
> have released it a few days before Debate #1, which was so very crucial for
> the Clinton campaign. Indeed, the story (which a friend of mine is calling
> "BushGate", which I find amusing but perhaps inappropriate) has created a
> perfect storm in large part because of Hillary raising the Machado issue at
> Debate 1, and Trump's almost suicidal response to it in the days after the
> debate, and then Pence's absurd denials during the VP Debate. That is a
> string of events that would have been pretty much impossible to anticipate
> in the weeks or months before the first Debate.
>
> Third, I have not seen an anti-GOP consultant predict more and worse to
> come; what I saw was Hugh Hewitt (a very influential and very conservative
> pro-GOP blogger) tweet: "For the benefit of the country, the party and his
> family, and for his own good, @realDonaldTrump should withdraw. More and
> worse oppo coming". "Oppo" here implies "Opposition Research", or dirt dug
> out and manipulated by political opponents; but again, I have not seen
> evidence to support that this story came from Trump's opposition, or even
> any reports implying such.
>
> Finally, I do not share your overwhelmingly positive view of Hillary's
> campaign, and certainly would not put it in the same league as Obama 2008,
> which will go down as one of the most effective campaigns in American
> political history. I agree that all other things being equal the deck is
> stacked against a candidate trying to win a third consecutive term for 

Re: [TV orNotTV] Will Billy Bush be hurt by Trump's vulgar comments about women?

[PGage]

On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 6:17 PM, Tom Wolper  wrote:

>
> 2. The campaign that Hillary Clinton is running is amazing. I think it is
> better than the campaign Obama ran in 2008 but I would need to see a
> post-election wrapup to decide. The campaign was put together in 2015 to
> run uphill against the traditional impulse to change parties in the White
> House after 8 years. That they got to run against a circus act with a
> fractured party behind him was a gift, but they still go full out to win. I
> have no idea how long the Clinton campaign has been sitting on this tape
> but they waited for the best time to leak it to the Washington Post and it
> was yesterday. In my Twitter feed last evening I saw a retweet from an
> anti-GOP consultant saying that there is much worse out there. So the
> Clinton campaign will release it in dribs and drabs over the coming month.
> And today on Twitter I see that we should expect to see ads showing GOP
> candidates in 2018 and 2020 announcing their support for Trump along with
> the worst of these leaks.
>


I am not sure how literal you are being about your #2 here, but I have to
dispute it, in several ways:

First, has it really been stablished that this story came from the Clinton
campaign in any way? The WaPo itself published a story yesterday that the
Access Hollywood people found the clip themselves (apparently everyone was
archives of Trump footage is going through it looking for material). NBC,
which apparently owns Access Hollywood, made them sit on the story for 4
days while their lawyers worried over it (for no obvious reason, except
they had already been bullied by threatened Trump lawsuits). Eventually the
WaPo reporter got an anonymous tip about the footage, confirmed it, and
they ran the story within a day. NBC got wind that the WaPo story was
coming, but rather than putting its already produced story out first, let
the WaPo break it, then published their story on MSNBC.com immediately
after. It is possible the anonymous source that tipped WaPo was from the
Clinton campaign I suppose, but NBC seems to be assuming it is someone who
works at Access Hollywood. See:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/nbc-delayed-publication-of-lewd-trump-tape-because-of-lawsuit-fears/2016/10/08/a3c6850e-8db9-11e6-875e-2c1bfe943b66_story.html

Second, it is not clear to me that, even if the Clinton campaign did have
this story, there would have been any real reason to hold it until last
Friday. Their big lead melted away all through August and September; I
think it would be almost impossible for any campaign to hold a story like
this while in free fall, on the theory that it would be more effective  at
the end of the first week of October. If anything you might think they
would have released it a few days before Debate #1, which was so very
crucial for the Clinton campaign. Indeed, the story (which a friend of mine
is calling "BushGate", which I find amusing but perhaps inappropriate) has
created a perfect storm in large part because of Hillary raising the
Machado issue at Debate 1, and Trump's almost suicidal response to it in
the days after the debate, and then Pence's absurd denials during the VP
Debate. That is a string of events that would have been pretty much
impossible to anticipate in the weeks or months before the first Debate.

Third, I have not seen an anti-GOP consultant predict more and worse to
come; what I saw was Hugh Hewitt (a very influential and very conservative
pro-GOP blogger) tweet: "For the benefit of the country, the party and his
family, and for his own good, @realDonaldTrump should withdraw. More and
worse oppo coming". "Oppo" here implies "Opposition Research", or dirt dug
out and manipulated by political opponents; but again, I have not seen
evidence to support that this story came from Trump's opposition, or even
any reports implying such.

Finally, I do not share your overwhelmingly positive view of Hillary's
campaign, and certainly would not put it in the same league as Obama 2008,
which will go down as one of the most effective campaigns in American
political history. I agree that all other things being equal the deck is
stacked against a candidate trying to win a third consecutive term for
their party - but if she was running against almost anyone other than Trump
(the almost is for Cruz), Hillary would very likely be behind right now.
Her campaign was slow and clumsy in dealing with Sanders during the
primaries, and even though they have known about her main liabilities
(email, Wall Street ties) for a long time, they were almost Jeb-Bushian in
their stunning inability to have a competent response to an overwhelmingly
predictable question. They did put on an amazing convention, which will go
down as having been a very important part of this campaign, and they
prepared her very well for the first Debate. But their ground game lags
behind Obama 2012 and 2008, and they are not terribly nimble or strategic
in dealing 

[TV orNotTV] Re: California/OSHA may require condoms in adult oriented entertainment

[Bob Jersey]

Kevin M., May 29, 2011:
>
> I tried to pick a subject heading that would bypass the spam filters,
> but the weblink to the article will probably cause problems.
>
> 
>
> This could be a major blow to the industry, making things even harder
> for them. It could suck the life out of the business, which has
> suffered from flacid sales. Leave it to the government to be so head
> strong and cock sure. Industry heads will be locked together in
> private meetings in order to come to a resolution that will satisfy
> everyone.
>
> 
>
> [long-dead Yahoo News Aypee piece]
>
> 
>
> As for me, I hope the measure passes and the industry vacates the San
> Fernando Valley. I've been trying to find affordable housing, and if
> all the adult entertainers were to leave -- well -- there would be a
> big hole to be filled.
>
> 
>
>
All these years later, all Golden State voters will be asked Nov 8th 
whether Cal-OSHA should step up statewide enforcement of this rule, to 
which the agency has already expressed disinterest 

 
apart from the existing LA rule earlier this year (KQED link)... the money 
on the respective sides is far in favor of passage even though both sides 
of the political aisle are opposed... SJ Mercury News 

 
(few-weeks-old link)

B

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[TV orNotTV] Re: Was thinking what was your station's daytime schedule back in the day?

[daniel anderson]

That's the show i was talking about. It aired before "Tic Tac Dough" in my 
area.
That same station had "Memories-Then and Now"- that show aired late on 
Sunday Nights opposite "Star Search" on the ABC station.
As far as  "Hour Magazine" with Gary Collins-the CBS station had it until 
they got Regis-then the ABC station aired  "Hour Magazine" opposite "St. 
Elsewhere" and Regis.

On Saturday, October 8, 2016 at 11:00:08 PM UTC-4, Diner wrote:
>
> The John Palmer newsmagazine was "Instant Recall." Here's a clip:
>
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4173g_instant-recall-newsmagazine-from-t_shortfilms
> It used clips to look back on the current date in history. The Decades 
> series "Through the Decades" now uses the same concept.
>
> In Philadelphia, at 9 am, it was Phil Donahue on the ever-dominant ABC 
> station, and a series of local talk shows on WCAU (then the CBS affiliate) 
> - The Jane Whitney Show, etc. On KYW (then with NBC), I'm not sure... it 
> was a Group W/Westinghouse station, so I know they carried "Hour Magazine" 
> with Gary Collins, but I think that didn't run until 11 am or so.
>
>
> On Saturday, October 8, 2016 at 8:22:12 PM UTC-4, daniel anderson wrote:
>>
>> in the 80s, my NBC affiliate was showing Phil Donahue after the "Today" 
>> show with Bryant Gumbel and Jane Pauley- until 1988, when they got the 
>> rights to rerun "St. Elsewhere"- Phil moved to the ABC affiliate and got 
>> the pre-news slot. The NBC affiliate had at least several diffrent shows 
>> following "Today" when Deborah Norville was on "Today"- from memory there 
>> was a courtroom drama with Raymond Burr, a show(can't remember it's title) 
>> with John Palmer(who had left NBC in 90), "Tic Tac Dough"(with Patrick 
>> Wayne). What show/shows followed the morning shows back in the day where 
>> you lived?
>>
>

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[TV orNotTV] Re: Was thinking what was your station's daytime schedule back in the day?

[daniel anderson]

The same year that  the NBC station(which is based in Greenville, but is 
picked up in Western NC) got the rights to  rerun "St. Elsewhere", Regis 
started his show, which was on the CBS station. That show is still on, but 
with Kelly, on the NBC station, in place of "St. Elsewhere" these days- 
they tried everything until they got Regis and(or) Kelly

On Saturday, October 8, 2016 at 8:22:12 PM UTC-4, daniel anderson wrote:
>
> in the 80s, my NBC affiliate was showing Phil Donahue after the "Today" 
> show with Bryant Gumbel and Jane Pauley- until 1988, when they got the 
> rights to rerun "St. Elsewhere"- Phil moved to the ABC affiliate and got 
> the pre-news slot. The NBC affiliate had at least several diffrent shows 
> following "Today" when Deborah Norville was on "Today"- from memory there 
> was a courtroom drama with Raymond Burr, a show(can't remember it's title) 
> with John Palmer(who had left NBC in 90), "Tic Tac Dough"(with Patrick 
> Wayne). What show/shows followed the morning shows back in the day where 
> you lived?
>

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Will Billy Bush be hurt by Trump's vulgar comments about women?

[Adam Bowie]

I just hope that the obnoxious comments on this tape, along with the
previous sexism, racism and all around bullying see Trump achieve what is
clearly his worst nightmare - to become one of the biggest Presidential
losers ever.

The Apprentice footage belongs to Mark Burnett right? Shouldn't he right
now be shopping NBC an Apprentice Outtakes special? And yes, I realise that
must mean some acknowledgement of how Trump behaved at the time.

I'm reminded of a scandal in UK TV in 2011 when the two main presenters of
Sky Sports were fired for making off-air remarks about a female referee. At
first suspended, an anonymous Sky employee then leaked other off-air tapes
of the pair, at which point they were fired. Their comments weren't
anywhere near as offensive as Trump's. The pair now work for a Qatari TV
station.

It may be airing at 2am UK time tonight, but if it wasn't already, the
upcoming debate is now unmissable.



On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 2:22 AM, Kevin M.  wrote:

> A producer for The Apprentice has openly stated on Twitter that footage
> exists of Trump saying much worse
>
>  https://twitter.com/billpruitt/status/784872190587998209
>
>
> On Saturday, October 8, 2016, Tom Wolper  wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 6:03 PM, Kevin M. 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Tic Tac weighs in. Apparently they are NOT the official breath mint of
>>> sexual assault by rich white guys:
>>>
>>> https://twitter.com/tictacusa/status/784831611531436032
>>>
>>
>> Two comments on the situation:
>>
>> 1. My first reaction on seeing the content of the tape of Trump's remarks
>> was that this is no big deal. There might be some issue of a middle aged
>> adult talking like an adolescent but we (men) have heard worse. But then I
>> try to step outside of my perceptions as a straight white male and I accept
>> that suburban white women find this exceptionally offensive. And they are
>> the demographic targeted by this leaked tape. The fact that we commenters
>> on this list are male and are not offended should not lead us to conclude
>> that it is wrong or a sign of weakness to be offended.
>>
>> 2. The campaign that Hillary Clinton is running is amazing. I think it is
>> better than the campaign Obama ran in 2008 but I would need to see a
>> post-election wrapup to decide. The campaign was put together in 2015 to
>> run uphill against the traditional impulse to change parties in the White
>> House after 8 years. That they got to run against a circus act with a
>> fractured party behind him was a gift, but they still go full out to win. I
>> have no idea how long the Clinton campaign has been sitting on this tape
>> but they waited for the best time to leak it to the Washington Post and it
>> was yesterday. In my Twitter feed last evening I saw a retweet from an
>> anti-GOP consultant saying that there is much worse out there. So the
>> Clinton campaign will release it in dribs and drabs over the coming month.
>> And today on Twitter I see that we should expect to see ads showing GOP
>> candidates in 2018 and 2020 announcing their support for Trump along with
>> the worst of these leaks.
>>
>> --
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>
>
> --
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>
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[TV orNotTV] Re: Was thinking what was your station's daytime schedule back in the day?

[daniel anderson]

NBC did have some good game shows back then("Sale of the Century", 
"Scrabble", and "Super Password"). However in SP's case, they had the issue 
of a lot of stations airing local newscasts at 12:00(that wasn't the case 
everywhere, since that's 11:00 in the Midwest and the other zones back 
then). Phil Donahue, as he was back then, was the king of talk(although in 
my area, you could watch "Superior Court" or reruns of "Falcon Crest" 
instead if you didn't like him). The Central stations could do news at 
12:00 and then the soaps at 12:30-3:30.


On Saturday, October 8, 2016 at 8:22:12 PM UTC-4, daniel anderson wrote:
>
> in the 80s, my NBC affiliate was showing Phil Donahue after the "Today" 
> show with Bryant Gumbel and Jane Pauley- until 1988, when they got the 
> rights to rerun "St. Elsewhere"- Phil moved to the ABC affiliate and got 
> the pre-news slot. The NBC affiliate had at least several diffrent shows 
> following "Today" when Deborah Norville was on "Today"- from memory there 
> was a courtroom drama with Raymond Burr, a show(can't remember it's title) 
> with John Palmer(who had left NBC in 90), "Tic Tac Dough"(with Patrick 
> Wayne). What show/shows followed the morning shows back in the day where 
> you lived?
>

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[TV orNotTV] Re: Was thinking what was your station's daytime schedule back in the day?

[daniel anderson]

The NBC station had the network game shows in those days at 10:00- the CBS 
station did too-the independent one usually had reruns of "Little House On 
The Prairie" opposite "The $25,000 Pyramid" and "Sale of the Century"-  the 
ABC one had local/syndicated shows-remembered reruns of "Falcon Crest" 
being on that station- "Superior Court" was on the CBS station opposite Phil 
Donahue on the NBC station.
On Saturday, October 8, 2016 at 11:00:08 PM UTC-4, Diner wrote:
>
> The John Palmer newsmagazine was "Instant Recall." Here's a clip:
>
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4173g_instant-recall-newsmagazine-from-t_shortfilms
> It used clips to look back on the current date in history. The Decades 
> series "Through the Decades" now uses the same concept.
>
> In Philadelphia, at 9 am, it was Phil Donahue on the ever-dominant ABC 
> station, and a series of local talk shows on WCAU (then the CBS affiliate) 
> - The Jane Whitney Show, etc. On KYW (then with NBC), I'm not sure... it 
> was a Group W/Westinghouse station, so I know they carried "Hour Magazine" 
> with Gary Collins, but I think that didn't run until 11 am or so.
>
>
> On Saturday, October 8, 2016 at 8:22:12 PM UTC-4, daniel anderson wrote:
>>
>> in the 80s, my NBC affiliate was showing Phil Donahue after the "Today" 
>> show with Bryant Gumbel and Jane Pauley- until 1988, when they got the 
>> rights to rerun "St. Elsewhere"- Phil moved to the ABC affiliate and got 
>> the pre-news slot. The NBC affiliate had at least several diffrent shows 
>> following "Today" when Deborah Norville was on "Today"- from memory there 
>> was a courtroom drama with Raymond Burr, a show(can't remember it's title) 
>> with John Palmer(who had left NBC in 90), "Tic Tac Dough"(with Patrick 
>> Wayne). What show/shows followed the morning shows back in the day where 
>> you lived?
>>
>

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