Re: [TV orNotTV] Debate #1

[Kevin M.]

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 7:01 PM PGage  wrote:

> So,  want to expand a little on this, because it’s important (and probably
> because I am now in Day 4 of my third evacuation in 4 weeks, with a scary
> ass fire 2,5 miles from m front door).
>

First of all, sorry you’re having to endure that.

>
> Donald Trump is an evil, racist, misogynistic narcissistic conman. But he
> has been absolutely transparent. He is EXACTLY the president he told us he
> was going to be. Every horrible thing he has done, trivial and profound,
> from lying about the size of his inaugurations crowd to the monkey
> masturbation and shit throwing display he engaged in last night, is
> consistent with the version of himself he loudly and repeatedly presented
> himself to be from the minute he took that ridiculous ride down the
> escalator.
>
> Americans did not elect Trump die to some failure of aggressive, incisive
> investigative journalism in 2015-2016. Indeed, it is likely true that there
> has never been a US President that voters knew more clearly and fully what
> he was going to be like as a candidate than Trump. Sure, the NYT and MSNBC
> and CNN all gave him more oxygen than he deserved, but he did not need any
> of it. He is not president because Joe and Mika played foodies with him for
> 15 months. He is President because a critical mass (not a majority, but
> then, that is not required) of Americans wanted exactly the kind of
> President Donald Trump has been, a White Nationalist who fights to reclaim
> whit, male, heteronormative privilege and troll liberals who aspire for
> Obama and King’s Beloved Community.
>
> With all due respect, anyone who blames mediocre journalism for Trumpmis
> trying to let the country off the hook. We have exactly the President we
> wanted, and had the media done an even better job of telling us who he was,
> he would have earned even more votes.
>

You’re not wrong about any of that. Americans voted the bastard into office
(or at least the electoral college did). But I maintain the reason so many
did so is because the media sold more papers and got bigger ratings when
the focus was on the crazy TV personality instead of any of the other
candidates. Trump got more ink... they made him the front runner. It was
the same confluence of events that begat Governor “the body” in Minnesota
and Governor “Terminator” in California. All of their messages were nearly
identical: “The career politicians haven’t done anything for you, so vote
for me.” Serious journalists would challenge the premise, but eventually
they have way because it was more fun to watch politicians flailing about
trying to defend themselves. I could go on but there’s no need... it
happens on TV every damned day. “Coming up, we discuss the inflammatory
Trump Tweet of the day,” or “Here’s a panel discussion to discuss whether
the racist thing Trump said is racist.” Meanwhile “Sleepy Joe” isn’t
getting mentioned in the news because he refuses to be deliberately
provocative. So the lead story is always Trump.

Changing the subject back to last night’s goatf*ck, since I’d already
tortured myself watching it, today I compounded the torture by tuning into
the FoxNews audio stream on my Sirius app to get their perspective on the
debate. The network’s take on the debate was a textbook example of denial.
Nobody denied that Trump was wrong to be an interrupting asshole...
seriously, FoxNews pundits all agreed... but the reason they thought it was
wrong was markedly different. The FoxNews consensus was that if Biden had
been allowed to speak, he would have embarrassed himself, so because Trump
interrupted him, he was actually doing Biden a favor. So they weren’t mad
at the embarrassment Trump made of himself and the debate process; they
were mad Trump didn’t let Biden embarrass himself more.

The one thing Biden said during the debate that FoxNews thought was wrong
was when he refused to say whether he’d pack the Supreme Court if elected,
because he didn’t want his answer to be a big story. So instead of his
answer being a big story, his non-answer became their “gotcha” moment. “He
refused to say he wouldn’t do it, so he’s definitely going to do it.”

The other thing worth mentioning about FoxNews is that although it is
widely known that Biden is far from the fringe, radical leftist that a
Bernie Sanders or AOC might be, FoxNews is painting him as a candidate who
is beholden to the extreme left and would force an extreme left agenda if
elected. It’s an interesting (baseless) strategy, to imply a
moderate/centrist would unleash extreme legislation... time will tell if it
is working.



>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 5:50 PM PGage  wrote:
>
>> I think I meant to type “raped”, and I assume I can include all of us in
>> that.
>>
>> I’m not defending bad journalists (most on TV) or weak politicians. I am
>> saying Trump is something different.
>>
>> It’s a delusion that better journalists would have prevented Trump. We
>> the people got what we deserved

Re: [TV orNotTV] Debate #1

[PGage]

So,  want to expand a little on this, because it’s important (and probably
because I am now in Day 4 of my third evacuation in 4 weeks, with a scary
ass fire 2,5 miles from m front door).

Donald Trump is an evil, racist, misogynistic narcissistic conman. But he
has been absolutely transparent. He is EXACTLY the president he told us he
was going to be. Every horrible thing he has done, trivial and profound,
from lying about the size of his inaugurations crowd to the monkey
masturbation and shit throwing display he engaged in last night, is
consistent with the version of himself he loudly and repeatedly presented
himself to be from the minute he took that ridiculous ride down the
escalator.

Americans did not elect Trump die to some failure of aggressive, incisive
investigative journalism in 2015-2016. Indeed, it is likely true that there
has never been a US President that voters knew more clearly and fully what
he was going to be like as a candidate than Trump. Sure, the NYT and MSNBC
and CNN all gave him more oxygen than he deserved, but he did not need any
of it. He is not president because Joe and Mika played foodies with him for
15 months. He is President because a critical mass (not a majority, but
then, that is not required) of Americans wanted exactly the kind of
President Donald Trump has been, a White Nationalist who fights to reclaim
whit, male, heteronormative privilege and troll liberals who aspire for
Obama and King’s Beloved Community.

With all due respect, anyone who blames mediocre journalism for Trumpmis
trying to let the country off the hook. We have exactly the President we
wanted, and had the media done an even better job of telling us who he was,
he would have earned even more votes.


On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 5:50 PM PGage  wrote:

> I think I meant to type “raped”, and I assume I can include all of us in
> that.
>
> I’m not defending bad journalists (most on TV) or weak politicians. I am
> saying Trump is something different.
>
> It’s a delusion that better journalists would have prevented Trump. We the
> people got what we deserved
>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 1:25 PM Doug Fields  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> “Who you callin’ ‘we’, Kemosabe?”
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m not familiar with the term “taped” as it applies to intoxicated
>> people, so I can’t judge there…but many of us (the “we” that apparently
>> excludes you) absolutely **do** blame journalists and other politicians
>> for not doing their
>>
>> jobs and getting Trumped.  Journalists are supposed to hold politicians’
>> feet to the fire, and make them accountable for their actions.  Politicians
>> are supposed to work for the betterment of the country and its citizens.
>> Too many of both groups have been
>>
>> shirking those duties for the last four years.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Doug Fields
>>
>>
>> Tampa, FL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* tvornottv@googlegroups.com 
>>
>> *On Behalf Of *PGage
>>
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 30, 2020 4:16 PM
>>
>>
>> *To:* tvornottv@googlegroups.com
>>
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [TV orNotTV] Debate #1
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I specifically resist your last point. Yes the media is lazy and ratings
>> driven; yes Democrats are weak and cowardly. Those are serious but baseline
>> problems. Trump is something qualitatively new and toxic. We don’t blame
>> intoxicated people
>>
>> for getting taped; we don’t blame journalists and other politicians (R &
>> D) for getting Trumped.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 12:36 PM Kevin M. 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 10:50 AM PGage  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Wallace did reset Biden’s clock several times, but only to get him back
>> his original 2 minutes.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The debate moderator has much less discretion than a K-12 teacher, or any
>> standard employee. All they can do is whatever the two campaigns agreed to
>> with the Commission. This was not an episode of Wallace’s Fox News Sunday,
>> where he would
>>
>> have had more discretion.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> As I say, the only thing he could have done beyond what he did was tell
>> Trump if he broke the rules he himself had agreed to one more time, he
>> (Walllace) was going to end the debate and walk off the stage. Perhaps he
>> should have, but no
>>
>> news person would like to make themselves the center of the story, and
>> it’s a judgment call if that net benefits Trump anyway. I get why he didn’t
>> do that.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> As you’ve said, except that wasn’t all Wallace could have done. Within
>> the parameters of the debate rules, his job is to ensure fairness and equal
>> time for both men. He literally did not moderate; he asked questions then
>> sat back and did
>>
>> nothing. If moderators have no power, as you keep saying, then there are
>> no moderators... just assholes 

Re: [TV orNotTV] Debate #1

[PGage]

I think I meant to type “raped”, and I assume I can include all of us in
that.

I’m not defending bad journalists (most on TV) or weak politicians. I am
saying Trump is something different.

It’s a delusion that better journalists would have prevented Trump. We the
people got what we deserved

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 1:25 PM Doug Fields  wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> “Who you callin’ ‘we’, Kemosabe?”
>
>
>
>
>
> I’m not familiar with the term “taped” as it applies to intoxicated
> people, so I can’t judge there…but many of us (the “we” that apparently
> excludes you) absolutely **do** blame journalists and other politicians
> for not doing their
>
> jobs and getting Trumped.  Journalists are supposed to hold politicians’
> feet to the fire, and make them accountable for their actions.  Politicians
> are supposed to work for the betterment of the country and its citizens.
> Too many of both groups have been
>
> shirking those duties for the last four years.
>
>
>
>
>
> Doug Fields
>
>
> Tampa, FL
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* tvornottv@googlegroups.com 
>
> *On Behalf Of *PGage
>
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 30, 2020 4:16 PM
>
>
> *To:* tvornottv@googlegroups.com
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [TV orNotTV] Debate #1
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I specifically resist your last point. Yes the media is lazy and ratings
> driven; yes Democrats are weak and cowardly. Those are serious but baseline
> problems. Trump is something qualitatively new and toxic. We don’t blame
> intoxicated people
>
> for getting taped; we don’t blame journalists and other politicians (R &
> D) for getting Trumped.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 12:36 PM Kevin M. 
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 10:50 AM PGage  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Wallace did reset Biden’s clock several times, but only to get him back
> his original 2 minutes.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The debate moderator has much less discretion than a K-12 teacher, or any
> standard employee. All they can do is whatever the two campaigns agreed to
> with the Commission. This was not an episode of Wallace’s Fox News Sunday,
> where he would
>
> have had more discretion.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> As I say, the only thing he could have done beyond what he did was tell
> Trump if he broke the rules he himself had agreed to one more time, he
> (Walllace) was going to end the debate and walk off the stage. Perhaps he
> should have, but no
>
> news person would like to make themselves the center of the story, and
> it’s a judgment call if that net benefits Trump anyway. I get why he didn’t
> do that.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> As you’ve said, except that wasn’t all Wallace could have done. Within the
> parameters of the debate rules, his job is to ensure fairness and equal
> time for both men. He literally did not moderate; he asked questions then
> sat back and did
>
> nothing. If moderators have no power, as you keep saying, then there are
> no moderators... just assholes asking inane questions with no follow-up or
> accountability. Last night, Chris Wallace acted like an asshole instead of
> acting like a moderator.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> This is why I say the Commission needs to tell both campaigns that
> remaining debates will only be held if moderator has the ability to enforce
> rules already agreed to by turning off mikes.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I will strongly dispute any attempt to spread blame for last night’s shit
> show. This was not due to Fox News, the degradations of News by cable tv,
> poor journalistic standards, three white old men, reliance on obsolete old
> school media
>
> (all of which And more I have seen blamed).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The blame for what happened last night is completely and exclusively on
> Donald Trump.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Trump was Trump. Neither man on stage with Trump did a damned thing to
> stop Trump from being Trump. In much the same way the media and the
> Democrats enabled his first term in office, it seems as if they are going
> to enable his second term
>
> as well.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 8:14 AM Kevin M.  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 7:29 AM PGage  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> But what did he not do that you would have wanted him to do, that he could
> have done? As I say, short of walking off the stage, I don’t think there is
> anything.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> As a former teacher, there are basic skills that can be used to get even
> the most recalcitrant child in line. As a former Hollywood flunkie, there
> are basic skills that can be used to coax even the most entitled prig to
> take direction.
>
> It isn’t that Trump does whatever he wants or says whatever he wants... he
> doesn’t. The one thing he wanted last night was to be the center of
> attention.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> California 

Re: [TV orNotTV] Debate #1

[Kevin M.]

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 1:25 PM Doug Fields  wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> “Who you callin’ ‘we’, Kemosabe?”
>
>
>
>
>
> I’m not familiar with the term “taped” as it applies to intoxicated
> people, so I can’t judge there…but many of us (the “we” that apparently
> excludes you) absolutely **do** blame journalists and other politicians
> for not doing their
>
> jobs and getting Trumped.  Journalists are supposed to hold politicians’
> feet to the fire, and make them accountable for their actions.  Politicians
> are supposed to work for the betterment of the country and its citizens.
> Too many of both groups have been
>
> shirking those duties for the last four years.
>

I second Doug’s reply. CNN and MSNBC got Trump elected. FoxNews didn’t do
it; they didn’t have an audience large enough to pull that off. The cable
news outlets continue to provide him with interviews and live appearances
where he’s not confronted on his lies.

The Democrats didn’t “get Trumped,” they actively participated in the
process, over-confident that the public would never vote for a joke
candidate. Now it is 2020. People like Bloomberg and Sanders (but a
Democrat, but a party spoiler nonetheless) worked to take votes away from
stronger Democratic candidates. Pelosi cow-towed to Trump regarding
impeachment, and the other liberals stumble over each other to comment in
the hopes nobody notices they don’t act against him.



>
>
>
>
> Doug Fields
>
>
> Tampa, FL
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* tvornottv@googlegroups.com 
>
> *On Behalf Of *PGage
>
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 30, 2020 4:16 PM
>
>
> *To:* tvornottv@googlegroups.com
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [TV orNotTV] Debate #1
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I specifically resist your last point. Yes the media is lazy and ratings
> driven; yes Democrats are weak and cowardly. Those are serious but baseline
> problems. Trump is something qualitatively new and toxic. We don’t blame
> intoxicated people
>
> for getting taped; we don’t blame journalists and other politicians (R &
> D) for getting Trumped.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 12:36 PM Kevin M. 
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 10:50 AM PGage  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Wallace did reset Biden’s clock several times, but only to get him back
> his original 2 minutes.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The debate moderator has much less discretion than a K-12 teacher, or any
> standard employee. All they can do is whatever the two campaigns agreed to
> with the Commission. This was not an episode of Wallace’s Fox News Sunday,
> where he would
>
> have had more discretion.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> As I say, the only thing he could have done beyond what he did was tell
> Trump if he broke the rules he himself had agreed to one more time, he
> (Walllace) was going to end the debate and walk off the stage. Perhaps he
> should have, but no
>
> news person would like to make themselves the center of the story, and
> it’s a judgment call if that net benefits Trump anyway. I get why he didn’t
> do that.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> As you’ve said, except that wasn’t all Wallace could have done. Within the
> parameters of the debate rules, his job is to ensure fairness and equal
> time for both men. He literally did not moderate; he asked questions then
> sat back and did
>
> nothing. If moderators have no power, as you keep saying, then there are
> no moderators... just assholes asking inane questions with no follow-up or
> accountability. Last night, Chris Wallace acted like an asshole instead of
> acting like a moderator.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> This is why I say the Commission needs to tell both campaigns that
> remaining debates will only be held if moderator has the ability to enforce
> rules already agreed to by turning off mikes.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I will strongly dispute any attempt to spread blame for last night’s shit
> show. This was not due to Fox News, the degradations of News by cable tv,
> poor journalistic standards, three white old men, reliance on obsolete old
> school media
>
> (all of which And more I have seen blamed).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The blame for what happened last night is completely and exclusively on
> Donald Trump.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Trump was Trump. Neither man on stage with Trump did a damned thing to
> stop Trump from being Trump. In much the same way the media and the
> Democrats enabled his first term in office, it seems as if they are going
> to enable his second term
>
> as well.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 8:14 AM Kevin M.  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 7:29 AM PGage  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> But what did he not do that you would have wanted him to do, that he could
> have done? As I say, short of walking off the stage, I don’t think there is
> anything.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 

RE: [TV orNotTV] Debate #1

[Doug Fields]

“Who you callin’ ‘we’, Kemosabe?”

I’m not familiar with the term “taped” as it applies to intoxicated people, so 
I can’t judge there…but many of us (the “we” that apparently excludes you) 
absolutely *do* blame journalists and other politicians for not doing their 
jobs and getting Trumped.  Journalists are supposed to hold politicians’ feet 
to the fire, and make them accountable for their actions.  Politicians are 
supposed to work for the betterment of the country and its citizens.  Too many 
of both groups have been shirking those duties for the last four years.

Doug Fields
Tampa, FL

From: tvornottv@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of PGage
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2020 4:16 PM
To: tvornottv@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [TV orNotTV] Debate #1

I specifically resist your last point. Yes the media is lazy and ratings 
driven; yes Democrats are weak and cowardly. Those are serious but baseline 
problems. Trump is something qualitatively new and toxic. We don’t blame 
intoxicated people for getting taped; we don’t blame journalists and other 
politicians (R & D) for getting Trumped.

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 12:36 PM Kevin M. 
mailto:drunkbastar...@gmail.com>> wrote:

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 10:50 AM PGage 
mailto:pga...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Wallace did reset Biden’s clock several times, but only to get him back his 
original 2 minutes.

The debate moderator has much less discretion than a K-12 teacher, or any 
standard employee. All they can do is whatever the two campaigns agreed to with 
the Commission. This was not an episode of Wallace’s Fox News Sunday, where he 
would have had more discretion.

As I say, the only thing he could have done beyond what he did was tell Trump 
if he broke the rules he himself had agreed to one more time, he (Walllace) was 
going to end the debate and walk off the stage. Perhaps he should have, but no 
news person would like to make themselves the center of the story, and it’s a 
judgment call if that net benefits Trump anyway. I get why he didn’t do that.

As you’ve said, except that wasn’t all Wallace could have done. Within the 
parameters of the debate rules, his job is to ensure fairness and equal time 
for both men. He literally did not moderate; he asked questions then sat back 
and did nothing. If moderators have no power, as you keep saying, then there 
are no moderators... just assholes asking inane questions with no follow-up or 
accountability. Last night, Chris Wallace acted like an asshole instead of 
acting like a moderator.

This is why I say the Commission needs to tell both campaigns that remaining 
debates will only be held if moderator has the ability to enforce rules already 
agreed to by turning off mikes.

I will strongly dispute any attempt to spread blame for last night’s shit show. 
This was not due to Fox News, the degradations of News by cable tv, poor 
journalistic standards, three white old men, reliance on obsolete old school 
media (all of which And more I have seen blamed).

The blame for what happened last night is completely and exclusively on Donald 
Trump.

Trump was Trump. Neither man on stage with Trump did a damned thing to stop 
Trump from being Trump. In much the same way the media and the Democrats 
enabled his first term in office, it seems as if they are going to enable his 
second term as well.


On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 8:14 AM Kevin M. 
mailto:drunkbastar...@gmail.com>> wrote:


On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 7:29 AM PGage 
mailto:pga...@gmail.com>> wrote:
But what did he not do that you would have wanted him to do, that he could have 
done? As I say, short of walking off the stage, I don’t think there is anything.

As a former teacher, there are basic skills that can be used to get even the 
most recalcitrant child in line. As a former Hollywood flunkie, there are basic 
skills that can be used to coax even the most entitled prig to take direction. 
It isn’t that Trump does whatever he wants or says whatever he wants... he 
doesn’t. The one thing he wanted last night was to be the center of attention.

California labor law is quite clear that all employees be given ten 
uninterrupted minutes of break time for every four hours worked. If I’m on my 
sixth minute of a break, and the boss asks me a work-related question, the 
clock is reset and I get ten minutes starting from whenever the boss is done 
talking to me. All Wallace had to do, the first time Trump interrupted Biden, 
was to reset Biden’s two minute clock. Give Biden more uninterrupted time. Make 
Biden the center of attention longer; Trump would have capitulated.

The problem is not that Trump doesn’t play by the rules; it’s that nobody 
(especially the Democrats) makes him play by the rules. There were a dozen 
other different things Wallace could have done, and even a few things Biden 
could have done, but instead Trump was Trump. And America is all the worse 
because of it.


On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 7:19 AM Kevin M. 
mailto:drunkbastar...@gmail.com>> wrote:


On 

Re: [TV orNotTV] Debate #1

[PGage]

Best possible outcome is Trump refuses to accept new rules and we have no
more debates.

Unlikely, both because Trump is behind and needs the at bats to catch up,
and Trump is a narcissist who needs attention more than oxygen

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 12:09 PM Adam Bowie  wrote:

> It sounds like the Presidential Debate Commission is going to change the
> rules.
>
> 'The commission said Wednesday the debate “made clear that additional
> structure should be added to the format of the remaining debates to ensure
> a more orderly discussion of the issues.”'
>
>
> https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-donald-trump-chris-wallace-campaigns-04ee2e8d54f456ee6cafdc5fe53a5d28
>
> Of course, you change the rules and candidates can back out...
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 6:50 PM PGage  wrote:
>
>> Wallace did reset Biden’s clock several times, but only to get him back
>> his original 2 minutes.
>>
>> The debate moderator has much less discretion than a K-12 teacher, or any
>> standard employee. All they can do is whatever the two campaigns agreed to
>> with the Commission. This was not an episode of Wallace’s Fox News Sunday,
>> where he would have had more discretion.
>>
>> As I say, the only thing he could have done beyond what he did was tell
>> Trump if he broke the rules he himself had agreed to one more time, he
>> (Walllace) was going to end the debate and walk off the stage. Perhaps he
>> should have, but no news person would like to make themselves the center of
>> the story, and it’s a judgment call if that net benefits Trump anyway. I
>> get why he didn’t do that.
>>
>> This is why I say the Commission needs to tell both campaigns that
>> remaining debates will only be held if moderator has the ability to enforce
>> rules already agreed to by turning off mikes.
>>
>> I will strongly dispute any attempt to spread blame for last night’s shit
>> show. This was not due to Fox News, the degradations of News by cable tv,
>> poor journalistic standards, three white old men, reliance on obsolete old
>> school media (all of which And more I have seen blamed).
>>
>> The blame for what happened last night is completely and exclusively on
>> Donald Trump.
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 8:14 AM Kevin M. 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 7:29 AM PGage  wrote:
>>>
 But what did he not do that you would have wanted him to do, that he
 could have done? As I say, short of walking off the stage, I don’t think
 there is anything.

>>>
>>> As a former teacher, there are basic skills that can be used to get even
>>> the most recalcitrant child in line. As a former Hollywood flunkie, there
>>> are basic skills that can be used to coax even the most entitled prig to
>>> take direction. It isn’t that Trump does whatever he wants or says whatever
>>> he wants... he doesn’t. The one thing he wanted last night was to be the
>>> center of attention.
>>>
>>> California labor law is quite clear that all employees be given ten
>>> uninterrupted minutes of break time for every four hours worked. If I’m on
>>> my sixth minute of a break, and the boss asks me a work-related question,
>>> the clock is reset and I get ten minutes starting from whenever the boss is
>>> done talking to me. All Wallace had to do, the first time Trump interrupted
>>> Biden, was to reset Biden’s two minute clock. Give Biden more uninterrupted
>>> time. Make Biden the center of attention longer; Trump would have
>>> capitulated.
>>>
>>> The problem is not that Trump doesn’t play by the rules; it’s that
>>> nobody (especially the Democrats) makes him play by the rules. There were a
>>> dozen other different things Wallace could have done, and even a few things
>>> Biden could have done, but instead Trump was Trump. And America is all the
>>> worse because of it.
>>>
>>>
 On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 7:19 AM Kevin M. 
 wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 3:54 AM Doug Eastick 
> wrote:
>
>> I watched it. Actually the whole family sat down to watch it.
>> Fifteen minutes in, one left the room.  60 minutes in, two others left 
>> the
>> room.
>>
>> Dana Bash of CNN called it a "shit show".
>> Indeed it was.
>>
>> Chris Wallace failed, badly, as well.
>>
>
> Chris Wallace failed so badly that Mike Wallace also failed, and he’s
> been dead eight years
>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed., Sep. 30, 2020, 12:38 a.m. Kevin M., <
>> drunkbastar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I’m willing to entertain those still of the opinion that the debates
>>> are useful for undecided voters, or that they help raise awareness of
>>> issues or policy ideas. But I endured the entire debate tonight, so I’ve
>>> got to tell you, if you’re going to defend debates after tonight, you’d
>>> better come loaded for bear. Because whatever that goatf*ck was, it 
>>> served
>>> no purpose; it wasn’t even good theater. It was like watching 

Re: [TV orNotTV] Debate #1

[PGage]

I specifically resist your last point. Yes the media is lazy and ratings
driven; yes Democrats are weak and cowardly. Those are serious but baseline
problems. Trump is something qualitatively new and toxic. We don’t blame
intoxicated people for getting taped; we don’t blame journalists and other
politicians (R & D) for getting Trumped.

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 12:36 PM Kevin M.  wrote:

>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 10:50 AM PGage  wrote:
>
>> Wallace did reset Biden’s clock several times, but only to get him back
>> his original 2 minutes.
>>
>> The debate moderator has much less discretion than a K-12 teacher, or any
>> standard employee. All they can do is whatever the two campaigns agreed to
>> with the Commission. This was not an episode of Wallace’s Fox News Sunday,
>> where he would have had more discretion.
>>
>
>> As I say, the only thing he could have done beyond what he did was tell
>> Trump if he broke the rules he himself had agreed to one more time, he
>> (Walllace) was going to end the debate and walk off the stage. Perhaps he
>> should have, but no news person would like to make themselves the center of
>> the story, and it’s a judgment call if that net benefits Trump anyway. I
>> get why he didn’t do that.
>>
>
> As you’ve said, except that wasn’t all Wallace could have done. Within the
> parameters of the debate rules, his job is to ensure fairness and equal
> time for both men. He literally did not moderate; he asked questions then
> sat back and did nothing. If moderators have no power, as you keep saying,
> then there are no moderators... just assholes asking inane questions with
> no follow-up or accountability. Last night, Chris Wallace acted like an
> asshole instead of acting like a moderator.
>
>>
>> This is why I say the Commission needs to tell both campaigns that
>> remaining debates will only be held if moderator has the ability to enforce
>> rules already agreed to by turning off mikes.
>>
>> I will strongly dispute any attempt to spread blame for last night’s shit
>> show. This was not due to Fox News, the degradations of News by cable tv,
>> poor journalistic standards, three white old men, reliance on obsolete old
>> school media (all of which And more I have seen blamed).
>>
>> The blame for what happened last night is completely and exclusively on
>> Donald Trump.
>>
>
> Trump was Trump. Neither man on stage with Trump did a damned thing to
> stop Trump from being Trump. In much the same way the media and the
> Democrats enabled his first term in office, it seems as if they are going
> to enable his second term as well.
>
>
>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 8:14 AM Kevin M. 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 7:29 AM PGage  wrote:
>>>
 But what did he not do that you would have wanted him to do, that he
 could have done? As I say, short of walking off the stage, I don’t think
 there is anything.

>>>
>>> As a former teacher, there are basic skills that can be used to get even
>>> the most recalcitrant child in line. As a former Hollywood flunkie, there
>>> are basic skills that can be used to coax even the most entitled prig to
>>> take direction. It isn’t that Trump does whatever he wants or says whatever
>>> he wants... he doesn’t. The one thing he wanted last night was to be the
>>> center of attention.
>>>
>>> California labor law is quite clear that all employees be given ten
>>> uninterrupted minutes of break time for every four hours worked. If I’m on
>>> my sixth minute of a break, and the boss asks me a work-related question,
>>> the clock is reset and I get ten minutes starting from whenever the boss is
>>> done talking to me. All Wallace had to do, the first time Trump interrupted
>>> Biden, was to reset Biden’s two minute clock. Give Biden more uninterrupted
>>> time. Make Biden the center of attention longer; Trump would have
>>> capitulated.
>>>
>>> The problem is not that Trump doesn’t play by the rules; it’s that
>>> nobody (especially the Democrats) makes him play by the rules. There were a
>>> dozen other different things Wallace could have done, and even a few things
>>> Biden could have done, but instead Trump was Trump. And America is all the
>>> worse because of it.
>>>
>>>
 On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 7:19 AM Kevin M. 
 wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 3:54 AM Doug Eastick 
> wrote:
>
>> I watched it. Actually the whole family sat down to watch it.
>> Fifteen minutes in, one left the room.  60 minutes in, two others left 
>> the
>> room.
>>
>> Dana Bash of CNN called it a "shit show".
>> Indeed it was.
>>
>> Chris Wallace failed, badly, as well.
>>
>
> Chris Wallace failed so badly that Mike Wallace also failed, and he’s
> been dead eight years
>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed., Sep. 30, 2020, 12:38 a.m. Kevin M., <
>> drunkbastar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I’m willing to entertain those still of the opinion that the 

[TV orNotTV] Re: My future ex-wife appears to be cancer free

[Kevin M.]

Shannen Doherty on how she’s doing and dealing with cancer

She’s as optimistic as anybody suffering through serious cancer could be,
but the reality is grim

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/tv/story/2020-09-29/shannen-doherty-breast-cancer-relapse


On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 7:02 AM Kevin M.  wrote:

> Sigh. Shannen has stage four breast cancer.
>
>
> https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Culture/shannen-doherty-shares-stage-breast-cancer-id-people/story?id=68737604=social_twitter_abcn
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 7:32 AM Kevin M.  wrote:
>
>> Shannen Doherty's most recent Instagram post includes the word remission.
>>
>> "Moments. They happen. Today was and is a moment. What does remission
>> mean? I heard that word and have no idea how to react. Good news? YES.
>> Overwhelming. YES. Now more waiting. As every single one of my fellow
>> cancer family knows, the next five years is crucial. Reoccurrences happen
>> all the time. Many of you have shared that very story with me. So with a
>> heart that is certainly lighter, I wait. In the meantime, decisions.
>> Reconstruction which is several surgeries. Decision on taking a pill for
>> the next five years that comes with its own set of problems and side
>> effects. I am blessed, I know that. But for now remission. I'm going to
>> just breathe."
>>
>> https://www.instagram.com/p/BTcmUkahi0J/?taken-by=theshando
>>
>> It ain't over 'til it's over, but for now I can go back to dreaming of
>> the day that she and I will be together... an event which would undoubtedly
>> trigger the start of the rapture or ragnarok.
>>
>> --
>> Kevin M. (RPCV)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
> Kevin M. (RPCV)
>
>
> --
Kevin M. (RPCV)

-- 
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Re: [TV orNotTV] Debate #1

[Kevin M.]

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 10:50 AM PGage  wrote:

> Wallace did reset Biden’s clock several times, but only to get him back
> his original 2 minutes.
>
> The debate moderator has much less discretion than a K-12 teacher, or any
> standard employee. All they can do is whatever the two campaigns agreed to
> with the Commission. This was not an episode of Wallace’s Fox News Sunday,
> where he would have had more discretion.
>

> As I say, the only thing he could have done beyond what he did was tell
> Trump if he broke the rules he himself had agreed to one more time, he
> (Walllace) was going to end the debate and walk off the stage. Perhaps he
> should have, but no news person would like to make themselves the center of
> the story, and it’s a judgment call if that net benefits Trump anyway. I
> get why he didn’t do that.
>

As you’ve said, except that wasn’t all Wallace could have done. Within the
parameters of the debate rules, his job is to ensure fairness and equal
time for both men. He literally did not moderate; he asked questions then
sat back and did nothing. If moderators have no power, as you keep saying,
then there are no moderators... just assholes asking inane questions with
no follow-up or accountability. Last night, Chris Wallace acted like an
asshole instead of acting like a moderator.

>
> This is why I say the Commission needs to tell both campaigns that
> remaining debates will only be held if moderator has the ability to enforce
> rules already agreed to by turning off mikes.
>
> I will strongly dispute any attempt to spread blame for last night’s shit
> show. This was not due to Fox News, the degradations of News by cable tv,
> poor journalistic standards, three white old men, reliance on obsolete old
> school media (all of which And more I have seen blamed).
>
> The blame for what happened last night is completely and exclusively on
> Donald Trump.
>

Trump was Trump. Neither man on stage with Trump did a damned thing to stop
Trump from being Trump. In much the same way the media and the Democrats
enabled his first term in office, it seems as if they are going to enable
his second term as well.


> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 8:14 AM Kevin M.  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 7:29 AM PGage  wrote:
>>
>>> But what did he not do that you would have wanted him to do, that he
>>> could have done? As I say, short of walking off the stage, I don’t think
>>> there is anything.
>>>
>>
>> As a former teacher, there are basic skills that can be used to get even
>> the most recalcitrant child in line. As a former Hollywood flunkie, there
>> are basic skills that can be used to coax even the most entitled prig to
>> take direction. It isn’t that Trump does whatever he wants or says whatever
>> he wants... he doesn’t. The one thing he wanted last night was to be the
>> center of attention.
>>
>> California labor law is quite clear that all employees be given ten
>> uninterrupted minutes of break time for every four hours worked. If I’m on
>> my sixth minute of a break, and the boss asks me a work-related question,
>> the clock is reset and I get ten minutes starting from whenever the boss is
>> done talking to me. All Wallace had to do, the first time Trump interrupted
>> Biden, was to reset Biden’s two minute clock. Give Biden more uninterrupted
>> time. Make Biden the center of attention longer; Trump would have
>> capitulated.
>>
>> The problem is not that Trump doesn’t play by the rules; it’s that nobody
>> (especially the Democrats) makes him play by the rules. There were a dozen
>> other different things Wallace could have done, and even a few things Biden
>> could have done, but instead Trump was Trump. And America is all the worse
>> because of it.
>>
>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 7:19 AM Kevin M. 
>>> wrote:
>>>


 On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 3:54 AM Doug Eastick  wrote:

> I watched it. Actually the whole family sat down to watch it.  Fifteen
> minutes in, one left the room.  60 minutes in, two others left the room.
>
> Dana Bash of CNN called it a "shit show".
> Indeed it was.
>
> Chris Wallace failed, badly, as well.
>

 Chris Wallace failed so badly that Mike Wallace also failed, and he’s
 been dead eight years

>
>
>
> On Wed., Sep. 30, 2020, 12:38 a.m. Kevin M., 
> wrote:
>
>> I’m willing to entertain those still of the opinion that the debates
>> are useful for undecided voters, or that they help raise awareness of
>> issues or policy ideas. But I endured the entire debate tonight, so I’ve
>> got to tell you, if you’re going to defend debates after tonight, you’d
>> better come loaded for bear. Because whatever that goatf*ck was, it 
>> served
>> no purpose; it wasn’t even good theater. It was like watching The View, 
>> if
>> after watching The View I was then forced to vote for either Joy Behar or
>> Maghan McCain. --
>> Kevin M. (RPCV)
>>
>>

Re: [TV orNotTV] Debate #1

[Adam Bowie]

It sounds like the Presidential Debate Commission is going to change the
rules.

'The commission said Wednesday the debate “made clear that additional
structure should be added to the format of the remaining debates to ensure
a more orderly discussion of the issues.”'

https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-donald-trump-chris-wallace-campaigns-04ee2e8d54f456ee6cafdc5fe53a5d28

Of course, you change the rules and candidates can back out...



On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 6:50 PM PGage  wrote:

> Wallace did reset Biden’s clock several times, but only to get him back
> his original 2 minutes.
>
> The debate moderator has much less discretion than a K-12 teacher, or any
> standard employee. All they can do is whatever the two campaigns agreed to
> with the Commission. This was not an episode of Wallace’s Fox News Sunday,
> where he would have had more discretion.
>
> As I say, the only thing he could have done beyond what he did was tell
> Trump if he broke the rules he himself had agreed to one more time, he
> (Walllace) was going to end the debate and walk off the stage. Perhaps he
> should have, but no news person would like to make themselves the center of
> the story, and it’s a judgment call if that net benefits Trump anyway. I
> get why he didn’t do that.
>
> This is why I say the Commission needs to tell both campaigns that
> remaining debates will only be held if moderator has the ability to enforce
> rules already agreed to by turning off mikes.
>
> I will strongly dispute any attempt to spread blame for last night’s shit
> show. This was not due to Fox News, the degradations of News by cable tv,
> poor journalistic standards, three white old men, reliance on obsolete old
> school media (all of which And more I have seen blamed).
>
> The blame for what happened last night is completely and exclusively on
> Donald Trump.
>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 8:14 AM Kevin M.  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 7:29 AM PGage  wrote:
>>
>>> But what did he not do that you would have wanted him to do, that he
>>> could have done? As I say, short of walking off the stage, I don’t think
>>> there is anything.
>>>
>>
>> As a former teacher, there are basic skills that can be used to get even
>> the most recalcitrant child in line. As a former Hollywood flunkie, there
>> are basic skills that can be used to coax even the most entitled prig to
>> take direction. It isn’t that Trump does whatever he wants or says whatever
>> he wants... he doesn’t. The one thing he wanted last night was to be the
>> center of attention.
>>
>> California labor law is quite clear that all employees be given ten
>> uninterrupted minutes of break time for every four hours worked. If I’m on
>> my sixth minute of a break, and the boss asks me a work-related question,
>> the clock is reset and I get ten minutes starting from whenever the boss is
>> done talking to me. All Wallace had to do, the first time Trump interrupted
>> Biden, was to reset Biden’s two minute clock. Give Biden more uninterrupted
>> time. Make Biden the center of attention longer; Trump would have
>> capitulated.
>>
>> The problem is not that Trump doesn’t play by the rules; it’s that nobody
>> (especially the Democrats) makes him play by the rules. There were a dozen
>> other different things Wallace could have done, and even a few things Biden
>> could have done, but instead Trump was Trump. And America is all the worse
>> because of it.
>>
>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 7:19 AM Kevin M. 
>>> wrote:
>>>


 On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 3:54 AM Doug Eastick  wrote:

> I watched it. Actually the whole family sat down to watch it.  Fifteen
> minutes in, one left the room.  60 minutes in, two others left the room.
>
> Dana Bash of CNN called it a "shit show".
> Indeed it was.
>
> Chris Wallace failed, badly, as well.
>

 Chris Wallace failed so badly that Mike Wallace also failed, and he’s
 been dead eight years

>
>
>
> On Wed., Sep. 30, 2020, 12:38 a.m. Kevin M., 
> wrote:
>
>> I’m willing to entertain those still of the opinion that the debates
>> are useful for undecided voters, or that they help raise awareness of
>> issues or policy ideas. But I endured the entire debate tonight, so I’ve
>> got to tell you, if you’re going to defend debates after tonight, you’d
>> better come loaded for bear. Because whatever that goatf*ck was, it 
>> served
>> no purpose; it wasn’t even good theater. It was like watching The View, 
>> if
>> after watching The View I was then forced to vote for either Joy Behar or
>> Maghan McCain. --
>> Kevin M. (RPCV)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group.
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>> send an email to 

Re: [TV orNotTV] Debate #1

[PGage]

Wallace did reset Biden’s clock several times, but only to get him back his
original 2 minutes.

The debate moderator has much less discretion than a K-12 teacher, or any
standard employee. All they can do is whatever the two campaigns agreed to
with the Commission. This was not an episode of Wallace’s Fox News Sunday,
where he would have had more discretion.

As I say, the only thing he could have done beyond what he did was tell
Trump if he broke the rules he himself had agreed to one more time, he
(Walllace) was going to end the debate and walk off the stage. Perhaps he
should have, but no news person would like to make themselves the center of
the story, and it’s a judgment call if that net benefits Trump anyway. I
get why he didn’t do that.

This is why I say the Commission needs to tell both campaigns that
remaining debates will only be held if moderator has the ability to enforce
rules already agreed to by turning off mikes.

I will strongly dispute any attempt to spread blame for last night’s shit
show. This was not due to Fox News, the degradations of News by cable tv,
poor journalistic standards, three white old men, reliance on obsolete old
school media (all of which And more I have seen blamed).

The blame for what happened last night is completely and exclusively on
Donald Trump.

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 8:14 AM Kevin M.  wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 7:29 AM PGage  wrote:
>
>> But what did he not do that you would have wanted him to do, that he
>> could have done? As I say, short of walking off the stage, I don’t think
>> there is anything.
>>
>
> As a former teacher, there are basic skills that can be used to get even
> the most recalcitrant child in line. As a former Hollywood flunkie, there
> are basic skills that can be used to coax even the most entitled prig to
> take direction. It isn’t that Trump does whatever he wants or says whatever
> he wants... he doesn’t. The one thing he wanted last night was to be the
> center of attention.
>
> California labor law is quite clear that all employees be given ten
> uninterrupted minutes of break time for every four hours worked. If I’m on
> my sixth minute of a break, and the boss asks me a work-related question,
> the clock is reset and I get ten minutes starting from whenever the boss is
> done talking to me. All Wallace had to do, the first time Trump interrupted
> Biden, was to reset Biden’s two minute clock. Give Biden more uninterrupted
> time. Make Biden the center of attention longer; Trump would have
> capitulated.
>
> The problem is not that Trump doesn’t play by the rules; it’s that nobody
> (especially the Democrats) makes him play by the rules. There were a dozen
> other different things Wallace could have done, and even a few things Biden
> could have done, but instead Trump was Trump. And America is all the worse
> because of it.
>
>
>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 7:19 AM Kevin M. 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 3:54 AM Doug Eastick  wrote:
>>>
 I watched it. Actually the whole family sat down to watch it.  Fifteen
 minutes in, one left the room.  60 minutes in, two others left the room.

 Dana Bash of CNN called it a "shit show".
 Indeed it was.

 Chris Wallace failed, badly, as well.

>>>
>>> Chris Wallace failed so badly that Mike Wallace also failed, and he’s
>>> been dead eight years
>>>



 On Wed., Sep. 30, 2020, 12:38 a.m. Kevin M., 
 wrote:

> I’m willing to entertain those still of the opinion that the debates
> are useful for undecided voters, or that they help raise awareness of
> issues or policy ideas. But I endured the entire debate tonight, so I’ve
> got to tell you, if you’re going to defend debates after tonight, you’d
> better come loaded for bear. Because whatever that goatf*ck was, it served
> no purpose; it wasn’t even good theater. It was like watching The View, if
> after watching The View I was then forced to vote for either Joy Behar or
> Maghan McCain. --
> Kevin M. (RPCV)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "TVorNotTV" group.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>
>
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKgmY4BFJ8JxG9HOWiwFBQ13pu0fbrAwBUGm5682a4%2Bu%3DnZpOQ%40mail.gmail.com
> 
> .
>
>
>







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[TV orNotTV] Re: Two 70s music icons gone

[Marti Lawrence]

Lost a lot of talent with those two passing. Both were favorites of mine.  
May they rest in peace *(although Helen Reddy believed in reincarnation, so 
she may not rest for long.)*

~ Marti
On Wednesday, September 30, 2020 at 9:25:39 AM UTC-5 Bob Jersey wrote:

> Helen Reddy...
>
>
> https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/30/entertainment/helen-reddy-obit-trnd/index.html
>  (link)
>
> ... and Mac Davis...
>
>
> https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/30/entertainment/mac-davis-dead-intl-scli/index.html
>  (link)
>
> Both 78.
>
> B
>
>

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Debate #1

[Kevin M.]

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 7:29 AM PGage  wrote:

> But what did he not do that you would have wanted him to do, that he could
> have done? As I say, short of walking off the stage, I don’t think there is
> anything.
>

As a former teacher, there are basic skills that can be used to get even
the most recalcitrant child in line. As a former Hollywood flunkie, there
are basic skills that can be used to coax even the most entitled prig to
take direction. It isn’t that Trump does whatever he wants or says whatever
he wants... he doesn’t. The one thing he wanted last night was to be the
center of attention.

California labor law is quite clear that all employees be given ten
uninterrupted minutes of break time for every four hours worked. If I’m on
my sixth minute of a break, and the boss asks me a work-related question,
the clock is reset and I get ten minutes starting from whenever the boss is
done talking to me. All Wallace had to do, the first time Trump interrupted
Biden, was to reset Biden’s two minute clock. Give Biden more uninterrupted
time. Make Biden the center of attention longer; Trump would have
capitulated.

The problem is not that Trump doesn’t play by the rules; it’s that nobody
(especially the Democrats) makes him play by the rules. There were a dozen
other different things Wallace could have done, and even a few things Biden
could have done, but instead Trump was Trump. And America is all the worse
because of it.


> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 7:19 AM Kevin M.  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 3:54 AM Doug Eastick  wrote:
>>
>>> I watched it. Actually the whole family sat down to watch it.  Fifteen
>>> minutes in, one left the room.  60 minutes in, two others left the room.
>>>
>>> Dana Bash of CNN called it a "shit show".
>>> Indeed it was.
>>>
>>> Chris Wallace failed, badly, as well.
>>>
>>
>> Chris Wallace failed so badly that Mike Wallace also failed, and he’s
>> been dead eight years
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed., Sep. 30, 2020, 12:38 a.m. Kevin M., 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I’m willing to entertain those still of the opinion that the debates
 are useful for undecided voters, or that they help raise awareness of
 issues or policy ideas. But I endured the entire debate tonight, so I’ve
 got to tell you, if you’re going to defend debates after tonight, you’d
 better come loaded for bear. Because whatever that goatf*ck was, it served
 no purpose; it wasn’t even good theater. It was like watching The View, if
 after watching The View I was then forced to vote for either Joy Behar or
 Maghan McCain. --
 Kevin M. (RPCV)








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Re: [TV orNotTV] Debate #1

[Adam Bowie]

  9pm EST is unfortunately 2am BST, so while I thought about staying up to
watch at least some of the first debate - something I've done in the past -
this time around I'm pretty glad that I didn't completely disrupt my
sleeping patterns for the "shitshow" that emerged.

I can't bring myself to watch the whole thing, but I do wonder whether a
moderator needs to really take on a strict teacher role and not feel
subservient. My room, my rules.  I sometimes wonder whether the traditional
deference ("Mr President...") that reporters and interviewers give to the
President has to change.


Adam

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 3:29 PM PGage  wrote:

> But what did he not do that you would have wanted him to do, that he could
> have done? As I say, short of walking off the stage, I don’t think there is
> anything.
>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 7:19 AM Kevin M.  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 3:54 AM Doug Eastick  wrote:
>>
>>> I watched it. Actually the whole family sat down to watch it.  Fifteen
>>> minutes in, one left the room.  60 minutes in, two others left the room.
>>>
>>> Dana Bash of CNN called it a "shit show".
>>> Indeed it was.
>>>
>>> Chris Wallace failed, badly, as well.
>>>
>>
>> Chris Wallace failed so badly that Mike Wallace also failed, and he’s
>> been dead eight years
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed., Sep. 30, 2020, 12:38 a.m. Kevin M., 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I’m willing to entertain those still of the opinion that the debates
 are useful for undecided voters, or that they help raise awareness of
 issues or policy ideas. But I endured the entire debate tonight, so I’ve
 got to tell you, if you’re going to defend debates after tonight, you’d
 better come loaded for bear. Because whatever that goatf*ck was, it served
 no purpose; it wasn’t even good theater. It was like watching The View, if
 after watching The View I was then forced to vote for either Joy Behar or
 Maghan McCain. --
 Kevin M. (RPCV)








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>>> --
>> Kevin M. (RPCV)
>>
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Re: [TV orNotTV] Debate #1

[PGage]

But what did he not do that you would have wanted him to do, that he could
have done? As I say, short of walking off the stage, I don’t think there is
anything.

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 7:19 AM Kevin M.  wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 3:54 AM Doug Eastick  wrote:
>
>> I watched it. Actually the whole family sat down to watch it.  Fifteen
>> minutes in, one left the room.  60 minutes in, two others left the room.
>>
>> Dana Bash of CNN called it a "shit show".
>> Indeed it was.
>>
>> Chris Wallace failed, badly, as well.
>>
>
> Chris Wallace failed so badly that Mike Wallace also failed, and he’s been
> dead eight years
>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed., Sep. 30, 2020, 12:38 a.m. Kevin M., 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I’m willing to entertain those still of the opinion that the debates are
>>> useful for undecided voters, or that they help raise awareness of issues or
>>> policy ideas. But I endured the entire debate tonight, so I’ve got to tell
>>> you, if you’re going to defend debates after tonight, you’d better come
>>> loaded for bear. Because whatever that goatf*ck was, it served no purpose;
>>> it wasn’t even good theater. It was like watching The View, if after
>>> watching The View I was then forced to vote for either Joy Behar or Maghan
>>> McCain. --
>>> Kevin M. (RPCV)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
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>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> .
>>
>>
>> --
> Kevin M. (RPCV)
>
>
>
>
>
>
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[TV orNotTV] Two 70s music icons gone

['Bob Jersey' via TVorNotTV]

Helen Reddy...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/30/entertainment/helen-reddy-obit-trnd/index.html
 (link)

... and Mac Davis...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/30/entertainment/mac-davis-dead-intl-scli/index.html
 (link)

Both 78.

B

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Debate #1

[Kevin M.]

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 3:54 AM Doug Eastick  wrote:

> I watched it. Actually the whole family sat down to watch it.  Fifteen
> minutes in, one left the room.  60 minutes in, two others left the room.
>
> Dana Bash of CNN called it a "shit show".
> Indeed it was.
>
> Chris Wallace failed, badly, as well.
>

Chris Wallace failed so badly that Mike Wallace also failed, and he’s been
dead eight years

>
>
>
> On Wed., Sep. 30, 2020, 12:38 a.m. Kevin M., 
> wrote:
>
>> I’m willing to entertain those still of the opinion that the debates are
>> useful for undecided voters, or that they help raise awareness of issues or
>> policy ideas. But I endured the entire debate tonight, so I’ve got to tell
>> you, if you’re going to defend debates after tonight, you’d better come
>> loaded for bear. Because whatever that goatf*ck was, it served no purpose;
>> it wasn’t even good theater. It was like watching The View, if after
>> watching The View I was then forced to vote for either Joy Behar or Maghan
>> McCain. --
>> Kevin M. (RPCV)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "TVorNotTV" group.
>>
>>
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>> email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>
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>> 
>> .
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
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> 
> .
>
>
> --
Kevin M. (RPCV)

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Debate #1

[PGage]

Mad World is one of the first films I remember ever seeing in the theater.
I have seen it a few times since. It was better when I was 4. Mermaid was
on almost constant video loop when my girls were young. There was a time I
could sing the songs word for word in my sleep, like a nail in my brain.
Either would be more enjoyable than the obscenity we saw last night.

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 6:46 AM Diner  wrote:

> Instead of the debate, I watched "The Little Mermaid" last night.
> I had never seen it. Sweet movie. Good songs. Check it out.
> I know at this point in life (I'll be 55 in a few days) that I need to get
> close to eight hours of sleep each night, so I should be in bed around 10.
> And I knew that watching Donald Trump for 90 minutes would raise my blood
> pressure so high that I would have a hard time falling asleep.
> The clips I saw on the news this morning, and the reaction to the debate
> I've read online, have convinced me that I made the right choice.
>
> P.S. Last year on my birthday, my sister got me the blu-ray of "It's a
> Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World." I think I'll watch that one on election night.
> Seems appropriate.
>
> On Wednesday, September 30, 2020 at 9:36:03 AM UTC-4 PGage wrote:
>
>> Reasonable people can disagree about the value of televised presidential
>> debates, but what happened last night has no relevance to that discussion.
>> That was not a debate, because one of the three  (the two candidates and
>> the moderator) refused to participate in the debate. Trump violated every
>> norm and value related to this process. You can’t debate a muddy pig
>> without getting dirty, but I thought Biden did as well as could be
>> expected. I don’t blame Wallace; short of walking out (which maybe he
>> should have done) it’s not clear what else he or anyone else could do.
>>
>> Trump made clear that he expects to lose the election, and that his plan
>> is to invalidate the process and count on his newly packed SCOTUS to back
>> him up. At that point, comparisons to 1933 Germany will be complete.
>>
>> The Commission needs to inform both candidates that the moderators of
>> remaining “events” will have the power to enforce the rules both campaigns
>> agreed to, including turning off microphones when the other side has the
>> floor, when time has expired, or when candidates ignore the direction of
>> the moderator. If they don’t want to accept that they should not show up.
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 9:38 PM Kevin M.  wrote:
>>
>>> I’m willing to entertain those still of the opinion that the debates are
>>> useful for undecided voters, or that they help raise awareness of issues or
>>> policy ideas. But I endured the entire debate tonight, so I’ve got to tell
>>> you, if you’re going to defend debates after tonight, you’d better come
>>> loaded for bear. Because whatever that goatf*ck was, it served no purpose;
>>> it wasn’t even good theater. It was like watching The View, if after
>>> watching The View I was then forced to vote for either Joy Behar or Maghan
>>> McCain. --
>>> Kevin M. (RPCV)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group.
>>>
>>>
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>>> an email to tvornottv+...@googlegroups.com.
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>>>
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
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>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>> Sent from Gmail Mobile
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
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Re: [TV orNotTV] Debate #1

[Diner]

Instead of the debate, I watched "The Little Mermaid" last night.
I had never seen it. Sweet movie. Good songs. Check it out.
I know at this point in life (I'll be 55 in a few days) that I need to get 
close to eight hours of sleep each night, so I should be in bed around 10. 
And I knew that watching Donald Trump for 90 minutes would raise my blood 
pressure so high that I would have a hard time falling asleep.
The clips I saw on the news this morning, and the reaction to the debate 
I've read online, have convinced me that I made the right choice.

P.S. Last year on my birthday, my sister got me the blu-ray of "It's a Mad, 
Mad, Mad, Mad World." I think I'll watch that one on election night. Seems 
appropriate.

On Wednesday, September 30, 2020 at 9:36:03 AM UTC-4 PGage wrote:

> Reasonable people can disagree about the value of televised presidential 
> debates, but what happened last night has no relevance to that discussion. 
> That was not a debate, because one of the three  (the two candidates and 
> the moderator) refused to participate in the debate. Trump violated every 
> norm and value related to this process. You can’t debate a muddy pig 
> without getting dirty, but I thought Biden did as well as could be 
> expected. I don’t blame Wallace; short of walking out (which maybe he 
> should have done) it’s not clear what else he or anyone else could do.
>
> Trump made clear that he expects to lose the election, and that his plan 
> is to invalidate the process and count on his newly packed SCOTUS to back 
> him up. At that point, comparisons to 1933 Germany will be complete.
>
> The Commission needs to inform both candidates that the moderators of 
> remaining “events” will have the power to enforce the rules both campaigns 
> agreed to, including turning off microphones when the other side has the 
> floor, when time has expired, or when candidates ignore the direction of 
> the moderator. If they don’t want to accept that they should not show up.
>
> On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 9:38 PM Kevin M.  wrote:
>
>> I’m willing to entertain those still of the opinion that the debates are 
>> useful for undecided voters, or that they help raise awareness of issues or 
>> policy ideas. But I endured the entire debate tonight, so I’ve got to tell 
>> you, if you’re going to defend debates after tonight, you’d better come 
>> loaded for bear. Because whatever that goatf*ck was, it served no purpose; 
>> it wasn’t even good theater. It was like watching The View, if after 
>> watching The View I was then forced to vote for either Joy Behar or Maghan 
>> McCain. -- 
>> Kevin M. (RPCV)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "TVorNotTV" group.
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to tvornottv+...@googlegroups.com.
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>>
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKgmY4BFJ8JxG9HOWiwFBQ13pu0fbrAwBUGm5682a4%2Bu%3DnZpOQ%40mail.gmail.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>
>> -- 
> Sent from Gmail Mobile
>

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Debate #1

[Paul Murray]

>   Chris Wallace failed, badly, as well.  

While I have some mixed feelings about Wallace, short of being armed with a 
cattle prod and the ability to turn off the mics, I don't know who could 
have done better. When one side is determined to ignore all the agreed-upon 
rules, what is the other one and the moderator supposed to do?

I was watching a high-volume thread on on Reddit's r/politics, and there 
were lots of complaints about Wallace interrupting Biden. Afterward, I 
peeked into some conservative subs, and the complaining was how it was 
unfair that Trump had to debate both Biden and Wallace.

Now imagine being the upcoming moderators (Steve Scully and Kristen Welker) 
watching last night.



On Wednesday, September 30, 2020 at 6:54:34 AM UTC-4 Doug Eastick wrote:

> I watched it. Actually the whole family sat down to watch it.  Fifteen 
> minutes in, one left the room.  60 minutes in, two others left the room. 
>
> Dana Bash of CNN called it a "shit show".
> Indeed it was.
>
> Chris Wallace failed, badly, as well.
>
>
>
> On Wed., Sep. 30, 2020, 12:38 a.m. Kevin M.,  wrote:
>
>> I’m willing to entertain those still of the opinion that the debates are 
>> useful for undecided voters, or that they help raise awareness of issues or 
>> policy ideas. But I endured the entire debate tonight, so I’ve got to tell 
>> you, if you’re going to defend debates after tonight, you’d better come 
>> loaded for bear. Because whatever that goatf*ck was, it served no purpose; 
>> it wasn’t even good theater. It was like watching The View, if after 
>> watching The View I was then forced to vote for either Joy Behar or Maghan 
>> McCain. -- 
>> Kevin M. (RPCV)
>>
>> -- 
>>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "TVorNotTV" group.
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>> email to tvornottv+...@googlegroups.com.
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Debate #1

[PGage]

Reasonable people can disagree about the value of televised presidential
debates, but what happened last night has no relevance to that discussion.
That was not a debate, because one of the three  (the two candidates and
the moderator) refused to participate in the debate. Trump violated every
norm and value related to this process. You can’t debate a muddy pig
without getting dirty, but I thought Biden did as well as could be
expected. I don’t blame Wallace; short of walking out (which maybe he
should have done) it’s not clear what else he or anyone else could do.

Trump made clear that he expects to lose the election, and that his plan is
to invalidate the process and count on his newly packed SCOTUS to back him
up. At that point, comparisons to 1933 Germany will be complete.

The Commission needs to inform both candidates that the moderators of
remaining “events” will have the power to enforce the rules both campaigns
agreed to, including turning off microphones when the other side has the
floor, when time has expired, or when candidates ignore the direction of
the moderator. If they don’t want to accept that they should not show up.

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 9:38 PM Kevin M.  wrote:

> I’m willing to entertain those still of the opinion that the debates are
> useful for undecided voters, or that they help raise awareness of issues or
> policy ideas. But I endured the entire debate tonight, so I’ve got to tell
> you, if you’re going to defend debates after tonight, you’d better come
> loaded for bear. Because whatever that goatf*ck was, it served no purpose;
> it wasn’t even good theater. It was like watching The View, if after
> watching The View I was then forced to vote for either Joy Behar or Maghan
> McCain. --
> Kevin M. (RPCV)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "TVorNotTV" group.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>
>
> To view this discussion on the web visit
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> 
> .
>
>
> --
Sent from Gmail Mobile

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Re: [TV orNotTV] IYC: Familiar actress in annoying advert

[Jon Delfin]

And she actually is someone who's never been that big a star, and who,
according to her IMDb page, hasn't done anything (not counting a Rachael
Ray appearance) in over ten years. So she's basically a civilian by now.
Can we stop this thread?

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 9:00 AM Diner  wrote:

> And she actually *is* a breast cancer survivor.
>
> On Wednesday, September 30, 2020 at 8:14:23 AM UTC-4 Doug Fields wrote:
>
>> The information on the link is obviously out of date.  I've seen it
>> several times just in the last few days.
>>
>> Doug Fields
>> Tampa, FL
>> --
>> *From:* tvor...@googlegroups.com  on behalf of
>> Mark Jeffries 
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 30, 2020 7:51 AM
>> *To:* tvor...@googlegroups.com 
>> *Subject:* Re: [TV orNotTV] IYC: Familiar actress in annoying advert
>>
>> The link itself says that the ad hasn't aired since the end of 2018.
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 29, 2020, 8:32 AM 'Bob Jersey' via TVorNotTV <
>> tvor...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> Khrystyne Haje ("Head of the Class") plugging cancer drug Verzenio
>> damned-well daily on Peacock... apparently uncredited here:
>> https://www.ispot.tv/ad/w4VI/verzenio-relentless (link)
>>
>> B
>>
>> --
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>> "TVorNotTV" group.
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>> email to tvornottv+...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/825a3894-1ee6-4868-88cf-2a4a368a2da7n%40googlegroups.com
>> 
>> .
>>
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>> 
>> .
>>
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Re: [TV orNotTV] IYC: Familiar actress in annoying advert

[Diner]

And she actually *is* a breast cancer survivor.

On Wednesday, September 30, 2020 at 8:14:23 AM UTC-4 Doug Fields wrote:

> The information on the link is obviously out of date.  I've seen it 
> several times just in the last few days.
>
> Doug Fields
> Tampa, FL
> --
> *From:* tvor...@googlegroups.com  on behalf of 
> Mark Jeffries 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 30, 2020 7:51 AM
> *To:* tvor...@googlegroups.com 
> *Subject:* Re: [TV orNotTV] IYC: Familiar actress in annoying advert 
>  
> The link itself says that the ad hasn't aired since the end of 2018.
>
> On Tue, Sep 29, 2020, 8:32 AM 'Bob Jersey' via TVorNotTV <
> tvor...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> Khrystyne Haje ("Head of the Class") plugging cancer drug Verzenio 
> damned-well daily on Peacock... apparently uncredited here: 
> https://www.ispot.tv/ad/w4VI/verzenio-relentless (link) 
>
> B
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "TVorNotTV" group.
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> email to tvornottv+...@googlegroups.com.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/825a3894-1ee6-4868-88cf-2a4a368a2da7n%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
>
> -- 
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>  
> 
> .
>

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Re: [TV orNotTV] IYC: Familiar actress in annoying advert

[Doug Fields]

The information on the link is obviously out of date.  I've seen it several 
times just in the last few days.

Doug Fields
Tampa, FL

From: tvornottv@googlegroups.com  on behalf of Mark 
Jeffries 
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2020 7:51 AM
To: tvornottv@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Re: [TV orNotTV] IYC: Familiar actress in annoying advert

The link itself says that the ad hasn't aired since the end of 2018.

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020, 8:32 AM 'Bob Jersey' via TVorNotTV 
mailto:tvornottv@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
Khrystyne Haje ("Head of the Class") plugging cancer drug Verzenio damned-well 
daily on Peacock... apparently uncredited here: 
https://www.ispot.tv/ad/w4VI/verzenio-relentless (link)

B


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Re: [TV orNotTV] IYC: Familiar actress in annoying advert

[Mark Jeffries]

The link itself says that the ad hasn't aired since the end of 2018.

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020, 8:32 AM 'Bob Jersey' via TVorNotTV <
tvornottv@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Khrystyne Haje ("Head of the Class") plugging cancer drug Verzenio
> damned-well daily on Peacock... apparently uncredited here:
> https://www.ispot.tv/ad/w4VI/verzenio-relentless (link)
>
> B
>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Debate #1

[Doug Eastick]

I watched it. Actually the whole family sat down to watch it.  Fifteen
minutes in, one left the room.  60 minutes in, two others left the room.

Dana Bash of CNN called it a "shit show".
Indeed it was.

Chris Wallace failed, badly, as well.



On Wed., Sep. 30, 2020, 12:38 a.m. Kevin M., 
wrote:

> I’m willing to entertain those still of the opinion that the debates are
> useful for undecided voters, or that they help raise awareness of issues or
> policy ideas. But I endured the entire debate tonight, so I’ve got to tell
> you, if you’re going to defend debates after tonight, you’d better come
> loaded for bear. Because whatever that goatf*ck was, it served no purpose;
> it wasn’t even good theater. It was like watching The View, if after
> watching The View I was then forced to vote for either Joy Behar or Maghan
> McCain. --
> Kevin M. (RPCV)
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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> 
> .
>

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