On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 7:01 PM PGage <pga...@gmail.com> wrote: > So, want to expand a little on this, because it’s important (and probably > because I am now in Day 4 of my third evacuation in 4 weeks, with a scary > ass fire 2,5 miles from m front door). >
First of all, sorry you’re having to endure that. > > Donald Trump is an evil, racist, misogynistic narcissistic conman. But he > has been absolutely transparent. He is EXACTLY the president he told us he > was going to be. Every horrible thing he has done, trivial and profound, > from lying about the size of his inaugurations crowd to the monkey > masturbation and shit throwing display he engaged in last night, is > consistent with the version of himself he loudly and repeatedly presented > himself to be from the minute he took that ridiculous ride down the > escalator. > > Americans did not elect Trump die to some failure of aggressive, incisive > investigative journalism in 2015-2016. Indeed, it is likely true that there > has never been a US President that voters knew more clearly and fully what > he was going to be like as a candidate than Trump. Sure, the NYT and MSNBC > and CNN all gave him more oxygen than he deserved, but he did not need any > of it. He is not president because Joe and Mika played foodies with him for > 15 months. He is President because a critical mass (not a majority, but > then, that is not required) of Americans wanted exactly the kind of > President Donald Trump has been, a White Nationalist who fights to reclaim > whit, male, heteronormative privilege and troll liberals who aspire for > Obama and King’s Beloved Community. > > With all due respect, anyone who blames mediocre journalism for Trumpmis > trying to let the country off the hook. We have exactly the President we > wanted, and had the media done an even better job of telling us who he was, > he would have earned even more votes. > You’re not wrong about any of that. Americans voted the bastard into office (or at least the electoral college did). But I maintain the reason so many did so is because the media sold more papers and got bigger ratings when the focus was on the crazy TV personality instead of any of the other candidates. Trump got more ink... they made him the front runner. It was the same confluence of events that begat Governor “the body” in Minnesota and Governor “Terminator” in California. All of their messages were nearly identical: “The career politicians haven’t done anything for you, so vote for me.” Serious journalists would challenge the premise, but eventually they have way because it was more fun to watch politicians flailing about trying to defend themselves. I could go on but there’s no need... it happens on TV every damned day. “Coming up, we discuss the inflammatory Trump Tweet of the day,” or “Here’s a panel discussion to discuss whether the racist thing Trump said is racist.” Meanwhile “Sleepy Joe” isn’t getting mentioned in the news because he refuses to be deliberately provocative. So the lead story is always Trump. Changing the subject back to last night’s goatf*ck, since I’d already tortured myself watching it, today I compounded the torture by tuning into the FoxNews audio stream on my Sirius app to get their perspective on the debate. The network’s take on the debate was a textbook example of denial. Nobody denied that Trump was wrong to be an interrupting asshole... seriously, FoxNews pundits all agreed... but the reason they thought it was wrong was markedly different. The FoxNews consensus was that if Biden had been allowed to speak, he would have embarrassed himself, so because Trump interrupted him, he was actually doing Biden a favor. So they weren’t mad at the embarrassment Trump made of himself and the debate process; they were mad Trump didn’t let Biden embarrass himself more. The one thing Biden said during the debate that FoxNews thought was wrong was when he refused to say whether he’d pack the Supreme Court if elected, because he didn’t want his answer to be a big story. So instead of his answer being a big story, his non-answer became their “gotcha” moment. “He refused to say he wouldn’t do it, so he’s definitely going to do it.” The other thing worth mentioning about FoxNews is that although it is widely known that Biden is far from the fringe, radical leftist that a Bernie Sanders or AOC might be, FoxNews is painting him as a candidate who is beholden to the extreme left and would force an extreme left agenda if elected. It’s an interesting (baseless) strategy, to imply a moderate/centrist would unleash extreme legislation... time will tell if it is working. > > On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 5:50 PM PGage <pga...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I think I meant to type “raped”, and I assume I can include all of us in >> that. >> >> I’m not defending bad journalists (most on TV) or weak politicians. I am >> saying Trump is something different. >> >> It’s a delusion that better journalists would have prevented Trump. We >> the people got what we deserved >> >> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 1:25 PM Doug Fields <d...@flids.net> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> “Who you callin’ ‘we’, Kemosabe?” >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I’m not familiar with the term “taped” as it applies to intoxicated >>> people, so I can’t judge there…but many of us (the “we” that apparently >>> excludes you) absolutely **do** blame journalists and other politicians >>> for not doing their >>> >>> jobs and getting Trumped. Journalists are supposed to hold politicians’ >>> feet to the fire, and make them accountable for their actions. Politicians >>> are supposed to work for the betterment of the country and its citizens. >>> Too many of both groups have been >>> >>> shirking those duties for the last four years. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Doug Fields >>> >>> >>> Tampa, FL >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* tvornottv@googlegroups.com <tvornottv@googlegroups.com> >>> >>> *On Behalf Of *PGage >>> >>> >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 30, 2020 4:16 PM >>> >>> >>> *To:* tvornottv@googlegroups.com >>> >>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [TV orNotTV] Debate #1 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I specifically resist your last point. Yes the media is lazy and ratings >>> driven; yes Democrats are weak and cowardly. Those are serious but baseline >>> problems. Trump is something qualitatively new and toxic. We don’t blame >>> intoxicated people >>> >>> for getting taped; we don’t blame journalists and other politicians (R & >>> D) for getting Trumped. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 12:36 PM Kevin M. <drunkbastar...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 10:50 AM PGage <pga...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Wallace did reset Biden’s clock several times, but only to get him back >>> his original 2 minutes. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> The debate moderator has much less discretion than a K-12 teacher, or >>> any standard employee. All they can do is whatever the two campaigns agreed >>> to with the Commission. This was not an episode of Wallace’s Fox News >>> Sunday, where he would >>> >>> have had more discretion. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> As I say, the only thing he could have done beyond what he did was tell >>> Trump if he broke the rules he himself had agreed to one more time, he >>> (Walllace) was going to end the debate and walk off the stage. Perhaps he >>> should have, but no >>> >>> news person would like to make themselves the center of the story, and >>> it’s a judgment call if that net benefits Trump anyway. I get why he didn’t >>> do that. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> As you’ve said, except that wasn’t all Wallace could have done. Within >>> the parameters of the debate rules, his job is to ensure fairness and equal >>> time for both men. He literally did not moderate; he asked questions then >>> sat back and did >>> >>> nothing. If moderators have no power, as you keep saying, then there are >>> no moderators... just assholes asking inane questions with no follow-up or >>> accountability. Last night, Chris Wallace acted like an asshole instead of >>> acting like a moderator. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> This is why I say the Commission needs to tell both campaigns that >>> remaining debates will only be held if moderator has the ability to enforce >>> rules already agreed to by turning off mikes. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I will strongly dispute any attempt to spread blame for last night’s >>> shit show. This was not due to Fox News, the degradations of News by cable >>> tv, poor journalistic standards, three white old men, reliance on obsolete >>> old school media >>> >>> (all of which And more I have seen blamed). >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> The blame for what happened last night is completely and exclusively on >>> Donald Trump. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Trump was Trump. Neither man on stage with Trump did a damned thing to >>> stop Trump from being Trump. In much the same way the media and the >>> Democrats enabled his first term in office, it seems as if they are going >>> to enable his second term >>> >>> as well. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 8:14 AM Kevin M. <drunkbastar...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 7:29 AM PGage <pga...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> But what did he not do that you would have wanted him to do, that he >>> could have done? As I say, short of walking off the stage, I don’t think >>> there is anything. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> As a former teacher, there are basic skills that can be used to get even >>> the most recalcitrant child in line. As a former Hollywood flunkie, there >>> are basic skills that can be used to coax even the most entitled prig to >>> take direction. >>> >>> It isn’t that Trump does whatever he wants or says whatever he wants... >>> he doesn’t. The one thing he wanted last night was to be the center of >>> attention. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> California labor law is quite clear that all employees be given ten >>> uninterrupted minutes of break time for every four hours worked. If I’m on >>> my sixth minute of a break, and the boss asks me a work-related question, >>> the clock is reset >>> >>> and I get ten minutes starting from whenever the boss is done talking to >>> me. All Wallace had to do, the first time Trump interrupted Biden, was to >>> reset Biden’s two minute clock. Give Biden more uninterrupted time. Make >>> Biden the center of attention longer; >>> >>> Trump would have capitulated. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> The problem is not that Trump doesn’t play by the rules; it’s that >>> nobody (especially the Democrats) makes him play by the rules. There were a >>> dozen other different things Wallace could have done, and even a few things >>> Biden could have >>> >>> done, but instead Trump was Trump. And America is all the worse because >>> of it. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 7:19 AM Kevin M. <drunkbastar...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 3:54 AM Doug Eastick <east...@mcd.on.ca> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I watched it. Actually the whole family sat down to watch it. Fifteen >>> minutes in, one left the room. 60 minutes in, two others left the room. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Dana Bash of CNN called it a "shit show". >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Indeed it was. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Chris Wallace failed, badly, as well. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Chris Wallace failed so badly that Mike Wallace also failed, and he’s >>> been dead eight years >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed., Sep. 30, 2020, 12:38 a.m. Kevin M., <drunkbastar...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I’m willing to entertain those still of the opinion that the debates are >>> useful for undecided voters, or that they help raise awareness of issues or >>> policy ideas. But I endured the entire debate tonight, so I’ve got to tell >>> you, if you’re >>> >>> going to defend debates after tonight, you’d better come loaded for >>> bear. Because whatever that goatf*ck was, it served no purpose; it wasn’t >>> even good theater. It was like watching The View, if after watching The >>> View I was then forced to vote for either >>> >>> Joy Behar or Maghan McCain. -- >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Kevin M. (RPCV) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to >>> >>> tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> >>> >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKgmY4BFJ8JxG9HOWiwFBQ13pu0fbrAwBUGm5682a4%2Bu%3DnZpOQ%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKgmY4BFJ8JxG9HOWiwFBQ13pu0fbrAwBUGm5682a4%2Bu%3DnZpOQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to >>> >>> tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> >>> >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAK5Q1Boy%3DCGp35JbHXhvgwUp-zhgQcL_QfTbfGj4tf4J4F8oJg%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAK5Q1Boy%3DCGp35JbHXhvgwUp-zhgQcL_QfTbfGj4tf4J4F8oJg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Kevin M. 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(RPCV) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to >>> >>> tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> >>> >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKgmY4C8BKYPXG4aVa0%2BDDDxq9BN45o_%3DacUgdLk9noGsfPhVQ%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKgmY4C8BKYPXG4aVa0%2BDDDxq9BN45o_%3DacUgdLk9noGsfPhVQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from Gmail Mobile >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>> >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to >>> >>> tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> >>> >>> >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> >>> >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkY%2BTTeEOCYxqtx_tKNY4UqOibhAFrRLQY2JrtNq92kuZCw%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkY%2BTTeEOCYxqtx_tKNY4UqOibhAFrRLQY2JrtNq92kuZCw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>> >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> >>> >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/BN6PR14MB161940562C38A46BA05B5192C6330%40BN6PR14MB1619.namprd14.prod.outlook.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/BN6PR14MB161940562C38A46BA05B5192C6330%40BN6PR14MB1619.namprd14.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >>> >>> -- >> Sent from Gmail Mobile >> >> >> -- > Sent from Gmail Mobile > > > > > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TVorNotTV" group. > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkYK5ag9wYLwjsyhA-6fNmm0hDsKdXDULXDqQOJapANNnTA%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkYK5ag9wYLwjsyhA-6fNmm0hDsKdXDULXDqQOJapANNnTA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > > -- Kevin M. 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