[U2] UniVerse Resize 30
I had an interesting call from a customer this morning - he was resizing some files, making them Dynamic using the command RESIZE FILENAME 30 * * (normally you wouldn't enter the * * after 30) But then his session was comsuming all of the CPU for over 20 minutes (until I killed it). Just curious if anyone knows what the system was trying to do? We resized using the correct command format and everything is fine. The files in question were type 18, empty and very small modulo 11. Thanks, Mark Uv 10 Windows ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may be subject to copyright. They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this message in error please notify AFS immediately by return email. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of AFS, except where an authorized sender specifically states them to be the views of AFS. It is your responsibility to verify this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. AFS accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] AES Encryption Of CC Numbers
Hey Gary, I can't find you on LinkedIn anymore. Love to catchup with you. I lost your contact information. Please email me at jlawre...@nosco.com or jlawrence1...@yahoo.com John Lawrence -- View this message in context: http://u2-universe-unidata.1073795.n5.nabble.com/AES-Encryption-Of-CC-Numbers-tp40661p41984.html Sent from the U2 - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
[U2] UD hot backup/RFS options
We had a server crash 4pm yesterday (very unusual for IBM RS6000) and after guide/fixfile we had so much data corruption that a restore from previous days backup was needed. The question for the list is if anyone is successfully doing RFS or other incremental type backups? A quick google search shows a lot of people asking questions, but not a lot of it works great success stories. Looking to get a sense of real world usage before heading down that road, and potentially paying for consulting to implement. Any input, opinions, advice appreciated! Ian - IMPORTANT NOTICE: This message is intended only for the addressee and may contain confidential, privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not use, copy or disclose any information contained in the message. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] UD hot backup/RFS options
We've been using RFS with Replication for years. Our entire DB is setup with RFS and is replicated, about 300GB. (AIX 7.1 UniData 7.2.13) The RFS Logs are on a separate set of RAID 10 Disks, and doesn't seem to add that much overhead although we are utilizing SSDs now. GUIDE Runs pretty fast 1hr. We run a triple mirror setup and split off the mirror nightly to backup. Any crashes (rare), RFS has been able to recover from. If needed we could run off of our DR System or copy the data back again (couple of hours). Ty Haller SEFCU Lead Administrator - System Services thal...@sefcu.com -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Baakkonen, Rodney A (Rod) 46K Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 11:19 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] UD hot backup/RFS options We have used it for about 15 years. I can remember the last time we crashed (Solaris). IF the redo logs look ok and the Unidata logs don't have issues, I don't run guide on our RFS files. We only have our largest files defined as RFS (10 gigabytes to almost 100 gigabytes). We did not put in the begin/end transaction statements in our code. So RFS uses a timing mechanism to figure out when to write data out. There is a performance difference, as you are doing extra i/o for each RFS read. But we can usually fully recover our site in a couple of hours. We are on Unidata 7.1 and hope to move to Unidata 7.2.13 soon. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of McGowan, Ian Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 9:33 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: [U2] UD hot backup/RFS options We had a server crash 4pm yesterday (very unusual for IBM RS6000) and after guide/fixfile we had so much data corruption that a restore from previous days backup was needed. The question for the list is if anyone is successfully doing RFS or other incremental type backups? A quick google search shows a lot of people asking questions, but not a lot of it works great success stories. Looking to get a sense of real world usage before heading down that road, and potentially paying for consulting to implement. Any input, opinions, advice appreciated! Ian - IMPORTANT NOTICE: This message is intended only for the addressee and may contain confidential, privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not use, copy or disclose any information contained in the message. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: If you have received this email in error, please immediately notify the sender by e-mail at the address shown. This email transmission may contain confidential information. This information is intended only for the use of the individual(s) or entity to whom it is intended even if addressed incorrectly. Please delete it from your files if you are not the intended recipient. Thank you for your compliance. Copyright (c) 2013 Cigna === === ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users This message may contain confidential information and is intended for the sole purpose of communication with the addressee. Dissemination or publication in any format is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error please notify SEFCU immediately. Help save a tree. Please print this e-mail only if it is truly necessary. Thank you. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Unfortunately, in one case I hired a friend. Needless to say, it was one of the worst decisions I've made. Not only lost a friend, but lost a lot of customer confidence by her attitude, poor workmanship, and unwillingness to adapt. On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 7:01 AM, Robert Frailey rfrai...@utahmed.comwrote: Wow, seen a lot of that and managers trying to get friends hired to create a perfect office society. quit hiring backstabbing chaff with their own agendas. Robert - Original Message - From: Kevin King ke...@precisonline.com To: Susan Joslyn sjos...@sjplus.com; U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Susan, yes. I've been very open in my interviews, and it's netted significantly regrettable results. So this time I'm going for people who can get behind and contribute to the common cause as soon after hire as possible. I don't have any aspirations of hiring for life, though I certainly do endeavor to have that kind of an environment for a person who wants that sort of thing. I just need to quit hiring backstabbing chaff with their own agendas. On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Susan Joslyn sjos...@sjplus.com wrote: Kevin, Not that I have any real experience - at least not for what seems like a lifetime - with hiring. But my instinct might be to let the applicant tell me whatever they want. You know, just an open ended Tell me what you would like me to know about your skills, your ambitions and your work ethic. Probably that's an approach you've already tried. Susan -Original Message- From: mailto:u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.orgu2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org u2-users-bounces@listserver.**u2ug.orgu2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org[ mailto:u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.orgu2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org mailto:u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.orgu2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Leverett, Brendon Sent: Tuesday, 8 October 2013 1:40 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Interviewer: What is one of your weak points? Applicant: My honesty. Interviewer: I would have thought that was a strong point. Applicant: I don't give a %^* what you think you stupid ^^%$ __**_ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/**mailman/listinfo/u2-usershttp://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users __**_ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/**mailman/listinfo/u2-usershttp://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users __**_ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/**mailman/listinfo/u2-usershttp://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] UniVerse Resize 30
What's even more twisted, is I tried the same scenario on my development box (Linux uv 10.2), and the RESIZE XXX 30 * * actually corrupted my test file LIST XXX XXX... Read operation failure. Internal file corruption detected. File must be repaired. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of LeRoy Dreyfuss Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 9:55 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] UniVerse Resize 30 What resize should have done was create the dynamic file, but preserve the current modulo of 11 and the group size. Perhaps it got itself in a twist because it was coming from a static-hashed structure and somehow couldn't work out the mod and sep like it should have. I am pretty sure this used to work back in 10.1.x- we had requests to make that work correctly. Cheers, LeRoy On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 8:50 AM, Mark Eastwood ma...@afsi.com wrote: I had an interesting call from a customer this morning - he was resizing some files, making them Dynamic using the command RESIZE FILENAME 30 * * (normally you wouldn't enter the * * after 30) But then his session was comsuming all of the CPU for over 20 minutes (until I killed it). Just curious if anyone knows what the system was trying to do? We resized using the correct command format and everything is fine. The files in question were type 18, empty and very small modulo 11. Thanks, Mark Uv 10 Windows ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may be subject to copyright. They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this message in error please notify AFS immediately by return email. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of AFS, except where an authorized sender specifically states them to be the views of AFS. It is your responsibility to verify this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. AFS accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Kevin, You realize this is not a therapy session. There are people you know and others that may be reading this. This is not the venue for that. Regards, Doug www.u2logic.com On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Kevin King ke...@precisonline.com wrote: Unfortunately, in one case I hired a friend. Needless to say, it was one of the worst decisions I've made. Not only lost a friend, but lost a lot of customer confidence by her attitude, poor workmanship, and unwillingness to adapt. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
You are correct, with my apologies to the group. On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Doug Averch dave...@gmail.com wrote: Kevin, You realize this is not a therapy session. There are people you know and others that may be reading this. This is not the venue for that. Regards, Doug www.u2logic.com On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Kevin King ke...@precisonline.com wrote: Unfortunately, in one case I hired a friend. Needless to say, it was one of the worst decisions I've made. Not only lost a friend, but lost a lot of customer confidence by her attitude, poor workmanship, and unwillingness to adapt. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] UniVerse Resize 30
My testing on an empty type 18 file: :RESIZE DUMMY 30 * * :LIST DUMMY 0 records listed. :ANALYZE.FILE DUMMY File name .. DUMMY Pathname ... DUMMY File type .. DYNAMIC File style and revision 32BIT Revision 12 NLS Character Set Mapping .. ISO8859-1+MARKS Hashing Algorithm .. GENERAL No. of groups (modulus) 3 current ( minimum 3 ) Large record size .. 809 bytes Group size . 1024 bytes Load factors ... 80% (split), 50% (merge) and 0% (actual) Total size . 5120 bytes : It kept the mod and sep. Notice that the minimum and current modulo are the same and at 3. Note the group size is 1 K, which you cannot do when you create the file initially. I tried it again with a file that had data but otherwise the same. It worked fine there two. It shouldn't matter that we use NLS here. AIX 6.1/11.1.11 On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 1:02 PM, Mark Eastwood ma...@afsi.com wrote: What's even more twisted, is I tried the same scenario on my development box (Linux uv 10.2), and the RESIZE XXX 30 * * actually corrupted my test file LIST XXX XXX... Read operation failure. Internal file corruption detected. File must be repaired. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of LeRoy Dreyfuss Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 9:55 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] UniVerse Resize 30 What resize should have done was create the dynamic file, but preserve the current modulo of 11 and the group size. Perhaps it got itself in a twist because it was coming from a static-hashed structure and somehow couldn't work out the mod and sep like it should have. I am pretty sure this used to work back in 10.1.x- we had requests to make that work correctly. Cheers, LeRoy On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 8:50 AM, Mark Eastwood ma...@afsi.com wrote: I had an interesting call from a customer this morning - he was resizing some files, making them Dynamic using the command RESIZE FILENAME 30 * * (normally you wouldn't enter the * * after 30) But then his session was comsuming all of the CPU for over 20 minutes (until I killed it). Just curious if anyone knows what the system was trying to do? We resized using the correct command format and everything is fine. The files in question were type 18, empty and very small modulo 11. Thanks, Mark Uv 10 Windows ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may be subject to copyright. They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this message in error please notify AFS immediately by return email. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of AFS, except where an authorized sender specifically states them to be the views of AFS. It is your responsibility to verify this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. AFS accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] UD hot backup/RFS options
Thanks Ty and Rod. Good to hear RFS works well - perhaps the lack of google hits is because it Just Works (tm). -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Ty Haller Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 8:28 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] UD hot backup/RFS options We've been using RFS with Replication for years. Our entire DB is setup with RFS and is replicated, about 300GB. (AIX 7.1 UniData 7.2.13) The RFS Logs are on a separate set of RAID 10 Disks, and doesn't seem to add that much overhead although we are utilizing SSDs now. GUIDE Runs pretty fast 1hr. We run a triple mirror setup and split off the mirror nightly to backup. Any crashes (rare), RFS has been able to recover from. If needed we could run off of our DR System or copy the data back again (couple of hours). Ty Haller SEFCU Lead Administrator - System Services thal...@sefcu.com -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Baakkonen, Rodney A (Rod) 46K Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 11:19 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] UD hot backup/RFS options We have used it for about 15 years. I can remember the last time we crashed (Solaris). IF the redo logs look ok and the Unidata logs don't have issues, I don't run guide on our RFS files. We only have our largest files defined as RFS (10 gigabytes to almost 100 gigabytes). We did not put in the begin/end transaction statements in our code. So RFS uses a timing mechanism to figure out when to write data out. There is a performance difference, as you are doing extra i/o for each RFS read. But we can usually fully recover our site in a couple of hours. We are on Unidata 7.1 and hope to move to Unidata 7.2.13 soon. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of McGowan, Ian Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 9:33 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: [U2] UD hot backup/RFS options We had a server crash 4pm yesterday (very unusual for IBM RS6000) and after guide/fixfile we had so much data corruption that a restore from previous days backup was needed. The question for the list is if anyone is successfully doing RFS or other incremental type backups? A quick google search shows a lot of people asking questions, but not a lot of it works great success stories. Looking to get a sense of real world usage before heading down that road, and potentially paying for consulting to implement. Any input, opinions, advice appreciated! Ian - IMPORTANT NOTICE: This message is intended only for the addressee and may contain confidential, privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not use, copy or disclose any information contained in the message. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: If you have received this email in error, please immediately notify the sender by e-mail at the address shown. This email transmission may contain confidential information. This information is intended only for the use of the individual(s) or entity to whom it is intended even if addressed incorrectly. Please delete it from your files if you are not the intended recipient. Thank you for your compliance. Copyright (c) 2013 Cigna === === ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users This message may contain confidential information and is intended for the sole purpose of communication with the addressee. Dissemination or publication in any format is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error please notify SEFCU immediately. Help save a tree. Please print this e-mail only if it is truly necessary. Thank you. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Kevin: After actually hiring a lot of people, and firing those that needed it, I've come to the conclusion that all employers need a person with the following three attributes: 1) An ability, and willingness, to be on-time, 2) An ability, and willingness, to be presentable in all business situations, and 3) An ability, and willingness, to learn what they don't know (which is always a lot!). The people coming out of college these days are mostly unemployable. Today's bachelors degree is like a 1930 8th grade education, or a 1970 high school education. So, no matter what any Human Services dweeb says, getting someone to show up looking presentable and willing to work whatever it takes to learn what they don't know is gold! These kinds of people are quite trainable and, considering all software frameworks have a short shelf life anyway, offer a lot of flexibility for your purposes. Just a thought. :-) Bill - Original Message - *From:* ke...@precisonline.com *To:* U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 10/11/2013 9:56 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Unfortunately, in one case I hired a friend. Needless to say, it was one of the worst decisions I've made. Not only lost a friend, but lost a lot of customer confidence by her attitude, poor workmanship, and unwillingness to adapt. On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 7:01 AM, Robert Frailey rfrai...@utahmed.comwrote: Wow, seen a lot of that and managers trying to get friends hired to create a perfect office society. quit hiring backstabbing chaff with their own agendas. Robert - Original Message - From: Kevin King ke...@precisonline.com To: Susan Joslyn sjos...@sjplus.com; U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Susan, yes. I've been very open in my interviews, and it's netted significantly regrettable results. So this time I'm going for people who can get behind and contribute to the common cause as soon after hire as possible. I don't have any aspirations of hiring for life, though I certainly do endeavor to have that kind of an environment for a person who wants that sort of thing. I just need to quit hiring backstabbing chaff with their own agendas. On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Susan Joslyn sjos...@sjplus.com wrote: Kevin, Not that I have any real experience - at least not for what seems like a lifetime - with hiring. But my instinct might be to let the applicant tell me whatever they want. You know, just an open ended Tell me what you would like me to know about your skills, your ambitions and your work ethic. Probably that's an approach you've already tried. Susan -Original Message- From: mailto:u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.orgu2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org u2-users-bounces@listserver.**u2ug.orgu2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org[ mailto:u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.orgu2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org mailto:u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.orgu2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Leverett, Brendon Sent: Tuesday, 8 October 2013 1:40 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Interviewer: What is one of your weak points? Applicant: My honesty. Interviewer: I would have thought that was a strong point. Applicant: I don't give a %^* what you think you stupid ^^%$ __**_ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/**mailman/listinfo/u2-usershttp://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users __**_ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/**mailman/listinfo/u2-usershttp://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users __**_ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/**mailman/listinfo/u2-usershttp://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
How about the other end here? By other end, I mean this. What about someone in college or out of college with a degree other than an IT subject or if with an IT degree or working on one, who has been taught by someone with over 20 years of experience outside of college but the student/graduate has no employment history of what has been taught them outside of college. Plus they meet all 3 of your requirements listed below? UniVerse/UniData/D3/JBASE/CACHE is not taught in colleges and if we don't teach them what happens when all of us oldies are gone? Brenda -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Bill Haskett Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 2:41 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Kevin: After actually hiring a lot of people, and firing those that needed it, I've come to the conclusion that all employers need a person with the following three attributes: 1) An ability, and willingness, to be on-time, 2) An ability, and willingness, to be presentable in all business situations, and 3) An ability, and willingness, to learn what they don't know (which is always a lot!). The people coming out of college these days are mostly unemployable. Today's bachelors degree is like a 1930 8th grade education, or a 1970 high school education. So, no matter what any Human Services dweeb says, getting someone to show up looking presentable and willing to work whatever it takes to learn what they don't know is gold! These kinds of people are quite trainable and, considering all software frameworks have a short shelf life anyway, offer a lot of flexibility for your purposes. Just a thought. :-) Bill - Original Message - *From:* ke...@precisonline.com *To:* U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 10/11/2013 9:56 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Unfortunately, in one case I hired a friend. Needless to say, it was one of the worst decisions I've made. Not only lost a friend, but lost a lot of customer confidence by her attitude, poor workmanship, and unwillingness to adapt. On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 7:01 AM, Robert Frailey rfrai...@utahmed.comwrote: Wow, seen a lot of that and managers trying to get friends hired to create a perfect office society. quit hiring backstabbing chaff with their own agendas. Robert - Original Message - From: Kevin King ke...@precisonline.com To: Susan Joslyn sjos...@sjplus.com; U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Susan, yes. I've been very open in my interviews, and it's netted significantly regrettable results. So this time I'm going for people who can get behind and contribute to the common cause as soon after hire as possible. I don't have any aspirations of hiring for life, though I certainly do endeavor to have that kind of an environment for a person who wants that sort of thing. I just need to quit hiring backstabbing chaff with their own agendas. On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Susan Joslyn sjos...@sjplus.com wrote: Kevin, Not that I have any real experience - at least not for what seems like a lifetime - with hiring. But my instinct might be to let the applicant tell me whatever they want. You know, just an open ended Tell me what you would like me to know about your skills, your ambitions and your work ethic. Probably that's an approach you've already tried. Susan -Original Message- From: mailto:u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.orgu2-users-bounces@lis tserver.u2ug.org u2-users-bounces@listserver.**u2ug.orgu2-users-bounces@listserver. u2ug.org[ mailto:u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.orgu2-users-bounces@lis tserver.u2ug.org mailto:u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.orgu2-users-bounces@list server.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Leverett, Brendon Sent: Tuesday, 8 October 2013 1:40 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Interviewer: What is one of your weak points? Applicant: My honesty. Interviewer: I would have thought that was a strong point. Applicant: I don't give a %^* what you think you stupid ^^%$ __**_ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/**mailman/listinfo/u2-usershttp://lists erver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users __**_ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/**mailman/listinfo/u2-usershttp://listse rver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users __**_ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/**mailman/listinfo/u2-usershttp://listser
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
I totally agree with Brenda and Bill. Work sent Brooke and I to Epicor's Unidata and Pick classes in California, I only had Novell and Microsoft when I was hired. I picked up Unix, Unidata, redback and DBMS from classes provided by work. 19 years later, Brooke and I are self sufficient. We show up on time and put in whatever necessary to complete our tasks. We learn everything in sight. We would be hard pressed if one or both of us got hit by a bus. I'm expected to be 24 hours a day / seven days a week and Brooke fills in when I can't. I run into very few people with our work ethic anymore. Robert - Original Message - From: Brenda Ives bren...@marketamerica.com To: 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions How about the other end here? By other end, I mean this. What about someone in college or out of college with a degree other than an IT subject or if with an IT degree or working on one, who has been taught by someone with over 20 years of experience outside of college but the student/graduate has no employment history of what has been taught them outside of college. Plus they meet all 3 of your requirements listed below? UniVerse/UniData/D3/JBASE/CACHE is not taught in colleges and if we don't teach them what happens when all of us oldies are gone? Brenda -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Bill Haskett Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 2:41 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Kevin: After actually hiring a lot of people, and firing those that needed it, I've come to the conclusion that all employers need a person with the following three attributes: 1) An ability, and willingness, to be on-time, 2) An ability, and willingness, to be presentable in all business situations, and 3) An ability, and willingness, to learn what they don't know (which is always a lot!). The people coming out of college these days are mostly unemployable. Today's bachelors degree is like a 1930 8th grade education, or a 1970 high school education. So, no matter what any Human Services dweeb says, getting someone to show up looking presentable and willing to work whatever it takes to learn what they don't know is gold! These kinds of people are quite trainable and, considering all software frameworks have a short shelf life anyway, offer a lot of flexibility for your purposes. Just a thought. :-) Bill - Original Message - *From:* ke...@precisonline.com *To:* U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 10/11/2013 9:56 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Unfortunately, in one case I hired a friend. Needless to say, it was one of the worst decisions I've made. Not only lost a friend, but lost a lot of customer confidence by her attitude, poor workmanship, and unwillingness to adapt. On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 7:01 AM, Robert Frailey rfrai...@utahmed.comwrote: Wow, seen a lot of that and managers trying to get friends hired to create a perfect office society. quit hiring backstabbing chaff with their own agendas. Robert - Original Message - From: Kevin King ke...@precisonline.com To: Susan Joslyn sjos...@sjplus.com; U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Susan, yes. I've been very open in my interviews, and it's netted significantly regrettable results. So this time I'm going for people who can get behind and contribute to the common cause as soon after hire as possible. I don't have any aspirations of hiring for life, though I certainly do endeavor to have that kind of an environment for a person who wants that sort of thing. I just need to quit hiring backstabbing chaff with their own agendas. On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Susan Joslyn sjos...@sjplus.com wrote: Kevin, Not that I have any real experience - at least not for what seems like a lifetime - with hiring. But my instinct might be to let the applicant tell me whatever they want. You know, just an open ended Tell me what you would like me to know about your skills, your ambitions and your work ethic. Probably that's an approach you've already tried. Susan -Original Message- From: mailto:u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.orgu2-users-bounces@lis tserver.u2ug.org u2-users-bounces@listserver.**u2ug.orgu2-users-bounces@listserver. u2ug.org[ mailto:u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.orgu2-users-bounces@lis tserver.u2ug.org mailto:u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.orgu2-users-bounces@list server.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Leverett, Brendon Sent: Tuesday, 8 October 2013 1:40 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Interviewer: What is one of your weak
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
I also agree. I'm willing to train, but what I've found is that someone that is willing to learn doesn't necessarily mean they're able to learn or willing to do what they've learned. What happened here was that a group of folks with little experience got a lot of good training and then took the training elsewhere, so I'd rather not start from scratch if at all possible. We need folks to be able to contribute quickly, so I don't have the time nor desire to give someone their first programming job knowing that I'm only giving them wings to fly. And yeah, I'm still a little bitter. I'll get over it. :-) On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 1:33 PM, Robert Frailey rfrai...@utahmed.comwrote: I totally agree with Brenda and Bill. Work sent Brooke and I to Epicor's Unidata and Pick classes in California, I only had Novell and Microsoft when I was hired. I picked up Unix, Unidata, redback and DBMS from classes provided by work. 19 years later, Brooke and I are self sufficient. We show up on time and put in whatever necessary to complete our tasks. We learn everything in sight. We would be hard pressed if one or both of us got hit by a bus. I'm expected to be 24 hours a day / seven days a week and Brooke fills in when I can't. I run into very few people with our work ethic anymore. Robert - Original Message - From: Brenda Ives bren...@marketamerica.com To: 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions How about the other end here? By other end, I mean this. What about someone in college or out of college with a degree other than an IT subject or if with an IT degree or working on one, who has been taught by someone with over 20 years of experience outside of college but the student/graduate has no employment history of what has been taught them outside of college. Plus they meet all 3 of your requirements listed below? UniVerse/UniData/D3/JBASE/**CACHE is not taught in colleges and if we don't teach them what happens when all of us oldies are gone? Brenda -Original Message- From: u2-users-bounces@listserver.**u2ug.orgu2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org[mailto: u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.orgu2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Bill Haskett Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 2:41 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Kevin: After actually hiring a lot of people, and firing those that needed it, I've come to the conclusion that all employers need a person with the following three attributes: 1) An ability, and willingness, to be on-time, 2) An ability, and willingness, to be presentable in all business situations, and 3) An ability, and willingness, to learn what they don't know (which is always a lot!). The people coming out of college these days are mostly unemployable. Today's bachelors degree is like a 1930 8th grade education, or a 1970 high school education. So, no matter what any Human Services dweeb says, getting someone to show up looking presentable and willing to work whatever it takes to learn what they don't know is gold! These kinds of people are quite trainable and, considering all software frameworks have a short shelf life anyway, offer a lot of flexibility for your purposes. Just a thought. :-) Bill --**--** - Original Message - *From:* ke...@precisonline.com *To:* U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 10/11/2013 9:56 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Unfortunately, in one case I hired a friend. Needless to say, it was one of the worst decisions I've made. Not only lost a friend, but lost a lot of customer confidence by her attitude, poor workmanship, and unwillingness to adapt. On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 7:01 AM, Robert Frailey rfrai...@utahmed.com wrote: Wow, seen a lot of that and managers trying to get friends hired to create a perfect office society. quit hiring backstabbing chaff with their own agendas. Robert - Original Message - From: Kevin King ke...@precisonline.com To: Susan Joslyn sjos...@sjplus.com; U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Susan, yes. I've been very open in my interviews, and it's netted significantly regrettable results. So this time I'm going for people who can get behind and contribute to the common cause as soon after hire as possible. I don't have any aspirations of hiring for life, though I certainly do endeavor to have that kind of an environment for a person who wants that sort of thing. I just need to quit hiring backstabbing chaff with their own agendas. On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Susan Joslyn sjos...@sjplus.com wrote: Kevin, Not that I have any real experience - at least not for what
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Kevin: And that's the crux of the interview process. If you hire people with all the skills you want, and they don't go somewhere else, why would you think people you train will go somewhere else? Or think of this conversely. My thought is people go somewhere else for a reason. Nip that reason in the bud, so to speak, and you won't have that problem, or at least you can focus your attention on other problems. :-) Bill Untitled Page - Original Message - *From:* ke...@precisonline.com *To:* U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 10/11/2013 1:15 PM *Subject:* Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions I also agree. I'm willing to train, but what I've found is that someone that is willing to learn doesn't necessarily mean they're able to learn or willing to do what they've learned. What happened here was that a group of folks with little experience got a lot of good training and then took the training elsewhere, so I'd rather not start from scratch if at all possible. We need folks to be able to contribute quickly, so I don't have the time nor desire to give someone their first programming job knowing that I'm only giving them wings to fly. And yeah, I'm still a little bitter. I'll get over it. :-) On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 1:33 PM, Robert Frailey rfrai...@utahmed.comwrote: I totally agree with Brenda and Bill. Work sent Brooke and I to Epicor's Unidata and Pick classes in California, I only had Novell and Microsoft when I was hired. I picked up Unix, Unidata, redback and DBMS from classes provided by work. 19 years later, Brooke and I are self sufficient. We show up on time and put in whatever necessary to complete our tasks. We learn everything in sight. We would be hard pressed if one or both of us got hit by a bus. I'm expected to be 24 hours a day / seven days a week and Brooke fills in when I can't. I run into very few people with our work ethic anymore. Robert - Original Message - From: Brenda Ives bren...@marketamerica.com To: 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions How about the other end here? By other end, I mean this. What about someone in college or out of college with a degree other than an IT subject or if with an IT degree or working on one, who has been taught by someone with over 20 years of experience outside of college but the student/graduate has no employment history of what has been taught them outside of college. Plus they meet all 3 of your requirements listed below? UniVerse/UniData/D3/JBASE/**CACHE is not taught in colleges and if we don't teach them what happens when all of us oldies are gone? Brenda -Original Message- From: u2-users-bounces@listserver.**u2ug.orgu2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org[mailto: u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.orgu2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Bill Haskett Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 2:41 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Kevin: After actually hiring a lot of people, and firing those that needed it, I've come to the conclusion that all employers need a person with the following three attributes: 1) An ability, and willingness, to be on-time, 2) An ability, and willingness, to be presentable in all business situations, and 3) An ability, and willingness, to learn what they don't know (which is always a lot!). The people coming out of college these days are mostly unemployable. Today's bachelors degree is like a 1930 8th grade education, or a 1970 high school education. So, no matter what any Human Services dweeb says, getting someone to show up looking presentable and willing to work whatever it takes to learn what they don't know is gold! These kinds of people are quite trainable and, considering all software frameworks have a short shelf life anyway, offer a lot of flexibility for your purposes. Just a thought. :-) Bill --**--** - Original Message - *From:* ke...@precisonline.com *To:* U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 10/11/2013 9:56 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions [...snipped...] On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 7:01 AM, Robert Frailey rfrai...@utahmed.com [...snipped...] Robert - Original Message - From: Kevin King ke...@precisonline.com To: Susan Joslyn sjos...@sjplus.com; U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Susan, yes. I've been very open in my interviews, and it's netted significantly regrettable results. So this time I'm going for people who can get behind and contribute to the common cause as soon after hire as possible. I don't have any aspirations of hiring for life, though I certainly do endeavor to have that kind of an environment for a
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
I spent the last year or so... reading a lot of Ayn Rand. One of her key followers... the author Dr. Leonard Peikoff... wrote a book that I like called The DIM Hypothesis. DIM divides heads into three groups... [1] disintegrative [2] Integrative [3] misIntegrative. Writing code is all about reason and logic. Thus... I suppose that almost everybody on this list is mostly an I. On the other hand... most people do not write code. Consider MeetUp.com as a way to find the right stuff. Len's vanity California license plate reads DIMWIT. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
I personally never cared about my employees being on time except for client meetings. Otherwise they can come and go as they want, as long as their working hours, matches their billable hours :) -Original Message- From: Bill Haskett [via U2 (UniVerse UniData)] ml-node+s1073795n41995...@n5.nabble.com To: Will Johnson wjhon...@aol.com Sent: Fri, Oct 11, 2013 12:25 pm Subject: Re: [OT] Interview Questions Kevin: After actually hiring a lot of people, and firing those that needed it, I've come to the conclusion that all employers need a person with the following three attributes: 1) An ability, and willingness, to be on-time, 2) An ability, and willingness, to be presentable in all business situations, and 3) An ability, and willingness, to learn what they don't know (which is always a lot!). The people coming out of college these days are mostly unemployable. Today's bachelors degree is like a 1930 8th grade education, or a 1970 high school education. So, no matter what any Human Services dweeb says, getting someone to show up looking presentable and willing to work whatever it takes to learn what they don't know is gold! These kinds of people are quite trainable and, considering all software frameworks have a short shelf life anyway, offer a lot of flexibility for your purposes. Just a thought. :-) Bill - Original Message - *From:* [hidden email] *To:* U2 Users List [hidden email] *Date:* 10/11/2013 9:56 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Unfortunately, in one case I hired a friend. Needless to say, it was one of the worst decisions I've made. Not only lost a friend, but lost a lot of customer confidence by her attitude, poor workmanship, and unwillingness to adapt. On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 7:01 AM, Robert Frailey [hidden email]wrote: Wow, seen a lot of that and managers trying to get friends hired to create a perfect office society. quit hiring backstabbing chaff with their own agendas. Robert - Original Message - From: Kevin King [hidden email] To: Susan Joslyn [hidden email]; U2 Users List [hidden email] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Susan, yes. I've been very open in my interviews, and it's netted significantly regrettable results. So this time I'm going for people who can get behind and contribute to the common cause as soon after hire as possible. I don't have any aspirations of hiring for life, though I certainly do endeavor to have that kind of an environment for a person who wants that sort of thing. I just need to quit hiring backstabbing chaff with their own agendas. On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Susan Joslyn [hidden email] wrote: Kevin, Not that I have any real experience - at least not for what seems like a lifetime - with hiring. But my instinct might be to let the applicant tell me whatever they want. You know, just an open ended Tell me what you would like me to know about your skills, your ambitions and your work ethic. Probably that's an approach you've already tried. Susan -Original Message- From: mailto:u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.org;[hidden email] u2-users-bounces@listserver.**u2ug.org[hidden email][ mailto:u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.org;[hidden email] mailto:u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.org;[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Leverett, Brendon Sent: Tuesday, 8 October 2013 1:40 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Interviewer: What is one of your weak points? Applicant: My honesty. Interviewer: I would have thought that was a strong point. Applicant: I don't give a %^* what you think you stupid ^^%$ __**_ U2-Users mailing list [hidden email] http://listserver.u2ug.org/**mailman/listinfo/u2-usershttp://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users __**_ U2-Users mailing list [hidden email] http://listserver.u2ug.org/**mailman/listinfo/u2-usershttp://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users __**_ U2-Users mailing list [hidden email] http://listserver.u2ug.org/**mailman/listinfo/u2-usershttp://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list [hidden email] http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list [hidden email] http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below: http://u2-universe-unidata.1073795.n5.nabble.com/OT-Interview-Questions-tp41936p41995.html
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
If you give them their first programming job they will leave The trick is finding people to whom you are giving them their *last* programming job. -Original Message- From: Kevin King ke...@precisonline.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Fri, Oct 11, 2013 1:15 pm Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions I also agree. I'm willing to train, but what I've found is that someone that is willing to learn doesn't necessarily mean they're able to learn or willing to do what they've learned. What happened here was that a group of folks with little experience got a lot of good training and then took the training elsewhere, so I'd rather not start from scratch if at all possible. We need folks to be able to contribute quickly, so I don't have the time nor desire to give someone their first programming job knowing that I'm only giving them wings to fly. And yeah, I'm still a little bitter. I'll get over it. :-) On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 1:33 PM, Robert Frailey rfrai...@utahmed.comwrote: I totally agree with Brenda and Bill. Work sent Brooke and I to Epicor's Unidata and Pick classes in California, I only had Novell and Microsoft when I was hired. I picked up Unix, Unidata, redback and DBMS from classes provided by work. 19 years later, Brooke and I are self sufficient. We show up on time and put in whatever necessary to complete our tasks. We learn everything in sight. We would be hard pressed if one or both of us got hit by a bus. I'm expected to be 24 hours a day / seven days a week and Brooke fills in when I can't. I run into very few people with our work ethic anymore. Robert - Original Message - From: Brenda Ives bren...@marketamerica.com To: 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions How about the other end here? By other end, I mean this. What about someone in college or out of college with a degree other than an IT subject or if with an IT degree or working on one, who has been taught by someone with over 20 years of experience outside of college but the student/graduate has no employment history of what has been taught them outside of college. Plus they meet all 3 of your requirements listed below? UniVerse/UniData/D3/JBASE/**CACHE is not taught in colleges and if we don't teach them what happens when all of us oldies are gone? Brenda -Original Message- From: u2-users-bounces@listserver.**u2ug.orgu2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org[mailto: u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.orgu2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Bill Haskett Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 2:41 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Kevin: After actually hiring a lot of people, and firing those that needed it, I've come to the conclusion that all employers need a person with the following three attributes: 1) An ability, and willingness, to be on-time, 2) An ability, and willingness, to be presentable in all business situations, and 3) An ability, and willingness, to learn what they don't know (which is always a lot!). The people coming out of college these days are mostly unemployable. Today's bachelors degree is like a 1930 8th grade education, or a 1970 high school education. So, no matter what any Human Services dweeb says, getting someone to show up looking presentable and willing to work whatever it takes to learn what they don't know is gold! These kinds of people are quite trainable and, considering all software frameworks have a short shelf life anyway, offer a lot of flexibility for your purposes. Just a thought. :-) Bill --**--** - Original Message - *From:* ke...@precisonline.com *To:* U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 10/11/2013 9:56 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Unfortunately, in one case I hired a friend. Needless to say, it was one of the worst decisions I've made. Not only lost a friend, but lost a lot of customer confidence by her attitude, poor workmanship, and unwillingness to adapt. On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 7:01 AM, Robert Frailey rfrai...@utahmed.com wrote: Wow, seen a lot of that and managers trying to get friends hired to create a perfect office society. quit hiring backstabbing chaff with their own agendas. Robert - Original Message - From: Kevin King ke...@precisonline.com To: Susan Joslyn sjos...@sjplus.com; U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Susan, yes. I've been very open in my interviews, and it's netted significantly regrettable results. So this time I'm going for people who can get behind and contribute to the common cause as soon after hire as possible. I don't have any aspirations of
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
I turned 50 on tueday, I'm happy to have a job that still wants me and I can pay my bills. - Original Message - From: Wjhonson wjhon...@aol.com To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 3:26 PM Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions If you give them their first programming job they will leave The trick is finding people to whom you are giving them their *last* programming job. -Original Message- From: Kevin King ke...@precisonline.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Fri, Oct 11, 2013 1:15 pm Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions I also agree. I'm willing to train, but what I've found is that someone that is willing to learn doesn't necessarily mean they're able to learn or willing to do what they've learned. What happened here was that a group of folks with little experience got a lot of good training and then took the training elsewhere, so I'd rather not start from scratch if at all possible. We need folks to be able to contribute quickly, so I don't have the time nor desire to give someone their first programming job knowing that I'm only giving them wings to fly. And yeah, I'm still a little bitter. I'll get over it. :-) On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 1:33 PM, Robert Frailey rfrai...@utahmed.comwrote: I totally agree with Brenda and Bill. Work sent Brooke and I to Epicor's Unidata and Pick classes in California, I only had Novell and Microsoft when I was hired. I picked up Unix, Unidata, redback and DBMS from classes provided by work. 19 years later, Brooke and I are self sufficient. We show up on time and put in whatever necessary to complete our tasks. We learn everything in sight. We would be hard pressed if one or both of us got hit by a bus. I'm expected to be 24 hours a day / seven days a week and Brooke fills in when I can't. I run into very few people with our work ethic anymore. Robert - Original Message - From: Brenda Ives bren...@marketamerica.com To: 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions How about the other end here? By other end, I mean this. What about someone in college or out of college with a degree other than an IT subject or if with an IT degree or working on one, who has been taught by someone with over 20 years of experience outside of college but the student/graduate has no employment history of what has been taught them outside of college. Plus they meet all 3 of your requirements listed below? UniVerse/UniData/D3/JBASE/**CACHE is not taught in colleges and if we don't teach them what happens when all of us oldies are gone? Brenda -Original Message- From: u2-users-bounces@listserver.**u2ug.orgu2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org[mailto: u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.orgu2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Bill Haskett Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 2:41 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Kevin: After actually hiring a lot of people, and firing those that needed it, I've come to the conclusion that all employers need a person with the following three attributes: 1) An ability, and willingness, to be on-time, 2) An ability, and willingness, to be presentable in all business situations, and 3) An ability, and willingness, to learn what they don't know (which is always a lot!). The people coming out of college these days are mostly unemployable. Today's bachelors degree is like a 1930 8th grade education, or a 1970 high school education. So, no matter what any Human Services dweeb says, getting someone to show up looking presentable and willing to work whatever it takes to learn what they don't know is gold! These kinds of people are quite trainable and, considering all software frameworks have a short shelf life anyway, offer a lot of flexibility for your purposes. Just a thought. :-) Bill --**--** - Original Message - *From:* ke...@precisonline.com *To:* U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 10/11/2013 9:56 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Unfortunately, in one case I hired a friend. Needless to say, it was one of the worst decisions I've made. Not only lost a friend, but lost a lot of customer confidence by her attitude, poor workmanship, and unwillingness to adapt. On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 7:01 AM, Robert Frailey rfrai...@utahmed.com wrote: Wow, seen a lot of that and managers trying to get friends hired to create a perfect office society. quit hiring backstabbing chaff with their own agendas. Robert - Original Message - From: Kevin King ke...@precisonline.com To: Susan Joslyn sjos...@sjplus.com; U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Susan, yes. I've been very open in my
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Okay Will, I'll bite. So what's that look like? How can you identify someone looking for their last job, and what qualities does one need to offer? Clearly it's not excessive cash, flexible schedules, great equipment, wonderful customers, a wide variety of technologies to learn and grow, and a quiet, bring-your-dog-to-work type environment. Yeah, there's heavy workloads, but that's a sign that we're doing a good job when customers are loading us down with opportunities, right? On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Wjhonson wjhon...@aol.com wrote: If you give them their first programming job they will leave The trick is finding people to whom you are giving them their *last* programming job. -Original Message- From: Kevin King ke...@precisonline.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Fri, Oct 11, 2013 1:15 pm Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions I also agree. I'm willing to train, but what I've found is that someone that is willing to learn doesn't necessarily mean they're able to learn or willing to do what they've learned. What happened here was that a group of folks with little experience got a lot of good training and then took the training elsewhere, so I'd rather not start from scratch if at all possible. We need folks to be able to contribute quickly, so I don't have the time nor desire to give someone their first programming job knowing that I'm only giving them wings to fly. And yeah, I'm still a little bitter. I'll get over it. :-) On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 1:33 PM, Robert Frailey rfrai...@utahmed.com wrote: I totally agree with Brenda and Bill. Work sent Brooke and I to Epicor's Unidata and Pick classes in California, I only had Novell and Microsoft when I was hired. I picked up Unix, Unidata, redback and DBMS from classes provided by work. 19 years later, Brooke and I are self sufficient. We show up on time and put in whatever necessary to complete our tasks. We learn everything in sight. We would be hard pressed if one or both of us got hit by a bus. I'm expected to be 24 hours a day / seven days a week and Brooke fills in when I can't. I run into very few people with our work ethic anymore. Robert - Original Message - From: Brenda Ives bren...@marketamerica.com To: 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions How about the other end here? By other end, I mean this. What about someone in college or out of college with a degree other than an IT subject or if with an IT degree or working on one, who has been taught by someone with over 20 years of experience outside of college but the student/graduate has no employment history of what has been taught them outside of college. Plus they meet all 3 of your requirements listed below? UniVerse/UniData/D3/JBASE/**CACHE is not taught in colleges and if we don't teach them what happens when all of us oldies are gone? Brenda -Original Message- From: u2-users-bounces@listserver.**u2ug.org u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org[mailto: u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.org u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Bill Haskett Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 2:41 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Kevin: After actually hiring a lot of people, and firing those that needed it, I've come to the conclusion that all employers need a person with the following three attributes: 1) An ability, and willingness, to be on-time, 2) An ability, and willingness, to be presentable in all business situations, and 3) An ability, and willingness, to learn what they don't know (which is always a lot!). The people coming out of college these days are mostly unemployable. Today's bachelors degree is like a 1930 8th grade education, or a 1970 high school education. So, no matter what any Human Services dweeb says, getting someone to show up looking presentable and willing to work whatever it takes to learn what they don't know is gold! These kinds of people are quite trainable and, considering all software frameworks have a short shelf life anyway, offer a lot of flexibility for your purposes. Just a thought. :-) Bill --**--** - Original Message - *From:* ke...@precisonline.com *To:* U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 10/11/2013 9:56 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Unfortunately, in one case I hired a friend. Needless to say, it was one of the worst decisions I've made. Not only lost a friend, but lost a lot of customer confidence by her attitude, poor workmanship, and unwillingness to adapt. On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 7:01 AM, Robert Frailey rfrai...@utahmed.com wrote: Wow, seen a lot
