And that's the crux of the interview process. If you hire people with all the skills you want, and they don't go somewhere else, why would you think people you train will go somewhere else? Or think of this conversely. My thought is people go somewhere else for a reason. Nip that reason in the bud, so to speak, and you won't have that problem, or at least you can focus your attention on other problems. :-)

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----- Original Message -----
*To:* U2 Users List <>
*Date:* 10/11/2013 1:15 PM
*Subject:* Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
I also agree.  I'm willing to train, but what I've found is that someone
that is "willing" to learn doesn't necessarily mean they're "able" to learn
or "willing" to do what they've learned.  What happened here was that a
group of folks with little experience got a lot of good training and then
took the training elsewhere, so I'd rather not start from scratch if at all
possible.  We need folks to be able to contribute quickly, so I don't have
the time nor desire to give someone their first programming job knowing
that I'm only giving them wings to fly.

And yeah, I'm still a little bitter.  I'll get over it. :-)

On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 1:33 PM, Robert Frailey <>wrote:

I totally agree with Brenda and Bill. Work sent Brooke and I to Epicor's
Unidata and Pick classes in California, I only had Novell and Microsoft
when I was hired.
I picked up Unix, Unidata, redback and DBMS from classes provided by work.
19 years later, Brooke and I are self sufficient. We show up on time and
put in
whatever necessary to complete our tasks. We learn everything in sight. We
would be hard pressed if one or both of us got hit by a bus. I'm expected
to be 24 hours
a day / seven days a week and Brooke fills in when I can't. I run into
very few people with our work ethic anymore.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda Ives" <>
To: "'U2 Users List'" <>
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 1:18 PM

Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions

  How about the other end here?
By other end, I mean this.  What about someone in college or out of
college with a degree other than an IT subject or if with an IT degree or
working on one, who has been taught by someone with over 20 years of
experience outside of college but the student/graduate has no employment
history of what has been taught them outside of college.  Plus they meet
all 3 of your requirements listed below?

UniVerse/UniData/D3/JBASE/**CACHE is not taught in colleges and if we
don't teach them what happens when all of us oldies are gone?


-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Bill Haskett
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 2:41 PM
To: U2 Users List
Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions


After actually hiring a lot of people, and firing those that needed it,
I've come to the conclusion that all employers need a person with the
following three attributes:

1)  An ability, and willingness, to be on-time,
2)  An ability, and willingness, to be presentable in all business
situations, and
3)  An ability, and willingness, to learn what they don't know (which is
always a lot!).

The people coming out of college these days are mostly unemployable.
Today's bachelors degree is like a 1930 8th grade education, or a 1970
high school education.  So, no matter what any Human Services dweeb says,
getting someone to show up looking presentable and willing to work whatever
it takes to learn what they don't know is gold!  These kinds of people are
quite trainable and, considering all software frameworks have a short shelf
life anyway, offer a lot of flexibility for your purposes.

Just a thought.  :-)


----- Original Message -----
*To:* U2 Users List <>
*Date:* 10/11/2013 9:56 AM
*Subject:* Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions


On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 7:01 AM, Robert Frailey <

----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin King"
To: "Susan Joslyn" <>; "U2 Users List" <>
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 8:07 PM

Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions

Susan, yes.  I've been very open in my interviews, and it's netted
significantly regrettable results.  So this time I'm going for
people who can get behind and contribute to the common cause as soon
after hire as possible.  I don't have any aspirations of hiring for
life, though I certainly do endeavor to have that kind of an
environment for a person who wants that sort of thing.  I just need
to quit hiring backstabbing chaff with their own agendas.

On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Susan Joslyn <>


Not that I have any real experience - at least not for what seems
like a lifetime - with hiring.  But my instinct might be to let the
applicant tell me whatever they want.  You know, just an open ended
"Tell me what you would like me to know about your skills, your
ambitions and your work ethic."
Probably that's an approach you've already tried.


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