Re: [U2] Runoff ?
The source is in VB6. ConnectingFlight is offered as a service rather than as a product because I've found every single site has some weird nuance that the code doesn't catch. Some sites have moved their documents through multiple products, each leaving some sort of residue which needs to be accommodated. Some users adopted various practices that weren't documented but didn't cause runtime aborts in document rendering either. So I need to catch the nuances, tweak the engine in old VB6 code, and rerun the conversion, sometimes repeated many times on many thousands of documents. It was never worth it to me to convert that project to .NET, but every year or so I need to whip it all out and get it running again. T > From: James Canale, Jr. > >"I would need to reinstall an XP box and VB6 just to do the job" > > Unless you have Win-7 Ultimate and then you'd only need VB6 if you > use XP mode. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Runoff ?
>"I would need to reinstall an XP box and VB6 just to do the job" Unless you have Win-7 Ultimate and then you'd only need VB6 if you use XP mode. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Runoff ?
> From: Brian Leach > Did also do a runoff to nroff converter at one time, but that's also gone > missing. Sorry. [AD along with commentary] My ConnectingFlight utility hasn't quite gone missing, but it was written in VB6 and I'm afraid that if someone needs docs converted I would need to reinstall an XP box and VB6 just to do the job. http://Nebula-RnD.com/services/connflight.htm ConnectingFlight converts JET, Runoff, OP, UltiWord, DocuMentor, and other flavors and mixed-flavor documents to Microsoft Word, Google Docs, Star Office, RTF, PDF, and HTML. The difference between this and simple print-and-render homegrown solutions is that the documents are still editable with mainstream tools, with proper tabs, headers and footers, fonts and styles, columns, indexes, table of contents, page numbering, section breaks, and every other feature available in the MV-based products, except that they don't link back to the database. Inability to link back to MV wasn't a bug, it was a design consideration, and apropos to this thread, there was almost no demand for it. No one who converted docs wanted the .READ statements to go back into MV. People getting documents converted were generally migrating away from MV, to new systems that did wiz-bang things like mail merges with "real" word processors. That's the dividing line - people either want to stay with MV and use the old tools, or they're going to leave MV thinking that's what they need to do to get the new tools. That's pure misinformation reinforced by "value-add" resellers, whose value-add stops with their accounting rules and doesn't extend to integrating MV with the rest of the modern office. (As always, if that doesn't apply to 'you', don't be offended.) The most important thing to remember about your choice of old and new tools is that as a technician Your preference is irrelevant. What's important is the preference and perspective of non-technical people who use your system, and the management that funds its operation. Your die-hard support for legacy tools only serves to label you and the system you claim to love. The tighter you hold onto those tools the more crazy you look to everyone else and the faster you will be replaced. The way to keep the tools you want to use is to ensure that everyone else sees the tools they expect to see in a modern environment. That's not AE/ED, RUNOFF, or CSV files masquerading as Excel. Tony Gravagno Nebula Research and Development TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com Nebula R&D sells mv.NET and other Pick/MultiValue products worldwide, and provides related development services remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com/blog Visit http://PickWiki.com! Contribute! http://Twitter.com/TonyGravagno NEW! http://groups.google.com/group/mvdbms/about ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Runoff ?
You get the prize Brian for having at least a program that I can make *work*. (I.e. do something) Although I had to fiddle it a bit to figure out how to actually load it, since the online document just apparently assumes you can load it without any help. I was able to make it actually edit something without having to change any settings or even create any control file. -Original Message- From: Brian Leach To: 'U2 Users List' Sent: Mon, Jun 18, 2012 1:05 am Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? Z is a free full screen editor for UniVerse you can download from my ebsite. nd I'm just about to release version 2 of mvDeveloper (also free) into eta. (Why both? 'cos sometimes it's easier to just jump into an editor at TCL, epending on what I'm doing). Can't find my old Runoff clone though - it seems to have gone the way of all lesh. id also do a runoff to nroff converter at one time, but that's also gone issing. orry. Brian __ 2-Users mailing list 2-us...@listserver.u2ug.org ttp://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Runoff ?
Bizarre - I wonder how many other emails are bouncing. I put you in my address book. Would you try to send it again? Thanks, Charlie On 06-18-2012 9:36 AM, Brian Leach wrote: For Charlie Noah You contacted me off-list about this post, but my reply to you bounced. I'm not ignoring you. Brian -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Brian Leach Sent: 18 June 2012 08:39 To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? Z is a free full screen editor for UniVerse you can download from my website. And I'm just about to release version 2 of mvDeveloper (also free) into beta. (Why both? 'cos sometimes it's easier to just jump into an editor at TCL, depending on what I'm doing). Can't find my old Runoff clone though - it seems to have gone the way of all flesh. Did also do a runoff to nroff converter at one time, but that's also gone missing. Sorry. Brian ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Runoff ?
For Charlie Noah You contacted me off-list about this post, but my reply to you bounced. I'm not ignoring you. Brian -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Brian Leach Sent: 18 June 2012 08:39 To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? Z is a free full screen editor for UniVerse you can download from my website. And I'm just about to release version 2 of mvDeveloper (also free) into beta. (Why both? 'cos sometimes it's easier to just jump into an editor at TCL, depending on what I'm doing). Can't find my old Runoff clone though - it seems to have gone the way of all flesh. Did also do a runoff to nroff converter at one time, but that's also gone missing. Sorry. Brian ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Runoff ?
Now THAT takes me back! (Ventura) We did some mods for one of our users (added about 8 additional product categorizations and some images) that allowed them to go & build their catalogue programmatically. This was in the days when people sent out paper catalogues (yeah, I know some people still do!) --> used to be a major, 2 year undertaking to produce a new catalogue . suddenly it became something you could compile over a weekend to send off to the printer on Monday I'm all for integrating with the latest productivity tools people have on their desktop - if you are a VAR, and want to sell a "solution" this is mandatory. If you are supporting an in-house application, the effort may not seem worth it . until your application is replaced by something that isn't as powerful, but DOES allow integration to Word, Excel etc. etc Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage > Better by Design! -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Buss, Troy (Contractor, Logitek Systems) Sent: Sunday, 17 June 2012 2:31 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? I agree with Tony on integrating with current tools if possible. A long long time ago, I used Ventura Publisher and created a really nice template using styles, and drove the entire documentation from within the database by exporting the raw data marked with styles. Ventura publisher would merge the marked up export file along with my template style definitions and produce a really nice typeset finished product complete with screen shots, menus and field by field help.. I'm sure there are still tools today that can take a similar approach by merging marked XML or such. Anyway, it worked well, and looked great along with the simplicity of it being all system generated and quick. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Tony Gravagno Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 5:08 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? _ Scanned by IBM Email Security Management Services powered by MessageLabs. For more information please visit http://www.ers.ibm.com This email is intended only for the use of the party to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, or protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copying or distribution of the email or its contents is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately, by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. WARNING: Internet communications are not assured to be secure or clear of inaccuracies as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Therefore, we do not accept responsibility for any errors or omissions that are present in this email, or any attachment, that have arisen as a result of e-mail transmission. _ ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Runoff ?
Z is a free full screen editor for UniVerse you can download from my website. And I'm just about to release version 2 of mvDeveloper (also free) into beta. (Why both? 'cos sometimes it's easier to just jump into an editor at TCL, depending on what I'm doing). Can't find my old Runoff clone though - it seems to have gone the way of all flesh. Did also do a runoff to nroff converter at one time, but that's also gone missing. Sorry. Brian ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Runoff ?
Hi Bill, On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 3:55 AM, Bill Haskett wrote: > A typical big problem today is figuring out what is happening in (through) a > UniObjects connection. This can be monumentally frustrating to track down. > In D3, the socket into D3 could be tandemed to and the data flow could be > watched. Apparently, no one thought this would be a useful feature in the > U2 world so it's either not available or not widely known how to do it. In > mv.NET they, at least, built a window to watch the data flow through their > connection (via UniObjects), which, as we all know, is a tremendous help is > debugging application code. Going OT a little from the original thread we had the above problem when first using uniobjects on projects 5+ years ago. >From experience found the best method to communicate between client and server is to send unique XML messages to a single dispatching subroutine on the server. The dispatching subroutine then looks at the messages and calls the appropriate subroutine handler to send a return XML message back to the client. This is so much easier to debug as you can just watch the XML message conversation go back and forth with client, can also "replay" problematic sequences later in a test environment to track down a problem. For the above today i noticed unidata 7.3 has JSON added so may be able to use that as an alternative medium to XML to carry the messages back and forth between the 2 parties. - Robert ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Runoff ?
"/We've had people use it somewhat here, but then they gave up and went back to the line editor because WED doesn't give you *enough*/." You need to understand that the above statement says so much more about those people than you want to admit. The line editor is a neanderthal tool! There's nothing else one can say about it. The only reason to use it is to alter data in the database (so a neanderthal tool does have some uses). If one rarely does this, than it's of little or no value. WED has so much more value in a Windows environment than that POS editor! Give up on this BS about old PICK tools. They're not coming back. If you want it write your own. Dave Sigafoos wrote a really nice BASIC editor but I don't have the source code (nicer than JET, but in BASIC). The program was not as powerful as, say, the XLr8 tool (if you can stand Eclipse). Eclipse has a useful place for things like XLr8 (a development tool) (why Eclipse would be used for anything else is beyond me). :-) For many of us moving our development forward, the simplicity of PICK is long gone. Now, you need multiple log files. Debuggers don't work across solutions. Logging is spread around everywhere, you need to keep your own logging within your code to monitor errors. This is certainly not good, but there's no getting around the environment technology has dragged us into at the moment. A typical big problem today is figuring out what is happening in (through) a UniObjects connection. This can be monumentally frustrating to track down. In D3, the socket into D3 could be tandemed to and the data flow could be watched. Apparently, no one thought this would be a useful feature in the U2 world so it's either not available or not widely known how to do it. In mv.NET they, at least, built a window to watch the data flow through their connection (via UniObjects), which, as we all know, is a tremendous help is debugging application code. Now, imagine these problems associated with multiple layers of BS technology to provide a solution and you now understand why the simple PICK paradigm was very nice. I keep thinking if U2 could provide a solid, debuggable, web solution for applications that would go a long way of overcoming this monumental problem everyone has by at least attempting to minimize the technological overload while providing a path to the future (web-based applications). But then, they go and use Eclipse! Go figure... Most of us appreciate the simplicity of ancient PICK, but we don't see the point is wishing we had 30 year old telnet tools. Just some thoughts... :-) Bill Untitled Page - Original Message - *From:* wjhon...@aol.com *To:* u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 6/17/2012 8:08 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] Runoff ? The point of having a built-in full screen editor in Universe is to take advantage of things that you can only do from within Universe. By the way I'm on Windows so uvvi isn't an option. WED is just a dumb full-screen editor. We've had people use it somewhat here, but then they gave up and went back to the line editor because WED doesn't give you *enough*. Just being able to cut-and-paste and point isn't enough compared to what the line editor can do, or what JET used to be able to do. So our options so far are one hobbled pony or a deaf and blind mule. Because IBM or Rocket decided the racehorse needed to be made into horse burger. -Original Message----- From: Ed Clark To: U2 Users List Sent: Sun, Jun 17, 2012 7:34 am Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? uvvi is the program that universe uses to launch the vi editor on unix. It does the work of converting an item and filename to an os path that can be passed to vi. IIRC, the source is in APP.PROGS, so you can change it to use any editor--emacs, stevie, or whatever else you like on unix. If you are using a windowed desktop (X, gnome, kde) then it can run any of the modern graphical editors. I don't recall there being an equivalent from universe on windows, but you can modify uvvi to launch any windows editor, provided that you are running your shell directly on the server, and are on windows xp or earlier. You lose that ability with windows vista. But if you have Accuterm, you can use its built-in WED editor, or use accuterm scripting to launch any windows editor that you like. On Jun 17, 2012, at 1:24 AM, Wjhonson wrote: I have no idea what DBTools is, nor what uvvi is -Original Message- From: Boydell, Stuart To: U2 Users List Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 7:23 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? Please explain why you think the existing solution (DBTools) is any the worse for not being "built into". Otherwise its certainly not runoff but it sure as hell better than the other "full scre
Re: [U2] Runoff ?
The point of having a built-in full screen editor in Universe is to take advantage of things that you can only do from within Universe. By the way I'm on Windows so uvvi isn't an option. WED is just a dumb full-screen editor. We've had people use it somewhat here, but then they gave up and went back to the line editor because WED doesn't give you *enough*. Just being able to cut-and-paste and point isn't enough compared to what the line editor can do, or what JET used to be able to do. So our options so far are one hobbled pony or a deaf and blind mule. Because IBM or Rocket decided the racehorse needed to be made into horse burger. -Original Message- From: Ed Clark To: U2 Users List Sent: Sun, Jun 17, 2012 7:34 am Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? uvvi is the program that universe uses to launch the vi editor on unix. It does the work of converting an item and filename to an os path that can be passed to vi. IIRC, the source is in APP.PROGS, so you can change it to use any editor--emacs, stevie, or whatever else you like on unix. If you are using a windowed desktop (X, gnome, kde) then it can run any of the modern graphical editors. I don't recall there being an equivalent from universe on windows, but you can modify uvvi to launch any windows editor, provided that you are running your shell directly on the server, and are on windows xp or earlier. You lose that ability with windows vista. But if you have Accuterm, you can use its built-in WED editor, or use accuterm scripting to launch any windows editor that you like. On Jun 17, 2012, at 1:24 AM, Wjhonson wrote: > > I have no idea what DBTools is, nor what uvvi is > > > > > > -Original Message- > From: Boydell, Stuart > To: U2 Users List > Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 7:23 pm > Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? > > > Please explain why you think the existing solution (DBTools) is any the worse > for not being "built into". Otherwise its certainly not runoff but it sure as > hell better than the other "full screen" editor , uvvi, no? > > ________ > From: Wjhonson > Sent: 17-Jun-12 5:52 > To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org > Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? > > > Don't be so sure. > We don't even have a full screen editor built into Universe.... > > > > > > > -Original Message- > From: Ed Clark > To: U2 Users List > Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 6:56 am > Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? > > > I'm sure this shiny toy has probably been reproduced many times for universe and > unidata. Maybe someone can open source their version and put it on pickwiki. > Doesn't seem like Rocket Science. > > On Jun 15, 2012, at 9:09 PM, Ray Wurlod wrote: > >> With you on that! >> >> Bring back RUNOFF! >> ___ >> U2-Users mailing list >> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Runoff ?
BDT is the very tool that has bugs in it that make it unusable for me. You must have missed that thread. -Original Message- From: Boydell, Stuart To: U2 Users List Sent: Sun, Jun 17, 2012 1:22 am Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? You can lead a horse to water but a fool won't even look. http://www.rocketsoftware.com/u2/products/u2-clients-and-db-tools/u2-db-tools From: Wjhonson Sent: 17-Jun-12 15:31 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? I have no idea what DBTools is, nor what uvvi is -Original Message- From: Boydell, Stuart To: U2 Users List Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 7:23 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? Please explain why you think the existing solution (DBTools) is any the worse for not being "built into". Otherwise its certainly not runoff but it sure as hell better than the other "full screen" editor , uvvi, no? From: Wjhonson Sent: 17-Jun-12 5:52 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? Don't be so sure. We don't even have a full screen editor built into Universe -Original Message- From: Ed Clark To: U2 Users List Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 6:56 am Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? I'm sure this shiny toy has probably been reproduced many times for universe and unidata. Maybe someone can open source their version and put it on pickwiki. Doesn't seem like Rocket Science. On Jun 15, 2012, at 9:09 PM, Ray Wurlod wrote: > With you on that! > > Bring back RUNOFF! > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Runoff ?
uvvi is the program that universe uses to launch the vi editor on unix. It does the work of converting an item and filename to an os path that can be passed to vi. IIRC, the source is in APP.PROGS, so you can change it to use any editor--emacs, stevie, or whatever else you like on unix. If you are using a windowed desktop (X, gnome, kde) then it can run any of the modern graphical editors. I don't recall there being an equivalent from universe on windows, but you can modify uvvi to launch any windows editor, provided that you are running your shell directly on the server, and are on windows xp or earlier. You lose that ability with windows vista. But if you have Accuterm, you can use its built-in WED editor, or use accuterm scripting to launch any windows editor that you like. On Jun 17, 2012, at 1:24 AM, Wjhonson wrote: > > I have no idea what DBTools is, nor what uvvi is > > > > > > -Original Message- > From: Boydell, Stuart > To: U2 Users List > Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 7:23 pm > Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? > > > Please explain why you think the existing solution (DBTools) is any the worse > for not being "built into". Otherwise its certainly not runoff but it sure as > hell better than the other "full screen" editor , uvvi, no? > > > From: Wjhonson > Sent: 17-Jun-12 5:52 > To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org > Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? > > > Don't be so sure. > We don't even have a full screen editor built into Universe > > > > > > > -Original Message- > From: Ed Clark > To: U2 Users List > Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 6:56 am > Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? > > > I'm sure this shiny toy has probably been reproduced many times for universe > and > unidata. Maybe someone can open source their version and put it on pickwiki. > Doesn't seem like Rocket Science. > > On Jun 15, 2012, at 9:09 PM, Ray Wurlod wrote: > >> With you on that! >> >> Bring back RUNOFF! >> ___ >> U2-Users mailing list >> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Runoff ?
You can lead a horse to water but a fool won't even look. http://www.rocketsoftware.com/u2/products/u2-clients-and-db-tools/u2-db-tools From: Wjhonson Sent: 17-Jun-12 15:31 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? I have no idea what DBTools is, nor what uvvi is -Original Message- From: Boydell, Stuart To: U2 Users List Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 7:23 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? Please explain why you think the existing solution (DBTools) is any the worse for not being "built into". Otherwise its certainly not runoff but it sure as hell better than the other "full screen" editor , uvvi, no? From: Wjhonson Sent: 17-Jun-12 5:52 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? Don't be so sure. We don't even have a full screen editor built into Universe -Original Message- From: Ed Clark To: U2 Users List Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 6:56 am Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? I'm sure this shiny toy has probably been reproduced many times for universe and unidata. Maybe someone can open source their version and put it on pickwiki. Doesn't seem like Rocket Science. On Jun 15, 2012, at 9:09 PM, Ray Wurlod wrote: > With you on that! > > Bring back RUNOFF! > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Runoff ?
It's fine to say "there must be a way" But if no one actually gives "a way" then it's not a very useful thread. -Original Message- From: Buss, Troy (Contractor, Logitek Systems) (Contractor, Logitek Systems) To: U2 Users List Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 9:58 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? I agree with Tony on integrating with current tools if possible. A long long time ago, I used Ventura Publisher and created a really nice template using styles, and drove the entire documentation from within the database by exporting the raw data marked with styles. Ventura publisher would merge the marked up export file along with my template style definitions and produce a really nice typeset finished product complete with screen shots, menus and field by field help.. I'm sure there are still tools today that can take a similar approach by merging marked XML or such. Anyway, it worked well, and looked great along with the simplicity of it being all system generated and quick. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Tony Gravagno Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 5:08 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? _ Scanned by IBM Email Security Management Services powered by MessageLabs. For more information please visit http://www.ers.ibm.com This email is intended only for the use of the party to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, or protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copying or distribution of the email or its contents is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately, by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. WARNING: Internet communications are not assured to be secure or clear of inaccuracies as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Therefore, we do not accept responsibility for any errors or omissions that are present in this email, or any attachment, that have arisen as a result of e-mail transmission. _ ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Runoff ?
I have no idea what DBTools is, nor what uvvi is -Original Message- From: Boydell, Stuart To: U2 Users List Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 7:23 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? Please explain why you think the existing solution (DBTools) is any the worse for not being "built into". Otherwise its certainly not runoff but it sure as hell better than the other "full screen" editor , uvvi, no? From: Wjhonson Sent: 17-Jun-12 5:52 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? Don't be so sure. We don't even have a full screen editor built into Universe -Original Message- From: Ed Clark To: U2 Users List Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 6:56 am Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? I'm sure this shiny toy has probably been reproduced many times for universe and unidata. Maybe someone can open source their version and put it on pickwiki. Doesn't seem like Rocket Science. On Jun 15, 2012, at 9:09 PM, Ray Wurlod wrote: > With you on that! > > Bring back RUNOFF! > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Runoff ?
I submit a bug or error to you and didn't hear any more about it. So ? I wouldn't mind using your tool if I could get it to actually work -Original Message- From: Doug Averch To: U2 Users List Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 5:43 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? Will: If you are looking for a full screen telnet interface editor jump back to the 80's and 90's and enjoy you coding experience. 1. No Version control. 2. No Code completion 3. No Code templates 4. Limited color coding 5. No local version 6. No built-in compare Editor I can go on. You obviously don't think highly of the two editors built on the Eclipse IDE. Come on give us a break. Whether you like or don't like them, you should support the fact the your DB vendor is trying and another company called U2logic is busting our humps trying to make the best tools for Universe. Regards, Doug www.u2logic.com ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Runoff ?
what do you mean that no one else has one? I used one on mvBase, so someone has one. -Original Message- From: Tony Gravagno <3xk547...@sneakemail.com> To: u2-users Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 5:34 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? > From: Wjhonson > Don't be so sure. We don't even have a full screen editor built into Universe Neither does any other database. Get over it. Pick people are spoiled by such things. Edit your items with a real text editor. Use AccuTerm wED or launch any freeware you choose from TCL. Ray Wurlod wrote: > Bring back RUNOFF! > From: Ed Clark > I'm sure this shiny toy has probably been reproduced many times for > universe and unidata. Maybe someone can open source their version > and put it on pickwiki. Doesn't seem like Rocket Science. Assential owns/owned JET. Internally that's almost equivalent. Dunno how one obtains it. Personally I think people should integrate their database and applications with real word processing tools, rather than trying to build word processing into a DBMS. Doesn't that just perpetuate the comments about ancient and legacy technology when people walk around the office and see what's on the desktops? Wouldn't it be cooler if your mainstream word processor had full access to your MV data? ... which is the way every other platform in the world works ... These days we have Microsoft Word, Google Docs, OpenOffice, and other professional word processing applications, many free. Rather than stepping back in time it would be nice if people took a step forward to create and ask for tools that integrated modern software with MV. That's exactly the nature of everything that I do, but too many people are still looking for stuff like Runoff. T ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Runoff ?
I agree with Tony on integrating with current tools if possible. A long long time ago, I used Ventura Publisher and created a really nice template using styles, and drove the entire documentation from within the database by exporting the raw data marked with styles. Ventura publisher would merge the marked up export file along with my template style definitions and produce a really nice typeset finished product complete with screen shots, menus and field by field help.. I'm sure there are still tools today that can take a similar approach by merging marked XML or such. Anyway, it worked well, and looked great along with the simplicity of it being all system generated and quick. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Tony Gravagno Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 5:08 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? _ Scanned by IBM Email Security Management Services powered by MessageLabs. For more information please visit http://www.ers.ibm.com This email is intended only for the use of the party to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, or protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copying or distribution of the email or its contents is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately, by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. WARNING: Internet communications are not assured to be secure or clear of inaccuracies as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Therefore, we do not accept responsibility for any errors or omissions that are present in this email, or any attachment, that have arisen as a result of e-mail transmission. _ ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Runoff ?
You missed my point. (and this ties back to a thread on the MVDBMS group about shiny toys). Runoff doesn't need to be part of universe. Rocket doesn't need to spend time on it. I know for a fact that there are clones of runoff for both universe and jbase (and I would put them on pickwiki myself but they aren't mine to give away). I have worked with universe applications from 3 different vendors that had their own runoff. There must be many more. If we were talking about Windows, there would be a thousand runoff clones available for free download or purchase (and there probably are a lot of old-style text formatting programs like that for windows). If Microsoft thought that runoff would give them a competitive edge, they would buy someone's version and put it into windows. I think that's where every Microsoft innovation comes from--they buy or copy toys that looks good. Similarly someone at Vmark or Ardent would have developed or bought a runoff if enough customers really wanted it. They didn't, and now it's moot because there are so many other ways to accomplish what runoff does. If you truly pine for runoff, you can have it. You can find someone who has a version for universe, or you can even code your own. Making your own would be easy. Getting someone to sell you one would be harder because there isn't much of a market for MV development tools, so I'm making an open appeal for someone with universe runoff to put it on pickwiki or offer it for sale. Failing that, you could contract someone to clone runoff for you. The same goes for full screen editors. Most platforms had something: JET on some pick licensees (that was originally a third-party app, wasn't it?), JED on jbase, your choice of unix editors on universe. But no work was put into them because everyone wrote their own, or bought one from someone like Wordmark, And when we all got PCs on our desks instead of dumb terminals we found that we had a world of editors open to us. You don't need rocket to do runoff. You need Rocket to add the BIG shiny toys that will make the database competitive with Oracle and SAP. On Jun 16, 2012, at 3:44 PM, Wjhonson wrote: > > Don't be so sure. > We don't even have a full screen editor built into Universe > > > > > > > -Original Message----- > From: Ed Clark > To: U2 Users List > Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 6:56 am > Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? > > > I'm sure this shiny toy has probably been reproduced many times for universe > and > unidata. Maybe someone can open source their version and put it on pickwiki. > Doesn't seem like Rocket Science. > > On Jun 15, 2012, at 9:09 PM, Ray Wurlod wrote: > >> With you on that! >> >> Bring back RUNOFF! >> ___ >> U2-Users mailing list >> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Runoff ?
Please explain why you think the existing solution (DBTools) is any the worse for not being "built into". Otherwise its certainly not runoff but it sure as hell better than the other "full screen" editor , uvvi, no? From: Wjhonson Sent: 17-Jun-12 5:52 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? Don't be so sure. We don't even have a full screen editor built into Universe -Original Message- From: Ed Clark To: U2 Users List Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 6:56 am Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? I'm sure this shiny toy has probably been reproduced many times for universe and unidata. Maybe someone can open source their version and put it on pickwiki. Doesn't seem like Rocket Science. On Jun 15, 2012, at 9:09 PM, Ray Wurlod wrote: > With you on that! > > Bring back RUNOFF! > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Runoff ?
Will: If you are looking for a full screen telnet interface editor jump back to the 80's and 90's and enjoy you coding experience. 1. No Version control. 2. No Code completion 3. No Code templates 4. Limited color coding 5. No local version 6. No built-in compare Editor I can go on. You obviously don't think highly of the two editors built on the Eclipse IDE. Come on give us a break. Whether you like or don't like them, you should support the fact the your DB vendor is trying and another company called U2logic is busting our humps trying to make the best tools for Universe. Regards, Doug www.u2logic.com ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Runoff ?
> From: Wjhonson > Don't be so sure. We don't even have a full screen editor built into Universe Neither does any other database. Get over it. Pick people are spoiled by such things. Edit your items with a real text editor. Use AccuTerm wED or launch any freeware you choose from TCL. Ray Wurlod wrote: > Bring back RUNOFF! > From: Ed Clark > I'm sure this shiny toy has probably been reproduced many times for > universe and unidata. Maybe someone can open source their version > and put it on pickwiki. Doesn't seem like Rocket Science. Assential owns/owned JET. Internally that's almost equivalent. Dunno how one obtains it. Personally I think people should integrate their database and applications with real word processing tools, rather than trying to build word processing into a DBMS. Doesn't that just perpetuate the comments about ancient and legacy technology when people walk around the office and see what's on the desktops? Wouldn't it be cooler if your mainstream word processor had full access to your MV data? ... which is the way every other platform in the world works ... These days we have Microsoft Word, Google Docs, OpenOffice, and other professional word processing applications, many free. Rather than stepping back in time it would be nice if people took a step forward to create and ask for tools that integrated modern software with MV. That's exactly the nature of everything that I do, but too many people are still looking for stuff like Runoff. T ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Runoff ?
Don't be so sure. We don't even have a full screen editor built into Universe -Original Message- From: Ed Clark To: U2 Users List Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 6:56 am Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? I'm sure this shiny toy has probably been reproduced many times for universe and unidata. Maybe someone can open source their version and put it on pickwiki. Doesn't seem like Rocket Science. On Jun 15, 2012, at 9:09 PM, Ray Wurlod wrote: > With you on that! > > Bring back RUNOFF! > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Runoff ?
I loved runoff on the Pr1me. I wrote a COBOL book for a course in runoff during the summer of 1981, but rats I don't have the 9-track with the source anymore. While the cost of entry to current word processors is certainly lower, I really loved runoff. Word is much more frustrating to work with at times. Cheers! --dawn On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 8:28 AM, Ed Clark wrote: > I'm sure this shiny toy has probably been reproduced many times for universe > and unidata. Maybe someone can open source their version and put it on > pickwiki. Doesn't seem like Rocket Science. > > On Jun 15, 2012, at 9:09 PM, Ray Wurlod wrote: > >> With you on that! >> >> Bring back RUNOFF! >> ___ >> U2-Users mailing list >> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- Dawn M. Wolthuis Take and give some delight today ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Runoff ?
I'm sure this shiny toy has probably been reproduced many times for universe and unidata. Maybe someone can open source their version and put it on pickwiki. Doesn't seem like Rocket Science. On Jun 15, 2012, at 9:09 PM, Ray Wurlod wrote: > With you on that! > > Bring back RUNOFF! > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Runoff ?
With you on that! Bring back RUNOFF! ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Runoff ?
Why is this in the U2 forum? To my knowledge Runoff isn't supported in U2. Once again your assertion is incorrect. Word _can_ be coded to do pretty much anything, including reading/writing from MV, and importing images and structured text from various sources. I know, I do it all the time. If someone wanted to pay me for the effort, I'd take on a project that causes documentation to self-update. For information on this topic research Office Add-ins perhaps with VSTO, or VBA. HTH T > From: Wjhonson > RUNOFF did some things that simply can't be replicated with WORD > documentation. > > I want documentation that is smart enough to self-update when > control items change. > > Why can't my user documentation know that I've added a new menu > item? ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
[U2] Runoff ?
RUNOFF did some things that simply can't be replicated with WORD documentation. I want documentation that is smart enough to self-update when control items change. Why can't my user documentation know that I've added a new menu item? ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
