Issues with building Ubuntu packages

[Ralf Mardorf]

Hi,

actually this is a user request, but on the user list it was
recommended to send my request to this list, so I give it a go.

This is the original request:
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2015-August/282029.html

Regards,
Ralf

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Green hard disk drives

[Ralf Mardorf]

Hi,

sorry for cross-posting, but there's quasi no traffic at
Ubuntu devel discuss, so I hope somebody subscribed to
Ubuntu Studio devel has got an idea, how to find the culprit.

A few days ago I tried to fix an issue cause by lxpanel, respl. by a
dependency of it, libfm. This issue is fixed by upstream.
I sent a request, since I thought that I build broken packages,
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2015-August/015673.html .
Something still wakes up green drives.

The long and the short of it, I build packages in two ways:
1. http://pastebin.com/kim6UF4j
2. http://pastebin.com/aMzjguwG

The packages might be broken or not, with purged libfm and lxpanel
packages something still wakes up green drives. FWIW gvfs never was and
still isn't installed.


I use smartctl to monitor the spin downs and spin ups:


[root@moonstudio weremouse]# date;smartctl -a /dev/sdc|grep Cou|grep -v R
Wed Aug 12 22:13:40 CEST 2015
  4 Start_Stop_Count0x0032   098   098   000Old_age   Always   
-   2857
 12 Power_Cycle_Count   0x0032   099   099   000Old_age   Always   
-   1123
193 Load_Cycle_Count0x0032   195   195   000Old_age   Always   
-   15160

[root@moonstudio weremouse]# date;smartctl -a /dev/sdc|grep Cou|grep -v R
Thu Aug 13 09:28:26 CEST 2015
  4 Start_Stop_Count0x0032   098   098   000Old_age   Always   
-   2868
 12 Power_Cycle_Count   0x0032   099   099   000Old_age   Always   
-   1123
193 Load_Cycle_Count0x0032   195   195   000Old_age   Always   
-   15182


Now I try to find the culprit, so now the packages libudisks2-0, udisks2,
spacefm, spacefm-common and rodent were purged, because they could wake up
green drives, but they shouldn't do this when they aren't used.
In addition 31 dependencies were removed too. However, udisks2, spacefm
and rodent don't wake up green drives on Arch Linux, IOW for an install
were nearly everything is the way, as it's intended by upstream.


[root@moonstudio weremouse]# apt-get autoremove --dry-run
[snip]
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[root@moonstudio weremouse]# dpkg -P libudisks2-0 udisks2 spacefm 
spacefm-common rodent
[snip]
[root@moonstudio weremouse]# apt-get autoremove
[snip]
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  desktop-file-utils gdisk libaacs0 libatasmart4 libavcodec-ffmpeg56 
libavformat-ffmpeg56 libavutil-ffmpeg54 libbdplus0
  libbluray1 libcrystalhd3 libffmpegthumbnailer4v5 libgme0 libgsm1 libmodplug1 
libmp3lame0 libopenjpeg5 libopus0
  libpango1.0-0 libschroedinger-1.0-0 libshine3 libsoxr0 libssh-gcrypt-4 
libswresample-ffmpeg1 libswscale-ffmpeg3
  libtwolame0 libx264-146 libx265-59 libxvidcore4 libzip2 libzvbi-common 
libzvbi0
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 31 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[snip]


To be completely safe that no process is left:
[root@moonstudio weremouse]# shutdown -r now


[root@moonstudio weremouse]# date;smartctl -a /dev/sdc|grep Cou|grep -v R
Thu Aug 13 11:32:40 CEST 2015
  4 Start_Stop_Count0x0032   098   098   000Old_age   Always   
-   2869
 12 Power_Cycle_Count   0x0032   099   099   000Old_age   Always   
-   1124
193 Load_Cycle_Count0x0032   195   195   000Old_age   Always   
-   15183

To be continued...


Some information about the install:


[weremouse@moonstudio ~]$ cat /etc/issue
Ubuntu Wily Werewolf (development branch) \n \l

[weremouse@moonstudio ~]$ uname -rm
4.1.0-3-lowlatency x86_64


It's a minimalist install from a server image, without installing server
packages when the installer asked for it.
I run openbox and until now just add a few additional packages. The size
of the install is around 2 GiB small.

Currently everything is installed from official repositories, excepted of
one package I build, to install Claws from git.


Any hints to catch the culprit are welcome.


Regards,
Ralf

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PS: Green hard disk drives

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 12:09:47 +0200, I wrote:
>To be continued...

There's no need to run smartctl again. I sit side by side to the green
drive and without gvfs, libfm, lxpanel, udisks2, spacefm, rodent
packages installed, something waked up the green drive. I didn't start
any Qt or KDE based application, so the KDE equivalent to GVFS can't be
the culprit either. In my experiences the KDE thingy only wakes up
green drives after a KDE app, such as K3b was launched for at least one
time, while GVFS just needs to be installed to wake up green drives.
Anyway, I guess based on Qt, just QupZilla is installed, but I run
IceCat.

Btw. I forgot to mention IceCat, it's from upstream, not from official
repos. However, QupZilla and IceCat most likely aren't involved in that
issue. FWIW I use both on Arch Linux too.

Now I'm absolutely clueless, what touches the green drive without
reason.

If I shouldn't find out myself or somebody shouldn't tell me, I need
to remove my Ubuntu install, IOW I have to drop Ubuntu Studio. At the
moment no pro-audio packages are installed, excepted of
libjack-jackd2-0, since it's a gstreamer1.0-plugins-good dependency, so
it's really a minimalist install.

:(

Regards,
Ralf

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How to file a bug against an unknown package? - Was: Green hard disk drives

[Ralf Mardorf]

Any ideas how to file a bug against unknown buggy software, or perhaps
a bad unknown Ubuntu specific configuration?

A bug report is useless, since I don't know what package does cause the
issue.

:D


Begin forwarded message:

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 12:26:25 -
From: Ubuntu Foundations Team Bug Bot <1484...@bugs.launchpad.net>
To: ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net
Subject: [Bug 1484497] Re: [Wily] wakes up green drives without a valid
reason


Thank you for taking the time to report this bug and helping to make
Ubuntu better.  It seems that your bug report is not filed about a
specific source package though, rather it is just filed against Ubuntu
in general.  It is important that bug reports be filed about source
packages so that people interested in the package can find the bugs
about it.  You can find some hints about determining what package your
bug might be about at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage.
You might also ask for help in the #ubuntu-bugs irc channel on Freenode.

To change the source package that this bug is filed about visit
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1484497/+editstatus and add the
package name in the text box next to the word Package.

[This is an automated message.  I apologize if it reached you
inappropriately; please just reply to this message indicating so.]

** Tags added: bot-comment

-- 
You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug
report.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1484497

Title:
  [Wily] wakes up green drives without a valid reason

Status in Ubuntu:
  New

Bug description:
  Hi,

  a minimalist Wily server install, around 4.5 GiB small does cause
  endless spin downs and spin ups, so that green drives get damaged. I
  maintain an around 37.5 GiB large Arch Linux install, quasi using the
  same software used by the Wily install and in addition a little bit
  more software, which isn't used by the Wily install. For Arch Linux I
  don't experience this issue. I expect the same for an Ubuntu install.

  I'm already hunting the culprit, see
  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-devel/2015-August/006570.html
  and
  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-devel/2015-August/006571.html,
  but run out of ideas.

  The claim the install is 2 GiB small is a typo, the backup archive is
  of that size.

  However, assumed Ubuntu won't contribute to
  http://andrewmcconnell.photoshelter.com/gallery/GoLuiBLHIsmM this
  "feature" should be removed from the defaults.

  $ lsb_release -rd
  Description:  Ubuntu Wily Werewolf (development branch)
  Release:  15.10

  Regards,
  Ralf

To manage notifications about this bug go to:
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Re: How to file a bug against an unknown package? - Was: Green hard disk drives

[Ralf Mardorf]

Thank you,

unfortunately it doesn't help.

On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 14:12:23 +0100, João M. S. Silva wrote:
>I'm not sure if I understood your issue correctly, but I also have a 
>server with a mechanical disk which periodically spins, don't know why.
>
>There are tools like powertop or so, but I guess you already tried
>that. I think I also did and it didn't help.
>
>Maybe try Linux (kernel) IRC channel?  

It's not a server, just an install from a server ISO, because this
was the minimalist install I could find.

I want that the green drive spins down, I don't want that buggy
software wakes up the green drive. The drive should stay asleep.

I'm used to Arch Linux, I don't want an OOTB install with tons of
unwanted default configs and unwanted packages. Arch and Ubuntu are the
most used distros for audio productions, so to contribute to Linux
audio, it would be useful to have an Ubuntu install parallel to my Arch
install.

Now the problem is, that I can't find the package that does cause the
issue. My drive stays asleep when using Arch Linux! IOW there
already must be some package installed for Ubuntu Wily, that I don't
want to have installed.

It's not kernel related, it must be some disk monitoring, that's why
GVFS never is installed on my systems and that's why for testing
purpose I removed a few packages, such as udisks2 from the Ubuntu
install.

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Re: Green hard disk drives

[Ralf Mardorf]

Thank you for your reply,

a lot of people trying to help me guess I need to fix my green WD
drive. The drive is ok, does exactly what it should do and what it must
do regarding an EU Regulation for external drives.

It does not happen for Linux in general.

It happens for my Ubuntu install, not for my Arch install. Nobody added
a fix to the Arch install, I set up Arch on my own, just didn't install
unwanted software.

I want to do the same for my Ubuntu install.

On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 14:16:38 +0100, J Fernyhough wrote:
>I believe this is a "known" issue with WD Green drives. There are a few
>workarounds for this, for example:
>
>https://forum.manjaro.org/index.php?topic=17890
>
>Essentially, the trick is to remove the drive's internal head "park"
>timer so Linux's own power management can take care of things.

No, it's a common misconception that the drives need to be fixed. I'm
using Arch Linux and no software wakes up the same drive on the same
machine. If I find such software, I report the bug upstream.

Take a look at
http://sourceforge.net/p/lxde/bugs/751/
it was fixed by
https://github.com/lxde/libfm/commit/994a1e25ba0c3da80575fc002af17ab02ed5998b

A lot of people are used to GVFS and similar software. I never ever
would install it!

For my needs, it's absolutely useless software that wakes up green
drives.

I really want to know what is installed on my Ubuntu, that does wake up
green drives.

Regards,
Ralf


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Re: Green hard disk drives

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 13:39:05 +, Michael Bejer-Andersen wrote:
>Have you looked into
>lm-profiler(http://linux.die.net/man/8/lm-profiler) to hopefully catch
>what is waking up the drive?

No, I didn't. Thank you, I now have laptop-mode-tools + 29 dependency
packages installed. Btw. it's a tower PC, not a laptop, but that
shouldn't matter to monitoring disk activity.

Regarding

$ dpkg -L laptop-mode-tools | grep conf

it has got no default conf, however running

# lm-profiler > /var/log/lm-profiler.log

already seems to do what's needed. If not I'll read the FAQ link you
provided and do some Internet research.

Regards,
Ralf


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Re: Green hard disk drives

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 19:47:28 +0100, João M. S. Silva wrote:
>With option commit=50 in the ext4 partitions I was able to reduce jbd2 
>IO frequency. But the disk keeps spinning on/off with a frequency of 
>around 10 s.
>
>So jdb2 (which was also a problem for Arch Linux users, saw it in a
>post from 2011) is not the culprit.

We have different drives ;). My drives is awake for 30 minutes, before
it spins down.


Regarding my bug report I received two messages:

1.
  "** Package changed: ubuntu => linux (Ubuntu)"

2.
  "This bug is missing log files that will aid in diagnosing the
  problem.
  >From a terminal window please run:  

  apport-collect 1484497

  and then change the status of the bug to 'Confirmed'."


The first I did was removing Apport.

Apport

"[...] You can click on "Show Details..." to see what data it collected
[...] Apport is not enabled by default in stable releases, even if it
is installed. The automatic crash interception component of apport is
disabled by default in stable releases for a number of reasons:

Apport collects potentially sensitive data, such as core dumps,
stack traces, and log files. They can contain passwords, credit
card numbers, serial numbers, and other private material. [...]"
- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport

Hopefully it's possible to communicate from human to human to the
developers, as it is possible on all other bug tracker. I'm willing to
copy and paste the needed output.


At the moment I run a script based on lm-profiler:

[weremouse@moonstudio ~]$ cat /usr/src/lm-profiler.sh 
#!/bin/dash
# 2015-08-13

if [ "$(id -u)" != "0" ]; then exit 1; fi

echo "Run   killall lm-profiler   to exit the script."

case $1 in
  "") device=/dev/sdc;;
   *) device=$1;;
esac
log_of="/var/log/lm-profiler"$(date "+%m%b%Y_%H%M%S")".log"

date "+%a, %m %b %Y %T %z" > $log_of
echo "smartctl -A $device|grep Cou|grep -v R" >> $log_of
smartctl -a $device|grep Cou|grep -v R>> $log_of

printf "\nlm-profiler: "  >> $log_of
lm-profiler   >> $log_of

date "+%a, %m %b %Y %T %z">> $log_of
echo "smartctl -A $device|grep Cou|grep -v R" >> $log_of
smartctl -a $device|grep Cou|grep -v R>> $log_of

exit

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Re: How to file a bug against an unknown package? - Was: Green hard disk drives

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 13:11:54 -0700, Michael Loftis wrote:
>Maybe try a little harder to ID the process causing the wakeup?  Have
>you tried looking for blocked processes at the moment you hear the
>drive start to spin up?  Look for processes in D state at the time the
>drive is spinning up.

Thank you,

perhaps I should try with a loop next time:

[weremouse@moonstudio ~]$ ps aux|grep D|grep -v grep
USER   PID %CPU %MEMVSZ   RSS TTY  STAT START   TIME COMMAND
[weremouse@moonstudio ~]$

A script running lm-profiler didn't find anything /dev/sdc related, while
the Start_Stop and Load_Cycle counts increased.
The script is posted here:
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2015-August/015686.html

sdc   is the external green drive
sdb11 is the Ubuntu install including all directories,
  no separated partitions, excepted of data partitions

This is the relevant part of the script's log file:

[weremouse@moonstudio ~]$ grep 2015 -A4 -B21 
/var/log/lm-profiler08Aug2015_195923.log
Thu, 08 Aug 2015 19:59:23 +0200
smartctl -A /dev/sdc|grep Cou|grep -v R
  4 Start_Stop_Count0x0032   098   098   000Old_age   Always   
-   2872
 12 Power_Cycle_Count   0x0032   099   099   000Old_age   Always   
-   1125
193 Load_Cycle_Count0x0032   195   195   000Old_age   Always   
-   15187
--
Write frequency :   
  4 systemd-journal
 10 kworker/u8:2
 45 kworker/u8:1
 60 kworker/u8:0
128 jbd2/sdb11-8
Read frequency : 

Profiling run completed.

Program: "anacron"
Reason:  standard recommendation (program may not be running)
Init script: none
If you want to disable this program, you should do so manually.

Program: "cron"
Reason:  standard recommendation (program may not be running)
Init script: /etc/init.d/cron (GUESSED)

Do you want to disable this service in battery mode? [y/N]: 

Thu, 08 Aug 2015 22:38:05 +0200
smartctl -A /dev/sdc|grep Cou|grep -v R
  4 Start_Stop_Count0x0032   098   098   000Old_age   Always   
-   2875
 12 Power_Cycle_Count   0x0032   099   099   000Old_age   Always   
-   1125
193 Load_Cycle_Count0x0032   195   195   000Old_age   Always   
-   15193

Regards,
Ralf

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Re: How to file a bug against an unknown package? - Was: Green hard disk drives

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 00:57:42 +0100, João M. S. Silva wrote:
>If jbd2 is writing 12.8 times per min how can your disk spin down
>after 30 min?

As already pointed out, the drive in question is _sdc_, not _sdb_ [1].

Regards,
Ralf

[1]
On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 23:20:25 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>[snip]
>A script running lm-profiler didn't find anything /dev/sdc related,
^^^
^^^
>while the Start_Stop and Load_Cycle counts increased.
>[snip]
>sdc   is the external green drive
>sdb11 is the Ubuntu install including all directories,
>  no separated partitions, excepted of data partitions
>
>This is the relevant part of the script's log file:
>
>[weremouse@moonstudio ~]$ grep 2015 -A4 -B21 
>/var/log/lm-profiler08Aug2015_195923.log
>Thu, 08 Aug 2015 19:59:23 +0200
>smartctl -A /dev/sdc|grep Cou|grep -v R
>[snip]   ^^^
  ^^^
>[snip]   
>  4 systemd-journal
> 10 kworker/u8:2
> 45 kworker/u8:1
> 60 kworker/u8:0
>128 jbd2/sdb11-8
>[snip]   ^^^
  ^^^

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Re: How to file a bug against an unknown package? - Was: Green hard disk drives

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 01:33:46 +0100, João M. S. Silva wrote:
>On 08/15/2015 01:12 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>> As already pointed out, the drive in question is _sdc_, not _sdb_ 
>
>What about kworker?

I wonder, if AppArmor or any of the other software I didn't chose to
install myself could be the culprit.

It unlikely is kernel related. It most likely is caused by some user
space software.

However, I anyway need to compile an Rt patched kernel and could do it,
using the same config as for my Arch install.

[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ grep kwork 
/mnt/moonstudio/var/log/lm-profiler08Aug2015_195923.log | grep sdc
[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ grep kwork 
/mnt/moonstudio/var/log/lm-profiler08Aug2015_195923.log 
Write accesses at 7/600 in lm-profiler run: kworker/u8:0
Write accesses at 30/600 in lm-profiler run: jbd2/sdb11-8 kworker/u8:0  
Write accesses at 34/600 in lm-profiler run: kworker/u8:0   
Write accesses at 39/600 in lm-profiler run: kworker/u8:1   
Write accesses at 44/600 in lm-profiler run: kworker/u8:1   
Write accesses at 48/600 in lm-profiler run: kworker/u8:1   
Write accesses at 57/600 in lm-profiler run: kworker/u8:0   
Write accesses at 62/600 in lm-profiler run: kworker/u8:0   
Write accesses at 66/600 in lm-profiler run: kworker/u8:1   
Write accesses at 71/600 in lm-profiler run: kworker/u8:1   
Write accesses at 75/600 in lm-profiler run: jbd2/sdb11-8 kworker/u8:1 
systemd-journal
Write accesses at 80/600 in lm-profiler run: kworker/u8:0   
Write accesses at 85/600 in lm-profiler run: kworker/u8:0   
Write accesses at 89/600 in lm-profiler run: jbd2/sdb11-8 kworker/u8:0  
Write accesses at 94/600 in lm-profiler run: jbd2/sdb11-8 kworker/u8:1  
Write accesses at 98/600 in lm-profiler run: jbd2/sdb11-8 kworker/u8:1  
Write accesses at 103/600 in lm-profiler run: jbd2/sdb11-8 kworker/u8:1 
Write accesses at 107/600 in lm-profiler run: jbd2/sdb11-8 kworker/u8:0 
Write accesses at 112/600 in lm-profiler run: jbd2/sdb11-8 kworker/u8:0 
Write accesses at 121/600 in lm-profiler run: jbd2/sdb11-8 kworker/u8:1 
Write accesses at 126/600 in lm-profiler run: jbd2/sdb11-8 kworker/u8:1 
Write accesses at 130/600 in lm-profiler run: jbd2/sdb11-8 kworker/u8:1 
Write accesses at 135/600 in lm-profiler run: jbd2/sdb11-8 kworker/u8:0 
Write accesses at 139/600 in lm-profiler run: jbd2/sdb11-8 kworker/u8:0 
Write accesses at 144/600 in lm-profiler run: jbd2/sdb11-8 kworker/u8:0 
Write accesses at 153/600 in lm-profiler run: jbd2/sdb11-8 kworker/u8:1 
Write accesses at 158/600 in lm-profiler run: jbd2/sdb11-8 kworker/u8:1 
Write accesses at 162/600 in lm-profiler run: jbd2/sdb11-8 kworker/u8:1 
Write accesses at 167/600 in lm-profiler run: jbd2/sdb11-8 kworker/u8:0 
Write accesses at 176/600 in lm-profiler run: jbd2/sdb11-8 kworker/u8:0 
Write accesses at 185/600 in lm-profiler run: kworker/u8:0  
Write accesses at 190/600 in lm-profiler run: kworker/u8:0  
Write accesses at 194/600 in lm-profiler run: kworker/u8:1  
Write accesses at 199/600 in lm-profiler run: kworker/u8:1  
Write accesses at 203/600 in lm-profiler run: kworker/u8:1  
Write accesses at 208/600 in lm-profiler run: kworker/u8:0  
Write accesses at 212/600 in lm-profiler run: kworker/u8:0  
Write accesses at 217/600 in lm-profiler run: kworker/u8:0  
Write accesses at 221/600 in lm-profiler run: jbd2/sdb11-8 kworker/u8:1 
Write accesses at 226/600 in lm-profiler run: jbd2/sdb11-8 kworker/u8:1 
Write accesses at 231/600 in lm-profiler run: jbd2/sdb11-8 kworker/u8:1 
Write accesses at 235/600 in lm-profiler run: jbd2/sdb11-8 kworker/u8:0 
Write accesses at 240/600 in lm-profiler run: jbd2/sdb11-8 kworker/u8:0 
Write accesses at 244/600 in lm-profiler run: jbd2/sdb11-8 kworker/u8:0 
Write accesses at 249/600 in lm-profiler run: jbd2/sdb11-8 kworker/u8:1 
Write accesses at 258/600 in lm-profiler run: jbd2/sdb11-8 kworker/u8:1 
Write accesses at 267/600 in lm-profiler run: jbd2/sdb11-8 kworker/u8:0 
Write accesses at 272/600 in lm-profiler run: jbd2/sdb11-8 kworker/u8:0 
Write accesses at 276/600 in lm-profiler run: jbd2/sdb11-8 kworker/u8:1 
Write accesses at 281/600 in lm-profiler run: jbd2/sdb11-8 kworker/u8:1 
Write accesses at 290/600 in lm-profiler run: jbd2/sdb11-8 kworker/u8:0 
Write accesses at 299/600 in lm-profiler run: kworker/u8:0  
Write accesses at 304/600 in lm-profiler run: kworker/u8:1  
Write accesses at 308/600 in lm-profiler run: kworker/u8:1  
Write accesses at 313/600 in lm-profiler run: kworker/u8:1  
Write acces

Re: equivalent of chkconfig

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 12:38:35 +0100, João M. S. Silva wrote:
>does it mean I'm not using systemd? I don't seem to have systemd 
>installed (Ubuntu 14.04.3 LTS).

AFAIK systemd is default for 15.04 and 15.10 only.

[root@moonstudio ~]# dpkg -s systemd | grep -A1 Installing
 Installing the systemd package will not switch your init system unless you
 boot with init=/bin/systemd or install systemd-sysv in addition.
[root@moonstudio ~]# ls -l /bin/systemd /sbin/upstart
ls: cannot access /sbin/upstart: No such file or directory
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 20 Aug 12 16:58 /bin/systemd -> /lib/systemd/systemd

FWIW even for 15.10 it's a hybrid, not a clean systemd.



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Re: equivalent of chkconfig

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 08:43:50 -0400, Luis Mondesi wrote:
>When you do a clean install of 15.10 you get the Full Systemd
>Experience ™ It's very awkward for the first 30 seconds or so, but one
>gets used to its quirks very fast. 
>
>Cannot really complaint about it. Just continue on...

Hi Luis,

I strongly disagree.

For my everyday production environment I run Arch Linux since February
2012 with a clean systemd.

This year in July I installed Wily from the server ISO on this
multi-boot machine. What I got wasn't a "Full Systemd Experience", but
a mess with init scripts and wrappers/workarounds.

Btw. I'm still not used to systemd after using it for around 3 years,
but for my workflow a clean systemd at least is easier to handle, than
the Wily hybrid.

You might get used to the Wily hybrid systemd within 30 seconds, you
also might get used to a clean systemd within 30 seconds, but Wily
definitively is a mix including init script and wrappers/workarounds and
absolutely _not_ a "Full Systemd Experience".

Regards,
Ralf

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Re: How to file a bug against an unknown package? - Was: Green hard disk drives

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 08:47:33 -0500, Jamie Strandboge wrote:
>On 08/14/2015 10:07 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>> On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 01:33:46 +0100, João M. S. Silva wrote:
>>> On 08/15/2015 01:12 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>>>> As already pointed out, the drive in question is _sdc_, not _sdb_ 
>>>
>>> What about kworker?
>> 
>> I wonder, if AppArmor or any of the other software I didn't chose to
>> install myself could be the culprit.
>> 
>It isn't going to be apparmor-- there isn't a long running daemons.
>The security policy is loaded into the kernel on boot/package
>upgrade/etc then after that the kernel enforces it.

Correct, I already removed a lot of packages and apparmor isn't the
culprit. Within the week I hopefully have time to check all services
and to remove other packages.

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Re: equivalent of chkconfig

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 15:56:34 +0200, Oliver Grawert wrote:
>hi,
>Am Montag, den 17.08.2015, 15:41 +0200 schrieb Ralf Mardorf:
>  
>> Btw. I'm still not used to systemd after using it for around 3 years,
>> but for my workflow a clean systemd at least is easier to handle,
>> than the Wily hybrid.
>> 
>> You might get used to the Wily hybrid systemd within 30 seconds, you
>> also might get used to a clean systemd within 30 seconds, but Wily
>> definitively is a mix including init script and wrappers/workarounds
>> and absolutely _not_ a "Full Systemd Experience".  
>
>it is an advertised (and desired) systemd upstream feature to provide
>sysvinit compatibility (like it was in upstart) ... there is nothing
>messy in it, upstream encourages to use this to allow packages that
>need a longer transition period to still work, so debian has it
>enabled (and ubuntu simply inherits it). you can use systemctl on
>these jobs the same way you can use it on native systemd units, so i
>dont get where you see any difference in maintenance.  

There's noting wrong with providing the shutdown command, but if
packages install "services" to different locations and as long as there
are wrappers such as "service" it's a mess.

Since you mention upstream, Ubuntu doesn't care much about upstream by
splitting packages. Assumed Ubuntu isn't a hybrid, then why splitting
udev and systemd? They are merged by upstream. For what reason is
a package for upstart still available?

Ubuntu's init process isn't transparent, it's a mess.

As long as systemd and udev are different packages, as long as upstart
is available, as long as the service wrapper is provided, as long as
etc. ... the transition likely will continue for years and systemd is
not going to be transparent.

However, it's off topic and we don't need to discuss it. The OP doesn't
use systemd.

Regards,
Ralf

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Re: equivalent of chkconfig

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 17:03:02 +0200, Oliver Grawert wrote:
>ubuntus upstream is debian in this case ...

... but systemd's upstream is _not_ Debian.

I already wrote:
>>it's off topic and we don't need to discuss it.

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Re: equivalent of chkconfig

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 17:32:42 +0200, Oliver Grawert wrote:
>unfounded FUD

What next?

Actually everything I pointed out is correct, it's not unfounded FUD.
Even you mentioned that not all services are ported over.

It's not that hard for me to make a profound comparison between an Arch
Linux install, that finished the transition 3 years ago and follows
systemd from upstream and an Ubuntu Wily install, since they are running
on the same machine and I'm using an upstream systemd with all services
ported.

You actually don't know what you are talking about, if you call Ubuntus
systemd implementation transparent. It's a mess, the transition is
_not_ finished, init related files are spread over different locations.

Such a _mess_ is unusual for Unix alike operating systems such as
FreeBSD, Linux etc., despite of the used init system and used
filesystem hierarchy standard.

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Re: equivalent of chkconfig

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 18:37:04 +0200, Oliver Grawert wrote:
>i havent called anything transparent, you have called "the boot process
>a mess" and pointed to pointless proof

I was speaking about transparency and I called the absence of
transparency a mess. Your claim is, that it isn't a mess, so the
conclusion in this context is, that you claim it's transparent, clear.

Please quote me were I mentioned the boot process. I could say
something about the boot process, but this would be more
off-topic. One keyword could be "race conditions", another keyword
perhaps "documentation".

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 18:22:52 +0200, Oliver Grawert wrote:
>as i understand it the introduction of systemctl was to overcome the
>fragmentation of managing services in different distros so that you
>dont have a debian way, and ubuntu way or a fedora way (i.e. chkconfig)
>anymore.

There is the filesystem hierarchy standard, but within this standard
Linux distros differ a lot. It's more important to know were the files
are, instead of having one command. As long as the files are human
readable files, dash or bash scripts and we know the locations, it's
not so hard to use different distros with different init systems.
Mixing systemd with init scripts, the issue with the locations
increases.

Btw. one of the few good features of systemd is systemd-nspawn, but
unfortunately I noticed that this sometimes fails.

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Re: equivalent of chkconfig

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 05:40:23 -0400, Tom H wrote:
>It's a bit messy, SOMETIMES.

Hi Tom,

I'm aware that it wasn't you who blamed me for spreading "unfounded
FUD", it was Oliver and at the same time he mentioned backwards
compatibility, inter-distro-compatibility, the feature that one command
does it all.

AFAIK Ubuntu's systemd implementation doesn't provide any of those
three advantages, it brakes all three advantages [1].

The wrapper-workaround-approach leads to misinformation [1].

The mess could be avoided without much work, e.g. for

http://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty/all/rtirq-init/filelist

The Ubuntu maintainer just needs to correct the location and add a
service file, but even if you would provide the service file and
corrected file locations for the maintainer, you can't contribute to
Ubuntu. It's recommended to get in contact with Debian maintainers.



[1]
For example:

Imagine you'll maintain your install, using a workflow that can be used
for a clean systemd install.

[weremouse@moonstudio ~]$ systemctl list-unit-files | grep alice
alice.service  enabled 
[weremouse@moonstudio ~]$ systemctl list-unit-files | grep rtirq
[weremouse@moonstudio ~]$



Looks like rtirq isn't enabled, but de facto it's enabled.

[weremouse@moonstudio ~]$ systemctl list-units | grep alice
alice.service
loaded active exitedAlice PPPoE
[weremouse@moonstudio ~]$ systemctl list-units | grep rtirq
rtirq.service
loaded active exitedLSB: Realtime IRQ thread tunning.
[weremouse@moonstudio ~]$ systemctl status alice | grep active Active:
active (exited) since Mon 2015-08-17 22:55:32 CEST; 13h ago
[weremouse@moonstudio ~]$ systemctl status rtirq | grep active Active:
active (exited) since Mon 2015-08-17 22:55:33 CEST; 13h ago



Regarding backwards compatibility, there is no backwards compatibility
when using the service wrapper.
Please correct me when I'm mistaken, didn't the service wrapper in the
past do the same as /etc/init.d/foo status does?

[weremouse@moonstudio ~]$ service rtirq status
● rtirq.service - LSB: Realtime IRQ thread tunning.
   Loaded: loaded (/etc/init.d/rtirq)
   Active: active (exited) since Mon 2015-08-17 22:55:33 CEST; 13h ago
 Docs: man:systemd-sysv-generator(8)

Warning: Journal has been rotated since unit was started. Log output is
incomplete or unavailable.

[weremouse@moonstudio ~]$ /etc/init.d/rtirq status

  PID CLS RTPRIO  NI PRI %CPU STAT COMMAND  
  385 FF  90   - 130  0.0 Sirq/18-snd_hdsp  
  387 FF  85   - 125  0.0 Sirq/20-snd_ice1  
  388 FF  84   - 124  0.0 Sirq/21-snd_ice1  
   35 FF  50   -  90  0.0 Sirq/9-acpi   
   60 FF  50   -  90  0.0 Sirq/19-ehci_hcd  
   61 FF  50   -  90  0.0 Sirq/16-ohci_hcd  
   62 FF  50   -  90  0.0 Sirq/17-ohci_hcd  
   63 FF  50   -  90  0.0 Sirq/18-ohci_hcd  
   64 FF  50   -  90  0.0 Sirq/17-ohci_hcd  
   66 FF  50   -  90  0.0 Sirq/18-ohci_hcd  
   67 FF  50   -  90  0.0 Sirq/1-i8042  
   68 FF  50   -  90  0.0 Sirq/8-rtc0   
  135 FF  50   -  90  0.0 Sirq/22-:00:  
  145 FF  50   -  90  0.0 Sirq/14-pata_ati  
  149 FF  50   -  90  0.0 Sirq/15-pata_ati  
  157 FF  50   -  90  0.0 Sirq/22-firewire  
  164 FF  50   -  90  0.0 Sirq/27-radeon
  275 FF  50   -  90  0.0 Sirq/7-parport0   
  786 FF  50   -  90  0.0 Sirq/26-enp3s0
3 TS   -   0  19  0.0 Sksoftirqd/0  
   17 TS   -   0  19  0.0 Sksoftirqd/1  

Regards,
Ralf

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Re: equivalent of chkconfig

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 05:52:20 -0400, Tom H wrote:
>On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 12:13 PM, Ralf Mardorf
> wrote:
>> On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 17:32:42 +0200, Oliver Grawert wrote:
>>>
>>> unfounded FUD
>>
>> What next?
>>
>> Actually everything I pointed out is correct, it's not unfounded FUD.
>> Even you mentioned that not all services are ported over.
>>
>> It's not that hard for me to make a profound comparison between an
>> Arch Linux install, that finished the transition 3 years ago and
>> follows systemd from upstream and an Ubuntu Wily install, since they
>> are running on the same machine and I'm using an upstream systemd
>> with all services ported.
>>
>> You actually don't know what you are talking about, if you call
>> Ubuntus systemd implementation transparent. It's a mess, the
>> transition is _not_ finished, init related files are spread over
>> different locations.
>
>You might have a point if systemd upstream didn't provide
>systemd-sysv-generator and systemd-sysv-install.
>
>Ubuntu and Debian are simply using upstream tools that allow for
>hybrid init systems.

As pointed out by previous mails.

The FHS still allows distros to put files to different locations,
e.g. Ubuntu's /etc/init.d/ could be /etc/rc.d/ or /usr/bin/ for other
distros.

So the well-known service-wrapper individually written for those
different distros made it easy to write scripts e.g. checking the
status.

Now Ubuntu does provide a wrapper, that assumed a script tries to check
the status, instead does provide what systemctl status provides.

1. systemctl status provides this kind of status information, so why
doing it by service too?
2. Now all old scripts usable with different distros using the
service wrapper can't be used with Ubuntu anymore.

This issue isn't caused by systemd upstream.

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Re: equivalent of chkconfig

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 12:36:17 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>Imagine you'll maintain your install, using a workflow that can be used
>for a clean systemd install.
>
>[weremouse@moonstudio ~]$ systemctl list-unit-files | grep alice
>alice.service  enabled 
>[weremouse@moonstudio ~]$ systemctl list-unit-files | grep rtirq
>[weremouse@moonstudio ~]$
>
>
>
>Looks like rtirq isn't enabled, but de facto it's enabled.
>
>[weremouse@moonstudio ~]$ systemctl list-units | grep alice
>alice.service
>loaded active exitedAlice PPPoE
>[weremouse@moonstudio ~]$ systemctl list-units | grep rtirq
>rtirq.service
>loaded active exitedLSB: Realtime IRQ thread tunning.
>[weremouse@moonstudio ~]$ systemctl status alice | grep active Active:
>active (exited) since Mon 2015-08-17 22:55:32 CEST; 13h ago
>[weremouse@moonstudio ~]$ systemctl status rtirq | grep active Active:
>active (exited) since Mon 2015-08-17 22:55:33 CEST; 13h ago

You might say, simply don't use "list-unit-files" and you might find one
workaround after the other, but then there's no compatibility among
different distros and the list of workarounds becomes longer and longer.

Let's say you'll maintain several installs by a script using
  sudo systemd-nspawn -qD /mnt/point systemctl foo
then you can't simply avoid using "list-unit-files".

[weremouse@moonstudio ~]$ sudo systemd-nspawn -qD /mnt/archlinux/
[sudo] password for weremouse: 
Failed to create directory /mnt/archlinux/sys/fs/selinux: Read-only file system
Failed to create directory /mnt/archlinux/sys/fs/selinux: Read-only file system
[root@archlinux ~]# systemctl list-units
Failed to get D-Bus connection: Operation not permitted
[root@archlinux ~]# systemctl status rtirq
Failed to get D-Bus connection: Operation not permitted
[root@archlinux ~]# systemctl list-unit-files | grep rtirq
rtirq.service  enabled 
[root@archlinux ~]# logout
[weremouse@moonstudio ~]$

Do you understand now why I call it a mess? Try to maintain Ubuntu from
another install by systemd-nspawn with scripts you use for other systemd
distros too.

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Re: Green hard disk drives

[Ralf Mardorf]

Update:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1484497/comments/4
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1484497/comments/5

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Re: Green hard disk drives

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Thu, 20 Aug 2015 00:40:55 +0100, João M. S. Silva wrote:
>Maybe you could help me clarify something from your experience: in my 
>case, since the disk I'm talking about is the system disk (root 
>partition) it is almost impossible to have it go to sleep, right?

I don't know.

Assumed that even an idle install needs to access some files, couldn't
it be done to files in tmpfs?

Is there some monitoring that wakes up root partitions?

I only want my external data drive to go to sleep.

Btw. I copied the config of an Arch Linux kernel and will build the same
kernel for my Wily install:

[root@archlinux rocketmouse]# t=10800;y=$(smartctl -A /dev/sdc|grep Lo|awk 
'{print $NF}');sleep $t;x=$(smartctl -A /dev/sdc|grep Lo|awk '{print 
$NF}');l=$(uname -r)_$(uname -m).$(printf $(cat /etc/issue));echo $l 
$x-$y=$((x-y)) spins in $(($t/60/60)) hours;zcat /proc/config.gz > 
/mnt/moonstudio/usr/src/config-$l
3.10.61-rt65-1-rt-lts_x86_64.Arch 15295-15294=1 spins in 3 hours

Only smartctl waked up the drive.

By running the same kernel release, build with the same config, I can rule
out the kernel being the culprit.

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Re: updates to libmtp9 in trusty

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Thu, 20 Aug 2015 13:32:30 -0400, David H. Durgee wrote:
>When will trusty be upgraded to the 1.1.10 release of the library so 
>that I can access my phone?

Ubuntu is a release model distro. Trusty is a long term support release.
Upgrades will happen, if there are valid reason, e.g. regarding security
issues. Upgrades to provide new features would risk to break stability,
something nobody wants and something that is completely against the
Ubuntu releases policy.

If other packages link against a dedicated version of a library, all
those packages need to be rebuild. If the new version of a library
depends on newer versions of other libraries, all those dependencies
needs to be rebuild and all packages that need a dedicated version of
any of those dependencies too.

You should expect updates only for very good reasons.

Assumed there aren't to much dependency issues, it's possible that you
build a package for the new lib on your own. It's also possible to
provide several versions of a lib, but then you are on your own too.

If there's no other reason than missing support for your phone, then
most likely there never will be an upgrade available by the official
Trusty repos.

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Errors when building a kernel

[Ralf Mardorf]

Hi,

I try to build a kernel for Wily, that is as close as possible to a
kernel I use for Arch Linux. The reason is, that for the Arch install
Green drives don't run berserk and I anyway need a 3.x-rt.

I ensured that a Green drive stays asleep and copied the Arch Linux
kernel config to my Ubuntu install:

[root@archlinux rocketmouse]# t=10800;y=$(smartctl -A /dev/sdc|grep Lo|awk 
'{print $NF}');sleep $t;x=$(smartctl -A /dev/sdc|grep Lo|awk '{print 
$NF}');l=$(uname -r)_$(uname -m).$(printf $(cat /etc/issue));echo $l 
$x-$y=$((x-y)) spins in $(($t/60/60)) hours;zcat /proc/config.gz > 
/mnt/moonstudio/usr/src/config-$l
3.10.61-rt65-1-rt-lts_x86_64.Arch 15295-15294=1 spins in 3 hours

The only spin was caused by waking up the drive when running systemctl.


Then I tried to build the kernel [1] for
Ubuntu Wily Werewolf(development branch):

I used the Arch Linux config and edited

CONFIG_LOCALVERSION "-1-rt-lts" to "-1-moonstudio"

Since building the kernel failed, I also edited

CONFIG_DRM_I915=m and CONFIG_DRM_I915_KMS=y to "is not set"
CONFIG_R8187SE=m to "is not set"
CONFIG_RTL8192E=m to "is not set"
CONFIG_R8712U=m to "is not set"
CONFIG_WLAGS49_H2 to "is not set"
CONFIG_WLAGS49_H25=m to "is not set"

now I run into an issue. Building MPILIB fails, but I don't know what to
do, to disable or to build it.

I already tried to disable it by editing

CONFIG_MPILIB=m to "# CONFIG_MPILIB is not set" and CONFIG_KEYS‏=y to "is not 
set"

but after running "make oldconfig" it's back to CONFIG_MPILIB=m.

I tried with "CONFIG_MPILIB=n" and "CONFIG_KEYS=y".

Unfortunately it could take 1.5 hours before the next error occurs.

Is there a faster way to verify what modules will fail to build, instead
of compiling the kernel?

Fortunately "grep MPILIB .config" helps with the current issue.
It's still "CONFIG_MPILIB=m" after running "make oldconfig". How can I
find out what settings I need to edit?

The Internet wasn't helpful :(.

[1]
[root@moonstudio src]# export CONCURRENCY_LEVEL=2;wget 
https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v3.x/linux-3.10.61.tar.gz 
https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/projects/rt/3.10/older/patch-3.10.61-rt65.patch.gz
 && tar zxf linux-3.10.61.tar.gz && mv linux-3.10.61 linux-3.10.61-rt65 && cd 
linux-3.10.61-rt65 && gzip -dc ../patch-3.10.61-rt65.patch.gz | patch -p1 && cp 
../config-3.10.61-rt65-1-rt-lts_x86_64.Arch .config && make oldconfig && make 
oldconfig && date && make-kpkg clean && make-kpkg --initrd kernel-image 
kernel-headers && make-kpkg clean && date

Regards,
Ralf

PS: Usually when building an Ubuntu kernel, I don't use an Arch Linux
config. I try to do it regarding

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1484497/comments/4
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1484497/comments/5

to ensure that it's not related to the kernel.

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Re: Errors when building a kernel

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 12:26:35 +0200, Oliver Grawert wrote:
>try https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile ...

I can't see were this link provides information regarding my questions.
I know how to build a kernel.

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Re: Errors when building a kernel

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 12:49:57 +0200, Oliver Grawert wrote:
>Am Freitag, den 21.08.2015, 12:39 +0200 schrieb Ralf Mardorf:
>> On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 12:26:35 +0200, Oliver Grawert wrote:
>> >try https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile ...
>> 
>> I can't see were this link provides information regarding my
>> questions. I know how to build a kernel.
>> 
>then i'm not sure what you try to achieve, i thought you wanted to
>build an ubuntu kernel based on a ubuntu config (which is assembled
>from multiple input files in the package as described on the page) with
>adjustments to match the arch kernel you have. 
>
>(not sure what inlformation a mainline kernel not using ubuntu patches
>or config would gain you here ...)

It's all explained in my request.

JFTR even if there wouldn't be the explained reason to build with the
Arch config, then building a vanilla rt-patched kernel from kernel.org
without Ubuntu patches still provides a kernel that is absolutely
optimised for audio productions. I'm building this kind of Rt patched
kernels for Debian and Ubuntu since years. Since Ubuntu doesn't provide
a full preempt rt no Ubuntu patch and no Ubuntu config can fit, let
alone that provided releases needs to be selected for audio production.
FWIW some users for sure want to build with localmodconfig.

However, I can repeat the explanation. The Ubuntu developers suspect
that green drives get woken up by the kernel. I suspect that this isn't
the case, so I will build a kernel I use on Arch Linux too, were green
drives stay asleep. I also run 4.x kernels on Arch, but since I anyway
need to build a 3.x-rt, because this isn't provided by Ubuntu, I
decided to build this kernel.

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Re: Errors when building a kernel

[Ralf Mardorf]

Thank you,

but building a kernel in general isn't a problem for me.

On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 12:30:44 +0100, Robie Basak wrote:
>Are you aware of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/MainlineBuilds? It
>should be trivial to try non-Ubuntu-modified kernels on Ubuntu as the
>kernel team build them for us. This will only help with Ubuntu patches
>though - you'll still have to deal with the config.

That's doesn't help.

This line ...

[root@moonstudio src]# export CONCURRENCY_LEVEL=2;wget
https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v3.x/linux-3.10.61.tar.gz
https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/projects/rt/3.10/older/patch-3.10.61-rt65.patch.gz
&& tar zxf linux-3.10.61.tar.gz && mv linux-3.10.61 linux-3.10.61-rt65
&& cd linux-3.10.61-rt65 && gzip -dc ../patch-3.10.61-rt65.patch.gz |
patch -p1 && cp ../config-3.10.61-rt65-1-rt-lts_x86_64.Arch .config &&
make oldconfig && make oldconfig && date && make-kpkg clean &&
make-kpkg --initrd kernel-image kernel-headers && make-kpkg clean &&
date

... does the job. FWIW I'm aware about fakeroot, but such details are
irrelevant regarding the problem. The problem is to fix the config.

1. - compiling takes > 1 hour, then an error appears
   - fixing an error usually is easy to do by disabling an option
 (module)
   - then you compile again > 1 hour to get and fix the next error

   I hope that there's a way to avoid this compiling-loop-procedure.

2. - if you have bad luck, as I currently have got, then simply fixing
 an issue by disabling an unneeded option (module) isn't that easy

I don't know what config settings "enable" CONFIG_MPILIB.

"CONFIG_MPILIB=n" and "CONFIG_KEYS=y"
or
"# CONFIG_MPILIB is not set"
or
"CONFIG_MPILIB is not set"

after running oldconfig becomes

CONFIG_MPILIB=m

there is the need to change other config settings.

Usually you get an error "foo" and then changing "CONFIG_FOO=m" or
"CONFIG_FOO=y" to "CONFIG_FOO is not set" does cause oldconfig to ask
you if it should be used or not, for CONFIG_MPILIB this doesn't work.

Usually I wouldn't use an Arch Linux kernel's config to compile the
same kernel for Ubuntu. I would start with an Ubuntu kernels config.
But in this case it's needed to get as close as possible to an Arch
Linux kernel's config, to test something.
   
Regards,
Ralf

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Re: Errors when building a kernel

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sat, 22 Aug 2015 05:08:03 -0400, Tom H wrote:
>Are you editing ".config" manually?

Yes ...

>if yes, why don't you use "make menuconfig" (or another config target)
>because there are dependencies that you can't account for when using
>vi/nano/emacs/whatever.

... OTOH if you get an error for /bar/staging/foo, you easily can find
CONFIG_FOO and "disable" it. If you use menuconfig instead it's not
that pleasant. Dependencies are seldom an issue (were never an issue,
IIRC I run into this issue for the first time).

>I run the rc kernels on my laptop and about a year decided to stop
>fiddling around with kernel configs so I use the Arch, Fedora, and
>Ubuntu configs in rotation for each rc series; and my kernels compile
>without a hitch.

I agree that "usually" there aren't issues, it's likely related to an
oldish kernel I try to build.

[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ uname -r
3.10.61-rt65-1-rt-lts

>(You're running "make oldconfig" twice in [1], not that it should
>really matter.)

It might be neurotic, but I like to verify, that really everything is
done after oldconfig run, that's why I run it a second time.

I already planed to use menuconfig next time, but I suspect it isn't
easy to find CONFIG_MPILIB.

I'm not sure if this will help when using menuconfig

http://ss-log.blogspot.de/
(at the bottom "GnuPG MPILIB", other links were less informatively)

it didn't help, when manually editing.


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Re: Errors when building a kernel

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sat, 22 Aug 2015 05:26:24 -0400, Tom H wrote:
>You seemed to imply in your first email that the above was failing
>(IIRC!). If the above's working, where's the problem?

This does work to build kernel packages, so I don't need howtos about
building kernels. I asked for help regarding the issues I experienced,
IOW I ask for tips for editing the config and to check if building
modules fails without compiling.

>> ... does the job. FWIW I'm aware about fakeroot, but such details are
>> irrelevant regarding the problem.
>
>IIRC, I've pointed out to you on debian-user@ and/or ubuntu-users@
>that compiling as root doesn't make any sense. So here goes for
>ubuntu-devel-discuss@! :)

Perhaps we discussed it more than once at Debian user, since once
fakeroot environments failed when building Debian kernel packages.
Fakeroot didn't fail for me, since I run my build scripts as root.

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Re: Errors when building a kernel

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sat, 22 Aug 2015 12:20:33 +0200, Oliver Grawert wrote:
>if you just want to know if an arch kernel wakes up your disk when
>running with ubuntu userspace you could as well just copy over the
>binaries from a running arch system.

Or just edit grub.cfg to mix the Arch kernel with the Ubuntu install,
this at least could be done with older grub releases. However, this is
not what I need, since this approach has got weak points.

>if you want to find an offending config option in an ubuntu kernel you
>should probably not switch all variables at the same time as the
>result will be pointless.

I haven't done this. As I pointed out, I compiled the kernel several
times and edited one CONFIG after the other, it solved the issue for
each config, one after the other, just the latest issue
with CONFIG_MPILIB isn't that easy to solve.

>there are upstream based kernel trees as well as mainline that have the
>right config setup for in their debian/rules on kernel.ubuntu.com, if
>you want to verify *anything* kernel side by changing a config setup
>you should do it with the right tree not with an upstream tarball
>where you obviously also edited the config by hand ...

>it is really hard to help you if you refuse to accept any help all the
>time

Perhaps you understand an analogy. Doing it that way would be like
measuring with a meter, that is powered by the same current source as
the circuit you'll measure. IOW I quasi try to archive "galvanic
isolation" from Ubuntu configs and Ubuntu/Debian rules, to build a
kernel for Ubuntu. This usually doesn't cause issues, neither for
vanilla, nor for vanilla rt patched kernels, from kernel.org. Now it
does cause an issue and I ask for help to do it that way. I know how to
do it in other ways. Perhaps you understand the "galvanic isolation"
analogy.

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Re: Errors when building a kernel

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sat, 22 Aug 2015 08:32:35 -0400, Tom H wrote:
>There's nothing difficult with "make menuconfig" because you can
>search for a specific config value with "/" except that you like to
>ask for help but never seem to like the advice that's given.

This is the first reply to help me with the issue ;).

So I can search for "CONFIG_MPILIB" and likely will find what options I
need to check and/or uncheck to get rid of it?

Thank you.



Send from the wrong account:

Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 15:06:15 +0200
From: Ralf
To: ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
Subject: Re: Errors when building a kernel


On Sat, 22 Aug 2015 14:10:01 +0200, Oliver Grawert wrote:
>hi,
>
>Am Samstag, den 22.08.2015, 13:21 +0200 schrieb Ralf Mardorf:
>
>> 
>> Perhaps you understand an analogy. Doing it that way would be like
>> measuring with a meter, that is powered by the same current source as
>> the circuit you'll measure. IOW I quasi try to archive "galvanic
>> isolation" from Ubuntu configs and Ubuntu/Debian rules, to build a
>> kernel for Ubuntu. This usually doesn't cause issues, neither for
>> vanilla, nor for vanilla rt patched kernels, from kernel.org. Now it
>> does cause an issue and I ask for help to do it that way. I know how
>> to do it in other ways. Perhaps you understand the "galvanic
>> isolation" analogy.
>> 
>let me answer with an analogy then ... say you want to measure security
>aspects of a set of tires on a specific car (grip, temperature etc).
>
>to compare these tires against another set, would you trust the values
>you get when you replace the brakes and engine of said car at the same
>time you replace the tires for your measurement or would you rather use
>the same car unmodified and only put on different rubber ?
>
>if you change all aspects at the same time you are effectively
>measuring two sets of tires on two different cars, the data you
>collect doesn't really tell anything about the quality of the tires in
>the end (except that you know they behave different on different cars).
>
>robie pointed you to a PPA that has mainline debs, did you check if
>your drives wake up when running these ? that would be a very simple
>thing to test even without the effort of building anything at all and
>could easily already point out if an ubuntu config or patch are at
>fault here. It would give you a very valuable data point to start from
>with your research and narrow down the possible aspects to inspect
>further.
>
>also note that an ubuntu kernel package is more than vmlinuz and
>modules ... there are configs and postinst scripts run at install time
>of the deb. given that make-kpkg is a debian tool that nobody in ubuntu
>uses for building kernel packages I wouldn't expect the resulting
>package to apply the right postinst/preinst config at all for example
>or set up /etc/kernel in the same way as an ubuntu built kernel package
>does ... sure, you might be lucky and the setup might be the same (I
>have no idea if anyone from the kernel team ever looked at make-kpkg
>settings to syncronize them with an actual ubuntu kernel package
>build), but why risk that if you can easily reduce the possible
>differences by just using the right tree in the documented way.
>
>ciao
>   oli
>
>

Removing modules from the config that anyway don't get loaded doesn't
matter, so your analogy doesn't fit, but my analogy perfectly fits,
since I try to avoid everything Ubuntu related. JFTR I only try to help
Ubuntu developers by pointing out that the issue _is not_ kernel
related. The problem is that tons of packages 1. are already installed
by a minimal install, even if the user doesn't want any of those
packages and 2. a lot of stuff is auto started, even if you don't want
it. IOW regarding the green drive issue I need to check all init
scripts, systemd units and desktop files and what ever else auto starts
things that a user didn't install or a user installed, but only want
to run on demand. Unfortunately the bug gets assigned against linux,
while I didn't filed it against any package.

To build the same kernel for audio usage and not for a bugtracker
report, I would use an Ubuntu config, edit real-time options and build
the kernel likely without running into that many incompatibilities.

In the end my intention is to help Ubuntu Studio developer once I was
able to set up a minimal Wily install. If you follow the Ubuntu Studio
mailing list, you'll see that for this flavour the Ubuntu policy could
be a show stopper, that's why I don't care that much about Ubuntu's
policy.

Instead of debate on principles, it would be useful if you could help
to troubleshoot.

De facto Wily will be released soon and it&#

Re: Errors when building a kernel

[Ralf Mardorf]

Tom's hint is useful, menuconfig's search option does the trick, I
seemingly got rid of MPILIB=m.

Thank you.

Regards,
Ralf

[1]
[root@moonstudio src]# export CONCURRENCY_LEVEL=2;wget 
https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v3.x/linux-3.10.61.tar.gz 
https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/projects/rt/3.10/older/patch-3.10.61-rt65.patch.gz
 && tar zxf linux-3.10.61.tar.gz && mv linux-3.10.61 linux-3.10.61-rt65 && cd 
linux-3.10.61-rt65 && gzip -dc ../patch-3.10.61-rt65.patch.gz | patch -p1 && cp 
../config-3.10.61-rt65-1-rt-lts_x86_64.Arch .config && make oldconfig && make 
menuconfig && make oldconfig && date && make-kpkg clean && make-kpkg --initrd 
kernel-image kernel-headers && make-kpkg clean && date
[...]

.config - Linux/x86 3.10.61 Kernel Configuration
 > Search (MPILIB) 
 > ──
  ┌─── Search Results 
┐
  │ Symbol: MPILIB_EXTRA [=MPILIB_EXTRA]
  │  
  │ Type  : unknown 
  │  
  │   Selected by: PUBLIC_KEY_ALGO_RSA [=m] && CRYPTO [=y] && 
ASYMMETRIC_KEY_TYPE [=m] && ASYMMETRIC_PUBLIC_KEY_SUBTYPE [ │  
  │ 
  │  
  │ 
  │  
  │ Symbol: MPILIB [=m] 
  │  
  │ Type  : tristate
  │  
  │   Defined at lib/Kconfig:380
  │  
  │   Selects: CLZ_TAB [=y] 
  │  
  │   Selected by: ASYMMETRIC_PUBLIC_KEY_SUBTYPE [=m] && CRYPTO [=y] && 
ASYMMETRIC_KEY_TYPE [=m] || SIGNATURE [=n] && KEY

[...]

CONFIG_ASYMMETRIC_PUBLIC_KEY_SUBTYPE:   
  │  
  │ 
  │  
  │ This option provides support for asymmetric public key type handling.   
  │  
  │ If signature generation and/or verification are to be used, 
  │  
  │ appropriate hash algorithms (such as SHA-1) must be available.  
  │  
  │ ENOPKG will be reported if the requisite algorithm is unavailable.  
  │  
  │ 
  │  
  │ Symbol: ASYMMETRIC_PUBLIC_KEY_SUBTYPE [=n]  
  │  
  │ Type  : tristate
  │  
  │ Prompt: Asymmetric public-key crypto algorithm subtype  
  │  
  │   Location: 
  │  
  │ -> Cryptographic API (CRYPTO [=y])  
  │  
  │   -> Asymmetric (public-key cryptographic) key type 
(ASYMMETRIC_KEY_TYPE [=m])│  
  │   Defined at crypto/asymmetric_keys/Kconfig:12  
  │  
  │   Depends on: CRYPTO [=y] && ASYMMETRIC_KEY_TYPE [=m]   
  │  
  │   Selects: MPILIB [=m]  
  │  
  │   Selected by: MODULE_SIG [=n] && MODULES [=y] || INTEGRITY_ASYMMETRIC_KEYS 
[=n] && INTEGRITY_SIGNATURE [=n]

[...]

Sat Aug 22 22:40:52 CEST 2015

I started compiling right now.

[root@moonstudio linux-3.10.61-rt65]# grep MPILIB .config
[root@moonstudio linux-3.10.61-rt65]#

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Re: Jump start help needed.

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sat, 22 Aug 2015 19:24:36 -0300, Martinx - ジェームズ wrote:
>Ubuntu have something very cool, for example, let say you want to have
>the "java" command, but you don't have it installed... Well, Ubuntu
>will tell you which package brings the "java" command if you type it
>at the console!  

The command-not-found package is available for other distros too, but
it doesn't help the OP to get the needed development packages for the
OP's projects. Depending to the OP's work-flow a distro that doesn't
split software from upstream into several packages might be more
comfortable.

Ubuntu and Debian split packages from upstream and not necessarily keep
the upstream name. The headers for software "foo" might be provided by
"libfoobar2-dev" and "libfoobar-plugins-dev".

There are distros that by default provide an environment for compiling
and building packages. Software from upstream isn't split, but
strictly follows the upstream names. IOW if a project needs headers of
software "foo", then only the package "foo" is needed, while for Ubuntu
and Debian there could be the need to be aware that the packages
"libfoobar2-dev" and "libfoobar-plugins-dev" are needed.

apt-get build-dep helps only to get build dependencies for provided
source packages.

Another thing to consider is, that assumed the OP want's to write
software for e.g. GNOME, a rolling release might be needed.

IMO the OP should read about Gentoo, Arch and the Debian Sid
and perhaps a few other distros.

Only the OP knows her/his work-flow and interested. Regarding work-flow
and interests distros provide different advantages and drawbacks.

Regards,
Ralf

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[solved] Errors when building a kernel

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sat, 22 Aug 2015 22:54:22 +0200, I wrote:
>Tom's hint is useful, menuconfig's search option does the trick, I
>seemingly got rid of MPILIB=m.
>
>Thank you.

Thank you Tom :)

I was able to build the kernel packages and the Wily install currently
runs the kernel successfully.

[weremouse@moonstudio ~]$ uname -a
Linux moonstudio 3.10.61-rt65-1-moonstudio #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Sun Aug 23
02:13:10 CEST 2015 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

In edition I needed to "disable"

CONFIG_MEGARAID
CONFIG_PCH_GBE

Building was done in around 1½ hours, from Sun Aug 23 02:00:09 to Sun
Aug 23 03:28:47 CEST 2015.

[weremouse@moonstudio ~]$ /etc/init.d/rtirq status

  PID CLS RTPRIO  NI PRI %CPU STAT COMMAND  
  441 FF  90   - 130  0.0 Sirq/18-snd_hdsp  
  547 FF  85   - 125  0.0 Sirq/20-snd_ice1  
  566 FF  84   - 124  0.0 Sirq/21-snd_ice1
[snip]


[weremouse@moonstudio src]$ grep CONFIG_X86
config-3.10.61-rt65-1-rt-lts_x86_64.Arch_Linux_original|head -n3
CONFIG_X86_64=y CONFIG_X86=y
CONFIG_X86_64_SMP=y

[weremouse@moonstudio src]$ grep
CONFIG_X86 /boot/config-3.10.61-rt65-1-moonstudio|head -n3
CONFIG_X86_64=y CONFIG_X86=y
CONFIG_X86_64_SMP=y


[weremouse@moonstudio src]$ diff
config-3.10.61-rt65-1-rt-lts_x86_64.Arch_Linux_original 
/boot/config-3.10.61-rt65-1-moonstudio
3c3 < # Linux/x86 3.10.61 Kernel Configuration
---
> # Linux/x86_64 3.10.61 Kernel Configuration
52c52
< CONFIG_LOCALVERSION="-1-rt-lts"
---
> CONFIG_LOCALVERSION="-1-moonstudio"
162c162
< CONFIG_CHECKPOINT_RESTORE=y
---
> # CONFIG_CHECKPOINT_RESTORE is not set
321d320
< CONFIG_ASN1=m
1734c1733
< CONFIG_SCSI_ADVANSYS=m
---
> # CONFIG_SCSI_ADVANSYS is not set
1738,1740c1737,1739
< CONFIG_MEGARAID_MAILBOX=m
< CONFIG_MEGARAID_LEGACY=m
< CONFIG_MEGARAID_SAS=m
---
> # CONFIG_MEGARAID_MAILBOX is not set
> # CONFIG_MEGARAID_LEGACY is not set
> # CONFIG_MEGARAID_SAS is not set
2179c2178
< CONFIG_PCH_GBE=m
---
> # CONFIG_PCH_GBE is not set
4116,4117c4115
< CONFIG_DRM_I915=m
< CONFIG_DRM_I915_KMS=y
---
> # CONFIG_DRM_I915 is not set
5186c5184
< CONFIG_R8187SE=m
---
> # CONFIG_R8187SE is not set
5192,5193c5190,5191
< CONFIG_RTL8192E=m
< CONFIG_R8712U=m
---
> # CONFIG_RTL8192E is not set
> # CONFIG_R8712U is not set
5207,5208c5205,5206
< CONFIG_WLAGS49_H2=m
< CONFIG_WLAGS49_H25=m
---
> # CONFIG_WLAGS49_H2 is not set
> # CONFIG_WLAGS49_H25 is not set
6040,6042c6038
< CONFIG_ASYMMETRIC_PUBLIC_KEY_SUBTYPE=m
< CONFIG_PUBLIC_KEY_ALGO_RSA=m
< CONFIG_X509_CERTIFICATE_PARSER=m
---
> # CONFIG_ASYMMETRIC_PUBLIC_KEY_SUBTYPE is not set
6125d6120
< CONFIG_CLZ_TAB=y
6128d6122
< CONFIG_MPILIB=m



Build with

[root@moonstudio src]# export CONCURRENCY_LEVEL=2;wget
https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v3.x/linux-3.10.61.tar.gz
https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/projects/rt/3.10/older/patch-3.10.61-rt65.patch.gz
&& tar zxf linux-3.10.61.tar.gz
&& mv linux-3.10.61 linux-3.10.61-rt65
&& cd linux-3.10.61-rt65 && gzip -dc ../patch-3.10.61-rt65.patch.gz | patch -p1
&& cp ../config-3.10.61-rt65-1-rt-lts.01.edit .config
&& make oldconfig && make menuconfig && make oldconfig
&& date
&& make-kpkg clean && make-kpkg --initrd kernel-image kernel-headers && 
make-kpkg clean
&& date



Regards,
Ralf

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Re: Green hard disk drives

[Ralf Mardorf]

Update:

1.

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1484497/comments/6

2.

Running ps aux I found  /usr/sbin/smartd -n.

[weremouse@moonstudio ~]$ man smartd
  [snip] smartd  will  attempt  to enable SMART monitoring on ATA
  devices (equivalent to smartctl -s on) and polls these and SCSI
  devices every 30 minutes (configurable) [snip]

My Arch Linux doesn't run smartd. I don't remember if it already was
installed when the issue appeared for the Wily install or if I installed
it after I noticed the issue. It might not be the original culprit, but
seemingly is at least one culprit.

I started a test a few minutes ago.

Regards,
Ralf


Further information:

[root@moonstudio weremouse]# ps aux | grep smart
root   879  0.2  0.0  25240  2760 ?Ss   14:55   0:00 
/usr/sbin/smartd -n
[snip]


[root@moonstudio weremouse]# systemctl -l status smartmontools.service
● smartd.service - Self Monitoring and Reporting Technology (SMART) Daemon
   Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/smartd.service; enabled; vendor preset: 
enabled)
   Active: active (running) since Mon 2015-08-24 14:55:29 CEST; 47s ago
 Docs: man:smartd(8)
   man:smartd.conf(5)
 Main PID: 879 (smartd)
   CGroup: /system.slice/smartd.service
   └─879 /usr/sbin/smartd -n
[snip]
Aug 24 14:55:32 moonstudio smartd[879]: Device: /dev/sda [SAT], state written 
to /var/lib/smartmontools/smartd.SAMSUNG_HD321KJ-S0MQJ9AQ308387.ata.state
Aug 24 14:55:32 moonstudio smartd[879]: Device: /dev/sdb [SAT], state written 
to /var/lib/smartmontools/smartd.SAMSUNG_HD502HJ-S26EJ9FZ100925.ata.state
Aug 24 14:55:32 moonstudio smartd[879]: Device: /dev/sdc [SAT], state written 
to /var/lib/smartmontools/smartd.WDC_WD20EZRX_00DC0B0-WD_WMC300753067.ata.state


[root@moonstudio weremouse]# systemctl -l status smartd.service
● smartd.service - Self Monitoring and Reporting Technology (SMART) Daemon
   Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/smartd.service; enabled; vendor preset: 
enabled)
   Active: active (running) since Mon 2015-08-24 14:55:29 CEST; 58s ago
 Docs: man:smartd(8)
   man:smartd.conf(5)
 Main PID: 879 (smartd)
   CGroup: /system.slice/smartd.service
   └─879 /usr/sbin/smartd -n
[snip]
Aug 24 14:55:32 moonstudio smartd[879]: Device: /dev/sda [SAT], state written 
to /var/lib/smartmontools/smartd.SAMSUNG_HD321KJ-S0MQJ9AQ308387.ata.state
Aug 24 14:55:32 moonstudio smartd[879]: Device: /dev/sdb [SAT], state written 
to /var/lib/smartmontools/smartd.SAMSUNG_HD502HJ-S26EJ9FZ100925.ata.state
Aug 24 14:55:32 moonstudio smartd[879]: Device: /dev/sdc [SAT], state written 
to /var/lib/smartmontools/smartd.WDC_WD20EZRX_00DC0B0-WD_WMC300753067.ata.state


[root@moonstudio weremouse]# systemctl stop smartmontools.service 
[root@moonstudio weremouse]# systemctl stop smartd.service
[root@moonstudio weremouse]# systemctl disable smartmontools.service
Synchronizing state of smartmontools.service with SysV init with 
/lib/systemd/systemd-sysv-install...
Executing /lib/systemd/systemd-sysv-install disable smartmontools
insserv: warning: current start runlevel(s) (empty) of script `smartmontools' 
overrides LSB defaults (2 3 4 5).
insserv: warning: current stop runlevel(s) (1 2 3 4 5) of script 
`smartmontools' overrides LSB defaults (1).


[root@moonstudio weremouse]# systemctl disable smartd.service
Removed symlink /etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/smartd.service.


[root@moonstudio weremouse]# ps aux | grep smart
root  1314  0.0  0.0   8208   936 pts/0S+   14:58   0:00 grep 
--color=auto smart


The test that is running:

[root@moonstudio weremouse]# echo;date;t=10800;y=$(smartctl -A /dev/sdc|grep 
Lo|awk '{print $NF}');sleep $t;x=$(smartctl -A /dev/sdc|grep Lo|awk '{print 
$NF}');printf "\n$(uname -rm)$(lsb_release -d|cut -f2 -d:|cut -f1 
-d"(")\n$x-$y=$((x-y)) spins in $(($t/60/60)) hours\n\n";date

Mon Aug 24 15:00:50 CEST 2015

To be continued...

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[solved] Green hard disk drives

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 08:59:37 -0700, Michael Loftis wrote:
>On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 6:30 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>> To be continued...
>Smartd documents -n by itself as no-fork (normal for systemd/upstarted
>stuff) but you also need to configure nocheck whichconfusingly is
>documented as -n  -- man smartd for more on possible
> values.I do not know if the manual is inaccurate as I
>have NOT checked, just RTFMed.  There's also a configuration option
>for how many checks it can miss before waking a drive.
>
>I'm not sure that the default should be to add powermode stuff.  You
>might be able to add it even with a dpkg-reconfigure, I've literally
>done no further investigation as to the option, setting it etc.

"Ralf Mardorf (ralf-mardorf-j) wrote 7 minutes ago: #7

It's questionable if it should be considered a bug or not. The culprit
is smartd. Ironically I used the package smartmontools 6.3+svn4002-2 to
get smartctl, for testing if something wakes up a green drive. Despite
the policy to autostart everything by default, that can be autostarted
for better or worse, it's to consider if the default configuration, to
poll every 30 minutes, is a wise decision. By an EU Regulation all
external hard disk drives are forced to spin down and go to sleep after
a while. I disabled smartd.service, any unneeded service is unwanted on
my machine.

After disabling it, nothing does wake up a green drive anymore.

[root@moonstudio weremouse]# echo;date;t=10800;y=$(smartctl
-A /dev/sdc|grep Lo|awk '{print $NF}');sleep $t;x=$(smartctl
-A /dev/sdc|grep Lo|awk '{print $NF}');printf "\n$(uname
-rm)$(lsb_release -d|cut -f2 -d:|cut -f1 -d"(")\n$x-$y=$((x-y)) spins
in $(($t/60/60)) hours\n\n";date

Mon Aug 24 15:00:50 CEST 2015

3.10.61-rt65-1-moonstudio x86_64 Ubuntu Wily Werewolf
15377-15376=1 spins in 3 hours

Mon Aug 24 18:00:56 CEST 2015

The only spin is caused by smartctl, when it was executed on demand, to
finish the test.

How I noticed that smartd is the culprit:
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2015-August/015782.html

A note regarding smartd:
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2015-August/015784.html

affects:linux (Ubuntu) → smartmontools (Ubuntu)" -
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/smartmontools/+bug/1484497



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Re: [solved] Green hard disk drives

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Tue, 25 Aug 2015 00:28:37 +0100, TJ wrote:
>I've followed the issue with interest. Glad you finally identified the
>cause.
>
>I wonder if smartd ought to be taught to check the power/sleep state
>of a device and only query it if it is currently awake/active?

I don't know if this is possible and assumed it should be possible,
then perhaps it's already provided by an option. For me there's
no need to read the entire man page, because I don't want to use
smartd. Maybe excluding drives from polls is possible.

It at least is possible to configure the interval.

"-i N, --interval=N
  Sets the interval between disk checks to N seconds, where N is a
  decimal integer.  The minimum allowed value is ten and the maximum is
  the largest positive integer  that  can  be represented on  your
  system  (often 2^31-1).  The default is 1800 seconds." - man smartd

1800 seconds / 60 = 30 minutes

IMO this is a valid default interval, if a distro not automatically
enables smartd, when installing the smartmontools package.

Perhaps Ubuntu should consider to increase the default value to

60 seconds * 60 * 24 = 86400 seconds, aka 1 time/day.

OTOH Ubuntu flavours such as Xubuntu by default likely install GVFS or
similar, resp. Kubuntu the KDEs equivalent to GVFS, Lubuntu likely
installs lxpanel with the version of libfm that doesn't provide the fix
to not wake up drives. IOW the myth that Green drives from Western
Digital are buggy won't die out, because a lot of software depends on
buggy software that actually kills the drives. [2]

Btw. I'm glad that it is a 30 minutes interval, so I noticed that an
unwanted service was enabled.

IMO Ubuntu should consider to ask the user to enable or disable
services, when installing a package.

When installing a sound server that by default _requires_ realtime
permissions, the user get's asked [1]. By an option it is possible to
run jackd without realtime permissions, but doing this when using
jackd makes no sense. Actually there's no reason to install jackd
without enabling realtime permissions.

If a service _is not required_ to use software provided by the package,
then why not ask the user if the service should be enabled? Installing
smartmontools without enabling smartd makes sense.

Regards,
Ralf


[1]
# sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install --no-install-recommends
jackd2 libjack-jackd2-dev
[snip]
"If you want to run jackd with realtime priorities, the user starting
jackd needs realtime permissions. Accept this option to create the
file /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf, granting realtime priority and
memlock privileges to the  audio group.

Running jackd with realtime priority minimizes latency, but may lead to
complete system lock-ups by requesting all the available physical
system memory, which is unacceptable in multi-user environments.

Enable realtime process priority?

   "

Too funny, there's no information that the users are not automatically
add to the group audio and that /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf is
different to the defaults recommended by upstream.


[2]
It's a big problem. Upstream usually isn't willing to care about the
green drive issue.

That lxpanel upstream, resp. libfm upstream was interested in the issue
and fixed the bug is an exception. At least GVFS isn't a hard
dependency for Thunar, but for the Mate, Cinnamon and GNOME file
managers it's a hard dependency. If you build and install an empty dummy
package that fakes to provide GVFS, the Mate, Cinnamon and GNOME file
managers still work without issues, without recompiling them.
SpaceFM does use udisks2, the user needs to disable a few SpaceFM
settings, but can keep udisks2. Rodent doesn't need any changes.
SpaceFM and Rodent provide mounting by mouse click without the need to
wake up green drives. If I launch K3b or the KDE archive manager, I
need to reboot to get rid of the KDE's green drive killer, but at least
they are inactive as long as the apps didn't run, while GVFS kills
drives as soon as it is installed.

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Re: [solved] Green hard disk drives

[Ralf Mardorf]

PS:

Don't get me wrong.

jackd does not wake up green drives, I only mentioned it to demonstrate
that by installing a package, it possible to interact with the user.

I don't have all those gnomeish file managers installed for my Wily
install, neither K3b and the KDE archive manager are installed, I tested
them with other *buntus/Debian/Suse/Arch.

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Information about Debian/Ubuntu patches add to packages

[Ralf Mardorf]

Hi,

if you build libfm based on "apt-get source libfm" you'll get 15
packages. A while back I build version 1.2.3.58.g47d0c1dd7d, IOW from
git. [1]

For testing purpose I installed the packages from the official
repositories. Excluded are the dbg, doc and dev packages, the remaining
packages are installed. [2]

The reason I build from git is this one:

"Eliminate usage of GVolumeMonitor if no FmFolder object was created.

If libfm is used without FmFolder usage then there is no reason to run
the volume monitor. Therefore it should be activated when some folder
was opened and deactivated when all of them were closed.
This may be a culprit of external green drives been waked up (see the
http://sourceforge.net/p/lxde/bugs/751/ bugreport against lxpanel)." [3]

If you read the lxde bug link, you'll notice, it definitively was the
culprit. Now something strange happens, the Ubuntu Wily version that
claims to be the upstream release [4], IOW a version before the bug was
fixed, does not cause lxpanel to wake up the same external green
drive. Seemingly libfm and/or lxpanel [5] can't be the upstream release.

I don't care much about this package, but wish to know, if there is
a file or webpage that mentions all Debian/Ubuntu patches included to a
package, with a short explanation what those patches are for,
including hints to perhaps disabled config options. A file that is part
of each installed package or a website for the packages.

I want to be informed about other packages, e.g. jackd2, qtractor,
openbox and many more, but indeed, now I also want information about
the libfm packages.

Regards,
Ralf


[1]
$ echo $(ls *.deb|cut -f1 -d_)
libfm4 libfm-data libfm-dbg libfm-dev libfm-doc libfm-extra4 libfm-gtk4
libfm-gtk-data libfm-gtk-dbg libfm-gtk-dev libfm-modules
libfm-modules-dbg libfm-tools lxshortcut lxshortcut-dbg

[2]
$ dpkg -l $(ls *.deb|cut -f1 -d_)
Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
| Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWa[snip]
|/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
||/ Name  Version   Architecture  [snip]
+++-=-=-=-
ii  libfm-data1.2.3-0ubuntu1all   [snip]
ii  libfm-extra4  1.2.3-0ubuntu1amd64 [snip]
ii  libfm-gtk-data1.2.3-0ubuntu1all   [snip]
ii  libfm-gtk41.2.3-0ubuntu1amd64 [snip]
ii  libfm-modules 1.2.3-0ubuntu1amd64 [snip]
ii  libfm-tools   1.2.3-0ubuntu1amd64 [snip]
ii  libfm41.2.3-0ubuntu1amd64 [snip]
ii  lxshortcut1.2.3-0ubuntu1amd64 [snip]
dpkg-query: no packages found matching libfm-dbg
dpkg-query: no packages found matching libfm-dev
dpkg-query: no packages found matching libfm-doc
dpkg-query: no packages found matching libfm-gtk-dbg
dpkg-query: no packages found matching libfm-gtk-dev
dpkg-query: no packages found matching libfm-modules-dbg
dpkg-query: no packages found matching lxshortcut-dbg

[3]
https://github.com/lxde/libfm/commit/994a1e25ba0c3da80575fc002af17ab02ed5998b

[4]
$ zcat /usr/share/doc/libfm4/changelog.Debian.gz|head
libfm (1.2.3-0ubuntu1) utopic; urgency=medium

  * New upstream release.
  * debian/patches:
   - 02-disable-Werror.patch: Refreshed.

 -- Julien Lavergne   Thu, 16 Oct 2014 07:27:48 +0200

libfm (1.2.2.1-3ubuntu1) utopic; urgency=medium

[5]
$ dpkg -l lxpanel lxpanel-data
Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
| Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWa[snip]
|/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
||/ Name  Version   Architecture  [snip]
+++-=-=-=-
ii  lxpanel   0.8.1-1ubuntu1amd64 [snip]
ii  lxpanel-data  0.8.1-1ubuntu1all   [snip]

$ zcat /usr/share/doc/lxpanel/changelog.Debian.gz|head -n25
lxpanel (0.8.1-1ubuntu1) wily; urgency=medium

  * Merge with Debian. Ubuntu remaining changes:
  * debian/control:
   - Add libindicator-dev build-depends.
   - Add a recommend on xterm | pavucontrol | gnome-alsamixer to enable
the mixer on the sound applet. (LP: #957749).
   - Add build-depends on libicu-dev for weather plugin.
   - Update Replaces and Breaks (LP: #1417244).
  * debian/local/source_lxpanel.py:
   - Add apport hook.
  * debian/lxpanel.install:
   - Install all plugins except indicators.
   - Install apport hook.
  * debian/lxpanel-indicator-applet-plugin.install:
   - Install indicator plugin.
  * debian/rules:
   - Add --enable-indicator-support flag.
   - Add dh_install --fail-missing.
   - Re-enable dh_makeshlibs, FTBFS with
lxpanel-indicator-applet-plugin. 
  * debian/patc

Re: Information about Debian/Ubuntu patches add to packages

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Wed, 26 Aug 2015 11:02:38 +0100, Robie Basak wrote:
>http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep3/

Thank you,

this way it at least is easier to search.

For example:

https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/libfm
|
|-https://sources.debian.net/src/libfm/1.2.3-1/debian/patches/
|-http://patches.ubuntu.com/libf/libfm/libfm_1.2.3-0ubuntu1.patch
|-https://sources.debian.net/src/libfm/1.2.3-1/debian/rules/
| |
| |-dh_auto_configure -- --enable-debug --enable-gtk-doc
|--enable-udisks --disable-silent-rules
|
|-https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libfm

Ok, no udisks package is installed for my Wily install, while for my
Arch install udisks 1.0.5 and udisks2 2.1.6 are installed (not
explicitly for libfm).
Perhaps the Ubuntu libfm would behave as expected, as soon as udisks is
installed. However, it will not be installed when installing
recommended and suggested packages.

tracker.debian.org is also useful to search bug reports, without
directly visiting the Ubuntu bug tracker.

https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/synaptic
|
|-https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/synaptic
  |
  |-https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/synaptic/0.81.4build1
|

|-https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/synaptic/+bugs?orderby=-id&start=0

Regards,
Ralf



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Re: Ubuntu Server : Installation process

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Thu, 10 Sep 2015 12:12:40 +0900, Alberto Lepe wrote:
>1) COLLECT INFO BEFORE INSTALL: It could be great if all questions are
>asked as soon as possible so you can leave the installation unattended
>until it finished.

Why, because you don't have that much time, to install a minimalist
server install? If you make a minimal install first, it doesn't take
much time. Then boot, run apt-get and most packages you will install by
your list will install automatically, just a few need interaction, but
there likely is an apt-get option to automatically continue the install
and to set up manually later. Perhaps --assume-no does the job.

>2) BROKEN INSTALL: Some days ago, I was installing a server and close
>to the end the ethernet cable got loose (I didn't noticed that).

I installed from the server image without internet access, IOW you
don't need internet access.

>Having a "recovery menu" will help to decide what kind of tools to
>download or load from CD. For example if you just want to reset your
>password, you really don't need to load a bunch of packages. If you
>want to repair disks, it would be nice to have "fdisk, cfdisk, sfdisk,
>btrf tools, parted, mdadm, lvm, etc" available. If you want to fix
>boot problems, then be sure all required grub/lilo packages are
>available, and so on.

You will repair a broken minimalist install, instead of reinstalling it?
Apart from this, at least the server image for Wily seems to provide at
least some, if not all the mentioned packages.

I suspect you didn't use the server image, but some minimal netinstall
image. So you likely could solve those issues by using another image.

Regards,
Ralf





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Re: Getting ubuntu iso securely

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 08:39:00 -0700, Ryein Goddard wrote:
>Probably a good idea to have something on the site reminding users to
>verify the download.  Especially something as important as the
>operating system.

Several times I put this issue in on *buntu mailing lists.

Even if the download buttons would link to the download site with the
signed checksums, instead of just downloading the image, while
automatically https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VerifyIsoHowto would
pop up too, then how do you expect that averaged users should get a key
they trust, that can be used to verify ownership of a key that claims
to be owned by Ubuntu?

It's a well-meant idea, but Rune Schjellerup Philosof, Rajeev Bhatta
and Ryein Goddard please be honest, how time consuming was it for you
to get a key you trust, that can be used to verify ownership of the
public Ubuntu key?

Do you expect that an averaged user who automatically needs to get
signed checksums provided by pushing a button, instead of visiting the
download site on her/his own, would like to go through the hassle that
comes with the web of trust?

Regards,
Ralf

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Re: Getting ubuntu iso securely

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 16:19:36 + (UTC), rajeev bhatta wrote:
>It is not time consuming.. just for the user experience..

Hi, 

IMHO for averaged users it is time consuming. Even a power users not
necessarily deals with the right people to get a key she or he can
trust, that can be used to verify ownership of the particular
public Ubuntu key.

I am a Linux power user and I don't own a key to verify the particular
public key, that belongs to the key, that was used to sign the Ubuntu
images.

Please let me know, how I can get such a key, without spending much
time ;).

Regards,
Ralf

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Re: GRSecurity Closes Stable Patch of Linux Kernel, Your opinion?

[Ralf Mardorf]

Hi,

there were already discussions about violations of the GPL on Linux
audio lists, but I have forgotten if it's allowed to provide the source
to customers only. IMO it doesn't matter what's allowed and what isn't
allowed, there's an ethical commitment to keep source code open. Another
issue is that companies might be unfair, common sense for civilised
societies is, that if somebody is unfair or criminal, this still isn't
a reason to become unfair or criminal too. It's not a daisy chain,
"somebody has stolen my toy, so I'll steal the toys of other children",
kindergarten teacher don't allow such a behaviour.

"The test series, unfit in our view for production use, will however
continue to be available to the public to avoid impact to the Gentoo
Hardened and Arch Linux communities."

In other words, the Linux community is still good enough to provide the
base code and unpaid testers.

However, I'm not surprised, social intercourse affecting refugees
becomes more and more uncivilised with every hour, so I don't expect
that intellectual property will be shared in a civilised manner.
Humanes are degenerated, at least uncivilised, if they care more about a
killed lion, than about other humans and sharing unexceptional
everything.

2 Cents,
Ralf

PS: I'm an Arch Linux user, but there's no mailing list for such
discussions. I also doubt that this list is the right place to discus
it. One list for such discussions is
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic.

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Re: Getting ubuntu iso securely

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 15:07:02 -0700, Ryein Goddard wrote:
>On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 10:32 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 16:19:36 + (UTC), rajeev bhatta wrote:
>> >It is not time consuming.. just for the user experience..
>>
>> IMHO for averaged users it is time consuming. Even a power users not
>> necessarily deals with the right people to get a key she or he can
>> trust, that can be used to verify ownership of the particular
>> public Ubuntu key.
>>
>> I am a Linux power user and I don't own a key to verify the
>> particular public key, that belongs to the key, that was used to
>> sign the Ubuntu images.
>>
>> Please let me know, how I can get such a key, without spending much
>> time ;).
>
>If a current method doesn't exist then maybe we can just create one?

How will you make it less time consuming?

You need to meet other people in the real world, in addition you
need to know and trust those people and in addition they need to trust a
chain of trusted keys, that confirms ownership of the public Ubuntu key
in question. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_of_trust

This already is hard to realise for hardcore computer geeks and
completely illusorily for those who's centre of life isn't the
operating system of their computers or digital security.

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Re: Getting ubuntu iso securely

[Ralf Mardorf]

Even an Windows user could use the checksums as described by
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VerifyIsoHowto using any Linux live
media.

A chicken-and-egg problem will stay, as long as the user doesn't own
trusted keys to verify ownership of the Ubuntu key, that was used to
sign the image's checksum.

Assumed you trust the download source and that there were no attacks
during the download and you only want to verify, if there were no
damages regarding technically issues, than the checksum still is useful.

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Re: Please implement Click-lock

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 02:18:04 +0200, Markus M. wrote:
>There are quite a lot of similar solutions, but none does exactly what
>Windows Click-lock does and there's no other good way, nobody on QA
>sites seemed to be satisfied with these, including myself. As this is
>to simplify input, especially for those who need accessibility
>features, the current solutions are too hard to use.

You can not use Windows environment tools to control your Linux
environment. What exactly does Click-lock that you need? A short web
research shows that it seems to be a tool to select items in a file
manager.

For Linux we usually do this with the Shift-key or the Ctrl-key
depending on what exactly we want select, in combination with the mouse
button. If you should be handicapped you might be unable to push a
keyboard key and a mouse key at the same time.

We need to know what exactly you want to do and what handicap you've
got. We also need to know which Linux alternatives didn't satisfy you.

Selecting items by command line using wild cards and/or regular
expressions isn't an option?

Regards,
Ralf

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Re: Please implement Click-lock

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 10:03:44 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>For Linux we usually do this with the Shift-key or the Ctrl-key
>depending on what exactly we want select, in combination with the mouse
>button.  

My apologies, I meant that we push one of those keys and move the
mouse, there's no need to push a mouse button.

>If you should be handicapped you might be unable to push a
>keyboard key and   

to move the mouse at the same time.

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Re: Please implement Click-lock

[Ralf Mardorf]

I noticed that the smart keyboard-key selection works with spacefm, but
not with rodent, but rodent provides a GUI in combination with
selecting by wild cards.

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qt5ct for Wily

[Ralf Mardorf]

Hi,

does somebody know a link that introduces how to build qt5 applications
for Wily?

My Internet connection is very slow at the moment, so web research is
very hard to do.

Btw. is http://packages.ubuntu.com/ relatively often down at the
moment? Often I cannot reach it, while my Interconnection seems to be ok.

I successfully build Qjackctl from git with Qt5, just building the
package failed, resp. it's incomplete, but QjackCtl runs.

Now I try to build qt5ct.


[weremouse@moonstudio qt5ct-0.17]$ qtchooser -qt=5 -run-tool=qmake 
PREFIX=/usr/local 
Project MESSAGE: Found lrelease executable: 
/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/qt5/bin/lrelease
Project MESSAGE: generating translations
Updating './src/qt5ct/translations/qt5ct_[snip]
Project MESSAGE: PREFIX=/usr/local
Project MESSAGE: BINDIR=/usr/local/bin
Project MESSAGE: DATADIR=/usr/local/share
Project MESSAGE: PLUGINDIR=/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/qt5/plugins/platformthemes


[weremouse@moonstudio qt5ct-0.17]$ make
cd src/qt5ct-qtplugin/ && ( test -e Makefile || 
/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/qt5/bin/qmake 
/usr/src/qt5ct-0.17/src/qt5ct-qtplugin/qt5ct-qtplugin.pro PREFIX=/usr/local -o 
Makefile ) && make -f Makefile 
make[1]: Entering directory '/usr/src/qt5ct-0.17/src/qt5ct-qtplugin'
g++ -c -m64 -pipe -O2 -Wall -W -D_REENTRANT -fPIC 
-DQT5CT_DATADIR=\"/usr/local/share\" -DQT_NO_DEBUG -DQT_PLUGIN -DQT_GUI_LIB 
-DQT_CORE_LIB -DQT_SHARED -I../../../../share/qt4/mkspecs/linux-g++-64 -I. 
-I../../../../include/qt4/QtCore -I../../../../include/qt4/QtGui 
-I../../../../include/qt4 -I.. -I.build/moc -o .build/obj/main.o main.cpp
main.cpp:29:38: fatal error: qpa/qplatformthemeplugin.h: No such file or 
directory
compilation terminated.
Makefile:234: recipe for target '.build/obj/main.o' failed
make[1]: *** [.build/obj/main.o] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory '/usr/src/qt5ct-0.17/src/qt5ct-qtplugin'
Makefile:43: recipe for target 'sub-src-qt5ct-qtplugin-make_first' failed
make: *** [sub-src-qt5ct-qtplugin-make_first] Error 2


[weremouse@moonstudio qt5ct-0.17]$ ls -hAl 
/usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/qt5/QtGui/5.4.2/QtGui/qpa/qplatformthemeplugin.h
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.4K May 29 22:30 
/usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/qt5/QtGui/5.4.2/QtGui/qpa/qplatformthemeplugin.h


I wonder why the include paths are qt4.

Regards,
Ralf

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systemd-nspawn and /run/resolvconf/resolv.conf

[Ralf Mardorf]

Hi,

by default Wily's /etc/resolv.conf is a link against  
../run/resolvconf/resolv.conf. If you want to maintain Wily from another  
install in a systemd-nspawn container, the link needs to be replaced by a  
file /etc/resolv.conf. Since Wily is based on systemd by itself, it IMO  
should care about systemd-nspawn compatibility and by default not link  
against /run.


Assumed nobody should be aware about a reason that a link is a better  
solution, I would report it as a bug.


Do I miss an advantage of this link?

Regards,
Ralf

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Re: qt5ct for Wily

[Ralf Mardorf]

Thank you,

On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 13:40:37 +0300, Timo Jyrinki wrote:
>> [weremouse@moonstudio qt5ct-0.17]$ qtchooser -qt=5 -run-tool=qmake
>> PREFIX=/usr/local
>
>Just use export QT_SELECT=5 (or export QT_SELECT := 5 in debian/rules)
>and run qmake normally.

I already tried this too and it doesn't change anything.

>> main.cpp:29:38: fatal error: qpa/qplatformthemeplugin.h: No such
>> file or directory
>
>That's in qtbase5-private-dev since it's a private header that normal
>apps should not be using.

Yes, the problem is the qt4 path.

On Arch Linux just qmake is selected and it seems to work:

$ grep build -A4 /mnt/archlinux/var/abs/community/qt5ct/PKGBUILD 
build() {
cd $pkgname-$pkgver
qmake-qt5 $pkgname.pro 
make
}

However, on Arch I didn't build it, I just installed the binary package.
Perhaps there's a reason that qt5ct isn't provided by the Ubuntu
repositories and there's another solution already provided to select
theme and fonts, when not using KDE.

It might be related:
Maybe something is broken for my Ubuntu openbox install, e.g. font
sizes selected by .gtkrc-2.0 doesn't affect the menu bar of GTK2 apps
such as spacefm. I don't experience such issues for my Arch install.
For Ubuntu I need to start sessions with  export XDG_CONFIG_DIRS=""
to avoid unwanted autostarts, IOW Ubuntu handles a lot of things in a
different way, compared to the way I know. To handle things in
different ways is ok, unfortunately I can't find links were those
things are documented.

Regards,
Ralf

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Re: systemd-nspawn and /run/resolvconf/resolv.conf

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 21:51:35 -0400, Tom H wrote:
>On Sun, Sep 20, 2015 at 1:11 PM, Ralf Mardorf
> wrote:
>>
>> by default Wily's /etc/resolv.conf is a link against
>> ../run/resolvconf/resolv.conf. If you want to maintain Wily from
>> another install in a systemd-nspawn container, the link needs to be
>> replaced by a file /etc/resolv.conf. Since Wily is based on systemd
>> by itself, it IMO should care about systemd-nspawn compatibility and
>> by default not link against /run.
>>
>> Assumed nobody should be aware about a reason that a link is a better
>> solution, I would report it as a bug.
>
>If you were to set up the "full systemd upstream experience", you'd be
>using systemd-resolved and "/etc/resolv.conf" would be a symlink to
>"/run/systemd/resolve/resolv.conf", so there's no reason why Ubuntu's
>default resolvconf setup shouldn't work, at least when using
>"systemd-nspawn -bD ...".

You are missing the point, Arch Linux does not split packages from
upstream. If I want to maintain Ubuntu from my Arch Linux install I
only get access to the Ubuntu repositories, if Ubuntu does not link.

[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ sudo systemd-nspawn -qD /mnt/moonstudio
[root@moonstudio ~]# ls -l /etc/resolv.*
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 48 Sep 22 08:43 /etc/resolv.conf
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 29 Jul 25 22:50 /etc/resolv.conf.bak -> 
../run/resolvconf/resolv.conf
[root@moonstudio ~]# dpkg -l systemd-resolved
dpkg-query: no packages found matching systemd-resolved

As you can see systemd-resolved isn't installed, but I needed to replace
the link with a resolve.conf file.

Now I can

  [root@moonstudio ~]# apt-get update
  Ign http://de.archive.ubuntu.com wily InRelease
  Ign http://de.archive.ubuntu.com wily-updates InRelease
  Ign http://de.archive.ubuntu.com wily-backports InRelease
  Ign http://security.ubuntu.com wily-security InRelease
  Get:1 http://de.archive.ubuntu.com wily Release.gpg [933 B]
  Hit http://de.archive.ubuntu.com wily-updates Release.gpg  
  Hit http://de.archive.ubuntu.com wily-backports Release.gpg
  Hit http://security.ubuntu.com wily-security Release.gpg
  Get:2 http://de.archive.ubuntu.com wily Release [217 kB]
  Hit http://security.ubuntu.com wily-security Release 
  Hit http://security.ubuntu.com wily-security/main Sources
  Hit http://security.ubuntu.com wily-security/restricted Sources  
  Hit http://security.ubuntu.com wily-security/universe Sources
  99% [2 Release 214 kB/217 kB 99%] [Waiting for headers]^C

But if I would keep the link

  [root@moonstudio ~]# mv -i /etc/resolv.conf /etc/resolv.conf.fix
  [root@moonstudio ~]# mv -i /etc/resolv.conf.bak /etc/resolv.conf 
  [root@moonstudio ~]# ls -l /etc/resolv.*
  lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 29 Jul 25 22:50 /etc/resolv.conf -> 
../run/resolvconf/resolv.conf
  -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 48 Sep 22 08:43 /etc/resolv.conf.fix
  [root@moonstudio ~]# apt-get update
  Err http://de.archive.ubuntu.com wily InRelease
  
  Err http://security.ubuntu.com wily-security InRelease
  
  Err http://de.archive.ubuntu.com wily-updates InRelease
  
  Err http://de.archive.ubuntu.com wily-backports InRelease
  
  Err http://security.ubuntu.com wily-security Release.gpg
  Temporary failure resolving 'security.ubuntu.com'
  Err http://de.archive.ubuntu.com wily Release.gpg
  Temporary failure resolving 'de.archive.ubuntu.com'
  Err http://de.archive.ubuntu.com wily-updates Release.gpg
  Temporary failure resolving 'de.archive.ubuntu.com'
  Err http://de.archive.ubuntu.com wily-backports Release.gpg
  Temporary failure resolving 'de.archive.ubuntu.com'
  ^Cading package lists... 17%

And again, if I remove the annoying Ubuntu default link everything is
working again.

  [root@moonstudio ~]# mv -i /etc/resolv.conf /etc/resolv.conf.bak
  [root@moonstudio ~]# mv -i /etc/resolv.conf.fix /etc/resolv.conf 
  [root@moonstudio ~]# ls -l /etc/resolv.*
  -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 48 Sep 22 08:43 /etc/resolv.conf
  lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 29 Jul 25 22:50 /etc/resolv.conf.bak -> 
../run/resolvconf/resolv.conf
  [root@moonstudio ~]# apt-get update
  Ign http://de.archive.ubuntu.com wily InRelease
  Ign http://security.ubuntu.com wily-security InRelease
  Ign http://de.archive.ubuntu.com wily-updates InRelease
  Hit http://security.ubuntu.com wily-security Release.gpg
  Ign http://de.archive.ubuntu.com wily-backports InRelease
  Hit http://security.ubuntu.com wily-security Release

sytemd from upstream doesn't contain /etc/resolv.conf
https://www.archlinux.org/packages/core/x86_64/systemd/files/

Ubuntu and Arch's systemd from upstream contain another file.

  [root@moonstudio ~]# cat /etc/systemd/resolved.conf
  #  This file is part of systemd.
  #
  #  systemd is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it
  #  under the terms of the GNU Lesser General 

Re: systemd-nspawn and /run/resolvconf/resolv.conf

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 21:51:35 -0400, Tom H wrote:
>"systemd-nspawn -bD ...".

I missed this.

  -b --boot

I'll test it now ...

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Re: systemd-nspawn and /run/resolvconf/resolv.conf

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 10:19:11 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 21:51:35 -0400, Tom H wrote:
>>"systemd-nspawn -bD ...".
>
>I missed this.
>
>  -b --boot
>
>I'll test it now ...

[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ sudo mv -i /mnt/moonstudio/etc/resolv.conf 
/mnt/moonstudio/etc/resolv.conf.fix 
[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ sudo mv -i /mnt/moonstudio/etc/resolv.conf.bak 
/mnt/moonstudio/etc/resolv.conf
[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ ls -l /mnt/moonstudio/etc/resolv.conf
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 29 Jul 25 22:50 /mnt/moonstudio/etc/resolv.conf -> 
../run/resolvconf/resolv.conf
[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ sudo systemd-nspawn -qbD /mnt/moonstudio
[snip]
Ubuntu Wily Werewolf (development branch) moonstudio console

moonstudio login: root
Password: 

The programs included with the Ubuntu system are free software;
the exact distribution terms for each program are described in the
individual files in /usr/share/doc/*/copyright.

Ubuntu comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by
applicable law.

  [root@moonstudio ~]# apt-get update
  Err http://de.archive.ubuntu.com wily InRelease
  
  Err http://de.archive.ubuntu.com wily-updates InRelease
  
  Err http://de.archive.ubuntu.com wily-backports InRelease
  
  Err http://security.ubuntu.com wily-security InRelease
  
  Err http://security.ubuntu.com wily-security Release.gpg
  Temporary failure resolving 'security.ubuntu.com'
  Err http://de.archive.ubuntu.com wily Release.gpg
  Temporary failure resolving 'de.archive.ubuntu.com'
  Err http://de.archive.ubuntu.com wily-updates Release.gpg
  Temporary failure resolving 'de.archive.ubuntu.com'
  Err http://de.archive.ubuntu.com wily-backports Release.gpg
  Temporary failure resolving 'de.archive.ubuntu.com'
  ^Cading package lists... 33%
  [root@moonstudio ~]#
  [root@moonstudio ~]# mv -i /etc/resolv.conf /etc/resolv.conf.bak
  [root@moonstudio ~]# mv -i /etc/resolv.conf.fix /etc/resolv.conf 
  [root@moonstudio ~]# ls -l /etc/resolv.*
  -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 48 Sep 22 08:43 /etc/resolv.conf
  lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 29 Jul 25 22:50 /etc/resolv.conf.bak -> 
../run/resolvconf/resolv.conf
  [root@moonstudio ~]# apt-get update
  Ign http://security.ubuntu.com wily-security InRelease
  Ign http://de.archive.ubuntu.com wily InRelease
  Hit http://security.ubuntu.com wily-security Release.gpg
  Ign http://de.archive.ubuntu.com wily-updates InRelease
  Hit http://security.ubuntu.com wily-security Release
  Ign http://de.archive.ubuntu.com wily-backports InRelease
  Hit http://de.archive.ubuntu.com wily Release.gpg
  Hit http://security.ubuntu.com wily-security/main Sources
  Hit http://de.archive.ubuntu.com wily-updates Release.gpg
  Hit http://security.ubuntu.com wily-security/restricted Sources
  Hit http://de.archive.ubuntu.com wily-backports Release.gpg

It's the same issue. It only works without the link, but starting in the
container takes longer. The only advantage seems to be the possibility to
login as user without root privileges.

Regards,
Ralf

  

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Re: systemd-nspawn and /run/resolvconf/resolv.conf

[Ralf Mardorf]

Thank you Tom for taking the time.

On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 08:36:27 -0400, Tom H wrote:
>systemd-resolved is a service not a package.

Ok, I didn't know it.

[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ systemctl status systemd-resolved
● systemd-resolved.service - Network Name Resolution
   Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/system/systemd-resolved.service; disabled; 
vendor preset: enabled)
   Active: inactive (dead)
 Docs: man:systemd-resolved.service(8)

>So it works when using "-b".
>
>But you're right, it doesn't when not using "-b".
>
>Ubuntu decided to default to using resolvconf with 12.04. I suspect
>that it'll take more than "it doesn't work when using systemd-nspawn
>as a basic chroot process" for this change to be reversed.

So I don't report it as a bug.

>Do you have lxc installed? How does it handle resolv.conf as a symlink?

No. Since I never used it, it's too time consuming to care about
LinuxContainers now.

Regards,
Ralf


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Re: tascam us-16x08 settings panel

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 09:10:23 +0200, Mr. Kraus wrote:
>http://tascam.com/content/downloads/products/859/us-16x08_driver_v103_win.zip).
  
  
Is it an application or a driver?
Perhaps it's a driver for Windows, if so it's useless for Linux. Wine
can emulate a Windows environment for some applications, but hardware
drivers need to be provided for the Linux kernel.

Regards,
Ralf

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Re: systemd-nspawn and /run/resolvconf/resolv.conf

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Thu, 24 Sep 2015 13:03:32 -0400, Tom H wrote:
>  chroot_add_mount /etc/resolv.conf "$resolv_conf" --bind
>}
>
>So they mount the host's resolv.conf on the chroot's.
>
>And there's the following patch in lxc 0.7.5-3ubuntu69:
>
># cat 0031-ubuntu-template-resolvconf.patch
>Description: handle /etc/resolv.conf being a symlink

:)

Since I don't want to use the systemd-nspawn boot option, I'll keep a
resolv.conf in Ubuntu's /etc.

Regards,
Ralf

PS: OT: Today I replaced my ADSL-modem with a router.

# pidof pppd || echo ":D"
:D

I still use a LAN cable for my PC and WLAN only for a tablet PC. I
wonder how secure the WLAN is and how to disable it, so I have to read
a little bit.

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Re: On fresh installation of beta 2, DSL/PPPoE doesn't work

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Wed, 14 Oct 2015 10:33:10 +0300, Mustafa Muhammad wrote:
>I've reported this days before 15.04 release, there were no time to fix
>before that release.
>https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1446689
>Now, we are approaching 15.10, the fix should be straight forward,
>adding a build flag or adding pppoe as a dependency.
>Could you please fix before release.  

Hi,

PPPoE does work, your subject should mention that NetworkManager needs
a fix, since PPPoE doesn't need a fix.

$ cat /mnt/moonstudio/etc/issue
Ubuntu Wily Werewolf (development branch) \n \l

$ ls -hAl /mnt/moonstudio/usr/local/sbin/alice*
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 2.0K Jul 30
16:38 /mnt/moonstudio/usr/local/sbin/alice
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1.7K
Sep 26 16:35 /mnt/moonstudio/usr/local/sbin/alice-dhcp

The first script more or less runs

modprobe -v pppoe
ip link set enp3s0 up
pon dsl-provider

if wanted launched at startup by a systemd unit. NetworkManager isn't
installed. Apart from those 3 short commands I set up pppoe using
pppoeconf. It provides a ncurses UI to make the settings, so the few
users who use pppoe instead of dhcp don't need to be experienced Linux
users to set up pppoe without NetworkManager.

Don't get me wrong, it's good that you mention that NetworkManager
should provide PPPoE by default. I only want to point out that PPPoE
does work.

Regards,
Ralf

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Re: Liferea unwanted deps

[Ralf Mardorf]

Hi,

Consider not to install all optional dependencies.

sudo - i
apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade
apt-get install --no-install-recommends liferea

Regarding http://packages.ubuntu.com/wily/liferea
consider to run also:

apt-get install --no-install-recommends gnome-keyring

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Re: Liferea unwanted deps

[Ralf Mardorf]

> There's a reported bug about this. 
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/liferea/+bug/1503352
> 
> Seems that liferea has steadyflow and kget listed as recommends - and 
> steadyflow is not available in Wily.

sudo apt-get no-install-recommends kget

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Security

[Ralf Mardorf]

Schneier once mentioned that he has got two computers. One is connected to the 
Internet, the other isn't ;).

Regarding security concerns people should consider to use containers. An expert 
should chime in, perhaps FreeBSD jails are better than Linux containers.

However, I'm using systemd-nspawn to maintain Ubuntu when running Arch and vice 
versa. Depending to the way systemd-nspawn "starts" the other Linux install, 
the behavior regarding the shared resolver.conf already differs. 
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PS

[Ralf Mardorf]

Sorry for breaking subject and thread.

I guess completely overwriting a memory is secure, just shredding individual 
files is insecure.
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Re: Feature request: "Restart to ..." option

[Ralf Mardorf]

If you need it right now, you could write a script, however, that's not
the reason for my reply. The reason is, that I want to mention, that
sometimes a reboot isn't required, chroot or systemd-nspawn makes it
unnecessary to reboot, at least for some purpose.

sudo systemd-nspawn -qD /mnt/point/of/another/linux/install
sudo systemd-nspawn -bqD /mnt/point/of/another/linux/install

Regards,
Ralf

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Re: Feature request: "Restart to ..." option

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 02 Nov 2015 19:40:42 +0100, Oliver Grawert wrote: 
>i assume on an ubuntu system you would rather use lxc/lxd

Also available for other major distros, so there are several
alternatives to a reboot.

For maintaining another distro when booted to Ubuntu and vice versa,
systemd-nspawn for my needs is the simplest way and I guess for
real-time audio work I anyway need to reboot, but indeed the OP should
consider to test Linux containers too. Btw. one day I likely will also
test Linux containers.

Regards,
Ralf

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Re: Community Council election

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Fri, 13 Nov 2015 06:59:47 +, Biesenbach, Jens wrote:
>Please add me if you could unsubscribe me too. Someone set me on this
>list and i have no password at all. I try since years to get out of
>any Ubuntu stuff. 
>
>Please erase me from all lists!
>
>Thanks if someone can help.

Jens, we could unsubscribe you, but then you anyway still need to
confirm it. However, nobody should do it for you. FWIW if somebody else
subscribed you, then you still needed to confirm either.

1. You don't need a password to unsubscribe.

>From the header of every email send from the list:

List-Unsubscribe: 
, 
 

I translate this cryptic header.

Write the subject

  unsubscribe

and send an empty mail, withou a body text, with just that subject to

  ubuntu-devel-discuss-requ...@lists.ubuntu.com

do _not_ send it to

  ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com

  

2. You could ask for a password reminder and unsubscribe using the
mailman web interface.

>From the footer of every email send from the list.

Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss

It's the same for all mailman lists and AFAIK all Ubuntu and it's
flavour's mailing list area based on mailman.

More information could be found using a search engine with search terms
such as
  ubuntu wiki unsubscribe mailing list
another search term requires to be aware of mailman
  mailman unsubscribe mailing list

http://www.list.org/mailman-member/node14.html

Hth,
Ralf

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Re: GNOME Files (Nautilus) very out-dated

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Fri, 20 Nov 2015 22:43:18 +0100, Abel wrote:
>I'm on Ubuntu 15.10 64 bits and I've noticed that GNOME Files
>(Nautilus) application is in version 3.14.2, while most of the other
>GNOME apps on 15.10 are in 3.16.2.  

On Sat, 21 Nov 2015 16:12:25 +0800, kahping wrote:
>gEdit is 3.10.4 which is much older than that. Maybe update that
>first?  

Hi,

do Nautilus and Gedit not work? Are they broken ore are there security
holes? If so, report it to the bug tracker. If not, why do you
expect it to be upgraded for an Ubuntu release that already is released?

Assumed all dependencies are available and upstream provides stable
3.16.2 releases of Nautilus and Gedit you easily could build the
packages yourself, take a look at the Ubuntu Wikis and help pages. You
can use the source packages of existing versions and replace the source
code with the source code from upstream to build new packages. You do
not need to be a power user or coder to do this, just follow a Wiki or
help page's step by step guide. I quite sure there are such howtos.

Ubuntu isn't a rolling release distro, upgrades won't happen just for
version hunting purpose. The disadvantage of version hunting is the
risk to break stability and new features could break the work-flow,
so companies might need to train there employees to use newer versions.

Regards,
Ralf
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Re: GNOME Files (Nautilus) very out-dated

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sat, 21 Nov 2015 11:33:57 +0100, Abel wrote:
>It's a bad practice to have different versions of GNOME software in the
>same system, since GNOME is thought to have all the GNOME Framework
>using the same version.

I suspect that there's a clash of interests. Isn't UNITY based a lot on
GNOME? Among users of the GNOME mailer Evolution Ubuntu is known to
continuously cause serious issues. Perhaps the GNOME package maintainers
could explain the Ubuntu policy regarding GNOME packages.

A lot of packages are synced with Debian, so perhaps GNOME packages
needed by UNITY are not synced with Debian, but chosen to fit best to
UNITY. That's just a shot in the dark.

Regards,
Ralf
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Re: Freeradius package updates

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 08:56:20 +, Greg Antic wrote:
>
>The views expressed in this email are, unless otherwise stated,
>those of the author and not those of Smart Technology Centre or 
>its management.  The information in this email is
>confidential and is intended solely for the addressee. Access to
>this email by any other party is unauthorised. If you are not the
>intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any
>action taken or omitted in reliance on this, is prohibited and
>may be unlawful. Whilst all reasonable steps are taken to ensure
>the accuracy and integrity of information and data transmitted
>electronically and to preserve the confidentiality thereof, no
>liability or responsibility whatsoever is accepted if
>information or data is, for whatever reason, corrupted or does
>not reach its intended destination.
>***

Don't forget to at such useful footers to your postcards and other
snailmail too.


This mail is intended solely for subscribers of this mailing list and
visitors of the official mailing list archives.


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Re: Freeradius package updates

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 13:02:09 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 08:56:20 +, Greg Antic wrote:
>>
>>The views expressed in this email are, unless otherwise stated,
>>those of the author and not those of Smart Technology Centre or 
>>its management.  The information in this email is
>>confidential and is intended solely for the addressee. Access to
>>this email by any other party is unauthorised. If you are not the
>>intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any
>>action taken or omitted in reliance on this, is prohibited and
>>may be unlawful. Whilst all reasonable steps are taken to ensure
>>the accuracy and integrity of information and data transmitted
>>electronically and to preserve the confidentiality thereof, no
>>liability or responsibility whatsoever is accepted if
>>information or data is, for whatever reason, corrupted or does
>>not reach its intended destination.
>>***  

Sorry for the typo.

>Don't forget to at such useful footers to your postcards and other
 ^^^
 add
>snailmail too.


This mail is intended solely for subscribers of this mailing list and
visitors of the official mailing list archives.

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Re: Where is the Zentyal source package repository?

[Ralf Mardorf]

Regarding the Ubuntu package search there is no repository for
Zentyal 4.2, but it provides a link to the homepage. It obviously was
dropped after Trusty, so you need to get the source from Github.
Seemingly you got the package from a third party and not from official
Ubuntu repositories.

http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?suite=all&arch=any&searchon=names&keywords=zentyal-samba
http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/z/zentyal-samba/zentyal-samba_2.3.12+quantal1ubuntu1.tar.gz
http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/z/zentyal-samba/zentyal-samba_2.3.3.tar.gz

http://www.zentyal.org/
https://github.com/Zentyal/zentyal

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Re: Wallpapers for Ubuntu 16.04

[Ralf Mardorf]

It's nice to discover lights and things in the road building lines, when
taking a look at Night Lights.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/138596056@N03/23769648846/in/album-72157661899610660/lightbox/

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Re: Please, complete this bug report

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sun, 20 Dec 2015 19:49:53 +0100, Alberto Salvia Novella wrote:
>Please enter any package manager that is unlisted in:
>https://bugs.launchpad.net/apt/+bug/1528028

"For example if I install the "cortina" package, it takes with it the
GNOME Display Manager and plenty of wallpapers. Then if I uninstall it
and do "sudo apt-get autoremove" those packages are not detected as
unused."


Hi,

it's not a bug of the package management, it's an user error.

They were not automatically installed to satisfy dependencies.
Installing a recommended or suggested dependency should be
considered as being explicitly installed and you don't want that
autoremove affects explicitly installed packages. 

GNOME Display Manager isn't a hard dependency, it's an optional
dependency, for Ubuntu one of the _recommended_ dependencies, take a
look at http://packages.ubuntu.com/wily/cortina
-> http://packages.ubuntu.com/wily/gnome-shell

If you're using apt-get, then install with the
"--no-install-recommends" option. If you're using a GUI instead of
apt-get, read it's fine manual.

Regards,
Ralf
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Re: Please, complete this bug report

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sun, 20 Dec 2015 20:23:47 +0100, Alberto Salvia Novella wrote:
>Ralf Mardorf:
>> It's not a bug of the package management, it's an user error.  
>
>What is the likelihood of these people making the error?:
>https://wiki.ubuntu.com/One%20Hundred%20Papercuts/Average%20users

"Average users are humans that you can found in the street. This is to
say, usually they aren't computer technicians."


Hi,

humans need to learn the most simple things, e.g. to use forks and
knives, without being a maker of forks and knives.

Please recommend how thought-reading should be done by a package
manager?

Debian/Ubuntu already split optional dependencies. Some optional
dependencies are recommended and others are suggested. This is not done
by upstream of the software and user-centric distros such as Arch don't
provide it.

The default is to install recommended dependencies, but not suggested
dependencies. There are different ways to change the default, one is to
temporarily disable it by using apt-get with the
"--no-install-recommends" option.

Assumed the default would become to install no optional dependencies,
then a lot of your averaged users will complain to get incomplete
applications.

Any idea how to solve this? Sure, autoremove could consider recommended
dependencies as automatically installed, but likely already now some
users complain that autoremove uninstalls software they still want to
use.

IOW what you consider as not being user-friendly is the lowest common
denominator for your so called averaged user. It's not that way to fit
to the needs of geeks.

Regards,
Ralf
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Re: How shall I report a bug in the .deb packaging itself?

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Tue, 22 Dec 2015 00:35:25 +, Robie Basak wrote:
>On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 03:08:51PM +0100, Julian Andres Klode wrote:
>> I'll repeat this one last time for you: If A suggests B, and you
>> install B in some way, you may have come to rely on the fact that A
>> is extended by B on your system. Automatically removing B could thus
>> cause an unexpected loss of functionality.  
>
>I understand your logic here. But doesn't the same logic apply to
>Depends? If B depends on A and you install B in some way, then you may
>have come to reply on the fact that A is extended by B on your system,
>etc.
>
>I had always assumed that this is the risk you take by using autoremove
>and thus you need to pay attention to what you autoremove, which is for
>example why unattended-upgrades is sensible by not doing it by default.
>
>What makes Recommends and Suggests special?

They are optional dependencies. Software can run without optional
dependencies, just some options are missing if those dependencies
aren't installed. Hard dependencies are dependencies that are needed by
the software.

Recommended and suggested dependencies are Debian/Ubuntu terms for
optional dependencies. The default is that recommended dependencies are
automatically installed too and suggested dependencies are not
automatically installed.

There is something else to consider regarding upgrades, the difference
between upgrade (under no circumstances are currently installed
packages removed, nor are packages that are not already installed
retrieved and installed) and dist-upgrade (a "smart" conflict
resolution system, and it will attempt to upgrade the most important
packages at the expense of less important ones, if necessary).

However, claims to make it more user-friendly for some so called
"averaged" user are hard to fulfil, solutions always need to be
solutions based on the common ground. User-friendly doesn't mean that a
non restricted free operating system could be used without a learning
curve or without any self-responsibility.

Even if the package management would be able to read the mind of a
user, it only could do what's in the mind of the user.

The package management is unable to read the mind, but a user can
configure the package management not to use the defaults. The defaults
of Ubuntu try to fit to what is common ground of "averaged" users.

Somebody already pointed out, the only enhancement could be an undo
option based on the package management's log (history), but that could
become very tricky. I bet it will cause more trouble, than enhance
user-friendliness.
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Re: How shall I report a bug in the .deb packaging itself?

[Ralf Mardorf]

Hi Alberto,

On Thu, 24 Dec 2015 01:50:45 +0100, Alberto Salvia Novella wrote:
>What if:
>- "remove" removes a package and all the unused depends, recommends
>and suggests.
>- but before removing asks the user to exclude packages from the 
>removal, and from that moment marks those as installed by the user.
>- "autoremove" only removes depends.

What do you think would users say, who are using apt for more than 10
years? It also requires to rewrite scripts and programs based on apt.

>Would that make us get rid of complains?

What do you think?

What should "purge" do?

Btw. do you think it would be a good idea if apt would provide a
checklist that ask the user for each command 20 or 30 questions before
it continues?

Should there be an Ubuntu apt hat differs from the Debian apt?

What you are trying to do is making something proved more complicated,
less friendly for your averaged user and for power users.

1. Irresponsible users, IOW your averaged user who wants to use the
computer without learning how to use a computer, likely a refugee from
Windows, doesn't care. This user pushes a button to install software and
another button to remove it. This kind of user won't notice a few
packages that were not removed, but this kind of user would notice, if
software that wasn't explicitly removed is missing.

2. Self-responsible users, willing to learn how to use a computer in
the same way as they learned how to eat with forks and knifes, how to
use a washing machine etc., are simply aware how apt works without the
need to be power users and assumed they are pedantic or simply very
interested, they will learn more and more and become power users soon
or later.

Nobody, really nobody would benefit from changing apt this way.

I'm speaking for all Debian, Ubuntu, Debian derivatives and Ubuntu
derivatives user, they are all sitting in my room at the moment and bow
assent.

Regards,
Ralf

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Re: How shall I report a bug in the .deb packaging itself?

[Ralf Mardorf]

Hi Alberto,

seemingly you can't provide new arguments, so you should expect to get the  
same replies and perhaps some subscribers consider it as trolling or  
spamming, so that they don't read mails of this thread anymore.


On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 15:22:02 +0100, Alberto Salvia Novella wrote:

David Kalnischkies:
 > Your complain was after all that apt declares some packages you
 > consider unused as used...

The problem seems to be that the package manager does not make its basic
functionality, which is to make clear for users which packages they wish
to remove.


A package manager's functionality is to remove packages, but not to know  
(and to make clear) what the user wishes to remove.
Apt has got no mind reading abilities, but apt provides options, such as  
"--no-install-recommends" and a configuration file, assumed it's not only  
temporarily wanted. Apt based GUIs such as Synaptic provide a  
configuration either, but I don't know if they are related to this issue.



http://tinyurl.com/q7rkpcg


aka https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy#Intentional_fallacies

Have you read it and compared with what you're doing? Consider also to read

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossposting

and compare it with what you're doing.

Regarding Ubuntu flavors I'm subscribed to this list and to
- Ubuntu users
- Xubuntu users
- Ubunbtu Studio users
- Ubuntu Studio devel
at least since month, to some lists since years and I was subscribed to at  
least

- Kubuntu user
- Debian user
too.

What you consider to be an issue, seems to be not an issue for others, I  
can't remember any thread about this subject. Changing the behavior of apt  
most likely would cause confusion and break the work-flow of many users,  
without providing a benefit.


A suggestion already was made, it might be possible to provide a very  
limited undo feature based on the log file, aka history. I wouldn't expect  
that somebody will program this, but you could write a script yourself, so  
no special programming abilities are needed.


Upstream and some other distros usually do not separate recommended and  
suggested dependencies, it's a Debian policy.


"Recommends

This declares a strong, but not absolute, dependency.

The Recommends field should list packages that would be found together  
with this one in all but unusual installations.


Suggests

This is used to declare that one package may be more useful with one or  
more others. Using this field tells the packaging system and the user that  
the listed packages are related to this one and can perhaps enhance its  
usefulness, but that installing this one without them is perfectly  
reasonable." -  
https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html


This policy has got advantages and drawbacks. One of the drawbacks is what  
you're experiencing as an issue, IOW it doesn't perfectly fits to  
everybody's needs. My favorite package management isn't apt. I prefer  
pacman over apt. However, you likely would prefer apt over pacman, but  
there might be another package management that fit better to your needs,  
than apt does.


IMO a distro should stay with it's policy and not change it to satisfy a  
minority of users of this distro. I don't expect Ubuntu/Debian to adopt  
the way pacman works, since it's made to fit to a completely different  
policy, for a completely different distro, with a completely different  
target group. For my needs I use another distro, to help Linux musicians I  
additionally use Ubuntu flavors. IMO you unlikely will find a more  
user-friendly distro than Ubuntu, this is at least the distro the so  
called averaged user (mentioned by you) prefers over other distros. It's  
very risky to change basics of a distro, especially if just a minority of  
users would benefit from such changes, that at the same time likely would  
confuse a majority of users.


Regards,
Ralf

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Re: How shall I report a bug in the .deb packaging itself?

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 19:03:16 +0100, Alberto Salvia Novella wrote:
>Ralf Mardorf:
> > Seemingly you can't provide new arguments, so you should expect to
> > get the same replies and perhaps some subscribers consider it as
> > trolling or spamming, so that they don't read mails of this thread
> > anymore.  
>
>If I disagreed with you, how much would you care?

1. You described an issue.

2. IIRC everybody agrees that this issue does exist, but that for a
majority of users it's not important, it's not really an issue and that
there is no good way to solve this, without risking to cause serious
annoyances.

3. IIRC perhaps somebody will add an undo function to a GUI. You could
consider to use the history to manually purge unwanted dependencies, so
you even don't need to write a script.

[root@moonstudio ~]# ls -hAl /var/log/apt/
total 1.3M
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 161K Dec 20 12:46 history.log
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  13K Aug  5 02:21 history.log.1.gz
-rw-r- 1 root adm  1.1M Dec 20 12:46 term.log
-rw-r- 1 root adm   40K Aug  5 02:21 term.log.1.gz

In the future you could install packages without recommended
dependencies you don't want to install, it was several times explained
how to do this.

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Re: Packaging an application

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 11:11:53 +0530, Lloyd wrote:
>I understand that dpkg wont install the dependencies.

Assumed all dependencies should be available by the repositories

$ sudo -i
# cd path/to/package/
# apt-get update && dpkg -i --force-depends packagename.deb && apt-get install 
-f

might do the trick. But since force options should be avoided

$ sudo -i
# cd path/to/package/
# apt-get update && apt-get install list.deb of.deb dependencies.deb && dpkg -i 
packagename.deb

>What is the best way to make the installation hassle free for the user?

Only to depend on packages provided by the official repositories ;).

To compile without usage of shared dependencies and to install the
software together with it's dependencies to opt/?

To ensure that installing/updating shared dependencies won't break any Ubuntu
install and to provide the package and all dependencies by a PPA, resp.
by the mentioned CD?

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Re: about break upstart

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 14:39:05 +0800, yan...@iscas.ac.cn wrote:
>when I install lsb-base,but it tell me it will break
>upstart(<<1.12.1-0ubuntu8)) What does it mean? Need  I  update the
>upstart?

What exactly does it tell you? Copy and paste the output you get. Which
Ubuntu release do you use? Are you using a third party repository?

FWIW https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users


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Re: Mounting Documents folder from iOS

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 08:52:52 -0800, Mike M wrote:
>For a few releases I have not been able to mount the Documents folder
>of my iOS devices under Ubuntu.  This prevents me from copying large
>videos via cable over to VLC for viewing (instead of typing urls and
>slower wifi).  

I run iTunes on a Windows 7 guest in Virtualbox. Sharing a read and
write folder with the Linux host is more comfortable when using
Virtualbox, than using KVM/VirtManager. Since I don't use it to share
videos, just to share scripts, pictures and app data such as MIDI files
and WAV, I don't know if virtualisation is as slow as wifi. IOW iTunes
on a Windows guest doesn't perform fast, but it allows to transfer data
by wire.

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Re: Skype not installable on trusty

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Fri, 2016-01-15 at 05:08 -0800, Daniel Holbach wrote:
>  - on systems where skype is installed already apt
>    updates/installations are now broken

There are claims that skype is often used for radio interviews, perhaps
somebody subscribed to 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
could help you. Ubuntu Studio is an official Ubuntu flavour.

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Re: dark theme out of the box

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 12:19:59 +0100, Alex ARNAUD wrote:
>Ubuntu Mate as I know provide dark theme. Gnome3 also provides
>contract theme. I don't use Unity so I don't know anything about it.  

Do those dark theme work flawlessly with all apps using different
versions of Qt, GTK or whatsoever? What ever WM or DE I used, I never
have seen a dark theme that didn't cause serious issues. I always used
and still use bright themes only. I would like to be able to switch
between a dark theme and a bright theme. By daylight a bright theme
avoids light reflexes in the monitor and by night a dark theme is
relaxing for the eyes, however, since I'm using apps based on all kinds
of framework, there seems to be no dark theme available that allows to
use all apps without issues.

This issue isn't related to Ubuntu or a dedicated WM or DE, it's a
general Linux GUI issue. AFAIK there's no usable dark theme available.

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Re: Feature request: module [pam_limits]

[Ralf Mardorf]

# 
@foo   softnproc  20
@foo   hardnproc  50

Every user who is _not_ in the group "foo", simply is _not_ in
this group, it makes completely no sense to introduce a negation of
being in a group, since the negation is already not being member of this
group.

[foo@linux ~]$ id foo
uid=1000(foo) gid=1000(foo) groups=1000(foo)

[foo@linux ~]$ id bar 
uid=1001(bar) gid=1001(bar) groups=1001(bar),1000(foo)

[foo@linux ~]$ id jane_doe
uid=1002(jane_doe) gid=1002(jane_doe) groups=1002(jane_doe)

What would you gain by introducing a negation of being in a group? You
only would lose clarity?

You could set up a new group, if nobody should be in the group
"foo", but the user "foo".

# 
@npgroup   softnproc  20
@npgroup   hardnproc  50

[foo@linux ~]$ id foo
uid=1000(foo) gid=1000(foo) groups=1000(foo),50(npgroup)

[foo@linux ~]$ id bar 
uid=1001(bar) gid=1001(bar) groups=1001(bar),50(npgroup)

[foo@linux ~]$ id jane_doe
uid=1002(jane_doe) gid=1002(jane_doe) groups=1002(jane_doe)

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Re: suggest policy: all GUI apps that display files/folders right-click copies full path

[Ralf Mardorf]

I guess you need to file a feature request to upstream, IOW to the GNOME
bug tracker.

I'm not using Nautilus, but if you use Thunar, and the address bar e.g.
shows /home/rocketmouse/ while .bogofilter is selected and you Ctrl+A
and Ctrl+C in the address bar, you get /home/rocketmouse/.bogofilter
and not just /home/rocketmouse/. In addition Thunar provides a right
click menu with "Open Terminal Here".

FWIW I'm even not a Thunar user, I just mention it, since this might be
what you expect.

I prefer SpaceFM over any other file manager.

In SpaceFM select e.g. .bogofilter, then Ctrl+C and you
get /home/rocketmouse/.bogofilter, this way it btw. can be done for
Thunar too.

Let alone Rodent, were you can click everything by mouse and without
using a terminal, you simply can type any terminal command.

IIRC the KDE file manager allows to split the window in file manager and
terminal and the terminal follows each step done by the file manager.

If you select an item when using Caja and you copy it works too, so
this file manager from Mate might be close enough to Nautilus for you.

Actually Nemo, the Nautilus fork from Cinnamon isn't that comfortable,
but it at least provides a right click "Open In Terminal", that
OTOH fails on my install.

Tested on an Arch install, since for my Ubuntu Wily install I only have
SpaceFM and Rodent installed.

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Re: suggest policy: all GUI apps that display files/folders right-click copies full path

[Ralf Mardorf]

PS:

FWIW reagrding your request Xfe also is a PITA.

Note, an advantage of SpceFM, Rodent and Thunar (Thunar at least without
gvfs) is, that they allow to delete items with the delete key, while
other file managers don't delete, they usually only allow to move to
trash (~/.local/share/Trash/).

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Re: suggest policy: all GUI apps that display files/folders right-click copies full path

[Ralf Mardorf]

PPS:

I suspect that Nautilus provides to add plugin/action scripts, for
SpaceFM you can write "tools" scripts. IOW when using the variable "%f"
you could write a script that copies to the clip board or opens a
terminal with the full path etc..

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Re: suggest policy: all GUI apps that display files/folders right-click copies full path

[Ralf Mardorf]

PPPS:

On Sun, 27 Mar 2016 10:47:37 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>PPS:
>
>I suspect that Nautilus provides to add plugin/action scripts, for
>SpaceFM you can write "tools" scripts. IOW when using the variable "%f"
>you could write a script that copies to the clip board or opens a
>terminal with the full path etc..

http://askubuntu.com/questions/21953/how-do-i-customize-the-context-menu-in-nautilus
http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/wily/man1/xclip.1.html




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Re: the fragile boot process [on encryption setups and home data]

[Ralf Mardorf]

Bart, you're confusing Ubuntu defaults with Linux.
Ubuntu is a Linux distro, but it's not Linux.

1. Ubuntu isn't the only distro, some distros have different defaults,
e.g. boot not necessarily hangs, if something in fstab isn't available.

2. FHS compliance is a good thing and you seemingly misunderstand a
few things,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard ,
https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/ .

Even FHS compliance doesn't mean that all distros default to the same
directories.

3. Instead of waiting that somebody customised Ubuntu to your
needs, consider to use a more user-centric distro and set it up to your
needs by yourself. Actually you could do it for an Ubuntu install too,
but this might be more work.

IMO it's already much user-friendly, if a distro doesn't follow 100%
of the
http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.html .

Regards,
Ralf

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Re: the fragile boot process [on encryption setups and home data]

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Tue, 29 Mar 2016 04:20:15 +0200, Tom H wrote:
>If you add "nofail" to an fstab entry's options, the generated mount
>unit "wants" local-fs.target or remote-fs.target and boot won't fail
>if it fails.

The OP expect this to be the default, perhaps the OP expects all users
have the same needs as he has got. Since the OP is not interested to
read provided links or to google, to get at least basic knowledge, we
just throw pearls before swine.

>This is more of an ubuntu-users question

Assumed the OP wants to get help to understand FHS, freedesktop and all
the other things the OP doesn't understand, then yes, ubuntu-users would
be the appropriate place to sent those requests. However, the OP
perhaps should consider to stop calling names and to beginn writing
shorter emails, one for each issue. One reason for this is, that it's
common to first read an entire request and after that to read it again
and to reply to each question, resp. assumption. I doubt that many
subscribers read the OPs too long mails, full of wrong assumptions, let
alone to read each mail two times, to clarify each misunderstanding,
resp. lack of knowledge.

Should we explain why e.g. opt/ is a useful directory, what /usr/local
actually is for, if the subject is about booting encrypted "home data"?

Btw. even distros that by default reduce the amount of directories
should be used with links:

[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ ls -Ggd /bin /sbin /usr/bin/ /usr/sbin
lrwxrwxrwx 1  7 Sep 30 21:17 /bin -> usr/bin
lrwxrwxrwx 1  7 Sep 30 21:17 /sbin -> usr/bin
drwxr-xr-x 5 217088 Mar 27 21:41 /usr/bin/
lrwxrwxrwx 1  3 Sep 30 21:17 /usr/sbin -> bin

Compatibility is worth an award :D.

Regards,
Ralf

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Re: the fragile boot process [on encryption setups and home data]

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Tue, 29 Mar 2016 04:20:15 +0200, Tom H wrote:
>On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 2:23 AM, Xen  wrote:
>>
>> If the halt-on-fstab-problem is Ubuntu related, then it is clear my
>> message should have been sent here and not some other Linux distro
>> or whatever.  
>
>The halt-on-fstab-problem isn't an Ubuntu feature, it's a systemd one.

And the defaults are not systemd related.

"Basic filesystem-independent options are:

  defaults
 use default options: rw, suid, dev, exec,  auto,  nouser,
 and async." - 
http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/wily/man5/fstab.5.html

"defaults
  Use the default options: rw, suid, dev, exec, auto, nouser,  and
  async.

  Note  that  the real set of all default mount options depends on
  kernel and filesystem type.  See the beginning of  this  section
  for more details." - 
http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/wily/man8/mount.8.html

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Re: suggest policy: all GUI apps that display files/folders right-click copies full path

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 12:10:08 +0200, Xen wrote:
>Tom H schreef op 31-03-16 10:38:
>> The only way to push for a change is to file an RFE bug with
>> upstream.  
>
>Lots of people give up before they even try.

Please provide evidences for this claim. Did you even try?

Assumed you want to know if more users need such a default, you should
ask on a user list.

Without success I tried hard to explain upstream of different projects
that gvfs damages external green HDDs, because it for no valid reason
wakes up sleeping drives, so that they spin down and up again and again
and I ask them to fix the issue, use a replacement for gvfs or at least
by default should make it an optional dependency.

When I noticed the same issue for lxpanel, regarding a libfm issue,
gvfs isn't involved, a developer fixed it immediately.

It depends to the project and involved developers.

There's quasi no chance to get rid of idiotic bugs and missing features
for GNOME, KDE, Xfce and all that bloated software, but there is so
much lightweight software, that is feature richer than the bloatware,
were developers are happy to care about such issues, if you report them.

Does any of the bloatware desktop environments terminal emulations
auto-wrap lines, if you resize the window? In more than ten years
that I'm using Linux, they were unable to support this. Roxterm OTOH
provides everything a terminal emulation should provide.

IOW if you dislike Unity, Gnome and Co, as I do, simply use powerful
tools that are not related to bloatware desktop environments.

Even if you wish to use Unity or Gnome, you don't need to use Nautilus.
Even if Nautilus provides what you need, but only for GNOMEish apps,
while you wish to use Nautlius with other apps, you could add an
extension script using a terminal command for the x clip board.

There never will be defaults, that fit to everybody's needs.

Regards,
Ralf

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OT: suggest policy: all GUI apps that display files/folders right-click copies full path

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 13:42:01 +0100, Colin Law wrote:
>On 31 March 2016 at 12:47, Ralf Mardorf 
>wrote:
>> ...
>> Does any of the bloatware desktop environments terminal emulations
>> auto-wrap lines, if you resize the window? In more than ten years
>> that I'm using Linux, they were unable to support this.  
>
>Do you mean in the way that gnome-terminal does?

Yes, I test installed GNOME Terminal 3.18.3 and it works for
gnome-terminal too, I anyway removed it and will stay with Roxterm for
several reasons.

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Re: Ubuntu maintainers for Ring

[Ralf Mardorf]

Hi,

I'm not a member of any Ubuntu (flavour) team, but AFAIK the best way
to make it into the officail repos of Ubuntu is to get into the official
Debian repos.

For Ubuntu packages Debian is considered to be upstream.

If you take a look at the Debian tracker, you'll see Ubuntu in the
right bottom corner, e.g. https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/xorg.

Do it yourself, to find somebody who will adopt your package most
likely doesn't harm, http://mentors.debian.net/intro-maintainers.

You also could provide a package for Ubuntu by yourself using a PPA, to
convince a maintainer, to adopt your package
https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/publish/other-forms-of-submitting-apps/ppa/.

2 Cents,
Ralf

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Re: OT: suggest policy: all GUI apps that display files/folders right-click copies full path

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 04 Apr 2016 08:51:02 +0200, Jan Claeys wrote:
>ROXTerm is just re-using the VTE terminal widget that was written as
>part of GNOME Terminal, of course, and VTE has supported this for a
>very long time.

A lot of gnome-terminal users dropped gnome-terminal and switched to
roxterm for good reasons, there are (perhaps were) several differences
between those terminal emulations.

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Re: Collaboration from ubuntuBSD project

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Fri, 8 Apr 2016 20:54:46 +0200, Jon Boden wrote:
>I'm the developer of ubuntuBSD, an Ubuntu derivative which runs the
>Ubuntu system in combination with the FreeBSD kernel (similar to
>Debian GNU/kFreeBSD).

Hi,

as a user, I'm not a developer, I would welcome an official Ubuntu
FreeBSD port :). I never was fine with Debian GNU/kFreeBSD, but apart
from the file system and inabilities regarding audio and a few other
bits and bobs, I like my real FreeBSD (not Debian), but didn't
maintain the FreeBSD install. It would be a great alternative to
Linux, if an Ubuntu FreeBSD port would be available.

2 Cents,
Ralf 


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Re: Subversion is not available now?

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 21:56:27 +, LI, NING wrote:
>Now why it says "E: Unable to locate package subversion" and "E:
>Unable to locate package libapache2-svn" by issuing command "$ apt-get
>install subversion" and "$ apt-get install libapache2-svn",
>respectively?
>
>These commands are listed on your web page
>"http://subversion.apache.org/packages.html#ubuntu";

Hi,

this isn't an official Ubuntu website, only the link to the Ubuntu
package search is a link to an official Ubuntu website.

First of all

$ apt-get install foo

can not work, because an install requires root privileges, IOW it must
be

$ sudo apt-get install foo

in addition, you need to ensure that the package index is synced, so
first you need to run

$ sudo apt-get update

it could be that you also need to upgrade your install, assumed the
software you want to install depends on a dedicated version of
something that is already installed, but outdated.

At minimum you need to run

$ sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get subversion libapache2-svn

Perhaps an upgrade is required, then you need to run

$ sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade && sudo apt-get subversion 
libapache2-svn

The appropriate mailing list for such a request isn't this list, it's

https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users

More information on how to use apt is provided by

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AptGet/Howto

Regards,
Ralf

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Re: How to recompile 'gcc-4.9-4.9.2' package with different prefix?

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 16:55:34 +0300, Valeriy Solovyov wrote:
>how I can change all --prefixes?

The configure options should be in the file debian/rules. There might
be an install file, assumed files aren't handled by the upstream build
system.

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Re: How to recompile 'gcc-4.9-4.9.2' package with different prefix?

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Wed, 20 Apr 2016 20:25:57 +0300, Valeriy Solovyov wrote:
>On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 4:06 PM, YunQiang Su wrote:
>>On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 10:18 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:  
>>> On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 16:55:34 +0300, Valeriy Solovyov wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>how I can change all --prefixes?  
>>>
>>>The configure options should be in the file debian/rules. There
>>>might be an install file, assumed files aren't handled by the
>>>upstream build system.
>>
>>Debian packages don't support so many/heavy configuration changes,
>>until you have a big patch.
>
>How I can patch sources but don't rebuild?

In general you need to edit the rules file or files and a possible
install file, usually with an editor. For some packages this is easy
to do, gcc-4.9 is a "little" bit tricky. It's not just that configure
provides --prefix=, --libdir=, --libexecdir= etc., there's not just a
single debian/rules file. The wording "big patch" could be reworded to
"you need a lot to rewrite using an editor, before you can start
compiling and building the package".

It's not helpful to top post, after the first reply bottom posted,
especially since bottom/inline posting is preferred Ubuntu mailing list
etiquette.

Regards,
Ralf

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