Documentation on Accelerated Rendering

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode]

Our new modular app was crashing badly and also rendering bizarre screens on 
Android, HQ determined that if Accelerated rendering was on when you close one 
stack and opened a second one, it was the problem. But Acceleratedrendering is 
needed for performance, so it seems to work fine,if, instead using some  global 
backscript that sets acceleratedrending to True "whenever"…  if you explicitly 
turn it on/true in e the preopenstack handler and set it to false on the close 
stack or card *before* attempting to close the stack and open another one.. 
then things work.

But now I'm having issues with some modules where I turned on 
AccelerateRendering /true.

I would like "generalize" the use cases for acceleratedRendering and move that 
call out of the stack themselves into a library that is placed into the back 
script with "start using" But… it's too vague in my head right now to make an 
intelligent addition to a global library (or multiple library  handlers if that 
makes sense) that will serve all contexts without the breakage we had before.

My question is:  where is the documentation for AcceleratedRendering

-- exactly what does it do? (don't worry, if the explanation is very 
technical.. .let me see it!)
-- when does it help
-- what contexts may there be where it could actually impede performance?

I mean more than just "It helps with scrolling groups" but a robust analysis of 
what is going on, why and when it serves it's purpose etc.

it's not in the dictionary, and the guide has no search box (the intuitive 
thing a newbie would do for an "feature" of the language/engine would be to 
search and read all instances where it appears in the documentation, as her 
homework for that issue/feature/ bit-of-syntax.

BR



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Re: Scanning for inclusions

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode]

Bill wrote:

"For me, it's a pain point because when I try to build a standalone and I don't 
have one of the widgets linked, I only get a message saying "module not found" 
or something like that. "

I think it is actually worse than that. I'm bleary eyed from pushing so many 
builds these past few days, but I could swear I actually got all the way thru 
with a success but then the app failed on my Nexus 5, when  it tried to open a 
stack that required the widget. our app is modular, the loader stack against 
which the SA is built, doesn't actually have any of the required inclusions on 
it's cd 1 which is the only card.  the init script launches a navigation panel 
that is built from our JSON and images in /assets, ie. also no inclusions 
required for display/functionality.

so far so good the app appeared to be work… then go to stack 6 which used the 
header widget  app crashed… I'm thnk I broke some script in Stack 6 (had been 
doing a bunch of refactoring)  tried again, this time from the navigation 
panel, open stack 8… which uses a switch button widget on card 4 of that stack…
 well cd 1 of stack 8 appears just fine… but then when you move to card four. 
crash.  

This is more than just a pain--you start question your sanity because if you 
set a break point on the preopenstack D, turn on remote bugging etc step 
through code you will never see anything wrong with your scripts. And it all 
works on desktop. on a pure "hunch" I finally committed everything in my 
current branch, check out another branch, took screen shot of the SA settings 
panel on the older init stack…  *then* checked out my working branch (which was 
refactored to use a leaner loader stack, and I had to redo all the SA settings) 
 and then compared the SA settings to the screen shot and slap myself on the 
head… I had forgotten that stack 6 require the Header Widget and Stack 8 
required the switch button widget. 

literally hours later, with zero progress in design/content/coding  I got back 
to work I(so much for LC productivity!  but hey, I still am holding out and 
keep my JS books on the shelf, unopened, I hope, for as long as I 
can…Fortunately I did get the discounted business license and the team in 
Scotland has been very helpful and patient. I may actually have something for 
the stores in May! 

Thanks Elanor!

Bill: "Seems it would be easy to notify the name of the in-found module." yes 
indeed.

exc

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Re: Creating apps directly on mobile devices

[Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode]

In other message threads, I have asked about a
LiveCode Features Demo for mobile platforms.

This APP/APK Demo would allows to test
interactively every LiveCode Feature in that
platform.

But this program still do not exists...

Al

On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 7:02 PM,  wrote:

> Yes!
>
> If they can have that, why couldn't we have LiveCodeMobileDev or something
> like that?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 29, 2017, at 6:51 PM, Alejandro Tejada 
> wrote:
>
> Apps like Pythonista?
> http://omz-software.com/pythonista/
>
> Al
>
> On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 6:41 PM,  wrote:
>
>> I certainly think so - not sure if Apple would balk since they don't like
>> apps to import code, but I think there are some iOS development apps made
>> for iOS, so maybe not an issue.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On Apr 29, 2017, at 5:19 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Before my Ubuntu Linux computer stopped working,
>> > I had created an Android APK with two buttons
>> > and a single field.
>> > The first button only opens any stack named
>> > "test.livecode" from Android's document
>> > folder.
>> >
>> > The second button script's is:
>> >
>> > on mouseup
>> > do field 1
>> > end mouseup
>> >
>> > Could you run an iOS app with
>> > only these two features?
>> >
>> > Al
>> > ___
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>
>
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Re: Creating apps directly on mobile devices

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Yes!

If they can have that, why couldn't we have LiveCodeMobileDev or something like 
that?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 29, 2017, at 6:51 PM, Alejandro Tejada  wrote:
> 
> Apps like Pythonista?
> http://omz-software.com/pythonista/
> 
> Al
> 
>> On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 6:41 PM,  wrote:
>> I certainly think so - not sure if Apple would balk since they don't like 
>> apps to import code, but I think there are some iOS development apps made 
>> for iOS, so maybe not an issue.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> > On Apr 29, 2017, at 5:19 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode 
>> >  wrote:
>> >
>> > Before my Ubuntu Linux computer stopped working,
>> > I had created an Android APK with two buttons
>> > and a single field.
>> > The first button only opens any stack named
>> > "test.livecode" from Android's document
>> > folder.
>> >
>> > The second button script's is:
>> >
>> > on mouseup
>> > do field 1
>> > end mouseup
>> >
>> > Could you run an iOS app with
>> > only these two features?
>> >
>> > Al
>> > ___
>> > use-livecode mailing list
>> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> > subscription preferences:
>> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
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Re: Creating apps directly on mobile devices

[Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode]

Apps like Pythonista?
http://omz-software.com/pythonista/

Al

On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 6:41 PM,  wrote:

> I certainly think so - not sure if Apple would balk since they don't like
> apps to import code, but I think there are some iOS development apps made
> for iOS, so maybe not an issue.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Apr 29, 2017, at 5:19 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Before my Ubuntu Linux computer stopped working,
> > I had created an Android APK with two buttons
> > and a single field.
> > The first button only opens any stack named
> > "test.livecode" from Android's document
> > folder.
> >
> > The second button script's is:
> >
> > on mouseup
> > do field 1
> > end mouseup
> >
> > Could you run an iOS app with
> > only these two features?
> >
> > Al
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
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Re: Creating apps directly on mobile devices

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I certainly think so - not sure if Apple would balk since they don't like apps 
to import code, but I think there are some iOS development apps made for iOS, 
so maybe not an issue.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 29, 2017, at 5:19 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Before my Ubuntu Linux computer stopped working,
> I had created an Android APK with two buttons
> and a single field.
> The first button only opens any stack named
> "test.livecode" from Android's document
> folder.
> 
> The second button script's is:
> 
> on mouseup
> do field 1
> end mouseup
> 
> Could you run an iOS app with
> only these two features?
> 
> Al
> ___
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> preferences:
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Re: Creating apps directly on mobile devices

[Colin Holgate via use-livecode]

There are other apps that do basically that, so it should be acceptable. You’re 
only allowing the user to play back local content, or to share to external 
devices. Apple don’t like it if you can download code into the app.


> On Apr 29, 2017, at 5:10 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> This is just hypothetical, I have no need to do this. I also think that apple 
> might consider a security violation, but I don't know.
> 
> Is there any reason why it would not be possible to create a stack for mobile 
> who's sole purpose is to let you write scripts on the fly?
> 
> From there,  you could create all the objects you need. You would have to 
> store the card separately, but that should not be too hard.
> 
> I understand RunRev does not want people to create a competitive development 
> environment with LC, but a barebones stack that simply executes a script that 
> you type into a field would not be competition.
> 
> Would there be any value any doing that? Like, as a way to share mini-apps 
> among users that can be shared easily with each other.


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Creating apps directly on mobile devices

[Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode]

Before my Ubuntu Linux computer stopped working,
I had created an Android APK with two buttons
and a single field.
The first button only opens any stack named
"test.livecode" from Android's document
folder.

The second button script's is:

on mouseup
 do field 1
end mouseup

Could you run an iOS app with
only these two features?

Al
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Creating apps directly on mobile devices

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

This is just hypothetical, I have no need to do this. I also think that apple 
might consider a security violation, but I don't know.

Is there any reason why it would not be possible to create a stack for mobile 
who's sole purpose is to let you write scripts on the fly?

>From there,  you could create all the objects you need. You would have to 
>store the card separately, but that should not be too hard.

I understand RunRev does not want people to create a competitive development 
environment with LC, but a barebones stack that simply executes a script that 
you type into a field would not be competition.

Would there be any value any doing that? Like, as a way to share mini-apps 
among users that can be shared easily with each other.


Sent from my iPhone
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Swiping between cards - metaphor end-of-the-road?

[Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode]

Hi Richard, :D

Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Your headache won't end
> until your RAM chips arrive. :)\

Thankfully, a small cup of coffee with half lemon
reduced the headache to a minimum of discomfort.
It's there, the headache is still there but in a
second or third plane... :D

> I like DIY solutions that don't require waiting for
> the engine team, but I wonder how smoothly performant
> this would feel in actual use?
> On modern high-end phones those bitmaps will be pretty big.

Good point, but the engine team would do something
very similar but at a lower level. Right?

Does LiveCode always creates 32 bit images,
{24 bit for RGB image plus 8 bits for Alpha channel]
even when you are displaying a 4 bit PNG?
If these images had a lower bit count (like 4 or 8)
memory requirements were much lower. Much lower.
Look these PNGs displayed at 1, 2, 4, 8 and 32 bits.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:4_bit.png

By the way, now that I think about it, ink effects
adds a nice touch for displaying the previous
and next card images :)

About big images in mobile devices, previously I though
that in iOS and Android every current app could use
all resources of the device (all memory, all processors)
while other running apps started to "sleep" until
the user starts using them again.

Al
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Re: Will LiveCode run an x86 android device?

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

J. Landman Gay wrote:
> On 4/29/17 1:25 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>>> If that is so why can LiveCode make standalones that run on ARM
>>> Android?
>>
>> But can you run an Android APK made with LiveCode on an ARM Linux OS?
>
> Seems to me, Richmond's question is the same as "Why can't we run a
> Mac app on Windows? They both use Intel processors."

We see a variant of that question almost every week in the Ubuntu forums. :)

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Will LiveCode run an x86 android device?

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

On 4/29/17 1:25 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

If that is so why can LiveCode make standalones that run on ARM
Android?


But can you run an Android APK made with LiveCode on an ARM Linux OS?


Seems to me, Richmond's question is the same as "Why can't we run a Mac 
app on Windows? They both use Intel processors."


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Swiping between cards - metaphor end-of-the-road?

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Alejandro Tejada wrote:

> Check this script. This code would be a starting point for a script
> that implement this swiping card feature. Maybe I will try to code it
> myself when my headache ends.

Your headache won't end until your RAM chips arrive. :)\


> After we have 3 images (from previous, current and next card,) the
> script of top image (image of current card) just have to change
> the layer of previous and next card images, depending of movement
> direction:
>
> a) moving the image to left or down or diagonally to the left
> will show the image of next card
>
> b) moving the image to right or up or diagonally to the right
> will show the image of next card
>
> In countries that reads from right to left, like Japan,
> these movements would be reversed.
>
> on mouseup
>lock screen
>
>put the rect of this cd into q
>export snapshot from rect q of this cd to myVar as PNG
>create img
>set the text of it to myVar
>
>go prev -- previous card
> put the rect of this cd into q
> export snapshot from rect q of this cd to myVar as PNG
> go back -- we return to the card where we started
>create img
>set the text of it to myVar
>
>
>go next
>put the rect of this cd into q
>export snapshot from rect q of this cd to myVar as PNG
>go back
>create img
>set the text of it to myVar
>
>put the number of images of this card into w
>put the number of controls of this card into r
>
>set the layer of img (w-2) of this card to r
>-- image of current card is moved to top layer
>
>unlock screen
> end mouseup

I like DIY solutions that don't require waiting for the engine team, but 
I wonder how smoothly performant this would feel in actual use?


On modern high-end phones those bitmaps will be pretty big.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Swiping between cards - metaphor end-of-the-road?

[Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode]

Hi All,

Check this script. This code would be a starting point for a script that
implement this swiping card feature. Maybe I will try to code it myself
when my headache ends.

After we have 3 images (from previous, current and next card,) the script
of top image (image of current card) just have to change the layer of
previous and next card images, depending of movement direction:

a) moving the image to left or down or diagonally to the left
will show the image of next card

b) moving the image to right or up or diagonally to the right
will show the image of next card

In countries that reads from right to left, like Japan,
these movements would be reversed.

on mouseup
   lock screen

   put the rect of this cd into q
   export snapshot from rect q of this cd to myVar as PNG
   create img
   set the text of it to myVar

   go prev -- previous card
put the rect of this cd into q
export snapshot from rect q of this cd to myVar as PNG
go back -- we return to the card where we started
   create img
   set the text of it to myVar


   go next
   put the rect of this cd into q
   export snapshot from rect q of this cd to myVar as PNG
   go back
   create img
   set the text of it to myVar

   put the number of images of this card into w
   put the number of controls of this card into r

   set the layer of img (w-2) of this card to r
   -- image of current card is moved to top layer

   unlock screen
end mouseup

Al
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Re: Will LiveCode run an x86 android device?

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> On 4/29/17 6:13 pm, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>> So while we can build for a very wide range of Linux distros,
>> Android is Linux-based (as in, it uses the kernel and a handful
>> of other packages) but is not a Linux distro per se.
>>
>> I don't believe Android includes what the LC engine expects to find
>> in order to run.
>
> If that is so why can LiveCode make standalones that run on ARM
> Android?

But can you run an Android APK made with LiveCode on an ARM Linux OS?

LC-built APKs expect things the Android OS packages provide.

Similarly, you can use the Raspberry Pi build of LC to deploy to ARM 
devices running Linux ARM distros packaged for that hardware, since that 
LC engine is compiled for the packages expected on Raspian and 
Raspian-like systems (e.g. Debian ARM, Ubuntu Core ARM, etc.).


The CPU architecture is only part of a complete breakfast.  Delivering 
an application to that CPU will require integration with the OS it will 
run under.




As much as I enjoy having my Rpi2 and RPi3, I've only found one 
practical use for either (in progress; will probably write an article 
about it for MagPi when it's done).


For IoT they're wonderful, but for anything that needs a GUI even the 
RPi3 isn't very satisfying for someone used to ordinary desktop 
performance.  And if a 100 Gb Ethernet port weren't bottleneck enough, 
sharing the controller with the USB 2 (yes, 2) port doesn't help.


As wonderful as it is to get a mobo for US$35, by the time you get a 
case, power supply, MicroSD card of reasonable size, and any other 
add-ons you might need, you're up to about $80.


Still not bad, but for just twice the price you can get more than 4 
times the computing with one of the Atom- or Celeron-powered NUCs or 
Compute Sticks.


And with a NUC or stick you get the rest of the full x86 ecosystem, 
which includes being able to run the latest and greatest LC IDE on it 
quite comfortably.


There's a place for RPi, but there are more places for NUCs and sticks. 
And with so many knock-offs available, NUC and stick options below $200 
abound.




--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: sims' spotty dog

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> Why has nothing been done about this?

A less presumptuous question might have been:

"What has been done about this?"

...for which the answer would be that I wrote Sims about it the other 
day, and he replied to let me know he's written Heather about it.


The precise nature of the problem is unclear to me at this time, given 
how frequently mail headers are forged, making it possible that they're 
not coming from his account at all.


May take them a bit longer to sort out, but they're working on it.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Will LiveCode run an x86 android device?

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

On 4/29/17 6:13 pm, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> I wasn't suggesting a version of the development IDE for x86 Android 
. . .

>
> On 4/29/17 12:05 am, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>> On 4/28/17 3:03 PM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Isn't Android a type of Linux?
>>>
>>> Arguably a Linux standalone should work better on x86 Android devices
>>> . . .
>>>
>>> So; here's LiveCode's next headache:
>>>
>>> How to build a Linux standalone which can be installed on an x86 
Android

>>> device.
>>
>> Mobile limitations are fairly severe, and most of the IDE tools
>> wouldn't work.
>
> That's not what I meant: I meant the ability to hive off standalones
> that would run natively
> on x86 Android.

There's more to Linux than the kernel.

The LC engine for Linux has fewer dependencies than most (it amazes me 
just how deeply reliant some apps are on very specific system 
configurations), but it does expect a reasonable baseline of GDK and 
other elements found on nearly all Linux desktop systems, which I 
don't believe are part of Android.


So while we can build for a very wide range of Linux distros, Android 
is Linux-based (as in, it uses the kernel and a handful of other 
packages) but is not a Linux distro per se.


I don't believe Android includes what the LC engine expects to find in 
order to run.


If that is so why can LiveCode make standalones that run on ARM Android?




I had thought one of the reasons Android uses the Dalvik and ART VMs 
is because they're VMs, separating the APIs from processor architectures.


If so, then the LC engine for Android is bytecode rather than machine 
code, and as such should run on either processor architecture, no?





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sims' spotty dog

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

Why has nothing been done about this?

Richmond.
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Re: Stupid Q No 999: mergeBLE

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

Presumably (?) "unsupported" in
field "central state" means
"Richmond's up a gum tree" until he lays
his sweaty paws on something that runs Mac OS 10.9 or later.

Richmond.

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Re: Will LiveCode run an x86 android device?

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> I wasn't suggesting a version of the development IDE for x86 Android 
. . .

>
> On 4/29/17 12:05 am, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>> On 4/28/17 3:03 PM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Isn't Android a type of Linux?
>>>
>>> Arguably a Linux standalone should work better on x86 Android devices
>>> . . .
>>>
>>> So; here's LiveCode's next headache:
>>>
>>> How to build a Linux standalone which can be installed on an x86 
Android

>>> device.
>>
>> Mobile limitations are fairly severe, and most of the IDE tools
>> wouldn't work.
>
> That's not what I meant: I meant the ability to hive off standalones
> that would run natively
> on x86 Android.

There's more to Linux than the kernel.

The LC engine for Linux has fewer dependencies than most (it amazes me 
just how deeply reliant some apps are on very specific system 
configurations), but it does expect a reasonable baseline of GDK and 
other elements found on nearly all Linux desktop systems, which I don't 
believe are part of Android.


So while we can build for a very wide range of Linux distros, Android is 
Linux-based (as in, it uses the kernel and a handful of other packages) 
but is not a Linux distro per se.


I don't believe Android includes what the LC engine expects to find in 
order to run.



I had thought one of the reasons Android uses the Dalvik and ART VMs is 
because they're VMs, separating the APIs from processor architectures.


If so, then the LC engine for Android is bytecode rather than machine 
code, and as such should run on either processor architecture, no?


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Will LiveCode run an x86 android device?

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

I wasn't suggesting a version of the development IDE for x86 Android . . .

On 4/29/17 12:05 am, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:

On 4/28/17 3:03 PM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote:

Isn't Android a type of Linux?

Arguably a Linux standalone should work better on x86 Android devices 
. . .


So; here's LiveCode's next headache:

How to build a Linux standalone which can be installed on an x86 Android
device.


Mobile limitations are fairly severe, and most of the IDE tools 
wouldn't work.


That's not what I meant: I meant the ability to hive off standalones 
that would run natively

on x86 Android.

Just the fact that only one window at a time can be open would remove 
the ability to display palettes, tools, plugins, app and project 
browsers, etc. Also, no floating script editor.


Then imagine trying trying to type scripts on a 5-inch phone keyboard.

That's just a start of the list of things that can't be done currently 
on mobile.




Richmond.
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